Sketchup help

On Tue, 08 Jan 2013 13:30:57 -0600, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:

>On 1/8/2013 12:52 PM, Mike M wrote:
>> I'm just getting comfortable with
>> the 3D aspect of drawing and use of the most common drawing tools. I'm
>> slowly moving forward but at least the frustratiion is still very low.
>
>Two most frustrating things in SU:
>
>~ When things you draw stick together ... solution: make sure you make
>everything you draw either a "component" or "group" _before_ you draw
>something else that touches it.
>
>~ Moving one component/group from a different part of the screen to
>place it against another component/group ... solution: when you find
>out, let me know too! ;)
>
><just kidding>
>
>Although the latter does often bite most of in the butt, even with a lot
>of experience, there is a feature in SU know as the "inference" engine,
>which can be a big help when trying to join components/groups drawn on a
>different plane/axis. Locking (constraint) this inference with a
>keystroke can often help when moving objects around:
>
>http://support.google.com/sketchup/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=70142

I have used the inference feature in one tutorial and it does save
having to zoom in to see where you actually are. I know me well
enough to know that if I start jumping into far I'll get frustrated
and stop. I just keep putting one foot in front of the other. Now if
I could just find my cadd drawing of where to dig to pump the septic
tank. I've got a backhoe but would prefer to hand dig as it's not
more then a foot beneath grade, and well S*** happens if applying to
big a tool.

Mike M

On Tue, 08 Jan 2013 13:30:57 -0600, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:

>~ When things you draw stick together ... solution: make sure you make
>everything you draw either a "component" or "group" _before_ you draw
>something else that touches it.

OK, now I gotta ask...

I've been using SU for some time and am reasonably proficient (>30%
mark). What is the difference between a component and a group? ISTM
that they're two (different) ways of doing exactly the same thing.
When would I use one over the other?

On 1/15/2013 3:33 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Tue, 08 Jan 2013 13:30:57 -0600, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> ~ When things you draw stick together ... solution: make sure you make
>> everything you draw either a "component" or "group" _before_ you draw
>> something else that touches it.
>
> OK, now I gotta ask...
>
> I've been using SU for some time and am reasonably proficient (>30%
> mark). What is the difference between a component and a group? ISTM
> that they're two (different) ways of doing exactly the same thing.
> When would I use one over the other?

Hard to beat this definition, so I'll post the link rather than trying
to paraphrase it:

http://www.sketchuptutorials.net/2011/10/26/sketchup-glossary-groups-versus-components/

Basically "Groups" are useful to logically group a single collection of
individual geometry, like assembling six faces into a box, a brick, etc.

A "Component" is appropriate when you want to reuse the exact same
component/collection of individual geometry, multiple times (studs,
beams, stiles, rails, etc.)

Components can also attach themselves automatically to other geometry
(faces, horizontal faces only, etc) and they can also be easily stored
and reused in other files.

The difference can also be an important factor in file size and
performance of the model and computer:

With "groups", each copy of a group added to the model is stored in the
model, thus multiple copies of a "group" add to the file size.

With "components", there is only one of each unique component stored in
the model, all copies of that component inserted in a model are simply
an instance of that one stored component.

NOTE: as stated previously in another thread ... it is well to note that
the use of multiple "nested" components in a model can indeed slow
SketchUp's performance ... regardless of file size.


--
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Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://plus.google.com/114902129577517371552/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

<[email protected]> wrote:
> On Tue, 15 Jan 2013 18:10:36 -0600, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On 1/15/2013 5:15 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>> On Tue, 15 Jan 2013 16:28:02 -0600, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>> A "Component" is appropriate when you want to reuse the exact same
>>>> component/collection of individual geometry, multiple times (studs,
>>>> beams, stiles, rails, etc.)
>>>
>>> But then if you cut a stud, it cuts them all. ;-/ That's the way I
>>> was using them, then found that I was "making separate" every one
>>> anyway.
>>
>> Not necessarily, right click on the one component that you want to
>> change differently than others, and select "Make Unique".
>>
>> You can then change that one without changing the other like components.
>
> Right. Now you have two components. That takes more storage, no? No
> better than two groups?
>
>>>> Components can also attach themselves automatically to other geometry
>>>> (faces, horizontal faces only, etc) and they can also be easily stored
>>>> and reused in other files.
>>>
>>> That's an area that I'm totally lost; reuse. I just make "components"
>>> their own files and import them. There has to be a better way to make
>>> a "library" of components.
>>
>> 3D warehouse is a vast library of millions of components:
>>
>> http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/
>
> Right. I want that on my disk.
>
>>>> The difference can also be an important factor in file size and
>>>> performance of the model and computer:
>>>>
>>>> With "groups", each copy of a group added to the model is stored in the
>>>> model, thus multiple copies of a "group" add to the file size.
>>>
>>> I see that. The same deal if components are made separate.
>>
>> Nope ... there is only one single instance of each unique component in
>> SketchUp file ... all "copies" of that component are 'inserted
>> instances' of that unique component, and as such, are not stored in the
>> file as a copy, and therefore do not add to the file size.
>
> Right, but once you make one "unique" doesn't that make it a new
> component? ....
>
> ....Hmm, after trying it again, perhaps not.
>
>>>> With "components", there is only one of each unique component stored in
>>>> the model, all copies of that component inserted in a model are simply
>>>> an instance of that one stored component.
>>>
>>> I see that, too. This brings up another point. Of what use is the
>>> "name" of the component? Can it be edited?
>>
>> Sure ... right click|Entity Info|Double click "Definition Name" and
>> change away.
>
> Cool. Now what good is it?
>
>>>> NOTE: as stated previously in another thread ... it is well to note that
>>>> the use of multiple "nested" components in a model can indeed slow
>>>> SketchUp's performance ... regardless of file size.
>>>
>>> It sure makes work easier if one can hide them while working
>>> elsewhere, though. I always like to work in a hierarchy, if possible.
>>> Unfortunately, it looks like only about half of what's needed to make
>>> the hierarchy really work is in there. ...or at least tripped across,
>>> yet. ;-)
>>
>> In a word, "Layers" ... learn to use layers effectively and you will
>> find that everything that is needed is already there. :)
>
> I've run into "Layers". It hurt.
>
>> A word of caution with layers ... until you are absolutely proficient
>> with all aspects of the program, and I do meant obtain 'expert' status,
>> ONLY do your modeling on Layer0!!
>
> Well, that's where I am. ;-) I'll soon be back at it, though.
>
>> This is extremely important because geometry hidden and/or geometry/
>> elements/artifacts/ assigned to unseen layers can cause you all kinds of
>> grief when drawing and assembling models.
>
> Hmm, one day I'll understand what you just said. ;-) Are you saying
> that it's easy to get multiple objects living in the same space? ...or
> something more sinister?

