I'm near my last coat for a kitchen table refinishing job. I'm using
semi-gloss polycrylic (water-based minwax product) and of course I want
a nice clear smooth finish. SWMBO doesn't want anything remotely
"toxic" on the table top (like wax) because she's doesn't want it
coming off on our food. Being I don't want to use a wax product for
the final stage, is it better not to sand at all or is there a way I
can do a super fine sand and somehow buff out to a wax-like final
shine? If so, what kind of sand paper, steel wool, or wet/dry paper
should I use for best results. I think I saw a 1500 wet/dry paper
somewhere.... And what do I use to buff-out at the end, if that becomes
necessary.
Thanks for the advice.
On Thu, 08 Sep 2005 11:14:22 +0200, the blithe spirit Juergen
Hannappel <[email protected]> clearly indicated:
>[email protected] writes:
>
>> I'm near my last coat for a kitchen table refinishing job. I'm using
>> semi-gloss polycrylic (water-based minwax product) and of course I want
>> a nice clear smooth finish. SWMBO doesn't want anything remotely
>> "toxic" on the table top (like wax) because she's doesn't want it
>
>Easy: Remove the polycrylic,
Easy: Remove the grease from the paper towel,
Easy: Remove the brazing from the repaired cast iron,
Easy: Remove the nail from the tire,
The problem, Juergen, is that the damage has already been done.
-------------------------------------------------------------
give me The Luxuries Of Life * http://www.diversify.com
i can live without the necessities * 2 Tee collections online
-------------------------------------------------------------
I agree - I know it will be hard to convince your wife of this, but wax
isn't toxic to begin with, and after it hardens (if it's carnuba wax or
something else that hardens) there isn't anything at all coming off.
In fact, carnuba wax is used to make the shiny coating on apples, it is
an ingredient of lipstick, and it is used to coat pills in the
pharmaceutical industry. Personally, I'd rather eat off a wax-coated
table than a polycrylic table. If it is a carnuba-based wax, it came
from a palm tree, rather than a synthetic chemical lab somewhere.
Good luck and let us know what you decide,
Andy
Thanks everyone for the advice. I admit the wax concern is a little
over-sensitive, but there's the MBO part.. (she doesn't like the wax on
the apples either) and we do have a todler so that can make for over
reacting.
I'll check out Watrlox and some of the other wax suggestions. You'd
think they make some kind of 100% non-toxic furniture wax. Isn't
there some way to buff out a shine without wax or is that just not
possible?
David wrote:
> Jois wrote:
>
> > <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> >
> >>Okay, maybe I'll do some experimenting.
> >>
> >>Thanks for the help.
> >>
> >
> >
> > I hope you didn't find the responses here too depressing! These guys may
> > complain that they like the woodworking but not the finishing and then go in
> > for the most elaborate, fancy, or classic, or difficult finishes (well, some
> > of them) and just plain old polycrylic or polyurethane works perfectly. I
> > use both/either and dumb old white china bristle brushes and Minwax brand in
> > the lowest gloss I can find. I like three coats on surface that get a lot
> > of hard use, never wax, and follow most of the directions on the cans. I've
> > done stairs, table tops, kitchen island tops, toys, benches, and most of my
> > arms and legs this way, looks great.
> >
> > Put on the third coat and let the table rest for a week and then use it.
> >
> > Josie
> >
> >
> >
> You like the results of BRUSHED on Minwax poly? Did I read that
> correctly? You must be waaay better at wielding a brush than I am.
> Color me an HVLP guy. :)
>
> Dave
I would agree with Josie, I do pretty much the same and get very good
results. I use the foam brushes most of the time with the poly and get
a really fine finish. The method to my maddness is to keep a very wet
edge and then let it site for the required time between dry coats,
sanding in between. I have not been able to get as good of a finish
when doing coats after a couple hours of drying. Always find areas
that are too tacky. It takes me several days to reach a good finish
allowing a complete drying between coats.
vdubbs wrote:
> David wrote:
>
>>Jois wrote:
>>
>>
>>><[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Okay, maybe I'll do some experimenting.
>>>>
>>>>Thanks for the help.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>I hope you didn't find the responses here too depressing! These guys may
>>>complain that they like the woodworking but not the finishing and then go in
>>>for the most elaborate, fancy, or classic, or difficult finishes (well, some
>>>of them) and just plain old polycrylic or polyurethane works perfectly. I
>>>use both/either and dumb old white china bristle brushes and Minwax brand in
>>>the lowest gloss I can find. I like three coats on surface that get a lot
>>>of hard use, never wax, and follow most of the directions on the cans. I've
>>>done stairs, table tops, kitchen island tops, toys, benches, and most of my
>>>arms and legs this way, looks great.
>>>
>>>Put on the third coat and let the table rest for a week and then use it.
>>>
>>>Josie
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>You like the results of BRUSHED on Minwax poly? Did I read that
>>correctly? You must be waaay better at wielding a brush than I am.
>>Color me an HVLP guy. :)
>>
>>Dave
>
>
> I would agree with Josie, I do pretty much the same and get very good
> results. I use the foam brushes most of the time with the poly and get
> a really fine finish. The method to my maddness is to keep a very wet
> edge and then let it site for the required time between dry coats,
> sanding in between. I have not been able to get as good of a finish
> when doing coats after a couple hours of drying. Always find areas
> that are too tacky. It takes me several days to reach a good finish
> allowing a complete drying between coats.
>
waiting days for a finish to dry taxes my patience. That's one of the
benefits of spraying lacquer or waterborne polys and lacquers. I can
recoat in less than 40 minutes. Sometimes I've recoated in 20-25
minutes. I live in a reasonably dry climate--Calif. I'm sure my
woodworking brethren in Vegas or Phoenix can beat my recoat times quite
handily. Another advantage to what I use for finishes is that I never
see dust in the finish like I do with slower drying stuff like solvent
based poly. I DO recognize that poly is tough.
dave
On Tue, 06 Sep 2005 17:54:50 GMT, the blithe spirit B a r r y
<[email protected]> clearly indicated:
>[email protected] wrote:
>> SWMBO doesn't want anything remotely
>> "toxic" on the table top (like wax) because she's doesn't want it
>> coming off on our food.
>
>Plates.
And knives, sporks, foons, placemats, or tablecloth.
MDP, try Waterlox on the table after thoroughly cleaning it with
a good set of solvents. 6 or 7 rubbed-on coats should do it nicely.
I used Watco on my a dining table in '98 and AFAIK, it's still
going strong. Mom sold it after Dad died and she moved to NorCal 2
years ago. No, I didn't fill the pores and didn't wet-sand at all.
Waterlox would have worked even better and the varnish + tung oil
seal it nice and watertight.
-------------------------------
Iguana: The other green meat!
-------------------------------
http://diversify.com Comprehensive Website Development
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Okay, maybe I'll do some experimenting.
>
> Thanks for the help.
>
I hope you didn't find the responses here too depressing! These guys may
complain that they like the woodworking but not the finishing and then go in
for the most elaborate, fancy, or classic, or difficult finishes (well, some
of them) and just plain old polycrylic or polyurethane works perfectly. I
use both/either and dumb old white china bristle brushes and Minwax brand in
the lowest gloss I can find. I like three coats on surface that get a lot
of hard use, never wax, and follow most of the directions on the cans. I've
done stairs, table tops, kitchen island tops, toys, benches, and most of my
arms and legs this way, looks great.
Put on the third coat and let the table rest for a week and then use it.
Josie
[email protected] wrote:
> SWMBO doesn't want anything remotely
> "toxic" on the table top (like wax) because she's doesn't want it
> coming off on our food.
Plates.
"Andy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I agree - I know it will be hard to convince your wife of this, but wax
> isn't toxic to begin with, and after it hardens (if it's carnuba wax or
> something else that hardens) there isn't anything at all coming off.
> In fact, carnuba wax is used to make the shiny coating on apples, it is
> an ingredient of lipstick, and it is used to coat pills in the
> pharmaceutical industry. Personally, I'd rather eat off a wax-coated
> table than a polycrylic table. If it is a carnuba-based wax, it came
> from a palm tree, rather than a synthetic chemical lab somewhere.
> Good luck and let us know what you decide,
> Andy
>
But wax will mark instantly with every wet glass placed on it.
Jois wrote:
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>Okay, maybe I'll do some experimenting.
>>
>>Thanks for the help.
>>
>
>
> I hope you didn't find the responses here too depressing! These guys may
> complain that they like the woodworking but not the finishing and then go in
> for the most elaborate, fancy, or classic, or difficult finishes (well, some
> of them) and just plain old polycrylic or polyurethane works perfectly. I
> use both/either and dumb old white china bristle brushes and Minwax brand in
> the lowest gloss I can find. I like three coats on surface that get a lot
> of hard use, never wax, and follow most of the directions on the cans. I've
> done stairs, table tops, kitchen island tops, toys, benches, and most of my
> arms and legs this way, looks great.
>
> Put on the third coat and let the table rest for a week and then use it.
>
> Josie
>
>
>
You like the results of BRUSHED on Minwax poly? Did I read that
correctly? You must be waaay better at wielding a brush than I am.
Color me an HVLP guy. :)
Dave
[email protected] wrote in news:1126065505.164762.108030
@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com:
> Thanks everyone for the advice. I admit the wax concern is a little
> over-sensitive, but there's the MBO part.. (she doesn't like the wax on
> the apples either) and we do have a todler so that can make for over
> reacting.
>
> I'll check out Watrlox and some of the other wax suggestions. You'd
> think they make some kind of 100% non-toxic furniture wax. Isn't
> there some way to buff out a shine without wax or is that just not
> possible?
>
Waterlox is a varnish, and not what you want to be using over the
Polycrylic. It would almost certainly peel off. I believe Larry was
suggesting it as the primary finish, for which it is quite well suited.
Patriarch,
deviously thinking that some waxes are labeled as 'polish'...
Larry Jaques <novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
<snip>
>>Waterlox is a varnish, and not what you want to be using over the
>>Polycrylic. It would almost certainly peel off. I believe Larry was
>>suggesting it as the primary finish, for which it is quite well suited.
>
> Your assumption was correct, Glenn. I must have jumped in late and had
> -no idea- he had previously "wrapped it in Saran." There's seldom a
> fix for that 'cept more poly. Maybe, if he roughed it up enough, a
> clear epoxy finish would stick to it.
>
24 grit? Or maybe 36? I LOVE the sanding adapter for the 4.5" low angle
grinder. ;-)
On Wed, 07 Sep 2005 10:07:13 -0500, the blithe spirit Patriarch
<[email protected]> clearly indicated:
>[email protected] wrote in news:1126065505.164762.108030
>@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com:
>
>> Thanks everyone for the advice. I admit the wax concern is a little
>> over-sensitive, but there's the MBO part.. (she doesn't like the wax on
>> the apples either) and we do have a todler so that can make for over
>> reacting.
>>
>> I'll check out Watrlox and some of the other wax suggestions. You'd
>> think they make some kind of 100% non-toxic furniture wax. Isn't
>> there some way to buff out a shine without wax or is that just not
>> possible?
>>
>
>Waterlox is a varnish, and not what you want to be using over the
>Polycrylic. It would almost certainly peel off. I believe Larry was
>suggesting it as the primary finish, for which it is quite well suited.
Your assumption was correct, Glenn. I must have jumped in late and had
-no idea- he had previously "wrapped it in Saran." There's seldom a
fix for that 'cept more poly. Maybe, if he roughed it up enough, a
clear epoxy finish would stick to it.
-------------------------------------------------------------
give me The Luxuries Of Life * http://www.diversify.com
i can live without the necessities * 2 Tee collections online
-------------------------------------------------------------
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Thanks everyone for the advice. I admit the wax concern is a little
> over-sensitive, but there's the MBO part.. (she doesn't like the wax on
> the apples either) and we do have a todler so that can make for over
> reacting.
>
> I'll check out Watrlox and some of the other wax suggestions. You'd
> think they make some kind of 100% non-toxic furniture wax. Isn't
> there some way to buff out a shine without wax or is that just not
> possible?
>
I guess I missed something. Why didn't you use gloss if you wanted a shine?
Jois
"David" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> vdubbs wrote:
>
> > David wrote:
> >
> >>Jois wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>><[email protected]> wrote in message
> >>>news:[email protected]...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Okay, maybe I'll do some experimenting.
> >>>>
> >>>>Thanks for the help.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>I hope you didn't find the responses here too depressing! These guys
may
> >>>complain that they like the woodworking but not the finishing and then
go in
> >>>for the most elaborate, fancy, or classic, or difficult finishes (well,
some
> >>>of them) and just plain old polycrylic or polyurethane works perfectly.
I
> >>>use both/either and dumb old white china bristle brushes and Minwax
brand in
> >>>the lowest gloss I can find. I like three coats on surface that get a
lot
> >>>of hard use, never wax, and follow most of the directions on the cans.
I've
> >>>done stairs, table tops, kitchen island tops, toys, benches, and most
of my
> >>>arms and legs this way, looks great.
> >>>
> >>>Put on the third coat and let the table rest for a week and then use
it.
> >>>
> >>>Josie
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>You like the results of BRUSHED on Minwax poly? Did I read that
> >>correctly? You must be waaay better at wielding a brush than I am.
> >>Color me an HVLP guy. :)
> >>
> >>Dave
> >
> >
> > I would agree with Josie, I do pretty much the same and get very good
> > results. I use the foam brushes most of the time with the poly and get
> > a really fine finish. The method to my maddness is to keep a very wet
> > edge and then let it site for the required time between dry coats,
> > sanding in between. I have not been able to get as good of a finish
> > when doing coats after a couple hours of drying. Always find areas
> > that are too tacky. It takes me several days to reach a good finish
> > allowing a complete drying between coats.
> >
> waiting days for a finish to dry taxes my patience. That's one of the
> benefits of spraying lacquer or waterborne polys and lacquers. I can
> recoat in less than 40 minutes. Sometimes I've recoated in 20-25
> minutes. I live in a reasonably dry climate--Calif. I'm sure my
> woodworking brethren in Vegas or Phoenix can beat my recoat times quite
> handily. Another advantage to what I use for finishes is that I never
> see dust in the finish like I do with slower drying stuff like solvent
> based poly. I DO recognize that poly is tough.
>
> dave
I live in VA (often humid) and I'm always thinking *this* will be *the*
time the polyurethane will never ever dry. Like vdubbs I keep a wet edge,
work carefully and let the finish dry, could be a couple of days. I don't
have brush marks. Nor do I have a paint/varnish room - I often do finishing
in the kitchen and then set things to dry in the dining room which has a
door to keep away dust, poodles, and Shelties. I don't think I'll ever have
a space for a spray set up. I often use wipe on poly for surfaces
perpendicular to the floor cause I'm concerned about drips and runs.
Josie
On Wed, 07 Sep 2005 15:14:30 -0500, the blithe spirit Patriarch
<[email protected]> clearly indicated:
>Larry Jaques <novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote in
>news:[email protected]:
><snip>
>
>>>Waterlox is a varnish, and not what you want to be using over the
>>>Polycrylic. It would almost certainly peel off. I believe Larry was
>>>suggesting it as the primary finish, for which it is quite well suited.
>>
>> Your assumption was correct, Glenn. I must have jumped in late and had
>> -no idea- he had previously "wrapped it in Saran." There's seldom a
>> fix for that 'cept more poly. Maybe, if he roughed it up enough, a
>> clear epoxy finish would stick to it.
>>
>
>24 grit? Or maybe 36? I LOVE the sanding adapter for the 4.5" low angle
>grinder. ;-)
OK, Saran comes off with 24 grit taking 1/4" of meat off the top.
I'll give you that. ;)
-------------------------------------------------------------
give me The Luxuries Of Life * http://www.diversify.com
i can live without the necessities * 2 Tee collections online
-------------------------------------------------------------
[email protected] wrote:
> Isn't
> there some way to buff out a shine without wax or is that just not
> possible?
Of course it's possible, done all the time. One rubs out by hand with a
felt pad, abrasives such as rottenstone and a lubricant. You can use
auto body rubbing compound too. You can also use a wool pad on a drill
to do the polishing but it is easy to cut through.
--
dadiOH
____________________________
dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
On Thu, 08 Sep 2005 08:32:59 -0700, Larry Jaques
<novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote:
>On Thu, 08 Sep 2005 11:14:22 +0200, the blithe spirit Juergen
>Hannappel <[email protected]> clearly indicated:
>
>>[email protected] writes:
>>
>>> I'm near my last coat for a kitchen table refinishing job. I'm using
>>> semi-gloss polycrylic (water-based minwax product) and of course I want
>>> a nice clear smooth finish. SWMBO doesn't want anything remotely
>>> "toxic" on the table top (like wax) because she's doesn't want it
>>
>>Easy: Remove the polycrylic,
>
>Easy: Remove the grease from the paper towel,
>
>Easy: Remove the brazing from the repaired cast iron,
>
>Easy: Remove the nail from the tire,
>
>The problem, Juergen, is that the damage has already been done.
Well, there's the additional problem that Juergen responded to a
request for "alternative to wax" with "how to do wax". Sheesh.
Lee
On Thu, 08 Sep 2005 23:21:59 -0500, the blithe spirit Australopithecus
scobis <[email protected]> clearly indicated:
>On Thu, 08 Sep 2005 21:51:16 -0400, Jois wrote:
>
>> I often use wipe on poly for surfaces
>> perpendicular to the floor cause I'm concerned about drips and runs.
Somebody show her how to snip her messages. (83 lines quoted for a
2-line reply. <tsk tsk tsk> )
>I just tip things over.
<g>
>--
>"Let's stand him on his head! Look, it's morning!"
"Uldithia. Uldithia!" "Osiris, my friend, what has happened to your
nose?"
[email protected] wrote:
> I'm near my last coat for a kitchen table refinishing job. I'm using
> semi-gloss polycrylic (water-based minwax product) and of course I want
> a nice clear smooth finish. SWMBO doesn't want anything remotely
> "toxic" on the table top (like wax) because she's doesn't want it
> coming off on our food. Being I don't want to use a wax product for
> the final stage, is it better not to sand at all or is there a way I
> can do a super fine sand and somehow buff out to a wax-like final
> shine? If so, what kind of sand paper, steel wool, or wet/dry paper
> should I use for best results. I think I saw a 1500 wet/dry paper
> somewhere.... And what do I use to buff-out at the end, if that becomes
> necessary.
>
> Thanks for the advice.
>
how about not laying your food directly on the table? I've never heard
of a case of "waxed table syndrome", so I think your wife's concern is
way overblown. :) Seriously.
Dave
[email protected] writes:
> I'm near my last coat for a kitchen table refinishing job. I'm using
> semi-gloss polycrylic (water-based minwax product) and of course I want
> a nice clear smooth finish. SWMBO doesn't want anything remotely
> "toxic" on the table top (like wax) because she's doesn't want it
Easy: Remove the polycrylic, melt beeswax )non-toxic, you find it in
many foodstuffs and pills), mix in linseed oil (the pure kind from the
salad aisle), brush onto table top, wait a few minutes, rub off exess.
Repeat after one day, for several days.
--
Dr. Juergen Hannappel http://lisa2.physik.uni-bonn.de/~hannappe
mailto:[email protected] Phone: +49 228 73 2447 FAX ... 7869
Physikalisches Institut der Uni Bonn Nussallee 12, D-53115 Bonn, Germany
CERN: Phone: +412276 76461 Fax: ..77930 Bat. 892-R-A13 CH-1211 Geneve 23
"Larry Jaques" <novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
[snip]
>
> Somebody show her how to snip her messages. (83 lines quoted for a
> 2-line reply. <tsk tsk tsk> )
>
>
I know, I know! It's from changing groups where prolonged debate requires
you to quote the whole mess or you catch it and here where it isn't so
disgustingly picky..
Josie
Jois wrote:
> "David" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>vdubbs wrote:
>>
>>
>>>David wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Jois wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>><[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>>>news:[email protected]...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Okay, maybe I'll do some experimenting.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Thanks for the help.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>I hope you didn't find the responses here too depressing! These guys
>
> may
>
>>>>>complain that they like the woodworking but not the finishing and then
>
> go in
>
>>>>>for the most elaborate, fancy, or classic, or difficult finishes (well,
>
> some
>
>>>>>of them) and just plain old polycrylic or polyurethane works perfectly.
>
> I
>
>>>>>use both/either and dumb old white china bristle brushes and Minwax
>
> brand in
>
>>>>>the lowest gloss I can find. I like three coats on surface that get a
>
> lot
>
>>>>>of hard use, never wax, and follow most of the directions on the cans.
>
> I've
>
>>>>>done stairs, table tops, kitchen island tops, toys, benches, and most
>
> of my
>
>>>>>arms and legs this way, looks great.
>>>>>
>>>>>Put on the third coat and let the table rest for a week and then use
>
> it.
>
>>>>>Josie
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>You like the results of BRUSHED on Minwax poly? Did I read that
>>>>correctly? You must be waaay better at wielding a brush than I am.
>>>>Color me an HVLP guy. :)
>>>>
>>>>Dave
>>>
>>>
>>>I would agree with Josie, I do pretty much the same and get very good
>>>results. I use the foam brushes most of the time with the poly and get
>>>a really fine finish. The method to my maddness is to keep a very wet
>>>edge and then let it site for the required time between dry coats,
>>>sanding in between. I have not been able to get as good of a finish
>>>when doing coats after a couple hours of drying. Always find areas
>>>that are too tacky. It takes me several days to reach a good finish
>>>allowing a complete drying between coats.
>>>
>>
>>waiting days for a finish to dry taxes my patience. That's one of the
>>benefits of spraying lacquer or waterborne polys and lacquers. I can
>>recoat in less than 40 minutes. Sometimes I've recoated in 20-25
>>minutes. I live in a reasonably dry climate--Calif. I'm sure my
>>woodworking brethren in Vegas or Phoenix can beat my recoat times quite
>>handily. Another advantage to what I use for finishes is that I never
>>see dust in the finish like I do with slower drying stuff like solvent
>>based poly. I DO recognize that poly is tough.
>>
>>dave
>
>
> I live in VA (often humid) and I'm always thinking *this* will be *the*
> time the polyurethane will never ever dry. Like vdubbs I keep a wet edge,
> work carefully and let the finish dry, could be a couple of days. I don't
> have brush marks. Nor do I have a paint/varnish room - I often do finishing
> in the kitchen and then set things to dry in the dining room which has a
> door to keep away dust, poodles, and Shelties. I don't think I'll ever have
> a space for a spray set up. I often use wipe on poly for surfaces
> perpendicular to the floor cause I'm concerned about drips and runs.
>
> Josie
>
>
My "spray set-up" is my woodshop, which is (was) a 2 car garage.
There's very little over spray with a properly setup HVLP. I turn the
pressure down a bit from max, keep the width to an appropriate setting
and spray away. I've recently stopped draping all my equipment with
sheets, because there really isn't any appreciable overspray. The
downside is that the HVLP stuff cost more than a grand. But hey, it's
"just" money! :)
Dave