I'm looking for tips on cutting half laps with a dado blade on my table saw.
The saw lives in a friend's garage and I haven't installed the rails and
fence because I don't need them for the outdoor projects I've building.
My problem is sneaking up on the cut lines for these half laps since I can't
see them because they're turned down when doing the cutting. Careful as I am
sneaking up on the turned down cut lines, occasionally, I've cut too much
off which is a pain. Anybody got any tips for cutting these without going to
the effort of installing the rails and fence to use with a start off
reference block against the fence?
Thanks
"Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> I'm looking for tips on cutting half laps with a dado blade on my
> table saw. The saw lives in a friend's garage and I haven't installed
> the rails and fence because I don't need them for the outdoor projects
> I've building.
>
> My problem is sneaking up on the cut lines for these half laps since I
> can't see them because they're turned down when doing the cutting.
> Careful as I am sneaking up on the turned down cut lines,
> occasionally, I've cut too much off which is a pain. Anybody got any
> tips for cutting these without going to the effort of installing the
> rails and fence to use with a start off reference block against the
> fence?
>
> Thanks
>
>
I sometimes make one cut at the line (where I want it) and then cut the
rest out. You could even cut the line with a hand saw or router. The
advantage to this is you gain a kerf's width of fudge room.
Another thing I did was mark the outsides of the blade on the little
orange insert my saw has for doing this kind of stuff. That way, I've
got a reference to work with before the saw blade enters the work. It's
not always accurate with a wabble dado, though.
Puckdropper
--
"The potential difference between the top and bottom of a tree is the
reason why all trees have to be grounded..." -- Bored Borg on
rec.woodworking
To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm
"Robatoy" wrote
Dean Kamen can help out too.
http://www.dekaresearch.com/ibot.shtml
That guy is farking brilliant!!
===================
I saw one of these at the local mall. It was so intriguing, I went over and
talked to the guy. He was sitting in the chair when it was in the elevated
position. I asked him about that. He said he goes into that position when he
wants to look down the mall hall. I never thought about that, never have
been in a wheel chair.
Anyway, it has that balance feature in it that allows the person in the
chair to do all these kinds of things. I asked if the balance features was
similar to the segway. He said that it was not quite that sophisticated.
But similar technology. Maybe early segway?
The gentleman in the chair made it very clear that his life was very
enhanced with this high tech chair. I love to see technology like this. It
fills a genuine need and really helps people. Wouldn't it be nice if more
technology did that?
On Aug 2, 3:30=A0am, "Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote:
> I'm looking for tips on cutting half laps with a dado blade on my table s=
aw.
> The saw lives in a friend's garage and I haven't installed the rails and
> fence because I don't need them for the outdoor projects I've building.
>
> My problem is sneaking up on the cut lines for these half laps since I ca=
n't
> see them because they're turned down when doing the cutting. Careful as I=
am
> sneaking up on the turned down cut lines, occasionally, I've cut too much
> off which is a pain. Anybody got any tips for cutting these without going=
to
> the effort of installing the rails and fence to use with a start off
> reference block against the fence?
Screw on a scrap length of wood to your mitre gauge, one that goes
beyond the blade. Lift the blade higher than the wood and cut it off.
You now have a reference for your cut lines at the exact position the
blade is. Bring the blade down to the height you want for the half
laps, line up your mark with the wood attached to the mitre gauge &
Bob's your uncle.
HTH
Luigi
On Aug 3, 5:54=A0pm, "Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "dpb" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > Is there any chance you could eventually get a platform surrounding the
> > saw that could support the wheelchair for better access?
>
> Eventually, I plan on buying a General 650 lowered version tablesaw. They
> build a line of five pieces of big iron that have been lowered for
> wheelchair, sitting use or someone of lower stature. And the fact that
> they're not charging a cent over the cost of the regular version makes th=
em
> a class act in my books.
>
> > For the immediate problem--How about taking one that is at the proper
> > distance now and use it w/ the blade stopped to set the distance for th=
e
> > stop block clamped to the table?
>
> Not a problem anymore. The Kreg mitre I'm going to buy will let me cut
> safely.
>
> > Alternatively, how about making the pieces a tad long, cut the tenon
> > approximately (but a little long) then trim the end for the final lengt=
h?
>
> I'm putting tenons on both ends of single pieces. I can screw up one end =
and
> then adjust for length, but the opposite end would need to be exact to th=
e
> line without any initial error.
You won't go wrong with General. I am really impressed how they're
handling their Gorilla CNC manufacturing. Great bunch of people.
"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> Unfortunately it's no longer in production and support ends in
> 2013--supposedly only 400 of them were sold at a cost of $26K a piece and
> Medicare/Medicaid (and presumably private insurance as well) wouldn't pay
> for them.
http://disabilities.suite101.com/article.cfm/the_end_of_the_ibot
>
> The rights have reverted to the inventor so maybe he can interest some
other
> outfit that can get the cost down.
It's like any other piece of machinery on the market where competition and
demand are what brings a price down. That fact that approximately 10% of the
population have a mobility problem and even fewer would consider buying such
a device means it's unlikely the price would ever decrease under current or
previous market conditions.
That's why even a basic wheelchair capable of travelling around outside a
hospital setting retails for $3000 and climbs from there. Medicare (Canadian
in this case) with the recommendation of a doctor and/or physiotherapist
will pay approximately 80%, but the money has to come from somewhere.
It's ironic since three similar wheelchairs sell for the equivalent of a
small car, yet the engineering in a car easily outstrips that of three
wheelchairs. However, the demand for cars also easily outstrips the demand
for wheelchairs, so they just don't sell for the same price ratio.
On Aug 2, 6:30=A0am, "Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote:
> I'm looking for tips on cutting half laps with a dado blade on my table s=
aw.
> The saw lives in a friend's garage and I haven't installed the rails and
> fence because I don't need them for the outdoor projects I've building.
>
> My problem is sneaking up on the cut lines for these half laps since I ca=
n't
> see them because they're turned down when doing the cutting. Careful as I=
am
> sneaking up on the turned down cut lines, occasionally, I've cut too much
> off which is a pain. Anybody got any tips for cutting these without going=
to
> the effort of installing the rails and fence to use with a start off
> reference block against the fence?
>
> Thanks
As mentioned by others, some sort of 1/2 sled that rides in the mitre-
slot. Could be purpose-built for that project if quantities
justify..or make it versatile enough for all your lap-joint needs. I
wish I knew more about what your requirements are... in terms of a
more long-term utility.
"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> wish I knew more about what your requirements are... in terms of a
> more long-term utility.
You can probably guess most of my requirements and as I'm sure you know, the
bottom line with me and woodworking is all centred around control ~ another
hand on the particular tool I'm using since if mine are often occupied, I
can't move around much. That difficulty is a frequent problem in my world
and the problem with the half lap cuts is just one of many similar ones. I'm
going to Lee Valley tomorrow and I'll probably pick up the Kreg mitre jig
after a little hands on examination. It's something I should have done a
long time ago, but I kept putting it off.
The saw is a contractor's type table saw sold to my friend about ten years
ago and it lives in his garage. So, it gets used on a non regular basis as I
refuse to take advantage of his good will. I build something for myself and
then I attempt to talk him into letting me build or help him to build
something for himself. When the time comes that I can rent my own workshop
somewhere, then I'll upgrade to a cabinet saw and maybe a few other pieces
of big iron. Until then, I'll have to be mostly satisfied with what I've got
because I just don't have the space to store it all.
"dpb" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> Is there any chance you could eventually get a platform surrounding the
> saw that could support the wheelchair for better access?
Eventually, I plan on buying a General 650 lowered version tablesaw. They
build a line of five pieces of big iron that have been lowered for
wheelchair, sitting use or someone of lower stature. And the fact that
they're not charging a cent over the cost of the regular version makes them
a class act in my books.
> For the immediate problem--How about taking one that is at the proper
> distance now and use it w/ the blade stopped to set the distance for the
> stop block clamped to the table?
Not a problem anymore. The Kreg mitre I'm going to buy will let me cut
safely.
> Alternatively, how about making the pieces a tad long, cut the tenon
> approximately (but a little long) then trim the end for the final length?
I'm putting tenons on both ends of single pieces. I can screw up one end and
then adjust for length, but the opposite end would need to be exact to the
line without any initial error.
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> I have been using the "Dubby" for about 10 years and am very happy with
it.
The "Dubby" type of attachment I'll consider when the time comes to upgrade
from a contractor's saw to a cabinet saw. Along the same lines the Exalibur
and Jessem add-ons are interesting. ~ Stuff for future consideration.
> I also have a Kreg miter gauge with stop that I use mostly for squaring
I'm going to go to Lee Valley and have a look at a Kreg and Accu-mitre.
Considering that the Accu-mitre is more than twice the cost of the Kreg,
it's unlikely I'll buy it, but I'll examine both and see how I like them.
On 8/2/2009 4:59 AM Upscale spake thus:
> "Morris Dovey" <[email protected]> wrote in message [...]
>
>> Perhaps it would be easier if you put the marks on the /edge/ (that goes
>> into the sawblade first)...
>
> I *do* put reference marks on the sides and bottom of the wood.
> Problem is sitting in the wheelchair, I can't feed the wood and lean
> over it at the same time to see where the leading edge is going into
> the blade. However, it did occur to me to cut do the cut from the
> back of the table saw, pulling the wood towards me into the blade,
> something I'd be able to see from the get go.
Maybe a stupid idea, but is there any chance you could rig up a mirror
so you can see in front of the piece being cut?
--
Found--the gene that causes belief in genetic determinism
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> Attach an adjustable stop to your miter gauge and sneak up on the cut.
As you (and Kevin have noted) an adjustable stop would solve the problem.
All along I've been using the stock mitre that came with the saw over thirty
years ago.
I've made up my mind to buy a decent mitre gauge with a larger fence and
adjustable stops built into it. I was thinking I could use one even before
this problem started. I've seen a number of reviews on them so I'll go
through them and select something suitable.
"dpb" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> The mirror would be good, measurement and a stop block clamped to the
> table would be good, most suggestions would be good--climb cutting is
> not a good suggestion...
Yup, the climb cutting did occur to me. If I attempted it, I'd be using the
magnetic featherboard set that I've got.
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=1&p=55999&cat=1,42363,42356
So far, I've been hogging out 3/8" of cedar which isn't the most difficult
wood to cut, but I am mindful of your concerns and you've made some valid
points. I will be taking a mirror with me and I'll try that first and then
the suggestion to clamp down a temporary wooden fence. If either lets me
eyeball the cuts easily enough, I won't even consider the backwards cutting.
I've got a total of six more tenons to cut, so there's not a great deal of
work left.
"Larry C" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> I think I did a terrible job of explaining but I hope you get the idea.
