Safari

Robatoy wrote:

> On Dec 29, 2:15 pm, FrozenNorth <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>> J. Clarke wrote:
>> > FrozenNorth wrote:
>> >> J. Clarke wrote:
>>
>> >>> -MIKE- wrote:
>> >>>> You mac guys might want to check out Camino.
>> >>>>http://caminobrowser.org/
>>
>> >>> Geez, Internet Explorer just works.  I'm _so_ glad I don't have a
>> >>> Mac.
>>
>> >> IE is a piece of shit, your post explains why Billy G is so rich.
>>
>> > So why are you people looking for new browsers?
>>
>> I'm not, I found it, and a different OS too.
>>
>> --
>> Froz...
>
> The box said " Intel 386 or better"... so I bought a Mac. WAY back.
> So where did Pagemaker, Illustrator, PhotoShop, MS Word and Excel etc.
> all come from?
> Which OS has Gates been trying to emulate all these years? Why, when
> Gates decided to build his house in Richmond, the architect designed
> the whole thing on a Mac? Huh? Huh?
> The diff is that Windoze is trying to tell me what to do, whilst *I*
> tell Mac OS10 what to do.
> Unfortunately for me, because of my CNC, I have to put up with
> Windoze. At least XP Pro feels a bit more solid than that candy-assed
> Vista on my laptop. Could they make an OS any more gay?

I'm using linux as my main OS, OSX is very good and I am fluent in it as
well, Windows where necessary. The OS has to fit the applications and
whatever you may need from the computer, the more people that understand
that the better.

--
Froz...

2 feet longer than a d00tchie.

J. Clarke wrote:

> FrozenNorth wrote:
>> J. Clarke wrote:
>>>
>>> And target or no, I've never had a security problem.
>>>
>>> The major security problem with Windows is all the crap that people
>>> add because Norton and other such hucksters have convinced them
>>> that
>>> they need it in order to be safe.
>>>
>>> I used to dink around with nonstandard operating systems. Finally
>>> realized that I had to make a decision--do I want to get work done
>>> or
>>> do I want to make a political statement.
>>>
>> "nonstandard operating systems", and you picked M$, BWAHAHAHAHA
>>
>> M$ is not standard, by any stretch of the imagination.
>
> OK, so what is "standard" and back that up with numbers for the
> installed base.

"Standard" is not measured by popularity, but by adherence to
internationally recognized protocols.
>
>> Back on topic, Craftsman is the standard in woodworking tools, just
>> because they made/sold good stuff many years ago?
>
> Oh, I see, you take "standard" as being some measure of quality, not
> of commonality.
>
Correct, you are starting to see the "light".
;-)
--
Froz...

2 feet longer than a d00tchie.

Upscale wrote:

>
> "FrozenNorth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> IE is a piece of shit, your post explains why Billy G is so rich.
>
> Yeah, not a chance you're jealous about his net worth. And too bad it
> makes you look like a whiner. Maybe you should go commiserate with Tim.

I just upgraded to something better, once I saw the difference, the sheeple
that follow the M$ doctrine are the same ones that whine when they pay me
to fix their computers.

What is a Tim? Does he make donuts?
;-)
--
Froz...

J. Clarke wrote:

> -MIKE- wrote:
>> You mac guys might want to check out Camino.
>> http://caminobrowser.org/
>
> Geez, Internet Explorer just works. I'm _so_ glad I don't have a Mac.
>
IE is a piece of shit, your post explains why Billy G is so rich.

--
Froz...

Dale Miller wrote:

> Charlie Self wrote:
>> Wow!
>>
>> If I can figure out how to set up a decent home page on Safari, I'm
>> switching today.
>>
>> It makes Firefox look like a turd in a soup bowl, and I've never liked
>> Opera.
>>
>> This is the first decent wreck view I've had in several years.
>>
>> I knew there had to be some advantage to sitting around recuperating
>> after surgery.
>
>
> Safari is built on Firefox code.
> So essentially your still using Firefox.
>
Wrong.
Safari is built on WebKit, which is the basis of Konqueror, part of the KDE
project, for *nix based systems.

Firefox uses Gecko, the basis for all Mozilla based browsers, Safari is not
a member of that group.

--
Froz...

On Dec 28, 7:05=A0am, Han <[email protected]> wrote:
> Charlie Self <[email protected]> wrote in news:8bc6fe7d-e310-47c6-
> [email protected]:
>
> > Wow!
>
> > If I can figure out how to set up a decent home page on Safari, I'm
> > switching today.
>
> > It makes Firefox look like a turd in a soup bowl, and I've never liked
> > Opera.
>
> > This is the first decent wreck view I've had in several years.
>
> > I knew there had to be some advantage to sitting around recuperating
> > after surgery.
>
> Glad you are recuperating, Charlie! =A0I hope all will go well, speedily,
> and, especially, as painlessly as possible.
>
> Can you please refresh my memory and tell us the nature of the surgery
> (so we canbetter empathize (sp)?
>
> Then, what OS are you using for safari? =A0Have you tried Chrome? =A0I
> haven't switched to chrome because roboform doesn't run under it, but
> otehrwise would have done so in a snap.
>
> Heal!!
>
> --

Cryosurgery for prostate cancer. One of the joys of the aging male.
This one is fun, fun, fun...well, not exactly.

I'm using XP...Windows.

I just made Safari my default. In most ways, it's far simpler to use
than Firefox or Opera, IMO. I'm having trouble getting a weather
reading included in my opening page, but what the hell. That's easy
enough to search up later. It opens Google Groups, at least so far,
beautifully, and eliminates a problem that I've been having with
Firefox in DPReview.com (digital photography site). That often came up
with "Bad Request" in the upper left of a white screen when I was
moving from one forum answer to the next, or back. It got annoying,
though a Control R corrected the mess each time. So I started looking
at Opera, which is somewhat weird in some ways. Then I recalled that
someone on DPReview had mentioned that Safari now worked for Windows.
It surely does, at least so far.

I'm not deleting any programs yet, but it seemed to me that every time
Firefox updated itself, it got clumsier and harder to handle, more
prone to minor glitches, so a change was in order.

So far, Safari seems to me to be more unified, more of a whole, maybe
just better planned from the start.

Charlie Self <[email protected]> wrote:

> Heh. Well, Safari isn't exactly a Wonderland, either. I've spent
> upwards of six hours trying to update my web site, only to have it
> fail on one page or another on Safari, while the changes come right
> through on Firefox.

don't forget to delete the cache if you need to see changes.
--
>replace spamblock with my family name to e-mail me
>Pics at http://www.meekings.net/diving/index.shtml
>and http://www.meekings.net/photo-groups/nui/index.shtml

On Dec 30, 8:24=A0pm, "Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
> Certainly, there's some things better about a Mac. I could list just as m=
any
> different things that are better about Windows.

Name one.

J. Clarke wrote:
>
> And target or no, I've never had a security problem.
>
> The major security problem with Windows is all the crap that people
> add because Norton and other such hucksters have convinced them that
> they need it in order to be safe.
>
> I used to dink around with nonstandard operating systems. Finally
> realized that I had to make a decision--do I want to get work done or
> do I want to make a political statement.
>
"nonstandard operating systems", and you picked M$, BWAHAHAHAHA

M$ is not standard, by any stretch of the imagination.

Back on topic, Craftsman is the standard in woodworking tools, just because
they made/sold good stuff many years ago?
--
Froz...

2 feet longer than a d00tchie.

Heh. Well, Safari isn't exactly a Wonderland, either. I've spent
upwards of six hours trying to update my web site, only to have it
fail on one page or another on Safari, while the changes come right
through on Firefox.

An old definition of insanity was attempting to get different results
by doing the same thing over and over again. Sounds more like working
with a damned computer to me. You've got to be laid up to the point
where the only other constructive thing you can do is read to mess
with this shit.


[email protected] wrote:
> On Dec 28, 11:24=EF=BF=BDam, Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > I agree that Firefox is 'out-featuring' themselves into being too
> > cumbersome. Every upgrade makes it slower.
> > Safari is simple and quick. That works for me. The Firefoxes are still
> > around for that odd page that Safari won't play with.
>
> I am beginning to think so as well. I upgraded to the lastest
> version, and it performs well, but it is getting cluttered and a
> little clumsy. I still can't figure out how to effectively remove
> bookmarks and histories as they cross reference each other in FF3.
> Several trips to the FF3 forums have yielded good information, but all
> I want to do is to "uncheck" or unhighlight some old favorite place
> and have it gone.
>
> You can remove the book mark, but it may still be in your favorite
> places, so it isn't really gone at all. The reverse is true as well.
>
> And I don't need to see my most recent history displayed. No way to
> stop that, either short of going into another screen an just deleting
> all of it.
>
> At any rate, still 2.000 light years ahead of MS E7. May have to look
> into Safari. The nerd squads sure like it.
>
> Robert

"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message > Plonk:
> An inexpensive beverage purchased and consumed at Pomeroy's.
> :-)

> That'd be plunk, wot?

I'm guessing his online accent makes it sound like "plonk". :)

"-MIKE-" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> I would say popularity is hardy ever the best indicator of quality.
> I'll quit calling PC users (I never have) lemmings, if PC users will
> quit calling me arrogant just because I use a superior product because I
> want the best.

You agree to quit calling PC users lemmings (an insult) as long as they stop
calling you arrogant (an insult) and you then finish off with your claim of
using a superior product (a back handed insult against all PC users).

Your feeble attempt at ending the argument with some form of diplomacy is
just that, feeble AND fake. "Up your's" is an appropriate response for you.
Take your Mac inferiority complex and shove it up your ass.

