OT - locksets.

"Larry Jaques" wrote:

> Cool. BUT, I don't see why that guy was afraid of the little .22,
> do
> you?
------------------------------------------
Once again you speak while having your head where the moon doesn't
shine.

Having shot tens of thousands of rounds of .22 long riffle hollow
point rounds, trust me, it would be no problem to sever the spinal
column resulting in instaneous death with a single .22 LRHP round.

Think of it as a baby dum dum.

Lew

On Sun, 02 May 2010 11:30:32 -0500, the infamous
"[email protected]" <[email protected]> scrawled the
following:

>On Sun, 02 May 2010 07:55:44 -0700, Larry Jaques <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 1 May 2010 22:17:18 -0700, the infamous "Lew Hodgett"
>><[email protected]> scrawled the following:
>>
>>>
>>>"Larry Jaques" wrote:
>>>
>>>> Cool. BUT, I don't see why that guy was afraid of the little .22,
>>>> do
>>>> you?
>>>------------------------------------------
>>>Once again you speak while having your head where the moon doesn't
>>>shine.
>>
>>You're right. There's no moonshine in me arse.
>>
>>
>>>Having shot tens of thousands of rounds of .22 long riffle hollow
>>>point rounds, trust me, it would be no problem to sever the spinal
>>>column resulting in instaneous death with a single .22 LRHP round.
>>
>>Sure, from a bench rest with a scope against an immovable object with
>>rings marking the X on it, shots like that are easy.
>>
>>
>>>Think of it as a baby dum dum.
>>
>>Oh, sure, .22s are definitely lethal weapons, Lew. But if someone
>>wants to get at you, a .22 generally does NOT provide one-slug
>>stopping power.
>
>The Mossaid uses .22LRs (Berretta 71s, IIRC) quite successfully to off
>terrorists while they're on vacation.

Yabbut, it's the Mossad agents who are stalking the unsuspecting
tangoes. I'd give odds that they didn't take down many of them while
the tangoes were running at them after breaking into their hotel. At
least not with a single shot. Then again, maybe they fill the hollow
point with a nice, quick-acting poison, just in case.


>>And when is the last time you put a slug through an attacking
>>burglar--into his spine--when he was running at you and your body is
>>full of adrenaline? Hmm? That's why COM shots are gently suggested.
>>
>>Aunt Bea didn't even HIT him with her shot. She was damned lucky he
>>wasn't a violent criminal or he could have beaten and raped her, AND
>>stolen her gun and valuables.
>
>Aunt Bea wouldn't likely be any more dangerous with a .357, though.

True. She, and others like her, need _training_ and _practice_, which
reminds me to renew my Sportsman's Club membership.

--
Courage is the power to let go of the familiar.
-- Raymond Lindquist

"Max" <[email protected]> writes:
>This is likely not the appropriate NG to be asking but I'm so impressed with
>the knowledge here (G) that I thought I'd ask anyway.
>I want to replace all the exterior door locksets and deadbolts.
>I've read a few "reviews" on some but what say you all?
>I don't want to spend a fortune but like most of my purchases, I'll spend
>whatever it takes to assure reasonable security. ("bumpproof", pick
>resistant, etc)
>Any recommendations?
>
>Max

"Best" or "medco" brands.

scott

On Apr 30, 5:51=A0pm, "Max" <[email protected]> wrote:
> This is likely not the appropriate NG to be asking but I'm so impressed w=
ith
> the knowledge here (G) that I thought I'd ask anyway.
> I want to replace all the exterior door locksets and deadbolts.
> I've read a few "reviews" on some but what say you all?
> I don't want to spend a fortune but like most of my purchases, I'll spend
> whatever it takes to assure reasonable security. ("bumpproof", pick
> resistant, etc)
> Any recommendations?
>
> Max

6 normal dead bolts. In a row. Lock 3. If they are pickers, they'll be
unlocking the locked 3 and locking the unlocked ones....that could
take a while.

On May 1, 3:54=A0pm, "Max" <[email protected]> wrote:
> <[email protected]> wrote
>
> > =A0"Lew Hodgett" =A0wrote:
> >>------------------------------------------------
> >>How difficult is it to enter your locked home with the universal house
> >>key, a 16# sledge or a well thrown concrete block?
>
> >>Would be a much higher priority than a lockset IMHO.
>
> > A good, current, insurance policy is a higher priority, IMO.
>
> Fully covered but I don't think it would replace a lot of personal items,
> i.e. pictures, collectibles, etc.

all kinds of personal items... like that swedish blonde tied up in the
fruit cellar....

In article <[email protected]>, Max
<[email protected]> wrote:

> This is likely not the appropriate NG to be asking but I'm so impressed with
> the knowledge here (G) that I thought I'd ask anyway.
> I want to replace all the exterior door locksets and deadbolts.
> I've read a few "reviews" on some but what say you all?
> I don't want to spend a fortune but like most of my purchases, I'll spend
> whatever it takes to assure reasonable security. ("bumpproof", pick
> resistant, etc)
> Any recommendations?

Locks are to keep your friends out. No lock is pick or bump proof.

In article <[email protected]>, Max
<[email protected]> wrote:

> "Dave Balderstone" <dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_Sbalderstone.ca> wrote
>
> > Locks are to keep your friends out. No lock is pick or bump proof.
>
> "Resistant"?

30 seconds instead of 10?

If someone wants in, they're coming in.

In article <[email protected]>, Max
<[email protected]> wrote:

> But thanks for your wisdom. Even if it's in the category of *DUH".

No worries. You won't hear from me again.

"Max" <[email protected]> wrote:

>"Dave Balderstone" <dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_Sbalderstone.ca> wrote
>
>> Locks are to keep your friends out. No lock is pick or bump proof.
>
>"Resistant"?

Your typical residental burgler couldn't pick a lock to save their life. Think
"kick resistant". You want a good long deadbolt that sets into a strong plate
with screws that go deep into the framing. Don't forget good long screws in the
hinges. Even then, you are just slowing them down a few seconds. -- Doug

"Max" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> This is likely not the appropriate NG to be asking but I'm so
> impressed with the knowledge here (G) that I thought I'd ask
> anyway.
> I want to replace all the exterior door locksets and deadbolts.
> I've read a few "reviews" on some but what say you all?
> I don't want to spend a fortune but like most of my purchases,
> I'll spend whatever it takes to assure reasonable security.
> ("bumpproof", pick resistant, etc)
> Any recommendations?
>
> Max


Consider the Kwikset deadbolt with the numeric keypad. You can
set it to automatically extend the deadbolt after some time
interval, it's now self-handing and there's an LED to let you know
the door's locked. I have the older model, which is great, but
the newer one is smaller on the interior, easier to install and
works fine. The key cylinder for Kwikset can also be mastered to
any suitable key by the installer with no need for a locksmith.

I also second the thought that if a burglar wants in, he'll get
in. However, the goal is to slow them down and force them to make
as much noise as possible. With enough hassle facing him, he'll
just go next door. With that in mind, I install my deadbolts and
strike plates using long, hardened screws that go well into the
crip. All you need to do is be careful to not overtighten them
and warp the casing.

I once thought of Schlage as being good- better than Kwikset- but
changed that misconception after installing 5 of their exterior
door sets and deadbolts on my home in Raleigh. Within a couple
years, the brass had turned black. I contacted Schlage and their
attitude was, "Tough Luck, you're out of warranty. How about
buying our NEW coated brass sets, which will never darken?" The
words, Push, Cram and Shove came to mind. <Grin>

--
Nonny
On most days,
it's just not worth
the effort of chewing
through the restraints..

"Max" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> This is likely not the appropriate NG to be asking but I'm so
> impressed with the knowledge here (G) that I thought I'd ask anyway.
> I want to replace all the exterior door locksets and deadbolts.
> I've read a few "reviews" on some but what say you all?
> I don't want to spend a fortune but like most of my purchases, I'll
> spend whatever it takes to assure reasonable security. ("bumpproof",
> pick resistant, etc)
> Any recommendations?
>
> Max
>

No specific recommendations, but you may want to watch out for a feature
called "Easy Out" or "Call the locksmith (again)." The interior handle
turns freely to open the door, but doesn't release the lock or give any
indication the door was locked. As soon as you shut the door, you're
locked out.

Locks seem to be one of those things that once you hit a certain price
point you stop paying for quality and start paying for style. (And you
may not get the same quality for a higher style lock.)

Puckdropper
--
Never teach your apprentice everything you know.

"Dave Balderstone" <dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_Sbalderstone.ca> wrote

> Locks are to keep your friends out. No lock is pick or bump proof.

"Resistant"?

Max

"Dave Balderstone" <dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_Sbalderstone.ca> wrote in message
news:300420102033464157%dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_Sbalderstone.ca...
> In article <[email protected]>, Max
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> "Dave Balderstone" <dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_Sbalderstone.ca> wrote
>>
>> > Locks are to keep your friends out. No lock is pick or bump proof.
>>
>> "Resistant"?
>
> 30 seconds instead of 10?
>
> If someone wants in, they're coming in.


Quite right. I only wish to *discourage* them.
I have a burglar alarm. Some thieves simply go door to door to see if
someone left a door unlocked.
My purpose in posting my inquiry was to see if anyone might have some
*worthwhile* contribution.
Scott Lurndal did.
But thanks for your wisdom. Even if it's in the category of *DUH".

Max

"Scott Lurndal" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Max" <[email protected]> writes:
>>This is likely not the appropriate NG to be asking but I'm so impressed
>>with
>>the knowledge here (G) that I thought I'd ask anyway.
>>I want to replace all the exterior door locksets and deadbolts.
>>I've read a few "reviews" on some but what say you all?
>>I don't want to spend a fortune but like most of my purchases, I'll spend
>>whatever it takes to assure reasonable security. ("bumpproof", pick
>>resistant, etc)
>>Any recommendations?
>>
>>Max
>
> "Best" or "medco" brands.
>
> scott


Checking them out.
Thanks, Scott

Max

"WW" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Max" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> This is likely not the appropriate NG to be asking but I'm so impressed
>> with the knowledge here (G) that I thought I'd ask anyway.
>> I want to replace all the exterior door locksets and deadbolts.
>> I've read a few "reviews" on some but what say you all?
>> I don't want to spend a fortune but like most of my purchases, I'll spend
>> whatever it takes to assure reasonable security. ("bumpproof", pick
>> resistant, etc)
>> Any recommendations?
>>
>> Max Slagg brand. (spelling?) Is supposed to be bump proof. That is what I
>> have. BUT They will lock you out if you leave in locked setting but will
>> let you out. WW
>
>


I Googled that and ended up with "Schlage Max". Looks promising.
Thanks.

