Dt

DerbyDad03

21/12/2018 8:04 AM

Electrical Connection Technique (A Woodworking Tool Is Involved)

Keeping this relevant to the wRec, the following video shows us how to replace
the power cord on a circular saw.

If you start at 4:30, you will see a technique for creating a "ring connector"
from the bare power cord wires. What do think of this technique?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61e5xG4kqXE

I have some issues with some of the other things he says and does in the video,
but this question is mainly about the connection method he uses.


This topic has 63 replies

JG

Joseph Gwinn

in reply to DerbyDad03 on 21/12/2018 8:04 AM

21/12/2018 11:52 AM

On Dec 21, 2018, DerbyDad03 wrote
(in article<[email protected]>):

> Keeping this relevant to the wRec, the following video shows us how to replace
> the power cord on a circular saw.
>
> If you start at 4:30, you will see a technique for creating a "ring connector"
> from the bare power cord wires. What do think of this technique?
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D61e5xG4kqXE>
>
> I have some issues with some of the other things he says and does in the
> video, but this question is mainly about the connection method he uses.

The proper method is to crimp a ring crimp terminal onto the wires, if there
is space -- which looks questionable in this case.

In the old days, manufacturers crimped a hollow brass eyelet around the
stranded wire, creating a solid metal ring, but I have not seen that in ages,
and it wasn=B4t something that one could afford to do at home anyway.

Failing that, I twist the copper strands into a solid bundle and tin the
bundle with liquid rosin flux and radio solder, making a solid wire. This is
bent around the terminal screw in the direction of tightening, and the screw
is tightened. The wrap direction is critical to ensure that the wire does not
squeeze out from under the terminal screw.

One could also form an eyelet as shown in the video, and then tinned the
copper wire to solidify the ring.

The key is to ensure that thge terminal screw cannot cut the wire while being
tightened.

.
I would not have drilled the plastic to get to the torx screws in the plastic
handle. One can get torx screwdriver inserts with 6" shafts.

I could not see how the cable was clamped on entry to the saw handle, but
this area is critical.

Joe Gwinn

Mm

Markem

in reply to Joseph Gwinn on 21/12/2018 11:52 AM

22/12/2018 1:26 PM

On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 12:49:21 -0600, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On 12/22/18 12:38 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>> On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 13:11:47 -0500, Clare Snyder <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 11:48:54 -0500, Joseph Gwinn
>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Dec 22, 2018, [email protected] wrote
>>>> (in article<[email protected]>):
>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, 21 Dec 2018 13:56:57 -0500, Clare Snyder<[email protected]>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, 21 Dec 2018 13:31:34 -0500, J. Clarke
>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, 21 Dec 2018 13:24:03 -0500, Joseph Gwinn
>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Dec 21, 2018, DerbyDad03 wrote
>>>>>>>> (in article<[email protected]>):
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Friday, December 21, 2018 at 11:52:22 AM UTC-5, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Dec 21, 2018, DerbyDad03 wrote
>>>>>>>>>> (in article<[email protected]>):
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Keeping this relevant to the wRec, the following video shows us how to
>>>>>>>>>>> replace
>>>>>>>>>>> the power cord on a circular saw.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> If you start at 4:30, you will see a technique for creating a "ring
>>>>>>>>>>> connector"
>>>>>>>>>>> from the bare power cord wires. What do think of this technique?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61e5xG4kqXE>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I have some issues with some of the other things he says and does in
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> video, but this question is mainly about the connection method he uses.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The proper method is to crimp a ring crimp terminal onto the wires, if
>>>>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>>>> is space -- which looks questionable in this case.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The "eylet" procedure he uses is not uncommon - but to do it ptoperly
>>>>>> he should solder the loop
>>>>>
>>>>> *NOT* a good idea. Soldering the loop will put all the bending and
>>>>> vibration stress at the point where the solder ends. The wire will
>>>>> work-harden at that point.
>>>>
>>>> Only if one has not secured the cable at the entry point, as discussed
>>>> upthread.
>>>>
>>>> I have been doing this for decades, and have never had this problem.
>>>>
>>>> If the assembly was going to undergo military-level vibration testing, then
>>>> no soldering - must be crimped.
>>>>
>>>> Joe Gwinn
>>> As in aviation repairs - where "soldered connections MUST be
>>> supported" - which is generally interpreted as "crimp only"
>>
>> There's another issue with solder on connections that carry
>> significant power--heat it up and solder melts. I ran into this with
>> the ground cable on a Volvo once. Took me the longest time to figure
>> it out--when the weather was warm the car would start fine, when it
>> was cold it wouldn't, but when I checked things the battery and cables
>> were fine. Wasn't until I noticed something smoking one day that I
>> figured out that it was the soldered-on ground clamp that most of the
>> solder had run out of so there wasn't much contact but enough that a
>> meter showed low resistance. Had a connector one crimped on and the
>> problem went away.
>>
>> Admittedly this is less likely to be an issue with a saw but it's
>> still worth bearing in mind. There's a reason NEC requires pressure
>> connectors and not solder.
>>
>
>What the heck kind of solder did you use?
>Isn't the melting point of common solder up near 350 degrees?

Most wire solder for electronics around 700 F iron is used, solder
paste 185 C and 170 C ( for two sided boards that are soldered ).
Plumbing solder not sure.

CS

Clare Snyder

in reply to Joseph Gwinn on 21/12/2018 11:52 AM

22/12/2018 2:45 PM

On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 12:49:21 -0600, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On 12/22/18 12:38 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>> On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 13:11:47 -0500, Clare Snyder <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 11:48:54 -0500, Joseph Gwinn
>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Dec 22, 2018, [email protected] wrote
>>>> (in article<[email protected]>):
>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, 21 Dec 2018 13:56:57 -0500, Clare Snyder<[email protected]>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, 21 Dec 2018 13:31:34 -0500, J. Clarke
>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, 21 Dec 2018 13:24:03 -0500, Joseph Gwinn
>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Dec 21, 2018, DerbyDad03 wrote
>>>>>>>> (in article<[email protected]>):
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Friday, December 21, 2018 at 11:52:22 AM UTC-5, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Dec 21, 2018, DerbyDad03 wrote
>>>>>>>>>> (in article<[email protected]>):
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Keeping this relevant to the wRec, the following video shows us how to
>>>>>>>>>>> replace
>>>>>>>>>>> the power cord on a circular saw.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> If you start at 4:30, you will see a technique for creating a "ring
>>>>>>>>>>> connector"
>>>>>>>>>>> from the bare power cord wires. What do think of this technique?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61e5xG4kqXE>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I have some issues with some of the other things he says and does in
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> video, but this question is mainly about the connection method he uses.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The proper method is to crimp a ring crimp terminal onto the wires, if
>>>>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>>>> is space -- which looks questionable in this case.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The "eylet" procedure he uses is not uncommon - but to do it ptoperly
>>>>>> he should solder the loop
>>>>>
>>>>> *NOT* a good idea. Soldering the loop will put all the bending and
>>>>> vibration stress at the point where the solder ends. The wire will
>>>>> work-harden at that point.
>>>>
>>>> Only if one has not secured the cable at the entry point, as discussed
>>>> upthread.
>>>>
>>>> I have been doing this for decades, and have never had this problem.
>>>>
>>>> If the assembly was going to undergo military-level vibration testing, then
>>>> no soldering - must be crimped.
>>>>
>>>> Joe Gwinn
>>> As in aviation repairs - where "soldered connections MUST be
>>> supported" - which is generally interpreted as "crimp only"
>>
>> There's another issue with solder on connections that carry
>> significant power--heat it up and solder melts. I ran into this with
>> the ground cable on a Volvo once. Took me the longest time to figure
>> it out--when the weather was warm the car would start fine, when it
>> was cold it wouldn't, but when I checked things the battery and cables
>> were fine. Wasn't until I noticed something smoking one day that I
>> figured out that it was the soldered-on ground clamp that most of the
>> solder had run out of so there wasn't much contact but enough that a
>> meter showed low resistance. Had a connector one crimped on and the
>> problem went away.
>>
>> Admittedly this is less likely to be an issue with a saw but it's
>> still worth bearing in mind. There's a reason NEC requires pressure
>> connectors and not solder.
>>
>
>What the heck kind of solder did you use?
>Isn't the melting point of common solder up near 350 degrees?
70-30 is 376F. 63-37, which is the lowest melting point lead solder
is 361F.
60-40 - the most common electrical/electronic solder is up there at
370F as well.
Eutectic solders do not have a "plastic"stage - they melt and solidify
at virtually the same temperature making poor or "cold" joints
slightly less likely.

JG

Joseph Gwinn

in reply to DerbyDad03 on 21/12/2018 8:04 AM

21/12/2018 1:24 PM

On Dec 21, 2018, DerbyDad03 wrote
(in article<[email protected]>):

> On Friday, December 21, 2018 at 11:52:22 AM UTC-5, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
> > On Dec 21, 2018, DerbyDad03 wrote
> > (in article<[email protected]>):
> >
> > > Keeping this relevant to the wRec, the following video shows us how to
> > > replace
> > > the power cord on a circular saw.
> > >
> > > If you start at 4:30, you will see a technique for creating a "ring
> > > connector"
> > > from the bare power cord wires. What do think of this technique?
> > >
> > > <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D61e5xG4kqXE>
> > >
> > > I have some issues with some of the other things he says and does in the
> > > video, but this question is mainly about the connection method he uses.
> >
> > The proper method is to crimp a ring crimp terminal onto the wires, if there
> > is space -- which looks questionable in this case.
> >
> > In the old days, manufacturers crimped a hollow brass eyelet around the
> > stranded wire, creating a solid metal ring, but I have not seen that in
> > ages,
> > and it wasn=B4t something that one could afford to do at home anyway.
> >
> > Failing that, I twist the copper strands into a solid bundle and tin the
> > bundle with liquid rosin flux and radio solder, making a solid wire. This is
> > bent around the terminal screw in the direction of tightening, and the screw
> > is tightened. The wrap direction is critical to ensure that the wire does
> > not
> > squeeze out from under the terminal screw.
> >
> > One could also form an eyelet as shown in the video, and then tinned the
> > copper wire to solidify the ring.
> >
> > The key is to ensure that thge terminal screw cannot cut the wire while
> > being
> > tightened.
> >
> > .
> > I would not have drilled the plastic to get to the torx screws in the
> > plastic
> > handle. One can get torx screwdriver inserts with 6" shafts.
> >
> > I could not see how the cable was clamped on entry to the saw handle, but
> > this area is critical.
> >
> > Joe Gwinn
>
> BTW...I also don't like the fact that he used a 3 prong plug and cut the
> ground wire off on the inside, saying that using the 3 prong plug "doesn't
> hurt".
>
> I don't like doing that more on principle than on any actual "danger". I don't
> like giving the user the impression that a device is wired in a certain manner
> (e.g. equipment ground is present) when in reality it is wired differently.

I agree. I would have connected the green to the motor frame somehow. But
double-insulated does work anyway, so the safety is not reduced.

My lathe cane with floating green, and that lathe would give a tickle due to
leakage from motor windings to motor frame, and thus to lathe cabinet. The
short-tern fix was a green ground wite (with ring terminals at both ends)
from cabinet to electrical safety ground. Wen I rewired the lathe, I
discovered the floating green, and fixed the problem.

But I will say that the guy in the video probably is not an electrical guy,
and so would not know what to do with that wire if he could not find a green
terminal for it.

> I don't think that that tool would be approved by OSHA for use on a job site
> if they knew that the ground wire was not being used.

Well, actually it would have been approved when it came out, and also today.
Double-insulated is still OK by UL.

Joe Gwinn

JC

J. Clarke

in reply to Joseph Gwinn on 21/12/2018 1:24 PM

22/12/2018 4:30 PM

On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 14:34:40 -0500, Clare Snyder <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 13:26:58 -0600, Markem <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 12:49:21 -0600, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On 12/22/18 12:38 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 13:11:47 -0500, Clare Snyder <[email protected]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 11:48:54 -0500, Joseph Gwinn
>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Dec 22, 2018, [email protected] wrote
>>>>>> (in article<[email protected]>):
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, 21 Dec 2018 13:56:57 -0500, Clare Snyder<[email protected]>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Fri, 21 Dec 2018 13:31:34 -0500, J. Clarke
>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 21 Dec 2018 13:24:03 -0500, Joseph Gwinn
>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Dec 21, 2018, DerbyDad03 wrote
>>>>>>>>>> (in article<[email protected]>):
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Friday, December 21, 2018 at 11:52:22 AM UTC-5, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Dec 21, 2018, DerbyDad03 wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>> (in article<[email protected]>):
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Keeping this relevant to the wRec, the following video shows us how to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> replace
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the power cord on a circular saw.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you start at 4:30, you will see a technique for creating a "ring
>>>>>>>>>>>>> connector"
>>>>>>>>>>>>> from the bare power cord wires. What do think of this technique?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61e5xG4kqXE>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have some issues with some of the other things he says and does in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> video, but this question is mainly about the connection method he uses.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The proper method is to crimp a ring crimp terminal onto the wires, if
>>>>>>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>>>>>> is space -- which looks questionable in this case.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The "eylet" procedure he uses is not uncommon - but to do it ptoperly
>>>>>>>> he should solder the loop
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *NOT* a good idea. Soldering the loop will put all the bending and
>>>>>>> vibration stress at the point where the solder ends. The wire will
>>>>>>> work-harden at that point.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Only if one has not secured the cable at the entry point, as discussed
>>>>>> upthread.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have been doing this for decades, and have never had this problem.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If the assembly was going to undergo military-level vibration testing, then
>>>>>> no soldering - must be crimped.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Joe Gwinn
>>>>> As in aviation repairs - where "soldered connections MUST be
>>>>> supported" - which is generally interpreted as "crimp only"
>>>>
>>>> There's another issue with solder on connections that carry
>>>> significant power--heat it up and solder melts. I ran into this with
>>>> the ground cable on a Volvo once. Took me the longest time to figure
>>>> it out--when the weather was warm the car would start fine, when it
>>>> was cold it wouldn't, but when I checked things the battery and cables
>>>> were fine. Wasn't until I noticed something smoking one day that I
>>>> figured out that it was the soldered-on ground clamp that most of the
>>>> solder had run out of so there wasn't much contact but enough that a
>>>> meter showed low resistance. Had a connector one crimped on and the
>>>> problem went away.
>>>>
>>>> Admittedly this is less likely to be an issue with a saw but it's
>>>> still worth bearing in mind. There's a reason NEC requires pressure
>>>> connectors and not solder.
>>>>
>>>
>>>What the heck kind of solder did you use?
>>>Isn't the melting point of common solder up near 350 degrees?
>>
>>Most wire solder for electronics around 700 F iron is used, solder
>>paste 185 C and 170 C ( for two sided boards that are soldered ).
>>Plumbing solder not sure.
>
>Except in the case of surface mount components solder should NEVER be
>the primary connection. All soldered joints should be "mechanically
>secure" before soldering. In other words, crimp AND solder, or twist
>AND solder. On battery cables you crimp to make the electrical and
>mechanical connection, then you solder to seal and protect the joint.
>(gas tight joint - which is also the aim of a properly crimped (or
>"crimp-welded" electrical connector.
> Even then, if the soldered cable end came loose, you had other
>problems - like a loose or corroded bolt-on connection that caused the
>connection to heat up. A properly connected and soldered cable end
>does NOT heat up enouigh to melt the solder.

The problem with that statement is "properly connected and soldered".
If it's "properly connected" it doesn't need solder and if it's
soldered you can't tell if it's being held together by the "proper
connection" or by the solder. In any case, it was a Volvo cable that
came on the car, the car was bought new, so if you have a problem with
its manufacture don't point fingers at _me_, point them at Volvo.

Note, Swedes must have mad driving skills--I've had two Volvos and
they were both horrible winter cars. Got stuck at the drop of a hat,
didn't like to start, the heater froze on one (not the coolant in the
heater core, the _fan_ managed to get full of ice, freeze, and burn
out the motor).

JG

Joseph Gwinn

in reply to DerbyDad03 on 21/12/2018 8:04 AM

21/12/2018 4:48 PM

On Dec 21, 2018, J. Clarke wrote
(in article<[email protected]>):

> On Fri, 21 Dec 2018 13:24:03 -0500, Joseph Gwinn
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > On Dec 21, 2018, DerbyDad03 wrote
> > (in article<[email protected]>):
> >
> > > On Friday, December 21, 2018 at 11:52:22 AM UTC-5, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
> > > > On Dec 21, 2018, DerbyDad03 wrote
> > > > (in article<[email protected]>):
> > > >
> > > > > Keeping this relevant to the wRec, the following video shows us how to
> > > > > replace
> > > > > the power cord on a circular saw.
> > > > >
> > > > > If you start at 4:30, you will see a technique for creating a "ring
> > > > > connector"
> > > > > from the bare power cord wires. What do think of this technique?
> > > > >
> > > > > <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D61e5xG4kqXE>
> > > > >
> > > > > I have some issues with some of the other things he says and does in t
e
> > > > > video, but this question is mainly about the connection method he uses

> > > >
> > > > The proper method is to crimp a ring crimp terminal onto the wires, if
> > > > there is space -- which looks questionable in this case.
> > > >
> > > > In the old days, manufacturers crimped a hollow brass eyelet around the
> > > > stranded wire, creating a solid metal ring, but I have not seen that in
> > > > ages,
> > > > and it wasn=B4t something that one could afford to do at home anyway.
> > > >
> > > > Failing that, I twist the copper strands into a solid bundle and tin the
> > > > bundle with liquid rosin flux and radio solder, making a solid wire. Thi

> > > > is bent around the terminal screw in the direction of tightening, and th

> > > > screw is tightened. The wrap direction is critical to ensure that the wi
e does
> > > > not squeeze out from under the terminal screw.
> > > >
> > > > One could also form an eyelet as shown in the video, and then tinned the
> > > > copper wire to solidify the ring.
> > > >
> > > > The key is to ensure that the terminal screw cannot cut the wire while
> > > > being tightened.
> > > >
> > > > .
> > > > I would not have drilled the plastic to get to the torx screws in the
> > > > plastic handle. One can get torx screwdriver inserts with 6" shafts.
> > > >
> > > > I could not see how the cable was clamped on entry to the saw handle, bu

> > > > this area is critical.
> > > >
> > > > Joe Gwinn
> > >
> > > BTW...I also don't like the fact that he used a 3 prong plug and cut the
> > > ground wire off on the inside, saying that using the 3 prong plug "doesn't
> > > hurt".
> > >
> > > I don't like doing that more on principle than on any actual "danger". I
> > > don=B4t like giving the user the impression that a device is wired in a ce
tain
> > > manner (e.g. equipment ground is present) when in reality it is wired diff
rently.
> >
> > I agree. I would have connected the green to the motor frame somehow. But
> > double-insulated does work anyway, so the safety is not reduced.
> >
> > My lathe cane with floating green, and that lathe would give a tickle due to
> > leakage from motor windings to motor frame, and thus to lathe cabinet. The
> > short-term fix was a green ground wire (with ring terminals at both ends)
> > from cabinet to electrical safety ground. Wen I rewired the lathe, I
> > discovered the floating green, and fixed the problem.
> >
> > But I will say that the guy in the video probably is not an electrical guy,
> > and so would not know what to do with that wire if he could not find a green
> > terminal for it.
> >
> > > I don't think that that tool would be approved by OSHA for use on a job
> > > site if they knew that the ground wire was not being used.
> >
> > Well, actually it would have been approved when it came out, and also today.
> > Double-insulated is still OK by UL.
>
> The thing I wonder about is how it got the three-wire cord to begin
> with. I suspect that the cord that was on it was not the original.

The fellow making the repair had made that repair some years earlier.

Joe Gwinn

JG

Joseph Gwinn

in reply to DerbyDad03 on 21/12/2018 8:04 AM

22/12/2018 11:48 AM

On Dec 22, 2018, [email protected] wrote
(in article<[email protected]>):

> On Fri, 21 Dec 2018 13:56:57 -0500, Clare Snyder<[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 21 Dec 2018 13:31:34 -0500, J. Clarke
> > <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > > On Fri, 21 Dec 2018 13:24:03 -0500, Joseph Gwinn
> > > <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Dec 21, 2018, DerbyDad03 wrote
> > > > (in article<[email protected]>):
> > > >
> > > > > On Friday, December 21, 2018 at 11:52:22 AM UTC-5, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
> > > > > > On Dec 21, 2018, DerbyDad03 wrote
> > > > > > (in article<[email protected]>):
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Keeping this relevant to the wRec, the following video shows us how to
> > > > > > > replace
> > > > > > > the power cord on a circular saw.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > If you start at 4:30, you will see a technique for creating a "ring
> > > > > > > connector"
> > > > > > > from the bare power cord wires. What do think of this technique?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61e5xG4kqXE>
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I have some issues with some of the other things he says and does in
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > video, but this question is mainly about the connection method he uses.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The proper method is to crimp a ring crimp terminal onto the wires, if
> > > > > > there
> > > > > > is space -- which looks questionable in this case.
> >
> > The "eylet" procedure he uses is not uncommon - but to do it ptoperly
> > he should solder the loop
>
> *NOT* a good idea. Soldering the loop will put all the bending and
> vibration stress at the point where the solder ends. The wire will
> work-harden at that point.

Only if one has not secured the cable at the entry point, as discussed
upthread.

I have been doing this for decades, and have never had this problem.

If the assembly was going to undergo military-level vibration testing, then
no soldering - must be crimped.

Joe Gwinn

JC

J. Clarke

in reply to Joseph Gwinn on 22/12/2018 11:48 AM

23/12/2018 2:15 AM

On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 23:44:40 -0500, Clare Snyder <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 21:50:11 -0500, J. Clarke
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 20:45:33 -0500, Clare Snyder <[email protected]>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 16:30:47 -0500, J. Clarke
>>><[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Except in the case of surface mount components solder should NEVER be
>>>>>the primary connection. All soldered joints should be "mechanically
>>>>>secure" before soldering. In other words, crimp AND solder, or twist
>>>>>AND solder. On battery cables you crimp to make the electrical and
>>>>>mechanical connection, then you solder to seal and protect the joint.
>>>>>(gas tight joint - which is also the aim of a properly crimped (or
>>>>>"crimp-welded" electrical connector.
>>>>> Even then, if the soldered cable end came loose, you had other
>>>>>problems - like a loose or corroded bolt-on connection that caused the
>>>>>connection to heat up. A properly connected and soldered cable end
>>>>>does NOT heat up enouigh to melt the solder.
>>>>
>>>>The problem with that statement is "properly connected and soldered".
>>>>If it's "properly connected" it doesn't need solder and if it's
>>>>soldered you can't tell if it's being held together by the "proper
>>>>connection" or by the solder. In any case, it was a Volvo cable that
>>>>came on the car, the car was bought new, so if you have a problem with
>>>>its manufacture don't point fingers at _me_, point them at Volvo.
>>>
>>> Never seen a soldered battery cable from the factory on ANY Volvo.
>>>540, 122, 240 or P1800 series
>>>>
>>>>Note, Swedes must have mad driving skills--I've had two Volvos and
>>>>they were both horrible winter cars. Got stuck at the drop of a hat,
>>>>didn't like to start, the heater froze on one (not the coolant in the
>>>>heater core, the _fan_ managed to get full of ice, freeze, and burn
>>>>out the motor).
>>>
>>>Where are you driving?? The Volvo was no worse than - and in many
>>>cases much better than - any other compact or midsized rear wheel
>>>drive vehicle in the winter handling department
>>
>>Ohio, Connecticut, points in between. And I did not have near as much
>>trouble in the winter with a Lincoln Town Car, Toyota Supra, or
>>Corvette as I did with the Volvos. None of those struggled to get up
>>the hill on the way to work and all of them started first time every
>>time. Hell, there were days when I rode my motorcycle to work because
>>the Volvo wouldn't move (not wouldn't start, wouldn't _move_--there
>>was a half an inch of ice on the parking lot and it couldn't manage to
>>climb up on top of it).
> A continental is a TANK,

Except that it wasn't a Continental.

> not a compact or mid-size - and your supra
>(talking second or third gen) outweighed the Volvo significantly and
>most likely also had limited slip.

Care to show me the weight figures, oh mighty Toyota and Volvo expert?

>What tires did yhou have on the
>Volvo?

The ones that came on it. Just like the Corvette and the Supra and
the Lincoln all had the tires that came on them.

>and what model Volvo?..

You should have asked that before spouting off schmott guy. But I'll
give you a hint--bother were heavier than the Supra and weighed about
the same as the Corvette.

As for limited slip, Volvos are supposed to be good in snow, if they
need limited slip why don't they have it? And the Lincoln did not
have it.

>If you drove a motorcycle when you
>couldn't move with a Volvo you've got ROCKS in your head - and below
>your belt.

Yep, it took big ones. But once it was out of the parking lot and
onto the plowed and salted road it was fine.

JG

Joseph Gwinn

in reply to DerbyDad03 on 21/12/2018 8:04 AM

22/12/2018 12:04 PM

On Dec 21, 2018, DerbyDad03 wrote
(in article<[email protected]>):

> On Friday, December 21, 2018 at 1:24:11 PM UTC-5, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
> > On Dec 21, 2018, DerbyDad03 wrote
> > (in article<[email protected]>):
> >
> > > On Friday, December 21, 2018 at 11:52:22 AM UTC-5, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
> > > > On Dec 21, 2018, DerbyDad03 wrote
> > > > (in article<[email protected]>):
> > > >
> > > > > Keeping this relevant to the wRec, the following video shows us how to
> > > > > replace
> > > > > the power cord on a circular saw.
> > > > >
> > > > > If you start at 4:30, you will see a technique for creating a "ring
> > > > > connector"
> > > > > from the bare power cord wires. What do think of this technique?
> > > > >
> > > > > <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D61e5xG4kqXE>
> > > > >
> > > > > I have some issues with some of the other things he says and does in t
e
> > > > > video, but this question is mainly about the connection method he uses

> > > >
> > > > The proper method is to crimp a ring crimp terminal onto the wires, if
> > > > there
> > > > is space -- which looks questionable in this case.
> > > >
> > > > In the old days, manufacturers crimped a hollow brass eyelet around the
> > > > stranded wire, creating a solid metal ring, but I have not seen that in
> > > > ages,
> > > > and it wasn=B4t something that one could afford to do at home anyway.
> > > >
> > > > Failing that, I twist the copper strands into a solid bundle and tin the
> > > > bundle with liquid rosin flux and radio solder, making a solid wire. Thi

> > > > is
> > > > bent around the terminal screw in the direction of tightening, and the
> > > > screw
> > > > is tightened. The wrap direction is critical to ensure that the wire doe

> > > > not
> > > > squeeze out from under the terminal screw.
> > > >
> > > > One could also form an eyelet as shown in the video, and then tinned the
> > > > copper wire to solidify the ring.
> > > >
> > > > The key is to ensure that thge terminal screw cannot cut the wire while
> > > > being
> > > > tightened.
> > > >
> > > > .
> > > > I would not have drilled the plastic to get to the torx screws in the
> > > > plastic
> > > > handle. One can get torx screwdriver inserts with 6" shafts.
> > > >
> > > > I could not see how the cable was clamped on entry to the saw handle, bu

> > > > this area is critical.
> > > >
> > > > Joe Gwinn
> > >
> > > BTW...I also don't like the fact that he used a 3 prong plug and cut the
> > > ground wire off on the inside, saying that using the 3 prong plug "doesn't
> > > hurt".
> > >
> > > I don't like doing that more on principle than on any actual "danger". I
> > > don't
> > > like giving the user the impression that a device is wired in a certain
> > > manner
> > > (e.g. equipment ground is present) when in reality it is wired differently

> >
> > I agree. I would have connected the green to the motor frame somehow. But
> > double-insulated does work anyway, so the safety is not reduced.
> >
> > My lathe cane with floating green, and that lathe would give a tickle due to
> > leakage from motor windings to motor frame, and thus to lathe cabinet. The
> > short-tern fix was a green ground wite (with ring terminals at both ends)
> > from cabinet to electrical safety ground. Wen I rewired the lathe, I
> > discovered the floating green, and fixed the problem.
> >
> > But I will say that the guy in the video probably is not an electrical guy,
> > and so would not know what to do with that wire if he could not find a green
> > terminal for it.
> >
> > > I don't think that that tool would be approved by OSHA for use on a job
> > > site if they knew that the ground wire was not being used.
> >
> > Well, actually it would have been approved when it came out, and also today.
> > Double-insulated is still OK by UL.
> >
> > Joe Gwinn
>
> Yes, when it came out - double insulated with a 2 prong plug.
>
> Today, modified with a 3 prong plug and unconnected ground? I think not.
>
> I'd wager that if that saw was taken in for repair at an OSHA certified
> repair shop, the shop would open it up and say "We can't put it back together
> unless we replace the cord."
>
> If they wanted to be extra cautious so as not to get on the wrong side of
> OSHA, they'd probably interpret the "approved" sections of this letter
> very strictly:
>
> <https://www.osha.gov/laws-regs/standardinterpretations/2009-03-16-1>
>
> I could be wrong, but I'd wager a beverage or two on it.

I agree with your interpretation ofthe OSHA page above, so I=B4ll not be
betting any precious beverages.

But I=B4d wager that shops that are that too strict on such minor issues lose
business. A few years ago, I overheard a general contractor musing about
which plumber to use for a minor installation, commenting that one plumber
always pulled a permit regardless, and so chose someone else for the job.

Not that changing the cord is such a disaster, but I bet there are
bewildering and expensive stories aplenty.

Taken with the plastic clock story mentioned in the present thread, one
wonders if it=B4s best to do our own repairs.

Joe Gwinn

CS

Clare Snyder

in reply to DerbyDad03 on 21/12/2018 8:04 AM

21/12/2018 1:56 PM

On Fri, 21 Dec 2018 13:31:34 -0500, J. Clarke
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Fri, 21 Dec 2018 13:24:03 -0500, Joseph Gwinn
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>On Dec 21, 2018, DerbyDad03 wrote
>>(in article<[email protected]>):
>>
>>> On Friday, December 21, 2018 at 11:52:22 AM UTC-5, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
>>> > On Dec 21, 2018, DerbyDad03 wrote
>>> > (in article<[email protected]>):
>>> >
>>> > > Keeping this relevant to the wRec, the following video shows us how to
>>> > > replace
>>> > > the power cord on a circular saw.
>>> > >
>>> > > If you start at 4:30, you will see a technique for creating a "ring
>>> > > connector"
>>> > > from the bare power cord wires. What do think of this technique?
>>> > >
>>> > > <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61e5xG4kqXE>
>>> > >
>>> > > I have some issues with some of the other things he says and does in the
>>> > > video, but this question is mainly about the connection method he uses.
>>> >
>>> > The proper method is to crimp a ring crimp terminal onto the wires, if there
>>> > is space -- which looks questionable in this case.

The "eylet" procedure he uses is not uncommon - but to do it ptoperly
he should solder the loop
>>> >
>>> > In the old days, manufacturers crimped a hollow brass eyelet around the
>>> > stranded wire, creating a solid metal ring, but I have not seen that in
>>> > ages,
>>> > and it wasn´t something that one could afford to do at home anyway.
>>> >
>>> > Failing that, I twist the copper strands into a solid bundle and tin the
>>> > bundle with liquid rosin flux and radio solder, making a solid wire. This is
>>> > bent around the terminal screw in the direction of tightening, and the screw
>>> > is tightened. The wrap direction is critical to ensure that the wire does
>>> > not
>>> > squeeze out from under the terminal screw.

The full wire bent around the contact screw can often be too much - a
crimprd ting is best, the "split eye" soldered is next best.
>>> >
>>> > One could also form an eyelet as shown in the video, and then tinned the
>>> > copper wire to solidify the ring.

WHich is what "I" prefer
>>> >
>>> > The key is to ensure that thge terminal screw cannot cut the wire while
>>> > being
>>> > tightened.
>>> >
>>> > .
>>> > I would not have drilled the plastic to get to the torx screws in the
>>> > plastic
>>> > handle. One can get torx screwdriver inserts with 6" shafts.

Correct - a bit of a "bodge"
>>> >
>>> > I could not see how the cable was clamped on entry to the saw handle, but
>>> > this area is critical.
>>> >
Correct. The original likely had an insulated netalclamp around the
cord. Or it was "bonded" into the strain releif (I've done it with
silicone sealer)
>>> > Joe Gwinn
>>>
>>> BTW...I also don't like the fact that he used a 3 prong plug and cut the
>>> ground wire off on the inside, saying that using the 3 prong plug "doesn't
>>> hurt".
>>>
>>> I don't like doing that more on principle than on any actual "danger". I don't
>>> like giving the user the impression that a device is wired in a certain manner
>>> (e.g. equipment ground is present) when in reality it is wired differently.
>>
>>I agree. I would have connected the green to the motor frame somehow. But
>>double-insulated does work anyway, so the safety is not reduced.
>>
>>My lathe cane with floating green, and that lathe would give a tickle due to
>>leakage from motor windings to motor frame, and thus to lathe cabinet. The
>>short-tern fix was a green ground wite (with ring terminals at both ends)
>>from cabinet to electrical safety ground. Wen I rewired the lathe, I
>>discovered the floating green, and fixed the problem.
>>
>>But I will say that the guy in the video probably is not an electrical guy,
>>and so would not know what to do with that wire if he could not find a green
>>terminal for it.
>>
>>> I don't think that that tool would be approved by OSHA for use on a job site
>>> if they knew that the ground wire was not being used.
>>

The green wire isn't an OSHA issue, per se, but that cap plug would
not pass. The saw came with a molded plug and most OSHA inspectors
won't pass a "repaired" cord of any type.

I know they don't like manually installed ends - male or female - on
extention cords. Used to repair damaged cords by making one cord into
2. Now I get those cords for home use because they are not allowed on
a job site. Lots of "good" cords are scrapped every year because they
cannot be "repaired"

Some inspectors may not be as "anal" as the ones around here -- -
>>Well, actually it would have been approved when it came out, and also today.
>>Double-insulated is still OK by UL.
>
>The thing I wonder about is how it got the three-wire cord to begin
>with. I suspect that the cord that was on it was not the original.

JC

J. Clarke

in reply to Clare Snyder on 21/12/2018 1:56 PM

22/12/2018 9:50 PM

On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 20:45:33 -0500, Clare Snyder <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 16:30:47 -0500, J. Clarke
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>>
>>>Except in the case of surface mount components solder should NEVER be
>>>the primary connection. All soldered joints should be "mechanically
>>>secure" before soldering. In other words, crimp AND solder, or twist
>>>AND solder. On battery cables you crimp to make the electrical and
>>>mechanical connection, then you solder to seal and protect the joint.
>>>(gas tight joint - which is also the aim of a properly crimped (or
>>>"crimp-welded" electrical connector.
>>> Even then, if the soldered cable end came loose, you had other
>>>problems - like a loose or corroded bolt-on connection that caused the
>>>connection to heat up. A properly connected and soldered cable end
>>>does NOT heat up enouigh to melt the solder.
>>
>>The problem with that statement is "properly connected and soldered".
>>If it's "properly connected" it doesn't need solder and if it's
>>soldered you can't tell if it's being held together by the "proper
>>connection" or by the solder. In any case, it was a Volvo cable that
>>came on the car, the car was bought new, so if you have a problem with
>>its manufacture don't point fingers at _me_, point them at Volvo.
>
> Never seen a soldered battery cable from the factory on ANY Volvo.
>540, 122, 240 or P1800 series
>>
>>Note, Swedes must have mad driving skills--I've had two Volvos and
>>they were both horrible winter cars. Got stuck at the drop of a hat,
>>didn't like to start, the heater froze on one (not the coolant in the
>>heater core, the _fan_ managed to get full of ice, freeze, and burn
>>out the motor).
>
>Where are you driving?? The Volvo was no worse than - and in many
>cases much better than - any other compact or midsized rear wheel
>drive vehicle in the winter handling department

Ohio, Connecticut, points in between. And I did not have near as much
trouble in the winter with a Lincoln Town Car, Toyota Supra, or
Corvette as I did with the Volvos. None of those struggled to get up
the hill on the way to work and all of them started first time every
time. Hell, there were days when I rode my motorcycle to work because
the Volvo wouldn't move (not wouldn't start, wouldn't _move_--there
was a half an inch of ice on the parking lot and it couldn't manage to
climb up on top of it).

CS

Clare Snyder

in reply to DerbyDad03 on 21/12/2018 8:04 AM

22/12/2018 1:10 PM

On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 12:04:56 -0500, Joseph Gwinn
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Dec 21, 2018, DerbyDad03 wrote
>(in article<[email protected]>):
>
>> On Friday, December 21, 2018 at 1:24:11 PM UTC-5, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
>> > On Dec 21, 2018, DerbyDad03 wrote
>> > (in article<[email protected]>):
>> >
>> > > On Friday, December 21, 2018 at 11:52:22 AM UTC-5, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
>> > > > On Dec 21, 2018, DerbyDad03 wrote
>> > > > (in article<[email protected]>):
>> > > >
>> > > > > Keeping this relevant to the wRec, the following video shows us how to
>> > > > > replace
>> > > > > the power cord on a circular saw.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > If you start at 4:30, you will see a technique for creating a "ring
>> > > > > connector"
>> > > > > from the bare power cord wires. What do think of this technique?
>> > > > >
>> > > > > <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61e5xG4kqXE>
>> > > > >
>> > > > > I have some issues with some of the other things he says and does in t
>e
>> > > > > video, but this question is mainly about the connection method he uses
>
>> > > >
>> > > > The proper method is to crimp a ring crimp terminal onto the wires, if
>> > > > there
>> > > > is space -- which looks questionable in this case.
>> > > >
>> > > > In the old days, manufacturers crimped a hollow brass eyelet around the
>> > > > stranded wire, creating a solid metal ring, but I have not seen that in
>> > > > ages,
>> > > > and it wasn´t something that one could afford to do at home anyway.
>> > > >
>> > > > Failing that, I twist the copper strands into a solid bundle and tin the
>> > > > bundle with liquid rosin flux and radio solder, making a solid wire. Thi
>
>> > > > is
>> > > > bent around the terminal screw in the direction of tightening, and the
>> > > > screw
>> > > > is tightened. The wrap direction is critical to ensure that the wire doe
>
>> > > > not
>> > > > squeeze out from under the terminal screw.
>> > > >
>> > > > One could also form an eyelet as shown in the video, and then tinned the
>> > > > copper wire to solidify the ring.
>> > > >
>> > > > The key is to ensure that thge terminal screw cannot cut the wire while
>> > > > being
>> > > > tightened.
>> > > >
>> > > > .
>> > > > I would not have drilled the plastic to get to the torx screws in the
>> > > > plastic
>> > > > handle. One can get torx screwdriver inserts with 6" shafts.
>> > > >
>> > > > I could not see how the cable was clamped on entry to the saw handle, bu
>
>> > > > this area is critical.
>> > > >
>> > > > Joe Gwinn
>> > >
>> > > BTW...I also don't like the fact that he used a 3 prong plug and cut the
>> > > ground wire off on the inside, saying that using the 3 prong plug "doesn't
>> > > hurt".
>> > >
>> > > I don't like doing that more on principle than on any actual "danger". I
>> > > don't
>> > > like giving the user the impression that a device is wired in a certain
>> > > manner
>> > > (e.g. equipment ground is present) when in reality it is wired differently
>
>> >
>> > I agree. I would have connected the green to the motor frame somehow. But
>> > double-insulated does work anyway, so the safety is not reduced.
>> >
>> > My lathe cane with floating green, and that lathe would give a tickle due to
>> > leakage from motor windings to motor frame, and thus to lathe cabinet. The
>> > short-tern fix was a green ground wite (with ring terminals at both ends)
>> > from cabinet to electrical safety ground. Wen I rewired the lathe, I
>> > discovered the floating green, and fixed the problem.
>> >
>> > But I will say that the guy in the video probably is not an electrical guy,
>> > and so would not know what to do with that wire if he could not find a green
>> > terminal for it.
>> >
>> > > I don't think that that tool would be approved by OSHA for use on a job
>> > > site if they knew that the ground wire was not being used.
>> >
>> > Well, actually it would have been approved when it came out, and also today.
>> > Double-insulated is still OK by UL.
>> >
>> > Joe Gwinn
>>
>> Yes, when it came out - double insulated with a 2 prong plug.
>>
>> Today, modified with a 3 prong plug and unconnected ground? I think not.
>>
>> I'd wager that if that saw was taken in for repair at an OSHA certified
>> repair shop, the shop would open it up and say "We can't put it back together
>> unless we replace the cord."
>>
>> If they wanted to be extra cautious so as not to get on the wrong side of
>> OSHA, they'd probably interpret the "approved" sections of this letter
>> very strictly:
>>
>> <https://www.osha.gov/laws-regs/standardinterpretations/2009-03-16-1>
>>
>> I could be wrong, but I'd wager a beverage or two on it.
>
>I agree with your interpretation ofthe OSHA page above, so I´ll not be
>betting any precious beverages.
>
>But I´d wager that shops that are that too strict on such minor issues lose
>business. A few years ago, I overheard a general contractor musing about
>which plumber to use for a minor installation, commenting that one plumber
>always pulled a permit regardless, and so chose someone else for the job.
>
>Not that changing the cord is such a disaster, but I bet there are
>bewildering and expensive stories aplenty.
>
>Taken with the plastic clock story mentioned in the present thread, one
>wonders if it´s best to do our own repairs.
>
>Joe Gwinn
>
Another component to this discussion is who pays the repair depot to
re-assemble the tool??
Generally the "diagnosis" dissassembly is not charged out.
Our local repair center usually has a pretty good stack of "abandoned"
non-repairable tools. What does the contractor want an unuseable tool
for???

I have had several tools that replacement parts were no longer
available for, which, upon further investigation could be "updated" by
replacing one or two extra parts (of a sub-assembly) so currently
available parts could be used. One required replacement of the entire
plastic handle when the original switch and switch cover were no
longer available (the handle for the tool's replacement fit perfectly)
and another required replacement of the entire"ram" portion of a
SawzAll when the bearing portion was no longer available. Again, the
parts from the tools successor fit perfectly as an assembly (something
like $20 worth of parts instead of $9 - on a $139 tool)

Dt

DerbyDad03

in reply to DerbyDad03 on 21/12/2018 8:04 AM

21/12/2018 9:13 AM

On Friday, December 21, 2018 at 11:52:22 AM UTC-5, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
> On Dec 21, 2018, DerbyDad03 wrote
> (in article<[email protected]>):
>=20
> > Keeping this relevant to the wRec, the following video shows us how to =
replace
> > the power cord on a circular saw.
> >
> > If you start at 4:30, you will see a technique for creating a "ring con=
nector"
> > from the bare power cord wires. What do think of this technique?
> >
> > <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D61e5xG4kqXE>
> >
> > I have some issues with some of the other things he says and does in th=
e
> > video, but this question is mainly about the connection method he uses.
>=20
> The proper method is to crimp a ring crimp terminal onto the wires, if th=
ere=20
> is space -- which looks questionable in this case.
>=20
> In the old days, manufacturers crimped a hollow brass eyelet around the=
=20
> stranded wire, creating a solid metal ring, but I have not seen that in a=
ges,=20
> and it wasn=C2=B4t something that one could afford to do at home anyway.
>=20
> Failing that, I twist the copper strands into a solid bundle and tin the=
=20
> bundle with liquid rosin flux and radio solder, making a solid wire. This=
is=20
> bent around the terminal screw in the direction of tightening, and the sc=
rew=20
> is tightened. The wrap direction is critical to ensure that the wire does=
not=20
> squeeze out from under the terminal screw.
>=20
> One could also form an eyelet as shown in the video, and then tinned the=
=20
> copper wire to solidify the ring.
>=20
> The key is to ensure that thge terminal screw cannot cut the wire while b=
eing=20
> tightened.
>=20
> .
> I would not have drilled the plastic to get to the torx screws in the pla=
stic=20
> handle. One can get torx screwdriver inserts with 6" shafts.
>=20
> I could not see how the cable was clamped on entry to the saw handle, but=
=20
> this area is critical.
>=20
> Joe Gwinn

BTW...I also don't like the fact that he used a 3 prong plug and cut the
ground wire off on the inside, saying that using the 3 prong plug "doesn't=
=20
hurt".

I don't like doing that more on principle than on any actual "danger". I do=
n't
like giving the user the impression that a device is wired in a certain man=
ner=20
(e.g. equipment ground is present) when in reality it is wired differently.

I don't think that that tool would be approved by OSHA for use on a job sit=
e
if they knew that the ground wire was not being used.=20

CS

Clare Snyder

in reply to DerbyDad03 on 21/12/2018 9:13 AM

22/12/2018 2:34 PM

On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 13:26:58 -0600, Markem <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 12:49:21 -0600, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>
>>On 12/22/18 12:38 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>> On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 13:11:47 -0500, Clare Snyder <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 11:48:54 -0500, Joseph Gwinn
>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Dec 22, 2018, [email protected] wrote
>>>>> (in article<[email protected]>):
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, 21 Dec 2018 13:56:57 -0500, Clare Snyder<[email protected]>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, 21 Dec 2018 13:31:34 -0500, J. Clarke
>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Fri, 21 Dec 2018 13:24:03 -0500, Joseph Gwinn
>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Dec 21, 2018, DerbyDad03 wrote
>>>>>>>>> (in article<[email protected]>):
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Friday, December 21, 2018 at 11:52:22 AM UTC-5, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Dec 21, 2018, DerbyDad03 wrote
>>>>>>>>>>> (in article<[email protected]>):
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Keeping this relevant to the wRec, the following video shows us how to
>>>>>>>>>>>> replace
>>>>>>>>>>>> the power cord on a circular saw.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> If you start at 4:30, you will see a technique for creating a "ring
>>>>>>>>>>>> connector"
>>>>>>>>>>>> from the bare power cord wires. What do think of this technique?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61e5xG4kqXE>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I have some issues with some of the other things he says and does in
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> video, but this question is mainly about the connection method he uses.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The proper method is to crimp a ring crimp terminal onto the wires, if
>>>>>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>>>>> is space -- which looks questionable in this case.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The "eylet" procedure he uses is not uncommon - but to do it ptoperly
>>>>>>> he should solder the loop
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *NOT* a good idea. Soldering the loop will put all the bending and
>>>>>> vibration stress at the point where the solder ends. The wire will
>>>>>> work-harden at that point.
>>>>>
>>>>> Only if one has not secured the cable at the entry point, as discussed
>>>>> upthread.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have been doing this for decades, and have never had this problem.
>>>>>
>>>>> If the assembly was going to undergo military-level vibration testing, then
>>>>> no soldering - must be crimped.
>>>>>
>>>>> Joe Gwinn
>>>> As in aviation repairs - where "soldered connections MUST be
>>>> supported" - which is generally interpreted as "crimp only"
>>>
>>> There's another issue with solder on connections that carry
>>> significant power--heat it up and solder melts. I ran into this with
>>> the ground cable on a Volvo once. Took me the longest time to figure
>>> it out--when the weather was warm the car would start fine, when it
>>> was cold it wouldn't, but when I checked things the battery and cables
>>> were fine. Wasn't until I noticed something smoking one day that I
>>> figured out that it was the soldered-on ground clamp that most of the
>>> solder had run out of so there wasn't much contact but enough that a
>>> meter showed low resistance. Had a connector one crimped on and the
>>> problem went away.
>>>
>>> Admittedly this is less likely to be an issue with a saw but it's
>>> still worth bearing in mind. There's a reason NEC requires pressure
>>> connectors and not solder.
>>>
>>
>>What the heck kind of solder did you use?
>>Isn't the melting point of common solder up near 350 degrees?
>
>Most wire solder for electronics around 700 F iron is used, solder
>paste 185 C and 170 C ( for two sided boards that are soldered ).
>Plumbing solder not sure.

Except in the case of surface mount components solder should NEVER be
the primary connection. All soldered joints should be "mechanically
secure" before soldering. In other words, crimp AND solder, or twist
AND solder. On battery cables you crimp to make the electrical and
mechanical connection, then you solder to seal and protect the joint.
(gas tight joint - which is also the aim of a properly crimped (or
"crimp-welded" electrical connector.
Even then, if the soldered cable end came loose, you had other
problems - like a loose or corroded bolt-on connection that caused the
connection to heat up. A properly connected and soldered cable end
does NOT heat up enouigh to melt the solder.

Ll

Leon

in reply to DerbyDad03 on 21/12/2018 9:13 AM

28/12/2018 6:22 PM

On 12/28/2018 7:17 AM, Jack wrote:
> On 12/27/2018 10:55 AM, Leon wrote:
>> On 12/27/2018 8:06 AM, Jack wrote:
>>
>>>>
>>>> "Come on, people, this is a job and we get paid well to do what we do
>>>> and get treated pretty well in the mean time.  Isn't that enough?"
>>>> Yeah, such BS really turns me off.
>>>>
>>> What turns me off is people too freakin' lazy (or dumb, or ignorant)
>>> to trim 6 pages of non-relevant crap to get to their point.
>>>
>>
>> Took me 7 pages to get to your comment.  ;~)
>
> Duh! Fight fire with fire!
>
> I was tempted to simply quote 7 pages and simply add a ++1 or --1 which
> I've seen done numerous times by lazy, inconsiderate morons.
>


;~) I got a kick out of your comment. I just had to say something. LOL.

Ll

Leon

in reply to DerbyDad03 on 21/12/2018 9:13 AM

27/12/2018 9:55 AM

On 12/27/2018 8:06 AM, Jack wrote:

>>
>> "Come on, people, this is a job and we get paid well to do what we do
>> and get treated pretty well in the mean time.  Isn't that enough?"
>> Yeah, such BS really turns me off.
>>
> What turns me off is people too freakin' lazy (or dumb, or ignorant) to
> trim 6 pages of non-relevant crap to get to their point.
>

Took me 7 pages to get to your comment. ;~)

JC

J. Clarke

in reply to DerbyDad03 on 21/12/2018 9:13 AM

22/12/2018 4:26 PM

On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 13:26:58 -0600, Markem <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 12:49:21 -0600, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>
>>On 12/22/18 12:38 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>> On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 13:11:47 -0500, Clare Snyder <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 11:48:54 -0500, Joseph Gwinn
>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Dec 22, 2018, [email protected] wrote
>>>>> (in article<[email protected]>):
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, 21 Dec 2018 13:56:57 -0500, Clare Snyder<[email protected]>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, 21 Dec 2018 13:31:34 -0500, J. Clarke
>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Fri, 21 Dec 2018 13:24:03 -0500, Joseph Gwinn
>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Dec 21, 2018, DerbyDad03 wrote
>>>>>>>>> (in article<[email protected]>):
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Friday, December 21, 2018 at 11:52:22 AM UTC-5, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Dec 21, 2018, DerbyDad03 wrote
>>>>>>>>>>> (in article<[email protected]>):
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Keeping this relevant to the wRec, the following video shows us how to
>>>>>>>>>>>> replace
>>>>>>>>>>>> the power cord on a circular saw.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> If you start at 4:30, you will see a technique for creating a "ring
>>>>>>>>>>>> connector"
>>>>>>>>>>>> from the bare power cord wires. What do think of this technique?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61e5xG4kqXE>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I have some issues with some of the other things he says and does in
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> video, but this question is mainly about the connection method he uses.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The proper method is to crimp a ring crimp terminal onto the wires, if
>>>>>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>>>>> is space -- which looks questionable in this case.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The "eylet" procedure he uses is not uncommon - but to do it ptoperly
>>>>>>> he should solder the loop
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *NOT* a good idea. Soldering the loop will put all the bending and
>>>>>> vibration stress at the point where the solder ends. The wire will
>>>>>> work-harden at that point.
>>>>>
>>>>> Only if one has not secured the cable at the entry point, as discussed
>>>>> upthread.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have been doing this for decades, and have never had this problem.
>>>>>
>>>>> If the assembly was going to undergo military-level vibration testing, then
>>>>> no soldering - must be crimped.
>>>>>
>>>>> Joe Gwinn
>>>> As in aviation repairs - where "soldered connections MUST be
>>>> supported" - which is generally interpreted as "crimp only"
>>>
>>> There's another issue with solder on connections that carry
>>> significant power--heat it up and solder melts. I ran into this with
>>> the ground cable on a Volvo once. Took me the longest time to figure
>>> it out--when the weather was warm the car would start fine, when it
>>> was cold it wouldn't, but when I checked things the battery and cables
>>> were fine. Wasn't until I noticed something smoking one day that I
>>> figured out that it was the soldered-on ground clamp that most of the
>>> solder had run out of so there wasn't much contact but enough that a
>>> meter showed low resistance. Had a connector one crimped on and the
>>> problem went away.
>>>
>>> Admittedly this is less likely to be an issue with a saw but it's
>>> still worth bearing in mind. There's a reason NEC requires pressure
>>> connectors and not solder.
>>>
>>
>>What the heck kind of solder did you use?
>>Isn't the melting point of common solder up near 350 degrees?

I have no idea what kind of solder Volvo used.

>Most wire solder for electronics around 700 F iron is used, solder
>paste 185 C and 170 C ( for two sided boards that are soldered ).
>Plumbing solder not sure.

Doesn't matter. A little resistance in the joint and lots of current
will heat it enough to melt solder. Remember, a car battery has
enough juice to weld with.

Mm

-MIKE-

in reply to DerbyDad03 on 21/12/2018 9:13 AM

22/12/2018 2:55 PM

On 12/22/18 1:34 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
> On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 13:26:58 -0600, Markem <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 12:49:21 -0600, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 12/22/18 12:38 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 13:11:47 -0500, Clare Snyder <[email protected]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 11:48:54 -0500, Joseph Gwinn
>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Dec 22, 2018, [email protected] wrote
>>>>>> (in article<[email protected]>):
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, 21 Dec 2018 13:56:57 -0500, Clare Snyder<[email protected]>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Fri, 21 Dec 2018 13:31:34 -0500, J. Clarke
>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 21 Dec 2018 13:24:03 -0500, Joseph Gwinn
>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Dec 21, 2018, DerbyDad03 wrote
>>>>>>>>>> (in article<[email protected]>):
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Friday, December 21, 2018 at 11:52:22 AM UTC-5, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Dec 21, 2018, DerbyDad03 wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>> (in article<[email protected]>):
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Keeping this relevant to the wRec, the following video shows us how to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> replace
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the power cord on a circular saw.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you start at 4:30, you will see a technique for creating a "ring
>>>>>>>>>>>>> connector"
>>>>>>>>>>>>> from the bare power cord wires. What do think of this technique?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61e5xG4kqXE>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have some issues with some of the other things he says and does in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> video, but this question is mainly about the connection method he uses.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The proper method is to crimp a ring crimp terminal onto the wires, if
>>>>>>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>>>>>> is space -- which looks questionable in this case.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The "eylet" procedure he uses is not uncommon - but to do it ptoperly
>>>>>>>> he should solder the loop
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *NOT* a good idea. Soldering the loop will put all the bending and
>>>>>>> vibration stress at the point where the solder ends. The wire will
>>>>>>> work-harden at that point.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Only if one has not secured the cable at the entry point, as discussed
>>>>>> upthread.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have been doing this for decades, and have never had this problem.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If the assembly was going to undergo military-level vibration testing, then
>>>>>> no soldering - must be crimped.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Joe Gwinn
>>>>> As in aviation repairs - where "soldered connections MUST be
>>>>> supported" - which is generally interpreted as "crimp only"
>>>>
>>>> There's another issue with solder on connections that carry
>>>> significant power--heat it up and solder melts. I ran into this with
>>>> the ground cable on a Volvo once. Took me the longest time to figure
>>>> it out--when the weather was warm the car would start fine, when it
>>>> was cold it wouldn't, but when I checked things the battery and cables
>>>> were fine. Wasn't until I noticed something smoking one day that I
>>>> figured out that it was the soldered-on ground clamp that most of the
>>>> solder had run out of so there wasn't much contact but enough that a
>>>> meter showed low resistance. Had a connector one crimped on and the
>>>> problem went away.
>>>>
>>>> Admittedly this is less likely to be an issue with a saw but it's
>>>> still worth bearing in mind. There's a reason NEC requires pressure
>>>> connectors and not solder.
>>>>
>>>
>>> What the heck kind of solder did you use?
>>> Isn't the melting point of common solder up near 350 degrees?
>>
>> Most wire solder for electronics around 700 F iron is used, solder
>> paste 185 C and 170 C ( for two sided boards that are soldered ).
>> Plumbing solder not sure.
>
> Except in the case of surface mount components solder should NEVER be
> the primary connection. All soldered joints should be "mechanically
> secure" before soldering. In other words, crimp AND solder, or twist
> AND solder. On battery cables you crimp to make the electrical and
> mechanical connection, then you solder to seal and protect the joint.
> (gas tight joint - which is also the aim of a properly crimped (or
> "crimp-welded" electrical connector.
> Even then, if the soldered cable end came loose, you had other
> problems - like a loose or corroded bolt-on connection that caused the
> connection to heat up. A properly connected and soldered cable end
> does NOT heat up enouigh to melt the solder.
>

The only thing I was thinking was a loose connection that would cause
arcing.
That could certainly melt... and weld. :-)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

Mm

-MIKE-

in reply to DerbyDad03 on 21/12/2018 9:13 AM

22/12/2018 3:06 PM

On 12/22/18 2:55 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 12/22/18 1:34 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
>> On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 13:26:58 -0600, Markem <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 12:49:21 -0600, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 12/22/18 12:38 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>>> On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 13:11:47 -0500, Clare Snyder <[email protected]>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 11:48:54 -0500, Joseph Gwinn
>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Dec 22, 2018, [email protected] wrote
>>>>>>> (in article<[email protected]>):
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Fri, 21 Dec 2018 13:56:57 -0500, Clare
>>>>>>>> Snyder<[email protected]>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 21 Dec 2018 13:31:34 -0500, J. Clarke
>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]>  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 21 Dec 2018 13:24:03 -0500, Joseph Gwinn
>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]>  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Dec 21, 2018, DerbyDad03 wrote
>>>>>>>>>>> (in
>>>>>>>>>>> article<[email protected]>):
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Friday, December 21, 2018 at 11:52:22 AM UTC-5, Joseph
>>>>>>>>>>>> Gwinn wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Dec 21, 2018, DerbyDad03 wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>>> (in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> article<[email protected]>):
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Keeping this relevant to the wRec, the following video
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shows us how to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> replace
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the power cord on a circular saw.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you start at 4:30, you will see a technique for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> creating a "ring
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> connector"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from the bare power cord wires. What do think of this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> technique?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61e5xG4kqXE>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have some issues with some of the other things he says
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and does in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> video, but this question is mainly about the connection
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> method he uses.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The proper method is to crimp a ring crimp terminal onto
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the wires, if
>>>>>>>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>>>>>>> is space -- which looks questionable in this case.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The "eylet" procedure he uses is not uncommon - but to do it
>>>>>>>>> ptoperly
>>>>>>>>> he should solder the loop
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> *NOT* a good idea. Soldering the loop will put all the bending and
>>>>>>>> vibration stress at the point where the solder ends. The wire will
>>>>>>>> work-harden at that point.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Only if one has not secured the cable at the entry point, as
>>>>>>> discussed
>>>>>>> upthread.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have been doing this for decades, and have never had this problem.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If the assembly was going to undergo military-level vibration
>>>>>>> testing, then
>>>>>>> no soldering - must be crimped.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Joe Gwinn
>>>>>> As in aviation repairs - where "soldered connections MUST be
>>>>>> supported" - which is generally interpreted as "crimp only"
>>>>>
>>>>> There's another issue with solder on connections that carry
>>>>> significant power--heat it up and solder melts.  I ran into this with
>>>>> the ground cable on a Volvo once.  Took me the longest time to figure
>>>>> it out--when the weather was warm the car would start fine, when it
>>>>> was cold it wouldn't, but when I checked things the battery and cables
>>>>> were fine.  Wasn't until I noticed something smoking one day that I
>>>>> figured out that it was the soldered-on ground clamp that most of the
>>>>> solder had run out of so there wasn't much contact but enough that a
>>>>> meter showed low resistance.  Had a connector one crimped on and the
>>>>> problem went away.
>>>>>
>>>>> Admittedly this is less likely to be an issue with a saw but it's
>>>>> still worth bearing in mind.  There's a reason NEC requires pressure
>>>>> connectors and not solder.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> What the heck kind of solder did you use?
>>>> Isn't the melting point of common solder up near 350 degrees?
>>>
>>> Most wire solder for electronics around 700 F iron is used, solder
>>> paste 185 C and 170 C ( for two sided boards that are soldered ).
>>> Plumbing solder not sure.
>> Except in the case of surface mount components solder should NEVER be
>> the primary connection. All soldered joints should be "mechanically
>> secure" before soldering. In other words, crimp AND solder, or twist
>> AND solder. On battery cables you crimp to make the electrical and
>> mechanical connection, then you solder to seal and protect the joint.
>> (gas tight joint - which is also the aim of a properly crimped (or
>> "crimp-welded" electrical connector.
>>   Even then, if the soldered cable end came loose, you had other
>> problems - like a loose or corroded bolt-on connection that caused the
>> connection to heat up. A properly connected and soldered cable end
>> does NOT heat up enouigh to melt the solder.
>>
>
> The only thing I was thinking was a loose connection that would cause
> arcing.
> That could certainly melt... and weld.  :-)
>

https://photos.app.goo.gl/HRzJKWSEHHmgKE3X7


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

Jj

Jack

in reply to DerbyDad03 on 21/12/2018 9:13 AM

27/12/2018 9:06 AM

On 12/23/2018 9:18 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Sun, 23 Dec 2018 16:51:30 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On Sunday, December 23, 2018 at 7:11:04 PM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
>>> On Sun, 23 Dec 2018 07:42:42 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Saturday, December 22, 2018 at 11:12:14 PM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>> On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 08:48:35 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Saturday, December 22, 2018 at 10:38:15 AM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 04:56:43 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Saturday, December 22, 2018 at 12:27:23 AM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 21 Dec 2018 09:13:14 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Friday, December 21, 2018 at 11:52:22 AM UTC-5, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Dec 21, 2018, DerbyDad03 wrote
>>>>>>>>>>> (in article<[email protected]>):
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Keeping this relevant to the wRec, the following video shows us how to replace
>>>>>>>>>>>> the power cord on a circular saw.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> If you start at 4:30, you will see a technique for creating a "ring connector"
>>>>>>>>>>>> from the bare power cord wires. What do think of this technique?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61e5xG4kqXE>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I have some issues with some of the other things he says and does in the
>>>>>>>>>>>> video, but this question is mainly about the connection method he uses.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The proper method is to crimp a ring crimp terminal onto the wires, if there
>>>>>>>>>>> is space -- which looks questionable in this case.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> In the old days, manufacturers crimped a hollow brass eyelet around the
>>>>>>>>>>> stranded wire, creating a solid metal ring, but I have not seen that in ages,
>>>>>>>>>>> and it wasn´t something that one could afford to do at home anyway.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Failing that, I twist the copper strands into a solid bundle and tin the
>>>>>>>>>>> bundle with liquid rosin flux and radio solder, making a solid wire. This is
>>>>>>>>>>> bent around the terminal screw in the direction of tightening, and the screw
>>>>>>>>>>> is tightened. The wrap direction is critical to ensure that the wire does not
>>>>>>>>>>> squeeze out from under the terminal screw.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> One could also form an eyelet as shown in the video, and then tinned the
>>>>>>>>>>> copper wire to solidify the ring.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The key is to ensure that thge terminal screw cannot cut the wire while being
>>>>>>>>>>> tightened.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>>>>> I would not have drilled the plastic to get to the torx screws in the plastic
>>>>>>>>>>> handle. One can get torx screwdriver inserts with 6" shafts.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I could not see how the cable was clamped on entry to the saw handle, but
>>>>>>>>>>> this area is critical.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Joe Gwinn
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> BTW...I also don't like the fact that he used a 3 prong plug and cut the
>>>>>>>>>> ground wire off on the inside, saying that using the 3 prong plug "doesn't
>>>>>>>>>> hurt".
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I don't like doing that more on principle than on any actual "danger". I don't
>>>>>>>>>> like giving the user the impression that a device is wired in a certain manner
>>>>>>>>>> (e.g. equipment ground is present) when in reality it is wired differently.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> +1
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I don't think that that tool would be approved by OSHA for use on a job site
>>>>>>>>>> if they knew that the ground wire was not being used.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Years back, one of our techs was required by industrial safety to add
>>>>>>>>> a 3-prong cordset to a plastic wall clock. I asked what he did with
>>>>>>>>> the green wire. "Connected it to the case, of course." The inspector
>>>>>>>>> was happy.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That's what happens when they hire safety personnel with no actual safety knowledge just so
>>>>>>>> that they can check the "Hired Safety Personnel" box.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Or when people are told to follow the rules, rather than understand
>>>>>>> the rules. BTW, this was in IBM.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I used to work at a huge manufacturing/chemical plant. "Safety First" posters
>>>>>> everywhere. Every department had a designated safety officer(s). Cash awards
>>>>>> were given if a someone pointed out a safety issue.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As an IT tech I used to go everywhere within the plant. I won numerous
>>>>>> cash awards for pointing out safety issues but only after I had to convince
>>>>>> the safety officer of that department that it was an issue. Sometimes I
>>>>>> had to escalate the issue because the safety officer just didn't get the
>>>>>> point. The lack of common sense was really scary.
>>>>>
>>>>> That's another good one. They wouldn't pay engineers for safety, or
>>>>> other suggestions but they would pay hourly staff. I'd just point out
>>>>> problems to my technician and he'd collect the easy money. Often it
>>>>> was stupid things like a sign blocking an Exit sign, and such. The
>>>>> safety people would get pissed-off because they were supposed to catch
>>>>> such things.
>>>>
>>>> This suggestion wasn't specifically a safety issue, but I got paid on it
>>>> through the corporate Suggestion System that paid for suggestions that resulted
>>>> in a money saving process change.
>>>
>>> Same deal for "improvement" suggestions. Engineers needed not apply,
>>> so I just gave the ideas to my technician(s). I wasn't going to get
>>> paid for them so why not reward the guys doing my work for me. ;-)
>>>
>>>> My company was already in trouble for possible ground contamination in the
>>>> surrounding neighborhood - including the ground under the grade school
>>>> that was named for the company. One morning I was walking from the parking
>>>> to the security gate, a walk that took me down a public street along the
>>>> plant's fence. As I looked through the fence and down a road between 2
>>>> buildings, I saw foam bubbling up out of a sewer, breaking up into pieces
>>>> 2-3 feet across and blowing down the road. Some of the bubble masses were
>>>> settling right up against the fence. Definitely not a good look for a company
>>>> already in trouble with the EPA.
>>>
>>> Ouch! That's a real bad look, even if it was Lucy's washing machine.
>>> We had loads of groundwater pollution (no matter what people thought,
>>> electronics is a very dirty business), cost millions, but I never got
>>> involved in that stuff.
>>>>
>>>> I had a friend who was in management for that part of the plant so I called
>>>> him and asked him how I should report it. He told me that he would contact
>>>> the proper department. He then called me a few days later and told me to
>>>> put in a suggestion saying that the ABC department should be using anti-foaming
>>>> agent in the XYZ discharge system. He told me to route the suggestion through
>>>> his department. When I wrote up the suggestion, I added a few words about the
>>>> "bad look, especially at this time". About a month later I got a check for $3K.
>>>> That would be about $6.5K in today's dollars.
>>>>
>>>> Apparently that "bad look" was worth preventing.
>>>
>>> Very cool! I'd think so! I remember one suggestion (*not* mine) that
>>> was turned down at least three times before paying out almost $100K
>>> (in the '70s). Turns out the person who reviewed suggestions was the
>>> person who was responsible for that particular area. He didn't want
>>> to admit that he'd missed that sort of savings. These programs are
>>> good ideas but it has to be run right or they turn into jokes.
>>
>> The worst one I got hit with was a suggestion that was probably worth a $50K
>> award (mid-80's) To keep it simple, let's call it a software modification.
>>
>> It would have saved an awful lot of money over time but the department said
>> that they couldn't afford the cost of the upgrade. (short term thinking, which
>> is what eventually put the company essentially out of business. Hint: Perhaps
>> you remember a time before we all took pictures with cell phones?) Anyway,
>> they thanked me for the suggestion but said they were not going to implement
>> it.
>>
>> 3 years later that same department did a major upgrade and when it was done
>> it looked exactly like what I had suggested. I contacted the suggestion
>> department and they said that they would re-open the suggestion and send it
>> back to the department to see if it warranted payment. The answer was "Yes,
>> we did basically implement what he suggested, but it wasn't done because of
>> his suggestion. An engineer within the department came up with the idea on
>> his own, as part of job his responsibilities.
>>
>> So, I, an IT hardware technician who didn't even work for the department (they
>> were one of my "internal customers") made a suggestion 3 years before one of
>> their internal engineers (supposedly) came up with the same idea. At that time
>> they had the money, so they implemented his *free* suggestion, not mine.
>>
>> I was not a happy camper for quite a while.
>
> Yep, like many such programs, if they're not going to be faithful to
> the intent of the program the incentive is often the opposite of what
> is desired. That's why I don't bother with any of the morale
> enhancement programs, wherever I've worked. They always end up doing
> the opposite, eventually.
>
> The HR department where I work now manages to do it right (wrong) out
> of the chute. They have a "high-five" award, where you can give a
> co-worker an award for helping you, or whatever. Build points and
> exchange them for trinkets. I looked - nothing I want for anything
> like what could be reasonably put together in a few years.
>
> Then they screwed the pooch further by making it mandatory or *you*
> get dinged on your performance.
>
> They're also trying to motivate us to exercise, so give above points
> for exercise, except that you have to link your smart watch (or
> whatever) to their site. No thanks. They want groups to get together
> to do a million steps. Hell, I do a million a month, myself, but I'm
> not about to give them access to that information. I have had a bunch
> of people ask me to join their groups, though. ;-)
>
> Then there is the "How are we feeling today <, children>?", weekly
> morale survey.
>
> "Come on, people, this is a job and we get paid well to do what we do
> and get treated pretty well in the mean time. Isn't that enough?"
> Yeah, such BS really turns me off.
>
What turns me off is people too freakin' lazy (or dumb, or ignorant) to
trim 6 pages of non-relevant crap to get to their point.

--
Jack
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.
http://jbstein.com

Jj

Jack

in reply to DerbyDad03 on 21/12/2018 9:13 AM

28/12/2018 8:17 AM

On 12/27/2018 10:55 AM, Leon wrote:
> On 12/27/2018 8:06 AM, Jack wrote:
>
>>>
>>> "Come on, people, this is a job and we get paid well to do what we do
>>> and get treated pretty well in the mean time. Isn't that enough?"
>>> Yeah, such BS really turns me off.
>>>
>> What turns me off is people too freakin' lazy (or dumb, or ignorant)
>> to trim 6 pages of non-relevant crap to get to their point.
>>
>
> Took me 7 pages to get to your comment. ;~)

Duh! Fight fire with fire!

I was tempted to simply quote 7 pages and simply add a ++1 or --1 which
I've seen done numerous times by lazy, inconsiderate morons.

--
Jack
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.
http://jbstein.com

k

in reply to DerbyDad03 on 21/12/2018 9:13 AM

23/12/2018 9:18 PM

On Sun, 23 Dec 2018 16:51:30 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Sunday, December 23, 2018 at 7:11:04 PM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Sun, 23 Dec 2018 07:42:42 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >On Saturday, December 22, 2018 at 11:12:14 PM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
>> >> On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 08:48:35 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
>> >> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >On Saturday, December 22, 2018 at 10:38:15 AM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
>> >> >> On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 04:56:43 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
>> >> >> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >On Saturday, December 22, 2018 at 12:27:23 AM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
>> >> >> >> On Fri, 21 Dec 2018 09:13:14 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
>> >> >> >> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >On Friday, December 21, 2018 at 11:52:22 AM UTC-5, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
>> >> >> >> >> On Dec 21, 2018, DerbyDad03 wrote
>> >> >> >> >> (in article<[email protected]>):
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> > Keeping this relevant to the wRec, the following video shows us how to replace
>> >> >> >> >> > the power cord on a circular saw.
>> >> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> > If you start at 4:30, you will see a technique for creating a "ring connector"
>> >> >> >> >> > from the bare power cord wires. What do think of this technique?
>> >> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> > <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61e5xG4kqXE>
>> >> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> > I have some issues with some of the other things he says and does in the
>> >> >> >> >> > video, but this question is mainly about the connection method he uses.
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> The proper method is to crimp a ring crimp terminal onto the wires, if there
>> >> >> >> >> is space -- which looks questionable in this case.
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> In the old days, manufacturers crimped a hollow brass eyelet around the
>> >> >> >> >> stranded wire, creating a solid metal ring, but I have not seen that in ages,
>> >> >> >> >> and it wasn´t something that one could afford to do at home anyway.
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> Failing that, I twist the copper strands into a solid bundle and tin the
>> >> >> >> >> bundle with liquid rosin flux and radio solder, making a solid wire. This is
>> >> >> >> >> bent around the terminal screw in the direction of tightening, and the screw
>> >> >> >> >> is tightened. The wrap direction is critical to ensure that the wire does not
>> >> >> >> >> squeeze out from under the terminal screw.
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> One could also form an eyelet as shown in the video, and then tinned the
>> >> >> >> >> copper wire to solidify the ring.
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> The key is to ensure that thge terminal screw cannot cut the wire while being
>> >> >> >> >> tightened.
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> .
>> >> >> >> >> I would not have drilled the plastic to get to the torx screws in the plastic
>> >> >> >> >> handle. One can get torx screwdriver inserts with 6" shafts.
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> I could not see how the cable was clamped on entry to the saw handle, but
>> >> >> >> >> this area is critical.
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> Joe Gwinn
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >BTW...I also don't like the fact that he used a 3 prong plug and cut the
>> >> >> >> >ground wire off on the inside, saying that using the 3 prong plug "doesn't
>> >> >> >> >hurt".
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >I don't like doing that more on principle than on any actual "danger". I don't
>> >> >> >> >like giving the user the impression that a device is wired in a certain manner
>> >> >> >> >(e.g. equipment ground is present) when in reality it is wired differently.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> +1
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >I don't think that that tool would be approved by OSHA for use on a job site
>> >> >> >> >if they knew that the ground wire was not being used.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Years back, one of our techs was required by industrial safety to add
>> >> >> >> a 3-prong cordset to a plastic wall clock. I asked what he did with
>> >> >> >> the green wire. "Connected it to the case, of course." The inspector
>> >> >> >> was happy.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >That's what happens when they hire safety personnel with no actual safety knowledge just so
>> >> >> >that they can check the "Hired Safety Personnel" box.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Or when people are told to follow the rules, rather than understand
>> >> >> the rules. BTW, this was in IBM.
>> >> >
>> >> >I used to work at a huge manufacturing/chemical plant. "Safety First" posters
>> >> >everywhere. Every department had a designated safety officer(s). Cash awards
>> >> >were given if a someone pointed out a safety issue.
>> >> >
>> >> >As an IT tech I used to go everywhere within the plant. I won numerous
>> >> >cash awards for pointing out safety issues but only after I had to convince
>> >> >the safety officer of that department that it was an issue. Sometimes I
>> >> >had to escalate the issue because the safety officer just didn't get the
>> >> >point. The lack of common sense was really scary.
>> >>
>> >> That's another good one. They wouldn't pay engineers for safety, or
>> >> other suggestions but they would pay hourly staff. I'd just point out
>> >> problems to my technician and he'd collect the easy money. Often it
>> >> was stupid things like a sign blocking an Exit sign, and such. The
>> >> safety people would get pissed-off because they were supposed to catch
>> >> such things.
>> >
>> >This suggestion wasn't specifically a safety issue, but I got paid on it
>> >through the corporate Suggestion System that paid for suggestions that resulted
>> >in a money saving process change.
>>
>> Same deal for "improvement" suggestions. Engineers needed not apply,
>> so I just gave the ideas to my technician(s). I wasn't going to get
>> paid for them so why not reward the guys doing my work for me. ;-)
>>
>> >My company was already in trouble for possible ground contamination in the
>> >surrounding neighborhood - including the ground under the grade school
>> >that was named for the company. One morning I was walking from the parking
>> >to the security gate, a walk that took me down a public street along the
>> >plant's fence. As I looked through the fence and down a road between 2
>> >buildings, I saw foam bubbling up out of a sewer, breaking up into pieces
>> >2-3 feet across and blowing down the road. Some of the bubble masses were
>> >settling right up against the fence. Definitely not a good look for a company
>> >already in trouble with the EPA.
>>
>> Ouch! That's a real bad look, even if it was Lucy's washing machine.
>> We had loads of groundwater pollution (no matter what people thought,
>> electronics is a very dirty business), cost millions, but I never got
>> involved in that stuff.
>> >
>> >I had a friend who was in management for that part of the plant so I called
>> >him and asked him how I should report it. He told me that he would contact
>> >the proper department. He then called me a few days later and told me to
>> >put in a suggestion saying that the ABC department should be using anti-foaming
>> >agent in the XYZ discharge system. He told me to route the suggestion through
>> >his department. When I wrote up the suggestion, I added a few words about the
>> >"bad look, especially at this time". About a month later I got a check for $3K.
>> >That would be about $6.5K in today's dollars.
>> >
>> >Apparently that "bad look" was worth preventing.
>>
>> Very cool! I'd think so! I remember one suggestion (*not* mine) that
>> was turned down at least three times before paying out almost $100K
>> (in the '70s). Turns out the person who reviewed suggestions was the
>> person who was responsible for that particular area. He didn't want
>> to admit that he'd missed that sort of savings. These programs are
>> good ideas but it has to be run right or they turn into jokes.
>
>The worst one I got hit with was a suggestion that was probably worth a $50K
>award (mid-80's) To keep it simple, let's call it a software modification.
>
>It would have saved an awful lot of money over time but the department said
>that they couldn't afford the cost of the upgrade. (short term thinking, which
>is what eventually put the company essentially out of business. Hint: Perhaps
>you remember a time before we all took pictures with cell phones?) Anyway,
>they thanked me for the suggestion but said they were not going to implement
>it.
>
>3 years later that same department did a major upgrade and when it was done
>it looked exactly like what I had suggested. I contacted the suggestion
>department and they said that they would re-open the suggestion and send it
>back to the department to see if it warranted payment. The answer was "Yes,
>we did basically implement what he suggested, but it wasn't done because of
>his suggestion. An engineer within the department came up with the idea on
>his own, as part of job his responsibilities.
>
>So, I, an IT hardware technician who didn't even work for the department (they
>were one of my "internal customers") made a suggestion 3 years before one of
>their internal engineers (supposedly) came up with the same idea. At that time
>they had the money, so they implemented his *free* suggestion, not mine.
>
>I was not a happy camper for quite a while.

Yep, like many such programs, if they're not going to be faithful to
the intent of the program the incentive is often the opposite of what
is desired. That's why I don't bother with any of the morale
enhancement programs, wherever I've worked. They always end up doing
the opposite, eventually.

The HR department where I work now manages to do it right (wrong) out
of the chute. They have a "high-five" award, where you can give a
co-worker an award for helping you, or whatever. Build points and
exchange them for trinkets. I looked - nothing I want for anything
like what could be reasonably put together in a few years.

Then they screwed the pooch further by making it mandatory or *you*
get dinged on your performance.

They're also trying to motivate us to exercise, so give above points
for exercise, except that you have to link your smart watch (or
whatever) to their site. No thanks. They want groups to get together
to do a million steps. Hell, I do a million a month, myself, but I'm
not about to give them access to that information. I have had a bunch
of people ask me to join their groups, though. ;-)

Then there is the "How are we feeling today <, children>?", weekly
morale survey.

"Come on, people, this is a job and we get paid well to do what we do
and get treated pretty well in the mean time. Isn't that enough?"
Yeah, such BS really turns me off.

Dt

DerbyDad03

in reply to DerbyDad03 on 21/12/2018 8:04 AM

23/12/2018 4:51 PM

On Sunday, December 23, 2018 at 7:11:04 PM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
> On Sun, 23 Dec 2018 07:42:42 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>=20
> >On Saturday, December 22, 2018 at 11:12:14 PM UTC-5, [email protected] wr=
ote:
> >> On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 08:48:35 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
> >> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>=20
> >> >On Saturday, December 22, 2018 at 10:38:15 AM UTC-5, [email protected]=
wrote:
> >> >> On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 04:56:43 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
> >> >> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> >>=20
> >> >> >On Saturday, December 22, 2018 at 12:27:23 AM UTC-5, k...@notreal.=
com wrote:
> >> >> >> On Fri, 21 Dec 2018 09:13:14 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
> >> >> >> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> >> >>=20
> >> >> >> >On Friday, December 21, 2018 at 11:52:22 AM UTC-5, Joseph Gwinn=
wrote:
> >> >> >> >> On Dec 21, 2018, DerbyDad03 wrote
> >> >> >> >> (in article<7ba0e0e8-e217-4dbf-bf5a-391edf340595@googlegroups=
.com>):
> >> >> >> >>=20
> >> >> >> >> > Keeping this relevant to the wRec, the following video show=
s us how to replace
> >> >> >> >> > the power cord on a circular saw.
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> > If you start at 4:30, you will see a technique for creating=
a "ring connector"
> >> >> >> >> > from the bare power cord wires. What do think of this techn=
ique?
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> > <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D61e5xG4kqXE>
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> > I have some issues with some of the other things he says an=
d does in the
> >> >> >> >> > video, but this question is mainly about the connection met=
hod he uses.
> >> >> >> >>=20
> >> >> >> >> The proper method is to crimp a ring crimp terminal onto the =
wires, if there=20
> >> >> >> >> is space -- which looks questionable in this case.
> >> >> >> >>=20
> >> >> >> >> In the old days, manufacturers crimped a hollow brass eyelet =
around the=20
> >> >> >> >> stranded wire, creating a solid metal ring, but I have not se=
en that in ages,=20
> >> >> >> >> and it wasn=C2=B4t something that one could afford to do at h=
ome anyway.
> >> >> >> >>=20
> >> >> >> >> Failing that, I twist the copper strands into a solid bundle =
and tin the=20
> >> >> >> >> bundle with liquid rosin flux and radio solder, making a soli=
d wire. This is=20
> >> >> >> >> bent around the terminal screw in the direction of tightening=
, and the screw=20
> >> >> >> >> is tightened. The wrap direction is critical to ensure that t=
he wire does not=20
> >> >> >> >> squeeze out from under the terminal screw.
> >> >> >> >>=20
> >> >> >> >> One could also form an eyelet as shown in the video, and then=
tinned the=20
> >> >> >> >> copper wire to solidify the ring.
> >> >> >> >>=20
> >> >> >> >> The key is to ensure that thge terminal screw cannot cut the =
wire while being=20
> >> >> >> >> tightened.
> >> >> >> >>=20
> >> >> >> >> .
> >> >> >> >> I would not have drilled the plastic to get to the torx screw=
s in the plastic=20
> >> >> >> >> handle. One can get torx screwdriver inserts with 6" shafts.
> >> >> >> >>=20
> >> >> >> >> I could not see how the cable was clamped on entry to the saw=
handle, but=20
> >> >> >> >> this area is critical.
> >> >> >> >>=20
> >> >> >> >> Joe Gwinn
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >BTW...I also don't like the fact that he used a 3 prong plug an=
d cut the
> >> >> >> >ground wire off on the inside, saying that using the 3 prong pl=
ug "doesn't=20
> >> >> >> >hurt".
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >I don't like doing that more on principle than on any actual "d=
anger". I don't
> >> >> >> >like giving the user the impression that a device is wired in a=
certain manner=20
> >> >> >> >(e.g. equipment ground is present) when in reality it is wired =
differently.
> >> >> >>=20
> >> >> >> +1
> >> >> >>=20
> >> >> >> >I don't think that that tool would be approved by OSHA for use =
on a job site
> >> >> >> >if they knew that the ground wire was not being used.=20
> >> >> >>=20
> >> >> >> Years back, one of our techs was required by industrial safety t=
o add
> >> >> >> a 3-prong cordset to a plastic wall clock. I asked what he did =
with
> >> >> >> the green wire. "Connected it to the case, of course." The ins=
pector
> >> >> >> was happy.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >That's what happens when they hire safety personnel with no actual=
safety knowledge just so=20
> >> >> >that they can check the "Hired Safety Personnel" box.
> >> >>=20
> >> >> Or when people are told to follow the rules, rather than understand
> >> >> the rules. BTW, this was in IBM.
> >> >
> >> >I used to work at a huge manufacturing/chemical plant. "Safety First"=
posters
> >> >everywhere. Every department had a designated safety officer(s). Cash=
awards
> >> >were given if a someone pointed out a safety issue.
> >> >
> >> >As an IT tech I used to go everywhere within the plant. I won numerou=
s
> >> >cash awards for pointing out safety issues but only after I had to co=
nvince
> >> >the safety officer of that department that it was an issue. Sometimes=
I=20
> >> >had to escalate the issue because the safety officer just didn't get =
the=20
> >> >point. The lack of common sense was really scary.
> >>=20
> >> That's another good one. They wouldn't pay engineers for safety, or
> >> other suggestions but they would pay hourly staff. I'd just point out
> >> problems to my technician and he'd collect the easy money. Often it
> >> was stupid things like a sign blocking an Exit sign, and such. The
> >> safety people would get pissed-off because they were supposed to catch
> >> such things.
> >
> >This suggestion wasn't specifically a safety issue, but I got paid on it=
=20
> >through the corporate Suggestion System that paid for suggestions that r=
esulted
> >in a money saving process change.
>=20
> Same deal for "improvement" suggestions. Engineers needed not apply,
> so I just gave the ideas to my technician(s). I wasn't going to get
> paid for them so why not reward the guys doing my work for me. ;-)
>=20
> >My company was already in trouble for possible ground contamination in t=
he=20
> >surrounding neighborhood - including the ground under the grade school
> >that was named for the company. One morning I was walking from the parki=
ng
> >to the security gate, a walk that took me down a public street along the
> >plant's fence. As I looked through the fence and down a road between 2=
=20
> >buildings, I saw foam bubbling up out of a sewer, breaking up into piece=
s=20
> >2-3 feet across and blowing down the road. Some of the bubble masses wer=
e=20
> >settling right up against the fence. Definitely not a good look for a co=
mpany=20
> >already in trouble with the EPA.
>=20
> Ouch! That's a real bad look, even if it was Lucy's washing machine.
> We had loads of groundwater pollution (no matter what people thought,
> electronics is a very dirty business), cost millions, but I never got
> involved in that stuff. =20
> >
> >I had a friend who was in management for that part of the plant so I cal=
led
> >him and asked him how I should report it. He told me that he would conta=
ct
> >the proper department. He then called me a few days later and told me to=
=20
> >put in a suggestion saying that the ABC department should be using anti-=
foaming
> >agent in the XYZ discharge system. He told me to route the suggestion th=
rough
> >his department. When I wrote up the suggestion, I added a few words abou=
t the=20
> >"bad look, especially at this time". About a month later I got a check f=
or $3K.
> >That would be about $6.5K in today's dollars.
> >
> >Apparently that "bad look" was worth preventing.=20
>=20
> Very cool! I'd think so! I remember one suggestion (*not* mine) that
> was turned down at least three times before paying out almost $100K
> (in the '70s). Turns out the person who reviewed suggestions was the
> person who was responsible for that particular area. He didn't want
> to admit that he'd missed that sort of savings. These programs are
> good ideas but it has to be run right or they turn into jokes.

The worst one I got hit with was a suggestion that was probably worth a $50=
K=20
award (mid-80's) To keep it simple, let's call it a software modification.

It would have saved an awful lot of money over time but the department said=
=20
that they couldn't afford the cost of the upgrade. (short term thinking, wh=
ich=20
is what eventually put the company essentially out of business. Hint: Perha=
ps=20
you remember a time before we all took pictures with cell phones?) Anyway,=
=20
they thanked me for the suggestion but said they were not going to implemen=
t=20
it.=20

3 years later that same department did a major upgrade and when it was done=
=20
it looked exactly like what I had suggested. I contacted the suggestion=20
department and they said that they would re-open the suggestion and send it=
=20
back to the department to see if it warranted payment. The answer was "Yes,=
=20
we did basically implement what he suggested, but it wasn't done because of=
=20
his suggestion. An engineer within the department came up with the idea on=
=20
his own, as part of job his responsibilities.

So, I, an IT hardware technician who didn't even work for the department (t=
hey
were one of my "internal customers") made a suggestion 3 years before one o=
f
their internal engineers (supposedly) came up with the same idea. At that t=
ime
they had the money, so they implemented his *free* suggestion, not mine. =
=20

I was not a happy camper for quite a while.

Dt

DerbyDad03

in reply to DerbyDad03 on 21/12/2018 8:04 AM

21/12/2018 6:24 PM

On Friday, December 21, 2018 at 1:24:11 PM UTC-5, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
> On Dec 21, 2018, DerbyDad03 wrote
> (in article<[email protected]>):
>=20
> > On Friday, December 21, 2018 at 11:52:22 AM UTC-5, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
> > > On Dec 21, 2018, DerbyDad03 wrote
> > > (in article<[email protected]>):
> > >
> > > > Keeping this relevant to the wRec, the following video shows us how=
to
> > > > replace
> > > > the power cord on a circular saw.
> > > >
> > > > If you start at 4:30, you will see a technique for creating a "ring
> > > > connector"
> > > > from the bare power cord wires. What do think of this technique?
> > > >
> > > > <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D61e5xG4kqXE>
> > > >
> > > > I have some issues with some of the other things he says and does i=
n the
> > > > video, but this question is mainly about the connection method he u=
ses.
> > >
> > > The proper method is to crimp a ring crimp terminal onto the wires, i=
f there
> > > is space -- which looks questionable in this case.
> > >
> > > In the old days, manufacturers crimped a hollow brass eyelet around t=
he
> > > stranded wire, creating a solid metal ring, but I have not seen that =
in
> > > ages,
> > > and it wasn=C2=B4t something that one could afford to do at home anyw=
ay.
> > >
> > > Failing that, I twist the copper strands into a solid bundle and tin =
the
> > > bundle with liquid rosin flux and radio solder, making a solid wire. =
This is
> > > bent around the terminal screw in the direction of tightening, and th=
e screw
> > > is tightened. The wrap direction is critical to ensure that the wire =
does
> > > not
> > > squeeze out from under the terminal screw.
> > >
> > > One could also form an eyelet as shown in the video, and then tinned =
the
> > > copper wire to solidify the ring.
> > >
> > > The key is to ensure that thge terminal screw cannot cut the wire whi=
le
> > > being
> > > tightened.
> > >
> > > .
> > > I would not have drilled the plastic to get to the torx screws in the
> > > plastic
> > > handle. One can get torx screwdriver inserts with 6" shafts.
> > >
> > > I could not see how the cable was clamped on entry to the saw handle,=
but
> > > this area is critical.
> > >
> > > Joe Gwinn
> >
> > BTW...I also don't like the fact that he used a 3 prong plug and cut th=
e
> > ground wire off on the inside, saying that using the 3 prong plug "does=
n't
> > hurt".
> >
> > I don't like doing that more on principle than on any actual "danger". =
I don't
> > like giving the user the impression that a device is wired in a certain=
manner
> > (e.g. equipment ground is present) when in reality it is wired differen=
tly.
>=20
> I agree. I would have connected the green to the motor frame somehow. But=
=20
> double-insulated does work anyway, so the safety is not reduced.
>=20
> My lathe cane with floating green, and that lathe would give a tickle due=
to=20
> leakage from motor windings to motor frame, and thus to lathe cabinet. Th=
e=20
> short-tern fix was a green ground wite (with ring terminals at both ends)=
=20
> from cabinet to electrical safety ground. Wen I rewired the lathe, I=20
> discovered the floating green, and fixed the problem.
>=20
> But I will say that the guy in the video probably is not an electrical gu=
y,=20
> and so would not know what to do with that wire if he could not find a gr=
een=20
> terminal for it.
>=20
> > I don't think that that tool would be approved by OSHA for use on a job=
site
> > if they knew that the ground wire was not being used.
>=20
> Well, actually it would have been approved when it came out, and also tod=
ay.=20
> Double-insulated is still OK by UL.
>=20
> Joe Gwinn

Yes, when it came out - double insulted with a 2 prong plug.

Today, modified with a 3 prong plug and unconnected ground? I think not.

I'd wager that if that saw was taken in for repair at an OSHA certified=20
repair shop, the shop would open it up and say "We can't put it back togeth=
er=20
unless we replace the cord."

If they wanted to be extra cautious so as not to get on the wrong side of
OSHA, they'd probably interpret the "approved" sections of this letter=20
very strictly:

https://www.osha.gov/laws-regs/standardinterpretations/2009-03-16-1

I could be wrong, but I'd wager a beverage or two on it.

Dt

DerbyDad03

in reply to DerbyDad03 on 21/12/2018 8:04 AM

21/12/2018 6:46 PM

On Friday, December 21, 2018 at 1:31:36 PM UTC-5, J. Clarke wrote:
> On Fri, 21 Dec 2018 13:24:03 -0500, Joseph Gwinn
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>=20
> >On Dec 21, 2018, DerbyDad03 wrote
> >(in article<[email protected]>):
> >
> >> On Friday, December 21, 2018 at 11:52:22 AM UTC-5, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
> >> > On Dec 21, 2018, DerbyDad03 wrote
> >> > (in article<[email protected]>):
> >> >
> >> > > Keeping this relevant to the wRec, the following video shows us ho=
w to
> >> > > replace
> >> > > the power cord on a circular saw.
> >> > >
> >> > > If you start at 4:30, you will see a technique for creating a "rin=
g
> >> > > connector"
> >> > > from the bare power cord wires. What do think of this technique?
> >> > >
> >> > > <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D61e5xG4kqXE>
> >> > >
> >> > > I have some issues with some of the other things he says and does =
in the
> >> > > video, but this question is mainly about the connection method he =
uses.
> >> >
> >> > The proper method is to crimp a ring crimp terminal onto the wires, =
if there
> >> > is space -- which looks questionable in this case.
> >> >
> >> > In the old days, manufacturers crimped a hollow brass eyelet around =
the
> >> > stranded wire, creating a solid metal ring, but I have not seen that=
in
> >> > ages,
> >> > and it wasn=C2=B4t something that one could afford to do at home any=
way.
> >> >
> >> > Failing that, I twist the copper strands into a solid bundle and tin=
the
> >> > bundle with liquid rosin flux and radio solder, making a solid wire.=
This is
> >> > bent around the terminal screw in the direction of tightening, and t=
he screw
> >> > is tightened. The wrap direction is critical to ensure that the wire=
does
> >> > not
> >> > squeeze out from under the terminal screw.
> >> >
> >> > One could also form an eyelet as shown in the video, and then tinned=
the
> >> > copper wire to solidify the ring.
> >> >
> >> > The key is to ensure that thge terminal screw cannot cut the wire wh=
ile
> >> > being
> >> > tightened.
> >> >
> >> > .
> >> > I would not have drilled the plastic to get to the torx screws in th=
e
> >> > plastic
> >> > handle. One can get torx screwdriver inserts with 6" shafts.
> >> >
> >> > I could not see how the cable was clamped on entry to the saw handle=
, but
> >> > this area is critical.
> >> >
> >> > Joe Gwinn
> >>
> >> BTW...I also don't like the fact that he used a 3 prong plug and cut t=
he
> >> ground wire off on the inside, saying that using the 3 prong plug "doe=
sn't
> >> hurt".
> >>
> >> I don't like doing that more on principle than on any actual "danger".=
I don't
> >> like giving the user the impression that a device is wired in a certai=
n manner
> >> (e.g. equipment ground is present) when in reality it is wired differe=
ntly.
> >
> >I agree. I would have connected the green to the motor frame somehow. Bu=
t=20
> >double-insulated does work anyway, so the safety is not reduced.
> >
> >My lathe cane with floating green, and that lathe would give a tickle du=
e to=20
> >leakage from motor windings to motor frame, and thus to lathe cabinet. T=
he=20
> >short-tern fix was a green ground wite (with ring terminals at both ends=
)=20
> >from cabinet to electrical safety ground. Wen I rewired the lathe, I=20
> >discovered the floating green, and fixed the problem.
> >
> >But I will say that the guy in the video probably is not an electrical g=
uy,=20
> >and so would not know what to do with that wire if he could not find a g=
reen=20
> >terminal for it.
> >
> >> I don't think that that tool would be approved by OSHA for use on a jo=
b site
> >> if they knew that the ground wire was not being used.
> >
> >Well, actually it would have been approved when it came out, and also to=
day.=20
> >Double-insulated is still OK by UL.
>=20
> The thing I wonder about is how it got the three-wire cord to begin
> with. I suspect that the cord that was on it was not the original.

The thing I wonder about is why you are wondering about the three-wire
cord.

The cord that was on it (before the repair began) was only a 2 wire, and
therefore probably the original. He did say that he has shortened it, but
not that he had replaced it. (At about 2:50)

Now, jump ahead to about 8:00 when he tries to put the handle back on. He=
=20
notes that the new cord is thicker. That's the first (possible) sign that
the previous cord was only 2 wire and therefore probably the original. But=
=20
wait until about 9:45 when he swaps the plug onto the new cord. He compares
the insulation to the original stating "I didn't strip off very much insula=
tion." You can see that the previous cord is only 2 wire.

So, to recap, the cord that was on there was 2 wire, probably the original.=
=20
He had at one time shortened that cord due to breaks in the insulation *and=
*
he (or someone) had replaced the original 2 prong plug with the 3 prong. Th=
e=20
three wire cord only entered the picture when this repair began.

I hope that helps with your wondering. ;-)

Dt

DerbyDad03

in reply to DerbyDad03 on 21/12/2018 8:04 AM

22/12/2018 4:56 AM

On Saturday, December 22, 2018 at 12:27:23 AM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote=
:
> On Fri, 21 Dec 2018 09:13:14 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>=20
> >On Friday, December 21, 2018 at 11:52:22 AM UTC-5, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
> >> On Dec 21, 2018, DerbyDad03 wrote
> >> (in article<[email protected]>):
> >>=20
> >> > Keeping this relevant to the wRec, the following video shows us how =
to replace
> >> > the power cord on a circular saw.
> >> >
> >> > If you start at 4:30, you will see a technique for creating a "ring =
connector"
> >> > from the bare power cord wires. What do think of this technique?
> >> >
> >> > <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D61e5xG4kqXE>
> >> >
> >> > I have some issues with some of the other things he says and does in=
the
> >> > video, but this question is mainly about the connection method he us=
es.
> >>=20
> >> The proper method is to crimp a ring crimp terminal onto the wires, if=
there=20
> >> is space -- which looks questionable in this case.
> >>=20
> >> In the old days, manufacturers crimped a hollow brass eyelet around th=
e=20
> >> stranded wire, creating a solid metal ring, but I have not seen that i=
n ages,=20
> >> and it wasn=C2=B4t something that one could afford to do at home anywa=
y.
> >>=20
> >> Failing that, I twist the copper strands into a solid bundle and tin t=
he=20
> >> bundle with liquid rosin flux and radio solder, making a solid wire. T=
his is=20
> >> bent around the terminal screw in the direction of tightening, and the=
screw=20
> >> is tightened. The wrap direction is critical to ensure that the wire d=
oes not=20
> >> squeeze out from under the terminal screw.
> >>=20
> >> One could also form an eyelet as shown in the video, and then tinned t=
he=20
> >> copper wire to solidify the ring.
> >>=20
> >> The key is to ensure that thge terminal screw cannot cut the wire whil=
e being=20
> >> tightened.
> >>=20
> >> .
> >> I would not have drilled the plastic to get to the torx screws in the =
plastic=20
> >> handle. One can get torx screwdriver inserts with 6" shafts.
> >>=20
> >> I could not see how the cable was clamped on entry to the saw handle, =
but=20
> >> this area is critical.
> >>=20
> >> Joe Gwinn
> >
> >BTW...I also don't like the fact that he used a 3 prong plug and cut the
> >ground wire off on the inside, saying that using the 3 prong plug "doesn=
't=20
> >hurt".
> >
> >I don't like doing that more on principle than on any actual "danger". I=
don't
> >like giving the user the impression that a device is wired in a certain =
manner=20
> >(e.g. equipment ground is present) when in reality it is wired different=
ly.
>=20
> +1
>=20
> >I don't think that that tool would be approved by OSHA for use on a job =
site
> >if they knew that the ground wire was not being used.=20
>=20
> Years back, one of our techs was required by industrial safety to add
> a 3-prong cordset to a plastic wall clock. I asked what he did with
> the green wire. "Connected it to the case, of course." The inspector
> was happy.

That's what happens when they hire safety personnel with no actual safety k=
nowledge just so=20
that they can check the "Hired Safety Personnel" box.

k

in reply to DerbyDad03 on 22/12/2018 4:56 AM

27/12/2018 8:43 PM

On Thu, 27 Dec 2018 11:10:12 -0500, J. Clarke
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Thu, 27 Dec 2018 09:06:18 -0500, Jack <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>On 12/23/2018 9:18 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>> On Sun, 23 Dec 2018 16:51:30 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
>>>
>>> Yep, like many such programs, if they're not going to be faithful to
>>> the intent of the program the incentive is often the opposite of what
>>> is desired. That's why I don't bother with any of the morale
>>> enhancement programs, wherever I've worked. They always end up doing
>>> the opposite, eventually.
>>>
>>> The HR department where I work now manages to do it right (wrong) out
>>> of the chute. They have a "high-five" award, where you can give a
>>> co-worker an award for helping you, or whatever. Build points and
>>> exchange them for trinkets. I looked - nothing I want for anything
>>> like what could be reasonably put together in a few years.
>>>
>>> Then they screwed the pooch further by making it mandatory or *you*
>>> get dinged on your performance.
>>>
>>> They're also trying to motivate us to exercise, so give above points
>>> for exercise, except that you have to link your smart watch (or
>>> whatever) to their site. No thanks. They want groups to get together
>>> to do a million steps. Hell, I do a million a month, myself, but I'm
>>> not about to give them access to that information. I have had a bunch
>>> of people ask me to join their groups, though. ;-)
>>>
>>> Then there is the "How are we feeling today <, children>?", weekly
>>> morale survey.
>>>
>>> "Come on, people, this is a job and we get paid well to do what we do
>>> and get treated pretty well in the mean time. Isn't that enough?"
>>> Yeah, such BS really turns me off.
>
>FWIW, the place I work pays cash money for achieving fitness goals.
>5000 steps a day, certified by a fitness tracker, for x number of
>weeks (I forget how many) and they pay you 100 bucks. Get a
>physical exam they pay the full price, no deductible, and give you a
>hundred bucks. There are other incentives up to a total of 500 bucks a
>year.

Those are somewhat reasonable bribes but I doubt I'd agree to it.
Maybe I'd carry two trackers. ;-)

Mm

Markem

in reply to DerbyDad03 on 22/12/2018 4:56 AM

27/12/2018 1:30 PM

On Thu, 27 Dec 2018 11:06:38 -0500, [email protected] wrote:

>What pisses me off a whiney asshole Usenet trolls.

CS

Clare Snyder

in reply to DerbyDad03 on 21/12/2018 8:04 AM

22/12/2018 1:11 PM

On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 11:48:54 -0500, Joseph Gwinn
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Dec 22, 2018, [email protected] wrote
>(in article<[email protected]>):
>
>> On Fri, 21 Dec 2018 13:56:57 -0500, Clare Snyder<[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > On Fri, 21 Dec 2018 13:31:34 -0500, J. Clarke
>> > <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >
>> > > On Fri, 21 Dec 2018 13:24:03 -0500, Joseph Gwinn
>> > > <[email protected]> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > On Dec 21, 2018, DerbyDad03 wrote
>> > > > (in article<[email protected]>):
>> > > >
>> > > > > On Friday, December 21, 2018 at 11:52:22 AM UTC-5, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
>> > > > > > On Dec 21, 2018, DerbyDad03 wrote
>> > > > > > (in article<[email protected]>):
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > > Keeping this relevant to the wRec, the following video shows us how to
>> > > > > > > replace
>> > > > > > > the power cord on a circular saw.
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > If you start at 4:30, you will see a technique for creating a "ring
>> > > > > > > connector"
>> > > > > > > from the bare power cord wires. What do think of this technique?
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61e5xG4kqXE>
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > I have some issues with some of the other things he says and does in
>> > > > > > > the
>> > > > > > > video, but this question is mainly about the connection method he uses.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > The proper method is to crimp a ring crimp terminal onto the wires, if
>> > > > > > there
>> > > > > > is space -- which looks questionable in this case.
>> >
>> > The "eylet" procedure he uses is not uncommon - but to do it ptoperly
>> > he should solder the loop
>>
>> *NOT* a good idea. Soldering the loop will put all the bending and
>> vibration stress at the point where the solder ends. The wire will
>> work-harden at that point.
>
>Only if one has not secured the cable at the entry point, as discussed
>upthread.
>
>I have been doing this for decades, and have never had this problem.
>
>If the assembly was going to undergo military-level vibration testing, then
>no soldering - must be crimped.
>
>Joe Gwinn
As in aviation repairs - where "soldered connections MUST be
supported" - which is generally interpreted as "crimp only"

CS

Clare Snyder

in reply to Clare Snyder on 22/12/2018 1:11 PM

23/12/2018 4:43 PM

On Sun, 23 Dec 2018 02:15:34 -0500, J. Clarke
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 23:44:40 -0500, Clare Snyder <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 21:50:11 -0500, J. Clarke
>><[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 20:45:33 -0500, Clare Snyder <[email protected]>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 16:30:47 -0500, J. Clarke
>>>><[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Except in the case of surface mount components solder should NEVER be
>>>>>>the primary connection. All soldered joints should be "mechanically
>>>>>>secure" before soldering. In other words, crimp AND solder, or twist
>>>>>>AND solder. On battery cables you crimp to make the electrical and
>>>>>>mechanical connection, then you solder to seal and protect the joint.
>>>>>>(gas tight joint - which is also the aim of a properly crimped (or
>>>>>>"crimp-welded" electrical connector.
>>>>>> Even then, if the soldered cable end came loose, you had other
>>>>>>problems - like a loose or corroded bolt-on connection that caused the
>>>>>>connection to heat up. A properly connected and soldered cable end
>>>>>>does NOT heat up enouigh to melt the solder.
>>>>>
>>>>>The problem with that statement is "properly connected and soldered".
>>>>>If it's "properly connected" it doesn't need solder and if it's
>>>>>soldered you can't tell if it's being held together by the "proper
>>>>>connection" or by the solder. In any case, it was a Volvo cable that
>>>>>came on the car, the car was bought new, so if you have a problem with
>>>>>its manufacture don't point fingers at _me_, point them at Volvo.
>>>>
>>>> Never seen a soldered battery cable from the factory on ANY Volvo.
>>>>540, 122, 240 or P1800 series
>>>>>
>>>>>Note, Swedes must have mad driving skills--I've had two Volvos and
>>>>>they were both horrible winter cars. Got stuck at the drop of a hat,
>>>>>didn't like to start, the heater froze on one (not the coolant in the
>>>>>heater core, the _fan_ managed to get full of ice, freeze, and burn
>>>>>out the motor).
>>>>
>>>>Where are you driving?? The Volvo was no worse than - and in many
>>>>cases much better than - any other compact or midsized rear wheel
>>>>drive vehicle in the winter handling department
>>>
>>>Ohio, Connecticut, points in between. And I did not have near as much
>>>trouble in the winter with a Lincoln Town Car, Toyota Supra, or
>>>Corvette as I did with the Volvos. None of those struggled to get up
>>>the hill on the way to work and all of them started first time every
>>>time. Hell, there were days when I rode my motorcycle to work because
>>>the Volvo wouldn't move (not wouldn't start, wouldn't _move_--there
>>>was a half an inch of ice on the parking lot and it couldn't manage to
>>>climb up on top of it).
>> A continental is a TANK,
>
>Except that it wasn't a Continental.

OK - so ANY Lincoln was a tank.
>
>> not a compact or mid-size - and your supra
>>(talking second or third gen) outweighed the Volvo significantly and
>>most likely also had limited slip.
>
>Care to show me the weight figures, oh mighty Toyota and Volvo expert?

Well , a 164 outweighed a Supra G2 (about 3000) by about 300 lbs.
A 142 was about 300 lbs lighter than the G2 Supra.
The G3 Supras were pigs, outweighing the 164 by a good 300 at about
3800
The G4 was about 300 less than the G3

If the Townn Car wasn't a Conti, it had to be newer than 1981.
!981-89 weighed about 4000-4200 lbs. (About 400 lbs heavier than the
heaviest Supra, and 1400 lbs heavier than the 1st gen Supra at 2800)
The 1998 Corvette was only about 100 lbs LIGHTER than a G3 Supra at
about 3250 -roughly half a ton lighter than the Towne Car
The G4 was about 300 less than the G3

When you get up into the 2000s, and the Volvo S60 etc you are into
FWD and AWD - a totally different story - and they are fatter at
about 3500 - 3900 lbs - still lighter than a Lincoln Town Car and
about on par with the Supra G3
>

Go back to a PV544 and they barely tipped the scales at a ton.
The 122 Amazon was about 200 lbs heavier at 2200.
The P1800 wagon was about 300 pounds heavier than the Amazon at about
2500.

Tp put it in perspective, 2 122 Amazons weighed marginally more than a
later model TowneCar.


>>What tires did yhou have on the
>>Volvo?
>
>The ones that came on it. Just like the Corvette and the Supra and
>the Lincoln all had the tires that came on them.
>
>>and what model Volvo?..
>
>You should have asked that before spouting off schmott guy. But I'll
>give you a hint--bother were heavier than the Supra and weighed about
>the same as the Corvette.

Still haven't said what kind of Volvo.
My brother's Volvo outweighed a lincoln too - but it had a 984 cubic
inch D16 under the hood that weighed a ton and a half without
transmission or fluids and put 600 HP to the twin screw rear end..

ANd without a load it was USELESS in snow too - - -
>
>As for limited slip, Volvos are supposed to be good in snow, if they
>need limited slip why don't they have it? And the Lincoln did not
>have it.

NO car is good in snow without snows - and a second gen or newer Supra
in particular. Don't try BSing me. I was Toyota Service Manager - and
the low profile tires they came with were less than useless in snow
(Dunlop performance radials) They were like 4 flying saucers strapped
to the corners of the car. With narrow snow tires they handled and
went pretty good.
The lincoln had enough weight on the rear wheels to make any tire
grip at least a LITTLE bit - - -
WHen I was rallying the Volvo 242 was right up there with the 2002
Bimmers and the 510 Datsuns for 2wd (even winter) rallying. (I
successfully campaigned a Renault R12 Fwd - the lowest powered car on
the circuit at the time) A good set of Haks or Metzlers made them into
pretty darn good "rubber on ice" ice racers too - - -

Corvettes are also extremely poor in snow with the stock "steam
rollers" on them. (and up here they virtually ALL get taken off the
road around Thanksgiving. ANyone with the bucks to drive a vette has
the money, if not the brains, to also have a "winter beater" - often
an Audi Quatro or aAWD BMW (if not a 4WD Sierra or an old H3)
>
>>If you drove a motorcycle when you
>>couldn't move with a Volvo you've got ROCKS in your head - and below
>>your belt.
>
>Yep, it took big ones. But once it was out of the parking lot and
>onto the plowed and salted road it was fine.
>
My bikes were always put away sometime about Thanksgiving and they
stayed away 'till at least Easter.

Ll

Leon

in reply to Clare Snyder on 22/12/2018 1:11 PM

26/12/2018 3:02 PM

On 12/23/2018 3:54 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
> On Sun, 23 Dec 2018 16:43:55 -0500, Clare Snyder <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 23 Dec 2018 02:15:34 -0500, J. Clarke
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 23:44:40 -0500, Clare Snyder <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 21:50:11 -0500, J. Clarke
>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 20:45:33 -0500, Clare Snyder <[email protected]>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 16:30:47 -0500, J. Clarke
>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Except in the case of surface mount components solder should NEVER be
>>>>>>>> the primary connection. All soldered joints should be "mechanically
>>>>>>>> secure" before soldering. In other words, crimp AND solder, or twist
>>>>>>>> AND solder. On battery cables you crimp to make the electrical and
>>>>>>>> mechanical connection, then you solder to seal and protect the joint.
>>>>>>>> (gas tight joint - which is also the aim of a properly crimped (or
>>>>>>>> "crimp-welded" electrical connector.
>>>>>>>> Even then, if the soldered cable end came loose, you had other
>>>>>>>> problems - like a loose or corroded bolt-on connection that caused the
>>>>>>>> connection to heat up. A properly connected and soldered cable end
>>>>>>>> does NOT heat up enouigh to melt the solder.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The problem with that statement is "properly connected and soldered".
>>>>>>> If it's "properly connected" it doesn't need solder and if it's
>>>>>>> soldered you can't tell if it's being held together by the "proper
>>>>>>> connection" or by the solder. In any case, it was a Volvo cable that
>>>>>>> came on the car, the car was bought new, so if you have a problem with
>>>>>>> its manufacture don't point fingers at _me_, point them at Volvo.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Never seen a soldered battery cable from the factory on ANY Volvo.
>>>>>> 540, 122, 240 or P1800 series
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Note, Swedes must have mad driving skills--I've had two Volvos and
>>>>>>> they were both horrible winter cars. Got stuck at the drop of a hat,
>>>>>>> didn't like to start, the heater froze on one (not the coolant in the
>>>>>>> heater core, the _fan_ managed to get full of ice, freeze, and burn
>>>>>>> out the motor).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Where are you driving?? The Volvo was no worse than - and in many
>>>>>> cases much better than - any other compact or midsized rear wheel
>>>>>> drive vehicle in the winter handling department
>>>>>
>>>>> Ohio, Connecticut, points in between. And I did not have near as much
>>>>> trouble in the winter with a Lincoln Town Car, Toyota Supra, or
>>>>> Corvette as I did with the Volvos. None of those struggled to get up
>>>>> the hill on the way to work and all of them started first time every
>>>>> time. Hell, there were days when I rode my motorcycle to work because
>>>>> the Volvo wouldn't move (not wouldn't start, wouldn't _move_--there
>>>>> was a half an inch of ice on the parking lot and it couldn't manage to
>>>>> climb up on top of it).
>>>> A continental is a TANK,
>>>
>>> Except that it wasn't a Continental.
>>
>> OK - so ANY Lincoln was a tank.
>>>
>>>> not a compact or mid-size - and your supra
>>>> (talking second or third gen) outweighed the Volvo significantly and
>>>> most likely also had limited slip.
>>>
>>> Care to show me the weight figures, oh mighty Toyota and Volvo expert?
>>
>> Well , a 164 outweighed a Supra G2 (about 3000) by about 300 lbs.
>> A 142 was about 300 lbs lighter than the G2 Supra.
>> The G3 Supras were pigs, outweighing the 164 by a good 300 at about
>> 3800
>> The G4 was about 300 less than the G3
>>
>> If the Townn Car wasn't a Conti, it had to be newer than 1981.
>> !981-89 weighed about 4000-4200 lbs. (About 400 lbs heavier than the
>> heaviest Supra, and 1400 lbs heavier than the 1st gen Supra at 2800)
>> The 1998 Corvette was only about 100 lbs LIGHTER than a G3 Supra at
>> about 3250 -roughly half a ton lighter than the Towne Car
>> The G4 was about 300 less than the G3
>>
>> When you get up into the 2000s, and the Volvo S60 etc you are into
>> FWD and AWD - a totally different story - and they are fatter at
>> about 3500 - 3900 lbs - still lighter than a Lincoln Town Car and
>> about on par with the Supra G3
>>>
>>
>> Go back to a PV544 and they barely tipped the scales at a ton.
>> The 122 Amazon was about 200 lbs heavier at 2200.
>> The P1800 wagon was about 300 pounds heavier than the Amazon at about
>> 2500.
>>
>> Tp put it in perspective, 2 122 Amazons weighed marginally more than a
>> later model TowneCar.
>>
>>
>>>> What tires did yhou have on the
>>>> Volvo?
>>>
>>> The ones that came on it. Just like the Corvette and the Supra and
>>> the Lincoln all had the tires that came on them.
>>>
>>>> and what model Volvo?..
>>>
>>> You should have asked that before spouting off schmott guy. But I'll
>>> give you a hint--bother were heavier than the Supra and weighed about
>>> the same as the Corvette.
>>
>> Still haven't said what kind of Volvo.
>
> And I'm not going to since you're making an ass of yourself.
>
>> My brother's Volvo outweighed a lincoln too - but it had a 984 cubic
>> inch D16 under the hood that weighed a ton and a half without
>> transmission or fluids and put 600 HP to the twin screw rear end..
>>
>> ANd without a load it was USELESS in snow too - - -
>>>
>>> As for limited slip, Volvos are supposed to be good in snow, if they
>>> need limited slip why don't they have it? And the Lincoln did not
>>> have it.
>>
>> NO car is good in snow without snows - and a second gen or newer Supra
>> in particular. Don't try BSing me. I was Toyota Service Manager - and
>> the low profile tires they came with were less than useless in snow
>> (Dunlop performance radials) They were like 4 flying saucers strapped
>> to the corners of the car. With narrow snow tires they handled and
>> went pretty good.
>
> Which tells you how bad the damned Volvo was.
>
>> The lincoln had enough weight on the rear wheels to make any tire
>> grip at least a LITTLE bit - - -
>> WHen I was rallying the Volvo 242 was right up there with the 2002
>> Bimmers and the 510 Datsuns for 2wd (even winter) rallying. (I
>> successfully campaigned a Renault R12 Fwd - the lowest powered car on
>> the circuit at the time) A good set of Haks or Metzlers made them into
>> pretty darn good "rubber on ice" ice racers too - - -
>
> And I'm sure if I just jacked the Volvo up and put a Jeep underneath
> it it would have been just fine. I'm not talking about a damned
> race-prepped special, I'm talking about showroom stock.
>
>> Corvettes are also extremely poor in snow with the stock "steam
>> rollers" on them. (and up here they virtually ALL get taken off the
>> road around Thanksgiving. ANyone with the bucks to drive a vette has
>> the money, if not the brains, to also have a "winter beater" - often
>> an Audi Quatro or aAWD BMW (if not a 4WD Sierra or an old H3)
>
> Which again tells you how bad the damned Volvo was.
>>>
>>>> If you drove a motorcycle when you
>>>> couldn't move with a Volvo you've got ROCKS in your head - and below
>>>> your belt.
>>>
>>> Yep, it took big ones. But once it was out of the parking lot and
>>> onto the plowed and salted road it was fine.
>>>
>> My bikes were always put away sometime about Thanksgiving and they
>> stayed away 'till at least Easter.
>
> Pahh-puck puck puck
>


Another pissing contest.

JC

J. Clarke

in reply to Clare Snyder on 22/12/2018 1:11 PM

23/12/2018 4:54 PM

On Sun, 23 Dec 2018 16:43:55 -0500, Clare Snyder <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On Sun, 23 Dec 2018 02:15:34 -0500, J. Clarke
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 23:44:40 -0500, Clare Snyder <[email protected]>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 21:50:11 -0500, J. Clarke
>>><[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 20:45:33 -0500, Clare Snyder <[email protected]>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 16:30:47 -0500, J. Clarke
>>>>><[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Except in the case of surface mount components solder should NEVER be
>>>>>>>the primary connection. All soldered joints should be "mechanically
>>>>>>>secure" before soldering. In other words, crimp AND solder, or twist
>>>>>>>AND solder. On battery cables you crimp to make the electrical and
>>>>>>>mechanical connection, then you solder to seal and protect the joint.
>>>>>>>(gas tight joint - which is also the aim of a properly crimped (or
>>>>>>>"crimp-welded" electrical connector.
>>>>>>> Even then, if the soldered cable end came loose, you had other
>>>>>>>problems - like a loose or corroded bolt-on connection that caused the
>>>>>>>connection to heat up. A properly connected and soldered cable end
>>>>>>>does NOT heat up enouigh to melt the solder.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The problem with that statement is "properly connected and soldered".
>>>>>>If it's "properly connected" it doesn't need solder and if it's
>>>>>>soldered you can't tell if it's being held together by the "proper
>>>>>>connection" or by the solder. In any case, it was a Volvo cable that
>>>>>>came on the car, the car was bought new, so if you have a problem with
>>>>>>its manufacture don't point fingers at _me_, point them at Volvo.
>>>>>
>>>>> Never seen a soldered battery cable from the factory on ANY Volvo.
>>>>>540, 122, 240 or P1800 series
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Note, Swedes must have mad driving skills--I've had two Volvos and
>>>>>>they were both horrible winter cars. Got stuck at the drop of a hat,
>>>>>>didn't like to start, the heater froze on one (not the coolant in the
>>>>>>heater core, the _fan_ managed to get full of ice, freeze, and burn
>>>>>>out the motor).
>>>>>
>>>>>Where are you driving?? The Volvo was no worse than - and in many
>>>>>cases much better than - any other compact or midsized rear wheel
>>>>>drive vehicle in the winter handling department
>>>>
>>>>Ohio, Connecticut, points in between. And I did not have near as much
>>>>trouble in the winter with a Lincoln Town Car, Toyota Supra, or
>>>>Corvette as I did with the Volvos. None of those struggled to get up
>>>>the hill on the way to work and all of them started first time every
>>>>time. Hell, there were days when I rode my motorcycle to work because
>>>>the Volvo wouldn't move (not wouldn't start, wouldn't _move_--there
>>>>was a half an inch of ice on the parking lot and it couldn't manage to
>>>>climb up on top of it).
>>> A continental is a TANK,
>>
>>Except that it wasn't a Continental.
>
> OK - so ANY Lincoln was a tank.
>>
>>> not a compact or mid-size - and your supra
>>>(talking second or third gen) outweighed the Volvo significantly and
>>>most likely also had limited slip.
>>
>>Care to show me the weight figures, oh mighty Toyota and Volvo expert?
>
> Well , a 164 outweighed a Supra G2 (about 3000) by about 300 lbs.
>A 142 was about 300 lbs lighter than the G2 Supra.
>The G3 Supras were pigs, outweighing the 164 by a good 300 at about
>3800
> The G4 was about 300 less than the G3
>
> If the Townn Car wasn't a Conti, it had to be newer than 1981.
>!981-89 weighed about 4000-4200 lbs. (About 400 lbs heavier than the
>heaviest Supra, and 1400 lbs heavier than the 1st gen Supra at 2800)
>The 1998 Corvette was only about 100 lbs LIGHTER than a G3 Supra at
>about 3250 -roughly half a ton lighter than the Towne Car
> The G4 was about 300 less than the G3
>
> When you get up into the 2000s, and the Volvo S60 etc you are into
>FWD and AWD - a totally different story - and they are fatter at
>about 3500 - 3900 lbs - still lighter than a Lincoln Town Car and
>about on par with the Supra G3
>>
>
>Go back to a PV544 and they barely tipped the scales at a ton.
>The 122 Amazon was about 200 lbs heavier at 2200.
>The P1800 wagon was about 300 pounds heavier than the Amazon at about
>2500.
>
>Tp put it in perspective, 2 122 Amazons weighed marginally more than a
>later model TowneCar.
>
>
>>>What tires did yhou have on the
>>>Volvo?
>>
>>The ones that came on it. Just like the Corvette and the Supra and
>>the Lincoln all had the tires that came on them.
>>
>>>and what model Volvo?..
>>
>>You should have asked that before spouting off schmott guy. But I'll
>>give you a hint--bother were heavier than the Supra and weighed about
>>the same as the Corvette.
>
> Still haven't said what kind of Volvo.

And I'm not going to since you're making an ass of yourself.

> My brother's Volvo outweighed a lincoln too - but it had a 984 cubic
>inch D16 under the hood that weighed a ton and a half without
>transmission or fluids and put 600 HP to the twin screw rear end..
>
>ANd without a load it was USELESS in snow too - - -
>>
>>As for limited slip, Volvos are supposed to be good in snow, if they
>>need limited slip why don't they have it? And the Lincoln did not
>>have it.
>
>NO car is good in snow without snows - and a second gen or newer Supra
>in particular. Don't try BSing me. I was Toyota Service Manager - and
>the low profile tires they came with were less than useless in snow
>(Dunlop performance radials) They were like 4 flying saucers strapped
>to the corners of the car. With narrow snow tires they handled and
>went pretty good.

Which tells you how bad the damned Volvo was.

> The lincoln had enough weight on the rear wheels to make any tire
>grip at least a LITTLE bit - - -
> WHen I was rallying the Volvo 242 was right up there with the 2002
>Bimmers and the 510 Datsuns for 2wd (even winter) rallying. (I
>successfully campaigned a Renault R12 Fwd - the lowest powered car on
>the circuit at the time) A good set of Haks or Metzlers made them into
>pretty darn good "rubber on ice" ice racers too - - -

And I'm sure if I just jacked the Volvo up and put a Jeep underneath
it it would have been just fine. I'm not talking about a damned
race-prepped special, I'm talking about showroom stock.

>Corvettes are also extremely poor in snow with the stock "steam
>rollers" on them. (and up here they virtually ALL get taken off the
>road around Thanksgiving. ANyone with the bucks to drive a vette has
>the money, if not the brains, to also have a "winter beater" - often
>an Audi Quatro or aAWD BMW (if not a 4WD Sierra or an old H3)

Which again tells you how bad the damned Volvo was.
>>
>>>If you drove a motorcycle when you
>>>couldn't move with a Volvo you've got ROCKS in your head - and below
>>>your belt.
>>
>>Yep, it took big ones. But once it was out of the parking lot and
>>onto the plowed and salted road it was fine.
>>
>My bikes were always put away sometime about Thanksgiving and they
>stayed away 'till at least Easter.

Pahh-puck puck puck

CS

Clare Snyder

in reply to DerbyDad03 on 21/12/2018 8:04 AM

22/12/2018 12:58 PM

On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 09:52:47 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Saturday, December 22, 2018 at 12:05:03 PM UTC-5, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
>> On Dec 21, 2018, DerbyDad03 wrote
>> (in article<[email protected]>):
>>
>> > On Friday, December 21, 2018 at 1:24:11 PM UTC-5, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
>> > > On Dec 21, 2018, DerbyDad03 wrote
>> > > (in article<[email protected]>):
>> > >
>> > > > On Friday, December 21, 2018 at 11:52:22 AM UTC-5, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
>> > > > > On Dec 21, 2018, DerbyDad03 wrote
>> > > > > (in article<[email protected]>):
>> > > > >
>> > > > > > Keeping this relevant to the wRec, the following video shows us how to
>> > > > > > replace
>> > > > > > the power cord on a circular saw.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > If you start at 4:30, you will see a technique for creating a "ring
>> > > > > > connector"
>> > > > > > from the bare power cord wires. What do think of this technique?
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61e5xG4kqXE>
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > I have some issues with some of the other things he says and does in t
>> e
>> > > > > > video, but this question is mainly about the connection method he uses
>>
>> > > > >
>> > > > > The proper method is to crimp a ring crimp terminal onto the wires, if
>> > > > > there
>> > > > > is space -- which looks questionable in this case.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > In the old days, manufacturers crimped a hollow brass eyelet around the
>> > > > > stranded wire, creating a solid metal ring, but I have not seen that in
>> > > > > ages,
>> > > > > and it wasn´t something that one could afford to do at home anyway.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Failing that, I twist the copper strands into a solid bundle and tin the
>> > > > > bundle with liquid rosin flux and radio solder, making a solid wire. Thi
>>
>> > > > > is
>> > > > > bent around the terminal screw in the direction of tightening, and the
>> > > > > screw
>> > > > > is tightened. The wrap direction is critical to ensure that the wire doe
>>
>> > > > > not
>> > > > > squeeze out from under the terminal screw.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > One could also form an eyelet as shown in the video, and then tinned the
>> > > > > copper wire to solidify the ring.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > The key is to ensure that thge terminal screw cannot cut the wire while
>> > > > > being
>> > > > > tightened.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > .
>> > > > > I would not have drilled the plastic to get to the torx screws in the
>> > > > > plastic
>> > > > > handle. One can get torx screwdriver inserts with 6" shafts.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > I could not see how the cable was clamped on entry to the saw handle, bu
>>
>> > > > > this area is critical.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Joe Gwinn
>> > > >
>> > > > BTW...I also don't like the fact that he used a 3 prong plug and cut the
>> > > > ground wire off on the inside, saying that using the 3 prong plug "doesn't
>> > > > hurt".
>> > > >
>> > > > I don't like doing that more on principle than on any actual "danger". I
>> > > > don't
>> > > > like giving the user the impression that a device is wired in a certain
>> > > > manner
>> > > > (e.g. equipment ground is present) when in reality it is wired differently
>>
>> > >
>> > > I agree. I would have connected the green to the motor frame somehow. But
>> > > double-insulated does work anyway, so the safety is not reduced.
>> > >
>> > > My lathe cane with floating green, and that lathe would give a tickle due to
>> > > leakage from motor windings to motor frame, and thus to lathe cabinet. The
>> > > short-tern fix was a green ground wite (with ring terminals at both ends)
>> > > from cabinet to electrical safety ground. Wen I rewired the lathe, I
>> > > discovered the floating green, and fixed the problem.
>> > >
>> > > But I will say that the guy in the video probably is not an electrical guy,
>> > > and so would not know what to do with that wire if he could not find a green
>> > > terminal for it.
>> > >
>> > > > I don't think that that tool would be approved by OSHA for use on a job
>> > > > site if they knew that the ground wire was not being used.
>> > >
>> > > Well, actually it would have been approved when it came out, and also today.
>> > > Double-insulated is still OK by UL.
>> > >
>> > > Joe Gwinn
>> >
>> > Yes, when it came out - double insulated with a 2 prong plug.
>> >
>> > Today, modified with a 3 prong plug and unconnected ground? I think not.
>> >
>> > I'd wager that if that saw was taken in for repair at an OSHA certified
>> > repair shop, the shop would open it up and say "We can't put it back together
>> > unless we replace the cord."
>> >
>> > If they wanted to be extra cautious so as not to get on the wrong side of
>> > OSHA, they'd probably interpret the "approved" sections of this letter
>> > very strictly:
>> >
>> > <https://www.osha.gov/laws-regs/standardinterpretations/2009-03-16-1>
>> >
>> > I could be wrong, but I'd wager a beverage or two on it.
>>
>> I agree with your interpretation ofthe OSHA page above, so I´ll not be
>> betting any precious beverages.
>>
>> But I´d wager that shops that are that too strict on such minor issues lose
>> business.
>
>I wonder if OSHA does sting operations to check these shops.
>
>Other than those fake "mandatory" OSHA training sessions held by
>immigration officers, that is.
Our local electrical tool repair depot always uses manufacturer
supplied or authorized replacement cords unless they are no longer
available, where they usually try to use a similar cord from the
suppliers other products, or a competitors part that is functionally
similar. They virtually NEVER use a "made up " cord.

Dt

DerbyDad03

in reply to DerbyDad03 on 21/12/2018 8:04 AM

23/12/2018 7:42 AM

On Saturday, December 22, 2018 at 11:12:14 PM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote=
:
> On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 08:48:35 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>=20
> >On Saturday, December 22, 2018 at 10:38:15 AM UTC-5, [email protected] wr=
ote:
> >> On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 04:56:43 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
> >> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>=20
> >> >On Saturday, December 22, 2018 at 12:27:23 AM UTC-5, [email protected]=
wrote:
> >> >> On Fri, 21 Dec 2018 09:13:14 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
> >> >> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> >>=20
> >> >> >On Friday, December 21, 2018 at 11:52:22 AM UTC-5, Joseph Gwinn wr=
ote:
> >> >> >> On Dec 21, 2018, DerbyDad03 wrote
> >> >> >> (in article<[email protected]=
m>):
> >> >> >>=20
> >> >> >> > Keeping this relevant to the wRec, the following video shows u=
s how to replace
> >> >> >> > the power cord on a circular saw.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > If you start at 4:30, you will see a technique for creating a =
"ring connector"
> >> >> >> > from the bare power cord wires. What do think of this techniqu=
e?
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D61e5xG4kqXE>
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > I have some issues with some of the other things he says and d=
oes in the
> >> >> >> > video, but this question is mainly about the connection method=
he uses.
> >> >> >>=20
> >> >> >> The proper method is to crimp a ring crimp terminal onto the wir=
es, if there=20
> >> >> >> is space -- which looks questionable in this case.
> >> >> >>=20
> >> >> >> In the old days, manufacturers crimped a hollow brass eyelet aro=
und the=20
> >> >> >> stranded wire, creating a solid metal ring, but I have not seen =
that in ages,=20
> >> >> >> and it wasn=C2=B4t something that one could afford to do at home=
anyway.
> >> >> >>=20
> >> >> >> Failing that, I twist the copper strands into a solid bundle and=
tin the=20
> >> >> >> bundle with liquid rosin flux and radio solder, making a solid w=
ire. This is=20
> >> >> >> bent around the terminal screw in the direction of tightening, a=
nd the screw=20
> >> >> >> is tightened. The wrap direction is critical to ensure that the =
wire does not=20
> >> >> >> squeeze out from under the terminal screw.
> >> >> >>=20
> >> >> >> One could also form an eyelet as shown in the video, and then ti=
nned the=20
> >> >> >> copper wire to solidify the ring.
> >> >> >>=20
> >> >> >> The key is to ensure that thge terminal screw cannot cut the wir=
e while being=20
> >> >> >> tightened.
> >> >> >>=20
> >> >> >> .
> >> >> >> I would not have drilled the plastic to get to the torx screws i=
n the plastic=20
> >> >> >> handle. One can get torx screwdriver inserts with 6" shafts.
> >> >> >>=20
> >> >> >> I could not see how the cable was clamped on entry to the saw ha=
ndle, but=20
> >> >> >> this area is critical.
> >> >> >>=20
> >> >> >> Joe Gwinn
> >> >> >
> >> >> >BTW...I also don't like the fact that he used a 3 prong plug and c=
ut the
> >> >> >ground wire off on the inside, saying that using the 3 prong plug =
"doesn't=20
> >> >> >hurt".
> >> >> >
> >> >> >I don't like doing that more on principle than on any actual "dang=
er". I don't
> >> >> >like giving the user the impression that a device is wired in a ce=
rtain manner=20
> >> >> >(e.g. equipment ground is present) when in reality it is wired dif=
ferently.
> >> >>=20
> >> >> +1
> >> >>=20
> >> >> >I don't think that that tool would be approved by OSHA for use on =
a job site
> >> >> >if they knew that the ground wire was not being used.=20
> >> >>=20
> >> >> Years back, one of our techs was required by industrial safety to a=
dd
> >> >> a 3-prong cordset to a plastic wall clock. I asked what he did wit=
h
> >> >> the green wire. "Connected it to the case, of course." The inspec=
tor
> >> >> was happy.
> >> >
> >> >That's what happens when they hire safety personnel with no actual sa=
fety knowledge just so=20
> >> >that they can check the "Hired Safety Personnel" box.
> >>=20
> >> Or when people are told to follow the rules, rather than understand
> >> the rules. BTW, this was in IBM.
> >
> >I used to work at a huge manufacturing/chemical plant. "Safety First" po=
sters
> >everywhere. Every department had a designated safety officer(s). Cash aw=
ards
> >were given if a someone pointed out a safety issue.
> >
> >As an IT tech I used to go everywhere within the plant. I won numerous
> >cash awards for pointing out safety issues but only after I had to convi=
nce
> >the safety officer of that department that it was an issue. Sometimes I=
=20
> >had to escalate the issue because the safety officer just didn't get the=
=20
> >point. The lack of common sense was really scary.
>=20
> That's another good one. They wouldn't pay engineers for safety, or
> other suggestions but they would pay hourly staff. I'd just point out
> problems to my technician and he'd collect the easy money. Often it
> was stupid things like a sign blocking an Exit sign, and such. The
> safety people would get pissed-off because they were supposed to catch
> such things.

This suggestion wasn't specifically a safety issue, but I got paid on it=20
through the corporate Suggestion System that paid for suggestions that resu=
lted
in a money saving process change.

My company was already in trouble for possible ground contamination in the=
=20
surrounding neighborhood - including the ground under the grade school
that was named for the company. One morning I was walking from the parking
to the security gate, a walk that took me down a public street along the
plant's fence. As I looked through the fence and down a road between 2=20
buildings, I saw foam bubbling up out of a sewer, breaking up into pieces=
=20
2-3 feet across and blowing down the road. Some of the bubble masses were=
=20
settling right up against the fence. Definitely not a good look for a compa=
ny=20
already in trouble with the EPA.

I had a friend who was in management for that part of the plant so I called
him and asked him how I should report it. He told me that he would contact
the proper department. He then called me a few days later and told me to=20
put in a suggestion saying that the ABC department should be using anti-foa=
ming
agent in the XYZ discharge system. He told me to route the suggestion throu=
gh
his department. When I wrote up the suggestion, I added a few words about t=
he=20
"bad look, especially at this time". About a month later I got a check for =
$3K.
That would be about $6.5K in today's dollars.

Apparently that "bad look" was worth preventing.=20

JC

J. Clarke

in reply to DerbyDad03 on 21/12/2018 8:04 AM

22/12/2018 1:38 PM

On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 13:11:47 -0500, Clare Snyder <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 11:48:54 -0500, Joseph Gwinn
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>On Dec 22, 2018, [email protected] wrote
>>(in article<[email protected]>):
>>
>>> On Fri, 21 Dec 2018 13:56:57 -0500, Clare Snyder<[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> > On Fri, 21 Dec 2018 13:31:34 -0500, J. Clarke
>>> > <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > > On Fri, 21 Dec 2018 13:24:03 -0500, Joseph Gwinn
>>> > > <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> > >
>>> > > > On Dec 21, 2018, DerbyDad03 wrote
>>> > > > (in article<[email protected]>):
>>> > > >
>>> > > > > On Friday, December 21, 2018 at 11:52:22 AM UTC-5, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
>>> > > > > > On Dec 21, 2018, DerbyDad03 wrote
>>> > > > > > (in article<[email protected]>):
>>> > > > > >
>>> > > > > > > Keeping this relevant to the wRec, the following video shows us how to
>>> > > > > > > replace
>>> > > > > > > the power cord on a circular saw.
>>> > > > > > >
>>> > > > > > > If you start at 4:30, you will see a technique for creating a "ring
>>> > > > > > > connector"
>>> > > > > > > from the bare power cord wires. What do think of this technique?
>>> > > > > > >
>>> > > > > > > <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61e5xG4kqXE>
>>> > > > > > >
>>> > > > > > > I have some issues with some of the other things he says and does in
>>> > > > > > > the
>>> > > > > > > video, but this question is mainly about the connection method he uses.
>>> > > > > >
>>> > > > > > The proper method is to crimp a ring crimp terminal onto the wires, if
>>> > > > > > there
>>> > > > > > is space -- which looks questionable in this case.
>>> >
>>> > The "eylet" procedure he uses is not uncommon - but to do it ptoperly
>>> > he should solder the loop
>>>
>>> *NOT* a good idea. Soldering the loop will put all the bending and
>>> vibration stress at the point where the solder ends. The wire will
>>> work-harden at that point.
>>
>>Only if one has not secured the cable at the entry point, as discussed
>>upthread.
>>
>>I have been doing this for decades, and have never had this problem.
>>
>>If the assembly was going to undergo military-level vibration testing, then
>>no soldering - must be crimped.
>>
>>Joe Gwinn
> As in aviation repairs - where "soldered connections MUST be
>supported" - which is generally interpreted as "crimp only"

There's another issue with solder on connections that carry
significant power--heat it up and solder melts. I ran into this with
the ground cable on a Volvo once. Took me the longest time to figure
it out--when the weather was warm the car would start fine, when it
was cold it wouldn't, but when I checked things the battery and cables
were fine. Wasn't until I noticed something smoking one day that I
figured out that it was the soldered-on ground clamp that most of the
solder had run out of so there wasn't much contact but enough that a
meter showed low resistance. Had a connector one crimped on and the
problem went away.

Admittedly this is less likely to be an issue with a saw but it's
still worth bearing in mind. There's a reason NEC requires pressure
connectors and not solder.

CS

Clare Snyder

in reply to J. Clarke on 22/12/2018 1:38 PM

23/12/2018 6:34 PM

On Sun, 23 Dec 2018 16:54:27 -0500, J. Clarke
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Sun, 23 Dec 2018 16:43:55 -0500, Clare Snyder <[email protected]>
>wr
>>
>> Still haven't said what kind of Volvo.
>
>And I'm not going to since you're making an ass of yourself.

WHo's making an ass of themselves by not giving details and making
somewhat rediculous claims????

Put up or shut up.
>
>> My brother's Volvo outweighed a lincoln too - but it had a 984 cubic
>>inch D16 under the hood that weighed a ton and a half without
>>transmission or fluids and put 600 HP to the twin screw rear end..
>>
>>ANd without a load it was USELESS in snow too - - -
>>>
>>>As for limited slip, Volvos are supposed to be good in snow, if they
>>>need limited slip why don't they have it? And the Lincoln did not
>>>have it.
>>
>>NO car is good in snow without snows - and a second gen or newer Supra
>>in particular. Don't try BSing me. I was Toyota Service Manager - and
>>the low profile tires they came with were less than useless in snow
>>(Dunlop performance radials) They were like 4 flying saucers strapped
>>to the corners of the car. With narrow snow tires they handled and
>>went pretty good.
>
>Which tells you how bad the damned Volvo was.

What Volvo? and further to that, what tires? FWD or RWD or AWD? All
Season or Performance Touring tires???
>
>> The lincoln had enough weight on the rear wheels to make any tire
>>grip at least a LITTLE bit - - -
>> WHen I was rallying the Volvo 242 was right up there with the 2002
>>Bimmers and the 510 Datsuns for 2wd (even winter) rallying. (I
>>successfully campaigned a Renault R12 Fwd - the lowest powered car on
>>the circuit at the time) A good set of Haks or Metzlers made them into
>>pretty darn good "rubber on ice" ice racers too - - -
>
>And I'm sure if I just jacked the Volvo up and put a Jeep underneath
>it it would have been just fine. I'm not talking about a damned
>race-prepped special, I'm talking about showroom stock.

The ice racers are "showrioom stock" and the rallye cars were
"unprepared" - meaning NO MODIFICATIONS beyond changing shocks and
sway bars. Mine was BONE STOCK. All you could change beyond that was
your rubber - and it had to fit the factory sheet metal.
>
>>Corvettes are also extremely poor in snow with the stock "steam
>>rollers" on them. (and up here they virtually ALL get taken off the
>>road around Thanksgiving. ANyone with the bucks to drive a vette has
>>the money, if not the brains, to also have a "winter beater" - often
>>an Audi Quatro or aAWD BMW (if not a 4WD Sierra or an old H3)
>
>Which again tells you how bad the damned Volvo was.

Still no indication what kind of Volvo - or even what Supra (there
were at least 4 VERY DIFFERENT supras) or what 'Vett either for that
matter - C1 to C7 there have been a LOT of changes -- - -
>>>
>>>>If you drove a motorcycle when you
>>>>couldn't move with a Volvo you've got ROCKS in your head - and below
>>>>your belt.
>>>
>>>Yep, it took big ones. But once it was out of the parking lot and
>>>onto the plowed and salted road it was fine.
>>>
>>My bikes were always put away sometime about Thanksgiving and they
>>stayed away 'till at least Easter.
>
>Pahh-puck puck puck

Dt

DerbyDad03

in reply to DerbyDad03 on 21/12/2018 8:04 AM

21/12/2018 9:06 AM

On Friday, December 21, 2018 at 11:52:22 AM UTC-5, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
> On Dec 21, 2018, DerbyDad03 wrote
> (in article<[email protected]>):
>=20
> > Keeping this relevant to the wRec, the following video shows us how to =
replace
> > the power cord on a circular saw.
> >
> > If you start at 4:30, you will see a technique for creating a "ring con=
nector"
> > from the bare power cord wires. What do think of this technique?
> >
> > <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D61e5xG4kqXE>
> >
> > I have some issues with some of the other things he says and does in th=
e
> > video, but this question is mainly about the connection method he uses.
>=20
> The proper method is to crimp a ring crimp terminal onto the wires, if th=
ere=20
> is space -- which looks questionable in this case.
>=20
> In the old days, manufacturers crimped a hollow brass eyelet around the=
=20
> stranded wire, creating a solid metal ring, but I have not seen that in a=
ges,=20
> and it wasn=C2=B4t something that one could afford to do at home anyway.
>=20
> Failing that, I twist the copper strands into a solid bundle and tin the=
=20
> bundle with liquid rosin flux and radio solder, making a solid wire. This=
is=20
> bent around the terminal screw in the direction of tightening, and the sc=
rew=20
> is tightened. The wrap direction is critical to ensure that the wire does=
not=20
> squeeze out from under the terminal screw.
>=20
> One could also form an eyelet as shown in the video, and then tinned the=
=20
> copper wire to solidify the ring.
>=20
> The key is to ensure that thge terminal screw cannot cut the wire while b=
eing=20
> tightened.
>=20
> .
> I would not have drilled the plastic to get to the torx screws in the pla=
stic=20
> handle. One can get torx screwdriver inserts with 6" shafts.

That was one of my issues also. In fact, on that model saw, the Torx screws
are also slotted. A narrow flat blade screw driver works just fine in the=
=20
deep handle hole.

>=20
> I could not see how the cable was clamped on entry to the saw handle, but=
=20
> this area is critical.

The handle itself clamps the cord in 2 places.
=20
1 - The hole formed by the 2 piece handle for the stress relief sleeve is
smaller than the sleeve itself.=20

2 - Interior from that, the handle pieces form another "hole" that has a=20
straight plastic bar across it. As long as you leave the outer insulation=
=20
on the cord, you basically need a clamp to close the handle before screwing=
=20
it back together. You could use the screws to pull it together but I don't
like putting that much stress on screws going into plastic. =20

Dt

DerbyDad03

in reply to DerbyDad03 on 21/12/2018 8:04 AM

22/12/2018 8:48 AM

On Saturday, December 22, 2018 at 10:38:15 AM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote=
:
> On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 04:56:43 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>=20
> >On Saturday, December 22, 2018 at 12:27:23 AM UTC-5, [email protected] wr=
ote:
> >> On Fri, 21 Dec 2018 09:13:14 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
> >> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>=20
> >> >On Friday, December 21, 2018 at 11:52:22 AM UTC-5, Joseph Gwinn wrote=
:
> >> >> On Dec 21, 2018, DerbyDad03 wrote
> >> >> (in article<[email protected]>)=
:
> >> >>=20
> >> >> > Keeping this relevant to the wRec, the following video shows us h=
ow to replace
> >> >> > the power cord on a circular saw.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > If you start at 4:30, you will see a technique for creating a "ri=
ng connector"
> >> >> > from the bare power cord wires. What do think of this technique?
> >> >> >
> >> >> > <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D61e5xG4kqXE>
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I have some issues with some of the other things he says and does=
in the
> >> >> > video, but this question is mainly about the connection method he=
uses.
> >> >>=20
> >> >> The proper method is to crimp a ring crimp terminal onto the wires,=
if there=20
> >> >> is space -- which looks questionable in this case.
> >> >>=20
> >> >> In the old days, manufacturers crimped a hollow brass eyelet around=
the=20
> >> >> stranded wire, creating a solid metal ring, but I have not seen tha=
t in ages,=20
> >> >> and it wasn=C2=B4t something that one could afford to do at home an=
yway.
> >> >>=20
> >> >> Failing that, I twist the copper strands into a solid bundle and ti=
n the=20
> >> >> bundle with liquid rosin flux and radio solder, making a solid wire=
. This is=20
> >> >> bent around the terminal screw in the direction of tightening, and =
the screw=20
> >> >> is tightened. The wrap direction is critical to ensure that the wir=
e does not=20
> >> >> squeeze out from under the terminal screw.
> >> >>=20
> >> >> One could also form an eyelet as shown in the video, and then tinne=
d the=20
> >> >> copper wire to solidify the ring.
> >> >>=20
> >> >> The key is to ensure that thge terminal screw cannot cut the wire w=
hile being=20
> >> >> tightened.
> >> >>=20
> >> >> .
> >> >> I would not have drilled the plastic to get to the torx screws in t=
he plastic=20
> >> >> handle. One can get torx screwdriver inserts with 6" shafts.
> >> >>=20
> >> >> I could not see how the cable was clamped on entry to the saw handl=
e, but=20
> >> >> this area is critical.
> >> >>=20
> >> >> Joe Gwinn
> >> >
> >> >BTW...I also don't like the fact that he used a 3 prong plug and cut =
the
> >> >ground wire off on the inside, saying that using the 3 prong plug "do=
esn't=20
> >> >hurt".
> >> >
> >> >I don't like doing that more on principle than on any actual "danger"=
. I don't
> >> >like giving the user the impression that a device is wired in a certa=
in manner=20
> >> >(e.g. equipment ground is present) when in reality it is wired differ=
ently.
> >>=20
> >> +1
> >>=20
> >> >I don't think that that tool would be approved by OSHA for use on a j=
ob site
> >> >if they knew that the ground wire was not being used.=20
> >>=20
> >> Years back, one of our techs was required by industrial safety to add
> >> a 3-prong cordset to a plastic wall clock. I asked what he did with
> >> the green wire. "Connected it to the case, of course." The inspector
> >> was happy.
> >
> >That's what happens when they hire safety personnel with no actual safet=
y knowledge just so=20
> >that they can check the "Hired Safety Personnel" box.
>=20
> Or when people are told to follow the rules, rather than understand
> the rules. BTW, this was in IBM.

I used to work at a huge manufacturing/chemical plant. "Safety First" poste=
rs
everywhere. Every department had a designated safety officer(s). Cash award=
s
were given if a someone pointed out a safety issue.

As an IT tech I used to go everywhere within the plant. I won numerous
cash awards for pointing out safety issues but only after I had to convince
the safety officer of that department that it was an issue. Sometimes I=20
had to escalate the issue because the safety officer just didn't get the=20
point. The lack of common sense was really scary.

sS

[email protected] (Scott Lurndal)

in reply to DerbyDad03 on 21/12/2018 8:04 AM

22/12/2018 7:46 PM

DerbyDad03 <[email protected]> writes:
>On Saturday, December 22, 2018 at 12:27:23 AM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote=
>:

>>=20
>> Years back, one of our techs was required by industrial safety to add
>> a 3-prong cordset to a plastic wall clock. I asked what he did with
>> the green wire. "Connected it to the case, of course." The inspector
>> was happy.
>
>That's what happens when they hire safety personnel with no actual safety k=
>nowledge just so=20
>that they can check the "Hired Safety Personnel" box.
>

Assuming the story is actually factual. It sounds more like
a "I heard from someone who heard from someone" to me.

Ll

Leon

in reply to DerbyDad03 on 21/12/2018 8:04 AM

23/12/2018 10:00 AM

On 12/23/2018 9:42 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Saturday, December 22, 2018 at 11:12:14 PM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 08:48:35 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> On Saturday, December 22, 2018 at 10:38:15 AM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 04:56:43 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Saturday, December 22, 2018 at 12:27:23 AM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>>> On Fri, 21 Dec 2018 09:13:14 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Friday, December 21, 2018 at 11:52:22 AM UTC-5, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Dec 21, 2018, DerbyDad03 wrote
>>>>>>>> (in article<[email protected]>):
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Keeping this relevant to the wRec, the following video shows us how to replace
>>>>>>>>> the power cord on a circular saw.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If you start at 4:30, you will see a technique for creating a "ring connector"
>>>>>>>>> from the bare power cord wires. What do think of this technique?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61e5xG4kqXE>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I have some issues with some of the other things he says and does in the
>>>>>>>>> video, but this question is mainly about the connection method he uses.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The proper method is to crimp a ring crimp terminal onto the wires, if there
>>>>>>>> is space -- which looks questionable in this case.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In the old days, manufacturers crimped a hollow brass eyelet around the
>>>>>>>> stranded wire, creating a solid metal ring, but I have not seen that in ages,
>>>>>>>> and it wasn´t something that one could afford to do at home anyway.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Failing that, I twist the copper strands into a solid bundle and tin the
>>>>>>>> bundle with liquid rosin flux and radio solder, making a solid wire. This is
>>>>>>>> bent around the terminal screw in the direction of tightening, and the screw
>>>>>>>> is tightened. The wrap direction is critical to ensure that the wire does not
>>>>>>>> squeeze out from under the terminal screw.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> One could also form an eyelet as shown in the video, and then tinned the
>>>>>>>> copper wire to solidify the ring.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The key is to ensure that thge terminal screw cannot cut the wire while being
>>>>>>>> tightened.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>> I would not have drilled the plastic to get to the torx screws in the plastic
>>>>>>>> handle. One can get torx screwdriver inserts with 6" shafts.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I could not see how the cable was clamped on entry to the saw handle, but
>>>>>>>> this area is critical.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Joe Gwinn
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> BTW...I also don't like the fact that he used a 3 prong plug and cut the
>>>>>>> ground wire off on the inside, saying that using the 3 prong plug "doesn't
>>>>>>> hurt".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't like doing that more on principle than on any actual "danger". I don't
>>>>>>> like giving the user the impression that a device is wired in a certain manner
>>>>>>> (e.g. equipment ground is present) when in reality it is wired differently.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> +1
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't think that that tool would be approved by OSHA for use on a job site
>>>>>>> if they knew that the ground wire was not being used.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Years back, one of our techs was required by industrial safety to add
>>>>>> a 3-prong cordset to a plastic wall clock. I asked what he did with
>>>>>> the green wire. "Connected it to the case, of course." The inspector
>>>>>> was happy.
>>>>>
>>>>> That's what happens when they hire safety personnel with no actual safety knowledge just so
>>>>> that they can check the "Hired Safety Personnel" box.
>>>>
>>>> Or when people are told to follow the rules, rather than understand
>>>> the rules. BTW, this was in IBM.
>>>
>>> I used to work at a huge manufacturing/chemical plant. "Safety First" posters
>>> everywhere. Every department had a designated safety officer(s). Cash awards
>>> were given if a someone pointed out a safety issue.
>>>
>>> As an IT tech I used to go everywhere within the plant. I won numerous
>>> cash awards for pointing out safety issues but only after I had to convince
>>> the safety officer of that department that it was an issue. Sometimes I
>>> had to escalate the issue because the safety officer just didn't get the
>>> point. The lack of common sense was really scary.
>>
>> That's another good one. They wouldn't pay engineers for safety, or
>> other suggestions but they would pay hourly staff. I'd just point out
>> problems to my technician and he'd collect the easy money. Often it
>> was stupid things like a sign blocking an Exit sign, and such. The
>> safety people would get pissed-off because they were supposed to catch
>> such things.
>
> This suggestion wasn't specifically a safety issue, but I got paid on it
> through the corporate Suggestion System that paid for suggestions that resulted
> in a money saving process change.
>
> My company was already in trouble for possible ground contamination in the
> surrounding neighborhood - including the ground under the grade school
> that was named for the company. One morning I was walking from the parking
> to the security gate, a walk that took me down a public street along the
> plant's fence. As I looked through the fence and down a road between 2
> buildings, I saw foam bubbling up out of a sewer, breaking up into pieces
> 2-3 feet across and blowing down the road. Some of the bubble masses were
> settling right up against the fence. Definitely not a good look for a company
> already in trouble with the EPA.
>
> I had a friend who was in management for that part of the plant so I called
> him and asked him how I should report it. He told me that he would contact
> the proper department. He then called me a few days later and told me to
> put in a suggestion saying that the ABC department should be using anti-foaming
> agent in the XYZ discharge system. He told me to route the suggestion through
> his department. When I wrote up the suggestion, I added a few words about the
> "bad look, especially at this time". About a month later I got a check for $3K.
> That would be about $6.5K in today's dollars.
>
> Apparently that "bad look" was worth preventing.
>

So you got paid for being part of the cover up. ;~)

CS

Clare Snyder

in reply to DerbyDad03 on 21/12/2018 8:04 AM

21/12/2018 9:06 PM

On Fri, 21 Dec 2018 13:56:57 -0500, Clare Snyder <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On Fri, 21 Dec 2018 13:31:34 -0500, J. Clarke
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 21 Dec 2018 13:24:03 -0500, Joseph Gwinn
>><[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>On Dec 21, 2018, DerbyDad03 wrote
>>>(in article<[email protected]>):
>>>
>>>> On Friday, December 21, 2018 at 11:52:22 AM UTC-5, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
>>>> > On Dec 21, 2018, DerbyDad03 wrote
>>>> > (in article<[email protected]>):
>>>> >
>>>> > > Keeping this relevant to the wRec, the following video shows us how to
>>>> > > replace
>>>> > > the power cord on a circular saw.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > If you start at 4:30, you will see a technique for creating a "ring
>>>> > > connector"
>>>> > > from the bare power cord wires. What do think of this technique?
>>>> > >
>>>> > > <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61e5xG4kqXE>
>>>> > >
>>>> > > I have some issues with some of the other things he says and does in the
>>>> > > video, but this question is mainly about the connection method he uses.
>>>> >
>>>> > The proper method is to crimp a ring crimp terminal onto the wires, if there
>>>> > is space -- which looks questionable in this case.
>
>The "eylet" procedure he uses is not uncommon - but to do it ptoperly
>he should solder the loop
>>>> >
>>>> > In the old days, manufacturers crimped a hollow brass eyelet around the
>>>> > stranded wire, creating a solid metal ring, but I have not seen that in
>>>> > ages,
>>>> > and it wasn´t something that one could afford to do at home anyway.
>>>> >
>>>> > Failing that, I twist the copper strands into a solid bundle and tin the
>>>> > bundle with liquid rosin flux and radio solder, making a solid wire. This is
>>>> > bent around the terminal screw in the direction of tightening, and the screw
>>>> > is tightened. The wrap direction is critical to ensure that the wire does
>>>> > not
>>>> > squeeze out from under the terminal screw.
>
>The full wire bent around the contact screw can often be too much - a
>crimprd ting is best, the "split eye" soldered is next best.
>>>> >
>>>> > One could also form an eyelet as shown in the video, and then tinned the
>>>> > copper wire to solidify the ring.
>
>WHich is what "I" prefer
>>>> >
>>>> > The key is to ensure that thge terminal screw cannot cut the wire while
>>>> > being
>>>> > tightened.
>>>> >
>>>> > .
>>>> > I would not have drilled the plastic to get to the torx screws in the
>>>> > plastic
>>>> > handle. One can get torx screwdriver inserts with 6" shafts.
>
>Correct - a bit of a "bodge"
>>>> >
>>>> > I could not see how the cable was clamped on entry to the saw handle, but
>>>> > this area is critical.
>>>> >
>Correct. The original likely had an insulated netalclamp around the
>cord. Or it was "bonded" into the strain releif (I've done it with
>silicone sealer)
>>>> > Joe Gwinn
>>>>
>>>> BTW...I also don't like the fact that he used a 3 prong plug and cut the
>>>> ground wire off on the inside, saying that using the 3 prong plug "doesn't
>>>> hurt".
>>>>
>>>> I don't like doing that more on principle than on any actual "danger". I don't
>>>> like giving the user the impression that a device is wired in a certain manner
>>>> (e.g. equipment ground is present) when in reality it is wired differently.
>>>
>>>I agree. I would have connected the green to the motor frame somehow. But
>>>double-insulated does work anyway, so the safety is not reduced.
>>>
>>>My lathe cane with floating green, and that lathe would give a tickle due to
>>>leakage from motor windings to motor frame, and thus to lathe cabinet. The
>>>short-tern fix was a green ground wite (with ring terminals at both ends)
>>>from cabinet to electrical safety ground. Wen I rewired the lathe, I
>>>discovered the floating green, and fixed the problem.
>>>
>>>But I will say that the guy in the video probably is not an electrical guy,
>>>and so would not know what to do with that wire if he could not find a green
>>>terminal for it.
>>>
>>>> I don't think that that tool would be approved by OSHA for use on a job site
>>>> if they knew that the ground wire was not being used.
>>>
>
> The green wire isn't an OSHA issue, per se, but that cap plug would
>not pass. The saw came with a molded plug and most OSHA inspectors
>won't pass a "repaired" cord of any type.
>
>I know they don't like manually installed ends - male or female - on
>extention cords. Used to repair damaged cords by making one cord into
>2. Now I get those cords for home use because they are not allowed on
>a job site. Lots of "good" cords are scrapped every year because they
>cannot be "repaired"
>
>Some inspectors may not be as "anal" as the ones around here -- -
>>>Well, actually it would have been approved when it came out, and also today.
>>>Double-insulated is still OK by UL.
>>
>>The thing I wonder about is how it got the three-wire cord to begin
>>with. I suspect that the cord that was on it was not the original.
Reading my reply I guess I should proofread my replies -fat finger
syndrome hit again

Dt

DerbyDad03

in reply to DerbyDad03 on 21/12/2018 8:04 AM

22/12/2018 9:52 AM

On Saturday, December 22, 2018 at 12:05:03 PM UTC-5, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
> On Dec 21, 2018, DerbyDad03 wrote
> (in article<[email protected]>):
>=20
> > On Friday, December 21, 2018 at 1:24:11 PM UTC-5, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
> > > On Dec 21, 2018, DerbyDad03 wrote
> > > (in article<[email protected]>):
> > >
> > > > On Friday, December 21, 2018 at 11:52:22 AM UTC-5, Joseph Gwinn wro=
te:
> > > > > On Dec 21, 2018, DerbyDad03 wrote
> > > > > (in article<[email protected]=
>):
> > > > >
> > > > > > Keeping this relevant to the wRec, the following video shows us=
how to
> > > > > > replace
> > > > > > the power cord on a circular saw.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If you start at 4:30, you will see a technique for creating a "=
ring
> > > > > > connector"
> > > > > > from the bare power cord wires. What do think of this technique=
?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D61e5xG4kqXE>
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I have some issues with some of the other things he says and do=
es in t
> e
> > > > > > video, but this question is mainly about the connection method =
he uses
>=20
> > > > >
> > > > > The proper method is to crimp a ring crimp terminal onto the wire=
s, if
> > > > > there
> > > > > is space -- which looks questionable in this case.
> > > > >
> > > > > In the old days, manufacturers crimped a hollow brass eyelet arou=
nd the
> > > > > stranded wire, creating a solid metal ring, but I have not seen t=
hat in
> > > > > ages,
> > > > > and it wasn=C2=B4t something that one could afford to do at home =
anyway.
> > > > >
> > > > > Failing that, I twist the copper strands into a solid bundle and =
tin the
> > > > > bundle with liquid rosin flux and radio solder, making a solid wi=
re. Thi
>=20
> > > > > is
> > > > > bent around the terminal screw in the direction of tightening, an=
d the
> > > > > screw
> > > > > is tightened. The wrap direction is critical to ensure that the w=
ire doe
>=20
> > > > > not
> > > > > squeeze out from under the terminal screw.
> > > > >
> > > > > One could also form an eyelet as shown in the video, and then tin=
ned the
> > > > > copper wire to solidify the ring.
> > > > >
> > > > > The key is to ensure that thge terminal screw cannot cut the wire=
while
> > > > > being
> > > > > tightened.
> > > > >
> > > > > .
> > > > > I would not have drilled the plastic to get to the torx screws in=
the
> > > > > plastic
> > > > > handle. One can get torx screwdriver inserts with 6" shafts.
> > > > >
> > > > > I could not see how the cable was clamped on entry to the saw han=
dle, bu
>=20
> > > > > this area is critical.
> > > > >
> > > > > Joe Gwinn
> > > >
> > > > BTW...I also don't like the fact that he used a 3 prong plug and cu=
t the
> > > > ground wire off on the inside, saying that using the 3 prong plug "=
doesn't
> > > > hurt".
> > > >
> > > > I don't like doing that more on principle than on any actual "dange=
r". I
> > > > don't
> > > > like giving the user the impression that a device is wired in a cer=
tain
> > > > manner
> > > > (e.g. equipment ground is present) when in reality it is wired diff=
erently
>=20
> > >
> > > I agree. I would have connected the green to the motor frame somehow.=
But
> > > double-insulated does work anyway, so the safety is not reduced.
> > >
> > > My lathe cane with floating green, and that lathe would give a tickle=
due to
> > > leakage from motor windings to motor frame, and thus to lathe cabinet=
. The
> > > short-tern fix was a green ground wite (with ring terminals at both e=
nds)
> > > from cabinet to electrical safety ground. Wen I rewired the lathe, I
> > > discovered the floating green, and fixed the problem.
> > >
> > > But I will say that the guy in the video probably is not an electrica=
l guy,
> > > and so would not know what to do with that wire if he could not find =
a green
> > > terminal for it.
> > >
> > > > I don't think that that tool would be approved by OSHA for use on a=
job
> > > > site if they knew that the ground wire was not being used.
> > >
> > > Well, actually it would have been approved when it came out, and also=
today.
> > > Double-insulated is still OK by UL.
> > >
> > > Joe Gwinn
> >
> > Yes, when it came out - double insulated with a 2 prong plug.
> >
> > Today, modified with a 3 prong plug and unconnected ground? I think not=
.
> >
> > I'd wager that if that saw was taken in for repair at an OSHA certified
> > repair shop, the shop would open it up and say "We can't put it back to=
gether
> > unless we replace the cord."
> >
> > If they wanted to be extra cautious so as not to get on the wrong side =
of
> > OSHA, they'd probably interpret the "approved" sections of this letter
> > very strictly:
> >
> > <https://www.osha.gov/laws-regs/standardinterpretations/2009-03-16-1>
> >
> > I could be wrong, but I'd wager a beverage or two on it.
>=20
> I agree with your interpretation ofthe OSHA page above, so I=C2=B4ll not =
be=20
> betting any precious beverages.
>=20
> But I=C2=B4d wager that shops that are that too strict on such minor issu=
es lose=20
> business.=20

I wonder if OSHA does sting operations to check these shops.=20

Other than those fake "mandatory" OSHA training sessions held by=20
immigration officers, that is.

Dt

DerbyDad03

in reply to DerbyDad03 on 21/12/2018 8:04 AM

22/12/2018 10:35 AM

On Saturday, December 22, 2018 at 1:19:01 PM UTC-5, Clare Snyder wrote:
> On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 04:56:43 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> SNIPPED
> >> >
> >> >BTW...I also don't like the fact that he used a 3 prong plug and cut the
> >> >ground wire off on the inside, saying that using the 3 prong plug "doesn't
> >> >hurt".
> >> >
>
> I take more exception to his statement that the position of the
> wires (black vs white) inside the tool doesn't matter. There is a
> reason ALL double insulated devices have "polarized" plugs!

That one was on my list too. There were a number of things that I took
exception to, which was why I asked my question about the "homemade ring
connector". With all the other things that I considered "wrong" I was
wondering if I should add that to my list.

I laughed at one of his other lines, in reference to blowing the saw dust
out of the handle. "Repair shops don't do it, so I'm not going to either."

I have my own saying about keeping things clean: "If I'm cleaning it, I'm
looking at it."

I keep my vehicles as close to spotless as possible, inside and out. If
I'm vacuuming it, I'm looking in every nook and cranny. I might see a
damaged seat belt anchor or a lose wire under a seat. If I'm wiping down
the door jambs, I might find rust. If I'm wiping down the engine, I might
see oil seepage.

The same goes for blowing the saw dust out of the handle as long as I have
it open. It can't hurt, it can only help.

>
> A 3 prong plug, if properly wired, plays the part of a "polarized
> plug" by ensuring the neutral wire of the tool always finds the
> neutral of the outlet - - -
>
>
> That said - the PROPER polarized cord, correctly connected, is the
> PROPER way to repair it.
>
> What he did - with the exception of disregarding the "polarity" of the
> cord was likely "safe" for home and personal use but would NOT pass on
> a job-site.
> >> >I don't like doing that more on principle than on any actual "danger". I don't
> >> >like giving the user the impression that a device is wired in a certain manner
> >> >(e.g. equipment ground is present) when in reality it is wired differently.
> >>
> >> +1
> >>
> >> >I don't think that that tool would be approved by OSHA for use on a job site
> >> >if they knew that the ground wire was not being used.
> >>
> >> Years back, one of our techs was required by industrial safety to add
> >> a 3-prong cordset to a plastic wall clock. I asked what he did with
> >> the green wire. "Connected it to the case, of course." The inspector
> >> was happy.
> >
> >That's what happens when they hire safety personnel with no actual safety knowledge just so
> >that they can check the "Hired Safety Personnel" box.

JC

J. Clarke

in reply to DerbyDad03 on 21/12/2018 8:04 AM

21/12/2018 4:53 PM

On Fri, 21 Dec 2018 16:48:36 -0500, Joseph Gwinn
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Dec 21, 2018, J. Clarke wrote
>(in article<[email protected]>):
>
>> On Fri, 21 Dec 2018 13:24:03 -0500, Joseph Gwinn
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> > On Dec 21, 2018, DerbyDad03 wrote
>> > (in article<[email protected]>):
>> >
>> > > On Friday, December 21, 2018 at 11:52:22 AM UTC-5, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
>> > > > On Dec 21, 2018, DerbyDad03 wrote
>> > > > (in article<[email protected]>):
>> > > >
>> > > > > Keeping this relevant to the wRec, the following video shows us how to
>> > > > > replace
>> > > > > the power cord on a circular saw.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > If you start at 4:30, you will see a technique for creating a "ring
>> > > > > connector"
>> > > > > from the bare power cord wires. What do think of this technique?
>> > > > >
>> > > > > <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61e5xG4kqXE>
>> > > > >
>> > > > > I have some issues with some of the other things he says and does in t
>e
>> > > > > video, but this question is mainly about the connection method he uses
>
>> > > >
>> > > > The proper method is to crimp a ring crimp terminal onto the wires, if
>> > > > there is space -- which looks questionable in this case.
>> > > >
>> > > > In the old days, manufacturers crimped a hollow brass eyelet around the
>> > > > stranded wire, creating a solid metal ring, but I have not seen that in
>> > > > ages,
>> > > > and it wasn´t something that one could afford to do at home anyway.
>> > > >
>> > > > Failing that, I twist the copper strands into a solid bundle and tin the
>> > > > bundle with liquid rosin flux and radio solder, making a solid wire. Thi
>
>> > > > is bent around the terminal screw in the direction of tightening, and th
>
>> > > > screw is tightened. The wrap direction is critical to ensure that the wi
>e does
>> > > > not squeeze out from under the terminal screw.
>> > > >
>> > > > One could also form an eyelet as shown in the video, and then tinned the
>> > > > copper wire to solidify the ring.
>> > > >
>> > > > The key is to ensure that the terminal screw cannot cut the wire while
>> > > > being tightened.
>> > > >
>> > > > .
>> > > > I would not have drilled the plastic to get to the torx screws in the
>> > > > plastic handle. One can get torx screwdriver inserts with 6" shafts.
>> > > >
>> > > > I could not see how the cable was clamped on entry to the saw handle, bu
>
>> > > > this area is critical.
>> > > >
>> > > > Joe Gwinn
>> > >
>> > > BTW...I also don't like the fact that he used a 3 prong plug and cut the
>> > > ground wire off on the inside, saying that using the 3 prong plug "doesn't
>> > > hurt".
>> > >
>> > > I don't like doing that more on principle than on any actual "danger". I
>> > > don´t like giving the user the impression that a device is wired in a ce
>tain
>> > > manner (e.g. equipment ground is present) when in reality it is wired diff
>rently.
>> >
>> > I agree. I would have connected the green to the motor frame somehow. But
>> > double-insulated does work anyway, so the safety is not reduced.
>> >
>> > My lathe cane with floating green, and that lathe would give a tickle due to
>> > leakage from motor windings to motor frame, and thus to lathe cabinet. The
>> > short-term fix was a green ground wire (with ring terminals at both ends)
>> > from cabinet to electrical safety ground. Wen I rewired the lathe, I
>> > discovered the floating green, and fixed the problem.
>> >
>> > But I will say that the guy in the video probably is not an electrical guy,
>> > and so would not know what to do with that wire if he could not find a green
>> > terminal for it.
>> >
>> > > I don't think that that tool would be approved by OSHA for use on a job
>> > > site if they knew that the ground wire was not being used.
>> >
>> > Well, actually it would have been approved when it came out, and also today.
>> > Double-insulated is still OK by UL.
>>
>> The thing I wonder about is how it got the three-wire cord to begin
>> with. I suspect that the cord that was on it was not the original.
>
>The fellow making the repair had made that repair some years earlier.

Not the _plug_, the _cord_. He did not say that he had replaced the
_cord_ earlier, or if he did I missed it.

k

in reply to DerbyDad03 on 21/12/2018 8:04 AM

22/12/2018 12:34 AM

On Fri, 21 Dec 2018 13:56:57 -0500, Clare Snyder <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On Fri, 21 Dec 2018 13:31:34 -0500, J. Clarke
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 21 Dec 2018 13:24:03 -0500, Joseph Gwinn
>><[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>On Dec 21, 2018, DerbyDad03 wrote
>>>(in article<[email protected]>):
>>>
>>>> On Friday, December 21, 2018 at 11:52:22 AM UTC-5, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
>>>> > On Dec 21, 2018, DerbyDad03 wrote
>>>> > (in article<[email protected]>):
>>>> >
>>>> > > Keeping this relevant to the wRec, the following video shows us how to
>>>> > > replace
>>>> > > the power cord on a circular saw.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > If you start at 4:30, you will see a technique for creating a "ring
>>>> > > connector"
>>>> > > from the bare power cord wires. What do think of this technique?
>>>> > >
>>>> > > <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61e5xG4kqXE>
>>>> > >
>>>> > > I have some issues with some of the other things he says and does in the
>>>> > > video, but this question is mainly about the connection method he uses.
>>>> >
>>>> > The proper method is to crimp a ring crimp terminal onto the wires, if there
>>>> > is space -- which looks questionable in this case.
>
>The "eylet" procedure he uses is not uncommon - but to do it ptoperly
>he should solder the loop

*NOT* a good idea. Soldering the loop will put all the bending and
vibration stress at the point where the solder ends. The wire will
work-harden at that point.

CS

Clare Snyder

in reply to [email protected] on 22/12/2018 12:34 AM

22/12/2018 11:44 PM

On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 21:50:11 -0500, J. Clarke
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 20:45:33 -0500, Clare Snyder <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 16:30:47 -0500, J. Clarke
>><[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>>
>>>>Except in the case of surface mount components solder should NEVER be
>>>>the primary connection. All soldered joints should be "mechanically
>>>>secure" before soldering. In other words, crimp AND solder, or twist
>>>>AND solder. On battery cables you crimp to make the electrical and
>>>>mechanical connection, then you solder to seal and protect the joint.
>>>>(gas tight joint - which is also the aim of a properly crimped (or
>>>>"crimp-welded" electrical connector.
>>>> Even then, if the soldered cable end came loose, you had other
>>>>problems - like a loose or corroded bolt-on connection that caused the
>>>>connection to heat up. A properly connected and soldered cable end
>>>>does NOT heat up enouigh to melt the solder.
>>>
>>>The problem with that statement is "properly connected and soldered".
>>>If it's "properly connected" it doesn't need solder and if it's
>>>soldered you can't tell if it's being held together by the "proper
>>>connection" or by the solder. In any case, it was a Volvo cable that
>>>came on the car, the car was bought new, so if you have a problem with
>>>its manufacture don't point fingers at _me_, point them at Volvo.
>>
>> Never seen a soldered battery cable from the factory on ANY Volvo.
>>540, 122, 240 or P1800 series
>>>
>>>Note, Swedes must have mad driving skills--I've had two Volvos and
>>>they were both horrible winter cars. Got stuck at the drop of a hat,
>>>didn't like to start, the heater froze on one (not the coolant in the
>>>heater core, the _fan_ managed to get full of ice, freeze, and burn
>>>out the motor).
>>
>>Where are you driving?? The Volvo was no worse than - and in many
>>cases much better than - any other compact or midsized rear wheel
>>drive vehicle in the winter handling department
>
>Ohio, Connecticut, points in between. And I did not have near as much
>trouble in the winter with a Lincoln Town Car, Toyota Supra, or
>Corvette as I did with the Volvos. None of those struggled to get up
>the hill on the way to work and all of them started first time every
>time. Hell, there were days when I rode my motorcycle to work because
>the Volvo wouldn't move (not wouldn't start, wouldn't _move_--there
>was a half an inch of ice on the parking lot and it couldn't manage to
>climb up on top of it).
A continental is a TANK, not a compact or mid-size - and your supra
(talking second or third gen) outweighed the Volvo significantly and
most likely also had limited slip. What tires did yhou have on the
Volvo? and what model Volvo?.. If you drove a motorcycle when you
couldn't move with a Volvo you've got ROCKS in your head - and below
your belt.

JC

J. Clarke

in reply to DerbyDad03 on 21/12/2018 8:04 AM

21/12/2018 1:31 PM

On Fri, 21 Dec 2018 13:24:03 -0500, Joseph Gwinn
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Dec 21, 2018, DerbyDad03 wrote
>(in article<[email protected]>):
>
>> On Friday, December 21, 2018 at 11:52:22 AM UTC-5, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
>> > On Dec 21, 2018, DerbyDad03 wrote
>> > (in article<[email protected]>):
>> >
>> > > Keeping this relevant to the wRec, the following video shows us how to
>> > > replace
>> > > the power cord on a circular saw.
>> > >
>> > > If you start at 4:30, you will see a technique for creating a "ring
>> > > connector"
>> > > from the bare power cord wires. What do think of this technique?
>> > >
>> > > <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61e5xG4kqXE>
>> > >
>> > > I have some issues with some of the other things he says and does in the
>> > > video, but this question is mainly about the connection method he uses.
>> >
>> > The proper method is to crimp a ring crimp terminal onto the wires, if there
>> > is space -- which looks questionable in this case.
>> >
>> > In the old days, manufacturers crimped a hollow brass eyelet around the
>> > stranded wire, creating a solid metal ring, but I have not seen that in
>> > ages,
>> > and it wasn´t something that one could afford to do at home anyway.
>> >
>> > Failing that, I twist the copper strands into a solid bundle and tin the
>> > bundle with liquid rosin flux and radio solder, making a solid wire. This is
>> > bent around the terminal screw in the direction of tightening, and the screw
>> > is tightened. The wrap direction is critical to ensure that the wire does
>> > not
>> > squeeze out from under the terminal screw.
>> >
>> > One could also form an eyelet as shown in the video, and then tinned the
>> > copper wire to solidify the ring.
>> >
>> > The key is to ensure that thge terminal screw cannot cut the wire while
>> > being
>> > tightened.
>> >
>> > .
>> > I would not have drilled the plastic to get to the torx screws in the
>> > plastic
>> > handle. One can get torx screwdriver inserts with 6" shafts.
>> >
>> > I could not see how the cable was clamped on entry to the saw handle, but
>> > this area is critical.
>> >
>> > Joe Gwinn
>>
>> BTW...I also don't like the fact that he used a 3 prong plug and cut the
>> ground wire off on the inside, saying that using the 3 prong plug "doesn't
>> hurt".
>>
>> I don't like doing that more on principle than on any actual "danger". I don't
>> like giving the user the impression that a device is wired in a certain manner
>> (e.g. equipment ground is present) when in reality it is wired differently.
>
>I agree. I would have connected the green to the motor frame somehow. But
>double-insulated does work anyway, so the safety is not reduced.
>
>My lathe cane with floating green, and that lathe would give a tickle due to
>leakage from motor windings to motor frame, and thus to lathe cabinet. The
>short-tern fix was a green ground wite (with ring terminals at both ends)
>from cabinet to electrical safety ground. Wen I rewired the lathe, I
>discovered the floating green, and fixed the problem.
>
>But I will say that the guy in the video probably is not an electrical guy,
>and so would not know what to do with that wire if he could not find a green
>terminal for it.
>
>> I don't think that that tool would be approved by OSHA for use on a job site
>> if they knew that the ground wire was not being used.
>
>Well, actually it would have been approved when it came out, and also today.
>Double-insulated is still OK by UL.

The thing I wonder about is how it got the three-wire cord to begin
with. I suspect that the cord that was on it was not the original.

CS

Clare Snyder

in reply to J. Clarke on 21/12/2018 1:31 PM

22/12/2018 8:48 PM

On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 14:55:04 -0600, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On 12/22/18 1:34 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
>> On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 13:26:58 -0600, Markem <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 12:49:21 -0600, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 12/22/18 12:38 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>>> On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 13:11:47 -0500, Clare Snyder <[email protected]>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 11:48:54 -0500, Joseph Gwinn
>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Dec 22, 2018, [email protected] wrote
>>>>>>> (in article<[email protected]>):
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Fri, 21 Dec 2018 13:56:57 -0500, Clare Snyder<[email protected]>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 21 Dec 2018 13:31:34 -0500, J. Clarke
>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 21 Dec 2018 13:24:03 -0500, Joseph Gwinn
>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Dec 21, 2018, DerbyDad03 wrote
>>>>>>>>>>> (in article<[email protected]>):
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Friday, December 21, 2018 at 11:52:22 AM UTC-5, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Dec 21, 2018, DerbyDad03 wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>>> (in article<[email protected]>):
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Keeping this relevant to the wRec, the following video shows us how to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> replace
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the power cord on a circular saw.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you start at 4:30, you will see a technique for creating a "ring
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> connector"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from the bare power cord wires. What do think of this technique?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61e5xG4kqXE>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have some issues with some of the other things he says and does in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> video, but this question is mainly about the connection method he uses.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The proper method is to crimp a ring crimp terminal onto the wires, if
>>>>>>>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>>>>>>> is space -- which looks questionable in this case.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The "eylet" procedure he uses is not uncommon - but to do it ptoperly
>>>>>>>>> he should solder the loop
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> *NOT* a good idea. Soldering the loop will put all the bending and
>>>>>>>> vibration stress at the point where the solder ends. The wire will
>>>>>>>> work-harden at that point.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Only if one has not secured the cable at the entry point, as discussed
>>>>>>> upthread.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have been doing this for decades, and have never had this problem.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If the assembly was going to undergo military-level vibration testing, then
>>>>>>> no soldering - must be crimped.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Joe Gwinn
>>>>>> As in aviation repairs - where "soldered connections MUST be
>>>>>> supported" - which is generally interpreted as "crimp only"
>>>>>
>>>>> There's another issue with solder on connections that carry
>>>>> significant power--heat it up and solder melts. I ran into this with
>>>>> the ground cable on a Volvo once. Took me the longest time to figure
>>>>> it out--when the weather was warm the car would start fine, when it
>>>>> was cold it wouldn't, but when I checked things the battery and cables
>>>>> were fine. Wasn't until I noticed something smoking one day that I
>>>>> figured out that it was the soldered-on ground clamp that most of the
>>>>> solder had run out of so there wasn't much contact but enough that a
>>>>> meter showed low resistance. Had a connector one crimped on and the
>>>>> problem went away.
>>>>>
>>>>> Admittedly this is less likely to be an issue with a saw but it's
>>>>> still worth bearing in mind. There's a reason NEC requires pressure
>>>>> connectors and not solder.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> What the heck kind of solder did you use?
>>>> Isn't the melting point of common solder up near 350 degrees?
>>>
>>> Most wire solder for electronics around 700 F iron is used, solder
>>> paste 185 C and 170 C ( for two sided boards that are soldered ).
>>> Plumbing solder not sure.
>>
>> Except in the case of surface mount components solder should NEVER be
>> the primary connection. All soldered joints should be "mechanically
>> secure" before soldering. In other words, crimp AND solder, or twist
>> AND solder. On battery cables you crimp to make the electrical and
>> mechanical connection, then you solder to seal and protect the joint.
>> (gas tight joint - which is also the aim of a properly crimped (or
>> "crimp-welded" electrical connector.
>> Even then, if the soldered cable end came loose, you had other
>> problems - like a loose or corroded bolt-on connection that caused the
>> connection to heat up. A properly connected and soldered cable end
>> does NOT heat up enouigh to melt the solder.
>>
>
>The only thing I was thinking was a loose connection that would cause
>arcing.
>That could certainly melt... and weld. :-)
And it could destroy a crimped connection too. My bet is a loose
connection overheated the crimped connectionand it let go - with no
solder involved.

CS

Clare Snyder

in reply to J. Clarke on 21/12/2018 1:31 PM

22/12/2018 8:45 PM

On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 16:30:47 -0500, J. Clarke
<[email protected]> wrote:

>>
>>Except in the case of surface mount components solder should NEVER be
>>the primary connection. All soldered joints should be "mechanically
>>secure" before soldering. In other words, crimp AND solder, or twist
>>AND solder. On battery cables you crimp to make the electrical and
>>mechanical connection, then you solder to seal and protect the joint.
>>(gas tight joint - which is also the aim of a properly crimped (or
>>"crimp-welded" electrical connector.
>> Even then, if the soldered cable end came loose, you had other
>>problems - like a loose or corroded bolt-on connection that caused the
>>connection to heat up. A properly connected and soldered cable end
>>does NOT heat up enouigh to melt the solder.
>
>The problem with that statement is "properly connected and soldered".
>If it's "properly connected" it doesn't need solder and if it's
>soldered you can't tell if it's being held together by the "proper
>connection" or by the solder. In any case, it was a Volvo cable that
>came on the car, the car was bought new, so if you have a problem with
>its manufacture don't point fingers at _me_, point them at Volvo.

Never seen a soldered battery cable from the factory on ANY Volvo.
540, 122, 240 or P1800 series
>
>Note, Swedes must have mad driving skills--I've had two Volvos and
>they were both horrible winter cars. Got stuck at the drop of a hat,
>didn't like to start, the heater froze on one (not the coolant in the
>heater core, the _fan_ managed to get full of ice, freeze, and burn
>out the motor).

Where are you driving?? The Volvo was no worse than - and in many
cases much better than - any other compact or midsized rear wheel
drive vehicle in the winter handling department

JC

J. Clarke

in reply to J. Clarke on 21/12/2018 1:31 PM

22/12/2018 9:54 PM

On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 20:48:47 -0500, Clare Snyder <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 14:55:04 -0600, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>
>>On 12/22/18 1:34 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
>>> On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 13:26:58 -0600, Markem <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 12:49:21 -0600, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 12/22/18 12:38 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>>>> On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 13:11:47 -0500, Clare Snyder <[email protected]>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 11:48:54 -0500, Joseph Gwinn
>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Dec 22, 2018, [email protected] wrote
>>>>>>>> (in article<[email protected]>):
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 21 Dec 2018 13:56:57 -0500, Clare Snyder<[email protected]>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 21 Dec 2018 13:31:34 -0500, J. Clarke
>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 21 Dec 2018 13:24:03 -0500, Joseph Gwinn
>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Dec 21, 2018, DerbyDad03 wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>> (in article<[email protected]>):
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Friday, December 21, 2018 at 11:52:22 AM UTC-5, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Dec 21, 2018, DerbyDad03 wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (in article<[email protected]>):
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Keeping this relevant to the wRec, the following video shows us how to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> replace
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the power cord on a circular saw.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you start at 4:30, you will see a technique for creating a "ring
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> connector"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from the bare power cord wires. What do think of this technique?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61e5xG4kqXE>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have some issues with some of the other things he says and does in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> video, but this question is mainly about the connection method he uses.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The proper method is to crimp a ring crimp terminal onto the wires, if
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is space -- which looks questionable in this case.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The "eylet" procedure he uses is not uncommon - but to do it ptoperly
>>>>>>>>>> he should solder the loop
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> *NOT* a good idea. Soldering the loop will put all the bending and
>>>>>>>>> vibration stress at the point where the solder ends. The wire will
>>>>>>>>> work-harden at that point.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Only if one has not secured the cable at the entry point, as discussed
>>>>>>>> upthread.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I have been doing this for decades, and have never had this problem.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If the assembly was going to undergo military-level vibration testing, then
>>>>>>>> no soldering - must be crimped.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Joe Gwinn
>>>>>>> As in aviation repairs - where "soldered connections MUST be
>>>>>>> supported" - which is generally interpreted as "crimp only"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There's another issue with solder on connections that carry
>>>>>> significant power--heat it up and solder melts. I ran into this with
>>>>>> the ground cable on a Volvo once. Took me the longest time to figure
>>>>>> it out--when the weather was warm the car would start fine, when it
>>>>>> was cold it wouldn't, but when I checked things the battery and cables
>>>>>> were fine. Wasn't until I noticed something smoking one day that I
>>>>>> figured out that it was the soldered-on ground clamp that most of the
>>>>>> solder had run out of so there wasn't much contact but enough that a
>>>>>> meter showed low resistance. Had a connector one crimped on and the
>>>>>> problem went away.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Admittedly this is less likely to be an issue with a saw but it's
>>>>>> still worth bearing in mind. There's a reason NEC requires pressure
>>>>>> connectors and not solder.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> What the heck kind of solder did you use?
>>>>> Isn't the melting point of common solder up near 350 degrees?
>>>>
>>>> Most wire solder for electronics around 700 F iron is used, solder
>>>> paste 185 C and 170 C ( for two sided boards that are soldered ).
>>>> Plumbing solder not sure.
>>>
>>> Except in the case of surface mount components solder should NEVER be
>>> the primary connection. All soldered joints should be "mechanically
>>> secure" before soldering. In other words, crimp AND solder, or twist
>>> AND solder. On battery cables you crimp to make the electrical and
>>> mechanical connection, then you solder to seal and protect the joint.
>>> (gas tight joint - which is also the aim of a properly crimped (or
>>> "crimp-welded" electrical connector.
>>> Even then, if the soldered cable end came loose, you had other
>>> problems - like a loose or corroded bolt-on connection that caused the
>>> connection to heat up. A properly connected and soldered cable end
>>> does NOT heat up enouigh to melt the solder.
>>>
>>
>>The only thing I was thinking was a loose connection that would cause
>>arcing.
>>That could certainly melt... and weld. :-)
> And it could destroy a crimped connection too. My bet is a loose
>connection overheated the crimped connectionand it let go - with no
>solder involved.

Nope. There was no sign of a crimp. There was a fitting that
appeared to be die-cast--trying to crimp it would likely have busted
it. It had a hole in it. There was a cable that was by that time a
loose sliding fit in the hole. The cable would slide in and out,
there was nothing holding it except solder and the solder was mostly
gone.

As for being loose, I had to use a breaker bar to get the damned thing
off.

Sorry, but your apologetics for soldered joints are falling on deaf
ears here.

k

in reply to DerbyDad03 on 21/12/2018 8:04 AM

22/12/2018 10:38 AM

On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 04:56:43 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Saturday, December 22, 2018 at 12:27:23 AM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Fri, 21 Dec 2018 09:13:14 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >On Friday, December 21, 2018 at 11:52:22 AM UTC-5, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
>> >> On Dec 21, 2018, DerbyDad03 wrote
>> >> (in article<[email protected]>):
>> >>
>> >> > Keeping this relevant to the wRec, the following video shows us how to replace
>> >> > the power cord on a circular saw.
>> >> >
>> >> > If you start at 4:30, you will see a technique for creating a "ring connector"
>> >> > from the bare power cord wires. What do think of this technique?
>> >> >
>> >> > <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61e5xG4kqXE>
>> >> >
>> >> > I have some issues with some of the other things he says and does in the
>> >> > video, but this question is mainly about the connection method he uses.
>> >>
>> >> The proper method is to crimp a ring crimp terminal onto the wires, if there
>> >> is space -- which looks questionable in this case.
>> >>
>> >> In the old days, manufacturers crimped a hollow brass eyelet around the
>> >> stranded wire, creating a solid metal ring, but I have not seen that in ages,
>> >> and it wasn´t something that one could afford to do at home anyway.
>> >>
>> >> Failing that, I twist the copper strands into a solid bundle and tin the
>> >> bundle with liquid rosin flux and radio solder, making a solid wire. This is
>> >> bent around the terminal screw in the direction of tightening, and the screw
>> >> is tightened. The wrap direction is critical to ensure that the wire does not
>> >> squeeze out from under the terminal screw.
>> >>
>> >> One could also form an eyelet as shown in the video, and then tinned the
>> >> copper wire to solidify the ring.
>> >>
>> >> The key is to ensure that thge terminal screw cannot cut the wire while being
>> >> tightened.
>> >>
>> >> .
>> >> I would not have drilled the plastic to get to the torx screws in the plastic
>> >> handle. One can get torx screwdriver inserts with 6" shafts.
>> >>
>> >> I could not see how the cable was clamped on entry to the saw handle, but
>> >> this area is critical.
>> >>
>> >> Joe Gwinn
>> >
>> >BTW...I also don't like the fact that he used a 3 prong plug and cut the
>> >ground wire off on the inside, saying that using the 3 prong plug "doesn't
>> >hurt".
>> >
>> >I don't like doing that more on principle than on any actual "danger". I don't
>> >like giving the user the impression that a device is wired in a certain manner
>> >(e.g. equipment ground is present) when in reality it is wired differently.
>>
>> +1
>>
>> >I don't think that that tool would be approved by OSHA for use on a job site
>> >if they knew that the ground wire was not being used.
>>
>> Years back, one of our techs was required by industrial safety to add
>> a 3-prong cordset to a plastic wall clock. I asked what he did with
>> the green wire. "Connected it to the case, of course." The inspector
>> was happy.
>
>That's what happens when they hire safety personnel with no actual safety knowledge just so
>that they can check the "Hired Safety Personnel" box.

Or when people are told to follow the rules, rather than understand
the rules. BTW, this was in IBM.

k

in reply to [email protected] on 22/12/2018 10:38 AM

28/12/2018 11:55 PM

On Fri, 28 Dec 2018 08:18:05 -0500, Jack <[email protected]> wrote:

>On 12/27/2018 11:06 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Thu, 27 Dec 2018 09:06:18 -0500, Jack <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> On 12/23/2018 9:18 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 23 Dec 2018 16:51:30 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sunday, December 23, 2018 at 7:11:04 PM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>>> On Sun, 23 Dec 2018 07:42:42 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Saturday, December 22, 2018 at 11:12:14 PM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 08:48:35 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, December 22, 2018 at 10:38:15 AM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 04:56:43 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, December 22, 2018 at 12:27:23 AM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 21 Dec 2018 09:13:14 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
>>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Friday, December 21, 2018 at 11:52:22 AM UTC-5, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Dec 21, 2018, DerbyDad03 wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (in article<[email protected]>):
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Keeping this relevant to the wRec, the following video shows us how to replace
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the power cord on a circular saw.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you start at 4:30, you will see a technique for creating a "ring connector"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from the bare power cord wires. What do think of this technique?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61e5xG4kqXE>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have some issues with some of the other things he says and does in the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> video, but this question is mainly about the connection method he uses.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The proper method is to crimp a ring crimp terminal onto the wires, if there
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is space -- which looks questionable in this case.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In the old days, manufacturers crimped a hollow brass eyelet around the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stranded wire, creating a solid metal ring, but I have not seen that in ages,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and it wasn´t something that one could afford to do at home anyway.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Failing that, I twist the copper strands into a solid bundle and tin the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bundle with liquid rosin flux and radio solder, making a solid wire. This is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bent around the terminal screw in the direction of tightening, and the screw
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is tightened. The wrap direction is critical to ensure that the wire does not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> squeeze out from under the terminal screw.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> One could also form an eyelet as shown in the video, and then tinned the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> copper wire to solidify the ring.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The key is to ensure that thge terminal screw cannot cut the wire while being
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tightened.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I would not have drilled the plastic to get to the torx screws in the plastic
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> handle. One can get torx screwdriver inserts with 6" shafts.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I could not see how the cable was clamped on entry to the saw handle, but
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this area is critical.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Joe Gwinn
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> BTW...I also don't like the fact that he used a 3 prong plug and cut the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ground wire off on the inside, saying that using the 3 prong plug "doesn't
>>>>>>>>>>>>> hurt".
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't like doing that more on principle than on any actual "danger". I don't
>>>>>>>>>>>>> like giving the user the impression that a device is wired in a certain manner
>>>>>>>>>>>>> (e.g. equipment ground is present) when in reality it is wired differently.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> +1
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't think that that tool would be approved by OSHA for use on a job site
>>>>>>>>>>>>> if they knew that the ground wire was not being used.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Years back, one of our techs was required by industrial safety to add
>>>>>>>>>>>> a 3-prong cordset to a plastic wall clock. I asked what he did with
>>>>>>>>>>>> the green wire. "Connected it to the case, of course." The inspector
>>>>>>>>>>>> was happy.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> That's what happens when they hire safety personnel with no actual safety knowledge just so
>>>>>>>>>>> that they can check the "Hired Safety Personnel" box.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Or when people are told to follow the rules, rather than understand
>>>>>>>>>> the rules. BTW, this was in IBM.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I used to work at a huge manufacturing/chemical plant. "Safety First" posters
>>>>>>>>> everywhere. Every department had a designated safety officer(s). Cash awards
>>>>>>>>> were given if a someone pointed out a safety issue.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> As an IT tech I used to go everywhere within the plant. I won numerous
>>>>>>>>> cash awards for pointing out safety issues but only after I had to convince
>>>>>>>>> the safety officer of that department that it was an issue. Sometimes I
>>>>>>>>> had to escalate the issue because the safety officer just didn't get the
>>>>>>>>> point. The lack of common sense was really scary.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That's another good one. They wouldn't pay engineers for safety, or
>>>>>>>> other suggestions but they would pay hourly staff. I'd just point out
>>>>>>>> problems to my technician and he'd collect the easy money. Often it
>>>>>>>> was stupid things like a sign blocking an Exit sign, and such. The
>>>>>>>> safety people would get pissed-off because they were supposed to catch
>>>>>>>> such things.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This suggestion wasn't specifically a safety issue, but I got paid on it
>>>>>>> through the corporate Suggestion System that paid for suggestions that resulted
>>>>>>> in a money saving process change.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Same deal for "improvement" suggestions. Engineers needed not apply,
>>>>>> so I just gave the ideas to my technician(s). I wasn't going to get
>>>>>> paid for them so why not reward the guys doing my work for me. ;-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My company was already in trouble for possible ground contamination in the
>>>>>>> surrounding neighborhood - including the ground under the grade school
>>>>>>> that was named for the company. One morning I was walking from the parking
>>>>>>> to the security gate, a walk that took me down a public street along the
>>>>>>> plant's fence. As I looked through the fence and down a road between 2
>>>>>>> buildings, I saw foam bubbling up out of a sewer, breaking up into pieces
>>>>>>> 2-3 feet across and blowing down the road. Some of the bubble masses were
>>>>>>> settling right up against the fence. Definitely not a good look for a company
>>>>>>> already in trouble with the EPA.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ouch! That's a real bad look, even if it was Lucy's washing machine.
>>>>>> We had loads of groundwater pollution (no matter what people thought,
>>>>>> electronics is a very dirty business), cost millions, but I never got
>>>>>> involved in that stuff.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I had a friend who was in management for that part of the plant so I called
>>>>>>> him and asked him how I should report it. He told me that he would contact
>>>>>>> the proper department. He then called me a few days later and told me to
>>>>>>> put in a suggestion saying that the ABC department should be using anti-foaming
>>>>>>> agent in the XYZ discharge system. He told me to route the suggestion through
>>>>>>> his department. When I wrote up the suggestion, I added a few words about the
>>>>>>> "bad look, especially at this time". About a month later I got a check for $3K.
>>>>>>> That would be about $6.5K in today's dollars.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Apparently that "bad look" was worth preventing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Very cool! I'd think so! I remember one suggestion (*not* mine) that
>>>>>> was turned down at least three times before paying out almost $100K
>>>>>> (in the '70s). Turns out the person who reviewed suggestions was the
>>>>>> person who was responsible for that particular area. He didn't want
>>>>>> to admit that he'd missed that sort of savings. These programs are
>>>>>> good ideas but it has to be run right or they turn into jokes.
>>>>>
>>>>> The worst one I got hit with was a suggestion that was probably worth a $50K
>>>>> award (mid-80's) To keep it simple, let's call it a software modification.
>>>>>
>>>>> It would have saved an awful lot of money over time but the department said
>>>>> that they couldn't afford the cost of the upgrade. (short term thinking, which
>>>>> is what eventually put the company essentially out of business. Hint: Perhaps
>>>>> you remember a time before we all took pictures with cell phones?) Anyway,
>>>>> they thanked me for the suggestion but said they were not going to implement
>>>>> it.
>>>>>
>>>>> 3 years later that same department did a major upgrade and when it was done
>>>>> it looked exactly like what I had suggested. I contacted the suggestion
>>>>> department and they said that they would re-open the suggestion and send it
>>>>> back to the department to see if it warranted payment. The answer was "Yes,
>>>>> we did basically implement what he suggested, but it wasn't done because of
>>>>> his suggestion. An engineer within the department came up with the idea on
>>>>> his own, as part of job his responsibilities.
>>>>>
>>>>> So, I, an IT hardware technician who didn't even work for the department (they
>>>>> were one of my "internal customers") made a suggestion 3 years before one of
>>>>> their internal engineers (supposedly) came up with the same idea. At that time
>>>>> they had the money, so they implemented his *free* suggestion, not mine.
>>>>>
>>>>> I was not a happy camper for quite a while.
>>>>
>>>> Yep, like many such programs, if they're not going to be faithful to
>>>> the intent of the program the incentive is often the opposite of what
>>>> is desired. That's why I don't bother with any of the morale
>>>> enhancement programs, wherever I've worked. They always end up doing
>>>> the opposite, eventually.
>>>>
>>>> The HR department where I work now manages to do it right (wrong) out
>>>> of the chute. They have a "high-five" award, where you can give a
>>>> co-worker an award for helping you, or whatever. Build points and
>>>> exchange them for trinkets. I looked - nothing I want for anything
>>>> like what could be reasonably put together in a few years.
>>>>
>>>> Then they screwed the pooch further by making it mandatory or *you*
>>>> get dinged on your performance.
>>>>
>>>> They're also trying to motivate us to exercise, so give above points
>>>> for exercise, except that you have to link your smart watch (or
>>>> whatever) to their site. No thanks. They want groups to get together
>>>> to do a million steps. Hell, I do a million a month, myself, but I'm
>>>> not about to give them access to that information. I have had a bunch
>>>> of people ask me to join their groups, though. ;-)
>>>>
>>>> Then there is the "How are we feeling today <, children>?", weekly
>>>> morale survey.
>>>>
>>>> "Come on, people, this is a job and we get paid well to do what we do
>>>> and get treated pretty well in the mean time. Isn't that enough?"
>>>> Yeah, such BS really turns me off.
>>>>
>>> What turns me off is people too freakin' lazy (or dumb, or ignorant) to
>>> trim 6 pages of non-relevant crap to get to their point.
>>
>> What pisses me off a whiney asshole Usenet trolls.
>>
>--1

-(-1) == +1

You're such a nice guy. Thank you!

k

in reply to [email protected] on 22/12/2018 10:38 AM

27/12/2018 8:40 PM

On Thu, 27 Dec 2018 13:30:22 -0600, Markem <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On Thu, 27 Dec 2018 11:06:38 -0500, [email protected] wrote:
>
>>What pisses me off a whiney asshole Usenet trolls.

I'm happy that you agree.

Jj

Jack

in reply to [email protected] on 22/12/2018 10:38 AM

30/12/2018 9:26 AM

On 12/28/2018 11:55 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Fri, 28 Dec 2018 08:18:05 -0500, Jack <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On 12/27/2018 11:06 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>>> On Thu, 27 Dec 2018 09:06:18 -0500, Jack <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 12/23/2018 9:18 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 23 Dec 2018 16:51:30 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sunday, December 23, 2018 at 7:11:04 PM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sun, 23 Dec 2018 07:42:42 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Saturday, December 22, 2018 at 11:12:14 PM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 08:48:35 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, December 22, 2018 at 10:38:15 AM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 04:56:43 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, December 22, 2018 at 12:27:23 AM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 21 Dec 2018 09:13:14 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Friday, December 21, 2018 at 11:52:22 AM UTC-5, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Dec 21, 2018, DerbyDad03 wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (in article<[email protected]>):
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Keeping this relevant to the wRec, the following video shows us how to replace
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the power cord on a circular saw.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you start at 4:30, you will see a technique for creating a "ring connector"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from the bare power cord wires. What do think of this technique?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61e5xG4kqXE>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have some issues with some of the other things he says and does in the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> video, but this question is mainly about the connection method he uses.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The proper method is to crimp a ring crimp terminal onto the wires, if there
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is space -- which looks questionable in this case.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In the old days, manufacturers crimped a hollow brass eyelet around the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stranded wire, creating a solid metal ring, but I have not seen that in ages,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and it wasn´t something that one could afford to do at home anyway.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Failing that, I twist the copper strands into a solid bundle and tin the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bundle with liquid rosin flux and radio solder, making a solid wire. This is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bent around the terminal screw in the direction of tightening, and the screw
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is tightened. The wrap direction is critical to ensure that the wire does not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> squeeze out from under the terminal screw.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> One could also form an eyelet as shown in the video, and then tinned the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> copper wire to solidify the ring.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The key is to ensure that thge terminal screw cannot cut the wire while being
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tightened.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I would not have drilled the plastic to get to the torx screws in the plastic
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> handle. One can get torx screwdriver inserts with 6" shafts.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I could not see how the cable was clamped on entry to the saw handle, but
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this area is critical.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Joe Gwinn
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BTW...I also don't like the fact that he used a 3 prong plug and cut the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ground wire off on the inside, saying that using the 3 prong plug "doesn't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hurt".
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't like doing that more on principle than on any actual "danger". I don't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like giving the user the impression that a device is wired in a certain manner
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (e.g. equipment ground is present) when in reality it is wired differently.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> +1
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't think that that tool would be approved by OSHA for use on a job site
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if they knew that the ground wire was not being used.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Years back, one of our techs was required by industrial safety to add
>>>>>>>>>>>>> a 3-prong cordset to a plastic wall clock. I asked what he did with
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the green wire. "Connected it to the case, of course." The inspector
>>>>>>>>>>>>> was happy.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> That's what happens when they hire safety personnel with no actual safety knowledge just so
>>>>>>>>>>>> that they can check the "Hired Safety Personnel" box.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Or when people are told to follow the rules, rather than understand
>>>>>>>>>>> the rules. BTW, this was in IBM.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I used to work at a huge manufacturing/chemical plant. "Safety First" posters
>>>>>>>>>> everywhere. Every department had a designated safety officer(s). Cash awards
>>>>>>>>>> were given if a someone pointed out a safety issue.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> As an IT tech I used to go everywhere within the plant. I won numerous
>>>>>>>>>> cash awards for pointing out safety issues but only after I had to convince
>>>>>>>>>> the safety officer of that department that it was an issue. Sometimes I
>>>>>>>>>> had to escalate the issue because the safety officer just didn't get the
>>>>>>>>>> point. The lack of common sense was really scary.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> That's another good one. They wouldn't pay engineers for safety, or
>>>>>>>>> other suggestions but they would pay hourly staff. I'd just point out
>>>>>>>>> problems to my technician and he'd collect the easy money. Often it
>>>>>>>>> was stupid things like a sign blocking an Exit sign, and such. The
>>>>>>>>> safety people would get pissed-off because they were supposed to catch
>>>>>>>>> such things.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This suggestion wasn't specifically a safety issue, but I got paid on it
>>>>>>>> through the corporate Suggestion System that paid for suggestions that resulted
>>>>>>>> in a money saving process change.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Same deal for "improvement" suggestions. Engineers needed not apply,
>>>>>>> so I just gave the ideas to my technician(s). I wasn't going to get
>>>>>>> paid for them so why not reward the guys doing my work for me. ;-)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> My company was already in trouble for possible ground contamination in the
>>>>>>>> surrounding neighborhood - including the ground under the grade school
>>>>>>>> that was named for the company. One morning I was walking from the parking
>>>>>>>> to the security gate, a walk that took me down a public street along the
>>>>>>>> plant's fence. As I looked through the fence and down a road between 2
>>>>>>>> buildings, I saw foam bubbling up out of a sewer, breaking up into pieces
>>>>>>>> 2-3 feet across and blowing down the road. Some of the bubble masses were
>>>>>>>> settling right up against the fence. Definitely not a good look for a company
>>>>>>>> already in trouble with the EPA.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ouch! That's a real bad look, even if it was Lucy's washing machine.
>>>>>>> We had loads of groundwater pollution (no matter what people thought,
>>>>>>> electronics is a very dirty business), cost millions, but I never got
>>>>>>> involved in that stuff.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I had a friend who was in management for that part of the plant so I called
>>>>>>>> him and asked him how I should report it. He told me that he would contact
>>>>>>>> the proper department. He then called me a few days later and told me to
>>>>>>>> put in a suggestion saying that the ABC department should be using anti-foaming
>>>>>>>> agent in the XYZ discharge system. He told me to route the suggestion through
>>>>>>>> his department. When I wrote up the suggestion, I added a few words about the
>>>>>>>> "bad look, especially at this time". About a month later I got a check for $3K.
>>>>>>>> That would be about $6.5K in today's dollars.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Apparently that "bad look" was worth preventing.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Very cool! I'd think so! I remember one suggestion (*not* mine) that
>>>>>>> was turned down at least three times before paying out almost $100K
>>>>>>> (in the '70s). Turns out the person who reviewed suggestions was the
>>>>>>> person who was responsible for that particular area. He didn't want
>>>>>>> to admit that he'd missed that sort of savings. These programs are
>>>>>>> good ideas but it has to be run right or they turn into jokes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The worst one I got hit with was a suggestion that was probably worth a $50K
>>>>>> award (mid-80's) To keep it simple, let's call it a software modification.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It would have saved an awful lot of money over time but the department said
>>>>>> that they couldn't afford the cost of the upgrade. (short term thinking, which
>>>>>> is what eventually put the company essentially out of business. Hint: Perhaps
>>>>>> you remember a time before we all took pictures with cell phones?) Anyway,
>>>>>> they thanked me for the suggestion but said they were not going to implement
>>>>>> it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 3 years later that same department did a major upgrade and when it was done
>>>>>> it looked exactly like what I had suggested. I contacted the suggestion
>>>>>> department and they said that they would re-open the suggestion and send it
>>>>>> back to the department to see if it warranted payment. The answer was "Yes,
>>>>>> we did basically implement what he suggested, but it wasn't done because of
>>>>>> his suggestion. An engineer within the department came up with the idea on
>>>>>> his own, as part of job his responsibilities.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So, I, an IT hardware technician who didn't even work for the department (they
>>>>>> were one of my "internal customers") made a suggestion 3 years before one of
>>>>>> their internal engineers (supposedly) came up with the same idea. At that time
>>>>>> they had the money, so they implemented his *free* suggestion, not mine.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I was not a happy camper for quite a while.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yep, like many such programs, if they're not going to be faithful to
>>>>> the intent of the program the incentive is often the opposite of what
>>>>> is desired. That's why I don't bother with any of the morale
>>>>> enhancement programs, wherever I've worked. They always end up doing
>>>>> the opposite, eventually.
>>>>>
>>>>> The HR department where I work now manages to do it right (wrong) out
>>>>> of the chute. They have a "high-five" award, where you can give a
>>>>> co-worker an award for helping you, or whatever. Build points and
>>>>> exchange them for trinkets. I looked - nothing I want for anything
>>>>> like what could be reasonably put together in a few years.
>>>>>
>>>>> Then they screwed the pooch further by making it mandatory or *you*
>>>>> get dinged on your performance.
>>>>>
>>>>> They're also trying to motivate us to exercise, so give above points
>>>>> for exercise, except that you have to link your smart watch (or
>>>>> whatever) to their site. No thanks. They want groups to get together
>>>>> to do a million steps. Hell, I do a million a month, myself, but I'm
>>>>> not about to give them access to that information. I have had a bunch
>>>>> of people ask me to join their groups, though. ;-)
>>>>>
>>>>> Then there is the "How are we feeling today <, children>?", weekly
>>>>> morale survey.
>>>>>
>>>>> "Come on, people, this is a job and we get paid well to do what we do
>>>>> and get treated pretty well in the mean time. Isn't that enough?"
>>>>> Yeah, such BS really turns me off.
>>>>>
>>>> What turns me off is people too freakin' lazy (or dumb, or ignorant) to
>>>> trim 6 pages of non-relevant crap to get to their point.
>>>
>>> What pisses me off a whiney asshole Usenet trolls.
>>>
>> --1
>
> -(-1) == +1
>
> You're such a nice guy. Thank you!
>
Yer welcome

--
Jack
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.
http://jbstein.com

k

in reply to DerbyDad03 on 21/12/2018 8:04 AM

23/12/2018 7:10 PM

On Sun, 23 Dec 2018 07:42:42 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Saturday, December 22, 2018 at 11:12:14 PM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 08:48:35 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >On Saturday, December 22, 2018 at 10:38:15 AM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
>> >> On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 04:56:43 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
>> >> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >On Saturday, December 22, 2018 at 12:27:23 AM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
>> >> >> On Fri, 21 Dec 2018 09:13:14 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
>> >> >> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >On Friday, December 21, 2018 at 11:52:22 AM UTC-5, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
>> >> >> >> On Dec 21, 2018, DerbyDad03 wrote
>> >> >> >> (in article<[email protected]>):
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> > Keeping this relevant to the wRec, the following video shows us how to replace
>> >> >> >> > the power cord on a circular saw.
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > If you start at 4:30, you will see a technique for creating a "ring connector"
>> >> >> >> > from the bare power cord wires. What do think of this technique?
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61e5xG4kqXE>
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > I have some issues with some of the other things he says and does in the
>> >> >> >> > video, but this question is mainly about the connection method he uses.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> The proper method is to crimp a ring crimp terminal onto the wires, if there
>> >> >> >> is space -- which looks questionable in this case.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> In the old days, manufacturers crimped a hollow brass eyelet around the
>> >> >> >> stranded wire, creating a solid metal ring, but I have not seen that in ages,
>> >> >> >> and it wasn´t something that one could afford to do at home anyway.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Failing that, I twist the copper strands into a solid bundle and tin the
>> >> >> >> bundle with liquid rosin flux and radio solder, making a solid wire. This is
>> >> >> >> bent around the terminal screw in the direction of tightening, and the screw
>> >> >> >> is tightened. The wrap direction is critical to ensure that the wire does not
>> >> >> >> squeeze out from under the terminal screw.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> One could also form an eyelet as shown in the video, and then tinned the
>> >> >> >> copper wire to solidify the ring.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> The key is to ensure that thge terminal screw cannot cut the wire while being
>> >> >> >> tightened.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> .
>> >> >> >> I would not have drilled the plastic to get to the torx screws in the plastic
>> >> >> >> handle. One can get torx screwdriver inserts with 6" shafts.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> I could not see how the cable was clamped on entry to the saw handle, but
>> >> >> >> this area is critical.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Joe Gwinn
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >BTW...I also don't like the fact that he used a 3 prong plug and cut the
>> >> >> >ground wire off on the inside, saying that using the 3 prong plug "doesn't
>> >> >> >hurt".
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >I don't like doing that more on principle than on any actual "danger". I don't
>> >> >> >like giving the user the impression that a device is wired in a certain manner
>> >> >> >(e.g. equipment ground is present) when in reality it is wired differently.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> +1
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >I don't think that that tool would be approved by OSHA for use on a job site
>> >> >> >if they knew that the ground wire was not being used.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Years back, one of our techs was required by industrial safety to add
>> >> >> a 3-prong cordset to a plastic wall clock. I asked what he did with
>> >> >> the green wire. "Connected it to the case, of course." The inspector
>> >> >> was happy.
>> >> >
>> >> >That's what happens when they hire safety personnel with no actual safety knowledge just so
>> >> >that they can check the "Hired Safety Personnel" box.
>> >>
>> >> Or when people are told to follow the rules, rather than understand
>> >> the rules. BTW, this was in IBM.
>> >
>> >I used to work at a huge manufacturing/chemical plant. "Safety First" posters
>> >everywhere. Every department had a designated safety officer(s). Cash awards
>> >were given if a someone pointed out a safety issue.
>> >
>> >As an IT tech I used to go everywhere within the plant. I won numerous
>> >cash awards for pointing out safety issues but only after I had to convince
>> >the safety officer of that department that it was an issue. Sometimes I
>> >had to escalate the issue because the safety officer just didn't get the
>> >point. The lack of common sense was really scary.
>>
>> That's another good one. They wouldn't pay engineers for safety, or
>> other suggestions but they would pay hourly staff. I'd just point out
>> problems to my technician and he'd collect the easy money. Often it
>> was stupid things like a sign blocking an Exit sign, and such. The
>> safety people would get pissed-off because they were supposed to catch
>> such things.
>
>This suggestion wasn't specifically a safety issue, but I got paid on it
>through the corporate Suggestion System that paid for suggestions that resulted
>in a money saving process change.

Same deal for "improvement" suggestions. Engineers needed not apply,
so I just gave the ideas to my technician(s). I wasn't going to get
paid for them so why not reward the guys doing my work for me. ;-)

>My company was already in trouble for possible ground contamination in the
>surrounding neighborhood - including the ground under the grade school
>that was named for the company. One morning I was walking from the parking
>to the security gate, a walk that took me down a public street along the
>plant's fence. As I looked through the fence and down a road between 2
>buildings, I saw foam bubbling up out of a sewer, breaking up into pieces
>2-3 feet across and blowing down the road. Some of the bubble masses were
>settling right up against the fence. Definitely not a good look for a company
>already in trouble with the EPA.

Ouch! That's a real bad look, even if it was Lucy's washing machine.
We had loads of groundwater pollution (no matter what people thought,
electronics is a very dirty business), cost millions, but I never got
involved in that stuff.
>
>I had a friend who was in management for that part of the plant so I called
>him and asked him how I should report it. He told me that he would contact
>the proper department. He then called me a few days later and told me to
>put in a suggestion saying that the ABC department should be using anti-foaming
>agent in the XYZ discharge system. He told me to route the suggestion through
>his department. When I wrote up the suggestion, I added a few words about the
>"bad look, especially at this time". About a month later I got a check for $3K.
>That would be about $6.5K in today's dollars.
>
>Apparently that "bad look" was worth preventing.

Very cool! I'd think so! I remember one suggestion (*not* mine) that
was turned down at least three times before paying out almost $100K
(in the '70s). Turns out the person who reviewed suggestions was the
person who was responsible for that particular area. He didn't want
to admit that he'd missed that sort of savings. These programs are
good ideas but it has to be run right or they turn into jokes.

Mm

-MIKE-

in reply to DerbyDad03 on 21/12/2018 8:04 AM

22/12/2018 12:49 PM

On 12/22/18 12:38 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
> On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 13:11:47 -0500, Clare Snyder <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 11:48:54 -0500, Joseph Gwinn
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> On Dec 22, 2018, [email protected] wrote
>>> (in article<[email protected]>):
>>>
>>>> On Fri, 21 Dec 2018 13:56:57 -0500, Clare Snyder<[email protected]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, 21 Dec 2018 13:31:34 -0500, J. Clarke
>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, 21 Dec 2018 13:24:03 -0500, Joseph Gwinn
>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Dec 21, 2018, DerbyDad03 wrote
>>>>>>> (in article<[email protected]>):
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Friday, December 21, 2018 at 11:52:22 AM UTC-5, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Dec 21, 2018, DerbyDad03 wrote
>>>>>>>>> (in article<[email protected]>):
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Keeping this relevant to the wRec, the following video shows us how to
>>>>>>>>>> replace
>>>>>>>>>> the power cord on a circular saw.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> If you start at 4:30, you will see a technique for creating a "ring
>>>>>>>>>> connector"
>>>>>>>>>> from the bare power cord wires. What do think of this technique?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61e5xG4kqXE>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I have some issues with some of the other things he says and does in
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> video, but this question is mainly about the connection method he uses.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The proper method is to crimp a ring crimp terminal onto the wires, if
>>>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>>> is space -- which looks questionable in this case.
>>>>>
>>>>> The "eylet" procedure he uses is not uncommon - but to do it ptoperly
>>>>> he should solder the loop
>>>>
>>>> *NOT* a good idea. Soldering the loop will put all the bending and
>>>> vibration stress at the point where the solder ends. The wire will
>>>> work-harden at that point.
>>>
>>> Only if one has not secured the cable at the entry point, as discussed
>>> upthread.
>>>
>>> I have been doing this for decades, and have never had this problem.
>>>
>>> If the assembly was going to undergo military-level vibration testing, then
>>> no soldering - must be crimped.
>>>
>>> Joe Gwinn
>> As in aviation repairs - where "soldered connections MUST be
>> supported" - which is generally interpreted as "crimp only"
>
> There's another issue with solder on connections that carry
> significant power--heat it up and solder melts. I ran into this with
> the ground cable on a Volvo once. Took me the longest time to figure
> it out--when the weather was warm the car would start fine, when it
> was cold it wouldn't, but when I checked things the battery and cables
> were fine. Wasn't until I noticed something smoking one day that I
> figured out that it was the soldered-on ground clamp that most of the
> solder had run out of so there wasn't much contact but enough that a
> meter showed low resistance. Had a connector one crimped on and the
> problem went away.
>
> Admittedly this is less likely to be an issue with a saw but it's
> still worth bearing in mind. There's a reason NEC requires pressure
> connectors and not solder.
>

What the heck kind of solder did you use?
Isn't the melting point of common solder up near 350 degrees?


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

k

in reply to DerbyDad03 on 21/12/2018 8:04 AM

22/12/2018 11:12 PM

On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 08:48:35 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Saturday, December 22, 2018 at 10:38:15 AM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 04:56:43 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >On Saturday, December 22, 2018 at 12:27:23 AM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
>> >> On Fri, 21 Dec 2018 09:13:14 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
>> >> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >On Friday, December 21, 2018 at 11:52:22 AM UTC-5, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
>> >> >> On Dec 21, 2018, DerbyDad03 wrote
>> >> >> (in article<[email protected]>):
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > Keeping this relevant to the wRec, the following video shows us how to replace
>> >> >> > the power cord on a circular saw.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > If you start at 4:30, you will see a technique for creating a "ring connector"
>> >> >> > from the bare power cord wires. What do think of this technique?
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61e5xG4kqXE>
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > I have some issues with some of the other things he says and does in the
>> >> >> > video, but this question is mainly about the connection method he uses.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> The proper method is to crimp a ring crimp terminal onto the wires, if there
>> >> >> is space -- which looks questionable in this case.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> In the old days, manufacturers crimped a hollow brass eyelet around the
>> >> >> stranded wire, creating a solid metal ring, but I have not seen that in ages,
>> >> >> and it wasn´t something that one could afford to do at home anyway.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Failing that, I twist the copper strands into a solid bundle and tin the
>> >> >> bundle with liquid rosin flux and radio solder, making a solid wire. This is
>> >> >> bent around the terminal screw in the direction of tightening, and the screw
>> >> >> is tightened. The wrap direction is critical to ensure that the wire does not
>> >> >> squeeze out from under the terminal screw.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> One could also form an eyelet as shown in the video, and then tinned the
>> >> >> copper wire to solidify the ring.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> The key is to ensure that thge terminal screw cannot cut the wire while being
>> >> >> tightened.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> .
>> >> >> I would not have drilled the plastic to get to the torx screws in the plastic
>> >> >> handle. One can get torx screwdriver inserts with 6" shafts.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I could not see how the cable was clamped on entry to the saw handle, but
>> >> >> this area is critical.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Joe Gwinn
>> >> >
>> >> >BTW...I also don't like the fact that he used a 3 prong plug and cut the
>> >> >ground wire off on the inside, saying that using the 3 prong plug "doesn't
>> >> >hurt".
>> >> >
>> >> >I don't like doing that more on principle than on any actual "danger". I don't
>> >> >like giving the user the impression that a device is wired in a certain manner
>> >> >(e.g. equipment ground is present) when in reality it is wired differently.
>> >>
>> >> +1
>> >>
>> >> >I don't think that that tool would be approved by OSHA for use on a job site
>> >> >if they knew that the ground wire was not being used.
>> >>
>> >> Years back, one of our techs was required by industrial safety to add
>> >> a 3-prong cordset to a plastic wall clock. I asked what he did with
>> >> the green wire. "Connected it to the case, of course." The inspector
>> >> was happy.
>> >
>> >That's what happens when they hire safety personnel with no actual safety knowledge just so
>> >that they can check the "Hired Safety Personnel" box.
>>
>> Or when people are told to follow the rules, rather than understand
>> the rules. BTW, this was in IBM.
>
>I used to work at a huge manufacturing/chemical plant. "Safety First" posters
>everywhere. Every department had a designated safety officer(s). Cash awards
>were given if a someone pointed out a safety issue.
>
>As an IT tech I used to go everywhere within the plant. I won numerous
>cash awards for pointing out safety issues but only after I had to convince
>the safety officer of that department that it was an issue. Sometimes I
>had to escalate the issue because the safety officer just didn't get the
>point. The lack of common sense was really scary.

That's another good one. They wouldn't pay engineers for safety, or
other suggestions but they would pay hourly staff. I'd just point out
problems to my technician and he'd collect the easy money. Often it
was stupid things like a sign blocking an Exit sign, and such. The
safety people would get pissed-off because they were supposed to catch
such things.

CS

Clare Snyder

in reply to DerbyDad03 on 21/12/2018 8:04 AM

22/12/2018 1:18 PM

On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 04:56:43 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
<[email protected]> wrote:
SNIPPED
>> >
>> >BTW...I also don't like the fact that he used a 3 prong plug and cut the
>> >ground wire off on the inside, saying that using the 3 prong plug "doesn't
>> >hurt".
>> >

I take more exception to his statement that the position of the
wires (black vs white) inside the tool doesn't matter. There is a
reason ALL double insulated devices have "polarized" plugs!

A 3 prong plug, if properly wired, plays the part of a "polarized
plug" by ensuring the neutral wire of the tool always finds the
neutral of the outlet - - -


That said - the PROPER polarized cord, correctly connected, is the
PROPER way to repair it.

What he did - with the exception of disregarding the "polarity" of the
cord was likely "safe" for home and personal use but would NOT pass on
a job-site.
>> >I don't like doing that more on principle than on any actual "danger". I don't
>> >like giving the user the impression that a device is wired in a certain manner
>> >(e.g. equipment ground is present) when in reality it is wired differently.
>>
>> +1
>>
>> >I don't think that that tool would be approved by OSHA for use on a job site
>> >if they knew that the ground wire was not being used.
>>
>> Years back, one of our techs was required by industrial safety to add
>> a 3-prong cordset to a plastic wall clock. I asked what he did with
>> the green wire. "Connected it to the case, of course." The inspector
>> was happy.
>
>That's what happens when they hire safety personnel with no actual safety knowledge just so
>that they can check the "Hired Safety Personnel" box.

k

in reply to DerbyDad03 on 21/12/2018 8:04 AM

22/12/2018 11:14 PM

On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 19:46:42 GMT, [email protected] (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

>DerbyDad03 <[email protected]> writes:
>>On Saturday, December 22, 2018 at 12:27:23 AM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote=
>>:
>
>>>=20
>>> Years back, one of our techs was required by industrial safety to add
>>> a 3-prong cordset to a plastic wall clock. I asked what he did with
>>> the green wire. "Connected it to the case, of course." The inspector
>>> was happy.
>>
>>That's what happens when they hire safety personnel with no actual safety k=
>>nowledge just so=20
>>that they can check the "Hired Safety Personnel" box.
>>
>
>Assuming the story is actually factual. It sounds more like
>a "I heard from someone who heard from someone" to me.

It is.

k

in reply to DerbyDad03 on 21/12/2018 8:04 AM

22/12/2018 12:27 AM

On Fri, 21 Dec 2018 09:13:14 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Friday, December 21, 2018 at 11:52:22 AM UTC-5, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
>> On Dec 21, 2018, DerbyDad03 wrote
>> (in article<[email protected]>):
>>
>> > Keeping this relevant to the wRec, the following video shows us how to replace
>> > the power cord on a circular saw.
>> >
>> > If you start at 4:30, you will see a technique for creating a "ring connector"
>> > from the bare power cord wires. What do think of this technique?
>> >
>> > <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61e5xG4kqXE>
>> >
>> > I have some issues with some of the other things he says and does in the
>> > video, but this question is mainly about the connection method he uses.
>>
>> The proper method is to crimp a ring crimp terminal onto the wires, if there
>> is space -- which looks questionable in this case.
>>
>> In the old days, manufacturers crimped a hollow brass eyelet around the
>> stranded wire, creating a solid metal ring, but I have not seen that in ages,
>> and it wasn´t something that one could afford to do at home anyway.
>>
>> Failing that, I twist the copper strands into a solid bundle and tin the
>> bundle with liquid rosin flux and radio solder, making a solid wire. This is
>> bent around the terminal screw in the direction of tightening, and the screw
>> is tightened. The wrap direction is critical to ensure that the wire does not
>> squeeze out from under the terminal screw.
>>
>> One could also form an eyelet as shown in the video, and then tinned the
>> copper wire to solidify the ring.
>>
>> The key is to ensure that thge terminal screw cannot cut the wire while being
>> tightened.
>>
>> .
>> I would not have drilled the plastic to get to the torx screws in the plastic
>> handle. One can get torx screwdriver inserts with 6" shafts.
>>
>> I could not see how the cable was clamped on entry to the saw handle, but
>> this area is critical.
>>
>> Joe Gwinn
>
>BTW...I also don't like the fact that he used a 3 prong plug and cut the
>ground wire off on the inside, saying that using the 3 prong plug "doesn't
>hurt".
>
>I don't like doing that more on principle than on any actual "danger". I don't
>like giving the user the impression that a device is wired in a certain manner
>(e.g. equipment ground is present) when in reality it is wired differently.

+1

>I don't think that that tool would be approved by OSHA for use on a job site
>if they knew that the ground wire was not being used.

Years back, one of our techs was required by industrial safety to add
a 3-prong cordset to a plastic wall clock. I asked what he did with
the green wire. "Connected it to the case, of course." The inspector
was happy.

JC

J. Clarke

in reply to [email protected] on 22/12/2018 12:27 AM

27/12/2018 11:10 AM

On Thu, 27 Dec 2018 09:06:18 -0500, Jack <[email protected]> wrote:

>On 12/23/2018 9:18 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Sun, 23 Dec 2018 16:51:30 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
>>
>> Yep, like many such programs, if they're not going to be faithful to
>> the intent of the program the incentive is often the opposite of what
>> is desired. That's why I don't bother with any of the morale
>> enhancement programs, wherever I've worked. They always end up doing
>> the opposite, eventually.
>>
>> The HR department where I work now manages to do it right (wrong) out
>> of the chute. They have a "high-five" award, where you can give a
>> co-worker an award for helping you, or whatever. Build points and
>> exchange them for trinkets. I looked - nothing I want for anything
>> like what could be reasonably put together in a few years.
>>
>> Then they screwed the pooch further by making it mandatory or *you*
>> get dinged on your performance.
>>
>> They're also trying to motivate us to exercise, so give above points
>> for exercise, except that you have to link your smart watch (or
>> whatever) to their site. No thanks. They want groups to get together
>> to do a million steps. Hell, I do a million a month, myself, but I'm
>> not about to give them access to that information. I have had a bunch
>> of people ask me to join their groups, though. ;-)
>>
>> Then there is the "How are we feeling today <, children>?", weekly
>> morale survey.
>>
>> "Come on, people, this is a job and we get paid well to do what we do
>> and get treated pretty well in the mean time. Isn't that enough?"
>> Yeah, such BS really turns me off.

FWIW, the place I work pays cash money for achieving fitness goals.
5000 steps a day, certified by a fitness tracker, for x number of
weeks (I forget how many) and they pay you 100 bucks. Get a
physical exam they pay the full price, no deductible, and give you a
hundred bucks. There are other incentives up to a total of 500 bucks a
year.

k

in reply to [email protected] on 22/12/2018 12:27 AM

27/12/2018 11:06 AM

On Thu, 27 Dec 2018 09:06:18 -0500, Jack <[email protected]> wrote:

>On 12/23/2018 9:18 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Sun, 23 Dec 2018 16:51:30 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sunday, December 23, 2018 at 7:11:04 PM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 23 Dec 2018 07:42:42 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Saturday, December 22, 2018 at 11:12:14 PM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>>> On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 08:48:35 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Saturday, December 22, 2018 at 10:38:15 AM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 04:56:43 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, December 22, 2018 at 12:27:23 AM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 21 Dec 2018 09:13:14 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Friday, December 21, 2018 at 11:52:22 AM UTC-5, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Dec 21, 2018, DerbyDad03 wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>> (in article<[email protected]>):
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Keeping this relevant to the wRec, the following video shows us how to replace
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the power cord on a circular saw.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you start at 4:30, you will see a technique for creating a "ring connector"
>>>>>>>>>>>>> from the bare power cord wires. What do think of this technique?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61e5xG4kqXE>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have some issues with some of the other things he says and does in the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> video, but this question is mainly about the connection method he uses.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The proper method is to crimp a ring crimp terminal onto the wires, if there
>>>>>>>>>>>> is space -- which looks questionable in this case.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> In the old days, manufacturers crimped a hollow brass eyelet around the
>>>>>>>>>>>> stranded wire, creating a solid metal ring, but I have not seen that in ages,
>>>>>>>>>>>> and it wasn´t something that one could afford to do at home anyway.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Failing that, I twist the copper strands into a solid bundle and tin the
>>>>>>>>>>>> bundle with liquid rosin flux and radio solder, making a solid wire. This is
>>>>>>>>>>>> bent around the terminal screw in the direction of tightening, and the screw
>>>>>>>>>>>> is tightened. The wrap direction is critical to ensure that the wire does not
>>>>>>>>>>>> squeeze out from under the terminal screw.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> One could also form an eyelet as shown in the video, and then tinned the
>>>>>>>>>>>> copper wire to solidify the ring.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The key is to ensure that thge terminal screw cannot cut the wire while being
>>>>>>>>>>>> tightened.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>>>>>> I would not have drilled the plastic to get to the torx screws in the plastic
>>>>>>>>>>>> handle. One can get torx screwdriver inserts with 6" shafts.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I could not see how the cable was clamped on entry to the saw handle, but
>>>>>>>>>>>> this area is critical.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Joe Gwinn
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> BTW...I also don't like the fact that he used a 3 prong plug and cut the
>>>>>>>>>>> ground wire off on the inside, saying that using the 3 prong plug "doesn't
>>>>>>>>>>> hurt".
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I don't like doing that more on principle than on any actual "danger". I don't
>>>>>>>>>>> like giving the user the impression that a device is wired in a certain manner
>>>>>>>>>>> (e.g. equipment ground is present) when in reality it is wired differently.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> +1
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I don't think that that tool would be approved by OSHA for use on a job site
>>>>>>>>>>> if they knew that the ground wire was not being used.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Years back, one of our techs was required by industrial safety to add
>>>>>>>>>> a 3-prong cordset to a plastic wall clock. I asked what he did with
>>>>>>>>>> the green wire. "Connected it to the case, of course." The inspector
>>>>>>>>>> was happy.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> That's what happens when they hire safety personnel with no actual safety knowledge just so
>>>>>>>>> that they can check the "Hired Safety Personnel" box.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Or when people are told to follow the rules, rather than understand
>>>>>>>> the rules. BTW, this was in IBM.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I used to work at a huge manufacturing/chemical plant. "Safety First" posters
>>>>>>> everywhere. Every department had a designated safety officer(s). Cash awards
>>>>>>> were given if a someone pointed out a safety issue.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As an IT tech I used to go everywhere within the plant. I won numerous
>>>>>>> cash awards for pointing out safety issues but only after I had to convince
>>>>>>> the safety officer of that department that it was an issue. Sometimes I
>>>>>>> had to escalate the issue because the safety officer just didn't get the
>>>>>>> point. The lack of common sense was really scary.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That's another good one. They wouldn't pay engineers for safety, or
>>>>>> other suggestions but they would pay hourly staff. I'd just point out
>>>>>> problems to my technician and he'd collect the easy money. Often it
>>>>>> was stupid things like a sign blocking an Exit sign, and such. The
>>>>>> safety people would get pissed-off because they were supposed to catch
>>>>>> such things.
>>>>>
>>>>> This suggestion wasn't specifically a safety issue, but I got paid on it
>>>>> through the corporate Suggestion System that paid for suggestions that resulted
>>>>> in a money saving process change.
>>>>
>>>> Same deal for "improvement" suggestions. Engineers needed not apply,
>>>> so I just gave the ideas to my technician(s). I wasn't going to get
>>>> paid for them so why not reward the guys doing my work for me. ;-)
>>>>
>>>>> My company was already in trouble for possible ground contamination in the
>>>>> surrounding neighborhood - including the ground under the grade school
>>>>> that was named for the company. One morning I was walking from the parking
>>>>> to the security gate, a walk that took me down a public street along the
>>>>> plant's fence. As I looked through the fence and down a road between 2
>>>>> buildings, I saw foam bubbling up out of a sewer, breaking up into pieces
>>>>> 2-3 feet across and blowing down the road. Some of the bubble masses were
>>>>> settling right up against the fence. Definitely not a good look for a company
>>>>> already in trouble with the EPA.
>>>>
>>>> Ouch! That's a real bad look, even if it was Lucy's washing machine.
>>>> We had loads of groundwater pollution (no matter what people thought,
>>>> electronics is a very dirty business), cost millions, but I never got
>>>> involved in that stuff.
>>>>>
>>>>> I had a friend who was in management for that part of the plant so I called
>>>>> him and asked him how I should report it. He told me that he would contact
>>>>> the proper department. He then called me a few days later and told me to
>>>>> put in a suggestion saying that the ABC department should be using anti-foaming
>>>>> agent in the XYZ discharge system. He told me to route the suggestion through
>>>>> his department. When I wrote up the suggestion, I added a few words about the
>>>>> "bad look, especially at this time". About a month later I got a check for $3K.
>>>>> That would be about $6.5K in today's dollars.
>>>>>
>>>>> Apparently that "bad look" was worth preventing.
>>>>
>>>> Very cool! I'd think so! I remember one suggestion (*not* mine) that
>>>> was turned down at least three times before paying out almost $100K
>>>> (in the '70s). Turns out the person who reviewed suggestions was the
>>>> person who was responsible for that particular area. He didn't want
>>>> to admit that he'd missed that sort of savings. These programs are
>>>> good ideas but it has to be run right or they turn into jokes.
>>>
>>> The worst one I got hit with was a suggestion that was probably worth a $50K
>>> award (mid-80's) To keep it simple, let's call it a software modification.
>>>
>>> It would have saved an awful lot of money over time but the department said
>>> that they couldn't afford the cost of the upgrade. (short term thinking, which
>>> is what eventually put the company essentially out of business. Hint: Perhaps
>>> you remember a time before we all took pictures with cell phones?) Anyway,
>>> they thanked me for the suggestion but said they were not going to implement
>>> it.
>>>
>>> 3 years later that same department did a major upgrade and when it was done
>>> it looked exactly like what I had suggested. I contacted the suggestion
>>> department and they said that they would re-open the suggestion and send it
>>> back to the department to see if it warranted payment. The answer was "Yes,
>>> we did basically implement what he suggested, but it wasn't done because of
>>> his suggestion. An engineer within the department came up with the idea on
>>> his own, as part of job his responsibilities.
>>>
>>> So, I, an IT hardware technician who didn't even work for the department (they
>>> were one of my "internal customers") made a suggestion 3 years before one of
>>> their internal engineers (supposedly) came up with the same idea. At that time
>>> they had the money, so they implemented his *free* suggestion, not mine.
>>>
>>> I was not a happy camper for quite a while.
>>
>> Yep, like many such programs, if they're not going to be faithful to
>> the intent of the program the incentive is often the opposite of what
>> is desired. That's why I don't bother with any of the morale
>> enhancement programs, wherever I've worked. They always end up doing
>> the opposite, eventually.
>>
>> The HR department where I work now manages to do it right (wrong) out
>> of the chute. They have a "high-five" award, where you can give a
>> co-worker an award for helping you, or whatever. Build points and
>> exchange them for trinkets. I looked - nothing I want for anything
>> like what could be reasonably put together in a few years.
>>
>> Then they screwed the pooch further by making it mandatory or *you*
>> get dinged on your performance.
>>
>> They're also trying to motivate us to exercise, so give above points
>> for exercise, except that you have to link your smart watch (or
>> whatever) to their site. No thanks. They want groups to get together
>> to do a million steps. Hell, I do a million a month, myself, but I'm
>> not about to give them access to that information. I have had a bunch
>> of people ask me to join their groups, though. ;-)
>>
>> Then there is the "How are we feeling today <, children>?", weekly
>> morale survey.
>>
>> "Come on, people, this is a job and we get paid well to do what we do
>> and get treated pretty well in the mean time. Isn't that enough?"
>> Yeah, such BS really turns me off.
>>
>What turns me off is people too freakin' lazy (or dumb, or ignorant) to
>trim 6 pages of non-relevant crap to get to their point.

What pisses me off a whiney asshole Usenet trolls.

Jj

Jack

in reply to [email protected] on 22/12/2018 12:27 AM

28/12/2018 8:18 AM

On 12/27/2018 11:06 AM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Thu, 27 Dec 2018 09:06:18 -0500, Jack <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On 12/23/2018 9:18 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>> On Sun, 23 Dec 2018 16:51:30 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sunday, December 23, 2018 at 7:11:04 PM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 23 Dec 2018 07:42:42 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Saturday, December 22, 2018 at 11:12:14 PM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 08:48:35 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Saturday, December 22, 2018 at 10:38:15 AM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 04:56:43 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, December 22, 2018 at 12:27:23 AM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 21 Dec 2018 09:13:14 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Friday, December 21, 2018 at 11:52:22 AM UTC-5, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Dec 21, 2018, DerbyDad03 wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>>> (in article<[email protected]>):
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Keeping this relevant to the wRec, the following video shows us how to replace
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the power cord on a circular saw.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you start at 4:30, you will see a technique for creating a "ring connector"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from the bare power cord wires. What do think of this technique?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61e5xG4kqXE>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have some issues with some of the other things he says and does in the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> video, but this question is mainly about the connection method he uses.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The proper method is to crimp a ring crimp terminal onto the wires, if there
>>>>>>>>>>>>> is space -- which looks questionable in this case.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> In the old days, manufacturers crimped a hollow brass eyelet around the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> stranded wire, creating a solid metal ring, but I have not seen that in ages,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and it wasn´t something that one could afford to do at home anyway.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Failing that, I twist the copper strands into a solid bundle and tin the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> bundle with liquid rosin flux and radio solder, making a solid wire. This is
>>>>>>>>>>>>> bent around the terminal screw in the direction of tightening, and the screw
>>>>>>>>>>>>> is tightened. The wrap direction is critical to ensure that the wire does not
>>>>>>>>>>>>> squeeze out from under the terminal screw.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> One could also form an eyelet as shown in the video, and then tinned the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> copper wire to solidify the ring.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The key is to ensure that thge terminal screw cannot cut the wire while being
>>>>>>>>>>>>> tightened.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I would not have drilled the plastic to get to the torx screws in the plastic
>>>>>>>>>>>>> handle. One can get torx screwdriver inserts with 6" shafts.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I could not see how the cable was clamped on entry to the saw handle, but
>>>>>>>>>>>>> this area is critical.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Joe Gwinn
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> BTW...I also don't like the fact that he used a 3 prong plug and cut the
>>>>>>>>>>>> ground wire off on the inside, saying that using the 3 prong plug "doesn't
>>>>>>>>>>>> hurt".
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't like doing that more on principle than on any actual "danger". I don't
>>>>>>>>>>>> like giving the user the impression that a device is wired in a certain manner
>>>>>>>>>>>> (e.g. equipment ground is present) when in reality it is wired differently.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> +1
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't think that that tool would be approved by OSHA for use on a job site
>>>>>>>>>>>> if they knew that the ground wire was not being used.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Years back, one of our techs was required by industrial safety to add
>>>>>>>>>>> a 3-prong cordset to a plastic wall clock. I asked what he did with
>>>>>>>>>>> the green wire. "Connected it to the case, of course." The inspector
>>>>>>>>>>> was happy.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> That's what happens when they hire safety personnel with no actual safety knowledge just so
>>>>>>>>>> that they can check the "Hired Safety Personnel" box.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Or when people are told to follow the rules, rather than understand
>>>>>>>>> the rules. BTW, this was in IBM.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I used to work at a huge manufacturing/chemical plant. "Safety First" posters
>>>>>>>> everywhere. Every department had a designated safety officer(s). Cash awards
>>>>>>>> were given if a someone pointed out a safety issue.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> As an IT tech I used to go everywhere within the plant. I won numerous
>>>>>>>> cash awards for pointing out safety issues but only after I had to convince
>>>>>>>> the safety officer of that department that it was an issue. Sometimes I
>>>>>>>> had to escalate the issue because the safety officer just didn't get the
>>>>>>>> point. The lack of common sense was really scary.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That's another good one. They wouldn't pay engineers for safety, or
>>>>>>> other suggestions but they would pay hourly staff. I'd just point out
>>>>>>> problems to my technician and he'd collect the easy money. Often it
>>>>>>> was stupid things like a sign blocking an Exit sign, and such. The
>>>>>>> safety people would get pissed-off because they were supposed to catch
>>>>>>> such things.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This suggestion wasn't specifically a safety issue, but I got paid on it
>>>>>> through the corporate Suggestion System that paid for suggestions that resulted
>>>>>> in a money saving process change.
>>>>>
>>>>> Same deal for "improvement" suggestions. Engineers needed not apply,
>>>>> so I just gave the ideas to my technician(s). I wasn't going to get
>>>>> paid for them so why not reward the guys doing my work for me. ;-)
>>>>>
>>>>>> My company was already in trouble for possible ground contamination in the
>>>>>> surrounding neighborhood - including the ground under the grade school
>>>>>> that was named for the company. One morning I was walking from the parking
>>>>>> to the security gate, a walk that took me down a public street along the
>>>>>> plant's fence. As I looked through the fence and down a road between 2
>>>>>> buildings, I saw foam bubbling up out of a sewer, breaking up into pieces
>>>>>> 2-3 feet across and blowing down the road. Some of the bubble masses were
>>>>>> settling right up against the fence. Definitely not a good look for a company
>>>>>> already in trouble with the EPA.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ouch! That's a real bad look, even if it was Lucy's washing machine.
>>>>> We had loads of groundwater pollution (no matter what people thought,
>>>>> electronics is a very dirty business), cost millions, but I never got
>>>>> involved in that stuff.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I had a friend who was in management for that part of the plant so I called
>>>>>> him and asked him how I should report it. He told me that he would contact
>>>>>> the proper department. He then called me a few days later and told me to
>>>>>> put in a suggestion saying that the ABC department should be using anti-foaming
>>>>>> agent in the XYZ discharge system. He told me to route the suggestion through
>>>>>> his department. When I wrote up the suggestion, I added a few words about the
>>>>>> "bad look, especially at this time". About a month later I got a check for $3K.
>>>>>> That would be about $6.5K in today's dollars.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Apparently that "bad look" was worth preventing.
>>>>>
>>>>> Very cool! I'd think so! I remember one suggestion (*not* mine) that
>>>>> was turned down at least three times before paying out almost $100K
>>>>> (in the '70s). Turns out the person who reviewed suggestions was the
>>>>> person who was responsible for that particular area. He didn't want
>>>>> to admit that he'd missed that sort of savings. These programs are
>>>>> good ideas but it has to be run right or they turn into jokes.
>>>>
>>>> The worst one I got hit with was a suggestion that was probably worth a $50K
>>>> award (mid-80's) To keep it simple, let's call it a software modification.
>>>>
>>>> It would have saved an awful lot of money over time but the department said
>>>> that they couldn't afford the cost of the upgrade. (short term thinking, which
>>>> is what eventually put the company essentially out of business. Hint: Perhaps
>>>> you remember a time before we all took pictures with cell phones?) Anyway,
>>>> they thanked me for the suggestion but said they were not going to implement
>>>> it.
>>>>
>>>> 3 years later that same department did a major upgrade and when it was done
>>>> it looked exactly like what I had suggested. I contacted the suggestion
>>>> department and they said that they would re-open the suggestion and send it
>>>> back to the department to see if it warranted payment. The answer was "Yes,
>>>> we did basically implement what he suggested, but it wasn't done because of
>>>> his suggestion. An engineer within the department came up with the idea on
>>>> his own, as part of job his responsibilities.
>>>>
>>>> So, I, an IT hardware technician who didn't even work for the department (they
>>>> were one of my "internal customers") made a suggestion 3 years before one of
>>>> their internal engineers (supposedly) came up with the same idea. At that time
>>>> they had the money, so they implemented his *free* suggestion, not mine.
>>>>
>>>> I was not a happy camper for quite a while.
>>>
>>> Yep, like many such programs, if they're not going to be faithful to
>>> the intent of the program the incentive is often the opposite of what
>>> is desired. That's why I don't bother with any of the morale
>>> enhancement programs, wherever I've worked. They always end up doing
>>> the opposite, eventually.
>>>
>>> The HR department where I work now manages to do it right (wrong) out
>>> of the chute. They have a "high-five" award, where you can give a
>>> co-worker an award for helping you, or whatever. Build points and
>>> exchange them for trinkets. I looked - nothing I want for anything
>>> like what could be reasonably put together in a few years.
>>>
>>> Then they screwed the pooch further by making it mandatory or *you*
>>> get dinged on your performance.
>>>
>>> They're also trying to motivate us to exercise, so give above points
>>> for exercise, except that you have to link your smart watch (or
>>> whatever) to their site. No thanks. They want groups to get together
>>> to do a million steps. Hell, I do a million a month, myself, but I'm
>>> not about to give them access to that information. I have had a bunch
>>> of people ask me to join their groups, though. ;-)
>>>
>>> Then there is the "How are we feeling today <, children>?", weekly
>>> morale survey.
>>>
>>> "Come on, people, this is a job and we get paid well to do what we do
>>> and get treated pretty well in the mean time. Isn't that enough?"
>>> Yeah, such BS really turns me off.
>>>
>> What turns me off is people too freakin' lazy (or dumb, or ignorant) to
>> trim 6 pages of non-relevant crap to get to their point.
>
> What pisses me off a whiney asshole Usenet trolls.
>
--1

--
Jack
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.
http://jbstein.com


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