Popular Woodworking's November issue reviewed the Firestorm Plunge
Router (FS122RP) and it sounded like a good option for my small shop. I
was able to find it on the Black and Decker website, but have not been
able to find it anywhere for sale. Has anyone seen one of these
anywhere? Even my e-mails to Black and Decker and Lowes have not been
answered.
Thanks,
Richard
If me I would look further for a router than anything from Black and Decker.
Unless you want something to throw away next year or even less. If you try
to sell that stuff, no one wants it and it is not really to good for more
than a very occasional use. Sorry to be so cruel about Black and Deckers
stuff . Check out Porter Cable, Dewalt, Old Milwaukee or my favorite Bosch.
"Richard" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Popular Woodworking's November issue reviewed the Firestorm Plunge
> Router (FS122RP) and it sounded like a good option for my small shop. I
>
> was able to find it on the Black and Decker website, but have not been
> able to find it anywhere for sale. Has anyone seen one of these
> anywhere? Even my e-mails to Black and Decker and Lowes have not been
> answered.
>
> Thanks,
> Richard
>
On Nov 9, 9:05 pm, "CW" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hmm. Three routers and a can of beer.
>
> "Jerry Dickens" <[email protected]> wrote in messagenews:[email protected]...
> > Check out Porter Cable, Dewalt, Old Milwaukee or my favorite Bosch.
I thought Porter was some sort of beer as well?
r
> If me I would look further for a router than anything from Black and Decker.
> Unless you want something to throw away next year or even less. If you try
> to sell that stuff, no one wants it and it is not really to good for more
> than a very occasional use. Sorry to be so cruel about Black and Deckers
> stuff . Check out Porter Cable, Dewalt, Old Milwaukee or my favorite Bosch.
I second that notion. Firestorm is made for wives to get their husbands
for Christmas. Not woodworker's wives, they know better. It's for the
handyman's wife who doesn't even know what a router does.
It's not just a question of longevity, you won't get good results from
it either. You'd think that a router is such a simple device; all it
does is spin a bit. How can one be worth so much more than another?
Just get your hands on a pro-quality machine to understand. If money
is the main issue, I'd rather buy a good used router on Ebay than a
Firestorm.
DonkeyHody
"Every man is my superior in that I can learn from him." - Thomas
Carlyle
On Nov 9, 4:35 pm, "Richard" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Popular Woodworking's November issue reviewed the Firestorm Plunge
> Router (FS122RP) and it sounded like a good option for my small shop.
I'm telling you. You won't be happy. I had one in my hands, and
thought; "they oughta be held accountable for putting out such inferior
junk. What I don't get, is that, as a brand, B & D must have a huge
value. Why are they doing this?
>I was able to find it on the Black and Decker website, but have not been
> able to find it anywhere for sale. Has anyone seen one of these
> anywhere? Even my e-mails to Black and Decker and Lowes have not been
> answered.
That will give you some insight what their custome service will be like
once something happens to it.
Buy a Hitachi M12V while they still make them. I have been beating the
crap out of several of them and none have even hiccup'd under the
stress. One I use for very accurate seaming joints in solid surface
countertops and it has no measurable runout after 3 years. It gets used
almost daily. They are under $200 US, and are a full 3.25 HP and soft
start and variable speed and have a VERY powerful motor. It doesn't
have the fit and finish of other serious routers, but it is good value,
IMHO.
There's a saying around here: Cry once.
r
Jerry Dickens wrote:
> For my first router I would look for a smaller horsepower than 3 HP. for a
> hand held router that is a lot to hold. I rather use something that large in
> a table. That is me. For hand held 1 3/4 to 2 1/4 is big enough. I have a
> Porter Cable and a Bosch I do this with and they are both great great
> routers. I am not saying anything bad about the M12V I would buy one myslef
> if I could find one on ebay. But I would use it only in a router table.
See, I disagree. If you're going to have one router, get one that does
it all.
It's physical size is not that much bigger than that B&D the OP was
looking at.
Also, it comes with a quality 1/2" bit and guide bushing. The one thing
I like about it, it has great visibility under the motor, so you can
keep a close eye on what you're doing in a hand-held situation.
I think it is the perfect router for a beginner. I appreciate the
'handiness' of smaller routers ( I have several) but that's because
there is no point in using a big router if all it is going to do is run
a 1/4" roundover bit.
The same rules of caution still apply to all routers, so why not get
one which can actually DO some work?
I know that half of the Wreck is probably going to disagree, but I
think that 3.25 HP is just the right amount of power.
Ever try to learn to waterski behind an underpowered boat? No fun. Zero.
On Nov 10, 9:47 am, <[email protected]> wrote:
> First of all any descent woodworking nerd, has more than one router. As I
> see you do also.
Yup, in fact, I am down to 7 routers.
> Second, for a first router, you don't want to scare the person away or
> scare them with fear from using such a powerful machine. SAFETY SAFETY
> SAFETY first always. Let the person learn with something they will not be
> afraid off.
I'd be afraid of that B&D. I think that when a new user applies all
proper precautions, there will be no difference in safety between a big
and small router. I tend to believe that if a router safety issue comes
down to the wire, the heftier one will be safer. Its mass gives a
certain amount of stability.
Its mechanical impedence gives a cleaner cut than a lighter weight
unit.
I have a few Milwaukee routers. One is a 2 1/4 HP and has all the balls
one would need for most hand-held jobs. It doesn't plunge, and
shouldn't really run raised panel bits or 1-1/2 bullnose bits. One is a
1 3/4 HP unit, not variable speed, kick-start. It has only had one bit
in it...it only does one job. It does it well and often. Then there is
Milwaukee's Finest. Big Mama, being built into a table. The height can
be adjusted from the top. I like that. I just bought it, so I haven't
had a a chance to give it a serious workout. I will be making doors and
stuff for a wall unit.. A job I took on for a friend..WTF was I
thinking. LOL.
> Third, yes the 1/2 collet is nice but most people do not have 1/2" router
> bits. Most have the 1/4".
I have a collection of both 1/2 and 1/4. Totally different bits. I use
the 1/4 in two laminate trimmers I have, both Ridgid..... here's one
for you... I have a 1/4" shaft 5/16 roundover and a 1/2 shaft 5/16
roundover. Less chatter on the 1/2"...in the same router, but that
could be the bit manufacturer and sharpness difference as well.
> Fourth, My Bosch, my two old crapsman, and my Porter Cable have a good
> view when operating the router. So Hitachi does not have the market corned
> on that feature.
I hope I didn't imply that the Hitachi has the market cornered on
visibility, I cetainly did not mean to.
> Fifth, Happy Routing!!"
You too... and be careful out there!
r
JES wrote:
[snipped for brevity]
>
> Reheeely?
>
hehehehe...O RLY??
Did you get a load of this one?
http://www.hitachi-koki.com/powertools/products/cutter/m12v2/m12v2.html
Same router, different pants. Looks like something you'd use to
inoculate
an alien rhinoceros. Those Hitachi (pronounced hitaCHEE (gesundheid))
designers
have been watching too many anime cartoons.
All their new tools are...well... RFU. (I don't mean that in a bad
way.)
r
Robatoy wrote:
> hehehehe...O RLY??
YA RLY. (I feel the overwhelming urge to post a picture of an owl for
some reason)
> Looks like something you'd use to
> inoculate
> an alien rhinoceros.
People have been describing them as sneakers. :-) Seems fitting to
me.
>Those Hitachi (pronounced hitaCHEE (gesundheid))
> designers
> have been watching too many anime cartoons.
> All their new tools are...well... RFU. (I don't mean that in a bad
> way.)
I have their new 18v cordless drill sneaker and matching flashlight.
I'm happy with it so far.
brian
Robatoy wrote:
> hehehehe...O RLY??
YA RLY. (I feel the overwhelming urge to post a picture of an owl for
some reason)
> Looks like something you'd use to
> inoculate
> an alien rhinoceros.
People have been describing them as sneakers. :-) Seems fitting to
me.
>Those Hitachi (pronounced hitaCHEE (gesundheid))
> designers
> have been watching too many anime cartoons.
> All their new tools are...well... RFU. (I don't mean that in a bad
> way.)
I have their new 18v cordless drill sneaker and matching flashlight.
I'm happy with it so far.
brian
Richard wrote:
> Popular Woodworking's November issue reviewed the Firestorm Plunge
> Router (FS122RP) and it sounded like a good option for my small shop. I
>
> was able to find it on the Black and Decker website, but have not been
> able to find it anywhere for sale. Has anyone seen one of these
> anywhere? Even my e-mails to Black and Decker and Lowes have not been
> answered.
>
> Thanks,
> Richard
>
Are you sure it is not the same as the FS1200RP available at Lowe's here:
http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=154883-79992-FS1200RP&lpage=none
Yes realy. It must be a real bitch going through life helpless.
http://www.hitachipowertools.com/store_list.php?&iDepartmentID=12&arrPath=1,12,
"JES" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Reheeely?
>
CW wrote:
> I just checked Amazon and they have them as do several other places. They
> are also listed on Hitachi's site. I guess the factory hasn't heard the same
> thing that you have.
>
> "Ogee" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> They don't make them anymore...:-(
>> Amazon is out of them, but there are a few available on eBay still.
>> I just bought a couple, because I do not want to buy the Hitachi
>> replacement...
>
Reheeely?
Have a look again:
<URL:http://www.amazon.com/Hitachi-M12V-Electronic-Variable-Plunge/dp/B0000223K9/sr=8-5/qid=1163404474/ref=sr_1_5/104-1009094-6471921?ie=UTF8&s=hi>
<URL:http://www.hitachi-koki.com/powertools/products/othercutting.html>
CW wrote:
> I just checked Amazon and they have them as do several other places. They
> are also listed on Hitachi's site. I guess the factory hasn't heard the same
> thing that you have.
>
> "Ogee" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> They don't make them anymore...:-(
>> Amazon is out of them, but there are a few available on eBay still.
>> I just bought a couple, because I do not want to buy the Hitachi
>> replacement...
>
>
Reheeely?
Have a look again:
<URL:http://www.amazon.com/Hitachi-M12V-Electronic-Variable-Plunge/dp/B000...>
<URL:http://www.hitachi-koki.com/powertools/products/othercutting.html>
I do the same as you but the 10 or 15 other shops I have been in or garages
making due as shops, in the router bit department are usually 1/4" diameter
bits.
"B A R R Y" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> [email protected] wrote:
> > Third, yes the 1/2 collet is nice but most people do not have 1/2"
router
> > bits. Most have the 1/4".
>
> Speak for yourself.
>
> About 80% of my bits are 1/2", about 10-12% are 1/4", and the erst are
8mm.
>
> The only time I'll buy a 1/4" shank bit is if I plan on using it in my
> laminate trimmer (ex:// small roundovers and chamfer bits), or it
> clearly makes no sense to buy the 1/2" shank (ex:// solid carbide 1/4"
> or smaller straight bit).
Robatoy wrote:
>
> On Nov 9, 4:35 pm, "Richard" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Popular Woodworking's November issue reviewed the Firestorm Plunge
>> Router (FS122RP) and it sounded like a good option for my small shop.
>
> I'm telling you. You won't be happy. I had one in my hands, and
> thought; "they oughta be held accountable for putting out such inferior
> junk. What I don't get, is that, as a brand, B & D must have a huge
> value. Why are they doing this?
>
>> I was able to find it on the Black and Decker website, but have not been
>> able to find it anywhere for sale. Has anyone seen one of these
>> anywhere? Even my e-mails to Black and Decker and Lowes have not been
>> answered.
>
> That will give you some insight what their custome service will be like
> once something happens to it.
>
> Buy a Hitachi M12V while they still make them.
They don't make them anymore...:-(
Amazon is out of them, but there are a few available on eBay still.
I just bought a couple, because I do not want to buy the Hitachi
replacement...
Robatoy wrote:
>
> On Nov 9, 9:05 pm, "CW" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Hmm. Three routers and a can of beer.
>>
>> "Jerry Dickens" <[email protected]> wrote in messagenews:[email protected]...
>> > Check out Porter Cable, Dewalt, Old Milwaukee or my favorite Bosch.
>
> I thought Porter was some sort of beer as well?
>
Bosch doesn't make beer? They make everything else!
[email protected] wrote:
> Third, yes the 1/2 collet is nice but most people do not have 1/2" router
> bits. Most have the 1/4".
Speak for yourself.
About 80% of my bits are 1/2", about 10-12% are 1/4", and the erst are 8mm.
The only time I'll buy a 1/4" shank bit is if I plan on using it in my
laminate trimmer (ex:// small roundovers and chamfer bits), or it
clearly makes no sense to buy the 1/2" shank (ex:// solid carbide 1/4"
or smaller straight bit).
"Jerry Dickens" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> For my first router I would look for a smaller horsepower than 3 HP.
> for a hand held router that is a lot to hold. I rather use something
> that large in a table. That is me. For hand held 1 3/4 to 2 1/4 is big
> enough. I have a Porter Cable and a Bosch I do this with and they are
> both great great routers. I am not saying anything bad about the M12V
> I would buy one myslef if I could find one on ebay. But I would use it
> only in a router table.
Then go look for a good Porter Cable 690 series variable speed router. Not
an 890 series. The 690 has been around for decades, it seems, and works
well for almost everything, in my experience.
My first router was a 3.25 HP beast, now bolted into a table, where it
works quite well. NOT a handheld joy to use.
Patriarch
Uh, yes I am hen pecked, I will have to talk to the wife about this. I sure
would like to have one. I would also have to buy a new router plate for my
table. I have my Porter Cable in there now. I will have to check on all this
before talking to wife. Only want to have to do this once so I need to have
all my facts before hand. :-) Oh thanks for the heads up!
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Jerry Dickens wrote:
> > I am not saying anything bad about the M12V I would buy one myslef
> > if I could find one on ebay.
>
> Some guy has 10 for sale:
>
http://home.search.ebay.com/_Routers-Bits-Accessories_W0QQcatrefZC12QQsacatZ
71305QQsassZbestdealQ5falways
>
For my first router I would look for a smaller horsepower than 3 HP. for a
hand held router that is a lot to hold. I rather use something that large in
a table. That is me. For hand held 1 3/4 to 2 1/4 is big enough. I have a
Porter Cable and a Bosch I do this with and they are both great great
routers. I am not saying anything bad about the M12V I would buy one myslef
if I could find one on ebay. But I would use it only in a router table.
"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> On Nov 9, 4:35 pm, "Richard" <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Popular Woodworking's November issue reviewed the Firestorm Plunge
> > Router (FS122RP) and it sounded like a good option for my small shop.
>
> I'm telling you. You won't be happy. I had one in my hands, and
> thought; "they oughta be held accountable for putting out such inferior
> junk. What I don't get, is that, as a brand, B & D must have a huge
> value. Why are they doing this?
>
> >I was able to find it on the Black and Decker website, but have not been
> > able to find it anywhere for sale. Has anyone seen one of these
> > anywhere? Even my e-mails to Black and Decker and Lowes have not been
> > answered.
>
> That will give you some insight what their custome service will be like
> once something happens to it.
>
> Buy a Hitachi M12V while they still make them. I have been beating the
> crap out of several of them and none have even hiccup'd under the
> stress. One I use for very accurate seaming joints in solid surface
> countertops and it has no measurable runout after 3 years. It gets used
> almost daily. They are under $200 US, and are a full 3.25 HP and soft
> start and variable speed and have a VERY powerful motor. It doesn't
> have the fit and finish of other serious routers, but it is good value,
> IMHO.
>
> There's a saying around here: Cry once.
>
> r
>
First of all any descent woodworking nerd, has more than one router. As I
see you do also.
Second, for a first router, you don't want to scare the person away or
scare them with fear from using such a powerful machine. SAFETY SAFETY
SAFETY first always. Let the person learn with something they will not be
afraid off.
Third, yes the 1/2 collet is nice but most people do not have 1/2" router
bits. Most have the 1/4".
Fourth, My Bosch, my two old crapsman, and my Porter Cable have a good
view when operating the router. So Hitachi does not have the market corned
on that feature.
Fifth, Happy Routing!!
"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Jerry Dickens wrote:
> > For my first router I would look for a smaller horsepower than 3 HP. for
a
> > hand held router that is a lot to hold. I rather use something that
large in
> > a table. That is me. For hand held 1 3/4 to 2 1/4 is big enough. I have
a
> > Porter Cable and a Bosch I do this with and they are both great great
> > routers. I am not saying anything bad about the M12V I would buy one
myslef
> > if I could find one on ebay. But I would use it only in a router table.
>
> See, I disagree. If you're going to have one router, get one that does
> it all.
> It's physical size is not that much bigger than that B&D the OP was
> looking at.
> Also, it comes with a quality 1/2" bit and guide bushing. The one thing
> I like about it, it has great visibility under the motor, so you can
> keep a close eye on what you're doing in a hand-held situation.
> I think it is the perfect router for a beginner. I appreciate the
> 'handiness' of smaller routers ( I have several) but that's because
> there is no point in using a big router if all it is going to do is run
> a 1/4" roundover bit.
> The same rules of caution still apply to all routers, so why not get
> one which can actually DO some work?
>
> I know that half of the Wreck is probably going to disagree, but I
> think that 3.25 HP is just the right amount of power.
>
> Ever try to learn to waterski behind an underpowered boat? No fun. Zero.
>
"Toller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Richard" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Popular Woodworking's November issue reviewed the Firestorm Plunge
>> Router (FS122RP) and it sounded like a good option for my small shop. I
>>
>> was able to find it on the Black and Decker website, but have not been
>> able to find it anywhere for sale. Has anyone seen one of these
>> anywhere? Even my e-mails to Black and Decker and Lowes have not been
>> answered.
>>
> I bought a couple B&D ROS at Lowes a year ago for almost nothing.
> Figured, how bad can they be? I tried them and haven't used them since.
> They work, sort of. I don't look for that in a router.
A Bosch Colt isn't a whole heck of a lot more expensive (I don't care how
cheap the B&D is, the Colt's not a lot more expensive). It's not a "do it
all" machine, but it will do a lot and it's small and light and will be
useful even if one obtains a larger router later.
Hmm. Three routers and a can of beer.
"Jerry Dickens" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Check out Porter Cable, Dewalt, Old Milwaukee or my favorite Bosch.
>
"Richard" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Popular Woodworking's November issue reviewed the Firestorm Plunge
> Router (FS122RP) and it sounded like a good option for my small shop. I
>
> was able to find it on the Black and Decker website, but have not been
> able to find it anywhere for sale. Has anyone seen one of these
> anywhere? Even my e-mails to Black and Decker and Lowes have not been
> answered.
>
I bought a couple B&D ROS at Lowes a year ago for almost nothing. Figured,
how bad can they be? I tried them and haven't used them since. They work,
sort of. I don't look for that in a router.
J. Clarke wrote:
> A Bosch Colt isn't a whole heck of a lot more expensive (I don't care how
> cheap the B&D is, the Colt's not a lot more expensive). It's not a "do it
> all" machine, but it will do a lot and it's small and light and will be
> useful even if one obtains a larger router later.
I'll second that recommendation over the B&D.
I've been using a Bosch laminate trimmer for years as a small router,
and the Colt is a far nicer tool than the older version that I own.
One of these days, I need to get the aftermarket plunge base for the
Bosch and I'll have a really fantastic inlay router.
I just checked Amazon and they have them as do several other places. They
are also listed on Hitachi's site. I guess the factory hasn't heard the same
thing that you have.
"Ogee" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> They don't make them anymore...:-(
> Amazon is out of them, but there are a few available on eBay still.
> I just bought a couple, because I do not want to buy the Hitachi
> replacement...