Question about joinery

>First of all, I wouldn't include biscuits as a type of joinery

> It's hard to imagine them adding a
> lot of strength to, say, a table top, since they wouldn't be adding that
> much surface area.

> Well, I'm mostly going by what has been posted here.

For a glued up panel, whether you use biscuits, tongue and groove, splines,
dowel's,or nothing but glue, the subject of strength is immaterial since a
properly jointed, glued, and clamped panel is already as strong as the
species of wood will allow.

Using a glued up panel as a basis for saying that biscuits shouldn't be
considered as a type of joinery not to mention it not adding much surface or
strength to a panel (IE table top) is a pure case of ignorance is bliss and
I'd have to opine that if think you are going by what you see posted here
you probably should get some reading glasses before some other newbie thinks
you know what you are talking about..

.

--
Mike G.
[email protected]
Heirloom Woods
www.heirloom-woods.net
"Todd Fatheree" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Hylourgos" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > "Todd Fatheree" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>...
> > > "Alexander Galkin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > news:[email protected]...
> > > > As my woodworking skills improve I slowly move into cabinetmaking.
> > > > Cabinetmaking involves a lot of joinery. I am trying to realize what
> > > joinery
> > > > method is best an when. As far as I understand there are pocket hole
> > > > joinery, mortise-and-tenon, dowel and biscuit. To me dowel and
biscuit
> > > seem
> > > > to be the easiest and quickest. I understand that smallest biscuits
> are 2"
> > > > wide so they cannot be used to join narrow stock. Do these two
methods
> > > have
> > > > drawbacks and which situations when they are not good choice. I
> already
> > > have
> > > > PC Biscuit Joiner and feel pretty comfortable using it. I do not
have
> > > > doweling jig but it is not expensive so I can buy it if necessary.
Any
> > > > advise would be appreciated.
> > >
> > > First of all, I wouldn't include biscuits as a type of joinery. They
> help
> > > with alignment, but don't really add strength, which is what joinery
is
> all
> > > about. From what I read, dowels can be a real challenge when the
> alignment
> > > is not right on (ok, so what isn't). Pocket holes have their place,
but
> > > personally, I wouldn't use them on "fine" furniture (but in my mind,
> they're
> > > a dream when building face frames). To add to your list, I'm taking a
> > > woodworking class right now and the main guy there really likes the
use
> of
> > > splines. You really can't go wrong with the old standby, the mortise
> and
> > > tenon. Many people who hang around here seem to be happy with a loose
> tenon
> > > system as well. As you hint at, every joinery method has its place.
> > >
> > > todd
> >
> > FWW, FWW (how's that for use of acronyms?) April 2001, #148 determined
> > that biscuit joints were among the strongest of all types of joinery
> > (the were *the* strongest in FWW's stress tests).
> >
> > H
>
It would be
> interesting to see the methodology of their tests. As with pocket holes,
> I'd leave them out of really nice stuff. For something like a face
frame, it just seems easier to
> use a pocket hole. Ah, well...to each his own. If it works for you
(that's
> the communal "you"), go with it.
>
> todd
>
>

Todd
Mayhaps you oughta hang around here a bit more and get to know who's
who before casting your aspersions.

Renata

On Sun, 16 May 2004 20:30:18 -0500, "Todd Fatheree"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Way to ignore my main point, which was that there have been plenty of other
>posts here that supported what I said. I didn't just make it up. There
>have been posts on both sides. You don't agree, fine. You want to look
>like a big man by trying to put me down, feel free if that's what you're
>into. I've said that I was repeating what I believed the preponderance of
>posts on the subject to be. I've since said that upon further review, the
>posts on the subject are more mixed.
-snip-
>
>todd
>
>"Mike G" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
-snip-
>>
>> Some poor slob may take your bad advice as some sort of fact.
>>
>> YOU wouldn't include biscuits as a type of joinery? GMAFB.
>>
>> You want to play the game don't go whiney when your hand gets called.
>>
>> --
>> Mike G.
>> [email protected]
>> Heirloom Woods
>> www.heirloom-woods.net
>> "Todd Fatheree" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>> > "Mike G" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> > news:[email protected]...
>> > > >First of all, I wouldn't include biscuits as a type of joinery
>> > >
>> > > > It's hard to imagine them adding a
>> > > > lot of strength to, say, a table top, since they wouldn't be adding
>> that
>> > > > much surface area.
>> > >
>> > > > Well, I'm mostly going by what has been posted here.
>> > >
>> > > For a glued up panel, whether you use biscuits, tongue and groove,
>> > splines,
>> > > dowel's,or nothing but glue, the subject of strength is immaterial
>since
>> a
>> > > properly jointed, glued, and clamped panel is already as strong as the
>> > > species of wood will allow.
>> > >
>> > > Using a glued up panel as a basis for saying that biscuits shouldn't
>be
>> > > considered as a type of joinery not to mention it not adding much
>> surface
>> > or
>> > > strength to a panel (IE table top) is a pure case of ignorance is
>bliss
>> > and
>> > > I'd have to opine that if think you are going by what you see posted
>> here
>> > > you probably should get some reading glasses before some other newbie
>> > thinks
>> > > you know what you are talking about..
>> > > --
>> > > Mike G.
>> >
>> > If you'd like, I can point you to many discussions on the rec regarding
>> the
>> > use of biscuits and their impact on joint strength. Better yet, DAGS in
>> the
>> > rec archives and you can find them for yourself. Personally, I don't
>use
>> a
>> > lot of pressed wood in my construction, so I don't find it an issue.
>It's
>> > interesting that you feel the need to belittle me rather than just state
>> > your opinion with facts to support it, like charlie did. I'll admit
>that
>> > after going back and reading through some of the archives that there is
>> more
>> > of a mix of opinion on the rec regarding biscuits and their
>> strength-adding
>> > properties than I recollected. Happy, now, Mike?
>> >
>> > todd
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>

Tim Rohrer wrote:
>
> I have not bought this yet but it is where I intend to start: "The Complete
> Illustrated Guide to Joinery" by Gary Rogowski. I have it on my Amazon wish
> list if anyone wants to buy it for me :)
>

Di Cristoforo's (sp?) book on joinery probably has every joint you
can
think of and many you'd probably never think of. The illustrations
are exellent.

Tage Frid's WW 1 & 2 did have a joint I'd not seen anywhere else -
a tapered slip joint - the taper being towards the outside face
of the joint. Used when veneering spans joints with grain running
90 degrees to each other.

Tage Frid's books shows not only the various joining methods, but
also the sequence of cuts - very handy to know what the joint
looks like AND how to cut it.

Both books use line drawings to illustrate the joints. Today
colored photographs seem to have replaced line drawings -
and often don't illustrate what you really need to see as
well as a good line drawing can. The emphasis seems to be
on the "sizzle" and not the "steak".

The really handy thing about traditional joinery is that you
can dry fit parts - and in some cases, the entire piece
BEFORE committing to glue or screws. The 7 drawers in
my drill press cabinet work well and still haven't been
glued together after two years of use.

charlie b

Hylourgos wrote:

> FWW, FWW (how's that for use of acronyms?) April 2001, #148 determined
> that biscuit joints were among the strongest of all types of joinery
> (the were *the* strongest in FWW's stress tests).
>
> H

As I recall the FWW test was as shown below.

<------+--+ Force applied to this part
| |
| |
| +----------+
+--+----------+ This part held fixed

That really doesn't deal with twisting or compression - just
racking.
And I think they used two biscuits not one.

One of the recent woodworking magazines - with several articles
on mortise and tenon joinery - used the Dropped Anvil Test on
small simple tables. The bicsuited table failed on the first drop -
at the leg to apron joint. The M&T table top split on the second
or third drop.

Now when they come up with an attractive "through biscuit"
joint ...

charlie b

For cabinet making, all have a place.
Many like the pocket hole screws for face frames. Dowels have been used for
this for years and is quite simple.
Biscuits work well for many type of joints but work very well for joining
panels. I'm a fan of dowels for face frames only because I've been doing it
so long. Maybe I'll switch to a pocket hole screw system... maybe.

Dave


"Alexander Galkin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> As my woodworking skills improve I slowly move into cabinetmaking.
> Cabinetmaking involves a lot of joinery. I am trying to realize what
joinery
> method is best an when. As far as I understand there are pocket hole
> joinery, mortise-and-tenon, dowel and biscuit. To me dowel and biscuit
seem
> to be the easiest and quickest. I understand that smallest biscuits are 2"
> wide so they cannot be used to join narrow stock. Do these two methods
have
> drawbacks and which situations when they are not good choice. I already
have
> PC Biscuit Joiner and feel pretty comfortable using it. I do not have
> doweling jig but it is not expensive so I can buy it if necessary. Any
> advise would be appreciated.
>
>




----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---

"Todd Fatheree" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> "Alexander Galkin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > As my woodworking skills improve I slowly move into cabinetmaking.
> > Cabinetmaking involves a lot of joinery. I am trying to realize what
> joinery
> > method is best an when. As far as I understand there are pocket hole
> > joinery, mortise-and-tenon, dowel and biscuit. To me dowel and biscuit
> seem
> > to be the easiest and quickest. I understand that smallest biscuits are 2"
> > wide so they cannot be used to join narrow stock. Do these two methods
> have
> > drawbacks and which situations when they are not good choice. I already
> have
> > PC Biscuit Joiner and feel pretty comfortable using it. I do not have
> > doweling jig but it is not expensive so I can buy it if necessary. Any
> > advise would be appreciated.
>
> First of all, I wouldn't include biscuits as a type of joinery. They help
> with alignment, but don't really add strength, which is what joinery is all
> about. From what I read, dowels can be a real challenge when the alignment
> is not right on (ok, so what isn't). Pocket holes have their place, but
> personally, I wouldn't use them on "fine" furniture (but in my mind, they're
> a dream when building face frames). To add to your list, I'm taking a
> woodworking class right now and the main guy there really likes the use of
> splines. You really can't go wrong with the old standby, the mortise and
> tenon. Many people who hang around here seem to be happy with a loose tenon
> system as well. As you hint at, every joinery method has its place.
>
> todd

FWW, FWW (how's that for use of acronyms?) April 2001, #148 determined
that biscuit joints were among the strongest of all types of joinery
(the were *the* strongest in FWW's stress tests).

H

"Hylourgos" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Todd Fatheree" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> > "Alexander Galkin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > As my woodworking skills improve I slowly move into cabinetmaking.
> > > Cabinetmaking involves a lot of joinery. I am trying to realize what
> > joinery
> > > method is best an when. As far as I understand there are pocket hole
> > > joinery, mortise-and-tenon, dowel and biscuit. To me dowel and biscuit
> > seem
> > > to be the easiest and quickest. I understand that smallest biscuits
are 2"
> > > wide so they cannot be used to join narrow stock. Do these two methods
> > have
> > > drawbacks and which situations when they are not good choice. I
already
> > have
> > > PC Biscuit Joiner and feel pretty comfortable using it. I do not have
> > > doweling jig but it is not expensive so I can buy it if necessary. Any
> > > advise would be appreciated.
> >
> > First of all, I wouldn't include biscuits as a type of joinery. They
help
> > with alignment, but don't really add strength, which is what joinery is
all
> > about. From what I read, dowels can be a real challenge when the
alignment
> > is not right on (ok, so what isn't). Pocket holes have their place, but
> > personally, I wouldn't use them on "fine" furniture (but in my mind,
they're
> > a dream when building face frames). To add to your list, I'm taking a
> > woodworking class right now and the main guy there really likes the use
of
> > splines. You really can't go wrong with the old standby, the mortise
and
> > tenon. Many people who hang around here seem to be happy with a loose
tenon
> > system as well. As you hint at, every joinery method has its place.
> >
> > todd
>
> FWW, FWW (how's that for use of acronyms?) April 2001, #148 determined
> that biscuit joints were among the strongest of all types of joinery
> (the were *the* strongest in FWW's stress tests).
>
> H

Well, I'm mostly going by what has been posted here. It would be
interesting to see the methodology of their tests. As with pocket holes,
I'd leave them out of really nice stuff. It's hard to imagine them adding a
lot of strength to, say, a table top, since they wouldn't be adding that
much surface area. For something like a face frame, it just seems easier to
use a pocket hole. Ah, well...to each his own. If it works for you (that's
the communal "you"), go with it.

todd

I have not bought this yet but it is where I intend to start: "The Complete
Illustrated Guide to Joinery" by Gary Rogowski. I have it on my Amazon wish
list if anyone wants to buy it for me :)

Wr, Tim
--
Tim Rohrer
[email protected]
Check out our family home page at http://www.metbymail.com
Check out our home business at http://www.unitoday.net/invitamin


On 5/15/04 20:01, in article [email protected], "Alexander
Galkin" <[email protected]> wrote:

> As my woodworking skills improve I slowly move into cabinetmaking.
> Cabinetmaking involves a lot of joinery. I am trying to realize what joinery
> method is best an when. As far as I understand there are pocket hole
> joinery, mortise-and-tenon, dowel and biscuit. To me dowel and biscuit seem
> to be the easiest and quickest. I understand that smallest biscuits are 2"
> wide so they cannot be used to join narrow stock. Do these two methods have
> drawbacks and which situations when they are not good choice. I already have
> PC Biscuit Joiner and feel pretty comfortable using it. I do not have
> doweling jig but it is not expensive so I can buy it if necessary. Any
> advise would be appreciated.
>
>

Thrilled

As for belittling, you managed that yourself.with the your statements which
I prefaced my post with.

I just have a problem not pointing out when someone is blowing smoke up the
groups ass and making like they knew what they were talking about. Possibly
even having actual experience on the subject they were pontification about.

Some poor slob may take your bad advice as some sort of fact.

YOU wouldn't include biscuits as a type of joinery? GMAFB.

You want to play the game don't go whiney when your hand gets called.

--
Mike G.
[email protected]
Heirloom Woods
www.heirloom-woods.net
"Todd Fatheree" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Mike G" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > >First of all, I wouldn't include biscuits as a type of joinery
> >
> > > It's hard to imagine them adding a
> > > lot of strength to, say, a table top, since they wouldn't be adding
that
> > > much surface area.
> >
> > > Well, I'm mostly going by what has been posted here.
> >
> > For a glued up panel, whether you use biscuits, tongue and groove,
> splines,
> > dowel's,or nothing but glue, the subject of strength is immaterial since
a
> > properly jointed, glued, and clamped panel is already as strong as the
> > species of wood will allow.
> >
> > Using a glued up panel as a basis for saying that biscuits shouldn't be
> > considered as a type of joinery not to mention it not adding much
surface
> or
> > strength to a panel (IE table top) is a pure case of ignorance is bliss
> and
> > I'd have to opine that if think you are going by what you see posted
here
> > you probably should get some reading glasses before some other newbie
> thinks
> > you know what you are talking about..
> > --
> > Mike G.
>
> If you'd like, I can point you to many discussions on the rec regarding
the
> use of biscuits and their impact on joint strength. Better yet, DAGS in
the
> rec archives and you can find them for yourself. Personally, I don't use
a
> lot of pressed wood in my construction, so I don't find it an issue. It's
> interesting that you feel the need to belittle me rather than just state
> your opinion with facts to support it, like charlie did. I'll admit that
> after going back and reading through some of the archives that there is
more
> of a mix of opinion on the rec regarding biscuits and their
strength-adding
> properties than I recollected. Happy, now, Mike?
>
> todd
>
>

"Alexander Galkin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> As my woodworking skills improve I slowly move into cabinetmaking.
> Cabinetmaking involves a lot of joinery. I am trying to realize what
joinery
> method is best an when. As far as I understand there are pocket hole
> joinery, mortise-and-tenon, dowel and biscuit. To me dowel and biscuit
seem
> to be the easiest and quickest. I understand that smallest biscuits are 2"
> wide so they cannot be used to join narrow stock. Do these two methods
have
> drawbacks and which situations when they are not good choice. I already
have
> PC Biscuit Joiner and feel pretty comfortable using it. I do not have
> doweling jig but it is not expensive so I can buy it if necessary. Any
> advise would be appreciated.

First of all, I wouldn't include biscuits as a type of joinery. They help
with alignment, but don't really add strength, which is what joinery is all
about. From what I read, dowels can be a real challenge when the alignment
is not right on (ok, so what isn't). Pocket holes have their place, but
personally, I wouldn't use them on "fine" furniture (but in my mind, they're
a dream when building face frames). To add to your list, I'm taking a
woodworking class right now and the main guy there really likes the use of
splines. You really can't go wrong with the old standby, the mortise and
tenon. Many people who hang around here seem to be happy with a loose tenon
system as well. As you hint at, every joinery method has its place.

todd

With the PC biscuit jointer you also have the option of using face frame
biscuits which are 1/2" wide by 1 1/4 inches long to the large #20 1" wide
by 2 1/4" long. With that range you can easily put a whole cabinet together
using nothing but biscuits. They'll do everything from face frames, to face
frame mounting, to installing shelves, to aligning boards to glue up panels.

What you have to remember is that glue area has a lot to do with joint
strength. Three #20's spaced across the width of a shelf will give you
plenty of strength for a normal kitchen cabinet shelf but I wouldn't want to
trust three face frame sized biscuits for the same job.. If you suspect a
shelf will need to take a more then normal load or just want to play it save
you can stack 6 biscuits and you'll be able to stand on the thing..



--
Mike G.
[email protected]
Heirloom Woods
www.heirloom-woods.net
"Alexander Galkin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> As my woodworking skills improve I slowly move into cabinetmaking.
> Cabinetmaking involves a lot of joinery. I am trying to realize what
joinery
> method is best an when. As far as I understand there are pocket hole
> joinery, mortise-and-tenon, dowel and biscuit. To me dowel and biscuit
seem
> to be the easiest and quickest. I understand that smallest biscuits are 2"
> wide so they cannot be used to join narrow stock. Do these two methods
have
> drawbacks and which situations when they are not good choice. I already
have
> PC Biscuit Joiner and feel pretty comfortable using it. I do not have
> doweling jig but it is not expensive so I can buy it if necessary. Any
> advise would be appreciated.
>
>

"Hylourgos" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Todd Fatheree" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> > "Alexander Galkin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > As my woodworking skills improve I slowly move into cabinetmaking.
> > > Cabinetmaking involves a lot of joinery. I am trying to realize what
> > joinery
> > > method is best an when. As far as I understand there are pocket hole
> > > joinery, mortise-and-tenon, dowel and biscuit. To me dowel and biscuit
> > seem
> > > to be the easiest and quickest. I understand that smallest biscuits
are 2"
> > > wide so they cannot be used to join narrow stock. Do these two methods
> > have
> > > drawbacks and which situations when they are not good choice. I
already
> > have
> > > PC Biscuit Joiner and feel pretty comfortable using it. I do not have
> > > doweling jig but it is not expensive so I can buy it if necessary. Any
> > > advise would be appreciated.
> >
> > First of all, I wouldn't include biscuits as a type of joinery. They
help
> > with alignment, but don't really add strength, which is what joinery is
all
> > about. From what I read, dowels can be a real challenge when the
alignment
> > is not right on (ok, so what isn't). Pocket holes have their place, but
> > personally, I wouldn't use them on "fine" furniture (but in my mind,
they're
> > a dream when building face frames). To add to your list, I'm taking a
> > woodworking class right now and the main guy there really likes the use
of
> > splines. You really can't go wrong with the old standby, the mortise
and
> > tenon. Many people who hang around here seem to be happy with a loose
tenon
> > system as well. As you hint at, every joinery method has its place.
> >
> > todd
>
> FWW, FWW (how's that for use of acronyms?) April 2001, #148 determined
> that biscuit joints were among the strongest of all types of joinery
> (the were *the* strongest in FWW's stress tests).
>
> H


FWW, take a look here:
http://www.woodworking.org/WC/GArchive98/Abstract/abstract1.html

for a report on the "TESTING OF PLATE (BISCUIT) JOINERY AND ADHESIVES FOR
APPLICABILITY IN CONSTRUCTING ARCHITECTURAL PRODUCTS"


Jeffo

"Mike G" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> >First of all, I wouldn't include biscuits as a type of joinery
>
> > It's hard to imagine them adding a
> > lot of strength to, say, a table top, since they wouldn't be adding that
> > much surface area.
>
> > Well, I'm mostly going by what has been posted here.
>
> For a glued up panel, whether you use biscuits, tongue and groove,
splines,
> dowel's,or nothing but glue, the subject of strength is immaterial since a
> properly jointed, glued, and clamped panel is already as strong as the
> species of wood will allow.
>
> Using a glued up panel as a basis for saying that biscuits shouldn't be
> considered as a type of joinery not to mention it not adding much surface
or
> strength to a panel (IE table top) is a pure case of ignorance is bliss
and
> I'd have to opine that if think you are going by what you see posted here
> you probably should get some reading glasses before some other newbie
thinks
> you know what you are talking about..
> --
> Mike G.

If you'd like, I can point you to many discussions on the rec regarding the
use of biscuits and their impact on joint strength. Better yet, DAGS in the
rec archives and you can find them for yourself. Personally, I don't use a
lot of pressed wood in my construction, so I don't find it an issue. It's
interesting that you feel the need to belittle me rather than just state
your opinion with facts to support it, like charlie did. I'll admit that
after going back and reading through some of the archives that there is more
of a mix of opinion on the rec regarding biscuits and their strength-adding
properties than I recollected. Happy, now, Mike?

todd

I see. Just what aspersions was I casting, hmmm? Did you actually pay any
attention to this thread? One person felt the need to be unnecessarily
harsh in his reply to my post. Another simply pointed out a difference of
opinion backed up with facts and (oh no) a discussion took place. I found
out that my recollection of what had been posted here was not 100% correct,
though plenty of people had posted previously with the information that I
passed on. After going back and reading some more, I decided that I was
incorrect. Personally, I don't think that excuses the conduct of others,
but you might disagree.

Todd

"Renata" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Todd
> Mayhaps you oughta hang around here a bit more and get to know who's
> who before casting your aspersions.
>
> Renata
>
> On Sun, 16 May 2004 20:30:18 -0500, "Todd Fatheree"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Way to ignore my main point, which was that there have been plenty of
other
> >posts here that supported what I said. I didn't just make it up. There
> >have been posts on both sides. You don't agree, fine. You want to look
> >like a big man by trying to put me down, feel free if that's what you're
> >into. I've said that I was repeating what I believed the preponderance
of
> >posts on the subject to be. I've since said that upon further review,
the
> >posts on the subject are more mixed.
> -snip-
> >
> >todd

DW and I are doubling our kitchen size, first half
complete. Used dowels, biscuits and pocket screws.
As stated, each has it's place. By the way, biscuits
come smaller then 0 size, FF are 1.25"

Alexander Galkin wrote:

> As my woodworking skills improve I slowly move into cabinetmaking.
> Cabinetmaking involves a lot of joinery. I am trying to realize what joinery
> method is best an when. As far as I understand there are pocket hole
> joinery, mortise-and-tenon, dowel and biscuit. To me dowel and biscuit seem
> to be the easiest and quickest. I understand that smallest biscuits are 2"
> wide so they cannot be used to join narrow stock. Do these two methods have
> drawbacks and which situations when they are not good choice. I already have
> PC Biscuit Joiner and feel pretty comfortable using it. I do not have
> doweling jig but it is not expensive so I can buy it if necessary. Any
> advise would be appreciated.
>
>

Todd Fatheree wrote:

> Way to ignore my main point, which was that there have been plenty of
> other
> posts here that supported what I said. I didn't just make it up. There
> have been posts on both sides. You don't agree, fine. You want to look
> like a big man by trying to put me down, feel free if that's what you're
> into. I've said that I was repeating what I believed the preponderance of
> posts on the subject to be. I've since said that upon further review, the
> posts on the subject are more mixed. I'd also say pontification is a
> pretty
> strong word. In my original post, I wrote two whole sentences on it. I
> guess you used it as hyperbole to try to make your point appear stronger.
> Beyond that, I didn't give any advice, just my opinion. Advice would be
> me
> saying "don't use biscuits", which I didn't say. After reading some more
> on
> it today, I conclude that biscuits are, in fact, a type of joinery. What
> seems to still be up for debate is whether they're a very good one. I've
> read posts on both sides. Contrary to your belief, your opinion is not of
> universal authority. .

For God's sake, they're like every _other_ form of joinery, good when used
appropriately, bad when used inappropriately.

> todd
>
> "Mike G" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Thrilled
>>
>> As for belittling, you managed that yourself.with the your statements
> which
>> I prefaced my post with.
>>
>> I just have a problem not pointing out when someone is blowing smoke up
> the
>> groups ass and making like they knew what they were talking about.
> Possibly
>> even having actual experience on the subject they were pontification
> about.
>>
>> Some poor slob may take your bad advice as some sort of fact.
>>
>> YOU wouldn't include biscuits as a type of joinery? GMAFB.
>>
>> You want to play the game don't go whiney when your hand gets called.
>>
>> --
>> Mike G.
>> [email protected]
>> Heirloom Woods
>> www.heirloom-woods.net
>> "Todd Fatheree" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>> > "Mike G" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> > news:[email protected]...
>> > > >First of all, I wouldn't include biscuits as a type of joinery
>> > >
>> > > > It's hard to imagine them adding a
>> > > > lot of strength to, say, a table top, since they wouldn't be adding
>> that
>> > > > much surface area.
>> > >
>> > > > Well, I'm mostly going by what has been posted here.
>> > >
>> > > For a glued up panel, whether you use biscuits, tongue and groove,
>> > splines,
>> > > dowel's,or nothing but glue, the subject of strength is immaterial
> since
>> a
>> > > properly jointed, glued, and clamped panel is already as strong as
>> > > the species of wood will allow.
>> > >
>> > > Using a glued up panel as a basis for saying that biscuits shouldn't
> be
>> > > considered as a type of joinery not to mention it not adding much
>> surface
>> > or
>> > > strength to a panel (IE table top) is a pure case of ignorance is
> bliss
>> > and
>> > > I'd have to opine that if think you are going by what you see posted
>> here
>> > > you probably should get some reading glasses before some other newbie
>> > thinks
>> > > you know what you are talking about..
>> > > --
>> > > Mike G.
>> >
>> > If you'd like, I can point you to many discussions on the rec regarding
>> the
>> > use of biscuits and their impact on joint strength. Better yet, DAGS
>> > in
>> the
>> > rec archives and you can find them for yourself. Personally, I don't
> use
>> a
>> > lot of pressed wood in my construction, so I don't find it an issue.
> It's
>> > interesting that you feel the need to belittle me rather than just
>> > state
>> > your opinion with facts to support it, like charlie did. I'll admit
> that
>> > after going back and reading through some of the archives that there is
>> more
>> > of a mix of opinion on the rec regarding biscuits and their
>> strength-adding
>> > properties than I recollected. Happy, now, Mike?
>> >
>> > todd
>> >
>> >
>>
>>

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Way to ignore my main point, which was that there have been plenty of other
posts here that supported what I said. I didn't just make it up. There
have been posts on both sides. You don't agree, fine. You want to look
like a big man by trying to put me down, feel free if that's what you're
into. I've said that I was repeating what I believed the preponderance of
posts on the subject to be. I've since said that upon further review, the
posts on the subject are more mixed. I'd also say pontification is a pretty
strong word. In my original post, I wrote two whole sentences on it. I
guess you used it as hyperbole to try to make your point appear stronger.
Beyond that, I didn't give any advice, just my opinion. Advice would be me
saying "don't use biscuits", which I didn't say. After reading some more on
it today, I conclude that biscuits are, in fact, a type of joinery. What
seems to still be up for debate is whether they're a very good one. I've
read posts on both sides. Contrary to your belief, your opinion is not of
universal authority. .

todd

"Mike G" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Thrilled
>
> As for belittling, you managed that yourself.with the your statements
which
> I prefaced my post with.
>
> I just have a problem not pointing out when someone is blowing smoke up
the
> groups ass and making like they knew what they were talking about.
Possibly
> even having actual experience on the subject they were pontification
about.
>
> Some poor slob may take your bad advice as some sort of fact.
>
> YOU wouldn't include biscuits as a type of joinery? GMAFB.
>
> You want to play the game don't go whiney when your hand gets called.
>
> --
> Mike G.
> [email protected]
> Heirloom Woods
> www.heirloom-woods.net
> "Todd Fatheree" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > "Mike G" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > >First of all, I wouldn't include biscuits as a type of joinery
> > >
> > > > It's hard to imagine them adding a
> > > > lot of strength to, say, a table top, since they wouldn't be adding
> that
> > > > much surface area.
> > >
> > > > Well, I'm mostly going by what has been posted here.
> > >
> > > For a glued up panel, whether you use biscuits, tongue and groove,
> > splines,
> > > dowel's,or nothing but glue, the subject of strength is immaterial
since
> a
> > > properly jointed, glued, and clamped panel is already as strong as the
> > > species of wood will allow.
> > >
> > > Using a glued up panel as a basis for saying that biscuits shouldn't
be
> > > considered as a type of joinery not to mention it not adding much
> surface
> > or
> > > strength to a panel (IE table top) is a pure case of ignorance is
bliss
> > and
> > > I'd have to opine that if think you are going by what you see posted
> here
> > > you probably should get some reading glasses before some other newbie
> > thinks
> > > you know what you are talking about..
> > > --
> > > Mike G.
> >
> > If you'd like, I can point you to many discussions on the rec regarding
> the
> > use of biscuits and their impact on joint strength. Better yet, DAGS in
> the
> > rec archives and you can find them for yourself. Personally, I don't
use
> a
> > lot of pressed wood in my construction, so I don't find it an issue.
It's
> > interesting that you feel the need to belittle me rather than just state
> > your opinion with facts to support it, like charlie did. I'll admit
that
> > after going back and reading through some of the archives that there is
> more
> > of a mix of opinion on the rec regarding biscuits and their
> strength-adding
> > properties than I recollected. Happy, now, Mike?
> >
> > todd
> >
> >
>
>