J. Clarke wrote:

> FrozenNorth wrote:
>>
>> "Standard" is not measured by popularity, but by adherence to
>> internationally recognized protocols.
>
> If 90 percent of the installed base is adhering to a single vendor's
> protocols, and the remaining 20 percent is adhering to
> "internationally recognized protocols" then the "internationally
> recognized protocols" become nonstandard.
>
Do you always give 110%?
;-)

>>>> Back on topic, Craftsman is the standard in woodworking tools,
>>>> just
>>>> because they made/sold good stuff many years ago?
>>>
>>> Oh, I see, you take "standard" as being some measure of quality,
>>> not
>>> of commonality.
>>>
>> Correct, you are starting to see the "light".
>> ;-)
>
> You are putting politics ahead of utility, which makes you a fool.
>
Politics has nothing to do with it, utility and quality have everything to
do with it.

--
Froz...

2 feet longer than a d00tchie.

Robatoy wrote:

> On Dec 30, 9:18 pm, "Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> "Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> > Windows.
>>
>> Great software and hardware availability.
> [trashed]
>>
>> Oh sorry, my mistake. You only wanted one. Get rid of second two
>> advantages will you?
>
> Great software? Like what?

Solitaire.
;-)
--
Froz...

On Dec 29, 8:11=A0am, "NuWave Dave" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...
> On Dec 28, 8:19 pm, Charlie Self <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Heh. Well, Safari isn't exactly a Wonderland, either.
>
> Well, fuck. Did I say it fucking was? Man, what-the-fuck is wrong with
> you?
> WHY-the-fuck do you you have to fuck with every-fucking-thing somebody-
> fucking-says?
> .
> .
> .
> Whoopsies... did I just say that?
>
> Charlie, try to engage in some kind of social behaviour. K?
>
> *smirk*
>
> =A0 =A0 There's two kinds of words; inside words and outside words. =A0In=
side
> words stay in and outside words come out. =A0Sounds like you let some
> inside words get out.
>
> =A0 =A0 [stealing from Frank Caliendo doing one of his George W. Bush
> routines]
>
> Dave in Houston

Love Caliendo's Madden.

"FrozenNorth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> IE is a piece of shit, your post explains why Billy G is so rich.

Yeah, not a chance you're jealous about his net worth. And too bad it makes
you look like a whiner. Maybe you should go commiserate with Tim.

J. Clarke wrote:

> FrozenNorth wrote:
>> J. Clarke wrote:
>>
>>> -MIKE- wrote:
>>>> You mac guys might want to check out Camino.
>>>> http://caminobrowser.org/
>>>
>>> Geez, Internet Explorer just works. I'm _so_ glad I don't have a
>>> Mac.
>>>
>> IE is a piece of shit, your post explains why Billy G is so rich.
>
> So why are you people looking for new browsers?
>
I'm not, I found it, and a different OS too.

--
Froz...

On Dec 28, 8:19=A0pm, Charlie Self <[email protected]> wrote:
> Heh. Well, Safari isn't exactly a Wonderland, either.

Well, fuck. Did I say it fucking was? Man, what-the-fuck is wrong with
you?
WHY-the-fuck do you you have to fuck with every-fucking-thing somebody-
fucking-says?
.
.
.
Whoopsies... did I just say that?

Charlie, try to engage in some kind of social behaviour. K?


*smirk*

On Dec 30, 8:47=A0pm, "Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:
> > Certainly, there's some things better about a Mac. I could list just as
> many
> > different things that are better about Windows.
>
> Name one.
>
> Which one do you want, Mac or Windows?

Windows.

On Dec 30, 9:18=A0pm, "Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > Windows.
>
> Great software and hardware availability.
[trashed]
>
> Oh sorry, my mistake. You only wanted one. Get rid of second two advantag=
es
> will you?

Great software? Like what?

"-MIKE-" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:gje9qh$nl9
> But either way, is it arrogant to say you use Powermatic or Oneway
> instead of Grizzly or Central Machinery, because you want to the best?

Absolutely not, but it would be if I said I used those tools while in the
midst of an argument about my tools being better than the ones most
everybody else had. Which is exactly what you did.

Don't play dumb with me Mike. There was criticism in the way you said that a
Mac was a better product. Saying it one way some might consider as fact..
Saying it the way you did was tantamount to saying "mine is better than
yours" and that's an act of malice.

You want to brag about Macs, feel free to do it all you want. Do it while
putting down PC users at the same time, then expect you're going to get
feedback.

Certainly, there's some things better about a Mac. I could list just as many
different things that are better about Windows. There's advantages to both
and that's something you can't argue against.

On Dec 28, 3:41=A0pm, "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> On Dec 28, 11:24=A0am, Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > I agree that Firefox is 'out-featuring' themselves into being too
> > cumbersome. Every upgrade makes it slower.
> > Safari is simple and quick. That works for me. The Firefoxes are still
> > around for that odd page that Safari won't play with.
>
> I am beginning to think so as well. =A0I upgraded to the lastest
> version, and it performs well, but it is getting cluttered and a
> little clumsy. =A0I still can't figure out how to effectively remove
> bookmarks and histories as they cross reference each other in FF3.
> Several trips to the FF3 forums have yielded good information, but all
> I want to do is to "uncheck" or unhighlight some old favorite place
> and have it gone.
>
> You can remove the book mark, but it may still be in your favorite
> places, so it isn't really gone at all. =A0The reverse is true as well.
>
> And I don't need to see my most recent history displayed. =A0No way to
> stop that, either short of going into another screen an just deleting
> all of it.
>
> At any rate, still 2.000 light years ahead of MS E7. =A0May have to look
> into Safari. =A0The nerd squads sure like it.
>
> Robert

I just installed Safari on my PC. Nice to be home.

On Dec 30, 9:07=A0am, "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Maxwell Lol wrote:
> > "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> writes:
>
> >> Maxwell Lol wrote:
> >>> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> writes:
>
> >>>>> There are literally dozens of browsers available, many of which
> >>>>> are
> >>>>> open source. =A0People can choose a browser that best fits their
> >>>>> needs
> >>>>> and personality. =A0We're not stuck with what Bill thinks is best
> >>>>> for
> >>>>> us.
>
> >>>> So why do you need "dozens of browsers"? =A0Don't _any_ of them
> >>>> work?
>
> >>> Huh?
>
> >>> Who said any one needs dozens of browsers?
>
> >> Well, apparently Mac users do.
>
> > So you are making up facts, and then arguing against these "facts"?
>
> Why mention that there are dozens if you don't need dozens?
>
> --
> --
> --John
> to email, dial "usenet" and validate
> (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Why do YOU mention:
">The OS it runs on is not proprietary to a single hardware
> vendor and has more than 80 percent of the market, so for every
> application that runs on the niche market proprietary crap there are 8
> that run on Windows." Sooo

By Clarke's logic 'dozens of Mac browsers x 8 =3D a couple of hundred
browsers that run on Windoze?

I think you are lying, John.

"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> writes:

> Maxwell Lol wrote:
>> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> writes:
>>
>>>> There are literally dozens of browsers available, many of which
>>>> are
>>>> open source. People can choose a browser that best fits their
>>>> needs
>>>> and personality. We're not stuck with what Bill thinks is best
>>>> for
>>>> us.
>>
>>> So why do you need "dozens of browsers"? Don't _any_ of them work?
>>
>> Huh?
>>
>> Who said any one needs dozens of browsers?
>
> Well, apparently Mac users do.

So you are making up facts, and then arguing against these "facts"?

"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> writes:

> I see. Well, if it's choices you want then you should go with a
> standard OS, not some piece of niche-market proprietary crap.

Microsoft IE is proprietary.

"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> writes:

> Maxwell Lol wrote:
>> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> writes:
>>
>>> Maxwell Lol wrote:
>>>> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> writes:
>>>>
>>>>>> There are literally dozens of browsers available, many of which
>>>>>> are
>>>>>> open source. People can choose a browser that best fits their
>>>>>> needs
>>>>>> and personality. We're not stuck with what Bill thinks is best
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> us.
>>>>
>>>>> So why do you need "dozens of browsers"? Don't _any_ of them
>>>>> work?
>>>>
>>>> Huh?
>>>>
>>>> Who said any one needs dozens of browsers?
>>>
>>> Well, apparently Mac users do.
>>
>> So you are making up facts, and then arguing against these "facts"?
>
> Why mention that there are dozens if you don't need dozens?

To quote your own words.

"so for every application that runs on the niche market proprietary
crap there are 8 that run on Windows."

So apparently Windows needs 8 times the number of applications that
MacOS needs.

"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> writes:

>> There are literally dozens of browsers available, many of which are
>> open source. People can choose a browser that best fits their needs
>> and personality. We're not stuck with what Bill thinks is best for
>> us.

> So why do you need "dozens of browsers"? Don't _any_ of them work?

Huh?

Who said any one needs dozens of browsers?

"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> writes:

> Maxwell Lol wrote:
>> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> writes:
>>
>>> I see. Well, if it's choices you want then you should go with a
>>> standard OS, not some piece of niche-market proprietary crap.
>>
>> Microsoft IE is proprietary.
>
> So what?

Oh. So I should not run Microsoft IE, and instead use some standard OS
like Linux?

Okay - Your point is MUCH clearer now.

-MIKE- <[email protected]> writes:

> As OS goes, MS has been transparently and ineptly trying to copy
> Mac OS for 25 years. And as you put it, "that's a simple fact."

Not quite true. MS exceeded MacOS in several ways.

MS did much better when they supported running multiple applications
simultaneously. The applications didn't have to use cooperative
multitasking.

It wasn't until MacOS 10 that Apple addressed this problem.

On Dec 31, 11:51=A0am, jo4hn <[email protected]> wrote:
> -MIKE- wrote:
> > J. Clarke wrote:
> >> -MIKE- wrote:
> >>>>>> Why mention that there are dozens if you don't need dozens?
>
> >>>>> Why have 31 flavors at Baskin Robbins, when you only need one?
> >>>> So what flavor from Baskin Robbins will let me access my checking
> >>>> account?
>
> >>> Yep, I do believe it's a problem with reading comprehension.
> >>> Here, this might help:
> >>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analogy
> >>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metaphor
> >>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simile
>
> >>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loon
>
> >>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/<plonk>
>
> > Plonk:
> > used to ignore spammers and trolls, or to feign disinterest because one
> > is losing the debate. =A0 :-)
>
> Plonk:
> An inexpensive beverage purchased and consumed at Pomeroy's.
> :-)

That'd be plunk, wot?

"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:
> Certainly, there's some things better about a Mac. I could list just as
many
> different things that are better about Windows.

Name one.

Which one do you want, Mac or Windows?

Charlie Self wrote:
> Wow!
>
> If I can figure out how to set up a decent home page on Safari, I'm
> switching today.
>
> It makes Firefox look like a turd in a soup bowl, and I've never liked
> Opera.
>
> This is the first decent wreck view I've had in several years.
>
> I knew there had to be some advantage to sitting around recuperating
> after surgery.


Safari is built on Firefox code.
So essentially your still using Firefox.

--
All the Best
Dale Miller
Tennessee
ASP since February 2005

Registered Linux User: #317401
Linux since June 2003

[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]

(cut the spam to reply)


VOTE TO REBUILD!
www.twintowersalliance.com
--

"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> Great software? Like what?

That was supposed to be greater not great. I wasn't commenting on the
quality of the software, just that there was more of it.

Go disturb someone else.

On Dec 28, 3:41=A0pm, "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
wrote:
=A0

> The nerd squads sure like it.
>

Hey!

RE: Subject

Now children, be nice.

Lew

"-MIKE-" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> But either way, is it arrogant to say you use Powermatic or Oneway
> instead of Grizzly or Central Machinery, because you want to the best?

Is that really the same thing? That's more akin to Dell vs HP vs Toshiba vs
ad nauseum. It's closer to buying the PC versus parting it yourself. (Try
*that* with a Mac.) Or Lie-Nielsen versus 220v and the Cyclones. Or Veritas
versus nekkid honing. For sure, it can get snobbish at times. And what's the
difference? The sticks still come out 4-square, just a little slower. Email,
usenet, or web browsing are hardly challenging, no matter what the platform.
Heck, do I *miss* using emacs to read my email? Nope.

How many flavors at Baskin Robbins? Just one. You can have your vanilla
plain, or you can have it with chocolate. Or with pralines and nuts. .... I
prefer a good sorbet myself. Is that snobbish? Nah. Not unless I try to
prick under your skin with it.

Robatoy wrote:
> On Dec 30, 8:24 pm, "Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Certainly, there's some things better about a Mac. I could list just as many
>> different things that are better about Windows.
>
> Name one.


It's free with cheap computers. <G>

Just to inject a grim note into this otherwise entertaining religious
discussion (I'm running out of popcorn):

<http://gizmodo.com/5120687/steve-jobs-health-declining-rapidly-reason-for-macworld-cancellation>

I really hope this rumor is not true. Jobs was the spark plug for
innovation at Apple.


--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough

"FrozenNorth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> J. Clarke wrote:
>
>> FrozenNorth wrote:
>>>
>>> "Standard" is not measured by popularity, but by adherence to
>>> internationally recognized protocols.
>>
>> If 90 percent of the installed base is adhering to a single vendor's
>> protocols, and the remaining 20 percent is adhering to
>> "internationally recognized protocols" then the "internationally
>> recognized protocols" become nonstandard.
>>
> Do you always give 110%?
> ;-)

10% overlap. Not everyone is so pure in their beliefs. MS enjoys much deeper
market penetration such that it becomes remarkable, for example, to note
when someone is *not* using Windows on their desktop. That's a simple fact.

>>>>> Back on topic, Craftsman is the standard in woodworking tools,
>>>>> just
>>>>> because they made/sold good stuff many years ago?
>>>>
>>>> Oh, I see, you take "standard" as being some measure of quality,
>>>> not
>>>> of commonality.
>>>>
>>> Correct, you are starting to see the "light".
>>> ;-)
>>
>> You are putting politics ahead of utility, which makes you a fool.
>>
> Politics has nothing to do with it, utility and quality have everything to
> do with it.

"Standard", as in ubiquitous, as opposed to "proprietary". Proprietary
hardware didn't do so well. Witness Sun OpenSPARC, their open source
hardware core, apparently a last gasp seeking relevance for their
processors. Mac dumped proprietary hardware and interfaces to become what it
is today, just another PC clone with minor benefits and differences.

It is and has long been politically incorrect to slam the underdog, just as
we have the Special Olympics. At some point, though, products have to reach
their own maturity and be counted on their merits. I think it's fair to say
that both the Mac and Linux are now mature products. There is no more "wait
and see". They are what they are, and if you're into counting, they're the
"also rans", the best of the rest. I didn't decide this, nor did Bill Gates.
The market has voted and Wintel won by a landslide. For whatever those
merits might be.

"-MIKE-" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> MikeWhy wrote:
>> "-MIKE-" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> As OS goes, MS has been transparently and ineptly trying to copy
>>> Mac OS for 25 years. And as you put it, "that's a simple fact."
>>
>> ?! Do you mean with a mouse centric GUI? API? Drivers and peripherals
>> interface? File systems? Which part of the OS?
>>
>> 1983, 25 years ago, was the hey day of MSDOS, the birth of the IBM PC,
>> and the beginning of the end for CP/M. The Lisa came out about then, and
>> crashed and burned. Windows and the first Mac appeared shortly after.
>> Desqview was still in the running (briefly), and if you ask me, it was
>> the better product and closer to Windows than the Mac's one button mouse.
>> If you're talking about the mouse and the GUI, you'll have to credit not
>> Apple and Mac, but Xerox PARC.
>>
>> I have a long history of buying Apple products, all of them harbingers of
>> things to come, but years before the world was ready for them, and years
>> before the technology was available to support the vision. The Mac,
>> Newton, and even the original ipod all led the way. This is to Apple's
>> credit. What they don't have, though, is dominant marketshare. This is
>> the simple fact.
>>
>>
>
> Yes, the interface. They have always lagged behind and copy Mac... and
> still do.
>
> There you go with market share again. Who cares about that?
> Go ahead and buy something because everyone else does. Jump off the
> bridge.

Popularity isn't always the best indicator of quality, but believing you
know something the lemming masses don't grasp is a step or two worse. Next
thing you know, you'll be telling us you ride a Harley as well.

I notice we've drifted away from lighthearted and fun. How about we both
quit before it gets really ugly. Okay, Mike?

Charlie Self wrote:
> Heh. Well, Safari isn't exactly a Wonderland, either. I've spent
> upwards of six hours trying to update my web site, only to have it
> fail on one page or another on Safari, while the changes come right
> through on Firefox.
>
> An old definition of insanity was attempting to get different results
> by doing the same thing over and over again. Sounds more like working
> with a damned computer to me. You've got to be laid up to the point
> where the only other constructive thing you can do is read to mess
> with this shit.
>
>
> [email protected] wrote:
>> On Dec 28, 11:24�am, Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> I agree that Firefox is 'out-featuring' themselves into being too
>>> cumbersome. Every upgrade makes it slower.
>>> Safari is simple and quick. That works for me. The Firefoxes are still
>>> around for that odd page that Safari won't play with.
>> I am beginning to think so as well. I upgraded to the lastest
>> version, and it performs well, but it is getting cluttered and a
>> little clumsy. I still can't figure out how to effectively remove
>> bookmarks and histories as they cross reference each other in FF3.
>> Several trips to the FF3 forums have yielded good information, but all
>> I want to do is to "uncheck" or unhighlight some old favorite place
>> and have it gone.
>>
>> You can remove the book mark, but it may still be in your favorite
>> places, so it isn't really gone at all. The reverse is true as well.
>>
>> And I don't need to see my most recent history displayed. No way to
>> stop that, either short of going into another screen an just deleting
>> all of it.
>>
>> At any rate, still 2.000 light years ahead of MS E7. May have to look
>> into Safari. The nerd squads sure like it.
>>
>> Robert

If you want to see why web sites have to put special cases in the coding
to accommodate different browsers, check this out:

http://brainerror.net/scripts/javascript/blendtrans/

"-MIKE-" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>> Popularity isn't always the best indicator of quality, but believing you
>> know something the lemming masses don't grasp is a step or two worse.
>
> I would say popularity is hardy ever the best indicator of quality.
> I'll quit calling PC users (I never have) lemmings, if PC users will quit
> calling me arrogant just because I use a superior product because I want
> the best.
>
>
>> Next thing you know, you'll be telling us you ride a Harley as well.
>>
>
> No, they are noisemakers. They are "look at me" vehicles.
> Besides, like Jesse James said, "Riding a Harley used to mean you were a
> bad ass, now it means you're a middle aged dentist."
>
>
>> I notice we've drifted away from lighthearted and fun. How about we both
>> quit before it gets really ugly. Okay, Mike?
>>
>
> I don't know. It's hard to infer what someone is feeling, in type. To
> me, this is a bunch of guys sitting around, having a couple beers,
> watching the game, joking around with each other.
>
> If I said, "you're an idiot if you think the Steelers are going to get
> past the Titans in the playoffs," in that setting, no one would accuse me
> of getting ugly. They'd joke right back. I think it's the same in here.
>
> BTW, I don't like either of those teams. :-)

;) Yup.

"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:70de15e5-da10-4d00-a542-4b50b1806d71@v15g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
On Dec 30, 9:18 pm, "Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > Windows.
>
> Great software and hardware availability.
[trashed]
>
> Oh sorry, my mistake. You only wanted one. Get rid of second two
> advantages
> will you?

Great software? Like what?

=====
Well, IE 7, for one. Nothing exclusive about that, since it runs on Macs
also. (We've now gone full circle. Are ya up for a second round?)

Charlie Self <[email protected]> wrote in news:8bc6fe7d-e310-47c6-
[email protected]:

> Wow!
>
> If I can figure out how to set up a decent home page on Safari, I'm
> switching today.
>
> It makes Firefox look like a turd in a soup bowl, and I've never liked
> Opera.
>
> This is the first decent wreck view I've had in several years.
>
> I knew there had to be some advantage to sitting around recuperating
> after surgery.
>
Glad you are recuperating, Charlie! I hope all will go well, speedily,
and, especially, as painlessly as possible.

Can you please refresh my memory and tell us the nature of the surgery
(so we canbetter empathize (sp)?

Then, what OS are you using for safari? Have you tried Chrome? I
haven't switched to chrome because roboform doesn't run under it, but
otehrwise would have done so in a snap.

Heal!!

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

Charlie Self <[email protected]> wrote in news:1d38c587-153e-47e3-
[email protected]:

>
> Cryosurgery for prostate cancer. One of the joys of the aging male.
> This one is fun, fun, fun...well, not exactly.

So far (knocking wood) I just suffer a bit from BHP (benign hypertrophy
of the prostate). Cystoscopy was no fun whatsoever, but reaming out the
prostate helped a lot.

> I'm using XP...Windows.
>
> I just made Safari my default. In most ways, it's far simpler to use
> than Firefox or Opera, IMO. I'm having trouble getting a weather
> reading included in my opening page, but what the hell. That's easy
> enough to search up later. It opens Google Groups,

I don't like google groups except to search. Have you tried Xnews to
keep up with ongoing discussions? It is just unzipping from the TEST
download at http://xnews.newsguy.com/ and making a shortcut to xnews.exe.

> at least so far,
> beautifully, and eliminates a problem that I've been having with
> Firefox in DPReview.com (digital photography site). That often came up
> with "Bad Request" in the upper left of a white screen when I was
> moving from one forum answer to the next, or back. It got annoying,
> though a Control R corrected the mess each time. So I started looking
> at Opera, which is somewhat weird in some ways. Then I recalled that
> someone on DPReview had mentioned that Safari now worked for Windows.
> It surely does, at least so far.

I'm annoyed at the continual updates that Apple pushes on you, which mean
that the whole kit-a-kaboodle has to be reinstalled. At least for iTunes
and Quiktime. A patchfile would be more acceptable.

> I'm not deleting any programs yet, but it seemed to me that every time
> Firefox updated itself, it got clumsier and harder to handle, more
> prone to minor glitches, so a change was in order.

I completely agree.

> So far, Safari seems to me to be more unified, more of a whole, maybe
> just better planned from the start.

Good to see you here!

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

B A R R Y <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> J. Clarke wrote:
>> -MIKE- wrote:
>>> You mac guys might want to check out Camino.
>>> http://caminobrowser.org/
>>
>> Geez, Internet Explorer just works. I'm _so_ glad I don't have a
>> Mac.
>>
>
> Are you aware of the latest security threat?
>
> <http://www.microsoft.com/protect/computer/updates/bulletins/200812_oob
> .mspx>
>
> I don't mind IE. I have to use it at work, and it just works fine for
> me. Make sure you've covered yourself as stated above.
>
> I've always subscribed to the "fringe user, off the radar" security
> method at home. When all the script kiddies were attacking Outlook
> and IE, my lesser known stuff was rarely, if ever, a target.
>

Reading this on Xnews running on wine for Ubuntu Linux 8.10 (Intrepid Ibex). Webbrowser is Opera.
Using Eudora for an Email client on WinXP but switching to Thunderbird for cross platform. Ubuntu is
rapidly becoming my default OS. For a nonemotional analysis of why there needs to be a Windows
alternative go to http://www.winehq.org/why which gives a balanced arguement to all this.

Jerry
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

J. Clarke wrote:
> -MIKE- wrote:
>> You mac guys might want to check out Camino.
>> http://caminobrowser.org/
>
> Geez, Internet Explorer just works. I'm _so_ glad I don't have a Mac.
>

Are you aware of the latest security threat?

<http://www.microsoft.com/protect/computer/updates/bulletins/200812_oob.mspx>

I don't mind IE. I have to use it at work, and it just works fine for
me. Make sure you've covered yourself as stated above.

I've always subscribed to the "fringe user, off the radar" security
method at home. When all the script kiddies were attacking Outlook and
IE, my lesser known stuff was rarely, if ever, a target.

"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
On Dec 28, 8:19 pm, Charlie Self <[email protected]> wrote:
> Heh. Well, Safari isn't exactly a Wonderland, either.

Well, fuck. Did I say it fucking was? Man, what-the-fuck is wrong with
you?
WHY-the-fuck do you you have to fuck with every-fucking-thing somebody-
fucking-says?
.
.
.
Whoopsies... did I just say that?

Charlie, try to engage in some kind of social behaviour. K?


*smirk*

There's two kinds of words; inside words and outside words. Inside
words stay in and outside words come out. Sounds like you let some
inside words get out.

[stealing from Frank Caliendo doing one of his George W. Bush
routines]

Dave in Houston

"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> Yeah, not a chance you're jealous about his net worth. And too bad it
makes
> you look like a whiner. Maybe you should go commiserate with Tim.

...now... what was this about stirring shit? <G>

Who me? Don't you have a kitchen to build or something?

J. Clarke wrote:
>
> I'm aware of many, many so-called "security threats". That particular
> one only affects idiots who run on a root account. So what?

Not picking on you, just passing along the info...

On Dec 29, 2:15=A0pm, FrozenNorth <[email protected]>
wrote:
> J. Clarke wrote:
> > FrozenNorth wrote:
> >> J. Clarke wrote:
>
> >>> -MIKE- wrote:
> >>>> You mac guys might want to check out Camino.
> >>>>http://caminobrowser.org/
>
> >>> Geez, Internet Explorer just works. =A0I'm _so_ glad I don't have a
> >>> Mac.
>
> >> IE is a piece of shit, your post explains why Billy G is so rich.
>
> > So why are you people looking for new browsers?
>
> I'm not, I found it, and a different OS too.
>
> --
> Froz...

The box said " Intel 386 or better"... so I bought a Mac. WAY back.
So where did Pagemaker, Illustrator, PhotoShop, MS Word and Excel etc.
all come from?
Which OS has Gates been trying to emulate all these years? Why, when
Gates decided to build his house in Richmond, the architect designed
the whole thing on a Mac? Huh? Huh?
The diff is that Windoze is trying to tell me what to do, whilst *I*
tell Mac OS10 what to do.
Unfortunately for me, because of my CNC, I have to put up with
Windoze. At least XP Pro feels a bit more solid than that candy-assed
Vista on my laptop. Could they make an OS any more gay?

"MikeWhy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> "also rans", the best of the rest. I didn't decide this, nor did Bill
Gates.
> The market has voted and Wintel won by a landslide. For whatever those
> merits might be.

The truth is that all those "also rans" have an inferiority complex. The
softwares they use might well be superior, who is to say? But, the fact is
that their products have a very low market share compared to Windows and
they just can't idly sit by and live with that knowledge. So, Gates and
Windows becomes a very easy, very large target.

If those "also rans" truly believed their products were superior in every
way, then they should be secure in that knowledge and not find it necessary
to resort to Windows bashing. That's not how it is though. Every time an
"also ran" bashes Windows, all they're really doing is confirming how much
of the market that Windows has and confirming the simple fact that they're
jealous. Nothing wrong with that I guess, it's just being human.

On Dec 31, 12:52=A0pm, Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Dec 31, 11:51=A0am, jo4hn <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > -MIKE- wrote:
> > > J. Clarke wrote:
> > >> -MIKE- wrote:
> > >>>>>> Why mention that there are dozens if you don't need dozens?
>
> > >>>>> Why have 31 flavors at Baskin Robbins, when you only need one?
> > >>>> So what flavor from Baskin Robbins will let me access my checking
> > >>>> account?
>
> > >>> Yep, I do believe it's a problem with reading comprehension.
> > >>> Here, this might help:
> > >>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analogy
> > >>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metaphor
> > >>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simile
>
> > >>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loon
>
> > >>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/<plonk>
>
> > > Plonk:
> > > used to ignore spammers and trolls, or to feign disinterest because o=
ne
> > > is losing the debate. =A0 :-)
>
> > Plonk:
> > An inexpensive beverage purchased and consumed at Pomeroy's.
> > :-)
>
> That'd be plunk, wot?

Could it be an irregular verb? Plonk, plunk, plank?

On Dec 29, 3:07=A0pm, -MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:

>
> The real problem is all the new crap people feel compelled to cram on
> their websites,meaning you have to update your browser or plug-ins
> constantly in order to enjoy the content.
>

Indeed. " You 'need' this+this plug-in"

*I* need nothing. If I can't see what they're trying to shill, too bad
for them. I have had it with all those plug-ins.

And what's with those mini windows floating in my face these days. My
pop-up blocker lets them through somehow and you can't get rid of the
little bastards until they decide to float away.
I have decided that any company that uses those, is on my shitlist.
Honda....gone forever. I mean, that is RUDE!

-MIKE- wrote:
> J. Clarke wrote:
>> -MIKE- wrote:
>>>>>> Why mention that there are dozens if you don't need dozens?
>>>>>>
>>>>> Why have 31 flavors at Baskin Robbins, when you only need one?
>>>> So what flavor from Baskin Robbins will let me access my checking
>>>> account?
>>>>
>>> Yep, I do believe it's a problem with reading comprehension.
>>> Here, this might help:
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analogy
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metaphor
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simile
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loon
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/<plonk>
>>
>
> Plonk:
> used to ignore spammers and trolls, or to feign disinterest because one
> is losing the debate. :-)
>
>
Plonk:
An inexpensive beverage purchased and consumed at Pomeroy's.
:-)

On Dec 28, 9:41=A0am, Han <[email protected]> wrote:
> Charlie Self <[email protected]> wrote in news:1d38c587-153e-47e3-
> [email protected]:
>
>
>
> > Cryosurgery for prostate cancer. One of the joys of the aging male.
> > This one is fun, fun, fun...well, not exactly.
>
> So far (knocking wood) I just suffer a bit from BHP (benign hypertrophy
> of the prostate). =A0Cystoscopy was no fun whatsoever, but reaming out th=
e
> prostate helped a lot.
>
> > I'm using XP...Windows.
>
> > I just made Safari my default. In most ways, it's far simpler to use
> > than Firefox or Opera, IMO. I'm having trouble getting a weather
> > reading included in my opening page, but what the hell. That's easy
> > enough to search up later. It opens Google Groups,
>
> I don't like google groups except to search. =A0Have you tried Xnews to
> keep up with ongoing discussions? =A0It is just unzipping from the TEST
> download athttp://xnews.newsguy.com/and making a shortcut to xnews.exe.
>
> > at least so far,
> > beautifully, and eliminates a problem that I've been having with
> > Firefox in DPReview.com (digital photography site). That often came up
> > with "Bad Request" in the upper left of a white screen when I was
> > moving from one forum answer to the next, or back. It got annoying,
> > though a Control R corrected the mess each time. So I started looking
> > at Opera, which is somewhat weird in some ways. Then I recalled that
> > someone on DPReview had mentioned that Safari now worked for Windows.
> > It surely does, at least so far.
>
> I'm annoyed at the continual updates that Apple pushes on you, which mean
> that the whole kit-a-kaboodle has to be reinstalled. =A0At least for iTun=
es
> and Quiktime. =A0A patchfile would be more acceptable.
>
> > I'm not deleting any programs yet, but it seemed to me that every time
> > Firefox updated itself, it got clumsier and harder to handle, more
> > prone to minor glitches, so a change was in order.
>
> I completely agree.
>
> > So far, Safari seems to me to be more unified, more of a whole, maybe
> > just better planned from the start.
>
> Good to see you here!
>
> --
> Best regards
> Han
> email address is invalid

I use Safari and Firefox on 5 macs, Firefox on 2 PC's I had completely
forgotten that Safari now runs on a PC as well. (Which is why the sore
losers at Microsoft stopped supporting Exploder for Macs.)

I agree that Firefox is 'out-featuring' themselves into being too
cumbersome. Every upgrade makes it slower.
Safari is simple and quick. That works for me. The Firefoxes are still
around for that odd page that Safari won't play with.

"FrozenNorth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> I just upgraded to something better, once I saw the difference, the
sheeple
> that follow the M$ doctrine are the same ones that whine when they pay me
> to fix their computers.

Why is it that when someone uses Windows because it works for them, they're
compared to some mindless sheep? I'm sure I could come up with dozens of
people that would say the same about the car you drive, the watch you wear
or the or even the house you live in whatever its make or construction. I
responded to your undeserved insult with an insult, but this is as far as it
goes. You're Canadian, so I'm letting you off easy. :)

And, I fix my own computer the few times it needs fixing. Guess I'm too
cheap to pay some techno wizard like you to do it.

> What is a Tim? Does he make donuts?

Probably.

On Dec 29, 8:56=A0pm, "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Maxwell Lol wrote:
> > "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> writes:
>
> >>> There are literally dozens of browsers available, many of which
> >>> are
> >>> open source. =A0People can choose a browser that best fits their
> >>> needs
> >>> and personality. =A0We're not stuck with what Bill thinks is best
> >>> for
> >>> us.
>
> >> So why do you need "dozens of browsers"? =A0Don't _any_ of them work?
>
> > Huh?
>
> > Who said any one needs dozens of browsers?
>
> Well, apparently Mac users do.
>
They do? What do you base that on? Please back this up with stats.

On Dec 30, 9:34=A0pm, "Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > Great software? Like what?
>
> That was supposed to be greater not great. I wasn't commenting on the
> quality of the software, just that there was more of it.
>
> Go disturb someone else.

:-)

On Dec 28, 4:56=A0pm, Dale Miller <[email protected]> wrote:
> Charlie Self wrote:
> > Wow!
>
> > If I can figure out how to set up a decent home page on Safari, I'm
> > switching today.
>
> > It makes Firefox look like a turd in a soup bowl, and I've never liked
> > Opera.
>
> > This is the first decent wreck view I've had in several years.
>
> > I knew there had to be some advantage to sitting around recuperating
> > after surgery.
>
> Safari is built on Firefox code.
> So essentially your still using Firefox.
>
That's an oversimplification. Take a look at the size.

On Dec 31, 8:37=A0am, FrozenNorth <[email protected]>
wrote:
> Robatoy wrote:
> > On Dec 30, 9:18=A0pm, "Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> "Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >> > Windows.
>
> >> Great software and hardware availability.
> > [trashed]
>
> >> Oh sorry, my mistake. You only wanted one. Get rid of second two
> >> advantages will you?
>
> > Great software? Like what?
>
> Solitaire.
> ;-)
> --
> Froz...

Ziiiiiiiiiiiiing!!!

FrozenNorth wrote:
> Dale Miller wrote:
>
>> Charlie Self wrote:
>>> Wow!
>>>
>>> If I can figure out how to set up a decent home page on Safari, I'm
>>> switching today.
>>>
>>> It makes Firefox look like a turd in a soup bowl, and I've never liked
>>> Opera.
>>>
>>> This is the first decent wreck view I've had in several years.
>>>
>>> I knew there had to be some advantage to sitting around recuperating
>>> after surgery.
>>
>> Safari is built on Firefox code.
>> So essentially your still using Firefox.
>>
> Wrong.
> Safari is built on WebKit, which is the basis of Konqueror, part of the KDE
> project, for *nix based systems.
>
> Firefox uses Gecko, the basis for all Mozilla based browsers, Safari is not
> a member of that group.
>

I stand corrected...it use to be built on gecko...I didn't know that
they changed.



--
All the Best
Dale Miller
Tennessee
ASP since February 2005

Registered Linux User: #317401
Linux since June 2003

[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]

(cut the spam to reply)


VOTE TO REBUILD!
www.twintowersalliance.com
--

On Dec 28, 11:24=A0am, Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:

> I agree that Firefox is 'out-featuring' themselves into being too
> cumbersome. Every upgrade makes it slower.
> Safari is simple and quick. That works for me. The Firefoxes are still
> around for that odd page that Safari won't play with.

I am beginning to think so as well. I upgraded to the lastest
version, and it performs well, but it is getting cluttered and a
little clumsy. I still can't figure out how to effectively remove
bookmarks and histories as they cross reference each other in FF3.
Several trips to the FF3 forums have yielded good information, but all
I want to do is to "uncheck" or unhighlight some old favorite place
and have it gone.

You can remove the book mark, but it may still be in your favorite
places, so it isn't really gone at all. The reverse is true as well.

And I don't need to see my most recent history displayed. No way to
stop that, either short of going into another screen an just deleting
all of it.

At any rate, still 2.000 light years ahead of MS E7. May have to look
into Safari. The nerd squads sure like it.

Robert

"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> Windows.

Great software and hardware availability.
Cheaper software and hardware.
More people creating both of the above to give a greater choice.

Oh sorry, my mistake. You only wanted one. Get rid of second two advantages
will you?

On Dec 29 2008, 6:37=A0pm, "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote:
> -MIKE- wrote:
> >>>>> You mac guys might want to check out Camino.
> >>>>>http://caminobrowser.org/
> >>>> Geez, Internet Explorer just works. =A0I'm _so_ glad I don't have a
> >>>> Mac.
>
> >>> IE is a piece of shit, your post explains why Billy G is so rich.
>
> >> So why are you people looking for new browsers?
>
> > It's called, "software."
>
> > You see, on a Mac you're given a choice of what you can run on the
> > machine, including windoze if you so choose. =A0:-)
>
> > There are literally dozens of browsers available, many of which are
> > open source. =A0People can choose a browser that best fits their needs
> > and personality. =A0We're not stuck with what Bill thinks is best for
> > us.
>
> > The real problem is all the new crap people feel compelled to cram
> > on
> > their websites,meaning you have to update your browser or plug-ins
> > constantly in order to enjoy the content.
>
> So why do you need "dozens of browsers"? =A0Don't _any_ of them work?
> --

Yeah, all of them do, just like all the car brands work. Some are more
pleasing to one group or another, that's all.

I ditched Safari after a couple of days because it wouldn't do all
that I needed. It does what it does quite well. It just doesn't do
quite enough.

Life's like that.

On Dec 29, 1:15=A0pm, "Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "FrozenNorth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > IE is a piece of shit, your post explains why Billy G is so rich.
>
> Yeah, not a chance you're jealous about his net worth. And too bad it mak=
es
> you look like a whiner. Maybe you should go commiserate with Tim.

...now... what was this about stirring shit? <G>

You mac guys might want to check out Camino.
http://caminobrowser.org/



--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

-MIKE- wrote:
> You mac guys might want to check out Camino.
> http://caminobrowser.org/

Geez, Internet Explorer just works. I'm _so_ glad I don't have a Mac.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

J. Clarke wrote:
> -MIKE- wrote:
>> You mac guys might want to check out Camino.
>> http://caminobrowser.org/
>
> Geez, Internet Explorer just works. I'm _so_ glad I don't have a Mac.
>

Hahahahaha..... yeah, ok.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

FrozenNorth wrote:
> J. Clarke wrote:
>
>> -MIKE- wrote:
>>> You mac guys might want to check out Camino.
>>> http://caminobrowser.org/
>>
>> Geez, Internet Explorer just works. I'm _so_ glad I don't have a
>> Mac.
>>
> IE is a piece of shit, your post explains why Billy G is so rich.

So why are you people looking for new browsers?

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

>>>> You mac guys might want to check out Camino.
>>>> http://caminobrowser.org/
>>> Geez, Internet Explorer just works. I'm _so_ glad I don't have a
>>> Mac.
>>>
>> IE is a piece of shit, your post explains why Billy G is so rich.
>
> So why are you people looking for new browsers?
>

It's called, "software."

You see, on a Mac you're given a choice of what you can run on the
machine, including windoze if you so choose. :-)

There are literally dozens of browsers available, many of which are open
source. People can choose a browser that best fits their needs and
personality. We're not stuck with what Bill thinks is best for us.

The real problem is all the new crap people feel compelled to cram on
their websites,meaning you have to update your browser or plug-ins
constantly in order to enjoy the content.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

B A R R Y wrote:
> J. Clarke wrote:
>> -MIKE- wrote:
>>> You mac guys might want to check out Camino.
>>> http://caminobrowser.org/
>>
>> Geez, Internet Explorer just works. I'm _so_ glad I don't have a
>> Mac.
>>
>
> Are you aware of the latest security threat?
>
> <http://www.microsoft.com/protect/computer/updates/bulletins/200812_oob.mspx>

I'm aware of many, many so-called "security threats". That particular
one only affects idiots who run on a root account. So what?

> I don't mind IE. I have to use it at work, and it just works fine
> for
> me. Make sure you've covered yourself as stated above.

Run a real firewall, don't run as root.

> I've always subscribed to the "fringe user, off the radar" security
> method at home. When all the script kiddies were attacking Outlook
> and IE, my lesser known stuff was rarely, if ever, a target.

And target or no, I've never had a security problem.

The major security problem with Windows is all the crap that people
add because Norton and other such hucksters have convinced them that
they need it in order to be safe.

I used to dink around with nonstandard operating systems. Finally
realized that I had to make a decision--do I want to get work done or
do I want to make a political statement.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

-MIKE- wrote:
>>>>> You mac guys might want to check out Camino.
>>>>> http://caminobrowser.org/
>>>> Geez, Internet Explorer just works. I'm _so_ glad I don't have a
>>>> Mac.
>>>>
>>> IE is a piece of shit, your post explains why Billy G is so rich.
>>
>> So why are you people looking for new browsers?
>>
>
> It's called, "software."
>
> You see, on a Mac you're given a choice of what you can run on the
> machine, including windoze if you so choose. :-)
>
> There are literally dozens of browsers available, many of which are
> open source. People can choose a browser that best fits their needs
> and personality. We're not stuck with what Bill thinks is best for
> us.
>
> The real problem is all the new crap people feel compelled to cram
> on
> their websites,meaning you have to update your browser or plug-ins
> constantly in order to enjoy the content.

So why do you need "dozens of browsers"? Don't _any_ of them work?
--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

J. Clarke wrote:
>> There are literally dozens of browsers available, many of which are
>> open source. People can choose a browser that best fits their needs
>> and personality. We're not stuck with what Bill thinks is best for
>> us.
>>
>> The real problem is all the new crap people feel compelled to cram
>> on
>> their websites,meaning you have to update your browser or plug-ins
>> constantly in order to enjoy the content.
>
> So why do you need "dozens of browsers"? Don't _any_ of them work?


I'll assume you don't need a remedial course in reading comprehension,
but instead chose to ignore the statement, "People can choose a browser
that best fits their needs and personality."


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

-MIKE- wrote:
> J. Clarke wrote:
>>> There are literally dozens of browsers available, many of which
>>> are
>>> open source. People can choose a browser that best fits their
>>> needs
>>> and personality. We're not stuck with what Bill thinks is best
>>> for
>>> us.
>>>
>>> The real problem is all the new crap people feel compelled to cram
>>> on
>>> their websites,meaning you have to update your browser or plug-ins
>>> constantly in order to enjoy the content.
>>
>> So why do you need "dozens of browsers"? Don't _any_ of them work?
>
>
> I'll assume you don't need a remedial course in reading
> comprehension,
> but instead chose to ignore the statement, "People can choose a
> browser that best fits their needs and personality."

I see. Well, if it's choices you want then you should go with a
standard OS, not some piece of niche-market proprietary crap.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

FrozenNorth wrote:
> J. Clarke wrote:
>>
>> And target or no, I've never had a security problem.
>>
>> The major security problem with Windows is all the crap that people
>> add because Norton and other such hucksters have convinced them
>> that
>> they need it in order to be safe.
>>
>> I used to dink around with nonstandard operating systems. Finally
>> realized that I had to make a decision--do I want to get work done
>> or
>> do I want to make a political statement.
>>
> "nonstandard operating systems", and you picked M$, BWAHAHAHAHA
>
> M$ is not standard, by any stretch of the imagination.

OK, so what is "standard" and back that up with numbers for the
installed base.

> Back on topic, Craftsman is the standard in woodworking tools, just
> because they made/sold good stuff many years ago?

Oh, I see, you take "standard" as being some measure of quality, not
of commonality.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Maxwell Lol wrote:
> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> writes:
>
>>> There are literally dozens of browsers available, many of which
>>> are
>>> open source. People can choose a browser that best fits their
>>> needs
>>> and personality. We're not stuck with what Bill thinks is best
>>> for
>>> us.
>
>> So why do you need "dozens of browsers"? Don't _any_ of them work?
>
> Huh?
>
> Who said any one needs dozens of browsers?

Well, apparently Mac users do.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

J. Clarke wrote:
> -MIKE- wrote:
>>
>> I'll assume you don't need a remedial course in reading
>> comprehension,
>> but instead chose to ignore the statement, "People can choose a
>> browser that best fits their needs and personality."
>
> I see. Well, if it's choices you want then you should go with a
> standard OS, not some piece of niche-market proprietary crap.
>

You keep telling yourself that, if it makes you feel better. :-p


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

-MIKE- wrote:
> J. Clarke wrote:
>> -MIKE- wrote:
>>>
>>> I'll assume you don't need a remedial course in reading
>>> comprehension,
>>> but instead chose to ignore the statement, "People can choose a
>>> browser that best fits their needs and personality."
>>
>> I see. Well, if it's choices you want then you should go with a
>> standard OS, not some piece of niche-market proprietary crap.
>>
>
> You keep telling yourself that, if it makes you feel better.

Yeah, bet you think your excrement smells of roses too.


--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

J. Clarke wrote:
> -MIKE- wrote:
>> J. Clarke wrote:
>>> -MIKE- wrote:
>>>> I'll assume you don't need a remedial course in reading
>>>> comprehension,
>>>> but instead chose to ignore the statement, "People can choose a
>>>> browser that best fits their needs and personality."
>>> I see. Well, if it's choices you want then you should go with a
>>> standard OS, not some piece of niche-market proprietary crap.
>>>
>> You keep telling yourself that, if it makes you feel better.
>
> Yeah, bet you think your excrement smells of roses too.
>

No. Shit stinks and so does windows.



--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

-MIKE- wrote:
> J. Clarke wrote:
>> -MIKE- wrote:
>>> J. Clarke wrote:
>>>> -MIKE- wrote:
>>>>> I'll assume you don't need a remedial course in reading
>>>>> comprehension,
>>>>> but instead chose to ignore the statement, "People can choose a
>>>>> browser that best fits their needs and personality."
>>>> I see. Well, if it's choices you want then you should go with a
>>>> standard OS, not some piece of niche-market proprietary crap.
>>>>
>>> You keep telling yourself that, if it makes you feel better.
>>
>> Yeah, bet you think your excrement smells of roses too.
>>
>
> No. Shit stinks and so does windows.

Smells a lot better than rotten Apples.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

ALurker wrote:
> B A R R Y <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> J. Clarke wrote:
>>> -MIKE- wrote:
>>>> You mac guys might want to check out Camino.
>>>> http://caminobrowser.org/
>>>
>>> Geez, Internet Explorer just works. I'm _so_ glad I don't have a
>>> Mac.
>>>
>>
>> Are you aware of the latest security threat?
>>
>> <http://www.microsoft.com/protect/computer/updates/bulletins/200812_oob
>> .mspx>
>>
>> I don't mind IE. I have to use it at work, and it just works fine
>> for me. Make sure you've covered yourself as stated above.
>>
>> I've always subscribed to the "fringe user, off the radar" security
>> method at home. When all the script kiddies were attacking Outlook
>> and IE, my lesser known stuff was rarely, if ever, a target.
>>
>
> Reading this on Xnews running on wine for Ubuntu Linux 8.10
> (Intrepid
> Ibex). Webbrowser is Opera.
> Using Eudora for an Email client on WinXP but switching to
> Thunderbird for cross platform. Ubuntu is
> rapidly becoming my default OS. For a nonemotional analysis of why
> there needs to be a Windows
> alternative go to http://www.winehq.org/why which gives a balanced
> arguement to all this.

Well, except that that "balanced argument" shows that the author
doesn't know Windows all that well.

"Wine makes it possible to take advantage of all the Unix strong
points (stability, flexibility, remote administration) while still
using the Windows applications you depend on."

I'm not going to comment on "stability", which is a hot button for a
lot of people, or "flexibility" which is a matter of opinion, but
Windows has had remote administration for more than a decade now.

"Wine makes it possible to access Windows applications remotely, even
if they are a few thousand miles away."

While this may be true you can do it with out of the box Windows too,
so it is not a "benefit" of WINE.

"Wine makes it economical to use thin clients: simply install Wine on
a Linux server, and voila, you can access these Windows applications
from any X terminal."

I can access Windows applications from Linux boxes without WINE so
again it's hardly a "benefit".

"Wine can also be used to make existing Windows applications available
on the Web by using VNC and its Java client."

That can also be done with Windows without using WINE.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Maxwell Lol wrote:
> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> writes:
>
>> I see. Well, if it's choices you want then you should go with a
>> standard OS, not some piece of niche-market proprietary crap.
>
> Microsoft IE is proprietary.

So what? The OS it runs on is not proprietary to a single hardware
vendor and has more than 80 percent of the market, so for every
application that runs on the niche market proprietary crap there are 8
that run on Windows. Not that it needs yet another boring browser but
people seem to enjoy writing them.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Maxwell Lol wrote:
> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> writes:
>
>> Maxwell Lol wrote:
>>> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> writes:
>>>
>>>>> There are literally dozens of browsers available, many of which
>>>>> are
>>>>> open source. People can choose a browser that best fits their
>>>>> needs
>>>>> and personality. We're not stuck with what Bill thinks is best
>>>>> for
>>>>> us.
>>>
>>>> So why do you need "dozens of browsers"? Don't _any_ of them
>>>> work?
>>>
>>> Huh?
>>>
>>> Who said any one needs dozens of browsers?
>>
>> Well, apparently Mac users do.
>
> So you are making up facts, and then arguing against these "facts"?

Why mention that there are dozens if you don't need dozens?

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

FrozenNorth wrote:
> J. Clarke wrote:
>
>> FrozenNorth wrote:
>>> J. Clarke wrote:
>>>>
>>>> And target or no, I've never had a security problem.
>>>>
>>>> The major security problem with Windows is all the crap that
>>>> people
>>>> add because Norton and other such hucksters have convinced them
>>>> that
>>>> they need it in order to be safe.
>>>>
>>>> I used to dink around with nonstandard operating systems.
>>>> Finally
>>>> realized that I had to make a decision--do I want to get work
>>>> done
>>>> or
>>>> do I want to make a political statement.
>>>>
>>> "nonstandard operating systems", and you picked M$, BWAHAHAHAHA
>>>
>>> M$ is not standard, by any stretch of the imagination.
>>
>> OK, so what is "standard" and back that up with numbers for the
>> installed base.
>
> "Standard" is not measured by popularity, but by adherence to
> internationally recognized protocols.

If 90 percent of the installed base is adhering to a single vendor's
protocols, and the remaining 20 percent is adhering to
"internationally recognized protocols" then the "internationally
recognized protocols" become nonstandard.

>>> Back on topic, Craftsman is the standard in woodworking tools,
>>> just
>>> because they made/sold good stuff many years ago?
>>
>> Oh, I see, you take "standard" as being some measure of quality,
>> not
>> of commonality.
>>
> Correct, you are starting to see the "light".
> ;-)

You are putting politics ahead of utility, which makes you a fool.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

J. Clarke wrote:
> Maxwell Lol wrote:
>> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> writes:
>>
>>> I see. Well, if it's choices you want then you should go with a
>>> standard OS, not some piece of niche-market proprietary crap.
>> Microsoft IE is proprietary.
>
> So what? The OS it runs on is not proprietary to a single hardware
> vendor and has more than 80 percent of the market, so for every
> application that runs on the niche market proprietary crap there are 8
> that run on Windows. Not that it needs yet another boring browser but
> people seem to enjoy writing them.
>

Do you honestly believe that having 80 percent of the market means it's
better?
All it means is that it's more marketable.

Kenye West sold millions of records this year.
Does that make him "better" than Tony Bennett?


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

J. Clarke wrote:
>
> Why mention that there are dozens if you don't need dozens?
>

Why have 31 flavors at Baskin Robbins, when you only need one?


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

Maxwell Lol wrote:
> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> writes:
>
>> Maxwell Lol wrote:
>>> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> writes:
>>>
>>>> I see. Well, if it's choices you want then you should go with a
>>>> standard OS, not some piece of niche-market proprietary crap.
>>>
>>> Microsoft IE is proprietary.
>>
>> So what?
>
> Oh. So I should not run Microsoft IE, and instead use some standard
> OS
> like Linux?
>
> Okay - Your point is MUCH clearer now.

Huh? I'm sorry but you people are making no sense at all.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

-MIKE- wrote:
> J. Clarke wrote:
>> Maxwell Lol wrote:
>>> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> writes:
>>>
>>>> I see. Well, if it's choices you want then you should go with a
>>>> standard OS, not some piece of niche-market proprietary crap.
>>>> Microsoft IE is proprietary.
>>
>> So what? The OS it runs on is not proprietary to a single hardware
>> vendor and has more than 80 percent of the market, so for every
>> application that runs on the niche market proprietary crap there
>> are
>> 8 that run on Windows. Not that it needs yet another boring
>> browser
>> but people seem to enjoy writing them.
>>
>
> Do you honestly believe that having 80 percent of the market means
> it's better?
> All it means is that it's more marketable.

It means that it has 80 percent more people developing code for it and
thus gives me greater choice of applications.

> Kenye West sold millions of records this year.
> Does that make him "better" than Tony Bennett?

I dunno. What applications do either of them run?

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Maxwell Lol wrote:
> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> writes:
>
>> Maxwell Lol wrote:
>>> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> writes:
>>>
>>>> Maxwell Lol wrote:
>>>>> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> writes:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> There are literally dozens of browsers available, many of
>>>>>>> which
>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>> open source. People can choose a browser that best fits their
>>>>>>> needs
>>>>>>> and personality. We're not stuck with what Bill thinks is
>>>>>>> best
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> us.
>>>>>
>>>>>> So why do you need "dozens of browsers"? Don't _any_ of them
>>>>>> work?
>>>>>
>>>>> Huh?
>>>>>
>>>>> Who said any one needs dozens of browsers?
>>>>
>>>> Well, apparently Mac users do.
>>>
>>> So you are making up facts, and then arguing against these
>>> "facts"?
>>
>> Why mention that there are dozens if you don't need dozens?
>
> To quote your own words.
>
> "so for every application that runs on the niche market proprietary
> crap there are 8 that run on Windows."
>
> So apparently Windows needs 8 times the number of applications that
> MacOS needs.

Nope, Windows has 8 times the number of bored programmers looking for
something to do. Besides, writing a browser is a student exercise.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

-MIKE- wrote:
> J. Clarke wrote:
>>
>> Why mention that there are dozens if you don't need dozens?
>>
>
> Why have 31 flavors at Baskin Robbins, when you only need one?

So what flavor from Baskin Robbins will let me access my checking
account?

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

FrozenNorth wrote:
> J. Clarke wrote:
>
>> FrozenNorth wrote:
>>>
>>> "Standard" is not measured by popularity, but by adherence to
>>> internationally recognized protocols.
>>
>> If 90 percent of the installed base is adhering to a single
>> vendor's
>> protocols, and the remaining 20 percent is adhering to
>> "internationally recognized protocols" then the "internationally
>> recognized protocols" become nonstandard.
>>
> Do you always give 110%?

Yup, the only way to get ahead.

> ;-)
>
>>>>> Back on topic, Craftsman is the standard in woodworking tools,
>>>>> just
>>>>> because they made/sold good stuff many years ago?
>>>>
>>>> Oh, I see, you take "standard" as being some measure of quality,
>>>> not
>>>> of commonality.
>>>>
>>> Correct, you are starting to see the "light".
>>> ;-)
>>
>> You are putting politics ahead of utility, which makes you a fool.
>>
> Politics has nothing to do with it, utility and quality have
> everything to do with it.

If I click on a link and the page won't open or won't function
properly, then the utility is nonexistent and with no utility
"quality" becomes irrelevant.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

MikeWhy wrote:
> Mac dumped proprietary hardware and interfaces to become
> what it is today, just another PC clone with minor benefits and
> differences.
>

I don't know if you're talking hardware or OS.

As OS goes, MS has been transparently and ineptly trying to copy
Mac OS for 25 years. And as you put it, "that's a simple fact."



--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

J. Clarke wrote:
>> Do you honestly believe that having 80 percent of the market means
>> it's better?
>> All it means is that it's more marketable.
>
> It means that it has 80 percent more people developing code for it and
> thus gives me greater choice of applications.
>

Firstly, that is flawed logic. The amount of people it takes to
manufacture a product vs. the amount of people who buy the product has
no correlation whatsoever.

To use my music analogy. It's takes the same number of people to produce
two albums, each. One sells 10 million, the other 10 thousand.


But on to your hypocrisy...
Why do you get to claim that more applications equals "greater choice,"
but when I say it, you reply,
"why do you need dozens of [applications]? Don't _any_ of them work?"


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

>>> Why mention that there are dozens if you don't need dozens?
>>>
>> Why have 31 flavors at Baskin Robbins, when you only need one?
>
> So what flavor from Baskin Robbins will let me access my checking
> account?
>

Yep, I do believe it's a problem with reading comprehension.
Here, this might help:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analogy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metaphor
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simile



--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

MikeWhy wrote:
> "-MIKE-" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> As OS goes, MS has been transparently and ineptly trying to copy
>> Mac OS for 25 years. And as you put it, "that's a simple fact."
>
> ?! Do you mean with a mouse centric GUI? API? Drivers and peripherals
> interface? File systems? Which part of the OS?
>
> 1983, 25 years ago, was the hey day of MSDOS, the birth of the IBM PC,
> and the beginning of the end for CP/M. The Lisa came out about then, and
> crashed and burned. Windows and the first Mac appeared shortly after.
> Desqview was still in the running (briefly), and if you ask me, it was
> the better product and closer to Windows than the Mac's one button
> mouse. If you're talking about the mouse and the GUI, you'll have to
> credit not Apple and Mac, but Xerox PARC.
>
> I have a long history of buying Apple products, all of them harbingers
> of things to come, but years before the world was ready for them, and
> years before the technology was available to support the vision. The
> Mac, Newton, and even the original ipod all led the way. This is to
> Apple's credit. What they don't have, though, is dominant marketshare.
> This is the simple fact.
>
>

Yes, the interface. They have always lagged behind and copy Mac... and
still do.

There you go with market share again. Who cares about that?
Go ahead and buy something because everyone else does. Jump off the
bridge.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

> Popularity isn't always the best indicator of quality, but believing you
> know something the lemming masses don't grasp is a step or two worse.

I would say popularity is hardy ever the best indicator of quality.
I'll quit calling PC users (I never have) lemmings, if PC users will
quit calling me arrogant just because I use a superior product because I
want the best.


> Next thing you know, you'll be telling us you ride a Harley as well.
>

No, they are noisemakers. They are "look at me" vehicles.
Besides, like Jesse James said, "Riding a Harley used to mean you were a
bad ass, now it means you're a middle aged dentist."


> I notice we've drifted away from lighthearted and fun. How about we both
> quit before it gets really ugly. Okay, Mike?
>

I don't know. It's hard to infer what someone is feeling, in type. To
me, this is a bunch of guys sitting around, having a couple beers,
watching the game, joking around with each other.

If I said, "you're an idiot if you think the Steelers are going to get
past the Titans in the playoffs," in that setting, no one would accuse
me of getting ugly. They'd joke right back. I think it's the same in
here.

BTW, I don't like either of those teams. :-)



--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

-MIKE- wrote:
>>>> Why mention that there are dozens if you don't need dozens?
>>>>
>>> Why have 31 flavors at Baskin Robbins, when you only need one?
>>
>> So what flavor from Baskin Robbins will let me access my checking
>> account?
>>
>
> Yep, I do believe it's a problem with reading comprehension.
> Here, this might help:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analogy
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metaphor
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simile

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loon

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/<plonk>


--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Upscale wrote:
> "-MIKE-" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> I would say popularity is hardy ever the best indicator of quality.
>> I'll quit calling PC users (I never have) lemmings, if PC users will
>> quit calling me arrogant just because I use a superior product because I
>> want the best.
>
> You agree to quit calling PC users lemmings (an insult) as long as they stop
> calling you arrogant (an insult) and you then finish off with your claim of
> using a superior product (a back handed insult against all PC users).
>
> Your feeble attempt at ending the argument with some form of diplomacy is
> just that, feeble AND fake. "Up your's" is an appropriate response for you.
> Take your Mac inferiority complex and shove it up your ass.
>

Or it went over your head and you're a bit too touchy on the subject.

But either way, is it arrogant to say you use Powermatic or Oneway
instead of Grizzly or Central Machinery, because you want to the best?


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

J. Clarke wrote:
> -MIKE- wrote:
>>>>> Why mention that there are dozens if you don't need dozens?
>>>>>
>>>> Why have 31 flavors at Baskin Robbins, when you only need one?
>>> So what flavor from Baskin Robbins will let me access my checking
>>> account?
>>>
>> Yep, I do believe it's a problem with reading comprehension.
>> Here, this might help:
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analogy
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metaphor
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simile
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loon
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/<plonk>
>

Plonk:
used to ignore spammers and trolls, or to feign disinterest because one
is losing the debate. :-)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

Upscale wrote:
> "-MIKE-" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:gje9qh$nl9
>> But either way, is it arrogant to say you use Powermatic or Oneway
>> instead of Grizzly or Central Machinery, because you want to the best?
>
> Absolutely not, but it would be if I said I used those tools while in the
> midst of an argument about my tools being better than the ones most
> everybody else had. Which is exactly what you did.
>
> Don't play dumb with me Mike. There was criticism in the way you said that a
> Mac was a better product. Saying it one way some might consider as fact..
> Saying it the way you did was tantamount to saying "mine is better than
> yours" and that's an act of malice.
>
> You want to brag about Macs, feel free to do it all you want. Do it while
> putting down PC users at the same time, then expect you're going to get
> feedback.
>
> Certainly, there's some things better about a Mac. I could list just as many
> different things that are better about Windows. There's advantages to both
> and that's something you can't argue against.
>

Can't? No. Won't? Yes.

It's run its course and guys are getting offended, so I'm done.

I might need some woodworking advice some day. :-)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On Sun, 28 Dec 2008 17:19:01 -0800 (PST), Charlie Self
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Heh. Well, Safari isn't exactly a Wonderland, either. I've spent
>upwards of six hours trying to update my web site, only to have it
>fail on one page or another on Safari, while the changes come right
>through on Firefox.
>
>An old definition of insanity was attempting to get different results
>by doing the same thing over and over again. Sounds more like working
>with a damned computer to me. You've got to be laid up to the point
>where the only other constructive thing you can do is read to mess
>with this shit.
>
>
>[email protected] wrote:
>> On Dec 28, 11:24?am, Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> > I agree that Firefox is 'out-featuring' themselves into being too
>> > cumbersome. Every upgrade makes it slower.
>> > Safari is simple and quick. That works for me. The Firefoxes are still
>> > around for that odd page that Safari won't play with.
>>
>> I am beginning to think so as well. I upgraded to the lastest
>> version, and it performs well, but it is getting cluttered and a
>> little clumsy. I still can't figure out how to effectively remove
>> bookmarks and histories as they cross reference each other in FF3.
>> Several trips to the FF3 forums have yielded good information, but all
>> I want to do is to "uncheck" or unhighlight some old favorite place
>> and have it gone.
>>
>> You can remove the book mark, but it may still be in your favorite
>> places, so it isn't really gone at all. The reverse is true as well.
>>
>> And I don't need to see my most recent history displayed. No way to
>> stop that, either short of going into another screen an just deleting
>> all of it.
>>
>> At any rate, still 2.000 light years ahead of MS E7. May have to look
>> into Safari. The nerd squads sure like it.
>>
>> Robert
You know the old saying "you don't have to be crazy to work here, but
it sure helps"?
That's the computer business. The definition of insanity is correct -
and very applicable to the computer service business,

You have to figure out what needs to be done, then do it as often as
necessary to get it to work. Start second guessing yourself, and it's
all over - you will NEVER get the job done, because you are chasing a
moving target.

"-MIKE-" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> As OS goes, MS has been transparently and ineptly trying to copy
> Mac OS for 25 years. And as you put it, "that's a simple fact."

?! Do you mean with a mouse centric GUI? API? Drivers and peripherals
interface? File systems? Which part of the OS?

1983, 25 years ago, was the hey day of MSDOS, the birth of the IBM PC, and
the beginning of the end for CP/M. The Lisa came out about then, and crashed
and burned. Windows and the first Mac appeared shortly after. Desqview was
still in the running (briefly), and if you ask me, it was the better product
and closer to Windows than the Mac's one button mouse. If you're talking
about the mouse and the GUI, you'll have to credit not Apple and Mac, but
Xerox PARC.

I have a long history of buying Apple products, all of them harbingers of
things to come, but years before the world was ready for them, and years
before the technology was available to support the vision. The Mac, Newton,
and even the original ipod all led the way. This is to Apple's credit. What
they don't have, though, is dominant marketshare. This is the simple fact.

Charlie Self wrote:
> Heh. Well, Safari isn't exactly a Wonderland, either. I've spent
> upwards of six hours trying to update my web site, only to have it
> fail on one page or another on Safari, while the changes come right
> through on Firefox.
>
> An old definition of insanity was attempting to get different results
> by doing the same thing over and over again. Sounds more like working
> with a damned computer to me. You've got to be laid up to the point
> where the only other constructive thing you can do is read to mess
> with this shit.
>

I've never used Safari or Firefox so can't help you there. I started
with Netscape
The first or second version, then Mozilla when Netscape went tits up.
Mozilla morphed into Seamonkey and I have been with it the whole time.

I can sympathize with you, though--I have been struggling to get
bluetooth up and running on my notebook for two weeks with no real
results. I had visions of cordless headphones, mouse and speakers but
no joy. Am awaiting a new dongle to see if it will work.


--
Gerald Ross
Cochran, GA

Social Security: World's biggest Ponzi Scheme.

Maxwell Lol wrote:
> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> writes:
>
>> Maxwell Lol wrote:
>>> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> writes:
>>>
>>>> Maxwell Lol wrote:
>>>>> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> writes:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> There are literally dozens of browsers available, many of which
>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>> open source. People can choose a browser that best fits their
>>>>>>> needs
>>>>>>> and personality. We're not stuck with what Bill thinks is best
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> us.
>>>>>> So why do you need "dozens of browsers"? Don't _any_ of them
>>>>>> work?
>>>>> Huh?
>>>>>
>>>>> Who said any one needs dozens of browsers?
>>>> Well, apparently Mac users do.
>>> So you are making up facts, and then arguing against these "facts"?
>> Why mention that there are dozens if you don't need dozens?
>
> To quote your own words.
>
> "so for every application that runs on the niche market proprietary
> crap there are 8 that run on Windows."
>
> So apparently Windows needs 8 times the number of applications that
> MacOS needs.
>
>
and I'm wondering whose shoes will be filled up first...