I made my panels for my TV stand. I have never made solid panels for a
project (usually plywood for and application like this.)
My panels are 18.5" wide by 14.5" long. They are 0.34" thick and need to
fit into a 0.25" groove (I made them a little thicker).
I was going to use a raised panel bit to bevel the back so the panel fits,
but I want it to fit deeper in the groove without being too thin. So I
decided to rabbet the panels all the way around using a rabbeting bit in the
router.
My question: For panels this wide and thick, how much should I rabbet in
each side AND how much of the rabbet should I sink in the groove. If I
sink the panel all the way until it buts up against the frame all the way
around, expansion would push the frame apart.
Please help a neophyte...
Project here: http://www.garagewoodworks.com/TV_Stand.htm
--
Brian
www.garagewoodworks.com
"In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king."
Desiderius Erasmus
"Garage_Woodworks" <.@.> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I made my panels for my TV stand. I have never made solid panels for a
>project (usually plywood for and application like this.)
>
> My panels are 18.5" wide by 14.5" long. They are 0.34" thick and need to
> fit into a 0.25" groove (I made them a little thicker).
>
> I was going to use a raised panel bit to bevel the back so the panel fits,
> but I want it to fit deeper in the groove without being too thin. So I
> decided to rabbet the panels all the way around using a rabbeting bit in
> the router.
>
> My question: For panels this wide and thick, how much should I rabbet in
> each side AND how much of the rabbet should I sink in the groove. If I
> sink the panel all the way until it buts up against the frame all the way
> around, expansion would push the frame apart.
>
> Please help a neophyte...
Cut the panel to be 1/2" narrower and shorter than the actual distance
between the bottom of all the groves/dado's in the rails and stiles. Then
cut the rabbet on those panels to a width about the depth of groves/dado's
in the rails and stiles are deep. If the depth of the groves is 1/2" cut
the rabbet 1/2"
Remember the panels will be 1/4" short on all sides of reaching the bottom
of the rail and stile groves.
This should result in a panel that will sink to the bottom of the groove in
the bottom rail of the completed panel. HOWEVER use "Space Balls" in all
the groves to keep the panels centered in the rail and stile frame.
Space Balls are small black rubber balls that are about 1/4" in diameter and
maintain equal spacing around the perimeter of the floating panel and the
bottoms of all the groves in the rails and stiles. Lee Valley should have
the "Space Balls".
On Jun 10, 8:30=A0am, "Garage_Woodworks" <.@.> wrote:
> "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...
>
> > Cut the panel to be 1/2" narrower and shorter than the actual distance
> > between the bottom of all the groves/dado's in the rails and stiles. =A0=
Then
> > cut the rabbet on those panels to a width about the depth of
> > groves/dado's in the rails and stiles are deep. =A0If the depth of the
> > groves is 1/2" cut the rabbet 1/2"
>
> Won't the shoulder of the panel be flush with the frame all the way around=
,
> even though the tongue of the rabett is not bottoming out?
>
> Based on what I have extacted from these exchanges so far, it looks like I=
> need to cut the rabetts 1/16" larger on the two sides that will
> expand-contract.?.
>
> > Remember the panels will be 1/4" short on all sides of reaching the bott=
om
> > of the rail and stile groves.
>
> > This should result in a panel that will sink to the bottom of the groove=
> > in the bottom rail of the completed panel. =A0HOWEVER use "Space Balls" =
in
> > all the groves to keep the panels centered in the rail and stile frame.
>
> Not really a concern here. =A0These are flat panels with =A0the rabett in =
the
> inside. =A0It will always appear 'centered' from the outside.
>
Yes, the panel will 'appear' centered, but during the finishing
process, you can have 'shadows' from either the stain or final
finish... unless you plan to pre-finish the panel before insertion.
"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:kvl3k.1365$8q2.198@trnddc02...
>> My panels are 18.5" wide by 14.5" long. They are 0.34" thick and need
>> to fit into a 0.25" groove (I made them a little thicker).
>
> You need to spend more time watching Norm, (If and when your PBS station
> isn't begging).<G>
I haven't watched a show in over a year. Unfortionately...
> Cutting those rabbets is one of his tricks for handling metric size ply
> and fractional router bits.
>
> Make the rabbet cut such that the 1/4" tongue is about 1/16 from bottoming
> out in the groove.
How much should I leave between the shoulder of the rabbet and the frame?
>
> BTW, this is a natural for a dado, if you have one.
I have one, but its a home depot POS.
>
> Have fun.
>
> Lew
>
>
"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:y6m3k.4640$kW2.311@trnddc01...
>
> "Garage_Woodworks" wrote:
>
>> How much should I leave between the shoulder of the rabbet and the frame?
>
> You lost me.
Sorry, my fault. Let me try and clarify:
If the frame is touching the left rabett shoulderand right rabbet shoulder
expansion will blow out the frame.
> If the tongue end floats in the frame,
I guess this might be a better way to ask this qesition. How much 'float'
should I have with regard to rabett shoulders on each side.
> the panel rabbet shoulder will automatically butt up against the frame.
> Based on how you build the frame, there will automatically be some panel
> float.
>
> When you clamp the frame, clamp the corners only.
>
> As long as the tongue is a dry fit in the frame, you should be good to go.
>
> BTW, is the frame 3/4"?
No. Please see here:
http://www.garagewoodworks.com/TV_Stand.htm
>
> Will the groove in the frame be centered in the frame?
>
> Lew
>
>
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Cut the panel to be 1/2" narrower and shorter than the actual distance
> between the bottom of all the groves/dado's in the rails and stiles. Then
> cut the rabbet on those panels to a width about the depth of
> groves/dado's in the rails and stiles are deep. If the depth of the
> groves is 1/2" cut the rabbet 1/2"
Won't the shoulder of the panel be flush with the frame all the way around,
even though the tongue of the rabett is not bottoming out?
Based on what I have extacted from these exchanges so far, it looks like I
need to cut the rabetts 1/16" larger on the two sides that will
expand-contract.?.
> Remember the panels will be 1/4" short on all sides of reaching the bottom
> of the rail and stile groves.
>
> This should result in a panel that will sink to the bottom of the groove
> in the bottom rail of the completed panel. HOWEVER use "Space Balls" in
> all the groves to keep the panels centered in the rail and stile frame.
Not really a concern here. These are flat panels with the rabett in the
inside. It will always appear 'centered' from the outside.
Good tip though. I haven't heard of space balls before.
>
> Space Balls are small black rubber balls that are about 1/4" in diameter
> and maintain equal spacing around the perimeter of the floating panel and
> the bottoms of all the groves in the rails and stiles. Lee Valley should
> have the "Space Balls".
>
"Garage_Woodworks" <.@.> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
Thank you to those that responded. I finished the panels and they came out
ok. I will be finishing the panels first, so that centering the panels is a
non-issue. I am going to look into getting some space balls for future
projects.
The panels are book matched (first time doing this). I found it difficult
on some of the panel sections to keep the book match continuity. Maybe I
had to plane too much from the panels after resawing?? Not sure. I need to
work on this. Not too bad for a first book matched panel though.
http://www.garagewoodworks.com/TV_Stand.htm
"Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "mac davis" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> >Space Balls are small black rubber balls that are about 1/4" in diameter
> and
>
>> Last LV catalog I saw had what I think could be better than Space Balls..
>
> Here's the rubber spacers Mac is talking about.
> http://www.leevalley.com/hardware/page.aspx?c=1&p=58675&cat=53&ap=1
Thank you. I put these in my too purchase folder!
>
>
On Jun 10, 8:30=A0am, "Garage_Woodworks" <.@.> wrote:
> "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...
>
> > Cut the panel to be 1/2" narrower and shorter than the actual distance
> > between the bottom of all the groves/dado's in the rails and stiles. =A0=
Then
> > cut the rabbet on those panels to a width about the depth of
> > groves/dado's in the rails and stiles are deep. =A0If the depth of the
> > groves is 1/2" cut the rabbet 1/2"
>
> Won't the shoulder of the panel be flush with the frame all the way around=
,
> even though the tongue of the rabett is not bottoming out?
>
> Based on what I have extacted from these exchanges so far, it looks like I=
> need to cut the rabetts 1/16" larger on the two sides that will
> expand-contract.?.
>
> > Remember the panels will be 1/4" short on all sides of reaching the bott=
om
> > of the rail and stile groves.
>
> > This should result in a panel that will sink to the bottom of the groove=
> > in the bottom rail of the completed panel. =A0HOWEVER use "Space Balls" =
in
> > all the groves to keep the panels centered in the rail and stile frame.
>
> Not really a concern here. =A0These are flat panels with =A0the rabett in =
the
> inside. =A0It will always appear 'centered' from the outside.
>
> Good tip though. =A0I haven't heard of space balls before.
>
>
>
> > Space Balls are small black rubber balls that are about 1/4" in diameter=
> > and maintain equal spacing around the perimeter of the floating panel an=
d
> > the bottoms of all the groves in the rails and stiles. =A0Lee Valley sho=
uld
> > have the "Space Balls".
Don't bother with SpaceBalls. Take a piece of closed cell cord, such
as the material used to hold screen in a window screen and cut 1/4"
pieces off and stuff those in the grooves at the corners. They will
centre the panel automatically and offer just the right resistance/
spring action.
Eight in total, two in each corner.
"mac davis" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >Space Balls are small black rubber balls that are about 1/4" in diameter
and
> Last LV catalog I saw had what I think could be better than Space Balls..
Here's the rubber spacers Mac is talking about.
http://www.leevalley.com/hardware/page.aspx?c=1&p=58675&cat=53&ap=1
On Tue, 10 Jun 2008 07:03:08 -0500, "Leon" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
>Space Balls are small black rubber balls that are about 1/4" in diameter and
>maintain equal spacing around the perimeter of the floating panel and the
>bottoms of all the groves in the rails and stiles. Lee Valley should have
>the "Space Balls".
>
Last LV catalog I saw had what I think could be better than Space Balls..
They're sort of football shaped..
mac
Please remove splinters before emailing
"Garage_Woodworks" wrote:
> I guess this might be a better way to ask this qesition. How much
> 'float' should I have with regard to rabett shoulders on each side.
If the panel is 1/16" smaller all the way around and you will be good
to go.
> No. Please see here:
> http://www.garagewoodworks.com/TV_Stand.htm
I did and I'm still lost.
It appears the exterior side of the panel will provide a flat panel
appearance while the rabbet shoulder will be hidden on the inside?
If so, the panel will float in the frame grooves and the shoulder
clearance can be anything you want, or am I missing something?
Lew
"Garage_Woodworks" <.@.> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Cut the panel to be 1/2" narrower and shorter than the actual distance
>> between the bottom of all the groves/dado's in the rails and stiles.
>> Then cut the rabbet on those panels to a width about the depth of
>> groves/dado's in the rails and stiles are deep. If the depth of the
>> groves is 1/2" cut the rabbet 1/2"
>
> Won't the shoulder of the panel be flush with the frame all the way
> around, even though the tongue of the rabett is not bottoming out?
>
> Based on what I have extacted from these exchanges so far, it looks like I
> need to cut the rabetts 1/16" larger on the two sides that will
> expand-contract.?.
The tongue should be "just under" 1/4 the depth of the groove. The 1/4"
space balls will take up the remainder of the space. The rabbet should be
about 1/4 exposed to allow for expansion. If you cut the panel to be 1/2"
shorter and narrower than the assebled rail and stiles groves only they
should be 1/4" short of reaching the bottom of the groves. Then you want
the tongue of the rabbet to have about 1/4" exposeure.
>
>
>> Remember the panels will be 1/4" short on all sides of reaching the
>> bottom of the rail and stile groves.
>>
>> This should result in a panel that will sink to the bottom of the groove
>> in the bottom rail of the completed panel. HOWEVER use "Space Balls" in
>> all the groves to keep the panels centered in the rail and stile frame.
>
> Not really a concern here. These are flat panels with the rabett in the
> inside. It will always appear 'centered' from the outside.
It can be a concern! IF you stain the panel or finish the panel after
assembling the panel the unstained or unfinished sections hidden in the
groves will be exposed if the panel moves or contracts from seasonal
changes. And you do not want the panel to be the same size of the distance
between the bottoms of opposite groves. Remember you need to allow for
expansion when using solid wood panels. Plywood is not so important in this
respect.
>
> Good tip though. I haven't heard of space balls before.
>
>>
>> Space Balls are small black rubber balls that are about 1/4" in diameter
>> and maintain equal spacing around the perimeter of the floating panel and
>> the bottoms of all the groves in the rails and stiles. Lee Valley should
>> have the "Space Balls".
>>
>
>
On Jun 9, 9:00=A0pm, "Garage_Woodworks" <.@.> wrote:
> I made my panels for my TV stand. =A0I have never made solid panels for a
> project (usually plywood for and application like this.)
>
> My panels are 18.5" wide by 14.5" long. =A0 They are 0.34" thick and need =
to
> fit into a 0.25" groove (I made them a little thicker).
>
> I was going to use a raised panel bit to bevel the back so the panel fits,=
> but I want it to fit deeper in the groove without being too thin. =A0So I
> decided to rabbet the panels all the way around using a rabbeting bit in t=
he
> router.
>
> My question: =A0For panels this wide and thick, how much should I rabbet i=
n
> each side AND how much of the rabbet should I sink in the groove. =A0 If I=
> sink the panel all the way until it buts up against the frame all the way
> around, expansion would push the frame apart.
>
> Please help a neophyte...
>
> Project here: =A0http://www.garagewoodworks.com/TV_Stand.htm
>
> --
> Brianwww.garagewoodworks.com
>
> "In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king."
> Desiderius Erasmus
ever heard of space balls?
These are little round rubber balls places inside the grove that the
panel rest against.. as if expands is presses the balls flat as is
shrinks it holds the pnels in place...
Randy
http://nokeswoodworks.com
"Garage_Woodworks" wrote:
> My panels are 18.5" wide by 14.5" long. They are 0.34" thick and
> need to fit into a 0.25" groove (I made them a little thicker).
You need to spend more time watching Norm, (If and when your PBS
station isn't begging).<G>
Cutting those rabbets is one of his tricks for handling metric size
ply and fractional router bits.
Make the rabbet cut such that the 1/4" tongue is about 1/16 from
bottoming out in the groove.
BTW, this is a natural for a dado, if you have one.
Have fun.
Lew
Garage_Woodworks wrote:
>
> "Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> "mac davis" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> >Space Balls are small black rubber balls that are about 1/4" in
>>> >diameter
>> and
>>
>>> Last LV catalog I saw had what I think could be better than Space
>>> Balls..
>>
>> Here's the rubber spacers Mac is talking about.
>> http://www.leevalley.com/hardware/page.aspx?c=1&p=58675&cat=53&ap=1
>
> Thank you. I put these in my too purchase folder!
>
>
They work really well. Something else that works, if you don't have space
balls on hand is small diameter tubing. I fixed an RV door for someone
last summer -- the manufacturer had stapled ~1/8" tubing at intervals in
the dado to stabilize the door and allow for expansion.
--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough
"Garage_Woodworks" wrote:
> How much should I leave between the shoulder of the rabbet and the
> frame?
You lost me.
If the tongue end floats in the frame, the panel rabbet shoulder will
automatically butt up against the frame.
Based on how you build the frame, there will automatically be some
panel float.
When you clamp the frame, clamp the corners only.
As long as the tongue is a dry fit in the frame, you should be good to
go.
BTW, is the frame 3/4"?
Will the groove in the frame be centered in the frame?
Lew
Garage_Woodworks wrote:
>> Make the rabbet cut such that the 1/4" tongue is about 1/16 from
>> bottoming out in the groove.
>
> How much should I leave between the shoulder of the rabbet and the
> frame?
Minimally, the same as between the tongue and inside edge of frame.
--
dadiOH
____________________________
dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
Mark & Juanita wrote:
>
> They work really well. Something else that works, if you don't have space
> balls on hand is small diameter tubing. I fixed an RV door for someone
> last summer -- the manufacturer had stapled ~1/8" tubing at intervals in
> the dado to stabilize the door and allow for expansion.
>
Small pieces of vinyl spline used to secure window screening also works.
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
[email protected]