What Glue For Veneer?

On Oct 1, 9:54=A0am, Sonny <[email protected]> wrote:
> I've repaired small veneer chips/missing pieces, using Titebond II,
> successfully. =A0I now have a old dresser project with 2 drawers missing
> the veneer on their faces.
>
> What type of glue is appropriate for larger sheets of veneer
> application? =A0I don't think typical yellow glue is the appropriate
> glue. =A0The drawer faces measure 42"W X 8"H. =A0Base wood is solid maple
> and the veneer will be mahogany.
>
> Thanks.
> Sonny

Hot hide glue. You can apply the veneer with a "hammer"
while it's still liquid, or you can apply glue to the veneer and
substrate, let dry, then iron on the veneer with a clothes
iron set to 140 - 150 degrees.

That same iron can be clamped upside and used
like a hot plate to heat the glue in a soup can if you
don't have a "proper" (i.e. $150) glue pot. Other
way is to mix the glue, let it sit for an hour,
then nuke it in a microwave for 30 seconds to
a minute, until a cooking thermometer reads
140 - 150 F (higher temps degrade collagen).

Unflavored Knox gelatin is very similar to
horse glue and handles the same. Dunno if
it's useful for veneering, but I tested it with a
couple of blocks of scrap, and the joint couldn't
be split with a hammer.

If hide glue is the best approach, I'll order the appropriate tools,
though I would rarely use them, later. I wouldn't mind learning how
to do the hammered technique. This project is not that special, so
learning on this piece (circa about 1940s, I suppose) would be
favorable.

Sonny

On Sunday, October 2, 2011 7:38:27 AM UTC-7, Sonny wrote:

> Does using paper backed not matter, as to what gluing technique is
> used, i.e., hide glue, contact cement, yellow or white glue? The
> WoodCraft's site, for another paper backed veneer, recommended using
> contact cement or cold press glue for the paper backed veneer. I
> thought I might try the yellow glue technique, using titebond II or
> Titebond III, since I have these on hand.

I've heard that thin veneers with water-based glues are a problem,
because the water expands the veneer, then on drying it can
check or curl. One can, however, apply a thin Titebond glue
layer, to each of the two surfaces, let it all dry, then iron
it down like a hotmelt glue.

I've personally found contact cement very effective and the long
working time means you needn't (cannot, really) rush.

I viewed several of the YouTube videos for application. I can't tell
if any of those veneers had PSA backing (I don't think so), paper
backing or if the veneer was raw (no backing). The videos didn't
mention whether the veneer was backed with anything. I ordered the
paper backed veneer -
http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/2000687/18051/Mahogany-Quartersawn-4-x-8-Veneer-Sheet-10MIL-Paper-Backed.aspx#ShippingBilling

Does using paper backed not matter, as to what gluing technique is
used, i.e., hide glue, contact cement, yellow or white glue? The
WoodCraft's site, for another paper backed veneer, recommended using
contact cement or cold press glue for the paper backed veneer. I
thought I might try the yellow glue technique, using titebond II or
Titebond III, since I have these on hand.

Sonny

On Oct 2, 12:27=A0pm, Larry Blanchard <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Sat, 01 Oct 2011 18:52:59 -0700, Father Haskell wrote:
> > Unflavored Knox gelatin is very similar to horse glue and handles the
> > same. =A0Dunno if it's useful for veneering, but I tested it with a cou=
ple
> > of blocks of scrap, and the joint couldn't be split with a hammer.
>
> There was an article long ago in FWW about a Japanese craftsman who used
> rice glue. =A0He said it not only glued his projects, it served as his
> lunch! =A0I suppose the same could be said for the gelatin.
>
> I think my wife lost her taste for Jello after I told her it was just
> hide glue with more refining :-).
>
> --
> Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

I'm starting to think that Jello was invented as a drinking bet
between two food chemists, to see if glue could be sold as
food.

On Nov 6, 12:39=A0pm, Larry Blanchard <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Sun, 06 Nov 2011 05:41:37 +0000, Andrew Barss wrote:
> > Or hide glue. =A0There are several inexpensive books on veneering, any =
one
> > of which will give details on hide glue.
>
> Unless you already have a glue pot, use the liquid hide glue. =A0It's not
> worth using hot hide glue for one project. =A0Take a look at:
>
> http://www.fullchisel.com/blog/?p=3D751

Standard model "cheap" glue pot:

http://www.spurlocktools.com/id57.htm

$12.00 knockoff, 1000w, heats glue fast, although
the thermostat is hard to fine set. Plug in, wait
for the water temp to hit 160 and the glue 145, then
unplug. The glue will stay hot enough for the next
15 minutes. Plug in again and repeat as needed.

On Oct 1, 11:41=A0pm, -MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 10/1/11 9:09 PM, Father Haskell wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Oct 1, 10:03 pm, -MIKE-<[email protected]> =A0wrote:
> >> On 10/1/11 8:52 PM, Father Haskell wrote:
>
> >>> On Oct 1, 9:54 am, Sonny<[email protected]> =A0 =A0wrote:
> >>>> I've repaired small veneer chips/missing pieces, using Titebond II,
> >>>> successfully. =A0I now have a old dresser project with 2 drawers mis=
sing
> >>>> the veneer on their faces.
>
> >>>> What type of glue is appropriate for larger sheets of veneer
> >>>> application? =A0I don't think typical yellow glue is the appropriate
> >>>> glue. =A0The drawer faces measure 42"W X 8"H. =A0Base wood is solid =
maple
> >>>> and the veneer will be mahogany.
>
> >>>> Thanks.
> >>>> Sonny
>
> >>> Hot hide glue. =A0You can apply the veneer with a "hammer"
> >>> while it's still liquid, or you can apply glue to the veneer and
> >>> substrate, let dry, then iron on the veneer with a clothes
> >>> iron set to 140 - 150 degrees.
>
> >>> That same iron can be clamped upside and used
> >>> like a hot plate to heat the glue in a soup can if you
> >>> don't have a "proper" (i.e. $150) glue pot. =A0Other
> >>> way is to mix the glue, let it sit for an hour,
> >>> then nuke it in a microwave for 30 seconds to
> >>> a minute, until a cooking thermometer reads
> >>> 140 - 150 F (higher temps degrade collagen).
>
> >>> Unflavored Knox gelatin is very similar to
> >>> horse glue and handles the same. =A0Dunno if
> >>> it's useful for veneering, but I tested it with a
> >>> couple of blocks of scrap, and the joint couldn't
> >>> be split with a hammer.
>
> >> Or just buy the synthetic stuff in a plastic bottle.
>
> > Liquid hide glue? =A0Made viable at room temp by
> > addition of urea, with only a negligible strength
> > tradeoff _if_ it's fresh. =A0It's worthless after six
> > months past packaging date.
>
> > The hot glue I'm using now is from 30 year old
> > stock, and it's as good as new. =A0Holds wood like
> > it was welded.
>
> And it's soooooo easy to use.

It's only slow to set up the pot. I cheat, and preheat
the water and glue in the microwave. Once the pot is
up to working temperature, however, you can get a lot of
gluing done very fast (you pretty much have to). Apply
glue, rub and hold pieces together for a minute, proceed
to the next joint. Nice not to have your entire production
slowed and bottlenecked by not having enough clamps.

This demo makes superglue look slower than January
molasses:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D21sL6XLM02Y

On Oct 1, 10:03=A0pm, -MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 10/1/11 8:52 PM, Father Haskell wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Oct 1, 9:54 am, Sonny<[email protected]> =A0wrote:
> >> I've repaired small veneer chips/missing pieces, using Titebond II,
> >> successfully. =A0I now have a old dresser project with 2 drawers missi=
ng
> >> the veneer on their faces.
>
> >> What type of glue is appropriate for larger sheets of veneer
> >> application? =A0I don't think typical yellow glue is the appropriate
> >> glue. =A0The drawer faces measure 42"W X 8"H. =A0Base wood is solid ma=
ple
> >> and the veneer will be mahogany.
>
> >> Thanks.
> >> Sonny
>
> > Hot hide glue. =A0You can apply the veneer with a "hammer"
> > while it's still liquid, or you can apply glue to the veneer and
> > substrate, let dry, then iron on the veneer with a clothes
> > iron set to 140 - 150 degrees.
>
> > That same iron can be clamped upside and used
> > like a hot plate to heat the glue in a soup can if you
> > don't have a "proper" (i.e. $150) glue pot. =A0Other
> > way is to mix the glue, let it sit for an hour,
> > then nuke it in a microwave for 30 seconds to
> > a minute, until a cooking thermometer reads
> > 140 - 150 F (higher temps degrade collagen).
>
> > Unflavored Knox gelatin is very similar to
> > horse glue and handles the same. =A0Dunno if
> > it's useful for veneering, but I tested it with a
> > couple of blocks of scrap, and the joint couldn't
> > be split with a hammer.
>
> Or just buy the synthetic stuff in a plastic bottle.

Liquid hide glue? Made viable at room temp by
addition of urea, with only a negligible strength
tradeoff _if_ it's fresh. It's worthless after six
months past packaging date.

The hot glue I'm using now is from 30 year old
stock, and it's as good as new. Holds wood like
it was welded.

On Oct 2, 9:08=A0am, "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote:
> In article <7ab539a2-7bd3-48e4-b043-3d88c3289db5
> @q25g2000vbx.googlegroups.com>, [email protected] says...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Oct 1, 10:03=A0pm, -MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > On 10/1/11 8:52 PM, Father Haskell wrote:
>
> > > > On Oct 1, 9:54 am, Sonny<[email protected]> =A0wrote:
> > > >> I've repaired small veneer chips/missing pieces, using Titebond II=
,
> > > >> successfully. =A0I now have a old dresser project with 2 drawers m=
issing
> > > >> the veneer on their faces.
>
> > > >> What type of glue is appropriate for larger sheets of veneer
> > > >> application? =A0I don't think typical yellow glue is the appropria=
te
> > > >> glue. =A0The drawer faces measure 42"W X 8"H. =A0Base wood is soli=
d maple
> > > >> and the veneer will be mahogany.
>
> > > >> Thanks.
> > > >> Sonny
>
> > > > Hot hide glue. =A0You can apply the veneer with a "hammer"
> > > > while it's still liquid, or you can apply glue to the veneer and
> > > > substrate, let dry, then iron on the veneer with a clothes
> > > > iron set to 140 - 150 degrees.
>
> > > > That same iron can be clamped upside and used
> > > > like a hot plate to heat the glue in a soup can if you
> > > > don't have a "proper" (i.e. $150) glue pot. =A0Other
> > > > way is to mix the glue, let it sit for an hour,
> > > > then nuke it in a microwave for 30 seconds to
> > > > a minute, until a cooking thermometer reads
> > > > 140 - 150 F (higher temps degrade collagen).
>
> > > > Unflavored Knox gelatin is very similar to
> > > > horse glue and handles the same. =A0Dunno if
> > > > it's useful for veneering, but I tested it with a
> > > > couple of blocks of scrap, and the joint couldn't
> > > > be split with a hammer.
>
> > > Or just buy the synthetic stuff in a plastic bottle.
>
> > Liquid hide glue? =A0Made viable at room temp by
> > addition of urea, with only a negligible strength
> > tradeoff _if_ it's fresh. =A0It's worthless after six
> > months past packaging date.
>
> It's very convenient though before it expires. =A0I just wish that the
> local hardware store would keep their stock current--they have it in
> small sizes but the stock on the shelf is about two years out of date. =
=A0
> Woodcraft has it fresh but only in big bottles that I won't use up
> before it expires.

The hot stuff lasts forever dry. Even mixed, unused glue can be
stored for a long time in the refrigerator. Mold will ruin it, but I
suspect preheating in a microwave kills any spores, same as
microwaving a sponge sterilizes it. The jar I mixed up a month
ago still hasn't transmogrified into something horrid and foul.

On 10/1/2011 8:54 AM, Sonny wrote:
> I've repaired small veneer chips/missing pieces, using Titebond II,
> successfully. I now have a old dresser project with 2 drawers missing
> the veneer on their faces.
>
> What type of glue is appropriate for larger sheets of veneer
> application? I don't think typical yellow glue is the appropriate
> glue. The drawer faces measure 42"W X 8"H. Base wood is solid maple
> and the veneer will be mahogany.
>
> Thanks.
> Sonny

One of my favorites for wood veneers and laminating lately:

http://www.woodcraft.com/Family/2005350/2005350.aspx

Has less formaldehyde than most plastic resin glues. All you need is a
measuring and some water.

On 11/6/2011 11:39 AM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
> On Sun, 06 Nov 2011 05:41:37 +0000, Andrew Barss wrote:
>
>> Or hide glue. There are several inexpensive books on veneering, any one
>> of which will give details on hide glue.
>
> Unless you already have a glue pot, use the liquid hide glue. It's not
> worth using hot hide glue for one project. Take a look at:
>
> http://www.fullchisel.com/blog/?p=751

Stephens a really good guy, gracious, extremely knowledgeable about hand
tools and glues, and willing to patiently explain his choices. He does
mostly restoration projects and is a big proponent of hide glues, using
the exclusively ... even Franklin's Liquid Hide Glue, in lieu of the
real thing.

Lately I've had the pleasure of visiting with him, one on one, in a
couple of video "Hangouts" on Google+, very informative.

(He was looking for a guinea pig to test his video camera out, and I was
the lucky one in that regard, so I took full advantage of the
opportunity) :)


--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

In article <7ab539a2-7bd3-48e4-b043-3d88c3289db5
@q25g2000vbx.googlegroups.com>, [email protected] says...
>
> On Oct 1, 10:03 pm, -MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:
> > On 10/1/11 8:52 PM, Father Haskell wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > On Oct 1, 9:54 am, Sonny<[email protected]>  wrote:
> > >> I've repaired small veneer chips/missing pieces, using Titebond II,
> > >> successfully.  I now have a old dresser project with 2 drawers missing
> > >> the veneer on their faces.
> >
> > >> What type of glue is appropriate for larger sheets of veneer
> > >> application?  I don't think typical yellow glue is the appropriate
> > >> glue.  The drawer faces measure 42"W X 8"H.  Base wood is solid maple
> > >> and the veneer will be mahogany.
> >
> > >> Thanks.
> > >> Sonny
> >
> > > Hot hide glue.  You can apply the veneer with a "hammer"
> > > while it's still liquid, or you can apply glue to the veneer and
> > > substrate, let dry, then iron on the veneer with a clothes
> > > iron set to 140 - 150 degrees.
> >
> > > That same iron can be clamped upside and used
> > > like a hot plate to heat the glue in a soup can if you
> > > don't have a "proper" (i.e. $150) glue pot.  Other
> > > way is to mix the glue, let it sit for an hour,
> > > then nuke it in a microwave for 30 seconds to
> > > a minute, until a cooking thermometer reads
> > > 140 - 150 F (higher temps degrade collagen).
> >
> > > Unflavored Knox gelatin is very similar to
> > > horse glue and handles the same.  Dunno if
> > > it's useful for veneering, but I tested it with a
> > > couple of blocks of scrap, and the joint couldn't
> > > be split with a hammer.
> >
> > Or just buy the synthetic stuff in a plastic bottle.
>
> Liquid hide glue? Made viable at room temp by
> addition of urea, with only a negligible strength
> tradeoff _if_ it's fresh. It's worthless after six
> months past packaging date.

It's very convenient though before it expires. I just wish that the
local hardware store would keep their stock current--they have it in
small sizes but the stock on the shelf is about two years out of date.
Woodcraft has it fresh but only in big bottles that I won't use up
before it expires.
>
> The hot glue I'm using now is from 30 year old
> stock, and it's as good as new. Holds wood like
> it was welded.

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
>
> On Sat, 01 Oct 2011 21:51:19 -0400, Eric wrote:
>
> > You've never done hammer veneering with hide glue?
> >
> > ========
> >
> > No I haven't. I am not familiar with that product.
> >
> > I would assume it is an adhesive for leather and stays flexible, like
> > contact cement, to work in that application.
>
> Well, no. It is brittle and does not creep under load, like PVA does.
> It is used for veneering and for musical instrument making. Museum
> conservators strongly suggest that anything you make that might become a
> "heirloom" be assembled with hide glue because it is reversible.
>
> Also, since it is a protein, glue soaking through a thin veneer does not
> create an ugly blotch that won't take dye or stain.
>
> I could go on, but it's easier to point you to:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_glue
>
> Try it - even if only the liquid stuff that doesn't require heat.

Yeah, I was surprised at how nicely it worked. Not gonna replace
Titebond with it unless I develop some production volume at some point
but it's not bad.

Father Haskell <[email protected]> wrote in
news:672e0098-de81-4572-8f3d-c4c9d84885d7@h34g2000yqd.googlegroups.com:

> On Oct 1, 11:41 pm, -MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On 10/1/11 9:09 PM, Father Haskell wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Oct 1, 10:03 pm, -MIKE-<[email protected]>  wrote:
>> >> On 10/1/11 8:52 PM, Father Haskell wrote:
>>
>> >>> On Oct 1, 9:54 am, Sonny<[email protected]>    wrote:
>> >>>> I've repaired small veneer chips/missing pieces, using Titebond
>> >>>> II, successfully.  I now have a old dresser project with 2
>> >>>> drawers mis
> sing
>> >>>> the veneer on their faces.
>>
>> >>>> What type of glue is appropriate for larger sheets of veneer
>> >>>> application?  I don't think typical yellow glue is the
>> >>>> appropriate glue.  The drawer faces measure 42"W X 8"H.  Base
>> >>>> wood is solid
> maple
>> >>>> and the veneer will be mahogany.
>>
>> >>>> Thanks.
>> >>>> Sonny
>>
>> >>> Hot hide glue.  You can apply the veneer with a "hammer"
>> >>> while it's still liquid, or you can apply glue to the veneer and
>> >>> substrate, let dry, then iron on the veneer with a clothes
>> >>> iron set to 140 - 150 degrees.
>>
>> >>> That same iron can be clamped upside and used
>> >>> like a hot plate to heat the glue in a soup can if you
>> >>> don't have a "proper" (i.e. $150) glue pot.  Other
>> >>> way is to mix the glue, let it sit for an hour,
>> >>> then nuke it in a microwave for 30 seconds to
>> >>> a minute, until a cooking thermometer reads
>> >>> 140 - 150 F (higher temps degrade collagen).
>>
>> >>> Unflavored Knox gelatin is very similar to
>> >>> horse glue and handles the same.  Dunno if
>> >>> it's useful for veneering, but I tested it with a
>> >>> couple of blocks of scrap, and the joint couldn't
>> >>> be split with a hammer.
>>
>> >> Or just buy the synthetic stuff in a plastic bottle.
>>
>> > Liquid hide glue?  Made viable at room temp by
>> > addition of urea, with only a negligible strength
>> > tradeoff _if_ it's fresh.  It's worthless after six
>> > months past packaging date.
>>
>> > The hot glue I'm using now is from 30 year old
>> > stock, and it's as good as new.  Holds wood like
>> > it was welded.
>>
>> And it's soooooo easy to use.
>
> It's only slow to set up the pot. I cheat, and preheat
> the water and glue in the microwave. Once the pot is
> up to working temperature, however, you can get a lot of
> gluing done very fast (you pretty much have to). Apply
> glue, rub and hold pieces together for a minute, proceed
> to the next joint. Nice not to have your entire production
> slowed and bottlenecked by not having enough clamps.
>
> This demo makes superglue look slower than January
> molasses:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21sL6XLM02Y

Great! You've got me convinced. Now where are the best
materials/prices?

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

On Sat, 1 Oct 2011 23:24:56 +0000 (UTC), Larry Blanchard
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Sat, 01 Oct 2011 17:11:08 -0400, Eric wrote:
>
>> It takes a "bond on contact" type cement for larger veneer areas due to
>> not being able to keep all areas of the surface tight at the same time,
>> while the glue is hardening.
>
>You've never done hammer veneering with hide glue?

Why would anyone ever wish to veneer a hammer, LB? <groan>

--
It takes as much energy to wish as to plan.
--Eleanor Roosevelt

Unibond 800 is made for veneer. It dries rock hard (so no veneer creep
at the seams) and is not water based (so the veneer doesn't get all
curly on you when you apply the glue to the back of the veneer.

http://www.vacupress.com/veneerglue.htm

It's a two part glue so you will need to measure and mix carefully. It
doesn't smell too bad, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't have good
air exhaust to keep from breathing it for too long.

Mitch

On Oct 1, 9:51=A0pm, "Eric" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Larry Blanchard" =A0wrote in messagenews:[email protected].=
..
> On Sat, 01 Oct 2011 17:11:08 -0400, Eric wrote:
> > It takes a "bond on contact" type cement for larger veneer areas due to
> > not being able to keep all areas of the surface tight at the same time,
> > while the glue is hardening.
>
> You've never done hammer veneering with hide glue?
>
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
> No I haven't. I am not familiar with that product.
>
> I would assume it is an adhesive for leather and stays flexible, like
> contact cement, to work in that application.
>
> Different meanings for the word "hide". LOL

Cures hard and brittle, not flexible. That's part of the reason
it's used for instrument construction. Better sound transmission,
and necks or other parts under constant tension won't bow or
move and take a permanent set from glue creep.

Sonny wrote:
> I've repaired small veneer chips/missing pieces, using Titebond II,
> successfully. I now have a old dresser project with 2 drawers missing
> the veneer on their faces.
>
> What type of glue is appropriate for larger sheets of veneer
> application? I don't think typical yellow glue is the appropriate
> glue. The drawer faces measure 42"W X 8"H. Base wood is solid maple
> and the veneer will be mahogany.

Hide glue
Contact cement
Yellow glue
White glue


--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

"Sonny" wrote in message
news:63036efa-6566-40b7-8277-4520ae837600@x16g2000yql.googlegroups.com...

I've repaired small veneer chips/missing pieces, using Titebond II,
successfully. I now have a old dresser project with 2 drawers missing
the veneer on their faces.

What type of glue is appropriate for larger sheets of veneer
application? I don't think typical yellow glue is the appropriate
glue. The drawer faces measure 42"W X 8"H. Base wood is solid maple
and the veneer will be mahogany.

Thanks.
Sonny

============
It takes a "bond on contact" type cement for larger veneer areas due to not
being able to keep all areas of the surface tight at the same time, while
the glue is hardening.

Typical wood glues will not perform well unless you have a press with
appropriate surface and a few thousand pound of pressure, similar to a
photographer's picture press.

Contact cement or equivalent.

--

Eric

On Sat, 01 Oct 2011 17:11:08 -0400, Eric wrote:

> It takes a "bond on contact" type cement for larger veneer areas due to
> not being able to keep all areas of the surface tight at the same time,
> while the glue is hardening.

You've never done hammer veneering with hide glue?

--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

"Larry Blanchard" wrote in message news:[email protected]...

On Sat, 01 Oct 2011 17:11:08 -0400, Eric wrote:

> It takes a "bond on contact" type cement for larger veneer areas due to
> not being able to keep all areas of the surface tight at the same time,
> while the glue is hardening.

You've never done hammer veneering with hide glue?

========

No I haven't. I am not familiar with that product.

I would assume it is an adhesive for leather and stays flexible, like
contact cement, to work in that application.

Different meanings for the word "hide". LOL

--

Eric

On 10/1/11 8:52 PM, Father Haskell wrote:
> On Oct 1, 9:54 am, Sonny<[email protected]> wrote:
>> I've repaired small veneer chips/missing pieces, using Titebond II,
>> successfully. I now have a old dresser project with 2 drawers missing
>> the veneer on their faces.
>>
>> What type of glue is appropriate for larger sheets of veneer
>> application? I don't think typical yellow glue is the appropriate
>> glue. The drawer faces measure 42"W X 8"H. Base wood is solid maple
>> and the veneer will be mahogany.
>>
>> Thanks.
>> Sonny
>
> Hot hide glue. You can apply the veneer with a "hammer"
> while it's still liquid, or you can apply glue to the veneer and
> substrate, let dry, then iron on the veneer with a clothes
> iron set to 140 - 150 degrees.
>
> That same iron can be clamped upside and used
> like a hot plate to heat the glue in a soup can if you
> don't have a "proper" (i.e. $150) glue pot. Other
> way is to mix the glue, let it sit for an hour,
> then nuke it in a microwave for 30 seconds to
> a minute, until a cooking thermometer reads
> 140 - 150 F (higher temps degrade collagen).
>
> Unflavored Knox gelatin is very similar to
> horse glue and handles the same. Dunno if
> it's useful for veneering, but I tested it with a
> couple of blocks of scrap, and the joint couldn't
> be split with a hammer.

Or just buy the synthetic stuff in a plastic bottle.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 10/1/11 9:09 PM, Father Haskell wrote:
> On Oct 1, 10:03 pm, -MIKE-<[email protected]> wrote:
>> On 10/1/11 8:52 PM, Father Haskell wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Oct 1, 9:54 am, Sonny<[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> I've repaired small veneer chips/missing pieces, using Titebond II,
>>>> successfully. I now have a old dresser project with 2 drawers missing
>>>> the veneer on their faces.
>>
>>>> What type of glue is appropriate for larger sheets of veneer
>>>> application? I don't think typical yellow glue is the appropriate
>>>> glue. The drawer faces measure 42"W X 8"H. Base wood is solid maple
>>>> and the veneer will be mahogany.
>>
>>>> Thanks.
>>>> Sonny
>>
>>> Hot hide glue. You can apply the veneer with a "hammer"
>>> while it's still liquid, or you can apply glue to the veneer and
>>> substrate, let dry, then iron on the veneer with a clothes
>>> iron set to 140 - 150 degrees.
>>
>>> That same iron can be clamped upside and used
>>> like a hot plate to heat the glue in a soup can if you
>>> don't have a "proper" (i.e. $150) glue pot. Other
>>> way is to mix the glue, let it sit for an hour,
>>> then nuke it in a microwave for 30 seconds to
>>> a minute, until a cooking thermometer reads
>>> 140 - 150 F (higher temps degrade collagen).
>>
>>> Unflavored Knox gelatin is very similar to
>>> horse glue and handles the same. Dunno if
>>> it's useful for veneering, but I tested it with a
>>> couple of blocks of scrap, and the joint couldn't
>>> be split with a hammer.
>>
>> Or just buy the synthetic stuff in a plastic bottle.
>
> Liquid hide glue? Made viable at room temp by
> addition of urea, with only a negligible strength
> tradeoff _if_ it's fresh. It's worthless after six
> months past packaging date.
>
> The hot glue I'm using now is from 30 year old
> stock, and it's as good as new. Holds wood like
> it was welded.

And it's soooooo easy to use.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On Sat, 01 Oct 2011 21:51:19 -0400, Eric wrote:

> You've never done hammer veneering with hide glue?
>
> ========
>
> No I haven't. I am not familiar with that product.
>
> I would assume it is an adhesive for leather and stays flexible, like
> contact cement, to work in that application.

Well, no. It is brittle and does not creep under load, like PVA does.
It is used for veneering and for musical instrument making. Museum
conservators strongly suggest that anything you make that might become a
"heirloom" be assembled with hide glue because it is reversible.

Also, since it is a protein, glue soaking through a thin veneer does not
create an ugly blotch that won't take dye or stain.

I could go on, but it's easier to point you to:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_glue

Try it - even if only the liquid stuff that doesn't require heat.

--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

On Sun, 02 Oct 2011 07:38:27 -0700, Sonny wrote:

> Does using paper backed not matter, as to what gluing technique is used,
> i.e., hide glue, contact cement, yellow or white glue?

I could be wrong, but I thought the paper backed stuff was designed to
use with contact cement.

--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

On Sat, 01 Oct 2011 18:52:59 -0700, Father Haskell wrote:

> Unflavored Knox gelatin is very similar to horse glue and handles the
> same. Dunno if it's useful for veneering, but I tested it with a couple
> of blocks of scrap, and the joint couldn't be split with a hammer.

There was an article long ago in FWW about a Japanese craftsman who used
rice glue. He said it not only glued his projects, it served as his
lunch! I suppose the same could be said for the gelatin.

I think my wife lost her taste for Jello after I told her it was just
hide glue with more refining :-).

--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

Sonny <[email protected]> wrote:
: I've repaired small veneer chips/missing pieces, using Titebond II,
: successfully. I now have a old dresser project with 2 drawers missing
: the veneer on their faces.

: What type of glue is appropriate for larger sheets of veneer
: application? I don't think typical yellow glue is the appropriate
: glue. The drawer faces measure 42"W X 8"H. Base wood is solid maple
: and the veneer will be mahogany.

This is a good application for yellow glue, which can be applied, let dry,
then will reactivate if you go over it with a clothes iron (forget the
right temp range, fairly low).

Or hide glue. There are several inexpensive books on veneering, any one
of which will give details on hide glue.

Do NOT use contact cement.

-- Andy Barss

On Sun, 06 Nov 2011 05:41:37 +0000, Andrew Barss wrote:

> Or hide glue. There are several inexpensive books on veneering, any one
> of which will give details on hide glue.

Unless you already have a glue pot, use the liquid hide glue. It's not
worth using hot hide glue for one project. Take a look at:

http://www.fullchisel.com/blog/?p=751

--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

On Sun, 06 Nov 2011 13:02:29 -0800, Father Haskell wrote:

> Standard model "cheap" glue pot:
>
> http://www.spurlocktools.com/id57.htm
>
> $12.00 knockoff, 1000w, heats glue fast, although the thermostat is hard
> to fine set. Plug in, wait for the water temp to hit 160 and the glue
> 145, then unplug.

Actually, I tend to go with the liquid stuff any time I don't need the
extra strength of a high grade hot glue. Which certainly is the case for
veneering.

While there are cheap alternatives to a glue pot that work well,
including the one you show, there's still the problem of the glue gelling
too quickly if the shop and/or the wood is cool.

Yes, one can solve that problem with a little urea, but that starts to
resemble the liquid stuff anyway so why bother.

Everybody has there own preferences and the hot hide glue certainly is
more traditional.

--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

On Sun, 06 Nov 2011 17:22:11 -0800, MB wrote:

> Unibond 800 is made for veneer.

But it requires pressure. In fact the web site says it's designed for
use with a vacuum press. With hide glue, hot or liquid, all you need is
a veneer hammer, and some folks make do with a roller.

How about the ability to do curved surfaces without either a press or a
form? A cinch with hide glue because of its quick grab.

--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw