OT: Turbo Tax Software

dpb <[email protected]> writes:

>> Doesn't the back of the box clearly state what each version
>> of TT supports?
>
>Not sure about the "box", no. The problem people complain of here is
>they change the content (always downward) from year-to-year without
>making it clear up front.

As it happens, the box has a nice chart on the back with checkmarks
showing what each version of TT supports. And it has for at least
the last decade.

And, I see that amazon also shows the chart in the "From the Manufacturer"
section.

http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/aplusautomation/vendorimages/cb32acc1-7c8b-4167-abed-dce8a24bde50._V322476454_.jpg

See the first box:

"New - Some features are only available in these versions of TurboTax"

I have some sympathy for people who blindly purchased TT deluxe expecting
it to match the prior year capability set. I don't have much sympathy, tho, as it
is obvious they didn't read the fine print. Caveat Emptor.

On 1/17/2015 5:32 PM, Doug Winterburn wrote:
> On 01/17/2015 02:19 PM, Bill wrote:
>>
>> Tis the season. In case you are a (long time) Turbo Tax Deluxe customer
>> like I was, beware that it has changed this year and no longer supports
>> schedules C and D (and more).
>> Caveat Emptor (may I suggest H &R Deluxe?). Just thought you might
>> like to know. There is an avalanche of 1-start reviews at Amazon.com.
>> Tell your friends.
>
> Never used Turbo Tax, but have used H&R tax software for years. I like it!
>
>

I've been using Turbo Tax on line for years. I find it easier than
buying the software and I get a discount through my bank. Hard to
believe they don't support C & D. But they do at extra cost.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/turbotax-provokes-revolt-1421427613

On 1/18/2015 8:47 AM, Doug Winterburn wrote:
> On 01/17/2015 10:36 PM, Leon wrote:
>> On 1/17/2015 10:43 PM, Doug Winterburn wrote:
>>> On 01/17/2015 09:16 PM, Leon wrote:
>>>> On 1/17/2015 3:19 PM, Bill wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Tis the season. In case you are a (long time) Turbo Tax Deluxe
>>>>> customer
>>>>> like I was, beware that it has changed this year and no longer
>>>>> supports
>>>>> schedules C and D (and more).
>>>>> Caveat Emptor (may I suggest H &R Deluxe?). Just thought you might
>>>>> like to know. There is an avalanche of 1-start reviews at Amazon.com.
>>>>> Tell your friends.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Are you sure about that? I have only been using Basic for years and it
>>>> has always had Schedule C and my 2014 Basic is ready for me to enter
>>>> data for business income and expenses. If you are going by the what
>>>> the
>>>> cover says, it can be deceiving. And if you have the program be
>>>> sure to
>>>> down load the latest updates. TurboTax has always been late in having
>>>> all of the forms ready at the beginning of the year.
>>>>
>>>> Either way TurboTax offers a 60 day money back guarantee, I would think
>>>> that dropping forms for those people that buy the same version year
>>>> after year might bring on a big retail refund, much more than they
>>>> profited from the sale of the product. Turbotax gives the refund, not
>>>> the retailer.
>>>>
>>>> Just some thoughts in case you did not buy the product and were
>>>> going by
>>>> the outer advisory cover.
>>>
>>>
>>> <http://www.tampabay.com/news/business/personalfinance/turbotax-deluxe-is-less-deluxe-than-it-used-to-be-for-certain-users/2214044>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> Ok, I misunderstood the complaint. I thought the complaint was that
>> there was no Schedule C. I have never used the TurboTaax
>> suggestions/support at all and why I eventually ended up buying Basic
>> for the last 10~15 years. Wow, thinking back, I quit using a CPA in
>> 1985 when my TurboTax came to the same result to the penny. If I had a
>> question I used the actual IRS explanations. Those are the ones that
>> will hold up.
>>
>> I can certainly see the problem if one depended on TurboTax to explain
>> and guide ones way through the returns. But given TurboTaxes
>> circumstances, all they really have to offer is advice. I'm not really
>> sure if they can simply charge for free forms and offer nothing else.
>>
>> And FWIW this leaving out advice to get you to upgrade has been an on
>> going thing with TurboTax. When I first started using TurboTax 30+
>> years ago and before Intuit bought it there was only one version IIRC.
>>
>> But, this is the way Intuit does business, it use to be that Quicken was
>> free back in the mid to late 80's and then they started charging $19.99
>> and that was much much more than the bug riddled program was worth. I
>> still wish Dollars&Sense was available. LOL
>>
>>
> My understanding is that TT Deluxe pre 2014 allowed you to enter info to
> complete schedules C, D and E, but TT Deluxe 2014 doesn't give you any
> way to do that (other than paper forms) without a $40 upgrade. You are
> still able to enter dividend and interest income, but there is no way to
> enter stock/bond/fund trade sale and basis info other than paper forms
> or the upgrade.

After further investigating I believe you are correct. Actually I have
only been using Basic for the past 10-12 years and have been able to do
most all of the above. For what it is worth I think I once used Home
and Office and used Deluxe for a several years but learned that for me
the versions past Basic only provided fluff and their interpretations of
the tax laws.

I provided information to Bill on the this thread that shows how to get
a free upgrade from what ever version of 2014 TT you have to the top end
version, Home and Business. I just got off the phone and they did
indeed give me the free upgrade, with some assurances that if they did
not make this right I would switch to H&R for their free software offer
to TT customers. While on the phone the TT rep did indeed upgrade me to
Home and Business for free from Basic.




>
> The big feature of H&R Deluxe for me is the import feature which lets me
> enter the name of my financial institution and tracking number and all
> trades made through that institution are imported into my return. If I
> had to manually remember and enter trade dates, sales amounts and basis
> amounts for 3 or 4 dozed trades, I would certainly miss something.

IIRC this was available with TT Basic last year, at least with banking
information from the previous year.

But unless H&R Block follows TT's lead next year or TT reconsiders the
shit storm they have created with their customers this year I'll be
switching.


Thank you Doug and BILL for bringing this to my attention.

On 01/17/2015 02:19 PM, Bill wrote:
>
> Tis the season. In case you are a (long time) Turbo Tax Deluxe customer
> like I was, beware that it has changed this year and no longer supports
> schedules C and D (and more).
> Caveat Emptor (may I suggest H &R Deluxe?). Just thought you might
> like to know. There is an avalanche of 1-start reviews at Amazon.com.
> Tell your friends.

Never used Turbo Tax, but have used H&R tax software for years. I like it!


--
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure,the creed of ignorance, and the
gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery"
-Winston Churchill

On 01/17/2015 04:38 PM, John McCoy wrote:
> Doug Winterburn <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> On 01/17/2015 02:19 PM, Bill wrote:
>>>
>>> Tis the season. In case you are a (long time) Turbo Tax Deluxe
>>> customer like I was, beware that it has changed this year and no
>>> longer supports schedules C and D (and more).
>>> Caveat Emptor (may I suggest H &R Deluxe?). Just thought you might
>>> like to know. There is an avalanche of 1-start reviews at
>>> Amazon.com. Tell your friends.
>>
>> Never used Turbo Tax, but have used H&R tax software for years. I
>> like it!
>
> If you're comfortable you know what to fill in, and just want
> to avoid doing the math, there is an Excel spreadsheet here
> which will do the math for you:
>
> www.excel1040.com
>
> I've done my taxes this way for about 10 years. Much quicker
> than Turbo Tax or H&R Block if your taxes are reasonably
> straightforward.
>
> John
>
>
H&R downloads all of the trades done through my financial folks, so the
basic doesn't cut it. I still have to scrounge around to find the basis
for some of these trades, but just having them all accounted for is a
huge help.


--
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure,the creed of ignorance, and the
gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery"
-Winston Churchill

On 01/17/2015 09:16 PM, Leon wrote:
> On 1/17/2015 3:19 PM, Bill wrote:
>>
>> Tis the season. In case you are a (long time) Turbo Tax Deluxe customer
>> like I was, beware that it has changed this year and no longer supports
>> schedules C and D (and more).
>> Caveat Emptor (may I suggest H &R Deluxe?). Just thought you might
>> like to know. There is an avalanche of 1-start reviews at Amazon.com.
>> Tell your friends.
>
>
> Are you sure about that? I have only been using Basic for years and it
> has always had Schedule C and my 2014 Basic is ready for me to enter
> data for business income and expenses. If you are going by the what the
> cover says, it can be deceiving. And if you have the program be sure to
> down load the latest updates. TurboTax has always been late in having
> all of the forms ready at the beginning of the year.
>
> Either way TurboTax offers a 60 day money back guarantee, I would think
> that dropping forms for those people that buy the same version year
> after year might bring on a big retail refund, much more than they
> profited from the sale of the product. Turbotax gives the refund, not
> the retailer.
>
> Just some thoughts in case you did not buy the product and were going by
> the outer advisory cover.


<http://www.tampabay.com/news/business/personalfinance/turbotax-deluxe-is-less-deluxe-than-it-used-to-be-for-certain-users/2214044>

--
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure,the creed of ignorance, and the
gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery"
-Winston Churchill

On 01/17/2015 10:36 PM, Leon wrote:
> On 1/17/2015 10:43 PM, Doug Winterburn wrote:
>> On 01/17/2015 09:16 PM, Leon wrote:
>>> On 1/17/2015 3:19 PM, Bill wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Tis the season. In case you are a (long time) Turbo Tax Deluxe
>>>> customer
>>>> like I was, beware that it has changed this year and no longer supports
>>>> schedules C and D (and more).
>>>> Caveat Emptor (may I suggest H &R Deluxe?). Just thought you might
>>>> like to know. There is an avalanche of 1-start reviews at Amazon.com.
>>>> Tell your friends.
>>>
>>>
>>> Are you sure about that? I have only been using Basic for years and it
>>> has always had Schedule C and my 2014 Basic is ready for me to enter
>>> data for business income and expenses. If you are going by the what the
>>> cover says, it can be deceiving. And if you have the program be sure to
>>> down load the latest updates. TurboTax has always been late in having
>>> all of the forms ready at the beginning of the year.
>>>
>>> Either way TurboTax offers a 60 day money back guarantee, I would think
>>> that dropping forms for those people that buy the same version year
>>> after year might bring on a big retail refund, much more than they
>>> profited from the sale of the product. Turbotax gives the refund, not
>>> the retailer.
>>>
>>> Just some thoughts in case you did not buy the product and were going by
>>> the outer advisory cover.
>>
>>
>> <http://www.tampabay.com/news/business/personalfinance/turbotax-deluxe-is-less-deluxe-than-it-used-to-be-for-certain-users/2214044>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> Ok, I misunderstood the complaint. I thought the complaint was that
> there was no Schedule C. I have never used the TurboTaax
> suggestions/support at all and why I eventually ended up buying Basic
> for the last 10~15 years. Wow, thinking back, I quit using a CPA in
> 1985 when my TurboTax came to the same result to the penny. If I had a
> question I used the actual IRS explanations. Those are the ones that
> will hold up.
>
> I can certainly see the problem if one depended on TurboTax to explain
> and guide ones way through the returns. But given TurboTaxes
> circumstances, all they really have to offer is advice. I'm not really
> sure if they can simply charge for free forms and offer nothing else.
>
> And FWIW this leaving out advice to get you to upgrade has been an on
> going thing with TurboTax. When I first started using TurboTax 30+
> years ago and before Intuit bought it there was only one version IIRC.
>
> But, this is the way Intuit does business, it use to be that Quicken was
> free back in the mid to late 80's and then they started charging $19.99
> and that was much much more than the bug riddled program was worth. I
> still wish Dollars&Sense was available. LOL
>
>
My understanding is that TT Deluxe pre 2014 allowed you to enter info to
complete schedules C, D and E, but TT Deluxe 2014 doesn't give you any
way to do that (other than paper forms) without a $40 upgrade. You are
still able to enter dividend and interest income, but there is no way to
enter stock/bond/fund trade sale and basis info other than paper forms
or the upgrade.

The big feature of H&R Deluxe for me is the import feature which lets me
enter the name of my financial institution and tracking number and all
trades made through that institution are imported into my return. If I
had to manually remember and enter trade dates, sales amounts and basis
amounts for 3 or 4 dozed trades, I would certainly miss something.


"Socialism is a philosophy of failure,the creed of ignorance, and the
gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery"
-Winston Churchill

On 1/18/2015 3:04 PM, Bill wrote:

> There is also Microsoft Access, but the learning curve is
> significantlysteeper. Not so steepif you are already familiar with the
> "relational database" paradigm, maybe quite a chore otherwise. Certainly
> no more difficult than Google SketchUp.


Made a pretty decent side income in the nineties and early 2000's
designing/writing VB (mostly compiled, stand alone, not VBA (but that
also)), accounting oriented applications for clients, using MS Access as
the database engine.

No way in hell would I suggest that useful relational database
programing would equate to SU with regard to a reduced learning curve.

Quit using QB's many years ago due to Intuit's questionable business
practices; but still use Quicken and TT (Home and Business) because of
convenience, ease of filing more than one return (I routinely do my
youngest daughter's returns at no additional cost), and their audit
insurance (which I've had to use a couple of times to my benefit).

Basically I've learned that the way to sidestep Intuits forced upgrade
shenanigans with their programs is to simply not use any of their online
banking/accounting features, online access protocols being the choke
point where they have you by the balls should they decide it is time for
you to "upgrade" for their financial benefit.

Still wouldn't piss on 'em if they were on fire, but the utility/cost
benefit ratio by using them remains in my favor thus far.

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On Sat, 17 Jan 2015 16:19:20 -0500, Bill <[email protected]>
wrote:

>
>Tis the season. In case you are a (long time) Turbo Tax Deluxe customer
>like I was, beware that it has changed this year and no longer supports
>schedules C and D (and more).
>Caveat Emptor (may I suggest H &R Deluxe?). Just thought you might
>like to know. There is an avalanche of 1-start reviews at Amazon.com.
>Tell your friends.

I need the Premier version again this year. Next year I'll probably
do it by hand. ;-)

On 1/17/2015 4:32 PM, Doug Winterburn wrote:
> On 01/17/2015 02:19 PM, Bill wrote:
>>
>> Tis the season. In case you are a (long time) Turbo Tax Deluxe customer
>> like I was, beware that it has changed this year and no longer supports
>> schedules C and D (and more).
>> Caveat Emptor (may I suggest H &R Deluxe?). Just thought you might
>> like to know. There is an avalanche of 1-start reviews at Amazon.com.
>> Tell your friends.
>
> Never used Turbo Tax, but have used H&R tax software for years. I
like it!
>
>

+1 Started out using TurboTax along with QuickBooks. Got so pissed off
at Intuit's continual money grab I dumped TurboTax.

Went to H&R Block Premium & Business and never looked back. Nice
program even with the learning curve due to the way they approach the
interviews, etc. but it's sweet.

DO NOT buy from H&R Block. Better prices may be had with it on sale at
the Big Box office places or Amazon.com

I have Amazon Prime now and bought it for $39.95. It lists for $79.99
and H&R Block had a "special offer" just for me that was going have me
paying a bit over $60, I think. That includes a State Income Tax return
as well.

On 1/18/2015 12:02 AM, Bill wrote:
> Leon wrote:
>> On 1/17/2015 10:41 PM, Bill wrote:
>>> Leon wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Just some thoughts in case you did not buy the product and were going
>>>> by the outer advisory cover.
>>>
>>> After spending a few hours understanding the details, I became disgusted
>>> and bought the H&R Block version for about $26.
>>> I don't want to support them (Intuit).
>>
>>
>> Well give us a report back on how you like H&R Block. As I mentioned
>> to Doug, I misunderstood you and thought that you were saying that
>> Schedule C was not included. I now understand that you said actual
>> "guided support" of schedule C.
>
> Well, if you do use Deluxe to file a schedule C or D, without guided
> support, then you cannot file electronically and the software will not
> do a "review" (so I understand).
>
> I've done taxes by hand for more years than I have done them on a
> computer, so I'll be okay. : )
>
>
>
>> I never used the support guides/advice anyway so I will probably be
>> OK. But seriously I would like to hear how you like the other brand,
>> I have never been a fan of Intuit.
>

Further investigating backs up exactly what you are saying. I am on the
phone with TurboTax right now.

Dissatisfied customers do have options, however. One is to call Intuit
(at 800-445-1875, from 8 AM to 8 PM EST) and demand satisfaction.
Meighan assured Forbes yesterday that every agent at that number “has
discretion to do what’s necessary” to keep a customer— meaning, he said,
they will give customers a free upgrade if they demand it, or a
discounted one if that’s enough to keep them. (So, if you call,
threaten to jump ship and don’t settle for less than an upgrade.)


Block is offering dissatisfied TurboTax customers a free download of its
Deluxe software, which normally sells for $44.95 and still allows
E-filing of Schedules D and C. Gene King, Block’s director of
communications, says TurboTax purchasers should send an email to
[email protected] containing their name, email and phone number;
whether they use a Windows or MAC operating system; and a scan of their
store receipt for TurboTax or a copy of the email showing their TurboTax
download code. In return, they’ll be sent a link good for one free
download of H&R Block Deluxe + State. (Data you’ve entered in last
year’s or this year’s version of TurboTax should be transferable.)

dpb <[email protected]> writes:
>On 01/19/2015 10:21 AM, Swingman wrote:
>...
>
>> Quit using QB's many years ago due to Intuit's questionable business
>> practices; but still use Quicken and TT (Home and Business) because of
>> convenience, ease of filing more than one return (I routinely do my
>> youngest daughter's returns at no additional cost), and their audit
>> insurance (which I've had to use a couple of times to my benefit).
>>
>> Basically I've learned that the way to sidestep Intuits forced upgrade
>> shenanigans with their programs is to simply not use any of their online
>> banking/accounting features, online access protocols being the choke
>> point where they have you by the balls should they decide it is time for
>> you to "upgrade" for their financial benefit.
>...
>
>Have to admit I've not fully investigated TT H&B; will it do any
>requested form/schedule? Not that I'm at all likely to change over from
>using the accountant for the actual filing at this point, just curious.
>
>Agree, you _can_ cut Intuit out of the loop; it's just such a slimy way
>of doing business I can't imagine _ever_ using them as a
>resource-critical partner.

Isn't using Intuit's TT a convenience? After all, you can download,
fill out, and mail in the IRS forms directly for the cost of postage
and some time.

Shouldn't intuit be able to monetize their programmers efforts?

Doesn't the back of the box clearly state what each version
of TT supports?

Why all the complaints? Free enterprise, dontchaknow...

On 1/19/2015 1:35 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 1/19/2015 1:31 PM, Bill wrote:
>
>> You can read many complaints at Amazon.com under the "most helpful
>> negative review" on the PC product.
>> That's the post that is getting all of the attention. No sense in me
>> duplicating them here. I will just say that Intuit's
>> conduct in this appears to me to be deliberate deception (fraud).
>>
>
> Sleazy, yes. Fraud? You won't prove it.

Fortunately, proving it is not really necessary. In the realm of
consumer opinion (and many others as well) "perception is the reality."
The perception that Intuit would screw their own grandmother on her
death bed is out there and growing. Hope their loan business takes off
and that they take a giant hit on the next bust out.

On 1/17/2015 10:41 PM, Bill wrote:
> Leon wrote:
>>
>> Just some thoughts in case you did not buy the product and were going
>> by the outer advisory cover.
>
> After spending a few hours understanding the details, I became disgusted
> and bought the H&R Block version for about $26.
> I don't want to support them (Intuit).


Well give us a report back on how you like H&R Block. As I mentioned to
Doug, I misunderstood you and thought that you were saying that Schedule
C was not included. I now understand that you said actual "guided
support" of schedule C. I never used the support guides/advice anyway
so I will probably be OK. But seriously I would like to hear how you
like the other brand, I have never been a fan of Intuit.

On 1/17/2015 10:34 PM, Bill wrote:
> Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> On 1/17/2015 5:32 PM, Doug Winterburn wrote:
>>> On 01/17/2015 02:19 PM, Bill wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Tis the season. In case you are a (long time) Turbo Tax Deluxe
>>>> customer
>>>> like I was, beware that it has changed this year and no longer supports
>>>> schedules C and D (and more).
>>>> Caveat Emptor (may I suggest H &R Deluxe?). Just thought you might
>>>> like to know. There is an avalanche of 1-start reviews at Amazon.com.
>>>> Tell your friends.
>>>
>>> Never used Turbo Tax, but have used H&R tax software for years. I
>>> like it!
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I've been using Turbo Tax on line for years. I find it easier than
>> buying the software and I get a discount through my bank. Hard to
>> believe they don't support C & D. But they do at extra cost.
>> http://www.wsj.com/articles/turbotax-provokes-revolt-1421427613
>
> I'm one of the ones they have infuriated! ; ) Not because of the
> price increase, but because they have hidden the price increase! One
> buys the $49 Deluxe version as usual and later learns that it doesn't do
> what it used to! That is will be $30 more if you sold a single stock
> and need Schedule D, and an additional 30 or 40 if you need Schedule C
> (which I don't). The part that gets me is that the loyal customer
> doesn't really learn the details until he or she is half-done with the
> return. I'd call it fraud, but I'm not an expert.

I can certainly understand your frustration but what you are witnessing
is nothing new with TurboTax, they have been offering these type
upgrades for many years. I have been using TT for so long I just answer
the questions same as the previous year.

I was surprised that the basic version, the one I have been using for
years, seems to be much less expensive this year, $15. I think I had
been paying $25~$30 for the basic.

On 1/19/2015 12:03 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> dpb <[email protected]> writes:
>> On 01/19/2015 10:21 AM, Swingman wrote:
>> ...
>>
>>> Quit using QB's many years ago due to Intuit's questionable business
>>> practices; but still use Quicken and TT (Home and Business) because of
>>> convenience, ease of filing more than one return (I routinely do my
>>> youngest daughter's returns at no additional cost), and their audit
>>> insurance (which I've had to use a couple of times to my benefit).
>>>
>>> Basically I've learned that the way to sidestep Intuits forced upgrade
>>> shenanigans with their programs is to simply not use any of their online
>>> banking/accounting features, online access protocols being the choke
>>> point where they have you by the balls should they decide it is time for
>>> you to "upgrade" for their financial benefit.
>> ...
>>
>> Have to admit I've not fully investigated TT H&B; will it do any
>> requested form/schedule? Not that I'm at all likely to change over from
>> using the accountant for the actual filing at this point, just curious.
>>
>> Agree, you _can_ cut Intuit out of the loop; it's just such a slimy way
>> of doing business I can't imagine _ever_ using them as a
>> resource-critical partner.
>
> Isn't using Intuit's TT a convenience? After all, you can download,
> fill out, and mail in the IRS forms directly for the cost of postage
> and some time.
>
> Shouldn't intuit be able to monetize their programmers efforts?

Absolutely and thaty have been doing that for a few decades now. The
beef we have now is that to get a schedule C and file on line you now
have to buy the the $99 version instead of the $20 version. In all
prior years you could get Schedule C for the entry lever price, now you
have to buy the top of the line version if you want that schedule and
file on line too.

>
> Doesn't the back of the box clearly state what each version
> of TT supports?

Yes it does but there are many definitions for "Support". In past years
TT defined "support" as giving advice on top of the program basics.
This year TT unapparently defines "support" as the program no longer has
the forms that have always been provided in the past that the government
supplies. It has been at least a decade since TT has mentioned on the
box that the basic included all the forms. The chief reason to buy the
3 upper grades of TT was to get more information for advice on more
detailed topics. Because I never used their "extra" advice on the upper
end TT versions I eventually switched to the basic about 12 years ago.
I saw no difference in how the program operated.


>
> Why all the complaints? Free enterprise, dontchaknow...
>

Well that is true and that works both ways. Wall Street Journal
interviewed the VP of TT and he gave a number to call to upgrade for
free to "ANY" current version of TT. Their smoke and mirrors tactics
has backfired strongly enough that the VP is involved in putting out
fires. For the past 30 years I have used TT. This year after buying
basic again I learned that the Schedule C forms are gone in fact all
forms are gone and you have to pick the interview process to fill out
your return. I call the number on Sunday morning and was upgraded for
free to the top end version, the only that now has Schedule C.

On 1/17/2015 3:19 PM, Bill wrote:
>
> Tis the season. In case you are a (long time) Turbo Tax Deluxe customer
> like I was, beware that it has changed this year and no longer supports
> schedules C and D (and more).
> Caveat Emptor (may I suggest H &R Deluxe?). Just thought you might
> like to know. There is an avalanche of 1-start reviews at Amazon.com.
> Tell your friends.


Are you sure about that? I have only been using Basic for years and it
has always had Schedule C and my 2014 Basic is ready for me to enter
data for business income and expenses. If you are going by the what the
cover says, it can be deceiving. And if you have the program be sure to
down load the latest updates. TurboTax has always been late in having
all of the forms ready at the beginning of the year.

Either way TurboTax offers a 60 day money back guarantee, I would think
that dropping forms for those people that buy the same version year
after year might bring on a big retail refund, much more than they
profited from the sale of the product. Turbotax gives the refund, not
the retailer.

Just some thoughts in case you did not buy the product and were going by
the outer advisory cover.

Doug Winterburn <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> On 01/17/2015 02:19 PM, Bill wrote:
>>
>> Tis the season. In case you are a (long time) Turbo Tax Deluxe
>> customer like I was, beware that it has changed this year and no
>> longer supports schedules C and D (and more).
>> Caveat Emptor (may I suggest H &R Deluxe?). Just thought you might
>> like to know. There is an avalanche of 1-start reviews at
>> Amazon.com. Tell your friends.
>
> Never used Turbo Tax, but have used H&R tax software for years. I
> like it!

If you're comfortable you know what to fill in, and just want
to avoid doing the math, there is an Excel spreadsheet here
which will do the math for you:

www.excel1040.com

I've done my taxes this way for about 10 years. Much quicker
than Turbo Tax or H&R Block if your taxes are reasonably
straightforward.

John

On 1/19/2015 1:31 PM, Bill wrote:

> You can read many complaints at Amazon.com under the "most helpful
> negative review" on the PC product.
> That's the post that is getting all of the attention. No sense in me
> duplicating them here. I will just say that Intuit's
> conduct in this appears to me to be deliberate deception (fraud).
>

Sleazy, yes. Fraud? You won't prove it.

On 1/20/2015 12:21 PM, Bill wrote:
> dpb wrote:
>>
>> And, I'll add, I'm perfectly willing to spend more $$ than I might on
>> TT (presuming I count nothing for my time) with my local CPA guy.
>> Intuit leaves such a distaste for their manner in doing business it's
>> not just the money, it's the attitude.
>>
>> --
>
> Someone over at Amazon (not me) wrote, "I'd rather do my taxes with a
> hammer and chisel than use TT again!"
> I got a laugh out of that--as that's about where I am with it. I'm
> pleased to help point out the need for weasel-awareness, as necessary!


But to bring this all in to perspective. I appreciate the fact that
every one has his principals. But there comes a point that holding a
grudge does not do you any good and that company which you may hold a
grudge against is pretty much unaware of your grudge and looses less
sleep than you do. Basically it does you more harm, " in some cases" to
keep holding that grudge. You have to pick your battles.

My son is a CPA and agrees with all of us about TT. But he said unless
H&R Block has made some pretty long strides to improve their product
over what it was 5 years ago TT is still the best choice for ease of use.

Unless TT goes back to they way they were last year I will most likely
change but only if I can save money by making that change.

On 1/20/2015 9:57 AM, Leon wrote:


> I will say that when Bill initially mentioned this I sorta defended TT
> as their cover has always been deceiving and I thought he was
> misunderstanding. He was right I was wrong, the foggy requirement chart
> provided on all of the past years boxes as well as this years still
> don't tell you what you need to know to buy the correct product.
> According to the chart for the past 10 or so you have always needed to
> buy the top tier for business purposes. That has not been true. I have
> got along just fine with the Basic.


That was my initial thought. Maybe a menu change and it is not easy to
find or some other simple explanation. IMO, Intuit screwed up.

The other thing that I noticed in this thread was references to Quick
Books and how it must be upgraded frequently. We've been using the same
accounting program at work since 1998 with one upgrade about 2000.

On Mon, 19 Jan 2015 18:03:19 GMT, [email protected] (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:



>
>Isn't using Intuit's TT a convenience? After all, you can download,
>fill out, and mail in the IRS forms directly for the cost of postage
>and some time.

>
>Shouldn't intuit be able to monetize their programmers efforts?

Sure, no one is disputing that.


>Doesn't the back of the box clearly state what each version
>of TT supports?
>
>Why all the complaints? Free enterprise, dontchaknow...

How clear is clear? When you've been buying a product for years you
think every box of crackers is the same. Every quart of oil is still
a quart. Every can of coffee is a pound. . . . or looks like it.

If they raised the price a couple of bucks or it there was a sticker
that said "Schedule C and D users now need the XXX Edition" there
would be very few complaints.

What they did is perfectly legal, but was really poor marketing. Given
the bad publicity, people that never used those schedules will be
motivated to try a different software this year.

On 1/20/2015 10:28 AM, dpb wrote:
> On 01/19/2015 3:21 PM, dpb wrote:
>> On 01/19/2015 1:54 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> ...
>>
>>> I have some sympathy for people who blindly purchased TT deluxe
>>> expecting
>>> it to match the prior year capability set. I don't have much sympathy,
>>> tho, as it
>>> is obvious they didn't read the fine print. Caveat Emptor.
>>
>> That's one attitude, certainly, and anybody who's done business with
>> Intuit should have learned the lesson very early on, but it's still
>> pretty "user belligerent" imo...
>>
>> I decided years ago I personally wouldn't do business with Intuit any
>> further if there were any practical other choice....so far, have been
>> able to get by nicely...
>
> And, I'll add, I'm perfectly willing to spend more $$ than I might on TT
> (presuming I count nothing for my time) with my local CPA guy. Intuit
> leaves such a distaste for their manner in doing business it's not just
> the money, it's the attitude.
>
> --
Exactly, I don't mind spending the extra money but if I have to I want
to have the option of buying another program. That is more difficult if
you buy TT Basic and find that you have to upgrade to something more
expensive than what a competitor offers.

On 1/20/2015 10:41 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 1/20/2015 9:57 AM, Leon wrote:
>
>
>> I will say that when Bill initially mentioned this I sorta defended TT
>> as their cover has always been deceiving and I thought he was
>> misunderstanding. He was right I was wrong, the foggy requirement chart
>> provided on all of the past years boxes as well as this years still
>> don't tell you what you need to know to buy the correct product.
>> According to the chart for the past 10 or so you have always needed to
>> buy the top tier for business purposes. That has not been true. I have
>> got along just fine with the Basic.
>
>
> That was my initial thought. Maybe a menu change and it is not easy to
> find or some other simple explanation. IMO, Intuit screwed up.
>
> The other thing that I noticed in this thread was references to Quick
> Books and how it must be upgraded frequently. We've been using the same
> accounting program at work since 1998 with one upgrade about 2000.
>

I don't know about QB but I have been using Quicken for 25+ years.

In the last 5-8 years they started requiring you to upgrade/update every
3-4 years IF you want to use the banking down load features. I use this
feature to down load all of my credit card purchases. I then check
those downloaded charges against my receipts.

I write 3-5 checks per month and probably have 25-40 charges per month.
That feature is important to me. I manually enter the checks but not
the charges.
Anyway Quicken continues to work fine if you don't upgrade, you just
don't get to download info from the banks.

On 1/20/2015 1:12 PM, Bill wrote:
> Leon wrote:
>>
>> But to bring this all in to perspective. I appreciate the fact that
>> every one has his principals. But there comes a point that holding a
>> grudge does not do you any good and that company which you may hold a
>> grudge against is pretty much unaware of your grudge and looses less
>> sleep than you do. Basically it does you more harm, " in some cases"
>> to keep holding that grudge. You have to pick your battles.
>>
>
> I have "delegated" one of my battles. Help spread the word! ; )
>
> http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-mh-intuits-catastrophic-turbotax-20150118-column.html
>


BTY, Did you get the Deluxe H&R Block version?
Did it include schedule C? According to their web site you should go
Premium for that.

On 1/20/2015 1:12 PM, Bill wrote:
> Leon wrote:
>>
>> But to bring this all in to perspective. I appreciate the fact that
>> every one has his principals. But there comes a point that holding a
>> grudge does not do you any good and that company which you may hold a
>> grudge against is pretty much unaware of your grudge and looses less
>> sleep than you do. Basically it does you more harm, " in some cases"
>> to keep holding that grudge. You have to pick your battles.
>>
>
> I have "delegated" one of my battles. Help spread the word! ; )
>
> http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-mh-intuits-catastrophic-turbotax-20150118-column.html
>


There you go! I'm just saying, TT may still be the best choice next
year even if they choose to not go back to the old way. Some will
refuse to consider TT even if it may very well be in their best
interests to do so.

I'm right there with you on this but I will not let my feeling this year
cloud my judgement next year. I'll look at all equally.

On 1/17/2015 11:34 PM, Bill wrote:
> Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> On 1/17/2015 5:32 PM, Doug Winterburn wrote:
>>> On 01/17/2015 02:19 PM, Bill wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Tis the season. In case you are a (long time) Turbo Tax Deluxe
>>>> customer
>>>> like I was, beware that it has changed this year and no longer supports
>>>> schedules C and D (and more).
>>>> Caveat Emptor (may I suggest H &R Deluxe?). Just thought you might
>>>> like to know. There is an avalanche of 1-start reviews at Amazon.com.
>>>> Tell your friends.
>>>
>>> Never used Turbo Tax, but have used H&R tax software for years. I
>>> like it!
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I've been using Turbo Tax on line for years. I find it easier than
>> buying the software and I get a discount through my bank. Hard to
>> believe they don't support C & D. But they do at extra cost.
>> http://www.wsj.com/articles/turbotax-provokes-revolt-1421427613
>
> I'm one of the ones they have infuriated! ; ) Not because of the
> price increase, but because they have hidden the price increase! One
> buys the $49 Deluxe version as usual and later learns that it doesn't do
> what it used to! That is will be $30 more if you sold a single stock
> and need Schedule D, and an additional 30 or 40 if you need Schedule C
> (which I don't). The part that gets me is that the loyal customer
> doesn't really learn the details until he or she is half-done with the
> return. I'd call it fraud, but I'm not an expert.

I heard on the news that if you call them and complain they will upgrade
you no charge.

I don't use any of these, the wife used to run the numbers for a think
tank.. I'll let her do the taxes.

--
Jeff

On 1/20/2015 7:15 PM, Bill wrote:
> Leon wrote:
>> Some will refuse to consider TT even if it may very well be in their
>> best interests to do so.
>>
>> I'm right there with you on this but I will not let my feeling this
>> year cloud my judgement next year. I'll look at all equally.
>
> There are some "pessimists" who think TT may make their storage formats
> somehow proprietary so that they
> will not be importable by other software makers next year. This rat is
> jumping ship this year! : ) YMMV!


If I switched I would not want to use something generated by TT to
import into a competitors program anyway. If something went wrong there
would be a lot of finger pointing. I would opt for manual entry, which
is what I do except for account numbers for Identification only and
personal data.

Unquestionably Confused wrote:
> On 1/17/2015 4:32 PM, Doug Winterburn wrote:
> > On 01/17/2015 02:19 PM, Bill wrote:
> >>
> >> Tis the season. In case you are a (long time) Turbo Tax Deluxe
> customer
> >> like I was, beware that it has changed this year and no longer
> supports
> >> schedules C and D (and more).
> >> Caveat Emptor (may I suggest H &R Deluxe?). Just thought you might
> >> like to know. There is an avalanche of 1-start reviews at Amazon.com.
> >> Tell your friends.
> >
> > Never used Turbo Tax, but have used H&R tax software for years. I
> like it!
> >
> >
>
> +1 Started out using TurboTax along with QuickBooks. Got so pissed
> off at Intuit's continual money grab I dumped TurboTax.
I won't go into the details here (I have seen several articles
on the topic), but what they are doing this year looks like fraud to me.
I've learned I don't like the way they do business, as you have.


>
> Went to H&R Block Premium & Business and never looked back. Nice
> program even with the learning curve due to the way they approach the
> interviews, etc. but it's sweet.
>
> DO NOT buy from H&R Block. Better prices may be had with it on sale
> at the Big Box office places or Amazon.com
>
> I have Amazon Prime now and bought it for $39.95. It lists for $79.99
> and H&R Block had a "special offer" just for me that was going have me
> paying a bit over $60, I think. That includes a State Income Tax
> return as well.

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 1/17/2015 5:32 PM, Doug Winterburn wrote:
>> On 01/17/2015 02:19 PM, Bill wrote:
>>>
>>> Tis the season. In case you are a (long time) Turbo Tax Deluxe
>>> customer
>>> like I was, beware that it has changed this year and no longer supports
>>> schedules C and D (and more).
>>> Caveat Emptor (may I suggest H &R Deluxe?). Just thought you might
>>> like to know. There is an avalanche of 1-start reviews at Amazon.com.
>>> Tell your friends.
>>
>> Never used Turbo Tax, but have used H&R tax software for years. I
>> like it!
>>
>>
>
> I've been using Turbo Tax on line for years. I find it easier than
> buying the software and I get a discount through my bank. Hard to
> believe they don't support C & D. But they do at extra cost.
> http://www.wsj.com/articles/turbotax-provokes-revolt-1421427613

I'm one of the ones they have infuriated! ; ) Not because of the
price increase, but because they have hidden the price increase! One
buys the $49 Deluxe version as usual and later learns that it doesn't do
what it used to! That is will be $30 more if you sold a single stock
and need Schedule D, and an additional 30 or 40 if you need Schedule C
(which I don't). The part that gets me is that the loyal customer
doesn't really learn the details until he or she is half-done with the
return. I'd call it fraud, but I'm not an expert.

Leon wrote:
>
> Just some thoughts in case you did not buy the product and were going
> by the outer advisory cover.

After spending a few hours understanding the details, I became disgusted
and bought the H&R Block version for about $26.
I don't want to support them (Intuit).

Leon wrote:
> On 1/17/2015 10:41 PM, Bill wrote:
>> Leon wrote:
>>>
>>> Just some thoughts in case you did not buy the product and were going
>>> by the outer advisory cover.
>>
>> After spending a few hours understanding the details, I became disgusted
>> and bought the H&R Block version for about $26.
>> I don't want to support them (Intuit).
>
>
> Well give us a report back on how you like H&R Block. As I mentioned
> to Doug, I misunderstood you and thought that you were saying that
> Schedule C was not included. I now understand that you said actual
> "guided support" of schedule C.

Well, if you do use Deluxe to file a schedule C or D, without guided
support, then you cannot file electronically and the software will not
do a "review" (so I understand).

I've done taxes by hand for more years than I have done them on a
computer, so I'll be okay. : )



> I never used the support guides/advice anyway so I will probably be
> OK. But seriously I would like to hear how you like the other brand,
> I have never been a fan of Intuit.

On 01/17/2015 9:25 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
...

> I've been using Turbo Tax on line for years. I find it easier than
> buying the software and I get a discount through my bank. Hard to
> believe they don't support C & D. But they do at extra cost.
> http://www.wsj.com/articles/turbotax-provokes-revolt-1421427613

Add another to the list of Intuit despisers...

I refused to upgrade Quickbooks clear back after Pro 2000; it still
serves just as well as it did then.

TT has never been adequate for farm and was barely so for self-employed
consulting gig alone so after one year I just take the QB tax reports
and a bunch of memorized specific reports to my accountant.

Costs a little more but get the convenience of a second set of eyes and
he does all the amortization schedules and the royalties that I don't
think are available from TT at all at any price...at least didn't use to be.

But the biggest thing is I'll never spend another dime on Intuit;
they're just too sleazy.

--

Leon wrote:
> On 1/18/2015 9:47 AM, Leon wrote:
>> On 1/18/2015 12:02 AM, Bill wrote:
>>> Leon wrote:
>>>> On 1/17/2015 10:41 PM, Bill wrote:
>>>>> Leon wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Just some thoughts in case you did not buy the product and were
>>>>>> going
>>>>>> by the outer advisory cover.
>>>>>
>>>>> After spending a few hours understanding the details, I became
>>>>> disgusted
>>>>> and bought the H&R Block version for about $26.
>>>>> I don't want to support them (Intuit).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Well give us a report back on how you like H&R Block. As I mentioned
>>>> to Doug, I misunderstood you and thought that you were saying that
>>>> Schedule C was not included. I now understand that you said actual
>>>> "guided support" of schedule C.
>>>
>>> Well, if you do use Deluxe to file a schedule C or D, without guided
>>> support, then you cannot file electronically and the software will not
>>> do a "review" (so I understand).
>>>
>>> I've done taxes by hand for more years than I have done them on a
>>> computer, so I'll be okay. : )
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> I never used the support guides/advice anyway so I will probably be
>>>> OK. But seriously I would like to hear how you like the other brand,
>>>> I have never been a fan of Intuit.
>>>
>>
>> Further investigating backs up exactly what you are saying. I am on the
>> phone with TurboTax right now.
>>
>> Dissatisfied customers do have options, however. One is to call Intuit
>> (at 800-445-1875, from 8 AM to 8 PM EST) and demand satisfaction.
>> Meighan assured Forbes yesterday that every agent at that number “has
>> discretion to do what’s necessary” to keep a customer— meaning, he said,
>> they will give customers a free upgrade if they demand it, or a
>> discounted one if that’s enough to keep them. (So, if you call, threaten
>> to jump ship and don’t settle for less than an upgrade.)
>>
>>
>> Block is offering dissatisfied TurboTax customers a free download of its
>> Deluxe software, which normally sells for $44.95 and still allows
>> E-filing of Schedules D and C. Gene King, Block’s director of
>> communications, says TurboTax purchasers should send an email to
>> [email protected] containing their name, email and phone number;
>> whether they use a Windows or MAC operating system; and a scan of their
>> store receipt for TurboTax or a copy of the email showing their TurboTax
>> download code. In return, they’ll be sent a link good for one free
>> download of H&R Block Deluxe + State. (Data you’ve entered in last
>> year’s or this year’s version of TurboTax should be transferable.)
>>
>>
>>
>>
> And FWIW I got a free up grade to TT Home and Business.

Yes, you are all set for This Year. But, you are "half-way through"
their hidden price increase.
I didn't want to give them any money at all this year. Your
circumstances are certainly more complex than mine.

Doug Winterburn wrote:
> On 01/17/2015 10:36 PM, Leon wrote:
>> On 1/17/2015 10:43 PM, Doug Winterburn wrote:
>>> On 01/17/2015 09:16 PM, Leon wrote:
>>>> On 1/17/2015 3:19 PM, Bill wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Tis the season. In case you are a (long time) Turbo Tax Deluxe
>>>>> customer
>>>>> like I was, beware that it has changed this year and no longer
>>>>> supports
>>>>> schedules C and D (and more).
>>>>> Caveat Emptor (may I suggest H &R Deluxe?). Just thought you might
>>>>> like to know. There is an avalanche of 1-start reviews at
>>>>> Amazon.com.
>>>>> Tell your friends.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Are you sure about that? I have only been using Basic for years
>>>> and it
>>>> has always had Schedule C and my 2014 Basic is ready for me to enter
>>>> data for business income and expenses. If you are going by the
>>>> what the
>>>> cover says, it can be deceiving. And if you have the program be
>>>> sure to
>>>> down load the latest updates. TurboTax has always been late in having
>>>> all of the forms ready at the beginning of the year.
>>>>
>>>> Either way TurboTax offers a 60 day money back guarantee, I would
>>>> think
>>>> that dropping forms for those people that buy the same version year
>>>> after year might bring on a big retail refund, much more than they
>>>> profited from the sale of the product. Turbotax gives the refund, not
>>>> the retailer.
>>>>
>>>> Just some thoughts in case you did not buy the product and were
>>>> going by
>>>> the outer advisory cover.
>>>
>>>
>>> <http://www.tampabay.com/news/business/personalfinance/turbotax-deluxe-is-less-deluxe-than-it-used-to-be-for-certain-users/2214044>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> Ok, I misunderstood the complaint. I thought the complaint was that
>> there was no Schedule C. I have never used the TurboTaax
>> suggestions/support at all and why I eventually ended up buying Basic
>> for the last 10~15 years. Wow, thinking back, I quit using a CPA in
>> 1985 when my TurboTax came to the same result to the penny. If I had a
>> question I used the actual IRS explanations. Those are the ones that
>> will hold up.
>>
>> I can certainly see the problem if one depended on TurboTax to explain
>> and guide ones way through the returns. But given TurboTaxes
>> circumstances, all they really have to offer is advice. I'm not really
>> sure if they can simply charge for free forms and offer nothing else.
>>
>> And FWIW this leaving out advice to get you to upgrade has been an on
>> going thing with TurboTax. When I first started using TurboTax 30+
>> years ago and before Intuit bought it there was only one version IIRC.
>>
>> But, this is the way Intuit does business, it use to be that Quicken was
>> free back in the mid to late 80's and then they started charging $19.99
>> and that was much much more than the bug riddled program was worth. I
>> still wish Dollars&Sense was available. LOL
>>
>>
> My understanding is that TT Deluxe pre 2014 allowed you to enter info
> to complete schedules C, D and E, but TT Deluxe 2014 doesn't give you
> any way to do that (other than paper forms) without a $40 upgrade.
> You are still able to enter dividend and interest income, but there is
> no way to enter stock/bond/fund trade sale and basis info other than
> paper forms or the upgrade.
>
> The big feature of H&R Deluxe for me is the import feature which lets
> me enter the name of my financial institution and tracking number and
> all trades made through that institution are imported into my return.
> If I had to manually remember and enter trade dates, sales amounts and
> basis amounts for 3 or 4 dozed trades, I would certainly miss something.

From reading this in several places, I'm starting to feel like
I'm the only one that keeps track with an Excel spread sheet. : )
Of course, my dad taught me to "write it in the book" whenever I added
gas or oil to the car.
I also keep track of every "shop or house related" item I buy (two
different workbooks). It's an interesting way to keep track of model
numbers, sources and phone numbers, satisfaction (or lack thereof) with
particular contractors, etc. Memories...




>
>
> "Socialism is a philosophy of failure,the creed of ignorance, and the
> gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery"
> -Winston Churchill

Unquestionably Confused wrote:
> The one that really frosted/frosts me is their payroll program. ...


They frosted me enough over this to keep me away from them for a long
time. I think they "crossed over the line" on this escapade. It's just
too bad that the changes don't affect a greater percentage of their
customers. Maybe that's part of their strategy--don't offend everyone
all at once..

On 01/18/2015 12:57 PM, Bill wrote:
...

> From reading this in several places, I'm starting to feel like I'm the
> only one that keeps track with an Excel spread sheet. : )
...

No, not by a long shot... :)

It was fine for personal and even in the beginning for the consulting
gig, but at the point came back to the farm as well, just too cumbersome
of a format. The real kicker with Excel is its strong suit as well; the
spreadsheet format is handy for a few simple cells, but it doesn't
scale; only way to do another is by duplication.

The accounting programs while in some ways a more complex interface,
have the advantage of the database format. QB has the ability to add
additional tax line items as you need them so the segregation ends up
coming out automagically at year end if you simply encode them at
planting time or whatever as seed, fertilizer, hired labor, whatever...

While it's also doable in Excel, the single database and the prepackaged
interface is the deciding factor in my case. I also use the ability to
read .iif import files and so have nearly automated many routine
transactions where only the date and amount need be updated in a text
file and then a whole batch of cost data can be updated very quickly
rather than transaction-by-transaction.

--

dpb wrote:
> On 01/18/2015 12:57 PM, Bill wrote:
> ...
>
>> From reading this in several places, I'm starting to feel like I'm the
>> only one that keeps track with an Excel spread sheet. : )
> ...
>
> No, not by a long shot... :)
>
> It was fine for personal and even in the beginning for the consulting
> gig, but at the point came back to the farm as well, just too
> cumbersome of a format. The real kicker with Excel is its strong suit
> as well; the spreadsheet format is handy for a few simple cells, but
> it doesn't scale; only way to do another is by duplication.
>
> The accounting programs while in some ways a more complex interface,
> have the advantage of the database format. QB has the ability to add
> additional tax line items as you need them so the segregation ends up
> coming out automagically at year end if you simply encode them at
> planting time or whatever as seed, fertilizer, hired labor, whatever...
>
> While it's also doable in Excel, the single database and the
> prepackaged interface is the deciding factor in my case. I also use
> the ability to read .iif import files and so have nearly automated
> many routine transactions where only the date and amount need be
> updated in a text file and then a whole batch of cost data can be
> updated very quickly rather than transaction-by-transaction.
>
> --

There is also Microsoft Access, but the learning curve is
significantlysteeper. Not so steepif you are already familiar with the
"relational database" paradigm, maybe quite a chore otherwise. Certainly
no more difficult than Google SketchUp.

On 01/19/2015 10:21 AM, Swingman wrote:
...

> Quit using QB's many years ago due to Intuit's questionable business
> practices; but still use Quicken and TT (Home and Business) because of
> convenience, ease of filing more than one return (I routinely do my
> youngest daughter's returns at no additional cost), and their audit
> insurance (which I've had to use a couple of times to my benefit).
>
> Basically I've learned that the way to sidestep Intuits forced upgrade
> shenanigans with their programs is to simply not use any of their online
> banking/accounting features, online access protocols being the choke
> point where they have you by the balls should they decide it is time for
> you to "upgrade" for their financial benefit.
...

Have to admit I've not fully investigated TT H&B; will it do any
requested form/schedule? Not that I'm at all likely to change over from
using the accountant for the actual filing at this point, just curious.

Agree, you _can_ cut Intuit out of the loop; it's just such a slimy way
of doing business I can't imagine _ever_ using them as a
resource-critical partner.

--

Swingman wrote:
>
>
> No way in hell would I suggest that useful relational database
> programing would equate to SU with regard to a reduced learning curve.

My experience was that I learned "one feature at a time" at
about the same rate. One doesn't need to know everything about either
of them to get something useful out of them. For instance, one doesn't
have to know Visual Basis (I don't. but I am more familiar with C++ and
Java). I was able to make my first small Access database in less time
than it took me to make a decent SU drawing. In my second (and third)
efforts I added forms for input and output. I'm sure knowing already
knowing SQL helped (tutorials helped too, just like with SU). I'm still
an Access novice, but I'm confident I could learn whatever I would need
to in order to make it work. However, as you know, there is more to
building a database than creating tables. Excel works fine for me for my
simple record-keeping purposes.

dpb wrote:
> ...
>
> Have to admit I've not fully investigated TT H&B; will it do any
> requested form/schedule? Not that I'm at all likely to change over
> from using the accountant for the actual filing at this point, just
> curious.

My understanding is that it will let you go on the Internet and print
out a Schedule D, fill it out with a pen, and attach is to the rest of
your return. You could update the appropriate blank for capital gains
via the software. You could no longer get a "review", or submit
electronically (nor be eligible for the "Amazon 10% Bonus" that they
started last year).



>
> --
>

Scott Lurndal wrote:
> dpb <[email protected]> writes:
>> On 01/19/2015 10:21 AM, Swingman wrote:
>> ...
>>
>>> Quit using QB's many years ago due to Intuit's questionable business
>>> practices; but still use Quicken and TT (Home and Business) because of
>>> convenience, ease of filing more than one return (I routinely do my
>>> youngest daughter's returns at no additional cost), and their audit
>>> insurance (which I've had to use a couple of times to my benefit).
>>>
>>> Basically I've learned that the way to sidestep Intuits forced upgrade
>>> shenanigans with their programs is to simply not use any of their online
>>> banking/accounting features, online access protocols being the choke
>>> point where they have you by the balls should they decide it is time for
>>> you to "upgrade" for their financial benefit.
>> ...
>>
>> Have to admit I've not fully investigated TT H&B; will it do any
>> requested form/schedule? Not that I'm at all likely to change over from
>> using the accountant for the actual filing at this point, just curious.
>>
>> Agree, you _can_ cut Intuit out of the loop; it's just such a slimy way
>> of doing business I can't imagine _ever_ using them as a
>> resource-critical partner.
> Isn't using Intuit's TT a convenience? After all, you can download,
> fill out, and mail in the IRS forms directly for the cost of postage
> and some time.
>
> Shouldn't intuit be able to monetize their programmers efforts?
>
> Doesn't the back of the box clearly state what each version
> of TT supports?
>
> Why all the complaints? Free enterprise, dontchaknow...

You can read many complaints at Amazon.com under the "most helpful
negative review" on the PC product.
That's the post that is getting all of the attention. No sense in me
duplicating them here. I will just say that Intuit's
conduct in this appears to me to be deliberate deception (fraud).

On 01/19/2015 12:03 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
...

>> Agree, you _can_ cut Intuit out of the loop; it's just such a slimy way
>> of doing business I can't imagine _ever_ using them as a
>> resource-critical partner.
>
> Isn't using Intuit's TT a convenience? After all, you can download,
> fill out, and mail in the IRS forms directly for the cost of postage
> and some time.
>
> Shouldn't intuit be able to monetize their programmers efforts?

Yes.

> Doesn't the back of the box clearly state what each version
> of TT supports?

Not sure about the "box", no. The problem people complain of here is
they change the content (always downward) from year-to-year without
making it clear up front.

> Why all the complaints? Free enterprise, dontchaknow...

Don't say the _can't_ do whatever they want; but they are _extremely_
aggressive and customer-belligerent imo. They put enough in my way wrt
QB as far as demanding continual upgrades I didn't need/want to keep
up-to-date that I quit years ago. I've only heard more dissatisfaction
with their practices since.

But, yes, in the end it's a customer's choice.

--

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 1/19/2015 1:31 PM, Bill wrote:
>
>> You can read many complaints at Amazon.com under the "most helpful
>> negative review" on the PC product.
>> That's the post that is getting all of the attention. No sense in me
>> duplicating them here. I will just say that Intuit's
>> conduct in this appears to me to be deliberate deception (fraud).
>>
>
> Sleazy, yes. Fraud? You won't prove it.

I certainly can't. But I hope some consumer group might see fit to try.
I think it would be interesting no matter the outcome.

On 01/19/2015 1:54 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
...

> I have some sympathy for people who blindly purchased TT deluxe expecting
> it to match the prior year capability set. I don't have much sympathy, tho, as it
> is obvious they didn't read the fine print. Caveat Emptor.

That's one attitude, certainly, and anybody who's done business with
Intuit should have learned the lesson very early on, but it's still
pretty "user belligerent" imo...

I decided years ago I personally wouldn't do business with Intuit any
further if there were any practical other choice....so far, have been
able to get by nicely...

--

On 01/19/2015 3:21 PM, dpb wrote:
> On 01/19/2015 1:54 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> ...
>
>> I have some sympathy for people who blindly purchased TT deluxe expecting
>> it to match the prior year capability set. I don't have much sympathy,
>> tho, as it
>> is obvious they didn't read the fine print. Caveat Emptor.
>
> That's one attitude, certainly, and anybody who's done business with
> Intuit should have learned the lesson very early on, but it's still
> pretty "user belligerent" imo...
>
> I decided years ago I personally wouldn't do business with Intuit any
> further if there were any practical other choice....so far, have been
> able to get by nicely...

And, I'll add, I'm perfectly willing to spend more $$ than I might on TT
(presuming I count nothing for my time) with my local CPA guy. Intuit
leaves such a distaste for their manner in doing business it's not just
the money, it's the attitude.

--

dpb wrote:
>
> And, I'll add, I'm perfectly willing to spend more $$ than I might on
> TT (presuming I count nothing for my time) with my local CPA guy.
> Intuit leaves such a distaste for their manner in doing business it's
> not just the money, it's the attitude.
>
> --

Someone over at Amazon (not me) wrote, "I'd rather do my taxes with a
hammer and chisel than use TT again!"
I got a laugh out of that--as that's about where I am with it. I'm
pleased to help point out the need for weasel-awareness, as necessary!

Leon wrote:
>
> But to bring this all in to perspective. I appreciate the fact that
> every one has his principals. But there comes a point that holding a
> grudge does not do you any good and that company which you may hold a
> grudge against is pretty much unaware of your grudge and looses less
> sleep than you do. Basically it does you more harm, " in some cases"
> to keep holding that grudge. You have to pick your battles.
>

I have "delegated" one of my battles. Help spread the word! ; )

http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-mh-intuits-catastrophic-turbotax-20150118-column.html

Leon wrote:
> On 1/20/2015 1:12 PM, Bill wrote:
>> Leon wrote:
>>>
>>> But to bring this all in to perspective. I appreciate the fact that
>>> every one has his principals. But there comes a point that holding a
>>> grudge does not do you any good and that company which you may hold a
>>> grudge against is pretty much unaware of your grudge and looses less
>>> sleep than you do. Basically it does you more harm, " in some cases"
>>> to keep holding that grudge. You have to pick your battles.
>>>
>>
>> I have "delegated" one of my battles. Help spread the word! ; )
>>
>> http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-mh-intuits-catastrophic-turbotax-20150118-column.html
>>
>>
>
>
> BTY, Did you get the Deluxe H&R Block version?
Yes. It includes state. I paid $26.99. It looks like you
already have the answer regarding Schedule C. I have not installed the
software yet.

> Did it include schedule C? According to their web site you should go
> Premium for that.

Leon wrote:
>
>
> There you go! I'm just saying, TT may still be the best choice next
> year even if they choose to not go back to the old way. Some will
> refuse to consider TT even if it may very well be in their best
> interests to do so.

YES, I'm one of those now!!! : )


>
> I'm right there with you on this but I will not let my feeling this
> year cloud my judgement next year. I'll look at all equally.

Leon wrote:
> Some will refuse to consider TT even if it may very well be in their
> best interests to do so.
>
> I'm right there with you on this but I will not let my feeling this
> year cloud my judgement next year. I'll look at all equally.

There are some "pessimists" who think TT may make their storage formats
somehow proprietary so that they
will not be importable by other software makers next year. This rat is
jumping ship this year! : ) YMMV!

On 1/20/2015 5:10 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On Mon, 19 Jan 2015 18:03:19 GMT, [email protected] (Scott Lurndal)
> wrote:
>
>
>
>>
>> Isn't using Intuit's TT a convenience? After all, you can download,
>> fill out, and mail in the IRS forms directly for the cost of postage
>> and some time.
>
>>
>> Shouldn't intuit be able to monetize their programmers efforts?
>
> Sure, no one is disputing that.
>
>
>> Doesn't the back of the box clearly state what each version
>> of TT supports?
>>
>> Why all the complaints? Free enterprise, dontchaknow...
>
> How clear is clear? When you've been buying a product for years you
> think every box of crackers is the same. Every quart of oil is still
> a quart. Every can of coffee is a pound. . . . or looks like it.

Exactly! The person new to TT should do the research, not the repeated
customer.


>
> If they raised the price a couple of bucks or it there was a sticker
> that said "Schedule C and D users now need the XXX Edition" there
> would be very few complaints.

And they send out enough e-mails that the warning could have easily have
mentioned which forms would be dropped from all of less than the top
tier version.


>
> What they did is perfectly legal, but was really poor marketing. Given
> the bad publicity, people that never used those schedules will be
> motivated to try a different software this year.

Ironically this year was the first that C was left out of all but the
top tier version. Last year as well as all years in the past C was
available in all versions. Now only in the top version.
Along with poor marketing this was really treating repeat customers
badly. Like you said if you have been buying "x" for 20 plus years and
that suddenly becomes x-y with out bring attention to the change that is
simply playing repeat customers as fools.

So bad is the fallout for TT they are offering the top tier version as a
free upgrade to everyone that purchased a lower tier.

The WSJ interview with TT's VP indicated that "all" reps at their toll
free number are authorized to give that free upgrade. My rep acted
interested in helping and made me wait a few minutes while he supposedly
checked and then said he could not offer the version with Schedule C for
free. I insisted in so many words, he put me on hold again for a few
more minutes, and came back to give me the top version for free. Even
then after the article in the WSJ they continued to resist. They have
authorization but still make you play the waiting game.

I will say that when Bill initially mentioned this I sorta defended TT
as their cover has always been deceiving and I thought he was
misunderstanding. He was right I was wrong, the foggy requirement chart
provided on all of the past years boxes as well as this years still
don't tell you what you need to know to buy the correct product.
According to the chart for the past 10 or so you have always needed to
buy the top tier for business purposes. That has not been true. I have
got along just fine with the Basic.

On 1/17/2015 10:43 PM, Doug Winterburn wrote:
> On 01/17/2015 09:16 PM, Leon wrote:
>> On 1/17/2015 3:19 PM, Bill wrote:
>>>
>>> Tis the season. In case you are a (long time) Turbo Tax Deluxe customer
>>> like I was, beware that it has changed this year and no longer supports
>>> schedules C and D (and more).
>>> Caveat Emptor (may I suggest H &R Deluxe?). Just thought you might
>>> like to know. There is an avalanche of 1-start reviews at Amazon.com.
>>> Tell your friends.
>>
>>
>> Are you sure about that? I have only been using Basic for years and it
>> has always had Schedule C and my 2014 Basic is ready for me to enter
>> data for business income and expenses. If you are going by the what the
>> cover says, it can be deceiving. And if you have the program be sure to
>> down load the latest updates. TurboTax has always been late in having
>> all of the forms ready at the beginning of the year.
>>
>> Either way TurboTax offers a 60 day money back guarantee, I would think
>> that dropping forms for those people that buy the same version year
>> after year might bring on a big retail refund, much more than they
>> profited from the sale of the product. Turbotax gives the refund, not
>> the retailer.
>>
>> Just some thoughts in case you did not buy the product and were going by
>> the outer advisory cover.
>
>
> <http://www.tampabay.com/news/business/personalfinance/turbotax-deluxe-is-less-deluxe-than-it-used-to-be-for-certain-users/2214044>
>
>


Ok, I misunderstood the complaint. I thought the complaint was that
there was no Schedule C. I have never used the TurboTaax
suggestions/support at all and why I eventually ended up buying Basic
for the last 10~15 years. Wow, thinking back, I quit using a CPA in
1985 when my TurboTax came to the same result to the penny. If I had a
question I used the actual IRS explanations. Those are the ones that
will hold up.

I can certainly see the problem if one depended on TurboTax to explain
and guide ones way through the returns. But given TurboTaxes
circumstances, all they really have to offer is advice. I'm not really
sure if they can simply charge for free forms and offer nothing else.

And FWIW this leaving out advice to get you to upgrade has been an on
going thing with TurboTax. When I first started using TurboTax 30+
years ago and before Intuit bought it there was only one version IIRC.

But, this is the way Intuit does business, it use to be that Quicken was
free back in the mid to late 80's and then they started charging $19.99
and that was much much more than the bug riddled program was worth. I
still wish Dollars&Sense was available. LOL

On 1/18/2015 9:47 AM, Leon wrote:
> On 1/18/2015 12:02 AM, Bill wrote:
>> Leon wrote:
>>> On 1/17/2015 10:41 PM, Bill wrote:
>>>> Leon wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Just some thoughts in case you did not buy the product and were going
>>>>> by the outer advisory cover.
>>>>
>>>> After spending a few hours understanding the details, I became
>>>> disgusted
>>>> and bought the H&R Block version for about $26.
>>>> I don't want to support them (Intuit).
>>>
>>>
>>> Well give us a report back on how you like H&R Block. As I mentioned
>>> to Doug, I misunderstood you and thought that you were saying that
>>> Schedule C was not included. I now understand that you said actual
>>> "guided support" of schedule C.
>>
>> Well, if you do use Deluxe to file a schedule C or D, without guided
>> support, then you cannot file electronically and the software will not
>> do a "review" (so I understand).
>>
>> I've done taxes by hand for more years than I have done them on a
>> computer, so I'll be okay. : )
>>
>>
>>
>>> I never used the support guides/advice anyway so I will probably be
>>> OK. But seriously I would like to hear how you like the other brand,
>>> I have never been a fan of Intuit.
>>
>
> Further investigating backs up exactly what you are saying. I am on the
> phone with TurboTax right now.
>
> Dissatisfied customers do have options, however. One is to call Intuit
> (at 800-445-1875, from 8 AM to 8 PM EST) and demand satisfaction.
> Meighan assured Forbes yesterday that every agent at that number “has
> discretion to do what’s necessary” to keep a customer— meaning, he said,
> they will give customers a free upgrade if they demand it, or a
> discounted one if that’s enough to keep them. (So, if you call, threaten
> to jump ship and don’t settle for less than an upgrade.)
>
>
> Block is offering dissatisfied TurboTax customers a free download of its
> Deluxe software, which normally sells for $44.95 and still allows
> E-filing of Schedules D and C. Gene King, Block’s director of
> communications, says TurboTax purchasers should send an email to
> [email protected] containing their name, email and phone number;
> whether they use a Windows or MAC operating system; and a scan of their
> store receipt for TurboTax or a copy of the email showing their TurboTax
> download code. In return, they’ll be sent a link good for one free
> download of H&R Block Deluxe + State. (Data you’ve entered in last
> year’s or this year’s version of TurboTax should be transferable.)
>
>
>
>
And FWIW I got a free up grade to TT Home and Business.

On 1/19/2015 1:54 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> dpb <[email protected]> writes:
>
>>> Doesn't the back of the box clearly state what each version
>>> of TT supports?
>>
>> Not sure about the "box", no. The problem people complain of here is
>> they change the content (always downward) from year-to-year without
>> making it clear up front.
>
> As it happens, the box has a nice chart on the back with checkmarks
> showing what each version of TT supports. And it has for at least
> the last decade.

Your are kidding right. A box the size of a DVD case with all the
information you need to know about all versions of the software.
FWIW last years box 2013 is almost identical to this years box 2014 when
it comes to comparing what is in Basic And Deluxe




> And, I see that amazon also shows the chart in the "From the Manufacturer"
> section.
>
> http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/aplusautomation/vendorimages/cb32acc1-7c8b-4167-abed-dce8a24bde50._V322476454_.jpg
>
> See the first box:
>
> "New - Some features are only available in these versions of TurboTax"
>
> I have some sympathy for people who blindly purchased TT deluxe expecting
> it to match the prior year capability set. I don't have much sympathy, tho, as it
> is obvious they didn't read the fine print. Caveat Emptor.
>
Scott, I believe there is a place for you at Intuit.

On 1/18/2015 10:12 AM, Leon wrote:

[snip]
>>
>> The big feature of H&R Deluxe for me is the import feature which lets me
>> enter the name of my financial institution and tracking number and all
>> trades made through that institution are imported into my return. If I
>> had to manually remember and enter trade dates, sales amounts and basis
>> amounts for 3 or 4 dozed trades, I would certainly miss something.
>
> IIRC this was available with TT Basic last year, at least with banking
> information from the previous year.
>
> But unless H&R Block follows TT's lead next year or TT reconsiders the
> shit storm they have created with their customers this year I'll be
> switching.
>
>
> Thank you Doug and BILL for bringing this to my attention.
>

TT and Intuit never learn from shit storms, they just seem to retreat
temporarily and then bring in another storm front.

I recall at one point they decided to require accountants to buy a copy
of their software for each and every client they (the CPA's) had. If
you aren't aware, the way it worked was the business kept their own set
of books using a purchased copy of QuickBooks and then could send a file
on monthly or semi-monthly basis, etc. to their accountant who would
handle the necessary tax reports, review what the businessman was doing,
etc. A small firm could easily have dozens of clients using QB and
Intuit decided they wanted more money and so... They backed away
quickly when the accountants yelled and threatened to move clients to
other software programs.

The one that really frosted/frosts me is their payroll program. It used
to be that while you did all the payroll accounting yourself, the tax
table updates were provided (usually quarterly) on a 3.5" diskette.
Nothing fancy here, just the state and federal tax rates which change
from time to time. For the 3.5" disks they charged like $30.00 per year
and would mail them out. Naturally, they were losing money on since the
disks weren't keyed into the program serial or EIN of the business and
thus you could "share."

Then they changed it to electronic downloading of the updated tables,
keyed into your EIN (If you happen to have two businesses you now pay
twice) and raised the rates astronomically. It was upwards of $350 a
year ago. Now they charge a monthly fee, per employee and you still do
the work. They've added e-filing but it's still a rip off.

There is no way to enter the tax tables yourself. It's their way or the
highway.

Still not enough for them, now they insist on buying a new copy of the
program every couple of years and discontinue payroll services for the
older versions. Trust me, accounting ain't changed all that much over
the years, taxes have but you can make adjustments in the journals for
most anything that comes up. The point is that if you need payroll in
you bookkeeping, Intuit just tells you to bend over and grab your
ankles. Azzholes!

On 1/19/2015 10:49 AM, dpb wrote:
> On 01/19/2015 10:21 AM, Swingman wrote:


> Have to admit I've not fully investigated TT H&B; will it do any
> requested form/schedule? Not that I'm at all likely to change over from
> using the accountant for the actual filing at this point, just curious.

Have not finished 2014 taxes to date, but have not had a problem with
any forms (mostly those rental property/investment related) I've been in
need of to complete a return when using TT/H&B thus far.

> Agree, you _can_ cut Intuit out of the loop; it's just such a slimy way
> of doing business I can't imagine _ever_ using them as a
> resource-critical partner.

Yep, then again, I try to _use_ them to my benefit, instead of them
using me, so far that has worked.

That said, I would not recommend Intuit to anyone not having the
wherewithal to build the wheel on their own if need be.

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)