Any ideas on this one??
Making 4 dining room chairs. Using red oak that I bought rough and planed to
thickness. Milled all the pieces and am finishing them before the glue up so
NO glue or waxes etc have been applied to any of the wood.
Decided to use General Wipe on urethane in the dark mahogany color. I've
used it before and like the color. Started with a tack cloth to clean all
parts then wiped on a coat and immediately wiped down with a clean rag.
Color looked fine.
Approximately 24 hours later I am putting on the first coat of the General
Wipe on satin top coat.
On SOME of the pieces, the stain came off in splotches -exactly as you might
get if you had glue on a surface. Remember, this is stock that I milled
myself - I did not introduce and glue, silicone, etc to the surface.
Even though there is one coat of topcoat, I'm thinking I should sand down
again and repeat the process BUT I'm at a complete loss as to WHY it
blotched when it didn't wipe off when I applied the stain.
Any ideas? next time I'll just use a garnet shellac to get the finish.
Thanx,
Vic
"Mike Marlow" wrote:
> Are you sure? I've never used sodium hydroxide, but I use lacquer
> thinner by the gallon and they stand up to it. Of course, as I
> said...
Sodium hydroxide AKA: Caustic will definitely chew up nitrile.
I use gloves from a safety clothing outfit that are not effected by
solvents or caustic.
About $7-$9/doz pairs.
Cuff is above the wrist.
Big use in food processing or so I'm told.
Lew
Lew
"Mike Marlow" wrote:
> Can you email me some additional information on these gloves?
> Always interested in alternatives. I think the HF stuff is about
> the same price, but for a lot more pairs.
------------------------------------------------
Don't really have any info other than they are known as "canner's
gloves".
Yellow in color.
Do you have any safety clothing distributors in your area?
They will be able to help you.
Lew
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Vic Baron" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> down to bare wood and repeat the process and see what happens.
>>
>> The discoloration looks exactly as it would if you spilled bleach on a
>> dark fabric - looks like a spill and lighter than the surrounding area.
>>
>> Frustrating.
>
> Sounds exactly like the problem I almost always have with Minwax
> Polyshades.
>
To add to that a bit, my solution was to dab the stain back on and after
drying, dabbed a layer or two of varnish.
After the dabbed varnish dried I could apply successive coats of varnish in
the normal way.
"Vic Baron" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Any ideas on this one??
>
> Making 4 dining room chairs. Using red oak that I bought rough and planed
> to thickness. Milled all the pieces and am finishing them before the glue
> up so NO glue or waxes etc have been applied to any of the wood.
>
> Decided to use General Wipe on urethane in the dark mahogany color. I've
> used it before and like the color. Started with a tack cloth to clean all
> parts then wiped on a coat and immediately wiped down with a clean rag.
> Color looked fine.
>
> Approximately 24 hours later I am putting on the first coat of the General
> Wipe on satin top coat.
>
> On SOME of the pieces, the stain came off in splotches -exactly as you
> might get if you had glue on a surface. Remember, this is stock that I
> milled myself - I did not introduce and glue, silicone, etc to the
> surface.
>
> Even though there is one coat of topcoat, I'm thinking I should sand down
> again and repeat the process BUT I'm at a complete loss as to WHY it
> blotched when it didn't wipe off when I applied the stain.
>
> Any ideas? next time I'll just use a garnet shellac to get the finish.
>
> Thanx,
>
> Vic
General Finishes? Urethane stain? I thought that only Minwax had that kind
of stuff.
Anyway, most stains are meant to be wiped off after appication. If you
introduced a varnish to a stained surface that was not wiped down after
application you will often see this. Basically the varnish washes away the
layer that did not pentrate. AND it often happens in such a way that you
think you did something wrong during preperation, which you may have done
unknowingly.
On Dec 2, 11:09=A0am, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
> Vic Baron wrote:
> > Hmmm. =A0Now that is an interesting concept. I always use those cheap
> > nitrile/latex disposables from Harbor Freight.
>
> I use "Member's Mark" disposable nitrile gloves from Sam's when staining
> and have never had the problem.
I haven't had any problems with the nitriles from HF. I cannot
imagine affordable gloves from Sam's being much different from the HF
models. i have used several boxes of the HF with no problems.
Just couldn't afford the ones made in the USA anymore. They are too
expensive when you change gloves 4 - 5 times a day when finishing/
refinishing.
Robert
On Dec 2, 1:13=A0pm, "Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Sheet metal has a *really* tight grain...
Got a real chuckle out of that. Not much room for error there, eh?
Almost zero? =3D^0 !!
Robert
"PDQ" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
In news:445cf9b7-08c0-4aa5-826b-e54cf9fd93a2@s19g2000vbm.googlegroups.com,
[email protected] <[email protected]> dropped this bit of wisdom:
> On Dec 2, 11:09 am, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Vic Baron wrote:
>>> Hmmm. Now that is an interesting concept. I always use those cheap
>>> nitrile/latex disposables from Harbor Freight.
>>
>> I use "Member's Mark" disposable nitrile gloves from Sam's when
>> staining and have never had the problem.
>
> I haven't had any problems with the nitriles from HF. I cannot
> imagine affordable gloves from Sam's being much different from the HF
> models. i have used several boxes of the HF with no problems.
>
> Just couldn't afford the ones made in the USA anymore. They are too
> expensive when you change gloves 4 - 5 times a day when finishing/
> refinishing.
>
> Robert
BTB and maybe of topic: I have a box of those nitriles(?) used to keep
strange bugs (H1N1) at bay. They are definitely no good for removing deck
stain as the sodium hydroxide eats them up. ;-(
*******************************************************************************************************
Are you sure? I've never used sodium hydroxide, but I use lacquer thinner
by the gallon and they stand up to it. Of course, as I said...
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:445cf9b7-08c0-4aa5-826b-e54cf9fd93a2@s19g2000vbm.googlegroups.com...
On Dec 2, 11:09 am, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
> Vic Baron wrote:
> > Hmmm. Now that is an interesting concept. I always use those cheap
> > nitrile/latex disposables from Harbor Freight.
>
> I use "Member's Mark" disposable nitrile gloves from Sam's when staining
> and have never had the problem.
I haven't had any problems with the nitriles from HF. I cannot
imagine affordable gloves from Sam's being much different from the HF
models. i have used several boxes of the HF with no problems.
Just couldn't afford the ones made in the USA anymore. They are too
expensive when you change gloves 4 - 5 times a day when finishing/
refinishing.
*****************************************************************************************
Likewise, I use the nitriles from HF. I've never had a single problem from
or with them. If there was a problem with any form of contamination from
these gloves, I'd be the first to see it, doing a paint work on a car.
Sheet metal has a *really* tight grain...
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
"Kevin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Mon, 30 Nov 2009 17:12:58 -0800, "Vic Baron" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>>Any ideas on this one??
>>
>>Making 4 dining room chairs. Using red oak that I bought rough and planed
>>to
>>thickness. Milled all the pieces and am finishing them before the glue up
>>so
>>NO glue or waxes etc have been applied to any of the wood.
>>
>>Decided to use General Wipe on urethane in the dark mahogany color. I've
>>used it before and like the color. Started with a tack cloth to clean all
>>parts then wiped on a coat and immediately wiped down with a clean rag.
>>Color looked fine.
>>
>>Approximately 24 hours later I am putting on the first coat of the General
>>Wipe on satin top coat.
>>
>>On SOME of the pieces, the stain came off in splotches -exactly as you
>>might
>>get if you had glue on a surface. Remember, this is stock that I milled
>>myself - I did not introduce and glue, silicone, etc to the surface.
>>
>>Even though there is one coat of topcoat, I'm thinking I should sand down
>>again and repeat the process BUT I'm at a complete loss as to WHY it
>>blotched when it didn't wipe off when I applied the stain.
>>
>>Any ideas? next time I'll just use a garnet shellac to get the finish.
>>
>
> I had something like that happen when I wore some cheap disposable
> gloves while staining. Everywhere I touched it the stain wiped off.
> Ah well, at least it wasn't a great big hard maple entertainment
> center I had to sand down and redo. Oh wait, yes it was...
>
>
> -Kevin
Hmmm. Now that is an interesting concept. I always use those cheap
nitrile/latex disposables from Harbor Freight.
"Vic Baron" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> down to bare wood and repeat the process and see what happens.
>
> The discoloration looks exactly as it would if you spilled bleach on a
> dark fabric - looks like a spill and lighter than the surrounding area.
>
> Frustrating.
Sounds exactly like the problem I almost always have with Minwax Polyshades.
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> "Vic Baron" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>> down to bare wood and repeat the process and see what happens.
>>>
>>> The discoloration looks exactly as it would if you spilled bleach on a
>>> dark fabric - looks like a spill and lighter than the surrounding area.
>>>
>>> Frustrating.
>>
>> Sounds exactly like the problem I almost always have with Minwax
>> Polyshades.
>>
>
> To add to that a bit, my solution was to dab the stain back on and after
> drying, dabbed a layer or two of varnish.
> After the dabbed varnish dried I could apply successive coats of varnish
> in the normal way.
>
Since there are only a few small pieces, worst case scenario, I could remill
the parts - chair rails, etc but I think I'll try several approaches and see
what happens.
I'll resand down to bare wood and try again
I'll try sanding the 'blotched' area and reapplying stain
I'll try your approach above also and just reapply some stain, although I
did put a light coat of top coat on it already.
What is so frustrating is that there was no way to see this coming.
"Vic Baron" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Any ideas on this one??
>
Hmm - possible tack cloth but it was a real old one that I bought a long
time ago and have used before w/o issue.
Temps did drop into the 40's last night but it was up in the 70'sll day
today. Started the top coat around 4pm - temp was 75.
out of about 48 pieces, about 12 have a problem - I'll take one and sand it
down to bare wood and repeat the process and see what happens.
The discoloration looks exactly as it would if you spilled bleach on a dark
fabric - looks like a spill and lighter than the surrounding area.
Frustrating.
On Tue, 1 Dec 2009 09:32:27 -0800, the infamous "Vic Baron"
<[email protected]> scrawled the following:
>
>
>"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>>
>> "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>> "Vic Baron" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>
>>>> down to bare wood and repeat the process and see what happens.
>>>>
>>>> The discoloration looks exactly as it would if you spilled bleach on a
>>>> dark fabric - looks like a spill and lighter than the surrounding area.
>>>>
>>>> Frustrating.
>>>
>>> Sounds exactly like the problem I almost always have with Minwax
>>> Polyshades.
>>>
>>
>> To add to that a bit, my solution was to dab the stain back on and after
>> drying, dabbed a layer or two of varnish.
>> After the dabbed varnish dried I could apply successive coats of varnish
>> in the normal way.
>>
>
>
>Since there are only a few small pieces, worst case scenario, I could remill
>the parts - chair rails, etc but I think I'll try several approaches and see
>what happens.
>
>I'll resand down to bare wood and try again
>
>I'll try sanding the 'blotched' area and reapplying stain
>
>I'll try your approach above also and just reapply some stain, although I
>did put a light coat of top coat on it already.
>
>
>What is so frustrating is that there was no way to see this coming.
Sure there is. While doing the prep (wiping with lacquer thinner)
look for differences in gloss. Water works for other adulterants, so
use it to raise the grain and check while doing it, then dry it and
use solvent to check again. It catches most crap easily.
I thought some nice clear cedar from the lumber yard was clean last
summer and found out the hard way that it wasn't. I should have caught
that in the prep, but I was too overheated to think that day and it
cost me a couple more days of stripping, sanding, prepping, and
repainting. That's right, the client wanted paint on $8/bf knot-free
cedar wood! I cried twice over that job.
--
Some days, it's not even worth chewing through the restraints.
"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Mike Marlow" wrote:
>
>> Are you sure? I've never used sodium hydroxide, but I use lacquer
>> thinner by the gallon and they stand up to it. Of course, as I said...
>
> Sodium hydroxide AKA: Caustic will definitely chew up nitrile.
>
> I use gloves from a safety clothing outfit that are not effected by
> solvents or caustic.
>
> About $7-$9/doz pairs.
>
> Cuff is above the wrist.
>
> Big use in food processing or so I'm told.
>
Can you email me some additional information on these gloves? Always
interested in alternatives. I think the HF stuff is about the same price,
but for a lot more pairs.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Mike Marlow" wrote:
>
>> Can you email me some additional information on these gloves? Always
>> interested in alternatives. I think the HF stuff is about the same
>> price, but for a lot more pairs.
> ------------------------------------------------
>
> Don't really have any info other than they are known as "canner's gloves".
>
> Yellow in color.
>
> Do you have any safety clothing distributors in your area?
>
> They will be able to help you.
>
> Lew
>
That'll work. Thanks.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
On Mon, 30 Nov 2009 17:12:58 -0800, "Vic Baron" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Any ideas on this one??
>
>Making 4 dining room chairs. Using red oak that I bought rough and planed to
>thickness. Milled all the pieces and am finishing them before the glue up so
>NO glue or waxes etc have been applied to any of the wood.
>
>Decided to use General Wipe on urethane in the dark mahogany color. I've
>used it before and like the color. Started with a tack cloth to clean all
>parts then wiped on a coat and immediately wiped down with a clean rag.
>Color looked fine.
>
>Approximately 24 hours later I am putting on the first coat of the General
>Wipe on satin top coat.
>
>On SOME of the pieces, the stain came off in splotches -exactly as you might
>get if you had glue on a surface. Remember, this is stock that I milled
>myself - I did not introduce and glue, silicone, etc to the surface.
>
>Even though there is one coat of topcoat, I'm thinking I should sand down
>again and repeat the process BUT I'm at a complete loss as to WHY it
>blotched when it didn't wipe off when I applied the stain.
>
>Any ideas? next time I'll just use a garnet shellac to get the finish.
>
I had something like that happen when I wore some cheap disposable
gloves while staining. Everywhere I touched it the stain wiped off.
Ah well, at least it wasn't a great big hard maple entertainment
center I had to sand down and redo. Oh wait, yes it was...
-Kevin
Leon wrote:
> "Vic Baron" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> down to bare wood and repeat the process and see what happens.
>>
>> The discoloration looks exactly as it would if you spilled bleach on a
>> dark fabric - looks like a spill and lighter than the surrounding area.
>>
>> Frustrating.
>
> Sounds exactly like the problem I almost always have with Minwax Polyshades.
I never have that problem because I never use the stuff.
--
See Nad. See Nad go. Go Nad!
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/
In =
news:445cf9b7-08c0-4aa5-826b-e54cf9fd93a2@s19g2000vbm.googlegroups.com,
[email protected] <[email protected]> dropped this bit of =
wisdom:
> On Dec 2, 11:09 am, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Vic Baron wrote:
>>> Hmmm. Now that is an interesting concept. I always use those cheap
>>> nitrile/latex disposables from Harbor Freight.
>>=20
>> I use "Member's Mark" disposable nitrile gloves from Sam's when
>> staining and have never had the problem.
>=20
> I haven't had any problems with the nitriles from HF. I cannot
> imagine affordable gloves from Sam's being much different from the HF
> models. i have used several boxes of the HF with no problems.
>=20
> Just couldn't afford the ones made in the USA anymore. They are too
> expensive when you change gloves 4 - 5 times a day when finishing/
> refinishing.
>=20
> Robert
BTB and maybe of topic: I have a box of those nitriles(?) used to keep =
strange bugs (H1N1) at bay. They are definitely no good for removing =
deck stain as the sodium hydroxide eats them up. ;-(
P D Q
On Tue, 1 Dec 2009 06:56:49 -0600, the infamous "Leon"
<[email protected]> scrawled the following:
>
>"Vic Baron" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>>
>> down to bare wood and repeat the process and see what happens.
>>
>> The discoloration looks exactly as it would if you spilled bleach on a
>> dark fabric - looks like a spill and lighter than the surrounding area.
>>
>> Frustrating.
>
>Sounds exactly like the problem I almost always have with Minwax Polyshades.
Yeah, a client made me use that one time on a project I built for them
and I was aghast at the blotchy, brushmarked finish. They were OK with
it. I tiptoed away and found a nice place to throw up. I won't make
that mistake again.
--
Some days, it's not even worth chewing through the restraints.
[...snip...]
>
>Decided to use General Wipe on urethane in the dark mahogany color. I've
>used it before and like the color. Started with a tack cloth to clean all
>parts then wiped on a coat and immediately wiped down with a clean rag.
>Color looked fine.
>
>Approximately 24 hours later I am putting on the first coat of the General
>Wipe on satin top coat.
>
>On SOME of the pieces, the stain came off in splotches -exactly as you might
>get if you had glue on a surface. Remember, this is stock that I milled
>myself - I did not introduce and glue, silicone, etc to the surface.
>
>Even though there is one coat of topcoat, I'm thinking I should sand down
>again and repeat the process BUT I'm at a complete loss as to WHY it
>blotched when it didn't wipe off when I applied the stain.
>
>Any ideas? next time I'll just use a garnet shellac to get the finish.
>
>Thanx,
>
>Vic
>
>
Hmm, polyurethane adhesion problems. I like the tack rag suggestion.
Other possible reasons? What was the temperature and humidity? High
humidity can mean it takes much longer to fully cure, more than 24
hours. Lower temperature, same thing.
Another suggestion I've seen; sanding with stearated sandpaper can
leave some material on the wood that affects adhesion.
More Google searching will no doubt find even more reasons the poly
didn't adhere; it is a too common problem.
>> next time I'll just use a garnet shellac to get the finish.
Well shellac is the finisher's friend. I use it for anything I can. If
you want more protection, put poly on for the last coat. They say
don't put poly over shellac but that doesn't apply if it is dewaxed
shellac.
>> the first coat of the General Wipe on satin top coat.
FYI, something that I recently read that makes sense to me, if you are
building up several coats but want a satin finish, use gloss on all
coats except the final coat, where you can use satin.. The flatteners
used to make it the surface satin will cloud up the finish more than
necessary.
>> Jim