HS

"Henry St.Pierre"

07/05/2006 10:11 PM

New over old (laminate)

Greetings,
Does anyone have experience applying new Formica/Wilsonart laminate over
old laminate using waterborne contact cement? I've only done new work and
haven't much experience with waterborne contact cement. I assume the old
surface should be sanded with a coarse grit to allow the contact cement to
grip. I would like to use Wilsonart H2O contact cement
Any experiences, good or bad, tips, watchout fors etc. installing new
laminate over old (especially using water base cement) would be
appreciated.
Thanks and regards,
Hank


This topic has 16 replies

DB

Dave Balderstone

in reply to "Henry St.Pierre" on 07/05/2006 10:11 PM

09/05/2006 2:54 PM

In article <[email protected]>, Henry
St.Pierre <[email protected]> wrote:

> Greetings,
> Does anyone have experience applying new Formica/Wilsonart laminate over
> old laminate using waterborne contact cement? I've only done new work and
> haven't much experience with waterborne contact cement. I assume the old
> surface should be sanded with a coarse grit to allow the contact cement to
> grip. I would like to use Wilsonart H2O contact cement
> Any experiences, good or bad, tips, watchout fors etc. installing new
> laminate over old (especially using water base cement) would be
> appreciated.
> Thanks and regards,
> Hank

I asked about this in alt.home.repair and was pointed to this technical
brief
<http://formica.com/publish/site/na/us/en/index/laminate/documents.GnFPa
rSys.0031.DownloadFile.File.tmp/4%20Resurf%20Tech.pdf> at
<http://formica.com/publish/site/na/us/en/index/laminate/documents.html>


djb

DB

Dave Balderstone

in reply to "Henry St.Pierre" on 07/05/2006 10:11 PM

09/05/2006 7:46 PM

In article <[email protected]>, Enoch
Root <[email protected]> wrote:

> or even:
>
>
> <URL:http://formica.com/publish/site/na/us/en/index/laminate/documents.GnFParS
> ys.0031.DownloadFile.File.tmp/4%20Resurf%20Tech.pdf>


Yes... That was the first of the two URLs I posted. The second was the
page listing many docs including that one.

DB

Dave Balderstone

in reply to "Henry St.Pierre" on 07/05/2006 10:11 PM

10/05/2006 1:38 PM

In article <[email protected]>, Enoch
Root <[email protected]> wrote:

> Heh, your newsreader broke that one, too. I was just fixing it.

Enclosing a URL in angle brackets <thusly> should preserve it across
line breaks in a well-behaved newsreader (like the one I use, and I
thought T-Bird too) but it all goes to crap as soon as it's quoted.

No worries.

j

in reply to "Henry St.Pierre" on 07/05/2006 10:11 PM

10/05/2006 12:53 PM

On Wed, 10 May 2006 13:38:06 -0600, Village Idiot in Training Dave Balderstone
<dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_Sbalderstone.ca> wrote:

>but it all goes to crap

LOL!
Dave you are so plum full of crap I'm not guessing when I say you have brown
eyes.<g>

ER

Enoch Root

in reply to "Henry St.Pierre" on 07/05/2006 10:11 PM

09/05/2006 6:22 PM

Dave Balderstone wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, Henry
> St.Pierre <[email protected]> wrote:

>> Any experiences, good or bad, tips, watchout fors etc. installing new
>>laminate over old (especially using water base cement) would be
>>appreciated.

> I asked about this in alt.home.repair and was pointed to this technical
> brief
> <http://formica.com/publish/site/na/us/en/index/laminate/documents.GnFPa
> rSys.0031.DownloadFile.File.tmp/4%20Resurf%20Tech.pdf> at
> <http://formica.com/publish/site/na/us/en/index/laminate/documents.html>

or even:

<URL:http://formica.com/publish/site/na/us/en/index/laminate/documents.GnFParSys.0031.DownloadFile.File.tmp/4%20Resurf%20Tech.pdf>

er
--
email not valid

j

in reply to "Henry St.Pierre" on 07/05/2006 10:11 PM

09/05/2006 8:33 AM

On Tue, 09 May 2006 08:21:37 -0400, Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
> "Henry St.Pierre" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> . I was choosing waterborne because of the
>> lack of odor.
>
>In-home use of a lot of solvent based contact cement can kill a budgie.

Look what sniffing solvent has done to your brain asshole.

ER

Enoch Root

in reply to "Henry St.Pierre" on 07/05/2006 10:11 PM

09/05/2006 11:57 PM

Dave Balderstone wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, Enoch
> Root <[email protected]> wrote:

>><URL:http://formica.com/publish/site/na/us/en/index/laminate/documents.GnFParS
>>ys.0031.DownloadFile.File.tmp/4%20Resurf%20Tech.pdf>

> Yes... That was the first of the two URLs I posted. The second was the
> page listing many docs including that one.

Heh, your newsreader broke that one, too. I was just fixing it.

er
--
email not valid

HS

"Henry St.Pierre"

in reply to "Henry St.Pierre" on 07/05/2006 10:11 PM

08/05/2006 8:43 PM

Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> In article <[email protected]>,
> "Henry St.Pierre" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Greetings,
>> Does anyone have experience applying new Formica/Wilsonart laminate
>> over
>> old laminate using waterborne contact cement? I've only done new work
>> and haven't much experience with waterborne contact cement. I assume
>> the old surface should be sanded with a coarse grit to allow the
>> contact cement to grip. I would like to use Wilsonart H2O contact
>> cement
>> Any experiences, good or bad, tips, watchout fors etc. installing
>> new
>> laminate over old (especially using water base cement) would be
>> appreciated.
>> Thanks and regards,
>> Hank
>
> I do countertops for a living^H^H^H^H^support my tool habit.
> The problem with roughing up (36-grit belt sander) laminate, is that
> you will get 'tooth' but whatever adhesive you use, won't have an
> efficient place for the solvent to vent to. Water based contact
> cement, like its solvent based mate, needs at least one surface to be
> porous enough to absorb the liquid from the adhesive after flash-off.
> The bulk will flash off whilst getting it ready before the 'contact',
> but the usual absorption by the substrate won't be nearly as effective
> with old laminate in the way... The solvent based cement will do a
> better job in your application. (Because you can flash off way more
> solvent, to the point that the cement is dry to the touch, and still
> have excellent 'stick'. The water based cement doesn't have as long an
> open time.
>
> On fresh PB or MDF, the water based products work great.
>
> Wilsonart WA3000
> (http://www.wilsonart.com/productlib/techdata/adhesives/3000_TD.pdf)
> is a PVA adhesive which is not a contact cement but might be a better
> choice if your heart is set on water based. You apply it to the
> substrate only and you have a very narrow window to apply your
> laminate..and then you roll it with all your might/weight. That stuff
> is phenomenal. 5 gallon is the smallest qty you can buy so maybe
> calling the distributor in your area might be the way to go. Hopefully
> they will know who uses that adhesive in your area...and they might
> sell you what you need.
>
> Good luck!
>
> HTH
>
> r
>

Thanks Robotoy, Owen and Robert. I was choosing waterborne because of the
lack of odor. The lady I'm doing the job for has a very acute sense of
smell (I sometimes refer to her as the 'beagle', though she is far from a
dog. Her sense of smell is so acute that I make all my girlfriends wear
Old Spice aftershave. It pisses them off, but saves my parts.
Thanks again,
Hank

HS

"Henry St.Pierre"

in reply to "Henry St.Pierre" on 07/05/2006 10:11 PM

10/05/2006 12:17 AM

Dave Balderstone <dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_Sbalderstone.ca> wrote in
news:090520061454417522%dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_Sbalderstone.ca:

> http://formica.com/publish

Thanks Dave,
I really appreciated the part of the artical that stated " DO not use
water based adhesive".
Regards,
Hank

HS

"Henry St.Pierre"

in reply to "Henry St.Pierre" on 07/05/2006 10:11 PM

10/05/2006 12:19 AM

Enoch Root <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> http://formica.com/publish/site/na/us/en/index/laminate/documents.GnFPa
> rSys.0031.DownloadFile.File.tmp/4%20Resurf%20Tech.pdf

Enoch,
Like I said to Dave, Thanks.
Hank

RA

Robert Allison

in reply to "Henry St.Pierre" on 07/05/2006 10:11 PM

08/05/2006 4:26 AM

Henry St.Pierre wrote:
> Greetings,
> Does anyone have experience applying new Formica/Wilsonart laminate over
> old laminate using waterborne contact cement? I've only done new work and
> haven't much experience with waterborne contact cement. I assume the old
> surface should be sanded with a coarse grit to allow the contact cement to
> grip. I would like to use Wilsonart H2O contact cement
> Any experiences, good or bad, tips, watchout fors etc. installing new
> laminate over old (especially using water base cement) would be
> appreciated.
> Thanks and regards,
> Hank

I have done overlays many times in the past, using just the
method that you describe. However, I have always used the
solvent based contact cement. I believe in the "if it ain't
broke, don't fix it" method, so I have never tried the water
based solvent.

For what its worth, the guy that I use for formica on larger
projects told me that he would NOT use water base cement due
to warranty problems in the past. He did not elaborate.

--
Robert Allison
Rimshot, Inc.
Georgetown, TX

Rd

Robatoy

in reply to "Henry St.Pierre" on 07/05/2006 10:11 PM

08/05/2006 2:17 AM

In article <[email protected]>,
"Henry St.Pierre" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Greetings,
> Does anyone have experience applying new Formica/Wilsonart laminate over
> old laminate using waterborne contact cement? I've only done new work and
> haven't much experience with waterborne contact cement. I assume the old
> surface should be sanded with a coarse grit to allow the contact cement to
> grip. I would like to use Wilsonart H2O contact cement
> Any experiences, good or bad, tips, watchout fors etc. installing new
> laminate over old (especially using water base cement) would be
> appreciated.
> Thanks and regards,
> Hank

I do countertops for a living^H^H^H^H^support my tool habit.
The problem with roughing up (36-grit belt sander) laminate, is that you
will get 'tooth' but whatever adhesive you use, won't have an efficient
place for the solvent to vent to. Water based contact cement, like its
solvent based mate, needs at least one surface to be porous enough to
absorb the liquid from the adhesive after flash-off. The bulk will flash
off whilst getting it ready before the 'contact', but the usual
absorption by the substrate won't be nearly as effective with old
laminate in the way... The solvent based cement will do a better job in
your application. (Because you can flash off way more solvent, to the
point that the cement is dry to the touch, and still have excellent
'stick'. The water based cement doesn't have as long an open time.

On fresh PB or MDF, the water based products work great.

Wilsonart WA3000
(http://www.wilsonart.com/productlib/techdata/adhesives/3000_TD.pdf) is
a PVA adhesive which is not a contact cement but might be a better
choice if your heart is set on water based. You apply it to the
substrate only and you have a very narrow window to apply your
laminate..and then you roll it with all your might/weight. That stuff is
phenomenal. 5 gallon is the smallest qty you can buy so maybe calling
the distributor in your area might be the way to go. Hopefully they will
know who uses that adhesive in your area...and they might sell you what
you need.

Good luck!

HTH

r

Rd

Robatoy

in reply to "Henry St.Pierre" on 07/05/2006 10:11 PM

09/05/2006 8:21 AM

In article <[email protected]>,
"Henry St.Pierre" <[email protected]> wrote:

> . I was choosing waterborne because of the
> lack of odor.

In-home use of a lot of solvent based contact cement can kill a budgie.
.
..
or so I'm told.

j

in reply to "Henry St.Pierre" on 07/05/2006 10:11 PM

09/05/2006 4:54 PM

On Tue, 09 May 2006 14:54:41 -0600, Dave Balderstone
<dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_Sbalderstone.ca> wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, Henry
>St.Pierre <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Greetings,
>> Does anyone have experience applying new Formica/Wilsonart laminate over
>> old laminate using waterborne contact cement? I've only done new work and
>> haven't much experience with waterborne contact cement. I assume the old
>> surface should be sanded with a coarse grit to allow the contact cement to
>> grip. I would like to use Wilsonart H2O contact cement
>> Any experiences, good or bad, tips, watchout fors etc. installing new
>> laminate over old (especially using water base cement) would be
>> appreciated.
>> Thanks and regards,
>> Hank
>
>I asked about this in alt.home.repair

Sure you did.
Dave you can't sniff these contact cements so what fucking good would they be to
a POS circle jerker like you.

FC

Fly-by-Night CC

in reply to "Henry St.Pierre" on 07/05/2006 10:11 PM

07/05/2006 10:03 PM

In article <[email protected]>,
"Henry St.Pierre" <[email protected]> wrote:

> tips

- make sure you degrease the surface very well

- make sure the existing laminate is securely bonded to the substrate
--
Owen Lowe
The Fly-by-Night Copper Company
__________

"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the
Corporate States of America and to the
Republicans for which it stands, one nation,
under debt, easily divisible, with liberty
and justice for oil."
- Wiley Miller, Non Sequitur, 1/24/05

j

in reply to "Henry St.Pierre" on 07/05/2006 10:11 PM

09/05/2006 8:57 AM

On Mon, 08 May 2006 02:17:46 -0400, Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
> "Henry St.Pierre" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Greetings,
>> Does anyone have experience applying new Formica/Wilsonart laminate over
>> old laminate using waterborne contact cement? I've only done new work and
>> haven't much experience with waterborne contact cement. I assume the old
>> surface should be sanded with a coarse grit to allow the contact cement to
>> grip. I would like to use Wilsonart H2O contact cement
>> Any experiences, good or bad, tips, watchout fors etc. installing new
>> laminate over old (especially using water base cement) would be
>> appreciated.
>> Thanks and regards,
>> Hank
>
>I do countertops for a living

LOL!
Sure you do. You sniff glue and jerk off all day.


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