This is borderline question / borderline job ad copy...
I've been looking for a good part time person. Someone who can tap a 4-40
hole by hand without breaking my tap very often. I'd like them to also be
mechanically inclined for light assembly.
I've "found" two PT folks and they seem to be working out just fine.
However, I'm at a point where I think I may look for a full time person to
be the liaison or connection between the office and the shop. A working
foreman for lack of a better term...
If someone had experience with AutoCAD or Solidworks, it would be a major
plus, but is certainly not needed.
We have most of our components made for us and do assembly in a nice bright,
clean, heated / cooled shop. Very little dirt work other than the
occasional spray painting / drill press stuff that we do.
Being in the Northeast, there is not a huge pool of folks I can pull from.
So... I have to decide whether I want to continue being the office / shop
manager of sorts or to jump right into finding a person to play this part...
As I type this, a retired jeweler just walked in and will "try out" for a
position starting Tuesday...
So my decision... Where do you look for a person like this? I had a
recruiter call me early this week and I told him we didn't have a match for
him... But now I'm wondering if maybe he could have found me someone...
Thoughts?
Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022
01.908.542.0244
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com
V8013-R
I say first let the retired jeweller take a shot. I think in this type
group(not stereotyping, mind you), you'll find a person who actually
cares about his performance. Maybe check and see if there are any
vocational/technical schools in your area, and see if there could be an
apprenticeship kinda program started? Tom
Joe AutoDrill wrote:
> This is borderline question / borderline job ad copy...
>
> I've been looking for a good part time person. Someone who can tap a 4-40
> hole by hand without breaking my tap very often. I'd like them to also be
> mechanically inclined for light assembly.
>
> I've "found" two PT folks and they seem to be working out just fine.
> However, I'm at a point where I think I may look for a full time person to
> be the liaison or connection between the office and the shop. A working
> foreman for lack of a better term...
>
> If someone had experience with AutoCAD or Solidworks, it would be a major
> plus, but is certainly not needed.
>
> We have most of our components made for us and do assembly in a nice bright,
> clean, heated / cooled shop. Very little dirt work other than the
> occasional spray painting / drill press stuff that we do.
>
> Being in the Northeast, there is not a huge pool of folks I can pull from.
> So... I have to decide whether I want to continue being the office / shop
> manager of sorts or to jump right into finding a person to play this part...
>
> As I type this, a retired jeweler just walked in and will "try out" for a
> position starting Tuesday...
>
> So my decision... Where do you look for a person like this? I had a
> recruiter call me early this week and I told him we didn't have a match for
> him... But now I'm wondering if maybe he could have found me someone...
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Regards,
> Joe Agro, Jr.
> (800) 871-5022
> 01.908.542.0244
> Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
> Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com
>
> V8013-R
"Joe AutoDrill" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:l0u0h.11982$DH5.2797@trnddc04...
> > There sure should be. This is an area that is rich in displaced
> > machinists,
> > etc.
>
> Send 'em my way!
>
Not if I find 'em first. We need them here. :)
"Joe AutoDrill" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:ows0h.8767$DH5.4196@trnddc04...
> This is borderline question / borderline job ad copy...
>
> I've been looking for a good part time person. Someone who can tap a 4-40
> hole by hand without breaking my tap very often. I'd like them to also be
> mechanically inclined for light assembly.
If I'm not mistaken, I've seen a couple or a few posts from you lately which
essentially said the same thing as the above. The part that talks about
tapping a 4-40 hole. It caught my eye this time, thinking that I'd seen it
before from you. It seems to ring cynical to me.
>
> I've "found" two PT folks and they seem to be working out just fine.
> However, I'm at a point where I think I may look for a full time person to
> be the liaison or connection between the office and the shop. A working
> foreman for lack of a better term...
Why not make one of these guys the person you're after?
>
> Being in the Northeast, there is not a huge pool of folks I can pull from.
> So... I have to decide whether I want to continue being the office / shop
> manager of sorts or to jump right into finding a person to play this
part...
There sure should be. This is an area that is rich in displaced machinists,
etc.
>
> So my decision... Where do you look for a person like this? I had a
> recruiter call me early this week and I told him we didn't have a match
for
> him... But now I'm wondering if maybe he could have found me someone...
>
From what I recall Joe - and I haven't gone back to check this, it seems to
me that you've complained a lot about not being able to find a person that
can't tap a 4-40 hole. Maybe you are already convinced there is no one out
there?
How would you find someone? Well, I'd start with a list of required skills
and the pay rate before I delved off into the "...and not break too many of
my taps" stuff. The overall tone of what I seem to recall hasn't been one
that would make me want to apply. I'm sure that's not a very accurate
impression of your operation - just trying to reply with my thoughts.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
On Sat, 28 Oct 2006 07:43:21 GMT, "CW" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Some years ago, I was in a position to buy a shop that I had worked in for
>several years. The type of work we did paid far higher than the typical and
>there was plenty of it. One of the reasons that I didn't buy it was knowing
>that I would have an extremely had time finding machinists. The type of work
>we did could not be economically done with CNC machines. It's hard enough to
>find someone to run them, let alone someone who can independently produce a
>part using conventional machines. CNCs are great for their production
>capabilities but for small lots or singles, they just don't make it. The
>shop still exists, under new ownership, but it's capabilities are a fraction
>of what it used to be. I am the only one of the original crew that isn't
>retired. I was the first guy the founder ever hired. I now run a shop full
>of robots.
I did my apprenticeship at my uncle's saw/knife grinding shop, and
there were no CNC tools whatsoever. And even though that was well
over a decade ago, I still have to shake my head in disbelief when the
engineers come out to me and walk past the lonely Bridgeport in the
corner with a disk in hand for a single part for a jig. Tried
explaining that it would make more sense to do it over there, and let
my machine run production, but they always want to switch the setup
and run it off the program. Only thing we ever use that nice mill for
is chamfering holes, despite the large rack of cutting tools right
next to it and the handy digital readout.
Manual machining is getting to be a lost art, and it's a shame. I
always enjoyed it far more than setting up for five minutes and then
watching the machine work for an hour or two while I do crap a monkey
could do like tap holes or cd weld to fill the time. Kinda wish the
machine was doing *that*, while I got to do the fun stuff.
>> That still isn't a
>> huge amount of money in my neck of the woods, but it sure beats being
>> a stocker at the grocery store or an office rat.
>
>If that's the case, you'll find the money much better out this way too.
Well, it's almost certainly in the cards, after the wife finishes
school- provided we can sell the house (there are a lot of vacant
homes in my town that have been sitting with signs on them for nearly
a year.) Can't take too much of a loss on it, as my shop won't fit in
an apartment, and we'll need the down payment for a new house.
CW wrote:
> CNCs are great for their production
> capabilities but for small lots or singles, they just don't make it.
Funny what you remember.
Very early in my career, worked for what can best be described as a
screw machine house.
Anything less than 1,000 piece runs was turret lathe time.
Anything less than 5,000 pc runs was single spindle time.
Not until it was a 10,000 pc run were the multi-spindles were used.
Since this was before CNC, the tool designers were kept busy designing
the various cam templates req'd.
Don't even know if National Acme, the single & multi screw machine
tool builder, is still in business which I'm sure would have an effect
on how screw machine houses operate today.
Lew
"tom" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I say first let the retired jeweller take a shot. I think in this type
> group(not stereotyping, mind you), you'll find a person who actually
> cares about his performance. Maybe check and see if there are any
> vocational/technical schools in your area, and see if there could be an
> apprenticeship kinda program started? Tom
The jewler starts tomorrow... We shall see. I don't think he wants 40
hours... but for now, he might fit the bill perfectly.
As for votech schools... They don't bother to return our (many) phone
calls.
I'd love to teach a young person the skill. I'm a volunteer youth leader
and have been for 15+ years. It would fit well, IMHO.
Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022
01.908.542.0244
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com
V8013-R
CW wrote:
> Since when? Word I have been getting from back that way, machinists
are as
> hard to find there as they are here (Washington).
> Shops here are advertising aggressively and offering large hiring
bonuses.
> We have been trying for so long that we have started to (try) to train
> people. People willing to learn are about as hard to find. Believe
me, his
> statement about the ability to tap a hole is not being arrogant, it
is fact.
My guess is you could find a lot of good machinists, tool room people,
etc, in the "Rust Belt", (AKA: Machine Tool Capital of the US) (ie:
Cleveland, Detroit, Chicago, & Cincinnati come to mind)
When I lived there, had a couple of neighbors who were tool room people.
They didn't know what is was not to work a 70 hour week for 2-3 years
at a time.
Only problem is most are probably past 50 and not willing to move.
Lew
Lew Hodgett wrote:
> CW wrote:
> > Since when? Word I have been getting from back that way, machinists
> are as
> > hard to find there as they are here (Washington).
> > Shops here are advertising aggressively and offering large hiring
> bonuses.
> > We have been trying for so long that we have started to (try) to train
> > people. People willing to learn are about as hard to find. Believe
> me, his
> > statement about the ability to tap a hole is not being arrogant, it
> is fact.
>
>
> My guess is you could find a lot of good machinists, tool room people,
> etc, in the "Rust Belt", (AKA: Machine Tool Capital of the US) (ie:
> Cleveland, Detroit, Chicago, & Cincinnati come to mind)
>
> When I lived there, had a couple of neighbors who were tool room people.
>
> They didn't know what is was not to work a 70 hour week for 2-3 years at
> a time.
>
> Only problem is most are probably past 50 and not willing to move.
Send them here to Phoenix. I know someone who's helping grow a machine
shop (wants to grow 100%/year, and is on pace). His biggest complaint?
Can't find good employees.
Also, one of his goals is to grow in a way that the employees truly feel
they're valued and part of the team. He's been on the other end of that
stick, and doesn't want to do that to people.
jason at <nospam> rz iha dot net
remve the spaces and <nospam> and make other appropriate changes to
email me.
"Joe AutoDrill" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:l0u0h.11982$DH5.2797@trnddc04...
> Same as a wood worker saying "someone who can run a table saw without
> cutting their fingers off." There are some people who have the skills to
> touch a table saw and those who shouldn't be let within 100' of one.
>
Rugh-roh! You had to go and say that now didn't you? You do realize you
left the door wide open to the Blade Guard thread, don't you. You're never
going to find your guy now...
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
Since when? Word I have been getting from back that way, machinists are as
hard to find there as they are here (Washington).
Shops here are advertising aggressively and offering large hiring bonuses.
We have been trying for so long that we have started to (try) to train
people. People willing to learn are about as hard to find. Believe me, his
statement about the ability to tap a hole is not being arrogant, it is fact.
"Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> There sure should be. This is an area that is rich in displaced
machinists,
> etc.
> If I'm not mistaken, I've seen a couple or a few posts from you lately
> which
> essentially said the same thing as the above. The part that talks about
> tapping a 4-40 hole. It caught my eye this time, thinking that I'd seen
> it
> before from you. It seems to ring cynical to me.
Nah. Just a perfect example of how precise or impresice the person's skill
level should be. Someone who swung hammers all their life breaking up
concrete slabs probably doesn't know how to tap a 1/4-20 hole let alone a
4-40...
> Why not make one of these guys the person you're after?
All are partially retired. None are interested. Plus, I need someone who
is going to last 10-20 years in the position in the best case scenario. I'm
looking at it as an apprenticeship for someone in their 30's or 40's...
However strange that sounds.
> There sure should be. This is an area that is rich in displaced
> machinists,
> etc.
Send 'em my way!
> From what I recall Joe - and I haven't gone back to check this, it seems
> to
> me that you've complained a lot about not being able to find a person that
> can't tap a 4-40 hole. Maybe you are already convinced there is no one
> out
> there?
Wrong perception. No confrontation intended...
> How would you find someone? Well, I'd start with a list of required
> skills
> and the pay rate before I delved off into the "...and not break too many
> of
> my taps" stuff. The overall tone of what I seem to recall hasn't been one
> that would make me want to apply. I'm sure that's not a very accurate
> impression of your operation - just trying to reply with my thoughts.
Nah. We're a light hearted operation, clean, bright, no stress, etc. It's
a simple example of the skill level I need... Not a criticism of anyone or
anything.
Same as a wood worker saying "someone who can run a table saw without
cutting their fingers off." There are some people who have the skills to
touch a table saw and those who shouldn't be let within 100' of one.
Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022
01.908.542.0244
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com
V8013-R
On Sat, 28 Oct 2006 04:39:12 GMT, Lew Hodgett
<[email protected]> wrote:
>CW wrote:
> > Since when? Word I have been getting from back that way, machinists
>are as
> > hard to find there as they are here (Washington).
> > Shops here are advertising aggressively and offering large hiring
>bonuses.
> > We have been trying for so long that we have started to (try) to train
> > people. People willing to learn are about as hard to find. Believe
>me, his
> > statement about the ability to tap a hole is not being arrogant, it
>is fact.
That's going to be fun when the wife and I move in a few years,
assuming the job market is going the way it is now. Especially if I
get that promotion to engineering/programming I've been working on.
>
>My guess is you could find a lot of good machinists, tool room people,
>etc, in the "Rust Belt", (AKA: Machine Tool Capital of the US) (ie:
>Cleveland, Detroit, Chicago, & Cincinnati come to mind)
Keep guessing. It's a shortage everywhere. I've been seeing a lot of
ads reclassifying machinists as "gold collar" workers. Don't know
what the problem is, exactly, as it pays much more than the average
blue collar and service jobs in the area (often more than double),
doesn't generally require a great deal of physical strength, and has
gotten easier every year as they refine CNC tools. That still isn't a
huge amount of money in my neck of the woods, but it sure beats being
a stocker at the grocery store or an office rat. Only down side is
when huge runs come through, and it gets boring. Hell, I hardly even
get dirty at my job- and as long as I know how to do the work (and I
do) I don't even have to deal with anyone getting on my case. They're
so afraid of losing even one guy, the owner and executives are extra
nice to everyone on the floor. Makes for a good work environment-
it's not like that at every shop, but more and more are becoming that
way as the older guys retire and there is no one to replace them.
And it's not just machinists- it's welders, carpenters, mechanics,
plumbers, excavators and all other trade jobs that most people have
decided they'd rather not do. A couple of them have an excess of
people, (HVAC comes to mind- though I'm not sure why that is) but most
work where a guy could get his hands greasy or maybe even get a bad
bruise or a cut on the arm is being dismissed out of hand by a lot of
people.
>When I lived there, had a couple of neighbors who were tool room people.
>
>They didn't know what is was not to work a 70 hour week for 2-3 years
>at a time.
Same story now as it was then. Lots of OT- because there aren't
enough machinists to go around.
On Fri, 27 Oct 2006 18:48:52 GMT, "Joe AutoDrill" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>This is borderline question / borderline job ad copy...
>
>I've been looking for a good part time person. Someone who can tap a 4-40
>hole by hand without breaking my tap very often. I'd like them to also be
>mechanically inclined for light assembly.
Here's a big question- do you have a tapping machine (like a flex-arm,
or similiar,) or are you giving the poor sods a power drill and a tap?
If the latter- or if you're using a simple T-handled tap, you might
want to upgrade the system. It'll make the pool of qualified people
quite a lot larger in a hurry, as well as increasing your production
capability by several orders of magnitude.
If your business can't afford a commerical tapping machine, you can
e-mail me off list (prometheus[at]charter.net) and I'll send you a
schematic that you can use to build one from square tubes and/or angle
iron. You may need to hire a machine shop to make a pivot, but other
than that it's very simple.
Or, you may need to look at another solution. Depending on all sorts
of things- like volume, rates and time requirements, you could ship
all or part of your assembly to another area. If you're really
finding it impossible to find people to do this work, I'd be willing
to take it if it is realistic to ship it to Wisconsin via a carrier
like UPS, and you are offering a sensible piecemeal rate. Never hurts
to make a little money on the side, and you wouldn't need to worry
about providing equipment or space- like those taps you've mentioned
several times.
But you need to have a few more details about what you're making for
any real help.
"Prometheus" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> That's going to be fun when the wife and I move in a few years,
> assuming the job market is going the way it is now. Especially if I
> get that promotion to engineering/programming I've been working on.
As I've said before, Prometheus, come out here. Plenty of work and a nice
place to live.
>
>> Keep guessing. It's a shortage everywhere. I've been seeing a lot of
> ads reclassifying machinists as "gold collar" workers. Don't know
> what the problem is, exactly, as it pays much more than the average
> blue collar and service jobs in the area (often more than double),
> doesn't generally require a great deal of physical strength, and has
> gotten easier every year as they refine CNC tools.
Some years ago, I was in a position to buy a shop that I had worked in for
several years. The type of work we did paid far higher than the typical and
there was plenty of it. One of the reasons that I didn't buy it was knowing
that I would have an extremely had time finding machinists. The type of work
we did could not be economically done with CNC machines. It's hard enough to
find someone to run them, let alone someone who can independently produce a
part using conventional machines. CNCs are great for their production
capabilities but for small lots or singles, they just don't make it. The
shop still exists, under new ownership, but it's capabilities are a fraction
of what it used to be. I am the only one of the original crew that isn't
retired. I was the first guy the founder ever hired. I now run a shop full
of robots.
> That still isn't a
> huge amount of money in my neck of the woods, but it sure beats being
> a stocker at the grocery store or an office rat.
If that's the case, you'll find the money much better out this way too.
>Only down side is
> when huge runs come through, and it gets boring. Hell, I hardly even
> get dirty at my job- and as long as I know how to do the work (and I
> do) I don't even have to deal with anyone getting on my case. They're
> so afraid of losing even one guy, the owner and executives are extra
> nice to everyone on the floor. Makes for a good work environment-
> it's not like that at every shop, but more and more are becoming that
> way as the older guys retire and there is no one to replace them.
True.
>
> And it's not just machinists- it's welders, carpenters, mechanics,
> plumbers, excavators and all other trade jobs that most people have
> decided they'd rather not do. A couple of them have an excess of
> people, (HVAC comes to mind- though I'm not sure why that is) but most
> work where a guy could get his hands greasy or maybe even get a bad
> bruise or a cut on the arm is being dismissed out of hand by a lot of
> people.
True.
>
>
> Lots of OT- because there aren't
> enough machinists to go around.
True.