I think I watched my last episode of Rough Cut this morning. He built a
trestle table. The only part that needed explanation was the breadboaed
ends. His comment "All I've got left to do is glue on the ends" and that
was all he said. Sheeesh!
I'm going to write to Woodcraft. As an ex-employee I'm ashamed they're
sponsoring it.
--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw
I knew some loggers that had two man chain saws. The tip
of the bar had a handle on it - so two could drive it through
a big tree or large buttress.
The odd saw was a Bow Chain saw. The chain is a big loop.
I never understood the real need but it was used standing and
pushing down. - the front was a long flat of a triangular bar.
The center was all open. I think it was a limb cutter for down
lumber - and there isn't a tip to catch.
Martin
On 2/6/2011 1:45 PM, Robatoy wrote:
> On Feb 6, 2:34 pm, -MIKE-<[email protected]> wrote:
>> On 2/6/11 1:13 PM, RicodJour wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Feb 6, 1:41 pm, -MIKE-<[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> On 2/6/11 12:32 PM, RicodJour wrote:
>>
>>>>> On Feb 6, 1:10 pm, -MIKE-<[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>>>> I'm not talking about the creative side of it. About all I could ever
>>>>>> make from play-dough was a multi-colored turd. I'm just talking about
>>>>>> the dexterity and accuracy one attains, fairly quickly, with a chain saw.
>>
>>>>> What size/weight chainsaw were you playing around with when you were
>>>>> trying it out?
>>
>>>> Tiny.... I think it was a 15 Husqvarna.
>>
>>> Okay, thanks. The reason I was asking is that the owner had a tree
>>> cut down on one project I was working on, and I had them leave a 3.5'
>>> stump with the idea that at some point I'd chainsaw carve it. I have
>>> a buddy who goes through collecting phases, and currently he's
>>> collecting chainsaws - go figure. So, maybe it's about time.
>>
>>> R
>>
>> The college I went to was a tech school..... 13th& 14th grade, really. :-)
>> They taught forestry which included chainsaw training. They used
>> everything from little toy-looking saws to the ones so long they had to
>> go diagonal in the bed of a pickup.
>>
>> Each year they had a big festival with all kinds of competitions like
>> those timber sports events you see on espn... in fact espn started
>> covering this one. Anyway, they had dozens of guys doing chainsaw
>> art/carvings from wood and ice. IIRC, they all used the smaller, lighter
>> chainsaws to do that work.
>>
> I worked a summer job for a surveyor company and we had to blaze
> trails to set up monument systems for the Bruce Nuclear development.
> I got to appreciate smaller, powerful chainsaws, Husqies my preferred
> ones over the others. That was late 60's, nothing fancy like automatic
> anything...Oh and I sure got to appreciate the protective legs covers
> first hand.
>
On Jan 31, 8:06=A0pm, "John Grossbohlin"
<[email protected]> wrote:
> >"RicodJour" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >news:[email protected]...
> >On Jan 30, 4:17 pm, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >On 1/30/2011 2:53 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
> > >> On Sun, 30 Jan 2011 12:41:01 -0600, Swingman<[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >> >> Methinks the lad would quickly grab for a tailed tool or two, or mo=
re
> >> >> ...
>
> > >> I'm not so sure, Swingy. The man is QUICK! And have you ever watched
> > >> that handy Hungarian, Frank Klausz, make dovetails? He's quicker
> > >> doing up a drawer than a Normite is just setting up his first jig.
> > >> It's amazing. With Roy's love of woodworking, I think he'd likely go
> >> > with handtools everywhere.
>
> >I saw Klausz cut a drawer at a local woodworking club meeting. =A0The
> >guy was so quick I didn't know whether to laugh or cry, so I did
> >both. =A0He spoke about laying out dovetails on graduated drawers by
> >eye, and you could hear murmurrs of "WTF?" =A0To do the same thing with
> >power tools would require jig modifications for every drawer, and they
> >still wouldn't have that hand-cut tiny-pin dovetail look. =A0They simply
> >look better.
>
> At last year's Woodworkers Showcase in Saratoga Springs, NY I used a 22" =
12
> pt Sandvik crosscut saw, marking gauge, pencil, 1/2" chisel, and my eyes =
to
> layout and cut dovetails during my presentation... My core topic was how =
to
> use reference surfaces and edges to guide your work (e.g., bench top, edg=
e
> of board). =A0In dovetailing, once you understand the relationships of th=
e
> parts and cuts the tools used become secondary.
Do you record the presentations you do? Any links to them to share?
I'd love to see that.
> PS. this year's show is the last weekend of March. I'm doing a presentati=
on
> on scrub planes.
You _had_ to bring that up! My #40 blade and lever cap went walkabout
some while back. You haven't seen them by any chance, have you? ;)
R
On Feb 6, 10:13=A0pm, Martin Eastburn <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
> Currently have three trees down in the front yard and
> several dozen (guess) in the wood lot. =A0Heavy storm takes
> out trees easily. =A0Ike took out 2 acres of my trees.
You lost two acres of trees...? I guess you're set for firewood for a
while.
R
On Jan 31, 9:52=A0pm, "Max" <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Jan 30, 11:36 pm, RicodJour <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Power tools are just an extension of the industrial revolution's aim
> > to obviate operator skill in favor of cheap labor.
>
> Damn. =A0And all this time I thought it was all about efficiency.
Yes, of course. Efficiency to hire cheaper and fewer people. That's
where sabotage comes from.
Whenever a new technology increases efficiency, it starts out
expensive and the proletariat only get to play with it when it gets
cheap enough. ;)
R
On Jan 30, 12:56=A0pm, Michael Kenefick <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Ditto here in Central Ohio on PBS. =A0The guys and gals on this newsgroup
> may be able to figure out some the tings they leave out, but not me (AKA
> extreme novice wanna be). =A0Some nice items were made by the host and hi=
s
> friends..
There's no argument if any show attracts more people into our 'sport',
then it's a good show. I think my main objection with Rough Cut is
that it tries to be all things to all people, and that's simply not
possible. Tommy Mac's got some serious chops, but it's almost as if
they're downplaying that (or editing it out) to showcase his
personality. When you contrast that with The Woodwright's Shop, where
it's impossible to ignore Roy's woodworking skill and enthusiasm _and_
his personality, it really accentuates what's missing in Rough Cut.
Do not get me wrong, I would be saddened if Rough Cut left the
airwaves (cables?). It's definitely a nice addition to the selection
of woodworking shows to watch, and I'm looking forward to seeing more
of them.
R
On Feb 6, 10:24=A0pm, Martin Eastburn <[email protected]>
wrote:
> I knew some loggers that had two man chain saws. =A0The tip
> of the bar had a handle on it - so two could drive it through
> a big tree or large buttress.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Dp0NKcQtAz7s
R
On Feb 1, 1:08=A0am, "CW" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Max" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...
>
>
>
> > On Jan 30, 11:36 pm, RicodJour <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >> Power tools are just an extension of the industrial revolution's aim
> >> to obviate operator skill in favor of cheap labor.
>
> > Damn. =A0And all this time I thought it was all about efficiency.
>
> True. Power tools do not make a man less of a craftsman, it just makes hi=
m
> more efficient.
...AND more accurate if he knows what he's doing.
On Feb 6, 1:10=A0pm, -MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> I'm not talking about the creative side of it. =A0About all I could ever
> make from play-dough was a multi-colored turd. =A0I'm just talking about
> the dexterity and accuracy one attains, fairly quickly, with a chain saw.
What size/weight chainsaw were you playing around with when you were
trying it out?
R
>"RicodJour" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:06329828-4d7f-494e-bfd0->[email protected]...
>On Jan 31, 8:06 pm, "John Grossbohlin"
><[email protected]> wrote:
>> At last year's Woodworkers Showcase in Saratoga Springs, NY I used a 22"
>> 12
>> pt Sandvik crosscut saw, marking gauge, pencil, 1/2" chisel, and my eyes
>> to
> >layout and cut dovetails during my presentation... My core topic was how
> >to
>> use reference surfaces and edges to guide your work (e.g., bench top,
>> edge
> >of board). In dovetailing, once you understand the relationships of the
>> parts and cuts the tools used become secondary.
>Do you record the presentations you do? Any links to them to share?
>I'd love to see that.
> >PS. this year's show is the last weekend of March. I'm doing a
> >presentation
>> on scrub planes.
>You _had_ to bring that up! My #40 blade and lever cap went walkabout
>some while back. You haven't seen them by any chance, have you? ;)
There was a cameraman shooting but I don't know if it was recorded or just
projected on the monitor.... . I'll have to ask!
No stray plane parts found today... had to move many of my stationary tools
this evening and the only thing I found was a build up of saw dust
underneath the cabinet saw that the dust collector missed. ;~)
John
On Feb 1, 1:58=A0pm, Larry Blanchard <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Mon, 31 Jan 2011 18:51:36 -0800, RicodJour wrote:
> > I also collect antique tools. =A0I use antique tools on a daily basis. =
I
> > bought a tool collection from an estate sale - that guy had some eye an=
d
> > had been collecting for years. =A0So I got several workshops full in on=
e
> > fell swoop. =A0It was kinda, sorta 'cheating' I guess, but hey, the pri=
ce
> > was right! =A0So from that one purchase I have literally hundreds of ha=
nd
> > planes. =A0I have pretty much the complete Stanley catalog, with a few
> > notable (read expensive) exceptions, tools that would fit right in with
> > Rob H's quizzes, coach building tools, pretty much any woodworking hand
> > tool you could think of.
>
> I think I hate you :-). =A0I also have the garage sale habit, but the bes=
t
> I've ever done was either a 1948 Delta tablesaw or an old Stanley double
> spokeshave that was like new.
>
> BTW, there's a story on that spokeshave. =A0I tried to find out how old i=
t
> was. =A0Best I could do was pre-1910. =A0So when antiques road show came =
to
> town I took it in. =A0The expert said it was from the 1800s (I forget the
> exact year), was the best condition he'd ever seen, and could well have
> been part of the first production run of that model. =A0I thanked him for
> the info and said I would be using the spokeshave. =A0He looked at me and
> said "Don't you dare!" - I think of that each time I even look at the
> spokeshave :-).
Good for you! Life's too short to work with crappy tools. If you
have an oldie but goodie, by all means you should be using it. If
people give you grief, tell them that you're doing your best to make
all the other existing examples more valuable. ;)
R
On Jan 31, 3:59 pm, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 1/30/2011 10:36 PM, RicodJour wrote:
>
> > For every this-is-why-power-tools-are-faster scenario you could come
> > up with, I could come up with a scenario where hand tools are faster/
> > better. If you choose plywood batch cutting, I say running off 12' of
> > custom molding to match period molding.
>
> I'll buy that only when you can show me pictoral proof where either of
> these guys has built a complete modern kitchen with their untailed
> tools, bow saws and dovetail saws, one containing provisions for all the
> modern conveniences and accouterments expected in today's high end
> kitchens, and done in a sufficient time and manner to justify the labor
> costs to make a living at it ... .
>
> ... until then, I say horsedookie ... ;)
If woodworking to you is simply banging out 'modern' kitchens, then,
sure, you win. Funnily enough, I don't think MDF is wood and I'm
still on the fence about plywood being wood. I refuse to call working
something other than wood, woodworking - that's just me. It has
nothing to do with anyone else's preferences and predilections. You
like it, knock yourself out.
If we can't agree on what quality is, than there's no point in
bringing up speed. The reason that plywood and 'modern' kitchens came
about partly due to a desire for _reasonable_ quality. Primarily
plywood and power tools came about for a desire for speed. Speed that
only highly skilled craftsmen could achieve. Highly skilled craftsmen
are, and always have been, in short supply and they always get top
dollar. This does not mesh well with Henry Ford's vision of the new
world order.
Wood and working wood has been around for thousands of years. The
Romans used steel hand planes. No superior joint has been developed
than a hand cut dovetail. Some joints are faster, but there are no
better joints, and the dovetail has been around for thousands of
years. I've seen lots of machine cut dovetail drawers give up the
ghost, but hand cut dovetails stay together far better. You need to
trim the pins flush on a dovetail joint, do you reach for a sander?
Power planer? No, of course not, you reach for a plane. It's faster,
less likely to mess something up, and leaves a better finish.
Evidence of hand work is a better finish.
Which brings me to a bit of a tangent. Have you ever done work that
came out so well it looked fake? I did a recent patterned parquet
floor foyer entrance hall. Walnut and white oak with walnut feature
strips, fairly complicated layout to mirror the ceiling layout.
Nice. I cut all of the wood by hand and used hand scrapers to remove
the backing (fronting?) paper.* I had a friend stop by to take a look
and I nearly died when he took a look and asked if it was linoleum. I
was kind of pissed when I realized he wasn't joking, then I realized
that in a sorta kinda way it was a compliment. The floor was too good
- it did look fake. Luckily God, humidity changes and a dog with long
nails has remedied that.
Back to our discusion (or my diatribe, depending on where you're
sitting).
Where has that quest for speed gotten us? It's gotten us to the point
that we've lost tons of information about working wood. Nobody sets
out to waste time...well, at least not when working, and the people
that came before us were no different. Frank Klausz is legendary
nowadays, but talk to him. He'll be the first one to tell you that
he's not the fastest dovetail chopper he's ever seen. The guys that
did it back in the day did it each and every day, there were
apprenticeships (and not this union crap where a carpenter puts up
fooking drywall!), masters and journeymen, and they were just as smart
as you and me. Your average guy would cut Klausz-speed dovetails, but
that came with experience and dedication, not dabbling
> > Power tools are just an extension of the industrial revolution's aim
> > to obviate operator skill in favor of cheap labor. There's also the
> > question of cost in outfitting a shop. A complete joiner's shop back
> > in the day fit in a 3'x2'x2' box. Now a guy figures he can't do any
> > work unless he has ten grand in tools - to start. Journeymen
> > carpenters walked around with a roll with their tools inside, often
> > just the blades and bits, and made handles, benches and whatever else
> > was needed on the spot.
>
> > We've gained some with power tools, but we've lost just as much
> > because of them. I still wish that carpenters wore corduroy suits so
> > we could see at a glance who was in the brotherhood.
>
> Sorry, don't buy it. Been hanging in woodworking shops for over 60 years
> and the tool world has _never_ been more conducive to turning out a
> higher volume of _quality_ work than it is at present.
Firstly, you are a son of the modern age. If you said 160 years, a)
I'd be very impressed and b) I think you'd be singing a different
tune. Power tools were the norm by the 1950's. The old ways were
pretty much supplanted and lost by then. At least in the US, home of
the "it's new so it must be better" mentality. If speed is the only
ticket, buy IKEA. Fine cabinets, nothing wrong with them, and they'll
last just as long as anything you'll make.
I also think we have different definitions of what the word quality
means. From the cheap seats it seems you are confusing quality and
mass production begetting repeatability. Mass production is nothing
without speed. Quality is independent of speed. Quality is what is
left when you take all of the other stuff away, but I kind of gather
you wouldn't be into a discussion of metaphysics as it relates to
woodworking, so I'll spare you and everybody else.
> C'mom, gimme me some pictoral proof to back up your contention ... I've
> got more of that on my side than you can wade through in a month of Sundays.
I'll tell you what, I'll relate a little story about how I came to be
involved in woodworking in the first place, and then you can relate
yours. Maybe we can trace our differing viewpoints back to the
beginning.
I'd dabbled in little projects since I was a pup. Building models and
cobbling things together. I didn't own any tools at all. I just used
my Dad's. Dad was an orthodontist, ridiculously dexterous with his
hands, and meticulous as you'd ever want somebody who was going to be
sticking their hand in your mouth to be. I grew up watching him do
stuff around the house. Building shelves, boxes, little things. He
had no training in woodworking, no shop, no real tools to speak of,
other than repurposed dental tools - of which there were hundreds.
His only 'serious' woodworking tools, were a power drill and a nice
hand saw, couple chisels. From him I learned that skill is in the
hands and mind, not in the tools. He earned a pretty penny, and
preferred to spend the money on the family, rather than on a shop. I
suppose if he had more time, fewer kids and wasn't a one-man band
medical practice, he would have had more time for bigger projects and
maybe he would have had the de-luxe shop. Woulda, coulda, shoulda -
who knows.
Fast forward about ten years. I'm in Cambridge, MA and I'd just
finished my finals after a grueling term, and it was a few days before
Christmas. I went with my buddy to shop for some presents for
Christmas. As we walked around Cambridge and window shopped, I became
depressed. All I saw was shit and glitz. I couldn't afford a lot and
didn't see anything that I would want to give as a gift. The
depression turned into despondency as the night wore on and no
presents were bought. This was going to be the worst Christmas ever -
wouldn't matter what I got if I gave lame ass presents.
We turned into a weird little mini-mall, for lack of a better term -
one of those things where there's an alley inside the building with a
number of shops opening off of that. On the second floor we walked by
a big glass storefront. The store look unoccupied, there was hardly
anything in it, just a few pieces of furniture scattered about. Then
I noticed the furniture was different somehow - this wasn't a
furniture store showroom. One of the pieces had some wood shavings
curled around the bottom of it. This intrigued me, so we went in.
It turned out that that the place was showcasing some of the North
Bennett Street School's student work. As I walked up to the piece
with the little curlies, a guy walked out from the back of the store,
and we started to talk. He walked me through the different pieces in
the 'store' - nothing was for sale as far as I recall (_definitely_
couldn't have afforded it!). He showed me some of the stuff that some
of the students made, and the progression of work as their abilities
increased. First project was a small box for their oil stone, next
was a tool box for their tools (this was expected to take the full
year or half year to complete), and then on to furniture. He took me
over to a chest of drawers and showed off the all wood construction,
no metal hardware at all, and the incredible fit of the, of course,
dovetailed drawers. He pulled out one about half way and closed it
fairly rapidly. I gaped. All of the other drawers popped out the
exact same amount. I knew it wasn't a trick, but it still felt like
looked like a trick. He explained about using a hand plane to tweak
the fit of a drawer, showed me that the curlies were from a hand
scraper (I didn't even know what that was).
I left that store _pumped_. I knew what I wanted to do for my
presents...I also knew that they wouldn't be ready on time. This is a
tradition that I carry on to this day. ;)
I have all the power tools. I have Festool out the yin yang (wish I
got into them years ago when I was more concerned with being an
'active' contractor), and all the other power tools that you would
imagine a designer/builder would have with a going concern. The tools
were and are mine. I did not supply tools to guys working for me, and
I take care of my tools, so most of them I still have. I also have a
nasty addiction to garage sales, auctions and eBay, and simply find it
impossible to pass up a good deal. I've picked up panel saws,
bandsaws, old iron from the 40's and 50's, etc., etc. I have way, way
more power tools than I need.
I also collect antique tools. I use antique tools on a daily basis.
I bought a tool collection from an estate sale - that guy had some eye
and had been collecting for years. So I got several workshops full in
one fell swoop. It was kinda, sorta 'cheating' I guess, but hey, the
price was right! So from that one purchase I have literally hundreds
of hand planes. I have pretty much the complete Stanley catalog, with
a few notable (read expensive) exceptions, tools that would fit right
in with Rob H's quizzes, coach building tools, pretty much any
woodworking hand tool you could think of. These old tools bring me
far, far more enjoyment that any power tool, and I bought some of my
Festool stuff dog collars and chew toys. My favorite chisel is from
1837, beautiful little thing. I have a ~100 year old Two Cherries
chisel that I picked up when I bought a ship carpenter's tool chest.
That thing holds an edge like you would not believe. I sharpen all my
other chisels two of three times for one sharpening of the Two
Cherries.