Max

"Douglas Johnson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Max" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>"Dave Balderstone" <dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_Sbalderstone.ca> wrote
>>
>>> Locks are to keep your friends out. No lock is pick or bump proof.
>>
>>"Resistant"?
>
> Your typical residental burgler couldn't pick a lock to save their life.
> Think
> "kick resistant". You want a good long deadbolt that sets into a strong
> plate
> with screws that go deep into the framing. Don't forget good long screws
> in the
> hinges. Even then, you are just slowing them down a few seconds. -- Doug


I *think* I've pretty well covered those categories but I appreciate your
emphasis on them.
There are other measures I've taken as well; the burglar alarm, exterior
lighting, shrubbery kept trimmed.
Good relationships with neighbors. <G> A dog (albeit a somewhat friendly
one) whose bark is bigger than her bite.

Max

"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 4/30/2010 5:51 PM, Max wrote:
>> This is likely not the appropriate NG to be asking but I'm so impressed
>> with the knowledge here (G) that I thought I'd ask anyway.
>> I want to replace all the exterior door locksets and deadbolts.
>> I've read a few "reviews" on some but what say you all?
>> I don't want to spend a fortune but like most of my purchases, I'll
>> spend whatever it takes to assure reasonable security. ("bumpproof",
>> pick resistant, etc)
>> Any recommendations?
>
> Have you rendered your doors and windows resistant to likely levels of
> force?

To the extent that I could without going to metal doors. They're all solid
core doors and fairly "hefty".

>If not then you need to do that before you have to worry about whether your
>locks can be picked--most intruders don't pick locks, they break something.
>
> If you're really concerned about bumping then call a locksmith and have
> him rekey your existing locks with bumproof cylinders. It will likely be
> cheaper than replacing them all with bumproof locks.

I really need to replace the locksets anyway; they're 24 years old, much
used and "builder quality".
The deadbolts are still in good shape and I thought I would have them
re-keyed to accept the same key as the new entry locksets.
That would entail getting the same brand as the original so I might go the
expense of replacing both.

Max (still pondering)

"notbob" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 2010-04-30, Max <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Any recommendations?
>
> Get a gun-owner-lives-here sticker.
>
> nb


I have a little sticker on the most obvious front window that says,
"Protected by Smith & Wesson".
It's next to the alarm co. sticker.
The Smith & Wesson is a 40 S&W. It's kept loaded. (no kids at home)
I'm not deeply concerned with a home intrusion while I'm here but we travel
quite a bit.

Max

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:db0b252d-f8a3-4cbf-91c4-3c16a2a2695c@q30g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
On May 1, 9:07 am, "Max" <[email protected]> wrote:

> The deadbolts are still in good shape and I thought I would have them
> re-keyed to accept the same key as the new entry locksets.
> That would entail getting the same brand as the original so I might go the
> expense of replacing both.
>
> Max (still pondering)

>Just a couple of thoughts here. If you look at the Medeco or Best
>brands, you will find that a lockset or deadbolt will run about $200
>for each unit. i have installed hundreds of the Medeco, but no Best
>branded locks. The Medecos are top flight, but they retain a definite
>commercial appearance as that is their market.

>If you go the commercial route, make sure you check out the
>installation instructions. Most of them are box style locks, and you
>will either need some real time and patience to install them, or rent/
>buy a deep mortise machine. For the most part these are not locks
>that you remove the old lock and simply screw a new one of them in the
>old holes.

>Through all the years of installing Schlage, Kwickset, Baldwins, Ball,
>Yale and a slew of Chinese stuff, I like the Schlage for their price
>point. As I have said before, I used to have a contract with a local
>company to install their doors, and I have put a lot of Schlage
>product on. Never had a service or warranty call. Their newer
>finishes on their polished brass (starting about 5 years ago) hold up
>great.

>The upper line has a good finish on it in polished nickel, oiled
>bronze, etc., that lasts well. The mechanicals are solid on their
>hardware. Make sure you get a deadbolt that has a 1" throw.

>I put Schlage on my house about 27 years ago, and the front door lock
>still works smooth as silk. The only maintenance I have ever done on
>the lock was to take it out and clean it and re-oil it after every ten
>year mark.

>The most important thing with any lock is the installation. I get
>good service out of the stainless steel generic brands ("Defender",
>"Titan" and such) for sheds, landlord repairs, etc., because I take
>the time to adjust the lock to work properly.

>A lock is working properly when you can close the door easily with one
>finger and all you get is a "click". The deadbolt works correctly if
>you turn the key and can barely feel the plunger assembly move.

>The best additional security I do for my clients is to change out the
>screws in the jamb side of the mortise. Instead of using the 5/8"
>supplied screws, I get 2 1/2" screws in cadmium to install the strike
>plates for both locksets and deadbolts. It takes an incredible amount
>of energy to get those out of the jamb with brute force.

>Good luck!

>Robert

Bingo!! Just the sort of info I was seeking. Robert, you are a treasure.

Sometimes a guy comes here looking for advice when he has already made
up...well somewhere between 50 and 90 percent...of his mind but would really
like some confirmation.
My many thanks,

Max

Max wrote:
>
> Any recommendations?
------------------------------------------------
How difficult is it to enter your locked home with the universal house
key, a 16# sledge or a well thrown concrete block?

Would be a much higher priority than a lockset IMHO.

Lew

"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Max wrote:
>>
>> Any recommendations?
> ------------------------------------------------
> How difficult is it to enter your locked home with the universal house
> key, a 16# sledge or a well thrown concrete block?
>
> Would be a much higher priority than a lockset IMHO.
>
> Lew

Um..... Am I being presumptuous to assume that you're about to tell me how
to overcome those other deficiencies?
I would be willing to re-prioritize. At this point, I feel as if I've done
about all I can do with the windows and walls.
Wrought iron window guards are ubiquitous in this town so as unsightly as
they might seem, we have them. Also on the doors. But a chain hooked to a
vehicle would likely overcome those.
And a 16# sledge, as obvious as it might appear to neighbors, would wreak
havoc on my brick veneer (actually "slump block") walls.
I can only hope a neighbor, friend, relative, passerby or the police might
wonder why someone is trying to dismantle my humble dwelling.
Especially if the vibrations happen to set off the alarm.
As Balderstone cleverly pointed out, "If someone wants in, they're coming
in." I'm not really worried about them "coming" in. Not while I'm there.
I can take care of that. It's when we're gone and they want to "get" in
that concerns me.
Seriously, all I'm looking for is a replacement for the cheap hardware that
is on the house at present. And I'd rather not replace it with something
just as cheap. Did you catch Robert's comments? Perfect.

Max

,

<[email protected]> wrote

> "Lew Hodgett" wrote:

>>------------------------------------------------
>>How difficult is it to enter your locked home with the universal house
>>key, a 16# sledge or a well thrown concrete block?
>>
>>Would be a much higher priority than a lockset IMHO.
>>
> A good, current, insurance policy is a higher priority, IMO.


Fully covered but I don't think it would replace a lot of personal items,
i.e. pictures, collectibles, etc.

"DGDevin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Max" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>> Bingo!! Just the sort of info I was seeking. Robert, you are a
>> treasure.
>>
>> Sometimes a guy comes here looking for advice when he has already made
>> up...well somewhere between 50 and 90 percent...of his mind but would
>> really like some confirmation.
>> My many thanks,
>>
>> Max
>
> That was a particularly useful response, wasn't it?
>
> I saw a video years ago called B and E A to Z, all about how to get into
> places you don't have a key for. What an eye-opener, it showed most
> residential locks to be a complete joke so far as even a slightly
> experienced burglar is concerned. In addition a series of businesses I
> worked for were burglarized and that was highly educational as well--a
> steel-clad door barred from the inside doesn't matter much when they pry
> off a vent cover into the phone/electrical room and then cut through the
> wall with a battery-powered saw.
>
> The thing about burglars is they look at a locked door in a totally
> different way than a law-abiding citizen. If you don't have a key you
> think you can't open that door, but a burglar thinks of the five ways he
> knows to open that door without a key. One of the simplest is to cut a
> chunk out of the door frame around the bolt so the door can be opened
> still locked with the bolt uselessly still in place--a hammer and chisel
> or a reciprocating saw renders even the best deadbolt pointless in moments
> if the door frame is that easy to get through.
>
> As others have suggested whether or not the lock is pick-resistant is of
> less importance than how well the door and windows resist simple
> brute-force methods since you're far more likely to encounter a meth-head
> with a pry-bar than a cat-burglar with safe-cracking experience. In that
> regard your alarm is already your best defense, as even a meth-head will
> see the alarm sign and keep on going.

All too true.
I am a retired Fire Chief. I spent 33 years on the job and as a rookie I
rode a ladder truck. We were the guys with the axes.
But in order to keep damage to a minimum, believe it or not, <G> we tried a
variety of different ways to gain entry other than extreme measures.
There are ways the average homeowner would never imagine.

Max

Max wrote:
> Um..... Am I being presumptuous to assume that you're about to tell
> me how to overcome those other deficiencies?
------------------
Not at all, but locks keep honest people honest.

Beyond that, they are about as useful as a set of breasts on a boar
hog.

If somebody wants in, they are coming in.

If it takes them more than 5 minutes to rob you blind, they are
probably going to get caught.

Plan accordingly.

Lew

<[email protected]> wrote

> Few thieves want your pictures. Collectables should have insurance
> riders. In
> most areas, and all I'd live in, fire is a bigger risk than burglaries.
> That
> said, I have been burglarized once but have never had a fire loss.
>

I have "scheduled" coverage for the collectibles but most of them are
irreplaceable.
And most burglaries result in damage to furnishings.
Most of our furnishings are products of my workshop. Need I say more. <G>
I live in El Paso, TX. We have a Class 1 FD (the highest rating)
I'm not worried about a fire. The burglary risk is higher. Juarez, Mexico
is just across the river....er..... the stream...er.....often just the river
bed.
In truth, the burglary risk is relatively low, especially considering the
location/environment.
El Paso has a very low crime rate.
But:
"An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure."