I do understand what you explained. I was negligent in my original
explanation by not explaining that I use a wheelchair and can't easily feed
the wood and lean over it and at the same time watch the leading edge of the
wood feed into the blade. Perhaps the solution is what I suggested to Morris
which is an unconventional solution, but not in the realm of impossible.
On Aug 3, 11:40=A0pm, "Lee Michaels" <leemichaels*[email protected]>
wrote:
> "Robatoy" =A0wrote
>
> Dean Kamen can help out too.
>
> http://www.dekaresearch.com/ibot.shtml
>
> That guy is farking brilliant!!
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
> I saw one of these at the local mall. It was so intriguing, I went over a=
nd
> talked to the guy. He was sitting in the chair when it was in the elevate=
d
> position. I asked him about that. He said he goes into that position when=
he
> wants to look down the mall hall. =A0I never thought about that, never ha=
ve
> been in a wheel chair.
>
> Anyway, it has that balance feature in it that allows the person in the
> chair to do all these kinds of things. I asked if the balance features wa=
s
> similar to the segway. He said that it was not quite that sophisticated.
> But similar technology. =A0Maybe early segway?
>
> The gentleman in the chair made it very clear that his life was very
> enhanced with this high tech chair. =A0I love to see technology like this=
. It
> fills a genuine need and really helps people. Wouldn't it be nice if more
> technology did that?
Segway is also a Dean Kamen product.
"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> Or perhaps one of these?
> http://www.thestandingcompany.com/
>
> I had no idea they existed until very recently, when I saw someone using
one.
They start at about $4000 for a basic model and go up from there.
"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >They start at about $4000 for a basic model and go up from there.
>
> Yeeee-owwwwtch!!! And I'll bet that's not covered by health insurance,
either,
> because they'll tell you "a standard chair is good enough". Right?
I do know of a few instances where they've been covered by health insurance
if it's essential for one's job and their livelihood. For the average
person, you're correct in that they are not covered by health insurance.
Aside from that, they're a mechanical nightmare and keeping them in working
order mechanical wise and part wise can be a waking nightmare onto itself.
One of them would be a nice diversion from a convenience point of view, but
most things out of reach from someone sitting in a wheelchair can usually
obtained with the use of a wide variety of reaching and pick up tools.
"David Nebenzahl" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> Maybe a stupid idea, but is there any chance you could rig up a mirror
> so you can see in front of the piece being cut?
That was suggested by one person who emailed me privately. I'm going to try
(or at least examine) the method of pulling the wood from the back left hand
corner of the table saw into the blade where I can watch it hit the
reference points. If I feel that's too unsafe or I'm not very comfortable
with it, then it shouldn't be too much problem for me to jury rig a mirror
that I can use to see the cut.
Coincidentally, I've been looking for an excuse to buy a better mitre than
the stock one that came with the saw over thirty-five years ago. Ideally, I
feel one *should* be able to line up a cut properly and cut wood without the
need to see it feed. I want to buy a new mitre for the saw and this will be
my reason to do so.
It will be a few days before I get over there to use the table saw. My worry
right now when thinking about it is that it's a contractor type table saw
with the belt and motor hanging off the back, things I really don't want to
be near when the saw is running. I'll see how it goes.
"Morris Dovey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> Perhaps it would be easier if you put the marks on the /edge/ (that goes
> into the sawblade first)...
I *do* put reference marks on the sides and bottom of the wood. Problem is
sitting in the wheelchair, I can't feed the wood and lean over it at the
same time to see where the leading edge is going into the blade. However, it
did occur to me to cut do the cut from the back of the table saw, pulling
the wood towards me into the blade, something I'd be able to see from the
get go.
I can't envision a specific safety issue doing it that way, but then that's
exactly when those safety issues jump up and bite you in the ass.
"Leon" wrote:
> Attach an adjustable stop to your miter gauge and sneak up on the
> cut.
That was standard issue on a couple of old T/S I had.
The miter gauge had a couple of holes thuru which you could insert a
3/8" dia. rod (I would use a 36" length), then tighten in place with
thumb screws.
A 2nd rod, about 12" long, had a hook and could be clamped beside the
long rod.
Make a story board as a means of setting the length.
If you screw up the setting, make a new story board.
"Upscale" wrote>
> As you (and Kevin have noted) an adjustable stop would solve the
> problem.
> All along I've been using the stock mitre that came with the saw
> over thirty
> years ago.
>
> I've made up my mind to buy a decent mitre gauge with a larger fence
> and
> adjustable stops built into it.
A couple of good sleds as has been suggested (T/S blade and dado)
along with a piece of plywood screwed to a standard miter gauge face
is a lot less expensive and IMHO, a whole lot more useful.
Lew
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
> I'm looking for tips on cutting half laps with a dado blade on my table saw.
> The saw lives in a friend's garage and I haven't installed the rails and
> fence because I don't need them for the outdoor projects I've building.
>
> My problem is sneaking up on the cut lines for these half laps since I can't
> see them because they're turned down when doing the cutting. Careful as I am
> sneaking up on the turned down cut lines, occasionally, I've cut too much
> off which is a pain. Anybody got any tips for cutting these without going to
> the effort of installing the rails and fence to use with a start off
> reference block against the fence?
>
> Thanks
Well I do those on the radial arm saw, but all the same ... when I can't
see exactly where I might be going because the original mark is facing
away from me, I get my 6" engineer's square out and a marking knife and
I scribe all 'round so I CAN see where the blade enters the wood
relative to the mark - then adjust as necessary.
Knife is much more accurate than pen, especially for this job, somewhat
prevents splintering and I find my ageing eyes can pick a knife mark out
more easily than the Rotring.
