Well, I am finally back, yes its been awhile but I finally got my new house
complete with 3 car (err, I mean GREAT BIG workshop) garage. I went to
Woodcraft and bought a mobility base for my table saw today and installed
it. Though I have not yet had chance to use the saw as I am still putting it
back together. My question is: How do these mobility bases fair? Are there
any inherent problems with them. I did buy a better one , 4 corners with a
3/4 plywood for support. THe locks seem to work well enough. Anyway, I got
the base installed on the saw and found a large open level spot on the floor
and leveled the entire saw to that specific area. I figued that the best
spot would be middle of the bay about 10 ft from the door.
Another question that I have : The garage IS heated, but with radiators that
are supplied from the house oil boiler, problem is this is expensive ( went
through 600.00 worth of oil in a month and a half). I do have a Volgesang
Boxwood stove that I would like to use. Since this is also our garage and
there will be fuel in the garage, will having this stove present a problem.
I do also work on vehicles BUT nothing major. One friend mentioned that the
fumes (if any) could be ignited by the stove when in operation. ANY
THOUGHTS?
Searcher-
Mike Berger wrote:
> Ah, the old "it works for me so it must be ok for everybody".
> We have had several fires in this community attributed to
> garage-based gas water heaters igniting gasoline vapor. Just
> because your garage hasn't burnt down doesn't mean it's safe,
> or a good idea.
>
> You don't need open cans of fuel for fuel vapor. A lawnmower,
> weed trimmer, or fuel-rich mixture when starting your car will
> do it.
>
> David wrote:
>
>> Gee, I used to actually park vehicles in my garage that has a water
>> heater and gas drier with pilot lights. The house (and attached
>> garage) are still standing after 34 years. Amazing!
>>
>> I presume you aren't going to be leaving open cans of fuel lying around?
oh, so a garage is not a good place to park a vehicle? LOL! I never
said that a gas LEAKING vehicle, parked inside a garage, was a safe
thing, NOW DID I? So 100 million people need to immediately remove
their vehicles from their garages. You are too much!
Dave
"George E. Cawthon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:a%[email protected]...
> Mike Marlow wrote:
> > "Mike Berger" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> >
> >
> >>Ah, the old "it works for me so it must be ok for everybody".
> >>We have had several fires in this community attributed to
> >>garage-based gas water heaters igniting gasoline vapor. Just
> >>because your garage hasn't burnt down doesn't mean it's safe,
> >>or a good idea.
> >
> >
> > Now that I just have to question. I was in the fire service for a lot
of
> > years and *never* responded to a fire from this cause. You have had
> > "several"? Bull. So... how much gasoline vapor was necessay? How big
was
> > the explosion - because you do know, right, that those fumes wouldn't
just
> > burn - they would explode.
> >
> >
> >>You don't need open cans of fuel for fuel vapor. A lawnmower,
> >>weed trimmer, or fuel-rich mixture when starting your car will
> >>do it.
> >
> >
> > You clearly don't have a clue about this Mike. What is the
concentration of
> > fume that your lawn mower will generate? Here's hint - you can leave
the
> > gas cap completely off the tank and not evaporate enough gas fast enough
to
> > cause a problem with a water heater or furnace.
> >
>
> It's the good old newgroup symptom. Thanks Mike
> Marlow for providing some real job experience to
> dispell some fear mongering.
Ouch, though. Just now re-reading my own comments above - they sound much
harsher than I had intended. Another good old newsgroup symptom. Sometimes
even when you read them through before sending the post, you don't catch
everything. My apologies to the other Mike - I did not intend to come
across so harsh. I do agree with George though about things in newsgroups
taking on a life of their own though. It's kind of like the dust collector
explosion thing...
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
"Mike Berger" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Ah, the old "it works for me so it must be ok for everybody".
> We have had several fires in this community attributed to
> garage-based gas water heaters igniting gasoline vapor. Just
> because your garage hasn't burnt down doesn't mean it's safe,
> or a good idea.
Now that I just have to question. I was in the fire service for a lot of
years and *never* responded to a fire from this cause. You have had
"several"? Bull. So... how much gasoline vapor was necessay? How big was
the explosion - because you do know, right, that those fumes wouldn't just
burn - they would explode.
>
> You don't need open cans of fuel for fuel vapor. A lawnmower,
> weed trimmer, or fuel-rich mixture when starting your car will
> do it.
You clearly don't have a clue about this Mike. What is the concentration of
fume that your lawn mower will generate? Here's hint - you can leave the
gas cap completely off the tank and not evaporate enough gas fast enough to
cause a problem with a water heater or furnace.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
On Sat, 07 Jan 2006 09:31:59 -0500, Odinn <[email protected]> wrote:
>On 1/5/2006 7:00 PM Mike Berger mumbled something about the following:
>> Ah, the old "it works for me so it must be ok for everybody".
>> We have had several fires in this community attributed to
>> garage-based gas water heaters igniting gasoline vapor. Just
>> because your garage hasn't burnt down doesn't mean it's safe,
>> or a good idea.
>>
>> You don't need open cans of fuel for fuel vapor. A lawnmower,
>> weed trimmer, or fuel-rich mixture when starting your car will
>> do it.
>>
>> David wrote:
>>
>>> Gee, I used to actually park vehicles in my garage that has a water
>>> heater and gas drier with pilot lights. The house (and attached
>>> garage) are still standing after 34 years. Amazing!
>>>
>>> I presume you aren't going to be leaving open cans of fuel lying around?
>
>Must be an awful lot of gas fumes then since gasoline needs approx a
>14:1 ratio for combustion (litte more, little less works, but not a
>whole lot more/less). With a typical 2 car garage having about 3000 cu
>ft of space, that means it would need about 200 cu ft of fumes, which is
>an awful lot of gasoline to create that amount of fumes. Remember, it
>isn't gasoline itself that is flammable, it's the fumes.
That's combustion. A lot of hydrocarbon vapors have a LEL (lower explosion limit) concentration of
about 1 to 1.5 percent by volume in air. Let's use 1 percent as an example since I don't have a
calculator and will be doing the limited math in my head. That 1 percent is about 30 cubic feet of
vapor in your garage.
One pound mole of a material occupies about 360 cu ft at standard temperature and pressure. So 30
cubic feet is about 1/12 of a pound mole. Something like benzene has a molecular weight of 78, so a
pound mole of benzene weighs 78 lbs. 1/12 of 78 is about 6.5 lbs, which is just about a gallon of
benzene. (I think benzene is about 6.2 lbs/gal, but not sure on this.)
The other consideration is just where you knock the can over in relationship to the ignition source.
If it is at the far end of the garage, a gallon of benzene will probably not reach LEL near the
pilot light. Knock it over next to the pilot light, and you'll be doing your impression of a
flaming marshmallow.
Science, the other red meat.
Regards,
Roy
"Mike Berger" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Typical atheist -- I haven't seen it so it doesn't exist :-)
Or... I base my comments on some amount of knowledge (well... sometimes)
>
> Ok, here are some citations for you:
> <http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/05/14/tech/main617547.shtml>
Cell phones - and they have precisely *what* to do with what we were
discussing. They are a problem at gas pumps, as are ladie's stockings, and
truck be liners, but pumping as is a lot different than the garage scenario
we were discussing.
>
<http://www.sptimes.com/2004/09/29/Northpinellas/Stored_gas_in_sealed_.shtml
>
Fumes so strong that the idiot closed the windows so it wouldn't get into
the house. But... the fool didn't think to open a door to air the place
out. Quite an extreme difference from what we were talking about... again.
> <http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml03/03158.html>
Little boy burned when *gas spilled* near the water heater.
>
> Here's a quote from the US Consumer Products Safety Commission:
>
> "Gas water heater ignition of flammable vapors is involved in nearly 800
> residential fires, resulting in an average of five deaths and 130
> injuries annually, according to commission estimates."
You should have included the rest of the quote...
" The fires typically occur when consumers use flammable liquids, usually
gasoline, for cleaning purposes, or when a flammable liquid leaks or is
spilled near the water heater. When the vapors come in contact with the
appliance's burner or pilot light, the vapors ignite, causing a severe
flashback fire."
Included in those statistics is propane leaks which ignite from pilot
lights - or even from... turning on a light switch.
>
> Despite your experience, it appears to be more common than you think.
Or less common than you think. It does pay to read what it actually
written, and not look for what you want to see in it.
I stand by my original question of your statement that these are common
around you.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
David wrote:
>
> Gee, I used to actually park vehicles in my garage that has a water
> heater and gas drier with pilot lights. The house (and attached garage)
> are still standing after 34 years. Amazing!
Interesting point.
Here in New England, our furnaces and water heaters are typically in the
basement. We worry about sawdust and fumes, but never hear of a problem.
In Florida, where construction is probably similar to Dave's area, every
one of my relatives has a gas-fired furnace and water heater in the
garage. The same garage contains cars, lawn mowers, weed wackers, dirt
bikes, and 99 other gasoline powered devices.
"Mark & Juanita" wrote in message
> approaches the Mythbusters take in the design of their experiments. One
> of the problems is that they can usually only do one instance of their
> experiment, so they don't get statistically representative samples.
Sometimes that is more than sufficient ... stubbing your toe, hitting your
thumb with a hammer, laying a fat girl ...
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 12/13/05
No, your right, I am not going to be leaving open fuel cans or other
flammables lying around. But the question posed to me was: What if your
changing a fuel filter and gas does leak on the ground. I guess it would
take alot of fumes to ignite and that would happen only if I am too stupid
to open the garage doors to vent the place. I have seen several woodshops
with wood stoves, so I am not really concerned about wood dust in the air
causing an explosion.
Searcher
Searcher wrote:
> Another question that I have : The garage IS heated, but with radiators that
> are supplied from the house oil boiler, problem is this is expensive ( went
> through 600.00 worth of oil in a month and a half). I do have a Volgesang
> Boxwood stove that I would like to use. Since this is also our garage and
> there will be fuel in the garage, will having this stove present a problem.
> I do also work on vehicles BUT nothing major. One friend mentioned that the
> fumes (if any) could be ignited by the stove when in operation. ANY
> THOUGHTS?
>
>
> Searcher-
>
>
Gee, I used to actually park vehicles in my garage that has a water
heater and gas drier with pilot lights. The house (and attached garage)
are still standing after 34 years. Amazing!
I presume you aren't going to be leaving open cans of fuel lying around?
Dave
Where does it get its burn air?
--
If at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving
"B a r r y" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Mike Berger wrote:
> > How tight and well-insulated are the garages in florida?
>
> One of them is insulated and air conditioned. <G>
>
> Barry
Mike Berger <[email protected]> writes:
>Ah, the old "it works for me so it must be ok for everybody".
>We have had several fires in this community attributed to
>garage-based gas water heaters igniting gasoline vapor. Just
>because your garage hasn't burnt down doesn't mean it's safe,
>or a good idea.
And that's why code requires the appliance with a pilot light
to be 18" above the floor.
scott
Searcher wrote:
> No, your right, I am not going to be leaving open fuel cans or other
> flammables lying around. But the question posed to me was: What if your
> changing a fuel filter and gas does leak on the ground. I guess it would
> take alot of fumes to ignite and that would happen only if I am too stupid
> to open the garage doors to vent the place. I have seen several woodshops
> with wood stoves, so I am not really concerned about wood dust in the air
> causing an explosion.
>
> Searcher
>
>
Take the same precautions as I would working around gasoline with a
pilot light of a water heater nearby. AVOID IT! Working on the vehicle
with the possibility of a leakage of fuel is a hazard, stove or no
stove, if there's a source of ignition and not a huge amount of air
exchange. Even with the door open, the fumes can build up from a modest
spill of gasoline. I'd wait until the weather was nice enough to work
in the driveway. changing a fuel filter shouldn't result in a puddle of
gas <g>. (I've changed filters literally hundreds of times, btw)
Dave
Mike Berger wrote:
> How tight and well-insulated are the garages in florida?
>
> B a r r y wrote:
>
>> In Florida, where construction is probably similar to Dave's area,
>> every one of my relatives has a gas-fired furnace and water heater in
>> the garage. The same garage contains cars, lawn mowers, weed wackers,
>> dirt bikes, and 99 other gasoline powered devices.
You are "out of gas" Mike. <g>
Dave
Humbug. Pay attention to the "according to
commission estimates" and all the other fudge
words. Strange why they didn't provide actual
data. Well maybe not strange, they probably don't
have data that specific and combine data from many
different cause. Besides 5 deaths and 130
injuries per year is minuscule and fits the
description of highly uncommon. Also note that
they say flammable vapors and hint at most are
from gasoline. But they have no facts. How many
of those were caused by spraying lacquer or
shellac or due to some other non-gasoline product.
Note that by their own estimates their is less
that one chance in 100 of being killed if you have
a garage fire started by a gas water heater, and
less than 17 percent chance of injury. Those are
excellent odds in any type of accident.
And probably all of those deaths and injuries and
fires could be avoided by exercise of a few adult
brains. For example, who in their right mind
stores gasoline in a garage, who starts or tries
to start a gas engine in a closed garage. Or
leaves flammable (and Toxic) substances where
(untended, problem here?) children can get to them?
BTW, he hasn't seen it because it is rare (that
about the same as just doesn't exist).
Mike Berger wrote:
> Typical atheist -- I haven't seen it so it doesn't exist :-)
>
> Ok, here are some citations for you:
> <http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/05/14/tech/main617547.shtml>
> <http://www.sptimes.com/2004/09/29/Northpinellas/Stored_gas_in_sealed_.shtml>
>
> <http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml03/03158.html>
>
> Here's a quote from the US Consumer Products Safety Commission:
>
> "Gas water heater ignition of flammable vapors is involved in nearly 800
> residential fires, resulting in an average of five deaths and 130
> injuries annually, according to commission estimates."
>
> Despite your experience, it appears to be more common than you think.
>
>
> Mike Marlow wrote:
>
>> Now that I just have to question. I was in the fire service for a lot of
>> years and *never* responded to a fire from this cause. You have had
>> "several"? Bull. So... how much gasoline vapor was necessay? How
>> big was
>> the explosion - because you do know, right, that those fumes wouldn't
>> just
>> burn - they would explode.
Mike Marlow wrote:
> "Mike Berger" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>
>>Ah, the old "it works for me so it must be ok for everybody".
>>We have had several fires in this community attributed to
>>garage-based gas water heaters igniting gasoline vapor. Just
>>because your garage hasn't burnt down doesn't mean it's safe,
>>or a good idea.
>
>
> Now that I just have to question. I was in the fire service for a lot of
> years and *never* responded to a fire from this cause. You have had
> "several"? Bull. So... how much gasoline vapor was necessay? How big was
> the explosion - because you do know, right, that those fumes wouldn't just
> burn - they would explode.
>
>
>>You don't need open cans of fuel for fuel vapor. A lawnmower,
>>weed trimmer, or fuel-rich mixture when starting your car will
>>do it.
>
>
> You clearly don't have a clue about this Mike. What is the concentration of
> fume that your lawn mower will generate? Here's hint - you can leave the
> gas cap completely off the tank and not evaporate enough gas fast enough to
> cause a problem with a water heater or furnace.
>
It's the good old newgroup symptom. Thanks Mike
Marlow for providing some real job experience to
dispell some fear mongering.
On Fri, 06 Jan 2006 10:33:46 -0600, Mike Berger <[email protected]> wrote:
>Typical atheist -- I haven't seen it so it doesn't exist :-)
>
>Ok, here are some citations for you:
><http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/05/14/tech/main617547.shtml>
Gotta question that one. Cell phones *don't* generate sparks to ring.
The ring tones are digitally generated and d/a converted to an analog
signal fed to the speaker in the handset mouthpiece. There has to be more
to that story, perhaps a static spark was coincidentally generated
simultaneous with the cell phone ringing. All of the fear-mongering
regarding cell phones has been the idea that it *might* be *possible* that
there would be a spark generated from the battery if it were
malfunctioning. Frankly, the fear seems just plain silly when you consider
the fact the the pump itself is electronic in nature and the pump housing
is hardly hermetically sealed.
While hardly a paragon of rigorous scientific inquiry, the guys at
Mythbusters attempted to ignite a gasoline conflagration with a cell phone,
they were remarkebly unsuccessful in doing so, despite some very abusive
treatment of the cell phone in question.
Perhaps the best explanation comes from the Snopes reference:
<http://www.snopes.com/autos/hazards/gasvapor.asp>
"News reports routinely attribute gas pump fires to cell phone use whenever
a fire occurs at a service station where such a phone was in use at the
time, and police and firefighters at the scene often simply assume the
connection between the two to be valid. Later investigations, however, have
always shown in such cases that the press reports were wrong, that
something else touched off the fires, and the presence of cell phones was
coincidental rather than causal. In a world where people are increasingly
unwilling to allow even the possibility of something going wrong, however,
we're bound to see even more regulations "protecting" us from yet another
non-existent threat. "
As a matter of fact, the next page in the same Snopes page:
"Update: Yes, we know about the 13 May 2004 gas station fire in New
Paltz, New York, that news reports claimed was touched off by a cell phone.
As our paragraph above notes, erroneous reports of this nature are not
uncommon, because reporters (and other officials) base them upon
assumptions made at the scene rather than upon later, more thorough
investigations (which so far have always found something other than cell
phones usually static electricity to be the igniting agent).
In May 2004, PEI posted on its web site the following assessment of the
cause of that fire:
PEI has been in contact with the fire marshall in New Paltz, NY to
learn more about this incident. It turns out the initial reports were not
accurate. Patrick Koch, the fire chief of New Paltz, NY offered PEI this
statement:
"After further investigation of the accident scene and another
discussion with the victim of the May 13 gasoline station fire in New
Paltz, I have concluded the source of ignition was from some source other
than the cell phone the motorist was carrying. Although we will probably
never know for sure, the source of ignition was most likely static
discharge from the motorist himself to the nozzle dispensing gasoline."
"
Of course it was a CBS story, so the credibility of the story (or at
least the conclusions) is suspect to begin with.
Others have discussed the other cites
><http://www.sptimes.com/2004/09/29/Northpinellas/Stored_gas_in_sealed_.shtml>
><http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml03/03158.html>
>
>Here's a quote from the US Consumer Products Safety Commission:
>
>"Gas water heater ignition of flammable vapors is involved in nearly 800
>residential fires, resulting in an average of five deaths and 130
>injuries annually, according to commission estimates."
>
>Despite your experience, it appears to be more common than you think.
>
>
>Mike Marlow wrote:
>
>> Now that I just have to question. I was in the fire service for a lot of
>> years and *never* responded to a fire from this cause. You have had
>> "several"? Bull. So... how much gasoline vapor was necessay? How big was
>> the explosion - because you do know, right, that those fumes wouldn't just
>> burn - they would explode.
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
"Mark & Juanita" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Gotta question that one. Cell phones *don't* generate sparks to ring.
>
> While hardly a paragon of rigorous scientific inquiry, the guys at
> Mythbusters attempted to ignite a gasoline conflagration with a cell
phone,
> they were remarkebly unsuccessful in doing so, despite some very abusive
> treatment of the cell phone in question.
>
>
> Of course it was a CBS story, so the credibility of the story (or at
> least the conclusions) is suspect to begin with.
>
>
This is good follow up stuff Mark. I had not ever spent anytime following
up on the cell phone hype. I'd certainly heard that it was being given some
credible thought, but never followed it any further than that.
BTW - the guys at Mythbusters - "hardly a paragon of rigorous scientific
inquiry"? Whatchyou tryin' to say here...
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
I have a water heater in my garage as well but it is a sealed unit and gets
it's combustion air form the outside and I would bet that most of theirs are
of the same type.
--
If at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving
"B a r r y" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> David wrote:
> >
> > Gee, I used to actually park vehicles in my garage that has a water
> > heater and gas drier with pilot lights. The house (and attached garage)
> > are still standing after 34 years. Amazing!
>
> Interesting point.
>
> Here in New England, our furnaces and water heaters are typically in the
> basement. We worry about sawdust and fumes, but never hear of a problem.
>
> In Florida, where construction is probably similar to Dave's area, every
> one of my relatives has a gas-fired furnace and water heater in the
> garage. The same garage contains cars, lawn mowers, weed wackers, dirt
> bikes, and 99 other gasoline powered devices.
Ah, the old "it works for me so it must be ok for everybody".
We have had several fires in this community attributed to
garage-based gas water heaters igniting gasoline vapor. Just
because your garage hasn't burnt down doesn't mean it's safe,
or a good idea.
You don't need open cans of fuel for fuel vapor. A lawnmower,
weed trimmer, or fuel-rich mixture when starting your car will
do it.
David wrote:
> Gee, I used to actually park vehicles in my garage that has a water
> heater and gas drier with pilot lights. The house (and attached garage)
> are still standing after 34 years. Amazing!
>
> I presume you aren't going to be leaving open cans of fuel lying around?
You clearly don't ahve a clue about this Mike. You can pull the
starter cord on a lawnmower with a dirty carburetor and generate
plenty of fuel vapor.
Remember, we're talking about not just having fuel vapor, but an
open ignition source (pilot flame) in the same enclosed space.
That's not allowed by code around here anymore -- hasn't been
for some time. But since it's not dangerous, maybe you can convince
them to change that.
Mike Marlow wrote:
> You clearly don't have a clue about this Mike. What is the concentration of
> fume that your lawn mower will generate? Here's hint - you can leave the
> gas cap completely off the tank and not evaporate enough gas fast enough to
> cause a problem with a water heater or furnace.
>
Yes -- but houses built prior to that requirement don't all
follow it. And frankly, some contractors don't seem to see
a difference between 6" and 18" when it comes to things like
that. There are lots of places where it's not allowed at all.
Scott Lurndal wrote:
> And that's why code requires the appliance with a pilot light
> to be 18" above the floor.
>
> scott
>
How tight and well-insulated are the garages in florida?
B a r r y wrote:
> In Florida, where construction is probably similar to Dave's area, every
> one of my relatives has a gas-fired furnace and water heater in the
> garage. The same garage contains cars, lawn mowers, weed wackers, dirt
> bikes, and 99 other gasoline powered devices.
Typical atheist -- I haven't seen it so it doesn't exist :-)
Ok, here are some citations for you:
<http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/05/14/tech/main617547.shtml>
<http://www.sptimes.com/2004/09/29/Northpinellas/Stored_gas_in_sealed_.shtml>
<http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml03/03158.html>
Here's a quote from the US Consumer Products Safety Commission:
"Gas water heater ignition of flammable vapors is involved in nearly 800
residential fires, resulting in an average of five deaths and 130
injuries annually, according to commission estimates."
Despite your experience, it appears to be more common than you think.
Mike Marlow wrote:
> Now that I just have to question. I was in the fire service for a lot of
> years and *never* responded to a fire from this cause. You have had
> "several"? Bull. So... how much gasoline vapor was necessay? How big was
> the explosion - because you do know, right, that those fumes wouldn't just
> burn - they would explode.
"Ba r r y" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Fri, 06 Jan 2006 21:29:18 GMT, "TBone" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>>Where does it get its burn air?
>
> Well duh, inside the building... It's obviously not an airtight
> submarine. <G>
>
> My indoor, basement located, oil fired furnace and water heater, here
> in New England, also draw burn air from the inside of the building.
>
> Are you guys going to tell me it dosen't, just like the 1/2 space
> breakers that didn't exist? <G>
>
> Barry
not all do though. my propane heater gets it's burn air from the outside.
Mark & Juanita <[email protected]> writes:
> On Fri, 06 Jan 2006 10:33:46 -0600, Mike Berger <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Typical atheist -- I haven't seen it so it doesn't exist :-)
>>
>>Ok, here are some citations for you:
>><http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/05/14/tech/main617547.shtml>
>
> Gotta question that one. Cell phones *don't* generate sparks to ring.
Yup. The "cell phone causing gas pump fires" seems to be an urban legend.
See
http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/weekly/aa062399.htm
Static electricity can be a cause. That's documented.
--
Sending unsolicited commercial e-mail to this account incurs a fee of
$500 per message, and acknowledges the legality of this contract.
On Sat, 7 Jan 2006 06:57:52 -0500, "Mike Marlow" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
>"Mark & Juanita" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>
>>
>> Gotta question that one. Cell phones *don't* generate sparks to ring.
>
>>
>> While hardly a paragon of rigorous scientific inquiry, the guys at
>> Mythbusters attempted to ignite a gasoline conflagration with a cell
>phone,
>> they were remarkebly unsuccessful in doing so, despite some very abusive
>> treatment of the cell phone in question.
>>
>>
>> Of course it was a CBS story, so the credibility of the story (or at
>> least the conclusions) is suspect to begin with.
>>
>>
>
>This is good follow up stuff Mark. I had not ever spent anytime following
>up on the cell phone hype. I'd certainly heard that it was being given some
>credible thought, but never followed it any further than that.
>
>BTW - the guys at Mythbusters - "hardly a paragon of rigorous scientific
>inquiry"? Whatchyou tryin' to say here...
... nothin, I wasn't sayin' nothin'. Didn't mean no disrespect,ya know?
:-)
Actually they do a pretty credible job, but it would be a hard sell to
try to use them as fully reliable references because there will always be
equal but opposite experts who will question the methodologies or
approaches the Mythbusters take in the design of their experiments. One
of the problems is that they can usually only do one instance of their
experiment, so they don't get statistically representative samples. In
some cases, that's not an issue because they are trying to demonstrate
something, if it works once, they have achieved their goal, if it doesn't,
that doesn't necessarily prove the negative.
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
On Fri, 06 Jan 2006 21:29:18 GMT, "TBone" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Where does it get its burn air?
Well duh, inside the building... It's obviously not an airtight
submarine. <G>
My indoor, basement located, oil fired furnace and water heater, here
in New England, also draw burn air from the inside of the building.
Are you guys going to tell me it dosen't, just like the 1/2 space
breakers that didn't exist? <G>
Barry
On Fri, 6 Jan 2006 15:32:02 -0700, "Charles Spitzer"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>not all do though. my propane heater gets it's burn air from the outside.
>
I agree. Some do, some don't. Variations in installations are huge,
especially in different locales.
I lived in a home built in 1980 that had an oil-fired furnace in the
garage, 6 feet from a car, with three underground walls, an insulated
front wall, and a family room over it, that drew burn air from inside
the garage.
I just spent two days in another thread being told I was imagining
things in my electrical panel. <G>
Geeze I just wanted an opinion on using a woddstove in my garage. I didn't
expect all this debate. I gues what I gather from all this malarchy is that
I can put the stove in the garage, just as long as I don't use gasoline by
the gallon for cleaning the oil spills, RIGHT?
I figured on the "ole' guys in here to say, "Iv'e been using a stove in my
garage for 50 years" or the like.
And I still didn't get a rebuttal on my mobility base question.
Thanks
Searcher, Still searching for an answer
"Searcher" <[email protected]> wrote in message =
news:L%gvf.8678$gq4.1069@trndny04...
| Well, I am finally back, yes its been awhile but I finally got my new =
house=20
| complete with 3 car (err, I mean GREAT BIG workshop) garage. I went to =
| Woodcraft and bought a mobility base for my table saw today and =
installed=20
| it. Though I have not yet had chance to use the saw as I am still =
putting it=20
| back together. My question is: How do these mobility bases fair? Are =
there=20
| any inherent problems with them. I did buy a better one , 4 corners =
with a=20
| 3/4 plywood for support. THe locks seem to work well enough. Anyway, I =
got=20
| the base installed on the saw and found a large open level spot on the =
floor=20
| and leveled the entire saw to that specific area. I figued that the =
best=20
| spot would be middle of the bay about 10 ft from the door.
|=20
| Another question that I have : The garage IS heated, but with =
radiators that=20
| are supplied from the house oil boiler, problem is this is expensive ( =
went=20
| through 600.00 worth of oil in a month and a half). I do have a =
Volgesang=20
| Boxwood stove that I would like to use. Since this is also our garage =
and=20
| there will be fuel in the garage, will having this stove present a =
problem.=20
| I do also work on vehicles BUT nothing major. One friend mentioned =
that the=20
| fumes (if any) could be ignited by the stove when in operation. ANY=20
| THOUGHTS?
|=20
|=20
| Searcher-=20
|=20
|=20
I had the same problem myself, and opted for a gas plasma unit mounted =
at the ceiling.
Most utilities, by government regulations, require that any open flame =
be at least 18 inches above floor level. With this in mind, mount your =
stove at this height, vent the smoke outside, and happy trails.
--=20
PDQ
--
On 1/5/2006 7:00 PM Mike Berger mumbled something about the following:
> Ah, the old "it works for me so it must be ok for everybody".
> We have had several fires in this community attributed to
> garage-based gas water heaters igniting gasoline vapor. Just
> because your garage hasn't burnt down doesn't mean it's safe,
> or a good idea.
>
> You don't need open cans of fuel for fuel vapor. A lawnmower,
> weed trimmer, or fuel-rich mixture when starting your car will
> do it.
>
> David wrote:
>
>> Gee, I used to actually park vehicles in my garage that has a water
>> heater and gas drier with pilot lights. The house (and attached
>> garage) are still standing after 34 years. Amazing!
>>
>> I presume you aren't going to be leaving open cans of fuel lying around?
Must be an awful lot of gas fumes then since gasoline needs approx a
14:1 ratio for combustion (litte more, little less works, but not a
whole lot more/less). With a typical 2 car garage having about 3000 cu
ft of space, that means it would need about 200 cu ft of fumes, which is
an awful lot of gasoline to create that amount of fumes. Remember, it
isn't gasoline itself that is flammable, it's the fumes.
--
Odinn
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