I have a 4-year old son who goes to day care 3-days a week. He likes to
watch Dora the Explorer which for those of you that don't know, teaches kids
a few Spanish words. I use to object to him watching it, but now I don't
have the energy to keep changing it when he watches it. Now he comes home
from pre-school and they are teaching him the days of the week in English
and in Spanish. What the f---???
Why do 'they' feel it is important to teach my 4-year old son Spanish words
when he can barely speak English?? Is Spanish going to be on the SAT or
LSAT or MCAT ???
This is getting really ridiculous.
:) At least here in Canada we have an OFFICIAL second language. Actually,
the town I live in here in redneck Alberta has our stop (and many street)
signs in French and English, and all our schools are bi-lingual. There's
old farts around here who don't speak any English (only French) and in the
video store the other day (renting for my wife, not me. Promise!), there
was a young couple just having a normal conversation in French. Still takes
me by surprise after being here for 2 years.
Clint
"Stoutman" <.@.> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I have a 4-year old son who goes to day care 3-days a week. He likes to
>watch Dora the Explorer which for those of you that don't know, teaches
>kids a few Spanish words. I use to object to him watching it, but now I
>don't have the energy to keep changing it when he watches it. Now he
>comes home from pre-school and they are teaching him the days of the week
>in English and in Spanish. What the f---???
>
> Why do 'they' feel it is important to teach my 4-year old son Spanish
> words when he can barely speak English?? Is Spanish going to be on the
> SAT or LSAT or MCAT ???
>
> This is getting really ridiculous.
>
Tue, Oct 3, 2006, 1:51am (EDT+4) [email protected] (Clint) doth
sayeth:
<snip> there was a young couple just having a normal conversation in
French. Still takes me by surprise after being here for 2 years.
No reason to be surprised, I've heard the same, in French, Dutch,
Swedish, and I'm not sure what all, in my local post office. And I live
just outside a small town in North Carolina.
JOAT
It's not hard, if you get your mind right.
- Granny Weatherwax
in 1319172 20061004 034237 "Stoutman" <.@.> wrote:
>> He and his child were not given a choice. In the states we've been
>> hearing a lot about bilingualism for many years. And I can't stand it.
>> Why? Because bilingualism is semi-officially English/Spanish. It's
>> ubiquitous: ATMs, on-line banking, phone help lines, ad nauseum give us
>> the
>> choice of English or Spanish. NotGerman, Swedish, Russian, etc. Why only
>> Spanish?
>
>I am also intrigued by this. Why Spanish? I am also disgusted by the
>English/Spanish choice at the ATM and grocery store U-Scan.
>
>The Dora the Explorer show really pisses me off. When I was a kid (I'm 35)
>we were never exposed to a foreign language at that age. Maybe very
>infrequently on Sesame Street. The Explorer show he watches teaches Spanish
>every other phrase. Why is there such a big push to force feed Spanish to
>American children?? So they can communicate with Jose down the street who
>can't speak English?? Why shouldn't Jose learn English instead of our kids
>Spanish? Now he is getting force fed Spanish in preschool! Why not
>Yiddish? Oy Vey!
>
>My biggest fear is that he might get words mixed up and start speaking
>Spanglish!
I once sat next to a French woman with two small girls on a London to Paris train
(they were waved off by an English guy, presumably Dad) and the two girls spoke
the most amazing mixture of French and English to each other, swapping back and forth even
during sentences. But when Mum spoke to them in French they answered in French.
I think they have no problem knowing which is which.
"Stoutman" <.@.> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>> He and his child were not given a choice. In the states we've been
>> hearing a lot about bilingualism for many years. And I can't stand it.
>> Why? Because bilingualism is semi-officially English/Spanish. It's
>> ubiquitous: ATMs, on-line banking, phone help lines, ad nauseum give us
>> the
>> choice of English or Spanish. NotGerman, Swedish, Russian, etc. Why
>> only
>> Spanish?
>
> I am also intrigued by this. Why Spanish? I am also disgusted by the
> English/Spanish choice at the ATM and grocery store U-Scan.
>
> The Dora the Explorer show really pisses me off. When I was a kid (I'm
> 35) we were never exposed to a foreign language at that age. Maybe very
> infrequently on Sesame Street. The Explorer show he watches teaches
> Spanish every other phrase. Why is there such a big push to force feed
> Spanish to American children?? So they can communicate with Jose down the
> street who can't speak English?? Why shouldn't Jose learn English instead
> of our kids Spanish? Now he is getting force fed Spanish in preschool!
> Why not Yiddish? Oy Vey!
>
> My biggest fear is that he might get words mixed up and start speaking
> Spanglish!
>
Again, right on brother!!! Total agreement!!!!
>
>
On Fri, 06 Oct 2006 00:53:25 -0500, [email protected] () wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>,
>Mark & Juanita <[email protected]> wrote:
><...snipped...>
>>
>>....................................... For example, at a higher level
>>than even Fortran or C, how long do you think it would take to program the
>>following in assembly code?
>>
>>fid = fopen(filename, 'r');
>>y = fread(fid);
>>fclose(fid);
>>
>>x = length(y);
>>
>>figure(1);
>>plot(x, y, '-xr');
>>title('Data Plot');
>>xlabel('Data Point Number');
>>ylabel('Data');
><...snipped...>
>
>Does calling the same functions from assembler code count? :)
>(and what's with the single quotes?)
I think the fair rule is that you only get to use the commands that are
intrinsic in the language being used. :-)
Single quotes are Matlab's string delimiters.
Same thing in C or C++ would have required developing the plot functions,
and a significant number of "for" loops.
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Stoutman wrote:
> I have a 4-year old son who goes to day care 3-days a week. He likes to
> watch Dora the Explorer which for those of you that don't know, teaches kids
> a few Spanish words. I use to object to him watching it, but now I don't
> have the energy to keep changing it when he watches it. Now he comes home
> from pre-school and they are teaching him the days of the week in English
> and in Spanish. What the f---???
>
> Why do 'they' feel it is important to teach my 4-year old son Spanish words
> when he can barely speak English?? Is Spanish going to be on the SAT or
> LSAT or MCAT ???
>
> This is getting really ridiculous.
>
>
You are right.
Children at that age can easily absorb two languages. It's good brain
fodder, too. It'll be okay. Tom
Stoutman wrote:
> I have a 4-year old son who goes to day care 3-days a week. He likes to
> watch Dora the Explorer which for those of you that don't know, teaches kids
> a few Spanish words. I use to object to him watching it, but now I don't
> have the energy to keep changing it when he watches it. Now he comes home
> from pre-school and they are teaching him the days of the week in English
> and in Spanish. What the f---???
>
> Why do 'they' feel it is important to teach my 4-year old son Spanish words
> when he can barely speak English?? Is Spanish going to be on the SAT or
> LSAT or MCAT ???
>
> This is getting really ridiculous.
I assume you speak and write some sort of English at home, eh? He'll
learn from you his primary language. Maybe like Yoda will he even talk!
Tom
Stoutman wrote:
> > I feel sorry for you.
> >
> > You obviously don't understand the value of being bilingual.
> >
> > Lew
>
> I totally see the value in being bilingual! I wish I spoke 10 languages,
> that would be awesome.
>
> You are missing my point. He is FOUR. Shouldn't he learn English first?
>
> Instead of teaching him two new Spanish words per day, I would rather 'they'
> teach ONE new English word!!
> >You are missing my point. He is FOUR. Shouldn't he learn English first?
> >
> >Instead of teaching him two new Spanish words per day, I would rather 'they'
> >teach ONE new English word!!
He is learning more english than you are aware of. As you say there is
nothing but good about being bilingual.
All this reminds me of a friend who teaches kindergarten. 20 all day
long in her class. The usual mix is at least 10 who speak only one
language and it is not english or spanish. One year there were 14 who
spoke only one language and it was not english or spanish. After 6
weeks with lots of recess time they all spoke english as well as any
kindergartener. And se impressed the parents to keep up the other
languages.
Bob AZ
Stoutman wrote:
> > I feel sorry for you.
> >
> > You obviously don't understand the value of being bilingual.
> >
> > Lew
>
> I totally see the value in being bilingual! I wish I spoke 10 languages,
> that would be awesome.
>
> You are missing my point. He is FOUR. Shouldn't he learn English first?
>
> Instead of teaching him two new Spanish words per day, I would rather 'they'
> teach ONE new English word!!
You ask, "Shouldn't he learn English first?"
Do you think that learning a little Spanish interferes with learning
English?
I don't think so, but certainly don't see any reason why you shouldn't
look into it.
I am pretty sure that it has been well-established that the older a
person is when they begin to learn a second language the less
well they learn it. Functional MRIs show a neurological basis
for this.
Learning languages sequentially is a poor way to learn them.
I've been learnign English for half a century and am still learning
now.
There is a learning disability that is associated with changing
one's primary language at a certain age. But that depends on
abandoning one and picking up another, not on being bilingual,
so that is not somethign to worry about here. My ex was
diagnosed with that when she switched back to English from
Vietnamese, but it didn't last.
I suspect he is learning English faster than he is Spanish. Does
he speak English as well as or better than other four year olds?
Heck, this is an opportunity for you to learn Spanish. I bet
he'd get a blast from teaching you. That's the way a lot of
immigrants learned English, they sent their kids to school
and had their kids teach them when they got home.
There are countries, like Switzerland, that have multiple official
languages. AFAIK, their people are not any less articulate than
Americans.
What is really good here, is knowing that you care and are
involved in his education. Good for you/
--
FF
Stoutman wrote:
> Why do 'they' feel it is important to teach my 4-year old son Spanish words
> when he can barely speak English??
Because at that age he'll learn Spanish without even realising it.
Leave it to 10 for starting another language and most kids will never
manage it.
If you think Spanish is a bad choice, then that's one thing. But IMHO,
_all_ kids should be exposed to a second language around this age -
it's what four year olds are programmed for.
T'was ever thus... as it will reflect the surrounding cultures. Getting
involved in your children's education and institutions may be your best
bet to "remedy" this affront. Tom
Stoutman wrote:
> > He and his child were not given a choice. In the states we've been
> > hearing a lot about bilingualism for many years. And I can't stand it.
> > Why? Because bilingualism is semi-officially English/Spanish. It's
> > ubiquitous: ATMs, on-line banking, phone help lines, ad nauseum give us
> > the
> > choice of English or Spanish. NotGerman, Swedish, Russian, etc. Why only
> > Spanish?
>
> I am also intrigued by this. Why Spanish? I am also disgusted by the
> English/Spanish choice at the ATM and grocery store U-Scan.
>
> The Dora the Explorer show really pisses me off. When I was a kid (I'm 35)
> we were never exposed to a foreign language at that age. Maybe very
> infrequently on Sesame Street. The Explorer show he watches teaches Spanish
> every other phrase. Why is there such a big push to force feed Spanish to
> American children?? So they can communicate with Jose down the street who
> can't speak English?? Why shouldn't Jose learn English instead of our kids
> Spanish? Now he is getting force fed Spanish in preschool! Why not
> Yiddish? Oy Vey!
>
> My biggest fear is that he might get words mixed up and start speaking
> Spanglish!
B A R R Y wrote:
> Mortimer Schnerd, RN wrote:
> > And languages... they are easiest to learn at a very early age. Being bilingual
> > is a very good thing in today's world.
>
> Outside the US, it's very common to see young kids switch back and forth
> from language to language. My wife is a 2nd grade teacher, and she has
> students who translate for Polish, Czech, Russian, Pakistani, Indian,
> and Asian immigrant parents.
>
> Only native Americans seem to have a problem with multiple languages.
That is because we have ZERO need to learn other languages. How about
all the immigrants from Europe -- they adapted. Our strength is our
COMMON language.
And when you go almost anywhere outside the USA, what is the common
language?
ENGLISH!
I'm off my soapbox -- gonna try to go find some newsgroup that
discusses woodworking!
Stoutman wrote:
>...
>
> I am also intrigued by this. Why Spanish? I am also disgusted by the
> English/Spanish choice at the ATM and grocery store U-Scan.
>
> The Dora the Explorer show really pisses me off. When I was a kid (I'm 35)
> we were never exposed to a foreign language at that age. Maybe very
> infrequently on Sesame Street. The Explorer show he watches teaches Spanish
> every other phrase. Why is there such a big push to force feed Spanish to
> American children?? So they can communicate with Jose down the street who
> can't speak English?? Why shouldn't Jose learn English instead of our kids
> Spanish?
I don't understand how teaching your kid Spanish keeps Jose
from learning English.
> Now he is getting force fed Spanish in preschool! Why not
> Yiddish? Oy Vey!
Well, then he could curse really well.
>
> My biggest fear is that he might get words mixed up and start speaking
> Spanglish!
Does that happen?
--
FF
B A R R Y wrote:
> ..
>
> Outside the US, it's very common to see young kids switch back and forth
> from language to language. My wife is a 2nd grade teacher, and she has
> students who translate for Polish, Czech, Russian, Pakistani, Indian,
> and Asian immigrant parents.
>
What language is being translated into English so the Indian parents
can understand?
--
FF
Glen wrote:
> Peter Lynch wrote:
> > On Tue, 03 Oct 2006 03:25:07 GMT, Stoutman wrote:
> >
> >>>I feel sorry for you.
> >>>
> >>>You obviously don't understand the value of being bilingual.
> >>>
> >>>Lew
> >>
> >>I totally see the value in being bilingual! I wish I spoke 10 languages,
> >>that would be awesome.
> >>
> >>You are missing my point. He is FOUR. Shouldn't he learn English first?
> >>
> >>Instead of teaching him two new Spanish words per day, I would rather 'they'
> >>teach ONE new English word!!
> >
> >
> > I do agree with youthat teaching him spanish is probably not a good idea.
> > They should be teaching him chinese, that way he'll be able to get a job
> > when he grows up.
> >
> > Pete
> >
> Yeah, but this way he will be able to talk to his employees if he has
> his own business and his maid and gardener as well.
>
Almost on-topic for this newsgroup is a comment made to me by the
foreman supervising remodeling of our office just outside of the DC
beltway. "You have to speak Spanish to workin construction around
here."
My personal observation is that Jamaican patois would be useful
for anyone in the local tree service business.
--
FF
"Watchout below for the fukkinshitlimbmon!"
B A R R Y wrote:
> Doug Miller wrote:
>
> >
> > Not quite... India used to be a British colony, remember? They still teach
> > English in the schools there. The two official languages of India are Hindi
> > and English. I've met a fair number of [Asian] Indians in the workplace and in
> > college; all of them speak excellent English, and all of them learned to speak
> > it in India -- in fact, it's the first language for some of them.
>
>
> So, you work with cab drivers and Indian restaurant prep cooks? One of
> the guys stocks the coolers and shelves at his friend's large liquor
> store. These folks are NOT IT people, call center managers, doctors,
> etc... or for that matter, college educated.
>
> My wife teaches in an inner city school. While English certainly _is_
> the official second language in India, these folks aren't very good with
> it. Therefore, the kids would translate my wife to Hindi, or whatever
> language they speak at home.
>
> Often, the largest concern these folks have is that their kids are
> learning proper English.
>
UseNet being international it ocurred ot me that your wife might
not be teaching in the US. In fact, you still didn't say in which
county that inner city is located--might have been Hamburg.
--
FF
dadiOH wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
> > Stoutman wrote:
> >> My biggest fear is that he might get words mixed up and start
> >> speaking Spanglish!
> >
> > Does that happen?
>
> Sorta. I've messed with Spanish since my university days - 50 years -
> and retired to Mexico for a while (now in <ugh> Florida thanks to
> wife). I sometimes can't think of the word I want in one language but
> the other language equivalent comes to mind instead.
One wonders if that effect is exaggerated by learning the language
at a late age. My guess is yes, for the same reason it is harder
for peopel to use grammatical consturcts they learned at a later
age. After 12 or so, the way the brain learns language changes,
using much more of the brain than the parts used for languages
learned earlier.
--
FF
Max wrote:
> "Doug Miller" wrote
>
> > Just like I never said that all Indians I've met speak perfect English, or
> > that Indians who don't speak perfect English don't exist.
>
> > Regards,
> > Doug Miller
>
> I've met very few Americans who speak perfect English.
>
As a multilingual person explained to me, "It is easy to
learn to speak English, it is difficult to learn to speak English
good."
--
FF
Stoutman wrote:
> > I don't understand how teaching your kid Spanish keeps Jose
> > from learning English.
>
> Do you think Jose would learn English more quickly if he was spoken to in
> Spanish or English? When I was a graduate student, I worked in a lab with
> students from several different countries. The foreigners were forbidden
> from speaking their native language to each other while in the lab in order
> to build their English speaking skills. Much like the foreigners in my lab,
> I think Jose would learn English faster if he was 'forced' to learn English.
> There would be more motivation for Jose if my son couldn't speak Spanish.
> Comprende?
I'm not sure I do.
Are you saying that teaching American born children foreign languages
interferes with foreign born children learning English?
> ...
> >> My biggest fear is that he might get words mixed up and start speaking
> >> Spanglish!
> >
> > Does that happen?
>
> I'm not sure, yo think it is possible. :)
>
I expect it has been studied.
You can probably get an intelligent discussion of the issues over
in misc.kids or sci.lang.
Much as I appreciate it that you value my opinion, if you don't post
there, should I not conclude that you really are not interested in
having
an intelligent discussion with knowledgible people?
--
FF
GeeDubb wrote:
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > GeeDubb wrote:
> >>
> >> ...
> >>
> >> good points right up to the last paragraph. In Arizona it does cost us
> >> since everything government and school is printed in both spanish and
> >> english (with the exception of street signs). ...
> >
> ...
> >
>
> Probably but we'd be speaking Navajo and Apache........and possibly a few
> other native american dialects.
I'm sure there are some there who still do.
--
FF
Tue, Oct 3, 2006, 12:36am (EDT+4): .@. (Stoutman)
<snip> Why do 'they' feel it is important to teach my 4-year old son
Spanish words when he can barely speak English?? <snip>
It has been proven that it is much easier to learn a second
language early. Knowing a second language makes learning additional
languages much easier. Knowing a second language, or more, could come
in handy to the kid. Never hurts to learn new things.
I learned German (passable enough to understand, and tell, dirty
jokes) in my mid-late 20s. I was in Germany at the time and it came in
handy numerous times. What helped me most was my female friend at the
time hung out in her mother's little bar, frequented mostly by people
who only spoke German. It was either learn or be left out - still took
some work on my part tho. Would have been even handier if I'd known
French, for when I was in France, and later Vietnam. Would be handy
today to know more Spanish today than just taco and burrito.
JOAT
It's not hard, if you get your mind right.
- Granny Weatherwax
In article <[email protected]>, B A R R Y <[email protected]> wrote:
>Doug Miller wrote:
>>
>> Same place I wrote the attitude you attributed to me...
>>
>
>"I've met a fair number of [Asian] Indians in the workplace and in
>college; all of them speak excellent English, and all of them learned to
>speak
>it in India -- in fact, it's the first language for some of them."
>
>All of Indians that you've met speak perfect English.
I didn't say that. "Perfect" is your word, not mine. See above for what I
actually wrote about the ones that I know. You quoted it, but you didn't
appear to have actually bothered to read it.
And where, exactly, did I say that I thought that meant that they all do?
>
>I don't disagree with that. I never said that all Indians my wife has
>met don't speak English.
Just like I never said that all Indians I've met speak perfect English, or
that Indians who don't speak perfect English don't exist.
Like I said... same place where I wrote the attitude that you attributed to
me.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.
Stoutman (in [email protected]) said:
| Why do 'they' feel it is important to teach my 4-year old son
| Spanish words when he can barely speak English?? Is Spanish going
| to be on the SAT or LSAT or MCAT ???
Nope - but it may be needed to obtain a guest worker pass...
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto
>
>Why do 'they' feel it is important to teach my 4-year old son Spanish words
>when he can barely speak English?? Is Spanish going to be on the SAT or
>LSAT or MCAT ???
>
>This is getting really ridiculous.
>
>
My wife taught my 3 yr old to speak flawless french all the while that
I and the rest of the tribe spoke english. At 4 yrs old she was my
'tutor' when I broke down and finally took french classes.
My 4 yr old grandson also watches 'Dora the Explora' and we do
spanish together and he corrects me.
Don't be afraid of a language taught to a preschooler. They can only
benefit from the exposure. I wish I knew that 45 yrs ago.
Pete
Morris Dovey (in [email protected]) said:
| Stoutman (in [email protected]) said:
|
|| Why do 'they' feel it is important to teach my 4-year old son
|| Spanish words when he can barely speak English?? Is Spanish going
|| to be on the SAT or LSAT or MCAT ???
|
| Nope - but it may be needed to obtain a guest worker pass...
Sorry - that was a smartass response.
I've had some some experience indicating that people who learn to
think in multiple languages gain some degree of advantage in solving
problems - perhaps something to do with being able to bring different
different cultural perspectives or though processes to bear. Whether
it's ever tested or not, I would thing that maximizing the ability to
communicate would be a plus for anyone.
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto
"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Stoutman" wrote:
>
> > I have a 4-year old son who goes to day care 3-days a week. He
> likes to
> > watch Dora the Explorer which for those of you that don't know,
> teaches
> > kids a few Spanish words. I use to object to him watching it, but
> now I
> > don't have the energy to keep changing it when he watches it. Now he
> > comes home from pre-school and they are teaching him the days of
> the week
> > in English and in Spanish. What the f---???
> >
> > Why do 'they' feel it is important to teach my 4-year old son Spanish
> > words when he can barely speak English?? Is Spanish going to be on
> the
> > SAT or LSAT or MCAT ???
> >
> > This is getting really ridiculous.
>
> I feel sorry for you.
>
> You obviously don't understand the value of being bilingual.
>
> Lew
then give the kid a choice of what language they want to learn.
Comprende?
Gary
"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
*snip*
>
> Further, it's an odd thing about languages--different languages
> express things differently--something that one can say in a few words
> in one may take several paragraphs in another--knowing two gives you
> an alternative way of looking at things which can sometimes help with
> problem solving.
>
*snip*
I'd like to point out that this is also true of machine programming
languages. Something expressable in 3 Lines Of Code in one language may
take 30 or 50 in another.
Puckdropper
--
Wise is the man who attempts to answer his question before asking it.
To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm
"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Stoutman" <.@.> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>> He and his child were not given a choice. In the states we've been
>>> hearing a lot about bilingualism for many years. And I can't stand it.
>>> Why? Because bilingualism is semi-officially English/Spanish. It's
>>> ubiquitous: ATMs, on-line banking, phone help lines, ad nauseum give us
>>> the
>>> choice of English or Spanish. NotGerman, Swedish, Russian, etc. Why
>>> only
>>> Spanish?
>>
>> I am also intrigued by this. Why Spanish? I am also disgusted by the
>> English/Spanish choice at the ATM and grocery store U-Scan.
>>
>> The Dora the Explorer show really pisses me off. When I was a kid (I'm
>> 35) we were never exposed to a foreign language at that age. Maybe very
>> infrequently on Sesame Street. The Explorer show he watches teaches
>> Spanish every other phrase. Why is there such a big push to force feed
>> Spanish to American children?? So they can communicate with Jose down
>> the street who can't speak English?? Why shouldn't Jose learn English
>> instead of our kids Spanish? Now he is getting force fed Spanish in
>> preschool! Why not Yiddish? Oy Vey!
>>
>> My biggest fear is that he might get words mixed up and start speaking
>> Spanglish!
>
> Statistically 82 percent of Americans speak English at home, 10 percent
> speak Spanish, and the next most common is Chinese (all dialects) with
> less than 1 percent. That being the case, if one is going to encounter a
> person who doesn't speak English in the US the most likely language to
> encounter is Spanish. You'd rather they teach Hungarian, which is spoken
> by only 0.045 percent of Americans?
>
> I just don't understand your hostility to Spanish--if one speaks English
> and Spanish one can make oneself understood anywhere in North and South
> America except Brazil, where they speak Portuguese. Why is that a bad
> thing?
>
> As for a choice at the ATM, why does that anger you? For what it's
> worth the local ATMs support something like 8 different languages, one of
> which is Spanish.
>
> If this was costing you something I would understand your ire, but it is
> not and there just plain is not any downside that I can see.
>
good points right up to the last paragraph. In Arizona it does cost us
since everything government and school is printed in both spanish and
english (with the exception of street signs). My kids school has more
mandarin chineese kids than hispanic kids so why doesn't the school supply
mandarin documentation as well? Answer, the chineese take the initiative to
learn to speak english......
Gary
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> GeeDubb wrote:
>>
>> ...
>>
>> good points right up to the last paragraph. In Arizona it does cost us
>> since everything government and school is printed in both spanish and
>> english (with the exception of street signs). ...
>
> So it would be cheaper if Arizona had never switched to English, right?
>
> --
>
> FF
>
Probably but we'd be speaking Navajo and Apache........and possibly a few
other native american dialects.
gw
"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "GeeDubb" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>> "Stoutman" <.@.> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>> He and his child were not given a choice. In the states we've been
>>>>> hearing a lot about bilingualism for many years. And I can't stand
>>>>> it.
>>>>> Why? Because bilingualism is semi-officially English/Spanish. It's
>>>>> ubiquitous: ATMs, on-line banking, phone help lines, ad nauseum give
>>>>> us the
>>>>> choice of English or Spanish. NotGerman, Swedish, Russian, etc. Why
>>>>> only
>>>>> Spanish?
>>>>
>>>> I am also intrigued by this. Why Spanish? I am also disgusted by the
>>>> English/Spanish choice at the ATM and grocery store U-Scan.
>>>>
>>>> The Dora the Explorer show really pisses me off. When I was a kid (I'm
>>>> 35) we were never exposed to a foreign language at that age. Maybe
>>>> very infrequently on Sesame Street. The Explorer show he watches
>>>> teaches Spanish every other phrase. Why is there such a big push to
>>>> force feed Spanish to American children?? So they can communicate with
>>>> Jose down the street who can't speak English?? Why shouldn't Jose
>>>> learn English instead of our kids Spanish? Now he is getting force fed
>>>> Spanish in preschool! Why not Yiddish? Oy Vey!
>>>>
>>>> My biggest fear is that he might get words mixed up and start speaking
>>>> Spanglish!
>>>
>>> Statistically 82 percent of Americans speak English at home, 10 percent
>>> speak Spanish, and the next most common is Chinese (all dialects) with
>>> less than 1 percent. That being the case, if one is going to encounter
>>> a person who doesn't speak English in the US the most likely language to
>>> encounter is Spanish. You'd rather they teach Hungarian, which is
>>> spoken by only 0.045 percent of Americans?
>>>
>>> I just don't understand your hostility to Spanish--if one speaks English
>>> and Spanish one can make oneself understood anywhere in North and South
>>> America except Brazil, where they speak Portuguese. Why is that a bad
>>> thing?
>>>
>>> As for a choice at the ATM, why does that anger you? For what it's
>>> worth the local ATMs support something like 8 different languages, one
>>> of which is Spanish.
>>>
>>> If this was costing you something I would understand your ire, but it is
>>> not and there just plain is not any downside that I can see.
>>>
>> good points right up to the last paragraph. In Arizona it does cost us
>> since everything government and school is printed in both spanish and
>> english (with the exception of street signs). My kids school has more
>> mandarin chineese kids than hispanic kids so why doesn't the school
>> supply mandarin documentation as well? Answer, the chineese take the
>> initiative to learn to speak english......
>
> I was addressing my comments to Stoutman, who is distressed by "Dora the
> Explorer", the day school his kid attends, and automatic teller machines,
> not about documents printed by the government.
>
Apolgies, sometimes it's difficult to separate everything. What you pointed
out does not add cost.
Gary
Mark & Juanita (in [email protected]) said:
| My first assignment out of college was writing TI-9900 Assembly
| code for embedded test equipment control. My last contribution to
| that assignment was the hardware and software design for a specific
| test box; so I do understand the speed efficiency and the ability
| to do device control quickly. However, after becoming an analyst
| and systems engineer, I have decided that speed of execution for
| many applications is way low in importance relative to speed of
| coding. For example, at a higher level than even Fortran or C, how
| long do you think it would take to program the following in
| assembly code?
|
| fid = fopen(filename, 'r');
| y = fread(fid);
| fclose(fid);
|
| x = length(y);
|
| figure(1);
| plot(x, y, '-xr');
| title('Data Plot');
| xlabel('Data Point Number');
| ylabel('Data');
|
| After doing that, I decided I really don't like writing "for"
| loops
Hmm. Two minutes? I'm assuming that the functions invoked have already
been programmed - if not, then add an hour.
Just by accident, I happened to have these on-line:
http://www.iedu.com/mrd/c/plot_pkg.c
and
http://www.iedu.com/mrd/c/PCHR.ASM
The first will plot your graph on an Epson FX-80 (the title and label
functions are in another file, not on-line), and the second is for a
CP/M putchar-like function. fopen(), fread(), and fclose() are
similarly quick and easy. <g>
You didn't specify what figure() does, so I didn't include it in the
estimate.
Optimizing compilers have pretty much eliminated the assembly language
performance advantage...
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto
Stoutman (in [email protected]) said:
| Dios Mio!
|
| Talk about an off-topic thread going off-topic! :)
Sometimes these things just SNOBOL out of control <vbg>
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto
Peter Lynch wrote:
> On Tue, 03 Oct 2006 03:25:07 GMT, Stoutman wrote:
>
>>>I feel sorry for you.
>>>
>>>You obviously don't understand the value of being bilingual.
>>>
>>>Lew
>>
>>I totally see the value in being bilingual! I wish I spoke 10 languages,
>>that would be awesome.
>>
>>You are missing my point. He is FOUR. Shouldn't he learn English first?
>>
>>Instead of teaching him two new Spanish words per day, I would rather 'they'
>>teach ONE new English word!!
>
>
> I do agree with youthat teaching him spanish is probably not a good idea.
> They should be teaching him chinese, that way he'll be able to get a job
> when he grows up.
>
> Pete
>
Yeah, but this way he will be able to talk to his employees if he has
his own business and his maid and gardener as well.
Glen
[email protected] wrote:
>
> What language is being translated into English so the Indian parents
> can understand?
>
Now that's funny! <G>
Wrong Indians...
Stoutman wrote:
> Why do 'they' feel it is important to teach my 4-year old son Spanish words
> when he can barely speak English?? Is Spanish going to be on the SAT or
> LSAT or MCAT ???
No, but it may be the language used at the grocery store. I know it is at mine.
I only wish I'd paid more attention to Spanish when I took it in school. No
motivation to learn it then... now I realize my mistake.
You need to chill. They're doing your child a service. And don't worry that he
can only absorb one language. Using that thinking,
you'd need to pull him out of mathematics later because it might interfere with
his learning to read. Your kid's brain is like a sponge.... pack as much stuff
in there as he can absorb.
And languages... they are easiest to learn at a very early age. Being bilingual
is a very good thing in today's world.
--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
Mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com
Tue, Oct 3, 2006, 8:52am [email protected]
(Mortimer=A0Schnerd,=A0RN) doth sayeth:
<snip> Being bilingual is a very good thing in today's world.
I've heard that if you know four languages, English, Spanish,
French, and Chinese, you can make yourself understood anywhere in the
world. Don't know how accurate that is, but it does make me wish I knew
all four.
Just remembered, the first time I was in Germany, one of the French
NCOs (NATO assignment) was dating a German girl, and their common
language was English.
JOAT
It's not hard, if you get your mind right.
- Granny Weatherwax
LRR wrote:
> B A R R Y wrote:
>
>> Only native Americans seem to have a problem with multiple languages.
>
> That is because we have ZERO need to learn other languages. How about
> all the immigrants from Europe -- they adapted. Our strength is our
> COMMON language.
I agree. Leave the US, and you'll see why it's helpful to know more
than one language, and you'll also see how easy it is when you start young.
> And when you go almost anywhere outside the USA, what is the common
> language?
>
> ENGLISH!
Try that away from tourist areas and air traffic control, and let me
know how it works out. I've found English to be very useful in some
multi-language areas, like Switzerland. However, in not-so-urban parts
of Italy, Spain, France, etc... You'll be better off with something
else. In some less-friendly areas, you'll get better service as an
American who speaks French or Spanish, than an American who speaks only
English.
There is also the issue of understanding. Have you ever been in a crowd
where you have no idea what anyone is saying? Knowing and speaking a
second language creates a totally different feeling in those situations,
and removes a bunch of stress, even if it's not the language the others
are speaking. I know this from experience in both conditions.
My bottom line is that being bi or multi-lingual can NEVER be detrimental.
> I'm off my soapbox -- gonna try to go find some newsgroup that
> discusses woodworking!
So why did you respond to a thread clearly marked off-topic?
Bob Martin wrote:
> in 1319439 20061005 050831 Mark & Juanita <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>>> ¡Que viva assembler! :)
>>
>> He said 30 or 50, not 300 or 500. ;-)
>
> In my 360 days I could solve a problem faster in assembler than
> could a colleague in PL/1. And the resulting program ran 10 times
> faster.
Ditto. *Much* tighter code too (therefore, faster). Not to mention
device control...
--
dadiOH
____________________________
dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
"Stoutman" <.@.> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I have a 4-year old son who goes to day care 3-days a week. He likes to
>watch Dora the Explorer which for those of you that don't know, teaches
>kids a few Spanish words. I use to object to him watching it, but now I
>don't have the energy to keep changing it when he watches it. Now he
>comes home from pre-school and they are teaching him the days of the week
>in English and in Spanish. What the f---???
>
> Why do 'they' feel it is important to teach my 4-year old son Spanish
> words when he can barely speak English?? Is Spanish going to be on the
> SAT or LSAT or MCAT ???
>
> This is getting really ridiculous.
>
Ultimately it will be an asset as when he has his Mexican gardener do
something different the gardener will not be able to fall back on the old
stand by, I no speakey English, to get out of doing as instructed.
Also at this age he will retain more of what he learns than later on.
In article <[email protected]>,
Morris Dovey <[email protected]> wrote:
>Stoutman (in [email protected]) said:
>
>| Dios Mio!
>|
>| Talk about an off-topic thread going off-topic! :)
>
>Sometimes these things just SNOBOL out of control <vbg>
Yeah, forget the smalltalk and get back to woodworking!
--
No dumb questions, just dumb answers.
Larry Wasserman - Baltimore, Maryland - [email protected]
Mortimer Schnerd, RN wrote:
> And languages... they are easiest to learn at a very early age. Being bilingual
> is a very good thing in today's world.
Outside the US, it's very common to see young kids switch back and forth
from language to language. My wife is a 2nd grade teacher, and she has
students who translate for Polish, Czech, Russian, Pakistani, Indian,
and Asian immigrant parents.
Only native Americans seem to have a problem with multiple languages.
In article <njsVg.7351$If3.3370@trnddc07>, dadiOH <[email protected]> wrote:
>[email protected] wrote:
>> In article <[email protected]>,
>> Morris Dovey <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> Stoutman (in [email protected]) said:
>>>
>>>> Dios Mio!
>>>>
>>>> Talk about an off-topic thread going off-topic! :)
>>>
>>> Sometimes these things just SNOBOL out of control <vbg>
>>
>> Yeah, forget the smalltalk and get back to woodworking!
>
>Assembly isn't part of woodworking? :)
>
>--
I suppose it is. We should compile a list.
--
No dumb questions, just dumb answers.
Larry Wasserman - Baltimore, Maryland - [email protected]
In article <[email protected]>, B A R R Y <[email protected]> wrote:
>Doug Miller wrote:
>
>>
>> Not quite... India used to be a British colony, remember? They still teach
>> English in the schools there. The two official languages of India are Hindi
>> and English. I've met a fair number of [Asian] Indians in the workplace and
> in
>> college; all of them speak excellent English, and all of them learned to
> speak
>> it in India -- in fact, it's the first language for some of them.
>
>
>So, you work with cab drivers and Indian restaurant prep cooks?
No: programmers and systems analysts. But I don't have any trouble
communicating with Indian cab drivers and the staff in Indian restaurants,
either. My wife and I are both fond of Indian food, and we eat in Indian
restaurants frequently, so college-educated professionals are not the only
Indians I come in contact with.
>One of
>the guys stocks the coolers and shelves at his friend's large liquor
>store. These folks are NOT IT people, call center managers, doctors,
>etc... or for that matter, college educated.
And your point is... ? (Other than highlighting your personal prejudices, I
mean.)
>My wife teaches in an inner city school. While English certainly _is_
>the official second language in India, these folks aren't very good with
>it. Therefore, the kids would translate my wife to Hindi, or whatever
>language they speak at home.
>
>Often, the largest concern these folks have is that their kids are
>learning proper English.
>
>But hey, if you haven't seen it yourself, it can't be true... <G>
I can apply the same comment to you, too -- you don't seem to have encountered
any Indians who speak proper English, and as far as you're concerned there
can't be any.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.
"native American"?
B A R R Y" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Mortimer Schnerd, RN wrote:
>> And languages... they are easiest to learn at a very early age. Being
>> bilingual is a very good thing in today's world.
>
> Outside the US, it's very common to see young kids switch back and forth
> from language to language. My wife is a 2nd grade teacher, and she has
> students who translate for Polish, Czech, Russian, Pakistani, Indian, and
> Asian immigrant parents.
>
> Only native Americans seem to have a problem with multiple languages.
In article <[email protected]>, Stoutman <.@.> wrote:
>> I feel sorry for you.
>>
>> You obviously don't understand the value of being bilingual.
>>
>> Lew
>
>I totally see the value in being bilingual! I wish I spoke 10 languages,
>that would be awesome.
>
>You are missing my point. He is FOUR. Shouldn't he learn English first?
>
>Instead of teaching him two new Spanish words per day, I would rather 'they'
>teach ONE new English word!!
>
>
>
Actually there have been many many studies that show that teaching a
second language is most effectively done when started at the
pre-school age, without detriment or delay in learning the primary
language. Personal observations of bilingual people in my own family
(unfortunately I'm not one of them) certainly bear that out.
--
No dumb questions, just dumb answers.
Larry Wasserman - Baltimore, Maryland - [email protected]
"Stoutman" <.@.> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I have a 4-year old son who goes to day care 3-days a week. He likes to
>watch Dora the Explorer which for those of you that don't know, teaches
>kids a few Spanish words. I use to object to him watching it, but now I
>don't have the energy to keep changing it when he watches it. Now he
>comes home from pre-school and they are teaching him the days of the week
>in English and in Spanish. What the f---???
>
> Why do 'they' feel it is important to teach my 4-year old son Spanish
> words when he can barely speak English?? Is Spanish going to be on the
> SAT or LSAT or MCAT ???
>
> This is getting really ridiculous.
Not really. Having a second language can only benefit him later in life. I
have been studying Spanish for years (I have 40+ Spanish speaking employees
and I travel to Mexico frequently) and really regret not paying more
attention in Spanish class.
Remember, one say the Junior Beer man may run a large company that employs
Spanish speaking employees. After all, what can it hurt?
Dave
[email protected] wrote:
> Stoutman wrote:
>> My biggest fear is that he might get words mixed up and start
>> speaking Spanglish!
>
> Does that happen?
Sorta. I've messed with Spanish since my university days - 50 years -
and retired to Mexico for a while (now in <ugh> Florida thanks to
wife). I sometimes can't think of the word I want in one language but
the other language equivalent comes to mind instead.
The most frequent problem though is in spelling, especially of
cognates - words in both languages that have the same meaning and
similar but different spellings. For example, "attention" in English,
"atencion" in Spanish. Generally no problem with the tion/cion but I
sometimes forget the second "t" in English.
By and large it is no problem and the benefits of a second language
greatly override any occasional minor problems.
--
dadiOH
____________________________
dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
Doug Miller wrote:
>
> Not quite... India used to be a British colony, remember? They still teach
> English in the schools there. The two official languages of India are Hindi
> and English.
Sorry I misquoted you in other posts. You got me interested in the
subject enough to learn more... <G>
I went and looked it up and found some stuff that actually surprised me.
According to:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_India>
about 150 million of India's population of 1.1 billion speak English.
"James \"Cubby\" Culbertson" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
>
> "Stoutman" <.@.> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>I have a 4-year old son who goes to day care 3-days a week. He likes
>>to watch Dora the Explorer which for those of you that don't know,
>>teaches kids a few Spanish words. I use to object to him watching it,
>>but now I don't have the energy to keep changing it when he watches
>>it. Now he comes home from pre-school and they are teaching him the
>>days of the week in English and in Spanish. What the f---???
>>
>> Why do 'they' feel it is important to teach my 4-year old son Spanish
>> words when he can barely speak English?? Is Spanish going to be on
>> the SAT or LSAT or MCAT ???
>>
>> This is getting really ridiculous.
>>
>
> As far as I can tell Spanish is the official language of the USA these
> days. I have trouble finding the damned directions for things in
> English! Cheers,
> cc
>
>
>
That is why all of the court documents are written in Spanish as well as
the Bills that pass through Congress. All newspapers and magazines are
in Spanish as are all of the programs on evey single cable channel.
"Stoutman" <.@.> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> I have a 4-year old son who goes to day care 3-days a week. He likes
> to watch Dora the Explorer which for those of you that don't know,
> teaches kids a few Spanish words. I use to object to him watching it,
> but now I don't have the energy to keep changing it when he watches
> it. Now he comes home from pre-school and they are teaching him the
> days of the week in English and in Spanish. What the f---???
>
> Why do 'they' feel it is important to teach my 4-year old son Spanish
> words when he can barely speak English?? Is Spanish going to be on
> the SAT or LSAT or MCAT ???
>
> This is getting really ridiculous.
>
>
When one knows more than one language, it opens more doors than if you
only know english. If he does learn spanish fluently, then other
langages will be easier to learn as well.
NOW is the time to teach him a second or third language. It will never
be easier for him.
Would you object if he was learning Dutch, German, or Pidgin?
"Stoutman" <.@.> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I have a 4-year old son who goes to day care 3-days a week. He likes to
>watch Dora the Explorer which for those of you that don't know, teaches
>kids a few Spanish words. I use to object to him watching it, but now I
>don't have the energy to keep changing it when he watches it. Now he
>comes home from pre-school and they are teaching him the days of the week
>in English and in Spanish. What the f---???
>
> Why do 'they' feel it is important to teach my 4-year old son Spanish
> words when he can barely speak English?? Is Spanish going to be on the
> SAT or LSAT or MCAT ???
>
> This is getting really ridiculous.
>
As far as I can tell Spanish is the official language of the USA these days.
I have trouble finding the damned directions for things in English!
Cheers,
cc
> I don't understand how teaching your kid Spanish keeps Jose
> from learning English.
Do you think Jose would learn English more quickly if he was spoken to in
Spanish or English? When I was a graduate student, I worked in a lab with
students from several different countries. The foreigners were forbidden
from speaking their native language to each other while in the lab in order
to build their English speaking skills. Much like the foreigners in my lab,
I think Jose would learn English faster if he was 'forced' to learn English.
There would be more motivation for Jose if my son couldn't speak Spanish.
Comprende?
>
>> Now he is getting force fed Spanish in preschool! Why not
>> Yiddish? Oy Vey!
>
> Well, then he could curse really well.
>
>>
>> My biggest fear is that he might get words mixed up and start speaking
>> Spanglish!
>
> Does that happen?
I'm not sure, yo think it is possible. :)
>
> --
>
> FF
>
"Doug Miller" wrote
> Just like I never said that all Indians I've met speak perfect English, or
> that Indians who don't speak perfect English don't exist.
> Regards,
> Doug Miller
I've met very few Americans who speak perfect English.
Max
"Press 1 for English"
"Press 2 to hang up and call back when you can understand English"
Stoutman wrote:
>> I feel sorry for you.
>>
>> You obviously don't understand the value of being bilingual.
>>
>> Lew
>
> I totally see the value in being bilingual! I wish I spoke 10
> languages, that would be awesome.
>
> You are missing my point. He is FOUR. Shouldn't he learn English
> first?
>
> Instead of teaching him two new Spanish words per day, I would
> rather 'they' teach ONE new English word!!
He'll learn English without anyone teaching him words. Not so with
Spanish.
Que el aprenda bien.
--
dadiOH
____________________________
dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
On Thu, 05 Oct 2006 07:34:32 GMT, Bob Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
>in 1319439 20061005 050831 Mark & Juanita <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>>¡Que viva assembler! :)
>>
>>He said 30 or 50, not 300 or 500. ;-)
>
>In my 360 days I could solve a problem faster in assembler than could a colleague in PL/1.
>And the resulting program ran 10 times faster.
My first assignment out of college was writing TI-9900 Assembly code for
embedded test equipment control. My last contribution to that assignment
was the hardware and software design for a specific test box; so I do
understand the speed efficiency and the ability to do device control
quickly. However, after becoming an analyst and systems engineer, I have
decided that speed of execution for many applications is way low in
importance relative to speed of coding. For example, at a higher level
than even Fortran or C, how long do you think it would take to program the
following in assembly code?
fid = fopen(filename, 'r');
y = fread(fid);
fclose(fid);
x = length(y);
figure(1);
plot(x, y, '-xr');
title('Data Plot');
xlabel('Data Point Number');
ylabel('Data');
After doing that, I decided I really don't like writing "for" loops
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
in 1319439 20061005 050831 Mark & Juanita <[email protected]> wrote:
>>¡Que viva assembler! :)
>
>He said 30 or 50, not 300 or 500. ;-)
In my 360 days I could solve a problem faster in assembler than could a colleague in PL/1.
And the resulting program ran 10 times faster.
dadiOH wrote:
>
> Really? Look in the yellow pages under "Physicians".
>
Absolutely!
I had an Indian doctor as a child, my favorite beer store is owned by
two Indians, and I deal with several Indian programmers. They all speak
excellent English and are very educated.
I'll say it again... Many of the Indian kids my wife has had in class
have parents who speak perfect English. Others have parents who barely
speak English.
Puckdropper wrote:
> I'd like to point out that this is also true of machine programming
> languages. Something expressable in 3 Lines Of Code in one
> language may take 30 or 50 in another.
¡Que viva assembler! :)
--
dadiOH
____________________________
dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
"LRR" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> That is because we have ZERO need to learn other languages. How about
> all the immigrants from Europe -- they adapted. Our strength is our
> COMMON language.
>
> And when you go almost anywhere outside the USA, what is the common
> language?
>
> ENGLISH!
You should learn to speak Chinese. That way, you will be able to talk to
your boss in twenty years or so.
"Stoutman" <.@.> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I have a 4-year old son who goes to day care 3-days a week. He likes to
>watch Dora the Explorer which for those of you that don't know, teaches
>kids a few Spanish words. I use to object to him watching it, but now I
>don't have the energy to keep changing it when he watches it. Now he
>comes home from pre-school and they are teaching him the days of the week
>in English and in Spanish. What the f---???
>
> Why do 'they' feel it is important to teach my 4-year old son Spanish
> words when he can barely speak English?? Is Spanish going to be on the
> SAT or LSAT or MCAT ???
>
> This is getting really ridiculous.
To my way of thinking it's nothing to get upset about. Knowing two
languages does nobody any harm, children learn multiple languages far more
easily than adults, and adults who know two languages generally have a lot
less trouble with learning another than do those who only know one, so if he
starts out with English and Spanish, later if he wants to learn Japanese or
Russian or Aramaic or whatever he'll have a leg up.
In many localities the Catholic schools, which nobody has ever accused of
being bastions of political correctness, start a second language in second
or third grade--in Louisiana and Canada it's French, don't know what they do
elsewhere.
Further, it's an odd thing about languages--different languages express
things differently--something that one can say in a few words in one may
take several paragraphs in another--knowing two gives you an alternative way
of looking at things which can sometimes help with problem solving.
Further, in many parts of the US today, "yo hablo espanol" is a useful thing
to have on a resume for just about any job that involves interacting with
the public.
Rather than fighting it I'd say to encourage him at every opportunity.
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Peter Lynch" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>
>> I do agree with youthat teaching him spanish is probably not a good idea.
>> They should be teaching him chinese, that way he'll be able to get a job
>> when he grows up.
>>
>> Pete
>
>
> No kidding.. LOL Unfortunately you would have to be a genius to learn to
> speak Chinese to "any" Chinese person. My neighbor is Chinese and cannot
> understand what other Chinese neighbors are saying. Apparently there are
> many many versions of Chinese.
Written Chinese is fairly standardized, spoken Chinese has region-specific
"dialects" that are as different from each other as Spanish is from French.
Mandarin, which was the language of the ruling class until the Communists
came in (and may still be for all I know), has the most speakers--my
impression is that an "educated" person learned Mandarin in addition to any
regional dialect but I'm a long way from an expert on China.
"GeeDubb" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> "Stoutman" wrote:
>>
>> > I have a 4-year old son who goes to day care 3-days a week. He
>> likes to
>> > watch Dora the Explorer which for those of you that don't know,
>> teaches
>> > kids a few Spanish words. I use to object to him watching it, but
>> now I
>> > don't have the energy to keep changing it when he watches it. Now he
>> > comes home from pre-school and they are teaching him the days of
>> the week
>> > in English and in Spanish. What the f---???
>> >
>> > Why do 'they' feel it is important to teach my 4-year old son Spanish
>> > words when he can barely speak English?? Is Spanish going to be on
>> the
>> > SAT or LSAT or MCAT ???
>> >
>> > This is getting really ridiculous.
>>
>> I feel sorry for you.
>>
>> You obviously don't understand the value of being bilingual.
>>
>> Lew
>
> then give the kid a choice of what language they want to learn.
>
> Comprende?
Nice notion in an ideal world where all kids are sufficiently educated to
have some notion what language will be useful to them and schools have
unlimited budgets for language instruction.
Stoutman <.@.> wrote:
: I am also intrigued by this. Why Spanish?
Um, because it's by far the second most frequently spoken language in the US?
I am also disgusted by the
: English/Spanish choice at the ATM and grocery store U-Scan.
See above.
: The Dora the Explorer show really pisses me off. When I was a kid (I'm 35)
: we were never exposed to a foreign language at that age.
The US is close to alone in having such poor opportunities
for kids to learn second languages.
Maybe very
: infrequently on Sesame Street. The Explorer show he watches teaches Spanish
: every other phrase. Why is there such a big push to force feed Spanish to
: American children?? So they can communicate with Jose down the street who
: can't speak English?? Why shouldn't Jose learn English instead of our kids
: Spanish? Now he is getting force fed Spanish in preschool! Why not
: Yiddish? Oy Vey!
Unless you live in New York or Mentreal, the likelihood of Yiddish being
very useful is pretty small.
Nonetheless, if what you're suggesting is that we increase opportunities
for kids to learn second languages early on, I'm in complete agreement.
: My biggest fear is that he might get words mixed up and start speaking
: Spanglish!
Very unlikely, unless both languages are spoken fluently in your
home (which, I'm guessing from your remarks, isn't the case).
-- Andy Barss
"Stoutman" <.@.> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>> He and his child were not given a choice. In the states we've been
>> hearing a lot about bilingualism for many years. And I can't stand it.
>> Why? Because bilingualism is semi-officially English/Spanish. It's
>> ubiquitous: ATMs, on-line banking, phone help lines, ad nauseum give us
>> the
>> choice of English or Spanish. NotGerman, Swedish, Russian, etc. Why
>> only
>> Spanish?
>
> I am also intrigued by this. Why Spanish? I am also disgusted by the
> English/Spanish choice at the ATM and grocery store U-Scan.
>
> The Dora the Explorer show really pisses me off. When I was a kid (I'm
> 35) we were never exposed to a foreign language at that age. Maybe very
> infrequently on Sesame Street. The Explorer show he watches teaches
> Spanish every other phrase. Why is there such a big push to force feed
> Spanish to American children?? So they can communicate with Jose down the
> street who can't speak English?? Why shouldn't Jose learn English instead
> of our kids Spanish? Now he is getting force fed Spanish in preschool!
> Why not Yiddish? Oy Vey!
>
> My biggest fear is that he might get words mixed up and start speaking
> Spanglish!
Statistically 82 percent of Americans speak English at home, 10 percent
speak Spanish, and the next most common is Chinese (all dialects) with less
than 1 percent. That being the case, if one is going to encounter a person
who doesn't speak English in the US the most likely language to encounter is
Spanish. You'd rather they teach Hungarian, which is spoken by only 0.045
percent of Americans?
I just don't understand your hostility to Spanish--if one speaks English and
Spanish one can make oneself understood anywhere in North and South America
except Brazil, where they speak Portuguese. Why is that a bad thing?
As for a choice at the ATM, why does that anger you? For what it's worth
the local ATMs support something like 8 different languages, one of which is
Spanish.
If this was costing you something I would understand your ire, but it is not
and there just plain is not any downside that I can see.
>
"Stoutman" <.@.> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>> I don't understand how teaching your kid Spanish keeps Jose
>> from learning English.
>
> Do you think Jose would learn English more quickly if he was spoken to in
> Spanish or English? When I was a graduate student, I worked in a lab with
> students from several different countries. The foreigners were forbidden
> from speaking their native language to each other while in the lab in
> order to build their English speaking skills. Much like the foreigners in
> my lab, I think Jose would learn English faster if he was 'forced' to
> learn English. There would be more motivation for Jose if my son couldn't
> speak Spanish. Comprende?
How old is Jose? If you were a graduate student, unless you were an
education major I would expect the "lab" to be one frequented by persons 17
and over. At that age learning a new language is a struggle. At 4 or 5 it
isn't--at that age they learn languages if they are exposed to them, they
don't have to be "taught" in any systematic way.
>>> Now he is getting force fed Spanish in preschool! Why not
>>> Yiddish? Oy Vey!
>>
>> Well, then he could curse really well.
>>
>>>
>>> My biggest fear is that he might get words mixed up and start speaking
>>> Spanglish!
>>
>> Does that happen?
>
> I'm not sure, yo think it is possible. :)
I suspect that you'll find that around 16 or so he'll start speaking quite a
lot of Spanglish, especially if he knows that it pisses you off.
"GeeDubb" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> "Stoutman" <.@.> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>>> He and his child were not given a choice. In the states we've been
>>>> hearing a lot about bilingualism for many years. And I can't stand it.
>>>> Why? Because bilingualism is semi-officially English/Spanish. It's
>>>> ubiquitous: ATMs, on-line banking, phone help lines, ad nauseum give us
>>>> the
>>>> choice of English or Spanish. NotGerman, Swedish, Russian, etc. Why
>>>> only
>>>> Spanish?
>>>
>>> I am also intrigued by this. Why Spanish? I am also disgusted by the
>>> English/Spanish choice at the ATM and grocery store U-Scan.
>>>
>>> The Dora the Explorer show really pisses me off. When I was a kid (I'm
>>> 35) we were never exposed to a foreign language at that age. Maybe very
>>> infrequently on Sesame Street. The Explorer show he watches teaches
>>> Spanish every other phrase. Why is there such a big push to force feed
>>> Spanish to American children?? So they can communicate with Jose down
>>> the street who can't speak English?? Why shouldn't Jose learn English
>>> instead of our kids Spanish? Now he is getting force fed Spanish in
>>> preschool! Why not Yiddish? Oy Vey!
>>>
>>> My biggest fear is that he might get words mixed up and start speaking
>>> Spanglish!
>>
>> Statistically 82 percent of Americans speak English at home, 10 percent
>> speak Spanish, and the next most common is Chinese (all dialects) with
>> less than 1 percent. That being the case, if one is going to encounter a
>> person who doesn't speak English in the US the most likely language to
>> encounter is Spanish. You'd rather they teach Hungarian, which is spoken
>> by only 0.045 percent of Americans?
>>
>> I just don't understand your hostility to Spanish--if one speaks English
>> and Spanish one can make oneself understood anywhere in North and South
>> America except Brazil, where they speak Portuguese. Why is that a bad
>> thing?
>>
>> As for a choice at the ATM, why does that anger you? For what it's
>> worth the local ATMs support something like 8 different languages, one of
>> which is Spanish.
>>
>> If this was costing you something I would understand your ire, but it is
>> not and there just plain is not any downside that I can see.
>>
> good points right up to the last paragraph. In Arizona it does cost us
> since everything government and school is printed in both spanish and
> english (with the exception of street signs). My kids school has more
> mandarin chineese kids than hispanic kids so why doesn't the school supply
> mandarin documentation as well? Answer, the chineese take the initiative
> to learn to speak english......
I was addressing my comments to Stoutman, who is distressed by "Dora the
Explorer", the day school his kid attends, and automatic teller machines,
not about documents printed by the government.
On Wed, 04 Oct 2006 13:18:01 GMT, "dadiOH" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Puckdropper wrote:
>
>> I'd like to point out that this is also true of machine programming
>> languages. Something expressable in 3 Lines Of Code in one
>> language may take 30 or 50 in another.
>
>¡Que viva assembler! :)
He said 30 or 50, not 300 or 500. ;-)
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
On Wed, 04 Oct 2006 02:42:37 GMT, "Stoutman" <.@.> wrote:
>> He and his child were not given a choice. In the states we've been
>> hearing a lot about bilingualism for many years. And I can't stand it.
>> Why? Because bilingualism is semi-officially English/Spanish. It's
>> ubiquitous: ATMs, on-line banking, phone help lines, ad nauseum give us
>> the
>> choice of English or Spanish. NotGerman, Swedish, Russian, etc. Why only
>> Spanish?
>
>I am also intrigued by this. Why Spanish? I am also disgusted by the
>English/Spanish choice at the ATM and grocery store U-Scan.
>
Ultimate irony seen in Tucson: A No-Smoking propaganda banner (no, I
don't smoke) aimed at the high-school crowd. In Spanish. On a Tucson
Unified School District School Bus.
>The Dora the Explorer show really pisses me off. When I was a kid (I'm 35)
>we were never exposed to a foreign language at that age. Maybe very
>infrequently on Sesame Street. The Explorer show he watches teaches Spanish
>every other phrase. Why is there such a big push to force feed Spanish to
>American children?? So they can communicate with Jose down the street who
>can't speak English?? Why shouldn't Jose learn English instead of our kids
>Spanish? Now he is getting force fed Spanish in preschool! Why not
>Yiddish? Oy Vey!
>
While I agree with your sentiment regarding the no choice part, don't
fret too much. In our church body, our ministers are required to learn the
original languages so they can read scripture in its original text. They
and others who teach languages say that after a person has mastered a
second language, third, fourth, and more languages are easy (or at least
easier). They also indicate that starting at a young age makes learning
that second language much easier. You just need to monitor and correct if
he starts mixing languages.
>My biggest fear is that he might get words mixed up and start speaking
>Spanglish!
>
>
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Doug Miller wrote:
>
> Same place I wrote the attitude you attributed to me...
>
"I've met a fair number of [Asian] Indians in the workplace and in
college; all of them speak excellent English, and all of them learned to
speak
it in India -- in fact, it's the first language for some of them."
All of Indians that you've met speak perfect English.
I don't disagree with that. I never said that all Indians my wife has
met don't speak English. This is same as the Polish, Czech, Russians,
Pakistani, etc... that she's also come in contact with. Some speak
great English, some don't. I'll agree that most Indians do speak great
English, just not every Indian who has had kids in my wife's class.
Peter Lynch wrote:
> I do agree with youthat teaching him spanish is probably not a good idea.
> They should be teaching him chinese, that way he'll be able to get a job
> when he grows up.
>
> Pete
You don't know how true that is Pete, my sons school teaches french and
German, with russian and manderin being optional extras....
At work we have had a massive influx of chinese students, to get the
money in the uni has dropped the english requirement, one translates for
the rest, the biggest issue is their attitude to safety or other
instructions, anyone below the level of Dr. need not bother as they will
be ignored.
Give it 5 years and they'll dry up as an income source, they'll be
teaching the subjects back at home!
Badger, on the South coast of England.
Greg Kimnach wrote:
> The OP finds it "unbelievable" for the very reasons, no doubt, that
> my initial reaction is.
>
> It's Spanish.
>
> He and his child were not given a choice. In the states we've been
> hearing a lot about bilingualism for many years. And I can't stand
> it. Why? Because bilingualism is semi-officially English/Spanish.
> It's ubiquitous: ATMs, on-line banking, phone help lines, ad
> nauseum give us the choice of English or Spanish. NotGerman,
> Swedish, Russian, etc. Why only Spanish?
Because the current wave of people speaking another language as a
first language are Spanish speakers and the companies want their
business. IOW, $$$.
_____________
> To keep on topic, here are your Hungarian words for the day:
> Fa - wood
> Tolgyfa - oak
> Nyirfa - birch
> Juharfa - maple
> Cseresznyefa -- cherry
You *could* have included a guide to pronunciation you know. :)
OK, I can manage "fa". Probably :)
--
dadiOH
____________________________
dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
In article <[email protected]>, B A R R Y <[email protected]> wrote:
>Doug Miller wrote:
>
>>
>> I can apply the same comment to you, too -- you don't seem to have
> encountered
>> any Indians who speak proper English, and as far as you're concerned there
>> can't be any.
>>
>
>Where did I write that?
Same place I wrote the attitude you attributed to me...
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.
> I feel sorry for you.
>
> You obviously don't understand the value of being bilingual.
>
> Lew
I totally see the value in being bilingual! I wish I spoke 10 languages,
that would be awesome.
You are missing my point. He is FOUR. Shouldn't he learn English first?
Instead of teaching him two new Spanish words per day, I would rather 'they'
teach ONE new English word!!
On Tue, 03 Oct 2006 00:36:05 GMT, "Stoutman" <.@.> wrote:
>I have a 4-year old son who goes to day care 3-days a week. He likes to
>watch Dora the Explorer which for those of you that don't know, teaches kids
>a few Spanish words. I use to object to him watching it, but now I don't
>have the energy to keep changing it when he watches it. Now he comes home
>from pre-school and they are teaching him the days of the week in English
>and in Spanish. What the f---???
>
>Why do 'they' feel it is important to teach my 4-year old son Spanish words
>when he can barely speak English?? Is Spanish going to be on the SAT or
>LSAT or MCAT ???
>
>This is getting really ridiculous.
>
My grand kids are learning spanish, too.. and I think it's great..
I don't know where you live, but here in Calif., people with 2 or 3 languages
have far better employment and social opportunities, and the younger you learn
something, the easier it is..
Mac
https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis
https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis/wood_stuff.htm
[email protected] wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Morris Dovey <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Stoutman (in [email protected]) said:
>>
>>> Dios Mio!
>>>
>>> Talk about an off-topic thread going off-topic! :)
>>
>> Sometimes these things just SNOBOL out of control <vbg>
>
> Yeah, forget the smalltalk and get back to woodworking!
Assembly isn't part of woodworking? :)
--
dadiOH
____________________________
dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
B A R R Y wrote:
> Doug Miller wrote:
>
>>
>> Not quite... India used to be a British colony, remember? They
>> still teach English in the schools there. The two official
>> languages of India are Hindi and English. I've met a fair number
>> of [Asian] Indians in the workplace and in college; all of them
>> speak excellent English, and all of them learned to speak it in
>> India -- in fact, it's the first language for some of them.
>
>
> So, you work with cab drivers and Indian restaurant prep cooks?
> One of the guys stocks the coolers and shelves at his friend's
> large liquor store. These folks are NOT IT people, call center
> managers, doctors, etc... or for that matter, college educated.
Really? Look in the yellow pages under "Physicians".
--
dadiOH
____________________________
dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
In article <[email protected]>, B A R R Y <[email protected]> wrote:
>[email protected] wrote:
>>
>> What language is being translated into English so the Indian parents
>> can understand?
>>
>
>Now that's funny! <G>
>
>Wrong Indians...
Not quite... India used to be a British colony, remember? They still teach
English in the schools there. The two official languages of India are Hindi
and English. I've met a fair number of [Asian] Indians in the workplace and in
college; all of them speak excellent English, and all of them learned to speak
it in India -- in fact, it's the first language for some of them.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.
On Tue, 03 Oct 2006 03:25:07 GMT, Stoutman wrote:
>> I feel sorry for you.
>>
>> You obviously don't understand the value of being bilingual.
>>
>> Lew
>
> I totally see the value in being bilingual! I wish I spoke 10 languages,
> that would be awesome.
>
> You are missing my point. He is FOUR. Shouldn't he learn English first?
>
> Instead of teaching him two new Spanish words per day, I would rather 'they'
> teach ONE new English word!!
I do agree with youthat teaching him spanish is probably not a good idea.
They should be teaching him chinese, that way he'll be able to get a job
when he grows up.
Pete
--
..........................................................................
. never trust a man who, when left alone ...... Pete Lynch .
. in a room with a tea cosy ...... Marlow, England .
. doesn't try it on (Billy Connolly) .....................................
In article <[email protected]>,
Mark & Juanita <[email protected]> wrote:
<...snipped...>
>
>....................................... For example, at a higher level
>than even Fortran or C, how long do you think it would take to program the
>following in assembly code?
>
>fid = fopen(filename, 'r');
>y = fread(fid);
>fclose(fid);
>
>x = length(y);
>
>figure(1);
>plot(x, y, '-xr');
>title('Data Plot');
>xlabel('Data Point Number');
>ylabel('Data');
<...snipped...>
Does calling the same functions from assembler code count? :)
(and what's with the single quotes?)
--
No dumb questions, just dumb answers.
Larry Wasserman - Baltimore, Maryland - [email protected]
"Peter Lynch" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> I do agree with youthat teaching him spanish is probably not a good idea.
> They should be teaching him chinese, that way he'll be able to get a job
> when he grows up.
>
> Pete
No kidding.. LOL Unfortunately you would have to be a genius to learn to
speak Chinese to "any" Chinese person. My neighbor is Chinese and cannot
understand what other Chinese neighbors are saying. Apparently there are
many many versions of Chinese.
Doug Miller wrote:
>
> Not quite... India used to be a British colony, remember? They still teach
> English in the schools there. The two official languages of India are Hindi
> and English. I've met a fair number of [Asian] Indians in the workplace and in
> college; all of them speak excellent English, and all of them learned to speak
> it in India -- in fact, it's the first language for some of them.
So, you work with cab drivers and Indian restaurant prep cooks? One of
the guys stocks the coolers and shelves at his friend's large liquor
store. These folks are NOT IT people, call center managers, doctors,
etc... or for that matter, college educated.
My wife teaches in an inner city school. While English certainly _is_
the official second language in India, these folks aren't very good with
it. Therefore, the kids would translate my wife to Hindi, or whatever
language they speak at home.
Often, the largest concern these folks have is that their kids are
learning proper English.
But hey, if you haven't seen it yourself, it can't be true... <G>
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
>
>
>"Stoutman" <.@.> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>>I have a 4-year old son who goes to day care 3-days a week. He likes to
>>watch Dora the Explorer which for those of you that don't know, teaches
>>kids a few Spanish words. I use to object to him watching it, but now I
>>don't have the energy to keep changing it when he watches it. Now he
>>comes home from pre-school and they are teaching him the days of the week
>>in English and in Spanish. What the f---???
>>
>> Why do 'they' feel it is important to teach my 4-year old son Spanish
>> words when he can barely speak English?? Is Spanish going to be on the
>> SAT or LSAT or MCAT ???
>>
>> This is getting really ridiculous.
>
>To my way of thinking it's nothing to get upset about. Knowing two
>languages does nobody any harm, children learn multiple languages far more
>easily than adults, and adults who know two languages generally have a lot
>less trouble with learning another than do those who only know one, so if he
>starts out with English and Spanish, later if he wants to learn Japanese or
>Russian or Aramaic or whatever he'll have a leg up.
>
>In many localities the Catholic schools, which nobody has ever accused of
>being bastions of political correctness, start a second language in second
>or third grade--in Louisiana and Canada it's French, don't know what they do
>elsewhere.
>
>Further, it's an odd thing about languages--different languages express
>things differently--something that one can say in a few words in one may
>take several paragraphs in another--knowing two gives you an alternative way
>of looking at things which can sometimes help with problem solving.
>
>Further, in many parts of the US today, "yo hablo espanol" is a useful thing
>to have on a resume for just about any job that involves interacting with
>the public.
>
>Rather than fighting it I'd say to encourage him at every opportunity.
I read the OP's post and quickly scanned through the FU's. Here are my
quick and disjointed thoughts, as meaningless as they may be.
The OP finds it "unbelievable" for the very reasons, no doubt, that my
initial reaction is.
It's Spanish.
He and his child were not given a choice. In the states we've been
hearing a lot about bilingualism for many years. And I can't stand it.
Why? Because bilingualism is semi-officially English/Spanish. It's
ubiquitous: ATMs, on-line banking, phone help lines, ad nauseum give us the
choice of English or Spanish. NotGerman, Swedish, Russian, etc. Why only
Spanish?
We're a nation of immigrants. And many of us, if we were lucky enough to
have parents who had the pride and forethought to teach us, learned another
language (or more). But we were taught to keep it at home, not "demand"
that "the state" and businesses conform to us. Because we're a nation of
immigrants, we need a single common language to be used: English. No
choices. It's either English only, or all. Why discriminate?
Before you go lambasting me, know that I am thoroughly convinced that
bilingualism/multilingualism is a very good thing for individuals. I tell
my immigrant friends that they should speak only their native
language(s)--Spanish included!--to their kids at home. Offering Spanish in
schools is good too: if there's a choice. I know that other than French,
some elementary schools offered either German or Russian also. Many high
schools no doubt did offer more than English, French, Spanish and the
classics. But it seems that we've spiraled down to just English and
Spanish. Why? (Even Latin, which I studied for 5 years, and classical
Greek are less prominent in HSs than just a decade ago.)
I was borne and raised in the states, but did not speak English until I
went to kindergarten. From the time my boys were borne, I've only
communicated in Hungarian with them and their English language skills have
obviously benefited from it. And when we have to pick either Spanish or
French when they enter third grade, I'll push for French.
Lord knows, they're exposed to enough Spanish-no matter how informally-and
they'll be "quad-lingual."
To keep on topic, here are your Hungarian words for the day:
Fa - wood
Tolgyfa - oak
Nyirfa - birch
Juharfa - maple
Cseresznyefa -- cherry
I've wasted enough of your time...
--
regards,
greg (non-hyphenated american)
http://users.adelphia.net/~kimnach
<[email protected]> wrote
>
> Max wrote:
>> "Doug Miller" wrote
>>
>> > Just like I never said that all Indians I've met speak perfect English,
>> > or
>> > that Indians who don't speak perfect English don't exist.
>>
>> > Regards,
>> > Doug Miller
>>
>> I've met very few Americans who speak perfect English.
>>
>
> As a multilingual person explained to me, "It is easy to
> learn to speak English, it is difficult to learn to speak English
> good."
>
> --
>
> FF
LOL. He doesn't speak it well either.
--
Want change? Vote out the incumbents.
Because there is a big push to eliminate the American Mexican border. Cheap
labor you know. Anything for buisiness.
"Stoutman" <.@.> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Why is there such a big push to force feed Spanish to
> American children?? >
> He and his child were not given a choice. In the states we've been
> hearing a lot about bilingualism for many years. And I can't stand it.
> Why? Because bilingualism is semi-officially English/Spanish. It's
> ubiquitous: ATMs, on-line banking, phone help lines, ad nauseum give us
> the
> choice of English or Spanish. NotGerman, Swedish, Russian, etc. Why only
> Spanish?
I am also intrigued by this. Why Spanish? I am also disgusted by the
English/Spanish choice at the ATM and grocery store U-Scan.
The Dora the Explorer show really pisses me off. When I was a kid (I'm 35)
we were never exposed to a foreign language at that age. Maybe very
infrequently on Sesame Street. The Explorer show he watches teaches Spanish
every other phrase. Why is there such a big push to force feed Spanish to
American children?? So they can communicate with Jose down the street who
can't speak English?? Why shouldn't Jose learn English instead of our kids
Spanish? Now he is getting force fed Spanish in preschool! Why not
Yiddish? Oy Vey!
My biggest fear is that he might get words mixed up and start speaking
Spanglish!
In article <[email protected]>, B A R R Y <[email protected]> wrote:
>Doug Miller wrote:
>>
>> Not quite... India used to be a British colony, remember? They still teach
>> English in the schools there. The two official languages of India are Hindi
>> and English.
>
>Sorry I misquoted you in other posts. You got me interested in the
>subject enough to learn more... <G>
>
>I went and looked it up and found some stuff that actually surprised me.
>
>According to:
><http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_India>
>about 150 million of India's population of 1.1 billion speak English.
IOW, about 1 in 7. I'm surprised it's not higher, but I'm sure that the ones
who do speak English are more interested in moving to the U.S. than the ones
who don't.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.
GeeDubb wrote:
> then give the kid a choice of what language they want to learn.
>
> Comprende?
Mejor dicho "entiende?"
"Comprender" means "understand" but implies an empathy as in, "I
understand your pain". "Entender" means to understand intellectually.
--
dadiOH
____________________________
dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
"Stoutman" wrote:
> I have a 4-year old son who goes to day care 3-days a week. He
likes to
> watch Dora the Explorer which for those of you that don't know,
teaches
> kids a few Spanish words. I use to object to him watching it, but
now I
> don't have the energy to keep changing it when he watches it. Now he
> comes home from pre-school and they are teaching him the days of
the week
> in English and in Spanish. What the f---???
>
> Why do 'they' feel it is important to teach my 4-year old son Spanish
> words when he can barely speak English?? Is Spanish going to be on
the
> SAT or LSAT or MCAT ???
>
> This is getting really ridiculous.
I feel sorry for you.
You obviously don't understand the value of being bilingual.
Lew