To support my woodworking habit (which has unfortunately been on
furlough the past 6 months) I write reports and articles on social and
anthropological issues.
For the past 7 months we have been running a survey among various
groups. I thought it would be fun to do the wreck. In a week or so
I'll tabulate the responses and post them here for all to see what we
do with that other kind of wood.
The survey is completely confidential (eg, there is no identifying
information) and anything I post on here will be in aggregate
including comparing wreckers (as a group) to the world population in
general.
Just for your own comfort - everyone does themselves at least
occasionally, 71% of men (and 38% of women) cheat at least once and
most of those have paid to get it, and people in Oz (is Black Sheep
still around?) have the most active 'private lives' of all
industrialized nations.
Here's the survey:
http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.asp?u=42945251021
I love this type of survey, and have great fun submitting totally false
answers, multiple times.
As self-selecting surveys are statistically and scientifically
meaningless, treating them this way is just as useful to the surveyer
as answering honestly!
djb
--
"Let's just admit that public education is mediocre at best." -- Frank Zappa
In article <[email protected]>, Folklore
<[email protected]> wrote:
> Why?
Hell, you've already admitted there's no scientific validity, therefore
it must just be for fun, right?
I like having fun.
Fun is good, it's, well, fun!
And given the questions you're asking on the survey, which is by your
own admission non-scientific, I think it's fair to assume there is some
prurient interest on your part in posting it.
I don't have any problem with that, and am just doing my part to help
you with your, shall we say, "interests"?
Maybe I'll be a 17 year old transsexual who never masturbates next
time...
Have fun,
djb
--
"If you wind up with a boring, miserable life because you listened to your mom,
your dad, your teacher, your priest or some guy on TV telling you how to do
your shit, then YOU DESERVE IT." -- From the Real Frank Zappa book
In article <[email protected]>, Folklore
<[email protected]> wrote:
> Now, why would you want to use your time (which I assume is at least
> somewhat valuable) to fill out the survey multiple times? How do you
> receive enjoyment from that?
Perversly, which I think is fair to say is how you're recieving your
pleasure from said survey (having traversed your various threads).
Is it the questions about pedophilia that give you your jollies, or the
ones about transexualism?
Just curious...
For me, I just get a thrill knowing that I'm wasting your time. Rock
on, Garth. Schwing!
But hey, I can admit it, and I post using my real name... which I hope
gives me some sort of validity. If only to allow folks to plonk me
consistently!
djb
--
"If you wind up with a boring, miserable life because you listened to your mom,
your dad, your teacher, your priest or some guy on TV telling you how to do
your shit, then YOU DESERVE IT." -- From the Real Frank Zappa book
In article <[email protected]>, Folklore
<[email protected]> wrote:
> I said that it's not statistically valid. There's a difference in
> statistically valid and scientifically useful.
Explain that difference, s' il vous plait.
If I wished, for some bizarre reason, to hire you to do market research
for me, how would you sell me a self-selecting survey as useful in any
way to my business?
You'll sell me a survey that is statistically invalid, but somehow
scientifically useful?
Do tell! "This I gotta see."
djb
--
"You couldn't get a clue during the clue mating season in a field full
of horny clues if you smeared your body with clue musk and did the
clue mating dance." -- Edward Flaherty
Sun, Aug 3, 2003, 7:06am (EDT+4) dave***@balderstone.ca
(Dave=A0Balderstone) read this from:
Folklore <[email protected]>:
I said that it's not statistically valid. There's a difference in
statistically valid and scientifically useful.
Then Dave was puzzled, and wanted to know:
Explain that difference, s' il vous plait.
If I wished, for some bizarre reason, to hire you to do market research
for me, how would you sell me a self-selecting survey as useful in any
way to my business?
You'll sell me a survey that is statistically invalid, but somehow
scientifically useful? Do tell! "This I gotta see."
OK Dave, I'll second your post to him. I read his post over
several time, and was puzzled too. I just couldn't figure out how to
phrase my question.
JOAT
Everything happens for a reason, except possibly football.
- Lu-Tze
Life just ain't life without good music. - JOAT
Web Page Update 23 Jul 2003. Some tunes I like.
http://community-2.webtv.net/Jakofalltrades/JOATorJackOfAll/page4.html
In article <[email protected]>, Folklore
<[email protected]> wrote:
> What have I said
> anywhere that would lead you to that conclusion?
The conclusion comes from reading the questions on your statistically
useless but somehow scientifically valuable survey.
Now, would you please answer my question (which I'll ask again):
"If I wished, for some bizarre reason, to hire you to do market research
for me, how would you sell me a self-selecting survey as useful in any
way to my business?
You'll sell me a survey that is statistically invalid, but somehow
scientifically useful?"
djb
--
"You couldn't get a clue during the clue mating season in a field full
of horny clues if you smeared your body with clue musk and did the
clue mating dance." -- Edward Flaherty
In article <[email protected]>, Robert Bonomi
<bonomi@c-ns.> wrote:
> He got carpal tunnel syndrome from bad technique in tossing monkey wrenches.
Youch! That would indeed be bad technique.
One does *not* use the wrist when tossing wrenches.
But my shoulder is damned sore...
;-)
--
"I don't always know what I'm talking about, but I know I'm right." -- Muhammad
Ali
On Fri, 01 Aug 2003 19:08:37 -0400, Tom Watson wrote:
> On Fri, 01 Aug 2003 17:53:50 -0500, Unisaw A100 <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>>UA100, sitting buck nekked when he reads the wreck...
>
> Ya know, El Sauro, I kinda wish ya hadn't jest driven that image inta
> ma tiny brain like a sixteen penny nail.
>
> Y'all Milwaikiki boyz sher dew know how ta have fun.
STOP IT, woodja! Now I got visions of choky starfish running through my
brain like a bad C & W song.
-Doug
On Fri, 01 Aug 2003 19:34:05 GMT, [email protected] (Doug Miller)
Said:
>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
>>Hi Bob.
>>
>>[...] Divorce in the US
>>has risen to near 60% of all marriages.
>
>This just isn't true.
>
>The actual statistic AFAIK is that the divorce rate is ~50% of the marriage
>rate. This does *not* mean that half of all marriages end in divorce. People
>get married all the time, people get divorced all the time -- but many times
>more people *stay* married.
You raise a good point. Current data indicates that 52% of first
marriages end in divorce, 72% of second, and 90% of third. Of all
marriages 58% end in divorce.
Thanks Chris. I thought about the missing OT just as I pressed post.
My bad.
Checking on the browser issues. Are you behind a firewall?
Thanks,
On Fri, 01 Aug 2003 17:19:59 GMT, Chris Merrill
<[email protected]> Said:
>Folklore wrote:
>> Here's the survey:
>> http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.asp?u=42945251021
>
>This should have been noted as OT!!!
>
>SurveyMonkey is a piece of crepe! (pardon my French)
>
>Tried with Mozilla (Netscape) 1.4 (the latest) and
>IE (5.5)...doesn't work with either.
Go away...
--
______________________
WoodJunkie
"Folklore" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> To support my woodworking habit (which has unfortunately been on
> furlough the past 6 months) I write reports and articles on social and
> anthropological issues.
>
> For the past 7 months we have been running a survey among various
> groups. I thought it would be fun to do the wreck. In a week or so
> I'll tabulate the responses and post them here for all to see what we
> do with that other kind of wood.
>
> The survey is completely confidential (eg, there is no identifying
> information) and anything I post on here will be in aggregate
> including comparing wreckers (as a group) to the world population in
> general.
>
> Just for your own comfort - everyone does themselves at least
> occasionally, 71% of men (and 38% of women) cheat at least once and
> most of those have paid to get it, and people in Oz (is Black Sheep
> still around?) have the most active 'private lives' of all
> industrialized nations.
>
> Here's the survey:
>
> http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.asp?u=42945251021
>
>
Folklore wrote:
> Here's the survey:
> http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.asp?u=42945251021
This should have been noted as OT!!!
SurveyMonkey is a piece of crepe! (pardon my French)
Tried with Mozilla (Netscape) 1.4 (the latest) and
IE (5.5)...doesn't work with either.
--
************************************
Chris Merrill
[email protected]
(remove the ZZZ to contact me)
************************************
On 5 Aug 2003 04:44:01 -0700, [email protected] (dteckie) Said:
>I'd be very interested in the stats from this survey. Can you please post .
I just got back in the office and am heading home. I hope to post the
results tomorrow morning.
Folk...
