I ordered a Bosch jigsaw through Toolbarn about the first week of May
'06. On May12 Toolbarn deducted $140.85 from my credit card. Stephanie
of Toolbarn said it was out of their hands, up to Bosch to tell me when
it would be delivered. Michelle of Bosch said there were no availble
tools in the warehouse and no date when they were expected. I told
Stephanie to return my money and cancel the order 5/25... she replied
that she would, today is 6/8 and I still don't have my money. I
complained to Bosch a few days ago about tools not being available and
they said that the saw(only).. #52324B that I ordered was not always
available...
and >"I checked with our corporate offices and was informed that every
order that we had in >our system for the 52324B has been filled and
shipped. There is only one open order, which >was placed 2 days ago
that hasn't shipped yet. There was no order in the system for "Tool
>Barn" this year unless they bill thru another name. At this point, I would suggest that you >contact Tool Barn to find out what they did with the order. Please write back if you have any >other questions.
Toolbarn has posted a number of testimonials praising their site but
there is no forum to refute those testimonials.. This is the first site
where I have experienced the vendor taking posession of the money
before the product was at least shipped. In fact, many sites make it a
point to say they will not bill you until the product is delivered or
shipped?
A CNN article says Toolbarn is owned by Tighten Co of Omaha but I can
find a listing for them to complain, online or in the Omaha phone book.
I'll cancel the charge to my credit card.
> Toolbarn has posted a number of testimonials praising their site but
> there is no forum to refute those testimonials..
Have you filed a complaint with the Better Business Bureau? (bbb.org)
I sometimes check there before doing business with an internet company
I've never heard of...
Thanks for the warning - I'll avoid them.
Andy
BobS wrote:
> Now here's a graduate of the Lee Valley school of Customer Service........
>
> Bob S.
>
>
> "Matt Griffith" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:FPfig.90025$Ce1.26002@dukeread01...
>
> >
> > Paul,
> >
> > Hello, I am Matt Griffith the Director of Information Technology for
<snip>
I'm impressed...
But I still think a link between the manufacturer and TB would be nice
so that the CC didn't get billed until they shipped it.
Great response to a customer issue though.
-jtpr
Hi Matt,
Thanx for looking into what happened and giving your attention to what
ever fixes are necessary.
My account hasn't been credited yet but I don't consider that unusual
because there are often
delays of a few days in showing both payments and reimbursements. I
expect it will show on
Monday.
As for your defense of the practice of taking my money and depositing
it in your account before
the goods are at least on the way, that is not acceptable for me, If
someone else knows it
beforehand and agrees to it, that is between you and them. My
experience has been that
over and over vendors have made it a point to say that they don't
charge until.. I'm not
sure of the wording.... it's on the way, or signed for? It may vary
from company to company.
Anyhow, the point is that the companies consider that policy important
enough to emphasize it.
I've seen it enough to have generalized it in my mind as applying to
all companies... so this
is a wake up call for me.
I feel like I should offer a little more information to help explain
what happened here, why your
best plans went awry, in part. (awry? is that a word?)
I came to Toolbarn because you offered the best price (not always my
practice) on a
Bosch cordless jigsaw 52324B "tool only". That is, it comes without the
battery, which
was ok with me 'cause I have an extra battery that came with my drill.
This tool is advertized
in a number of places but when I enquired, they didn't have it. It
appears that no one
stocks it, they all depend on it to be available from Bosch when they
order it, just like
you did. It wasn't available according to Bosch, but Toolbarn pocketed
my money,
assuming that it would be delivered.. probably a safe assumption with
most tools but not
this particular one.
Anhow, I'll be interested to see what conclusions you reach about your
business practices and
how they are recieved by consumers.
thax for appearing here to answer questions.
Thanx tothe paritcipants here for their contributions, and for inviting
your participation.
Paul
Matt Griffith wrote:
> paol wrote:
> > I ordered a Bosch jigsaw through Toolbarn about the first week of May
> > '06. On May12 Toolbarn deducted $140.85 from my credit card. Stephanie
> > of Toolbarn said it was out of their hands, up to Bosch to tell me when
> > it would be delivered. Michelle of Bosch said there were no availble
> > tools in the warehouse and no date when they were expected. I told
> > Stephanie to return my money and cancel the order 5/25... she replied
> > that she would, today is 6/8 and I still don't have my money. I
> > complained to Bosch a few days ago about tools not being available and
> > they said that the saw(only).. #52324B that I ordered was not always
> > available...
> > and >"I checked with our corporate offices and was informed that every
> > order that we had in >our system for the 52324B has been filled and
> > shipped. There is only one open order, which >was placed 2 days ago
> > that hasn't shipped yet. There was no order in the system for "Tool
> >> Barn" this year unless they bill thru another name. At this point, I would suggest that you >contact Tool Barn to find out what they did with the order. Please write back if you have any >other questions.
> >
> > Toolbarn has posted a number of testimonials praising their site but
> > there is no forum to refute those testimonials.. This is the first site
> > where I have experienced the vendor taking posession of the money
> > before the product was at least shipped. In fact, many sites make it a
> > point to say they will not bill you until the product is delivered or
> > shipped?
> >
> > A CNN article says Toolbarn is owned by Tighten Co of Omaha but I can
> > find a listing for them to complain, online or in the Omaha phone book.
> >
> > I'll cancel the charge to my credit card.
> >
>
> Paul,
>
> Hello, I am Matt Griffith the Director of Information Technology for
> ToolBarn.com (and I have spent time in pretty much every aspect of the
> company in my 5+ years here). I'm here to address your concerns and
> answer any questions any of you have about us. We are a sister company
> of Tighton Fastener & Supply in Omaha, but are a separate corporation.
> We are a privately held corporation and are an Internet Retailer
> magazine Top 500 company.
>
> I have issued the refund, in full, today. I apologize for the delay,
> and, at this time, I have no reason for why it had not been done on the
> 31st of May, when I show the order was canceled. We have obviously made
> a number of mistakes on this order, which I will be addressing with the
> call center staff, their supervisors and our corporate officers. From
> the days I spent in the call center on the phones, managing it and now
> supporting it technologically, I can tell you this is nowhere near the
> experience we expect to deliver (and usually do) to our customers.
>
> We deal with Bosch several times a day. I am not going to give specifics
> on how we place orders with our vendors, for security reasons.
>
> We do ship a fair amount of product directly from manufacturers and we
> charge credit cards upon turning the order over to an outside entity.
> Any items that do not explicitly state in stock on our product page
> (ships in 3-5 days, for example) have the potential to be shipped by a
> vendor. We do this for a few reasons, the primary reason is that we try
> to offer a very broad selection of power tools and there are some which
> we just cannot afford to have sit in our warehouse until they sell.
> Bare tools, for the most part fall into this category.
>
> To the individual who mentioned that charging credit cards before
> shipment is illegal is incorrect. If the policy is not stated by the
> company, it is against Visa regulations (which are not laws, but
> regulations made by credit card companies). We state this policy in our
> FAQ / Support section, the URL to the specific page is
> http://www.toolbarn.com/cgi-bin/support.cgi/5#6 . This is a very common
> practice, and most people do not notice it due to the fact that
> generally most vendors ship products in a timely fashion.
>
> I'll be checking out rec.woodworking from time to time, as my other
> duties allow, so if you have any questions for me, please don't hesitate
> to ask. You can also email me at newsgroup(at sign)toolbarn(dot)com
> (just replace the parts in parenthesis, you all know the drill).
>
> Matt Griffith - Director of Information Technology
> www.ToolBarn.com
> www.ToolPartsDirect.com
In article <[email protected]>,
paol <[email protected]> wrote:
>I ordered a Bosch jigsaw through Toolbarn about the first week of May
>'06. On May12 Toolbarn deducted $140.85 from my credit card. Stephanie
>of Toolbarn said it was out of their hands, up to Bosch to tell me when
>it would be delivered. Michelle of Bosch said there were no availble
>tools in the warehouse and no date when they were expected. I told
>Stephanie to return my money and cancel the order 5/25... she replied
>that she would, today is 6/8 and I still don't have my money. I
>complained to Bosch a few days ago about tools not being available and
>they said that the saw(only).. #52324B that I ordered was not always
>available...
>and >"I checked with our corporate offices and was informed that every
>order that we had in >our system for the 52324B has been filled and
>shipped. There is only one open order, which >was placed 2 days ago
>that hasn't shipped yet. There was no order in the system for "Tool
>>Barn" this year unless they bill thru another name. At this point, I
>would suggest that you >contact Tool Barn to find out what they did with
>the order. Please write back if you have any >other questions.
>
>Toolbarn has posted a number of testimonials praising their site but
>there is no forum to refute those testimonials.. This is the first site
>where I have experienced the vendor taking posession of the money
>before the product was at least shipped. In fact, many sites make it a
>point to say they will not bill you until the product is delivered or
>shipped?
In the U.S., it is _illegal_ (federal law) to charge the card before
the item is shipped.
>
>A CNN article says Toolbarn is owned by Tighten Co of Omaha but I can
>find a listing for them to complain, online or in the Omaha phone book.
>
CNN got it wrong. it's "Tighton Fastener and Supply Corporation".
Gory details at:
<https://www.nebraska.gov/sos/corp/corpsearch.cgi?acct-number=1443074>
The proof of the relationship is that the corporate secretary
is the registered owner of the toolbarn.com domain-name.
>I'll cancel the charge to my credit card.
>
paol wrote:
> Hi Matt,
>
> Thanx for looking into what happened and giving your attention to what
> ever fixes are necessary.
...
> thax for appearing here to answer questions.
>
> Thanx tothe paritcipants here for their contributions, and for inviting
> your participation.
>
> Paul
Paul,
I appreciate the follow up, and do not hesitate to contact me if
anything else comes up. I also second your thanks to John Poole for
taking the time to let us know about the situation, so I could do what
was possible to remedy it.
Matt Griffith - Director of Information Technology
www.ToolBarn.com
www.ToolPartsDirect.com
Phisherman et al,
I am no longer in retail (but was for 20 years), but I would wonder how
long a company would stay in business if they did not check the customers
ability to complete the transaction before actually shipping the goods.
Perhaps the correct stance is "charge when available and ready for
shipment", but certainly not after it has shipped - thats just not right.
The initial post and concerns are valid, completely. The response is
good, albeit belated. A solution is available in the IT world, with packing
slip advices available for electronic transmission back to order placement
source, and vice versa for the payment approval and the release order. If
the source supplier (tool) does not have the facility for the Internet
ordering company - pressure should be brought to bear to bring them into the
1980's. (at least)....
Interfacing multiple IT solutions, stock and order management systems
has been around pre-internet, prolly pre-computers. The best result for the
end user, will create the most profitible company and product
pipeline..within reason.
Looks to me like there is too great a reliance on the Manufacturer to
follow up and ship - when that responsibility clearly lies with the company
taking the order (And the source money). Hopefully, even if it is a paper
trail only - the system is being improved. My main point before I commenced
waffling, is the pay after ship vs pay when ready...
Peace,
Mike
Brisbane Aus.
"Phisherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> That's why it is so important to use a credit card to protect your
> purchase. A company that charges your card before the item ships
> should not be in business. Thanks for the heads up.
>
"Matt Griffith" <[email protected]> wrote
>
> Hello, I am Matt Griffith the Director of Information Technology for
> ToolBarn.com
Damn, an internet guy who actually answers his phone.
Will wonders never cease?
paol wrote:
> I ordered a Bosch jigsaw through Toolbarn about the first week of May
> '06. On May12 Toolbarn deducted $140.85 from my credit card. Stephanie
> of Toolbarn said it was out of their hands, up to Bosch to tell me when
> it would be delivered. Michelle of Bosch said there were no availble
> tools in the warehouse and no date when they were expected. I told
> Stephanie to return my money and cancel the order 5/25... she replied
> that she would, today is 6/8 and I still don't have my money. I
> complained to Bosch a few days ago about tools not being available and
> they said that the saw(only).. #52324B that I ordered was not always
> available...
> and >"I checked with our corporate offices and was informed that every
> order that we had in >our system for the 52324B has been filled and
> shipped. There is only one open order, which >was placed 2 days ago
> that hasn't shipped yet. There was no order in the system for "Tool
>> Barn" this year unless they bill thru another name. At this point, I would suggest that you >contact Tool Barn to find out what they did with the order. Please write back if you have any >other questions.
>
> Toolbarn has posted a number of testimonials praising their site but
> there is no forum to refute those testimonials.. This is the first site
> where I have experienced the vendor taking posession of the money
> before the product was at least shipped. In fact, many sites make it a
> point to say they will not bill you until the product is delivered or
> shipped?
>
> A CNN article says Toolbarn is owned by Tighten Co of Omaha but I can
> find a listing for them to complain, online or in the Omaha phone book.
>
> I'll cancel the charge to my credit card.
>
Paul,
Hello, I am Matt Griffith the Director of Information Technology for
ToolBarn.com (and I have spent time in pretty much every aspect of the
company in my 5+ years here). I'm here to address your concerns and
answer any questions any of you have about us. We are a sister company
of Tighton Fastener & Supply in Omaha, but are a separate corporation.
We are a privately held corporation and are an Internet Retailer
magazine Top 500 company.
I have issued the refund, in full, today. I apologize for the delay,
and, at this time, I have no reason for why it had not been done on the
31st of May, when I show the order was canceled. We have obviously made
a number of mistakes on this order, which I will be addressing with the
call center staff, their supervisors and our corporate officers. From
the days I spent in the call center on the phones, managing it and now
supporting it technologically, I can tell you this is nowhere near the
experience we expect to deliver (and usually do) to our customers.
We deal with Bosch several times a day. I am not going to give specifics
on how we place orders with our vendors, for security reasons.
We do ship a fair amount of product directly from manufacturers and we
charge credit cards upon turning the order over to an outside entity.
Any items that do not explicitly state in stock on our product page
(ships in 3-5 days, for example) have the potential to be shipped by a
vendor. We do this for a few reasons, the primary reason is that we try
to offer a very broad selection of power tools and there are some which
we just cannot afford to have sit in our warehouse until they sell.
Bare tools, for the most part fall into this category.
To the individual who mentioned that charging credit cards before
shipment is illegal is incorrect. If the policy is not stated by the
company, it is against Visa regulations (which are not laws, but
regulations made by credit card companies). We state this policy in our
FAQ / Support section, the URL to the specific page is
http://www.toolbarn.com/cgi-bin/support.cgi/5#6 . This is a very common
practice, and most people do not notice it due to the fact that
generally most vendors ship products in a timely fashion.
I'll be checking out rec.woodworking from time to time, as my other
duties allow, so if you have any questions for me, please don't hesitate
to ask. You can also email me at newsgroup(at sign)toolbarn(dot)com
(just replace the parts in parenthesis, you all know the drill).
Matt Griffith - Director of Information Technology
www.ToolBarn.com
www.ToolPartsDirect.com
"paol" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> beforehand and agrees to it, that is between you and them. My
> experience has been that
> over and over vendors have made it a point to say that they don't
> charge until.. I'm not
> sure of the wording.... it's on the way, or signed for? It may vary
> from company to company.
Most say "when shipped" but you can be sure, that product did not leave the
building until the charges are made. If it was on the way, and the CC
bounced, the seller is out of luck.
As for Toolbarn, they do let you know their policy in the FAQ
http://www.toolbarn.com/cgi-bin/support.cgi/5
Reading your first post, I'd be cautious of ordering from them. Reading
Matt's reply, I'd feel confident ordering from them.
jtpr wrote:
> I'm impressed...
>
> But I still think a link between the manufacturer and TB would be nice
> so that the CC didn't get billed until they shipped it.
>
> Great response to a customer issue though.
>
> -jtpr
>
Hello,
We've been trying to come up with a better system since I have been
here. The issue is that almost without exception (Milwaukee Electric
Tool being the exception), few vendors are really willing to step up to
the plate and communicate with us on a daily basis on the status of all
open orders. We do our best to be pro-active, but unfortunately it is
difficult to run "mean and lean", provide courteous well-informed staff
for processing orders, helping people with existing and new orders, and
spend hours every day calling into to our 70+ vendors for open order
updates. That said, I think we owe it to ourselves and our customers to
strive to let them know the status of their orders before they think of
asking.
Thanks for reading my response, and if anyone has any suggestions, my
email address again is newsgroup (at sign) toolbarn (dot) com.
Matt Griffith - Director of Information Technology
www.ToolBarn.com
www.ToolPartsDirect.com
That's why it is so important to use a credit card to protect your
purchase. A company that charges your card before the item ships
should not be in business. Thanks for the heads up.
On 8 Jun 2006 20:18:41 -0700, "paol" <[email protected]> wrote:
>I ordered a Bosch jigsaw through Toolbarn about the first week of May
>'06. On May12 Toolbarn deducted $140.85 from my credit card. Stephanie
>of Toolbarn said it was out of their hands, up to Bosch to tell me when
>it would be delivered. Michelle of Bosch said there were no availble
<snip>
>I'll cancel the charge to my credit card.
Phisherman,
And btw - absolutely agree with use credit card to pay. The one time I
was definately ripped off (via the old Fido-net days), was using a credit
card - one call to the bank, they snatched the money back, until I was able
to verify supply - which never subsequently happened - but I was not out of
pocket.
