A Home Of Tolerance

"Dr. Deb" wrote:

====================================
> Okay, even though I usually let trolls sleep under the bridge, one
question
> for you. As a woman, if you really are one, what do you get out of
> Islam?
> The men get paradise, 72 virgins and all the rest of what 7th
> Century
> Bedouin culture thought was really wonderful. Women on the other
> hand get
> nothing in paradise and a really short end of the stick here.
===============================

Over the years had had the pleasure of some extended conversations
with women of Middle Eastern extraction.

By and large I get the feeling that beasts of burden are held in
higher esteem by Middle Eastern men than they hold their women.

Could be totally wrong, but my gut tells me otherwise.

Lew

On Nov 30, 6:26=A0pm, Stuart <[email protected]> wrote:
> In article
> <243a1448-19a9-4bd9-8070-0441b1be1...@g27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>,
> =A0 =A0Mary <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Media speculation since the horrific terrorist attacks on America has
> > pointed the finger at Muslims and the Arab world, and that has meant
> > ordinary citizens of the US and other Western countries becoming easy
> > prey for anti-faith hooligans. Shame. Sadly, the latest horror to hit
> > the US looks to have been caused by people of Middle Eastern origin,
> > bearing Muslim names. Again, shame. This fuels more hatred for a
> > religion and a people who have nothing to do with these events.
>
> Quite probably and the answer is for all good Muslims the world over to
> actively seek out all those who preach hatred, all those who would commit
> acts of terror and murder, and deal with them according to Sharia law
> before they bring Islam further into disrepute in the eyes of the world.
>
> However, I don't see it happening do you?

Talk to people in the burbs around Paris, Amsterdam and London and ask
them about tolerance.
Even the Swiss finally exclaimed: "Just vait a fooking minaret!!"

On Nov 29, 10:30=A0pm, Mary <[email protected]> wrote:
> A Home Of Tolerance
>
> Media speculation since the horrific terrorist attacks on America has
> pointed the finger at Muslims and the Arab world, and that has meant
> ordinary citizens of the US and other Western countries becoming easy
> prey for anti-faith hooligans. Shame. Sadly, the latest horror to hit
> the US looks to have been caused by people of Middle Eastern origin,
> bearing Muslim names. Again, shame. This fuels more hatred for a
> religion and a people who have nothing to do with these events. This
> is why I want to explain some basic facts about this noble way we call
> Islam, before, God forbid, another disaster occurs - next time
> probably aimed at Muslims.
>
> I came to Islam in my late 20s, during my searching period as a
> wandering pop star. I found a religion that blended scientific reason
> with spiritual reality in a unifying faith far removed from the
> headlines of violence, destruction and terrorism. One of the first
> interesting things I learned in the Koran was that the name of the
> faith comes from the word salam - peace. Far from the kind of Turko-
> Arab-centric message I expected, the Koran presented a belief in the
> universal existence of God, one God for all. It does not discriminate
> against peoples; it says we may be different colors and from different
> tribes, but we are all human and "the best of people are the most God-
> conscious".
>
> Today, as a Muslim, I have been shattered by the horror of recent
> events; the display of death and indiscriminate killing we've all
> witnessed has dented humanity's confidence in itself. Terror on this
> scale affects everybody on this small planet, and no one is free from
> the fallout. Yet we should remember that such violence is almost an
> everyday occurrence in some Muslim lands: it should not be exacerbated
> by revenge attacks on more innocent families and communities.
>
> Along with most Muslims, I feel it a duty to make clear that such
> orchestrated acts of incomprehensible carnage have nothing to do with
> the beliefs of most Muslims. The Koran specifically declares: "If
> anyone murders an (innocent) person, it will be as if he has murdered
> the whole of humanity. And if anyone saves a person it will be as if
> he has saved the whole of humanity."
>
> The Koran that our young people learn is full of stories and lessons
> from the history of humanity as a whole. The Gospels and the Torah are
> referred to; Jesus and Abraham are mentioned. In fact there is more
> mention in the Koran of the prophet Moses than of any other. It
> acknowledges the coexistence of other faiths, and in doing so
> acknowledges that other cultures can live together in peace.
>
> "There is no compulsion in religion," it states, meaning that people
> should not be compelled to change their faith. Elsewhere it states,
> "To you, your religion; to me mine." Respect for religious values and
> justice is at the Koran's core. The Koranic history we teach our young
> provides ample examples of inter-religious and international
> relationships; of how to live together. But some extremists take
> elements of the sacred ******ures out of con****. They act as
> individuals, and when they can't come together as part of a political
> structure or consultative process, you find these dissident factions
> creating their own rules, contrary to the spirit of the Koran - which
> demands that those recognized as being in charge of Muslims must
> consult together regarding society's affairs.
>
> There is a whole chapter in the Koran entitled Consultation. Communal
> well being is central to human life, so there is a concept in Islam
> called Istihsan, which means "to look for the common good". Even
> though the Koran may lay down a diktat, scholars are also supposed to
> consider the circumstances prevalent at the time. Sometimes that means
> choosing the lesser of two evils or even suspending legislation if
> necessary: for instance, a person who steals bread during a famine is
> not treated as a thief.
>
> Once I wrote in a song, "Where do the children play?" Our sympathy and
> thoughts go out to the families of all those who lost their lives in
> this tragic act of violence, as well as all those injured. But life
> must go on. Children still need to play, and people need to live and
> learn more about their neighbors so that ignorance doesn't breed more
> blind fanaticism. Moderation is part of faith, so those who accuse
> Muslim schools of fostering fanaticism should learn a bit more about
> Islam.
>
> The Prophet (peace be upon him) said, "Ruined are those who insist on
> hardship in faith," and, "A believer remains within the scope of his
> religion as long as he doesn't kill another person illegally." Such
> knowledge and words of guidance are desperately needed at this time,
> to separate fact from falsehood, and to recognise the Last Prophet's
> own definition of that which makes a person representative, or
> otherwise, of the faith he lived and the one we try to teach.
> by Yusuf Islam (formerly the singer Cat Stevens)
>
> Published on Monday, September 24, 2001 by Al-Hewar Magazine.

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/int/long.html

On Mon, 30 Nov 2009 19:08:19 -0600, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:

>Lew Hodgett wrote:
>> "Dr. Deb" wrote:
>>
>> ====================================
>> > Okay, even though I usually let trolls sleep under the bridge, one
>> question
>>> for you. As a woman, if you really are one, what do you get out of
>>> Islam?
>>> The men get paradise, 72 virgins and all the rest of what 7th
>>> Century
>>> Bedouin culture thought was really wonderful. Women on the other
>>> hand get
>>> nothing in paradise and a really short end of the stick here.
>> ===============================
>>
>> Over the years had had the pleasure of some extended conversations
>> with women of Middle Eastern extraction.
>>
>> By and large I get the feeling that beasts of burden are held in
>> higher esteem by Middle Eastern men than they hold their women.
>>
>> Could be totally wrong, but my gut tells me otherwise.
>
>Read "Seven Pillars of Wisdom" ... apparently they'd rather stick it to
>each other.


You heard about the Irishman and the Arab who were arguing about their
cultures contributions to the world?

After going on for some time the Arab finally comes up with what he
considers to be the topper, "Arabs invented Sex."

The Irishman pulled on his chin for a moment before saying, "I'll
grant you that - but it was the Irish that introduced it to women."





Regards,

Tom Watson
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/

Lew Hodgett wrote:
> "Dr. Deb" wrote:
>
> ====================================
> > Okay, even though I usually let trolls sleep under the bridge, one
> question
>> for you. As a woman, if you really are one, what do you get out of
>> Islam?
>> The men get paradise, 72 virgins and all the rest of what 7th
>> Century
>> Bedouin culture thought was really wonderful. Women on the other
>> hand get
>> nothing in paradise and a really short end of the stick here.
> ===============================
>
> Over the years had had the pleasure of some extended conversations
> with women of Middle Eastern extraction.
>
> By and large I get the feeling that beasts of burden are held in
> higher esteem by Middle Eastern men than they hold their women.
>
> Could be totally wrong, but my gut tells me otherwise.

Read "Seven Pillars of Wisdom" ... apparently they'd rather stick it to
each other.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

In article
<243a1448-19a9-4bd9-8070-0441b1be1497@g27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>,
Mary <[email protected]> wrote:

> Media speculation since the horrific terrorist attacks on America has
> pointed the finger at Muslims and the Arab world, and that has meant
> ordinary citizens of the US and other Western countries becoming easy
> prey for anti-faith hooligans. Shame. Sadly, the latest horror to hit
> the US looks to have been caused by people of Middle Eastern origin,
> bearing Muslim names. Again, shame. This fuels more hatred for a
> religion and a people who have nothing to do with these events.

Quite probably and the answer is for all good Muslims the world over to
actively seek out all those who preach hatred, all those who would commit
acts of terror and murder, and deal with them according to Sharia law
before they bring Islam further into disrepute in the eyes of the world.

However, I don't see it happening do you?

Stuart wrote:
>
> Quite probably and the answer is for all good Muslims the world over
> to actively seek out all those who preach hatred, all those who would
> commit acts of terror and murder, and deal with them according to
> Sharia law before they bring Islam further into disrepute in the eyes
> of the world.
>
> However, I don't see it happening do you?

I had an idea that might bring peer-pressure to bear. A web site called
stoptheterror.com could be created. Here's how it would work:

First there would be a shot of a warehouse full of Wahabi Korans and a list
of "fines."

* For a minor transgression, such as calling a non-Muslim a "pig" or "dog,"
one page of a Koran would be desecrated by tearing it from the book and
stepping on it.
* For physical abuse of a non-Muslim, an entire Sura would be desecrated by
ripping it from the book and flushing it down a toilet. One Sura for each
offense.
* For a death of a non-Muslim, an entire Koran would be steeped in pig
excrement and buried with swine offal.

A video of each punishment would be posted along with the facts leading up
to the judgement.

In article <[email protected]>,
"Dr. Deb" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Okay, even though I usually let trolls sleep under the bridge, one question
> for you. As a woman, if you really are one, what do you get out of Islam?
> The men get paradise, 72 virgins and all the rest of what 7th Century
> Bedouin culture thought was really wonderful. Women on the other hand get
> nothing in paradise and a really short end of the stick here. So, what do
> YOU get out of it? If it is only the "touchy feely" kind of "roll your
> own" New Age kind of stuff, I have sad news for you - that is not Islam.
>
>
> Deb

This fellow will tell us all about tolerance:

http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/islamic%20rage%20boy.jpg

Okay, even though I usually let trolls sleep under the bridge, one question
for you. As a woman, if you really are one, what do you get out of Islam?
The men get paradise, 72 virgins and all the rest of what 7th Century
Bedouin culture thought was really wonderful. Women on the other hand get
nothing in paradise and a really short end of the stick here. So, what do
YOU get out of it? If it is only the "touchy feely" kind of "roll your
own" New Age kind of stuff, I have sad news for you - that is not Islam.


Deb


Mary wrote:

>
>
>
> A Home Of Tolerance
>
>
> Media speculation since the horrific terrorist attacks on America has
> pointed the finger at Muslims and the Arab world, and that has meant
> ordinary citizens of the US and other Western countries becoming easy
> prey for anti-faith hooligans. Shame. Sadly, the latest horror to hit
> the US looks to have been caused by people of Middle Eastern origin,
> bearing Muslim names. Again, shame. This fuels more hatred for a
> religion and a people who have nothing to do with these events. This
> is why I want to explain some basic facts about this noble way we call
> Islam, before, God forbid, another disaster occurs - next time
> probably aimed at Muslims.
>
> I came to Islam in my late 20s, during my searching period as a
> wandering pop star. I found a religion that blended scientific reason
> with spiritual reality in a unifying faith far removed from the
> headlines of violence, destruction and terrorism. One of the first
> interesting things I learned in the Koran was that the name of the
> faith comes from the word salam - peace. Far from the kind of Turko-
> Arab-centric message I expected, the Koran presented a belief in the
> universal existence of God, one God for all. It does not discriminate
> against peoples; it says we may be different colors and from different
> tribes, but we are all human and "the best of people are the most God-
> conscious".
>
> Today, as a Muslim, I have been shattered by the horror of recent
> events; the display of death and indiscriminate killing we've all
> witnessed has dented humanity's confidence in itself. Terror on this
> scale affects everybody on this small planet, and no one is free from
> the fallout. Yet we should remember that such violence is almost an
> everyday occurrence in some Muslim lands: it should not be exacerbated
> by revenge attacks on more innocent families and communities.
>
> Along with most Muslims, I feel it a duty to make clear that such
> orchestrated acts of incomprehensible carnage have nothing to do with
> the beliefs of most Muslims. The Koran specifically declares: "If
> anyone murders an (innocent) person, it will be as if he has murdered
> the whole of humanity. And if anyone saves a person it will be as if
> he has saved the whole of humanity."
>
> The Koran that our young people learn is full of stories and lessons
> from the history of humanity as a whole. The Gospels and the Torah are
> referred to; Jesus and Abraham are mentioned. In fact there is more
> mention in the Koran of the prophet Moses than of any other. It
> acknowledges the coexistence of other faiths, and in doing so
> acknowledges that other cultures can live together in peace.
>
> "There is no compulsion in religion," it states, meaning that people
> should not be compelled to change their faith. Elsewhere it states,
> "To you, your religion; to me mine." Respect for religious values and
> justice is at the Koran's core. The Koranic history we teach our young
> provides ample examples of inter-religious and international
> relationships; of how to live together. But some extremists take
> elements of the sacred ******ures out of con****. They act as
> individuals, and when they can't come together as part of a political
> structure or consultative process, you find these dissident factions
> creating their own rules, contrary to the spirit of the Koran - which
> demands that those recognized as being in charge of Muslims must
> consult together regarding society's affairs.
>
> There is a whole chapter in the Koran entitled Consultation. Communal
> well being is central to human life, so there is a concept in Islam
> called Istihsan, which means "to look for the common good". Even
> though the Koran may lay down a diktat, scholars are also supposed to
> consider the circumstances prevalent at the time. Sometimes that means
> choosing the lesser of two evils or even suspending legislation if
> necessary: for instance, a person who steals bread during a famine is
> not treated as a thief.
>
> Once I wrote in a song, "Where do the children play?" Our sympathy and
> thoughts go out to the families of all those who lost their lives in
> this tragic act of violence, as well as all those injured. But life
> must go on. Children still need to play, and people need to live and
> learn more about their neighbors so that ignorance doesn't breed more
> blind fanaticism. Moderation is part of faith, so those who accuse
> Muslim schools of fostering fanaticism should learn a bit more about
> Islam.
>
> The Prophet (peace be upon him) said, "Ruined are those who insist on
> hardship in faith," and, "A believer remains within the scope of his
> religion as long as he doesn't kill another person illegally." Such
> knowledge and words of guidance are desperately needed at this time,
> to separate fact from falsehood, and to recognise the Last Prophet's
> own definition of that which makes a person representative, or
> otherwise, of the faith he lived and the one we try to teach.
> by Yusuf Islam (formerly the singer Cat Stevens)
>
> Published on Monday, September 24, 2001 by Al-Hewar Magazine.

Mary wrote:
> A Home Of Tolerance
>
>
> Media speculation since the horrific terrorist attacks on America has
> pointed the finger at Muslims and the Arab world, and that has meant
> ordinary citizens of the US and other Western countries becoming easy
> prey for anti-faith hooligans. Shame. Sadly, the latest horror to hit
> the US looks to have been caused by people of Middle Eastern origin,
> bearing Muslim names. Again, shame. This fuels more hatred for a
> religion and a people who have nothing to do with these events. This
> is why I want to explain some basic facts about this noble way we call
> Islam, before, God forbid, another disaster occurs - next time
> probably aimed at Muslims.

Why do you say "probably aimed at Muslims?"

Since the early '90s there has been one or more terrorist acts against the
United States or U.S. interests abroad perpetrated by Muslims (the 1st WTC
bombing, the USS Cole, the bombings of American embassies or kidnapping of
our diplomats), capped by the destruction of the WTC towers and the attack
on the Pentagon. There WAS a hiatus during the Bush years after the 9-11
attacks, but there has not been any attack by the U.S. against Islam,
Islamic institutions, or Muslim civilians.

We don't do that sort of thing.

Mary wrote:

> A Home Of Tolerance


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plyS8sIUjmQ