B.S. by Famiy Handyman magazine.

Bill wrote:

>
> I don't see another forum for this, but anyone happy with TFHM
> shortening your subscription, unilaterally? I mean we pay for a
> subscription for a set # of issues and they decide to offer a double
> sized issue and shorten the subscription because of THEIR decision. I
> have NO problems with paying for the double issue when I go to renew
> the subscription, it will only minimally increase the subscription
> rate. But to decided to, effectively, increase the subscription rate
> AFTER I thought it was "locked-in" by buying it in advance, well, I
> find that distasteful.
>
> Am I alone?

Just for the record Bill - I do agree with you.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On Wed, 19 Oct 2011 20:02:00 -0400, Bill <[email protected]>
wrote:

>My recent issue arrived with a separate page explaining that "this is a
>special issue and that it will count as two of your subscriber issues,
>and the duration of your subscription will be adjusted accordingly."
>
>
>Here is my email reply:
>
>-------------------------
>Dear The Family Handyman,
>
>I had to laugh when I read the insert that you provided my my magazine:
>" .. We are treating it as a special issue that will count towards
>two of your subscriber issuses."
>except for the fact that you're wasting my time.
>
>My reason for asking you to treat it only as ONE issue for me is:
>*** What the hell do you think this is??? We had a contract!!! ***
>
>I am very unsatisfied which your magazines conduct in this matter. I
>find it VERY UNPROFESSIONAL and I hope that it does not happen again.
>-------------------------
>
>If you're a subscriber, take notice and don't let them try to pull that
>crap. FWIW, regular issue ~100 pages, this one was 130 and seems to
>include more advertising than usual.

If I were the person at FH reading your missive I would disregard it
and file in the 'lunatic fringe' basket. Perhaps a better thought out
response which contained fewer vestigial question marks, asterisks and
exclamation points would have made you come across as a valuable and
believable customer. I think you should just cancel your subscription.
Financial responses go farther towards making a point than rhetoric,
capital letters and vulgarity. Just sayin'

On Fri, 21 Oct 2011 09:50:39 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:

>On 10/21/2011 9:15 AM, Swingman wrote:
>> On 10/19/2011 7:02 PM, Bill wrote:
>>> My recent issue arrived with a separate page explaining that "this is a
>>> special issue and that it will count as two of your subscriber issues,
>>> and the duration of your subscription will be adjusted accordingly."
>>
>> I got the same subscription. The difference is in how you use it
>>
>> My MIL apparently thinks, because I have more "tools" than anyone else
>> she knows, that I'm a "handyman", that that is what I do, and therefore
>> the subscription to TFHM she blesses me with yearly, for the last ten
>> years just tickles me to death, which it indeed sometimes does.
>>
>> Appropriately, the mag goes straight to the shitter each month, where it
>> uniquely belongs. Much better than the Sears catalog when you find out
>> at the last minute that the pups have chewed up the TP, again ... just
>> wrinkle it real good and you're in business.
>>
>> That extra twenty pages was a BIG plus in that regard.
>>
>
>WOW! You should submit those comments directly to the magazine. I bet
>they would appreciate hearing from a reader that gets so much use out of
>their publication...
>
>Now I dare you to do so. ;~)

I don't believe that he utilizes the magazine for that particular use.
Glossy stock is a crappy crapper paper.

My research revealed this: The Oct issue had 57ish pages of ads in a
108 page mag. The controversial Nov issue had 47ish pages of ads in a
128 page mag. So, content pages totaled 47.2% in the Oct issue and
56.5% in the Nov issue. They want double the "price" for a measly
9.3% content increase (which they touted as double)? Feh!

--
Happiness lies in the joy of achievement and the thrill of creative effort.
-- Franklin D. Roosevelt

In article <[email protected]>, tommyboy
<[email protected]> wrote:

> I think you should just cancel your subscription.

Exactly. Pissing and moaning and writing letters will have little
effect on the publisher. Pull money, however, and you'll definitely
have their attention.

--
Woodworking and more at <http://www.woodenwabbits.com>

Bill wrote:
> My recent issue arrived with a separate page explaining that "this is
> a special issue and that it will count as two of your subscriber
> issues, and the duration of your subscription will be adjusted
> accordingly."
>
> Here is my email reply:
>
> -------------------------
> Dear The Family Handyman,
>
> I had to laugh when I read the insert that you provided my my
> magazine: " .. We are treating it as a special issue that will count
> towards two of your subscriber issuses."
> except for the fact that you're wasting my time.
>
> My reason for asking you to treat it only as ONE issue for me is:
> *** What the hell do you think this is??? We had a contract!!! ***
>
> I am very unsatisfied which your magazines conduct in this matter. I
> find it VERY UNPROFESSIONAL and I hope that it does not happen again.
> -------------------------
>
> If you're a subscriber, take notice and don't let them try to pull
> that crap. FWIW, regular issue ~100 pages, this one was 130 and
> seems to include more advertising than usual.

Consider yourself lucky you got anything out of them. Your letter to them
made no sense at all.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On Wed, 19 Oct 2011 20:02:00 -0400, Bill <[email protected]>
wrote:

>My recent issue arrived with a separate page explaining that "this is a
>special issue and that it will count as two of your subscriber issues,
>and the duration of your subscription will be adjusted accordingly."
>
>
They hired an MBA who showed them how to save money and bullshit you
about what great deal your getting. What they were attempting to do
is, tell you to go hell and make you look forward to the trip.

I watched an ad on TV where a guy claimed to have saved an olive
producer 86,000$ by leaving one olive out of the jar. In no nonsense
terms, he shorted the customer. He was so proud of himself, he was
advertising his service.

In a Ford boardroom, an MBA very seriously asked why a wheel needed
five bolts to hold a wheel on, when one would do. His remarks were
met with incredulous awe. Apparently, he demonstrated the acme of
know nothing ignorance and stupidity to the wrong crowd.

Be aware that these weasels are into everything and are part of the
corporate culture.

You could call a lawyer to find out if this breach of contract and if
so, bring a class action suit forward. If your not into that, then
spread the word to all media sources at your disposal.

P






--- Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net/ - Complaints to [email protected] ---

"Bill" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 10/20/2011 12:25 PM, Bill wrote:
>> On 10/20/2011 11:39 AM, Dave Balderstone wrote:
>>> In article<[email protected]>, tommyboy
>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I think you should just cancel your subscription.
>>>
>>> Exactly. Pissing and moaning and writing letters will have little
>>> effect on the publisher. Pull money, however, and you'll definitely
>>> have their attention.
>>>
>>
>> And then what. Being right isn't everything. They just need to remember
>> there contract.
>
> I should have said:
>
> And then what? Being right isn't everything. They just need to remember
> their contract.


Haste makes waist.................

Max

"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote
>
> Appropriately, the mag goes straight to the shitter each month, where it
> uniquely belongs. Much better than the Sears catalog when you find out
> at the last minute that the pups have chewed up the TP, again ... just
> wrinkle it real good and you're in business.
>

Damn! You should write ad copy.

Maybe you could solicit a marketing job from these good folks. ;-)

tiredofspam <nospam.nospam.com> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> I would have to agree. I have stopped all subscriptions. I find that
> they just repeat the same old stuff... Rarely anything of value.
> I am more interested in furniture catalogs, to get ideas, and stuff.
> How to build it, well the magazines rarely get into anything heady...
> So it very basic. Finishing... They never really go deep. Tools... they
> miss the mark so many times it's amazing. I think the advertising skews
> them...
>
> I will admit that sometimes I see a neat tip in the tips section, but
> usually it's recycled over and over.
>
> Most mags are just advertising.. rehashing... and sometimes bad
> suggestions...

I dropped another magazine (not woodworking related) for the same reason.
Some blame the Internet for killing off print, but what's really killing
them is their coverage is as glossy as their pages. Remember when color
was expensive and photographs were rare? Ideas had to be communicated
with 26 letters, 4 or 5 main punctuation marks and that was it.

If magazines want to survive, they have to be willing to go in depth with
a subject. A reader should have a sense of "I can do that" instead of
"That's how they do it."

Puckdropper

On 2011-10-19 21:03:30 -0400, Bill <[email protected]> said:

> Mike Marlow wrote:
>
>> Consider yourself lucky you got anything out of them. Your letter to them
>> made no sense at all.
>>
>
> Well, technically it made me about 100 sense I hardly care about. I
> wonder how much it improves their bottom line for the year...I'm hoping
> in the end, not much. If they can't treat their customers with respect
> and stay in business, they won't have one.

My guess* is that they're already foundering. I'm willing to bet you
won't see all of the [10] remaining issues in your sub.

*based on nearly 40 years' experience in advertising, publishing, and
printing...

On 2011-10-21 22:34:23 -0400, "m II" <[email protected]> said:

> Exactly! Years ago the computer magazines started the "for full listing
> of code see www.bahblahblah.com"instead of putting it in the magazine
> and interfering with their advertising space. heaven forbid they would
> have to increase their postage a cent by making the magazine fatter or
> reducing advertising space. Those days nobody I knew was even on the
> Internet. I used a "modem muff" at 300 baud to talk to University
> "hunnybun" mainframe. They pushed it to the point of ruining their
> publications and promoting the Internet to their own demise.
>
> The magazines appear to have become only teasers to sell you more
> information. Front end sales.

Close, but you haven't managed to light your cigar.

In general, print publishing has two revenue streams: circulation and
advertising. In my newspaper days, the rule of thumb was that 40% of
the revenue came from subscribers/newsstand. That paid for your
production costs. Advertising paid everything else, including salaries
and profit for the owners/investors.

Percentages may have flucuated since then, but as example, what is the
impact of a cost increase in paper? Yes, production costs have risen.
So, do you A.) raise the price of the paper, or B.) cut the space
devoted to news, reallocating that space to ads as your "revenue
enhancer"?

Before you choose one or the other, consider the impact of each choice.
Cutting the "news hole" makes the paper less vital as a news source,
and will probably result in a drop in subscribers. Raising the price
will probably result in a number of subscribers deciding the damn
thing's too expensive, even if the amount of news space remains the
same.

But selling more ads will bring more revenue... until the circulation
decline convinces the advertisers they're no longer reaching the number
of readers that justifies the current ad rates. Hence, the publisher
will trumpet lower rates -- making them "a better advertsing value than
ever!"