Cheers
Mike
Brisbane Aus
"Phisherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> That's why it is so important to use a credit card to protect your
> purchase. A company that charges your card before the item ships
> should not be in business. Thanks for the heads up.
paol wrote:
> I ordered a Bosch jigsaw through Toolbarn about the first week of May
> '06. On May12 Toolbarn deducted $140.85 from my credit card. Stephanie
> of Toolbarn said it was out of their hands, up to Bosch to tell me when
> it would be delivered. Michelle of Bosch said there were no availble
> tools in the warehouse and no date when they were expected. I told
> Stephanie to return my money and cancel the order 5/25... she replied
> that she would, today is 6/8 and I still don't have my money. I
> complained to Bosch a few days ago about tools not being available and
> they said that the saw(only).. #52324B that I ordered was not always
> available...
> and >"I checked with our corporate offices and was informed that every
> order that we had in >our system for the 52324B has been filled and
> shipped. There is only one open order, which >was placed 2 days ago
> that hasn't shipped yet. There was no order in the system for "Tool
>> Barn" this year unless they bill thru another name. At this point, I would suggest that you >contact Tool Barn to find out what they did with the order. Please write back if you have any >other questions.
>
> Toolbarn has posted a number of testimonials praising their site but
> there is no forum to refute those testimonials.. This is the first site
> where I have experienced the vendor taking posession of the money
> before the product was at least shipped. In fact, many sites make it a
> point to say they will not bill you until the product is delivered or
> shipped?
>
> A CNN article says Toolbarn is owned by Tighten Co of Omaha but I can
> find a listing for them to complain, online or in the Omaha phone book.
>
> I'll cancel the charge to my credit card.
>
Intrigued by the accusation above, I visited toolbarn.com and left the
following message for them:
vvvvvvvvvvv
There is a posting on the newsgroup rec.woodworking which brings into
question your business practices. I think you should be aware of this
posting and encourage you to respond therein, especially in regard to
the accusation that you charge a credit card without shipping the
merchandise.
John Poole
^^^^^^^^^^^
Now here's a graduate of the Lee Valley school of Customer Service........
Bob S.
"Matt Griffith" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:FPfig.90025$Ce1.26002@dukeread01...
>
> Paul,
>
> Hello, I am Matt Griffith the Director of Information Technology for
> ToolBarn.com (and I have spent time in pretty much every aspect of the
> company in my 5+ years here). I'm here to address your concerns and
> answer any questions any of you have about us. We are a sister company of
> Tighton Fastener & Supply in Omaha, but are a separate corporation. We are
> a privately held corporation and are an Internet Retailer magazine Top 500
> company.
>
> I have issued the refund, in full, today. I apologize for the delay, and,
> at this time, I have no reason for why it had not been done on the 31st of
> May, when I show the order was canceled. We have obviously made a number
> of mistakes on this order, which I will be addressing with the call center
> staff, their supervisors and our corporate officers. From the days I
> spent in the call center on the phones, managing it and now supporting it
> technologically, I can tell you this is nowhere near the experience we
> expect to deliver (and usually do) to our customers.
>
> We deal with Bosch several times a day. I am not going to give specifics
> on how we place orders with our vendors, for security reasons.
>
> We do ship a fair amount of product directly from manufacturers and we
> charge credit cards upon turning the order over to an outside entity. Any
> items that do not explicitly state in stock on our product page (ships in
> 3-5 days, for example) have the potential to be shipped by a vendor. We
> do this for a few reasons, the primary reason is that we try to offer a
> very broad selection of power tools and there are some which we just
> cannot afford to have sit in our warehouse until they sell. Bare tools,
> for the most part fall into this category.
>
> To the individual who mentioned that charging credit cards before shipment
> is illegal is incorrect. If the policy is not stated by the company, it
> is against Visa regulations (which are not laws, but regulations made by
> credit card companies). We state this policy in our FAQ / Support
> section, the URL to the specific page is
> http://www.toolbarn.com/cgi-bin/support.cgi/5#6 . This is a very common
> practice, and most people do not notice it due to the fact that generally
> most vendors ship products in a timely fashion.
>
> I'll be checking out rec.woodworking from time to time, as my other duties
> allow, so if you have any questions for me, please don't hesitate to ask.
> You can also email me at newsgroup(at sign)toolbarn(dot)com (just replace
> the parts in parenthesis, you all know the drill).
>
> Matt Griffith - Director of Information Technology
> www.ToolBarn.com
> www.ToolPartsDirect.com