Went to the local HD yesterday to pick up a bunch of sandpaper and a few
5/16" and 3/8" bolts I needed. Found what I wanted and decided to speed
things up by going to the self-checkout line. Bad move.
The sandpaper scanned fine, but I was at a loss how to deal with the bolts.
4 @ $0.13 and 4 @ $.14, IIRC. No bar code, no obvious way to enter them
into the system. I futzed around a bit while several sales droid types
hung out and observed the chaos.
Eventually, I found a screen that said something like "press here to summon
help", which I did. Still no assistance from the droids was forthcomming.
Finally, in desperation, I just dropped the bolts into my bag, which
immediately generated a message that the weight of my bag didn't match what
I had scanned, and that I should remove the extra items from the bag.
Still no assistance-droids.
Some more futzing, and the machine prompted me to swipe my credit card. A
droid came over, helpfully showed me how to swipe it, and watched me
complete the transaction.
Sigh. I walked out the door with my $11 or so worth of paid-for sandpaper,
plus (by my calculations), $1.08 worth of hex-head bolts, shamelessly
absconded with. What's a customer to do?
Should have read, "told her as I had told the employee that if they thought
I had stolen something to call the police."
Sorry bout that.
John
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> John Emmons wrote:
> > Heehee...I did the same thing at a Home Depot once, called the manager
and
> > asked him why he wasn't running one of the cash registers since the
lines
> > weren't moving and there were no cashiers to be found, amazingly, after
I
> > hung up, he found some employees to put to work.
> >
> > One other time I called and asked the manager on-duty why she had
someone
> > who was basically incompetent stopping every customer at the door and
> > demanding to see their reciepts, told her as I had told the employee
that I
> > thought I had stolen something to call the police.
>
> You had told the employee that you thought you had stolen something?
>
> Why?
>
> I asked a _competent_ employee why they were checking receipts
> on the way out. He explained that sometimes people will buy something,
> take it home, them bring back the receipt and try to walk out with a
> second item. The person at the door is supposed to be checking the
> TIME and DATE on the receipt to verify that it was just issued.
>
> --
>
> FF
>
In article <[email protected]>, Larry Blanchard
<[email protected]> wrote:
> Here's to the brew you can't see through,
> Black as a witch's cat.
> If the porter runs out I'll switch to stout,
> Straight from the brewers tap.
I'll drink to that.
Happy Birthday, Larry!
"Roy Smith" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Went to the local HD yesterday to pick up a bunch of sandpaper and a few
> 5/16" and 3/8" bolts I needed. Found what I wanted and decided to speed
> things up by going to the self-checkout line. Bad move.
>
> The sandpaper scanned fine, but I was at a loss how to deal with the
> bolts.
> 4 @ $0.13 and 4 @ $.14, IIRC. No bar code, no obvious way to enter them
> into the system. I futzed around a bit while several sales droid types
> hung out and observed the chaos.
>
> Eventually, I found a screen that said something like "press here to
> summon
> help", which I did. Still no assistance from the droids was forthcomming.
> Finally, in desperation, I just dropped the bolts into my bag, which
> immediately generated a message that the weight of my bag didn't match
> what
> I had scanned, and that I should remove the extra items from the bag.
> Still no assistance-droids.
>
> Some more futzing, and the machine prompted me to swipe my credit card. A
> droid came over, helpfully showed me how to swipe it, and watched me
> complete the transaction.
>
> Sigh. I walked out the door with my $11 or so worth of paid-for
> sandpaper,
> plus (by my calculations), $1.08 worth of hex-head bolts, shamelessly
> absconded with. What's a customer to do?
Pay them - on your next visit. Next time, ask for help or better yet, shop
at a place that has better customer service.
Dave
Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
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I have done this three times at both Lowes and HD. Hollar at the top of
your voice, "Your stupid machine does not work." I guarantee, you will
get their attention and some service. The short embarrasment on you
part is well worth seeing their shocked faces. Since everybody knows
that what you said is true, they all laugh with you, not at you.
Bill in WNC mountains
In article <[email protected]>, David
<[email protected]> wrote:
> They also check everyone's basket, not just spot checks. Therefore, I
> don't feel singled out at Costco. Besides, the prices are so good, I'm
> not gonna complain about them checking baskets at the exit...
Walmart here in S'toon only checks items that aren't bagged, ie larger
items in the cart. If the checker is right there, I don't mind the 2.5
seconds it takes to smile, say hello, and show her the receipt that has
the item highlighted by the checkout clerk, but if she's busy checking
someone else I just walk out the door (I'm certainly not going to queue
for them) and have never been chased after.
Brian Henderson wrote:
> On 13 May 2006 10:35:50 -0700, [email protected] wrote:
>
> >Regardless of whether or not the person is oblidged to stop the
> >notion that _reasonable_ suspicion must be based on _proof_
> >is just plain wrong. It must be based on evidence, but that
> >evidence may fall short of proof.
>
> The courts have ruled that having the alarm go off is not sufficient
> evidence of anything and won't stand up in court regardless. Ask the
> security people in a store and they won't bother stopping someone
> going through the door with an alarm, they know what the level of
> evidence they have to take to court is, and that ain't it.
The continous reduction of value added services and the unyeilding
increases in prices and profits are no excuse to walk away with 25
cents worth of metal goods marked up to $1.08.
You are expected to take the place of the cashier at no charge to the
company and above all do nothing to prevent the company from growing
and meeting its sales targets and showing stellar profits.
Your time and expertise is worth nothing - knave!
I can't figure out why you go there and then complain.
It's your duty for heavens sake!
Get with the program!
Bob
On Thu, 11 May 2006 17:48:17 -0700, David <[email protected]> wrote:
>I got a wallet for Christmas a couple years back that set off the alarms
>at EVERY store I entered and exited. I looked through the wallet for a
>tag and failed to find it until I got really creative in my search. It
>was WELL hidden and very tiny. Now I have peace and quiet as I go
>through the entrances.
Heh, for the longest time we had one of those plastic security tags on
a portable stroller that nobody had a tool to take off and doing it
otherwise would tear the fabric and ruin the stroller so we just set
off alarms going into and out of a lot of stores. It was as
interesting to see which ones weren't going off as it was to see which
ones were.
It must have been a year or so before we found someone who could
actually take it off, I guess it was an old system or something.
On Thu, 11 May 2006 15:35:59 -0500, nanook <[email protected]> wrote:
>this may be true, BUT, chances are if you take something back and
>there is no mark on it from the door checker, they're not likely to
>allow you to return the material.
They can't legally do that either and what's to stop you from going
home and putting on your own highlighter mark? So long as you have a
receipt, they are obligated, under the law, to treat you equally or
they open themselves to a major lawsuit.
>Here lately, WalMart has really backed off in our area, they just like
>to check the carts that are carrying oversized items that are not
>bagged.
Walmart has gotten sued a lot over this, my local store just has an
old guy sitting by the door in case the alarm goes off, they don't
even pretend to check receipts. There is one Walmart that I used to
have to go into to get things for work where the little old lady at
the door would literally chase you out into the parking lot screaching
at the top of her lungs.
>personally, i stop, not because i am a sheeple, more to the fact that
>stealing affects all of us in the long run.
If you're not stealing, what difference does it make? And you think
the people who are stealing are going to stop?
[email protected] wrote:
> On Thu, 11 May 2006 08:37:32 -0700, David <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>Rephrase your statement to "Are you ACCUSING me of stealing something
>
>>from your store?". Do this with witnesses in the immediate area...
>
>>Dave
>
> Costco and Sams frame the request in a light that they are making sure
> they didn't charge you for something you didn't get.
They also check everyone's basket, not just spot checks. Therefore, I
don't feel singled out at Costco. Besides, the prices are so good, I'm
not gonna complain about them checking baskets at the exit...
dave
On 13 May 2006 10:35:50 -0700, [email protected] wrote:
>Regardless of whether or not the person is oblidged to stop the
>notion that _reasonable_ suspicion must be based on _proof_
>is just plain wrong. It must be based on evidence, but that
>evidence may fall short of proof.
The courts have ruled that having the alarm go off is not sufficient
evidence of anything and won't stand up in court regardless. Ask the
security people in a store and they won't bother stopping someone
going through the door with an alarm, they know what the level of
evidence they have to take to court is, and that ain't it.
In article <[email protected]>,
Brian Henderson <[email protected]> wrote:
> so we just set
> off alarms going into and out of a lot of stores. It was as
> interesting to see which ones weren't going off as it was to see which
> ones were.
In my experience, those store (and library) alarms draw as much
attention from "official" store personnel as do neighborhood car alarms.
--
Owen Lowe
The Fly-by-Night Copper Company
__________
"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the
Corporate States of America and to the
Republicans for which it stands, one nation,
under debt, easily divisible, with liberty
and justice for oil."
- Wiley Miller, Non Sequitur, 1/24/05
On Thu, 11 May 2006 08:37:32 -0700, David <[email protected]> wrote:
>Rephrase your statement to "Are you ACCUSING me of stealing something
>from your store?". Do this with witnesses in the immediate area...
>
>Dave
Costco and Sams frame the request in a light that they are making sure
they didn't charge you for something you didn't get.
On 13 May 2006 10:25:51 -0700, [email protected] wrote:
>Regardless, if you've ever tried to remove one of those damn magnetic
>lock thingies yourself you'll probably decide it is well worth your
>while to turn around at th edoor and go back to get it taken care of.
Which ones, the stick-on ones that they put inside DVDs and the like?
They just peel off. It's the big plastic things that you have to have
a special tool to remove that are a pain in the backside to get off
without damaging your merchandise. Most stores are pretty careful
about removing those since they re-use them. It's the little ones
that are the ones that set off most alarms because the employees don't
bother to deactivate them.
> If I were you I would just go back and pay.
I was at the local Napa today to get an airfilter, and told the guy
that I owed the store $1.26 for a couple of plastic license plate nuts
and machine screws. He remembered the transaction, said thanks for
coming back to pay, and looked genuinely pleased to have had me come
in. That's just gravy for me. The real payoff is the satisfaction and
peace of mind I get from doing the right thing.
JP
*****************************
The soapbox is yours.
John Emmons :
>> Once I pay for something, I own the
>>property. No one has the legal right to search my belongings without
>>reasonable suspicion that I've done something illegal. If the police can't
>>do it, I doubt very seriously that a drone working for WalMart or Home
>>Depot
>>can.
>
Robert Bonomi :
> You are, quite simply, wrong. There is *lots* of case-law on that point.
>
John Emmons :
>>When I say that they "can't" obviously if they're willing to make it into
>>a
>>physical confrontation they can, but not legally and certainly not without
>>my sueing them and winning and possibly filing criminal charges against
>>them
>>for battery.
Robert Bonomi :
> "one thousand percent" wrong.
>
John Emmons :
>>Stores and their employee's don't enjoy any more legal rights to search or
>>detain citizens than any other business.
>
Robert Bonomi :
> *IF* they have notice prominently posted where you see it upon _entry_ to
> the
> store, they _do_ have the *legal*right* to do so.
>
> They have made it a condition of entry onto the premises -- their
> _private_
> _property_ -- and you have *agreed* to that condition by entering the
> premises.
>
> The stores that have gotten "in trouble" over the matter have had trouble
> _because_ of 'defects' in the posted notice. e.g. 'not sufficiently
> visible'.
What case law? I have not seen one sign, anywhere, that advises me that the
store may detain and inspect my property upon completion of the sale and
prior to my exiting the premises. Fry's, Home Depot, Best Buy and Costco
all have lemmings lined up to have their stuff pawed over by a snot nosed
teenager or some menacing guard. Me, I just say excuse me and walk out the
door.
Dave
Roy Smith wrote:
>
> ...
>
> Sigh. I walked out the door with my $11 or so worth of paid-for sandpaper,
> plus (by my calculations), $1.08 worth of hex-head bolts, shamelessly
> absconded with. What's a customer to do?
What *I* did, in a very similar situation at Home Depot was go
somewhere
else to buy what I needed, leaving the merchandise at the checkout
station.
The next time I was there, the 'self service; checkout stations were
gone.
They've come back now, but only a couple of them with an adequate
number of real people who can check our items priced by quanity.
Like lumber, for example.
--
FF
John Emmons wrote:
> Heehee...I did the same thing at a Home Depot once, called the manager and
> asked him why he wasn't running one of the cash registers since the lines
> weren't moving and there were no cashiers to be found, amazingly, after I
> hung up, he found some employees to put to work.
>
> One other time I called and asked the manager on-duty why she had someone
> who was basically incompetent stopping every customer at the door and
> demanding to see their reciepts, told her as I had told the employee that I
> thought I had stolen something to call the police.
You had told the employee that you thought you had stolen something?
Why?
I asked a _competent_ employee why they were checking receipts
on the way out. He explained that sometimes people will buy something,
take it home, them bring back the receipt and try to walk out with a
second item. The person at the door is supposed to be checking the
TIME and DATE on the receipt to verify that it was just issued.
--
FF
Jay Pique wrote:
> > If I were you I would just go back and pay.
>
> I was at the local Napa today to get an airfilter, and told the guy
> that I owed the store $1.26 for a couple of plastic license plate nuts
> and machine screws. He remembered the transaction, said thanks for
> coming back to pay, and looked genuinely pleased to have had me come
> in. That's just gravy for me. The real payoff is the satisfaction and
> peace of mind I get from doing the right thing.
>
Hopefully that makes up for the frustration you feel when you
discover that the NAPA parts don't fit your car....
Leastways, they usually did not fit mine.
--
FF
Brian Henderson wrote:
> On Thu, 11 May 2006 02:37:24 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >Reasonable suspicion is the sirens going off from the magnetic strip on some
> >packages. First time it happened, I did stop, but raised hell with the
> >manager because of the incompetence of the cashier that did not deactivate
> >it.
>
> Nope, that's not even reasonable suspicion. Their security team has
> to have proof that you stole something (ie. you on video doing it).
> The alarms at the doors are largely a deterrent, not a way to catch
> people. You have zero obligation to stop.
Regardless, if you've ever tried to remove one of those damn magnetic
lock thingies yourself you'll probably decide it is well worth your
while
to turn around at th edoor and go back to get it taken care of.
--
FF
George Shouse wrote:
> Really?
>
> http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/constitution.billofrights.html#amendmentiv
>
> I believe that something I own is covered under "effects".
>
> On Thu, 11 May 2006 02:14:30 GMT, "Al" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >They can legaly check your bags/carts from the store and verify your receipt
> >at least in Oregon. Never had HD or Lowes do it mostly Frys Electronics and
> >Walmart.
> >
> >
> >Al
> >
> >
> >"Brian Henderson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >news:[email protected]...
> >> On Wed, 10 May 2006 04:32:54 GMT, "John Emmons"
> >> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >>>One other time I called and asked the manager on-duty why she had someone
> >>>who was basically incompetent stopping every customer at the door and
> >>>demanding to see their reciepts, told her as I had told the employee that
> >>>I
> >>>thought I had stolen something to call the police.
> >>>
> >>>I refuse to stop and have my belongings gone thru by drones.
> >>
> >> You have absolutely no legal obligation to do so and shouldn't. Once
> >> you purchase something and they take your payment, you own the item
> >> and have no obligation whatsoever to show it to anyone, any more than
> >> you can demand the drone empty their pockets for you.
> >>
> >> I've had some of them being very insistant, but I ignore them. It's
> >> funny to see some of them running out into the parking lot after me
> >> yelling "I have to see your receipt".
> >>
> >> No you don't. You *WANT* to see it, you don't have to.
> >>
> >> Wal-mart has gotten sued over this and has lost every time. They have
> >> no right whatsoever to demand to see anything. They can ask, you can
> >> decline. They cannot stop you and frankly, I'd love to see one of
> >> them try, my lawyer wouldn't mind picking up some free and easy money
> >> for me.
> >
It becomes necessary to determine when it is that ownership
of the merchandise changes from the store to the customer.
One would naively su[ppose that happens as soon as the money
changes hands but ISTR that in most states it actuall happens
when the merchandise passes through the door. I guess you
money is still yours up to that point too.
Of course this has nothing to do with your effects that you brought
with you to the store.
And of course the Bill of Rights directly restricts government action,
not private action. Private action is restricted by a number of
indirect appraoches, mostly via the ICC and the 14th amendment.
--
FF
Brian Henderson wrote:
> On Thu, 11 May 2006 02:37:24 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >Reasonable suspicion is the sirens going off from the magnetic strip on some
> >packages. First time it happened, I did stop, but raised hell with the
> >manager because of the incompetence of the cashier that did not deactivate
> >it.
>
> Nope, that's not even reasonable suspicion. Their security team has
> to have proof that you stole something (ie. you on video doing it).
> The alarms at the doors are largely a deterrent, not a way to catch
> people. You have zero obligation to stop.
Regardless of whether or not the person is oblidged to stop the
notion that _reasonable_ suspicion must be based on _proof_
is just plain wrong. It must be based on evidence, but that
evidence may fall short of proof.
--
FF
TeamCasa wrote:
> "Roy Smith" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Went to the local HD yesterday to pick up a bunch of sandpaper and a few
> > 5/16" and 3/8" bolts I needed. Found what I wanted and decided to speed
> > things up by going to the self-checkout line. Bad move.
> >
> > The sandpaper scanned fine, but I was at a loss how to deal with the
> > bolts.
> > 4 @ $0.13 and 4 @ $.14, IIRC. No bar code, no obvious way to enter them
> > into the system. I futzed around a bit while several sales droid types
> > hung out and observed the chaos.
> >
> > Eventually, I found a screen that said something like "press here to
> > summon
> > help", which I did. Still no assistance from the droids was forthcomming.
> > Finally, in desperation, I just dropped the bolts into my bag, which
> > immediately generated a message that the weight of my bag didn't match
> > what
> > I had scanned, and that I should remove the extra items from the bag.
> > Still no assistance-droids.
> >
> > Some more futzing, and the machine prompted me to swipe my credit card. A
> > droid came over, helpfully showed me how to swipe it, and watched me
> > complete the transaction.
> >
> > Sigh. I walked out the door with my $11 or so worth of paid-for
> > sandpaper,
> > plus (by my calculations), $1.08 worth of hex-head bolts, shamelessly
> > absconded with. What's a customer to do?
>
> Pay them - on your next visit. Next time, ask for help or better yet, shop
> at a place that has better customer service.
> Dave
Do not I repeat do not pay the next time you go in you will be arrested
for theft if you tell them, have herd of it happen before.
>> "Roy Smith"snip
>> > Sigh. I walked out the door with my $11 or so worth of paid-for
>> > sandpaper,
>> > plus (by my calculations), $1.08 worth of hex-head bolts, shamelessly
>> > absconded with. What's a customer to do?
>>
>> TeamCasa wrote:
>> Pay them - on your next visit. Next time, ask for help or better yet,
>> shop
>> at a place that has better customer service.
>> Dave
> redice said,
> Do not I repeat do not pay the next time you go in you will be arrested
> for theft if you tell them, have herd of it happen before.
>
Nonsense.
No business will have you arrested for paying for a product!
"Officer, arrest that man! He's paying for something!"
Dave
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Teamcasa wrote:
> >> "Roy Smith"snip
> >> > Sigh. I walked out the door with my $11 or so worth of paid-for
> >> > sandpaper,
> >> > plus (by my calculations), $1.08 worth of hex-head bolts, shamelessly
> >> > absconded with. What's a customer to do?
> >>
> >> TeamCasa wrote:
> >> Pay them - on your next visit. Next time, ask for help or better yet,
> >> shop
> >> at a place that has better customer service.
> >> Dave
>
> > redice said,
> > Do not I repeat do not pay the next time you go in you will be arrested
> > for theft if you tell them, have herd of it happen before.
> >
> Nonsense.
> No business will have you arrested for paying for a product!
> "Officer, arrest that man! He's paying for something!"
>
It may seem like there is a fine line between telling the manager,
I stole these last week but wan tto pay for them now, and
I got home and saw from the receipt that I hadn't paid for these
and want to pay for them now.
But the former is admitting to a crime while the latter stops
short of that and simply acknowledges that he owes the
store some money.
A third option is to carry them in and simply go through the
check-out counter and pay for them without saying anything,
which I think is what the advice suggested.
--
FF
I was once given about thirty dollars of pipe by a Home Desperate manager.
I went in and bought four, ten-foot lengths of pipe for pipe clamps, had
them cut into three pieces (2, 3 and 5-feet long), and threaded on both ends
of all the peices. They give you one threading for free, and charge for any
more. The drone in plumbing didn't know how to write up the ticket for the
extra cuts and threading, so we walked up front to talk to someone else, who
also had no clue. They called another cluless droid, who called another,
who called another, who called another... ...over the course of twenty
minutes every droid in the store had come up and tried something but none of
their somethings had worked. Finally the manager came up front to see what
all the calls were about. He tried a couple of things, neither of which
worked. Finally he looked over at me and asked, "How long have you been
standing here while we have been trying to figure this out?"
When I told him it was pushing a half hour, he told me he was sorry for my
inconveniance, and to take the pipe and leave. I was back in the store a
week later, and there were prices and codes for the extra cut and thread
fees posted next to the machines.
I thought about writing a letter to corporate, to let them know how much I
appreciated being treated right, but thought better of it. I figure they
would probably fire him for it.
Jay Pique wrote:
>
> I was at the local Napa today to get an airfilter, and told the guy
> that I owed the store $1.26 for a couple of plastic license plate nuts
> and machine screws. He remembered the transaction, said thanks for
> coming back to pay, and looked genuinely pleased to have had me come
> in. That's just gravy for me. The real payoff is the satisfaction
> and peace of mind I get from doing the right thing.
>
Sonce today was my birthday (69) I went for a nice lunch at a local
microbrewery. Along with a very good fettucine with portobello
mushrooms and chunks of prime rib, I had a pint of stout and a pint of
dunkel. They forgot to charge for the stout. I told the waitress I
wasn't going to cheat someone on my birthday, and she said the stout
would be a birthday present. Good feelings all around.
BTW, the pints inspired me to compose the following bit of verse.
Here's to the brew you can't see through,
Black as a witch's cat.
If the porter runs out I'll switch to stout,
Straight from the brewers tap.
--
It's turtles, all the way down
In article <[email protected]>,
John Emmons <[email protected]> wrote:
>I find that very hard to believe.
You, sir, "don't know what you don't know."
> Once I pay for something, I own the
>property. No one has the legal right to search my belongings without
>reasonable suspicion that I've done something illegal. If the police can't
>do it, I doubt very seriously that a drone working for WalMart or Home Depot
>can.
You are, quite simply, _wrong_.
There is *lots* of case-law on that point.
>When I say that they "can't" obviously if they're willing to make it into a
>physical confrontation they can, but not legally and certainly not without
>my sueing them and winning and possibly filing criminal charges against them
>for battery.
"one thousand percent" wrong.
>Stores and their employee's don't enjoy any more legal rights to search or
>detain citizens than any other business.
*IF* they have notice prominently posted where you see it upon _entry_ to the
store, they _do_ have the *legal*right* to do so.
They have made it a condition of entry onto the premises -- their _private_
_property_ -- and you have *agreed* to that condition by entering the
premises.
The stores that have gotten "in trouble" over the matter have had trouble
_because_ of 'defects' in the posted notice. e.g. 'not sufficiently visible'.
I find that very hard to believe. Once I pay for something, I own the
property. No one has the legal right to search my belongings without
reasonable suspicion that I've done something illegal. If the police can't
do it, I doubt very seriously that a drone working for WalMart or Home Depot
can.
When I say that they "can't" obviously if they're willing to make it into a
physical confrontation they can, but not legally and certainly not without
my sueing them and winning and possibly filing criminal charges against them
for battery.
Stores and their employee's don't enjoy any more legal rights to search or
detain citizens than any other business.
John
"Al" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> They can legaly check your bags/carts from the store and verify your
receipt
> at least in Oregon. Never had HD or Lowes do it mostly Frys Electronics
and
> Walmart.
>
>
> Al
>
>
> "Brian Henderson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > On Wed, 10 May 2006 04:32:54 GMT, "John Emmons"
> > <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >>One other time I called and asked the manager on-duty why she had
someone
> >>who was basically incompetent stopping every customer at the door and
> >>demanding to see their reciepts, told her as I had told the employee
that
> >>I
> >>thought I had stolen something to call the police.
> >>
> >>I refuse to stop and have my belongings gone thru by drones.
> >
> > You have absolutely no legal obligation to do so and shouldn't. Once
> > you purchase something and they take your payment, you own the item
> > and have no obligation whatsoever to show it to anyone, any more than
> > you can demand the drone empty their pockets for you.
> >
> > I've had some of them being very insistant, but I ignore them. It's
> > funny to see some of them running out into the parking lot after me
> > yelling "I have to see your receipt".
> >
> > No you don't. You *WANT* to see it, you don't have to.
> >
> > Wal-mart has gotten sued over this and has lost every time. They have
> > no right whatsoever to demand to see anything. They can ask, you can
> > decline. They cannot stop you and frankly, I'd love to see one of
> > them try, my lawyer wouldn't mind picking up some free and easy money
> > for me.
>
>
On Wed, 10 May 2006 04:32:54 GMT, "John Emmons"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>One other time I called and asked the manager on-duty why she had someone
>who was basically incompetent stopping every customer at the door and
>demanding to see their reciepts, told her as I had told the employee that I
>thought I had stolen something to call the police.
>
>I refuse to stop and have my belongings gone thru by drones.
You have absolutely no legal obligation to do so and shouldn't. Once
you purchase something and they take your payment, you own the item
and have no obligation whatsoever to show it to anyone, any more than
you can demand the drone empty their pockets for you.
I've had some of them being very insistant, but I ignore them. It's
funny to see some of them running out into the parking lot after me
yelling "I have to see your receipt".
No you don't. You *WANT* to see it, you don't have to.
Wal-mart has gotten sued over this and has lost every time. They have
no right whatsoever to demand to see anything. They can ask, you can
decline. They cannot stop you and frankly, I'd love to see one of
them try, my lawyer wouldn't mind picking up some free and easy money
for me.
By Thu, 11 May 2006 15:01:25 -0600, Dave Balderstone
<dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_Sbalderstone.ca> decided to post
"Re: I stole from Home Depot!" to rec.woodworking:
>In article <[email protected]>, David
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> They also check everyone's basket, not just spot checks. Therefore, I
>> don't feel singled out at Costco. Besides, the prices are so good, I'm
>> not gonna complain about them checking baskets at the exit...
>
>Walmart here in S'toon only checks items that aren't bagged, ie larger
>items in the cart. If the checker is right there, I don't mind the 2.5
>seconds it takes to smile, say hello, and show her the receipt that has
>the item highlighted by the checkout clerk, but if she's busy checking
>someone else I just walk out the door (I'm certainly not going to queue
>for them) and have never been chased after.
Keep on supporting the chinese military by shopping at Walmart with the
other sheep. They will soon be YOUR overlords. Please try not to piss
them off....
/..
--
find / -iname "*gw*" -exec rm -rf {} \;
In heaven, there is no beer,
That's why we drink it here,
And when we're all gone from here,
Our friends will be drinking all the beer!
-- Famous old Czech song about beer --
Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
> Reasonable suspicion is the sirens going off from the magnetic strip on
> some
> packages. First time it happened, I did stop, but raised hell with the
> manager because of the incompetence of the cashier that did not deactivate
> it.
>
> Another time, the cashier was not able to get to it on a large item so she
> said she'd just wave me on at the door. What she did not know was the
> device came of easily and I stuck it on the bottom of the cart for the
> next user.
Those things are great, you here them all the time at Home Depot and Lowe's
"Beep Pardon us but we failed to remove the inventory control tag"
Of course the inventory control is done by scanning the bar code, but
anti-theft sounds more negative than inventory control.
When I was in college a guy in my class used to spend many an evening in
Best Buy peeling those tags off of merchandise and carefully placing them
stick side up on the floor where they would be stepped on and get stuck to
someone's shoe so they would set off the alarm when they tried to exit the
building.
Really?
http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/constitution.billofrights.html#amendmentiv
I believe that something I own is covered under "effects".
On Thu, 11 May 2006 02:14:30 GMT, "Al" <[email protected]> wrote:
>They can legaly check your bags/carts from the store and verify your receipt
>at least in Oregon. Never had HD or Lowes do it mostly Frys Electronics and
>Walmart.
>
>
>Al
>
>
>"Brian Henderson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On Wed, 10 May 2006 04:32:54 GMT, "John Emmons"
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>One other time I called and asked the manager on-duty why she had someone
>>>who was basically incompetent stopping every customer at the door and
>>>demanding to see their reciepts, told her as I had told the employee that
>>>I
>>>thought I had stolen something to call the police.
>>>
>>>I refuse to stop and have my belongings gone thru by drones.
>>
>> You have absolutely no legal obligation to do so and shouldn't. Once
>> you purchase something and they take your payment, you own the item
>> and have no obligation whatsoever to show it to anyone, any more than
>> you can demand the drone empty their pockets for you.
>>
>> I've had some of them being very insistant, but I ignore them. It's
>> funny to see some of them running out into the parking lot after me
>> yelling "I have to see your receipt".
>>
>> No you don't. You *WANT* to see it, you don't have to.
>>
>> Wal-mart has gotten sued over this and has lost every time. They have
>> no right whatsoever to demand to see anything. They can ask, you can
>> decline. They cannot stop you and frankly, I'd love to see one of
>> them try, my lawyer wouldn't mind picking up some free and easy money
>> for me.
>
On Thu, 11 May 2006 02:37:24 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Reasonable suspicion is the sirens going off from the magnetic strip on some
>packages. First time it happened, I did stop, but raised hell with the
>manager because of the incompetence of the cashier that did not deactivate
>it.
Nope, that's not even reasonable suspicion. Their security team has
to have proof that you stole something (ie. you on video doing it).
The alarms at the doors are largely a deterrent, not a way to catch
people. You have zero obligation to stop.
On Thu, 11 May 2006 17:25:48 -0500, George Shouse <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Really?
>
>http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/constitution.billofrights.html#amendmentiv
>
>I believe that something I own is covered under "effects".
>
Since you top-posted a post that had been responded to in proper
chronological order, we have no clue as to whether you are agreeing with
the first post or the second. ... and frankly, I'm not interested in
having to wade through some legal link to find out.
>On Thu, 11 May 2006 02:14:30 GMT, "Al" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>They can legaly check your bags/carts from the store and verify your receipt
>>at least in Oregon. Never had HD or Lowes do it mostly Frys Electronics and
>>Walmart.
>>
>>
>>Al
>>
>>
>>"Brian Henderson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]...
>>> On Wed, 10 May 2006 04:32:54 GMT, "John Emmons"
>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>>One other time I called and asked the manager on-duty why she had someone
>>>>who was basically incompetent stopping every customer at the door and
>>>>demanding to see their reciepts, told her as I had told the employee that
>>>>I
>>>>thought I had stolen something to call the police.
>>>>
>>>>I refuse to stop and have my belongings gone thru by drones.
>>>
>>> You have absolutely no legal obligation to do so and shouldn't. Once
>>> you purchase something and they take your payment, you own the item
>>> and have no obligation whatsoever to show it to anyone, any more than
>>> you can demand the drone empty their pockets for you.
>>>
>>> I've had some of them being very insistant, but I ignore them. It's
>>> funny to see some of them running out into the parking lot after me
>>> yelling "I have to see your receipt".
>>>
>>> No you don't. You *WANT* to see it, you don't have to.
>>>
>>> Wal-mart has gotten sued over this and has lost every time. They have
>>> no right whatsoever to demand to see anything. They can ask, you can
>>> decline. They cannot stop you and frankly, I'd love to see one of
>>> them try, my lawyer wouldn't mind picking up some free and easy money
>>> for me.
>>
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
On Tue, 09 May 2006 22:34:50 -0400, Roy Smith <[email protected]> wrote:
>Went to the local HD yesterday to pick up a bunch of sandpaper and a few
>5/16" and 3/8" bolts I needed. Found what I wanted and decided to speed
>things up by going to the self-checkout line. Bad move.
>
>The sandpaper scanned fine, but I was at a loss how to deal with the bolts.
>4 @ $0.13 and 4 @ $.14, IIRC. No bar code, no obvious way to enter them
>into the system. I futzed around a bit while several sales droid types
>hung out and observed the chaos.
>
>Eventually, I found a screen that said something like "press here to summon
>help", which I did. Still no assistance from the droids was forthcomming.
>Finally, in desperation, I just dropped the bolts into my bag, which
>immediately generated a message that the weight of my bag didn't match what
>I had scanned, and that I should remove the extra items from the bag.
>Still no assistance-droids.
>
>Some more futzing, and the machine prompted me to swipe my credit card. A
>droid came over, helpfully showed me how to swipe it, and watched me
>complete the transaction.
>
>Sigh. I walked out the door with my $11 or so worth of paid-for sandpaper,
>plus (by my calculations), $1.08 worth of hex-head bolts, shamelessly
>absconded with. What's a customer to do?
The lags have a code ---usually 3 letters like....AAG....on the head.
That code needs to be entered into the system X the count.
If I were you I would just go back and pay. I once bought a bunch of
pipes and fittings. When I got home I realized that I had screwed one
piece to another and left it that way at checkout. The lady just
scanned one item. The next time I went back I just brought the item
with me and told the the story and paid for it.
If you don't pay for it you're a thief. If I'm going to be a thief it
should be BIG money..not some lags, etc
Ummmm... Couple quick options:
1) Wave your arm to attract the attention of the "sales droids"
2) Talk to the "sales droid" when it comes over to help you with the credit
card transaction
3) Cancel the transaction, and walk all the way over to the regular tills.
It's only a dollar's worth of items, so I doubt that HD is going to go broke
over it. But the fact that you couldn't scan the items in is not really an
excuse for not paying for them, IMHO.
Clint
"Roy Smith" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Went to the local HD yesterday to pick up a bunch of sandpaper and a few
> 5/16" and 3/8" bolts I needed. Found what I wanted and decided to speed
> things up by going to the self-checkout line. Bad move.
>
> The sandpaper scanned fine, but I was at a loss how to deal with the
> bolts.
> 4 @ $0.13 and 4 @ $.14, IIRC. No bar code, no obvious way to enter them
> into the system. I futzed around a bit while several sales droid types
> hung out and observed the chaos.
>
> Eventually, I found a screen that said something like "press here to
> summon
> help", which I did. Still no assistance from the droids was forthcomming.
> Finally, in desperation, I just dropped the bolts into my bag, which
> immediately generated a message that the weight of my bag didn't match
> what
> I had scanned, and that I should remove the extra items from the bag.
> Still no assistance-droids.
>
> Some more futzing, and the machine prompted me to swipe my credit card. A
> droid came over, helpfully showed me how to swipe it, and watched me
> complete the transaction.
>
> Sigh. I walked out the door with my $11 or so worth of paid-for
> sandpaper,
> plus (by my calculations), $1.08 worth of hex-head bolts, shamelessly
> absconded with. What's a customer to do?
On Thu, 11 May 2006 20:21:34 GMT, Brian Henderson
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Thu, 11 May 2006 03:47:22 GMT, "Al" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>All I can say is go to Frys and see, They always check to make sure whats
>>in the bag is what you purchased they then mark the receipt with a marker
>>showing that it was checked (Wilsonville Oregon call and ask about thier
>>policy). I have had this done at walmart as well. Not arguing with you
>>about the legalities but I know what they do around the Portland Metro area.
>>As far as detaining you, store security can detain you and they are no more
>>then citizens. Don't know where you live but I would have agreed with you
>>years ago when I was a security guard but so many laws have changed in the
>>past 25 to 30 years. I know what I see and what the police have told me
>>about being able to detain people for probable cause. By denying them the
>>access to the bag/cart you give them probable cause to suspect even if your
>>standing on your rightfully so lorrals. This is so far off wood working I
>>am going back into my shop and build a tool box. Have a good day and I hope
>>if you run into what we talked about you are correct and the law enforcement
>>officers lied to me. Back to wood working topics for me.
>
>Nope, I walk through Fry's without the receipt check too. They ask to
>see my receipt, I say no and keep on walking. Stores like Fry's and
>Wal-Mart rely on the fact that most people are sheep and will
>mindlessly do whatever someone in a supposed position of authority
>tells them to do.
>
>They can no more demand to see your receipt than you can to see the
>contents of their pockets. Probable cause requires a lot more than
>exercising your legal rights.
this may be true, BUT, chances are if you take something back and
there is no mark on it from the door checker, they're not likely to
allow you to return the material.
Here lately, WalMart has really backed off in our area, they just like
to check the carts that are carrying oversized items that are not
bagged.
personally, i stop, not because i am a sheeple, more to the fact that
stealing affects all of us in the long run.
How many times has letting them look through your things stopped you from
stealing? Can't you stop on your own?
"nanook" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> personally, i stop, not because i am a sheeple, more to the fact that
> stealing affects all of us in the long run.
"John Emmons" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I find that very hard to believe. Once I pay for something, I own the
> property. No one has the legal right to search my belongings without
> reasonable suspicion that I've done something illegal. If the police can't
> do it, I doubt very seriously that a drone working for WalMart or Home
> Depot
> can.
>
Reasonable suspicion is the sirens going off from the magnetic strip on some
packages. First time it happened, I did stop, but raised hell with the
manager because of the incompetence of the cashier that did not deactivate
it.
Another time, the cashier was not able to get to it on a large item so she
said she'd just wave me on at the door. What she did not know was the
device came of easily and I stuck it on the bottom of the cart for the next
user.
Roy Smith wrote:
> Went to the local HD yesterday to pick up a bunch of sandpaper and a few
> 5/16" and 3/8" bolts I needed. Found what I wanted and decided to speed
> things up by going to the self-checkout line. Bad move.
>
> The sandpaper scanned fine, but I was at a loss how to deal with the bolts.
> 4 @ $0.13 and 4 @ $.14, IIRC. No bar code, no obvious way to enter them
> into the system. I futzed around a bit while several sales droid types
> hung out and observed the chaos.
>
> Eventually, I found a screen that said something like "press here to summon
> help", which I did. Still no assistance from the droids was forthcomming.
> Finally, in desperation, I just dropped the bolts into my bag, which
> immediately generated a message that the weight of my bag didn't match what
> I had scanned, and that I should remove the extra items from the bag.
> Still no assistance-droids.
>
> Some more futzing, and the machine prompted me to swipe my credit card. A
> droid came over, helpfully showed me how to swipe it, and watched me
> complete the transaction.
>
> Sigh. I walked out the door with my $11 or so worth of paid-for sandpaper,
> plus (by my calculations), $1.08 worth of hex-head bolts, shamelessly
> absconded with. What's a customer to do?
Do you make excuses for inaccurate income tax returns too? Do you claim
that there was no IRS agent available to help you fill out the forms
correctly?
Dave
"Bill" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I have done this three times at both Lowes and HD. Hollar at the top of
> your voice, "Your stupid machine does not work." I guarantee, you will
> get their attention and some service. The short embarrasment on you
> part is well worth seeing their shocked faces. Since everybody knows
> that what you said is true, they all laugh with you, not at you.
>
> Bill in WNC mountains
>
I once stood in a store waiting for a salesperson for way too long. I
eventually whipped oput my mobile phone called the store and explained the
problem. Inside of 60 sec I helpful person was speeding toward me. YMMV
Mekon
On Fri, 12 May 2006 01:17:18 GMT, "CW" <[email protected]> wrote:
>How many times has letting them look through your things stopped you from
>stealing? Can't you stop on your own?
>
>
>"nanook" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> personally, i stop, not because i am a sheeple, more to the fact that
>> stealing affects all of us in the long run.
>
LOL!! funny, but you know what i'm talking about, CW. I personally
don't steal, but i'm sure it acts as a deterrent for some folks.
On Mon, 15 May 2006 22:32:10 GMT, Brian Henderson
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On 13 May 2006 10:25:51 -0700, [email protected] wrote:
>
>>Regardless, if you've ever tried to remove one of those damn magnetic
>>lock thingies yourself you'll probably decide it is well worth your
>>while to turn around at th edoor and go back to get it taken care of.
>
>Which ones, the stick-on ones that they put inside DVDs and the like?
>They just peel off. It's the big plastic things that you have to have
>a special tool to remove that are a pain in the backside to get off
>without damaging your merchandise. Most stores are pretty careful
>about removing those since they re-use them. It's the little ones
>that are the ones that set off most alarms because the employees don't
>bother to deactivate them.
They also include them active in mail order DVDs. It's fun to put one in your
pocket then go shopping.
They can legally do it anywhere, if you let them.
"Al" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> They can legaly check your bags/carts from the store and verify your
receipt
> at least in Oregon. Never had HD or Lowes do it mostly Frys Electronics
and
> Walmart.
>
Teamcasa wrote:
>>>"Roy Smith"snip
>>>
>>>>Sigh. I walked out the door with my $11 or so worth of paid-for
>>>>sandpaper,
>>>>plus (by my calculations), $1.08 worth of hex-head bolts, shamelessly
>>>>absconded with. What's a customer to do?
>>>
>>>TeamCasa wrote:
>>>Pay them - on your next visit. Next time, ask for help or better yet,
>>>shop
>>>at a place that has better customer service.
>>>Dave
>
>
>>redice said,
>>Do not I repeat do not pay the next time you go in you will be arrested
>>for theft if you tell them, have herd of it happen before.
>>
>
> Nonsense.
> No business will have you arrested for paying for a product!
> "Officer, arrest that man! He's paying for something!"
>
> Dave
>
>
>
> Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> ** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> http://www.usenet.com
LOL! I almost asked the poster earlier today to provide names and dates
of such arrests. Maybe he heard it from a friend who heard it from a
friend...
Dave
Heehee...I did the same thing at a Home Depot once, called the manager and
asked him why he wasn't running one of the cash registers since the lines
weren't moving and there were no cashiers to be found, amazingly, after I
hung up, he found some employees to put to work.
One other time I called and asked the manager on-duty why she had someone
who was basically incompetent stopping every customer at the door and
demanding to see their reciepts, told her as I had told the employee that I
thought I had stolen something to call the police.
I refuse to stop and have my belongings gone thru by drones.
John
"Mekon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Bill" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > I have done this three times at both Lowes and HD. Hollar at the top of
> > your voice, "Your stupid machine does not work." I guarantee, you will
> > get their attention and some service. The short embarrasment on you
> > part is well worth seeing their shocked faces. Since everybody knows
> > that what you said is true, they all laugh with you, not at you.
> >
> > Bill in WNC mountains
> >
>
> I once stood in a store waiting for a salesperson for way too long. I
> eventually whipped oput my mobile phone called the store and explained the
> problem. Inside of 60 sec I helpful person was speeding toward me. YMMV
>
> Mekon
>
>
On Fri, 12 May 2006 11:15:35 -0700, Fly-by-Night CC
<[email protected]> wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>,
> Brian Henderson <[email protected]> wrote:
>> so we just set
>> off alarms going into and out of a lot of stores. It was as
>> interesting to see which ones weren't going off as it was to see which
>> ones were.
>In my experience, those store (and library) alarms draw as much
>attention from "official" store personnel as do neighborhood car alarms.
Pretty much. They might have looked up, we pointed to the tag and
they shrugged and went back to reading a book.
Al wrote:
> All I can say is go to Frys and see, They always check to make sure whats
> in the bag is what you purchased they then mark the receipt with a marker
> showing that it was checked (Wilsonville Oregon call and ask about thier
> policy). I have had this done at walmart as well. Not arguing with you
> about the legalities but I know what they do around the Portland Metro area.
You are making an offtopic argument then, as what's being asserted is
that snooping through your bag thing is completely voluntary on your
part and they have no right to do it if you refuse. If they suspect you
are a shoplifter they have procedures to follow. If they don't, they
have procedures to follow.
http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/docs/nc-supreme-court/aug0294/giantgenie
The trial court erred in directing verdict for defendant
grocery store manager as to plaintiff's claim for assault and
battery where the evidence tended to show that the manager
accused plaintiff of stealing cartons of cigarettes, grabbed
plaintiff's arm, and pulled him two aisles down toward the
store office. Since defendant manager was acting within the
scope of his employment by the corporate defendant, the
manager's actions will be imputed to the corporate defendant
under the doctrine of respondeat superior.
etc.
er
--
email not valid
They can legaly check your bags/carts from the store and verify your receipt
at least in Oregon. Never had HD or Lowes do it mostly Frys Electronics and
Walmart.
Al
"Brian Henderson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 10 May 2006 04:32:54 GMT, "John Emmons"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>One other time I called and asked the manager on-duty why she had someone
>>who was basically incompetent stopping every customer at the door and
>>demanding to see their reciepts, told her as I had told the employee that
>>I
>>thought I had stolen something to call the police.
>>
>>I refuse to stop and have my belongings gone thru by drones.
>
> You have absolutely no legal obligation to do so and shouldn't. Once
> you purchase something and they take your payment, you own the item
> and have no obligation whatsoever to show it to anyone, any more than
> you can demand the drone empty their pockets for you.
>
> I've had some of them being very insistant, but I ignore them. It's
> funny to see some of them running out into the parking lot after me
> yelling "I have to see your receipt".
>
> No you don't. You *WANT* to see it, you don't have to.
>
> Wal-mart has gotten sued over this and has lost every time. They have
> no right whatsoever to demand to see anything. They can ask, you can
> decline. They cannot stop you and frankly, I'd love to see one of
> them try, my lawyer wouldn't mind picking up some free and easy money
> for me.
Is it true that the chinese military owns Walmart . . . .? Sam Walton
didn't look a bit Chinese . . . These face transplants are getting out of
hand . . .
"TT" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> >
> >Keep on supporting the chinese military by shopping at Walmart with the
> >other sheep. They will soon be YOUR overlords. Please try not to piss
> >them off....
> >
> >/..
> What a fucking moron!
On Thu, 11 May 2006 02:14:30 GMT, "Al" <[email protected]> wrote:
>They can legaly check your bags/carts from the store and verify your receipt
>at least in Oregon. Never had HD or Lowes do it mostly Frys Electronics and
>Walmart.
They can ask, they cannot demand, unless it's something local to
Oregon. Likewise, if you set off their stupid door alarms, you are
not obligated to stop. It is not a sufficient legal reason to detain
you because some clueless checker didn't deactivate the alarm.
The only exception to this are membership stores where you have to be
a member in good standing with a membership card to enter the store.
There, you've signed an agreement to let them do it as a part of your
membership and if you refuse, they have the right to revoke your
membership.
Eugene Nine wrote:
> Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
>
>
>>Reasonable suspicion is the sirens going off from the magnetic strip on
>>some
>>packages. First time it happened, I did stop, but raised hell with the
>>manager because of the incompetence of the cashier that did not deactivate
>>it.
>>
>>Another time, the cashier was not able to get to it on a large item so she
>>said she'd just wave me on at the door. What she did not know was the
>>device came of easily and I stuck it on the bottom of the cart for the
>>next user.
>
>
> Those things are great, you here them all the time at Home Depot and Lowe's
> "Beep Pardon us but we failed to remove the inventory control tag"
> Of course the inventory control is done by scanning the bar code, but
> anti-theft sounds more negative than inventory control.
> When I was in college a guy in my class used to spend many an evening in
> Best Buy peeling those tags off of merchandise and carefully placing them
> stick side up on the floor where they would be stepped on and get stuck to
> someone's shoe so they would set off the alarm when they tried to exit the
> building.
I got a wallet for Christmas a couple years back that set off the alarms
at EVERY store I entered and exited. I looked through the wallet for a
tag and failed to find it until I got really creative in my search. It
was WELL hidden and very tiny. Now I have peace and quiet as I go
through the entrances.
Dave
On Thu, 11 May 2006 20:46:30 -0700, Mark & Juanita
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Thu, 11 May 2006 17:25:48 -0500, George Shouse <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>
>>Really?
>>
>>http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/constitution.billofrights.html#amendmentiv
>>
>>I believe that something I own is covered under "effects".
>>
>
> Since you top-posted a post that had been responded to in proper
>chronological order, we have no clue as to whether you are agreeing with
>the first post or the second. ... and frankly, I'm not interested in
>having to wade through some legal link to find out.
lol, so you semi top-post to tell me this?
I'm hoping you can guess from the url - constitution, bill of
rights - #4?
as to top posting, I top posted to a top poster. What do you
do? I used to "fix up" with a cut & paste to the bottom but
I've gotten tired of that. Used to net-cop, too.
>
>>On Thu, 11 May 2006 02:14:30 GMT, "Al" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>They can legaly check your bags/carts from the store and verify your receipt
>>>at least in Oregon. Never had HD or Lowes do it mostly Frys Electronics and
>>>Walmart.
>>>
>>>
>>>Al
>>>
>>>
>>>"Brian Henderson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>news:[email protected]...
>>>> On Wed, 10 May 2006 04:32:54 GMT, "John Emmons"
>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>One other time I called and asked the manager on-duty why she had someone
>>>>>who was basically incompetent stopping every customer at the door and
>>>>>demanding to see their reciepts, told her as I had told the employee that
>>>>>I
>>>>>thought I had stolen something to call the police.
>>>>>
>>>>>I refuse to stop and have my belongings gone thru by drones.
>>>>
>>>> You have absolutely no legal obligation to do so and shouldn't. Once
>>>> you purchase something and they take your payment, you own the item
>>>> and have no obligation whatsoever to show it to anyone, any more than
>>>> you can demand the drone empty their pockets for you.
>>>>
>>>> I've had some of them being very insistant, but I ignore them. It's
>>>> funny to see some of them running out into the parking lot after me
>>>> yelling "I have to see your receipt".
>>>>
>>>> No you don't. You *WANT* to see it, you don't have to.
>>>>
>>>> Wal-mart has gotten sued over this and has lost every time. They have
>>>> no right whatsoever to demand to see anything. They can ask, you can
>>>> decline. They cannot stop you and frankly, I'd love to see one of
>>>> them try, my lawyer wouldn't mind picking up some free and easy money
>>>> for me.
>>>
>
>
>+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
>
> If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough
>
>+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
All I can say is go to Frys and see, They always check to make sure whats
in the bag is what you purchased they then mark the receipt with a marker
showing that it was checked (Wilsonville Oregon call and ask about thier
policy). I have had this done at walmart as well. Not arguing with you
about the legalities but I know what they do around the Portland Metro area.
As far as detaining you, store security can detain you and they are no more
then citizens. Don't know where you live but I would have agreed with you
years ago when I was a security guard but so many laws have changed in the
past 25 to 30 years. I know what I see and what the police have told me
about being able to detain people for probable cause. By denying them the
access to the bag/cart you give them probable cause to suspect even if your
standing on your rightfully so lorrals. This is so far off wood working I
am going back into my shop and build a tool box. Have a good day and I hope
if you run into what we talked about you are correct and the law enforcement
officers lied to me. Back to wood working topics for me.
Al
"John Emmons" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I find that very hard to believe. Once I pay for something, I own the
> property. No one has the legal right to search my belongings without
> reasonable suspicion that I've done something illegal. If the police can't
> do it, I doubt very seriously that a drone working for WalMart or Home
> Depot
> can.
> When I say that they "can't" obviously if they're willing to make it into
> a
> physical confrontation they can, but not legally and certainly not without
> my sueing them and winning and possibly filing criminal charges against
> them
> for battery.
>
> Stores and their employee's don't enjoy any more legal rights to search or
> detain citizens than any other business.
>
> John
>
> "Al" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> They can legaly check your bags/carts from the store and verify your
> receipt
>> at least in Oregon. Never had HD or Lowes do it mostly Frys Electronics
> and
>> Walmart.
>>
>>
>> Al
>>
>>
>> "Brian Henderson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>> > On Wed, 10 May 2006 04:32:54 GMT, "John Emmons"
>> > <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >
>> >>One other time I called and asked the manager on-duty why she had
> someone
>> >>who was basically incompetent stopping every customer at the door and
>> >>demanding to see their reciepts, told her as I had told the employee
> that
>> >>I
>> >>thought I had stolen something to call the police.
>> >>
>> >>I refuse to stop and have my belongings gone thru by drones.
>> >
>> > You have absolutely no legal obligation to do so and shouldn't. Once
>> > you purchase something and they take your payment, you own the item
>> > and have no obligation whatsoever to show it to anyone, any more than
>> > you can demand the drone empty their pockets for you.
>> >
>> > I've had some of them being very insistant, but I ignore them. It's
>> > funny to see some of them running out into the parking lot after me
>> > yelling "I have to see your receipt".
>> >
>> > No you don't. You *WANT* to see it, you don't have to.
>> >
>> > Wal-mart has gotten sued over this and has lost every time. They have
>> > no right whatsoever to demand to see anything. They can ask, you can
>> > decline. They cannot stop you and frankly, I'd love to see one of
>> > them try, my lawyer wouldn't mind picking up some free and easy money
>> > for me.
>>
>>
>
>
By Thu, 25 May 2006 21:55:56 -0500, "Petrified Woodworker"
<[email protected]> decided to post
"Re: I stole from Home Depot!" to rec.woodworking:
>Is it true that the chinese military owns Walmart . . . .? Sam Walton
>didn't look a bit Chinese . . . These face transplants are getting out of
>hand . . .
>
>
>
>"TT" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>>
>> >
>> >Keep on supporting the chinese military by shopping at Walmart with the
>> >other sheep. They will soon be YOUR overlords. Please try not to piss
>> >them off....
>> >
>> >/..
You shop at Megalo Mart for crazy low prices.
Most, if not ALL, goods sold there are from China.
With their tremendous market power, they've driven
higher priced goods made elsewhere in the world
from their shelves.
Other stores that couldn't compete with them have
died out.
I bet you can easily stipulate to the above, eh,
aphorisms.
China produces a tremendous amount of low
priced, low quality goods.
The Chinese Communist party runs China.
The Chinese Military runs the CCP.
Well damn, it's too complicated for you!!
Sorry!!!!!!!
/..
--
find / -iname "*gw*" -exec rm -rf {} \;
In heaven, there is no beer,
That's why we drink it here,
And when we're all gone from here,
Our friends will be drinking all the beer!
-- Famous old Czech song about beer --
On Tue, 09 May 2006 22:34:50 -0400, Roy Smith <[email protected]> wrote:
>Still no assistance from the droids was forthcomming.
>Finally, in desperation, I just dropped the bolts into my bag, which
>immediately generated a message that the weight of my bag didn't match what
>I had scanned, and that I should remove the extra items from the bag.
Find something in your bag that weighs about the same, roughly the
same price (if you are honest) and scan it again. That works with a
bag full of stuff but only a couple items can be a problem
Why do certain people make a big issue out of something. If your that
concerned about it, go back and tell them. Everybody has something to go on
and on about, and it just makes no sense.
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Tue, 09 May 2006 22:34:50 -0400, Roy Smith <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Still no assistance from the droids was forthcomming.
>>Finally, in desperation, I just dropped the bolts into my bag, which
>>immediately generated a message that the weight of my bag didn't match
>>what
>>I had scanned, and that I should remove the extra items from the bag.
> Find something in your bag that weighs about the same, roughly the
> same price (if you are honest) and scan it again. That works with a
> bag full of stuff but only a couple items can be a problem
In article <[email protected]>,
"Al" <[email protected]> wrote:
> All I can say is go to Frys and see, They always check to make sure whats
> in the bag is what you purchased they then mark the receipt with a marker
> showing that it was checked (Wilsonville Oregon call and ask about thier
> policy).
Hey, I bean there! And I've always meekly opened my bag and handed them
the receipt to compare...
Next time I might try to just keep walking and when they stop me, in a
loud voice I'll ask, "Are you saying you think I stole something from
your store?!"
In all likelyhood, the kid'll stammer out a "no" and I'll thank them and
again head out to my truck...
--
Owen Lowe
The Fly-by-Night Copper Company
__________
"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the
Corporate States of America and to the
Republicans for which it stands, one nation,
under debt, easily divisible, with liberty
and justice for oil."
- Wiley Miller, Non Sequitur, 1/24/05
Like this whole thing is on topic? "rec.woodworking"
I give you win yep I am and was off topic was the question about a TS? BS?
Router? Planer? Jointer?
Al
"Enoch Root" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Al wrote:
>> All I can say is go to Frys and see, They always check to make sure
>> whats
>> in the bag is what you purchased they then mark the receipt with a marker
>> showing that it was checked (Wilsonville Oregon call and ask about thier
>> policy). I have had this done at walmart as well. Not arguing with you
>> about the legalities but I know what they do around the Portland Metro
>> area.
>
> You are making an offtopic argument then, as what's being asserted is
> that snooping through your bag thing is completely voluntary on your
> part and they have no right to do it if you refuse. If they suspect you
> are a shoplifter they have procedures to follow. If they don't, they
> have procedures to follow.
>
> http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/docs/nc-supreme-court/aug0294/giantgenie
>
> The trial court erred in directing verdict for defendant
> grocery store manager as to plaintiff's claim for assault and
> battery where the evidence tended to show that the manager
> accused plaintiff of stealing cartons of cigarettes, grabbed
> plaintiff's arm, and pulled him two aisles down toward the
> store office. Since defendant manager was acting within the
> scope of his employment by the corporate defendant, the
> manager's actions will be imputed to the corporate defendant
> under the doctrine of respondeat superior.
>
> etc.
>
> er
> --
> email not valid
On 12 May 2006 13:45:08 -0700, [email protected] wrote:
>The next time I was there, the 'self service; checkout stations were
>gone.
>
>They've come back now, but only a couple of them with an adequate
>number of real people who can check our items priced by quanity.
>
>Like lumber, for example.
I had fun at the home depot the other day. I had about 150' of smurf
tube, 14 carefully coiled in the bottom of a cart and one loose stick.
I ran all my fittings and small stuff through the machine and asked
the helper droid to crank in quantity 15 on the stick I had out.
The supervisor lady said she wanted to check the ones I had in the
cart. I stood back and told her to go for it. 140 feet of 3/4" smurf
tube sprung to life. People were running, babies were crying and women
fainted. There was certainly a lot of laughing. Short story I got the
smurf tube for the price of the one I scanned for gathering it up and
getting it out the door.
On Thu, 11 May 2006 03:47:22 GMT, "Al" <[email protected]> wrote:
>All I can say is go to Frys and see, They always check to make sure whats
>in the bag is what you purchased they then mark the receipt with a marker
>showing that it was checked (Wilsonville Oregon call and ask about thier
>policy). I have had this done at walmart as well. Not arguing with you
>about the legalities but I know what they do around the Portland Metro area.
>As far as detaining you, store security can detain you and they are no more
>then citizens. Don't know where you live but I would have agreed with you
>years ago when I was a security guard but so many laws have changed in the
>past 25 to 30 years. I know what I see and what the police have told me
>about being able to detain people for probable cause. By denying them the
>access to the bag/cart you give them probable cause to suspect even if your
>standing on your rightfully so lorrals. This is so far off wood working I
>am going back into my shop and build a tool box. Have a good day and I hope
>if you run into what we talked about you are correct and the law enforcement
>officers lied to me. Back to wood working topics for me.
Nope, I walk through Fry's without the receipt check too. They ask to
see my receipt, I say no and keep on walking. Stores like Fry's and
Wal-Mart rely on the fact that most people are sheep and will
mindlessly do whatever someone in a supposed position of authority
tells them to do.
They can no more demand to see your receipt than you can to see the
contents of their pockets. Probable cause requires a lot more than
exercising your legal rights.
On Tue, 09 May 2006 22:34:50 -0400, Roy Smith <[email protected]> wrote:
>Sigh. I walked out the door with my $11 or so worth of paid-for sandpaper,
>plus (by my calculations), $1.08 worth of hex-head bolts, shamelessly
>absconded with. What's a customer to do?
1. Be honest.
2. Don't waste our time with this childrish drivel. Get a life.
Well here in the south, our droids run on extremely low power at all times .
. . usually they are the ones to throw it in the bag and say don't worry
about . . . They to are tired of begging for "price check at register" so
and so . . . I left with 14 Simpson straps a few days ago this way .
At Office Depot, after "pitching a bitch" about no one at the check out
counters for over 15 minutes . . . a manager simply walked up and started
pushing my flat cart with a folding table and a case of paper out the door
to my truck . . . loaded it, apologized and ask me to come again . . . no
money ever changed hands . . . .
Steve
"Roy Smith" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Went to the local HD yesterday to pick up a bunch of sandpaper and a few
> 5/16" and 3/8" bolts I needed. Found what I wanted and decided to speed
> things up by going to the self-checkout line. Bad move.
>
> The sandpaper scanned fine, but I was at a loss how to deal with the
bolts.
> 4 @ $0.13 and 4 @ $.14, IIRC. No bar code, no obvious way to enter them
> into the system. I futzed around a bit while several sales droid types
> hung out and observed the chaos.
>
> Eventually, I found a screen that said something like "press here to
summon
> help", which I did. Still no assistance from the droids was forthcomming.
> Finally, in desperation, I just dropped the bolts into my bag, which
> immediately generated a message that the weight of my bag didn't match
what
> I had scanned, and that I should remove the extra items from the bag.
> Still no assistance-droids.
>
> Some more futzing, and the machine prompted me to swipe my credit card. A
> droid came over, helpfully showed me how to swipe it, and watched me
> complete the transaction.
>
> Sigh. I walked out the door with my $11 or so worth of paid-for
sandpaper,
> plus (by my calculations), $1.08 worth of hex-head bolts, shamelessly
> absconded with. What's a customer to do?
Al wrote:
> All I can say is go to Frys and see, They always check to make sure whats
> in the bag is what you purchased they then mark the receipt with a marker
> showing that it was checked (Wilsonville Oregon call and ask about thier
> policy). I have had this done at walmart as well. Not arguing with you
> about the legalities but I know what they do around the Portland Metro area.
> As far as detaining you, store security can detain you and they are no more
> then citizens. Don't know where you live but I would have agreed with you
> years ago when I was a security guard but so many laws have changed in the
> past 25 to 30 years. I know what I see and what the police have told me
> about being able to detain people for probable cause. By denying them the
> access to the bag/cart you give them probable cause to suspect even if your
> standing on your rightfully so lorrals. This is so far off wood working I
> am going back into my shop and build a tool box. Have a good day and I hope
> if you run into what we talked about you are correct and the law enforcement
> officers lied to me. Back to wood working topics for me.
>
> Al
>
so you are backing away from your earlier assertion??
Dave
Fly-by-Night CC wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> "Al" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>All I can say is go to Frys and see, They always check to make sure whats
>>in the bag is what you purchased they then mark the receipt with a marker
>>showing that it was checked (Wilsonville Oregon call and ask about thier
>>policy).
>
>
> Hey, I bean there! And I've always meekly opened my bag and handed them
> the receipt to compare...
>
> Next time I might try to just keep walking and when they stop me, in a
> loud voice I'll ask, "Are you saying you think I stole something from
> your store?!"
>
> In all likelyhood, the kid'll stammer out a "no" and I'll thank them and
> again head out to my truck...
Rephrase your statement to "Are you ACCUSING me of stealing something
from your store?". Do this with witnesses in the immediate area...
Dave