On Fri, 01 Aug 2003 15:54:57 -0400, [email protected] Said:
>Folklore <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Why the wreck? One reason is simply to continue to add to the number
>>of respondents and therefore the accuracy and value of the data.
>
>Self selected participants in a survey are useless statistically.
>
>Wes
You are correct. In reality any type of online survey is
statistically invalid and many statisticians don't care for them.
However, the internet has two advantages:
1) Cost. Conducting a statistically valid survey to collect this same
information would cost us approximately $4 per respondent, not
including survey design and analysis. With over 6,000 respondents
(and a target of 14,000) that's a chunk of change. Conducting the
survey online costs us less than $0.12 per respondent.
2) There is an advantage to self-selection when specific lifestyle
groups are targeted. Though this doesn't hold water statistically for
drawing conclusions, it can be of benefit in guiding our research
direction. It also provides some interesting views such as thus far
on rec.ww peoples overall satisfaction with their marriage is higher
than the population in general but their satisfaction with their sex
life is slightly lower.
Finally, we do some validation in norming our data against known data
such as cenus information and include questioning identical to both
the Janus and Hart reports for further comparison.
Bob S. wrote:
>I think between the trolls, the spammers and other weird cases of humanity
>mucking around in this group - we do not need to add your sexual fantasy
>survey - it serves no purpose.
Oh sure Bob, it's all fine and fun until somebody begins
putting up porn pictures of their brand new cherry work
bench.
>You may call it fun, I say take it elsewhere.
Ok, if you say so.
UA100, sitting buck nekked when he reads the wreck...
On Sun, 03 Aug 2003 07:01:33 GMT, Dave Balderstone
<dave***@balderstone.ca> Said:
>Perversly, which I think is fair to say is how you're recieving your
>pleasure from said survey (having traversed your various threads).
Can you please explain your reasoning some more. What have I said
anywhere that would lead you to that conclusion?
>For me, I just get a thrill knowing that I'm wasting your time. Rock
>on, Garth. Schwing!
How does that give you a thrill?
On Fri, 01 Aug 2003 17:53:50 -0500, Unisaw A100 <[email protected]>
wrote:
>UA100, sitting buck nekked when he reads the wreck...
Ya know, El Sauro, I kinda wish ya hadn't jest driven that image inta
ma tiny brain like a sixteen penny nail.
Y'all Milwaikiki boyz sher dew know how ta have fun.
Regards, Tom
Thomas J. Watson - Cabinetmaker
Gulph Mills, Pennsylvania
http://users.snip.net/~tjwatson
I answered the first two questions, clicked NEXT and it took me right back
to the same page.
--
Be sure to check out Joe's and Betty's webpages...
http://www.angelfire.com/jazz/kb8qlrjoe/index.html
"Folklore" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> To support my woodworking habit (which has unfortunately been on
> furlough the past 6 months) I write reports and articles on social and
> anthropological issues.
>
> For the past 7 months we have been running a survey among various
> groups. I thought it would be fun to do the wreck. In a week or so
> I'll tabulate the responses and post them here for all to see what we
> do with that other kind of wood.
>
> The survey is completely confidential (eg, there is no identifying
> information) and anything I post on here will be in aggregate
> including comparing wreckers (as a group) to the world population in
> general.
>
> Just for your own comfort - everyone does themselves at least
> occasionally, 71% of men (and 38% of women) cheat at least once and
> most of those have paid to get it, and people in Oz (is Black Sheep
> still around?) have the most active 'private lives' of all
> industrialized nations.
>
> Here's the survey:
>
> http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.asp?u=42945251021
>
>
Folklore wrote:
> Thanks Chris. I thought about the missing OT just as I pressed post.
> My bad.
>
> Checking on the browser issues. Are you behind a firewall?
Kinda...a Linksys NAT router for our office. No filtering turned on...other
than blocking non-HTTP and non-SSH ports. Never a problem with other
sites.
Incidentally, it worked this time...I think. It skipped to question
twenty-something after the first page. Very confusing.
************************************
Chris Merrill
[email protected]
(remove the ZZZ to contact me)
************************************
"Mike Brown" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> > Here's the survey:
> >
> > http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.asp?u=42945251021
>
> I can't get past the first page with either Mozilla 1.4 or IE 6.
Same here. Probably because the site sends the bad kind of cookie.
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
>Hi Bob.
>
>[...] Divorce in the US
>has risen to near 60% of all marriages.
This just isn't true.
The actual statistic AFAIK is that the divorce rate is ~50% of the marriage
rate. This does *not* mean that half of all marriages end in divorce. People
get married all the time, people get divorced all the time -- but many times
more people *stay* married.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
Save the baby humans - stop partial-birth abortion NOW
In article <[email protected]>,
Folklore <[email protected]> wrote:
>On Sat, 02 Aug 2003 22:19:56 GMT, Dave Balderstone
><dave***@balderstone.ca> Said:
>
>>In article <[email protected]>, Folklore
>><[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> Why?
>>
>>Hell, you've already admitted there's no scientific validity, therefore
>>it must just be for fun, right?
>
>I said that it's not statistically valid. There's a difference in
>statistically valid and scientifically useful.
>
>Now, why would you want to use your time (which I assume is at least
>somewhat valuable) to fill out the survey multiple times? How do you
>receive enjoyment from that?
>
>
He got carpal tunnel syndrome from bad technique in tossing monkey wrenches.
What he does now is a susbstitute.
It's another form of recreation.
Live with it.
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
says...
> http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.asp?u=42945251021
>
Yet another stupid site that can't deal with the fact that I have
cookies enabled but am behind a firewall (Zonealarm). Doesn't work with
either Mozilla or IE and I'm sure not going to take down the firewall
just to satisfy my morbid curiousity.
Not that I'd take a survey anyway, but was curious regarding the
questions.
I'd be very interested in the stats from this survey. Can you please post .
Folklore <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> To support my woodworking habit (which has unfortunately been on
> furlough the past 6 months) I write reports and articles on social and
> anthropological issues.
>
> For the past 7 months we have been running a survey among various
> groups. I thought it would be fun to do the wreck. In a week or so
> I'll tabulate the responses and post them here for all to see what we
> do with that other kind of wood.
>
> The survey is completely confidential (eg, there is no identifying
> information) and anything I post on here will be in aggregate
> including comparing wreckers (as a group) to the world population in
> general.
>
> Just for your own comfort - everyone does themselves at least
> occasionally, 71% of men (and 38% of women) cheat at least once and
> most of those have paid to get it, and people in Oz (is Black Sheep
> still around?) have the most active 'private lives' of all
> industrialized nations.
>
> Here's the survey:
>
> http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.asp?u=42945251021
Ditto ...
Speaking of "spam" ... been keeping count of the spam I get here at the
house since July 6, 2003. As of this AM, 4,214 UCE's in 25 days.
If public execution is the only way to put a stop to this sh*t, I am all for
it.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 7/28/03
"Bob S." wrote in message
> I think between the trolls, the spammers and other weird cases of humanity
> mucking around in this group - we do not need to add your sexual fantasy
> survey - it serves no purpose.
>
> You may call it fun, I say take it elsewhere.
>
> Bob S.
>
>
On Fri, 01 Aug 2003 15:36:57 GMT, "Ernie Jurick" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>This is a blackmailer's wet dream.
Not doubting you of course, but how do YOU know that? ;O)
Take Care,
Gnube
{too thick for linux}
Hi Bob.
The US has the highest level of rape of all industrialized nations,
and over 7 times the rate, per capita, as Europe. Divorce in the US
has risen to near 60% of all marriages. Teen pregnancies,
single-parenthood, and STD's (particularly Herpes and HPV among 8th -
11th graders) are a huge problem.
Too often in the US we shy away from discussing and addressing issues
such as this and then wonder why we have the problems we do. Through
information gathering such as this and other studies that are taking
place we will gain a better understanding of these issues and
hopefully be able to have a positive impact.
Why the wreck? One reason is simply to continue to add to the number
of respondents and therefore the accuracy and value of the data.
Another is that this is an area that many people are in fact
interested in. In other similar lifestyle groups where we've posted
the survey most of the people within the group have enjoyed seeing the
results and how their group compares to the rest of the population and
for a few, how they personally compare.
Folk...
On Fri, 01 Aug 2003 15:30:49 GMT, "Bob S." <[email protected]>
Said:
>I think between the trolls, the spammers and other weird cases of humanity
>mucking around in this group - we do not need to add your sexual fantasy
>survey - it serves no purpose.
>
>You may call it fun, I say take it elsewhere.
