Hi all,
Just thought I could end some of this speculation going on about WWW.
The following is not official information from WWW....just the story
as I know it. I am the Assistant Manager of one of the stores. Here
is what happened...
The parent company of WWW was formerly Trendlines. Most everyone knows
this. Since woodworking was mainly a winter type business, Trendlines
wanted to branch out into something that could generate sales in the
summertime. For this reason, Trendlines bought the Golf Day company.
In addititon, Trendlines also owned the Post Tool chain of tool
stores. As most folks know, both Golf Day and Post Tools went under.
WWW did not.
As a result, the WWW stores chain ended up shouldering the burden of
paying back the money from the bankruptcy caused by those 2 other
chains. WWW itself was doing just fine prior to that debacle. At
some point, the Trendlines name was gone and the corporation became
simply, Woodworkers Warehouse. The Trendlines name was gone.
Over the past few years, WWW has repaid many millions of dollars of
the amount owed and had only 2 million to go. This year, the company
would have turned a small profit actually until the latest debacle
struck.
You see, without naming same, a certain bank was providing the
financing for store operations. This bank was recently bought out and
taken over by another, bigger bank. WWW had a committment from the
smaller bank for continued financing, but the takeover bank would not
honor that agreement. So now, WWW was courting several other
financial institutions for the needed financing. However, it took too
long and WWW ended up in default because of the lack of financing.
This meant they had to file for chapter 11, reorganization.
In court it was decided that WWW had to put the inventory up for
auction to repay creditors. Great American was the high bidder and
they now own all the inventory in all 94 WWW stores.
There is now a going out of business sale going on at all 94 WWW
stores. Everything in the stores is now being sold at 10% off. The
current sale flyer's ending date is the 10th of December. Prices in
this flyer are being honored. And if an item is on sale, the 10% will
be taken off the sale price. There will be no further rain checks,
special orders, store-to store transfers, or anything like that.
All WWW stores will remain open until all the inventory in that store
is sold. Stuff that doesn't sell right away will probably be further
reduced in the near future. Estimates range anywhere from 6 - 8 weeks
for the completion of this process. But if there's something you want
to obtain, ya better get it while the getting is good. It now becomes
a crap shoot. You'll have to decide whether or not to buy it now at
10% off or wait till your item gets reduced even further. The catch
is...the item you want may be gone if you wait too long. Not a sales
pitch...just a fact of these going out of business sales.
Cash or major credit card only. No checks.
WWW does not owe Delta 20 million dollars as someone else said. But
without solid financing in place, and the default because of that lack
of financing, WWW was forced into this action.
And finally, I am pretty sad about this. I really enjoyed my job at
WWW. While I obviously cannot speak for any of the other stores, ours
was a pretty damn good one. Those of us who work there were all
woodworkers and we had a wealth of knowledge. We had just started
woodworking classes back in August which I was teaching and this was
going very well. In fact, we were very close to finishing a pretty
well-equipped woodworking shop right in the store for teaching the
classes. I realize that some folks have had problems with other WWW
stores with unknowledgable staff, no stock, etc. But ours was very
well run and we bent over backwards to get what the customer wanted.
Now there will be 600 or so people out of work,...me included. :o(
Terry
Ya know, one problem with working at a home depot is that most only want a
bunch of part timers. Usually 20 to 25 hours a week or less. No benefits,
and not much chance to advance. A close friend started when the local store
opened, got in under the door as a full timer, but they kept pushing him to
work less hours. They look for people that are looking to supplement their
income.
Dave
"Terry Sumner" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hi all,
>
> Just thought I could end some of this speculation going on about WWW.
> The following is not official information from WWW....just the story
> as I know it. I am the Assistant Manager of one of the stores. Here
> is what happened...
>
> The parent company of WWW was formerly Trendlines. Most everyone knows
> this. Since woodworking was mainly a winter type business, Trendlines
> wanted to branch out into something that could generate sales in the
> summertime. For this reason, Trendlines bought the Golf Day company.
> In addititon, Trendlines also owned the Post Tool chain of tool
> stores. As most folks know, both Golf Day and Post Tools went under.
> WWW did not.
>
> As a result, the WWW stores chain ended up shouldering the burden of
> paying back the money from the bankruptcy caused by those 2 other
> chains. WWW itself was doing just fine prior to that debacle. At
> some point, the Trendlines name was gone and the corporation became
> simply, Woodworkers Warehouse. The Trendlines name was gone.
>
> Over the past few years, WWW has repaid many millions of dollars of
> the amount owed and had only 2 million to go. This year, the company
> would have turned a small profit actually until the latest debacle
> struck.
>
> You see, without naming same, a certain bank was providing the
> financing for store operations. This bank was recently bought out and
> taken over by another, bigger bank. WWW had a committment from the
> smaller bank for continued financing, but the takeover bank would not
> honor that agreement. So now, WWW was courting several other
> financial institutions for the needed financing. However, it took too
> long and WWW ended up in default because of the lack of financing.
> This meant they had to file for chapter 11, reorganization.
>
> In court it was decided that WWW had to put the inventory up for
> auction to repay creditors. Great American was the high bidder and
> they now own all the inventory in all 94 WWW stores.
>
> There is now a going out of business sale going on at all 94 WWW
> stores. Everything in the stores is now being sold at 10% off. The
> current sale flyer's ending date is the 10th of December. Prices in
> this flyer are being honored. And if an item is on sale, the 10% will
> be taken off the sale price. There will be no further rain checks,
> special orders, store-to store transfers, or anything like that.
>
> All WWW stores will remain open until all the inventory in that store
> is sold. Stuff that doesn't sell right away will probably be further
> reduced in the near future. Estimates range anywhere from 6 - 8 weeks
> for the completion of this process. But if there's something you want
> to obtain, ya better get it while the getting is good. It now becomes
> a crap shoot. You'll have to decide whether or not to buy it now at
> 10% off or wait till your item gets reduced even further. The catch
> is...the item you want may be gone if you wait too long. Not a sales
> pitch...just a fact of these going out of business sales.
>
> Cash or major credit card only. No checks.
>
> WWW does not owe Delta 20 million dollars as someone else said. But
> without solid financing in place, and the default because of that lack
> of financing, WWW was forced into this action.
>
> And finally, I am pretty sad about this. I really enjoyed my job at
> WWW. While I obviously cannot speak for any of the other stores, ours
> was a pretty damn good one. Those of us who work there were all
> woodworkers and we had a wealth of knowledge. We had just started
> woodworking classes back in August which I was teaching and this was
> going very well. In fact, we were very close to finishing a pretty
> well-equipped woodworking shop right in the store for teaching the
> classes. I realize that some folks have had problems with other WWW
> stores with unknowledgable staff, no stock, etc. But ours was very
> well run and we bent over backwards to get what the customer wanted.
>
> Now there will be 600 or so people out of work,...me included. :o(
>
> Terry
>
>
Terry Summer writes:
>
>WWW does not owe Delta 20 million dollars as someone else said. But
>without solid financing in place, and the default because of that lack
>of financing, WWW was forced into this action.
>
>And finally, I am pretty sad about this. I really enjoyed my job at
>WWW. While I obviously cannot speak for any of the other stores, ours
>was a pretty damn good one. Those of us who work there were all
>woodworkers and we had a wealth of knowledge. We had just started
>woodworking classes back in August which I was teaching and this was
>going very well. In fact, we were very close to finishing a pretty
>well-equipped woodworking shop right in the store for teaching the
>classes. I realize that some folks have had problems with other WWW
>stores with unknowledgable staff, no stock, etc. But ours was very
>well run and we bent over backwards to get what the customer wanted.
>
>Now there will be 600 or so people out of work,...me included. :o(
>
Sorry about that, but join the crowd.
Did any of you guys working that particular store think about getting financing
and setting up on your own, renaming the location once WWW is gone, and doing
your own thing? From what you say, the talent for woodworking and retail sales
is there. Obviously, you'd need some buyers (good product managers in this
field are hard to come by, but there should be some available with WWW out of
business), and you'd need some financing, but that's what banks are for. A
semi-decent business plan should be relatively simple to work up. Get an
agreement among those of you who want an ownership position, take the business
plan to a GOOD bank, and forget working for someone else.
AFAICT, woodworking retailing is a good spot to be and will remain so for at
least a decade. I know of one former product manager who did the above and who
is now doing quite well, from all I hear.
If I were a bit younger, I'd take a shot at it myself.
What I'd really like to be young enough to do is talk Rob Lee out of Lee
Valley's first U.S. franchise. I guess it would be LV's first franchise,
period. I know exactly where I'd put it, and I can already come up with half a
dozen names for assistant managers.
Charlie Self
"I have one yardstick by which I test every major problem-and that yardstick
is: Is it good for America?" Dwight D. Eisenhower
Terry Sumner wrote:
> Hi all,
> Just thought I could end some of this speculation going on about WWW.
> The following is not official information from WWW....just the story
> as I know it. I am the Assistant Manager of one of the stores. Here
> is what happened...
>
> The parent company of WWW was formerly Trendlines. Most everyone knows
> this. Since woodworking was mainly a winter type business, Trendlines
> wanted to branch out into something that could generate sales in the
> summertime. For this reason, Trendlines bought the Golf Day company.
> In addititon, Trendlines also owned the Post Tool chain of tool
> stores. As most folks know, both Golf Day and Post Tools went under.
> WWW did not.
>
> As a result, the WWW stores chain ended up shouldering the burden of
> paying back the money from the bankruptcy caused by those 2 other
> chains. WWW itself was doing just fine prior to that debacle. At
> some point, the Trendlines name was gone and the corporation became
> simply, Woodworkers Warehouse. The Trendlines name was gone.
>
> Over the past few years, WWW has repaid many millions of dollars of
> the amount owed and had only 2 million to go. This year, the company
> would have turned a small profit actually until the latest debacle
> struck.
>
> You see, without naming same, a certain bank was providing the
> financing for store operations. This bank was recently bought out and
> taken over by another, bigger bank. WWW had a committment from the
> smaller bank for continued financing, but the takeover bank would not
> honor that agreement. So now, WWW was courting several other
> financial institutions for the needed financing. However, it took too
> long and WWW ended up in default because of the lack of financing.
> This meant they had to file for chapter 11, reorganization.
>
> In court it was decided that WWW had to put the inventory up for
> auction to repay creditors. Great American was the high bidder and
> they now own all the inventory in all 94 WWW stores.
>
> There is now a going out of business sale going on at all 94 WWW
> stores. Everything in the stores is now being sold at 10% off. The
> current sale flyer's ending date is the 10th of December. Prices in
> this flyer are being honored. And if an item is on sale, the 10% will
> be taken off the sale price. There will be no further rain checks,
> special orders, store-to store transfers, or anything like that.
>
> All WWW stores will remain open until all the inventory in that store
> is sold. Stuff that doesn't sell right away will probably be further
> reduced in the near future. Estimates range anywhere from 6 - 8 weeks
> for the completion of this process. But if there's something you want
> to obtain, ya better get it while the getting is good. It now becomes
> a crap shoot. You'll have to decide whether or not to buy it now at
> 10% off or wait till your item gets reduced even further. The catch
> is...the item you want may be gone if you wait too long. Not a sales
> pitch...just a fact of these going out of business sales.
>
> Cash or major credit card only. No checks.
>
> WWW does not owe Delta 20 million dollars as someone else said. But
> without solid financing in place, and the default because of that lack
> of financing, WWW was forced into this action.
>
> And finally, I am pretty sad about this. I really enjoyed my job at
> WWW. While I obviously cannot speak for any of the other stores, ours
> was a pretty damn good one. Those of us who work there were all
> woodworkers and we had a wealth of knowledge. We had just started
> woodworking classes back in August which I was teaching and this was
> going very well. In fact, we were very close to finishing a pretty
> well-equipped woodworking shop right in the store for teaching the
> classes. I realize that some folks have had problems with other WWW
> stores with unknowledgable staff, no stock, etc. But ours was very
> well run and we bent over backwards to get what the customer wanted.
>
> Now there will be 600 or so people out of work,...me included. :o(
>
> Terry
That really sucks. Ask me why Bankers and Stock Brokers are right up
there with Personal Injury Lawyers on my list. I'm sorry about you
getting caught in the lurch, From what I've seen, HD or Lowe's could use
a good manager, think about it. If they had someone who knew the
business you'd be doing all of us a good turn.
Dave in Fairfax
--
reply-to doesn't work
use:
daveldr at att dot net
> Terry Sumner <[email protected]> wrote:
>And I don't know for absolute sure, but I wouldn't think the pay for a
>sales associate there would be very high.
>Plus, it's across the
>state line into Rhode Island and I don't know just yet what that would
>mean as far as a state income tax goes. RI has one and CT has one. I
>wonder if I'd have to pay in both states or what!
I doubt that you would pay taxes in both places, but a phone call to the
tax div of each state would answer the question. As for the rate for
sales help, that's why I suggested starting with the higher jobs.
You've been in the industry, the loss of job has nothing to do with you
personally and good mgmt is hard to find.
Dave in Fairfax
--
reply-to doesn't work
use:
daveldr at att dot net
Dave notes:
>>And I don't know for absolute sure, but I wouldn't think the pay for a
>>sales associate there would be very high.
>>Plus, it's across the
>>state line into Rhode Island and I don't know just yet what that would
>>mean as far as a state income tax goes. RI has one and CT has one. I
>>wonder if I'd have to pay in both states or what!
>
>I doubt that you would pay taxes in both places, but a phone call to the
>tax div of each state would answer the question. As for the rate for
>sales help, that's why I suggested starting with the higher jobs.
>You've been in the industry, the loss of job has nothing to do with you
>personally and good mgmt is hard to find.
The following might have some info: I used it to check possible locales when
applying for jobs after my WCS debacle.
http://www.statetaxcentral.com/Multistate/
Charlie Self
"In the final choice a soldier's pack is not so heavy as a prisoner's chains."
Dwight D. Eisenhower
>>
>> WWW does not owe Delta 20 million dollars as someone else said. But
>> without solid financing in place, and the default because of that lack
>> of financing, WWW was forced into this action.
>>
>
>Hmmm... the local Delta rep didn't dispute that WWW owes Delta $20 Million
>when a rep from a local industrial supply company told me that in in the
>Delta rep's presence last March. His reaction, verbal and non-verbal,
>supported the statement as he was pushing me to buy from that supplier
>rather than WWW. I did order from that vendor but at the time of deliver
>they wanted to tack another $125, on top of the $50 originally charged, for
>delivery. WWW got that sale.
>
>Makes one wonder what the real story is... the Delta rep certainly did
>nothing to refute it.
>
>John
>
Well...I suppose it could be possible...but I just can't see how.
That would be one HELL of a lot of Delta tools. And even with 94
stores, it just doesn't seem to me that we could have possibly had
THAT much inventory in just Delta equipment. I mean...at
least in our store, we didn't have all that much Delta stuff in there.
But I must admit...I could have not been told the whole truth???
Oh wait...the execs never tell us anything but the truth...right?
(snicker)
I know one thing...those 12 -20 folks who were regularly coming to the
free woodworking classes I was giving are sure gonna miss our store
too....
Terry
"Terry Sumner" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hi all,
>
> Just thought I could end some of this speculation going on about WWW.
> The following is not official information from WWW....just the story
> as I know it. I am the Assistant Manager of one of the stores. Here
> is what happened...
....
>
> WWW does not owe Delta 20 million dollars as someone else said. But
> without solid financing in place, and the default because of that lack
> of financing, WWW was forced into this action.
>
Hmmm... the local Delta rep didn't dispute that WWW owes Delta $20 Million
when a rep from a local industrial supply company told me that in in the
Delta rep's presence last March. His reaction, verbal and non-verbal,
supported the statement as he was pushing me to buy from that supplier
rather than WWW. I did order from that vendor but at the time of deliver
they wanted to tack another $125, on top of the $50 originally charged, for
delivery. WWW got that sale.
Makes one wonder what the real story is... the Delta rep certainly did
nothing to refute it.
John
John Grossbohlin notes:
>Makes one wonder what the real story is... the Delta rep certainly did
>nothing to refute it.
Why would a sales rep be privy to confidential financial info?
Charlie Self
"I have one yardstick by which I test every major problem-and that yardstick
is: Is it good for America?" Dwight D. Eisenhower
"Charlie Self" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> John Grossbohlin notes:
>
> >Makes one wonder what the real story is... the Delta rep certainly did
> >nothing to refute it.
>
> Why would a sales rep be privy to confidential financial info?
It's hard to imagine a company sales rep not picking up on that kind of
information... problem accounts are problem accounts and word gets around.
Sales reps talk... Something like this is pretty hard to keep secret
considering that A/R, IS, computer operators, sales managers, service reps,
and sales people all have their hands on information at points in time.
Also, anyone in proximity to the A/R or sales people who work collections
would hear it even if they weren't in the formal information chain. I see
and hear this kind of stuff pretty much every day and have for years--four
different industries--as getting paid is high on any organization's list of
important things.
John
Sorry to hear about your job situation.
Good luck in your job search. Someone with your knowledge should be able to
find a good job.
Thanks for the info.
Rob
"Terry Sumner" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hi all,
>
> Just thought I could end some of this speculation going on about WWW.
> The following is not official information from WWW....just the story
> as I know it. I am the Assistant Manager of one of the stores. Here
> is what happened...
>
> The parent company of WWW was formerly Trendlines. Most everyone knows
> this. Since woodworking was mainly a winter type business, Trendlines
> wanted to branch out into something that could generate sales in the
> summertime. For this reason, Trendlines bought the Golf Day company.
> In addititon, Trendlines also owned the Post Tool chain of tool
> stores. As most folks know, both Golf Day and Post Tools went under.
> WWW did not.
>
> As a result, the WWW stores chain ended up shouldering the burden of
> paying back the money from the bankruptcy caused by those 2 other
> chains. WWW itself was doing just fine prior to that debacle. At
> some point, the Trendlines name was gone and the corporation became
> simply, Woodworkers Warehouse. The Trendlines name was gone.
>
> Over the past few years, WWW has repaid many millions of dollars of
> the amount owed and had only 2 million to go. This year, the company
> would have turned a small profit actually until the latest debacle
> struck.
>
> You see, without naming same, a certain bank was providing the
> financing for store operations. This bank was recently bought out and
> taken over by another, bigger bank. WWW had a committment from the
> smaller bank for continued financing, but the takeover bank would not
> honor that agreement. So now, WWW was courting several other
> financial institutions for the needed financing. However, it took too
> long and WWW ended up in default because of the lack of financing.
> This meant they had to file for chapter 11, reorganization.
>
> In court it was decided that WWW had to put the inventory up for
> auction to repay creditors. Great American was the high bidder and
> they now own all the inventory in all 94 WWW stores.
>
> There is now a going out of business sale going on at all 94 WWW
> stores. Everything in the stores is now being sold at 10% off. The
> current sale flyer's ending date is the 10th of December. Prices in
> this flyer are being honored. And if an item is on sale, the 10% will
> be taken off the sale price. There will be no further rain checks,
> special orders, store-to store transfers, or anything like that.
>
> All WWW stores will remain open until all the inventory in that store
> is sold. Stuff that doesn't sell right away will probably be further
> reduced in the near future. Estimates range anywhere from 6 - 8 weeks
> for the completion of this process. But if there's something you want
> to obtain, ya better get it while the getting is good. It now becomes
> a crap shoot. You'll have to decide whether or not to buy it now at
> 10% off or wait till your item gets reduced even further. The catch
> is...the item you want may be gone if you wait too long. Not a sales
> pitch...just a fact of these going out of business sales.
>
> Cash or major credit card only. No checks.
>
> WWW does not owe Delta 20 million dollars as someone else said. But
> without solid financing in place, and the default because of that lack
> of financing, WWW was forced into this action.
>
> And finally, I am pretty sad about this. I really enjoyed my job at
> WWW. While I obviously cannot speak for any of the other stores, ours
> was a pretty damn good one. Those of us who work there were all
> woodworkers and we had a wealth of knowledge. We had just started
> woodworking classes back in August which I was teaching and this was
> going very well. In fact, we were very close to finishing a pretty
> well-equipped woodworking shop right in the store for teaching the
> classes. I realize that some folks have had problems with other WWW
> stores with unknowledgable staff, no stock, etc. But ours was very
> well run and we bent over backwards to get what the customer wanted.
>
> Now there will be 600 or so people out of work,...me included. :o(
>
> Terry
>
>
"Scott" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> EL <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
>
> Finally, I have gift certificate, but none of the stores in NH seem to
> be open still to honor them. I saw a post that stated the AG of
> NY,CT,MA,NH all stating that the GC should be honored.
>
> Does anyone know which stores are still open where I can go to spend
> $$$?
Kingston, NY is still open.
The store in Syracuse, NY just off Erie Blvd. is still open until the 8th.
Ph (315)449-9663 and ask for Chris (Mgr.). Another store in Johnson City,
NY (Westover actually) is open also Ph(607) 729-8665. You may be able to
arrange the sale over the phone and have them hold the item for pickup. I
see both stores have an area blocked off that have Sold tags on items
awaiting pickup.
Bob S.
"Scott" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> EL <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> > Terry,
> >
> > In looking through some of WWW's public filings it looks like WWW may
> > have been getting healthier but the pivotal event seems to be that shown
> > in their October 27, 2003 Form 8-K which says that their EBITDA target
> > was not achieved. Apparently this triggered the default that was called
> > by the Agent (Bank of America) on behalf of the syndicate (Bank of
> > America, Foothil Capital and Transamerica.)
> >
> > Portion of text contained in 10/27/03 8-K:
> > "As previously reported, Woodworkers Warehouse, Inc. (the ?Company?) did
> > not comply with the second-quarter EBITDA covenant contained in the Loan
> > and Security Agreement (the ?Loan Agreement?) by and among the Company,
> > Bank of America, N.A., Foothill Capital Corporation and Transamerica
> > Business Capital Corporation (the ?Lenders?). As a result, an event of
> > default exists under the Loan Agreement."
> >
> > I'm personally going to miss WWW as they were the only good source near
> > me in Maine.
> >
> > Boden
> >
> > Terry Sumner wrote:
> >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > Just thought I could end some of this speculation going on about WWW.
> > > The following is not official information from WWW....just the story
> > > as I know it. I am the Assistant Manager of one of the stores. Here
> > > is what happened...
>
> Terry,
>
> Thank you for your post. I am sorry to hear that you will/have lost
> your job. You sound like a great employee. Because of the holidays
> and such, I just learned about the closing of the stores today.
>
> Boden,
>
> I appreciate the post too, since it better explains the rationale for
> the quick and decisive decision. I am not happy about it, but at
> least I understand why.
>
> WWW was a great store that I will greatly miss. HD/Lowes don't
> compare. I encourage you to consider the start up idea discussed
> here, as I am sure you will have loyal customers.
>
> Finally, I have gift certificate, but none of the stores in NH seem to
> be open still to honor them. I saw a post that stated the AG of
> NY,CT,MA,NH all stating that the GC should be honored.
>
> Does anyone know which stores are still open where I can go to spend
> $$$?
>
> Thanks and best of luck Terry!
>
> Scott
In article <[email protected]>,
Terry Sumner <[email protected]> wrote:
> ...
>There is a fairly new Woodcraft store where I had might be able to go
>to work at, but it's 34 miles from my home and in another state. My
>only vehicle is a Ford F250 4WD that only gets around 12 mpg. So that
>alone would cost quite a bit just to get there and back every day.
That's just a *temporary* problem. If you can get a worthwhile job,
you can then buy another, more economical, vehicle. So first look at
the job!
>And I don't know for absolute sure, but I wouldn't think the pay for a
>sales associate there would be very high.
If you don't know, that's a good reason to go over there and find out.
Also, why not try for assistant manager or head of training, or
something like that?
>Plus, it's across the
>state line into Rhode Island and I don't know just yet what that would
>mean as far as a state income tax goes. RI has one and CT has one. I
>wonder if I'd have to pay in both states or what!
This is another thing you need to find out, and there can be minor
problems, but a *lot* of people commute across state lines and paying
"both" isn't what happens.
--
--henry schaffer
[email protected]
EL <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Terry,
>
> In looking through some of WWW's public filings it looks like WWW may
> have been getting healthier but the pivotal event seems to be that shown
> in their October 27, 2003 Form 8-K which says that their EBITDA target
> was not achieved. Apparently this triggered the default that was called
> by the Agent (Bank of America) on behalf of the syndicate (Bank of
> America, Foothil Capital and Transamerica.)
>
> Portion of text contained in 10/27/03 8-K:
> "As previously reported, Woodworkers Warehouse, Inc. (the ?Company?) did
> not comply with the second-quarter EBITDA covenant contained in the Loan
> and Security Agreement (the ?Loan Agreement?) by and among the Company,
> Bank of America, N.A., Foothill Capital Corporation and Transamerica
> Business Capital Corporation (the ?Lenders?). As a result, an event of
> default exists under the Loan Agreement."
>
> I'm personally going to miss WWW as they were the only good source near
> me in Maine.
>
> Boden
>
> Terry Sumner wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Just thought I could end some of this speculation going on about WWW.
> > The following is not official information from WWW....just the story
> > as I know it. I am the Assistant Manager of one of the stores. Here
> > is what happened...
Terry,
Thank you for your post. I am sorry to hear that you will/have lost
your job. You sound like a great employee. Because of the holidays
and such, I just learned about the closing of the stores today.
Boden,
I appreciate the post too, since it better explains the rationale for
the quick and decisive decision. I am not happy about it, but at
least I understand why.
WWW was a great store that I will greatly miss. HD/Lowes don't
compare. I encourage you to consider the start up idea discussed
here, as I am sure you will have loyal customers.
Finally, I have gift certificate, but none of the stores in NH seem to
be open still to honor them. I saw a post that stated the AG of
NY,CT,MA,NH all stating that the GC should be honored.
Does anyone know which stores are still open where I can go to spend
$$$?
Thanks and best of luck Terry!
Scott
On Mon, 08 Dec 2003 12:29:31 GMT, Michael Baglio
<mbaglio<NOSPAM>@nc.rr.com> wrote:
>On Mon, 08 Dec 2003 06:27:32 -0500, Terry Sumner <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>
>>There is a fairly new Woodcraft store where I had might be able to go
>>to work at, but it's 34 miles from my home and in another state. My
>>only vehicle is a Ford F250 4WD that only gets around 12 mpg. So that
>>alone would cost quite a bit just to get there and back every day.
>snip
>>Plus, it's across the
>>state line into Rhode Island and I don't know just yet what that would
>>mean as far as a state income tax goes. RI has one and CT has one. I
>>wonder if I'd have to pay in both states or what!
>
>Terry, your entire first paragraph is valid until you factor in how
>expensive it is to be unemployed. Unemployment sucks. Really sucks.
>If you can get the WC job, at least you'll have a job while you look
>for a job.
>
>An employee of an "out-of-state" company pays only the tax levied by
>his state of residence.
>
>Michael
I've been unemployed for an extended time. Yeah, it sucks. No cable,
no new clothes, no gifts, no donations, no new tools, no shopping, no
wood shows, no medical insurance, etc etc. Greatful to have some
food, although I've lost almost 40 pounds. Hello Bush?
Phisherman responds:
>
>I've been unemployed for an extended time. Yeah, it sucks. No cable,
>no new clothes, no gifts, no donations, no new tools, no shopping, no
>wood shows, no medical insurance, etc etc. Greatful to have some
>food, although I've lost almost 40 pounds. Hello Bush?
Yeah, well...I can't blame Bush for mine, but...it does suck. The concept of
restarting a business after over a year away is workable, I think, but it's
taking longer than anticipated and is more difficult because of changes in the
way things are done. Getting out was a serious mistake that has cost me some
serious money and probably delayed retirement 5 years, at a minimum.
And the unemployment checks are due to stop after the next 1 week version in
about 9 days. That's going to hurt even though the check was for less than half
what I made.
Charlie Self
"In the final choice a soldier's pack is not so heavy as a prisoner's chains."
Dwight D. Eisenhower
California is another state where you pay wage taxes even if you're
not a resident. A lot of G.I.s find that out the hard way. If you're
stationed in CA and get a part time job in the state, you have to pay
state income tax. This would have happened to me even though I was a
Michigan resident at the time.
On Tue, 09 Dec 2003 12:47:14 GMT, Michael Baglio
<mbaglio<NOSPAM>@nc.rr.com> wrote:
>On Tue, 09 Dec 2003 04:09:51 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>"Michael Baglio @nc.rr.com>" <mbaglio<NOSPAM> wrote in message
>>> An employee of an "out-of-state" company pays only the tax levied by
>>> his state of residence.
>>
>>Not always. I live in CT but work in MA. I have to pay the higher MA tax
>>and get what is paid as a credit to my CT tax...
>
>Huh... I've lived/worked in three different situations crossing
>various state lines and always paid only the tax in my state of
>residence.
>
>My experiences are limited to "states" however, not "commonwealths."
>
>M--
In article <[email protected]>, tsumner@
99main.com says...
> Hi all,
>
... snip of unfortunate business story
> Now there will be 600 or so people out of work,...me included. :o(
>
> Terry
>
Terry,
Very sorry to hear of your impending unemployment. From the
sounds of it, you are the kind of motivated employee that employers
would be glad to have on board. Good luck to you as you find your next
position.
Also, thanks for your information.
In article <[email protected]>,
jkajpust@###ameritech.net says...
> California is another state where you pay wage taxes even if you're
> not a resident. A lot of G.I.s find that out the hard way. If you're
> stationed in CA and get a part time job in the state, you have to pay
> state income tax.
Not surprising, CA is the state that a couple of years ago was trying
to figure out how to assess Hughes (I think) for real estate taxes on
the value of satellites it had in orbit. If'n I was a corporation and
had a presence in CA, I would have to have a really, really, really good
reason to stay in CA and not move to another (any other) state.
> This would have happened to me even though I was a
> Michigan resident at the time.
>
> On Tue, 09 Dec 2003 12:47:14 GMT, Michael Baglio
> <mbaglio<NOSPAM>@nc.rr.com> wrote:
>
> >On Tue, 09 Dec 2003 04:09:51 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]>
> >wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>
> >>"Michael Baglio @nc.rr.com>" <mbaglio<NOSPAM> wrote in message
> >>> An employee of an "out-of-state" company pays only the tax levied by
> >>> his state of residence.
> >>
> >>Not always. I live in CT but work in MA. I have to pay the higher MA tax
> >>and get what is paid as a credit to my CT tax...
> >
> >Huh... I've lived/worked in three different situations crossing
> >various state lines and always paid only the tax in my state of
> >residence.
> >
> >My experiences are limited to "states" however, not "commonwealths."
> >
> >M--
>
>
Mark & Juanitia writes:
>> California is another state where you pay wage taxes even if you're
>> not a resident. A lot of G.I.s find that out the hard way. If you're
>> stationed in CA and get a part time job in the state, you have to pay
>> state income tax.
>
> Not surprising, CA is the state that a couple of years ago was trying
>to figure out how to assess Hughes (I think) for real estate taxes on
>the value of satellites it had in orbit. If'n I was a corporation and
>had a presence in CA, I would have to have a really, really, really good
>reason to stay in CA and not move to another (any other) state.
>
I think CA is finding that out, now. People come for the weather (and because
they like crowds?), and businesses leave because they can't afford to do
business there.
Charlie Self
"In the final choice a soldier's pack is not so heavy as a prisoner's chains."
Dwight D. Eisenhower
On Mon, 08 Dec 2003 06:27:32 -0500, Terry Sumner <[email protected]>
wrote:
>There is a fairly new Woodcraft store where I had might be able to go
>to work at, but it's 34 miles from my home and in another state. My
>only vehicle is a Ford F250 4WD that only gets around 12 mpg. So that
>alone would cost quite a bit just to get there and back every day.
snip
>Plus, it's across the
>state line into Rhode Island and I don't know just yet what that would
>mean as far as a state income tax goes. RI has one and CT has one. I
>wonder if I'd have to pay in both states or what!
Terry, your entire first paragraph is valid until you factor in how
expensive it is to be unemployed. Unemployment sucks. Really sucks.
If you can get the WC job, at least you'll have a job while you look
for a job.
An employee of an "out-of-state" company pays only the tax levied by
his state of residence.
Michael
"Michael Baglio @nc.rr.com>" <mbaglio<NOSPAM> wrote in message
> An employee of an "out-of-state" company pays only the tax levied by
> his state of residence.
>
> Michael
Not always. I live in CT but work in MA. I have to pay the higher MA tax
and get what is paid as a credit to my CT tax (meaning I pay nothing on
wages here). Since I have other income at times, I have to pay CT tax on
that amount.
AFAIK, you will not pay more than the higher of any single state that you
live/work in.
Ed
[email protected]
http://pages.cthome.net/edhome
O
>Sorry about that, but join the crowd.
>
>Did any of you guys working that particular store think about getting financing
>and setting up on your own, renaming the location once WWW is gone, and doing
>your own thing? From what you say, the talent for woodworking and retail sales
>is there. Obviously, you'd need some buyers (good product managers in this
>field are hard to come by, but there should be some available with WWW out of
>business), and you'd need some financing, but that's what banks are for. A
>s
Hi Charlie,
Thanks for the kind words. Yeah, we have indeed thought of just such
a thing. But the amount needed for what we talked about....opening a
Woodcraft franchise....is way beyond our means.
But maybe..... you never know, right? :o)
Terry
Terry Summer notes:
>Hi Charlie,
>
>Thanks for the kind words. Yeah, we have indeed thought of just such
>a thing. But the amount needed for what we talked about....opening a
>Woodcraft franchise....is way beyond our means.
Yeah. I can promise you, I was NOT writinf of a Woodcraft franchise. I was
thinking more of an independent operation, one you guys planned out and
financed (through a bank) yourselves. I think, depending on your area, there
are federal and state and county grants to help out in depressed areas, too.
Your idea of a depressed area may not agree with the fed or state governments,
of course, but if they'll float a low interest loan....
Bringing jobs to almost any area, or keeping them from leaving, seems to be a
good way to draw government cash. Business welfare, but what the hell.
Charlie Self
"I have one yardstick by which I test every major problem-and that yardstick
is: Is it good for America?" Dwight D. Eisenhower
Yikes! I felt that nerve get hit all the way here in Stone
Mountain, Georgia!
<grin> Gotta love those independant stores!
"Charlie Self" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Terry Summer notes:
>
> >Hi Charlie,
> >
> >Thanks for the kind words. Yeah, we have indeed thought of
just such
> >a thing. But the amount needed for what we talked
about....opening a
> >Woodcraft franchise....is way beyond our means.
>
> Yeah. I can promise you, I was NOT writinf of a Woodcraft
franchise. I was
> thinking more of an independent operation, one you guys planned
out and
> financed (through a bank) yourselves. I think, depending on your
area, there
> are federal and state and county grants to help out in depressed
areas, too.
> Your idea of a depressed area may not agree with the fed or
state governments,
> of course, but if they'll float a low interest loan....
>
> Bringing jobs to almost any area, or keeping them from leaving,
seems to be a
> good way to draw government cash. Business welfare, but what the
hell.
>
> Charlie Self
>
> "I have one yardstick by which I test every major problem-and
that yardstick
> is: Is it good for America?" Dwight D. Eisenhower
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
"solarman" <[email protected]> wrote in news:GLSAb.19835$mG.1417
@bignews5.bellsouth.net:
> Yikes! I felt that nerve get hit all the way here in Stone
> Mountain, Georgia!
How are things in Stone Mountain?
I grew up there, but moved to NJ for work almost 13 years ago.
NJBrad
Same old stuff. The rock is still here, but run by the same folks
as Dollywood. More commercialized now. I am surprised they didn't
put a reptile farm in there... The Game Ranch moved outside the
park because of the politics...
"Brad Bruce" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "solarman" <[email protected]> wrote in news:GLSAb.19835$mG.1417
> @bignews5.bellsouth.net:
>
> > Yikes! I felt that nerve get hit all the way here in Stone
> > Mountain, Georgia!
>
> How are things in Stone Mountain?
>
> I grew up there, but moved to NJ for work almost 13 years ago.
>
> NJBrad
>Yeah. I can promise you, I was NOT writinf of a Woodcraft franchise. I was
>thinking more of an independent operation, one you guys planned out and
>financed (through a bank) yourselves. I think, depending on your area, there
>are federal and state and county grants to help out in depressed areas, too.
>Your idea of a depressed area may not agree with the fed or state governments,
>of course, but if they'll float a low interest loan....
>
The only trouble with opening an independant store would be being able
to compete. Within 40 miles of my area all around me there are at
least 4 Home Depots, a couple of Lowes and 2 Woodcraft franchises.
Unless the store was a member of some kind of buying co-op, it would
never have the buying power to get good enough wholesale prices to be
able to match or at least come close to the competitors.
That is why we see the Woodcraft franchise as a good way to get
multiple store pricing, but the almost a million dollar price tag is
wayyyy high!
I dunno....I spose we could look into grants.....
Terry
Terry Summer writes:
>The only trouble with opening an independant store would be being able
>to compete. Within 40 miles of my area all around me there are at
>least 4 Home Depots, a couple of Lowes and 2 Woodcraft franchises.
Must be a heavily populated area to have 2 WCS stores. The Lowe's and HD places
aren't really competition, except in the power tool arena, something with razor
thin margins anyway.
>Unless the store was a member of some kind of buying co-op, it would
>never have the buying power to get good enough wholesale prices to be
>able to match or at least come close to the competitors.
Probably true, but...I don't know for sure.
>That is why we see the Woodcraft franchise as a good way to get
>multiple store pricing, but the almost a million dollar price tag is
>wayyyy high!
Argh! Choke! You ain't kidding. But what does that include, outside of
permissions and logos and buying power?
Charlie Self
"In the final choice a soldier's pack is not so heavy as a prisoner's chains."
Dwight D. Eisenhower
Terry Sumner <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> >Argh! Choke! You ain't kidding. But what does that include, outside of
> >permissions and logos and buying power?
> >
> >Charlie Self
>
>
> Not totally sure, since we haven't investigated very far. But I sure
> would hope it included the goods!
>
> Terry
Last I heard to get a single store McDonalds franchise (obviously in
some real small market as all the rest are already taken) you must be
able to show a $2.5 million net worth. Don't know what the fees and
start-up costs are, but probably substantial even with the store and
all operating equipment leased.
Dave Hall
On Tue, 09 Dec 2003 04:09:51 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
>
>"Michael Baglio @nc.rr.com>" <mbaglio<NOSPAM> wrote in message
>> An employee of an "out-of-state" company pays only the tax levied by
>> his state of residence.
>
>Not always. I live in CT but work in MA. I have to pay the higher MA tax
>and get what is paid as a credit to my CT tax...
Huh... I've lived/worked in three different situations crossing
various state lines and always paid only the tax in my state of
residence.
My experiences are limited to "states" however, not "commonwealths."
M--
>That really sucks. Ask me why Bankers and Stock Brokers are right up
>there with Personal Injury Lawyers on my list. I'm sorry about you
>getting caught in the lurch, From what I've seen, HD or Lowe's could use
>a good manager, think about it. If they had someone who knew the
>business you'd be doing all of us a good turn.
>Dave in Fairfax
Thought of that! I even have a Home Depot about 4 miles from my
house! How convenient would that be huh? :o)
Only problem is...I talked to a number of management type guys from HD
and they are even more hamstrung than we were at WWW. The national
controls everything and the local managers don't have the power to do
much of anything on their own....so my knowledge wouldn't do a whole
lot of good except for maybe having someone in the tool dept who
actually knows what the tools are and what they do! LOL
There is a fairly new Woodcraft store where I had might be able to go
to work at, but it's 34 miles from my home and in another state. My
only vehicle is a Ford F250 4WD that only gets around 12 mpg. So that
alone would cost quite a bit just to get there and back every day. And
I don't know for absolute sure, but I wouldn't think the pay for a
sales associate there would be very high. Plus, it's across the
state line into Rhode Island and I don't know just yet what that would
mean as far as a state income tax goes. RI has one and CT has one. I
wonder if I'd have to pay in both states or what!
Terry
"John Grossbohlin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Scott" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > EL <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>...
