Intolerance, like racism, cuts both ways. I feel the hate when my
white ass drives through certain parts of Detroit. I feel the love
when my Arab tenant in one of my buildings makes his young children
giggle with delight as he smooches them.
I feel the resentment when one of the members of the congregation
always shows up early and parks his Mercedes at the entrance of the
church parking lot so we can all get a good look at his new wheels.
(We all know he uses illegal/slave labour to achieve his riches.)
I get pissed at people who, in spite of all contrary evidence, still
think Bush is pretty cool. That right-wing thinking includes
intolerance of anybody who may have a different (yet often more
Christlike) viewpoint. The same people will take money away from their
own poor and sick people to arm Israel, a nation where christianity is
only partially tolerated because it brings tourism.
Tolerance is not a set of arbitrarily drawn lines which vary from
person to person.
The same man who yells bigotry, calls everybody he disagrees with, a
leftist.
The right is right, and everybody else is wrong. So much for
tolerance.
You want to help the less fortunate? Sorry..you're socialist.
Yup, the whole world is black and white. For us or against us. No
middle ground. No tolerance.
So much for plow shears and splinters in people's eyes.
r
On May 18, 12:09=A0pm, B A R R Y <beech23pi...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 18 May 2008 09:01:20 -0700 (PDT), Robatoy
>
> <Counterfit...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >Listen to BARRY.... "stick & rudder." (NOT to be confused with Dutch
> >Rudder.)<G>
>
> Of course, I had to go and Google "Dutch Rudder"... =A0
>
> I'm glad I wasn't drinking anything. =A0<G>
>
> ---------------------------------------------
> **http://www.bburke.com/woodworking.html=A0**
> ---------------------------------------------
LOL.. the stuff one learns on Fark.com (WHICH, btw, is a pretty cool
news aggregator , if you don't read too many of the posted comments.
The Photoshop contests are pretty cool though.. so is farktography.)
Fark is an acquired taste..<G>
On May 20, 3:54 pm, Lex <l...@ameriflon.com> wrote:
> Peter Huebner wrote:
> > In article <sa-dnb2QpPeoRa_VnZ2dnUVZ_jydn...@comcast.com>,
> > jbste...@comcast.net says...
> >> The left is right at all costs. All you need is look at left wing
> >> socialists like Hitler, Mao, Stalin and so on and you will find the
> >> blood of many millions on their collective hands.
>
> > Good lord, but you are a bit confused, aren't you?
> > Hitler, the left wing socialist. Oh boy. You need an
> > eddication.
>
> > -P.
>
> No -P. you need some education (not eddication)...
> Yup, socialism is left wing...
> Hitler was the head of the national "socialist" party...
> Therefore, Hitler (and the rest) are? That's right, left wing.
The Nationalist Socialist Party was not Socialist. Consider
that there were at least 4 major private companies making
aircraft for the Luftwaffe.
Incidentally Google groups is now requiring image/word
verification to post.
--
FF
Larry Blanchard wrote:
>
>> For purposes of law, I would be content to have it act only when and
>> if a particular action harms or threatens another individual. Morality
>> is a matter of personal belief and practice. It should be debated
>> regularly and loudly. It should not invoke the force of government to
>> suppress the currently despised minority. This doesn't mean that
>> moral/ethical discussions are not important. They are. It just means
>> that they are not the proper purview of law.
>>
>
>> I'm not all that tolerant of lots of things. I'm not tolerant of the
>> vast level of stupidity in the larger culture. I'm not tolerant about
>> the lack of manners in the culture. I'm not tolerant about any number
>> of personal behaviors - some mentioned above. But I choose to express
>> my objections to these behaviors as a private citizen, not invoke the
>> Big Stick of almighty government to *make* others do (or not do) what
>> I want.
>
>
> I'm beginning to be amazed at the amount of stuff we agree on :-).
>
> Luckily, that still leaves a lot to argue about - the devil is in the
> details :-).
If it makes you feel any better, my rightwing friends and colleagues
find my ideas (and perhaps even me personally) just as obnoxious
as the lefties do. That's how I know I'm thinking properly - if
I am irritating both sides simultaneously - sort of like finding
the crosshairs for a carrier landing.
This is worth a read BTW:
http://www.cato.org/pubs/catosletter/catosletterv6n2.pdf
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Daneliuk tundra@tundraware.com
PGP Key: http://www.tundraware.com/PGP/
On May 20, 9:55 am, Jack Stein <jbste...@comcast.net> wrote:
> Robatoy wrote:
> > Tolerance is not a set of arbitrarily drawn lines which vary from
> > person to person.
> > The same man who yells bigotry, calls everybody he disagrees with, a
> > leftist.
>
> Seems to me the man that yells bigotry is always a left winger calling
> everybody he disagrees with a bigot, and a right winger. One thing the
> Clinton/Obama campaign has brought into clearer view is just how racist
> the left really is.
>
> > The right is right, and everybody else is wrong. So much for
> > tolerance.
>
> The left is right at all costs. All you need is look at left wing
> socialists like Hitler, Mao, Stalin and so on and you will find the
> blood of many millions on their collective hands.
>
Nonsense. Claiming a title doesn't make you a champion.
I can call my mutt a well-trained Doberman, but she still weighs 15
pounds and thinks the world was born to pet her.
On May 19, 10:12 pm, Fred the Red Shirt <fredfigh...@spamcop.net>
wrote:
> On May 19, 10:02 pm, Robatoy <Counterfit...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On May 19, 9:12 pm, Peter Huebner <no....@this.address> wrote:> In artic=
le <a38f0149-3272-4843-b95f-edd9f3bc996b@
> > > 27g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, Counterfit...@gmail.com says...> Intoler=
ance, like racism, cuts both ways. I feel the hate
>
> > > [snip]
>
> > > With you all the way, Robert. There is one problem with
> > > tolerance, and I may recall Martin Niem=F6ller's famour poem:
>
> > [snipped for brevity]
>
> > The Norway story is not unlike what I witnessed in The Netherlands
> > during one of my visits. A close friend of mine, one who I went to
> > school with in my youth, has, as far as memory serves me, always been
> > a gay man. I was always impressed with the way society in that country
> > tolerated his life style. During one visit, a few years ago, he shared
> > with me the harassment he'd been receiving from muslim youth in
> > Amsterdam where he lives.
> > Imported hate. Yeehaw.
>
> > Personally, I tolerate whatever belief anybody wants to adopt. But,
> > just like if somebody wanted to stuff a raw oyster down my throat, I
> > also do NOT want their beliefs stuffed down my throat.
>
> > I'm tolerant, but don't get in my face.
>
> I don't know who said it first: "The last refuge of a
> scoundrel is the law." Regarding Marion Barry's,
> er, legal troubles, one pundit commented that "The
> last refuge of a black scoundrel is racism."
>
> Perhaps we can add, "The last refuge of an intolerant
> scoundrel is intolerance."
>
> --
>
> FF
Samuel Johnson stated that, "The last refuge of a scoundrel is
patriotism".
Mark & Juanita wrote:
> Jack Stein wrote:
>
>> Robatoy wrote:
>>
> ... snip
>>> You want to help the less fortunate? Sorry..you're socialist.
>> When a socialist wants to help the less fortunate, it always seems to
>> SCREW the less fortunate.
>>
>
> Well, that and when a socialist want to help the less fortunate, they
> always want to use other peoples' money to do it.
Bingo. Worse that that, they are willing to use threat and even
force to extract that money from Other People to server
their "good" causes.
>
>
>>> Yup, the whole world is black and white. For us or against us. No
>>> middle ground. No tolerance.
>> Why should one tolerate an ideal that is out to destroy their ideal?
>> For a capitalist to tolerate socialism or a socialist to tolerate
>> capitalism is silly. They are diabolically opposed. If by tolerate you
>> mean don't beat them to death, perhaps, but to tolerate their positions
>> or not speak out loudly when they squeal, I don't think so...You sure as
>> hell don't, why should anyone else?
>>
>
> The word tolerate used to mean "put up with". The modern liberal usage of
> the word means to agree, accept, and embrace.
Bingo again, although it is even worse today. "Tolerance" as
explicated by the ideological left mostly means embracing anything
that is different, deviant, strange, offensive, or that which
undermines traditional values. Western tradition, however, isn't
particularly well tolerated by modern liberals ... they tend
to sneer at that most often.
>
>
>>> So much for plow shears and splinters in people's eyes.
>> Well, when the socialists get total control, you won't see Letterman
>> bashing their leader every night, nor people owning guns, or competition
>> amongst business. Everything will be in total harmony....Or Else!
>>
>
> The left is pretty good at projection: projecting what they would do or
> want to do, onto the other side.
Just wait until you get President Obama. You are going to see an
evisceration of the Constitution like hasn't happened since FDR.
And we have the milquetoast Republicans to thank for this.
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Daneliuk tundra@tundraware.com
PGP Key: http://www.tundraware.com/PGP/
On May 22, 4:11 pm, Lex <l...@ameriflon.com> wrote:
> Fred the Red Shirt wrote:
>
> > On May 22, 2:46 pm, Lex <l...@ameriflon.com> wrote:
> >> Joe Stalin had more than 1 aircraft manufacturer too.
>
> > Who owned them?
>
> >> Does that make
> >> him less of a communist?
>
> > Indeed, he was a communist, not a socialist.
>
> ...
>
> In a capitalist system, one can profit from ownership, under a socialist
> system an individual may own the company, but so what? Ownership is
> worthless if you can not profit from that ownership...
That contradicts what I was taught about socialism,
which is that in a socialist economy the industries are
state-owned.
>
> Again from the Nazi party platform...
> "In consideration of the monstrous sacrifice in property and blood that
> each war demands of the people personal enrichment through a war must be
> designated as a crime against the people. Therefore, we demand the
> total confiscation of all war profits. "
>
So? The Nazis were liars.
> So your 4 Nazi aircraft manufacturers made no profit, and the system
> was...Socialist!!!
I may be mistaken but I'm pretty sure that many capitalists
made a lot of money during the Nazi years, regardless of
what demands were made.
--
FF
Fred the Red Shirt wrote:
> On May 22, 2:46 pm, Lex <l...@ameriflon.com> wrote:
>> Joe Stalin had more than 1 aircraft manufacturer too.
>
> Who owned them?
>
>> Does that make
>> him less of a communist?
>
> Indeed, he was a communist, not a socialist.
>
> --
>
> FF
>
In a capitalist system, one can profit from ownership, under a socialist
system an individual may own the company, but so what? Ownership is
worthless if you can not profit from that ownership...
Again from the Nazi party platform...
"In consideration of the monstrous sacrifice in property and blood that
each war demands of the people personal enrichment through a war must be
designated as a crime against the people. Therefore, we demand the
total confiscation of all war profits. "
So your 4 Nazi aircraft manufacturers made no profit, and the system
was...Socialist!!!
On May 19, 10:02 pm, Robatoy <Counterfit...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On May 19, 9:12 pm, Peter Huebner <no....@this.address> wrote:> In article=
<a38f0149-3272-4843-b95f-edd9f3bc996b@
> > 27g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, Counterfit...@gmail.com says...> Intoleran=
ce, like racism, cuts both ways. I feel the hate
>
> > [snip]
>
> > With you all the way, Robert. There is one problem with
> > tolerance, and I may recall Martin Niem=F6ller's famour poem:
>
> [snipped for brevity]
>
> The Norway story is not unlike what I witnessed in The Netherlands
> during one of my visits. A close friend of mine, one who I went to
> school with in my youth, has, as far as memory serves me, always been
> a gay man. I was always impressed with the way society in that country
> tolerated his life style. During one visit, a few years ago, he shared
> with me the harassment he'd been receiving from muslim youth in
> Amsterdam where he lives.
> Imported hate. Yeehaw.
>
> Personally, I tolerate whatever belief anybody wants to adopt. But,
> just like if somebody wanted to stuff a raw oyster down my throat, I
> also do NOT want their beliefs stuffed down my throat.
>
> I'm tolerant, but don't get in my face.
I don't know who said it first: "The last refuge of a
scoundrel is the law." Regarding Marion Barry's,
er, legal troubles, one pundit commented that "The
last refuge of a black scoundrel is racism."
Perhaps we can add, "The last refuge of an intolerant
scoundrel is intolerance."
--
FF
On May 20, 9:55 am, Jack Stein <jbste...@comcast.net> wrote:
> Robatoy wrote:
> ....
>
> > The right is right, and everybody else is wrong. So much for
> > tolerance.
>
> The left is right at all costs. All you need is look at left wing
> socialists like Hitler, Mao, Stalin and so on and you will find the
> blood of many millions on their collective hands.
None of whom were socialist, though at least two laid
claim to the word. Sort of like how so many socialist
claimed to be liberal, two philosophies that are diametrically
opposed. Now, having succeeded in giving liberalism a
bad name they are bent on doing the same for "progressive".
> ...
>
> Why should one tolerate an ideal that is out to destroy their ideal?
> For a capitalist to tolerate socialism or a socialist to tolerate
> capitalism is silly. They are diabolically opposed. If by tolerate you
> mean don't beat them to death, perhaps, but to tolerate their positions
> or not speak out loudly when they squeal, I don't think so...You sure as
> hell don't, why should anyone else?
For a while Yugoslavia operated a blend of the two and China
is attempting an even more radical marriage of communism
with capitalism.
--
FF
Am I wrong or are you calling yourself tolerant?
cm
"Robatoy" <Counterfitter@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:a38f0149-3272-4843-b95f-edd9f3bc996b@27g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> Intolerance, like racism, cuts both ways. I feel the hate when my
> white ass drives through certain parts of Detroit. I feel the love
> when my Arab tenant in one of my buildings makes his young children
> giggle with delight as he smooches them.
>
> I feel the resentment when one of the members of the congregation
> always shows up early and parks his Mercedes at the entrance of the
> church parking lot so we can all get a good look at his new wheels.
> (We all know he uses illegal/slave labour to achieve his riches.)
>
> I get pissed at people who, in spite of all contrary evidence, still
> think Bush is pretty cool. That right-wing thinking includes
> intolerance of anybody who may have a different (yet often more
> Christlike) viewpoint. The same people will take money away from their
> own poor and sick people to arm Israel, a nation where christianity is
> only partially tolerated because it brings tourism.
>
> Tolerance is not a set of arbitrarily drawn lines which vary from
> person to person.
> The same man who yells bigotry, calls everybody he disagrees with, a
> leftist.
>
> The right is right, and everybody else is wrong. So much for
> tolerance.
> You want to help the less fortunate? Sorry..you're socialist.
> Yup, the whole world is black and white. For us or against us. No
> middle ground. No tolerance.
>
> So much for plow shears and splinters in people's eyes.
>
> r
On May 17, 8:39=A0pm, "T McCoskery" <tjmccnos...@frontiernet.net> wrote:
> "Robatoy" <Counterfit...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:842ea896-f1ac-4c3e-b3e4-1c220863cb15@m45g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
> On May 17, 8:26 pm, "T McCoskery" <tjmccnos...@frontiernet.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Ain't a tolerant sorta guy, are you?
>
> > Heck of a burden being such a superior individual.
>
> > See, I can *accept* that there are people who think different than I do,=
> > and
> > are attracted to activites that I may find unusual or distasteful. I can=
> > even *tolerate* those people, keep company with them to some degree and
> > even
> > engage them in polite conversation. That does not mean that I *approve* =
of
> > the things they say or do.
>
> > You get bent out of shape because people do not approve of the same thin=
gs
> > that you do, or think the same way you do. Ergo, YOU are the intollerant=
> > one.
>
> > I come here to learn about woodworking, not to hear your OT opinions.