Back in the day, there wasn't choice C.) rehance the reader's value
with your on-line presence... but there was the good old editorial
calendar. "Let's see," the publisher tells the sales manager, "January,
we can do finishes; February will be our "annual" tool issue; March
will feature projects the reader can build to take advanage of the
April showers... Now get your bos out there and sell some ads, because
we're going to give those advertisers' products some excellent
editorial support!"

We do now have choice C, but a certain fine woodworking magazine has
chosen to SELL its on-line presence to its readers. Now, that's pissed
off a certain percentage of readers who "know" on-line should be an
enhancement, rather than a revenue stream. Conversely, it's convinced
some readers they no longer need the printed offering.

Well, this does keep the bean counters in jobs -- for now, anyway --
determining which option or combination of options will result in the
greatest revenue, or at least in the least damage to current revenue
models.

The trick remians the same: offer a product that will draw readers (and
advertisers, most likely), find a way to pay for it, and keep the
plates spinning on those spindly little sticks.

BTW, with Chris Schwartz having left Popular Woodworking, that plate's
looking a little wobbly. I hope Schwartz' new publishing venture is
successful, because it looks like his books will be high quality
informational sources tergeting (probably) a small readership. I
imagine his definition of success will likely be quite different from
PW's -- the ability publish a "sturdy" product, to keep the family fed
and the lights on as opposed to filling the shareholders' pockets.

On 2011-10-21 21:45:25 -0400, Roy <[email protected]> said:

> Your calculations are correct, but meaningless since they just compare the
> percentage of ad pages in two issues. You want to compare the total number of
> content pages, regardless of total pages in an issue. Using your figures and
> some cyphering I calculate the Oct issue had 51 pages of content and the Nov
> issue had 81.
> The content pages in Nov are actually 59% more than Oct, while the total pages
> increased 18.5%. The over all content is actually much better, but is
> still not
> the double you are being charged for.

See my response to Bill upthread. Having run the numbers, you've merely
solidified my gut notion: this magazine is circling the drain.

I'm not celebrating this because I'm sure someone values this
publication. But they'd best reinvent themselves and their business
model damn fast.

On 2011-10-22 00:27:35 -0400, "m II" <[email protected]> said:

> Maybe you can explain why the magazine subscriptions sell for less than
> quarter the newsstand price when they have to add shipping (postage
> usually) and additional packaging (wrapper)
>
> Do advertisers think that newsstand copies are not read by consumers,
> trashed, and only subscriptions count?

Aggregate numbers. "We have this many readers." (holds up both hands...
with all fingers extended)

Postage is pretty cheap, and newsstands are allowed returns. Next time
you see one, read the publisher's statement, required (IIRC, by postal
regs) to run annually. You will find both annual averages as well as
stats for the issue nearest the date of the statement. You'll also find
how many copies were "free" distribution.

Bottom line: press run /= readership

On 2011-10-25 19:23:31 -0400, Bill <[email protected]> said:

> I figured if I told 2 friends, and each of them told 2 friends, etc.,

The old saw is that a satisfied customer tells three others; a
dissatisfied customer tells ten. Don't know of research to back this
up, but it does feel right. doesn't it?

On Fri, 21 Oct 2011 18:37:37 -0400, Bill <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Larry Jaques wrote:
>> On Fri, 21 Oct 2011 12:12:21 -0400, Bill<[email protected]>

>>> Maybe you should forward you stats to [email protected]???
>>> Let 'em know we feel like we have wet shoes! ; )
>>
>> I'll do that once I've read both issues. I fully intend to retain my
>> option to -not- pay double for a single issue.
>
>Yeah, don't forget to read *both* of 'em! lol

"All three" if they have their way.

--
Happiness lies in the joy of achievement and the thrill of creative effort.
-- Franklin D. Roosevelt

Ahhh class action lawsuits. Another useless thing.
The only people that get repaid are the attorneys. They get paid very
richly everyone else gets dirt.

I had an RCA TV that everyone had the same problem with. Cost me $150 to
repair it each time. All because it was missing a Heat Sink. The class
action lawsuit allowed me to reclaim a coupon for $50 off my next
purchase. So it cost me $150 twice, but I get $50 off my next
purchase??? Needless to say... no more RCA products..

I have a few of those stories. My car... The dealer pulled a fast one
and was caught. The class action suit gets me $20 off licensing my next car.
The ripoff was for $100.
I didn't get the money back, and $20 doesn't cover the loss.

Yep, the low life attorneys make out, and we .... we get the shaft.


On 10/25/2011 1:31 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Wed, 19 Oct 2011 20:02:00 -0400, Bill<[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> My recent issue arrived with a separate page explaining that "this is a
>> special issue and that it will count as two of your subscriber issues,
>> and the duration of your subscription will be adjusted accordingly."
>>
>>
> They hired an MBA who showed them how to save money and bullshit you
> about what great deal your getting. What they were attempting to do
> is, tell you to go hell and make you look forward to the trip.
>
> I watched an ad on TV where a guy claimed to have saved an olive
> producer 86,000$ by leaving one olive out of the jar. In no nonsense
> terms, he shorted the customer. He was so proud of himself, he was
> advertising his service.
>
> In a Ford boardroom, an MBA very seriously asked why a wheel needed
> five bolts to hold a wheel on, when one would do. His remarks were
> met with incredulous awe. Apparently, he demonstrated the acme of
> know nothing ignorance and stupidity to the wrong crowd.
>
> Be aware that these weasels are into everything and are part of the
> corporate culture.
>
> You could call a lawyer to find out if this breach of contract and if
> so, bring a class action suit forward. If your not into that, then
> spread the word to all media sources at your disposal.
>
> P
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net/ - Complaints to [email protected] ---

On Fri, 21 Oct 2011 20:45:25 -0500, Roy <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On Fri, 21 Oct 2011 08:33:10 -0700, Larry Jaques
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 21 Oct 2011 09:50:39 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On 10/21/2011 9:15 AM, Swingman wrote:
>>>> On 10/19/2011 7:02 PM, Bill wrote:
>>>>> My recent issue arrived with a separate page explaining that "this is a
>>>>> special issue and that it will count as two of your subscriber issues,
>>>>> and the duration of your subscription will be adjusted accordingly."
>>>>
>>>> I got the same subscription. The difference is in how you use it
>>>>
>>>> My MIL apparently thinks, because I have more "tools" than anyone else
>>>> she knows, that I'm a "handyman", that that is what I do, and therefore
>>>> the subscription to TFHM she blesses me with yearly, for the last ten
>>>> years just tickles me to death, which it indeed sometimes does.
>>>>
>>>> Appropriately, the mag goes straight to the shitter each month, where it
>>>> uniquely belongs. Much better than the Sears catalog when you find out
>>>> at the last minute that the pups have chewed up the TP, again ... just
>>>> wrinkle it real good and you're in business.
>>>>
>>>> That extra twenty pages was a BIG plus in that regard.
>>>>
>>>
>>>WOW! You should submit those comments directly to the magazine. I bet
>>>they would appreciate hearing from a reader that gets so much use out of
>>>their publication...
>>>
>>>Now I dare you to do so. ;~)
>>
>>I don't believe that he utilizes the magazine for that particular use.
>>Glossy stock is a crappy crapper paper.
>>
>>My research revealed this: The Oct issue had 57ish pages of ads in a
>>108 page mag. The controversial Nov issue had 47ish pages of ads in a
>>128 page mag. So, content pages totaled 47.2% in the Oct issue and
>>56.5% in the Nov issue. They want double the "price" for a measly
>>9.3% content increase (which they touted as double)? Feh!
>
>Your calculations are correct, but meaningless since they just compare the
>percentage of ad pages in two issues.

No I didn't. That was just one calc. Are you reading impaired, Roy?


>You want to compare the total number of
>content pages, regardless of total pages in an issue.

I did, and came up with percentages, which is what I was after.


>Using your figures and
>some cyphering I calculate the Oct issue had 51 pages of content and the Nov
>issue had 81.

Huh? 47.2% of 108 pages is not 51, and 56.5% of 128 is not 81 in
anyone's book. What -are- you smoking, sir?


>The content pages in Nov are actually 59% more than Oct, while the total pages
>increased 18.5%. The over all content is actually much better, but is still not
>the double you are being charged for.

Back away from the hookah and keep your hands in sight, sir.


>IMO, you've already got the best advice, which is to cancel the subscription and
>demand a cash refund and tell them why. I had a subscription to the magazine
>sometime back in the 70's. I let it lapse after a year or two. I wish now I'd
>spent the money back then on a Fine Woodworking subscription instead.

I like the mag. Why would I cancel it? They also offered to reverse
the charge for the mag to anyone who disagreed, and I'll be taking
them up on the offer and discussing it with them.


--
...in order that a man may be happy, it is
necessary that he should not only be capable
of his work, but a good judge of his work.
-- John Ruskin

On Fri, 21 Oct 2011 12:12:21 -0400, Bill <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On 10/21/2011 11:33 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>> On Fri, 21 Oct 2011 09:50:39 -0500, Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 10/21/2011 9:15 AM, Swingman wrote:
>>>> On 10/19/2011 7:02 PM, Bill wrote:
>>>>> My recent issue arrived with a separate page explaining that "this is a
>>>>> special issue and that it will count as two of your subscriber issues,
>>>>> and the duration of your subscription will be adjusted accordingly."
>>>>
>>>> I got the same subscription. The difference is in how you use it
>>>>
>>>> My MIL apparently thinks, because I have more "tools" than anyone else
>>>> she knows, that I'm a "handyman", that that is what I do, and therefore
>>>> the subscription to TFHM she blesses me with yearly, for the last ten
>>>> years just tickles me to death, which it indeed sometimes does.
>>>>
>>>> Appropriately, the mag goes straight to the shitter each month, where it
>>>> uniquely belongs. Much better than the Sears catalog when you find out
>>>> at the last minute that the pups have chewed up the TP, again ... just
>>>> wrinkle it real good and you're in business.
>>>>
>>>> That extra twenty pages was a BIG plus in that regard.
>>>>
>>>
>>> WOW! You should submit those comments directly to the magazine. I bet
>>> they would appreciate hearing from a reader that gets so much use out of
>>> their publication...
>>>
>>> Now I dare you to do so. ;~)
>>
>> I don't believe that he utilizes the magazine for that particular use.
>> Glossy stock is a crappy crapper paper.
>>
>> My research revealed this: The Oct issue had 57ish pages of ads in a
>> 108 page mag. The controversial Nov issue had 47ish pages of ads in a
>> 128 page mag. So, content pages totaled 47.2% in the Oct issue and
>> 56.5% in the Nov issue. They want double the "price" for a measly
>> 9.3% content increase (which they touted as double)? Feh!
>>
>
>Maybe you should forward you stats to [email protected]???
>Let 'em know we feel like we have wet shoes! ; )

I'll do that once I've read both issues. I fully intend to retain my
option to -not- pay double for a single issue.

--
Happiness lies in the joy of achievement and the thrill of creative effort.
-- Franklin D. Roosevelt

On Oct 22, 10:06=A0pm, Larry Jaques <[email protected]>
wrote:
> On Sat, 22 Oct 2011 20:17:34 -0500, Roy <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >On Sat, 22 Oct 2011 18:07:42 -0700, Larry Jaques
> ><[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >>OK, amateur statistician mode acknowledged. I did it backwards.
>
> >Well, you can now be mathematically pissed they were trying to pull a fa=
st one.
>
> Hey, I already KNEW that.
>
> >>>>>The content pages in Nov are actually 59% more than Oct, while the t=
otal pages
> >>>>>increased 18.5%. =A0The over all content is actually much better, bu=
t is still not
> >>>>>the double you are being charged for.
>
> >>>>Back away from the hookah and keep your hands in sight, sir.
>
> >>>I think you're suffering from that metric system all y'all use. =A0
>
> >>LJ--carefully inching away...
>
> >Now doesn't that sound more natural than carefully millimetering away??
>
> Only because I grew up working in inches. I find both systems
> workable.
>
> --
> ...in order that a man may be happy, it is
> necessary that he should not only be capable
> of his work, but a good judge of his work.
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 -- John Ruski=
n

Punchline: "*singing* "Pardon me Roy. is that the cat that chewed your
new shoes?"
Weave your own joke around it....

On Oct 19, 8:02=A0pm, Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
> My recent issue arrived with a separate page explaining that "this is a
> special issue and that it will count as two of your subscriber issues,
> and the duration of your subscription will be adjusted accordingly."
>
> Here is my email reply:
>
> -------------------------
> Dear The Family Handyman,
>
> I had to laugh when I read the insert that you provided my my magazine:
> " .. We are treating it as a special issue that will count towards
> two of your subscriber issuses."
> except for the fact that you're wasting my time.
>
> My reason for asking you to treat it only as ONE issue for me is:
> *** What the hell do you think this is??? We had a contract!!! ***
>
> I am very unsatisfied which your magazines conduct in this matter. I
> find it VERY UNPROFESSIONAL and I hope that it does not happen again.
> -------------------------
>
> If you're a subscriber, take notice and don't let them try to pull that
> crap. =A0FWIW, regular issue ~100 pages, this one was 130 and seems to
> include more advertising than usual.

Well, yannow.... it's Family Handyman Mag, bro'.

On Fri, 21 Oct 2011 20:45:25 -0500, Roy <[email protected]> wrote:

>On Fri, 21 Oct 2011 08:33:10 -0700, Larry Jaques
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 21 Oct 2011 09:50:39 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On 10/21/2011 9:15 AM, Swingman wrote:
>>>> On 10/19/2011 7:02 PM, Bill wrote:
>>>>> My recent issue arrived with a separate page explaining that "this is a
>>>>> special issue and that it will count as two of your subscriber issues,
>>>>> and the duration of your subscription will be adjusted accordingly."
>>>>
>>>> I got the same subscription. The difference is in how you use it
>>>>
>>>> My MIL apparently thinks, because I have more "tools" than anyone else
>>>> she knows, that I'm a "handyman", that that is what I do, and therefore
>>>> the subscription to TFHM she blesses me with yearly, for the last ten
>>>> years just tickles me to death, which it indeed sometimes does.
>>>>
>>>> Appropriately, the mag goes straight to the shitter each month, where it
>>>> uniquely belongs. Much better than the Sears catalog when you find out
>>>> at the last minute that the pups have chewed up the TP, again ... just
>>>> wrinkle it real good and you're in business.
>>>>
>>>> That extra twenty pages was a BIG plus in that regard.
>>>>
>>>
>>>WOW! You should submit those comments directly to the magazine. I bet
>>>they would appreciate hearing from a reader that gets so much use out of
>>>their publication...
>>>
>>>Now I dare you to do so. ;~)
>>
>>I don't believe that he utilizes the magazine for that particular use.
>>Glossy stock is a crappy crapper paper.
>>
>>My research revealed this: The Oct issue had 57ish pages of ads in a
>>108 page mag. The controversial Nov issue had 47ish pages of ads in a
>>128 page mag. So, content pages totaled 47.2% in the Oct issue and
>>56.5% in the Nov issue. They want double the "price" for a measly
>>9.3% content increase (which they touted as double)? Feh!
>
>Your calculations are correct, but meaningless since they just compare the
^^^^^^^^^^^

Let's substitute the word 'misleading' for meaningless, and then nominate me for
Pompous Ass Of The Week for that post. Thought I'd changed it, but it's pretty
obvious I didn't.

"There are lies, damned lies, statistics, and amateurs who think they know a
little bit about statistics" to paraphrase a wise man.



>percentage of ad pages in two issues. You want to compare the total number of
>content pages, regardless of total pages in an issue. Using your figures and
>some cyphering I calculate the Oct issue had 51 pages of content and the Nov
>issue had 81.
>
>The content pages in Nov are actually 59% more than Oct, while the total pages
>increased 18.5%. The over all content is actually much better, but is still not
>the double you are being charged for.
>
>IMO, you've already got the best advice, which is to cancel the subscription and
>demand a cash refund and tell them why. I had a subscription to the magazine
>sometime back in the 70's. I let it lapse after a year or two. I wish now I'd
>spent the money back then on a Fine Woodworking subscription instead.
>

On Sat, 22 Oct 2011 19:45:31 -0500, Roy <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On Sat, 22 Oct 2011 06:00:06 -0700, Larry Jaques
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>
>>>You want to compare the total number of
>>>content pages, regardless of total pages in an issue.
>>
>>I did, and came up with percentages, which is what I was after.
>>
>>
>>>Using your figures and
>>>some cyphering I calculate the Oct issue had 51 pages of content and the Nov
>>>issue had 81.
>>
>>Huh? 47.2% of 108 pages is not 51, and 56.5% of 128 is not 81 in
>>anyone's book. What -are- you smoking, sir?
>>
>
>108 minus 57ish leaves 51 pages of content, according to your original post, for
>October. 128 minus 47ish leaves 81 pages of content for November. Therefor the
>total content increase is 81/51 = 1.59(ish), multiply by 100 to get percent and
>it becomes 159%, a 59% increase over the content pages from October.

OK, amateur statistician mode acknowledged. I did it backwards.


>>>The content pages in Nov are actually 59% more than Oct, while the total pages
>>>increased 18.5%. The over all content is actually much better, but is still not
>>>the double you are being charged for.
>>
>>Back away from the hookah and keep your hands in sight, sir.
>
>I think you're suffering from that metric system all y'all use.

LJ--carefully inching away...

--
...in order that a man may be happy, it is
necessary that he should not only be capable
of his work, but a good judge of his work.
-- John Ruskin

Swingman wrote:

>
> Appropriately, the mag goes straight to the shitter each month, where
> it uniquely belongs. Much better than the Sears catalog when you find
> out at the last minute that the pups have chewed up the TP, again ...
> just wrinkle it real good and you're in business.
>

You were obviously a high class country boy. When I grew up we didn't have
that damned Sears catalog - only you snobs had that. We looked for broad
leaf weeds/plants. The broader the leaf - the better - up to a point. Just
watch out for the poison ivy... and for the sharp edges on the leaves of
those plants - some were real killers!

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On 10/20/2011 10:39 AM, Dave Balderstone wrote:
> In article<[email protected]>, tommyboy
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> I think you should just cancel your subscription.
>
> Exactly. Pissing and moaning and writing letters will have little
> effect on the publisher. Pull money, however, and you'll definitely
> have their attention.
>

You will NOT get their attention unless yo do both. Complain and demand
a refuud of the remainder.

On 10/20/2011 7:36 PM, Bill wrote:
> Leon wrote:
>> On 10/20/2011 10:39 AM, Dave Balderstone wrote:
>>> In article<[email protected]>, tommyboy
>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I think you should just cancel your subscription.
>>>
>>> Exactly. Pissing and moaning and writing letters will have little
>>> effect on the publisher. Pull money, however, and you'll definitely
>>> have their attention.
>>>
>>
>> You will NOT get their attention unless yo do both. Complain and demand
>> a refuud of the remainder.
>
> If I do that, then I won't get to see if they print my letter in the
> next issue. I've already written them twice. And Larry Jaques is going
> to write to them, and at least one other person posted a similar message
> at their web site. I want to read the "the apology" in the next issue.
> At least they learned some of us are paying attention.

You could buy it at the news stand.

Did you send in a renewal notice for next year with your complaint?

They would be the breacher of the contract. Read it very carefully.

----------
"Bill" wrote in message news:[email protected]...
If I do that, then I won't get to see if they print my letter in the
next issue. I've already written them twice. And Larry Jaques is going
to write to them, and at least one other person posted a similar message
at their web site. I want to read the "the apology" in the next issue.
At least they learned some of us are paying attention.


Leon wrote:
> On 10/20/2011 10:39 AM, Dave Balderstone wrote:
>> In article<[email protected]>, tommyboy
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> I think you should just cancel your subscription.
>>
>> Exactly. Pissing and moaning and writing letters will have little
>> effect on the publisher. Pull money, however, and you'll definitely
>> have their attention.
>>
>
> You will NOT get their attention unless yo do both. Complain and demand
> a refuud of the remainder.

On 10/19/2011 7:02 PM, Bill wrote:
> My recent issue arrived with a separate page explaining that "this is a
> special issue and that it will count as two of your subscriber issues,
> and the duration of your subscription will be adjusted accordingly."
>
>
> Here is my email reply:
>
> -------------------------
> Dear The Family Handyman,
>
> I had to laugh when I read the insert that you provided my my magazine:
> " .. We are treating it as a special issue that will count towards
> two of your subscriber issuses."
> except for the fact that you're wasting my time.
>
> My reason for asking you to treat it only as ONE issue for me is:
> *** What the hell do you think this is??? We had a contract!!! ***
>
> I am very unsatisfied which your magazines conduct in this matter. I
> find it VERY UNPROFESSIONAL and I hope that it does not happen again.
> -------------------------
>
> If you're a subscriber, take notice and don't let them try to pull that
> crap. FWIW, regular issue ~100 pages, this one was 130 and seems to
> include more advertising than usual.
>

Good on you Bill!

Anyway, is that rain on your shoes? ;~)

Bullshit!

---------------

"Mike Marlow" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
Consider yourself lucky you got anything out of them. Your letter to
them
made no sense at all.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

Dave Balderstone wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, tommyboy
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> I think you should just cancel your subscription.
>
> Exactly. Pissing and moaning and writing letters will have little
> effect on the publisher. Pull money, however, and you'll definitely
> have their attention.

Maybe - but the bigger frustration these days is that it seems you really
don't get their attention anymore.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

Right here!

But **sigh** not my concern. I look at the magazine rack and see over
18 magazines at any given time and 'round 'ere, they run $10-$18 each.
Not even a chance when the main article is "How I built My Workbench
for under $500" . I have bought my share of mags in my day but when all
I can do it ick holes in somebody's woodworking guessing articles, it
is not worth the bucks or time.

You'll get there and looks like you have started.

My magazines are hand picked and not many have an article I want to pay
for, anymore.


-------------
"Bill" wrote in message news:[email protected]...
Maybe we should be cc'ing all our posts to
"[email protected]".

Someone must have the nerve, where's m II???

On Mon, 24 Oct 2011 00:08:04 -0700, "Lobby Dosser"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>"Steve" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On 2011-10-21 22:34:23 -0400, "m II" <[email protected]> said:
>>
>Snip of a most interesting take on publishing, for which thank
>you. ----------------
>
>>
>> BTW, with Chris Schwartz having left Popular Woodworking, that plate's
>> looking a little wobbly. I hope Schwartz' new publishing venture is
>> successful, because it looks like his books will be high quality
>> informational sources tergeting (probably) a small readership. I imagine
>> his definition of success will likely be quite different from PW's -- the
>> ability publish a "sturdy" product, to keep the family fed and the lights
>> on as opposed to filling the shareholders' pockets.
>>
>
>Chris Schwartz is now offering two of his books in electronic format. The
>Anarchist's Toolchest

I'll bet he made the FBI and DHS Watchlists due to that title.


>is now available in an epub version and the Moxxon
>book in PDF. At $16.00 the Anarchist is a steal. Like you, I wondered about
>PW's future when he announced he was leaving. Who knew he chafed so much as
>a Corporate Lackey? Would be nice to see him succeed.

Yes, I wish him luck, too.

--
It is characteristic of all deep human problems that they are
not to be approached without some humor and some bewilderment.
-- Freeman Dyson

Exactly! Years ago the computer magazines started the "for full listing
of code see www.bahblahblah.com"instead of putting it in the magazine
and interfering with their advertising space. heaven forbid they would
have to increase their postage a cent by making the magazine fatter or
reducing advertising space. Those days nobody I knew was even on the
Internet. I used a "modem muff" at 300 baud to talk to University
"hunnybun" mainframe. They pushed it to the point of ruining their
publications and promoting the Internet to their own demise.

The magazines appear to have become only teasers to sell you more
information. Front end sales.


---------------
"Puckdropper" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
I dropped another magazine (not woodworking related) for the same
reason.
Some blame the Internet for killing off print, but what's really
killing
them is their coverage is as glossy as their pages. Remember when color
was expensive and photographs were rare? Ideas had to be communicated
with 26 letters, 4 or 5 main punctuation marks and that was it.
If magazines want to survive, they have to be willing to go in depth
with
a subject. A reader should have a sense of "I can do that" instead of
"That's how they do it."


Puckdropper
tiredofspam <nospam.nospam.com> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> I would have to agree. I have stopped all subscriptions. I find that
> they just repeat the same old stuff... Rarely anything of value.
> I am more interested in furniture catalogs, to get ideas, and stuff.
> How to build it, well the magazines rarely get into anything heady...
> So it very basic. Finishing... They never really go deep. Tools...
> they
> miss the mark so many times it's amazing. I think the advertising
> skews
> them...
>
> I will admit that sometimes I see a neat tip in the tips section, but
> usually it's recycled over and over.
>
> Most mags are just advertising.. rehashing... and sometimes bad
> suggestions...

On Sat, 22 Oct 2011 20:17:34 -0500, Roy <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On Sat, 22 Oct 2011 18:07:42 -0700, Larry Jaques
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>OK, amateur statistician mode acknowledged. I did it backwards.
>
>Well, you can now be mathematically pissed they were trying to pull a fast one.

Hey, I already KNEW that.


>>>>>The content pages in Nov are actually 59% more than Oct, while the total pages
>>>>>increased 18.5%. The over all content is actually much better, but is still not
>>>>>the double you are being charged for.
>>>>
>>>>Back away from the hookah and keep your hands in sight, sir.
>>>
>>>I think you're suffering from that metric system all y'all use.
>>
>>LJ--carefully inching away...
>
>Now doesn't that sound more natural than carefully millimetering away??

Only because I grew up working in inches. I find both systems
workable.

--
...in order that a man may be happy, it is
necessary that he should not only be capable
of his work, but a good judge of his work.
-- John Ruskin

Mike Marlow wrote:
> Bill wrote:
>> My recent issue arrived with a separate page explaining that "this is
>> a special issue and that it will count as two of your subscriber
>> issues, and the duration of your subscription will be adjusted
>> accordingly."
>>
>> Here is my email reply:
>>
>> -------------------------
>> Dear The Family Handyman,
>>
>> I had to laugh when I read the insert that you provided my my
>> magazine: " .. We are treating it as a special issue that will count
>> towards two of your subscriber issuses."
>> except for the fact that you're wasting my time.
>>
>> My reason for asking you to treat it only as ONE issue for me is:
>> *** What the hell do you think this is??? We had a contract!!! ***
>>
>> I am very unsatisfied which your magazines conduct in this matter. I
>> find it VERY UNPROFESSIONAL and I hope that it does not happen again.
>> -------------------------
>>
>> If you're a subscriber, take notice and don't let them try to pull
>> that crap. FWIW, regular issue ~100 pages, this one was 130 and
>> seems to include more advertising than usual.
>
> Consider yourself lucky you got anything out of them. Your letter to them
> made no sense at all.

What part was difficult to understand? I paid them in advance for 12
monthly issues than they reduced were going to reduce my subscription to
11. I was PO'ed that they had the audacity to do that. I don't want to
see the same from them or any other magazines going forward. It would
be different if they had asked. The form letter reply I got back was
pitiful too.

Mike Marlow wrote:

> Consider yourself lucky you got anything out of them. Your letter to them
> made no sense at all.
>

Well, technically it made me about 100 sense I hardly care about. I
wonder how much it improves their bottom line for the year...I'm hoping
in the end, not much. If they can't treat their customers with respect
and stay in business, they won't have one.

Robatoy wrote:
> On Oct 19, 8:02 pm, Bill<[email protected]> wrote:
>> My recent issue arrived with a separate page explaining that "this is a
>> special issue and that it will count as two of your subscriber issues,
>> and the duration of your subscription will be adjusted accordingly."
>>
>> Here is my email reply:
>>
>> -------------------------
>> Dear The Family Handyman,
>>
>> I had to laugh when I read the insert that you provided my my magazine:
>> " .. We are treating it as a special issue that will count towards
>> two of your subscriber issuses."
>> except for the fact that you're wasting my time.
>>
>> My reason for asking you to treat it only as ONE issue for me is:
>> *** What the hell do you think this is??? We had a contract!!! ***
>>
>> I am very unsatisfied which your magazines conduct in this matter. I
>> find it VERY UNPROFESSIONAL and I hope that it does not happen again.
>> -------------------------
>>
>> If you're a subscriber, take notice and don't let them try to pull that
>> crap. FWIW, regular issue ~100 pages, this one was 130 and seems to
>> include more advertising than usual.
>
> Well, yannow.... it's Family Handyman Mag, bro'.

Hey, I checked, found their forum, and find that there's a whole bunch
of folks who appear upset about! I'm going to go read what they think!
LOL! And I'll bring my letter with me! : )

http://community.familyhandyman.com/tfh_forums/f/37/t/1771.aspx

Mike Marlow wrote:

> Consider yourself lucky you got anything out of them. Your letter to them
> made no sense at all.
>

I'd post my reply at their forum, but I'm not willing to register.
Here is someone else's reponse (same sentiments as mine):

I don't see another forum for this, but anyone happy with TFHM
shortening your subscription, unilaterally? I mean we pay for a
subscription for a set # of issues and they decide to offer a double
sized issue and shorten the subscription because of THEIR decision. I
have NO problems with paying for the double issue when I go to renew the
subscription, it will only minimally increase the subscription rate.
But to decided to, effectively, increase the subscription rate AFTER I
thought it was "locked-in" by buying it in advance, well, I find that
distasteful.

Am I alone?

On 10/20/2011 6:00 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Wed, 19 Oct 2011 20:02:00 -0400, Bill<[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> My recent issue arrived with a separate page explaining that "this is a
>> special issue and that it will count as two of your subscriber issues,
>> and the duration of your subscription will be adjusted accordingly."
>>
>>
>> Here is my email reply:
>>
>> -------------------------
>> Dear The Family Handyman,
>>
>> I had to laugh when I read the insert that you provided my my magazine:
>> " .. We are treating it as a special issue that will count towards
>> two of your subscriber issuses."
>> except for the fact that you're wasting my time.
>>
>> My reason for asking you to treat it only as ONE issue for me is:
>> *** What the hell do you think this is??? We had a contract!!! ***
>>
>> I am very unsatisfied which your magazines conduct in this matter. I
>> find it VERY UNPROFESSIONAL and I hope that it does not happen again.
>> -------------------------
>>
>> If you're a subscriber, take notice and don't let them try to pull that
>> crap. FWIW, regular issue ~100 pages, this one was 130 and seems to
>> include more advertising than usual.
>
> September's issue was 108 pages, the "big new" October was 128 pages.
> I haven't yet tallied up the content v. ad space yet and written to
> them, but I think I'll ream them like I did the idiot at Netflix. Who
> ARE these people?

That's the spirit!!! : )



>
> --
> Good ideas alter the power balance in relationships, that is why
> good ideas are always initially resisted. Good ideas come with a
> heavy burden. Which is why so few people have them. So few people
> can handle it.
> -- Hugh Macleod

On 10/20/2011 6:52 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> Bill wrote:
>
>>
>> I don't see another forum for this, but anyone happy with TFHM
>> shortening your subscription, unilaterally? I mean we pay for a
>> subscription for a set # of issues and they decide to offer a double
>> sized issue and shorten the subscription because of THEIR decision. I
>> have NO problems with paying for the double issue when I go to renew
>> the subscription, it will only minimally increase the subscription
>> rate. But to decided to, effectively, increase the subscription rate
>> AFTER I thought it was "locked-in" by buying it in advance, well, I
>> find that distasteful.
>>
>> Am I alone?
>
> Just for the record Bill - I do agree with you.
>

Pershiate it!

On 10/20/2011 7:15 AM, Leon wrote:
> On 10/19/2011 7:02 PM, Bill wrote:
>> My recent issue arrived with a separate page explaining that "this is a
>> special issue and that it will count as two of your subscriber issues,
>> and the duration of your subscription will be adjusted accordingly."
>>
>>
>> Here is my email reply:
>>
>> -------------------------
>> Dear The Family Handyman,
>>
>> I had to laugh when I read the insert that you provided my my magazine:
>> " .. We are treating it as a special issue that will count towards
>> two of your subscriber issuses."
>> except for the fact that you're wasting my time.
>>
>> My reason for asking you to treat it only as ONE issue for me is:
>> *** What the hell do you think this is??? We had a contract!!! ***
>>
>> I am very unsatisfied which your magazines conduct in this matter. I
>> find it VERY UNPROFESSIONAL and I hope that it does not happen again.
>> -------------------------
>>
>> If you're a subscriber, take notice and don't let them try to pull that
>> crap. FWIW, regular issue ~100 pages, this one was 130 and seems to
>> include more advertising than usual.
>>
>
> Good on you Bill!
>
> Anyway, is that rain on your shoes? ;~)


I hope so!!! We'll never know for sure. : )

On 10/20/2011 9:45 AM, tommyboy wrote:
> On Wed, 19 Oct 2011 20:02:00 -0400, Bill<[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> My recent issue arrived with a separate page explaining that "this is a
>> special issue and that it will count as two of your subscriber issues,
>> and the duration of your subscription will be adjusted accordingly."
>>
>>
>> Here is my email reply:
>>
>> -------------------------
>> Dear The Family Handyman,
>>
>> I had to laugh when I read the insert that you provided my my magazine:
>> " .. We are treating it as a special issue that will count towards
>> two of your subscriber issuses."
>> except for the fact that you're wasting my time.
>>
>> My reason for asking you to treat it only as ONE issue for me is:
>> *** What the hell do you think this is??? We had a contract!!! ***
>>
>> I am very unsatisfied which your magazines conduct in this matter. I
>> find it VERY UNPROFESSIONAL and I hope that it does not happen again.
>> -------------------------
>>
>> If you're a subscriber, take notice and don't let them try to pull that
>> crap. FWIW, regular issue ~100 pages, this one was 130 and seems to
>> include more advertising than usual.
>
> If I were the person at FH reading your missive I would disregard it
> and file in the 'lunatic fringe' basket. Perhaps a better thought out
> response which contained fewer vestigial question marks, asterisks and
> exclamation points would have made you come across as a valuable and
> believable customer. I think you should just cancel your subscription.
> Financial responses go farther towards making a point than rhetoric,
> capital letters and vulgarity. Just sayin'

My response was reasonably thought out. I found their action/conduct
egregious!!! It's not easy to convey that through email, but I did the
best I could in 3 sentences. I have other fish to fry.,,

I hope my message gets to the *Lunatic/Idiot* that started this!
I asked them to publish my message in the "letters to the editor"
section of their next issue. Let's nip this in the bud before other
magazines follow suit.

On 10/20/2011 9:45 AM, tommyboy wrote:

> If I were the person at FH reading your missive I would disregard it
> and file in the 'lunatic fringe' basket. Perhaps a better thought out
> response which contained fewer vestigial question marks, asterisks and
> exclamation points would have made you come across as a valuable and
> believable customer.


I think you should just cancel your subscription.
> Financial responses go farther towards making a point than rhetoric,
> capital letters and vulgarity. Just sayin'

I don't normally give up on things that fast. I not afraid to try to
set them straight though. You know what they say about opinions....

On 10/20/2011 11:39 AM, Dave Balderstone wrote:
> In article<[email protected]>, tommyboy
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> I think you should just cancel your subscription.
>
> Exactly. Pissing and moaning and writing letters will have little
> effect on the publisher. Pull money, however, and you'll definitely
> have their attention.
>

And then what. Being right isn't everything. They just need to remember
there contract.

On 10/20/2011 12:25 PM, Bill wrote:
> On 10/20/2011 11:39 AM, Dave Balderstone wrote:
>> In article<[email protected]>, tommyboy
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> I think you should just cancel your subscription.
>>
>> Exactly. Pissing and moaning and writing letters will have little
>> effect on the publisher. Pull money, however, and you'll definitely
>> have their attention.
>>
>
> And then what. Being right isn't everything. They just need to remember
> there contract.

I should have said:

And then what? Being right isn't everything. They just need to remember
their contract.

Leon wrote:
> On 10/20/2011 10:39 AM, Dave Balderstone wrote:
>> In article<[email protected]>, tommyboy
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> I think you should just cancel your subscription.
>>
>> Exactly. Pissing and moaning and writing letters will have little
>> effect on the publisher. Pull money, however, and you'll definitely
>> have their attention.
>>
>
> You will NOT get their attention unless yo do both. Complain and demand
> a refuud of the remainder.

If I do that, then I won't get to see if they print my letter in the
next issue. I've already written them twice. And Larry Jaques is going
to write to them, and at least one other person posted a similar message
at their web site. I want to read the "the apology" in the next issue.
At least they learned some of us are paying attention.

On 10/20/11 9:53 PM, Leon wrote:
> You could buy it at the news stand.

Or you could get all the same info in the interwebs.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 10/21/2011 10:15 AM, Swingman wrote:
> On 10/19/2011 7:02 PM, Bill wrote:
>> My recent issue arrived with a separate page explaining that "this is a
>> special issue and that it will count as two of your subscriber issues,
>> and the duration of your subscription will be adjusted accordingly."
>
> I got the same subscription. The difference is in how you use it
>
> My MIL apparently thinks, because I have more "tools" than anyone else
> she knows, that I'm a "handyman", that that is what I do, and therefore
> the subscription to TFHM she blesses me with yearly, for the last ten
> years just tickles me to death, which it indeed sometimes does.
>
> Appropriately, the mag goes straight to the shitter each month, where it
> uniquely belongs. Much better than the Sears catalog when you find out
> at the last minute that the pups have chewed up the TP, again ... just
> wrinkle it real good and you're in business.
>
> That extra twenty pages was a BIG plus in that regard.
>

LOL -- What do you want for a buck an issue? I figured I wasn't the
only one here with a subscription. Enjoy those glossy pages.

On 10/21/2011 10:50 AM, Leon wrote:
> On 10/21/2011 9:15 AM, Swingman wrote:
>> On 10/19/2011 7:02 PM, Bill wrote:
>>> My recent issue arrived with a separate page explaining that "this is a
>>> special issue and that it will count as two of your subscriber issues,
>>> and the duration of your subscription will be adjusted accordingly."
>>
>> I got the same subscription. The difference is in how you use it
>>
>> My MIL apparently thinks, because I have more "tools" than anyone else
>> she knows, that I'm a "handyman", that that is what I do, and therefore
>> the subscription to TFHM she blesses me with yearly, for the last ten
>> years just tickles me to death, which it indeed sometimes does.
>>
>> Appropriately, the mag goes straight to the shitter each month, where it
>> uniquely belongs. Much better than the Sears catalog when you find out
>> at the last minute that the pups have chewed up the TP, again ... just
>> wrinkle it real good and you're in business.
>>
>> That extra twenty pages was a BIG plus in that regard.
>>
>
> WOW! You should submit those comments directly to the magazine. I bet
> they would appreciate hearing from a reader that gets so much use out of
> their publication...
>
> Now I dare you to do so. ;~)

Maybe we should be cc'ing all our posts to
"[email protected]".

Someone must have the nerve, where's m II???

On 10/21/2011 11:33 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Fri, 21 Oct 2011 09:50:39 -0500, Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> wrote:
>
>> On 10/21/2011 9:15 AM, Swingman wrote:
>>> On 10/19/2011 7:02 PM, Bill wrote:
>>>> My recent issue arrived with a separate page explaining that "this is a
>>>> special issue and that it will count as two of your subscriber issues,
>>>> and the duration of your subscription will be adjusted accordingly."
>>>
>>> I got the same subscription. The difference is in how you use it
>>>
>>> My MIL apparently thinks, because I have more "tools" than anyone else
>>> she knows, that I'm a "handyman", that that is what I do, and therefore
>>> the subscription to TFHM she blesses me with yearly, for the last ten
>>> years just tickles me to death, which it indeed sometimes does.
>>>
>>> Appropriately, the mag goes straight to the shitter each month, where it
>>> uniquely belongs. Much better than the Sears catalog when you find out
>>> at the last minute that the pups have chewed up the TP, again ... just
>>> wrinkle it real good and you're in business.
>>>
>>> That extra twenty pages was a BIG plus in that regard.
>>>
>>
>> WOW! You should submit those comments directly to the magazine. I bet
>> they would appreciate hearing from a reader that gets so much use out of
>> their publication...
>>
>> Now I dare you to do so. ;~)
>
> I don't believe that he utilizes the magazine for that particular use.
> Glossy stock is a crappy crapper paper.
>
> My research revealed this: The Oct issue had 57ish pages of ads in a
> 108 page mag. The controversial Nov issue had 47ish pages of ads in a
> 128 page mag. So, content pages totaled 47.2% in the Oct issue and
> 56.5% in the Nov issue. They want double the "price" for a measly
> 9.3% content increase (which they touted as double)? Feh!
>

Maybe you should forward you stats to [email protected]???
Let 'em know we feel like we have wet shoes! ; )



> --
> Happiness lies in the joy of achievement and the thrill of creative effort.
> -- Franklin D. Roosevelt

Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Fri, 21 Oct 2011 12:12:21 -0400, Bill<[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> On 10/21/2011 11:33 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>>> On Fri, 21 Oct 2011 09:50:39 -0500, Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 10/21/2011 9:15 AM, Swingman wrote:
>>>>> On 10/19/2011 7:02 PM, Bill wrote:
>>>>>> My recent issue arrived with a separate page explaining that "this is a
>>>>>> special issue and that it will count as two of your subscriber issues,
>>>>>> and the duration of your subscription will be adjusted accordingly."
>>>>>
>>>>> I got the same subscription. The difference is in how you use it
>>>>>
>>>>> My MIL apparently thinks, because I have more "tools" than anyone else
>>>>> she knows, that I'm a "handyman", that that is what I do, and therefore
>>>>> the subscription to TFHM she blesses me with yearly, for the last ten
>>>>> years just tickles me to death, which it indeed sometimes does.
>>>>>
>>>>> Appropriately, the mag goes straight to the shitter each month, where it
>>>>> uniquely belongs. Much better than the Sears catalog when you find out
>>>>> at the last minute that the pups have chewed up the TP, again ... just
>>>>> wrinkle it real good and you're in business.
>>>>>
>>>>> That extra twenty pages was a BIG plus in that regard.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> WOW! You should submit those comments directly to the magazine. I bet
>>>> they would appreciate hearing from a reader that gets so much use out of
>>>> their publication...
>>>>
>>>> Now I dare you to do so. ;~)
>>>
>>> I don't believe that he utilizes the magazine for that particular use.
>>> Glossy stock is a crappy crapper paper.
>>>
>>> My research revealed this: The Oct issue had 57ish pages of ads in a
>>> 108 page mag. The controversial Nov issue had 47ish pages of ads in a
>>> 128 page mag. So, content pages totaled 47.2% in the Oct issue and
>>> 56.5% in the Nov issue. They want double the "price" for a measly
>>> 9.3% content increase (which they touted as double)? Feh!
>>>
>>
>> Maybe you should forward you stats to [email protected]???
>> Let 'em know we feel like we have wet shoes! ; )
>
> I'll do that once I've read both issues. I fully intend to retain my
> option to -not- pay double for a single issue.

Yeah, don't forget to read *both* of 'em! lol



>
> --
> Happiness lies in the joy of achievement and the thrill of creative effort.
> -- Franklin D. Roosevelt

"Larry Jaques" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 19 Oct 2011 20:02:00 -0400, Bill <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>>My recent issue arrived with a separate page explaining that "this is a
>>special issue and that it will count as two of your subscriber issues,
>>and the duration of your subscription will be adjusted accordingly."
>>
>>
>>Here is my email reply:
>>
>>-------------------------
>>Dear The Family Handyman,
>>
>>I had to laugh when I read the insert that you provided my my magazine:
>>" .. We are treating it as a special issue that will count towards
>>two of your subscriber issuses."
>>except for the fact that you're wasting my time.
>>
>>My reason for asking you to treat it only as ONE issue for me is:
>>*** What the hell do you think this is??? We had a contract!!! ***
>>
>>I am very unsatisfied which your magazines conduct in this matter. I
>>find it VERY UNPROFESSIONAL and I hope that it does not happen again.
>>-------------------------
>>
>>If you're a subscriber, take notice and don't let them try to pull that
>>crap. FWIW, regular issue ~100 pages, this one was 130 and seems to
>>include more advertising than usual.
>
> September's issue was 108 pages, the "big new" October was 128 pages.
> I haven't yet tallied up the content v. ad space yet and written to
> them, but I think I'll ream them like I did the idiot at Netflix. Who
> ARE these people?


Corporate America.
--
"I'm the man who broke the bank at Monte Carlo ..."

"Steve" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 2011-10-21 22:34:23 -0400, "m II" <[email protected]> said:
>
Snip of a most interesting take on publishing, for which thank
you. ----------------

>
> BTW, with Chris Schwartz having left Popular Woodworking, that plate's
> looking a little wobbly. I hope Schwartz' new publishing venture is
> successful, because it looks like his books will be high quality
> informational sources tergeting (probably) a small readership. I imagine
> his definition of success will likely be quite different from PW's -- the
> ability publish a "sturdy" product, to keep the family fed and the lights
> on as opposed to filling the shareholders' pockets.
>

Chris Schwartz is now offering two of his books in electronic format. The
Anarchist's Toolchest is now available in an epub version and the Moxxon
book in PDF. At $16.00 the Anarchist is a steal. Like you, I wondered about
PW's future when he announced he was leaving. Who knew he chafed so much as
a Corporate Lackey? Would be nice to see him succeed.

--
"I'm the man who broke the bank at Monte Carlo ..."

"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
On Oct 22, 10:06 pm, Larry Jaques <[email protected]>
wrote:
> On Sat, 22 Oct 2011 20:17:34 -0500, Roy <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >On Sat, 22 Oct 2011 18:07:42 -0700, Larry Jaques
> ><[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >>OK, amateur statistician mode acknowledged. I did it backwards.
>
> >Well, you can now be mathematically pissed they were trying to pull a
> >fast one.
>
> Hey, I already KNEW that.
>
> >>>>>The content pages in Nov are actually 59% more than Oct, while the
> >>>>>total pages
> >>>>>increased 18.5%. The over all content is actually much better, but is
> >>>>>still not
> >>>>>the double you are being charged for.
>
> >>>>Back away from the hookah and keep your hands in sight, sir.
>
> >>>I think you're suffering from that metric system all y'all use.
>
> >>LJ--carefully inching away...
>
> >Now doesn't that sound more natural than carefully millimetering away??
>
> Only because I grew up working in inches. I find both systems
> workable.
>
> --
> ...in order that a man may be happy, it is
> necessary that he should not only be capable
> of his work, but a good judge of his work.
> -- John Ruskin

Punchline: "*singing* "Pardon me Roy. is that the cat that chewed your
new shoes?"
Weave your own joke around it....
----------------------------------------------

That one was almost as bad as "Carp to Carp Walleting".

--
"I'm the man who broke the bank at Monte Carlo ..."

Lobby Dosser wrote:
> "Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> On Oct 22, 10:06 pm, Larry Jaques <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>> On Sat, 22 Oct 2011 20:17:34 -0500, Roy <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >On Sat, 22 Oct 2011 18:07:42 -0700, Larry Jaques
>> ><[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >>OK, amateur statistician mode acknowledged. I did it backwards.
>>
>> >Well, you can now be mathematically pissed they were trying to pull a
>> >fast one.
>>
>> Hey, I already KNEW that.
>>
>> >>>>>The content pages in Nov are actually 59% more than Oct, while
>> the >>>>>total pages
>> >>>>>increased 18.5%. The over all content is actually much better,
>> but is >>>>>still not
>> >>>>>the double you are being charged for.
>>
>> >>>>Back away from the hookah and keep your hands in sight, sir.
>>
>> >>>I think you're suffering from that metric system all y'all use.
>>
>> >>LJ--carefully inching away...
>>
>> >Now doesn't that sound more natural than carefully millimetering away??
>>
>> Only because I grew up working in inches. I find both systems
>> workable.
>>
>> --
>> ...in order that a man may be happy, it is
>> necessary that he should not only be capable
>> of his work, but a good judge of his work.
>> -- John Ruskin
>
> Punchline: "*singing* "Pardon me Roy. is that the cat that chewed your
> new shoes?"
> Weave your own joke around it....
> ----------------------------------------------
>
> That one was almost as bad as "Carp to Carp Walleting".
>

That's a good one. I honestly didn't get it the first time I read it.
It wasn't until I read it a few hours later, that I could groan... : )

[email protected] wrote:

> Be aware that these weasels are into everything and are part of the
> corporate culture.
>
> You could call a lawyer to find out if this breach of contract and if
> so, bring a class action suit forward. If your not into that, then
> spread the word to all media sources at your disposal.
>
> P
>

I figured if I told 2 friends, and each of them told 2 friends, etc.,
then the person/people who made the decision would be destined to regret
it. I'm not into creating litigation, but feel free.

Bill wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
>
>> Be aware that these weasels are into everything and are part of the
>> corporate culture.
>>
>> You could call a lawyer to find out if this breach of contract and if
>> so, bring a class action suit forward. If your not into that, then
>> spread the word to all media sources at your disposal.
>>
>> P
>>
>
> I figured if I told 2 friends, and each of them told 2 friends, etc.,
> then the person/people who made the decision would be destined to regret
> it. I'm not into creating litigation, but feel free.


We're up to at least 19. Here are more written opinions:

http://voiceacomplaint.com/2011/10/family-handyman-magazine-scam/

"Larry Jaques" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Mon, 24 Oct 2011 00:08:04 -0700, "Lobby Dosser"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>"Steve" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]...
>>> On 2011-10-21 22:34:23 -0400, "m II" <[email protected]> said:
>>>
>>Snip of a most interesting take on publishing, for which thank
>>you. ----------------
>>
>>>
>>> BTW, with Chris Schwartz having left Popular Woodworking, that plate's
>>> looking a little wobbly. I hope Schwartz' new publishing venture is
>>> successful, because it looks like his books will be high quality
>>> informational sources tergeting (probably) a small readership. I imagine
>>> his definition of success will likely be quite different from PW's --
>>> the
>>> ability publish a "sturdy" product, to keep the family fed and the
>>> lights
>>> on as opposed to filling the shareholders' pockets.
>>>
>>
>>Chris Schwartz is now offering two of his books in electronic format. The
>>Anarchist's Toolchest
>
> I'll bet he made the FBI and DHS Watchlists due to that title.
>

HA! Hadn't thought about that. Hey, they probably bought a few copies!

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 19 Oct 2011 20:02:00 -0400, Bill <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>>My recent issue arrived with a separate page explaining that "this is a
>>special issue and that it will count as two of your subscriber issues,
>>and the duration of your subscription will be adjusted accordingly."
>>
>>
> They hired an MBA who showed them how to save money and bullshit you
> about what great deal your getting. What they were attempting to do
> is, tell you to go hell and make you look forward to the trip.
>
> I watched an ad on TV where a guy claimed to have saved an olive
> producer 86,000$ by leaving one olive out of the jar. In no nonsense
> terms, he shorted the customer. He was so proud of himself, he was
> advertising his service.
>
> In a Ford boardroom, an MBA very seriously asked why a wheel needed
> five bolts to hold a wheel on, when one would do. His remarks were
> met with incredulous awe. Apparently, he demonstrated the acme of
> know nothing ignorance and stupidity to the wrong crowd.

One WILL do the job. Problem being it might be more expensive than five.

Lobby Dosser wrote:
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> On Wed, 19 Oct 2011 20:02:00 -0400, Bill <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> My recent issue arrived with a separate page explaining that "this is a
>>> special issue and that it will count as two of your subscriber issues,
>>> and the duration of your subscription will be adjusted accordingly."
>>>
>>>
>> They hired an MBA who showed them how to save money and bullshit you
>> about what great deal your getting. What they were attempting to do
>> is, tell you to go hell and make you look forward to the trip.
>>
>> I watched an ad on TV where a guy claimed to have saved an olive
>> producer 86,000$ by leaving one olive out of the jar. In no nonsense
>> terms, he shorted the customer. He was so proud of himself, he was
>> advertising his service.
>>
>> In a Ford boardroom, an MBA very seriously asked why a wheel needed
>> five bolts to hold a wheel on, when one would do. His remarks were
>> met with incredulous awe. Apparently, he demonstrated the acme of
>> know nothing ignorance and stupidity to the wrong crowd.
>
> One WILL do the job. Problem being it might be more expensive than five.

If it was a good solution, it seems like the Indy-500 racers would have
went with it, because it sounds faster!

Steve wrote:
> On 2011-10-25 19:23:31 -0400, Bill <[email protected]> said:
>
>> I figured if I told 2 friends, and each of them told 2 friends, etc.,
>
> The old saw is that a satisfied customer tells three others; a
> dissatisfied customer tells ten. Don't know of research to back this up,
> but it does feel right. doesn't it?
>

Yeah, almost makes me feel bad about the folks that have to work
"customer care". THEY may end up with the loudest voices of all.

"Bill" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Lobby Dosser wrote:
>> <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> On Wed, 19 Oct 2011 20:02:00 -0400, Bill <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> My recent issue arrived with a separate page explaining that "this is a
>>>> special issue and that it will count as two of your subscriber issues,
>>>> and the duration of your subscription will be adjusted accordingly."
>>>>
>>>>
>>> They hired an MBA who showed them how to save money and bullshit you
>>> about what great deal your getting. What they were attempting to do
>>> is, tell you to go hell and make you look forward to the trip.
>>>
>>> I watched an ad on TV where a guy claimed to have saved an olive
>>> producer 86,000$ by leaving one olive out of the jar. In no nonsense
>>> terms, he shorted the customer. He was so proud of himself, he was
>>> advertising his service.
>>>
>>> In a Ford boardroom, an MBA very seriously asked why a wheel needed
>>> five bolts to hold a wheel on, when one would do. His remarks were
>>> met with incredulous awe. Apparently, he demonstrated the acme of
>>> know nothing ignorance and stupidity to the wrong crowd.
>>
>> One WILL do the job. Problem being it might be more expensive than five.
>
> If it was a good solution, it seems like the Indy-500 racers would have
> went with it, because it sounds faster!


Yeah, but the cost of those wire wheels will more than eat an extra 20 nuts
and bolts ....

--
"I'm the man who broke the bank at Monte Carlo ..."

On Wed, 19 Oct 2011 20:02:00 -0400, Bill <[email protected]>
wrote:

>My recent issue arrived with a separate page explaining that "this is a
>special issue and that it will count as two of your subscriber issues,
>and the duration of your subscription will be adjusted accordingly."
>
>
>Here is my email reply:
>
>-------------------------
>Dear The Family Handyman,
>
>I had to laugh when I read the insert that you provided my my magazine:
>" .. We are treating it as a special issue that will count towards
>two of your subscriber issuses."
>except for the fact that you're wasting my time.
>
>My reason for asking you to treat it only as ONE issue for me is:
>*** What the hell do you think this is??? We had a contract!!! ***
>
>I am very unsatisfied which your magazines conduct in this matter. I
>find it VERY UNPROFESSIONAL and I hope that it does not happen again.
>-------------------------
>
>If you're a subscriber, take notice and don't let them try to pull that
>crap. FWIW, regular issue ~100 pages, this one was 130 and seems to
>include more advertising than usual.

September's issue was 108 pages, the "big new" October was 128 pages.
I haven't yet tallied up the content v. ad space yet and written to
them, but I think I'll ream them like I did the idiot at Netflix. Who
ARE these people?

--
Good ideas alter the power balance in relationships, that is why
good ideas are always initially resisted. Good ideas come with a
heavy burden. Which is why so few people have them. So few people
can handle it.
-- Hugh Macleod

On 22 Oct 2011 01:50:41 GMT, Puckdropper
<puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com> wrote:

>tiredofspam <nospam.nospam.com> wrote in
>news:[email protected]:
>
>> I would have to agree. I have stopped all subscriptions. I find that
>> they just repeat the same old stuff... Rarely anything of value.
>> I am more interested in furniture catalogs, to get ideas, and stuff.
>> How to build it, well the magazines rarely get into anything heady...
>> So it very basic. Finishing... They never really go deep. Tools... they
>> miss the mark so many times it's amazing. I think the advertising skews
>> them...
>>
>> I will admit that sometimes I see a neat tip in the tips section, but
>> usually it's recycled over and over.
>>
>> Most mags are just advertising.. rehashing... and sometimes bad
>> suggestions...
>
>I dropped another magazine (not woodworking related) for the same reason.
>Some blame the Internet for killing off print, but what's really killing
>them is their coverage is as glossy as their pages. Remember when color
>was expensive and photographs were rare? Ideas had to be communicated
>with 26 letters, 4 or 5 main punctuation marks and that was it.
>
>If magazines want to survive, they have to be willing to go in depth with
>a subject. A reader should have a sense of "I can do that" instead of
>"That's how they do it."

Yeah, that's why I stopped reading several magazines, too. That and
that they either doubled their price for the glossed-over crap or
halved their annual issues.

I still take PopWood and TFH because they're cheap and of occasional
interest. The ads are half the reason I continue them, too. I like to
keep up with the technology of jigs and tools, and have utilized the
concepts they bring to make my own setups or alter the way I do
things. I get 2 or 3 years of mags for $10 total on eBay.

I get several trade mags free of charge, and they're mostly worth the
price. <sigh> I laugh at the list price JLC (Journal of Light
Construction) wants for their scripts, but take it for a year when it
goes on 1/4 price sale. It's pretty good, as are FWW and FHB, but
they're not worth full price to me. I got the JLC mag collection on
CD for 1/4 the price FWW or FHB wants for theirs, and it feels more
germane to me than FWWs. I don't do a lot of (hah, ANY!) period
furniture with 5,000 pieces of minute adornments.

(YMMV, Leon.)

--
...in order that a man may be happy, it is
necessary that he should not only be capable
of his work, but a good judge of his work.
-- John Ruskin

On Fri, 21 Oct 2011 08:33:10 -0700, Larry Jaques
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Fri, 21 Oct 2011 09:50:39 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>wrote:
>
>>On 10/21/2011 9:15 AM, Swingman wrote:
>>> On 10/19/2011 7:02 PM, Bill wrote:
>>>> My recent issue arrived with a separate page explaining that "this is a
>>>> special issue and that it will count as two of your subscriber issues,
>>>> and the duration of your subscription will be adjusted accordingly."
>>>
>>> I got the same subscription. The difference is in how you use it
>>>
>>> My MIL apparently thinks, because I have more "tools" than anyone else
>>> she knows, that I'm a "handyman", that that is what I do, and therefore
>>> the subscription to TFHM she blesses me with yearly, for the last ten
>>> years just tickles me to death, which it indeed sometimes does.
>>>
>>> Appropriately, the mag goes straight to the shitter each month, where it
>>> uniquely belongs. Much better than the Sears catalog when you find out
>>> at the last minute that the pups have chewed up the TP, again ... just
>>> wrinkle it real good and you're in business.
>>>
>>> That extra twenty pages was a BIG plus in that regard.
>>>
>>
>>WOW! You should submit those comments directly to the magazine. I bet
>>they would appreciate hearing from a reader that gets so much use out of
>>their publication...
>>
>>Now I dare you to do so. ;~)
>
>I don't believe that he utilizes the magazine for that particular use.
>Glossy stock is a crappy crapper paper.
>
>My research revealed this: The Oct issue had 57ish pages of ads in a
>108 page mag. The controversial Nov issue had 47ish pages of ads in a
>128 page mag. So, content pages totaled 47.2% in the Oct issue and
>56.5% in the Nov issue. They want double the "price" for a measly
>9.3% content increase (which they touted as double)? Feh!

Your calculations are correct, but meaningless since they just compare the
percentage of ad pages in two issues. You want to compare the total number of
content pages, regardless of total pages in an issue. Using your figures and
some cyphering I calculate the Oct issue had 51 pages of content and the Nov
issue had 81.

The content pages in Nov are actually 59% more than Oct, while the total pages
increased 18.5%. The over all content is actually much better, but is still not
the double you are being charged for.

IMO, you've already got the best advice, which is to cancel the subscription and
demand a cash refund and tell them why. I had a subscription to the magazine
sometime back in the 70's. I let it lapse after a year or two. I wish now I'd
spent the money back then on a Fine Woodworking subscription instead.

On Sat, 22 Oct 2011 18:07:42 -0700, Larry Jaques
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Sat, 22 Oct 2011 19:45:31 -0500, Roy <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 22 Oct 2011 06:00:06 -0700, Larry Jaques
>><[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>>>You want to compare the total number of
>>>>content pages, regardless of total pages in an issue.
>>>
>>>I did, and came up with percentages, which is what I was after.
>>>
>>>
>>>>Using your figures and
>>>>some cyphering I calculate the Oct issue had 51 pages of content and the Nov
>>>>issue had 81.
>>>
>>>Huh? 47.2% of 108 pages is not 51, and 56.5% of 128 is not 81 in
>>>anyone's book. What -are- you smoking, sir?
>>>
>>
>>108 minus 57ish leaves 51 pages of content, according to your original post, for
>>October. 128 minus 47ish leaves 81 pages of content for November. Therefor the
>>total content increase is 81/51 = 1.59(ish), multiply by 100 to get percent and
>>it becomes 159%, a 59% increase over the content pages from October.
>
>OK, amateur statistician mode acknowledged. I did it backwards.

Well, you can now be mathematically pissed they were trying to pull a fast one.
>
>
>>>>The content pages in Nov are actually 59% more than Oct, while the total pages
>>>>increased 18.5%. The over all content is actually much better, but is still not
>>>>the double you are being charged for.
>>>
>>>Back away from the hookah and keep your hands in sight, sir.
>>
>>I think you're suffering from that metric system all y'all use.
>
>LJ--carefully inching away...

Now doesn't that sound more natural than carefully millimetering away??

Maybe you can explain why the magazine subscriptions sell for less than
quarter the newsstand price when they have to add shipping (postage
usually) and additional packaging (wrapper)

Do advertisers think that newsstand copies are not read by consumers,
trashed, and only subscriptions count?


---------

"Steve" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
Close, but you haven't managed to light your cigar.

In general, print publishing has two revenue streams: circulation and
advertising. In my newspaper days, the rule of thumb was that 40% of
the revenue came from subscribers/newsstand. That paid for your
production costs. Advertising paid everything else, including salaries
and profit for the owners/investors.

Percentages may have flucuated since then, but as example, what is the
impact of a cost increase in paper? Yes, production costs have risen.
So, do you A.) raise the price of the paper, or B.) cut the space
devoted to news, reallocating that space to ads as your "revenue
enhancer"?

Before you choose one or the other, consider the impact of each choice.
Cutting the "news hole" makes the paper less vital as a news source,
and will probably result in a drop in subscribers. Raising the price
will probably result in a number of subscribers deciding the damn
thing's too expensive, even if the amount of news space remains the
same.

But selling more ads will bring more revenue... until the circulation
decline convinces the advertisers they're no longer reaching the number
of readers that justifies the current ad rates. Hence, the publisher
will trumpet lower rates -- making them "a better advertsing value than
ever!"

Back in the day, there wasn't choice C.) rehance the reader's value
with your on-line presence... but there was the good old editorial
calendar. "Let's see," the publisher tells the sales manager, "January,
we can do finishes; February will be our "annual" tool issue; March
will feature projects the reader can build to take advanage of the
April showers... Now get your bos out there and sell some ads, because
we're going to give those advertisers' products some excellent
editorial support!"

We do now have choice C, but a certain fine woodworking magazine has
chosen to SELL its on-line presence to its readers. Now, that's pissed
off a certain percentage of readers who "know" on-line should be an
enhancement, rather than a revenue stream. Conversely, it's convinced
some readers they no longer need the printed offering.

Well, this does keep the bean counters in jobs -- for now, anyway --
determining which option or combination of options will result in the
greatest revenue, or at least in the least damage to current revenue
models.

The trick remians the same: offer a product that will draw readers (and
advertisers, most likely), find a way to pay for it, and keep the
plates spinning on those spindly little sticks.

BTW, with Chris Schwartz having left Popular Woodworking, that plate's
looking a little wobbly. I hope Schwartz' new publishing venture is
successful, because it looks like his books will be high quality
informational sources tergeting (probably) a small readership. I
imagine his definition of success will likely be quite different from
PW's -- the ability publish a "sturdy" product, to keep the family fed
and the lights on as opposed to filling the shareholders' pockets.

I would have to agree. I have stopped all subscriptions. I find that
they just repeat the same old stuff... Rarely anything of value.
I am more interested in furniture catalogs, to get ideas, and stuff.
How to build it, well the magazines rarely get into anything heady...
So it very basic. Finishing... They never really go deep. Tools... they
miss the mark so many times it's amazing. I think the advertising skews
them...

I will admit that sometimes I see a neat tip in the tips section, but
usually it's recycled over and over.

Most mags are just advertising.. rehashing... and sometimes bad
suggestions...


On 10/21/2011 2:22 PM, m II wrote:
> Right here!
>
> But **sigh** not my concern. I look at the magazine rack and see over 18
> magazines at any given time and 'round 'ere, they run $10-$18 each. Not
> even a chance when the main article is "How I built My Workbench for
> under $500" . I have bought my share of mags in my day but when all I
> can do it ick holes in somebody's woodworking guessing articles, it is
> not worth the bucks or time.
>
> You'll get there and looks like you have started.
>
> My magazines are hand picked and not many have an article I want to pay
> for, anymore.
>
>
> -------------
> "Bill" wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> Maybe we should be cc'ing all our posts to
> "[email protected]".
>
> Someone must have the nerve, where's m II???

On 10/21/2011 9:15 AM, Swingman wrote:
> On 10/19/2011 7:02 PM, Bill wrote:
>> My recent issue arrived with a separate page explaining that "this is a
>> special issue and that it will count as two of your subscriber issues,
>> and the duration of your subscription will be adjusted accordingly."
>
> I got the same subscription. The difference is in how you use it
>
> My MIL apparently thinks, because I have more "tools" than anyone else
> she knows, that I'm a "handyman", that that is what I do, and therefore
> the subscription to TFHM she blesses me with yearly, for the last ten
> years just tickles me to death, which it indeed sometimes does.
>
> Appropriately, the mag goes straight to the shitter each month, where it
> uniquely belongs. Much better than the Sears catalog when you find out
> at the last minute that the pups have chewed up the TP, again ... just
> wrinkle it real good and you're in business.
>
> That extra twenty pages was a BIG plus in that regard.
>

WOW! You should submit those comments directly to the magazine. I bet
they would appreciate hearing from a reader that gets so much use out of
their publication...

Now I dare you to do so. ;~)

On Fri, 21 Oct 2011 21:33:21 -0500, Roy <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On Fri, 21 Oct 2011 20:45:25 -0500, Roy <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 21 Oct 2011 08:33:10 -0700, Larry Jaques
>><[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>On Fri, 21 Oct 2011 09:50:39 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>On 10/21/2011 9:15 AM, Swingman wrote:
>>>>> On 10/19/2011 7:02 PM, Bill wrote:
>>>>>> My recent issue arrived with a separate page explaining that "this is a
>>>>>> special issue and that it will count as two of your subscriber issues,
>>>>>> and the duration of your subscription will be adjusted accordingly."
>>>>>
>>>>> I got the same subscription. The difference is in how you use it
>>>>>
>>>>> My MIL apparently thinks, because I have more "tools" than anyone else
>>>>> she knows, that I'm a "handyman", that that is what I do, and therefore
>>>>> the subscription to TFHM she blesses me with yearly, for the last ten
>>>>> years just tickles me to death, which it indeed sometimes does.
>>>>>
>>>>> Appropriately, the mag goes straight to the shitter each month, where it
>>>>> uniquely belongs. Much better than the Sears catalog when you find out
>>>>> at the last minute that the pups have chewed up the TP, again ... just
>>>>> wrinkle it real good and you're in business.
>>>>>
>>>>> That extra twenty pages was a BIG plus in that regard.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>WOW! You should submit those comments directly to the magazine. I bet
>>>>they would appreciate hearing from a reader that gets so much use out of
>>>>their publication...
>>>>
>>>>Now I dare you to do so. ;~)
>>>
>>>I don't believe that he utilizes the magazine for that particular use.
>>>Glossy stock is a crappy crapper paper.
>>>
>>>My research revealed this: The Oct issue had 57ish pages of ads in a
>>>108 page mag. The controversial Nov issue had 47ish pages of ads in a
>>>128 page mag. So, content pages totaled 47.2% in the Oct issue and
>>>56.5% in the Nov issue. They want double the "price" for a measly
>>>9.3% content increase (which they touted as double)? Feh!
>>
>>Your calculations are correct, but meaningless since they just compare the
> ^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>Let's substitute the word 'misleading' for meaningless, and then nominate me for
>Pompous Ass Of The Week for that post. Thought I'd changed it, but it's pretty
>obvious I didn't.

Your nomination is approved. I'm glad that's settled.


>"There are lies, damned lies, statistics, and amateurs who think they know a
>little bit about statistics" to paraphrase a wise man.

Hayseuss Crisco! Your nomination is again approved.

Ta!

--
...in order that a man may be happy, it is
necessary that he should not only be capable
of his work, but a good judge of his work.
-- John Ruskin

On 10/21/2011 12:32 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> Swingman wrote:
>
>>
>> Appropriately, the mag goes straight to the shitter each month, where
>> it uniquely belongs. Much better than the Sears catalog when you find
>> out at the last minute that the pups have chewed up the TP, again ...
>> just wrinkle it real good and you're in business.
>>
>
> You were obviously a high class country boy. When I grew up we didn't have
> that damned Sears catalog - only you snobs had that. We looked for broad
> leaf weeds/plants. The broader the leaf - the better - up to a point. Just
> watch out for the poison ivy... and for the sharp edges on the leaves of
> those plants - some were real killers!

Moss ... good old Southern moss: soft, caressing, absorbent, rugged,
plentiful, organic, biodegradable & free.

(Writing that I can't believe that I used to help my grandfather, by
being on one end of a two man crosscut saw, cut down huge trees just so
his cows could eat the moss ... wish I had some of that hog pecan and
white oak we cut down sixty years ago).

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

On Sat, 22 Oct 2011 06:00:06 -0700, Larry Jaques
<[email protected]> wrote:


>
>>You want to compare the total number of
>>content pages, regardless of total pages in an issue.
>
>I did, and came up with percentages, which is what I was after.
>
>
>>Using your figures and
>>some cyphering I calculate the Oct issue had 51 pages of content and the Nov
>>issue had 81.
>
>Huh? 47.2% of 108 pages is not 51, and 56.5% of 128 is not 81 in
>anyone's book. What -are- you smoking, sir?
>

108 minus 57ish leaves 51 pages of content, according to your original post, for
October. 128 minus 47ish leaves 81 pages of content for November. Therefor the
total content increase is 81/51 = 1.59(ish), multiply by 100 to get percent and
it becomes 159%, a 59% increase over the content pages from October.



>
>>The content pages in Nov are actually 59% more than Oct, while the total pages
>>increased 18.5%. The over all content is actually much better, but is still not
>>the double you are being charged for.
>
>Back away from the hookah and keep your hands in sight, sir.

I think you're suffering from that metric system all y'all use.
>

On 10/19/2011 7:02 PM, Bill wrote:
> My recent issue arrived with a separate page explaining that "this is a
> special issue and that it will count as two of your subscriber issues,
> and the duration of your subscription will be adjusted accordingly."

I got the same subscription. The difference is in how you use it

My MIL apparently thinks, because I have more "tools" than anyone else
she knows, that I'm a "handyman", that that is what I do, and therefore
the subscription to TFHM she blesses me with yearly, for the last ten
years just tickles me to death, which it indeed sometimes does.

Appropriately, the mag goes straight to the shitter each month, where it
uniquely belongs. Much better than the Sears catalog when you find out
at the last minute that the pups have chewed up the TP, again ... just
wrinkle it real good and you're in business.

That extra twenty pages was a BIG plus in that regard.

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop