Hi All,
Having a problem with Spar Varnish and dust motes or very small
bubbles. After multiple coats of varnish, I sanded smooth, and
applied a coat of just opened Marine Spar Varnish with a new brush. I
stirred the varnish in the original can, didn't shake! The wood was
wiped down with new cheese cloth dampened with mineral spirits to
remove any sanding dust.
This morning the finish was dry and there were minute small dust
mites, and very small bubbles. I noticed these bubbles or specks when
I applied the finish yesterday. There were there with just barely
brushing out the finish, and also when I made more very light passes
with the brush to try and smooth the finish.
I'm at a loss as to how to fix this, so any help will be greatly
appreciated!
On 4/5/2010 1:02 PM, rich wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> Having a problem with Spar Varnish and dust motes or very small
> bubbles. After multiple coats of varnish, I sanded smooth, and
> applied a coat of just opened Marine Spar Varnish with a new brush. I
> stirred the varnish in the original can, didn't shake! The wood was
> wiped down with new cheese cloth dampened with mineral spirits to
> remove any sanding dust.
>
> This morning the finish was dry and there were minute small dust
> mites, and very small bubbles. I noticed these bubbles or specks when
> I applied the finish yesterday. There were there with just barely
> brushing out the finish, and also when I made more very light passes
> with the brush to try and smooth the finish.
>
> I'm at a loss as to how to fix this, so any help will be greatly
> appreciated!
A _possibility_...
What is the temperature doing?
I've had that same thing happen when working on cold stuff that warms
up while drying
But not when the material is warm, and cooling while drying.
--
Richard Lamb
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~cavelamb/
On Apr 5, 12:36=A0pm, cavelamb <""cavelamb\"@ X earthlink.net"> wrote:
> On 4/5/2010 1:13 PM, rich wrote:
>
> > Temp has been steady between 60 and 70F, somewhat lower humidity.
> > BTW, these wood trim pieces go back on my boat when done, so they will
> > see sunlight and fresh water. =A0That's why the spar varnish, for
> > durability, and that deep gloss finish.
>
> WOOD temperature, Rich.
>
> Is the material warming (bad) or cooling (better)?
>
> --
>
> Richard Lambhttp://www.home.earthlink.net/~cavelamb/
I guess it would be cooling. The shop is 68f when I'm working, then
turned down to approx 60f overnight.
On Apr 5, 5:17 pm, "SonomaProducts.com" <[email protected]> wrote:
> > When furniture grows up, it dreams of being good enough to become boat
> > joinery.
>
> > Lew
>
> Oh yes... the pinnical of my sawdust making career will result in a
> copy of thishttp://www.classicboat.com/id-26triplecockpit1929.htm...
> someday
Sonoma - what a great goal to shoot for in skill mastery.
I was in Lake Tahoe a couple of years back after they had just
finished "Wooden Boat Week". They had a Chris Craft that was out of
the water and was in the process of being lovingly wiped down and
prepared for winter storage.
There are dozens of restored Chris Craft boats on the lake at that
time, but this one was the show stopper. They told me it is owned by
the Lake Tahoe Yacht club, and it is used every year for the Grand
Marshal to ride in for every event that requires a marshal.
The boat was varnished mahogany, and the finish looked like poured
glass. Every thing about that boat was no less than beautiful. The
appointments (and their condition!), the actual wood, the joinery (fit
and finish - incredible), and the overall condition of the boat was
breathtaking.
They told me it had been about 4+ years or so in professional
restoration, and that it had its own warehouse where they hang it up
out of the water during storage. I saw it when it was out of the
water but not hung up, so I was able to see everything. Sadly, in its
display area, I was not allowed closer than 24" to the boat, and no
touching.
They told me that was actually a good deal for me as the boat was off
limits to just about everyone as that was their flagship.
It was a *real* treat to see that kind of craftsmanship. As Lew
noted, there are a lot of wooden boats out there, but this one was the
stuff.
Robert
On Apr 5, 11:02=A0am, rich <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> =A0 =A0Having a problem with Spar Varnish and dust motes or very small
> bubbles. =A0After multiple coats of varnish, I sanded smooth, and
Well dust is just dust and the finish is actually a liitle bit charged
so it will attract dust from the air regardless.
Air bubbles are likely introduced by the brush. Thinning the material
can help so bubbles will be able to surface and pop before the finish
films over. Can also try soaking brush in spirits first to minimize
air in brush. Can try foam brushes. Can try thinner coats. It is just
a technique thing.
Can fix current situation with sand paper and elbow grease, then start
over.
On 4/5/2010 11:02 AM rich spake thus:
> Having a problem with Spar Varnish and dust motes or very small
> bubbles. After multiple coats of varnish, I sanded smooth, and
> applied a coat of just opened Marine Spar Varnish with a new brush. I
> stirred the varnish in the original can, didn't shake! The wood was
> wiped down with new cheese cloth dampened with mineral spirits to
> remove any sanding dust.
>
> This morning the finish was dry and there were minute small dust
> mites, and very small bubbles. I noticed these bubbles or specks when
> I applied the finish yesterday. There were there with just barely
> brushing out the finish, and also when I made more very light passes
> with the brush to try and smooth the finish.
>
> I'm at a loss as to how to fix this, so any help will be greatly
> appreciated!
So far as fixing it goes, dunno what you could do short of stripping off
the finish and starting from scratch. (Yuck!)
As others have implied, dust is just a fact of life. The only way to
*reduce* (not eliminate) it is meticulous prep and care in your
workspace. Tack cloths are your friend. Working in a clean place that's
been vacuumed free of dust helps. If you have to work outdoors, all bets
are off. You might just have to live with those dust specks. How bad are
they, anyhow? Might not look so bad once you get the pieces installed
where they go.
Regarding bubbles, it pays to go over the piece after you've applied
varnish and try to pop what bubbles you can see. A needle of some kind
works well here. Since the varnish takes a good deal of time to set and
will still be flowing, any bubbles you pop will end up invisible.
--
You were wrong, and I'm man enough to admit it.
- a Usenet "apology"
"rich" wrote:
I guess it would be cooling. The shop is 68f when I'm working, then
turned down to approx 60f overnight.
-----------------------------------------------
As cavelamb has suggested, wood temperature is probably the culprit.
Keep the heater running for 24 hours prior to application of finish
and at least 8 hours afterwards.
If that is a problem, wait for warmer weather.
Lew
"SonomaProducts.com" wrote:
Oh yes... the pinnical of my sawdust making career will result in a
copy of this http://www.classicboat.com/id-26triplecockpit1929.htm ...
someday
------------------------------------------
Understand there is quite a collection at Tahoe.
Otherwise, there is a real hotbed for restoration on L Huron near the
western inlet to the North Channel.
Starts getting nippy there along about mid Sept.
Lew
On 4/6/2010 6:20 AM dadiOH spake thus:
> rich wrote:
>
>> Temp has been steady between 60 and 70F, somewhat lower humidity.
>> BTW, these wood trim pieces go back on my boat when done, so they will
>> see sunlight and fresh water. That's why the spar varnish, for
>> durability, and that deep gloss finish.
>
> If you have a boat you really should research what "spar" varnish is and
> what to put it on. Answers, soft and spars. It is no more durable or
> glossy than non-spar varnish.
i disagree. It's *very* durable; that's why it's used. More resistant to
UV, too. Yes, it's softer, but that's a good thing, too; less likely to
crack from temperature changes (think elastomeric paints).
--
You were wrong, and I'm man enough to admit it.
- a Usenet "apology"
"David Nebenzahl" wrote:
> i disagree. It's *very* durable; that's why it's used. More
> resistant to UV, too. Yes, it's softer, but that's a good thing,
> too; less likely to crack from temperature changes (think
> elastomeric paints).
-----------------------------------------
Park your rear end on a piece of brightwork covered with spar varnish
after it has been in the sun for a while and it will be the last time
you do it.