Something else to play with. Often you need mirror images of a component,
some times mirror images of the mirror images. Copy the component, scale
it with a factor of "-1" and you get a mirror image without having to copy
and rotate. Now if you edit the original all mirrored copies update as a
mirror image also.

Foe example drawer sides. Draw one and copy then scale the opposite side.
If you add a groove for a bottom
or rabbet on the end the scale copy gets the changes where you want them
also.

Leon wrote:

>
> Something else to play with. Often you need mirror images of a
> component, some times mirror images of the mirror images. Copy the
> component, scale it with a factor of "-1" and you get a mirror image
> without having to copy and rotate. Now if you edit the original all
> mirrored copies update as a mirror image also.
>
> Foe example drawer sides. Draw one and copy then scale the opposite
> side. If you add a groove for a bottom
> or rabbet on the end the scale copy gets the changes where you want
> them also.

Oye! I've got to make the time to go back and copy all of the posts like
this into some kind of a library. I know I won't remember this crap when
the time comes that I need it. It all makes so much sense now, but...

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 1/15/2013 10:27 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>
>> Ok, but can you scale with a factor of -1 in one dimension only?
>
> Yes. Another handy scale feature is that you can hold down CTRL while
> scaling and just scale from the center of the geometry.


I have not done that. Holding the control key limits your choices to the
centers?

On 1/16/2013 10:02 AM, Bill wrote:
> Swingman wrote:
>> On 1/15/2013 10:27 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>
>>> Ok, but can you scale with a factor of -1 in one dimension only?
>>
>> Yes. Another handy scale feature is that you can hold down CTRL while
>> scaling and just scale from the center of the geometry.
>>
>
> How come if you scale a cube (or similar) with a factor of -1 overand
> over, it will just "mosey on down the road"? I mean, in general, what
> does this operation do to the figure and/or its position (besides "mosey
> it" ; ) )?

Doing a scale with the Scale Tool with a factor of -1, twice to the same
component, and you end up with a component the same as the original with
which you started ... except it is now twice the distance further along
the axis you scaled on, as the width of the component. :)

Here, you may find this helpful ...(be sure to look at the other
definition option links to the left of the main paragraph):

http://support.google.com/sketchup/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=94906&topic=2458207&ctx=topic

Keep in mind that "Flip Along", in the context menu when you right click
on an object, is another easy way to flip/mirror geometry, except that
you must keep in mind the AXIS upon which you want to flip, when using
that feature.

Many folks prefer to use Scale Tool|-1, so they don't have to trial and
error to get the same results with the Flip Along feature. :)

Personally, I prefer to use "Flip Along" for most instances, like with
rails and legs with mortises in them, etc.

YMMV ...

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://plus.google.com/114902129577517371552/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 1/15/2013 10:27 PM, [email protected] wrote:

> Ok, but can you scale with a factor of -1 in one dimension only?

Yes. Another handy scale feature is that you can hold down CTRL while
scaling and just scale from the center of the geometry.

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://plus.google.com/114902129577517371552/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On Tue, 15 Jan 2013 20:00:38 -0600, Leon <[email protected]> wrote:

><[email protected]> wrote:
>> On Tue, 15 Jan 2013 18:10:36 -0600, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> On 1/15/2013 5:15 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 15 Jan 2013 16:28:02 -0600, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>> A "Component" is appropriate when you want to reuse the exact same
>>>>> component/collection of individual geometry, multiple times (studs,
>>>>> beams, stiles, rails, etc.)
>>>>
>>>> But then if you cut a stud, it cuts them all. ;-/ That's the way I
>>>> was using them, then found that I was "making separate" every one
>>>> anyway.
>>>
>>> Not necessarily, right click on the one component that you want to
>>> change differently than others, and select "Make Unique".
>>>
>>> You can then change that one without changing the other like components.
>>
>> Right. Now you have two components. That takes more storage, no? No
>> better than two groups?
>>
>>>>> Components can also attach themselves automatically to other geometry
>>>>> (faces, horizontal faces only, etc) and they can also be easily stored
>>>>> and reused in other files.
>>>>
>>>> That's an area that I'm totally lost; reuse. I just make "components"
>>>> their own files and import them. There has to be a better way to make
>>>> a "library" of components.
>>>
>>> 3D warehouse is a vast library of millions of components:
>>>
>>> http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/
>>
>> Right. I want that on my disk.
>>
>>>>> The difference can also be an important factor in file size and
>>>>> performance of the model and computer:
>>>>>
>>>>> With "groups", each copy of a group added to the model is stored in the
>>>>> model, thus multiple copies of a "group" add to the file size.
>>>>
>>>> I see that. The same deal if components are made separate.
>>>
>>> Nope ... there is only one single instance of each unique component in
>>> SketchUp file ... all "copies" of that component are 'inserted
>>> instances' of that unique component, and as such, are not stored in the
>>> file as a copy, and therefore do not add to the file size.
>>
>> Right, but once you make one "unique" doesn't that make it a new
>> component? ....
>>
>> ....Hmm, after trying it again, perhaps not.
>>
>>>>> With "components", there is only one of each unique component stored in
>>>>> the model, all copies of that component inserted in a model are simply
>>>>> an instance of that one stored component.
>>>>
>>>> I see that, too. This brings up another point. Of what use is the
>>>> "name" of the component? Can it be edited?
>>>
>>> Sure ... right click|Entity Info|Double click "Definition Name" and
>>> change away.
>>
>> Cool. Now what good is it?
>>
>>>>> NOTE: as stated previously in another thread ... it is well to note that
>>>>> the use of multiple "nested" components in a model can indeed slow
>>>>> SketchUp's performance ... regardless of file size.
>>>>
>>>> It sure makes work easier if one can hide them while working
>>>> elsewhere, though. I always like to work in a hierarchy, if possible.
>>>> Unfortunately, it looks like only about half of what's needed to make
>>>> the hierarchy really work is in there. ...or at least tripped across,
>>>> yet. ;-)
>>>
>>> In a word, "Layers" ... learn to use layers effectively and you will
>>> find that everything that is needed is already there. :)
>>
>> I've run into "Layers". It hurt.
>>
>>> A word of caution with layers ... until you are absolutely proficient
>>> with all aspects of the program, and I do meant obtain 'expert' status,
>>> ONLY do your modeling on Layer0!!
>>
>> Well, that's where I am. ;-) I'll soon be back at it, though.
>>
>>> This is extremely important because geometry hidden and/or geometry/
>>> elements/artifacts/ assigned to unseen layers can cause you all kinds of
>>> grief when drawing and assembling models.
>>
>> Hmm, one day I'll understand what you just said. ;-) Are you saying
>> that it's easy to get multiple objects living in the same space? ...or
>> something more sinister?
>
>Something else to play with. Often you need mirror images of a component,
>some times mirror images of the mirror images. Copy the component, scale
>it with a factor of "-1" and you get a mirror image without having to copy
>and rotate. Now if you edit the original all mirrored copies update as a
>mirror image also.
>
>Foe example drawer sides. Draw one and copy then scale the opposite side.
>If you add a groove for a bottom
>or rabbet on the end the scale copy gets the changes where you want them
>also.

Ok, but can you scale with a factor of -1 in one dimension only? If
your groove doesn't go through, does it get it end up still in the
"back", say. IOW, if your drawer slide stops 2" short of the drawer
front, does the groove now stop 2" short of the drawer back, on the
top instead of the bottom (after flipping)?

On 1/16/2013 7:34 AM, Swingman wrote:
> On 1/15/2013 10:27 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>
>> Ok, but can you scale with a factor of -1 in one dimension only?
>
> Yes. Another handy scale feature is that you can hold down CTRL while
> scaling and just scale from the center of the geometry.

Damn ... meant to add to the above before posting that if want to scale
"uniformly" (all parts maintain their relative size), hold down the
SHIFT key while using the scale tool.


--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://plus.google.com/114902129577517371552/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 1/16/2013 7:52 AM, Leon wrote:
> Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On 1/15/2013 10:27 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>
>>> Ok, but can you scale with a factor of -1 in one dimension only?
>>
>> Yes. Another handy scale feature is that you can hold down CTRL while
>> scaling and just scale from the center of the geometry.
>
>
> I have not done that. Holding the control key limits your choices to the
> centers?

Holding down the CTRL key forces the scaling "from" the center of the
model/geometry you're scaling.

Try it ...

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://plus.google.com/114902129577517371552/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

[email protected] wrote:
> On Tue, 15 Jan 2013 20:00:38 -0600, Leon <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> On Tue, 15 Jan 2013 18:10:36 -0600, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 1/15/2013 5:15 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, 15 Jan 2013 16:28:02 -0600, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> A "Component" is appropriate when you want to reuse the exact same
>>>>>> component/collection of individual geometry, multiple times (studs,
>>>>>> beams, stiles, rails, etc.)
>>>>> But then if you cut a stud, it cuts them all. ;-/ That's the way I
>>>>> was using them, then found that I was "making separate" every one
>>>>> anyway.
>>>> Not necessarily, right click on the one component that you want to
>>>> change differently than others, and select "Make Unique".
>>>>
>>>> You can then change that one without changing the other like components.
>>> Right. Now you have two components. That takes more storage, no? No
>>> better than two groups?
>>>
>>>>>> Components can also attach themselves automatically to other geometry
>>>>>> (faces, horizontal faces only, etc) and they can also be easily stored
>>>>>> and reused in other files.
>>>>> That's an area that I'm totally lost; reuse. I just make "components"
>>>>> their own files and import them. There has to be a better way to make
>>>>> a "library" of components.
>>>> 3D warehouse is a vast library of millions of components:
>>>>
>>>> http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/
>>> Right. I want that on my disk.
>>>
>>>>>> The difference can also be an important factor in file size and
>>>>>> performance of the model and computer:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> With "groups", each copy of a group added to the model is stored in the
>>>>>> model, thus multiple copies of a "group" add to the file size.
>>>>> I see that. The same deal if components are made separate.
>>>> Nope ... there is only one single instance of each unique component in
>>>> SketchUp file ... all "copies" of that component are 'inserted
>>>> instances' of that unique component, and as such, are not stored in the
>>>> file as a copy, and therefore do not add to the file size.
>>> Right, but once you make one "unique" doesn't that make it a new
>>> component? ....
>>>
>>> ....Hmm, after trying it again, perhaps not.
>>>
>>>>>> With "components", there is only one of each unique component stored in
>>>>>> the model, all copies of that component inserted in a model are simply
>>>>>> an instance of that one stored component.
>>>>> I see that, too. This brings up another point. Of what use is the
>>>>> "name" of the component? Can it be edited?
>>>> Sure ... right click|Entity Info|Double click "Definition Name" and
>>>> change away.
>>> Cool. Now what good is it?
>>>
>>>>>> NOTE: as stated previously in another thread ... it is well to note that
>>>>>> the use of multiple "nested" components in a model can indeed slow
>>>>>> SketchUp's performance ... regardless of file size.
>>>>> It sure makes work easier if one can hide them while working
>>>>> elsewhere, though. I always like to work in a hierarchy, if possible.
>>>>> Unfortunately, it looks like only about half of what's needed to make
>>>>> the hierarchy really work is in there. ...or at least tripped across,
>>>>> yet. ;-)
>>>> In a word, "Layers" ... learn to use layers effectively and you will
>>>> find that everything that is needed is already there. :)
>>> I've run into "Layers". It hurt.
>>>
>>>> A word of caution with layers ... until you are absolutely proficient
>>>> with all aspects of the program, and I do meant obtain 'expert' status,
>>>> ONLY do your modeling on Layer0!!
>>> Well, that's where I am. ;-) I'll soon be back at it, though.
>>>
>>>> This is extremely important because geometry hidden and/or geometry/
>>>> elements/artifacts/ assigned to unseen layers can cause you all kinds of
>>>> grief when drawing and assembling models.
>>> Hmm, one day I'll understand what you just said. ;-) Are you saying
>>> that it's easy to get multiple objects living in the same space? ...or
>>> something more sinister?
>> Something else to play with. Often you need mirror images of a component,
>> some times mirror images of the mirror images. Copy the component, scale
>> it with a factor of "-1" and you get a mirror image without having to copy
>> and rotate. Now if you edit the original all mirrored copies update as a
>> mirror image also.
>>
>> Foe example drawer sides. Draw one and copy then scale the opposite side.
>> If you add a groove for a bottom
>> or rabbet on the end the scale copy gets the changes where you want them
>> also.
> Ok, but can you scale with a factor of -1 in one dimension only? If
> your groove doesn't go through, does it get it end up still in the
> "back", say. IOW, if your drawer slide stops 2" short of the drawer
> front, does the groove now stop 2" short of the drawer back, on the
> top instead of the bottom (after flipping)?

Maybe you should try it, and tell us?
It would just be a 10 minutelearning-experiment, right?
To be honest, some of my attempts at using this feature have
not been successes(in those case, I've given-in and worked around it).
Ithink
I'm getting closer to "getting it", butI am not at a level to dispense
advice.
IIRC,I assessed my SU-Rating as 2 out of 10. : )

Cheers,
Bill

Bill wrote:

> I think I'm getting closer to "getting it", butI am not at a level to
> dispense
> advice. IIRC,I assessed my SU-Rating as 2 out of 10. : )
>
> Cheers,
> Bill

I hear ya! After finally succeeding at creating a model that actually
depicts what I want it to, and mostly works (you can rotate it 360 degrees
without too many anomolies...), I think I've hit a rating above 0. There
are some quirks that I don't yet understand in my model, but I'm still
farting around to see if I can figure some of them out on my own. It most
certainly requires you look at this in a different way than just drawing the
idea. And... too often, once I figure some quirk out, I've tried so many
different things that I can't remember which one worked!

