Bidding on ebay

People do reserves so they can get some bidding started and still not have
to sell at a price below their (secret) minimum. I personally dislike this
tactic and ignore reserve auctions as a bidder (I think they betray a
certain lack of candor on the part of the seller - although some people
actually tell you their reserve in the text of their ad) and never use them
as a seller (and I've bought/sold a LOT of stuff on eBay).

After all, what is the point? you get a bunch of people to bid at a level
that you will not accept? You will not sell to them anyway. Also, you end up
paying the same eBay fee that you would if you had a simple auction, so you
save nothing. What I find more effective is to start the auction either at a
buck (you get lots of action) or at a level just below what you think you
need.

--

- GRL

"It's good to want things."

Steve Barr (philosopher, poet, humorist, chemist,
Visual Basic programmer)
"Paul O." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> This is my first time on ebay. Saw a Stanley plane that looked good so
> decided to try it. What the heck. The only thing I don't understand is the
> sellers reserve. Why isn't that the starting bid? Seems like the bidder
> should know at least the min. starting point. Oh well will learn I
suppose.
> Thanks.
>
> --
> Paul O.
> [email protected]
>
>

On 25 Apr 2004 18:46:33 -0700, [email protected] (hex)
wrote:

.
> The re-listing is free. It's a way to let the world do your market
>research for you.


Not any more.

eBay now charges a percentage of the reserve up front. This fee is
not refunded if you relist the item, only credited against the final
value fees. The listing fee is free the second time around.

I recently sold a $2000 item via reserve auction, paying about $40 up
front.

Barry

On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 13:46:55 GMT, Howard <[email protected]> wrote:


>eBay doesn't extend auctions. The individual sellers can extend their
>auctions under certain circumstances.

Check this out:
<http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/everyone-outage.html>

Barry

B a r r y <[email protected]> wrote:

>The problem is that eBay extends auctions. The ending times of mine
>seem to change on a regular basis.

eBay doesn't extend auctions. The individual sellers can extend their
auctions under certain circumstances.

There are *other* auction sites that will automatically extend an
auction if there is a bid placed in the last few minutes. This
discourages 'sniping' by rendering it ineffective. I'm a bit surprised
that eBay doesn't do this, because it would probably increase their
income (final value fees).

[email protected]
http://www.freshcoffee.biz

>Subject: Bidding on ebay

Another suggestion: Check the auction end time. Some sellers list their item
during an afternoon...which means the end of auction is in the afternoon. Alot
fewer people are watching auctions during this time period and unless they
prebid - there are some deals to be had.

I put in my maximum bid and then forget about it. If I win, I win. Other
people think that if they put in low bids, then maybe they can get it for
that price. When they are outbid, they put in a slightly higher bid, and so
on.
I can't image what is going on in their heads.

> Even though she pays $56.03, I put in her top bid
> of $65.00 within the last minute and it couldn't be
> beaten. You'll also notice my only two entries for
> her bids, other people did several each which is pointless.
>

"Wylie Williams" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I sold a few items on ebay last year and I found that when I started with
> an opening bid that was my minimum price the the auctions were sluggish to
> poor in respeonse.
>
> When I made my minimim price the reserve price and made the starting bid
$1
> there was much more interest and action.
>
> Why? Beats me, but that's what happened. Anybody else have a different
> experience of some advice? I want to put a few more items on ebay soon,
so
> some good advice would be appreciated.
>
> Wylie Williams
> The Speaker and Stereo Store
>
> "Paul O." <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > This is my first time on ebay. Saw a Stanley plane that looked good so
> > decided to try it. What the heck. The only thing I don't understand is
the
> > sellers reserve. Why isn't that the starting bid? Seems like the bidder
> > should know at least the min. starting point. Oh well will learn I
> suppose.
> > Thanks.

Marketing is just strange and you go with what works.
F'r example: some years ago I was selling floppy disk overruns
for a guy at electronics flea markets. He got diskettes with labels
and current market programs on them by the pickup load, all
thrown in to large boxes. There might be five disk in a set but
there would be dozens of sets in those boxes, some where.
All disk were sold for one dollar.
I would sort out sets and lay them on one end of the table and I
would make a heaping pile on the other. I'ld sell a thousand dollars
worth of disk from the pile and maybe a hundred dollars worth
from where I sorted them out.

On Sun, 25 Apr 2004 18:09:50 +0100, LRod
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Sun, 25 Apr 2004 09:18:59 -0700, "Paul O." <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>
>>This is my first time on ebay. Saw a Stanley plane that looked good so
>>decided to try it. What the heck. The only thing I don't understand is the
>>sellers reserve. Why isn't that the starting bid? Seems like the bidder
>>should know at least the min. starting point. Oh well will learn I suppose.
>
>The cost of the auction to the seller is based in part on the opening
>bid. So sellers often set low opening bids both to attract bidders and
>reduce costs. The danger to the seller in that is the auction ending
>before the price has been bid up to expectations.
>

eBay now whacks you for a percentage of the reserve price up front.
This cost is credited to the final value if the item sells, and lost
if the item does not, or the auction is ended early.

I guess too many people were selling off-line to a high bidder that
didn't meet a reserve. <G>

Barry

I sold a few items on ebay last year and I found that when I started with
an opening bid that was my minimum price the the auctions were sluggish to
poor in respeonse.

When I made my minimim price the reserve price and made the starting bid $1
there was much more interest and action.

Why? Beats me, but that's what happened. Anybody else have a different
experience of some advice? I want to put a few more items on ebay soon, so
some good advice would be appreciated.

Wylie Williams
The Speaker and Stereo Store

"Paul O." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> This is my first time on ebay. Saw a Stanley plane that looked good so
> decided to try it. What the heck. The only thing I don't understand is the
> sellers reserve. Why isn't that the starting bid? Seems like the bidder
> should know at least the min. starting point. Oh well will learn I
suppose.
> Thanks.
>
> --
> Paul O.
> [email protected]
>
>

> It's for sellers who wish to start the bidding low without having to
> actually sell below a secret price.
>
> Used to entice people to bid. Dubious effectiveness; I generally pass
> on auctions with a reserve, and I suspect that most would actually
> fetch a higher price without one.

That's good enough thinking about it, I think an RP should
only be used for fine things that are "must haves" and of a
high value.

Alex

On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 18:35:27 -0700, "AArDvarK" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>
>> >"sometimes SELLERS have MORALS and will
>> >not reveal to single BUYERS because it would
>> >UNFAIR to other buyers to whom the reserve
>> >was NOT revealed to. That's all it is. SIMPLE.
>>
>> Actually Ard, what I was wondering, and the gist of what I
>> was asking, that part that hasn't been answered was, why is
>> this "moral" and how is it unfair to other bidders?
>>
>> Simple question really. Care to ponder it a minute and get
>> back to us on it? Please take your time.
>>
>> UA100, who is wondering, if Ard's panties bunch up any
>> tighter she'll be squealing...
>
>woohoo ... an attack of a reply as unwarrented. Sorry but you
>seem not to be the shit worth replying to ... lower than shit?
>OOPS! Sorry I replied asshole ...
>
>Alex
>



alex.


you don't get it, do you?

I disagree.
You probably get more early action, but the early people never end up buying
it.
Personally I ignore auctions with reserve prices because you frequently
can't ever buy it because the reserve price is too high.
I set a minimum bid that is the minimum I will sell for. I usually get much
more, and have not been disappointed. Occasionally I don't get any bids
until the last couple hours, but it usually works out.

Paul O. wrote:
> This is my first time on ebay. Saw a Stanley plane that looked good so
> decided to try it. What the heck. The only thing I don't understand
> is the sellers reserve. Why isn't that the starting bid? Seems like
> the bidder should know at least the min. starting point. Oh well will
> learn I suppose. Thanks.

This practice seems ridiculous to me. When it occurs on something I want to
bid on, I email the seller and ask what the reserve price is. If they won't
say, I don't bid.

Mitch Berkson

xrongor wrote:
>
> well like i said, i think you need to rethink your process.
>
> a search of completed items speaks volumes and is all you need to do.
> it tells you the actual going rate (vs the sellers reserve which only
> tells you what the seller wants for it), if the price is rising or
> falling, how often such items come up, and it takes about 2 minutes.
>
> bottom line, if you dont know what the actual real going rate for an
> item is, you cannot make an informed decision about what to bid. the
> sellers reserve is meaningless except to the seller.

Admittedly I may be overvaluing my time, but, to tell you the truth, it's
not even worth the time it takes me to submit a bid if there's a chance it
will be lower than an undisclosed reserve. I don't need to spend my time
helping a seller do market research.

Mitch Berkson

"AArDvarK" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<5ZVic.20663$432.3696@fed1read01>...
> > It's for sellers who wish to start the bidding low without having to
> > actually sell below a secret price.
> >
> > Used to entice people to bid. Dubious effectiveness; I generally pass
> > on auctions with a reserve, and I suspect that most would actually
> > fetch a higher price without one.
>
> That's good enough thinking about it, I think an RP should
> only be used for fine things that are "must haves" and of a
> high value.
>
> Alex

The other reason some use reserve pricing is to test a market. Set
the reserve high and see how high the item get's bid up. Then since
it didn't sell re-list it starting about where the last auction ended.
The re-listing is free. It's a way to let the world do your market
research for you.

hex
-30-

xrongor wrote:
> ...
> if you ignore the reserve, and the other
> bidders, and simply bid what you want to pay you will either get it
> or you wont. same as if you knew what the reserve was. if knowing
> the reserve would change how much you might bid i think you need to
> rethink your bidding process.

The problem with this is that the buyer has to waste his time researching
what he thinks is a fair price for the item and may, ultimately, find that
that price is lower than the reserve price. Knowing the reserve would
affect the decision of whether to spend time determining, with greater
accuracy, what to bid.

Mitch Berkson

Right on, Kevin.

Does anyone beside me do this....If I've decided to bid on an item, I first
look to see what the shipping costs are and subtract it from the highest I
want to pay. Example: If the shipping is $8, and I want to pay a max of
$20, my max bid will be $12.

I bid on ebay to buy things CHEAP. I hate it when I see people bidding an
item up to retail (or beyond). Idiots !
Cheers!
Joe kb8qlr (291 ebay feedbacks)






"Kevin B" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:nmVic.20837$YP5.1532536@attbi_s02...
> Don't take eBay auctions to personally. Win some, lose some. Last
> November/December I paid about $175.00 for 7 different planes in 6
different
> auctions (#3 through #7, a #4 1/2 and a #5 1/2). Got great deals because
> there were about 12 other auctions I bailed out on when the price went to
> high and also lost a few bids in the last minute. I also sold my #5
Clifton,
> which was only 6 months old, for $160.00 to pay for all those gorgeous old
> Stanleys. The Clifton is about $200 brand new.
>
> From a sellers perspective, the reserve is the minimum price I'm willing
to
> accept for the item. The minimum bid is just a starting point and can be
> quite arbitrary. You could start at the reserve price, but the high start
> price might scare off curious bidders. Ultimately, and rightfully, the
> market for the item is what will determine how much you get or pay for the
> item regardless of the starting point.
>
> Not bidding on items because you don't know the reserve is ridiculous.
Your
> bidding should always be based upon how much you desire the item and how
> much you want to pay for it. Set your price, keep your discipline, and
don't
> worry about being out bid. Again, don't take eBay auctions to personally.
>
> My .02...
>
> kevinb
>
>
> "Paul O." <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > This is my first time on ebay. Saw a Stanley plane that looked good so
> > decided to try it. What the heck. The only thing I don't understand is
the
> > sellers reserve. Why isn't that the starting bid? Seems like the bidder
> > should know at least the min. starting point. Oh well will learn I
> suppose.
> > Thanks.
> >
> > --
> > Paul O.
> > [email protected]
> >
> >
>
>

> > The eBay rundown:
> >
> > Reserve price is seller's "won't sell less than" price.
> > Start the bidding at a low price because this is what
> > attracts people to doing any bidding in the first place,
> > set a reserve price for the minimum you will let the
> > item go for, or as much as you want to sell it for.
> > At the end of the auction if the reserve has not been
> > met, then the seller is not* obligated to sell to the
> > highest bidder. If it has been met, then by contract
> > the seller is* obligated to sell.
> >
> not on ebay. the seller is allowed to end the item early and many do. some
> sellers have a "hidden reserve" and will abort a no reserve ebay auction if
> the bidding doesn't get up there.
>
>

And Here is a perfect example of that, on this auction
page click "0 bids" and see what the seller did because
the bidding didn't go high enough:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3810750596
It's allowed too. Just happened yesterday. But the rule
is that the seller must* cancel every bid first before
ending (just to point it out).

Alex

AArDvarK wrote:
>
> It really is no big deal for a seller to reveal if they want,
> especially if they only care about making the money. But
> another point is, some seller are moral*. And it is unfair
> to other bidders to reveal. Some sellers simply say what
> it is right there in the sales text.

Moral? Are you kidding? Why is it unfair to reveal the reserve to any
bidder who requests it?

Mitch Berkson

"Unisaw A100" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> AArDvarK wrote:
> >It really is no big deal for a seller to reveal if they want,
> >especially if they only care about making the money. But
> >another point is, some seller are moral*. And it is unfair
> >to other bidders to reveal. Some sellers simply say what
> >it is right there in the sales text.
>
>
> Alex,
>
> OK. It's an auction, not a guessing game. It's not an
> audition to become the next Amazing Kreskin and, well, the
> reserve will be revealed anyway when it's met.
>
> Right?
>
> Good.
>
> I have in the past e-mailed a seller to ask what the reserve
> is and I've gotten the, "it wouldn't be fair to the others",
> argument as if by my knowing I'd have an advantage over the
> others?
>
> Hello?
>
> Is this thing on?
>
> It's still an auction. Right?
>
> Good.
>
> Anyways (not a word) I've never understood the "moral"
> argument. Can anyone es'plain it to me? I mean, if I know
> what the reserve is and I bid past it, isn't that the whole
> point/what the seller is wanting me to do?
>
> It's still an auction. Right?
>
> Good, but I'm wondering, why not reveal the reserve?
>
> UA100, who realized a long while ago that with eBay, and any
> auction for that matter, the only leverage worth a shit is a
> fat/fatter/fattest wallet...

the problem with this thinking is that it keeps the power in the hands of
the seller. if you ignore the reserve, and the other bidders, and simply
bid what you want to pay you will either get it or you wont. same as if you
knew what the reserve was. if knowing the reserve would change how much you
might bid i think you need to rethink your bidding process.

it just takes enough discipline to ignore what you cannot control. the only
thing you can control is how much you want to pay and imho you should decide
this before bidding. if you allow external factors such as the sellers
reserve to change how much you are willing to pay you are playing into the
sellers hands.

by ignoring the reserve, the worst thing that can happen is you lose the
auction either by being outbid or by not meeting the reserve. by playing
into the reserve the worst thing you can do is pay too much. id rather lose
the auction than pay too much.

randy

i think lots of people lose out on auctions because of the perception that
shipping costs are too high. which works out for me because i can add and
subtract.

im with you. i take my maximum price im willing to pay, subtract the
shipping whether its 10 cents or 100 dollars, and make that my highest bid.

too many people think they have to win by getting the item no matter what
instead of winning by not getting the item and not paying too much.

randy

"KB8QLR" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Right on, Kevin.
>
> Does anyone beside me do this....If I've decided to bid on an item, I
first
> look to see what the shipping costs are and subtract it from the highest I
> want to pay. Example: If the shipping is $8, and I want to pay a max of
> $20, my max bid will be $12.
>
> I bid on ebay to buy things CHEAP. I hate it when I see people bidding an
> item up to retail (or beyond). Idiots !
> Cheers!
> Joe kb8qlr (291 ebay feedbacks)
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "Kevin B" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:nmVic.20837$YP5.1532536@attbi_s02...
> > Don't take eBay auctions to personally. Win some, lose some. Last
> > November/December I paid about $175.00 for 7 different planes in 6
> different
> > auctions (#3 through #7, a #4 1/2 and a #5 1/2). Got great deals because
> > there were about 12 other auctions I bailed out on when the price went
to
> > high and also lost a few bids in the last minute. I also sold my #5
> Clifton,
> > which was only 6 months old, for $160.00 to pay for all those gorgeous
old
> > Stanleys. The Clifton is about $200 brand new.
> >
> > From a sellers perspective, the reserve is the minimum price I'm willing
> to
> > accept for the item. The minimum bid is just a starting point and can be
> > quite arbitrary. You could start at the reserve price, but the high
start
> > price might scare off curious bidders. Ultimately, and rightfully, the
> > market for the item is what will determine how much you get or pay for
the
> > item regardless of the starting point.
> >
> > Not bidding on items because you don't know the reserve is ridiculous.
> Your
> > bidding should always be based upon how much you desire the item and how
> > much you want to pay for it. Set your price, keep your discipline, and
> don't
> > worry about being out bid. Again, don't take eBay auctions to
personally.
> >
> > My .02...
> >
> > kevinb
> >
> >
> > "Paul O." <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > This is my first time on ebay. Saw a Stanley plane that looked good so
> > > decided to try it. What the heck. The only thing I don't understand is
> the
> > > sellers reserve. Why isn't that the starting bid? Seems like the
bidder
> > > should know at least the min. starting point. Oh well will learn I
> > suppose.
> > > Thanks.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Paul O.
> > > [email protected]
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

We've tried both ways, and after a couple hundred auctions it seemed to
work better our way for us. To each his own, I guess. Mark

Toller wrote:

> I disagree.
> You probably get more early action, but the early people never end up buying
> it.
> Personally I ignore auctions with reserve prices because you frequently
> can't ever buy it because the reserve price is too high.
> I set a minimum bid that is the minimum I will sell for. I usually get much
> more, and have not been disappointed. Occasionally I don't get any bids
> until the last couple hours, but it usually works out.
>
>

> Ok. Lets say for whatever reason no one else bids on it and the reserve is
> not met. Will the buyer offer it to me at a buy at this price now?

Only if they want to ... the new thing of a seller being able
to do that while the sale remains under the contract might
be in effect, I don't know. But, do some reading on eBay
for buyers and sellers. I havn't read-up on it yet.

If they say yes or offer, and it is not* under the contract then
that is where to be wary*, if you send your money off into
the wild blue yonder, they could rip you off seriously.

Paypal offers theft insurance for it's buyers, I saw it costs
.80 cents on one sale I paid for.

> I think I read if there is more than one bidder w/o the reserve being
> met this happens but not sure with only one bidder.

If so then only the top bidder, you'd have to ask the seller.

Alex

"AArDvarK" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:OIgjc.82$k24.42@fed1read01...
>
> > Gary wrote:
> > >EBay is an auction. I think its quite customary practice in an auction
> > >where a reserve is set to not disclose the reserve price until it has
been
> > >met. This gives the seller somewhat of an advantage in that bidders,
who
> > >might not otherwise have made a bid if they had known the reserve, get
> > >caught up in the excitement of a bidding competition, and pay more than
what
> > >they would may have otherwise paid.
> >
> >
> >
> > Is this the "moral" reason Aardvark was talking about?
> >
> > UA100
>
> sheesh ... can't you figure out what I wrote ??
>
> "sometimes SELLERS have MORALS and will
> not reveal to single BUYERS because it would
> UNFAIR to other buyers to whom the reserve
> was NOT revealed to. That's all it is. SIMPLE.
>
> Alex

gary summed it up nicely. if you are prone to getting caught up in a
bidding competition you are going to pay too much. the ONLY way to get the
best prices on ebay is to determine the fair market value via your own
methods and ignore the reserve. the worst that will happen is you will lose
the auction, but at least you wont be overpaying based on some sellers
arbitrary reserve price.

if you know what something is worth, and make an informed decision on what
to bid, the reserve price is meaningless.

randy

"Mitch Berkson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:75Uic.17057$S42.5361@lakeread03...
> Paul O. wrote:
> > This is my first time on ebay. Saw a Stanley plane that looked good so
> > decided to try it. What the heck. The only thing I don't understand
> > is the sellers reserve. Why isn't that the starting bid?

before you waste a lot of $ and time(and your mental health) on eBay get the
book _Online Auctions @ eBay(3rd edition) by Dennis Prince( about $20)

Larry
--
Lawrence L'Hote
Columbia, MO
http://home.mchsi.com/~larrylhote
http://home.mchsi.com/~llhote

I've sold maybe 500 items on eBay and I think I only used a reserve once (an
original Dali painting), but I think I understand why the seller wouldn't
want you to know the reserve. If you know the reserve you might not bid.
No problem, right? As you said it's an auction and if you aren't going to
meet the reserve then why even bid. However, from the seller's
point-of-view an auction is a competition and even if YOU aren't willing to
meet the reserve your bid might cause someone else to increase their bid.
This wouldn't be true if everyone just set their top price and forgot about
the auction, but people get competitive.

For what it's worth, I just set a low starting price (under $10) with no
reserve and let the market drive the price up. In almost all cases it does.
All it takes is two people to get the price up to a reasonable amount. The
only time you get burned in this situation is if only one person wants to
bid. If that's the case then the item being auctioned probably isn't worth
anything anyway. YMMV

--
Larry C in Auburn, WA

"Unisaw A100" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> AArDvarK wrote:
> >It really is no big deal for a seller to reveal if they want,
> >especially if they only care about making the money. But
> >another point is, some seller are moral*. And it is unfair
> >to other bidders to reveal. Some sellers simply say what
> >it is right there in the sales text.
>
>
> Alex,
>
> OK. It's an auction, not a guessing game. It's not an
> audition to become the next Amazing Kreskin and, well, the
> reserve will be revealed anyway when it's met.
>
> Right?
>
> Good.
>
> I have in the past e-mailed a seller to ask what the reserve
> is and I've gotten the, "it wouldn't be fair to the others",
> argument as if by my knowing I'd have an advantage over the
> others?
>
> Hello?
>
> Is this thing on?
>
> It's still an auction. Right?
>
> Good.
>
> Anyways (not a word) I've never understood the "moral"
> argument. Can anyone es'plain it to me? I mean, if I know
> what the reserve is and I bid past it, isn't that the whole
> point/what the seller is wanting me to do?
>
> It's still an auction. Right?
>
> Good, but I'm wondering, why not reveal the reserve?
>
> UA100, who realized a long while ago that with eBay, and any
> auction for that matter, the only leverage worth a shit is a
> fat/fatter/fattest wallet...

thats the way i feel too. i choose my price not the other bidders. if i
get outbid, so be it. ebays proxy system makes sure you only pay enough to
beat the next highest bidder anyway. it doesnt matter if that bidder is
bidding 10 days or 10 seconds before the end of the auction. if they dont
beat my price, they dont get it. if they do, they can have it.

randy

"Toller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I put in my maximum bid and then forget about it. If I win, I win. Other
> people think that if they put in low bids, then maybe they can get it for
> that price. When they are outbid, they put in a slightly higher bid, and
so
> on.
> I can't image what is going on in their heads.
>
> > Even though she pays $56.03, I put in her top bid
> > of $65.00 within the last minute and it couldn't be
> > beaten. You'll also notice my only two entries for
> > her bids, other people did several each which is pointless.
> >
>
>

"Mitch Berkson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:BRcjc.116$%o1.104@lakeread03...
> xrongor wrote:
> > ...
> > if you ignore the reserve, and the other
> > bidders, and simply bid what you want to pay you will either get it
> > or you wont. same as if you knew what the reserve was. if knowing
> > the reserve would change how much you might bid i think you need to
> > rethink your bidding process.
>
> The problem with this is that the buyer has to waste his time researching
> what he thinks is a fair price for the item and may, ultimately, find that
> that price is lower than the reserve price. Knowing the reserve would
> affect the decision of whether to spend time determining, with greater
> accuracy, what to bid.
>
> Mitch Berkson

well like i said, i think you need to rethink your process.

a search of completed items speaks volumes and is all you need to do. it
tells you the actual going rate (vs the sellers reserve which only tells you
what the seller wants for it), if the price is rising or falling, how often
such items come up, and it takes about 2 minutes.

bottom line, if you dont know what the actual real going rate for an item
is, you cannot make an informed decision about what to bid. the sellers
reserve is meaningless except to the seller.

randy

> Gary wrote:
> >EBay is an auction. I think its quite customary practice in an auction
> >where a reserve is set to not disclose the reserve price until it has been
> >met. This gives the seller somewhat of an advantage in that bidders, who
> >might not otherwise have made a bid if they had known the reserve, get
> >caught up in the excitement of a bidding competition, and pay more than what
> >they would may have otherwise paid.
>
>
>
> Is this the "moral" reason Aardvark was talking about?
>
> UA100

sheesh ... can't you figure out what I wrote ??

"sometimes SELLERS have MORALS and will
not reveal to single BUYERS because it would
UNFAIR to other buyers to whom the reserve
was NOT revealed to. That's all it is. SIMPLE.

Alex

I have to agree with Wylie. If you start the auction at a relatively
high price, not much bidding will take place. If you start it at $1,
and set a reserve, you will see a lot more bidding. Granted, a lot of
this has to do with psychology. Just as if you were to list a house for
sale at a deeply discounted price, even less than what it's worth.
Almost all buyers will still want to attempt to talk you down in price.
Human nature I guess??? Mark

Wylie Williams wrote:

> I sold a few items on ebay last year and I found that when I started with
> an opening bid that was my minimum price the the auctions were sluggish to
> poor in respeonse.
>
> When I made my minimim price the reserve price and made the starting bid $1
> there was much more interest and action.
>
> Why? Beats me, but that's what happened. Anybody else have a different
> experience of some advice? I want to put a few more items on ebay soon, so
> some good advice would be appreciated.
>
> Wylie Williams
> The Speaker and Stereo Store
>
> "Paul O." <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>This is my first time on ebay. Saw a Stanley plane that looked good so
>>decided to try it. What the heck. The only thing I don't understand is the
>>sellers reserve. Why isn't that the starting bid? Seems like the bidder
>>should know at least the min. starting point. Oh well will learn I
>
> suppose.
>
>>Thanks.
>>
>>--
>>Paul O.
>>[email protected]
>>
>>
>
>
>

"Mitch Berkson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:84kjc.399$%o1.379@lakeread03...
> xrongor wrote:
> >
> > well like i said, i think you need to rethink your process.
> >
> > a search of completed items speaks volumes and is all you need to do.
> > it tells you the actual going rate (vs the sellers reserve which only
> > tells you what the seller wants for it), if the price is rising or
> > falling, how often such items come up, and it takes about 2 minutes.
> >
> > bottom line, if you dont know what the actual real going rate for an
> > item is, you cannot make an informed decision about what to bid. the
> > sellers reserve is meaningless except to the seller.
>
> Admittedly I may be overvaluing my time, but, to tell you the truth, it's
> not even worth the time it takes me to submit a bid if there's a chance it
> will be lower than an undisclosed reserve. I don't need to spend my time
> helping a seller do market research.
>
> Mitch Berkson

after eliminating people that wont bid if shipping is too high and people
who wont bid on reserve auctions, no wonder i get such good deals on ebay
<g>

randy

"AArDvarK" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:dyTic.20633$432.19330@fed1read01...
>
> "Paul O." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> > This is my first time on ebay. Saw a Stanley plane that looked good so
> > decided to try it. What the heck. The only thing I don't understand is
the
> > sellers reserve. Why isn't that the starting bid? Seems like the bidder
> > should know at least the min. starting point. Oh well will learn I
suppose.
> > Thanks.
> >
> > --
> > Paul O.
> > [email protected]
> >
> >
>
> The eBay rundown:
>
> Reserve price is seller's "won't sell less than" price.
> Start the bidding at a low price because this is what
> attracts people to doing any bidding in the first place,
> set a reserve price for the minimum you will let the
> item go for, or as much as you want to sell it for.
> At the end of the auction if the reserve has not been
> met, then the seller is not* obligated to sell to the
> highest bidder.
>
> Good luck next time,
> Alex
>
>
> Ok. Lets say for whatever reason no one else bids on it and the reserve is
not met. Will the buyer offer it to me at a buy at this price now? I think I
read if there is more than one bidder w/o the reserve being met this
happens but not sure with only one bidder.
--
Paul O.
[email protected]
>
>

EBay is an auction. I think its quite customary practice in an auction
where a reserve is set to not disclose the reserve price until it has been
met. This gives the seller somewhat of an advantage in that bidders, who
might not otherwise have made a bid if they had known the reserve, get
caught up in the excitement of a bidding competition, and pay more than what
they would may have otherwise paid.

Gary


"Mitch Berkson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:BRcjc.116$%o1.104@lakeread03...
> xrongor wrote:
> > ...
> > if you ignore the reserve, and the other
> > bidders, and simply bid what you want to pay you will either get it
> > or you wont. same as if you knew what the reserve was. if knowing
> > the reserve would change how much you might bid i think you need to
> > rethink your bidding process.
>
> The problem with this is that the buyer has to waste his time researching
> what he thinks is a fair price for the item and may, ultimately, find that
> that price is lower than the reserve price. Knowing the reserve would
> affect the decision of whether to spend time determining, with greater
> accuracy, what to bid.
>
> Mitch Berkson
>
>

"Paul O." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> This is my first time on ebay. Saw a Stanley plane that looked good so
> decided to try it. What the heck. The only thing I don't understand is the
> sellers reserve. Why isn't that the starting bid? Seems like the bidder
> should know at least the min. starting point. Oh well will learn I
suppose.
> Thanks.
>
> -- Well 45 minutes left in the auction. I bid on a #4 Stanley. Pretty
clean looking. Have no idea how old it is. Finally a couple more bids showed
up so I upped my (final) bid to $30.00. Still reserve has not been met. I
have seen planes before for around $35.00, so think I'll let this one go on.
If anyone would care to look at it and tell me what they think, the # is
3287862712 . Might give me some clue for the next time. Thanks all.
--
Paul O.
[email protected]
> Paul O.
> [email protected]
>
>

Gary wrote:
>EBay is an auction. I think its quite customary practice in an auction
>where a reserve is set to not disclose the reserve price until it has been
>met. This gives the seller somewhat of an advantage in that bidders, who
>might not otherwise have made a bid if they had known the reserve, get
>caught up in the excitement of a bidding competition, and pay more than what
>they would may have otherwise paid.



Is this the "moral" reason Aardvark was talking about?

UA100

"Paul O." <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> This is my first time on ebay. Saw a Stanley plane that looked good so
> decided to try it. What the heck. The only thing I don't understand is the
> sellers reserve. Why isn't that the starting bid? Seems like the bidder
> should know at least the min. starting point. Oh well will learn I suppose.
> Thanks.
>
> --
> Paul O.
> [email protected]
>
>

The eBay rundown:

Reserve price is seller's "won't sell less than" price.
Start the bidding at a low price because this is what
attracts people to doing any bidding in the first place,
set a reserve price for the minimum you will let the
item go for, or as much as you want to sell it for.
At the end of the auction if the reserve has not been
met, then the seller is not* obligated to sell to the
highest bidder. If it has been met, then by contract
the seller is* obligated to sell.

If super quality pictures are give for show then
people go crazy trying to win. Money comes.

During bidding it is also legal to steal the top bid
within the last minute of the auction even if you've
never placed a bid on the same before, at that time
you can send in a bid that can't be topped and win,
but pay that much. It is what eBay calls "automatic
bidding". That price will remain until someone else
outbids you, and if they under bid you it raises your
bid price to anywhere under your top bid.

Lotsa fun!

One evil thing in bidding is that people bid time after
time in order to win when it is not a race, all they're
doing is raising the price. One only needs to, or even
not to bid only once, then battle it out within the last
minute.

As an example, I just won this bid for my mother in
her own sign in, click on the link that says "21 bids"
and you can see how it went:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3287697291
Even though she pays $56.03, I put in her top bid
of $65.00 within the last minute and it couldn't be
beaten. You'll also notice my only two entries for
her bids, other people did several each which is pointless.

In order to know what is going on toward the end of
the auction you must, that is to say MUST keep on
refreshing(MS IE) / reloading(NS) the page.

Good luck next time,
Alex

> I bid on ebay to buy things CHEAP. I hate it when I see people bidding an
> item up to retail (or beyond). Idiots !
> Cheers!
> Joe kb8qlr (291 ebay feedbacks)

True, they bid and bid like dorks one time after the next
as if it were literaly a race to "win", they're only raising
the price for zero reasons.

Alex

AArDvarK wrote:
>woohoo ... an attack of a reply as unwarrented. Sorry but you
>seem not to be the shit worth replying to ... lower than shit?
>OOPS! Sorry I replied asshole ...


So what you're say is, you don't know?

Thanks.

UA100

On Sun, 25 Apr 2004 12:54:15 -0700, "AArDvarK" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>> This practice seems ridiculous to me. When it occurs on something I want to
>> bid on, I email the seller and ask what the reserve price is. If they won't
>> say, I don't bid.
>
>It really is no big deal for a seller to reveal if they want,
>especially if they only care about making the money. But
>another point is, some seller are moral*. And it is unfair
>to other bidders to reveal.
-snip-

Alex, that might be arguable. I would argue the point this way:

Let's assume you are selling with an undisclosed reserve. I, as a bidder, request that you disclose the reserve to me. You do so. I
can then either choose to place a bid at or above the reserve price, or I can decide the price is too high and go away.

If I decide the price is too high and go away, there has been no effect on the auction or the other bidders. No effect means that no
harm has been inflicted therefore no unfair/unethical activity has occurred. (This assumes that an unfair/unethical action always
results in harm to some party.)

If I decide to place a bid at the reserve price or higher, the effect is the same whether or not I had advance knowledge of the
reserve price. The bid is entered at the reserve price (even if my maximum bid was higher) and the amount of the reserve price is
immediately revealed for all to see. At that point, the existence of a reserve is moot. My knowing the amount of the reserve has not
given me any advantage over any of the other bidders, so again, no harm inflicted, no unfair/unethical activity.

Just my (possibly weird) view of the situation.


Tom Veatch
Wichita, KS USA

AArDvarK wrote:
>
> "sometimes SELLERS have MORALS and will
> not reveal to single BUYERS because it would
> UNFAIR to other buyers to whom the reserve
> was NOT revealed to. That's all it is. SIMPLE.

So do SELLERS who have MORALS reveal the reserve to every BUYER who asks?

Mitch Berkson

On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 18:35:27 -0700, "AArDvarK" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>woohoo ... an attack of a reply as unwarrented. Sorry but you
>seem not to be the shit worth replying to ... lower than shit?
>OOPS! Sorry I replied asshole ...

THIS reply from someone invoking a morals aspect?

How about just answering the question, "how does revealing/not
revealing a reserve amount involve morals?"

- -
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

http://www.woodbutcher.net

On Sun, 25 Apr 2004 21:41:19 GMT, "Toller" <[email protected]> wrote:

>I put in my maximum bid and then forget about it. If I win, I win. Other
>people think that if they put in low bids, then maybe they can get it for
>that price. When they are outbid, they put in a slightly higher bid, and so
>on.
>I can't image what is going on in their heads.
>

That is what I do, also. However, I will wait until the last few minutes to do so. Why wait? Because there seem to be a bunch of
people out there that think an auction is some kind of contest which you can win or lose. They are the ones (or some of the ones)
who do the multiple rebidding. It's as if they can't accept "losing" and keep inching the bid up until they "win".

Does that make me a "sniper"? Perhaps. But I've learned that putting in a reasonable bid early in the bidding is an almost sure way
to be outbid by one of the "nibblers".

Tom Veatch
Wichita, KS USA

Mitch Berkson wrote:
> Paul O. wrote:
>> This is my first time on ebay. Saw a Stanley plane that looked good
>> so decided to try it. What the heck. The only thing I don't
>> understand is the sellers reserve. Why isn't that the starting bid?
>> Seems like the bidder should know at least the min. starting point.
>> Oh well will learn I suppose. Thanks.
>
> This practice seems ridiculous to me. When it occurs on something I
> want to bid on, I email the seller and ask what the reserve price is.
> If they won't say, I don't bid.
>
> Mitch Berkson

I agree. I won't waste my time with a mystery reserve.

> >"sometimes SELLERS have MORALS and will
> >not reveal to single BUYERS because it would
> >UNFAIR to other buyers to whom the reserve
> >was NOT revealed to. That's all it is. SIMPLE.
>
> Actually Ard, what I was wondering, and the gist of what I
> was asking, that part that hasn't been answered was, why is
> this "moral" and how is it unfair to other bidders?
>
> Simple question really. Care to ponder it a minute and get
> back to us on it? Please take your time.
>
> UA100, who is wondering, if Ard's panties bunch up any
> tighter she'll be squealing...

woohoo ... an attack of a reply as unwarrented. Sorry but you
seem not to be the shit worth replying to ... lower than shit?
OOPS! Sorry I replied asshole ...

Alex

AArDvarK wrote:
>It really is no big deal for a seller to reveal if they want,
>especially if they only care about making the money. But
>another point is, some seller are moral*. And it is unfair
>to other bidders to reveal. Some sellers simply say what
>it is right there in the sales text.


Alex,

OK. It's an auction, not a guessing game. It's not an
audition to become the next Amazing Kreskin and, well, the
reserve will be revealed anyway when it's met.

Right?

Good.

I have in the past e-mailed a seller to ask what the reserve
is and I've gotten the, "it wouldn't be fair to the others",
argument as if by my knowing I'd have an advantage over the
others?

Hello?

Is this thing on?

It's still an auction. Right?

Good.

Anyways (not a word) I've never understood the "moral"
argument. Can anyone es'plain it to me? I mean, if I know
what the reserve is and I bid past it, isn't that the whole
point/what the seller is wanting me to do?

It's still an auction. Right?

Good, but I'm wondering, why not reveal the reserve?

UA100, who realized a long while ago that with eBay, and any
auction for that matter, the only leverage worth a shit is a
fat/fatter/fattest wallet...

"Paul O." <[email protected]> wrote:

>The only thing I don't understand is the
>sellers reserve. Why isn't that the starting bid?

It's for sellers who wish to start the bidding low without having to
actually sell below a secret price.

Used to entice people to bid. Dubious effectiveness; I generally pass
on auctions with a reserve, and I suspect that most would actually
fetch a higher price without one.

[email protected]
http://www.freshcoffee.biz

AArDvarK wrote:
>sheesh ... can't you figure out what I wrote ??

Absolutely and without a doubt no problems there. The
trouble is, after you'd written what you'd written (below) I
asked a question and it was that very question that went
unanswered. As a matter of fact, a couple of others also
asked and their questions went unanswered.

>"sometimes SELLERS have MORALS and will
>not reveal to single BUYERS because it would
>UNFAIR to other buyers to whom the reserve
>was NOT revealed to. That's all it is. SIMPLE.

Actually Ard, what I was wondering, and the gist of what I
was asking, that part that hasn't been answered was, why is
this "moral" and how is it unfair to other bidders?

Simple question really. Care to ponder it a minute and get
back to us on it? Please take your time.

UA100, who is wondering, if Ard's panties bunch up any
tighter she'll be squealing...

On 27 Apr 2004 02:14:41 GMT, [email protected] (Glider Rider)
wrote:

>>Subject: Bidding on ebay
>
>Another suggestion: Check the auction end time. Some sellers list their item
>during an afternoon...which means the end of auction is in the afternoon. Alot
>fewer people are watching auctions during this time period and unless they
>prebid - there are some deals to be had.

The problem is that eBay extends auctions. The ending times of mine
seem to change on a regular basis.

Also remember, afternoon in the Eastern US is morning in the Western
US, and evening 'cross the pond. <G>

Barry

Don't take eBay auctions to personally. Win some, lose some. Last
November/December I paid about $175.00 for 7 different planes in 6 different
auctions (#3 through #7, a #4 1/2 and a #5 1/2). Got great deals because
there were about 12 other auctions I bailed out on when the price went to
high and also lost a few bids in the last minute. I also sold my #5 Clifton,
which was only 6 months old, for $160.00 to pay for all those gorgeous old
Stanleys. The Clifton is about $200 brand new.

From a sellers perspective, the reserve is the minimum price I'm willing to
accept for the item. The minimum bid is just a starting point and can be
quite arbitrary. You could start at the reserve price, but the high start
price might scare off curious bidders. Ultimately, and rightfully, the
market for the item is what will determine how much you get or pay for the
item regardless of the starting point.

Not bidding on items because you don't know the reserve is ridiculous. Your
bidding should always be based upon how much you desire the item and how
much you want to pay for it. Set your price, keep your discipline, and don't
worry about being out bid. Again, don't take eBay auctions to personally.

My .02...

kevinb


"Paul O." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> This is my first time on ebay. Saw a Stanley plane that looked good so
> decided to try it. What the heck. The only thing I don't understand is the
> sellers reserve. Why isn't that the starting bid? Seems like the bidder
> should know at least the min. starting point. Oh well will learn I
suppose.
> Thanks.
>
> --
> Paul O.
> [email protected]
>
>

On Sun, 25 Apr 2004 12:54:15 -0700, "AArDvarK" <[email protected]>
wrote:

> But another point is, some seller are moral*. And it is unfair
>to other bidders to reveal.

How exactly is that unfair? Anyone who is willing to give it away
will probably give it to anyone.

I prefer to list reserves right in the text, as the "How much is the
reserve?" email gets to be a pain.

I don't understand why a reserve needs to be a secret. If the item is
worth more than the reserve, the free market will carry it higher. If
the reserve is unrealistic, it won't be met.

A good bidder's bottom line is this, if you bid what the item is
worth, and the reserve isn't met, walk away. If the reserve is met
while you think the item is still a decent value, stay! This is
regardless of if the reserve is public, provided via email, or secret.

People who think of auctions as games, doing no research on the true
value of an item, deserve to pay too much. Hey, they set the selling
price! <G>

Barry

On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 13:46:55 GMT, Howard <[email protected]> wrote:

>B a r r y <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>The problem is that eBay extends auctions. The ending times of mine
>>seem to change on a regular basis.
>
>eBay doesn't extend auctions. The individual sellers can extend their
>auctions under certain circumstances.

Actually, they do. Sometimes a system problem will occur and they'll
add hours to auctions. It's happened to me as a seller on several
occasions.

Barry

LRod wrote:
>How about just answering the question, "how does revealing/not
>revealing a reserve amount involve morals?"


LRod,

He can't because he doesn't know.

UA100

On Sun, 25 Apr 2004 09:18:59 -0700, "Paul O." <[email protected]>
wrote:

>This is my first time on ebay. Saw a Stanley plane that looked good so
>decided to try it. What the heck. The only thing I don't understand is the
>sellers reserve. Why isn't that the starting bid? Seems like the bidder
>should know at least the min. starting point. Oh well will learn I suppose.

The cost of the auction to the seller is based in part on the opening
bid. So sellers often set low opening bids both to attract bidders and
reduce costs. The danger to the seller in that is the auction ending
before the price has been bid up to expectations.

In order to protect the seller against the auction ending before a
price reasonable to the seller is reached one sets a reserve amount.
That's kept hidden to bidders, of course.

Auctions are not necessarily a true reflection of actual market value
as an item may end at an artificially low amount due to lack of
traffic or lack of interest. That may be a result of a poor choice of
title that doesn't get picked up by the ebay search engine, or it may
be a poor product description.

- -
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

http://www.woodbutcher.net

"Paul O." <[email protected]> wrote:

>Why isn't that the starting bid?

Another reason is based on possible ways of searching for active
auctions; You can sort by current high bid. If you are looking for
low cost items, a reserve makes it more likely that you will see the
auction.

While I don't much care for it myself, I have noticed that people get
caught up in "auction fever" when it looks like there is a competitive
bidding war in progress. I have seen stuff languish for days only to
be bid way past what they are worth (to me, anyway) within minutes of
my own bid...

[email protected]
http://www.freshcoffee.biz

> This practice seems ridiculous to me. When it occurs on something I want to
> bid on, I email the seller and ask what the reserve price is. If they won't
> say, I don't bid.

It really is no big deal for a seller to reveal if they want,
especially if they only care about making the money. But
another point is, some seller are moral*. And it is unfair
to other bidders to reveal. Some sellers simply say what
it is right there in the sales text.

Alex

AArDvarK wrote:
> "Paul O." <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> This is my first time on ebay. Saw a Stanley plane that looked good
>> so decided to try it. What the heck. The only thing I don't
>> understand is the sellers reserve. Why isn't that the starting bid?
>> Seems like the bidder should know at least the min. starting point.
>> Oh well will learn I suppose. Thanks.
>>
>> --
>> Paul O.
>> [email protected]
>>
>>
>
> The eBay rundown:
>
> Reserve price is seller's "won't sell less than" price.
> Start the bidding at a low price because this is what
> attracts people to doing any bidding in the first place,
> set a reserve price for the minimum you will let the
> item go for, or as much as you want to sell it for.
> At the end of the auction if the reserve has not been
> met, then the seller is not* obligated to sell to the
> highest bidder. If it has been met, then by contract
> the seller is* obligated to sell.
>
not on ebay. the seller is allowed to end the item early and many do. some
sellers have a "hidden reserve" and will abort a no reserve ebay auction if
the bidding doesn't get up there.