So of course I'm spoiled. I have advantages that few people have with
my tool collection. I have pretty much the exact tool I need, no
matter what I am doing. I have the dedicated molding planes sitting
on a shelf that cut one specific profile. I pick it up and it's ready
to go.
So you can tell I'm a tool junkie, by now, and I have an arsenal of
both hand and power tools at my disposal. I am not the fastest person
with either, and I pick my battles. But when I'm looking for quality,
and people are paying for it, we both enjoy it more when the hand
tools are broken out.
R
* More on the floor scraping (if anyone hasn't fallen asleep by now).
Normally I would have just sanded off the paper, like everybody else,
but that clogs paper and I wanted to try something a little different,
so I used the scrapers. I was planning on writing an article about it
for a little historical flavor for one of the flooring trade journals
- I just never got around to writing the article. I have a bunch, so
I tested and compared the Stanley 12, 12 1/2, 70 box scraper, 80, 81,
82, 83 and 112 (I wish I had the 11). Surprisingly enough, or maybe
not surprisingly at all, the 70 box scraper was the winner. I guess
that should be no surprise because it was designed to remove paper
labels from wood shipping crates so they could be reused. Hand
scraping was a _lot_ of work. I would not want to do that everyday,
but it was not all that much slower than sanding it off and having to
change paper on the machine a couple of times. Granted this was a
small foyer, and there's no way in hell that scraping off the paper on
a larger floor would make sense unless you were looking to punish
someone. I still ended up sanding the floor as I don't have a
74...I've never even seen a 74, but I would liked to have tried it out
to see how it would have performed.
On Feb 1, 8:20=A0am, Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Feb 1, 1:08=A0am, "CW" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > True. Power tools do not make a man less of a craftsman, it just makes =
him
> > more efficient.
>
> ...AND more accurate if he knows what he's doing.
More accurate? Elaborate please. Unless, of course, you're talking
about woodworking accuracy beyond a few thousandths. If you're
talking about four decimal places, then that's a waste of time and not
efficient.
R
On Feb 6, 2:34=A0pm, -MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 2/6/11 1:13 PM, RicodJour wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Feb 6, 1:41 pm, -MIKE-<[email protected]> =A0wrote:
> >> On 2/6/11 12:32 PM, RicodJour wrote:
>
> >>> On Feb 6, 1:10 pm, -MIKE-<[email protected]> =A0 =A0wrote:
>
> >>>> I'm not talking about the creative side of it. =A0About all I could =
ever
> >>>> make from play-dough was a multi-colored turd. =A0I'm just talking a=
bout
> >>>> the dexterity and accuracy one attains, fairly quickly, with a chain=
saw.
>
> >>> What size/weight chainsaw were you playing around with when you were
> >>> trying it out?
>
> >> Tiny.... I think it was a 15 Husqvarna.
>
> > Okay, thanks. =A0The reason I was asking is that the owner had a tree
> > cut down on one project I was working on, and I had them leave a 3.5'
> > stump with the idea that at some point I'd chainsaw carve it. =A0I have
> > a buddy who goes through collecting phases, and currently he's
> > collecting chainsaws - go figure. =A0So, maybe it's about time.
>
> > R
>
> The college I went to was a tech school..... 13th & 14th grade, really. :=
-)
> They taught forestry which included chainsaw training. They used
> everything from little toy-looking saws to the ones so long they had to
> go diagonal in the bed of a pickup.
>
> Each year they had a big festival with all kinds of competitions like
> those timber sports events you see on espn... in fact espn started
> covering this one. Anyway, they had dozens of guys doing chainsaw
> art/carvings from wood and ice. IIRC, they all used the smaller, lighter
> chainsaws to do that work.
>
I worked a summer job for a surveyor company and we had to blaze
trails to set up monument systems for the Bruce Nuclear development.
I got to appreciate smaller, powerful chainsaws, Husqies my preferred
ones over the others. That was late 60's, nothing fancy like automatic
anything...Oh and I sure got to appreciate the protective legs covers
first hand.
In article <[email protected]>,
Puckdropper wrote:
> Maybe you could helpfully direct them to the episode of Woodwright's Shop
> where Roy explained how the breadboard ends worked. *grin*
>
> I think it was "Harvard Side Table."
>
> Puckdropper
Try this...
http://www.pbs.org/woodwrightsshop/video/2900/2908.html
Joe
aka 10x
On Feb 4, 3:19 pm, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 2/4/2011 11:30 AM, RicodJour wrote:
>
> > Deflect as you will, you know that everything I mentioned is true.
> > Yes, there were some digs in there, but it's all factual based on
> > those pictures.
>
> > You ignore code, you allow and/or do shoddy workmanship (whether it's
> > your house or built for someone else - that wasn't clear), you
> > apparently wing all of your construction details and can't or won't
> > plan ahead.
>
> > You said you've spent 60 years hanging around woodshops. You should
> > have spent more time hanging around construction sites.
>
> Dude! You will want to be a lot more careful with false, libelous
> accusations in this day and age. Posting though google groups will not
> protect your anonymity and the above meets ALL the requirements for
> libel in written, broadcast, or otherwise published words.
>
> I was trying to be lighthearted with you, and not everyone will be as
> understanding ... that is no longer the case.
>
> Do not continue as above ... word to the wise.
>
> BTW, the deck in question was built to code and passed all required
> inspections. That is documented and provable.
So let me see if I understand the situation.
You are messing around on the playground, you piss in someone's
lunchbox, and when the other kid pisses back in your lunchbox you
threaten to tell the teacher. That about sum it up, Karl?
There are lots of types on Usenet, but you're a unique one, for sure.
I've spent more time on construction and home repair newsgroups as
those are where I have the most experience. There are people who enjoy
busting my balls, and I enjoy busting their balls, mainly in good fun
(Josepi being an exception that I doubt you'll disagree with), but
you're one of the first seemingly sane people who has a god complex
about their answers. You seem to think you're the Pope of Woodworking
and your answers are infallible. Sorry, but neither you or the guy
with the funny lacrosse stick is infallible. Yep, you have some
chops, and for the most part you do know what you're talking about,
and I respect that, but, well, sometimes you're just a couple of rungs
from the top of the ladder. It's a fooking forum, Karl, not your
house and I'm not your guest. If you're wrong, I'll point it out.
It's as simple as that.
I went back to see when you and I had our first interaction - it's
interesting, check it out:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.woodworking/browse_thread/thread/78b6077c311ab919/897bf140f30a689?hl=en&q=swingman+author:ricodjour#0897bf140f30a689
Do you find that interesting? I find that interesting. I really got
a kick out of your last post in that thread.
On Mar 24 2007, 12:53 pm, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "RicodJour" wrote in message
> > Quite sufficient? Really? Using plywood to support stone is
> > insufficient in any cantilever situation.
>
> Like all blanket statements, both erroneous and demonstrating a basic
> misunderstanding of engineering and construction techniques.
I had a good laugh at that one. Please note I did not try to flaunt
my background or anything like that at any time to support my
opinion. We've both met MDs, PEs and Archs that we wouldn't trust as
far as we could throw them. Initials after a name don't do it for
me. Also note that Robatoy, who has more countertop experience than
both of us combined, agreed with me in that post. You took that as
sucking up to him, when it was simply treating each other with
respect. I've had recent differences with him when he goes off on his
WTF-are-you-guys-south-of-the-border-doing?! schtick, and I give him
grief for that, even though I am often wondering the same thing. But
the only time I truly bust somebody's balls is when they're acting
like an a-hole defending something they really shouldn't be defending.
As far as your work and what I wrote - you deserved a spanking. You
challenged me by posting your stuff, and I accepted that challenge.
But you are right on one count - I don't know what particular codes
hold sway in your neck of the woods. I know generally it's the IRC,
but I also know that Texas likes to do things their own way. I won't
be churlish and demand to see documented proof, as we both know that
is ridiculous for any number of reasons.
The bottom line is - you treat me with respect and I will treat you
with respect, even if - excuse me - even when we disagree. If you
don't treat me with respect, I may or may not treat you with respect
depending on my mood at that moment, and I will reserve the right to
bust your balls as I see fit. Your call, I'm okay with either, though
I would prefer the former.
As a little token, and to show you what a stand up guy I am, I'll
offer up something for nothing. Enjoy.
https://txcpa.cpa.state.tx.us/up/Search.jsp
Type in your last name, and a belated Merry Christmas. Buy something
Festool, or some nice handplanes, on me.
R
On Feb 7, 5:40=A0am, "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> On Feb 5, 10:00=A0pm, RicodJour <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > * Assuming that Karl is your real name. =A0I've never met you, I've
> > never seen you, I don't know anyone that knows you,
>
> For crying out loud, do you have to keep this endless stream of
> pedantic, stilted horseshit going on to make sure you get the last
> word? =A0Is being thought of as =93right=94 that important to you?
>
> Are you thinking Karl might be a 16 year old girl? =A0A Martian? =A0Lee
> Harvey Oswald? =A0What does that even mean? =A0Did you stick your tongue
> out and wiggle your fingers behind your ears when you wrote that?
>
> I know Karl. =A0And his wife Linda. =A0I have met one of his children, a
> charming young lady. =A0I sat in chairs he built, and ate a table me
> made and finished himself. =A0I have seen *many* pieces of fine
> furniture he designed built, all of which were top craftsman quality.
> I have even seen production cabinets that were in process, all
> impressive examples of custom quality.
>
> I stayed in the man=92s house and was privileged to his hospitality,
> including his home. =A0He lives in a house he =A0restored and renovated, =
a
> large old house (20's, maybe?) that is a lovely, warm place to be.
> With his wife as his decorator and design partner, they also restored
> another house I also visited. =A0His expertise and practical experience
> in building is evident at every turn with just those two houses as
> they not only restored the houses to the convoluted codes of their
> area of Houston, but also kept them within the demands of their
> historical committee. =A0 He has the pictures and slide show made up to
> showing several of the other homes he has built.
>
> He=92s real alright. =A0And he can back up what he says.
>
> Karl doesn=92t need me to take his part. =A0He is perfectly capable of hi=
s
> own verbal defense, but shit, this is really getting annoying. =A0You
> taunt, insult, and worse than a nagging wife, insist on that last,
> walking away snipe.
>
> WTF was this if it wasn=92t a taunt?
>
> > =A0a little token, and to show you what a stand up guy I am, I'll
> > =A0offer up something for nothing. =A0Enjoy.
>
> =A0=93Here bitch, let me throw your dumbass a bone from my magnanimous
> self=94. =A0It meant nothing to you of course, cost you nothing, but you
> want to play the big man and give him a lead on his own money? =A0 You
> could just feel the sarcasm.
>
> If you were more full of horseshit it would blast out of you like
> Yellowstone=92s geyser. =A0YOU were snooping around, looking for some kin=
d
> of shit on Karl, and that=92s how you found that lead. =A0YOU were the on=
e
> looking for some kind of crap to post here, Googling away in the
> sewers of the internet to find something you could you use to
> embarrass him. =A0I wouldn=92t believe for one moment that you were simpl=
y
> looking around the net and happened on the Texas Unclaimed Property
> site, and out of the blue your old pal Karl=92s name came up as if by
> magic.
>
> No sir. =A0You were shit digging. =A0And to prove it even further, you
> know his name, as well as his last name, something none of us know
> about you. =A0So since you actually do know his name as witnessed by
> your intense search results to find his personal information, I=92ll
> have to pull one from the guys that work for me.
>
> Say the name, bitch. =A0You know it.
>
> Yup.... it=92s Karl.
>
> Robert
Feel better?
I got it, you like the guy. I appreciate that you feel you are
sticking up for your buddy. As far as I'm concerned it's like I said
earlier. He pisses on my shoes, I piss on his. Not sure why you feel
the need to get involved, but, whatever. Please do me the favor of
going back to the post you quoted at the start, the one where you
quoted the one line, and read the one or two sentences I wrote after
that - including the smiley. It was an Obama birth certificate
tempest in a teapot reference. Not sure why you'd edit out the last
two sentences that made that clear.
As far as the unclaimed funds thing - I do that for everybody I meet.
I started doing it for friends and family when I first ran across the
stuff online, and found that there is almost always unclaimed money
out there that people don't know about. So I find it, and point them
to it. What I get out of it is a feeling of satisfaction. They get
money. Everybody wins.*
Karl's got a boatload of money sitting there. The only thing he
couldn't like about that was that I'm the one that pointed it out. I
thought about it long and hard, and frankly, well, I didn't know how
_not_ to tell him and still feel good about myself. Whether he acts
like a dick to me, and I in return act like a dick to him, doesn't
mean that I will just ignore basic principles.
Let me ask you a question - what do you think I should have done?
Should I have kept my mouth shut about the money? Would you have?
R
* If anyone is interested http://www.unclaimed.org/ allows you to
search for unclaimed property/funds from a number of states from one
web site. Not all states are covered. If your state is not, just
DAGS the name of your state and unclaimed property and the first hit
should be the right place.
Sonny <[email protected]> wrote in news:b7ebc2e9-987c-4293-ba14-
[email protected]:
> The "Rough Cut" host may not be calling all the shots, as to what he
> demonstrates and says. Woodcraft may not be just a sponsor, but may
> be directly funding the show's production. The show hasn't been on
> very long. Give them a little time to get their act/a better act,
> together. Maybe they'd like the viewer's feedback, too.
>
> Sonny
>
Maybe you could helpfully direct them to the episode of Woodwright's Shop
where Roy explained how the breadboard ends worked. *grin*
I think it was "Harvard Side Table."
Puckdropper
Hoosierpopi <[email protected]> wrote in news:56500bc8-1010-4578-
[email protected]:
>
> We just found Rough Cut a week or so ago guys. We also watch Roy and
> Norm and other WW Shows.
>
> Guys, the other night my wife said out loud "I like him," when I
> suggested watching Rough Cut.
>
> But guys, his personality bugs me a bit guys as I, too, am most
> interested in techniques and know damned well that that jig took him
> more than five minutes to make.
>
> Guys, I'd like to see a Woodworking On A Budget show where the host
> used his own shop worn equipment instead of the latest and greatest
> tools (available at WoodSmith & Company).
>
You forgot a few "look it"'s. I hope that's just the effect of 1st
season jitters.
The Woodworking on a Budget show sounds interesting. The host is given a
small budget every show (say $100) and must build his project for that.
Leftover money accumulates for bigger purchases. You can do a lot very
quickly for $100 in 2x4s.
Puckdropper
On Jan 30, 11:36 pm, RicodJour <[email protected]> wrote:
> Power tools are just an extension of the industrial revolution's aim
> to obviate operator skill in favor of cheap labor.
Damn. And all this time I thought it was all about efficiency.
Max
Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote in
news:1c119a1b-c226-44b4-8cf3-c3ae7ee17b43@k32g2000vbn.googlegroups.com:
> On Feb 1, 1:08 am, "CW" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> True. Power tools do not make a man less of a craftsman, it just
>> makes hi
> m
>> more efficient.
>
> ...AND more accurate if he knows what he's doing.
>
You know... I think I can make a serious mistake with a hand tool just as
fast as I do with a power tool. Maybe there's a lower limit to the
efficiency/accuracy measurement. :-)
Puckdropper
"Larry Blanchard" wrote
>
> BTW, there's a story on that spokeshave. I tried to find out how old it
> was. Best I could do was pre-1910. So when antiques road show came to
> town I took it in. The expert said it was from the 1800s (I forget the
> exact year), was the best condition he'd ever seen, and could well have
> been part of the first production run of that model. I thanked him for
> the info and said I would be using the spokeshave. He looked at me and
> said "Don't you dare!" - I think of that each time I even look at the
> spokeshave :-).
>
-----------------
Well......, when are you going to tell us??
HOW MUCH WAS IT WORTH???
<tapping foot>
"Swingman" wrote:
> I helped my grandfather and an uncle build/add on to their houses in
> the middle of the last century, with nothing but hand tools. My dad
> and I built all our barns, and a duck hunting boat, with nothing but
> hand tools in the early 50's ... thank gawd for electricity.
----------------------------------
My parents built a house in the middle of a 2 acre woods in 1947.
The house setting required the electric utility to set a pole about
20-30 feet from the house and pull a service.
The contractor wouldn't start to work until electric was available
(Dad should have used an Amish contractor).
As June 1 came and went without power being pulled, my dad took a day
off the road (he was an outside salesman) and drove the 20-30 miles to
the utility office.
He entered the utility office, the receptionist asked how they cloud
help my dad.
My dad asked if she could tell him who in the place took the most
baths?
Puzzled, the receptionist asked why he wanted to know.
Dad replied, "Mame, if I have to kiss somebody's ass to get some
electricity pulled, I want to kiss the cleanest one."
Next day, utility was setting a pole.
Day after that, contractor started work.
We barely made moving in before New Year's day, but we did it.
Lew
On Feb 5, 8:37 pm, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 2/5/2011 6:35 PM, RicodJour wrote:
>
> <snipped hot air, of the most despicable kind, anonymous>
>
> > don't treat me with respect, I may or may not treat you with respect
> > depending on my mood at that moment, and I will reserve the right to
> > bust your balls as I see fit.
>
> I'm more than happy to take your best shots, Bubba ... Fire away.
>
> But it'll take real balls, something anonymity belies.
>
> The question, as it always has been, is whether you have sufficient
> chops ... an always doubtful state of affairs for those relying on
> anonymity as a shield for falsehoods.
>
> Until you stop hiding, you're the joke.
Sigh. My dear, Karl*, as I said earlier, yelling, "Hey! I'm a maroon
impress me!" won't elicit good results.
I promise one day I will show you my work, but it won't be on the
internet. If it means that much to you I don't mind taking a
vacation. We'll go to a bar, listen to some music, and I'll show you
my work in person. You can admit in the anonymity of a bar that
you've been acting childish for years. And you won't have to do it in
front of other people on the internet. You'll be able to save face,
and I also promise that I'll never mention it in any newsgroup at any
time. I'm big like that. I'll buy the first round. Beer only, so
don't go pulling any of that top shelf stuff. I'm quite serious.
I do have one question. Since you reject everything I say, does that
mean you're not going to go after the unclaimed property money I found
for you in that link I posted earlier? I didn't have to do that. If
I wanted to 'hurt' you I could have simply kept my mouth shut, right?
It's quite a bit of money, too. I'm guessing 1950 shares of stock has
to be, what? Twenty or thirty grand? I just paid your mortgage for a
year or two, and I didn't even get a thank you. If you reject my
efforts on your behalf, and you've let your attention to detail lapse
in this matter as well, for 18 years, hell, you obviously don't need
the money, so why don't you donate it? Donating it in my name,
anonymous, would be a gentlemanly and charitable thing to do. I'll
still buy the first round either way.
R
* Assuming that Karl is your real name. I've never met you, I've
never seen you, I don't know anyone that knows you, and I've never
seen your birth certificate. For all I know you were born in Kenya.
Post your notarized birth certificate forthwith! ;)
On Feb 4, 9:13=A0am, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 2/4/2011 12:21 AM, RicodJour wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Feb 1, 7:58 pm, Swingman<[email protected]> =A0wrote:
> >> On 2/1/2011 4:11 PM, RicodJour wrote:
>
> >>>> and somehow you seem to feel that's a threat
> >>>> to you and you want to start whipping out dicks.
>
> >> And yes, my deck is indeed bigger than yours:
>
> >>http://picasaweb.google.com/karlcaillouet/Deck?authkey=3DGv1sRgCLDfivea=
...
>
> >> Your turn ... :)
>
> > Hi, Karl. =A0Thanks for inviting me to play. =A0This should be fun.
> > Straight off the bat I should point out that I admit you are a bigger
> > deck, but I am not quite sure what that thing in those pictures is
> > supposed to be. =A0It almost looks like a deck, but I can't be quite
> > sure until it's finished. =A0I guess you posted the link to those
> > pictures for me so I could help you out with some of the details. =A0No
> > problem, I have a little free time so I'll work up a punchlist for
> > you. =A0Don't worry, there's no charge!
>
> LMAO ... you need to do something for that cabin fever, Bubba. Good
> thing for you spring is just around the corner. Still a little mental
> hygiene may be in order ... get out, go to a mall, mix with something
> besides a keyboard. It'll do you good.
>
> <that should put me way ahead on the intrinsic worth of the advice being
> proffered> ;)
Deflect as you will, you know that everything I mentioned is true.
Yes, there were some digs in there, but it's all factual based on
those pictures.
You ignore code, you allow and/or do shoddy workmanship (whether it's
your house or built for someone else - that wasn't clear), you
apparently wing all of your construction details and can't or won't
plan ahead.
You said you've spent 60 years hanging around woodshops. You should
have spent more time hanging around construction sites.
R
On Jan 30, 12:41=A0pm, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
> Methinks the lad would quickly grab for a tailed tool or two, or more ...
>
> Often our trueness to our Normite/Neander philosophy depends upon
> whether you need to make a living at it or not. :)
Well, I have been sick. Otherwise, I don't think I would have missed
that chestnut.
I have made that argument many a time to the devoted *home
woodworker*, but they don't get it.
You can be as dedicated, take as long as you want, and be as true to
wood work as you think necessary to satisfy your inner Duncan Phyfe if
you aren't charged with making a living doing it day in and day out in
a hyper-competitive market.
Robert
<[email protected]> wrote in message
> Time to man up. You were caught being a chickenshit. Better to let
> it go than to keep heaping on more asinine baloney.
I have to agree with your entire assessment. It occurs to me that if he's so
capable of finding all this money for people, then it sounds like an ideal
model for a business. Advertising that he can find lost money for a
percentage of the money found would certainly bring out the clients. No
money found, no charge. When authorized to look for that lost money by a
client and then finding it would make him look good and the clients happy.
Seems to me like he's lost or ignored an excellent opportunity.
On Jan 29, 1:15=A0pm, Larry Blanchard <[email protected]> wrote:
> I think I watched my last episode of Rough Cut this morning. =A0He built =
a
> trestle table. =A0The only part that needed explanation was the breadboae=
d
> ends. =A0His comment "All I've got left to do is glue on the ends" and th=
at
> was all he said. =A0Sheeesh!
>
> I'm going to write to Woodcraft. =A0As an ex-employee I'm ashamed they're
> sponsoring it.
>
> --
> Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw
We just found Rough Cut a week or so ago guys. We also watch Roy and
Norm and other WW Shows.
Guys, the other night my wife said out loud "I like him," when I
suggested watching Rough Cut.
But guys, his personality bugs me a bit guys as I, too, am most
interested in techniques and know damned well that that jig took him
more than five minutes to make.
Guys, I'd like to see a Woodworking On A Budget show where the host
used his own shop worn equipment instead of the latest and greatest
tools (available at WoodSmith & Company).
On Jan 29, 2:52=A0pm, "John Grossbohlin"
<[email protected]> wrote:
> "Bill" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...
>
> > RicodJour wrote:
>
> > > <snip>
>
> >> If you don't like hand tools, the song of a sharp plane, and need to
> >> hear a motor roaring to feel you're really working (or believing the
> >> machine always does it faster), then Roy's show is certainly not for
> >> you. =A0Me? =A0The more I watch the guy the more I appreciate him and =
what
> >> he does.
>
> >> R
>
> > Just curious--are those reruns or is Roy Underhill still making new sho=
ws?
>
> He's still shooting... and he has a school now:
>
> http://www.pbs.org/woodwrightsshop/
>
> http://www.woodwrightschool.com/
I didn't know Roy started a school. Most excellent! The stuff on his
web site certainly made me smile.
"TOOLS: You=92ll be doing early Anglo-American style joinery with
English-style tools. That=92s what this class is about - early music
played on the original instruments. Many people like to work with
Japanese tools these days, but we will not be using them in this
class. As one respected teacher put it, =93That would be like stir-
frying grits.=94
I will have all the tools you=92ll need for the workshop waiting on your
bench. You may certainly bring your own tools if you wish. Please note
that tape measures are not permitted in the building, Normite
propaganda will be denounced, and any tools with plastic handles must
be hidden when I walk by.
DRESS CODE: Dress code? In keeping with our efforts to make the
Woodwright=92s School look as if it were 1937, please wear clothing that
would not look out of place in that time period. When you enter this
vintage environment, you become a part of it. I=92ll have a few shop
coats to cover anyone who forgets and wears a logo T-shirt. We=92ll
shoot a group photo for you to take home."
The guy's got a sense of humor. I wonder how much of that is edited
out for TV to be politically correct.
R
On Sat, 29 Jan 2011 14:07:08 -0500, Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
>RicodJour wrote:
>
> > <snip>
>
>> If you don't like hand tools, the song of a sharp plane, and need to
>> hear a motor roaring to feel you're really working (or believing the
>> machine always does it faster), then Roy's show is certainly not for
>> you. Me? The more I watch the guy the more I appreciate him and what
>> he does.
>>
>> R
>
>Just curious--are those reruns or is Roy Underhill still making new shows?
>
>Bill
According to the web site Roy is in his 30th season and still making
new shows.
http://www.pbs.org/woodwrightsshop/about/index.html
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
On Feb 5, 10:00=A0pm, RicodJour <[email protected]> wrote:
> * Assuming that Karl is your real name. =A0I've never met you, I've
> never seen you, I don't know anyone that knows you,
For crying out loud, do you have to keep this endless stream of
pedantic, stilted horseshit going on to make sure you get the last
word? Is being thought of as =93right=94 that important to you?
Are you thinking Karl might be a 16 year old girl? A Martian? Lee
Harvey Oswald? What does that even mean? Did you stick your tongue
out and wiggle your fingers behind your ears when you wrote that?
I know Karl. And his wife Linda. I have met one of his children, a
charming young lady. I sat in chairs he built, and ate a table me
made and finished himself. I have seen *many* pieces of fine
furniture he designed built, all of which were top craftsman quality.
I have even seen production cabinets that were in process, all
impressive examples of custom quality.
I stayed in the man=92s house and was privileged to his hospitality,
including his home. He lives in a house he restored and renovated, a
large old house (20's, maybe?) that is a lovely, warm place to be.
With his wife as his decorator and design partner, they also restored
another house I also visited. His expertise and practical experience
in building is evident at every turn with just those two houses as
they not only restored the houses to the convoluted codes of their
area of Houston, but also kept them within the demands of their
historical committee. He has the pictures and slide show made up to
showing several of the other homes he has built.
He=92s real alright. And he can back up what he says.
Karl doesn=92t need me to take his part. He is perfectly capable of his
own verbal defense, but shit, this is really getting annoying. You
taunt, insult, and worse than a nagging wife, insist on that last,
walking away snipe.
WTF was this if it wasn=92t a taunt?
> a little token, and to show you what a stand up guy I am, I'll
> offer up something for nothing. Enjoy.
=93Here bitch, let me throw your dumbass a bone from my magnanimous
self=94. It meant nothing to you of course, cost you nothing, but you
want to play the big man and give him a lead on his own money? You
could just feel the sarcasm.
If you were more full of horseshit it would blast out of you like
Yellowstone=92s geyser. YOU were snooping around, looking for some kind
of shit on Karl, and that=92s how you found that lead. YOU were the one
looking for some kind of crap to post here, Googling away in the
sewers of the internet to find something you could you use to
embarrass him. I wouldn=92t believe for one moment that you were simply
looking around the net and happened on the Texas Unclaimed Property
site, and out of the blue your old pal Karl=92s name came up as if by
magic.
No sir. You were shit digging. And to prove it even further, you
know his name, as well as his last name, something none of us know
about you. So since you actually do know his name as witnessed by
your intense search results to find his personal information, I=92ll
have to pull one from the guys that work for me.
Say the name, bitch. You know it.
Yup.... it=92s Karl.
Robert
On Feb 1, 1:08=A0am, "CW" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Max" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > On Jan 30, 11:36 pm, RicodJour <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >> Power tools are just an extension of the industrial revolution's aim
> >> to obviate operator skill in favor of cheap labor.
>
> > Damn. =A0And all this time I thought it was all about efficiency.
>
> True. Power tools do not make a man less of a craftsman
I agree with that for the most part. Let's try the converse:
Power tools do not make a man more of a craftsman.
Do you agree with that as well?
> it just makes him more efficient.
Yes, just as learning to use his hand tools with more skill would make
him more efficient.
Nobody and nothing has a lock on efficiency. How many times have you
walked into an inefficiently set up shop that's brimming with the
latest and greatest tools? How many times have you seen a skilled
person doing something in an inefficient way?
R
On Jan 29, 7:16=A0pm, Sonny <[email protected]> wrote:
> The "Rough Cut" host may not be calling all the shots, as to what he
> demonstrates and says. =A0Woodcraft may not be just a sponsor, but may
> be directly funding the show's production. =A0The show hasn't been on
> very long. =A0Give them a little time to get their act/a better act,
> together. =A0Maybe they'd like the viewer's feedback, too.
>
> Sonny
Tommy Mac is sure he needs some feedback and he knows he's a little
rough. There is a thread on Lumberjocks where he addresses this. On
the Binghamton PBS station, he's bumped Norm out of his time slot. I
miis Norm but new stuff is hard to beat.
I think Tommy is real talented and is willing to show off some of his
skills and teach us less fortunate ones that do not have our own TV
shows how to do it. We should watch and be patient and see how he
evolves. I sure wish David Marks would come back. There's some real
talent there. I wonder if he got sick of people in his shop and gave
them the boot?
RP
On Jan 31, 12:15=A0am, Larry Jaques <[email protected]>
wrote:
> On Sun, 30 Jan 2011 18:04:18 -0800, "Artemus" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >"Bill" <[email protected]> wrote in messagenews:[email protected].=
com...
>
> >> I watched him do it today on "The Woodworking Shows" complimentary sho=
w
> >> DVD. How the heck can he turn his bow saw so quick when he's cutting o=
ut
> >> the waste between tenons??? =A0I don't have a saw like his, but it's
> >> amazing (he probably did some trimming, but that part wasn't show it i=
n
> >> the DVD).
>
> >> Bill
>
> >A few years ago at one of TWWS I saw a guy cut around a corner
> >with a bowsaw without rotating the frame. =A0After his presentation I
> >took a look at his bowsaw. =A0It had a 90 degree twist in the center of =
the
> >blade (for maybe 1/4 or less of the blade length). =A0So using the front
> >section he could cut straight down, the center turned the corner and the
> >rear section cut horizontally. =A0Maybe Klausz did it like that?
>
> Frank used chisels and dovetail saws, no others, in the classes I
> helped him with at the American WW Shows in Ontario, CA a decade ago.
> I volunteered as a gofer. =A0He also did a 3-day seminar on woodworking
> in Sandy Eggo a few years before that. =A0I had a blast.
>
> Here's the saw he was using for the Am WW Show classes:http://www.craftsm=
anstudio.com/html_p/A!500.htm
When I saw Klausz do his thing, I guess about four years ago, he was
using this saw:
http://www.adriatools.com/handsaw/dovetail_saw.html
I don't have one, but in checking out that page I was fairly well
shocked to see that Adria offers a 100% money back guarantee for a
year. That's confidence in your tool quality, fer sure.
R
On Feb 2, 7:47=A0am, "Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote:
> RicodJour wrote:
>
> > I pick and choose what projects I do, and only projects that interest
> > me,... =A0I turn work down because I don't like the people, and don't w=
ant
> > to work with/for them.
>
> Hey - I figured out who you really are! =A0You were the Soup Nazi, weren'=
t
> you???
I wish I could grow a mustache that nice. I do like soup, though.
Seriously, I will have to consider the similarities.
R
On Feb 8, 3:21=A0am, "Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote:
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > Time to man up. =A0You were caught being a chickenshit. =A0Better to le=
t
> > it go than to keep heaping on more asinine baloney.
>
> I have to agree with your entire assessment. It occurs to me that if he's=
so
> capable of finding all this money for people, then it sounds like an idea=
l
> model for a business. Advertising that he can find lost money for a
> percentage of the money found would certainly bring out the clients. No
> money found, no charge. When authorized to look for that lost money by a
> client and then finding it would make him look good and the clients happy=
.
> Seems to me like he's lost or ignored an excellent opportunity.
There are already lots of businesses that do exactly that.
http://www.google.com/#sclient=3Dpsy&hl=3Den&q=3Dunclaimed+property+finders=
+fees&aq=3D1&aqi=3Dg2g-v3&aql=3D&oq=3D&pbx=3D1&fp=3D2608ddb53883967
Some states regulate the fees, others prohibit charging a fee once
it's on the state list.
R
On Feb 7, 5:40=A0am, "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> On Feb 5, 10:00=A0pm, RicodJour <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > * Assuming that Karl is your real name. =A0I've never met you, I've
> > never seen you, I don't know anyone that knows you,
>
> For crying out loud, do you have to keep this endless stream of
> pedantic, stilted horseshit going on to make sure you get the last
> word? =A0Is being thought of as =93right=94 that important to you?
I was involved in a 'discussion' with someone else and was viewing the
whole thing subjectively. You are of course right, and it is being
inflicted on the newsgroup. I made my point and have nothing else to
say on the matter. Thanks for pointing this out to me.
R
On Feb 7, 10:57 am, RicodJour <[email protected]> wrote:
> As far as the unclaimed funds thing - I do that for everybody I meet.
> I started doing it for friends and family when I first ran across the
> stuff online, and found that there is almost always unclaimed money
> out there that people don't know about. So I find it, and point them
> to it. What I get out of it is a feeling of satisfaction. They get
> money. Everybody wins.*
This has gone from completely ridiculous to sheer absurdity. I almost
fell out of my chair.... you do that for everyone you meet? What
would possess you to do that? Friends, family, associates, internet
contacts you are digging up dirt on? Really?
WTF is next? Will you next declare you research the automobiles of
=93everybody=94 you meet (????) for recall notices? It would take a lot
less effort you know, but hell, at least you could tell people you
were saving lives.
Do you make sure =93everyone you meet=94 gets the best rate on their CDs?
(You know, while you are fooling around in their financial affairs...)
Come on. There is really lame, and then there is completely
unbelievable.
Want proof? Really?
To how many others here on this newsgroup have you provided this
altruistic, selfless expenditure of your efforts? How many others
have you so thoughtlessly given away your time to making sure they
have no unclaimed property available to them?
Are you kidding? There are plenty here that have posted their first
and last names, and some even use them in their posting name. Yet
this is the first time I have ever heard of anyone (including you)
looking into the Unclaimed Property Registry as a favor to the people
they meet here. Incredible you would even make that claim.
In fact, around here Karl seems to be the only one you have extended
this fantastically thoughtful gesture to in keeping with your
description of =93everybody=94.
> Karl's got a boatload of money sitting there. The only thing he
> couldn't like about that was that I'm the one that pointed it out. I
> thought about it long and hard, and frankly, well, I didn't know how
> _not_ to tell him and still feel good about myself. Whether he acts
> like a dick to me, and I in return act like a dick to him, doesn't
> mean that I will just ignore basic principles.
Well, a couple of thoughts crossed my mind after digging out of the
baloney. 1st - maybe Karl insn=92t interested in your help. Hard to
believe he would turn down a generous benefactor like yourself that is
simply interested in helping others, but that could indeed be the
case. And 2nd, you seem to feel pretty good about yourself; anyone
that could spin out these yarns for all to see with confidence
probably doesn=92t have a self esteem problem. ( No... don=92t post all
your credentials again. I saw them all.) If I were you, I wouldn=92t
worry to much about how badly I felt if I was minding my own business.
As far as you taking the high road and opting not to ignore basic
principles that is a bit high minded for someone that posts personal
financial information on an international platform. I don=92t know; I
was guessing you meant basic principles of personal decorum, but after
reading your post I realize you don=92t observe those.
> Let me ask you a question - what do you think I should have done?
> Should I have kept my mouth shut about the money? Would you have?
Sorry.... no deflection allowed here. A bad attempt to turn the
tables and make yourself look like you are being called out for just
trying to be a great guy. A thoughtful man that helps everyone he
meets.
Horseshit. You were digging for dirt and didn=92t think it through
before you posted. For a man that claims to be so smart, you sure
didn=92t think how it would look for you to be snooping around in his
affairs. You didn=92t find that money, nor bring it up here because you
are just a great guy providing the same service to Karl you provide to
=93everyone=94. You just wanted to look like a big man to the boys.
I would never have to face the burning, ethically challenging, moral
question of
> Let me ask you a question - what do you think I should have done?
> Should I have kept my mouth shut about the money? Would you have?
because I wouldn=92t have been snooping into anyone=92s private affairs in
that depth. Certainly not over having my feelings hurt in a petty
internet dust up.
> Let me ask you a question - what do you think I should have done?
> Should I have kept my mouth shut about the money? Would you have?
A bad straw man argument indeed. A deflection tactic brought to
argumentative fruition by the introduction of a self created moral
dilemma.
Time to man up. You were caught being a chickenshit. Better to let
it go than to keep heaping on more asinine baloney.
Robert
On Jan 31, 8:44=A0pm, "CW" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "RicodJour" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> Power tools are just an extension of the industrial revolution's aim
> to obviate operator skill in favor of cheap labor. =A0There's also the
> question of cost in outfitting a shop. =A0A complete joiner's shop back
> in the day fit in a 3'x2'x2' box. =A0Now a guy figures he can't do any
> work unless he has ten grand in tools - to start. =A0Journeymen
> carpenters walked around with a roll with their tools inside, often
> just the blades and bits, and made handles, benches and whatever else
> was needed on the spot.
>
> We've gained some with power tools, but we've lost just as much
> because of them. =A0I still wish that carpenters wore corduroy suits so
> we could see at a glance who was in the brotherhood.
>
> It is very obvious, by the above, that you do not build things for a livi=
ng.
This would be where you are wrong.
I design and build everything I do. I used to just design, when I was
first starting out. Designing without building is just as bad as
building without designing.
R
On Feb 1, 1:10=A0pm, RicodJour <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Feb 1, 8:20=A0am, Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > On Feb 1, 1:08=A0am, "CW" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > True. Power tools do not make a man less of a craftsman, it just make=
s him
> > > more efficient.
>
> > ...AND more accurate if he knows what he's doing.
>
> More accurate? =A0Elaborate please. =A0Unless, of course, you're talking
> about woodworking accuracy beyond a few thousandths. =A0If you're
> talking about four decimal places, then that's a waste of time and not
> efficient.
>
> R
Take exactly 1/4" off the side of a 2 x 6 it is the 1/4" strip I am
after.
Handsaw vs circular saw and fence...
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 1/30/2011 11:56 AM, Michael Kenefick wrote:
>
>>> If you don't like hand tools, the song of a sharp plane, and need to
>>> hear a motor roaring to feel you're really working (or believing the
>>> machine always does it faster), then Roy's show is certainly not for
>>> you. Me? The more I watch the guy the more I appreciate him and what
>>> he does.
>
> I like Roy, his show, appreciate what he does, and the fact that he is
> also one of the nicest guys around ... but what do you reckon his response
> would be if I told him that he, and one partner, must build, to designer
> spec, 28 wall and base cabinets, 20 dovetailed drawers, 6 shop built
> pullouts, 60 doors/drawer fronts, associated shelving, and install them in
> a precise dimensioned location in 30 days of work?
>
> Methinks the lad would quickly grab for a tailed tool or two, or more ...
>
> Often our trueness to our Normite/Neander philosophy depends upon whether
> you need to make a living at it or not. :)
...or you're messing with sheet goods and paint. ;~)
John
On 2/1/2011 12:07 PM, RicodJour wrote:
> On Feb 1, 5:24 am, Swingman<[email protected]> wrote:
>> Problem here is that you ignored/didn't address the topic in my post in
>> which you chose to insert your opinions. :)
>>
>> NBD, but doing so would have kept your assumptions from running rampant
>> down a path that doesn't exist.
>
> I don't answer set up questions such as, were you the stupidest kid on
> your bus?
Woodworking to me is not plywood and it is not just
> kitchens, modern or otherwise.
It is evident that "Kitchens" were simply used as an example to make a
point about tailed tools in my initial post, a fact which you continue
to ignore, but insist on misappropriating as a basis for your misguided
assumptions/purposes.
So, let's have a little 'show n' tell' to clear the air, shall we?
Just a sampling of my woodworking, such as it is (and obviously paltry
compared to a "real woodworker" of your apparent stature), is free for
the world to see in the link below, very little of which, you will note,
has anything to do with kitchens.
And, while we're tickled to have someone with your exalted expertise
offering opinions as how the world of woodworking is conducted, it would
be awfully upfront of you to actually show us some evidence of same.
(IIRC, this is not the first time this request has been made of you)
IOW, you indeed talk a good game, but do you really walk the talk?
Show us something besides hot air ... how about it?
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)
On Feb 1, 5:24 am, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 1/31/2011 8:51 PM, RicodJour wrote:
> > On Jan 31, 3:59 pm, Swingman<[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >> I'll buy that only when you can show me pictoral proof where either of
> >> these guys has built a complete modern kitchen with their untailed
> >> tools, bow saws and dovetail saws, one containing provisions for all the
> >> modern conveniences and accouterments expected in today's high end
> >> kitchens, and done in a sufficient time and manner to justify the labor
> >> costs to make a living at it ... .
>
> >> ... until then, I say horsedookie ... ;)
>
> > If woodworking to you is simply banging out 'modern' kitchens, then,
> > sure, you win. Funnily enough, I don't think MDF is wood and I'm
> > still on the fence about plywood being wood. I refuse to call working
> > something other than wood, woodworking - that's just me. It has
> > nothing to do with anyone else's preferences and predilections. You
> > like it, knock yourself out.
>
> Problem here is that you ignored/didn't address the topic in my post in
> which you chose to insert your opinions. :)
>
> NBD, but doing so would have kept your assumptions from running rampant
> down a path that doesn't exist.
I don't answer set up questions such as, were you the stupidest kid on
your bus? Woodworking to me is not plywood and it is not just
kitchens, modern or otherwise. Woodworking is a series of steps, and
some of them benefit from power tools, for one reason or another, and
others power tools are just as likely to mess up the work, and are an
actual hindrance, for one reason or another. Perhaps the reason that
you feel power tools are faster in all aspects of woodworking is that
you have never seen a truly fast person with hand tools. That's not
much of a surprise as hand work is pretty much a lost art at this
point.
Let me ask you a question, which, of course you are free to ignore if
you feel it is a setup.
You are proud of your kitchens. If you could invest an unlimited
amount of money into an unlimited size shop, and had CNC everything
where you could design a kitchen in Sketchup and press a button and
the parts would all be precut, would that make you more or less proud
of your work?
And another - do you use story poles? Tick sticking? You probably
use a lot of old time techniques that are just as valid as they were
back in the day.
As far as the labor costs and that stuff - that's just marketing. If
someone can't figure out a way to market their stuff so people see the
value in the product and are willing to pay a premium for the work,
that's not the fault of any tool, power or hand.
R
On Jan 31, 9:51=A0pm, RicodJour <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Jan 31, 3:59 pm, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > On 1/30/2011 10:36 PM, RicodJour wrote:
>
> > > For every this-is-why-power-tools-are-faster scenario you could come
> > > up with, I could come up with a scenario where hand tools are faster/
> > > better. =A0If you choose plywood batch cutting, I say running off 12'=
of
> > > custom molding to match period molding.
>
> > I'll buy that only when you can show me pictoral proof where either of
> > these guys has built a complete modern kitchen with their untailed
> > tools, bow saws and dovetail saws, one containing provisions for all th=
e
> > modern conveniences and accouterments expected in today's high end
> > kitchens, and done in a sufficient time and manner to justify the labor
> > costs to make a living at it ... .
>
> > ... until then, I say horsedookie ... ;)
>
> If woodworking to you is simply banging out 'modern' kitchens, then,
> sure, you win. =A0Funnily enough, I don't think MDF is wood and I'm
> still on the fence about plywood being wood. =A0I refuse to call working
> something other than wood, woodworking - that's just me. =A0It has
> nothing to do with anyone else's preferences and predilections. =A0You
> like it, knock yourself out.
>
> If we can't agree on what quality is, than there's no point in
> bringing up speed. =A0The reason that plywood and 'modern' kitchens came
> about partly due to a desire for _reasonable_ quality. =A0Primarily
> plywood and power tools came about for a desire for speed. =A0Speed that
> only highly skilled craftsmen could achieve. =A0Highly skilled craftsmen
> are, and always have been, in short supply and they always get top
> dollar. =A0This does not mesh well with Henry Ford's vision of the new
> world order.
>
> Wood and working wood has been around for thousands of years. =A0The
> Romans used steel hand planes. =A0No superior joint has been developed
> than a hand cut dovetail. =A0Some joints are faster, but there are no
> better joints, and the dovetail has been around for thousands of
> years. =A0I've seen lots of machine cut dovetail drawers give up the
> ghost, but hand cut dovetails stay together far better. =A0You need to
> trim the pins flush on a dovetail joint, do you reach for a sander?
> Power planer? =A0No, of course not, you reach for a plane. =A0It's faster=
,
> less likely to mess something up, and leaves a better finish.
> Evidence of hand work is a better finish.
>
> Which brings me to a bit of a tangent. =A0Have you ever done work that
> came out so well it looked fake? =A0I did a recent patterned parquet
> floor foyer entrance hall. =A0Walnut and white oak with walnut feature
> strips, fairly complicated layout to mirror the ceiling layout.
> Nice. =A0I cut all of the wood by hand and used hand scrapers to remove
> the backing (fronting?) paper.* =A0I had a friend stop by to take a look
> and I nearly died when he took a look and asked if it was linoleum. =A0I
> was kind of pissed when I realized he wasn't joking, then I realized
> that in a sorta kinda way it was a compliment. =A0The floor was too good
> - it did look fake. =A0Luckily God, humidity changes and a dog with long
> nails has remedied that.
>
> Back to our discusion (or my diatribe, depending on where you're
> sitting).
> Where has that quest for speed gotten us? =A0It's gotten us to the point
> that we've lost tons of information about working wood. =A0Nobody sets
> out to waste time...well, at least not when working, and the people
> that came before us were no different. =A0Frank Klausz is legendary
> nowadays, but talk to him. =A0He'll be the first one to tell you that
> he's not the fastest dovetail chopper he's ever seen. =A0The guys that
> did it back in the day did it each and every day, there were
> apprenticeships (and not this union crap where a carpenter puts up
> fooking drywall!), masters and journeymen, and they were just as smart
> as you and me. =A0Your average guy would cut Klausz-speed dovetails, but
> that came with experience and dedication, not dabbling
>
> > > Power tools are just an extension of the industrial revolution's aim
> > > to obviate operator skill in favor of cheap labor. =A0There's also th=
e
> > > question of cost in outfitting a shop. =A0A complete joiner's shop ba=
ck
> > > in the day fit in a 3'x2'x2' box. =A0Now a guy figures he can't do an=
y
> > > work unless he has ten grand in tools - to start. =A0Journeymen
> > > carpenters walked around with a roll with their tools inside, often
> > > just the blades and bits, and made handles, benches and whatever else
> > > was needed on the spot.
>
> > > We've gained some with power tools, but we've lost just as much
> > > because of them. =A0I still wish that carpenters wore corduroy suits =
so
> > > we could see at a glance who was in the brotherhood.
>
> > Sorry, don't buy it. Been hanging in woodworking shops for over 60 year=
s
> > and the tool world has _never_ been more conducive to turning out a
> > higher volume of _quality_ work than it is at present.
>
> Firstly, you are a son of the modern age. =A0If you said 160 years, a)
> I'd be very impressed and b) I think you'd be singing a different
> tune. =A0Power tools were the norm by the 1950's. =A0The old ways were
> pretty much supplanted and lost by then. =A0At least in the US, home of
> the "it's new so it must be better" mentality. =A0If speed is the only
> ticket, buy IKEA. =A0Fine cabinets, nothing wrong with them, and they'll
> last just as long as anything you'll make.
>
> I also think we have different definitions of what the word quality
> means. =A0From the cheap seats it seems you are confusing quality and
> mass production begetting repeatability. =A0Mass production is nothing
> without speed. =A0Quality is independent of speed. =A0Quality is what is
> left when you take all of the other stuff away, but I kind of gather
> you wouldn't be into a discussion of metaphysics as it relates to
> woodworking, so I'll spare you and everybody else.
>
> > C'mom, gimme me some pictoral proof to back up your contention ... I've
> > got more of that on my side than you can wade through in a month of Sun=
days.
>
> I'll tell you what, I'll relate a little story about how I came to be
> involved in woodworking in the first place, and then you can relate
> yours. =A0Maybe we can trace our differing viewpoints back to the
> beginning.
>
> I'd dabbled in little projects since I was a pup. =A0Building models and
> cobbling things together. =A0I didn't own any tools at all. =A0I just use=
d
> my Dad's. =A0Dad was an orthodontist, ridiculously dexterous with his
> hands, and meticulous as you'd ever want somebody who was going to be
> sticking their hand in your mouth to be. =A0I grew up watching him do
> stuff around the house. =A0Building shelves, boxes, little things. =A0He
> had no training in woodworking, no shop, no real tools to speak of,
> other than repurposed dental tools - of which there were hundreds.
> His only 'serious' woodworking tools, were a power drill and a nice
> hand saw, couple chisels. From him I learned that skill is in the
> hands and mind, not in the tools. =A0He earned a pretty penny, and
> preferred to spend the money on the family, rather than on a shop. =A0I
> suppose if he had more time, fewer kids and wasn't a one-man band
> medical practice, he would have had more time for bigger projects and
> maybe he would have had the de-luxe shop. =A0Woulda, coulda, shoulda -
> who knows.
>
> Fast forward about ten years. =A0I'm in Cambridge, MA and I'd just
> finished my finals after a grueling term, and it was a few days before
> Christmas. =A0I went with my buddy to shop for some presents for
> Christmas. =A0As we walked around Cambridge and window shopped, I became
> depressed. =A0All I saw was shit and glitz. =A0I couldn't afford a lot an=
d
> didn't see anything that I would want to give as a gift. =A0The
> depression turned into despondency as the night wore on and no
> presents were bought. =A0This was going to be the worst Christmas ever -
> wouldn't matter what I got if I gave lame ass presents.
>
> We turned into a weird little mini-mall, for lack of a better term -
> one of those things where there's an alley inside the building with a
> number of shops opening off of that. =A0On the second floor we walked by
> a big glass storefront. =A0The store look unoccupied, there was hardly
> anything in it, just a few pieces of furniture scattered about. =A0Then
> I noticed the furniture was different somehow - this wasn't a
> furniture store showroom. =A0One of the pieces had some wood shavings
> curled around the bottom of it. =A0This intrigued me, so we went in.
>
> It turned out that that the place was showcasing some of the North
> Bennett Street School's student work. =A0As I walked up to the piece
> with the little curlies, a guy walked out from the back of the store,
> and we started to talk. =A0He walked me through the different pieces in
> the 'store' - nothing was for sale as far as I recall (_definitely_
> couldn't have afforded it!). =A0He showed me some of the stuff that some
> of the students made, and the progression of work as their abilities
> increased. =A0 First project was a small box for their oil stone, next
> was a tool box for their tools (this was expected to take the full
> year or half year to complete), and then on to furniture. =A0He took me
> over to a chest of drawers and showed off the all wood construction,
> no metal hardware at all, and the incredible fit of the, of course,
> dovetailed drawers. =A0He pulled out one about half way and closed it
> fairly rapidly. =A0I gaped. =A0All of the other drawers popped out the
> exact same amount. =A0I knew it wasn't a trick, but it still felt like
> looked like a trick. =A0He explained about using a hand plane to tweak
> the fit of a drawer, showed me that the curlies were from a hand
> scraper (I didn't even know what that was).
>
> I left that store _pumped_. =A0I knew what I wanted to do for my
> presents...I also knew that they wouldn't be ready on time. =A0This is a
> tradition that I carry on to this day. =A0;)
>
> I have all the power tools. =A0I have Festool out the yin yang (wish I
> got into them years ago when I was more concerned with being an
> 'active' contractor), and all the other power tools that you would
> imagine a designer/builder would have with a going concern. =A0The tools
> were and are mine. =A0I did not supply tools to guys working for me, and
> I take care of my tools, so most of them I still have. =A0I also have a
> nasty addiction to garage sales, auctions and eBay, and simply find it
> impossible to pass up a good deal. =A0I've picked up panel saws,
> bandsaws, old iron from the 40's and 50's, etc., etc. =A0I have way, way
> more power tools than I need.
>
> I also collect antique tools. =A0I use antique tools on a daily basis.
> I bought a tool collection from an estate sale - that guy had some eye
> and had been collecting for years. =A0So I got several workshops full in
> one fell swoop. =A0It was kinda, sorta 'cheating' I guess, but hey, the
> price was right! =A0So from that one purchase I have literally hundreds
> of hand planes. =A0I have pretty much the complete Stanley catalog, with
> a few notable (read expensive) exceptions, tools that would fit right
> in with Rob H's quizzes, coach building tools, pretty much any
> woodworking hand tool you could think of. =A0These old tools bring me
> far, far more enjoyment that any power tool, and I bought some of my
> Festool stuff dog collars and chew toys. =A0My favorite chisel is from
> 1837, beautiful little thing. =A0I have a ~100 year old Two Cherries
> chisel that I picked up when I bought a ship carpenter's tool chest.
> That thing holds an edge like you would not believe. =A0I sharpen all my
> other chisels two of three times for one sharpening of the Two
> Cherries.
>
> So of course I'm spoiled. =A0I have advantages that few people have with
> my tool collection. =A0I have pretty much the exact tool I need, no
> matter what I am doing. =A0I have the dedicated molding planes sitting
> on a shelf that cut one specific profile. =A0I pick it up and it's ready
> to go.
>
> So you can tell I'm a tool junkie, by now, and I have an arsenal of
> both hand and power tools at my disposal. =A0I am not the fastest person
> with either, and I pick my battles. =A0But when I'm looking for quality,
> and people are paying for it, we both enjoy it more when the hand
> tools are broken out.
>
> R
>
> * More on the floor scraping (if anyone hasn't fallen asleep by now).
>
> Normally I would have just sanded off the paper, like everybody else,
> but that clogs paper and I wanted to try something a little different,
> so I used the scrapers. =A0I was planning on writing an article about it
> for a little historical flavor for one of the flooring trade journals
> - I just never got around to writing the article. =A0I have a bunch, so
> I tested and compared the Stanley 12, 12 1/2, 70 box scraper, 80, 81,
> 82, 83 and 112 =A0(I wish I had the 11). =A0Surprisingly enough, or maybe
> not surprisingly at all, the 70 box scraper was the winner. =A0I guess
> that should be no surprise because it was designed to remove paper
> labels from wood shipping crates so they could be reused. =A0Hand
> scraping was a _lot_ of work. =A0I would not want to do that everyday,
> but it was not all that much slower than sanding it off and having to
> change paper on the machine a couple of times. =A0Granted this was a
> small foyer, and there's no way in hell that scraping off the paper on
> a larger floor would make sense unless you were looking to punish
> someone. =A0I still ended up sanding the floor as I don't have a
> 74...I've never even seen a 74, but I would liked to have tried it out
> to see how it would have performed.
It woulda took me 2 hours to type all that...
RP
On Feb 6, 1:41=A0pm, -MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 2/6/11 12:32 PM, RicodJour wrote:
>
> > On Feb 6, 1:10 pm, -MIKE-<[email protected]> =A0wrote:
>
> >> I'm not talking about the creative side of it. =A0About all I could ev=
er
> >> make from play-dough was a multi-colored turd. =A0I'm just talking abo=
ut
> >> the dexterity and accuracy one attains, fairly quickly, with a chain s=
aw.
>
> > What size/weight chainsaw were you playing around with when you were
> > trying it out?
>
>
> Tiny.... I think it was a 15 Husqvarna.
Okay, thanks. The reason I was asking is that the owner had a tree
cut down on one project I was working on, and I had them leave a 3.5'
stump with the idea that at some point I'd chainsaw carve it. I have
a buddy who goes through collecting phases, and currently he's
collecting chainsaws - go figure. So, maybe it's about time.
R
On Jan 31, 7:47=A0pm, Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Jan 30, 11:36=A0pm, RicodJour <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Power tools are just an extension of the industrial revolution's aim
> > to obviate operator skill in favor of cheap labor.
>
> What a crock.... A power tool conspiracy???
Umm, more like an industrial age one...and this I'm telling to the
resident CNC guy.
Could you carve that Celtic Cross on that sign you made?
R
On Sun, 30 Jan 2011 07:45:51 -0500, 10x <[email protected]> wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>,
>Puckdropper wrote:
>
>> Maybe you could helpfully direct them to the episode of Woodwright's Shop
>> where Roy explained how the breadboard ends worked. *grin*
>>
>> I think it was "Harvard Side Table."
>>
>> Puckdropper
>
>Try this...
>
>http://www.pbs.org/woodwrightsshop/video/2900/2908.html
Lord Roy's vids online? Excellent!
--
An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile,
hoping it will eat him last.
-- Sir Winston Churchill
Sounds like a 15 inch bar on a Husky.
I have been using my Husqvarna 50 with a 20" bar for
well over 20 years. Mine is from Sweden. Current models
are from Husqvarna USA.
I also have a nice arbor saw from STHL. A 6 pound wonder.
Currently have three trees down in the front yard and
several dozen (guess) in the wood lot. Heavy storm takes
out trees easily. Ike took out 2 acres of my trees.
Martin
On 2/6/2011 12:41 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 2/6/11 12:32 PM, RicodJour wrote:
>> On Feb 6, 1:10 pm, -MIKE-<[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm not talking about the creative side of it. About all I could ever
>>> make from play-dough was a multi-colored turd. I'm just talking about
>>> the dexterity and accuracy one attains, fairly quickly, with a chain
>>> saw.
>>
>> What size/weight chainsaw were you playing around with when you were
>> trying it out?
>>
>> R
>
> Tiny.... I think it was a 15 Husqvarna.
>
>
Ditto here in Central Ohio on PBS. The guys and gals on this newsgroup
may be able to figure out some the tings they leave out, but not me (AKA
extreme novice wanna be). Some nice items were made by the host and his
friends..
<snip>
>
> They've been running a Rough Cut marathon on the tube here. I'd
> already seen a number of them, and watched a couple more. They're not
> the worst thing on TV, and better than some of the other shows - even
> though it's his first season (I think), but the problem is that The
> Woodwright's Shop is on the same channel and I couldn't help
> contrasting the two shows.
>
> Verdict - Roy Underhill by a country mile and running away. Roy is
> definitely different than your average oh-take-me-seriously-please
> host, but he so clearly knows the stuff backwards, forwards, and some
> directions I don't even know, his enthusiasm is apparent and
> contagious, he talks non-stop, literally, and there is never a pause,
> never an Um, Sweet! or anything of that sort, and it certainly looks
> like the show is shot in one go with no edits. While he's doing the
> work!
>
> If you don't like hand tools, the song of a sharp plane, and need to
> hear a motor roaring to feel you're really working (or believing the
> machine always does it faster), then Roy's show is certainly not for
> you. Me? The more I watch the guy the more I appreciate him and what
> he does.
>
> R
I have never watched Roy.
Thanks for the link, maybe I'll catch up ..
Never watched rough cut either.
On 1/30/2011 7:45 AM, 10x wrote:
> In article<[email protected]>,
> Puckdropper wrote:
>
>> Maybe you could helpfully direct them to the episode of Woodwright's Shop
>> where Roy explained how the breadboard ends worked. *grin*
>>
>> I think it was "Harvard Side Table."
>>
>> Puckdropper
>
>
> Try this...
>
> http://www.pbs.org/woodwrightsshop/video/2900/2908.html
>
>
> Joe
> aka 10x
On 2/5/2011 5:14 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
> A friends of mine built his first house with a chainsaw and hammer.
I'm not surprised in the least (after some of the places I stayed in the
Army) You do what you gotta do ... :)
AAMOF, I once had a "house" built, in Papua New Guinea, for 12 pounds
AUS and a carton of Marlboro cigarettes, and without a nail in it ...
but that's a different story. :)
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)
"RicodJour" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:854ab739-19e9-4e5b-8ffe-03897aa309f9@v31g2000vbs.googlegroups.com...
On Jan 31, 8:44 pm, "CW" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "RicodJour" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> Power tools are just an extension of the industrial revolution's aim
> to obviate operator skill in favor of cheap labor. There's also the
> question of cost in outfitting a shop. A complete joiner's shop back
> in the day fit in a 3'x2'x2' box. Now a guy figures he can't do any
> work unless he has ten grand in tools - to start. Journeymen
> carpenters walked around with a roll with their tools inside, often
> just the blades and bits, and made handles, benches and whatever else
> was needed on the spot.
>
> We've gained some with power tools, but we've lost just as much
> because of them. I still wish that carpenters wore corduroy suits so
> we could see at a glance who was in the brotherhood.
>
> It is very obvious, by the above, that you do not build things for a
> living.
>I design and build everything I do.
Such as?
On 2/5/2011 6:35 PM, RicodJour wrote:
<snipped hot air, of the most despicable kind, anonymous>
> don't treat me with respect, I may or may not treat you with respect
> depending on my mood at that moment, and I will reserve the right to
> bust your balls as I see fit.
I'm more than happy to take your best shots, Bubba ... Fire away.
But it'll take real balls, something anonymity belies.
The question, as it always has been, is whether you have sufficient
chops ... an always doubtful state of affairs for those relying on
anonymity as a shield for falsehoods.
Until you stop hiding, you're the joke.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)
On 2/1/2011 4:11 PM, RicodJour wrote:
>> and somehow you seem to feel that's a threat
>> to you and you want to start whipping out dicks.
And yes, my deck is indeed bigger than yours:
http://picasaweb.google.com/karlcaillouet/Deck?authkey=Gv1sRgCLDfivea3faslAE#
Your turn ... :)
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)
>"RicodJour" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>On Jan 30, 4:17 pm, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
> >On 1/30/2011 2:53 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
> >> On Sun, 30 Jan 2011 12:41:01 -0600, Swingman<[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >> Methinks the lad would quickly grab for a tailed tool or two, or more
>> >> ...
>>
> >> I'm not so sure, Swingy. The man is QUICK! And have you ever watched
> >> that handy Hungarian, Frank Klausz, make dovetails? He's quicker
> >> doing up a drawer than a Normite is just setting up his first jig.
> >> It's amazing. With Roy's love of woodworking, I think he'd likely go
>> > with handtools everywhere.
vI saw Klausz cut a drawer at a local woodworking club meeting. The
>guy was so quick I didn't know whether to laugh or cry, so I did
>both. He spoke about laying out dovetails on graduated drawers by
>eye, and you could hear murmurrs of "WTF?" To do the same thing with
>power tools would require jig modifications for every drawer, and they
>still wouldn't have that hand-cut tiny-pin dovetail look. They simply
>look better.
At last year's Woodworkers Showcase in Saratoga Springs, NY I used a 22" 12
pt Sandvik crosscut saw, marking gauge, pencil, 1/2" chisel, and my eyes to
layout and cut dovetails during my presentation... My core topic was how to
use reference surfaces and edges to guide your work (e.g., bench top, edge
of board). In dovetailing, once you understand the relationships of the
parts and cuts the tools used become secondary.
John
PS. this year's show is the last weekend of March. I'm doing a presentation
on scrub planes.
"Swingman" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I'll buy that only when you can show me pictoral proof where either of
> these guys has built a complete modern kitchen with their untailed tools,
> bow saws and dovetail saws, one containing provisions for all the modern
> conveniences and accouterments expected in today's high end kitchens, and
> done in a sufficient time and manner to justify the labor costs to make a
> living at it ... .
I remember a shop class teacher (in a previous century) who told the class
how he'd finished his basement using nothing but hand tools. Being young
smartasses we asked him why he didn't wire the basement first so he could
use power tools. Wish I'd paid more attention back then.
"Max" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> On Jan 30, 11:36 pm, RicodJour <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Power tools are just an extension of the industrial revolution's aim
>> to obviate operator skill in favor of cheap labor.
>
> Damn. And all this time I thought it was all about efficiency.
>
True. Power tools do not make a man less of a craftsman, it just makes him
more efficient.
On 2/1/2011 4:11 PM, RicodJour wrote:
> On Feb 1, 3:08 pm, Swingman<[email protected]> wrote:
>> On 2/1/2011 12:07 PM, RicodJour wrote:
>> (IIRC, this is not the first time this request has been made of you)
>>
>> IOW, you indeed talk a good game, but do you really walk the talk?
>>
>> Show us something besides hot air ... how about it?
>
> Nice straw man, Karl. Not biting - sorry. You have a web site -
> wow. Exciting. I should get one one day.
Yabbut, don't look now ... first you must have some _Content_. ;)
Hot air and opinions ain't gonna cut it in that regard.
> I just happen to have an
> opinion you don't share,
With all that supposed education, one would think minimum reading
comprehension would have gotten you over that misconception on the first
post you took upon yourself to reply.
Or is that just some more hot air??
>and somehow you seem to feel that's a threat
> to you and you want to start whipping out dicks.
Surprised you would bring that analogy up ... but, then again, you're
reluctance to do so is understandable at this point ... hot air wouldn't
get you far in the regard either.
Dude, anyone can talk a good game ... and you might well be the shining
example to all woodworkers that you think you are, but the fact remains
that at this point you are nothing more than hot air in byte form.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)
On 1/30/2011 1:04 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
>
> "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> On 1/30/2011 11:56 AM, Michael Kenefick wrote:
>>
>>>> If you don't like hand tools, the song of a sharp plane, and need to
>>>> hear a motor roaring to feel you're really working (or believing the
>>>> machine always does it faster), then Roy's show is certainly not for
>>>> you. Me? The more I watch the guy the more I appreciate him and what
>>>> he does.
>>
>> I like Roy, his show, appreciate what he does, and the fact that he is
>> also one of the nicest guys around ... but what do you reckon his
>> response would be if I told him that he, and one partner, must build,
>> to designer spec, 28 wall and base cabinets, 20 dovetailed drawers, 6
>> shop built pullouts, 60 doors/drawer fronts, associated shelving, and
>> install them in a precise dimensioned location in 30 days of work?
>>
>> Methinks the lad would quickly grab for a tailed tool or two, or more ...
>>
>> Often our trueness to our Normite/Neander philosophy depends upon
>> whether you need to make a living at it or not. :)
>
> ...or you're messing with sheet goods and paint. ;~)
I don't paint ... I'm colorblind. Well, that's my excuse anyway. But, I
can certainly arrange it. ;0
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)
On 2/5/2011 12:50 PM, DGDevin wrote:
>
>
> "Swingman" wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>
>> I'll buy that only when you can show me pictoral proof where either of
>> these guys has built a complete modern kitchen with their untailed
>> tools, bow saws and dovetail saws, one containing provisions for all
>> the modern conveniences and accouterments expected in today's high end
>> kitchens, and done in a sufficient time and manner to justify the
>> labor costs to make a living at it ... .
>
> I remember a shop class teacher (in a previous century) who told the
> class how he'd finished his basement using nothing but hand tools. Being
> young smartasses we asked him why he didn't wire the basement first so
> he could use power tools. Wish I'd paid more attention back then.
I helped my grandfather and an uncle build/add on to their houses in the
middle of the last century, with nothing but hand tools. My dad and I
built all our barns, and a duck hunting boat, with nothing but hand
tools in the early 50's ... thank gawd for electricity.
--
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Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)
"RicodJour" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
You used a lot of words saying that you used power tools when having to make
a living at it.
Larry Blanchard <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> On Tue, 01 Feb 2011 10:10:46 -0800, RicodJour wrote:
>
>> More accurate? Elaborate please. Unless, of course,
>> you're talking about woodworking accuracy beyond a few
>> thousandths. If you're talking about four decimal places,
>> then that's a waste of time and not efficient.
>
> I'd suggest that any accuracy beyond 1/64" is wishful
> thinking. And for a lot of us that ought to be 1/32". And
> neither lasts past the first humidity change :-).
>
In a lot of cases you are absolutely correct. However, if I
route a 1/4" groove with the intent of inlaying a border for
example, I sure as hell am not going to accept a tolerance of
1/32".
I cannot even come close to listing all of the benefits of the
Incra fence setup that I purchased. I went over to a buddy's
house and helped him on a weekend project about 6 months back.
I actually went the entire day without using a tape measure on
his table saw. Repeatable accuracy of a couple of thousandths
is very easy to obtain. Needless to say I was sold.
Larry
Larry Blanchard <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> On Sat, 05 Feb 2011 03:35:37 +0000, Larry wrote:
>
>> Repeatable accuracy of a
>> couple of thousandths is very easy to obtain. Needless to
>> say I was sold.
>
> I've got the original IncraJig to which I added a fence.
> You're right, repeatable accuracy is excellent. But
> there's a big difference between that and absolute
> accuracy. For example, I could rip 2 different boards to
> 3" wide and move and restore the fence between each one
> using the Incra. All 3 boards would be very close to the
> same width - as you say, a few thousandths. But how close
> they were to 3" is still dependent on my original setup
> -that's where the 1/64" comes in.
Something's broken on your setup. I can move my fence around
all day long and if I set it to cut 3" it will always be +/-
.002. Move the fence in until the blade ticks against it when
turning it by hand, set everything to zero and you're good to
go. The days of having a tape sitting around in the way on the
table saw are gone.
>
> OTOH, your 1/4" groove for inlay is only dependent on the
> diameter of the router bit and the runout on the router.
> Measurement doesn't enter into it.
>
Sure it does. If I cut a 1/4" groove using a router with some
runout and the bit isn't exactly 1/4", I simply measure the
existing groove and set the fence to the matching size, less a
few thousanths. The point is *if* the groove was say .260"
with the sloppy router and bit, I *can easily* cut a matching
strip to fit with far more precision than 1/64".
Larry
"Bill" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> RicodJour wrote:
>
> > <snip>
>
>> If you don't like hand tools, the song of a sharp plane, and need to
>> hear a motor roaring to feel you're really working (or believing the
>> machine always does it faster), then Roy's show is certainly not for
>> you. Me? The more I watch the guy the more I appreciate him and what
>> he does.
>>
>> R
>
> Just curious--are those reruns or is Roy Underhill still making new shows?
He's still shooting... and he has a school now:
http://www.pbs.org/woodwrightsshop/
http://www.woodwrightschool.com/
John
On 2/4/2011 11:30 AM, RicodJour wrote:
> Deflect as you will, you know that everything I mentioned is true.
> Yes, there were some digs in there, but it's all factual based on
> those pictures.
>
> You ignore code, you allow and/or do shoddy workmanship (whether it's
> your house or built for someone else - that wasn't clear), you
> apparently wing all of your construction details and can't or won't
> plan ahead.
>
> You said you've spent 60 years hanging around woodshops. You should
> have spent more time hanging around construction sites.
Dude! You will want to be a lot more careful with false, libelous
accusations in this day and age. Posting though google groups will not
protect your anonymity and the above meets ALL the requirements for
libel in written, broadcast, or otherwise published words.
I was trying to be lighthearted with you, and not everyone will be as
understanding ... that is no longer the case.
Do not continue as above ... word to the wise.
BTW, the deck in question was built to code and passed all required
inspections. That is documented and provable.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)
On Feb 1, 2:20=A0pm, "CW" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "RicodJour" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
>
> You used a lot of words saying that you used power tools when having to m=
ake
> a living at it.
And more years figuring out that I didn't need to.
R
On Feb 1, 7:58 pm, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 2/1/2011 4:11 PM, RicodJour wrote:
>
> >> and somehow you seem to feel that's a threat
> >> to you and you want to start whipping out dicks.
>
> And yes, my deck is indeed bigger than yours:
>
> http://picasaweb.google.com/karlcaillouet/Deck?authkey=Gv1sRgCLDfivea...
>
> Your turn ... :)
Hi, Karl. Thanks for inviting me to play. This should be fun.
Straight off the bat I should point out that I admit you are a bigger
deck, but I am not quite sure what that thing in those pictures is
supposed to be. It almost looks like a deck, but I can't be quite
sure until it's finished. I guess you posted the link to those
pictures for me so I could help you out with some of the details. No
problem, I have a little free time so I'll work up a punchlist for
you. Don't worry, there's no charge!
I'll run through things in the rough order of the pictures and
indicate similar situations in subsequent photos by placing the
picture number in brackets, like so {1}.
1). Remove temporary wood lattice animal barrier {1 though 6} -
temporary barriers shall be made from orange plastic construction
barrier, not wood lattice. Orange barrier is cheaper, faster and can
be re-used.
http://www.homedepot.com/buy/building-materials/fencing/tenax-guardian-safety-fence/4-ft-x-100-ft-orange-warning-barrier-20640.html
2). Remove temporary steps used for access during construction {1}.
Remove concrete rat slab on debris fill at base of temporary steps
{1}.
3). Remove temporary railing {all}. Temporary safety barriers shall
not be made from finish materials (see Note 1).
4). Install temporary bracing to support deck {all}. Remove what
appear to be temporary concrete post blocks {all}. Excavate and place
bottom of permanent concrete piers a minimum of 12" below grade on
undisturbed soil as per IRC 403.1. Base dimensions or piers shall be
determined by local code requirements and soil conditions. Tops of
piers shall be 8" above grade. Reduce concrete pier dimensions above
grade to 1" greater in each direction than base of post size. Install
either cast-in-place (Simpson PBS), or post-installed (Simpson ABA)
post base connectors at all posts. Install Simpson BCS post caps at
all posts. All posts shall be centered on concrete piers to avoid
eccentric loading condition at piers {1,2,3,4,5,15}, and all support
posts shall be laid out symmetrically with equal spacing to avoid
condition shown at deck corner {15}.
5). Install fascia board to match decking at all perimeter framing.
Rabbet bottom interior edge of fascia boards to receive wood lattice.
6). Cut back deck boards to receive trim deck board to conceal
profiled edges {1,3,4,6,15,16,17}, as shown in: http://www.decks.com/article74.aspx
Install blocking as required to support picture frame trim board.
Picture frame trim boards shall overhang fascia board by 3/4".
7). Install composite post covers at posts supporting what appears to
be temporary roof structure.*
8). Investigate cause of apparent crack in foundation wall at top of
deck framing adjacent to temporary steps. {1} Verify that crack is
stable and not growing - reparge foundation wall.
9). Place 6" concrete slab on grade at new step location on 6"
compacted stone base.{1} New slab shall extend to foundation with
1/2" felt expansion joint separation, extend to the full width of the
deck end, and shall provide a lower landing depth equal to the width
of the steps. 6x6 welded wire mesh shall be centered in slab and
shall have 3" concrete coverage in all directions.
10). Install permanent steps with 4 treads and 4 stringers (or provide
composite decking manufacturer's literature confirming allowable span
of 16" or greater, and capable of carrying a 300# concentrated load in
the center of the span of one individual tread board as per code).
{1} Install riser boards to match composite decking, and providing
3/4" nosing. In lieu of riser boards, cut stringers to provide
minimum of 3/4" overhang of tread boards, and notch bottom of
stringers to accept 2x4 tie-board.
11). Verify existing railing posts conform to applicable code
requirements for attachment. Bolting posts only to band joist is not
acceptable without additional reinforcement connectors or blocking.
12). Reinstall deck railings. Joint compound shall not be used to
fill in railing fastener holes. {17} Manufacturer's matching filler or
concealed fasteners shall be utilized. Cut post and post covers to a
height of 2" above top of railing. Reinstall railing caps. Remove
adhesive label at post base. {2}
13). Deck railings shall be consistent throughout. Install matching
top and bottom rail at steps. {1} Baluster position shall maintain
consistent appearance adjoining posts. {11} Corner post at oblique
deck angle does not resolve railing transition. {11} Either two posts
shall be installed, or a built-up post that incorporates the change in
angle shall be installed. Submit drawing for approval.
14). Install lattice at deck perimeter. Lattice direction shall be
consistent and the outermost layer of lathing shall all be angled in
the same direction around the entire perimeter of the deck for
continuity. {3} All lattice panels shall appear continuous and there
shall be no discrepancy in elevation and alignment. {3}
* Temporary roof structure with 2x4 on the flat "beam", column layout,
straightness of stucco work, and electrical items are not covered
under this punchlist. I would be happy to provide a list of
recommended corrective measures at your request.
R
On Jan 29, 1:15=A0pm, Larry Blanchard <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> I think I watched my last episode of Rough Cut this morning. =A0He built =
a
> trestle table. =A0The only part that needed explanation was the breadboae=
d
> ends. =A0His comment "All I've got left to do is glue on the ends" and th=
at
> was all he said. =A0Sheeesh!
>
> I'm going to write to Woodcraft. =A0As an ex-employee I'm ashamed they're
> sponsoring it.
They've been running a Rough Cut marathon on the tube here. I'd
already seen a number of them, and watched a couple more. They're not
the worst thing on TV, and better than some of the other shows - even
though it's his first season (I think), but the problem is that The
Woodwright's Shop is on the same channel and I couldn't help
contrasting the two shows.
Verdict - Roy Underhill by a country mile and running away. Roy is
definitely different than your average oh-take-me-seriously-please
host, but he so clearly knows the stuff backwards, forwards, and some
directions I don't even know, his enthusiasm is apparent and
contagious, he talks non-stop, literally, and there is never a pause,
never an Um, Sweet! or anything of that sort, and it certainly looks
like the show is shot in one go with no edits. While he's doing the
work!
If you don't like hand tools, the song of a sharp plane, and need to
hear a motor roaring to feel you're really working (or believing the
machine always does it faster), then Roy's show is certainly not for
you. Me? The more I watch the guy the more I appreciate him and what
he does.
R
On Tue, 1 Feb 2011 18:58:10 +0000 (UTC), Larry Blanchard
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Mon, 31 Jan 2011 18:51:36 -0800, RicodJour wrote:
>
>> I also collect antique tools. I use antique tools on a daily basis. I
>> bought a tool collection from an estate sale - that guy had some eye and
>> had been collecting for years. So I got several workshops full in one
>> fell swoop. It was kinda, sorta 'cheating' I guess, but hey, the price
>> was right! So from that one purchase I have literally hundreds of hand
>> planes. I have pretty much the complete Stanley catalog, with a few
>> notable (read expensive) exceptions, tools that would fit right in with
>> Rob H's quizzes, coach building tools, pretty much any woodworking hand
>> tool you could think of.
>
>I think I hate you :-). I also have the garage sale habit, but the best
>I've ever done was either a 1948 Delta tablesaw or an old Stanley double
>spokeshave that was like new.
>
>BTW, there's a story on that spokeshave. I tried to find out how old it
>was. Best I could do was pre-1910. So when antiques road show came to
>town I took it in. The expert said it was from the 1800s (I forget the
>exact year), was the best condition he'd ever seen, and could well have
>been part of the first production run of that model. I thanked him for
>the info and said I would be using the spokeshave. He looked at me and
>said "Don't you dare!" - I think of that each time I even look at the
>spokeshave :-).
Shoulda sold it to some rich yuppie sucker and bought an entire
matched set of Satanleys to replace it. Or trade it in for a SawStop
with accessories.
--
To the well-organized mind, death is but the next great adventure.
-- J. K. Rowling
On Mon, 31 Jan 2011 22:52:46 -0500, Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
>RicodJour wrote:
>
>
>First project was a small box for their oil stone, next
>> was a tool box for their tools (this was expected to take the full
>> year or half year to complete), and then on to furniture.
>
>
>Larry Jaques, See! Quality takes a little time!! :-)
I doan see no lightin' fixtyas, boss. Ah jess doan sees 'em.
--
If we attend continually and promptly to the little that
we can do, we shall ere long be surprised to find how
little remains that we cannot do. -- Samuel Butler
On Jan 30, 4:17=A0pm, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 1/30/2011 2:53 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
> > On Sun, 30 Jan 2011 12:41:01 -0600, Swingman<[email protected]> =A0wrote:
>
> >> Methinks the lad would quickly grab for a tailed tool or two, or more =
...
>
> > I'm not so sure, Swingy. =A0The man is QUICK! =A0And have you ever watc=
hed
> > that handy Hungarian, Frank Klausz, make dovetails? =A0He's quicker
> > doing up a drawer than a Normite is just setting up his first jig.
> > It's amazing. =A0With Roy's love of woodworking, I think he'd likely go
> > with handtools everywhere.
I saw Klausz cut a drawer at a local woodworking club meeting. The
guy was so quick I didn't know whether to laugh or cry, so I did
both. He spoke about laying out dovetails on graduated drawers by
eye, and you could hear murmurrs of "WTF?" To do the same thing with
power tools would require jig modifications for every drawer, and they
still wouldn't have that hand-cut tiny-pin dovetail look. They simply
look better.
> OK ... that takes care of a few drawer SIDES. Now, let's get all that
> plywood batchcut ...
It's a little know fact that that's why power tools were invented.
They had all of this plywood laying about and no quick way to cut it,
so Ben Franklin pulled some electrons out of a cloud and made
electricity for the first time. The first power tool was discovered
by the guys watching another guy get zapped by some of them electrons
while he was using a hand saw. The current running through the guy's
body made him jerk so fast that he cut the board lickety split. The
rest is history.
For every this-is-why-power-tools-are-faster scenario you could come
up with, I could come up with a scenario where hand tools are faster/
better. If you choose plywood batch cutting, I say running off 12' of
custom molding to match period molding.
Power tools are just an extension of the industrial revolution's aim
to obviate operator skill in favor of cheap labor. There's also the
question of cost in outfitting a shop. A complete joiner's shop back
in the day fit in a 3'x2'x2' box. Now a guy figures he can't do any
work unless he has ten grand in tools - to start. Journeymen
carpenters walked around with a roll with their tools inside, often
just the blades and bits, and made handles, benches and whatever else
was needed on the spot.
We've gained some with power tools, but we've lost just as much
because of them. I still wish that carpenters wore corduroy suits so
we could see at a glance who was in the brotherhood.
R
On 1/30/2011 11:56 AM, Michael Kenefick wrote:
>> If you don't like hand tools, the song of a sharp plane, and need to
>> hear a motor roaring to feel you're really working (or believing the
>> machine always does it faster), then Roy's show is certainly not for
>> you. Me? The more I watch the guy the more I appreciate him and what
>> he does.
I like Roy, his show, appreciate what he does, and the fact that he is
also one of the nicest guys around ... but what do you reckon his
response would be if I told him that he, and one partner, must build, to
designer spec, 28 wall and base cabinets, 20 dovetailed drawers, 6 shop
built pullouts, 60 doors/drawer fronts, associated shelving, and install
them in a precise dimensioned location in 30 days of work?
Methinks the lad would quickly grab for a tailed tool or two, or more ...
Often our trueness to our Normite/Neander philosophy depends upon
whether you need to make a living at it or not. :)
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)
The "Rough Cut" host may not be calling all the shots, as to what he
demonstrates and says. Woodcraft may not be just a sponsor, but may
be directly funding the show's production. The show hasn't been on
very long. Give them a little time to get their act/a better act,
together. Maybe they'd like the viewer's feedback, too.
Sonny
RicodJour wrote:
>
> I pick and choose what projects I do, and only projects that interest
> me,... I turn work down because I don't like the people, and don't want
> to work with/for them.
>
Hey - I figured out who you really are! You were the Soup Nazi, weren't
you???
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
On Sun, 30 Jan 2011 12:41:01 -0600, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>On 1/30/2011 11:56 AM, Michael Kenefick wrote:
>
>>> If you don't like hand tools, the song of a sharp plane, and need to
>>> hear a motor roaring to feel you're really working (or believing the
>>> machine always does it faster), then Roy's show is certainly not for
>>> you. Me? The more I watch the guy the more I appreciate him and what
>>> he does.
>
>I like Roy, his show, appreciate what he does, and the fact that he is
>also one of the nicest guys around ... but what do you reckon his
>response would be if I told him that he, and one partner, must build, to
>designer spec, 28 wall and base cabinets, 20 dovetailed drawers, 6 shop
>built pullouts, 60 doors/drawer fronts, associated shelving, and install
>them in a precise dimensioned location in 30 days of work?
>
>Methinks the lad would quickly grab for a tailed tool or two, or more ...
I'm not so sure, Swingy. The man is QUICK! And have you ever watched
that handy Hungarian, Frank Klausz, make dovetails? He's quicker
doing up a drawer than a Normite is just setting up his first jig.
It's amazing. With Roy's love of woodworking, I think he'd likely go
with handtools everywhere.
>Often our trueness to our Normite/Neander philosophy depends upon
>whether you need to make a living at it or not. :)
I use power on my own projects when something is too delicate for
handtools. I use power almost exclusively on site for clients because
they won't pay me extra for Neanderwork. ;)
--
An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile,
hoping it will eat him last.
-- Sir Winston Churchill
On Sun, 30 Jan 2011 18:04:18 -0800, "Artemus" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
>"Bill" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>>
>> I watched him do it today on "The Woodworking Shows" complimentary show
>> DVD. How the heck can he turn his bow saw so quick when he's cutting out
>> the waste between tenons??? I don't have a saw like his, but it's
>> amazing (he probably did some trimming, but that part wasn't show it in
>> the DVD).
>>
>> Bill
>
>
>A few years ago at one of TWWS I saw a guy cut around a corner
>with a bowsaw without rotating the frame. After his presentation I
>took a look at his bowsaw. It had a 90 degree twist in the center of the
>blade (for maybe 1/4 or less of the blade length). So using the front
>section he could cut straight down, the center turned the corner and the
>rear section cut horizontally. Maybe Klausz did it like that?
Frank used chisels and dovetail saws, no others, in the classes I
helped him with at the American WW Shows in Ontario, CA a decade ago.
I volunteered as a gofer. He also did a 3-day seminar on woodworking
in Sandy Eggo a few years before that. I had a blast.
Here's the saw he was using for the Am WW Show classes:
http://www.craftsmanstudio.com/html_p/A!500.htm
I had bought a French-made Lee Valley dovie saw, but _much_ prefer my
ryoba for fine cuts now. I need a new hardwood blade for it, though.
--
An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile,
hoping it will eat him last.
-- Sir Winston Churchill
On Feb 1, 3:08=A0pm, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 2/1/2011 12:07 PM, RicodJour wrote:
> > On Feb 1, 5:24 am, Swingman<[email protected]> =A0wrote:
>
> >> Problem here is that you ignored/didn't address the topic in my post i=
n
> >> which you chose to insert your opinions. :)
>
> >> NBD, but doing so would have kept your assumptions from running rampan=
t
> >> down a path that doesn't exist.
>
> > I don't answer set up questions such as, were you the stupidest kid on
> > your bus?
>
> Woodworking to me is not plywood and it is not just kitchens, modern or o=
therwise.
>
> It is evident that "Kitchens" were simply used as an example to make a
> point about tailed tools in my initial post, a fact which you continue
> to ignore, but insist on misappropriating as a basis for your misguided
> assumptions/purposes.
>
> So, let's have a little 'show n' tell' to clear the air, shall we?
>
> Just a sampling of my woodworking, such as it is (and obviously paltry
> compared to a "real woodworker" of your apparent stature), is free for
> the world to see in the link below, very little of which, you will note,
> has anything to do with kitchens.
>
> And, while we're tickled to have someone with your exalted expertise
> offering opinions as how the world of woodworking is conducted, it would
> be awfully upfront of you to actually show us some evidence of same.
>
> (IIRC, this is not the first time this request has been made of you)
>
> IOW, you indeed talk a good game, but do you really walk the talk?
>
> Show us something besides hot air ... how about it?
Nice straw man, Karl. Not biting - sorry. You have a web site -
wow. Exciting. I should get one one day. I just happen to have an
opinion you don't share, and somehow you seem to feel that's a threat
to you and you want to start whipping out dicks.
In essence you're calling me a liar - as if you can't tell from my
writing that I know what I'm talking about...yet you want me to post
pictures of my work. Hey Sparky, how would you even know they're my
work? I'm a liar, remember? Maybe I should stand in the
picture...but what do I look like? Sheesh. Think first, type later.
As an aside, I recently told a girlfriend to not bring a lot of
samples of her work to a store that was looking to hire. The place
put out a cattle call, and it was easy to imagine the interviewer
being rushed, manhandling your work for 15 or 20 seconds, and tossing
it on the end of the table. I respect my work and the work of other
people (yes, even machine work) too much to do that or have it done to
my work. I told her to just compliment all of the nice work that
she'd seen that people brought, and then apologize that she didn't
have samples to show because all of her work sold. Sorry, more
philosophy.
If I hurt your feelings, or you feel I impugned your work, that was
unintentional. What was intentional was you belittling me for sharing
some of my background and philosophy, and having the temerity to have
an opinion you did not share. I've already pointed out that I am not
the fastest guy with power or hand tools, but I'd put the finished
product up against anyone's. I'd lose sometimes, but I'd hold my own.
You shouldn't care what I do in my shop, so I'm not quite so sure why
this is an issue for you. What I object to is the erroneous belief
that 'progress', and in particular attempting to supplant Mens et
Manus with Batteries et Idiot-proof, is an ever upward trend. I
object to bullshit. I present an alternative opinion and you view it
as some sort of threat to your manhood and want to start whipping out
dicks.
My point was, and still is, that power tools don't automatically make
the job faster and better. That skill with hand tools is a lost art
because people buy into the "latest and greatest" power tool crap.
That craftsmen are no longer coached, they're more an accidental
result. And yes, I blame power tools for a lot of that. Hand tools
wielded by skilled hands can be more enjoyable and just as profitable
for a one man band shop.
I have not advertised in twenty five years, haven't had business cards
printed up in twenty, don't have a web site, and don't try to drum up
work. It finds me. All of my business in that time has been by word
of mouth. I moved to New Orleans for a few years for a relationship
(don't _ever_ do that) and people were still calling to see if I'd be
interested in doing their project knowing full well that I lived 1500
miles away. Again, don't just read this, check my posting history if
you'd like. Unless you believe that I've been setting up my 'cover
story' on Usenet for years in anticipation of having to prove myself
to you.
I pick and choose what projects I do, and only projects that interest
me, or those for really good customers, make the cut. I turn work
down because I don't like the people, and don't want to work with/for
them.
And here you are saying, "Hey, I'm acting like a dick, impress me!"
That'll happen.
R
On Jan 29, 1:15=A0pm, Larry Blanchard <[email protected]> wrote:
> I think I watched my last episode of Rough Cut this morning. =A0He built =
a
> trestle table. =A0The only part that needed explanation was the breadboae=
d
> ends. =A0His comment "All I've got left to do is glue on the ends" and th=
at
> was all he said. =A0Sheeesh!
>
> I'm going to write to Woodcraft. =A0As an ex-employee I'm ashamed they're
> sponsoring it.
>
> --
> Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw
I just Recently watched my first episode of Rough Cut. My first
reaction was who is this idiot?
I then watched a few more episodes during the marathon on Create...
Tommy grew on me quickly, he's young and proud of his work. So what
if he describes a nice piece of wood as "sweet"? Yes, some detail is
left out but he only has 22 minutes or whatever TV is now. I also
like his appreciation of old work and how he brings in people to help
out. He doesn't need to act like he knows everything.
As one who worships at the altar of Norm I can remember the early
shows when Norm all but dunked each part in glue and power nailed
everything. But the best thing that Norm did for me was inspire me to
buy a few pieces of wood and cut them up and try putting them back
together as something useful. I hope Tommy Mac can stay on the air
and maybe inspire a few more people to try hacking apart a piece of
wood and building something with it.
On 2/5/2011 6:35 PM, RicodJour wrote:
> As a little token, and to show you what a stand up guy I am, I'll
> offer up something for nothing. Enjoy.
> https://txcpa.cpa.state.tx.us/up/Search.jsp
> Type in your last name, and a belated Merry Christmas. Buy something
> Festool, or some nice handplanes, on me.
Take this to heart: Be aware that you've clearly demonstrated some
disturbing patterns in this thread: your anonymity; false and very
specific libelous allegations and accusations; and now your clear
attempts to gather personal information, are a series of actions
symptomatic of a serious and troubling behavior.
You're skating on thin ice and would do well to cease and desist.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)
On Feb 1, 1:14=A0pm, Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Feb 1, 1:10=A0pm, RicodJour <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > On Feb 1, 8:20=A0am, Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > On Feb 1, 1:08=A0am, "CW" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > True. Power tools do not make a man less of a craftsman, it just ma=
kes him
> > > > more efficient.
>
> > > ...AND more accurate if he knows what he's doing.
>
> > More accurate? =A0Elaborate please. =A0Unless, of course, you're talkin=
g
> > about woodworking accuracy beyond a few thousandths. =A0If you're
> > talking about four decimal places, then that's a waste of time and not
> > efficient.
>
>
> Take exactly 1/4" off the side of a 2 x 6 =A0 it is the 1/4" strip I am
> after.
>
> Handsaw vs circular saw and fence...
Okay, but where? Doing it on a roof? On a job site without power?
Try this one:
Piecing together some 1x stock to make a solid wood back for a cabinet
with T&G.
Stanley 48 vs whatever you want to use.
http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan7.htm#num48
Oh, I forgot to ask - do we include tool cost in the efficiency
calculations?
This is fun! ;)
R
On Feb 7, 4:19 pm, "Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "RicodJour" wrote:
>
> <snip>.> Let me ask you a question - what do you think I should have done=
?
>
> ------------------------------
> Perform aerial intercourse on a rotating annular spheroid.
=CE=D2=C3=BB=D3=D0=CA=D4=B9=FD=B5=C4=A1=A3=C7=EB=D5=C5=CC=F9=CD=BC=C6=AC=BA=
=CD=CB=B5=C3=F7=A1=A3=D0=BB=D0=BB=A3=A1 ;=A3=A9
R
-MIKE- wrote:
>
> Having recently used a chainsaw for the first time, I'm much less in
> awe of those chainsaw sculpture guys at the fair. It didn't take
> long at all to get very accurate with the thing.
If you can do that kind of thing (even after a little practice), I'm going
to be in awe of you! My son is one of those guys that can do that kind of
thing, and I have no idea where he gets that from. Some people have it and
the rest of us don't. I just can't figure out how some people can look at a
log or a block of ice, and see something inside it, and then just cut away
everything else. Hell too me, it's just a hunk of wood or ice.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
On Feb 7, 11:57=A0am, RicodJour <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Karl's got a boatload of money sitting there. =A0The only thing he
> couldn't like about that was that I'm the one that pointed it out. =A0I
> thought about it long and hard, and frankly, well, I didn't know how
> _not_ to tell him and still feel good about myself. =A0Whether he acts
> like a dick to me, and I in return act like a dick to him, doesn't
> mean that I will just ignore basic principles.
>
Why didn't you e-mail Karl with that information if your intent was
honourable?
There was no need to hang this out in a public newsgroup.
And what other reason would there be for you to point out differences
in code/construction unless you wanted to show off how superior YOU
are? And if it was to be helpful, why not via an e-mail?
Karl needs neither me, nor Robert (nailster) or anybody else to 'stick
up for him', he's perfectly capable of taking care of himself.
With all due respect, I did feel you were being mean-spirited about
the whole thing.
Now.. when are we going to see some of your work? I can't wait.
r
On Feb 1, 1:13=A0am, "CW" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "RicodJour" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:854ab739-19e9-4e5b-8ffe-03897aa309f9@v31g2000vbs.googlegroups.com...
> On Jan 31, 8:44 pm, "CW" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > "RicodJour" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> > Power tools are just an extension of the industrial revolution's aim
> > to obviate operator skill in favor of cheap labor. There's also the
> > question of cost in outfitting a shop. A complete joiner's shop back
> > in the day fit in a 3'x2'x2' box. Now a guy figures he can't do any
> > work unless he has ten grand in tools - to start. Journeymen
> > carpenters walked around with a roll with their tools inside, often
> > just the blades and bits, and made handles, benches and whatever else
> > was needed on the spot.
>
> > We've gained some with power tools, but we've lost just as much
> > because of them. I still wish that carpenters wore corduroy suits so
> > we could see at a glance who was in the brotherhood.
>
> > It is very obvious, by the above, that you do not build things for a
> > living.
> >I design and build everything I do.
>
> Such as?
What have I designed and built? Oh, fine, we're in the quiz portion
of the exam. BTW, you can check out my posting history if you want to
verify any of this, as you seem to be a skeptic.
As I said, I design and build everything I do - that was not always
the case. I built my first home addition with two friends during the
summer of 1975, after our junior year in high school. One friend's
father was in construction and he got the job, designed it, and we
built it. Concrete, framing, siding, roofing, the usual. By the time
I got to college we'd built a couple more additions, patios, decks,
etc. During college I worked for a construction manager and did
surveying work for my internship programs in Boston. Immediately
after college I worked for a professional model builder in NYC (a
recent thread over in alt.home.repair has more detail on that). After
that I worked for what was at the time the largest construction
manager in NYC to get experience. South Street Seaport being a
notable project, but the most enjoyable was a landmark renovation on
the UWS. I was project manager and superintendent (go figure) and
collaborated with the clerk of the works architect on designing the
details and selecting materials and hardware (the project was for that
architect's boss' firm's own offices).
Fast forward a bit, and I left and started my own design firm. Almost
all of it was renovation and remodeling work - some commercial, most
residential. Did freelance estimating so I could sit in front of the
tube, drink beer and earn $60/hour. I backed into contracting when I
got fed up with contractor's saying the things I designed couldn't be
built, or couldn't be built within the budget, and upsetting the
owners. From that point on, and for the next 15 years, I designed and
built everything. I only built two projects I didn't design, and I
did that for the money. On one I felt like a whore as it was a
commercial hairdresser on the second floor (interesting project for
other reasons, though), and on the other I enjoyed it because it was
for some ridiculously wealthy, yet surprisingly normal people's guest
house (who has a $2 million dollar guest house?!) entrance portico.
That was a wonderful place to work - stables, old landscaped grounds
and a grounds crew of 12.
On larger jobs I'd sub out some of the work, on small jobs I'd do it
all with maybe a helper or two, but I always was wearing boots,
getting my hands dirty and on several occasions getting blood on the
work. I always subbed out electrical and plumbing as this is required
by the building departments around here. They're also a helluva lot
faster than I am, though both would always ask for my assistance in
layout and fishing things through the buildings. I know how old
buildings are put together and can visualize in 3D really well. Other
than that what I did personally depended on the project and how much
money I wanted to keep in my pocket. Except for the two trades listed
above, anything else in the CSI was done by yours truly at one time or
another. Particularly the Specialties category. I would design
things into a project so I could learn how to do it. I would have
people pay me to learn on the job. So I picked up stained glass work,
fine woodworking, leatherwork, copper roofing, all sorts of things
where I felt there was a hole in my education.
An engineering degree and a degree in architecture do not in any way
provide the skills to build, and, to me at least, there's an
artificial separation between the different aspects of the built
form. I'd seen way too much of the finger pointing that goes on
between trades and between the designer and the contractor, and too
many compromised projects and budgets. I have no one to point a
finger at but me. I am one stop shopping.
Since this is a woodworking group, though you didn't say it, I would
suppose you are really asking what sort of woodworking I've done. A
lot. From tchotchkes to kitchens, from chests of drawers to steam-
bent laminated windows, custom doors. I haven't done hundreds of
kitchens or anything like that, as that would bore me. I do what I do
because I want to try new and different things and incorporate the
skills and talents that make me me.
As the years have passed I have found that what was exciting to me
back then is no longer as exciting. The whine of power tools annoys
me, and I have some hearing loss from being on job sites as well. I
find that my enjoyment comes more from (re)discovering the old ways of
working wood and using old hand tools. I like it, and obviously I
don't owe you or anyone else an explanation or an apology on that
front. I have also discovered that as I've gotten older I've become
more efficient in many ways, and that using power tools less
frequently hasn't greatly diminished my speed at all. I have no
interest in banging out kitchens for a buck or ten thousand bucks. It
just doesn't interest me. I realize in other circumstances I might
not be so fortunate and would have to accept work that I found
onerous, but, well, I am fortunate and I don't have to accept work
that doesn't interest me. Everyone should be so lucky. Even
skeptics. ;)
R
BTW, your newsreader is doing some funny things when you quote, and/or
you're cutting out some formatting.
On Jan 30, 11:36=A0pm, RicodJour <[email protected]> wrote:
> Power tools are just an extension of the industrial revolution's aim
> to obviate operator skill in favor of cheap labor.
What a crock.... A power tool conspiracy???
>"RicodJour" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:5699c36d-7c1d-4487-afac->[email protected]...
>On Jan 29, 2:52 pm, "John Grossbohlin"
><[email protected]> wrote:
>> "Bill" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>
> >news:[email protected]...
> >> Just curious--are those reruns or is Roy Underhill still making new
> >> shows?
>>
>> He's still shooting... and he has a school now:
>>
> >http://www.pbs.org/woodwrightsshop/
>>
>> http://www.woodwrightschool.com/
>I didn't know Roy started a school. Most excellent! The stuff on his
>web site certainly made me smile.
....
>The guy's got a sense of humor. I wonder how much of that is edited
>out for TV to be politically correct.
Most of his shows are shot in one continuous take...
He is very funny and came out with some really funny things the times I've
been with him in person.
An example of this sarcasm is that I've got one of his Woodwrights Shop Y2K
Tool Kits -- it's a first aid kit!
Probably not news here but he's fond of saying "Woodworking beyond the
Norm."
John
"-MIKE-" wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> A friends of mine built his first house with a chainsaw and hammer.
Well we lived in a cardboard box in the middle of the road....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe1a1wHxTyo
RicodJour wrote:
> <snip>
> If you don't like hand tools, the song of a sharp plane, and need to
> hear a motor roaring to feel you're really working (or believing the
> machine always does it faster), then Roy's show is certainly not for
> you. Me? The more I watch the guy the more I appreciate him and what
> he does.
>
> R
Just curious--are those reruns or is Roy Underhill still making new shows?
Bill
John Grossbohlin wrote:
>
> "Bill" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> RicodJour wrote:
>>
>> > <snip>
>>
>>> If you don't like hand tools, the song of a sharp plane, and need to
>>> hear a motor roaring to feel you're really working (or believing the
>>> machine always does it faster), then Roy's show is certainly not for
>>> you. Me? The more I watch the guy the more I appreciate him and what
>>> he does.
>>>
>>> R
>>
>> Just curious--are those reruns or is Roy Underhill still making new
>> shows?
>
>
> He's still shooting... and he has a school now:
>
> http://www.pbs.org/woodwrightsshop/
>
> http://www.woodwrightschool.com/
>
> John
I knew he had a new school. That's why I am surprised he is still making
new shows. Glad to hear it!
Bill
On 1/29/2011 2:03 PM, RicodJour wrote:
> On Jan 29, 1:15 pm, Larry Blanchard<[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> I think I watched my last episode of Rough Cut this morning. He built a
>> trestle table. The only part that needed explanation was the breadboaed
>> ends. His comment "All I've got left to do is glue on the ends" and that
>> was all he said. Sheeesh!
>>
>> I'm going to write to Woodcraft. As an ex-employee I'm ashamed they're
>> sponsoring it.
>
> They've been running a Rough Cut marathon on the tube here. I'd
> already seen a number of them, and watched a couple more. They're not
> the worst thing on TV, and better than some of the other shows - even
> though it's his first season (I think), but the problem is that The
> Woodwright's Shop is on the same channel and I couldn't help
> contrasting the two shows.
>
> Verdict - Roy Underhill by a country mile and running away. Roy is
> definitely different than your average oh-take-me-seriously-please
> host, but he so clearly knows the stuff backwards, forwards, and some
> directions I don't even know, his enthusiasm is apparent and
> contagious, he talks non-stop, literally, and there is never a pause,
> never an Um, Sweet! or anything of that sort, and it certainly looks
> like the show is shot in one go with no edits. While he's doing the
> work!
>
> If you don't like hand tools, the song of a sharp plane, and need to
> hear a motor roaring to feel you're really working (or believing the
> machine always does it faster), then Roy's show is certainly not for
> you. Me? The more I watch the guy the more I appreciate him and what
> he does.
>
> R
When it comes to woodwork Roy Underhill has every one beat.
I became a dedicated viewer when he brought a 12" oak log into the shop
and cut two 2" planks with just his hatchet and a wedge. That was years
ago.
Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Sun, 30 Jan 2011 12:41:01 -0600, Swingman<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On 1/30/2011 11:56 AM, Michael Kenefick wrote:
>>
>>>> If you don't like hand tools, the song of a sharp plane, and need to
>>>> hear a motor roaring to feel you're really working (or believing the
>>>> machine always does it faster), then Roy's show is certainly not for
>>>> you. Me? The more I watch the guy the more I appreciate him and what
>>>> he does.
>>
>> I like Roy, his show, appreciate what he does, and the fact that he is
>> also one of the nicest guys around ... but what do you reckon his
>> response would be if I told him that he, and one partner, must build, to
>> designer spec, 28 wall and base cabinets, 20 dovetailed drawers, 6 shop
>> built pullouts, 60 doors/drawer fronts, associated shelving, and install
>> them in a precise dimensioned location in 30 days of work?
>>
>> Methinks the lad would quickly grab for a tailed tool or two, or more ...
>
> I'm not so sure, Swingy. The man is QUICK! And have you ever watched
> that handy Hungarian, Frank Klausz, make dovetails? He's quicker
> doing up a drawer than a Normite is just setting up his first jig.
I watched him do it today on "The Woodworking Shows" complimentary show
DVD. How the heck can he turn his bow saw so quick when he's cutting out
the waste between tenons??? I don't have a saw like his, but it's
amazing (he probably did some trimming, but that part wasn't show it in
the DVD).
Bill
> It's amazing. With Roy's love of woodworking, I think he'd likely go
> with handtools everywhere.
>
>
>> Often our trueness to our Normite/Neander philosophy depends upon
>> whether you need to make a living at it or not. :)
>
> I use power on my own projects when something is too delicate for
> handtools. I use power almost exclusively on site for clients because
> they won't pay me extra for Neanderwork. ;)
>
> --
> An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile,
> hoping it will eat him last.
> -- Sir Winston Churchill
"Bill" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
> I watched him do it today on "The Woodworking Shows" complimentary show
> DVD. How the heck can he turn his bow saw so quick when he's cutting out
> the waste between tenons??? I don't have a saw like his, but it's
> amazing (he probably did some trimming, but that part wasn't show it in
> the DVD).
>
> Bill
A few years ago at one of TWWS I saw a guy cut around a corner
with a bowsaw without rotating the frame. After his presentation I
took a look at his bowsaw. It had a 90 degree twist in the center of the
blade (for maybe 1/4 or less of the blade length). So using the front
section he could cut straight down, the center turned the corner and the
rear section cut horizontally. Maybe Klausz did it like that?
Art
Artemus wrote:
> "Bill"<[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>>
>> I watched him do it today on "The Woodworking Shows" complimentary show
>> DVD. How the heck can he turn his bow saw so quick when he's cutting out
>> the waste between tenons??? I don't have a saw like his, but it's
>> amazing (he probably did some trimming, but that part wasn't show it in
>> the DVD).
>>
>> Bill
>
>
> A few years ago at one of TWWS I saw a guy cut around a corner
> with a bowsaw without rotating the frame. After his presentation I
> took a look at his bowsaw. It had a 90 degree twist in the center of the
> blade (for maybe 1/4 or less of the blade length). So using the front
> section he could cut straight down, the center turned the corner and the
> rear section cut horizontally. Maybe Klausz did it like that?
> Art
>
Maybe so--is was Just Too Easy. When I think about a saw blade bent that
way it seems to make alot of sense. I'll another look at the dvd and
see what I can see. Thank you for making your post!
Bill
Artemus wrote:
> "Bill"<[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>>
>> I watched him do it today on "The Woodworking Shows" complimentary show
>> DVD. How the heck can he turn his bow saw so quick when he's cutting out
>> the waste between tenons??? I don't have a saw like his, but it's
>> amazing (he probably did some trimming, but that part wasn't show it in
>> the DVD).
>>
>> Bill
>
>
> A few years ago at one of TWWS I saw a guy cut around a corner
> with a bowsaw without rotating the frame. After his presentation I
> took a look at his bowsaw. It had a 90 degree twist in the center of the
> blade (for maybe 1/4 or less of the blade length). So using the front
> section he could cut straight down, the center turned the corner and the
> rear section cut horizontally. Maybe Klausz did it like that?
> Art
>
In case anyone is interested in this, I'm reporting from the DVD. Klausz
uses a bow saw with about a 1 1/2" blade to cut his pins, vertically.
Then he uses another bow saw (he calls his "tenon cut-out saw") that has
about a 3/8" blade with a 90 degree twist near the end. The twist occurs
over several inches. Insert blade into previous vertical cut, push a
little, and you're cutting horizontally. Slick.
Bill
On Tue, 01 Feb 2011 10:10:46 -0800, RicodJour wrote:
> More accurate? Elaborate please. Unless, of course, you're talking
> about woodworking accuracy beyond a few thousandths. If you're talking
> about four decimal places, then that's a waste of time and not
> efficient.
I'd suggest that any accuracy beyond 1/64" is wishful thinking. And for
a lot of us that ought to be 1/32". And neither lasts past the first
humidity change :-).
--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw
On Mon, 31 Jan 2011 18:51:36 -0800, RicodJour wrote:
> I also collect antique tools. I use antique tools on a daily basis. I
> bought a tool collection from an estate sale - that guy had some eye and
> had been collecting for years. So I got several workshops full in one
> fell swoop. It was kinda, sorta 'cheating' I guess, but hey, the price
> was right! So from that one purchase I have literally hundreds of hand
> planes. I have pretty much the complete Stanley catalog, with a few
> notable (read expensive) exceptions, tools that would fit right in with
> Rob H's quizzes, coach building tools, pretty much any woodworking hand
> tool you could think of.
I think I hate you :-). I also have the garage sale habit, but the best
I've ever done was either a 1948 Delta tablesaw or an old Stanley double
spokeshave that was like new.
BTW, there's a story on that spokeshave. I tried to find out how old it
was. Best I could do was pre-1910. So when antiques road show came to
town I took it in. The expert said it was from the 1800s (I forget the
exact year), was the best condition he'd ever seen, and could well have
been part of the first production run of that model. I thanked him for
the info and said I would be using the spokeshave. He looked at me and
said "Don't you dare!" - I think of that each time I even look at the
spokeshave :-).
--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw
RicodJour wrote:
> On Feb 1, 3:08 pm, Swingman<[email protected]> wrote:
>> On 2/1/2011 12:07 PM, RicodJour wrote:
>>> On Feb 1, 5:24 am, Swingman<[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>> Problem here is that you ignored/didn't address the topic in my post in
>>>> which you chose to insert your opinions. :)
>>
>>>> NBD, but doing so would have kept your assumptions from running rampant
>>>> down a path that doesn't exist.
>>
>>> I don't answer set up questions such as, were you the stupidest kid on
>>> your bus?
>>
>> Woodworking to me is not plywood and it is not just kitchens, modern or otherwise.
RicodJour,
You must admit you slung a little mud Karl's way. You write quite
eloquently. However, it would be akin to you saying that you know
the C++ programming language better than me (which is plausible).
Basically, if I may be allowed to translate, he said, "put-up or
shut-up". Personally, I'm always interested in looking at superb
workmanship! I am watching with interest!
Bill
>>
>> It is evident that "Kitchens" were simply used as an example to make a
>> point about tailed tools in my initial post, a fact which you continue
>> to ignore, but insist on misappropriating as a basis for your misguided
>> assumptions/purposes.
>>
>> So, let's have a little 'show n' tell' to clear the air, shall we?
>>
>> Just a sampling of my woodworking, such as it is (and obviously paltry
>> compared to a "real woodworker" of your apparent stature), is free for
>> the world to see in the link below, very little of which, you will note,
>> has anything to do with kitchens.
>>
>> And, while we're tickled to have someone with your exalted expertise
>> offering opinions as how the world of woodworking is conducted, it would
>> be awfully upfront of you to actually show us some evidence of same.
>>
>> (IIRC, this is not the first time this request has been made of you)
>>
>> IOW, you indeed talk a good game, but do you really walk the talk?
>>
>> Show us something besides hot air ... how about it?
>
> Nice straw man, Karl. Not biting - sorry. You have a web site -
> wow. Exciting. I should get one one day. I just happen to have an
> opinion you don't share, and somehow you seem to feel that's a threat
> to you and you want to start whipping out dicks.
>
> In essence you're calling me a liar - as if you can't tell from my
> writing that I know what I'm talking about...yet you want me to post
> pictures of my work. Hey Sparky, how would you even know they're my
> work? I'm a liar, remember? Maybe I should stand in the
> picture...but what do I look like? Sheesh. Think first, type later.
>
> As an aside, I recently told a girlfriend to not bring a lot of
> samples of her work to a store that was looking to hire. The place
> put out a cattle call, and it was easy to imagine the interviewer
> being rushed, manhandling your work for 15 or 20 seconds, and tossing
> it on the end of the table. I respect my work and the work of other
> people (yes, even machine work) too much to do that or have it done to
> my work. I told her to just compliment all of the nice work that
> she'd seen that people brought, and then apologize that she didn't
> have samples to show because all of her work sold. Sorry, more
> philosophy.
>
> If I hurt your feelings, or you feel I impugned your work, that was
> unintentional. What was intentional was you belittling me for sharing
> some of my background and philosophy, and having the temerity to have
> an opinion you did not share. I've already pointed out that I am not
> the fastest guy with power or hand tools, but I'd put the finished
> product up against anyone's. I'd lose sometimes, but I'd hold my own.
>
> You shouldn't care what I do in my shop, so I'm not quite so sure why
> this is an issue for you. What I object to is the erroneous belief
> that 'progress', and in particular attempting to supplant Mens et
> Manus with Batteries et Idiot-proof, is an ever upward trend. I
> object to bullshit. I present an alternative opinion and you view it
> as some sort of threat to your manhood and want to start whipping out
> dicks.
>
> My point was, and still is, that power tools don't automatically make
> the job faster and better. That skill with hand tools is a lost art
> because people buy into the "latest and greatest" power tool crap.
> That craftsmen are no longer coached, they're more an accidental
> result. And yes, I blame power tools for a lot of that. Hand tools
> wielded by skilled hands can be more enjoyable and just as profitable
> for a one man band shop.
>
> I have not advertised in twenty five years, haven't had business cards
> printed up in twenty, don't have a web site, and don't try to drum up
> work. It finds me. All of my business in that time has been by word
> of mouth. I moved to New Orleans for a few years for a relationship
> (don't _ever_ do that) and people were still calling to see if I'd be
> interested in doing their project knowing full well that I lived 1500
> miles away. Again, don't just read this, check my posting history if
> you'd like. Unless you believe that I've been setting up my 'cover
> story' on Usenet for years in anticipation of having to prove myself
> to you.
>
> I pick and choose what projects I do, and only projects that interest
> me, or those for really good customers, make the cut. I turn work
> down because I don't like the people, and don't want to work with/for
> them.
>
> And here you are saying, "Hey, I'm acting like a dick, impress me!"
> That'll happen.
>
> R
On Tue, 01 Feb 2011 14:18:53 -0500, Lee Michaels wrote:
> He looked at me and
>> said "Don't you dare!" - I think of that each time I even look at the
>> spokeshave :-).
>>
> -----------------
>
> Well......, when are you going to tell us??
>
> HOW MUCH WAS IT WORTH???
>
> <tapping foot>
>
Actually, not all that much. Average price is in the $60-$90 range.
Since mine was so pristine, he said he'd price it at about $150 in his
shop. Nothing to get excited about.
--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw
On Tue, 01 Feb 2011 14:11:42 -0800, RicodJour wrote:
> My point was, and still is, that power tools don't automatically make
> the job faster and better. That skill with hand tools is a lost art
> because people buy into the "latest and greatest" power tool crap. That
> craftsmen are no longer coached, they're more an accidental result. And
> yes, I blame power tools for a lot of that. Hand tools wielded by
> skilled hands can be more enjoyable and just as profitable for a one man
> band shop.
Agreed. That said, I do use power tools a lot of the time. I caught a
lot of flak here a few years ago when I said I wouldn't put "hand made
by" on my work if I'd used power tools to build it. I still won't.
--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw
On 2/1/11 6:58 PM, Swingman wrote:
> On 2/1/2011 4:11 PM, RicodJour wrote:
>
>>> and somehow you seem to feel that's a threat
>>> to you and you want to start whipping out dicks.
>
> And yes, my deck is indeed bigger than yours:
>
> http://picasaweb.google.com/karlcaillouet/Deck?authkey=Gv1sRgCLDfivea3faslAE#
>
>
> Your turn ... :)
>
d@mn!t! I just spent about 20 seconds trying to find the "Like" button.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
"RP" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:9716f7fa-31c4-4895-b1e2-94f0d53f22ea@h19g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
<snip>
It woulda took me 2 hours to type all that...
RP
It would have taken you 10 seconds to snip that 16K of text before you
added your 10 words. Give the dial-up guys a break. Eh?
Art
On Sat, 05 Feb 2011 03:35:37 +0000, Larry wrote:
> Repeatable accuracy of a
> couple of thousandths is very easy to obtain. Needless to say I was
> sold.
I've got the original IncraJig to which I added a fence. You're right,
repeatable accuracy is excellent. But there's a big difference between
that and absolute accuracy. For example, I could rip 2 different boards
to 3" wide and move and restore the fence between each one using the
Incra. All 3 boards would be very close to the same width - as you say,
a few thousandths. But how close they were to 3" is still dependent on
my original setup -that's where the 1/64" comes in.
OTOH, your 1/4" groove for inlay is only dependent on the diameter of the
router bit and the runout on the router. Measurement doesn't enter into
it.
--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw
Swingman wrote:
> On 2/5/2011 12:50 PM, DGDevin wrote:
>>
>>
>> "Swingman" wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>
>>
>>> I'll buy that only when you can show me pictoral proof where either of
>>> these guys has built a complete modern kitchen with their untailed
>>> tools, bow saws and dovetail saws, one containing provisions for all
>>> the modern conveniences and accouterments expected in today's high end
>>> kitchens, and done in a sufficient time and manner to justify the
>>> labor costs to make a living at it ... .
>>
>> I remember a shop class teacher (in a previous century) who told the
>> class how he'd finished his basement using nothing but hand tools. Being
>> young smartasses we asked him why he didn't wire the basement first so
>> he could use power tools. Wish I'd paid more attention back then.
>
> I helped my grandfather and an uncle build/add on to their houses in the
> middle of the last century, with nothing but hand tools. My dad and I
> built all our barns, and a duck hunting boat, with nothing but hand
> tools in the early 50's ... thank gawd for electricity.
The granary/elevator, house and barn here were all built prior to 1920
and all except the elevator (which was first building on the place
beginning in 1914 and predates the old Delco WindCharger as well) show
signs of power tools. Most was hand work, of course, but tools were in
use besides. The most obvious was in the shaping work in finish work
where obviously there was a shaper in use.
--
On 2/5/11 1:09 PM, Swingman wrote:
> On 2/5/2011 12:50 PM, DGDevin wrote:
>>
>>
>> "Swingman" wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>
>>
>>> I'll buy that only when you can show me pictoral proof where either of
>>> these guys has built a complete modern kitchen with their untailed
>>> tools, bow saws and dovetail saws, one containing provisions for all
>>> the modern conveniences and accouterments expected in today's high end
>>> kitchens, and done in a sufficient time and manner to justify the
>>> labor costs to make a living at it ... .
>>
>> I remember a shop class teacher (in a previous century) who told the
>> class how he'd finished his basement using nothing but hand tools. Being
>> young smartasses we asked him why he didn't wire the basement first so
>> he could use power tools. Wish I'd paid more attention back then.
>
> I helped my grandfather and an uncle build/add on to their houses in the
> middle of the last century, with nothing but hand tools. My dad and I
> built all our barns, and a duck hunting boat, with nothing but hand
> tools in the early 50's ... thank gawd for electricity.
>
A friends of mine built his first house with a chainsaw and hammer.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
Swingman wrote:
...
> lucky to have gravel roads, much less electricity, into the late 40's.
...
We didn't get REA power until '48 after WW II. The Delco went in
sometime very early but I don't know exactly when--the first picture I
have of the barn shows the power to it and the house was wired in
preparation when it was built in '15-'16.
I do not know (never thought to ask Dad) how they powered the equipment,
the 32V DC windcharger surely didn't.
The elevator (first overhead grain storage on farm in the county) was
initally powered w/ gasoline engine and jackshafts/flat belts; I presume
they must have set up a shop area somewhere similarly but that's
supposition, not knowledge.
--
On 2/5/11 5:35 PM, Swingman wrote:
> On 2/5/2011 5:14 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>
>> A friends of mine built his first house with a chainsaw and hammer.
>
> I'm not surprised in the least (after some of the places I stayed in the
> Army) You do what you gotta do ... :)
>
> AAMOF, I once had a "house" built, in Papua New Guinea, for 12 pounds
> AUS and a carton of Marlboro cigarettes, and without a nail in it ...
> but that's a different story. :)
>
Having recently used a chainsaw for the first time, I'm much less in awe
of those chainsaw sculpture guys at the fair. It didn't take long at all
to get very accurate with the thing.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
RicodJour wrote:
> On Feb 5, 8:37 pm, Swingman<[email protected]> wrote:
>> On 2/5/2011 6:35 PM, RicodJour wrote:
>>
>> <snipped hot air, of the most despicable kind, anonymous>
>>
>>> don't treat me with respect, I may or may not treat you with respect
>>> depending on my mood at that moment, and I will reserve the right to
>>> bust your balls as I see fit.
>>
>> I'm more than happy to take your best shots, Bubba ... Fire away.
>>
>> But it'll take real balls, something anonymity belies.
>>
>> The question, as it always has been, is whether you have sufficient
>> chops ... an always doubtful state of affairs for those relying on
>> anonymity as a shield for falsehoods.
>>
>> Until you stop hiding, you're the joke.
>
> Sigh. My dear, Karl*, as I said earlier, yelling, "Hey! I'm a maroon
> impress me!" won't elicit good results.
>
> I promise one day I will show you my work, but it won't be on the
> internet. If it means that much to you I don't mind taking a
> vacation. We'll go to a bar, listen to some music, and I'll show you
> my work in person.
Gosh, do you carve tie-clasps? Folks with great chops often seem to be
more modest. Even James Krenov was more modest.
You can admit in the anonymity of a bar that
> you've been acting childish for years. And you won't have to do it in
> front of other people on the internet. You'll be able to save face,
> and I also promise that I'll never mention it in any newsgroup at any
> time. I'm big like that. I'll buy the first round. Beer only, so
> don't go pulling any of that top shelf stuff.
> I'm quite serious.
I'm sure. Do you have any publications?
>
> I do have one question. Since you reject everything I say, does that
> mean you're not going to go after the unclaimed property money I found
> for you in that link I posted earlier? I didn't have to do that. If
> I wanted to 'hurt' you I could have simply kept my mouth shut, right?
> It's quite a bit of money, too. I'm guessing 1950 shares of stock has
> to be, what? Twenty or thirty grand? I just paid your mortgage for a
> year or two, and I didn't even get a thank you. If you reject my
> efforts on your behalf, and you've let your attention to detail lapse
> in this matter as well, for 18 years, hell, you obviously don't need
> the money, so why don't you donate it? Donating it in my name,
> anonymous, would be a gentlemanly and charitable thing to do. I'll
> still buy the first round either way.
>
> R
>
> * Assuming that Karl is your real name. I've never met you, I've
> never seen you, I don't know anyone that knows you, and I've never
> seen your birth certificate. For all I know you were born in Kenya.
> Post your notarized birth certificate forthwith! ;)
On 2/6/11 7:50 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> -MIKE- wrote:
>
>>
>> Having recently used a chainsaw for the first time, I'm much less in
>> awe of those chainsaw sculpture guys at the fair. It didn't take
>> long at all to get very accurate with the thing.
>
> If you can do that kind of thing (even after a little practice), I'm going
> to be in awe of you! My son is one of those guys that can do that kind of
> thing, and I have no idea where he gets that from. Some people have it and
> the rest of us don't. I just can't figure out how some people can look at a
> log or a block of ice, and see something inside it, and then just cut away
> everything else. Hell too me, it's just a hunk of wood or ice.
>
I'm not talking about the creative side of it. About all I could ever
make from play-dough was a multi-colored turd. I'm just talking about
the dexterity and accuracy one attains, fairly quickly, with a chain saw.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
On 2/6/11 12:32 PM, RicodJour wrote:
> On Feb 6, 1:10 pm, -MIKE-<[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> I'm not talking about the creative side of it. About all I could ever
>> make from play-dough was a multi-colored turd. I'm just talking about
>> the dexterity and accuracy one attains, fairly quickly, with a chain saw.
>
> What size/weight chainsaw were you playing around with when you were
> trying it out?
>
> R
Tiny.... I think it was a 15 Husqvarna.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
On 2/6/11 1:13 PM, RicodJour wrote:
> On Feb 6, 1:41 pm, -MIKE-<[email protected]> wrote:
>> On 2/6/11 12:32 PM, RicodJour wrote:
>>
>>> On Feb 6, 1:10 pm, -MIKE-<[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>> I'm not talking about the creative side of it. About all I could ever
>>>> make from play-dough was a multi-colored turd. I'm just talking about
>>>> the dexterity and accuracy one attains, fairly quickly, with a chain saw.
>>
>>> What size/weight chainsaw were you playing around with when you were
>>> trying it out?
>>
>>
>> Tiny.... I think it was a 15 Husqvarna.
>
> Okay, thanks. The reason I was asking is that the owner had a tree
> cut down on one project I was working on, and I had them leave a 3.5'
> stump with the idea that at some point I'd chainsaw carve it. I have
> a buddy who goes through collecting phases, and currently he's
> collecting chainsaws - go figure. So, maybe it's about time.
>
> R
The college I went to was a tech school..... 13th & 14th grade, really. :-)
They taught forestry which included chainsaw training. They used
everything from little toy-looking saws to the ones so long they had to
go diagonal in the bed of a pickup.
Each year they had a big festival with all kinds of competitions like
those timber sports events you see on espn... in fact espn started
covering this one. Anyway, they had dozens of guys doing chainsaw
art/carvings from wood and ice. IIRC, they all used the smaller, lighter
chainsaws to do that work.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
On 2/7/2011 4:17 PM, RicodJour wrote:
> On Feb 7, 4:19 pm, "Lew Hodgett"<[email protected]> wrote:
>> "RicodJour" wrote:
>>
>> <snip>.> Let me ask you a question - what do you think I should have done?
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> Perform aerial intercourse on a rotating annular spheroid.
>
> ÎÒûÓÐÊÔ¹ýµÄ¡£ÇëÕÅÌùͼƬºÍ˵Ã÷¡£Ð»Ð»£¡ ;£©
>
> R
Sure, I can give you a description. What Lew describes is another way of
saying "Take a flying fuck at a rolling doughnut." If you want a picture
you'll have to use your imagination.
--
See Nad. See Nad go. Go Nad!
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/
On 1/30/2011 2:53 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Sun, 30 Jan 2011 12:41:01 -0600, Swingman<[email protected]> wrote:
>> Methinks the lad would quickly grab for a tailed tool or two, or more ...
>
> I'm not so sure, Swingy. The man is QUICK! And have you ever watched
> that handy Hungarian, Frank Klausz, make dovetails? He's quicker
> doing up a drawer than a Normite is just setting up his first jig.
> It's amazing. With Roy's love of woodworking, I think he'd likely go
> with handtools everywhere.
OK ... that takes care of a few drawer SIDES. Now, let's get all that
plywood batchcut ...
>> Often our trueness to our Normite/Neander philosophy depends upon
>> whether you need to make a living at it or not. :)
>
> I use power on my own projects when something is too delicate for
> handtools. I use power almost exclusively on site for clients because
> they won't pay me extra for Neanderwork. ;)
Just the opposite, I use handtools on my projects when something is too
delicate for power tools ... <g>
Hey, I'm Neander to the extent that all my chisels and planes are kept
sharp and in fine fettle ... most of the time. :)
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)
On Sun, 30 Jan 2011 15:17:22 -0600, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>On 1/30/2011 2:53 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>> On Sun, 30 Jan 2011 12:41:01 -0600, Swingman<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>> Methinks the lad would quickly grab for a tailed tool or two, or more ...
>>
>> I'm not so sure, Swingy. The man is QUICK! And have you ever watched
>> that handy Hungarian, Frank Klausz, make dovetails? He's quicker
>> doing up a drawer than a Normite is just setting up his first jig.
>> It's amazing. With Roy's love of woodworking, I think he'd likely go
>> with handtools everywhere.
>
>OK ... that takes care of a few drawer SIDES. Now, let's get all that
>plywood batchcut ...
Hell, he wouldn't use that crap. He's glueup and use real wood, sir.
>>> Often our trueness to our Normite/Neander philosophy depends upon
>>> whether you need to make a living at it or not. :)
>>
>> I use power on my own projects when something is too delicate for
>> handtools. I use power almost exclusively on site for clients because
>> they won't pay me extra for Neanderwork. ;)
>
>Just the opposite, I use handtools on my projects when something is too
>delicate for power tools ... <g>
You take an RCH off the length of a board with a Disston instead of a
CMS, do ya? I've tried it with my ryoba, too, and the CMS wins every
time. I love that ryoba, though. Got it at Japan Woodworker.
I got this one for $25 delivered (long ago) with a coupon from FWW:
http://tinyurl.com/6e2llpn
Here's the festering version for you, Toy, and Leon:
http://tinyurl.com/6edakhx
>Hey, I'm Neander to the extent that all my chisels and planes are kept
>sharp and in fine fettle ... most of the time. :)
Bueno, bwana.
--
An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile,
hoping it will eat him last.
-- Sir Winston Churchill
On 2/5/2011 5:06 PM, dpb wrote:
> Swingman wrote:
>> I helped my grandfather and an uncle build/add on to their houses in
>> the middle of the last century, with nothing but hand tools. My dad
>> and I built all our barns, and a duck hunting boat, with nothing but
>> hand tools in the early 50's ... thank gawd for electricity.
>
> The granary/elevator, house and barn here were all built prior to 1920
> and all except the elevator (which was first building on the place
> beginning in 1914 and predates the old Delco WindCharger as well) show
> signs of power tools. Most was hand work, of course, but tools were in
> use besides. The most obvious was in the shaping work in finish work
> where obviously there was a shaper in use.
My maternal grandfather owned a sawmill and had a shop on his farm,
between Eunice and Basile, LA ... anyone familiar with rural LA in this
time period (mid to late 40's and into the early 50's) will not be
surprised to know that it was routine to see fifty or so teams and
buggy's in front of the church on a Sunday morning. Hell, they were
lucky to have gravel roads, much less electricity, into the late 40's.
My grandfather felled the trees, cut and dried the lumber and built the
farm house, the outbuildings, the shop and all the furniture in the
house from oak and hog pecan on his land. His shop, a place I spent a
considerable amount of time in as a youngster playing, and working doing
minor woodworking chores for him, did not have a single electric tool in
it. I learned to use a hand saw to rip at the age of six ... wrote a
story about that that was posted here a few years back called "A gloat
of magical proportions".
I would give anything to have him come sit in _my_ shop for just ten
minutes and see how much things have changed in that time.
Age based perspective colors a lot of attitudes and opinions about
woodworking, to say the least. :)
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)
Yes - The trees were stacked trunk across trunk on one side
and it was taller than the house. I checked this fall and the limbs
cracked or were driven into the ground. All trunks are now as a wall.
They cross a small creek - so there is some danger and tricks to be done.
I'll pare back the limbs and work top down from one end. Wish I
had a friend with a bucket truck - I'd make a trail in summer and
have better access.
The horse farm behind us cleared a large field of all tree and put up
a fence. The storm swept from the open field and hit my trees
broadside. Normally with others in between the wind would vary and
ride over.
Oh well.
Martin - wood. Now where is the money for a Bandsaw sawmill!
On 2/6/2011 9:18 PM, RicodJour wrote:
> On Feb 6, 10:13 pm, Martin Eastburn<[email protected]>
> wrote:
>>
>> Currently have three trees down in the front yard and
>> several dozen (guess) in the wood lot. Heavy storm takes
>> out trees easily. Ike took out 2 acres of my trees.
>
> You lost two acres of trees...? I guess you're set for firewood for a
> while.
>
> R
"RicodJour" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
Power tools are just an extension of the industrial revolution's aim
to obviate operator skill in favor of cheap labor. There's also the
question of cost in outfitting a shop. A complete joiner's shop back
in the day fit in a 3'x2'x2' box. Now a guy figures he can't do any
work unless he has ten grand in tools - to start. Journeymen
carpenters walked around with a roll with their tools inside, often
just the blades and bits, and made handles, benches and whatever else
was needed on the spot.
We've gained some with power tools, but we've lost just as much
because of them. I still wish that carpenters wore corduroy suits so
we could see at a glance who was in the brotherhood.
It is very obvious, by the above, that you do not build things for a living.
On 2/4/2011 12:21 AM, RicodJour wrote:
> On Feb 1, 7:58 pm, Swingman<[email protected]> wrote:
>> On 2/1/2011 4:11 PM, RicodJour wrote:
>>
>>>> and somehow you seem to feel that's a threat
>>>> to you and you want to start whipping out dicks.
>>
>> And yes, my deck is indeed bigger than yours:
>>
>> http://picasaweb.google.com/karlcaillouet/Deck?authkey=Gv1sRgCLDfivea...
>>
>> Your turn ... :)
>
> Hi, Karl. Thanks for inviting me to play. This should be fun.
> Straight off the bat I should point out that I admit you are a bigger
> deck, but I am not quite sure what that thing in those pictures is
> supposed to be. It almost looks like a deck, but I can't be quite
> sure until it's finished. I guess you posted the link to those
> pictures for me so I could help you out with some of the details. No
> problem, I have a little free time so I'll work up a punchlist for
> you. Don't worry, there's no charge!
LMAO ... you need to do something for that cabin fever, Bubba. Good
thing for you spring is just around the corner. Still a little mental
hygiene may be in order ... get out, go to a mall, mix with something
besides a keyboard. It'll do you good.
<that should put me way ahead on the intrinsic worth of the advice being
proffered> ;)
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)
On 1/31/2011 8:51 PM, RicodJour wrote:
> On Jan 31, 3:59 pm, Swingman<[email protected]> wrote:
>> I'll buy that only when you can show me pictoral proof where either of
>> these guys has built a complete modern kitchen with their untailed
>> tools, bow saws and dovetail saws, one containing provisions for all the
>> modern conveniences and accouterments expected in today's high end
>> kitchens, and done in a sufficient time and manner to justify the labor
>> costs to make a living at it ... .
>>
>> ... until then, I say horsedookie ... ;)
>
> If woodworking to you is simply banging out 'modern' kitchens, then,
> sure, you win. Funnily enough, I don't think MDF is wood and I'm
> still on the fence about plywood being wood. I refuse to call working
> something other than wood, woodworking - that's just me. It has
> nothing to do with anyone else's preferences and predilections. You
> like it, knock yourself out.
Problem here is that you ignored/didn't address the topic in my post in
which you chose to insert your opinions. :)
NBD, but doing so would have kept your assumptions from running rampant
down a path that doesn't exist.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)
On 1/30/2011 10:36 PM, RicodJour wrote:
> For every this-is-why-power-tools-are-faster scenario you could come
> up with, I could come up with a scenario where hand tools are faster/
> better. If you choose plywood batch cutting, I say running off 12' of
> custom molding to match period molding.
I'll buy that only when you can show me pictoral proof where either of
these guys has built a complete modern kitchen with their untailed
tools, bow saws and dovetail saws, one containing provisions for all the
modern conveniences and accouterments expected in today's high end
kitchens, and done in a sufficient time and manner to justify the labor
costs to make a living at it ... .
... until then, I say horsedookie ... ;)
> Power tools are just an extension of the industrial revolution's aim
> to obviate operator skill in favor of cheap labor. There's also the
> question of cost in outfitting a shop. A complete joiner's shop back
> in the day fit in a 3'x2'x2' box. Now a guy figures he can't do any
> work unless he has ten grand in tools - to start. Journeymen
> carpenters walked around with a roll with their tools inside, often
> just the blades and bits, and made handles, benches and whatever else
> was needed on the spot.
>
> We've gained some with power tools, but we've lost just as much
> because of them. I still wish that carpenters wore corduroy suits so
> we could see at a glance who was in the brotherhood.
Sorry, don't buy it. Been hanging in woodworking shops for over 60 years
and the tool world has _never_ been more conducive to turning out a
higher volume of _quality_ work than it is at present.
C'mom, gimme me some pictoral proof to back up your contention ... I've
got more of that on my side than you can wade through in a month of Sundays.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)