>
> > How about you becoming more tolerant and accepting and sticking to
> > woodworking?
>
> > <plonk>
>
> > "Robatoy" <Counterfit...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> >news:a38f0149-3272-4843-b95f-edd9f3bc996b@27g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > Intolerance, like racism, cuts both ways. I feel the hate when my
> > > white ass drives through certain parts of Detroit. I feel the love
> > > when my Arab tenant in one of my buildings makes his young children
> > > giggle with delight as he smooches them.
>
> > > I feel the resentment when one of the members of the congregation
> > > always shows up early and parks his Mercedes at the entrance of the
> > > church parking lot so we can all get a good look at his new wheels.
> > > (We all know he uses illegal/slave labour to achieve his riches.)
>
> > > I get pissed at people who, in spite of all contrary evidence, still
> > > think Bush is pretty cool. That right-wing thinking includes
> > > intolerance of anybody who may have a different (yet often more
> > > Christlike) viewpoint. The same people will take money away from their=
> > > own poor and sick people to arm Israel, a nation where christianity is=
> > > only partially tolerated because it brings tourism.
>
> > > Tolerance is not a set of arbitrarily drawn lines which vary from
> > > person to person.
> > > The same man who yells bigotry, calls everybody he disagrees with, a
> > > leftist.
>
> > > The right is right, and everybody else is wrong. So much for
> > > tolerance.
> > > You want to help the less fortunate? Sorry..you're socialist.
> > > Yup, the whole world is black and white. For us or against us. No
> > > middle ground. No tolerance.
>
> > > So much for plow shears and splinters in people's eyes.
>
> > > r
>
> I even got hate-mail from this clown: tj...@frontiernet.net
>
> Telling me how tolerant HE is ... but not tolerant of me. I guess he
> missed the point.
>
> Funny shit, that.
>
> Awww, I made a mistake and sent you email. I did not call you any names,
> though, did I? =A0See how tolerant and accepting I am?
> I was just trying to help you understand the difference between tolerance,=
> acceptance, and approval!
Am I to be grateful that you didn't call me names?
And nooooo, you didn't accept me, you ended your e-mail with a
<plonk>, so you accepted NOTHING!
And I sure-as-fuck don't need your approval. Now piss off and go play
in a league you can handle.
See? Now THAT is me being tolerant. I accept your inability to tell
satire from some lofty poetic piece of bullshit like I posted. I do
NOT approve of your e-mailing me.
How am I doing?
On May 18, 11:32=A0am, Hoosierpopi <gooeytarba...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Another reason this list needs a MODERATOR
Oh goody!!! ONE opinion regulating a whole bunch of opinions.. Yippee.
THAT will encourage the free exchange of ideas. NOT!
Listen to BARRY.... "stick & rudder." (NOT to be confused with Dutch
Rudder.)<G>
On May 19, 10:09=A0pm, Doug Winterburn <dlwinterb...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Robatoy wrote:
> > On May 19, 9:12 pm, Peter Huebner <no....@this.address> wrote:
> >> In article <a38f0149-3272-4843-b95f-edd9f3bc996b@
> >> 27g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, Counterfit...@gmail.com says...> Intolera=
nce, like racism, cuts both ways. I feel the hate
>
> >> [snip]
>
> >> With you all the way, Robert. There is one problem with
> >> tolerance, and I may recall Martin Niem=F6ller's famour poem:
>
> > [snipped for brevity]
>
> > The Norway story is not unlike what I witnessed in The Netherlands
> > during one of my visits. A close friend of mine, one who I went to
> > school with in my youth, has, as far as memory serves me, always been
> > a gay man. I was always impressed with the way society in that country
> > tolerated his life style. During one visit, a few years ago, he shared
> > with me the harassment he'd been receiving from muslim youth in
> > Amsterdam where he lives.
> > Imported hate. Yeehaw.
>
> > Personally, I tolerate whatever belief anybody wants to adopt. But,
> > just like if somebody wanted to stuff a raw oyster down my throat, I
> > also do NOT want their beliefs stuffed down my throat.
>
> > I'm tolerant, but don't get in my face.
>
> Intolerant of your own face?
cute
On May 22, 4:22 pm, Lex <l...@ameriflon.com> wrote:
> Fred the Red Shirt wrote:
>
> > On May 22, 2:46 pm, Lex <l...@ameriflon.com> wrote:
> >> Joe Stalin had more than 1 aircraft manufacturer too.
>
> > Who owned them?
>
> >> Does that make
> >> him less of a communist?
>
> > Indeed, he was a communist, not a socialist.
>
> > --
>
> > FF
>
> Or are you arguing that because there was private ownership (worthless
> tho it may be) that the Nazi's ran a capitalist system?????
I am indeed arguing that there was private ownership of
the industries but also deny that it was worthless.
I cited aircraft manufacturers in particular because
when one studies the history of the Lufthanza and the
Luftwaffe one finds competitive bidding throughout the
war.
The Nazis were fascist, not socialist. The Soviets were
communist, not socialist.
Today's France is socialist.
--
FF
On May 17, 9:20 pm, B A R R Y <beech23pi...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> > I feel the resentment when one of the members of the congregation
> >> > always shows up early and parks his Mercedes at the entrance of the
> >> > church parking lot so we can all get a good look at his new wheels.
>
> My favorite family-owned landscaper / garden shop shares a "curb cut"
> on a major road with a Baptist church.
>
> The church is on a corner, the garden shop is one lot down.
>
> The church has placed all sorts of "Do Not Enter" and "No Parking"
> signs along the 150' paved border (shared parking lot), to prevent
> customers of the garden shop from parking or driving through the
> church lot at any time. This forces the garden shop customers to make
> a left turn out onto a road that averages 55-60 MPH, to drive 50 feet
> to a light. The safest way to exit the lot would be to travel through
> the church lot (as was done when the property housed busses) and turn
> left on the road. Here's a Google Earth shot:
>
> <http://maps.google.com/maps?q=uncle+bob's+garden+shop&ie=UTF8&oe=utf-....
>
> 99% of the time (far less than with school busses), the church lot is
> empty.
>
> The "church" used to be a school bus depot.
>
> The garden shop is to the right of center, the church is the bigger
> building to the left. CT residents familiar with Rt. 66 would know
> the "Red Dog Cafe" just off the upper left corner of the intersection.
>
> Tolerance? I don't get it...
>
> ---------------------------------------------
> **http://www.bburke.com/woodworking.html **
> ---------------------------------------------
In all fairness, it's not like the church has a public budget behind
it to repair the wear and tear on the parking lot from people using it
as a driveway.
-Nathan
Peter Huebner wrote:
> In article <sa-dnb2QpPeoRa_VnZ2dnUVZ_jydnZ2d@comcast.com>,
> jbstein2@comcast.net says...
>> The left is right at all costs. All you need is look at left wing
>> socialists like Hitler, Mao, Stalin and so on and you will find the
>> blood of many millions on their collective hands.
>>
>
> Good lord, but you are a bit confused, aren't you?
> Hitler, the left wing socialist. Oh boy. You need an
> eddication.
>
> -P.
>
No -P. you need some education (not eddication)...
Yup, socialism is left wing...
Hitler was the head of the national "socialist" party...
Therefore, Hitler (and the rest) are? That's right, left wing.
The problem is that the Leftist/Liberal/Progressive/socialists have
co-opted the true/traditional meanings of right and left...
in that co-opted world...
Left means a nice, all loving, all caring, all giving benevolent state.
Right is an evil, mean, greedy, totalitarian/Fascist state.
The reality is that if you take the left to its most extreme end, you
wind up with a fascistic, totalitarian, socialist/communist state which
by the necessity of its own survival, destroys the individual. It makes
the individual completely dependant upon, and subserviant to, the state
for all of the individuals needs. Social Security, Universal Health
care, Public Transportation, Wage controls, Gun Control, Import
Regulation... Eventually, because the state controls everything, it
also has the authority to to tell the individual what to think, believe,
be... It also has the authority over life and death... Oh, you can't
have a heart bypass, because you're; too fat, smoke, don't exercise, eat
to much meat.
On the other hand, if you take the right to it's most extreme end, you
wind up with... no government at all.
On May 22, 3:55 am, Bob Martin <bob.mar...@excite.com> wrote:
> in 67171 20080521 183046 Fred the Red Shirt <fredfigh...@spamcop.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> >On May 20, 3:54 pm, Lex <l...@ameriflon.com> wrote:
> >> Peter Huebner wrote:
> >> > In article <sa-dnb2QpPeoRa_VnZ2dnUVZ_jydn...@comcast.com>,
> >> > jbste...@comcast.net says...
> >> >> The left is right at all costs. All you need is look at left wing
> >> >> socialists like Hitler, Mao, Stalin and so on and you will find the
> >> >> blood of many millions on their collective hands.
>
> >> > Good lord, but you are a bit confused, aren't you?
> >> > Hitler, the left wing socialist. Oh boy. You need an
> >> > eddication.
>
> >> > -P.
>
> >> No -P. you need some education (not eddication)...
> >> Yup, socialism is left wing...
> >> Hitler was the head of the national "socialist" party...
> >> Therefore, Hitler (and the rest) are? That's right, left wing.
>
> >The Nationalist Socialist Party was not Socialist. Consider
> >that there were at least 4 major private companies making
> >aircraft for the Luftwaffe.
>
> Americans can't tell the difference between Socialism & Communism! ;-)
> Socialist governments and private enterprise co-exist quite happily in
> Western Europe.
Probably that is because in high school we were taught
that in a socialist economy the industries are state-owned,
in a communist one, there is no private property at all.
So, what were you taught?
--
FF
"Robatoy" <Counterfitter@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:842ea896-f1ac-4c3e-b3e4-1c220863cb15@m45g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
On May 17, 8:26 pm, "T McCoskery" <tjmccnos...@frontiernet.net> wrote:
> Ain't a tolerant sorta guy, are you?
>
> Heck of a burden being such a superior individual.
>
> See, I can *accept* that there are people who think different than I do,
> and
> are attracted to activites that I may find unusual or distasteful. I can
> even *tolerate* those people, keep company with them to some degree and
> even
> engage them in polite conversation. That does not mean that I *approve* of
> the things they say or do.
>
> You get bent out of shape because people do not approve of the same things
> that you do, or think the same way you do. Ergo, YOU are the intollerant
> one.
>
> I come here to learn about woodworking, not to hear your OT opinions.
>
> How about you becoming more tolerant and accepting and sticking to
> woodworking?
>
> <plonk>
>
> "Robatoy" <Counterfit...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:a38f0149-3272-4843-b95f-edd9f3bc996b@27g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>
> > Intolerance, like racism, cuts both ways. I feel the hate when my
> > white ass drives through certain parts of Detroit. I feel the love
> > when my Arab tenant in one of my buildings makes his young children
> > giggle with delight as he smooches them.
>
> > I feel the resentment when one of the members of the congregation
> > always shows up early and parks his Mercedes at the entrance of the
> > church parking lot so we can all get a good look at his new wheels.
> > (We all know he uses illegal/slave labour to achieve his riches.)
>
> > I get pissed at people who, in spite of all contrary evidence, still
> > think Bush is pretty cool. That right-wing thinking includes
> > intolerance of anybody who may have a different (yet often more
> > Christlike) viewpoint. The same people will take money away from their
> > own poor and sick people to arm Israel, a nation where christianity is
> > only partially tolerated because it brings tourism.
>
> > Tolerance is not a set of arbitrarily drawn lines which vary from
> > person to person.
> > The same man who yells bigotry, calls everybody he disagrees with, a
> > leftist.
>
> > The right is right, and everybody else is wrong. So much for
> > tolerance.
> > You want to help the less fortunate? Sorry..you're socialist.
> > Yup, the whole world is black and white. For us or against us. No
> > middle ground. No tolerance.
>
> > So much for plow shears and splinters in people's eyes.
>
> > r
I even got hate-mail from this clown: tjmcc@frontiernet.net
Telling me how tolerant HE is ... but not tolerant of me. I guess he
missed the point.
Funny shit, that.
Awww, I made a mistake and sent you email. I did not call you any names,
though, did I? See how tolerant and accepting I am?
I was just trying to help you understand the difference between tolerance,
acceptance, and approval!
On May 17, 8:26=A0pm, "T McCoskery" <tjmccnos...@frontiernet.net> wrote:
> Ain't a tolerant sorta guy, are you?
>
> Heck of a burden being such a superior individual.
>
> See, I can *accept* that there are people who think different than I do, a=
nd
> are attracted to activites that I may find unusual or distasteful. =A0I ca=
n
> even *tolerate* those people, keep company with them to some degree and ev=
en
> engage them in polite conversation. That does not mean that I *approve* of=
> the things they say or do.
>
> You get bent out of shape because people do not approve of the same things=
> that you do, or think the same way you do. Ergo, YOU are the intollerant
> one.
>
> I come here to learn about woodworking, not to hear your OT opinions.
>
> How about you becoming more tolerant and accepting and sticking to
> woodworking?
>
> <plonk>
>
> "Robatoy" <Counterfit...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:a38f0149-3272-4843-b95f-edd9f3bc996b@27g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>
> > Intolerance, like racism, cuts both ways. I feel the hate when my
> > white ass drives through certain parts of Detroit. I feel the love
> > when my Arab tenant in one of my buildings makes his young children
> > giggle with delight as he smooches them.
>
> > I feel the resentment when one of the members of the congregation
> > always shows up early and parks his Mercedes at the entrance of the
> > church parking lot so we can all get a good look at his new wheels.
> > (We all know he uses illegal/slave labour to achieve his riches.)
>
> > I get pissed at people who, in spite of all contrary evidence, still
> > think Bush is pretty cool. That right-wing thinking includes
> > intolerance of anybody who may have a different (yet often more
> > Christlike) viewpoint. The same people will take money away from their
> > own poor and sick people to arm Israel, a nation where christianity is
> > only partially tolerated because it brings tourism.
>
> > Tolerance is not a set of arbitrarily drawn lines which vary from
> > person to person.
> > The same man who yells bigotry, calls everybody he disagrees with, a
> > leftist.
>
> > The right is right, and everybody else is wrong. So much for
> > tolerance.
> > You want to help the less fortunate? Sorry..you're socialist.
> > Yup, the whole world is black and white. For us or against us. No
> > middle ground. No tolerance.
>
> > So much for plow shears and splinters in people's eyes.
>
> > r
I even got hate-mail from this clown: tjmcc@frontiernet.net
Telling me how tolerant HE is ... but not tolerant of me. I guess he
missed the point.
Funny shit, that.
On May 19, 5:20=A0pm, Mekon <controlsurfacenos...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Intolerance, like racism, cuts both ways. I feel the hate when my
> > white ass drives through certain parts of Detroit. I feel the love
> > when my Arab tenant in one of my buildings makes his young children
> > giggle with delight as he smooches them.
>
> (snip)
>
> Entirely coincidentally, I'm sure, but Dilbert had a great strip on
> tolerance yesterday.
>
> http://dilbert.com/2008-05-18/
>
> Mekon
>
> --
> Mekon
Good one... <G>
On Mon, 19 May 2008 05:55:53 -0700 (PDT), N Hurst <nhurst@gmail.com>
wrote:
>In all fairness, it's not like the church has a public budget behind
>it to repair the wear and tear on the parking lot from people using it
>as a driveway.
>
Good point.
Except the church goers leave via the garden center lot if they're
traveling to the right, and they park at the garden center when the
church lot overflows. <G> Church going kids often run around the
closed garden center's outdoor lot.