>
>Bob S.
>
On Sat, 02 Aug 2003 22:19:56 GMT, Dave Balderstone
<dave***@balderstone.ca> Said:
>In article <[email protected]>, Folklore
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Why?
>
>Hell, you've already admitted there's no scientific validity, therefore
>it must just be for fun, right?
I said that it's not statistically valid. There's a difference in
statistically valid and scientifically useful.
Now, why would you want to use your time (which I assume is at least
somewhat valuable) to fill out the survey multiple times? How do you
receive enjoyment from that?
On Fri, 01 Aug 2003 17:55:51 GMT, "BigJoe" <[email protected]>
Said:
>I answered the first two questions, clicked NEXT and it took me right back
>to the same page.
This issue has been corrected. This one was my fault in not setting
the route logic correctly.
On Fri, 1 Aug 2003 21:27:59 -0400 (EDT), [email protected]
(Jack-of-all-trades - JOAT) Said:
>Up.
>
>Yours.
As long as it ain't painted yellow :-)
Interesting, coming from someone who doesn't use a real name. Kinda makes
one wonder where those stats come from. And the "nospam.net" address is a
hoot given the nature of the thread.
John Emmons
"Folklore" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hi Bob.
>
> The US has the highest level of rape of all industrialized nations,
> and over 7 times the rate, per capita, as Europe. Divorce in the US
> has risen to near 60% of all marriages. Teen pregnancies,
> single-parenthood, and STD's (particularly Herpes and HPV among 8th -
> 11th graders) are a huge problem.
>
> Too often in the US we shy away from discussing and addressing issues
> such as this and then wonder why we have the problems we do. Through
> information gathering such as this and other studies that are taking
> place we will gain a better understanding of these issues and
> hopefully be able to have a positive impact.
>
> Why the wreck? One reason is simply to continue to add to the number
> of respondents and therefore the accuracy and value of the data.
> Another is that this is an area that many people are in fact
> interested in. In other similar lifestyle groups where we've posted
> the survey most of the people within the group have enjoyed seeing the
> results and how their group compares to the rest of the population and
> for a few, how they personally compare.
>
> Folk...
>
>
>
> On Fri, 01 Aug 2003 15:30:49 GMT, "Bob S." <[email protected]>
> Said:
>
> >I think between the trolls, the spammers and other weird cases of
humanity
> >mucking around in this group - we do not need to add your sexual fantasy
> >survey - it serves no purpose.
> >
> >You may call it fun, I say take it elsewhere.
> >
> >Bob S.
> >
>
This is the first I've heard of a firewall issue. They're checking
into it. I'd planned on posting the results in about a week so your
curiosity will be satisfied.
Thanks,
On Fri, 01 Aug 2003 16:23:57 GMT, Mark & Juanita
<[email protected]> Said:
>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>says...
>> http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.asp?u=42945251021
>>
>
> Yet another stupid site that can't deal with the fact that I have
>cookies enabled but am behind a firewall (Zonealarm). Doesn't work with
>either Mozilla or IE and I'm sure not going to take down the firewall
>just to satisfy my morbid curiousity.
>
> Not that I'd take a survey anyway, but was curious regarding the
>questions.
On 1 Aug 2003 10:41:13 -0700, [email protected] (Mike Brown) Said:
>> Here's the survey:
>>
>> http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.asp?u=42945251021
>
>I can't get past the first page with either Mozilla 1.4 or IE 6.
I screwed up the route logic. Corrected.
Thanks,
Folklore <[email protected]> wrote:
>Why the wreck? One reason is simply to continue to add to the number
>of respondents and therefore the accuracy and value of the data.
Self selected participants in a survey are useless statistically.
Wes
--
Reply to:
Whiskey Echo Sierra Sierra AT Gee Tee EYE EYE dot COM
Lycos address is a spam trap.
"Folklore" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hi Bob.
>
[snip]
>... rape...Divorce...Teen
pregnancies...single-parenthood...STD's...Herpes...HPV.
[snip]
>
> Too often in the US we shy away from discussing and addressing issues
Hells bells. TV, Radio, music, streetcorner, mall, now the wreck! we can't
get away from it. I just want to be able to hold off "the talk" until my
kids hit 3rd grade! The rest of the world is not somehow more enlightened.
Maybe we need less, not more.
Noel Montgomery