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

Mike Marlow wrote:
> Bill wrote:
>
>> I think I'm getting closer to "getting it", butI am not at a level to
>> dispense
>> advice. IIRC,I assessed my SU-Rating as 2 out of 10. : )
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Bill
>
> I hear ya! After finally succeeding at creating a model that actually
> depicts what I want it to, and mostly works (you can rotate it 360
> degrees without too many anomolies...), I think I've hit a rating
> above 0. There are some quirks that I don't yet understand in my
> model, but I'm still farting around to see if I can figure some of
> them out on my own. It most certainly requires you look at this in a
> different way than just drawing the idea. And... too often, once I
> figure some quirk out, I've tried so many different things that I
> can't remember which one worked!

Those would be anomalies. Very similar to anomolies, only different...

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

Swingman wrote:
> On 1/15/2013 10:27 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>
>> Ok, but can you scale with a factor of -1 in one dimension only?
>
> Yes. Another handy scale feature is that you can hold down CTRL while
> scaling and just scale from the center of the geometry.
>

How come if you scale a cube (or similar) with a factor of -1 overand
over, it will just "mosey on down the road"? I mean, in general, what
does this operation do to the figure and/or its position (besides "mosey
it" ; ) )?

Swingman wrote:
> On 1/16/2013 10:02 AM, Bill wrote:
>> Swingman wrote:
>>> On 1/15/2013 10:27 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>
>>>> Ok, but can you scale with a factor of -1 in one dimension only?
>>>
>>> Yes. Another handy scale feature is that you can hold down CTRL while
>>> scaling and just scale from the center of the geometry.
>>>
>>
>> How come if you scale a cube (or similar) with a factor of -1 overand
>> over, it will just "mosey on down the road"? I mean, in general, what
>> does this operation do to the figure and/or its position (besides "mosey
>> it" ; ) )?
>
> Doing a scale with the Scale Tool with a factor of -1, twice to the
> same component, and you end up with a component the same as the
> original with which you started ... except it is now twice the
> distance further along the axis you scaled on, as the width of the
> component. :)
>
> Here, you may find this helpful ...(be sure to look at the other
> definition option links to the left of the main paragraph):
>
> http://support.google.com/sketchup/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=94906&topic=2458207&ctx=topic
>
>
> Keep in mind that "Flip Along", in the context menu when you right
> click on an object, is another easy way to flip/mirror geometry,
> except that you must keep in mind the AXIS upon which you want to
> flip, when using that feature.
>
> Many folks prefer to use Scale Tool|-1, so they don't have to trial
> and error to get the same results with the Flip Along feature. :)


I never tried Flip Along. It's looks really handy for everyone
designing symetrical projects.

For all the new users reading, it should be pointed out that you can do
a LOT with just a few basic SU features.





>
> Personally, I prefer to use "Flip Along" for most instances, like with
> rails and legs with mortises in them, etc.
>
> YMMV ...
>

Bill wrote:

>
> For all the new users reading, it should be pointed out that you can
> do a LOT with just a few basic SU features.
>

Indeed you can. Experimenting with some of the features reveals just how
much you can do. Thank god for "undo"! Some of these features are going to
require more thinking about and/or more playing with than I have time for
right now.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On 1/16/2013 7:54 AM, Swingman wrote:
> On 1/16/2013 7:52 AM, Leon wrote:
>> Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> On 1/15/2013 10:27 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>
>>>> Ok, but can you scale with a factor of -1 in one dimension only?
>>>
>>> Yes. Another handy scale feature is that you can hold down CTRL while
>>> scaling and just scale from the center of the geometry.
>>
>>
>> I have not done that. Holding the control key limits your choices to the
>> centers?
>
> Holding down the CTRL key forces the scaling "from" the center of the
> model/geometry you're scaling.
>
> Try it ...

Also, another neat trick ... if you want to flip your model upside down
on the blue axis with the scale tool, instead of on the red axis as you
described when mirroring:

hold the SHIFT key, start your scale, then enter -1

I don't think that one is documented, but I found it when screwing
around a few years back. :)

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KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

sdf

On 1/8/2013 12:52 PM, Mike M wrote:
> I'm just getting comfortable with
> the 3D aspect of drawing and use of the most common drawing tools. I'm
> slowly moving forward but at least the frustratiion is still very low.

Two most frustrating things in SU:

~ When things you draw stick together ... solution: make sure you make
everything you draw either a "component" or "group" _before_ you draw
something else that touches it.

~ Moving one component/group from a different part of the screen to
place it against another component/group ... solution: when you find
out, let me know too! ;)

<just kidding>

Although the latter does often bite most of in the butt, even with a lot
of experience, there is a feature in SU know as the "inference" engine,
which can be a big help when trying to join components/groups drawn on a
different plane/axis. Locking (constraint) this inference with a
keystroke can often help when moving objects around:

http://support.google.com/sketchup/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=70142

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KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On Tue, 08 Jan 2013 09:11:55 -0600, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:

>On 1/8/2013 1:34 AM, Mike M wrote:
>
>> Your so far ahead of me. 8-) I'm still back on the tutorials trying
>> to get the basics down.
>
>Have heart ... you really only need to know about 30%, or less, of SU's
>capability in order to fully utilize the program for woodworking projects.
>
>Many folks simply miss the reality of learning software that can
>increase your productivity, thinking that you have to become a
>proverbial "expert" with the software to get any benefit.
>
>That is simply not true ... all your need to do to is master those
>elements that allow you to use the software to suit your particular needs.
>
>Just learn to draw the damned parts to your project individually ... a
>woodworking project is mostly nothing more than a collection of simply
>"boards", after all.
>
>That perceived "uphill battle" is not nearly as challenging ... IOW,
>learn to draw a damned tubafour and you're 90% there. :)

Understand what your saying & it was that way with Autocadd, I learned
how to do what I needed for doing electrical plans and never was an
expert. I'm still under the 30%. I'm just getting comfortable with
the 3D aspect of drawing and use of the most common drawing tools. I'm
slowly moving forward but at least the frustratiion is still very low.

Mike M

"Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Leon wrote:
>
>>
>> Something else to play with. Often you need mirror images of a
>> component, some times mirror images of the mirror images. Copy the
>> component, scale it with a factor of "-1" and you get a mirror image
>> without having to copy and rotate. Now if you edit the original all
>> mirrored copies update as a mirror image also.
>>
>> Foe example drawer sides. Draw one and copy then scale the opposite
>> side. If you add a groove for a bottom
>> or rabbet on the end the scale copy gets the changes where you want
>> them also.
>
> Oye! I've got to make the time to go back and copy all of the posts like
> this into some kind of a library. I know I won't remember this crap when
> the time comes that I need it. It all makes so much sense now, but...


Mike, let me tell you a secret.. I start every one of my drawings with the
same drawing. The name of that drawing/file is 1Start.skp and it is write
protected so that I don't accidentally delete it. This drawing is nothing
more than hints and reminders of things that I don't use often and that I
sometimes have trouble remembering. It may just be a short note or a simple
illustration to serve as a reminder. I see the hints every time I start a
new drawing by beginning with this file. Basically I can't misplace my
hints and notes.

When I open that drawing/ file I select everything, hit delete, and begin
my actual drawing and save as another unique file name.

On 1/15/2013 11:06 PM, Leon wrote:
> Mike, let me tell you a secret.. I start every one of my drawings with the
> same drawing. The name of that drawing/file is 1Start.skp and it is write
> protected so that I don't accidentally delete it. This drawing is nothing
> more than hints and reminders of things that I don't use often and that I
> sometimes have trouble remembering. It may just be a short note or a simple
> illustration to serve as a reminder. I see the hints every time I start a
> new drawing by beginning with this file. Basically I can't misplace my
> hints and notes.

Alternately, you can save that file as a Template, with components and
text, and you can either set it as default to open every time just by
opening SU, or chose it from Window|Preference.

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KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

Leon wrote:

> Mike, let me tell you a secret.. I start every one of my drawings
> with the same drawing. The name of that drawing/file is 1Start.skp
> and it is write protected so that I don't accidentally delete it.
> This drawing is nothing more than hints and reminders of things that
> I don't use often and that I sometimes have trouble remembering. It
> may just be a short note or a simple illustration to serve as a
> reminder. I see the hints every time I start a new drawing by
> beginning with this file. Basically I can't misplace my hints and
> notes.
>
> When I open that drawing/ file I select everything, hit delete, and
> begin my actual drawing and save as another unique file name.

I like that idea Leon. Think I'm gonna steal it.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On Tue, 15 Jan 2013 16:28:02 -0600, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:

>On 1/15/2013 3:33 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Tue, 08 Jan 2013 13:30:57 -0600, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> ~ When things you draw stick together ... solution: make sure you make
>>> everything you draw either a "component" or "group" _before_ you draw
>>> something else that touches it.
>>
>> OK, now I gotta ask...
>>
>> I've been using SU for some time and am reasonably proficient (>30%
>> mark). What is the difference between a component and a group? ISTM
>> that they're two (different) ways of doing exactly the same thing.
>> When would I use one over the other?
>
>Hard to beat this definition, so I'll post the link rather than trying
>to paraphrase it:
>
>http://www.sketchuptutorials.net/2011/10/26/sketchup-glossary-groups-versus-components/
>
>Basically "Groups" are useful to logically group a single collection of
>individual geometry, like assembling six faces into a box, a brick, etc.
>
>A "Component" is appropriate when you want to reuse the exact same
>component/collection of individual geometry, multiple times (studs,
>beams, stiles, rails, etc.)

But then if you cut a stud, it cuts them all. ;-/ That's the way I
was using them, then found that I was "making separate" every one
anyway.

>Components can also attach themselves automatically to other geometry
>(faces, horizontal faces only, etc) and they can also be easily stored
>and reused in other files.

That's an area that I'm totally lost; reuse. I just make "components"
their own files and import them. There has to be a better way to make
a "library" of components.

>The difference can also be an important factor in file size and
>performance of the model and computer:
>
>With "groups", each copy of a group added to the model is stored in the
>model, thus multiple copies of a "group" add to the file size.

I see that. The same deal if components are made separate.

>With "components", there is only one of each unique component stored in
>the model, all copies of that component inserted in a model are simply
>an instance of that one stored component.

I see that, too. This brings up another point. Of what use is the
"name" of the component? Can it be edited?

>NOTE: as stated previously in another thread ... it is well to note that
>the use of multiple "nested" components in a model can indeed slow
>SketchUp's performance ... regardless of file size.

It sure makes work easier if one can hide them while working
elsewhere, though. I always like to work in a hierarchy, if possible.
Unfortunately, it looks like only about half of what's needed to make
the hierarchy really work is in there. ...or at least tripped across,
yet. ;-)

[email protected] wrote:
> On Tue, 15 Jan 2013 16:28:02 -0600, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On 1/15/2013 3:33 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>> On Tue, 08 Jan 2013 13:30:57 -0600, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> ~ When things you draw stick together ... solution: make sure you make
>>>> everything you draw either a "component" or "group" _before_ you draw
>>>> something else that touches it.
>>> OK, now I gotta ask...
>>>
>>> I've been using SU for some time and am reasonably proficient (>30%
>>> mark). What is the difference between a component and a group? ISTM
>>> that they're two (different) ways of doing exactly the same thing.
>>> When would I use one over the other?
>> Hard to beat this definition, so I'll post the link rather than trying
>> to paraphrase it:
>>
>> http://www.sketchuptutorials.net/2011/10/26/sketchup-glossary-groups-versus-components/
>>
>> Basically "Groups" are useful to logically group a single collection of
>> individual geometry, like assembling six faces into a box, a brick, etc.
>>
>> A "Component" is appropriate when you want to reuse the exact same
>> component/collection of individual geometry, multiple times (studs,
>> beams, stiles, rails, etc.)
> But then if you cut a stud, it cuts them all. ;-/ That's the way I
> was using them, then found that I was "making separate" every one
> anyway.
Do you mean "Make Unique"--that will allow you to change the properties
of only
a partticular instance of a component.

On 1/15/2013 5:15 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Tue, 15 Jan 2013 16:28:02 -0600, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:


>> A "Component" is appropriate when you want to reuse the exact same
>> component/collection of individual geometry, multiple times (studs,
>> beams, stiles, rails, etc.)
>
> But then if you cut a stud, it cuts them all. ;-/ That's the way I
> was using them, then found that I was "making separate" every one
> anyway.

Not necessarily, right click on the one component that you want to
change differently than others, and select "Make Unique".

You can then change that one without changing the other like components.

>> Components can also attach themselves automatically to other geometry
>> (faces, horizontal faces only, etc) and they can also be easily stored
>> and reused in other files.
>
> That's an area that I'm totally lost; reuse. I just make "components"
> their own files and import them. There has to be a better way to make
> a "library" of components.

3D warehouse is a vast library of millions of components:

http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/

>> The difference can also be an important factor in file size and
>> performance of the model and computer:
>>
>> With "groups", each copy of a group added to the model is stored in the
>> model, thus multiple copies of a "group" add to the file size.
>
> I see that. The same deal if components are made separate.

Nope ... there is only one single instance of each unique component in
SketchUp file ... all "copies" of that component are 'inserted
instances' of that unique component, and as such, are not stored in the
file as a copy, and therefore do not add to the file size.

>> With "components", there is only one of each unique component stored in
>> the model, all copies of that component inserted in a model are simply
>> an instance of that one stored component.
>
> I see that, too. This brings up another point. Of what use is the
> "name" of the component? Can it be edited?

Sure ... right click|Entity Info|Double click "Definition Name" and
change away.

>> NOTE: as stated previously in another thread ... it is well to note that
>> the use of multiple "nested" components in a model can indeed slow
>> SketchUp's performance ... regardless of file size.
>
> It sure makes work easier if one can hide them while working
> elsewhere, though. I always like to work in a hierarchy, if possible.
> Unfortunately, it looks like only about half of what's needed to make
> the hierarchy really work is in there. ...or at least tripped across,
> yet. ;-)

In a word, "Layers" ... learn to use layers effectively and you will
find that everything that is needed is already there. :)

A word of caution with layers ... until you are absolutely proficient
with all aspects of the program, and I do meant obtain 'expert' status,
ONLY do your modeling on Layer0!!

This is extremely important because geometry hidden and/or geometry/
elements/artifacts/ assigned to unseen layers can cause you all kinds of
grief when drawing and assembling models.

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Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
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http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 1/15/2013 5:29 PM, Bill wrote:

> Do you mean "Make Unique"--that will allow you to change the properties
> of only a partticular instance of a component.

+1

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KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On Tue, 15 Jan 2013 18:29:51 -0500, Bill <[email protected]>
wrote:

>[email protected] wrote:
>> On Tue, 15 Jan 2013 16:28:02 -0600, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> On 1/15/2013 3:33 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 08 Jan 2013 13:30:57 -0600, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> ~ When things you draw stick together ... solution: make sure you make
>>>>> everything you draw either a "component" or "group" _before_ you draw
>>>>> something else that touches it.
>>>> OK, now I gotta ask...
>>>>
>>>> I've been using SU for some time and am reasonably proficient (>30%
>>>> mark). What is the difference between a component and a group? ISTM
>>>> that they're two (different) ways of doing exactly the same thing.
>>>> When would I use one over the other?
>>> Hard to beat this definition, so I'll post the link rather than trying
>>> to paraphrase it:
>>>
>>> http://www.sketchuptutorials.net/2011/10/26/sketchup-glossary-groups-versus-components/
>>>
>>> Basically "Groups" are useful to logically group a single collection of
>>> individual geometry, like assembling six faces into a box, a brick, etc.
>>>
>>> A "Component" is appropriate when you want to reuse the exact same
>>> component/collection of individual geometry, multiple times (studs,
>>> beams, stiles, rails, etc.)
>> But then if you cut a stud, it cuts them all. ;-/ That's the way I
>> was using them, then found that I was "making separate" every one
>> anyway.
>Do you mean "Make Unique"--that will allow you to change the properties
>of only
>a partticular instance of a component.
>
Yeah, that's the one. I'm sorta out of practice (my shop is still
packed).

On Tue, 15 Jan 2013 18:10:36 -0600, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:

>On 1/15/2013 5:15 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Tue, 15 Jan 2013 16:28:02 -0600, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>> A "Component" is appropriate when you want to reuse the exact same
>>> component/collection of individual geometry, multiple times (studs,
>>> beams, stiles, rails, etc.)
>>
>> But then if you cut a stud, it cuts them all. ;-/ That's the way I
>> was using them, then found that I was "making separate" every one
>> anyway.
>
>Not necessarily, right click on the one component that you want to
>change differently than others, and select "Make Unique".
>
>You can then change that one without changing the other like components.

Right. Now you have two components. That takes more storage, no? No
better than two groups?

>>> Components can also attach themselves automatically to other geometry
>>> (faces, horizontal faces only, etc) and they can also be easily stored
>>> and reused in other files.
>>
>> That's an area that I'm totally lost; reuse. I just make "components"
>> their own files and import them. There has to be a better way to make
>> a "library" of components.
>
>3D warehouse is a vast library of millions of components:
>
>http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/

Right. I want that on my disk.

>>> The difference can also be an important factor in file size and
>>> performance of the model and computer:
>>>
>>> With "groups", each copy of a group added to the model is stored in the
>>> model, thus multiple copies of a "group" add to the file size.
>>
>> I see that. The same deal if components are made separate.
>
>Nope ... there is only one single instance of each unique component in
>SketchUp file ... all "copies" of that component are 'inserted
>instances' of that unique component, and as such, are not stored in the
>file as a copy, and therefore do not add to the file size.

Right, but once you make one "unique" doesn't that make it a new
component? ....

....Hmm, after trying it again, perhaps not.

>>> With "components", there is only one of each unique component stored in
>>> the model, all copies of that component inserted in a model are simply
>>> an instance of that one stored component.
>>
>> I see that, too. This brings up another point. Of what use is the
>> "name" of the component? Can it be edited?
>
>Sure ... right click|Entity Info|Double click "Definition Name" and
>change away.

Cool. Now what good is it?

>>> NOTE: as stated previously in another thread ... it is well to note that
>>> the use of multiple "nested" components in a model can indeed slow
>>> SketchUp's performance ... regardless of file size.
>>
>> It sure makes work easier if one can hide them while working
>> elsewhere, though. I always like to work in a hierarchy, if possible.
>> Unfortunately, it looks like only about half of what's needed to make
>> the hierarchy really work is in there. ...or at least tripped across,
>> yet. ;-)
>
>In a word, "Layers" ... learn to use layers effectively and you will
>find that everything that is needed is already there. :)

I've run into "Layers". It hurt.

>A word of caution with layers ... until you are absolutely proficient
>with all aspects of the program, and I do meant obtain 'expert' status,
>ONLY do your modeling on Layer0!!

Well, that's where I am. ;-) I'll soon be back at it, though.

>This is extremely important because geometry hidden and/or geometry/
>elements/artifacts/ assigned to unseen layers can cause you all kinds of
>grief when drawing and assembling models.

Hmm, one day I'll understand what you just said. ;-) Are you saying
that it's easy to get multiple objects living in the same space? ...or
something more sinister?

<[email protected]> w just said. ;-) Are you saying
>>> that it's easy to get multiple objects living in the same space? ...or
>>> something more sinister?
>>
>> Something else to play with. Often you need mirror images of a component,
>> some times mirror images of the mirror images. Copy the component, scale
>> it with a factor of "-1" and you get a mirror image without having to copy
>> and rotate. Now if you edit the original all mirrored copies update as a
>> mirror image also.
>>
>> Foe example drawer sides. Draw one and copy then scale the opposite side.
>> If you add a groove for a bottom
>> or rabbet on the end the scale copy gets the changes where you want them
>> also.
>
> Ok, but can you scale with a factor of -1 in one dimension only? If
> your groove doesn't go through, does it get it end up still in the
> "back", say. IOW, if your drawer slide stops 2" short of the drawer
> front, does the groove now stop 2" short of the drawer back, on the
> top instead of the bottom (after flipping)?

Select the component and then click in the scale icon. You will see small
cubes form around the edges and corners and middle ff the sides. Grab the
cube in the middle of a side and drag it towards the center to indicate the
direction that you want to reverse the component. Then enter "-1". Now
everything changed on that component will show up as a mirror image on the
other component, either one.

If your drawer side grove stops 2" short of the back the scaled component
side will also have that grove stopped 2" Short. You literally get a mirror
copy.

You can scale in any direction, you can do the same for the front and back
of the drawer. It all depends on which cube you grab/ click on and drag.
Experiment with it. I never draw opposite sided components, I copy and
scale. Now if you need to add a little extra to the scaled copy or the
original, right click, make unique, and make your modifications. The
mirroring will not continue from that point.