Not only will the varnish job be screwed up, but also the shorts that
were covering your fanny.
Lew
Does that really work, Dan? I "installed" just exactly what you described
in my little shop-under-the-stairs 6 months ago (which probably is not a
'real' 6-months since I only play at woodworking from time to time) in hopes
that it might have done some good. But I still collect dust on all
surfaces. The fan blows into the large rest-of-the-basement so there's no
real "exhaust" worthy of the name. I was just this week feeling guilty
for wasting electrons when I read your post. I have to admit, though, that
I haven't done a quantitative before/after study.
John
On 4/5/2010 11:39 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
> "Matt" wrote:
>
>> Lew - I like that ... When furniture grows up, it dreams of being
>> good enough to become boat joinery
>>
>> So here is one for you - BOAT is an acronym for Bring Out Another
>> Thousand.
> -------------------------------
> You're dating yourself, these days it's more like $10K.<G>
>
> Lew
>
>
>
That's too big of a boat!
Here's mine...
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~capri26/
--
Richard Lamb
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~cavelamb/
On Apr 5, 2:49=A0pm, David Nebenzahl <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 4/5/2010 11:02 AM rich spake thus:
>
> > =A0 =A0Having a problem with Spar Varnish and dust motes or very small
> > bubbles. =A0After multiple coats of varnish, I sanded smooth, and
> > applied a coat of just opened Marine Spar Varnish with a new brush. =A0=
I
> > stirred the varnish in the original can, didn't shake! =A0The wood was
> > wiped down with new cheese cloth dampened with mineral spirits to
> > remove any sanding dust.
>
> > =A0 =A0This morning the finish was dry and there were minute small dust
> > mites, and very small bubbles. =A0I noticed these bubbles or specks whe=
n
> > I applied the finish yesterday. =A0There were there with just barely
> > brushing out the finish, and also when I made more very light passes
> > with the brush to try and smooth the finish.
>
> > =A0 =A0I'm at a loss as to how to fix this, so any help will be greatly
> > appreciated!
>
> So far as fixing it goes, dunno what you could do short of stripping off
> the finish and starting from scratch. (Yuck!)
>
> As others have implied, dust is just a fact of life. The only way to
> *reduce* (not eliminate) it is meticulous prep and care in your
> workspace. Tack cloths are your friend. Working in a clean place that's
> been vacuumed free of dust helps. If you have to work outdoors, all bets
> are off. You might just have to live with those dust specks. How bad are
> they, anyhow? Might not look so bad once you get the pieces installed
> where they go.
>
> Regarding bubbles, it pays to go over the piece after you've applied
> varnish and try to pop what bubbles you can see. A needle of some kind
> works well here. Since the varnish takes a good deal of time to set and
> will still be flowing, any bubbles you pop will end up invisible.
>
> --
> You were wrong, and I'm man enough to admit it.
>
> - a Usenet "apology"
I'll look at it again tomorrow. Since it's not house furniture, maybe
I can tolerate a lesser standard. I also have to learn when good is
good enough. Glad the whole boat is not varnished mahogany! We have
two of those on Flathead Lake, but I try and stay away, to keep my
drool from staining their decks.
I would thin the material to allow a bit more flow out. There
should be very little brushing. Apply and "tip off" with very
light strokes. Do not hurry. Thin coats with light sanding or
steel wool (depending on type of wood) between coats. A box fan
with a furnace filter on the intake side pointed away from the
project will catch a tremendous amount of dust if you don't have a
dust system.
--
______________________________
Keep the whole world singing . . . .
DanG (remove the sevens)
[email protected]
"rich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:07b71393-2614-430e-bd35-e9e6a9ec1000@v20g2000yqv.googlegroups.com...
> Hi All,
>
> Having a problem with Spar Varnish and dust motes or very
> small
> bubbles. After multiple coats of varnish, I sanded smooth, and
> applied a coat of just opened Marine Spar Varnish with a new
> brush. I
> stirred the varnish in the original can, didn't shake! The wood
> was
> wiped down with new cheese cloth dampened with mineral spirits
> to
> remove any sanding dust.
>
> This morning the finish was dry and there were minute small
> dust
> mites, and very small bubbles. I noticed these bubbles or
> specks when
> I applied the finish yesterday. There were there with just
> barely
> brushing out the finish, and also when I made more very light
> passes
> with the brush to try and smooth the finish.
>
> I'm at a loss as to how to fix this, so any help will be
> greatly
> appreciated!
John, I have 2 made up. I position them close to the area where
I'm sanding or spraying. The filters get dirty - I blow them out
with compressor and use again. There is a noticeable reduction of
the dust layer on flat surfaces.
Dust collectors and air cleaners are certainly better, but space
and dollars . . . . .
--
______________________________
Keep the whole world singing . . . .
DanG (remove the sevens)
[email protected]
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Does that really work, Dan? I "installed" just exactly what
> you described
> in my little shop-under-the-stairs 6 months ago (which probably
> is not a
> 'real' 6-months since I only play at woodworking from time to
> time) in hopes
> that it might have done some good. But I still collect dust on
> all
> surfaces. The fan blows into the large rest-of-the-basement so
> there's no
> real "exhaust" worthy of the name. I was just this week
> feeling guilty
> for wasting electrons when I read your post. I have to admit,
> though, that
> I haven't done a quantitative before/after study.
>
> John
Lew - I like that ... When furniture grows up, it dreams of being good
enough to become boat joinery
So here is one for you - BOAT is an acronym for Bring Out Another Thousand
Matt
"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "rich" wrote:
>
> I'll look at it again tomorrow. Since it's not house furniture, maybe
> I can tolerate a lesser standard.
> <snip>
> --------------------------------------
> Surely you jest sire.
>
> When furniture grows up, it dreams of being good enough to become boat
> joinery.
>
> Lew
>
>
>
On 4/5/2010 1:13 PM, rich wrote:
> Temp has been steady between 60 and 70F, somewhat lower humidity.
> BTW, these wood trim pieces go back on my boat when done, so they will
> see sunlight and fresh water. That's why the spar varnish, for
> durability, and that deep gloss finish.
WOOD temperature, Rich.
Is the material warming (bad) or cooling (better)?
--
Richard Lamb
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~cavelamb/
On Apr 5, 1:30=A0pm, "Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "rich" wrote:
>
> I'll look at it again tomorrow. =A0Since it's not house furniture, maybe
> I can tolerate a lesser standard.
> <snip>
> --------------------------------------
> Surely you jest sire.
>
> When furniture grows up, it dreams of being good enough to become boat
> joinery.
>
> Lew
Oh yes... the pinnical of my sawdust making career will result in a
copy of this http://www.classicboat.com/id-26triplecockpit1929.htm ...
someday
On Tue, 06 Apr 2010 10:32:35 -0700, David Nebenzahl
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On 4/6/2010 6:20 AM dadiOH spake thus:
>
>> rich wrote:
> >
>>> Temp has been steady between 60 and 70F, somewhat lower humidity.
>>> BTW, these wood trim pieces go back on my boat when done, so they will
>>> see sunlight and fresh water. That's why the spar varnish, for
>>> durability, and that deep gloss finish.
>>
>> If you have a boat you really should research what "spar" varnish is and
>> what to put it on. Answers, soft and spars. It is no more durable or
>> glossy than non-spar varnish.
>
>i disagree. It's *very* durable; that's why it's used. More resistant to
>UV, too. Yes, it's softer, but that's a good thing, too; less likely to
>crack from temperature changes (think elastomeric paints).
Spar varnish is soft, and especially useful for spars, which flex. If
you have items that will not be flexing, then there are better and
more durable choices, even on a boat. You should especially avoid
using it anywhere that abrasion might be a problem. You don't want
people walking on it.
There is nothing about spar varnish that makes it inherently more UV
resistant, unless it has more or better UV resistance added to it.
Read the label to determine if it has any UV additives at all. There
is nothing in particular about spar varnish itself that makes it more
UV resistant.
On Tue, 6 Apr 2010 17:13:48 -0700, the infamous "Lew Hodgett"
<[email protected]> scrawled the following:
>
>"rich" wrote:
>
>.
>> Hmmmmmmm... I'll try a thinned coat and see what happens. Maybe
>> then
>> the 0000 steel wool and paste wax as a final coat. Apply the wax
>> with
>> the steel wool.
>--------------------------------------
>Steel wool on a boat?
>
>Ye Gads.
[Rich, your new name is "Rusty". Do you understand why? ;) ]
--
In order that people may be happy in their work, these three things are
needed: They must be fit for it. They must not do too much of it. And
they must have a sense of success in it.
-- John Ruskin, Pre-Raphaelitism, 1850
Hmmmmmmm... I'll try a thinned coat and see what happens. Maybe then
the 0000 steel wool and paste wax as a final coat. Apply the wax with
the steel wool.
I think after that, the trim will go back on the boat. It's good
enough to impress my relatives and kids right now.
Thanks to all for the suggestions. As always, lots of good ideas
here!
On Tue, 06 Apr 2010 16:08:49 -0400, "J. Clarke"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On 4/6/2010 2:46 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
>> "David Nebenzahl" wrote:
>>
>>> i disagree. It's *very* durable; that's why it's used. More
>>> resistant to UV, too. Yes, it's softer, but that's a good thing,
>>> too; less likely to crack from temperature changes (think
>>> elastomeric paints).
>> -----------------------------------------
>> Park your rear end on a piece of brightwork covered with spar varnish
>> after it has been in the sun for a while and it will be the last time
>> you do it.
>>
>> Not only will the varnish job be screwed up, but also the shorts that
>> were covering your fanny.
>
>Yep, been there, done that, and I wonder how much use his 42 foot ketch
>actually saw that he hasn't.
>
>
I think you have "who said what" a bit jumbled.
On Mon, 5 Apr 2010 11:02:01 -0700 (PDT), rich <[email protected]>
wrote:
> This morning the finish was dry and there were minute small dust
>mites, and very small bubbles. I noticed these bubbles or specks when
>I applied the finish yesterday. There were there with just barely
>brushing out the finish, and also when I made more very light passes
>with the brush to try and smooth the finish.
>
> I'm at a loss as to how to fix this, so any help will be greatly
>appreciated!
I will let you in on the secret. It's impossible to apply a
varnish/poly with a brush and not end up with bubbles. It just amuses
the Cabal to tell stories about different brushes, speed of moving the
brush, angle of the brush etc to everyone that asks about this.
Many men gave their lives to obtain this information, pass it on to
someone who needs it.
-Kevin
On 4/6/2010 1:50 AM, cavelamb > wrote:
> On 4/5/2010 11:39 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
>> "Matt" wrote:
>>
>>> Lew - I like that ... When furniture grows up, it dreams of being
>>> good enough to become boat joinery
>>>
>>> So here is one for you - BOAT is an acronym for Bring Out Another
>>> Thousand.
>> -------------------------------
>> You're dating yourself, these days it's more like $10K.<G>
>>
>> Lew
>>
>>
>>
>
> That's too big of a boat!
>
> Here's mine...
Just you wait 'enry 'iggins, just you wait.
On 4/6/2010 2:46 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
> "David Nebenzahl" wrote:
>
>> i disagree. It's *very* durable; that's why it's used. More
>> resistant to UV, too. Yes, it's softer, but that's a good thing,
>> too; less likely to crack from temperature changes (think
>> elastomeric paints).
> -----------------------------------------
> Park your rear end on a piece of brightwork covered with spar varnish
> after it has been in the sun for a while and it will be the last time
> you do it.
>
> Not only will the varnish job be screwed up, but also the shorts that
> were covering your fanny.
Yep, been there, done that, and I wonder how much use his 42 foot ketch
actually saw that he hasn't.
On 4/6/2010 7:49 PM, rich wrote:
> Hmmmmmmm... I'll try a thinned coat and see what happens. Maybe then
> the 0000 steel wool and paste wax as a final coat. Apply the wax with
> the steel wool.
