I don't own any spokeshaves and have never used one. I don't know if I've
never needed one or just didn't know I needed one. Just got Lee valleys
latest flyer and there on the back cover is their latest offering. Wooden
handled flat and round spokeshaves.
Now these certainly looks like tools I should have in my toolbox, but what
would I do with them.
I usually like to come up with a little justification when buying new tools
so I am looking to the group for some help here.
TIA
Woodpecker
The "old" ones they sell are head and shoulders above any with the steep
angle of attack. Not that the new ones aren't pretty, but the 1/8 A2 irons
with edges in line with the cut will work rings around 'em.
With the old-style design, it's difficult for even kids at school to make
the shave chatter.
"Woodpecker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I don't own any spokeshaves and have never used one. I don't know if I've
> never needed one or just didn't know I needed one. Just got Lee valleys
> latest flyer and there on the back cover is their latest offering. Wooden
> handled flat and round spokeshaves.
> Now these certainly looks like tools I should have in my toolbox, but what
> would I do with them.
> I usually like to come up with a little justification when buying new
tools
> so I am looking to the group for some help here.
>
> TIA
>
> Woodpecker
>
>
I agree with you completely. I can make most anything work (I have a Buck
plane that works very well) but these things need new parts made and re
machining on others. Not worth the effort.
"brocpuffs" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 09 Jan 2004 07:08:33 GMT, [email protected] (J Pagona aka Y.B.)
> wrote:
>
> >Spokeshaves have a lot of handy uses. They are basically the equivalent
of
> >very short planes. They're excellent for smoothing and shaping curved
items.
>
> Dunno if it's been said yet or not, but please do NOT buy the pretty
> blue Record shave all the stores seem to carry. They are masterful
> examples of lousy design, yet everybody sells them. People who buy
> them may never want to try a shave again.
>
> Specifics:
>
> 1. The bed is not flat (critical),
> 2. The leading edge of the um - I think it's the equivalent of the cap
> iron in regular planes - is rounded on the _underside, which makes it
> impossible for it to brace the blade from chatter. The curve is so
> great you won't have much metal left if you try to flatten it on the
> grinder,
>
> 3. The blade sucks anyway.
>
> Great example of a chattering machine, not of a plane or scraper of
> any kind!
>
> James
> [email protected]
>
Spokeshaves have a lot of handy uses. They are basically the equivalent of
very short planes. They're excellent for smoothing and shaping curved items.
They're handy for shaping wooden bevels and chamfers. When I'm doing things
like making furniture aprons with curved bottoms, I'll cut close to the line
with the bandsaw, and then trim to the line with a spokeshave. It's easier and
way more pleasant than sanding.
There are 2 basic type of spokeshaves. The typical metal bodied shave really
is pretty much a short plane. It has a bevel down blade and a lever cap to
hold it in place. The traditional wooden spokeshave (and the LV shave that has
been on the market for a few years) has a bevel up blade acts as the back part
of the sole of the shave. Many people prefer this type of shave.
If you want to try out a spokeshave at a reasonable cost, LV sells a pair of
not-quite traditional wooden shaves. They're listed as "contour planes" in the
catalog, and the pair of the small and medium shave are only $20. Wife
included the pair of them in my big box o' tools from LV Hannukah present.
With very little tuning, they worked well. (The friction fit of the tangs in
the body was a little loose on the small shave, but I put a very small sliver
of wood in the holes with the tangs, and now the fit is perfect.)
There are some variations of shaves on the market. One is a cigar shave, which
is useful in tight radiused curves. I have one that I bought, and recently I
made another one myself. I posted a picture here:
http://groups.msn.com/StuffbyDaveWife/recentprojects.msnw?action=ShowPhoto
&PhotoID=62
David
remove the key to email me.
On 16 Jan 2004 05:21:44 -0800, [email protected] (Conan the Librarian)
brought forth from the murky depths:
>Larry Jaques <novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
>
>> You're right. The people who need plans for a pointy stick would
>> surely be better served by buying a premade shave. I forgot. I
>> only -wish- they'd try building one since it's a great experience.
>
> I think you're being a bit hard on folks, Lar. I do pretty well
>making pointy sticks without plans (or at least I am able to draw up
>my own plans :-), but I'm not so sure I would have done very well
>making my Guntershave without having some prior experience with shaves
>and how they work.
Of course, but that's called "learning". I popped my shave cherry
on the purkleheartless Guntieshave in a total wreck of a shop using
a few hand tools and a mechanic's vise with no prior shave experience.
It's a shamelessly artsy-fartsy (not beautiful) thang, but it works!
Isn't that how toolmaking works? You build something, find out you
wish to do something a different way, then build another tool that
way...only to find out that you want something else different after
seeing the way the new tool performs? Tools are living things, just
like our styles of using them. The interaction between us, them, and
the wood is the fun part.
> Let me re-phrase that: I still could have *made* it, but I'm not
>sure I would have been able to tweak it to get it to perform well.
>Heck, as it was, it wasn't until my second wooden shave that I really
>got it down.
Tweaking is an advanced art, not a newbie thing. One doesn't tweak
(except by chance) until they fully understand the tool, the
technique, and the expected outcome. Let's hope nobody expects
absolute perfection "first time, every time." My iron binds just a bit
when seating, an angle resulting in a 0.002" difference between sides,
due to being hand fitted. I left it that way after testing it because
it turned out to be so very handy. The right side is the hog and takes
off a 0.003" cut. The left side is a fine smoother at 0.001". Since I
don't use the whole blade width at any given time, it works
wonderfully. I later tweaked it to open up the throat and allow the
curlies out more easily.
I can either leave the blade out a bit or take to the LVT carving
drawknife for deeper hogging off of wood.
-
If the gods had meant us to vote, they'd have given us candidates.
--------------
http://diversify.com Website Application Programming
On 09 Jan 2004 07:08:33 GMT, [email protected] (J Pagona aka Y.B.)
brought forth from the murky depths:
>There are some variations of shaves on the market. One is a cigar shave, which
>is useful in tight radiused curves. I have one that I bought, and recently I
>made another one myself. I posted a picture here:
>http://groups.msn.com/StuffbyDaveWife/recentprojects.msnw?action=ShowPhoto
>&PhotoID=62
Cool.
I like the strange fish in your QuiltQuarium(tmLJ) there, too.
--------------------------------------------
Proud (occasional) maker of Hungarian Paper Towels.
http://www.diversify.com Comprehensive Website Design
======================================================
On 10 Jan 2004 00:00:56 GMT, [email protected] (J Pagona aka Y.B.)
brought forth from the murky depths:
>>From: Larry Jaques
>
>>I like the strange fish in your QuiltQuarium(tmLJ) there, too.
>>
>
>hehehehehe....Wife really liked that. You coined a winner there.
Tendjewberrymosh, David. Gladtobeobserviz.
--------------------------------------------
Proud (occasional) maker of Hungarian Paper Towels.
http://www.diversify.com Comprehensive Website Design
======================================================
On 09 Jan 2004 07:08:33 GMT, [email protected] (J Pagona aka Y.B.)
wrote:
>Spokeshaves have a lot of handy uses. They are basically the equivalent of
>very short planes. They're excellent for smoothing and shaping curved items.
Dunno if it's been said yet or not, but please do NOT buy the pretty
blue Record shave all the stores seem to carry. They are masterful
examples of lousy design, yet everybody sells them. People who buy
them may never want to try a shave again.
Specifics:
1. The bed is not flat (critical),
2. The leading edge of the um - I think it's the equivalent of the cap
iron in regular planes - is rounded on the _underside, which makes it
impossible for it to brace the blade from chatter. The curve is so
great you won't have much metal left if you try to flatten it on the
grinder,
3. The blade sucks anyway.
Great example of a chattering machine, not of a plane or scraper of
any kind!
James
[email protected]
"Conan the Librarian" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> work"). A drawknife is for rustic work, a shave is a finishing tool.
HEP! Disagree! I can make my drawknife do as fine
a work as you may care to define!
(mind you, it can also hog bits out better than a scrub plane...)
:D
> a lathe. Shaves really stand out in situations like this, and a
> well-set one can handle the grain transitions on curves without
> tearout.
the ones I still use a lot are the brass mini shaves LV used
to sell a few years ago. The three small ones with the different
soles. They are so handy to clean up carvings it's unreal.
> without one. And I just enjoy using a shave. It's one of the more
> relaxing and pleasureable shop activities around.
wait until you start on the *big* drawknife... ;)
--
Cheers and a HNY
Nuno Souto
[email protected]
They are still used by coopers today for
smoothing the sides of barrels. And a host
of other uses.
--
Cheers
Nuno Souto
[email protected]
"Jeffrey Thunder" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> I was under the impression that drawknives were invented (if
> that's the correct word) for "rustic work" such as making round
> poles, log house construction, and the like.
Precisely. And with the impatience of youth, one bad experience can be all
that's required. Good reference on that big blade for them.
"Conan the Librarian" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> > With the old-style design, it's difficult for even kids at school to
make
> > the shave chatter.
>
> I've found that when I get chatter it's more likely a matter of how
> I am holding the shave. The low-angle design does help, but I was
> getting zero chatter with the other one.
As the user of both, I disagree. The less fussy Veritas model is far and
away the first choice. After that, if you just want a project, you can
build anything you want.
"Larry Jaques" <novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> I disagree. BUILDING ONE, as we did, is a better first shave,
> especially with a Hock blade in it. Learning how to use it as
> you build it makes it even better.
>
> The Veritas L/A shave would be a better second shave.
>
> And who needs a third? <ducking + nomex=ON>
Yep. F'rinstance you could tip the "ears" of your round-nosed forward a bit
to favor a natural "bite" rather than half-turning your grip as you do on
the Veritas. I carve spoons, and keep one permanently set for flat, one
for round. Safer than a drawknife, and damn near as fast.
"Conan the Librarian" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> > As the user of both, I disagree. The less fussy Veritas model is far
and
> > away the first choice. After that, if you just want a project, you can
> > build anything you want.
>
> I would agree with this assessment. As a newbie it would be much
> easier to use the Veritas until you get the hang of what spokeshaving
> is all about. Then you could build various Guntershaves for different
> needs (i.e., a small one with a sharply-radiused toe for getting into
> tight inside curves, etc.)
"Woodpecker" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >I don't own any spokeshaves and have never used one. I don't know if I've
> >never needed one or just didn't know I needed one. Just got Lee valleys
> >latest flyer and there on the back cover is their latest offering. Wooden
> >handled flat and round spokeshaves.
> >Now these certainly looks like tools I should have in my toolbox, but what
> >would I do with them.
> >I usually like to come up with a little justification when buying new tools
> >so I am looking to the group for some help here.
I'll go along with Paul on this one. Veritas tools are good quality,
and if you aren't used to using a spokeshave it makes a lot of sense to
get one that will work out of the box unless you are a natural with
tools. I picked up a HF shave a while back to play with, i hadn't used
it, got too many other good ones, but since I found a use for it I
decided to see if it would work. Nope. I changed the angle of the bed
on my grinder, flattened it and sharpened the blade. It works now, but
I had to take a pile of metal off the heel of the bed before the thing
would cut. Word to the wise.
Dave in Fairfax
--
reply-to doesn't work
use:
daveldr at att dot net
American Association of Woodturners
http://www.woodturner.org
Capital Area Woodturners
http://www.capwoodturners.org/
> I picked up a HF shave a while back to play with, i hadn't used
>it, got too many other good ones, but since I found a use for it I
>decided to see if it would work. Nope. I changed the angle of the bed
>on my grinder, flattened it and sharpened the blade. It works now, but
>I had to take a pile of metal off the heel of the bed before the thing
>would cut. Word to the wise.
>Dave in Fairfax
Can you give some detail on this fix? I was given two HF spokeshaves and almost
just tossed them as they appear useless. Having never used (or even seen) a
good spokeshave I am not sure how to make these usable.
Dave Hall
David Hall wrote:
> Can you give some detail on this fix? I was given two HF spokeshaves and almost
> just tossed them as they appear useless. Having never used (or even seen) a
> good spokeshave I am not sure how to make these usable.
Joan, this is how I did it, BTW.
Sure! Take a look at the shave from the side. The blade is at about a
55-60 degree angle. Now look at the heel of the shave. There is a
lagre ridge of casting as though someone had squashed the rear of the
shave and that was where the excess had spread out. Unfortunately that
heel area is where the twin adjuster rods seat. What you need to do is
grind away the rear until ther is very little left, just enough that the
posts aren't showing through on the sole. The grind the bottom until it
is now longer rounded but instead is flat from that new rear sole to the
front of the sole. You'll be taking off a fair amount in the rear very
little in the middle, none in the front. You've got to sneak up on this
'cause you can't put it back after an OOPS. When you've ground it flat,
both side to side and front to back, take it over to your belt sander
Not a 1" vertical, but one with a plate the belt runs over, and lap the
hollows out of the grinding. When you've sanded it square and flat,
tkae it over to your Scarey Sharp (tm) setup and polish the bottom.
That takes care of the shave. You still have a POS blade in there. The
good news is that you can make it sharp, it just isn't as easy as
getting your plane sharp. I recommend hollow grinding the bevel and
then Scarey Sharping (tm) it. By riding the edge and the back of the
bevel you'll automatically be putting a micro-bevel on it. I hope that
was clear, if it wasn't contact me off-line and we can go into greqater
detail.
Dave in Fairfax
--
reply-to doesn't work
use:
daveldr at att dot net
American Association of Woodturners
http://www.woodturner.org
Capital Area Woodturners
http://www.capwoodturners.org/
"Dan Parrell" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> The one I have is at least 60-70 years old.It's not something you
> immediately grab for in the shop but it is great for doing rustic work.I've
> made hand made dowels with it,set the blade back and trimmed off step
> edges,great for putting small radius on corners that need paint or varnish.
> Come to think of it,....it's a handy little versatile tool.
IMHO, it depends on if you do much curved work or not. I have ...
er ... several, and I use them on a regular basis. I'd have to
disgree with one of your statements above (a shave is for "rustic
work"). A drawknife is for rustic work, a shave is a finishing tool.
I do a fair amount of carving, and I make bowls without the help of
a lathe. Shaves really stand out in situations like this, and a
well-set one can handle the grain transitions on curves without
tearout.
As for the original poster: If you haven't missed not having one,
then I guess you've been fortunate. But I know that I couldn't get by
without one. And I just enjoy using a shave. It's one of the more
relaxing and pleasureable shop activities around.
Chuck Vance
Just say (tmPL) And the LV/Veritas shave wouldn't be a bad place
to start for a newbie to shaves.
"George" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> The "old" ones they sell are head and shoulders above any with the steep
> angle of attack. Not that the new ones aren't pretty, but the 1/8 A2 irons
> with edges in line with the cut will work rings around 'em.
I would have expected that as well, and I've always had a
preference for low-angle shaves. But, the new LV shave gives the
other one a run for its money. It is a joy to use from an ergonomic
standpoint (wooden handles, curved depressions cast into the body for
your thumbs to rest on), has the thick iron, and the added mass can be
a plus, IME.
I guess it depends on what you plan to use a shave for. I expect
I'll still reach for the low-angle shave for getting a surface ready
for finishing, but I can see the other one being very handy for
heavier stock removal. And it did a suprisingly good job on endgrain.
> With the old-style design, it's difficult for even kids at school to make
> the shave chatter.
I've found that when I get chatter it's more likely a matter of how
I am holding the shave. The low-angle design does help, but I was
getting zero chatter with the other one. Again, the added mass may
have been a factor, as I found it very easy to really hug the work
with the shave.
Chuck Vance
Just say (tmPL) If I was forced to choose between the two I
*might* give the low-angle a slight edge for ease of adjustability,
but it would be a tough choice.
"George" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Precisely. And with the impatience of youth, one bad experience can be all
> that's required. Good reference on that big blade for them.
I guess I should have paid closer attention to what you actually
wrote, not what I thought I was reading. :-) You are absolutely
right that the low-angle version is almost foolproof. And having a
fair amount of experience with shaves, I know how to avoid chatter
even on a tool that might be prone to it.
Also, maybe I'm a natural with these things. I remember when I
first got an old #53 and put it to the test, and I happily made
semi-round pieces out of square pieces for hours on end, just because
it was so much fun. :-) Then I made a wooden low-angle shave with
one of the irons that John Gunterman had made for his shave-making
classes, and I was totally blown away by what it could do.
So, yes ... for a newbie to shaves, the Veritas low-angle would
likely be the best first choice. For those who use shaves a lot for
various tasks, the new Veritas high-angle would be an excellent
addition to their tool arsenals.
Chuck Vance
"George" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> [Lar says build a Guntershave first, then buy the Veritas low-angle]
>
> As the user of both, I disagree. The less fussy Veritas model is far and
> away the first choice. After that, if you just want a project, you can
> build anything you want.
I would agree with this assessment. As a newbie it would be much
easier to use the Veritas until you get the hang of what spokeshaving
is all about. Then you could build various Guntershaves for different
needs (i.e., a small one with a sharply-radiused toe for getting into
tight inside curves, etc.)
Oh, and Larry, as for not needing more than two shaves -- maybe I
could get by if I woodworked like you do (i.e., making a project every
year or three).
Chuck Vance
Just say (tmPL) Heh. :-)
Larry Jaques <novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> [building vs. buying first low-angle shave]
>
> I hold to my total immersion theory and maintain that the learning
> experience heightens the overall delight of these animals. YMOV.
Yes, it O does V. :-) I don't regret having made my first
Guntershave as a learning experience, but it wasn't until I made my
*second* one that I really got everything right. Someone who doesn't
use a shave a lot might not have had the patience and/or need to work
on the second one like I did. They might be better served by simply
buying one that can be set up and working beautifully within minutes
after opening the box it came in.
Then if they find that they like the things, they can build
special-use shaves to their heart's content. (I'm sticking to my
story, too. :-)
> > Oh, and Larry, as for not needing more than two shaves -- maybe I
> >could get by if I woodworked like you do (i.e., making a project every
> >year or three).
>
> Ye of little faith! I've already completed one project so far this
> year.
Which year is that? :-)
> What are you talking about? And I'm getting ready to do another
> large one. After becoming sick of it, I'm going to cover all the ugly
> stained ash in this new house with a nice coat of pure white paint.
> <g>
Hmmmm ... so that will be an improvement?
Chuck Vance
"George" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> [making specialized wooden shaves]
>
> Yep. F'rinstance you could tip the "ears" of your round-nosed forward a bit
> to favor a natural "bite" rather than half-turning your grip as you do on
> the Veritas. I carve spoons, and keep one permanently set for flat, one
> for round. Safer than a drawknife, and damn near as fast.
Good advice. And as for the shave versus drawknife -- one of the
things I learned from John Gunterman was that the shave is supposed to
be a finesse tool; the drawknife is for stock removal. As much as I
like John and have learned from him, I find that with the right shave
(properly set up), stock removal is a breeze. It doesn't hog material
like a drawknife, but it's easier to use, and there's almost no chance
that you will remove too much stock or put a nasty gouge in your work.
And now to come full circle, the new Veritas #151 shave would be an
excellent tool to use for moderate stock removal. :-)
Chuck Vance
Larry Jaques <novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> You're right. The people who need plans for a pointy stick would
> surely be better served by buying a premade shave. I forgot. I
> only -wish- they'd try building one since it's a great experience.
I think you're being a bit hard on folks, Lar. I do pretty well
making pointy sticks without plans (or at least I am able to draw up
my own plans :-), but I'm not so sure I would have done very well
making my Guntershave without having some prior experience with shaves
and how they work.
Let me re-phrase that: I still could have *made* it, but I'm not
sure I would have been able to tweak it to get it to perform well.
Heck, as it was, it wasn't until my second wooden shave that I really
got it down.
Chuck Vance
"Joel Jacobson" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> [shaves vs. drawknives]
>
> The one exception is working with green (wet) wood which tends to clog up
> the spokeshave. Also, I've got a couple of smaller, thinner bladed
> drawknives that allow for finer work.
What brands, etc. do you use?
> I find that using the drawknife with the bevel down gives me more control
> and has less tendency to dig in.
I've read folks who recommend using them exclusively that way.
I've also read that you should double-bevel the things (or at least
put a slight back-bevel on the off-side). Any thoughts on that?
I'm still new to drawknife use (my last project was the first time
I've really spent much time with it), so I'm open to suggestions on
getting the best out of the thing.
Chuck Vance
On 9 Jan 2004 19:25:07 GMT, [email protected] (Jeffrey Thunder)
brought forth from the murky depths:
>I was under the impression that drawknives were invented (if
>that's the correct word) for "rustic work" such as making round
>poles, log house construction, and the like.
>Does anybody out here in Fort Stinkin Desert know
>what they were initially designed for?
(Nobody here but us Indians.) They're for slicing wood.
Planes flatten, drawknives round and shape.
Alex Bealer sez "Two tools similar in the techniques of use
and design and almost identical in function are used to shape
smaller timbers and boards and provide a smooth, if somewhat
irregular, surface. These are the drawknife and the spokeshave,
both already unfamiliar to many modern woodworkers and somewhat
difficult to acquire in modern stores."
Michael Dunbar likens them to planes, but says they're a cross
between a hewing tool and a plane. As he states in his book,
I, too, cussed the thing the first hour I worked with it. I then
learned to loosen up my grip and was in love with it in no time.
The looser the grip you have on it, the more control you have.
Go figure!
>Where is Eric Sloane when you need him?
>
>(That's a rhetorical question if you're humor-impaired.)
He's right there on your bookshelf, sir. "A Reverence for Wood"
is my favorite, but I don't think there's anything in there
about drawknives in that one.
--------------------------------------------
Proud (occasional) maker of Hungarian Paper Towels.
http://www.diversify.com Comprehensive Website Design
======================================================
On Thu, 8 Jan 2004 16:20:49 -0500, "Woodpecker" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>I don't own any spokeshaves and have never used one. I don't know if I've
>never needed one or just didn't know I needed one. Just got Lee valleys
>latest flyer and there on the back cover is their latest offering. Wooden
>handled flat and round spokeshaves.
>Now these certainly looks like tools I should have in my toolbox, but what
>would I do with them.
>I usually like to come up with a little justification when buying new tools
>so I am looking to the group for some help here.
>
>TIA
>
>Woodpecker
>
My personal rule is if you don't need it, don't buy it until you do.
This saves a LOT of money--maybe that's why I have a PM66.
Chuck -
The reason people double bevel a drawknife is to get it to cut "out" as well
as cut in.....with one flat surface, you lose the ability to change the cut
direction without prying...
If you think of a carving tool - you want a clean entry AND clean exit -
hence the rounded bevel facing the wood...
When using a drawnife for rough shaping - bevel up is ok.... for finer work
with the same knife, bevel down will give better depth of cut control...
Cheers -
Rob
"Conan the Librarian" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Joel Jacobson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
>
> > [shaves vs. drawknives]
> >
> > The one exception is working with green (wet) wood which tends to clog
up
> > the spokeshave. Also, I've got a couple of smaller, thinner bladed
> > drawknives that allow for finer work.
>
> What brands, etc. do you use?
>
> > I find that using the drawknife with the bevel down gives me more
control
> > and has less tendency to dig in.
>
> I've read folks who recommend using them exclusively that way.
> I've also read that you should double-bevel the things (or at least
> put a slight back-bevel on the off-side). Any thoughts on that?
>
> I'm still new to drawknife use (my last project was the first time
> I've really spent much time with it), so I'm open to suggestions on
> getting the best out of the thing.
>
>
> Chuck Vance
The one I have is at least 60-70 years old.It's not something you
immediately grab for in the shop but it is great for doing rustic work.I've
made hand made dowels with it,set the blade back and trimmed off step
edges,great for putting small radius on corners that need paint or varnish.
Come to think of it,....it's a handy little versatile tool.
dp
"Woodpecker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I don't own any spokeshaves and have never used one. I don't know if I've
> never needed one or just didn't know I needed one. Just got Lee valleys
> latest flyer and there on the back cover is their latest offering. Wooden
> handled flat and round spokeshaves.
> Now these certainly looks like tools I should have in my toolbox, but what
> would I do with them.
> I usually like to come up with a little justification when buying new
tools
> so I am looking to the group for some help here.
>
> TIA
>
> Woodpecker
>
>
Noons wrote:
> "Conan the Librarian" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
>>A drawknife is for rustic work, a shave is a finishing tool.
>
> HEP! Disagree! I can make my drawknife do as fine
> a work as you may care to define!
>
> (mind you, it can also hog bits out better than a scrub plane...)
> :D
OK, you got me, Nooners. :-) I should know better, and in fact,
over the holidays I carved a small statue out of a mesquite log using my
trusty old Jennings for roughing the piece out. With a little different
approach (skewed with a light touch), I was able to get close to a
finished surface on it. But I still took my shave for the last bit of
smoothing of the surfaces.
>>a lathe. Shaves really stand out in situations like this, and a
>>well-set one can handle the grain transitions on curves without
>>tearout.
>
> the ones I still use a lot are the brass mini shaves LV used
> to sell a few years ago. The three small ones with the different
> soles. They are so handy to clean up carvings it's unreal.
I never did pick up those guys, but between my mini-Guntershave with
a radiused sole, big Guntershave with a barely-radiused sole, MF#1,
Stanley #53, low-angle Veritas, plus the new Veritas #151, I think I've
got all the bases covered.
And no ... I don't have a Tool Problem.
>>without one. And I just enjoy using a shave. It's one of the more
>>relaxing and pleasureable shop activities around.
>
> wait until you start on the *big* drawknife... ;)
When I was hogging wood off with the Jennings, I was working up
quite a sweat. (And yes, the chunks were larger than a scrub.) Not
quite the same as leisurely peeling off little curlies with my shave. :-)
Chuck Vance
Just say (tmPL) But I admit I still need more practice with my
drawknife.
In article <[email protected]>,
Conan The Librarian <[email protected]> writes:
> Noons wrote:
>> "Conan the Librarian" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>A drawknife is for rustic work, a shave is a finishing tool.
>>
>> HEP! Disagree! I can make my drawknife do as fine
>> a work as you may care to define!
> OK, you got me, Nooners. :-) I should know better, and in fact,
I was under the impression that drawknives were invented (if
that's the correct word) for "rustic work" such as making round
poles, log house construction, and the like.
Does anybody out here in Fort Stinkin Desert know
what they were initially designed for?
Where is Eric Sloane when you need him?
(That's a rhetorical question if you're humor-impaired.)
--
Jeff Thunder
Dept. of Mathematical Sciences
Northern Illinois Univ.
jthunder at math dot niu dot edu
Larry,
How is that bowsaw coming along . G,D,&R
--
Alan Bierbaum
Web Site: http://www.calanb.com
Recent Project Page: http://www.calanb.com/recent.html
Workbench project: http://www.calanb.com/wbench.html
"Larry Jaques" <novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 14 Jan 2004 04:56:12 -0800, [email protected] (Conan the Librarian)
> brought forth from the murky depths:
>
>
>> Ye of little faith! I've already completed one project so far this
> year. What are you talking about? And I'm getting ready to do another
> large one. After becoming sick of it, I'm going to cover all the ugly
> stained ash in this new house with a nice coat of pure white paint.
> <g>
>
> P.S: No, I didn't stain the crap. It came that way.
>
>
> ----------------------------------
> VIRTUE...is its own punishment
> http://www.diversify.com Website Applications
> ==================================================
> ... the shave is supposed to be a finesse tool; the drawknife is for
stock removal. .... I find that with the right shave (properly set up),
stock removal is a breeze. It doesn't hog material like a drawknife, but
it's easier to use ...
The one exception is working with green (wet) wood which tends to clog up
the spokeshave. Also, I've got a couple of smaller, thinner bladed
drawknives that allow for finer work.
> ... and there's almost no chance that you will remove too much stock or
put a nasty gouge in your work.
I find that using the drawknife with the bevel down gives me more control
and has less tendency to dig in.
Robin Lee wrote:
> The reason people double bevel a drawknife is to get it to cut "out" as well
> as cut in.....with one flat surface, you lose the ability to change the cut
> direction without prying...
>
> If you think of a carving tool - you want a clean entry AND clean exit -
> hence the rounded bevel facing the wood...
Rob,
Nice explanation/analogy, thanks.
> When using a drawnife for rough shaping - bevel up is ok.... for finer work
> with the same knife, bevel down will give better depth of cut control...
I'll try that on my next project. I've read people who say they can
get a surface from the drawknife that's as good as any a shave produces,
and I wondered how the heck they got that. I managed to do pretty well
on my last project, but it took imparting quite a bit of "English" to
the tool as I was taking a slicing cut.
It just seemed so much easier with a shave that I gave up on the
drawknife after a while. :-)
Chuck Vance
Just say (tmPL) I guess I really do need to practice more with
the things.
Unless i am mistaken , i think your missing the point of the op. if you
never knew what sandpaper was used for and all you have been using was a
scraper, wouldn't it be worth knowing the benefits of sandpaper?
"Phisherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Thu, 8 Jan 2004 16:20:49 -0500, "Woodpecker" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >I don't own any spokeshaves and have never used one. I don't know if I've
> >never needed one or just didn't know I needed one. Just got Lee valleys
> >latest flyer and there on the back cover is their latest offering. Wooden
> >handled flat and round spokeshaves.
> >Now these certainly looks like tools I should have in my toolbox, but
what
> >would I do with them.
> >I usually like to come up with a little justification when buying new
tools
> >so I am looking to the group for some help here.
> >
> >TIA
> >
> >Woodpecker
> >
>
>
> My personal rule is if you don't need it, don't buy it until you do.
> This saves a LOT of money--maybe that's why I have a PM66.
On 14 Jan 2004 04:56:12 -0800, [email protected] (Conan the Librarian)
brought forth from the murky depths:
>"George" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
>
>> [Lar says build a Guntershave first, then buy the Veritas low-angle]
>>
>> As the user of both, I disagree. The less fussy Veritas model is far and
>> away the first choice. After that, if you just want a project, you can
>> build anything you want.
>
> I would agree with this assessment. As a newbie it would be much
>easier to use the Veritas until you get the hang of what spokeshaving
>is all about. Then you could build various Guntershaves for different
>needs (i.e., a small one with a sharply-radiused toe for getting into
>tight inside curves, etc.)
I hold to my total immersion theory and maintain that the learning
experience heightens the overall delight of these animals. YMOV.
> Oh, and Larry, as for not needing more than two shaves -- maybe I
>could get by if I woodworked like you do (i.e., making a project every
>year or three).
Ye of little faith! I've already completed one project so far this
year. What are you talking about? And I'm getting ready to do another
large one. After becoming sick of it, I'm going to cover all the ugly
stained ash in this new house with a nice coat of pure white paint.
<g>
P.S: No, I didn't stain the crap. It came that way.
----------------------------------
VIRTUE...is its own punishment
http://www.diversify.com Website Applications
==================================================
"Woodpecker" <[email protected]> wrote:
>I don't own any spokeshaves and have never used one. I don't know if I've
>never needed one or just didn't know I needed one. Just got Lee valleys
>latest flyer and there on the back cover is their latest offering. Wooden
>handled flat and round spokeshaves.
>Now these certainly looks like tools I should have in my toolbox, but what
>would I do with them.
>I usually like to come up with a little justification when buying new tools
>so I am looking to the group for some help here.
>
>TIA
>
>Woodpecker
>
While I can't speak for the new Veritas spokeshaves, I just recently
received a Veritas low angle spokeshave which cut like a dream
straight out of the box.
I've had no prior experience with shaves other than seeing them on the
wall in my Dad's basement workshop.
I'm currently using the shave to put a smooth surface on some mahogany
feet for a project. It did a great job of cleaning up after the
bandsaw.
Hope this helps.
Paul
On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 16:24:31 -0700, "Alan Bierbaum"
<[email protected]> brought forth from the murky depths:
>Larry,
>
>How is that bowsaw coming along . G,D,&R
Hey, hey, hey, none of that, sir. It's happy in its box
on the shelf. Some shelf out there in the shop.
----------------------------------
VIRTUE...is its own punishment
http://www.diversify.com Website Applications
==================================================
In article <[email protected]>,
Larry Jaques <novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> writes:
> On 9 Jan 2004 19:25:07 GMT, [email protected] (Jeffrey Thunder)
> brought forth from the murky depths:
>>Where is Eric Sloane when you need him?
>
> He's right there on your bookshelf, sir. "A Reverence for Wood"
> is my favorite, but I don't think there's anything in there
> about drawknives in that one.
Well, now that I'm back home, I see that A Museum of Early
American Tools has exactly what I was looking for. To quote:
The drawknife was used to taper the sides of shingles, to
rough-size the edges of floor boards and rough-trim paneling
before planing them, to fashion axe, rake and other tool
handles, and wheel spokes.
and
The final finishing on much drawknife work was done by [the]
spokeshave.
I rest my case. :)
(Not that anyone is listening any more.)
--
Jeff Thunder
The From: header above is wrong on porpoise
To reply, use jeffthunder (at) comcast (dot) net
On 13 Jan 2004 04:59:05 -0800, [email protected] (Conan the Librarian)
brought forth from the murky depths:
> Also, maybe I'm a natural with these things. I remember when I
>first got an old #53 and put it to the test, and I happily made
>semi-round pieces out of square pieces for hours on end, just because
>it was so much fun. :-) Then I made a wooden low-angle shave with
>one of the irons that John Gunterman had made for his shave-making
>classes, and I was totally blown away by what it could do.
Verily!
> So, yes ... for a newbie to shaves, the Veritas low-angle would
>likely be the best first choice. For those who use shaves a lot for
>various tasks, the new Veritas high-angle would be an excellent
>addition to their tool arsenals.
I disagree. BUILDING ONE, as we did, is a better first shave,
especially with a Hock blade in it. Learning how to use it as
you build it makes it even better.
The Veritas L/A shave would be a better second shave.
And who needs a third? <ducking + nomex=ON>
--
Vidi, Vici, Veni
---
http://diversify.com Comprehensive Website Development
On 15 Jan 2004 05:06:07 -0800, [email protected] (Conan the Librarian)
brought forth from the murky depths:
> Yes, it O does V. :-) I don't regret having made my first
>Guntershave as a learning experience, but it wasn't until I made my
>*second* one that I really got everything right. Someone who doesn't
>use a shave a lot might not have had the patience and/or need to work
>on the second one like I did. They might be better served by simply
>buying one that can be set up and working beautifully within minutes
>after opening the box it came in.
You're right. The people who need plans for a pointy stick would
surely be better served by buying a premade shave. I forgot. I
only -wish- they'd try building one since it's a great experience.
>> Ye of little faith! I've already completed one project so far this
>> year.
>
> Which year is that? :-)
2004, suh.
> Hmmmm ... so that will be an improvement?
Unfortunately, yes. I tried refinishing a couple doors and even
a good stripping and clearcoat didn't improve their looks. Paint is
also a lot cheaper than replacing $2k worth of ugly carpeting (next
on the agenda) or a grand on wood/hardware for cabinets to brighten
up the kitchen and living room. Somehow, I don't think bleaching the
old ash ply would make it look decent, either.
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