> >
> > Finally, I have gift certificate, but none of the stores in NH seem to
> > be open still to honor them. I saw a post that stated the AG of
> > NY,CT,MA,NH all stating that the GC should be honored.
> >
> > Does anyone know which stores are still open where I can go to spend
> > $$$?
>
> Kingston, NY is still open.
>
I went to the Kingston store again today (Saturday)... I hope they close
soon as saving all this money is getting expensive ;-) Anyhow, for those
others that might be interested in "saving" 25% on stationary tools:
They still have a Jet right-tilt cabinet saw and a number of Jet
contractor's saws--I think there were some Delta contractor's too. There are
also a couple 15" planers left. A Jet mini lathe (or do they call them
midi??).
In smaller tools there is a PC 3 1/4 HP router. A couple PC butt hinge
mortise router templates. Some PC compressor/nail gun combos.
There is quite a bit of other stuff like clamps, router bits, and saw
blades.
So go save some money!
John
...will miss them as they were about 3 minutes from my office.
Michael Baglio
>
>
> Terry, your entire first paragraph is valid until you factor in how
> expensive it is to be unemployed. Unemployment sucks. Really sucks.
Yes. It does.
And yes, it is expensive. The $468 I get every two weeks falls way short
of what I was earning.
I find Terries thoughts of the expense of 6 gallons of gas a day typical
of those unfamiliar with the 'joys' of unemployment.
--
Mark
N.E. Ohio
Never argue with a fool, a bystander can't tell you apart. (S. Clemens,
A.K.A. Mark Twain)
When in doubt hit the throttle. It may not help but it sure ends the
suspense. (Gaz, r.moto)
Terry,
In looking through some of WWW's public filings it looks like WWW may
have been getting healthier but the pivotal event seems to be that shown
in their October 27, 2003 Form 8-K which says that their EBITDA target
was not achieved. Apparently this triggered the default that was called
by the Agent (Bank of America) on behalf of the syndicate (Bank of
America, Foothil Capital and Transamerica.)
Portion of text contained in 10/27/03 8-K:
"As previously reported, Woodworkers Warehouse, Inc. (the Company) did
not comply with the second-quarter EBITDA covenant contained in the Loan
and Security Agreement (the Loan Agreement) by and among the Company,
Bank of America, N.A., Foothill Capital Corporation and Transamerica
Business Capital Corporation (the Lenders). As a result, an event of
default exists under the Loan Agreement."
I'm personally going to miss WWW as they were the only good source near
me in Maine.
Boden
Terry Sumner wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Just thought I could end some of this speculation going on about WWW.
> The following is not official information from WWW....just the story
> as I know it. I am the Assistant Manager of one of the stores. Here
> is what happened...
>
> The parent company of WWW was formerly Trendlines. Most everyone knows
> this. Since woodworking was mainly a winter type business, Trendlines
> wanted to branch out into something that could generate sales in the
> summertime. For this reason, Trendlines bought the Golf Day company.
> In addititon, Trendlines also owned the Post Tool chain of tool
> stores. As most folks know, both Golf Day and Post Tools went under.
> WWW did not.
>
> As a result, the WWW stores chain ended up shouldering the burden of
> paying back the money from the bankruptcy caused by those 2 other
> chains. WWW itself was doing just fine prior to that debacle. At
> some point, the Trendlines name was gone and the corporation became
> simply, Woodworkers Warehouse. The Trendlines name was gone.
>
> Over the past few years, WWW has repaid many millions of dollars of
> the amount owed and had only 2 million to go. This year, the company
> would have turned a small profit actually until the latest debacle
> struck.
>
> You see, without naming same, a certain bank was providing the
> financing for store operations. This bank was recently bought out and
> taken over by another, bigger bank. WWW had a committment from the
> smaller bank for continued financing, but the takeover bank would not
> honor that agreement. So now, WWW was courting several other
> financial institutions for the needed financing. However, it took too
> long and WWW ended up in default because of the lack of financing.
> This meant they had to file for chapter 11, reorganization.
>
> In court it was decided that WWW had to put the inventory up for
> auction to repay creditors. Great American was the high bidder and
> they now own all the inventory in all 94 WWW stores.
>
> There is now a going out of business sale going on at all 94 WWW
> stores. Everything in the stores is now being sold at 10% off. The
> current sale flyer's ending date is the 10th of December. Prices in
> this flyer are being honored. And if an item is on sale, the 10% will
> be taken off the sale price. There will be no further rain checks,
> special orders, store-to store transfers, or anything like that.
>
> All WWW stores will remain open until all the inventory in that store
> is sold. Stuff that doesn't sell right away will probably be further
> reduced in the near future. Estimates range anywhere from 6 - 8 weeks
> for the completion of this process. But if there's something you want
> to obtain, ya better get it while the getting is good. It now becomes
> a crap shoot. You'll have to decide whether or not to buy it now at
> 10% off or wait till your item gets reduced even further. The catch
> is...the item you want may be gone if you wait too long. Not a sales
> pitch...just a fact of these going out of business sales.
>
> Cash or major credit card only. No checks.
>
> WWW does not owe Delta 20 million dollars as someone else said. But
> without solid financing in place, and the default because of that lack
> of financing, WWW was forced into this action.
>
> And finally, I am pretty sad about this. I really enjoyed my job at
> WWW. While I obviously cannot speak for any of the other stores, ours
> was a pretty damn good one. Those of us who work there were all
> woodworkers and we had a wealth of knowledge. We had just started
> woodworking classes back in August which I was teaching and this was
> going very well. In fact, we were very close to finishing a pretty
> well-equipped woodworking shop right in the store for teaching the
> classes. I realize that some folks have had problems with other WWW
> stores with unknowledgable staff, no stock, etc. But ours was very
> well run and we bent over backwards to get what the customer wanted.
>
> Now there will be 600 or so people out of work,...me included. :o(
>
> Terry
>
>