That little square is one of the tools I'd most hate to give up.
-P.
"Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I'm looking for tips on cutting half laps with a dado blade on my table
> saw.
> The saw lives in a friend's garage and I haven't installed the rails and
> fence because I don't need them for the outdoor projects I've building.
>
> My problem is sneaking up on the cut lines for these half laps since I
> can't
> see them because they're turned down when doing the cutting. Careful as I
> am
> sneaking up on the turned down cut lines, occasionally, I've cut too much
> off which is a pain. Anybody got any tips for cutting these without going
> to
> the effort of installing the rails and fence to use with a start off
> reference block against the fence?
>
> Thanks
>
>
Attach an adjustable stop to your miter gauge and sneak up on the cut.
Upscale wrote:
> I'm looking for tips on cutting half laps with a dado blade on my
> table saw. The saw lives in a friend's garage and I haven't installed
> the rails and fence because I don't need them for the outdoor
> projects I've building.
>
> My problem is sneaking up on the cut lines for these half laps since
> I can't see them because they're turned down when doing the cutting.
> Careful as I am sneaking up on the turned down cut lines,
> occasionally, I've cut too much off which is a pain. Anybody got any
> tips for cutting these without going to the effort of installing the
> rails and fence to use with a start off reference block against the
> fence?
>
> Thanks
Step #1 is to mark your board on the leading edge.
Step #2 is to have some way of aligning the edge mark with the blade edge.
In my case, I used a knife to scribe lines from each side of the blade onto
the cast iron table and throat plate, sprayed paint onto same, wiped off
excess paint leaving it in the scribed lines. I still prefer to use my
radial saw for cutting out half laps.
--
dadiOH
____________________________
dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
"Doug Miller" <[email protected]>
> You don't say what you use for safety equipment, but if your eye
protection
> consists only of goggles or safety glasses, please consider using a face
> shield instead.
I have and use a full face shield every time as well as a heavy denim smock
that covers my upper body completely. There's just too many mini projectile
slivers and sawdust coming off the saw blade for me to consider not using a
face shield. I'm hoping to pick up the Kreg Mitre (or something similar)
from Lee Valley tomorrow and with that I should be able to cut to any line,
sight unseen.
> If you feel that you simply *must* line up a pencil mark on the back side
of
> the blade, do it with the saw turned *off*.
That's something I didn't consider and might work well. Thanks.
"Puckdropper" <puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> I'm looking for tips on cutting half laps with a dado blade on my
>> table saw. The saw lives in a friend's garage and I haven't installed
>> the rails and fence because I don't need them for the outdoor projects
>> I've building.
>>
>> My problem is sneaking up on the cut lines for these half laps since I
>> can't see them because they're turned down when doing the cutting.
>> Careful as I am sneaking up on the turned down cut lines,
>> occasionally, I've cut too much off which is a pain. Anybody got any
>> tips for cutting these without going to the effort of installing the
>> rails and fence to use with a start off reference block against the
>> fence?
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>>
>
> I sometimes make one cut at the line (where I want it) and then cut the
> rest out. You could even cut the line with a hand saw or router. The
> advantage to this is you gain a kerf's width of fudge room.
>
> Another thing I did was mark the outsides of the blade on the little
> orange insert my saw has for doing this kind of stuff. That way, I've
> got a reference to work with before the saw blade enters the work. It's
> not always accurate with a wabble dado, though.
>
> Puckdropper
> --
> "The potential difference between the top and bottom of a tree is the
> reason why all trees have to be grounded..." -- Bored Borg on
> rec.woodworking
>
> To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm
How about if you use the method of making a first cut at your line with a
saw of choice. That way you would have a reference point on the back of the
board. Then take the method of extending a line from the edge of the blade
to the front of the table saw. That way you would have the fudge factor of
a saw blade and a reference point at the back of the stock to line up to the
edge of the blade. Both would at the back of the stock.
Larry C
On Aug 3, 6:42=A0pm, "Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > Or perhaps one of these?
> >http://www.thestandingcompany.com/
>
> > I had no idea they existed until very recently, when I saw someone usin=
g
>
> one.
>
> They start at about $4000 for a basic model and go up from there.
Dean Kamen can help out too.
http://www.dekaresearch.com/ibot.shtml
That guy is farking brilliant!!
Upscale wrote:
> My problem is sneaking up on the cut lines for these half laps since I can't
> see them because they're turned down when doing the cutting.
Perhaps it would be easier if you put the marks on the /edge/ (that goes
into the sawblade first)...
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/
Upscale wrote:
> "Morris Dovey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> Perhaps it would be easier if you put the marks on the /edge/ (that goes
>> into the sawblade first)...
>
> I *do* put reference marks on the sides and bottom of the wood. Problem is
> sitting in the wheelchair, I can't feed the wood and lean over it at the
> same time to see where the leading edge is going into the blade. However, it
> did occur to me to cut do the cut from the back of the table saw, pulling
> the wood towards me into the blade, something I'd be able to see from the
> get go.
I forgot that you worked from a wheelchair - sorry.
Sometimes I do this kind of cutting with a sled on my TS. The sled has
only ever been used with one blade, and so the slot in the bottom and
rear fence are "zero clearance". I can envision pulling the sled back
until it tips - then fitting it with stop blocks or clamping the work in
place using the zero-clearance slot as a reference...
> I can't envision a specific safety issue doing it that way, but then that's
> exactly when those safety issues jump up and bite you in the ass.
I think there's too much room in that picture for the blade to grab the
workpiece and throw it in your face.
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/
"Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Larry C" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> I think I did a terrible job of explaining but I hope you get the idea.
>
> I do understand what you explained. I was negligent in my original
> explanation by not explaining that I use a wheelchair and can't easily
> feed
> the wood and lean over it and at the same time watch the leading edge of
> the
> wood feed into the blade. Perhaps the solution is what I suggested to
> Morris
> which is an unconventional solution, but not in the realm of impossible.
I think you're much better off just installing the fence and using the
fence. I don't think I'm being a Safety Nazi in suggesting this. The usual
safety-nazi stuff just comes from rote following the "rules" crap. *This*
evokes a response somewhat more akin to "ARE YOU F*CKING KIDDING ME? Just
shove your arm into the blade and be done with it." Not your usual SN
response.
Give some serious thought to using a rabbet bit and featherboard on the
router table. There's so much less setup and so much less to get wrong.
"MikeWhy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> "Larry C" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> I think I did a terrible job of explaining but I hope you get the idea.
>>
>> I do understand what you explained. I was negligent in my original
>> explanation by not explaining that I use a wheelchair and can't easily
>> feed
>> the wood and lean over it and at the same time watch the leading edge of
>> the
>> wood feed into the blade. Perhaps the solution is what I suggested to
>> Morris
>> which is an unconventional solution, but not in the realm of impossible.
>
> I think you're much better off just installing the fence and using the
> fence. I don't think I'm being a Safety Nazi in suggesting this. The usual
> safety-nazi stuff just comes from rote following the "rules" crap. *This*
> evokes a response somewhat more akin to "ARE YOU F*CKING KIDDING ME? Just
> shove your arm into the blade and be done with it." Not your usual SN
> response.
>
> Give some serious thought to using a rabbet bit and featherboard on the
> router table. There's so much less setup and so much less to get wrong.
Hmmm. Not in regards the RAS. That's perfectly reasonable. Just in general,
the whole dancing around not having a fence ...
Upscale wrote:
> "David Nebenzahl" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> Maybe a stupid idea, but is there any chance you could rig up a mirror
>> so you can see in front of the piece being cut?
>
> That was suggested by one person who emailed me privately. I'm going to try
> (or at least examine) the method of pulling the wood from the back left hand
> corner of the table saw into the blade where I can watch it hit the
> reference points. If I feel that's too unsafe or I'm not very comfortable
> with it, then it shouldn't be too much problem for me to jury rig a mirror
> that I can use to see the cut.
...
The upclimb cut into the blade is too dangerous to even contemplate
standing w/ two hands and body for bracing/control what more w/ the work
essentially at eye level and hands/arms above/level w/ shoulders or
thereabouts. It's just _NOT_ a good idea at all as it has far too much
potential to grab and pull (if you've ever used a RAS you'll have an
idea; that you'd contemplate it probably indicates you haven't, at least
recently).
The mirror would be good, measurement and a stop block clamped to the
table would be good, most suggestions would be good--climb cutting is
not a good suggestion...
--
In article <[email protected]>, "MikeWhy" <[email protected]> wrote:
>"Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>>
>> "Larry C" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> I think I did a terrible job of explaining but I hope you get the idea.
>>
>> I do understand what you explained. I was negligent in my original
>> explanation by not explaining that I use a wheelchair and can't easily feed
>> the wood and lean over it and at the same time watch the leading edge of the
>> wood feed into the blade. Perhaps the solution is what I suggested to Morris
>> which is an unconventional solution, but not in the realm of impossible.
>
>I think you're much better off just installing the fence and using the
>fence. I don't think I'm being a Safety Nazi in suggesting this. The usual
>safety-nazi stuff just comes from rote following the "rules" crap. *This*
>evokes a response somewhat more akin to "ARE YOU F*CKING KIDDING ME? Just
>shove your arm into the blade and be done with it." Not your usual SN
>response.
I agree with Mike -- that is NOT even CLOSE to safe. I might not have put it
quite the way he did... but I entirely agree. Climb-cutting like you propose
is just *begging* to get the workpiece, and the miter gauge along with it,
thrown back into your teeth.
Set the fence or a guide of some some sort, or use a sled or a jig. Get your
measurements and setup correct, and it truly won't matter that you can't see
the leading edge of the wood going into the blade. Make a few test cuts on
scrap first, if you need to, to convince yourself. You really don't need to
watch. Honest.
If you feel that you simply *must* line up a pencil mark on the back side of
the blade, do it with the saw turned *off*. Then clamp the workpiece to the
miter gauge, lower the blade below the table, pull the gauge to the front of
the saw, raise the blade, and make the cut normally -- moving the wood away
from you.
You don't say what you use for safety equipment, but if your eye protection
consists only of goggles or safety glasses, please consider using a face
shield instead. I haven't used goggles for at least ten years -- the face
shield is so much more convenient, and protects so much more. Your eyes are
not the only part of your face that need protection; imagine what it would
feel like to take a kickback in the nose or teeth, or the larynx, where a
high-speed impact could be fatal. Operating the saw from a seated position
puts your face and throat that much more in the "line of fire" and makes a
face shield that much more important.
Upscale wrote:
> "dpb" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> The mirror would be good, measurement and a stop block clamped to the
>> table would be good, most suggestions would be good--climb cutting is
>> not a good suggestion...
>
> Yup, the climb cutting did occur to me. If I attempted it, I'd be using the
> magnetic featherboard set that I've got.