The garden shop didn't place "Keep Out" signs facing the church. Both
organizations typically draw people at completely different times. The
church draws at night and on Sunday morning, the retail operation is
closed after 6PM and on Sunday morning.
Tolerance is about give and take...
---------------------------------------------
** http://www.bburke.com/woodworking.html **
---------------------------------------------
Fred the Red Shirt wrote:
> On May 22, 2:46 pm, Lex <l...@ameriflon.com> wrote:
>> Joe Stalin had more than 1 aircraft manufacturer too.
>
> Who owned them?
>
>> Does that make
>> him less of a communist?
>
> Indeed, he was a communist, not a socialist.
>
> --
>
> FF
>
Or are you arguing that because there was private ownership (worthless
tho it may be) that the Nazi's ran a capitalist system?????
Joe Stalin had more than 1 aircraft manufacturer too. Does that make
him less of a communist?
Do the quotes below sound even remotely socialist to you?
Or perhaps frighteningly similar to some of the public discourse in the
USA today?????
"We demand that the state be charged first with providing the
opportunity for a livelihood and way of life for the citizens.
The first obligation of every citizen must be to work both spiritually
and physically. The activity of individuals is not to counteract the
interest of the universality, but must have its result within the
framework of the whole for the benefit of all.
Consequently we demand the abolition of unearned (work and labor)
incomes. Breaking of rent slavery.
In consideration of the monstrous sacrifice in property and blood that
each war demands of the people personal enrichment through a war must be
designated as a crime against the people. Therefore, we demand the
total confiscation of all war profits.
We demand the nationalization of all associated industries.
We demand a division of profits of heavy industries.
We demand an expansion on a large scale of old age welfare.
We demand the creation of a healthy middle class and its conservation,
immediate communalization of the great warehouses...
We demand land reform suitable to our needs...
We demand struggle with out consideration against against those whose
activities are injurious to the general interest...
The State is to be responsible for a fundamental reconstruction of our
whole national education program... all educational institutions are to
conform with the experiences of practical life. The comprehension of of
the concept of the State must be striven for by the school as early as
the beginning of understanding. We demand the education at the expense
of the state...
The State is to care for the elevating national health by protecting the
mother and child...
Publications which are counter to the general good are forbidden.
Unlimited authority of the central parliament..."
All these quotes are taken DIRECTLY from the Nazi party platform!
NAH, not at all socialist!!! And not at all like the road that the
left is attempting to take us down!!!
Fred the Red Shirt wrote:
> On May 20, 3:54 pm, Lex <l...@ameriflon.com> wrote:
>> Peter Huebner wrote:
>>> In article <sa-dnb2QpPeoRa_VnZ2dnUVZ_jydn...@comcast.com>,
>>> jbste...@comcast.net says...
>>>> The left is right at all costs. All you need is look at left wing
>>>> socialists like Hitler, Mao, Stalin and so on and you will find the
>>>> blood of many millions on their collective hands.
>>> Good lord, but you are a bit confused, aren't you?
>>> Hitler, the left wing socialist. Oh boy. You need an
>>> eddication.
>>> -P.
>> No -P. you need some education (not eddication)...
>> Yup, socialism is left wing...
>> Hitler was the head of the national "socialist" party...
>> Therefore, Hitler (and the rest) are? That's right, left wing.
>
> The Nationalist Socialist Party was not Socialist. Consider
> that there were at least 4 major private companies making
> aircraft for the Luftwaffe.
>
> Incidentally Google groups is now requiring image/word
> verification to post.
>
> --
>
> FF
>
>
In article <a38f0149-3272-4843-b95f-edd9f3bc996b@
27g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, Counterfitter@gmail.com says...
> Intolerance, like racism, cuts both ways. I feel the hate=20
[snip]
With you all the way, Robert. There is one problem with=20
tolerance, and I may recall Martin Niem=F6ller's famour poem:
When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.
When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.
When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.
When they came for the Jews,
I remained silent;
I wasn't a Jew.
When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.
(he forgot to mention the Gypsies and the homosexuals,
both of whom should've got a line there)
an interesting discussion kicked off by some gay blogger from=20
Norway:
http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/first_they_came_for_the_gays/
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
There is an inherent problem with tolerance for people who=20
hate, in particular people who hate without any *real reason*=20
to do so.=20
I can't offer any solutions either, but I find my tolerance for=20
people in that group has dwindled from 90% plus when I was in=20
my 20ies to 10% minus now that I am in my 50ies. And it matters=20
jack-shit to me if they're muslims, baptists, hindus, fascists,=20
socialists, racists, PETAs or whatever. With some of them, the=20
'activists', I feel it would be appropriate to withdraw their=20
membership in the human race and call them 'rogue animals in=20
human form'. And sometimes I wonder if this isn't just an=20
expression of something hardwired in, and activated by too much=20
testosterone or not enough noradrenaline or whatever.
Tolerance for these people, given without reserve, is basically=20
setting yourself up to get your throat cut, as Niem=F6ller found=20
out for himself. But cutting their throat first is putting=20
yourself on their level. Beats me, this conundrum. Besides,=20
they seem to be in the majority.
Mostly, I shut up around them, and make sure I know where my=20
Big Stick is, or the nearest escape route. It's fscking scary.
Call me an old Hippy (which I am not, and never have been) but=20
'make love not war' seems like a very attractive motto to me,=20
more so now than in the 60ies. Maybe getting laid more often is=20
what these people need.
regds, -Peter
--=20
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
firstname dot lastname at gmail fullstop com
In article <sa-dnb2QpPeoRa_VnZ2dnUVZ_jydnZ2d@comcast.com>,
jbstein2@comcast.net says...
>
> The left is right at all costs. All you need is look at left wing
> socialists like Hitler, Mao, Stalin and so on and you will find the
> blood of many millions on their collective hands.
>
Good lord, but you are a bit confused, aren't you?
Hitler, the left wing socialist. Oh boy. You need an
eddication.
-P.
--
=========================================
firstname dot lastname at gmail fullstop com
In article <70GYj.4138$ah4.2775@flpi148.ffdc.sbc.com>,
lex@ameriflon.com says...
> No -P. you need some education (not eddication)...
> Yup, socialism is left wing...
> Hitler was the head of the national "socialist" party...
> Therefore, Hitler (and the rest) are? That's right, left wing.
Well, Tim, Lex and Jack, you certainly have provided an
educational experience for me.
Now I understand some things a little better. Thank you.
<shakes head, rolls eyes and wanders off in search of a wall to
beat his head against while muttering under his breath>
Since a flamewar in a wood-shop is not a good idea, I shall say
no more.
--
=========================================
firstname dot lastname at gmail fullstop com
In article <BCkZj.1342$N87.710@nlpi068.nbdc.sbc.com>,
lex@ameriflon.com says...
>
> Or are you arguing that because there was private ownership (worthless
> tho it may be) that the Nazi's ran a capitalist system?????
>
Yes, Lex, Nazi Germany was a very capitalist system. It was the
fat cat capitalists who financed the Nazis into power in the
first place, and they had a very priviledged position right
throughout the Nazi regime. That's why a lot of them ended up
either running away to South America or going to jail after the
war. Except for the ones that were so fat that they wouldn't
fit through the jailhouse door. They just kept going.
Worthless? Not to the capitalists of the time. They were
driving the big cars and living in mansions. They had a lot
more liberties than ordinary Germans.
They were even given free slave labour by the Nazis for their
factories, did you know that?
Socialists, Communists, Unionists, Gays, Jews, Gypsies and
Homosexuals under the Nazis were either beaten, sometimes to
death, in the streets by the SA and the SS or arrested and put
into concentration camps. Often first one and then the other.
The "lucky" concentration camp inmates got turned into slaves,
and shipped off to factories and farms and work-camps, and not
killed in the gas chambers.
I grew up in that country. I spent the first 27 years of my
life there, and we were told, in school, every single filthy
detail about what happened, and how, and why, and who did what,
where and when, in order that it should never happen again.
--
=========================================
firstname dot lastname at gmail fullstop com
in 67171 20080521 183046 Fred the Red Shirt <fredfighter@spamcop.net> wrote:
>On May 20, 3:54 pm, Lex <l...@ameriflon.com> wrote:
>> Peter Huebner wrote:
>> > In article <sa-dnb2QpPeoRa_VnZ2dnUVZ_jydn...@comcast.com>,
>> > jbste...@comcast.net says...
>> >> The left is right at all costs. All you need is look at left wing
>> >> socialists like Hitler, Mao, Stalin and so on and you will find the
>> >> blood of many millions on their collective hands.
>>
>> > Good lord, but you are a bit confused, aren't you?
>> > Hitler, the left wing socialist. Oh boy. You need an
>> > eddication.
>>
>> > -P.
>>
>> No -P. you need some education (not eddication)...
>> Yup, socialism is left wing...
>> Hitler was the head of the national "socialist" party...
>> Therefore, Hitler (and the rest) are? That's right, left wing.
>
>The Nationalist Socialist Party was not Socialist. Consider
>that there were at least 4 major private companies making
>aircraft for the Luftwaffe.
Americans can't tell the difference between Socialism & Communism! ;-)
Socialist governments and private enterprise co-exist quite happily in
Western Europe.
N Hurst wrote:
> On May 17, 9:20 pm, B A R R Y <beech23pi...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> In all fairness, it's not like the church has a public budget behind
> it to repair the wear and tear on the parking lot from people using it
> as a driveway.
If the church was in good standing, God would keep it repaired for them.
Robatoy wrote:
> On May 19, 9:12 pm, Peter Huebner <no....@this.address> wrote:
>> In article <a38f0149-3272-4843-b95f-edd9f3bc996b@
>> 27g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, Counterfit...@gmail.com says...> Intolerance, like racism, cuts both ways. I feel the hate
>>
>> [snip]
>>
>> With you all the way, Robert. There is one problem with
>> tolerance, and I may recall Martin Niemöller's famour poem:
>>
> [snipped for brevity]
>
> The Norway story is not unlike what I witnessed in The Netherlands
> during one of my visits. A close friend of mine, one who I went to
> school with in my youth, has, as far as memory serves me, always been
> a gay man. I was always impressed with the way society in that country
> tolerated his life style. During one visit, a few years ago, he shared
> with me the harassment he'd been receiving from muslim youth in
> Amsterdam where he lives.
> Imported hate. Yeehaw.
>
> Personally, I tolerate whatever belief anybody wants to adopt. But,
> just like if somebody wanted to stuff a raw oyster down my throat, I
> also do NOT want their beliefs stuffed down my throat.
>
> I'm tolerant, but don't get in my face.
>
Intolerant of your own face?
"Robatoy" <Counterfitter@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:a38f0149-3272-4843-b95f-edd9f3bc996b@27g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>
> Tolerance is not a set of arbitrarily drawn lines which vary from
> person to person.
> The same man who yells bigotry, calls everybody he disagrees with, a
> leftist.
>
Or a right wing radical. It cuts both ways.
> The right is right, and everybody else is wrong. So much for
> tolerance.
> You want to help the less fortunate? Sorry..you're socialist.
> Yup, the whole world is black and white. For us or against us. No
> middle ground. No tolerance.
The nature of people at large. It well spreads across any demographic,
political, religeous boundry. The most naturally occuring way to shore up
one's own opinion of one's position is to alienate any oposing views. Makes
one feel better inside - expecially if there's a little nagging guilt
somewhere down inside there.
>
> So much for plow shears and splinters in people's eyes.
>
If those principles were not universally true, they never would have
survived the test of time.
--
-Mike-
mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net
On May 20, 9:55 am, Jack Stein <jbste...@comcast.net> wrote:
> Robatoy wrote:
> > Tolerance is not a set of arbitrarily drawn lines which vary from
> > person to person.
> > The same man who yells bigotry, calls everybody he disagrees with, a
> > leftist.
>
> Seems to me the man that yells bigotry is always a left winger calling
> everybody he disagrees with a bigot, and a right winger. One thing the
> Clinton/Obama campaign has brought into clearer view is just how racist
> the left really is.
>
> > The right is right, and everybody else is wrong. So much for
> > tolerance.
>
> The left is right at all costs. All you need is look at left wing
> socialists like Hitler, Mao, Stalin and so on and you will find the
> blood of many millions on their collective hands.
>
> > You want to help the less fortunate? Sorry..you're socialist.
>
> When a socialist wants to help the less fortunate, it always seems to
> SCREW the less fortunate.
>
> > Yup, the whole world is black and white. For us or against us. No
> > middle ground. No tolerance.
>
> Why should one tolerate an ideal that is out to destroy their ideal?
> For a capitalist to tolerate socialism or a socialist to tolerate
> capitalism is silly. They are diabolically opposed. If by tolerate you
> mean don't beat them to death, perhaps, but to tolerate their positions
> or not speak out loudly when they squeal, I don't think so...You sure as
> hell don't, why should anyone else?
>
> > So much for plow shears and splinters in people's eyes.
>
> Well, when the socialists get total control, you won't see Letterman
> bashing their leader every night, nor people owning guns, or competition
> amongst business. Everything will be in total harmony....Or Else!
>
> --
> Jackhttp://jbstein.com
I'm glad I don't live in your head. Everything is upside down or
backwards.
On Sun, 18 May 2008 08:32:30 -0700 (PDT), Hoosierpopi
<gooeytarballs@gmail.com> wrote:
>Another reason this list needs a MODERATOR
There's always one of the 15,000 moderated woodworking websites, or
Vito's moderated woodworking group.
I just skip what I don't want to read. No filters, no killfile, no
autopilot... Stick and rudder, baby! <G>
---------------------------------------------
** http://www.bburke.com/woodworking.html **
---------------------------------------------
When it comes to "discussing" political or religious subjects,
it is best to chose words wisely and use their first / primary
defintions found in any of the common dictionaries - Oxford,
Funk & Wagnell etc. in order to accurately communicate your
views on a subject and avoid misunderstandings. The term
"spin" has shifted from "one interpretation of an ambiguous
event" to "I don't care if the facts contradict what I'm about
to say - in fact I have no idea if there are any facts to support
or negate what I'm about to say - but I want YOU to believe what
I'm about to say is fact - BECAUSE that will benefiit me, or the
people who pay me to "spin" you."
Tolerance n. 1, the character, state, or quaity of beihng tolerant
esp. freedom from bigotry or prejudice
Tolerant adj. disposed to tolerate beliefs, views
Tolerate v.t. 1. allow to be done without active opposition
2. concede, s the right to opinions or participation
source: Funk& Wagnalls Standard English Dictionary 1993 edition
In article <4a09ad1c-d387-49e7-b453-8c869da0f0a9
@z72g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>, Counterfitter@gmail.com says...
> On May 21, 10:36=A0am, al...@webtv.net (Albert Joseph) wrote:
> > Knock it off. Go to a Political room. =A0Lets talk about wood work. =A0=
Al =A0
> >
>=20
> So much for tolerance.
>=20
:-P
<chuckling> -Peter
=20
--=20
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
firstname dot lastname at gmail fullstop com
On May 19, 9:12=A0pm, Peter Huebner <no....@this.address> wrote:
> In article <a38f0149-3272-4843-b95f-edd9f3bc996b@
> 27g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, Counterfit...@gmail.com says...> Intolerance=
, like racism, cuts both ways. I feel the hate
>
> [snip]
>
> With you all the way, Robert. There is one problem with
> tolerance, and I may recall Martin Niem=F6ller's famour poem:
>
[snipped for brevity]
The Norway story is not unlike what I witnessed in The Netherlands
during one of my visits. A close friend of mine, one who I went to
school with in my youth, has, as far as memory serves me, always been
a gay man. I was always impressed with the way society in that country
tolerated his life style. During one visit, a few years ago, he shared
with me the harassment he'd been receiving from muslim youth in
Amsterdam where he lives.
Imported hate. Yeehaw.
Personally, I tolerate whatever belief anybody wants to adopt. But,
just like if somebody wanted to stuff a raw oyster down my throat, I
also do NOT want their beliefs stuffed down my throat.
I'm tolerant, but don't get in my face.
Tom Watson wrote:
<SNIP>
> >
> > "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do
> > nothing. "
> >
> > This is often attributed to Edmund Burke, although later scholars tell
> > us that he never said it.
> >
> > I don't really care if he said it, or not.
> >
> > It needs to be said.
> >
> > It needs to be said over and over and over again.
A lovely sentiment and true as far as it goes. The problem is that
there is not a common definition for "evil". For a conservative
Christian, homosexuality itself is morally evil. That Believer is not
acting with a lack of the highly vaunted "tolerance", they are
acting (or at least the honorable among them) from a position of moral
conviction.
Similarly, a good many people consider recreational drug use,
prostitution, gambling, and the other vices as morally evil, opposing
these not because they are "intolerant" but out of a belief that they
are acting on morally necessary grounds.
Today's debate in the public square is contentious *precisely* because
of the lack of a common definition of what is "good" and "evil". More
to the point, it is contentious because law has been hijacked into the
service of someone's morality. It is ironic, for example, to what the
left wheezes at the right because today's conservatives are applying
law to enforce *their* morality. Why the fuss? This is a well studied
practice (and has been) on the left for decades. The right is merely
drawing from the very same playbook. Once you demand that law encode
morality rather than just defend liberty, all you're left with is a
legal system that pitches and yaws with each political, social, and
fashionable sea change in the larger culture. Is there a conservative
government? Then homosexual marriage will be suppressed. Is there a
liberal government? Then it will be reinstated. This is not law, it is
madness.
For purposes of law, I would be content to have it act only when and
if a particular action harms or threatens another individual. Morality
is a matter of personal belief and practice. It should be debated
regularly and loudly. It should not invoke the force of government to
suppress the currently despised minority. This doesn't mean that
moral/ethical discussions are not important. They are. It just means
that they are not the proper purview of law.
And finally, "tolerance" is vastly overrated. Once upon a time, the
desired virtue was "judgment" or "wisdom". Today, we are constantly
instead hectored about our supposed lack of tolerance. You know what?
I'm not all that tolerant of lots of things. I'm not tolerant of the
vast level of stupidity in the larger culture. I'm not tolerant about
the lack of manners in the culture. I'm not tolerant about any number
of personal behaviors - some mentioned above. But I choose to express
my objections to these behaviors as a private citizen, not invoke the
Big Stick of almighty government to *make* others do (or not do) what
I want. To be truly tolerant is to have no objection to anything
anyone does, and that is a recipe for cultural extinction. But, to use
force to mold the culture into a single vision of what is right and
wrong is similarly and perhaps even a greater threat to cultural
durability...
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Daneliuk tundra@tundraware.com
PGP Key: http://www.tundraware.com/PGP/
Tim Daneliuk wrote:
> Mark & Juanita wrote:
... snip
>>>
>>
>> The left is pretty good at projection: projecting what they would do or
>> want to do, onto the other side.
>
> Just wait until you get President Obama. You are going to see an
> evisceration of the Constitution like hasn't happened since FDR.
> And we have the milquetoast Republicans to thank for this.
>
>
I'm kind of expecting that both the Republican and Democrat parties could
experience a split after this election. Neither one will split before
because neither wants to hand the other a win. However, if you are a
traditional, JFK Democrat, you've got to be appalled at what your party has
become and the ideals that it embraces. Look at the candidates, a
hard-core stalinst and an untested radical from Chicago. ...and there are
leftists on the democrat side that say both Hillary and Obama are too
conservative and not radical enough. On the Republican side, it has
abandoned all ties to small government conservatism and has just decided to
become Democrat-lite. The presidential candidate takes advantage of every
opportunity to poke the conservative base in the eye and sides with the
other side of the aisle more often than his own party. Libs like Olympia
Snow are more liberal than Republican.
Depending on who gets the democrat nomination, you could see either the
more conservative democrats split off and join the new, no-longer
Republican party, or you could see the radicals split off and form the
party of Nader. On the Republican side, the conservative base could well
carve itself off and leave the new republicans to figure out a new base.
The mid-term elections could be quite interesting.
--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough
Peter Huebner wrote:
> In article <sa-dnb2QpPeoRa_VnZ2dnUVZ_jydnZ2d@comcast.com>,
> jbstein2@comcast.net says...
>> The left is right at all costs. All you need is look at left wing
>> socialists like Hitler, Mao, Stalin and so on and you will find the
>> blood of many millions on their collective hands.
>>
>
> Good lord, but you are a bit confused, aren't you?
> Hitler, the left wing socialist. Oh boy. You need an
> eddication.
>
> -P.
>
Hitler was a *collectivist*, as were Mussolini, Stalin, and FDR. Whether
sold under the brand of National Socialism, Facism, Communism, or
Progressivism, all of these groups have an essential common
denominator: They suppress individual freedom in the name of the
larger group/country/tribe.
There are certainly degrees of badness here. Hitler and Stalin took
less than a decade to do tremendous damage whereas FDR's ideas are a
continuous lower grade wound on liberty that has sadly lasted for
decades. But, at their core, all collectivist systems are rooted in a
common kind of mob rule wherein the individual is sacrificed to the
state.
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Daneliuk tundra@tundraware.com
PGP Key: http://www.tundraware.com/PGP/
Ain't a tolerant sorta guy, are you?
Heck of a burden being such a superior individual.
See, I can *accept* that there are people who think different than I do, and
are attracted to activites that I may find unusual or distasteful. I can
even *tolerate* those people, keep company with them to some degree and even
engage them in polite conversation. That does not mean that I *approve* of
the things they say or do.
You get bent out of shape because people do not approve of the same things
that you do, or think the same way you do. Ergo, YOU are the intollerant
one.
I come here to learn about woodworking, not to hear your OT opinions.
How about you becoming more tolerant and accepting and sticking to
woodworking?
<plonk>
"Robatoy" <Counterfitter@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:a38f0149-3272-4843-b95f-edd9f3bc996b@27g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> Intolerance, like racism, cuts both ways. I feel the hate when my
> white ass drives through certain parts of Detroit. I feel the love
> when my Arab tenant in one of my buildings makes his young children
> giggle with delight as he smooches them.
>
> I feel the resentment when one of the members of the congregation
> always shows up early and parks his Mercedes at the entrance of the
> church parking lot so we can all get a good look at his new wheels.
> (We all know he uses illegal/slave labour to achieve his riches.)
>
> I get pissed at people who, in spite of all contrary evidence, still
> think Bush is pretty cool. That right-wing thinking includes
> intolerance of anybody who may have a different (yet often more
> Christlike) viewpoint. The same people will take money away from their
> own poor and sick people to arm Israel, a nation where christianity is
> only partially tolerated because it brings tourism.
>
> Tolerance is not a set of arbitrarily drawn lines which vary from
> person to person.
> The same man who yells bigotry, calls everybody he disagrees with, a
> leftist.
>
> The right is right, and everybody else is wrong. So much for
> tolerance.
> You want to help the less fortunate? Sorry..you're socialist.
> Yup, the whole world is black and white. For us or against us. No
> middle ground. No tolerance.
>
> So much for plow shears and splinters in people's eyes.
>
> r
On Sun, 18 May 2008 09:01:20 -0700 (PDT), Robatoy
<Counterfitter@gmail.com> wrote:
>Listen to BARRY.... "stick & rudder." (NOT to be confused with Dutch
>Rudder.)<G>
Of course, I had to go and Google "Dutch Rudder"...
I'm glad I wasn't drinking anything. <G>
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> Intolerance, like racism, cuts both ways. I feel the hate when my
> white ass drives through certain parts of Detroit. I feel the love
> when my Arab tenant in one of my buildings makes his young children
> giggle with delight as he smooches them.
>
(snip)
Entirely coincidentally, I'm sure, but Dilbert had a great strip on
tolerance yesterday.
http://dilbert.com/2008-05-18/
Mekon
--
Mekon
Jack Stein wrote:
> Robatoy wrote:
>
... snip
>
>> You want to help the less fortunate? Sorry..you're socialist.
>
> When a socialist wants to help the less fortunate, it always seems to
> SCREW the less fortunate.
>
Well, that and when a socialist want to help the less fortunate, they
always want to use other peoples' money to do it.
>> Yup, the whole world is black and white. For us or against us. No
>> middle ground. No tolerance.
>
> Why should one tolerate an ideal that is out to destroy their ideal?
> For a capitalist to tolerate socialism or a socialist to tolerate
> capitalism is silly. They are diabolically opposed. If by tolerate you
> mean don't beat them to death, perhaps, but to tolerate their positions
> or not speak out loudly when they squeal, I don't think so...You sure as
> hell don't, why should anyone else?
>
The word tolerate used to mean "put up with". The modern liberal usage of
the word means to agree, accept, and embrace.
>> So much for plow shears and splinters in people's eyes.
>
> Well, when the socialists get total control, you won't see Letterman
> bashing their leader every night, nor people owning guns, or competition
> amongst business. Everything will be in total harmony....Or Else!
>
The left is pretty good at projection: projecting what they would do or
want to do, onto the other side.
--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough
>
> For purposes of law, I would be content to have it act only when and
> if a particular action harms or threatens another individual. Morality
> is a matter of personal belief and practice. It should be debated
> regularly and loudly. It should not invoke the force of government to
> suppress the currently despised minority. This doesn't mean that
> moral/ethical discussions are not important. They are. It just means
> that they are not the proper purview of law.
>
> I'm not all that tolerant of lots of things. I'm not tolerant of the
> vast level of stupidity in the larger culture. I'm not tolerant about
> the lack of manners in the culture. I'm not tolerant about any number
> of personal behaviors - some mentioned above. But I choose to express
> my objections to these behaviors as a private citizen, not invoke the
> Big Stick of almighty government to *make* others do (or not do) what
> I want.
I'm beginning to be amazed at the amount of stuff we agree on :-).
Luckily, that still leaves a lot to argue about - the devil is in the
details :-).
Robatoy wrote:
> Tolerance is not a set of arbitrarily drawn lines which vary from
> person to person.
> The same man who yells bigotry, calls everybody he disagrees with, a
> leftist.
Seems to me the man that yells bigotry is always a left winger calling
everybody he disagrees with a bigot, and a right winger. One thing the
Clinton/Obama campaign has brought into clearer view is just how racist
the left really is.
> The right is right, and everybody else is wrong. So much for
> tolerance.
The left is right at all costs. All you need is look at left wing
socialists like Hitler, Mao, Stalin and so on and you will find the
blood of many millions on their collective hands.
> You want to help the less fortunate? Sorry..you're socialist.
When a socialist wants to help the less fortunate, it always seems to
SCREW the less fortunate.
> Yup, the whole world is black and white. For us or against us. No
> middle ground. No tolerance.
Why should one tolerate an ideal that is out to destroy their ideal?
For a capitalist to tolerate socialism or a socialist to tolerate
capitalism is silly. They are diabolically opposed. If by tolerate you
mean don't beat them to death, perhaps, but to tolerate their positions
or not speak out loudly when they squeal, I don't think so...You sure as
hell don't, why should anyone else?
> So much for plow shears and splinters in people's eyes.
Well, when the socialists get total control, you won't see Letterman
bashing their leader every night, nor people owning guns, or competition
amongst business. Everything will be in total harmony....Or Else!
--
Jack
http://jbstein.com
On Tue, 20 May 2008 13:12:35 +1200, Peter Huebner
<no.one@this.address> wrote:
>In article <a38f0149-3272-4843-b95f-edd9f3bc996b@
>27g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, Counterfitter@gmail.com says...
>> Intolerance, like racism, cuts both ways. I feel the hate
>[snip]
>
>With you all the way, Robert. There is one problem with
>tolerance, and I may recall Martin Niemöller's famour poem:
>
>When the Nazis came for the communists,
>I remained silent;
>I was not a communist.
>
>When they locked up the social democrats,
>I remained silent;
>I was not a social democrat.
>
>When they came for the trade unionists,
>I did not speak out;
>I was not a trade unionist.
>
>When they came for the Jews,
>I remained silent;
>I wasn't a Jew.
>
>When they came for me,
>there was no one left to speak out.
>
>(he forgot to mention the Gypsies and the homosexuals,
>both of whom should've got a line there)
>
>an interesting discussion kicked off by some gay blogger from
>Norway:
>http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/first_they_came_for_the_gays/
>
>=================
>
>There is an inherent problem with tolerance for people who
>hate, in particular people who hate without any *real reason*
>to do so.
>
>I can't offer any solutions either, but I find my tolerance for
>people in that group has dwindled from 90% plus when I was in
>my 20ies to 10% minus now that I am in my 50ies. And it matters
>jack-shit to me if they're muslims, baptists, hindus, fascists,
>socialists, racists, PETAs or whatever. With some of them, the
>'activists', I feel it would be appropriate to withdraw their
>membership in the human race and call them 'rogue animals in
>human form'. And sometimes I wonder if this isn't just an
>expression of something hardwired in, and activated by too much
>testosterone or not enough noradrenaline or whatever.
>
>Tolerance for these people, given without reserve, is basically
>setting yourself up to get your throat cut, as Niemöller found
>out for himself. But cutting their throat first is putting
>yourself on their level. Beats me, this conundrum. Besides,
>they seem to be in the majority.
>Mostly, I shut up around them, and make sure I know where my
>Big Stick is, or the nearest escape route. It's fscking scary.
>Call me an old Hippy (which I am not, and never have been) but
>'make love not war' seems like a very attractive motto to me,
>more so now than in the 60ies. Maybe getting laid more often is
>what these people need.
>
>regds, -Peter
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do
nothing. "
This is often attributed to Edmund Burke, although later scholars tell
us that he never said it.
I don't really care if he said it, or not.
It needs to be said.
It needs to be said over and over and over again.
Tom Watson
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet
www.home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1
On Sun, 18 May 2008 09:01:20 -0700 (PDT), Robatoy
<Counterfitter@gmail.com> wrote:
>Listen to BARRY.... "stick & rudder." (NOT to be confused with Dutch
>Rudder.)<G>
<http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=dutch+rudder>
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>> > I feel the resentment when one of the members of the congregation
>> > always shows up early and parks his Mercedes at the entrance of the
>> > church parking lot so we can all get a good look at his new wheels.
My favorite family-owned landscaper / garden shop shares a "curb cut"
on a major road with a Baptist church.
The church is on a corner, the garden shop is one lot down.
The church has placed all sorts of "Do Not Enter" and "No Parking"
signs along the 150' paved border (shared parking lot), to prevent
customers of the garden shop from parking or driving through the
church lot at any time. This forces the garden shop customers to make
a left turn out onto a road that averages 55-60 MPH, to drive 50 feet
to a light. The safest way to exit the lot would be to travel through
the church lot (as was done when the property housed busses) and turn
left on the road. Here's a Google Earth shot:
<http://maps.google.com/maps?q=uncle+bob's+garden+shop&ie=UTF8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&ll=41.544947,-72.710223&spn=0.002148,0.003648&t=h&z=18.
99% of the time (far less than with school busses), the church lot is
empty.
The "church" used to be a school bus depot.
The garden shop is to the right of center, the church is the bigger
building to the left. CT residents familiar with Rt. 66 would know
the "Red Dog Cafe" just off the upper left corner of the intersection.
Tolerance? I don't get it...
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