On Fri, 07 May 2010 11:20:57 -0500, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>Yabbut, you happen to be in a woodworking forum ... not everyone will
>have all the necessary digits to operate a mouse like that.
groan!
On May 7, 2:18=A0pm, "basilisk" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Don't ever spill anything on a Wacom tablet =A0:(
>
> basilsik
Why not? What happens?
.
.
.
.
.
*smirk*
On Sat, 08 May 2010 13:51:08 -0700, Larry Jaques <[email protected]>
wrote:
>On Sat, 08 May 2010 10:38:08 -0500, "[email protected]"
><[email protected]> wrote the following:
>
>>On Sat, 08 May 2010 08:00:29 -0700, Larry Jaques <[email protected]>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Fri, 07 May 2010 19:38:20 -0500, "[email protected]"
>>><[email protected]> wrote the following:
>>>
>>>>On Fri, 7 May 2010 16:25:14 -0500, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>><[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>>>news:a88cf269-7731-4a1b-8629-cd6030ddef6d@k19g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
>>>>>On May 7, 8:40 am, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>> "gray asphalt" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>>>>
>>>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > Read some where that special 3D mice are great for
>>>>>> > CAD stuff. What say you?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> IIRC there is the "Space Navagator" that gets good reviews but I have not
>>>>>> used it.. IIRC it does not replace the mouse rather it suppliments the
>>>>>> mouse.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I cannot stand using a mouse for anything, I hate all the wrist movement,
>>>>>> picking up, sliding, picking up, sliding etc.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have have been very happy with thumb operated track balls for 20+ years.
>>>>>
>>>>>Shouldn't be much wrist movement. Except for gross, across-the page
>>>>>movements, mice should be moved with the fingers. I use my forearm
>>>>>for gross movements. Not much, if any, wrist movement at all.
>>>>>
>>>>>To add a little extra here, there is actually a lot of mouse movement when
>>>>>orbiting of moving across an object that is many times larger than a 23"
>>>>>screen, when you are zoomed in working on details.
>>>>>
>>>>That movement comes from the arm, though. The wrist should be pretty
>>>>inflexible. Wild movements of the wrist are just asking for pain.
>>>
>>>Minute movements of the wrist cause pain. It's the mere lifting of the
>>>fingers and/or the wrist which engages the overstimulated carpal sheaf
>>>nerves.
>>
>>Once the sheath is inflamed, yes. The cause was funky wrist (and finger)
>>movement. Keep the wrists straight and the fingers can move freely.
>
>With your arm on the desk, your hand has to elevate to get onto the
>mouse, bending your wrist. Once your wrist is bent, moving your
>fingers irritates the nerves.
There's your mistake; your arm should not be on the desk. Your desk/chair
heights are all wrong and you're sitting too close to the desk.
>>>And the lifting of the entire arm to move the forearm with a mouse can
>>>cause the shoulder and/or back muscles to spasm in some folks.
>>
>>Why would you *lift* the mouse?
>
>To move your forearm, you lift your ARM, duuuuuuude. I didn't say
>anything about lifting the mouse.
No, if sitting properly there is no need to lift the arm to move it. No
wonder you have RSI issues.
>>Just slide the arm. How do you move the
>>mouse (large distances) "vertically" without moving the arm? Just do the same
>>for lateral movements. Keep the wrist straight.
>
>The mouse lifts your hand off the table, angling your wrist, unless
>you either use A) an arm lift, B) a mouse depression in the desk, or
>C) lift your entire arm each time. Which is it?
D) none of the above. My arm is not on the desk. It's in free space (or on
the arm rest of the chair), where it belongs.
>
>>>BTDT to a very mild extent with both. Moved to a trackball and haven't
>>>looked back. No surgery needed and no pain now, -except- when I use a
>>>mouse for a couple hours. I decided to bypass the pain by moving away
>>>from a mouse as soon as I had determined that it was the culprit.
>>
>>I'm exactly the opposite. No trackballs for me! Oh, the pain...
>
>I didn't say to use a regular trackball, which doesn't help at all and
>may increase the stresses. I specified those with thumb-activated
>balls and gave a list. Try one of those.
I didn't see your list.
On Fri, 07 May 2010 19:38:20 -0500, "[email protected]"
<[email protected]> wrote the following:
>On Fri, 7 May 2010 16:25:14 -0500, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>><[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:a88cf269-7731-4a1b-8629-cd6030ddef6d@k19g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
>>On May 7, 8:40 am, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> "gray asphalt" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>> > Read some where that special 3D mice are great for
>>> > CAD stuff. What say you?
>>>
>>> IIRC there is the "Space Navagator" that gets good reviews but I have not
>>> used it.. IIRC it does not replace the mouse rather it suppliments the
>>> mouse.
>>>
>>> I cannot stand using a mouse for anything, I hate all the wrist movement,
>>> picking up, sliding, picking up, sliding etc.
>>>
>>> I have have been very happy with thumb operated track balls for 20+ years.
>>
>>Shouldn't be much wrist movement. Except for gross, across-the page
>>movements, mice should be moved with the fingers. I use my forearm
>>for gross movements. Not much, if any, wrist movement at all.
>>
>>To add a little extra here, there is actually a lot of mouse movement when
>>orbiting of moving across an object that is many times larger than a 23"
>>screen, when you are zoomed in working on details.
>>
>That movement comes from the arm, though. The wrist should be pretty
>inflexible. Wild movements of the wrist are just asking for pain.
Minute movements of the wrist cause pain. It's the mere lifting of the
fingers and/or the wrist which engages the overstimulated carpal sheaf
nerves.
And the lifting of the entire arm to move the forearm with a mouse can
cause the shoulder and/or back muscles to spasm in some folks.
BTDT to a very mild extent with both. Moved to a trackball and haven't
looked back. No surgery needed and no pain now, -except- when I use a
mouse for a couple hours. I decided to bypass the pain by moving away
from a mouse as soon as I had determined that it was the culprit.
--
Live forever or die in the attempt.
-- Joseph Heller, Catch 22
On Sat, 08 May 2010 10:09:57 -0500, "[email protected]"
<[email protected]> wrote the following:
>On Fri, 7 May 2010 22:31:38 -0700, "Lobby Dosser" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>><[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]...
>>> On Fri, 7 May 2010 16:25:14 -0500, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>><[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>>news:a88cf269-7731-4a1b-8629-cd6030ddef6d@k19g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
>>>>On May 7, 8:40 am, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>> "gray asphalt" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>>>
>>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>>
>>>>> > Read some where that special 3D mice are great for
>>>>> > CAD stuff. What say you?
>>>>>
>>>>> IIRC there is the "Space Navagator" that gets good reviews but I have
>>>>> not
>>>>> used it.. IIRC it does not replace the mouse rather it suppliments the
>>>>> mouse.
>>>>>
>>>>> I cannot stand using a mouse for anything, I hate all the wrist
>>>>> movement,
>>>>> picking up, sliding, picking up, sliding etc.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have have been very happy with thumb operated track balls for 20+
>>>>> years.
>>>>
>>>>Shouldn't be much wrist movement. Except for gross, across-the page
>>>>movements, mice should be moved with the fingers. I use my forearm
>>>>for gross movements. Not much, if any, wrist movement at all.
>>>>
>>>>To add a little extra here, there is actually a lot of mouse movement when
>>>>orbiting of moving across an object that is many times larger than a 23"
>>>>screen, when you are zoomed in working on details.
>>>>
>>> That movement comes from the arm, though. The wrist should be pretty
>>> inflexible. Wild movements of the wrist are just asking for pain.
>>>
>>
>>Watch your wrist and arm as you use your mouse. See muscles move clear up
>>the arm? And its all going through the wrist. Mice and keyboards are
>>probably now the most frequent cause of Carpal Tunnel Syndrome.
>
>CTS isn't a problem with the tendons directly (only the tendons of the thumb
>and first to fingers go through the Carpal Tunnel), rather the strange
>position of the wrist causing the tendons and nerves to pinch in the CT.
>Minimizing motion of the wrist also helps. The function of a CTS brace is to
>immobilize the wrist in the correct position to keep the Carpal Tunnel
>straight. That shouldn't be required since the wrist should be kept straight
>without it. Been there.
If anyone is experiencing CTS now, pick up a copy of Adelle Davis'
_Let's Eat Right to Keep Fit_. She mentions that a lack of lecithin,
which almost entirely makes up the myelin sheath, can cause those
problems.
--
Live forever or die in the attempt.
-- Joseph Heller, Catch 22
On Sat, 08 May 2010 13:57:35 -0700, Larry Jaques <[email protected]>
wrote:
>On Sat, 08 May 2010 10:09:57 -0500, "[email protected]"
><[email protected]> wrote the following:
>
>>On Fri, 7 May 2010 22:31:38 -0700, "Lobby Dosser" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>><[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>news:[email protected]...
>>>> On Fri, 7 May 2010 16:25:14 -0500, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>><[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>>>news:a88cf269-7731-4a1b-8629-cd6030ddef6d@k19g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
>>>>>On May 7, 8:40 am, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>> "gray asphalt" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>>>>
>>>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > Read some where that special 3D mice are great for
>>>>>> > CAD stuff. What say you?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> IIRC there is the "Space Navagator" that gets good reviews but I have
>>>>>> not
>>>>>> used it.. IIRC it does not replace the mouse rather it suppliments the
>>>>>> mouse.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I cannot stand using a mouse for anything, I hate all the wrist
>>>>>> movement,
>>>>>> picking up, sliding, picking up, sliding etc.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have have been very happy with thumb operated track balls for 20+
>>>>>> years.
>>>>>
>>>>>Shouldn't be much wrist movement. Except for gross, across-the page
>>>>>movements, mice should be moved with the fingers. I use my forearm
>>>>>for gross movements. Not much, if any, wrist movement at all.
>>>>>
>>>>>To add a little extra here, there is actually a lot of mouse movement when
>>>>>orbiting of moving across an object that is many times larger than a 23"
>>>>>screen, when you are zoomed in working on details.
>>>>>
>>>> That movement comes from the arm, though. The wrist should be pretty
>>>> inflexible. Wild movements of the wrist are just asking for pain.
>>>>
>>>
>>>Watch your wrist and arm as you use your mouse. See muscles move clear up
>>>the arm? And its all going through the wrist. Mice and keyboards are
>>>probably now the most frequent cause of Carpal Tunnel Syndrome.
>>
>>CTS isn't a problem with the tendons directly (only the tendons of the thumb
>>and first to fingers go through the Carpal Tunnel), rather the strange
>>position of the wrist causing the tendons and nerves to pinch in the CT.
>>Minimizing motion of the wrist also helps. The function of a CTS brace is to
>>immobilize the wrist in the correct position to keep the Carpal Tunnel
>>straight. That shouldn't be required since the wrist should be kept straight
>>without it. Been there.
>
>If anyone is experiencing CTS now, pick up a copy of Adelle Davis'
>_Let's Eat Right to Keep Fit_. She mentions that a lack of lecithin,
>which almost entirely makes up the myelin sheath, can cause those
>problems.
I'm not much into "magic remedies", when the problem can easily be remedied by
removing the mechanical abuse.
On Sat, 8 May 2010 10:53:04 -0500, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
><[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On Fri, 7 May 2010 16:19:17 -0500, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>><[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>news:a88cf269-7731-4a1b-8629-cd6030ddef6d@k19g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
>>>On May 7, 8:40 am, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> "gray asphalt" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>>
>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>
>>>> > Read some where that special 3D mice are great for
>>>> > CAD stuff. What say you?
>>>>
>>>> IIRC there is the "Space Navagator" that gets good reviews but I have
>>>> not
>>>> used it.. IIRC it does not replace the mouse rather it suppliments the
>>>> mouse.
>>>>
>>>> I cannot stand using a mouse for anything, I hate all the wrist
>>>> movement,
>>>> picking up, sliding, picking up, sliding etc.
>>>>
>>>> I have have been very happy with thumb operated track balls for 20+
>>>> years.
>>>
>>>Shouldn't be much wrist movement. Except for gross, across-the page
>>>movements, mice should be moved with the fingers. I use my forearm
>>>for gross movements. Not much, if any, wrist movement at all.
>>>
>>>I have tried it with my wide's computer and mouse, seemed like a waste of
>> ^^^^^^ Wow! Are you in trouble now!
>>>time and effort to move the cursor and to orbit.
>>
>> Set too slow? What's the issue?
>
>
>Almost with out fail something gets in the way. I guess it is more the left
>and right motion rather than my picking the mouse up that is my problem. It
>just takes me a lot longer to move the mouse than it does to move my thumb.
>Rolling my thumb top to bottom on the ball gets me 70% across the screen,
>rolling forward and backward gets me top to bottom.
That's just a matter of tuning the mouse sensitivity and acceleration.
>>
>>>And as far as track balls go, it has to be thumb operated, I prefer my
>>>fingers do the clicking and wheel rolling.
>>
>> I can't stand track balls, at least the fancy ones (I had a small one in
>> the
>> corner of a keyboard that worked well where space was constrained). My
>> wrist
>> would be shot in a half hour. Like you said, it's a very personal thing.
>> I use Logitech laser mice.
>
>In general I hate track balls that are not "thumb only" operated. There are
>only a few out there that are available in the thumb configuration.
I find that the ball is in a horrible position for my hands. Like I said
earlier, I had a keyboard with a built-in ball in the upper right corner that
was OK for places where there wasn't room for a mouse (our lab). I could wrap
my fingers around the right side of the keyboard and operate the ball with my
thumb. That certainly worked better than a pad (I hate them) or trackstick
(acceptable on the lap).
On 7 May, 01:59, "gray asphalt" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Read some where that special 3D mice are great for
> CAD stuff. What say you?
Tablets are best.
Logitech "laser" mice are good too. They have an invisible scanner
beneath, not the red LED, and they're noticeably more precise. Cheap
too - my USB cabled one was under =A310. The Logitech "darkfield" mice
(work on any surface, including glass) are good too, but more
expensive - mine was =A350 for a cordless.
"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:f15ae3e5-a082-4301-9aef-aaae5a058efe@r11g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
On May 7, 12:36 pm, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 5/6/2010 7:59 PM, gray asphalt wrote:
>
> > Read some where that special 3D mice are great for
> > CAD stuff. What say you?
>
> The minimum for Sketchup is reckoned to be a two button mouse with
> wheel, which is all I use with SU (LogiTech wireless laser); and I'm a
> pretty heavy user, often rendering an entire house from scratch off a
> full set of architectural and structural drawings, from foundation to
> cross sections, for bidding purposes.
>
> After that it's really a matter of personal preference.
>
> That said, I'm certainly interested in any supported device that would
> make the job easier.
>
> --www.e-woodshop.net
> Last update: 4/15/2010
> KarlC@ (the obvious)
It took a while to get weened off my trackball, but that Wacom Intuos
tablet/pen/mouse combo is awful hard to surpass. I would have no idea
how that concept could be improved upon, yet still, I miss the
'ballistic' feature of sending a pointer across the diagonal of a 30"
screen with a mere flick of the wrist of a trackball.
I do, however, like the medium size tablet the best. The big ones are
just too cumbersome and I'm no artist where I need to have that much
real estate. (They're also stupid money.) The small tablet is just
that... small. Not quite enough fine movement ability.
Henceforth, the Medium winneth.
The Wacom Medium Intuos is the Festool of input devices... there... I
said it. (It is one of those deals where you didn't know what you
didn't know till you used one and then wondered how you ever built a
house without one...okay, I embellish..)
Don't ever spill anything on a Wacom tablet :(
basilsik
On 5/10/2010 8:17 PM, Ivan Vegvary wrote:
> Rotaboy, while I've been doing CAD work (AutoCad, SolidWorks, Invetor,
> Revit, Civil3D etc.) for over 35 years, I don't know what you mean about
> your mouse having to be pointed vertical. Right now I'm using a generic,
> inexpensive optical mouse with a wheel. To draw a vertical line in any
> of the programs above I simply slide the mouse vertically. The angle at
> which I hold the mouse does not seem to matter one iota!!
>
> Please elaborate on what you mean. I haven't run SketchUp for about a
> year and I have not tried that one.
Could be wrong, but I don't think this has anything to do with SU?
If I turn my laser mouse sideways and move it vertically, the pointer
moves sideways, regardless of the program.
On that note, one of the things that makes SU easier to use with a mouse
in my experience, even easier than many other programs, is its geometric
analysis inference engine.
For instance, in line drawing the linear inference will automagically
move between snapping a new line on axis, from point, perpendicular,
parallel, or tangent to the vertex.
This is real handy for the non pro's like me, particularly when drawing
in 3D.
On most CAD programs I've used in the past I've had to periodically set
a parameter/hold a key down to get that ability, even in 2D.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Fri, 7 May 2010 16:19:17 -0500, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>><[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:a88cf269-7731-4a1b-8629-cd6030ddef6d@k19g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
>>On May 7, 8:40 am, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> "gray asphalt" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>> > Read some where that special 3D mice are great for
>>> > CAD stuff. What say you?
>>>
>>> IIRC there is the "Space Navagator" that gets good reviews but I have
>>> not
>>> used it.. IIRC it does not replace the mouse rather it suppliments the
>>> mouse.
>>>
>>> I cannot stand using a mouse for anything, I hate all the wrist
>>> movement,
>>> picking up, sliding, picking up, sliding etc.
>>>
>>> I have have been very happy with thumb operated track balls for 20+
>>> years.
>>
>>Shouldn't be much wrist movement. Except for gross, across-the page
>>movements, mice should be moved with the fingers. I use my forearm
>>for gross movements. Not much, if any, wrist movement at all.
>>
>>I have tried it with my wide's computer and mouse, seemed like a waste of
> ^^^^^^ Wow! Are you in trouble now!
>>time and effort to move the cursor and to orbit.
>
> Set too slow? What's the issue?
Almost with out fail something gets in the way. I guess it is more the left
and right motion rather than my picking the mouse up that is my problem. It
just takes me a lot longer to move the mouse than it does to move my thumb.
Rolling my thumb top to bottom on the ball gets me 70% across the screen,
rolling forward and backward gets me top to bottom.
>
>>And as far as track balls go, it has to be thumb operated, I prefer my
>>fingers do the clicking and wheel rolling.
>
> I can't stand track balls, at least the fancy ones (I had a small one in
> the
> corner of a keyboard that worked well where space was constrained). My
> wrist
> would be shot in a half hour. Like you said, it's a very personal thing.
> I use Logitech laser mice.
In general I hate track balls that are not "thumb only" operated. There are
only a few out there that are available in the thumb configuration.
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:a88cf269-7731-4a1b-8629-cd6030ddef6d@k19g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
On May 7, 8:40 am, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "gray asphalt" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...
>
> > Read some where that special 3D mice are great for
> > CAD stuff. What say you?
>
> IIRC there is the "Space Navagator" that gets good reviews but I have not
> used it.. IIRC it does not replace the mouse rather it suppliments the
> mouse.
>
> I cannot stand using a mouse for anything, I hate all the wrist movement,
> picking up, sliding, picking up, sliding etc.
>
> I have have been very happy with thumb operated track balls for 20+ years.
Shouldn't be much wrist movement. Except for gross, across-the page
movements, mice should be moved with the fingers. I use my forearm
for gross movements. Not much, if any, wrist movement at all.
I have tried it with my wide's computer and mouse, seemed like a waste of
time and effort to move the cursor and to orbit.
And as far as track balls go, it has to be thumb operated, I prefer my
fingers do the clicking and wheel rolling.
On 2010-05-07, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Shouldn't be much wrist movement. Except for gross, across-the page
>> movements, mice should be moved with the fingers. I use my forearm
>> for gross movements. Not much, if any, wrist movement at all.
>
> Yabbut, you happen to be in a woodworking forum ... not everyone will
> have all the necessary digits to operate a mouse like that.
LOL!.....
As for the mouse, use what works for you. Any advice from others on
which is the best mouse is USELESS!! Another persons dream mouse may
be your crippling nightmare. Only you can know this by using it
yourself.
I was a pro Autocad designer. Forty plus hours per week pushing a
mouse. I tried them all. Mouse, trackball, etc. What worked for me
is personal. Of all the many cad drafter/designers in our group, no
two ppl ever used the same setup. I have a box of old Logitech
asymetric 3-button mouses. I've never again seen the same perfect
combination of button spring tension, ball resolution, hand fit, etc,
again. But, that's me. ;)
In the end, it's not what works. They all work. It's what doesn't
work for you, what will end up giving you RSI problems. Usually, you
won't know till it's too late. Sure, there will be an initial period
of discomfort as you use new muscles. But, if after a reasonable
period you start feeling continuing or persistent pain, change
immediately. It only takes a few weeks to create an RSI problem that
may take months to remedy. BTDT! ...more than once.
nb
On 5/6/2010 7:59 PM, gray asphalt wrote:
> Read some where that special 3D mice are great for
> CAD stuff. What say you?
The minimum for Sketchup is reckoned to be a two button mouse with
wheel, which is all I use with SU (LogiTech wireless laser); and I'm a
pretty heavy user, often rendering an entire house from scratch off a
full set of architectural and structural drawings, from foundation to
cross sections, for bidding purposes.
After that it's really a matter of personal preference.
That said, I'm certainly interested in any supported device that would
make the job easier.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)
"gray asphalt" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Read some where that special 3D mice are great for
> CAD stuff. What say you?
>
>
IIRC there is the "Space Navagator" that gets good reviews but I have not
used it.. IIRC it does not replace the mouse rather it suppliments the
mouse.
I cannot stand using a mouse for anything, I hate all the wrist movement,
picking up, sliding, picking up, sliding etc.
I have have been very happy with thumb operated track balls for 20+ years.
On Sat, 08 May 2010 08:00:29 -0700, Larry Jaques <[email protected]>
wrote:
>On Fri, 07 May 2010 19:38:20 -0500, "[email protected]"
><[email protected]> wrote the following:
>
>>On Fri, 7 May 2010 16:25:14 -0500, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>><[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>news:a88cf269-7731-4a1b-8629-cd6030ddef6d@k19g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
>>>On May 7, 8:40 am, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> "gray asphalt" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>>
>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>
>>>> > Read some where that special 3D mice are great for
>>>> > CAD stuff. What say you?
>>>>
>>>> IIRC there is the "Space Navagator" that gets good reviews but I have not
>>>> used it.. IIRC it does not replace the mouse rather it suppliments the
>>>> mouse.
>>>>
>>>> I cannot stand using a mouse for anything, I hate all the wrist movement,
>>>> picking up, sliding, picking up, sliding etc.
>>>>
>>>> I have have been very happy with thumb operated track balls for 20+ years.
>>>
>>>Shouldn't be much wrist movement. Except for gross, across-the page
>>>movements, mice should be moved with the fingers. I use my forearm
>>>for gross movements. Not much, if any, wrist movement at all.
>>>
>>>To add a little extra here, there is actually a lot of mouse movement when
>>>orbiting of moving across an object that is many times larger than a 23"
>>>screen, when you are zoomed in working on details.
>>>
>>That movement comes from the arm, though. The wrist should be pretty
>>inflexible. Wild movements of the wrist are just asking for pain.
>
>Minute movements of the wrist cause pain. It's the mere lifting of the
>fingers and/or the wrist which engages the overstimulated carpal sheaf
>nerves.
Once the sheath is inflamed, yes. The cause was funky wrist (and finger)
movement. Keep the wrists straight and the fingers can move freely.
>And the lifting of the entire arm to move the forearm with a mouse can
>cause the shoulder and/or back muscles to spasm in some folks.
Why would you *lift* the mouse? Just slide the arm. How do you move the
mouse (large distances) "vertically" without moving the arm? Just do the same
for lateral movements. Keep the wrist straight.
>BTDT to a very mild extent with both. Moved to a trackball and haven't
>looked back. No surgery needed and no pain now, -except- when I use a
>mouse for a couple hours. I decided to bypass the pain by moving away
>from a mouse as soon as I had determined that it was the culprit.
I'm exactly the opposite. No trackballs for me! Oh, the pain...
On May 7, 8:40=A0am, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "gray asphalt" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...
>
> > Read some where that special 3D mice are great for
> > CAD stuff. What say you?
>
> IIRC there is the "Space Navagator" that gets good reviews but =A0I have =
not
> used it.. =A0IIRC it does not replace the mouse rather it suppliments the
> mouse.
>
> I cannot stand using a mouse for anything, I hate all the wrist movement,
> picking up, sliding, picking up, sliding etc.
>
> I have have been very happy with thumb operated track balls for 20+ years=
.
Shouldn't be much wrist movement. Except for gross, across-the page
movements, mice should be moved with the fingers. I use my forearm
for gross movements. Not much, if any, wrist movement at all.
On Fri, 7 May 2010 22:31:38 -0700, "Lobby Dosser" <[email protected]> wrote:
><[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On Fri, 7 May 2010 16:25:14 -0500, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>><[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>news:a88cf269-7731-4a1b-8629-cd6030ddef6d@k19g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
>>>On May 7, 8:40 am, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> "gray asphalt" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>>
>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>
>>>> > Read some where that special 3D mice are great for
>>>> > CAD stuff. What say you?
>>>>
>>>> IIRC there is the "Space Navagator" that gets good reviews but I have
>>>> not
>>>> used it.. IIRC it does not replace the mouse rather it suppliments the
>>>> mouse.
>>>>
>>>> I cannot stand using a mouse for anything, I hate all the wrist
>>>> movement,
>>>> picking up, sliding, picking up, sliding etc.
>>>>
>>>> I have have been very happy with thumb operated track balls for 20+
>>>> years.
>>>
>>>Shouldn't be much wrist movement. Except for gross, across-the page
>>>movements, mice should be moved with the fingers. I use my forearm
>>>for gross movements. Not much, if any, wrist movement at all.
>>>
>>>To add a little extra here, there is actually a lot of mouse movement when
>>>orbiting of moving across an object that is many times larger than a 23"
>>>screen, when you are zoomed in working on details.
>>>
>> That movement comes from the arm, though. The wrist should be pretty
>> inflexible. Wild movements of the wrist are just asking for pain.
>>
>
>Watch your wrist and arm as you use your mouse. See muscles move clear up
>the arm? And its all going through the wrist. Mice and keyboards are
>probably now the most frequent cause of Carpal Tunnel Syndrome.
CTS isn't a problem with the tendons directly (only the tendons of the thumb
and first to fingers go through the Carpal Tunnel), rather the strange
position of the wrist causing the tendons and nerves to pinch in the CT.
Minimizing motion of the wrist also helps. The function of a CTS brace is to
immobilize the wrist in the correct position to keep the Carpal Tunnel
straight. That shouldn't be required since the wrist should be kept straight
without it. Been there.
On May 7, 11:20=A0am, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 5/7/2010 11:07 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>
> > Shouldn't be much wrist movement. =A0Except for gross, across-the page
> > movements, mice should be moved with the fingers. =A0I use my forearm
> > for gross movements. =A0Not much, if any, wrist movement at all.
>
> Yabbut, you happen to be in a woodworking forum ... not everyone will
> have all the necessary digits to operate a mouse like that.
I guess double-clicking is out of the question than, too.
On Fri, 7 May 2010 16:19:17 -0500, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
><[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:a88cf269-7731-4a1b-8629-cd6030ddef6d@k19g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
>On May 7, 8:40 am, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> "gray asphalt" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>
>> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> > Read some where that special 3D mice are great for
>> > CAD stuff. What say you?
>>
>> IIRC there is the "Space Navagator" that gets good reviews but I have not
>> used it.. IIRC it does not replace the mouse rather it suppliments the
>> mouse.
>>
>> I cannot stand using a mouse for anything, I hate all the wrist movement,
>> picking up, sliding, picking up, sliding etc.
>>
>> I have have been very happy with thumb operated track balls for 20+ years.
>
>Shouldn't be much wrist movement. Except for gross, across-the page
>movements, mice should be moved with the fingers. I use my forearm
>for gross movements. Not much, if any, wrist movement at all.
>
>I have tried it with my wide's computer and mouse, seemed like a waste of
^^^^^^ Wow! Are you in trouble now!
>time and effort to move the cursor and to orbit.
Set too slow? What's the issue?
>And as far as track balls go, it has to be thumb operated, I prefer my
>fingers do the clicking and wheel rolling.
I can't stand track balls, at least the fancy ones (I had a small one in the
corner of a keyboard that worked well where space was constrained). My wrist
would be shot in a half hour. Like you said, it's a very personal thing.
I use Logitech laser mice.
On Fri, 7 May 2010 08:40:46 -0500, "Leon" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
>"gray asphalt" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> Read some where that special 3D mice are great for
>> CAD stuff. What say you?
>>
>>
>
>IIRC there is the "Space Navagator" that gets good reviews but I have not
>used it.. IIRC it does not replace the mouse rather it suppliments the
>mouse.
>
>I cannot stand using a mouse for anything, I hate all the wrist movement,
>picking up, sliding, picking up, sliding etc.
>
>I have have been very happy with thumb operated track balls for 20+ years.
>
I use the 3DConnexion Space Navigator with Sketchup. Lets me really
fly. I drive it with my left hand to handle zooming and xyz
positioning and use the right hand and 5 button scroll wheel mouse to
do the actual drawing. The CAD guys at work are adept at using one
hand on the keyboard and the other with the mouse or tablet, and they
can move really quick too. But I just found the SN to be quite
intuitive and fast to get used to.
HTH,
Paul Franklin
On Sun, 09 May 2010 09:06:54 -0500, "[email protected]"
<[email protected]> wrote the following:
>On Sat, 08 May 2010 13:51:08 -0700, Larry Jaques <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>>I didn't say to use a regular trackball, which doesn't help at all and
>>may increase the stresses. I specified those with thumb-activated
>>balls and gave a list. Try one of those.
>
>I didn't see your list.
Unfortunately, I didn't save a copy.
Let's rebuild it, this time saving it:
The Logitechs include the Trackman Portable (which Toshiba and IBM
both licensed and built), Trackman Optical, and Cordless Trackman
Wheel.
Microsoft put out the Trackball Optical and Ballpoint mouse.
Another possible type is the IOGEAR Phaser 3-in-1 Presentation/Mouse
and the Logitech Trackman Live! I don't think I'd like the small
balls, though. It might limit fullscreen pointer travel, which is a
problem with the Trackman Portable in XP unless you turn off pointer
precision, which isn't as bad a problem.
I ordered one of these from Hong Kong the other day and expect it
sometime this month. http://fwd4.me/NQs
--
The doctor of the future will give no medicine, but will interest her
or his patients in the care of the human frame, in a proper diet, and
in the cause and prevention of disease.
-- Thomas A. Edison
On May 7, 10:30=A0pm, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 5/7/2010 6:00 PM, Paul Franklin wrote:
> > On Fri, 7 May 2010 08:40:46 -0500, "Leon"<[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> >> "gray asphalt"<[email protected]> =A0wrote in message
>
> >>> Read some where that special 3D mice are great for
> >>> CAD stuff. What say you?
>
> >> IIRC there is the "Space Navagator" that gets good reviews but =A0I ha=
ve not
> >> used it.. =A0IIRC it does not replace the mouse rather it suppliments =
the
> >> mouse.
>
> >> I cannot stand using a mouse for anything, I hate all the wrist moveme=
nt,
> >> picking up, sliding, picking up, sliding etc.
>
> >> I have have been very happy with thumb operated track balls for 20+ ye=
ars.
>
> > =A0 I use the 3DConnexion Space Navigator with Sketchup. =A0Lets me rea=
lly
> > fly. =A0I drive it with my left hand to handle zooming and xyz
> > positioning and use the right hand and 5 button scroll wheel mouse to
> > do the actual drawing. =A0The CAD guys at work are adept at using one
> > hand on the keyboard and the other with the mouse or tablet, and they
> > can move really quick too. =A0But I just found the SN to be quite
> > intuitive and fast to get used to.
>
> I've had an eye on the Space Navigator for awhile, just never got a
> chance to check it out personally since retailers are so sparse in this
> neck of the woods.
>
> I keep hearing good things about it and it makes sense to do panning,
> zooming and orbiting with one hand while drawing with the other. May
> have to give it a try.
I picked up a SpacePilot (the older model) on eBay and love the thing.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/682518-REG/HP_Hewlett_Packard_EF390UT=
_SPACEPILOT_USB_3D_INPUT.html
The extra buttons make it a lot more versatile, and it's comfortable.
On Fri, 07 May 2010 11:36:39 -0500, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>After that it's really a matter of personal preference.
>
>That said, I'm certainly interested in any supported device that would
>make the job easier.
I use an Intellimouse Explorer four button mouse with scrolling,
tilting centre wheel. The thing I like best about it is that the two
side buttons are programmable for almost any preference. I also prefer
a corded mouse which prevents accidentally dropping it on the floor
and breaking it as well as eliminating any intermittent cordless
stuttering movement.
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 5/10/2010 8:17 PM, Ivan Vegvary wrote:
>
>> Rotaboy, while I've been doing CAD work (AutoCad, SolidWorks, Invetor,
>> Revit, Civil3D etc.) for over 35 years, I don't know what you mean about
>> your mouse having to be pointed vertical. Right now I'm using a generic,
>> inexpensive optical mouse with a wheel. To draw a vertical line in any
>> of the programs above I simply slide the mouse vertically. The angle at
>> which I hold the mouse does not seem to matter one iota!!
> >
> > Please elaborate on what you mean. I haven't run SketchUp for about a
> > year and I have not tried that one.
>
> Could be wrong, but I don't think this has anything to do with SU?
>
> If I turn my laser mouse sideways and move it vertically, the pointer
> moves sideways, regardless of the program.
>
> On that note, one of the things that makes SU easier to use with a mouse
> in my experience, even easier than many other programs, is its geometric
> analysis inference engine.
>
> For instance, in line drawing the linear inference will automagically move
> between snapping a new line on axis, from point, perpendicular, parallel,
> or tangent to the vertex.
>
> This is real handy for the non pro's like me, particularly when drawing in
> 3D.
>
> On most CAD programs I've used in the past I've had to periodically set a
> parameter/hold a key down to get that ability, even in 2D.
With AutoCAD you simply turn "Ortho on" to make lines go horizontal or
vertical. Drag the mouse short of 45 degrees and the line is horizonal.
Drag the mouse over 45 degrees and the line goes vertical.
Turn Ortho off and the line follows the mouse.
On May 6, 8:59=A0pm, "gray asphalt" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Read some where that special 3D mice are great for
> CAD stuff. What say you?
My way of thinking says that SketchUp would be easier to handle when
using a tablet. I say that because I have always used trackballs and
tablets. I do not like mice, and I abhor trackpads. I can use all of
the above but my absolute favourite is a Wacom tablet with their
mouse. Why their mouse? Well, I am glad you asked. If one moves an
ordinary mouse to create, say, a vertical (on screen visual of
vertical) motion, an ordinary mouse must be pointed perfectly into
that direction. The Wacom mouse can be held sideways, pointing towards
or away from you, it will still give you a vertical movement if you
move it vertically.
I use a Intuos Medium (http://www.wacom.com/intuos/medium.php) every
day and have a Wacom Graphite installed on another computer.
The Bamboo ones I'm told, are quite capable and fun.
On 5/8/2010 10:56 AM, Leon wrote:
> "Swingman"<[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> Snip
>
>
>>
>> I keep hearing good things about it and it makes sense to do panning,
>> zooming and orbiting with one hand while drawing with the other. May have
>> to give it a try.
>>
>> Thanks ...
>
>
> Working a control with the left and right hand sounds tricky,,, a lot like
> playing domino's and winning.
As long as there's no estrogen involved, no problem.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)
On Fri, 7 May 2010 08:40:46 -0500, "Leon" <[email protected]>
wrote the following:
>
>"gray asphalt" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> Read some where that special 3D mice are great for
>> CAD stuff. What say you?
>>
>>
>
>IIRC there is the "Space Navagator" that gets good reviews but I have not
>used it.. IIRC it does not replace the mouse rather it suppliments the
>mouse.
Nevahoiduvit. (Time to googlit)
>I cannot stand using a mouse for anything, I hate all the wrist movement,
>picking up, sliding, picking up, sliding etc.
>
>I have have been very happy with thumb operated track balls for 20+ years.
Ditto that, in spades.
--
Live forever or die in the attempt.
-- Joseph Heller, Catch 22
On May 7, 12:36=A0pm, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 5/6/2010 7:59 PM, gray asphalt wrote:
>
> > Read some where that special 3D mice are great for
> > CAD stuff. What say you?
>
> The minimum for Sketchup is reckoned to be a two button mouse with
> wheel, which is all I use with SU (LogiTech wireless laser); and I'm a
> pretty heavy user, often rendering an entire house from scratch off a
> full set of architectural and structural drawings, from foundation to
> cross sections, for bidding purposes.
>
> After that it's really a matter of personal preference.
>
> That said, I'm certainly interested in any supported device that would
> make the job easier.
>
> --www.e-woodshop.net
> Last update: 4/15/2010
> KarlC@ (the obvious)
It took a while to get weened off my trackball, but that Wacom Intuos
tablet/pen/mouse combo is awful hard to surpass. I would have no idea
how that concept could be improved upon, yet still, I miss the
'ballistic' feature of sending a pointer across the diagonal of a 30"
screen with a mere flick of the wrist of a trackball.
I do, however, like the medium size tablet the best. The big ones are
just too cumbersome and I'm no artist where I need to have that much
real estate. (They're also stupid money.) The small tablet is just
that... small. Not quite enough fine movement ability.
Henceforth, the Medium winneth.
The Wacom Medium Intuos is the Festool of input devices... there... I
said it. (It is one of those deals where you didn't know what you
didn't know till you used one and then wondered how you ever built a
house without one...okay, I embellish..)
On 5/7/2010 9:40 AM, Leon wrote:
> "gray asphalt"<[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Read some where that special 3D mice are great for
>> CAD stuff. What say you?
>>
>>
>
> IIRC there is the "Space Navagator" that gets good reviews but I have not
> used it.. IIRC it does not replace the mouse rather it suppliments the
> mouse.
>
> I cannot stand using a mouse for anything, I hate all the wrist movement,
> picking up, sliding, picking up, sliding etc.
>
> I have have been very happy with thumb operated track balls for 20+ years.
In any case, they are only useful if your application supports them.
Does Sketchup?
On 5/7/2010 2:18 PM, basilisk wrote:
> "Robatoy"<[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:f15ae3e5-a082-4301-9aef-aaae5a058efe@r11g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
> On May 7, 12:36 pm, Swingman<[email protected]> wrote:
>> On 5/6/2010 7:59 PM, gray asphalt wrote:
>>
>>> Read some where that special 3D mice are great for
>>> CAD stuff. What say you?
>>
>> The minimum for Sketchup is reckoned to be a two button mouse with
>> wheel, which is all I use with SU (LogiTech wireless laser); and I'm a
>> pretty heavy user, often rendering an entire house from scratch off a
>> full set of architectural and structural drawings, from foundation to
>> cross sections, for bidding purposes.
>>
>> After that it's really a matter of personal preference.
>>
>> That said, I'm certainly interested in any supported device that would
>> make the job easier.
>>
>> --www.e-woodshop.net
>> Last update: 4/15/2010
>> KarlC@ (the obvious)
>
> It took a while to get weened off my trackball, but that Wacom Intuos
> tablet/pen/mouse combo is awful hard to surpass.
Have you seen a Wacom Cintiq? If I ever hit the lotto . . .
> I would have no idea
> how that concept could be improved upon, yet still, I miss the
> 'ballistic' feature of sending a pointer across the diagonal of a 30"
> screen with a mere flick of the wrist of a trackball.
> I do, however, like the medium size tablet the best. The big ones are
> just too cumbersome and I'm no artist where I need to have that much
> real estate. (They're also stupid money.) The small tablet is just
> that... small. Not quite enough fine movement ability.
> Henceforth, the Medium winneth.
>
> The Wacom Medium Intuos is the Festool of input devices... there... I
> said it. (It is one of those deals where you didn't know what you
> didn't know till you used one and then wondered how you ever built a
> house without one...okay, I embellish..)
>
> Don't ever spill anything on a Wacom tablet :(
>
> basilsik
>
>
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Fri, 7 May 2010 16:25:14 -0500, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>><[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:a88cf269-7731-4a1b-8629-cd6030ddef6d@k19g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
>>On May 7, 8:40 am, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> "gray asphalt" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>> > Read some where that special 3D mice are great for
>>> > CAD stuff. What say you?
>>>
>>> IIRC there is the "Space Navagator" that gets good reviews but I have
>>> not
>>> used it.. IIRC it does not replace the mouse rather it suppliments the
>>> mouse.
>>>
>>> I cannot stand using a mouse for anything, I hate all the wrist
>>> movement,
>>> picking up, sliding, picking up, sliding etc.
>>>
>>> I have have been very happy with thumb operated track balls for 20+
>>> years.
>>
>>Shouldn't be much wrist movement. Except for gross, across-the page
>>movements, mice should be moved with the fingers. I use my forearm
>>for gross movements. Not much, if any, wrist movement at all.
>>
>>To add a little extra here, there is actually a lot of mouse movement when
>>orbiting of moving across an object that is many times larger than a 23"
>>screen, when you are zoomed in working on details.
>>
> That movement comes from the arm, though. The wrist should be pretty
> inflexible. Wild movements of the wrist are just asking for pain.
>
Watch your wrist and arm as you use your mouse. See muscles move clear up
the arm? And its all going through the wrist. Mice and keyboards are
probably now the most frequent cause of Carpal Tunnel Syndrome.
"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:d61866ca-e5df-497f-86bd-cc6df7bbe47e@n15g2000yqf.googlegroups.com...
On May 6, 8:59 pm, "gray asphalt" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Read some where that special 3D mice are great for
> CAD stuff. What say you?
My way of thinking says that SketchUp would be easier to handle when
using a tablet. I say that because I have always used trackballs and
tablets. I do not like mice, and I abhor trackpads. I can use all of
the above but my absolute favourite is a Wacom tablet with their
mouse. Why their mouse? Well, I am glad you asked. If one moves an
ordinary mouse to create, say, a vertical (on screen visual of
vertical) motion, an ordinary mouse must be pointed perfectly into
that direction. The Wacom mouse can be held sideways, pointing towards
or away from you, it will still give you a vertical movement if you
move it vertically.
I use a Intuos Medium (http://www.wacom.com/intuos/medium.php) every
day and have a Wacom Graphite installed on another computer.
The Bamboo ones I'm told, are quite capable and fun.
Rotaboy, while I've been doing CAD work (AutoCad, SolidWorks, Invetor,
Revit, Civil3D etc.) for over 35 years, I don't know what you mean about
your mouse having to be pointed vertical. Right now I'm using a generic,
inexpensive optical mouse with a wheel. To draw a vertical line in any of
the programs above I simply slide the mouse vertically. The angle at which
I hold the mouse does not seem to matter one iota!!
Please elaborate on what you mean. I haven't run SketchUp for about a year
and I have not tried that one.
Ivan Vegvary
On Fri, 07 May 2010 16:11:30 -0400, "J. Clarke"
<[email protected]> wrote the following:
>On 5/7/2010 2:18 PM, basilisk wrote:
>> It took a while to get weened off my trackball, but that Wacom Intuos
>> tablet/pen/mouse combo is awful hard to surpass.
>
>Have you seen a Wacom Cintiq? If I ever hit the lotto . . .
That Wacom Cintuq 21UX has a FESTERING price, doesn't it?
--
Live forever or die in the attempt.
-- Joseph Heller, Catch 22
On 5/7/2010 6:00 PM, Paul Franklin wrote:
> On Fri, 7 May 2010 08:40:46 -0500, "Leon"<[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> "gray asphalt"<[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> Read some where that special 3D mice are great for
>>> CAD stuff. What say you?
>>>
>>>
>>
>> IIRC there is the "Space Navagator" that gets good reviews but I have not
>> used it.. IIRC it does not replace the mouse rather it suppliments the
>> mouse.
>>
>> I cannot stand using a mouse for anything, I hate all the wrist movement,
>> picking up, sliding, picking up, sliding etc.
>>
>> I have have been very happy with thumb operated track balls for 20+ years.
>>
> I use the 3DConnexion Space Navigator with Sketchup. Lets me really
> fly. I drive it with my left hand to handle zooming and xyz
> positioning and use the right hand and 5 button scroll wheel mouse to
> do the actual drawing. The CAD guys at work are adept at using one
> hand on the keyboard and the other with the mouse or tablet, and they
> can move really quick too. But I just found the SN to be quite
> intuitive and fast to get used to.
I've had an eye on the Space Navigator for awhile, just never got a
chance to check it out personally since retailers are so sparse in this
neck of the woods.
I keep hearing good things about it and it makes sense to do panning,
zooming and orbiting with one hand while drawing with the other. May
have to give it a try.
Thanks ...
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)
On Fri, 07 May 2010 10:20:39 -0400, "J. Clarke"
<[email protected]> wrote the following:
>On 5/7/2010 9:40 AM, Leon wrote:
>> "gray asphalt"<[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> Read some where that special 3D mice are great for
>>> CAD stuff. What say you?
>>>
>>>
>>
>> IIRC there is the "Space Navagator" that gets good reviews but I have not
>> used it.. IIRC it does not replace the mouse rather it suppliments the
>> mouse.
>>
>> I cannot stand using a mouse for anything, I hate all the wrist movement,
>> picking up, sliding, picking up, sliding etc.
>>
>> I have have been very happy with thumb operated track balls for 20+ years.
>
>In any case, they are only useful if your application supports them.
>Does Sketchup?
SU v7 happily accepts my Trackman Portable. I just ordered a finger
trackball from Hong Kong. It's USB.
--
Live forever or die in the attempt.
-- Joseph Heller, Catch 22
On 5/7/2010 11:07 AM, [email protected] wrote:
> Shouldn't be much wrist movement. Except for gross, across-the page
> movements, mice should be moved with the fingers. I use my forearm
> for gross movements. Not much, if any, wrist movement at all.
Yabbut, you happen to be in a woodworking forum ... not everyone will
have all the necessary digits to operate a mouse like that.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)
On Fri, 7 May 2010 16:25:14 -0500, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
><[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:a88cf269-7731-4a1b-8629-cd6030ddef6d@k19g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
>On May 7, 8:40 am, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> "gray asphalt" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>
>> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> > Read some where that special 3D mice are great for
>> > CAD stuff. What say you?
>>
>> IIRC there is the "Space Navagator" that gets good reviews but I have not
>> used it.. IIRC it does not replace the mouse rather it suppliments the
>> mouse.
>>
>> I cannot stand using a mouse for anything, I hate all the wrist movement,
>> picking up, sliding, picking up, sliding etc.
>>
>> I have have been very happy with thumb operated track balls for 20+ years.
>
>Shouldn't be much wrist movement. Except for gross, across-the page
>movements, mice should be moved with the fingers. I use my forearm
>for gross movements. Not much, if any, wrist movement at all.
>
>To add a little extra here, there is actually a lot of mouse movement when
>orbiting of moving across an object that is many times larger than a 23"
>screen, when you are zoomed in working on details.
>
That movement comes from the arm, though. The wrist should be pretty
inflexible. Wild movements of the wrist are just asking for pain.
On Fri, 7 May 2010 13:18:42 -0500, "basilisk" <[email protected]>
wrote the following:
>
>"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:f15ae3e5-a082-4301-9aef-aaae5a058efe@r11g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
>On May 7, 12:36 pm, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On 5/6/2010 7:59 PM, gray asphalt wrote:
>>
>> > Read some where that special 3D mice are great for
>> > CAD stuff. What say you?
>>
>> The minimum for Sketchup is reckoned to be a two button mouse with
>> wheel, which is all I use with SU (LogiTech wireless laser); and I'm a
>> pretty heavy user, often rendering an entire house from scratch off a
>> full set of architectural and structural drawings, from foundation to
>> cross sections, for bidding purposes.
>>
>> After that it's really a matter of personal preference.
>>
>> That said, I'm certainly interested in any supported device that would
>> make the job easier.
>>
>> --www.e-woodshop.net
>> Last update: 4/15/2010
>> KarlC@ (the obvious)
>
>It took a while to get weened off my trackball, but that Wacom Intuos
>tablet/pen/mouse combo is awful hard to surpass. I would have no idea
>how that concept could be improved upon, yet still, I miss the
>'ballistic' feature of sending a pointer across the diagonal of a 30"
>screen with a mere flick of the wrist of a trackball.
>I do, however, like the medium size tablet the best. The big ones are
>just too cumbersome and I'm no artist where I need to have that much
>real estate. (They're also stupid money.) The small tablet is just
>that... small. Not quite enough fine movement ability.
>Henceforth, the Medium winneth.
6x9" here.
>The Wacom Medium Intuos is the Festool of input devices... there... I
>said it. (It is one of those deals where you didn't know what you
>didn't know till you used one and then wondered how you ever built a
>house without one...okay, I embellish..)
>
>Don't ever spill anything on a Wacom tablet :(
I have their older Art Z II tablet but don't use it much any more
since I'm not doing much Photoshop work lately. I'll have to try it
with SU on the new computer sometime soon.
--
Live forever or die in the attempt.
-- Joseph Heller, Catch 22
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
Snip
>
> I keep hearing good things about it and it makes sense to do panning,
> zooming and orbiting with one hand while drawing with the other. May have
> to give it a try.
>
> Thanks ...
Working a control with the left and right hand sounds tricky,,, a lot like
playing domino's and winning.
On Sat, 08 May 2010 10:38:08 -0500, "[email protected]"
<[email protected]> wrote the following:
>On Sat, 08 May 2010 08:00:29 -0700, Larry Jaques <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 07 May 2010 19:38:20 -0500, "[email protected]"
>><[email protected]> wrote the following:
>>
>>>On Fri, 7 May 2010 16:25:14 -0500, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>><[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>>news:a88cf269-7731-4a1b-8629-cd6030ddef6d@k19g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
>>>>On May 7, 8:40 am, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>> "gray asphalt" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>>>
>>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>>
>>>>> > Read some where that special 3D mice are great for
>>>>> > CAD stuff. What say you?
>>>>>
>>>>> IIRC there is the "Space Navagator" that gets good reviews but I have not
>>>>> used it.. IIRC it does not replace the mouse rather it suppliments the
>>>>> mouse.
>>>>>
>>>>> I cannot stand using a mouse for anything, I hate all the wrist movement,
>>>>> picking up, sliding, picking up, sliding etc.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have have been very happy with thumb operated track balls for 20+ years.
>>>>
>>>>Shouldn't be much wrist movement. Except for gross, across-the page
>>>>movements, mice should be moved with the fingers. I use my forearm
>>>>for gross movements. Not much, if any, wrist movement at all.
>>>>
>>>>To add a little extra here, there is actually a lot of mouse movement when
>>>>orbiting of moving across an object that is many times larger than a 23"
>>>>screen, when you are zoomed in working on details.
>>>>
>>>That movement comes from the arm, though. The wrist should be pretty
>>>inflexible. Wild movements of the wrist are just asking for pain.
>>
>>Minute movements of the wrist cause pain. It's the mere lifting of the
>>fingers and/or the wrist which engages the overstimulated carpal sheaf
>>nerves.
>
>Once the sheath is inflamed, yes. The cause was funky wrist (and finger)
>movement. Keep the wrists straight and the fingers can move freely.
With your arm on the desk, your hand has to elevate to get onto the
mouse, bending your wrist. Once your wrist is bent, moving your
fingers irritates the nerves.
>>And the lifting of the entire arm to move the forearm with a mouse can
>>cause the shoulder and/or back muscles to spasm in some folks.
>
>Why would you *lift* the mouse?
To move your forearm, you lift your ARM, duuuuuuude. I didn't say
anything about lifting the mouse.
>Just slide the arm. How do you move the
>mouse (large distances) "vertically" without moving the arm? Just do the same
>for lateral movements. Keep the wrist straight.
The mouse lifts your hand off the table, angling your wrist, unless
you either use A) an arm lift, B) a mouse depression in the desk, or
C) lift your entire arm each time. Which is it?
>>BTDT to a very mild extent with both. Moved to a trackball and haven't
>>looked back. No surgery needed and no pain now, -except- when I use a
>>mouse for a couple hours. I decided to bypass the pain by moving away
>>from a mouse as soon as I had determined that it was the culprit.
>
>I'm exactly the opposite. No trackballs for me! Oh, the pain...
I didn't say to use a regular trackball, which doesn't help at all and
may increase the stresses. I specified those with thumb-activated
balls and gave a list. Try one of those.
--
Live forever or die in the attempt.
-- Joseph Heller, Catch 22
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:a88cf269-7731-4a1b-8629-cd6030ddef6d@k19g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
On May 7, 8:40 am, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "gray asphalt" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...
>
> > Read some where that special 3D mice are great for
> > CAD stuff. What say you?
>
> IIRC there is the "Space Navagator" that gets good reviews but I have not
> used it.. IIRC it does not replace the mouse rather it suppliments the
> mouse.
>
> I cannot stand using a mouse for anything, I hate all the wrist movement,
> picking up, sliding, picking up, sliding etc.
>
> I have have been very happy with thumb operated track balls for 20+ years.
Shouldn't be much wrist movement. Except for gross, across-the page
movements, mice should be moved with the fingers. I use my forearm
for gross movements. Not much, if any, wrist movement at all.
To add a little extra here, there is actually a lot of mouse movement when
orbiting of moving across an object that is many times larger than a 23"
screen, when you are zoomed in working on details.