> http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=1&p=55999&cat=1,42363,42356
>
> So far, I've been hogging out 3/8" of cedar which isn't the most difficult
> wood to cut, but I am mindful of your concerns and you've made some valid
> points. I will be taking a mirror with me and I'll try that first and then
> the suggestion to clamp down a temporary wooden fence. If either lets me
> eyeball the cuts easily enough, I won't even consider the backwards cutting.
> I've got a total of six more tenons to cut, so there's not a great deal of
> work left.
I'm not envisioning how the featherboards are going to help in this case.
Whatever, be careful _first_....agreed, the cedar and a 3/8" cut isn't
terribly much, but all it takes is once for the results of the blade
grabbing your work piece to get ugly. I'm particularly concerned given
the geometry in which you have to approach the saw of being low. I'm
sure you've got a lot of experience in using it that way and are able;
but this operation spooks me to hear it.
Is there any chance you could eventually get a platform surrounding the
saw that could support the wheelchair for better access? That would
seem to potentially aid if not fully resolve a lot of problems for a
long time in the future...
For the immediate problem--How about taking one that is at the proper
distance now and use it w/ the blade stopped to set the distance for the
stop block clamped to the table?
Alternatively, how about making the pieces a tad long, cut the tenon
approximately (but a little long) then trim the end for the final length?
--
In article <[email protected]>, dpb <[email protected]> wrote:
>Is there any chance you could eventually get a platform surrounding the
>saw that could support the wheelchair for better access? That would
>seem to potentially aid if not fully resolve a lot of problems for a
>long time in the future...
Or perhaps one of these?
http://www.thestandingcompany.com/
I had no idea they existed until very recently, when I saw someone using one.
Upscale wrote:
> "David Nebenzahl" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> Maybe a stupid idea, but is there any chance you could rig up a mirror
>> so you can see in front of the piece being cut?
>
> That was suggested by one person who emailed me privately. I'm going to try
> (or at least examine) the method of pulling the wood from the back left hand
> corner of the table saw into the blade where I can watch it hit the
> reference points. If I feel that's too unsafe or I'm not very comfortable
> with it, then it shouldn't be too much problem for me to jury rig a mirror
> that I can use to see the cut.
>
> Coincidentally, I've been looking for an excuse to buy a better mitre than
> the stock one that came with the saw over thirty-five years ago. Ideally, I
> feel one *should* be able to line up a cut properly and cut wood without the
> need to see it feed. I want to buy a new mitre for the saw and this will be
> my reason to do so.
>
> It will be a few days before I get over there to use the table saw. My worry
> right now when thinking about it is that it's a contractor type table saw
> with the belt and motor hanging off the back, things I really don't want to
> be near when the saw is running. I'll see how it goes.
>
>
>
Upscale, at one time you pointed out to us that General was making a saw
lower than most, specifically for people in chairs. Did you get one of
those?
If not, is there any safe way that you can elevate yourself and/or chair
to get over the table and blade so that you can see better when you're
lining up?
Tanus
Upscale wrote:
> "Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> wish I knew more about what your requirements are... in terms of a
>> more long-term utility.
>
> You can probably guess most of my requirements and as I'm sure you know, the
> bottom line with me and woodworking is all centred around control ~ another
> hand on the particular tool I'm using since if mine are often occupied, I
> can't move around much. That difficulty is a frequent problem in my world
> and the problem with the half lap cuts is just one of many similar ones. I'm
> going to Lee Valley tomorrow and I'll probably pick up the Kreg mitre jig
> after a little hands on examination. It's something I should have done a
> long time ago, but I kept putting it off.
>
> The saw is a contractor's type table saw sold to my friend about ten years
> ago and it lives in his garage. So, it gets used on a non regular basis as I
> refuse to take advantage of his good will. I build something for myself and
> then I attempt to talk him into letting me build or help him to build
> something for himself. When the time comes that I can rent my own workshop
> somewhere, then I'll upgrade to a cabinet saw and maybe a few other pieces
> of big iron. Until then, I'll have to be mostly satisfied with what I've got
> because I just don't have the space to store it all.
>
>
I seem to have asked that last question too early. This answers it.
Tanus
Upscale wrote:
> "dpb" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> Is there any chance you could eventually get a platform surrounding the
>> saw that could support the wheelchair for better access?
>
> Eventually, I plan on buying a General 650 lowered version tablesaw. They
> build a line of five pieces of big iron that have been lowered for
> wheelchair, sitting use or someone of lower stature. And the fact that
> they're not charging a cent over the cost of the regular version makes them
> a class act in my books.
Well how kewl is that!!!??? :) I wasn't aware of that but super...
>> For the immediate problem--How about taking one that is at the proper
>> distance now and use it w/ the blade stopped to set the distance for the
>> stop block clamped to the table?
>
> Not a problem anymore. The Kreg mitre I'm going to buy will let me cut
> safely.
OK, anything so I don't have to fret any longer--I really didn't like
the other idea if you couldn't tell.... :)
--
In article <[email protected]>, "Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> Or perhaps one of these?
>> http://www.thestandingcompany.com/
>>
>> I had no idea they existed until very recently, when I saw someone using
>one.
>
>They start at about $4000 for a basic model and go up from there.
Yeeee-owwwwtch!!! And I'll bet that's not covered by health insurance, either,
because they'll tell you "a standard chair is good enough". Right?
Lee Michaels wrote:
> "Robatoy" wrote
>
> Dean Kamen can help out too.
>
> http://www.dekaresearch.com/ibot.shtml
>
> That guy is farking brilliant!!
> ===================
>
> I saw one of these at the local mall. It was so intriguing, I went
> over and talked to the guy. He was sitting in the chair when it was
> in the elevated position. I asked him about that. He said he goes
> into that position when he wants to look down the mall hall. I never
> thought about that, never have been in a wheel chair.
>
> Anyway, it has that balance feature in it that allows the person in
> the chair to do all these kinds of things. I asked if the balance
> features was similar to the segway. He said that it was not quite
> that sophisticated. But similar technology. Maybe early segway?
>
> The gentleman in the chair made it very clear that his life was very
> enhanced with this high tech chair. I love to see technology like
> this. It fills a genuine need and really helps people. Wouldn't it be
> nice if more technology did that?
Unfortunately it's no longer in production and support ends in
2013--supposedly only 400 of them were sold at a cost of $26K a piece and
Medicare/Medicaid (and presumably private insurance as well) wouldn't pay
for them. http://disabilities.suite101.com/article.cfm/the_end_of_the_ibot
The rights have reverted to the inventor so maybe he can interest some other
outfit that can get the cost down.
Upscale wrote:
...
> It's like any other piece of machinery on the market where competition and
> demand are what brings a price down. That fact that approximately 10% of the
> population have a mobility problem and even fewer would consider buying such
> a device means it's unlikely the price would ever decrease under current or
> previous market conditions.
>
> That's why even a basic wheelchair capable of travelling around outside a
> hospital setting retails for $3000 and climbs from there. Medicare (Canadian
> in this case) with the recommendation of a doctor and/or physiotherapist
> will pay approximately 80%, but the money has to come from somewhere.
...
There's the "why" primarily -- the cost is put off to the third party
(and a government entity to boot) so there's absolutely no incentive to
lower price as it's a non-competitive market.
--
How about just clamp a board down in the place where you would put the fence?
Of course you will ahve to ensure that it is parallel to the blade.
--
There is always an easy solution to every human problem -- neat,
plausible, and wrong." (H L Mencken)
Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar. org
Doug Brown wrote:
> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> The rights have reverted to the inventor so maybe he can interest
>> some other
>> outfit that can get the cost down.
>>
>
> I wonder if our friend Rob from Lee Valley would be at all interested
> (considering their not so recent brach out into the medical services
> side of things?)>
Interesting thought.
What's really needed though is for someone to come up with a high volume
market for the technology that allows the wheelchairs to be made
inexpensively as a sideline.
"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Doug Brown wrote:
>> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> The rights have reverted to the inventor so maybe he can interest
>>> some other
>>> outfit that can get the cost down.
>>>
>>
>> I wonder if our friend Rob from Lee Valley would be at all interested
>> (considering their not so recent brach out into the medical services
>> side of things?)>
>
> Interesting thought.
>
> What's really needed though is for someone to come up with a high volume
> market for the technology that allows the wheelchairs to be made
> inexpensively as a sideline.
Ooh. An extreme off-road Segway? Segways cost considerably less and still
have a hard time selling despite the technology glitz.
"Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> Attach an adjustable stop to your miter gauge and sneak up on the cut.
>
> As you (and Kevin have noted) an adjustable stop would solve the problem.
> All along I've been using the stock mitre that came with the saw over
> thirty
> years ago.
>
> I've made up my mind to buy a decent mitre gauge with a larger fence and
> adjustable stops built into it. I was thinking I could use one even before
> this problem started. I've seen a number of reviews on them so I'll go
> through them and select something suitable.
I have been using the "Dubby" for about 10 years and am very happy with it.
Actually I have both the right and left side Dubby. One Dubby will cost you
about the same price as a better grade after market miter gauge.
I also have a Kreg miter gauge with stop that I use mostly for squaring
stock and cutting short pieces to length. The Dubby has a pretty large
capicity but is also easy to use for small pieces.
http://www.in-lineindustries.com/single_dubby.html
On Sun, 2 Aug 2009 06:30:53 -0400, "Upscale" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>I'm looking for tips on cutting half laps with a dado blade on my table saw.
>The saw lives in a friend's garage and I haven't installed the rails and
>fence because I don't need them for the outdoor projects I've building.
>
>My problem is sneaking up on the cut lines for these half laps since I can't
>see them because they're turned down when doing the cutting. Careful as I am
>sneaking up on the turned down cut lines, occasionally, I've cut too much
>off which is a pain. Anybody got any tips for cutting these without going to
>the effort of installing the rails and fence to use with a start off
>reference block against the fence?
I would say from your position in the wheelchair most of the usual
ways of getting a stop block reference are going to be a PITA. What
happens is you end up sneaking up on your final stop block position,
and as happened too many times to count just when you've got it almost
perfect and you're dialing in that last adjustment the bugger slides
or the clamp slips off and you have to start all over. And this is
when you can actually see what you're doing, much less trying to do it
from a seated position. This is where having the stop block attached
to a good fence that always locks down perfectly and has a measurement
scale to use as a reference becomes very handy. If you move the fence
too much you still know where it was supposed to be.
But failing that, you could just clamp a block of wood to the table
farther away from the final setting and use shims to get it less than
the final setting. Take out shims until you get where you need to be.
I'm assuming that the half lap is not in the middle of a long board
that extends beyond the table. The other way is to attach an extended
fence to the miter gage, but then you won't be able to see the stop
block so I think clamping to the table will work better.
In the future, if you don't already have one, I would definitely build
yourself a good sled with some hold down clamps so all you have to
worry about is pushing the sled through the cut. While you're at it
make two so you can use one for dado cuts.
-Kevin
Leon wrote:
> One thing that I do appreciate with the Kreg, it is 99% aluminum so it is
> light weight and easy to handle.
>
>
> Swingman has an Accu-miter and IIRC he is pretty pleased with his.
WoodHaven ... best value for the price, IMO. Nothing fancy, just
simple, solid and accurate.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)
"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> The rights have reverted to the inventor so maybe he can interest some
> other
> outfit that can get the cost down.
>
I wonder if our friend Rob from Lee Valley would be at all interested
(considering their not so recent brach out into the medical services side of
things?)>
On Sun, 02 Aug 2009 23:42:43 -0700, David Nebenzahl
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On 8/2/2009 4:59 AM Upscale spake thus:
>
>> "Morris Dovey" <[email protected]> wrote in message [...]
> >
>>> Perhaps it would be easier if you put the marks on the /edge/ (that goes
>>> into the sawblade first)...
>>
>> I *do* put reference marks on the sides and bottom of the wood.
>> Problem is sitting in the wheelchair, I can't feed the wood and lean
>> over it at the same time to see where the leading edge is going into
>> the blade. However, it did occur to me to cut do the cut from the
>> back of the table saw, pulling the wood towards me into the blade,
>> something I'd be able to see from the get go.
>
>Maybe a stupid idea, but is there any chance you could rig up a mirror
>so you can see in front of the piece being cut?
Not a bad idea. I use an inexpensive round mirror with the built-in
stand when handcut dovetails. It easily lets me see where I am
cutting on the other side. I have two "mirror tools" in my shop.
"Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> I have been using the "Dubby" for about 10 years and am very happy with
> it.
>
> The "Dubby" type of attachment I'll consider when the time comes to
> upgrade
> from a contractor's saw to a cabinet saw. Along the same lines the
> Exalibur
> and Jessem add-ons are interesting. ~ Stuff for future consideration.
>
>> I also have a Kreg miter gauge with stop that I use mostly for squaring
>
> I'm going to go to Lee Valley and have a look at a Kreg and Accu-mitre.
> Considering that the Accu-mitre is more than twice the cost of the Kreg,
> it's unlikely I'll buy it, but I'll examine both and see how I like them.
I bought my Kreg just as Kreg had bought the rights to manufacture the
gauge. Just to let you know, I considered 3 brands, Incra, Kreg, and the
Osborne.
The Osborne was the most disappointing as when adjusted to one of the 45
degree settings vs. the opposite setting the fence wobbled. The adjustment
support flexed "VERY" easily. I could see how inconsistent miters would be
common. I tried 3 of these jigs and they all had the problem.
The Incra jigs all IMHO took up too much real-estate behind the fence which
limited the width of the stock being cut.
The Kreg was not with out its problems however Kreg was very helpful in
resolving the problem, as opposed to Osborne. Basically the Kreg uses
indexing pins that either fit too tightly or too loosely. Kreg ended up
sending me a replacement that they pulled off the line and tested before
shipping. Osborne simply denied a problem.
One thing that I do appreciate with the Kreg, it is 99% aluminum so it is
light weight and easy to handle.
Swingman has an Accu-miter and IIRC he is pretty pleased with his.
"Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I'm looking for tips on cutting half laps with a dado blade on my table
> saw.
> The saw lives in a friend's garage and I haven't installed the rails and
> fence because I don't need them for the outdoor projects I've building.
>
> My problem is sneaking up on the cut lines for these half laps since I
> can't
> see them because they're turned down when doing the cutting. Careful as I
> am
> sneaking up on the turned down cut lines, occasionally, I've cut too much
> off which is a pain. Anybody got any tips for cutting these without going
> to
> the effort of installing the rails and fence to use with a start off
> reference block against the fence?
>
> Thanks
>
I'd clamp a straight board to the table top, parallel to the miter
slots/blade, to act as a fence. This to control the length of the lap as
would your regular fence. You could use an adjustable square with the head
in a miter slot and the end of the blade against the "fence" to position the
temporary fence.
John
"Peter Huebner" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] says...
>> I'm looking for tips on cutting half laps with a dado blade on my table
>> saw.
>> The saw lives in a friend's garage and I haven't installed the rails and
>> fence because I don't need them for the outdoor projects I've building.
>>
>> My problem is sneaking up on the cut lines for these half laps since I
>> can't
>> see them because they're turned down when doing the cutting. Careful as I
>> am
>> sneaking up on the turned down cut lines, occasionally, I've cut too much
>> off which is a pain. Anybody got any tips for cutting these without going
>> to
>> the effort of installing the rails and fence to use with a start off
>> reference block against the fence?
>>
>> Thanks
>
> Well I do those on the radial arm saw, but all the same ... when I can't
> see exactly where I might be going because the original mark is facing
> away from me, I get my 6" engineer's square out and a marking knife and
> I scribe all 'round so I CAN see where the blade enters the wood
> relative to the mark - then adjust as necessary.
>
> Knife is much more accurate than pen, especially for this job, somewhat
> prevents splintering and I find my ageing eyes can pick a knife mark out
> more easily than the Rotring.
>
> That little square is one of the tools I'd most hate to give up.
>
> -P.
I have also put down a couple of strips masking tape in front of the blade
on my table saw. Then I take a straight edge and place it along side the
saw blade and score a line with a knife. Then I peal away one side of the
tape and I now have a reference of where the side of the blade is. You
could also draw a pencil mark.
I think I did a terrible job of explaining but I hope you get the idea.
Larry C