Max

"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote

>, Max wrote:

>> I have a little sticker on the most obvious front window that says,
>> "Protected by Smith & Wesson".
>> It's next to the alarm co. sticker.
>> The Smith & Wesson is a 40 S&W. It's kept loaded. (no kids at home)
>> I'm not deeply concerned with a home intrusion while I'm here but we
>> travel quite a bit.
>
> One guy I knew added a fired target. A human torso shaped target with
> the groin shot out.
>


LOL. A mannequin might be a good idea too.

Max

<[email protected]> wrote
>
> A sign in the front lawn pointing out the neighbor who doesn't believe in
> second-amendment rights and indicating that you will respect his wishes
> and
> not to use guns on his property, might work too.


LOL. This thread has resulted in some very interesting information.

Max

"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Max wrote:
>> Um..... Am I being presumptuous to assume that you're about to tell me
>> how to overcome those other deficiencies?
> ------------------
> Not at all, but locks keep honest people honest.
>
> Beyond that, they are about as useful as a set of breasts on a boar hog.
>
> If somebody wants in, they are coming in.
>
> If it takes them more than 5 minutes to rob you blind, they are probably
> going to get caught.
>
> Plan accordingly.
>
> Lew
>
>



Put the good stuff close to the front door? <G>

Max

"Larry Jaques" wrote:

> And when is the last time you put a slug through an attacking
> burglar--into his spine--when he was running at you and your body is
> full of adrenaline? Hmm? That's why COM shots are gently
> suggested.
-----------------------------------------
My weapon of choice inside the home would a double barreled 12 GA sans
barrels loaded with ))

"Larry Jaques" wrote:

> And when is the last time you put a slug through an attacking
> burglar--into his spine--when he was running at you and your body is
> full of adrenaline? Hmm? That's why COM shots are gently
> suggested.
-----------------------------------------
My weapon of choice inside the home would a circumcised double
barreled 12 GA with both barrels loaded with 00 buckshot whose
express purpose would be removing the genitals.

Anything inside 50 ft is mine.

As far as the legality of the weapon is concerned, that's why
$1,000/hour
people exist.

Lew

"Doug Miller" wrote:

> I respectfully disagree. IMHO, the single biggest thing you can do
> for home
> security is to own a dog.
--------------------------------------------
Try a gander.

Lew

"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] (Robert Bonomi) wrote:
> [...]
>>The single *biggest* thing you can do for home security is to _not_ use
>>a clock mechanism where the lock is integral to the door-knob.
>
> I respectfully disagree. IMHO, the single biggest thing you can do for
> home
> security is to own a dog.


I have a dog. She's a watch dog. She would only "watch" if someone broke
in.
If I'm at home, the single biggest thing to deter a burglar is me and my
Smith & Wesson .40
And just to discourage someone from asking, "But would you use it if the
time came?" let me point out that I spent a year with the 1st. Cavalry
Division, 1950-'51. "From the Naktong to the Yalu".

Max (I need an "aggressive" dog)

Lew Hodgett wrote:
> "Doug Miller" wrote:
>
>
>>I respectfully disagree. IMHO, the single biggest thing you can do
>>for home
>>security is to own a dog.
>
> --------------------------------------------
> Try a gander.
>
> Lew
>
>

A co-worker tried six geese as "watch dogs" at his summer home in the
country. The neighboring farmer, who was somewhat of a redneck, ate
them all for dinner.

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
[email protected]

"Swingman" wrote:

> Guinea hens ...
--------------------------------------------
Guinea hens make a racket but a gander will also take of bite out of
you.

Even worse, mama goose with a hatch of goslings.

I watched one rework a barn cat.

Lew

"Nova" wrote:

> A co-worker tried six geese as "watch dogs" at his summer home in
> the country. The neighboring farmer, who was somewhat of a redneck,
> ate them all for dinner.
------------------------------------------------

That was a real neighborly fellow.

When I first came to SoCal, there was a yard near the office for
parking trucks overnight that used guard geese.

As far as I know, they had no problems.

Lew

"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:2f32334f-dec8-4854-8032-48f658de594e@a34g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
On May 1, 3:54 pm, "Max" <[email protected]> wrote:
> <[email protected]> wrote
>
> > "Lew Hodgett" wrote:
> >>------------------------------------------------
> >>How difficult is it to enter your locked home with the universal house
> >>key, a 16# sledge or a well thrown concrete block?
>
> >>Would be a much higher priority than a lockset IMHO.
>
> > A good, current, insurance policy is a higher priority, IMO.
>
> Fully covered but I don't think it would replace a lot of personal items,
> i.e. pictures, collectibles, etc.

>all kinds of personal items... like that swedish blonde tied up in the
>fruit cellar....


Uh......No....she's a Latina. Marvelous cook. I call her Mahoney.
I've kept her around for 45 years. She's apparently also very tolerant.
{:-)

Max (tolerated)

"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:22453943-0e08-46d8-af8d-c3b9f078e3d6@q32g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
On Apr 30, 5:51 pm, "Max" <[email protected]> wrote:
> This is likely not the appropriate NG to be asking but I'm so impressed
> with
> the knowledge here (G) that I thought I'd ask anyway.
> I want to replace all the exterior door locksets and deadbolts.
> I've read a few "reviews" on some but what say you all?
> I don't want to spend a fortune but like most of my purchases, I'll spend
> whatever it takes to assure reasonable security. ("bumpproof", pick
> resistant, etc)
> Any recommendations?
>
> Max

>6 normal dead bolts. In a row. Lock 3. If they are pickers, they'll be
>unlocking the locked 3 and locking the unlocked ones....that could
>take a while.


I'm wondering whether a "set-gun" might be a solution.

Max (if they just weren't illegal)

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:54d88143-29c8-4008-80fe-7f24142ae262@q32g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
On May 3, 1:44 pm, "Nonny" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Robert Bonomi" <[email protected]> wrote in message

<snip>

> Most of the burglaries take place in homes where the home is
> viewable from a public area- which is how it's selected. One
> exception is the day laborers used by landscape maintenance crews,
> painters and other contractors visiting a neighborhood.
> Gated communities have a slight advantage, since even if a car
> follows you in thorough the gate, it's something a neighbor might
> see. Guard gated communities have a real advantage there, along
> with registration of all visitors and videotapes of the people
> inside the autos. Nothing is perfect. For instance, we have
> friends in a very nice home. To get there, we have to be admitted
> by a guard via the guard gate and the site is videotaped from
> different angles. We then drive through the subdivision and are
> faced with an electronic second gate. There, we either have to
> enter the code or call the guard house to have the gate opened.
> Once inside that subcompound, we reach our friend's home.
>
> Did I mention that the home backs up to a public, yes PUBLIC golf
> courses? Yup, we sit in our friend's back yard, by their pool,
> and look over the 3' wrought iron fence and speak to the golfers
> waiting to tee off on the 8th hole. How's that for security?

>Are you insinuating that golfers are dishonest?


>Bwa hahahahaha. Is there any other kind?

On May 3, 1:44=A0pm, "Nonny" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Robert Bonomi" <[email protected]> wrote in message

<snip>

> Most of the burglaries take place in homes where the home is
> viewable from a public area- which is how it's selected. =A0One
> exception is the day laborers used by landscape maintenance crews,
> painters and other contractors visiting a neighborhood.
> Gated communities have a slight advantage, since even if a car
> follows you in thorough the gate, it's something a neighbor might
> see. =A0Guard gated communities have a real advantage there, along
> with registration of all visitors and videotapes of the people
> inside the autos. =A0Nothing is perfect. =A0For instance, we have
> friends in a very nice home. =A0To get there, we have to be admitted
> by a guard via the guard gate and the site is videotaped from
> different angles. =A0We then drive through the subdivision and are
> faced with an electronic second gate. =A0There, we either have to
> enter the code or call the guard house to have the gate opened.
> Once inside that subcompound, we reach our friend's home.
>
> Did I mention that the home backs up to a public, yes PUBLIC golf
> courses? =A0Yup, we sit in our friend's back yard, by their pool,
> and look over the 3' wrought iron fence and speak to the golfers
> waiting to tee off on the 8th hole. =A0How's that for security?

Are you insinuating that golfers are dishonest?

Max wrote:
> This is likely not the appropriate NG to be asking but I'm so
> impressed with the knowledge here (G) that I thought I'd ask anyway.
> I want to replace all the exterior door locksets and deadbolts.
> I've read a few "reviews" on some but what say you all?
> I don't want to spend a fortune but like most of my purchases, I'll
> spend whatever it takes to assure reasonable security. ("bumpproof",
> pick resistant, etc)
> Any recommendations?
>
> Max

Why do you want to do this?
1. Protect your property while you're gone;
2. Protect yourself while you're there;
3. Both #1 and #2;
4. Cosmetic.

If #1, consider burglar bars and doors.
If #2, a 12-gauge would be cheaper.

On Sat, 1 May 2010 13:54:54 -0600, "Max" <[email protected]> wrote:

><[email protected]> wrote
>
>> "Lew Hodgett" wrote:
>
>>>------------------------------------------------
>>>How difficult is it to enter your locked home with the universal house
>>>key, a 16# sledge or a well thrown concrete block?
>>>
>>>Would be a much higher priority than a lockset IMHO.
>>>
>> A good, current, insurance policy is a higher priority, IMO.
>
>
>Fully covered but I don't think it would replace a lot of personal items,
>i.e. pictures, collectibles, etc.

Few thieves want your pictures. Collectables should have insurance riders. In
most areas, and all I'd live in, fire is a bigger risk than burglaries. That
said, I have been burglarized once but have never had a fire loss.

On May 1, 5:07=A0pm, "Nonny" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Max" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...
>
> > This is likely not the appropriate NG to be asking but I'm so
> > impressed with the knowledge here (G) that I thought I'd ask
> > anyway.
> > I want to replace all the exterior door locksets and deadbolts.
> > I've read a few "reviews" on some but what say you all?
> > I don't want to spend a fortune but like most of my purchases,
> > I'll spend whatever it takes to assure reasonable security.
> > ("bumpproof", pick resistant, etc)
> > Any recommendations?
>
> > Max
>
> Consider the Kwikset deadbolt with the numeric keypad. =A0You can
> set it to automatically extend the deadbolt after some time
> interval, it's now self-handing and there's an LED to let you know
> the door's locked. =A0I have the older model, which is great, but
> the newer one is smaller on the interior, easier to install and
> works fine. =A0The key cylinder for Kwikset can also be mastered to
> any suitable key by the installer with no need for a locksmith.
>
> I also second the thought that if a burglar wants in, he'll get
> in. =A0However, the goal is to slow them down and force them to make
> as much noise as possible. =A0With enough hassle facing him, he'll
> just go next door. =A0With that in mind, I install my deadbolts and
> strike plates using long, hardened screws that go well into the
> crip. =A0All you need to do is be careful to not overtighten them
> and warp the casing.
>
> I once thought of Schlage as being good- better than Kwikset- but
> changed that misconception after installing 5 of their exterior
> door sets and deadbolts on my home in Raleigh. =A0Within a couple
> years, the brass had turned black. =A0I contacted Schlage and their
> attitude was, "Tough Luck, you're out of warranty. =A0How about
> buying our NEW coated brass sets, which will never darken?" =A0The
> words, Push, Cram and Shove came to mind. <Grin>
>
> --
> Nonny
> On most days,
> it's just not worth
> the effort of chewing
> through the restraints..

re: "Consider the Kwikset deadbolt with the numeric keypad."

I just installed one of them a few weeks ago. So far, I love it.

I rarely used my front door in the last 20 years since I don't like to
carry anything more than my car key and fob. My work building and
office unlock with a card key - I just flash the wallet - and my
garage has it's own keypad.

Now that I have the push button lockset, I use the front door much
more regularly.

I had heard that you had to be more precise when installing these
locks, but I'm certainly no locksmith and had no problem. The entry
door I installed was pre-bored for the handle set, both door and jamb,
but only the door was pre-bored for the deadbolt. After adjusting the
handle set for the "one finger click" mentioned elsewhere in this
thread, I bored the jamb for the deadbolt and it operates as smooth as
can be.

One button locks the deadbolt on the way out, and a 5 digit code
unlocks. Sweet!

On May 3, 7:56=A0am, Nova <[email protected]> wrote:
> Lew Hodgett wrote:
> > "Doug Miller" wrote:
>
> >>I respectfully disagree. IMHO, the single biggest thing you can do
> >>for home
> >>security is to own a dog.
>
> > --------------------------------------------
> > Try a gander.
>
> > Lew
>
> A co-worker tried six geese as "watch dogs" at his summer home in the
> country. =A0The neighboring farmer, who was somewhat of a redneck, ate
> them all for dinner.

Them's rednecks for ya.. always mooching and stealing.

Evodawg <[email protected]> wrote:
>The owner is an engineer and he himself developed a screen that has
>very small signal wires running through it. When the screen is removed or
>cut it breaks a very small current and triggers the alarm. His concern was
>at night when it was cool and he wanted to leave his windows opened, also
>didn't want the window to trigger alarm every time you opened and closed
>windows. Think he's in the process of patenting it.

Those have been around since the 80's to my certain knowledge. I thought about
buying them when I was having an alarm installed in a house I owned then. They
were really expensive, so I didn't. -- Doug

On 5/3/2010 1:34 PM, Robatoy wrote:

> 6 normal dead bolts. In a row. Lock 3. If they are pickers, they'll be
> unlocking the locked 3 and locking the unlocked ones....that could
> take a while.

ROTFLMAO ...

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On 5/2/2010 10:13 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
> "Doug Miller" wrote:
>
>> I respectfully disagree. IMHO, the single biggest thing you can do
>> for home
>> security is to own a dog.
> --------------------------------------------
> Try a gander.

Guinea hens ...


--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

"Max" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> Bingo!! Just the sort of info I was seeking. Robert, you are a treasure.
>
> Sometimes a guy comes here looking for advice when he has already made
> up...well somewhere between 50 and 90 percent...of his mind but would
> really like some confirmation.
> My many thanks,
>
> Max

That was a particularly useful response, wasn't it?

I saw a video years ago called B and E A to Z, all about how to get into
places you don't have a key for. What an eye-opener, it showed most
residential locks to be a complete joke so far as even a slightly
experienced burglar is concerned. In addition a series of businesses I
worked for were burglarized and that was highly educational as well--a
steel-clad door barred from the inside doesn't matter much when they pry off
a vent cover into the phone/electrical room and then cut through the wall
with a battery-powered saw.

The thing about burglars is they look at a locked door in a totally
different way than a law-abiding citizen. If you don't have a key you think
you can't open that door, but a burglar thinks of the five ways he knows to
open that door without a key. One of the simplest is to cut a chunk out of
the door frame around the bolt so the door can be opened still locked with
the bolt uselessly still in place--a hammer and chisel or a reciprocating
saw renders even the best deadbolt pointless in moments if the door frame is
that easy to get through.

As others have suggested whether or not the lock is pick-resistant is of
less importance than how well the door and windows resist simple brute-force
methods since you're far more likely to encounter a meth-head with a pry-bar
than a cat-burglar with safe-cracking experience. In that regard your alarm
is already your best defense, as even a meth-head will see the alarm sign
and keep on going.

On 5/3/2010 6:56 AM, Nova wrote:
> Lew Hodgett wrote:
>> "Doug Miller" wrote:
>>
>>
>>> I respectfully disagree. IMHO, the single biggest thing you can do
>>> for home
>>> security is to own a dog.
>>
>> --------------------------------------------
>> Try a gander.
>>
>> Lew
>>
>>
>
> A co-worker tried six geese as "watch dogs" at his summer home in the
> country. The neighboring farmer, who was somewhat of a redneck, ate them
> all for dinner.

He could have never done that with guineas ... unless he caught them
roosting at night.

However, they do make a helluva gumbo!

:)

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On Sat, 01 May 2010 16:06:19 -0400, the infamous "J. Clarke"
<[email protected]> scrawled the following:

>On 5/1/2010 11:57 AM, Max wrote:
>> "notbob" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> On 2010-04-30, Max <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Any recommendations?
>>>
>>> Get a gun-owner-lives-here sticker.
>>>
>>> nb
>>
>>
>> I have a little sticker on the most obvious front window that says,
>> "Protected by Smith & Wesson".
>> It's next to the alarm co. sticker.
>> The Smith & Wesson is a 40 S&W. It's kept loaded. (no kids at home)
>> I'm not deeply concerned with a home intrusion while I'm here but we
>> travel quite a bit.
>
>One guy I knew added a fired target. A human torso shaped target with
>the groin shot out.

That's good and scary. <vbg>

http://fwd4.me/MI1 I like this sign, too.

--
Courage is the power to let go of the familiar.
-- Raymond Lindquist

Larry Jaques <[email protected]> wrote:

>The sliding glass door was shattered with a 30 pound rock in the
>middle of the day, in broad daylight in a close neighborhood. None of
>the retired neighbors (as close as 40' away) heard a thing. Amazing.

The rule I've heard is that you can get away with a single loud noise. People
might say "What's that?" but usually won't investigate. That slider breaking
will probably just be a sharp crack sound that could be anything. -- Doug

On 2010-04-30, Max <[email protected]> wrote:

> Any recommendations?

Get a gun-owner-lives-here sticker.

nb

On Sun, 2 May 2010 14:38:41 -0700, the infamous "Lobby Dosser"
<[email protected]> scrawled the following:

>"Larry Jaques" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...


>>>You think the old lady was shooting LRHP rounds? Seems a might far
>>>fetched.
>>
>> The cylinder on that pistola was long enough and that style round is
>> the self-defense default. Why does it seem farfetched to you?
>
>A little old lady ...

A video's worth thousands of words:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdDj0Syzrn8 with a MG.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1PJThTQx4M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmcQB9yQzjs&feature=related AR-15 semi.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7z288zuTOkM with a Glock.
and .357s, .44 mags, etc.

Again, why does a LR cartridge seem farfetched?

--
Courage is the power to let go of the familiar.
-- Raymond Lindquist

On Mon, 3 May 2010 06:45:28 -0700, "Lew Hodgett"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
>"Swingman" wrote:
>
>> Guinea hens ...
>--------------------------------------------
>Guinea hens make a racket but a gander will also take of bite out of
>you.
>
>Even worse, mama goose with a hatch of goslings.
>
>I watched one rework a barn cat.
>
>Lew
>
>
>


I have seen a goose attacked and knocked down a woman. Found out
later the goose had a nearby nest of eggs she was protecting.

Morris Dovey <[email protected]> wrote:

>Speaking of "kick resistant", you might get a kick out of this recent
>story...
>
> http://www.kcci.com/news/23208133/detail.html
>
>"And the police reloaded it for me"

Granny rocks. But some target practice and a heavier caliber would be a good
idea. -- Doug

On Sat, 1 May 2010 22:17:18 -0700, the infamous "Lew Hodgett"
<[email protected]> scrawled the following:

>
>"Larry Jaques" wrote:
>
>> Cool. BUT, I don't see why that guy was afraid of the little .22,
>> do
>> you?
>------------------------------------------
>Once again you speak while having your head where the moon doesn't
>shine.

You're right. There's no moonshine in me arse.


>Having shot tens of thousands of rounds of .22 long riffle hollow
>point rounds, trust me, it would be no problem to sever the spinal
>column resulting in instaneous death with a single .22 LRHP round.

Sure, from a bench rest with a scope against an immovable object with
rings marking the X on it, shots like that are easy.


>Think of it as a baby dum dum.

Oh, sure, .22s are definitely lethal weapons, Lew. But if someone
wants to get at you, a .22 generally does NOT provide one-slug
stopping power.

And when is the last time you put a slug through an attacking
burglar--into his spine--when he was running at you and your body is
full of adrenaline? Hmm? That's why COM shots are gently suggested.

Aunt Bea didn't even HIT him with her shot. She was damned lucky he
wasn't a violent criminal or he could have beaten and raped her, AND
stolen her gun and valuables.

--
Courage is the power to let go of the familiar.
-- Raymond Lindquist

On Sun, 02 May 2010 05:33:11 -0400, "J. Clarke" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On 5/2/2010 2:30 AM, Rumple Stiltskin wrote:
>> "Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>> "Larry Jaques" wrote:
>>>
>>>> Cool. BUT, I don't see why that guy was afraid of the little .22, do
>>>> you?
>>> ------------------------------------------
>>> Once again you speak while having your head where the moon doesn't shine.
>>>
>>> Having shot tens of thousands of rounds of .22 long riffle hollow
>>> point rounds, trust me, it would be no problem to sever the spinal
>>> column resulting in instaneous death with a single .22 LRHP round.
>>>
>>> Think of it as a baby dum dum.
>>>
>>> Lew
>>>
>>>
>>
>> You think the old lady was shooting LRHP rounds? Seems a might far fetched.
>
>If you think that a .22 is nothing to be afraid of, then please shoot
>yourself in the head with one.

A friend of my uncle's bagged a black bear with a .22LR. One shot, between
the eyes. She also bagged a polar bear (the rug was in their den), but not
with a .22.

On May 1, 9:07=A0am, "Max" <[email protected]> wrote:

> The deadbolts are still in good shape and I thought I would have them
> re-keyed to accept the same key as the new entry locksets.
> That would entail getting the same brand as the original so I might go th=
e
> expense of replacing both.
>
> Max (still pondering)

Just a couple of thoughts here. If you look at the Medeco or Best
brands, you will find that a lockset or deadbolt will run about $200
for each unit. i have installed hundreds of the Medeco, but no Best
branded locks. The Medecos are top flight, but they retain a definite
commercial appearance as that is their market.

If you go the commercial route, make sure you check out the
installation instructions. Most of them are box style locks, and you
will either need some real time and patience to install them, or rent/
buy a deep mortise machine. For the most part these are not locks
that you remove the old lock and simply screw a new one of them in the
old holes.

Through all the years of installing Schlage, Kwickset, Baldwins, Ball,
Yale and a slew of Chinese stuff, I like the Schlage for their price
point. As I have said before, I used to have a contract with a local
company to install their doors, and I have put a lot of Schlage
product on. Never had a service or warranty call. Their newer
finishes on their polished brass (starting about 5 years ago) hold up
great.

The upper line has a good finish on it in polished nickel, oiled
bronze, etc., that lasts well. The mechanicals are solid on their
hardware. Make sure you get a deadbolt that has a 1" throw.

I put Schlage on my house about 27 years ago, and the front door lock
still works smooth as silk. The only maintenance I have ever done on
the lock was to take it out and clean it and re-oil it after every ten
year mark.

The most important thing with any lock is the installation. I get
good service out of the stainless steel generic brands ("Defender",
"Titan" and such) for sheds, landlord repairs, etc., because I take
the time to adjust the lock to work properly.

A lock is working properly when you can close the door easily with one
finger and all you get is a "click". The deadbolt works correctly if
you turn the key and can barely feel the plunger assembly move.

The best additional security I do for my clients is to change out the
screws in the jamb side of the mortise. Instead of using the 5/8"
supplied screws, I get 2 1/2" screws in cadmium to install the strike
plates for both locksets and deadbolts. It takes an incredible amount
of energy to get those out of the jamb with brute force.

Good luck!

Robert

On Sun, 2 May 2010 09:27:50 -0700, "Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>"Larry Jaques" wrote:
>
>> And when is the last time you put a slug through an attacking
>> burglar--into his spine--when he was running at you and your body is
>> full of adrenaline? Hmm? That's why COM shots are gently
>> suggested.
>-----------------------------------------
>My weapon of choice inside the home would a circumcised double
>barreled 12 GA with both barrels loaded with 00 buckshot whose
>express purpose would be removing the genitals.
>
>Anything inside 50 ft is mine.

You think granny could handle a 12GA?

>As far as the legality of the weapon is concerned, that's why
>$1,000/hour
>people exist.

Because you have no use for money while you're in prison?

On May 1, 10:58=A0am, Morris Dovey <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 5/1/2010 9:35 AM, Douglas Johnson wrote:
>
> > "Max"<[email protected]> =A0wrote:
>
> >> "Dave Balderstone"<dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_Sbalderstone.ca> =A0wrote
>
> >>> Locks are to keep your friends out. No lock is pick or bump proof.
>
> >> "Resistant"?
>
> > Your typical residental burgler couldn't pick a lock to save their life=
. =A0Think
> > "kick resistant". =A0You want a good long deadbolt that sets into a str=
ong plate
> > with screws that go deep into the framing. =A0Don't forget good long sc=
rews in the
> > hinges. =A0Even then, you are just slowing them down a few seconds. =A0=
-- Doug
>
> Speaking of "kick resistant", you might get a kick out of this recent
> story...
>
> =A0 =A0http://www.kcci.com/news/23208133/detail.html
>
> "And the police reloaded it for me"
>
> --
> Morris Dovey
> DeSoto Solar
> DeSoto, Iowa USAhttp://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

I love a story with a happy ending.

On Sat, 1 May 2010 13:49:57 -0600, "Max" <[email protected]> wrote:

>"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> Max wrote:
>>>
>>> Any recommendations?
>> ------------------------------------------------
>> How difficult is it to enter your locked home with the universal house
>> key, a 16# sledge or a well thrown concrete block?
>>
>> Would be a much higher priority than a lockset IMHO.
>>
>> Lew
>
>Um..... Am I being presumptuous to assume that you're about to tell me how
>to overcome those other deficiencies?
>I would be willing to re-prioritize. At this point, I feel as if I've done
>about all I can do with the windows and walls.
>Wrought iron window guards are ubiquitous in this town so as unsightly as
>they might seem, we have them. Also on the doors. But a chain hooked to a
>vehicle would likely overcome those.
>And a 16# sledge, as obvious as it might appear to neighbors, would wreak
>havoc on my brick veneer (actually "slump block") walls.
>I can only hope a neighbor, friend, relative, passerby or the police might
>wonder why someone is trying to dismantle my humble dwelling.
>Especially if the vibrations happen to set off the alarm.
>As Balderstone cleverly pointed out, "If someone wants in, they're coming
>in." I'm not really worried about them "coming" in. Not while I'm there.
>I can take care of that. It's when we're gone and they want to "get" in
>that concerns me.
>Seriously, all I'm looking for is a replacement for the cheap hardware that
>is on the house at present. And I'd rather not replace it with something
>just as cheap. Did you catch Robert's comments? Perfect.

A sign in the front lawn pointing out the neighbor who doesn't believe in
second-amendment rights and indicating that you will respect his wishes and
not to use guns on his property, might work too.

On Sat, 1 May 2010 10:08:12 -0700, "Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Max wrote:
>>
>> Any recommendations?
>------------------------------------------------
>How difficult is it to enter your locked home with the universal house
>key, a 16# sledge or a well thrown concrete block?
>
>Would be a much higher priority than a lockset IMHO.
>
A good, current, insurance policy is a higher priority, IMO.

On 4/30/2010 8:59 PM, Dave Balderstone wrote:
> In article<[email protected]>, Max
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> This is likely not the appropriate NG to be asking but I'm so impressed with
>> the knowledge here (G) that I thought I'd ask anyway.
>> I want to replace all the exterior door locksets and deadbolts.
>> I've read a few "reviews" on some but what say you all?
>> I don't want to spend a fortune but like most of my purchases, I'll spend
>> whatever it takes to assure reasonable security. ("bumpproof", pick
>> resistant, etc)
>> Any recommendations?
>
> Locks are to keep your friends out. No lock is pick or bump proof.

They had a story about bumping locks on the TV news here
a while back. They showed that it was quick and easy,
but what the police said was the big thing. They said
that very few burglars bothered. Kicking the door in
is faster.

Bill

On 4/30/2010 5:51 PM, Max wrote:
> This is likely not the appropriate NG to be asking but I'm so impressed
> with the knowledge here (G) that I thought I'd ask anyway.
> I want to replace all the exterior door locksets and deadbolts.
> I've read a few "reviews" on some but what say you all?
> I don't want to spend a fortune but like most of my purchases, I'll
> spend whatever it takes to assure reasonable security. ("bumpproof",
> pick resistant, etc)
> Any recommendations?

Have you rendered your doors and windows resistant to likely levels of
force? If not then you need to do that before you have to worry about
whether your locks can be picked--most intruders don't pick locks, they
break something.

If you're really concerned about bumping then call a locksmith and have
him rekey your existing locks with bumproof cylinders. It will likely
be cheaper than replacing them all with bumproof locks.

On 5/1/2010 9:35 AM, Douglas Johnson wrote:
> "Max"<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> "Dave Balderstone"<dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_Sbalderstone.ca> wrote
>>
>>> Locks are to keep your friends out. No lock is pick or bump proof.
>>
>> "Resistant"?
>
> Your typical residental burgler couldn't pick a lock to save their life. Think
> "kick resistant". You want a good long deadbolt that sets into a strong plate
> with screws that go deep into the framing. Don't forget good long screws in the
> hinges. Even then, you are just slowing them down a few seconds. -- Doug

Speaking of "kick resistant", you might get a kick out of this recent
story...

http://www.kcci.com/news/23208133/detail.html

"And the police reloaded it for me"

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

Max wrote:

> This is likely not the appropriate NG to be asking but I'm so impressed
> with the knowledge here (G) that I thought I'd ask anyway.
> I want to replace all the exterior door locksets and deadbolts.
> I've read a few "reviews" on some but what say you all?
> I don't want to spend a fortune but like most of my purchases, I'll spend
> whatever it takes to assure reasonable security. ("bumpproof", pick
> resistant, etc)
> Any recommendations?
>
> Max
Did a job a few months back where the owner did extensive research on Locks
and windows. Most of the Alarm Companies said most of the burglaries
occurred at the front door, specially double doors with window. Kick in the
door or break the window. Second windows opened and only protected by a
screen. The owner is an engineer and he himself developed a screen that has
very small signal wires running through it. When the screen is removed or
cut it breaks a very small current and triggers the alarm. His concern was
at night when it was cool and he wanted to leave his windows opened, also
didn't want the window to trigger alarm every time you opened and closed
windows. Think he's in the process of patenting it.


--
You can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK !
Mandriva 2010 using KDE 4.3
Website: www.rentmyhusband.biz

On 5/1/2010 3:54 PM, Max wrote:
> <[email protected]> wrote
>
>> "Lew Hodgett" wrote:
>
>>> ------------------------------------------------
>>> How difficult is it to enter your locked home with the universal house
>>> key, a 16# sledge or a well thrown concrete block?
>>>
>>> Would be a much higher priority than a lockset IMHO.
>>>
>> A good, current, insurance policy is a higher priority, IMO.
>
>
> Fully covered but I don't think it would replace a lot of personal
> items, i.e. pictures, collectibles, etc.

Then add the appropriate rider.

On 5/1/2010 11:57 AM, Max wrote:
> "notbob" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> On 2010-04-30, Max <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> Any recommendations?
>>
>> Get a gun-owner-lives-here sticker.
>>
>> nb
>
>
> I have a little sticker on the most obvious front window that says,
> "Protected by Smith & Wesson".
> It's next to the alarm co. sticker.
> The Smith & Wesson is a 40 S&W. It's kept loaded. (no kids at home)
> I'm not deeply concerned with a home intrusion while I'm here but we
> travel quite a bit.

One guy I knew added a fired target. A human torso shaped target with
the groin shot out.

"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Larry Jaques" wrote:
>
>> Cool. BUT, I don't see why that guy was afraid of the little .22, do
>> you?
> ------------------------------------------
> Once again you speak while having your head where the moon doesn't shine.
>
> Having shot tens of thousands of rounds of .22 long riffle hollow point
> rounds, trust me, it would be no problem to sever the spinal column
> resulting in instaneous death with a single .22 LRHP round.
>
> Think of it as a baby dum dum.
>
> Lew
>
>

You think the old lady was shooting LRHP rounds? Seems a might far fetched.

On 5/2/2010 2:30 AM, Rumple Stiltskin wrote:
> "Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> "Larry Jaques" wrote:
>>
>>> Cool. BUT, I don't see why that guy was afraid of the little .22, do
>>> you?
>> ------------------------------------------
>> Once again you speak while having your head where the moon doesn't shine.
>>
>> Having shot tens of thousands of rounds of .22 long riffle hollow
>> point rounds, trust me, it would be no problem to sever the spinal
>> column resulting in instaneous death with a single .22 LRHP round.
>>
>> Think of it as a baby dum dum.
>>
>> Lew
>>
>>
>
> You think the old lady was shooting LRHP rounds? Seems a might far fetched.

If you think that a .22 is nothing to be afraid of, then please shoot
yourself in the head with one.

In article <[email protected]>, " Rumple Stiltskin" <[email protected]> wrote:

>You think the old lady was shooting LRHP rounds? Seems a might far fetched.

The weapon shown in the photograph is certainly capable of firing them.

"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 5/2/2010 2:30 AM, Rumple Stiltskin wrote:
>> "Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>> "Larry Jaques" wrote:
>>>
>>>> Cool. BUT, I don't see why that guy was afraid of the little .22, do
>>>> you?
>>> ------------------------------------------
>>> Once again you speak while having your head where the moon doesn't
>>> shine.
>>>
>>> Having shot tens of thousands of rounds of .22 long riffle hollow
>>> point rounds, trust me, it would be no problem to sever the spinal
>>> column resulting in instaneous death with a single .22 LRHP round.
>>>
>>> Think of it as a baby dum dum.
>>>
>>> Lew
>>>
>>>
>>
>> You think the old lady was shooting LRHP rounds? Seems a might far
>> fetched.
>
> If you think that a .22 is nothing to be afraid of, then please shoot
> yourself in the head with one.
>

Didn't say that.

"Larry Jaques" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sat, 1 May 2010 23:30:15 -0700, the infamous " Rumple Stiltskin"
> <[email protected]> scrawled the following:
>
>>"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>> "Larry Jaques" wrote:
>>>
>>>> Cool. BUT, I don't see why that guy was afraid of the little .22, do
>>>> you?
>>> ------------------------------------------
>>> Once again you speak while having your head where the moon doesn't
>>> shine.
>>>
>>> Having shot tens of thousands of rounds of .22 long riffle hollow point
>>> rounds, trust me, it would be no problem to sever the spinal column
>>> resulting in instaneous death with a single .22 LRHP round.
>>>
>>> Think of it as a baby dum dum.
>>>
>>> Lew
>>>
>>>
>>
>>You think the old lady was shooting LRHP rounds? Seems a might far
>>fetched.
>
> The cylinder on that pistola was long enough and that style round is
> the self-defense default. Why does it seem farfetched to you?

A little old lady ...

On 5/2/2010 5:38 PM, Lobby Dosser wrote:
> "Larry Jaques" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> On Sat, 1 May 2010 23:30:15 -0700, the infamous " Rumple Stiltskin"
>> <[email protected]> scrawled the following:
>>
>>> "Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>
>>>> "Larry Jaques" wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Cool. BUT, I don't see why that guy was afraid of the little .22, do
>>>>> you?
>>>> ------------------------------------------
>>>> Once again you speak while having your head where the moon doesn't
>>>> shine.
>>>>
>>>> Having shot tens of thousands of rounds of .22 long riffle hollow point
>>>> rounds, trust me, it would be no problem to sever the spinal column
>>>> resulting in instaneous death with a single .22 LRHP round.
>>>>
>>>> Think of it as a baby dum dum.
>>>>
>>>> Lew
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> You think the old lady was shooting LRHP rounds? Seems a might far
>>> fetched.
>>
>> The cylinder on that pistola was long enough and that style round is
>> the self-defense default. Why does it seem farfetched to you?
>
> A little old lady ...

What difference does it make? .22s have good penetration, quite
adequate to go through important bits of your brain or your heart. They
have little stopping power but with good shot placement they'll kill you
deader'n Hell. It's just gonna take a while for you to die.

By the way, when it's pointed at you by someone you think intends to use
it a "little .22" looks like the Holland Tunnel.

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Robert Bonomi) wrote:
[...]
>The single *biggest* thing you can do for home security is to _not_ use
>a clock mechanism where the lock is integral to the door-knob.

I respectfully disagree. IMHO, the single biggest thing you can do for home
security is to own a dog.

"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 5/2/2010 5:38 PM, Lobby Dosser wrote:
>> "Larry Jaques" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> On Sat, 1 May 2010 23:30:15 -0700, the infamous " Rumple Stiltskin"
>>> <[email protected]> scrawled the following:
>>>
>>>> "Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>>
>>>>> "Larry Jaques" wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Cool. BUT, I don't see why that guy was afraid of the little .22, do
>>>>>> you?
>>>>> ------------------------------------------
>>>>> Once again you speak while having your head where the moon doesn't
>>>>> shine.
>>>>>
>>>>> Having shot tens of thousands of rounds of .22 long riffle hollow
>>>>> point
>>>>> rounds, trust me, it would be no problem to sever the spinal column
>>>>> resulting in instaneous death with a single .22 LRHP round.
>>>>>
>>>>> Think of it as a baby dum dum.
>>>>>
>>>>> Lew
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You think the old lady was shooting LRHP rounds? Seems a might far
>>>> fetched.
>>>
>>> The cylinder on that pistola was long enough and that style round is
>>> the self-defense default. Why does it seem farfetched to you?
>>
>> A little old lady ...
>
> What difference does it make? .22s have good penetration, quite adequate
> to go through important bits of your brain or your heart. They have
> little stopping power but with good shot placement they'll kill you
> deader'n Hell. It's just gonna take a while for you to die.
>
> By the way, when it's pointed at you by someone you think intends to use
> it a "little .22" looks like the Holland Tunnel.
>
>
>

So you think she buys hollow points?

On 5/2/2010 10:38 PM, Lobby Dosser wrote:
> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> On 5/2/2010 5:38 PM, Lobby Dosser wrote:
>>> "Larry Jaques" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>> On Sat, 1 May 2010 23:30:15 -0700, the infamous " Rumple Stiltskin"
>>>> <[email protected]> scrawled the following:
>>>>
>>>>> "Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Larry Jaques" wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cool. BUT, I don't see why that guy was afraid of the little .22, do
>>>>>>> you?
>>>>>> ------------------------------------------
>>>>>> Once again you speak while having your head where the moon doesn't
>>>>>> shine.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Having shot tens of thousands of rounds of .22 long riffle hollow
>>>>>> point
>>>>>> rounds, trust me, it would be no problem to sever the spinal column
>>>>>> resulting in instaneous death with a single .22 LRHP round.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Think of it as a baby dum dum.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lew
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> You think the old lady was shooting LRHP rounds? Seems a might far
>>>>> fetched.
>>>>
>>>> The cylinder on that pistola was long enough and that style round is
>>>> the self-defense default. Why does it seem farfetched to you?
>>>
>>> A little old lady ...
>>
>> What difference does it make? .22s have good penetration, quite
>> adequate to go through important bits of your brain or your heart.
>> They have little stopping power but with good shot placement they'll
>> kill you deader'n Hell. It's just gonna take a while for you to die.
>>
>> By the way, when it's pointed at you by someone you think intends to
>> use it a "little .22" looks like the Holland Tunnel.
>>
>>
>>
>
> So you think she buys hollow points?

I think it makes no difference what she buys.

"Larry Jaques" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sun, 2 May 2010 14:38:41 -0700, the infamous "Lobby Dosser"
> <[email protected]> scrawled the following:
>
>>"Larry Jaques" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]...
>
>
>>>>You think the old lady was shooting LRHP rounds? Seems a might far
>>>>fetched.
>>>
>>> The cylinder on that pistola was long enough and that style round is
>>> the self-defense default. Why does it seem farfetched to you?
>>
>>A little old lady ...
>
> A video's worth thousands of words:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdDj0Syzrn8 with a MG.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1PJThTQx4M
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmcQB9yQzjs&feature=related AR-15 semi.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7z288zuTOkM with a Glock.
> and .357s, .44 mags, etc.
>
> Again, why does a LR cartridge seem farfetched?


Why would anyone think that she had LRHP rounds. Not the most common round.
LR, maybe.

The best I found was Abloy.
But it is very commercial looking.




"Max" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> This is likely not the appropriate NG to be asking but I'm so impressed
> with the knowledge here (G) that I thought I'd ask anyway.
> I want to replace all the exterior door locksets and deadbolts.
> I've read a few "reviews" on some but what say you all?
> I don't want to spend a fortune but like most of my purchases, I'll spend
> whatever it takes to assure reasonable security. ("bumpproof", pick
> resistant, etc)
> Any recommendations?
>
> Max

On Sat, 01 May 2010 09:58:07 -0500, the infamous Morris Dovey
<[email protected]> scrawled the following:

>On 5/1/2010 9:35 AM, Douglas Johnson wrote:
>> "Max"<[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> "Dave Balderstone"<dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_Sbalderstone.ca> wrote
>>>
>>>> Locks are to keep your friends out. No lock is pick or bump proof.
>>>
>>> "Resistant"?
>>
>> Your typical residental burgler couldn't pick a lock to save their life. Think
>> "kick resistant". You want a good long deadbolt that sets into a strong plate
>> with screws that go deep into the framing. Don't forget good long screws in the
>> hinges. Even then, you are just slowing them down a few seconds. -- Doug
>
>Speaking of "kick resistant", you might get a kick out of this recent
>story...
>
> http://www.kcci.com/news/23208133/detail.html
>
>"And the police reloaded it for me"

Cool. BUT, I don't see why that guy was afraid of the little .22, do
you? Maybe it was the loud noise it made which sent him back out of
the house. He thought "Damn, that'll rouse the neighbors to call
police.", I'll bet. He looked big enough to handle all 6 shots and
keep on comin'.

P.S: Goodonya, Aunt Bea!

--
Courage is the power to let go of the familiar.
-- Raymond Lindquist

In article <[email protected]>,
Max <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>I Googled that and ended up with "Schlage Max". Looks promising.
>Thanks.


Schlage is onwe of the better basic residential-grade lock mechansims.
There are several others at roughly comparable prices that are equally
good. Go to a professional locksmith shop and see what they sell for *BASIC*
locks. :)

Note: about all that 'higher security' (Note: *NOT* true "HIGH security")
locks like MEDCO buy you is that someone who gets their hands (temporarily)
on you keys will have a very difficult time copying it.

For basic business use the standard of reference for base-level security
is the Yale brand.

To _rationally_ go beyond anything of that level, one needs to spend
time considering, and 'hardening against attack' the -oter- possible
means of ingress. e.g. things like security bars on the windows, and
metal entry doors set in metal frames.

The single *biggest* thing you can do for home security is to _not_ use
a clock mechanism where the lock is integral to the door-knob. Regardless
of the quality oft he lock mechanism, those are defeatable with a simple
pipe wrench.

Comment: the _first_ step in any kind of security/defense plan is to
quantify the type of _threat_ you are attempting to protect against.
Doing that gives you a *LOT* of information with regard to establishing
what you need to do for protection.

Some basic threat classes:
1) the -property- is a 'target of opportunity' -- the bad guy is 'just
passing by' and decides to see if he can break in. It is generally
"sufficient" to be 'more difficult than nearby properties' to break
into.
2) -you- are a 'target of opportunity' -- someone gets ahold of (or copies)
your keys and decides to 'see what can be seen'. This is where
copy-resistant keys like MEDCO are very effective.
3) You, or your property, are selected 'with malice aforethought' as the
target of a WELL-PLANNED, carefully directed (and executed), attack.
Nothing short of a full-time professional security force will so much
as slow these kinds of attackers down.

On Sun, 02 May 2010 07:55:44 -0700, Larry Jaques <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On Sat, 1 May 2010 22:17:18 -0700, the infamous "Lew Hodgett"
><[email protected]> scrawled the following:
>
>>
>>"Larry Jaques" wrote:
>>
>>> Cool. BUT, I don't see why that guy was afraid of the little .22,
>>> do
>>> you?
>>------------------------------------------
>>Once again you speak while having your head where the moon doesn't
>>shine.
>
>You're right. There's no moonshine in me arse.
>
>
>>Having shot tens of thousands of rounds of .22 long riffle hollow
>>point rounds, trust me, it would be no problem to sever the spinal
>>column resulting in instaneous death with a single .22 LRHP round.
>
>Sure, from a bench rest with a scope against an immovable object with
>rings marking the X on it, shots like that are easy.
>
>
>>Think of it as a baby dum dum.
>
>Oh, sure, .22s are definitely lethal weapons, Lew. But if someone
>wants to get at you, a .22 generally does NOT provide one-slug
>stopping power.

The Mossaid uses .22LRs (Berretta 71s, IIRC) quite successfully to off
terrorists while they're on vacation.

>And when is the last time you put a slug through an attacking
>burglar--into his spine--when he was running at you and your body is
>full of adrenaline? Hmm? That's why COM shots are gently suggested.
>
>Aunt Bea didn't even HIT him with her shot. She was damned lucky he
>wasn't a violent criminal or he could have beaten and raped her, AND
>stolen her gun and valuables.

Aunt Bea wouldn't likely be any more dangerous with a .357, though.

"[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote:

>A good, current, insurance policy is a higher priority, IMO.

Bingo. -- Doug

"Max" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> This is likely not the appropriate NG to be asking but I'm so impressed
> with the knowledge here (G) that I thought I'd ask anyway.
> I want to replace all the exterior door locksets and deadbolts.
> I've read a few "reviews" on some but what say you all?
> I don't want to spend a fortune but like most of my purchases, I'll spend
> whatever it takes to assure reasonable security. ("bumpproof", pick
> resistant, etc)
> Any recommendations?
>
> Max Slagg brand. (spelling?) Is supposed to be bump proof. That is what I
> have. BUT They will lock you out if you leave in locked setting but will
> let you out. WW

"Robert Bonomi" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Max <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>I Googled that and ended up with "Schlage Max". Looks
>>promising.
>>Thanks.
>
>
> Schlage is onwe of the better basic residential-grade lock
> mechansims.
> There are several others at roughly comparable prices that are
> equally
> good. Go to a professional locksmith shop and see what they sell
> for *BASIC*
> locks. :)
>
> Note: about all that 'higher security' (Note: *NOT* true "HIGH
> security")
> locks like MEDCO buy you is that someone who gets their hands
> (temporarily)
> on you keys will have a very difficult time copying it.
>
> For basic business use the standard of reference for base-level
> security
> is the Yale brand.
>
> To _rationally_ go beyond anything of that level, one needs to
> spend
> time considering, and 'hardening against attack' the -oter-
> possible
> means of ingress. e.g. things like security bars on the
> windows, and
> metal entry doors set in metal frames.
>
> The single *biggest* thing you can do for home security is to
> _not_ use
> a clock mechanism where the lock is integral to the door-knob.
> Regardless
> of the quality oft he lock mechanism, those are defeatable with
> a simple
> pipe wrench.
>
> Comment: the _first_ step in any kind of security/defense plan
> is to
> quantify the type of _threat_ you are attempting to protect
> against.
> Doing that gives you a *LOT* of information with regard to
> establishing
> what you need to do for protection.
>
> Some basic threat classes:
> 1) the -property- is a 'target of opportunity' -- the bad guy
> is 'just
> passing by' and decides to see if he can break in. It is
> generally
> "sufficient" to be 'more difficult than nearby properties'
> to break
> into.
> 2) -you- are a 'target of opportunity' -- someone gets ahold of
> (or copies)
> your keys and decides to 'see what can be seen'. This is
> where
> copy-resistant keys like MEDCO are very effective.
> 3) You, or your property, are selected 'with malice
> aforethought' as the
> target of a WELL-PLANNED, carefully directed (and executed),
> attack.
> Nothing short of a full-time professional security force
> will so much
> as slow these kinds of attackers down.
>
>

Where we live, most home burglaries are done as targets of
opportunity. In even a residential neighborhood, a home gets
rented out and soon fills with "economically deprived" souls.
Soon, it's time to make a rent payment, buy some drugs, pay the
dealer or get gasoline for the pickup, and a couple of them will
locate an apparently empty house, toss a rock through the patio
door and grab what they can easily carry away and readily sell.
The sales take place at flea markets, pawn shops and the
improvised stores found in the more traditional neighborhoods for
these poor, suffering souls.

Most of the burglaries take place in homes where the home is
viewable from a public area- which is how it's selected. One
exception is the day laborers used by landscape maintenance crews,
painters and other contractors visiting a neighborhood.
Gated communities have a slight advantage, since even if a car
follows you in thorough the gate, it's something a neighbor might
see. Guard gated communities have a real advantage there, along
with registration of all visitors and videotapes of the people
inside the autos. Nothing is perfect. For instance, we have
friends in a very nice home. To get there, we have to be admitted
by a guard via the guard gate and the site is videotaped from
different angles. We then drive through the subdivision and are
faced with an electronic second gate. There, we either have to
enter the code or call the guard house to have the gate opened.
Once inside that subcompound, we reach our friend's home.

Did I mention that the home backs up to a public, yes PUBLIC golf
courses? Yup, we sit in our friend's back yard, by their pool,
and look over the 3' wrought iron fence and speak to the golfers
waiting to tee off on the 8th hole. How's that for security?
<grin>

Homes in the interior of a subdivision are far less likely to be
hit than a home adjoining a fence between it and a street,
sidewalk, park or other accessible area. For a house to have a
lock picked or even the door forced would be exceptional. Here,
it's almost always a smash, grab and run situation. Usually, the
burglars are too high on drugs or just too plain stupid to realize
that many homeowners now have cameras. However, the physical
presence of a camera or "Monitored Alarm" stickers on windows and
doors probably help them decide to go see your neighbor instead of
you.

We have also had a rash of home invasions in town. There, the
intruders have almost universally picked homes with opened doors
that were visible from driving down a street.

Personally, I follow the rule of keeping exterior doors locked and
window locked, except for ventilation. We have sun screens, so
opened windows are not visible. . . particularly at night.
However, I don't go nuts and put on $400 locksets to the front
door, since I know that any patio door or window would be the
entryway of choice for a thief of opportunity. One possibility
that some might consider is the heavy (tint/reflectivity optional)
window films that can be applied to glass. They're just a heavier
duty version of the normal window films, but WILL stop a guy using
a rock or hammer to open the glass door. Nothing's perfect, but
the guy's not going to want to stand there pounding on the door.

In our case, we have the typical alarm system, including IR
detectors, door and window switches and fire. I personally
installed several 140dBa sirens INSIDE the house. One is near
electronic equipment, another in the garage where I have my tools
and the third by our master BR and my office. Trust me, when
those suckers sound off, nobody hangs around. They won't stop an
entry, but will sure make it miserable for the burglar to go
rummaging around.

--
Nonny
On most days,
it’s just not worth
the effort of chewing
through the restraints..

On Sat, 1 May 2010 14:53:30 -0600, the infamous "Max"
<[email protected]> scrawled the following:

>"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> Max wrote:
>>> Um..... Am I being presumptuous to assume that you're about to tell me
>>> how to overcome those other deficiencies?
>> ------------------
>> Not at all, but locks keep honest people honest.
>>
>> Beyond that, they are about as useful as a set of breasts on a boar hog.
>>
>> If somebody wants in, they are coming in.
>>
>> If it takes them more than 5 minutes to rob you blind, they are probably
>> going to get caught.
>>
>> Plan accordingly.
>
>Put the good stuff close to the front door? <G>

And they break in, see that, and immediately think "Wow, if this stuff
is just lying around, I wonder where he keeps the really good stuff!"
;)

--
Courage is the power to let go of the familiar.
-- Raymond Lindquist

A large pecan grower along the Rio Grande near El Paso had unwanted
visitors coming through and foraging as well as helping themselves to
equipment and tools. The dogs within were often bought off with
slabs of meat. They switched to Geese and that kept out the unwanted.

It later turned out that the large population of geese brought more
cash in each year than the pecans!

He kept both running.
Naturally, if the unwanted had shotguns the geese might not have faired
just so.
Martin

Nova wrote:
> Lew Hodgett wrote:
>> "Doug Miller" wrote:
>>
>>
>>> I respectfully disagree. IMHO, the single biggest thing you can do
>>> for home
>>> security is to own a dog.
>>
>> --------------------------------------------
>> Try a gander.
>>
>> Lew
>>
>>
>
> A co-worker tried six geese as "watch dogs" at his summer home in the
> country. The neighboring farmer, who was somewhat of a redneck, ate
> them all for dinner.
>

On Sat, 01 May 2010 13:30:23 -0500, the infamous
"[email protected]" <[email protected]> scrawled the
following:

>On Sat, 1 May 2010 10:08:12 -0700, "Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>
>>Max wrote:
>>>
>>> Any recommendations?
>>------------------------------------------------
>>How difficult is it to enter your locked home with the universal house
>>key, a 16# sledge or a well thrown concrete block?
>>
>>Would be a much higher priority than a lockset IMHO.
>>
>A good, current, insurance policy is a higher priority, IMO.

With video confirmation of home contents stored offsite and updated
annually.

--
Courage is the power to let go of the familiar.
-- Raymond Lindquist

On Sat, 01 May 2010 09:40:19 -0500, the infamous Douglas Johnson
<[email protected]> scrawled the following:

>Larry Jaques <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>The sliding glass door was shattered with a 30 pound rock in the
>>middle of the day, in broad daylight in a close neighborhood. None of
>>the retired neighbors (as close as 40' away) heard a thing. Amazing.
>
>The rule I've heard is that you can get away with a single loud noise. People
>might say "What's that?" but usually won't investigate. That slider breaking
>will probably just be a sharp crack sound that could be anything. -- Doug

Haven't you ever heard a large window breaking? It goes on for
several seconds with loud tinkling sounds. It's damned noisy.
Kicking a door in is one loud, low thud and it's over. No way to
triangulate noise, but the window should have lasted long enough to
locate, if anyone was in earshot. <shrug>

Gloria never did get her $12,000 diamond ring back.

--
Courage is the power to let go of the familiar.
-- Raymond Lindquist

On Mon, 03 May 2010 13:37:24 -0500, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote
the following:

>On 5/3/2010 1:34 PM, Robatoy wrote:
>
>> 6 normal dead bolts. In a row. Lock 3. If they are pickers, they'll be
>> unlocking the locked 3 and locking the unlocked ones....that could
>> take a while.
>
>ROTFLMAO ...

Isn't that what Whoopi Goldberg did in "Burglar" last century?

--
Courage is the power to let go of the familiar.
-- Raymond Lindquist

On Sat, 1 May 2010 23:30:15 -0700, the infamous " Rumple Stiltskin"
<[email protected]> scrawled the following:

>"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>>
>> "Larry Jaques" wrote:
>>
>>> Cool. BUT, I don't see why that guy was afraid of the little .22, do
>>> you?
>> ------------------------------------------
>> Once again you speak while having your head where the moon doesn't shine.
>>
>> Having shot tens of thousands of rounds of .22 long riffle hollow point
>> rounds, trust me, it would be no problem to sever the spinal column
>> resulting in instaneous death with a single .22 LRHP round.
>>
>> Think of it as a baby dum dum.
>>
>> Lew
>>
>>
>
>You think the old lady was shooting LRHP rounds? Seems a might far fetched.

The cylinder on that pistola was long enough and that style round is
the self-defense default. Why does it seem farfetched to you? A Short
is lucky to penetrate deeply enough to hit bone and stop, let alone
stop an attacker.

--
Courage is the power to let go of the familiar.
-- Raymond Lindquist

On Fri, 30 Apr 2010 20:33:46 -0600, the infamous Dave Balderstone
<dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_Sbalderstone.ca> scrawled the following:

>In article <[email protected]>, Max
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> "Dave Balderstone" <dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_Sbalderstone.ca> wrote
>>
>> > Locks are to keep your friends out. No lock is pick or bump proof.
>>
>> "Resistant"?
>
>30 seconds instead of 10?
>
>If someone wants in, they're coming in.

If not through a door, through a slider. If not a slider, a window. If
not a window, they get out their cordless chainsaw (or recip) and make
a door in under a minute. Or they just drive through a wall. I've
seen all of these methods used in the USA in the past few years.

The sliding glass door was shattered with a 30 pound rock in the
middle of the day, in broad daylight in a close neighborhood. None of
the retired neighbors (as close as 40' away) heard a thing. Amazing.

--
Losing faith in humanity, one person at a time.

On Sat, 1 May 2010 13:35:31 -0700, "Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Max wrote:
>> Um..... Am I being presumptuous to assume that you're about to tell
>> me how to overcome those other deficiencies?
>------------------
>Not at all, but locks keep honest people honest.

They also make insurance companies happy.

>Beyond that, they are about as useful as a set of breasts on a boar
>hog.
>
>If somebody wants in, they are coming in.
>
>If it takes them more than 5 minutes to rob you blind, they are
>probably going to get caught.

Yes, they tend to be cowards, also. If your neighbor's house is an easier
target, that's where they'll go. Make yours less attractive (to them) and
that's where good locks come in.

>Plan accordingly.

Right. Look at your neighborhood. If they all have bars on the windows,
move!

On Sat, 01 May 2010 09:13:52 -0700, the infamous Evodawg
<[email protected]> scrawled the following:

>Max wrote:
>
>> This is likely not the appropriate NG to be asking but I'm so impressed
>> with the knowledge here (G) that I thought I'd ask anyway.
>> I want to replace all the exterior door locksets and deadbolts.
>> I've read a few "reviews" on some but what say you all?
>> I don't want to spend a fortune but like most of my purchases, I'll spend
>> whatever it takes to assure reasonable security. ("bumpproof", pick
>> resistant, etc)
>> Any recommendations?
>>
>> Max
>Did a job a few months back where the owner did extensive research on Locks
>and windows. Most of the Alarm Companies said most of the burglaries
>occurred at the front door, specially double doors with window. Kick in the
>door or break the window. Second windows opened and only protected by a
>screen. The owner is an engineer and he himself developed a screen that has
>very small signal wires running through it. When the screen is removed or
>cut it breaks a very small current and triggers the alarm. His concern was
>at night when it was cool and he wanted to leave his windows opened, also
>didn't want the window to trigger alarm every time you opened and closed
>windows. Think he's in the process of patenting it.

I've seen double mag-sensored windows, where the window can be opened
to the second sensor. If disturbed when the alarm is set, the alarm
goes off.

--
Courage is the power to let go of the familiar.
-- Raymond Lindquist

>>>
>>> Having shot tens of thousands of rounds of .22 long riffle
>>> hollow
>>> point rounds, trust me, it would be no problem to sever the
>>> spinal
>>> column resulting in instaneous death with a single .22 LRHP
>>> round.
>>>
>>> Think of it as a baby dum dum.
>>>
>>> Lew
>>>
>>>
>>
>> You think the old lady was shooting LRHP rounds? Seems a might
>> far fetched.
>
> If you think that a .22 is nothing to be afraid of, then please
> shoot yourself in the head with one.
>

I don't know if they're commercially available now, but Remington
made SUBsonic 22LRHP rounds in the 90's at least. The snap of a
shot was greatly reduced. Of course, the energy level of the
bullet was also reduced, but for small game, squirrels in a bird
feeder or other critters/target practice, the rounds did just
fine. Even a pellet rifle can be lethal, given where the shot
hits and how long a time is allowed for a hit to become
incapacitating. Most squirrel shots I made with the cal .177
pellet rifle were instantly lethal and usually even exited the
skull. The trick was placing the shot well, not its lethality.

In home defense, there's a balancing act between a number of
factors. For instance, a cal .357 or .44 Mag round would have
tremendous hydraulic damage beyond the normal wound channel and
the result would be a lot of instant stopping power. However, the
round could also penetrate the door, walls or ceiling of a home
and take out a neighbor as well. Hollow points reduce this some,
but the best round would be the frangible bullets.

Another factor is how well you can aim and fire a big handgun.
Most people, regardless of their bravado flinch when pulling the
trigger. . . particularly inside. That flinch and make one heck
of a difference in the aim point.

Finally, a gun for self defense is like a camera. One time on a
cruise, we met a well known photographer who did a lot of wildlife
shots for National Geographic. I asked him what was his favorite
camera and he replied, "Any camera I have with me when I want a
camera." Guns are like that as well. Sure, a cal .454 loaded
with HP rounds would be the ideal pistol to stop some creep coming
in your window, but if you have it in the closet because it's too
big and heavy to have with you normally, then good luck. For most
burglars and home intruders, any shot, whether from a cal .22
derringer, little auto or a .32 would be a good deterrent, whether
just flashed, fired at the ceiling or at the intruder's center of
mass. It's enough to make him depart, which is the goal.


--
Nonny
On most days,
it's just not worth
the effort of chewing
through the restraints..