>
> I think after that, the trim will go back on the boat. It's good
> enough to impress my relatives and kids right now.
>
> Thanks to all for the suggestions. As always, lots of good ideas
> here!
Bronze wool laddie. Or one of the synthetic abrasive pads. Not steel.
rich wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> Having a problem with Spar Varnish and dust motes or very small
> bubbles. After multiple coats of varnish, I sanded smooth, and
> applied a coat of just opened Marine Spar Varnish with a new brush. I
> stirred the varnish in the original can, didn't shake! The wood was
> wiped down with new cheese cloth dampened with mineral spirits to
> remove any sanding dust.
>
> This morning the finish was dry and there were minute small dust
> mites, and very small bubbles. I noticed these bubbles or specks when
> I applied the finish yesterday. There were there with just barely
> brushing out the finish, and also when I made more very light passes
> with the brush to try and smooth the finish.
>
> I'm at a loss as to how to fix this, so any help will be greatly
> appreciated!
1. Varnish in a clean room to avoid dust
- AND/OR -
2. Sand and polish.
--
dadiOH
____________________________
dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
rich wrote:
> Temp has been steady between 60 and 70F, somewhat lower humidity.
> BTW, these wood trim pieces go back on my boat when done, so they will
> see sunlight and fresh water. That's why the spar varnish, for
> durability, and that deep gloss finish.
If you have a boat you really should research what "spar" varnish is and
what to put it on. Answers, soft and spars. It is no more durable or
glossy than non-spar varnish.
--
dadiOH
____________________________
dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
J. Clarke wrote:
> On 4/6/2010 2:46 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
>> "David Nebenzahl" wrote:
>>
>>> i disagree. It's *very* durable; that's why it's used. More
>>> resistant to UV, too. Yes, it's softer, but that's a good thing,
>>> too; less likely to crack from temperature changes (think
>>> elastomeric paints).
>> -----------------------------------------
>> Park your rear end on a piece of brightwork covered with spar varnish
>> after it has been in the sun for a while and it will be the last time
>> you do it.
>>
>> Not only will the varnish job be screwed up, but also the shorts that
>> were covering your fanny.
>
> Yep, been there, done that, and I wonder how much use his 42 foot
> ketch actually saw that he hasn't.
Uhhh...one doesn't sit on any of the things I enumerated. And I lived on it
for 10 of those 20 years.
--
dadiOH
____________________________
dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
David Nebenzahl wrote:
> On 4/6/2010 6:20 AM dadiOH spake thus:
>
>> rich wrote:
>>
>>> Temp has been steady between 60 and 70F, somewhat lower humidity.
>>> BTW, these wood trim pieces go back on my boat when done, so they
>>> will see sunlight and fresh water. That's why the spar varnish, for
>>> durability, and that deep gloss finish.
>>
>> If you have a boat you really should research what "spar" varnish is
>> and what to put it on. Answers, soft and spars. It is no more
>> durable or glossy than non-spar varnish.
>
> i disagree. It's *very* durable; that's why it's used. More resistant
> to UV, too. Yes, it's softer, but that's a good thing, too; less
> likely to crack from temperature changes (think elastomeric paints).
I disagree with your disagreement :)
*ANY* good marine varnish is durable. And any can have UV inhibitors. The
reason for spar varnish being soft *is* to make it more flexible because it
is meant to be used on spars - only lubbers paint wood spars - and spars
bend. That's not to say it can't be used elsewhere if one is willing to
sacrifice abrasion resistance for flexibility.
I speak from 20 years experience owning a 42' ketch with main and mizzen
masts, main and mizzen booms, gaff and yard together with trunk cabin, dog
house, hand rails, skylight, hatch trim, cockpit and transom finished
bright; spar varnish on the spars, regular elsewhere. This was in the
tropics, nothing ever cracked from temperature changes (max range maybe 50
degrees).
--
dadiOH
____________________________
dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico