Well, I went.
I was not expecting much as the web site did not indicate that many vendors
were coming, Leigh Jigs, Dubby/In Line Industries, and Laguna were not going
to be there.
Well, I was surprised, my wife and I had a great time for about 4 hours.
While TWC? was not there with all their accessories and supplies, PeachTree
filled in nicely with a few booths that were double the size of the old TWC
booths.
The usual were there, and there were lot's of demonstrations going on. the
turn out on the first day seemed quite impressive as there was quite a crowd
and every one seemed to be buying.
Festool was doing well as we saw several people walking out of the show with
Festool products. Two vendors were selling Festool products. The Domino's
were on being demoed at both locations.
MicroJig has come out with a new splitter that looks to be far superior to
the original designs. The originals were all plastic, the new Pro versions
are stainless steel covered in a clear plastic. The retainer pins are twice
as big in diameter and about 1/3 longer. 4 splitters per kit, plus 4 pull
away splitters.
I bought the double Grripper #230 kit including a DVD and they sold me the
Pro Splitter kit for $15 plus threw in 4 extra splitters. The DVD really
opened my eyes as to what kind of cuts are possible using the Gripper. I
was unaware that it is possible to cut a straight edge on a S2S board with
the GRRiper, or cut very thin veneers in narrow strips, and or cut flukes
down the length of a dowel on the TS.
Makita is getting ready to come out with a new generation LITE Weight 18
volt Lithium Ion battery. The drill with that battery felt like there was
no battery in the drill, almost top heavy, certainly much lighter weight
than any 9.6 I have ever used. Now 18 volts is starting to make since. The
battery is about 1" tall and about the same width and length as the typical
Li-Ion 18 bolt battery. About the size of a pack of cigarettes and probably
not much heavier.
Steel City was well represented by The Cutting Edge
Delta has badged the Osborne Miter gauge with the Delta name and in the last
2 years the Osborne/Delta miter gauge still has lots of slop then set to the
45 degree miter setting with the away from the blade end of the fence
pointing forward. The end of the miter fence can very easily be wiggled 2
to 3 degrees on the Delta/Osborne miter gauge, I find this to be the case on
all the latest versions of the Osborne miter gauges. 2 to 3 years ago when
I was upgrading my miter gauge I had the slop problem with the Osborne and
all the units at the supplier had the problem. Osborne personally denied
that the condition existed. If you are considering one, check it out before
buying.
I pointed the problem out to the Delta rep at the show and I got the "I have
heard this before" answer of, The miter gauge sees a lot of abuse being
loaded on and off of the truck going to the shows.
Apparently Delta is looking the other way also with this inherent design
flaw.
Minimax had a much more impressive demonstration of their products than they
did last year. Last year they had a bunch of guys/salesmen swarming around
the band saws and tipping the saws over by yanking on the blade guides.
This year more clean cut and easily identified rep's were treating the saws
with a lot more respect. Oh, no broken down machines at this years show
either. ;~)
Anyway I really enjoyed the show and learned a helpful tip for setting up my
3 year old Kreg Miter gauge from the Kreg guys.
"Leon" wrote in message
> Apparently Delta is looking the other way also with this inherent design
> flaw.
It's the new American corporate model ... cut deep into quality, spend some
of the savings on advertising since even the above average dufus is clueless
these days, and any extra not spent on buying politicians can be tucked into
upper management's compensation.
> Anyway I really enjoyed the show and learned a helpful tip for setting up
my
> 3 year old Kreg Miter gauge from the Kreg guys.
Thanks for the report!
Inquiring minds want to know: You obviously did not make a deal on a Domino?
;)
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 2/20/07
On Mar 31, 4:10 pm, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
.
>
> >>Either way, Delta seems to have a turbulent future.
>
> Well, I suspect that Delta will succeed. Probably it will not prosper.
I agree with the turbulence, but also think Delta will do OK. It has
transformed itself from being a tool company to a manufactuing
company. I don't think it will be long before they start selling just
plain crap, and milk the brand out as far as it can go selling their
ironware. I have already seen different things that give me pause at
seeing the Delta brand.
> Coffee makers with the Delta badge on them in the not too distant future.
> Do you remember when Black and Decker was considered a good brand?
It will start up with that junk line of homeowner tools that they kill
killed Rockwell with in the late 70s. All those green plastic tools
that weren't even decent anchors. Plain shit.
Delta has already stuck their toe in the water on that front, having
that line of tools out for a couple of years that sold three or four
14.4 hand tools in a blow mold case for a low price. Junk batteries,
plastic transmissions, bad fit... you name it. But they trotted it
out nonetheless, and stuck a 2 year warranty on it.
And yes, do remember when B&D was a good brand. In fact, I was doing
installation inspections for a company that was building a large
building here, and the workman were all union. Every single tool, no
exceptions, had to be permanently badged or stamped "Made in
America".
Consequently, NO Makita, DeWalt, Hitachi, Delta, Jet, Powermatic,
Festool, Metabo, Ridgid (HD), Panasonic or any other tools I usually
see. None, simply not allowed.
The only tools on the job were OLD Deltas, and some Rockwells for the
bigger tools.
But ALL the handtools were the Black and Decker "American Industrial
Line" that had the B&D badge encircled with a small wreath, or some
Milwaukees. That was it! And one of the sheetrock guys told me (not
kidding) that if the badge came off the screwgun he was using and it
couldn't be found, they got rid of the tool. If it wasn't certifiable
in sight, it was gone.
But the B&D tools they used were a step back in time. Nice heft, well
made, plenty of power, fit and finish were great. I still see them on
occasion on EBAY, or in a pawn shop, but less and less. I don't even
know if B&D makes that line anymore.
Robert
On Mar 31, 5:22 pm, "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> And one of the sheetrock guys told me (not
> > kidding) that if the badge came off the screwgun he was using and it
> > couldn't be found, they got rid of the tool. If it wasn't certifiable
> > in sight, it was gone.
>
> And if union types can afford to throw away a good tool because the
> label fell off then perhaps it's time for the laws which give the unions
> their power need to be reviewed.
>
Unless you are responding to another post, I personally never said
they were thrown away. I missed the post that did. If you are
responding to me, then the (union) contractor could take any of those
tools back to his shop for any kind of job prep work, shop projects or
save them for parts as he saw fit.
I did get a chuckle out of thinking that one could call for a
lightening bolt of social change reviewing the current legal powers
and status of unions to be be hurled over a drill probably on its way
back to the company shop.
Love to see the AG looking into that one.
Robert
On Apr 1, 2:56 am, "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
wrote:
[snipped for brevity]
> Love to see the AG looking into that one.
>
> Robert
I think he's busy.
On Apr 1, 12:32 pm, "Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Apr 1, 2:56 am, "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> [snipped for brevity]
>
> > Love to see the AG looking into that one.
>
> > Robert
>
> I think he's busy.
Yeah, no kidding!
Robert
On Mar 31, 6:55 pm, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
> It's a dreary day here ... probably has something to do with the case of
> "grandfather's cynicism"
It's a nice sunny day here and I STILL think corporate North America
has shit the bed in a big way.
Greed with screw you every time. I probably would have done a little
better in my life if I has applied a little greed, but I feel good
about what I have become.
Greed is one of eight Deadly Sins for a reason. Yes, eight. Staining
cherry has been added.
r
Leon,
Don't look for TWC any more. The owner died and the business was closed down
a little over a year ago.
I miss them too.
--
Charley
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Well, I went.
> I was not expecting much as the web site did not indicate that many
vendors
> were coming, Leigh Jigs, Dubby/In Line Industries, and Laguna were not
going
> to be there.
>
> Well, I was surprised, my wife and I had a great time for about 4 hours.
>
> While TWC? was not there with all their accessories and supplies,
PeachTree
> filled in nicely with a few booths that were double the size of the old
TWC
> booths.
>
> The usual were there, and there were lot's of demonstrations going on.
the
> turn out on the first day seemed quite impressive as there was quite a
crowd
> and every one seemed to be buying.
>
> Festool was doing well as we saw several people walking out of the show
with
> Festool products. Two vendors were selling Festool products. The
Domino's
> were on being demoed at both locations.
>
> MicroJig has come out with a new splitter that looks to be far superior to
> the original designs. The originals were all plastic, the new Pro
versions
> are stainless steel covered in a clear plastic. The retainer pins are
twice
> as big in diameter and about 1/3 longer. 4 splitters per kit, plus 4 pull
> away splitters.
> I bought the double Grripper #230 kit including a DVD and they sold me
the
> Pro Splitter kit for $15 plus threw in 4 extra splitters. The DVD really
> opened my eyes as to what kind of cuts are possible using the Gripper. I
> was unaware that it is possible to cut a straight edge on a S2S board with
> the GRRiper, or cut very thin veneers in narrow strips, and or cut flukes
> down the length of a dowel on the TS.
>
> Makita is getting ready to come out with a new generation LITE Weight 18
> volt Lithium Ion battery. The drill with that battery felt like there was
> no battery in the drill, almost top heavy, certainly much lighter weight
> than any 9.6 I have ever used. Now 18 volts is starting to make since.
The
> battery is about 1" tall and about the same width and length as the
typical
> Li-Ion 18 bolt battery. About the size of a pack of cigarettes and
probably
> not much heavier.
>
> Steel City was well represented by The Cutting Edge
>
> Delta has badged the Osborne Miter gauge with the Delta name and in the
last
> 2 years the Osborne/Delta miter gauge still has lots of slop then set to
the
> 45 degree miter setting with the away from the blade end of the fence
> pointing forward. The end of the miter fence can very easily be wiggled 2
> to 3 degrees on the Delta/Osborne miter gauge, I find this to be the case
on
> all the latest versions of the Osborne miter gauges. 2 to 3 years ago
when
> I was upgrading my miter gauge I had the slop problem with the Osborne and
> all the units at the supplier had the problem. Osborne personally denied
> that the condition existed. If you are considering one, check it out
before
> buying.
> I pointed the problem out to the Delta rep at the show and I got the "I
have
> heard this before" answer of, The miter gauge sees a lot of abuse being
> loaded on and off of the truck going to the shows.
> Apparently Delta is looking the other way also with this inherent design
> flaw.
>
> Minimax had a much more impressive demonstration of their products than
they
> did last year. Last year they had a bunch of guys/salesmen swarming
around
> the band saws and tipping the saws over by yanking on the blade guides.
> This year more clean cut and easily identified rep's were treating the
saws
> with a lot more respect. Oh, no broken down machines at this years show
> either. ;~)
>
> Anyway I really enjoyed the show and learned a helpful tip for setting up
my
> 3 year old Kreg Miter gauge from the Kreg guys.
>
>
>
[email protected] wrote:
>
> On Apr 1, 12:32 pm, "Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote:
> > On Apr 1, 2:56 am, "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > [snipped for brevity]
> >
> > > Love to see the AG looking into that one.
> >
> > > Robert
> >
> > I think he's busy.
>
> Yeah, no kidding!
>
Washington D.C. was looking for a city slogan.
The AG came up with
"Washington D.C. - We're Listening.
No, really, we ARE listening - your phone is tapped"
(actually that's from an NPR show called Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me)
charlie b
"Frank Boettcher" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> You're right. Senior moment. But you get the point. How can a very
> successful company that relied almost solely on the experience of its
> work force lose 99% of them, and succeed. Answer, cannot happen.
>>
>>Either way, Delta seems to have a turbulent future.
>>
>
Well, I suspect that Delta will succeed. Probably it will not prosper. I
agree though, with out good people and experience the journey is either
going to be tough or we are going to see the latest in Toaster Ovens and
Coffee makers with the Delta badge on them in the not too distant future.
Do you remember when Black and Decker was considered a good brand?
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Leon" wrote in message
>
>> Apparently Delta is looking the other way also with this inherent design
>> flaw.
>
> It's the new American corporate model ... cut deep into quality, spend
> some
> of the savings on advertising since even the above average dufus is
> clueless
> these days, and any extra not spent on buying politicians can be tucked
> into
> upper management's compensation.
Yup.
>
>> Anyway I really enjoyed the show and learned a helpful tip for setting up
> my
>> 3 year old Kreg Miter gauge from the Kreg guys.
>
> Thanks for the report!
>
> Inquiring minds want to know: You obviously did not make a deal on a
> Domino?
> ;)
No, not yet....;~)
The Domino and the accessories, $720, 1100 Tennon Assortment $200, Vac,
about $300 IIRC.
Or IIRC $1139 as a set.
No deals at the show on Festool. IIRC the dealers are not allowed to
deviate from Festools suggested list. If you buy after May 31 the Domino
goes up to regular price at $40 more.
"Frank Boettcher" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>>
>
> Could have something to do with the fact that there are approximately
> 10 people left with Delta who were with them in 2000. (in the U.S. I
> haven't kept up with Canada). 650 more or less to 10. Gives new
> meaning to the old corporate slogan that people are our most important
> commodity. Pentair was saying that right up to the time they set that
> up to happen.
>
> Frank
>
I am surprised that Delta even bought the Osborn gauge. Its flaw is
immediately apparent the first time you extend it out to the 45 degree
setting.
As far as the slogan, People are our most important commodity, HUH? That
sounds like how they are thinking now. Personally I would not want to ever
be considered a commodity.
I have always heard, People are our most valuable "asset".
Either way, Delta seems to have a turbulent future.
"Frank Boettcher" wrote in message
> "Swingman" wrote:
> >It's the new American corporate model ... cut deep into quality, spend
some
> >of the savings on advertising since even the above average dufus is
clueless
> >these days, and any extra not spent on buying politicians can be tucked
into
> >upper management's compensation.
> >
>
> Could have something to do with the fact that there are approximately
> 10 people left with Delta who were with them in 2000. (in the U.S. I
> haven't kept up with Canada). 650 more or less to 10. Gives new
> meaning to the old corporate slogan that people are our most important
> commodity. Pentair was saying that right up to the time they set that
> up to happen.
It's a dreary day here ... probably has something to do with the case of
"grandfather's cynicism". Turns out Galsworthy's good reading for a dreary
day ... you realize that nothing has really changed in the last hundred
years. :)
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 2/20/07
"Charley" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Leon,
>
> Don't look for TWC any more. The owner died and the business was closed
> down
> a little over a year ago.
>
> I miss them too.
>
Actually I think PeachTree had a better better representation. I never was
really impressed with the TWC booth in Houston. Peachtree had 3 or 4
demonstrations going on all the time.
Peachtree had MicroJig, Bessy, Freud, and MicroMesh demonstrations going on
all the time.
I don't recall TWC having any demonstrations, maybe they did.
And yeah, I was aware of the very unfortunate TWC situation.
On Sat, 31 Mar 2007 20:47:34 GMT, "Leon"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"Frank Boettcher" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>
>> Could have something to do with the fact that there are approximately
>> 10 people left with Delta who were with them in 2000. (in the U.S. I
>> haven't kept up with Canada). 650 more or less to 10. Gives new
>> meaning to the old corporate slogan that people are our most important
>> commodity. Pentair was saying that right up to the time they set that
>> up to happen.
>>
>> Frank
>>
>
> I am surprised that Delta even bought the Osborn gauge. Its flaw is
>immediately apparent the first time you extend it out to the 45 degree
>setting.
>
>As far as the slogan, People are our most important commodity, HUH? That
>sounds like how they are thinking now. Personally I would not want to ever
>be considered a commodity.
>
> I have always heard, People are our most valuable "asset".
You're right. Senior moment. But you get the point. How can a very
successful company that relied almost solely on the experience of its
work force lose 99% of them, and succeed. Answer, cannot happen.
>
>Either way, Delta seems to have a turbulent future.
>
Robatoy wrote:
> Greed with screw you every time. I probably would have done a little
> better in my life if I has applied a little greed, but I feel good
> about what I have become.
> Greed is one of eight Deadly Sins for a reason. Yes, eight. Staining
> cherry has been added.
If she makes it, my mother will be 102 in mid April.
She has never failed to remind me that nobody has yet seen a U-Haul
follow a hearse to the cemetery.
Lew
[email protected] wrote:
> On Mar 31, 4:10 pm, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
> .
>>
>>>> Either way, Delta seems to have a turbulent future.
>>
>> Well, I suspect that Delta will succeed. Probably it will not
>> prosper.
>
> I agree with the turbulence, but also think Delta will do OK. It has
> transformed itself from being a tool company to a manufactuing
> company. I don't think it will be long before they start selling just
> plain crap, and milk the brand out as far as it can go selling their
> ironware. I have already seen different things that give me pause at
> seeing the Delta brand.
>
>> Coffee makers with the Delta badge on them in the not too distant
>> future.
>
>> Do you remember when Black and Decker was considered a good brand?
>
> It will start up with that junk line of homeowner tools that they kill
> killed Rockwell with in the late 70s. All those green plastic tools
> that weren't even decent anchors. Plain shit.
>
> Delta has already stuck their toe in the water on that front, having
> that line of tools out for a couple of years that sold three or four
> 14.4 hand tools in a blow mold case for a low price. Junk batteries,
> plastic transmissions, bad fit... you name it. But they trotted it
> out nonetheless, and stuck a 2 year warranty on it.
>
> And yes, do remember when B&D was a good brand. In fact, I was doing
> installation inspections for a company that was building a large
> building here, and the workman were all union. Every single tool, no
> exceptions, had to be permanently badged or stamped "Made in
> America".
>
> Consequently, NO Makita, DeWalt, Hitachi, Delta, Jet, Powermatic,
> Festool, Metabo, Ridgid (HD), Panasonic or any other tools I usually
> see. None, simply not allowed.
>
> The only tools on the job were OLD Deltas, and some Rockwells for the
> bigger tools.
>
> But ALL the handtools were the Black and Decker "American Industrial
> Line" that had the B&D badge encircled with a small wreath, or some
> Milwaukees. That was it! And one of the sheetrock guys told me (not
> kidding) that if the badge came off the screwgun he was using and it
> couldn't be found, they got rid of the tool. If it wasn't certifiable
> in sight, it was gone.
>
> But the B&D tools they used were a step back in time. Nice heft, well
> made, plenty of power, fit and finish were great. I still see them on
> occasion on EBAY, or in a pawn shop, but less and less. I don't even
> know if B&D makes that line anymore.
Since B&D, Dewalt, and Porter Cable (among others, including Delta last
I heard) are all the same company B&D doesn't need a premium line with
the B&D logo anymore.
And if union types can afford to throw away a good tool because the
label fell off then perhaps it's time for the laws which give the unions
their power need to be reviewed.
--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
On Sat, 31 Mar 2007 10:03:41 -0600, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
>"Leon" wrote in message
>
>> Apparently Delta is looking the other way also with this inherent design
>> flaw.
>
>It's the new American corporate model ... cut deep into quality, spend some
>of the savings on advertising since even the above average dufus is clueless
>these days, and any extra not spent on buying politicians can be tucked into
>upper management's compensation.
>
Could have something to do with the fact that there are approximately
10 people left with Delta who were with them in 2000. (in the U.S. I
haven't kept up with Canada). 650 more or less to 10. Gives new
meaning to the old corporate slogan that people are our most important
commodity. Pentair was saying that right up to the time they set that
up to happen.
Frank
>> Anyway I really enjoyed the show and learned a helpful tip for setting up
>my
>> 3 year old Kreg Miter gauge from the Kreg guys.
>
>Thanks for the report!
>
>Inquiring minds want to know: You obviously did not make a deal on a Domino?
>;)