Are you supposed to tip a freight delivery driver?

"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Steve B" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:UmrCg.43$rT5.28@fed1read01...
>>
>> The parents were mirror images of the children.
>
>
> All the more reason to explain proper public behavior to the parents.

I'm sorry. I have never had a talent for communicating with idiots. They
don't understand me, and I can't lower myself to their level no matter what
the purpose.

Steve

"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Steve B" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:%3vCg.61$rT5.17@fed1read01...
>>
>> "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>> "Steve B" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:UmrCg.43$rT5.28@fed1read01...
>>>>
>>>> The parents were mirror images of the children.
>>>
>>>
>>> All the more reason to explain proper public behavior to the parents.
>>
>> I'm sorry. I have never had a talent for communicating with idiots.
>> They don't understand me, and I can't lower myself to their level no
>> matter what the purpose.
>>
>> Steve
>
>
> It does take balls.
>

Yes, and in today's society makes as much sense as getting out of your car
to correct that driver that just cut you off.

Steve

"grappletech" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>>>>> The parents were mirror images of the children.

>
>
> Combination of nature and nurture results in bad behaving brats; kids
> end up like the parents. If you were to confront the parents, they'd
> probably laugh at you or tell you to go to hell or tell you to mind your
> own business. But in a civilized society, parents raising
> hellions/brats is everyone's business. Because we're going to be the
> ones paying for a lot of these brats when they get older. When they get
> knocked up by other losers and then get on welfare/section 8/ssi/food
> stamps/medicaid, etc.. Or if they go nuts or get on drugs, then they'll
> be declared "mentally ill" and get an SSI check/Medicaid/Section 8
> monthly. Bad parenting costs taxpayers lots of money.


Unfortunately most people look the other way and later wonder why the world
is the way it is.

On Wed, 9 Aug 2006 08:53:19 -0700, "Steve B" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Uh, signing it off as delivered, and dropping it in the river? Marking it
>"refused - return to sender" and scribbling a signature? Marking "unloading
>dock closed" - "return to terminal"? Spilling a can of oil on it, and
>marking "hazardous material leaking from crate"?
>
>Need I go on?
>
>Every company has rules regarding handling and delivery. Any good freight
>man knows how to hurt a "customer" who is a PITA.

Steve,

I don't know what constitutes a PITA for you, but I don't make much
money at my day job- in fact, every major (and most minor) tool
purchases I've ever made came from doing extra work on nights and
weekends. It took 9 weeks of working 5 ten hour days at my regular
job and 2 additional 14 hour days a week doing remodeling on the side
for me to buy my lathe and tablesaw. Now, I didn't get them
delievered because the charges cost too much for my budget- but if I
had, I would not only have had to pay a company a day's wages, but
also try and get 500 pounds of cast iron off the back of a semi in
each case while the driver sat and thought about was an ass I was for
not having a forklift in my garage for that once-every-5-years
delivery.

The long and short of it is that getting the stuff delievered hurts
enough- without some asshole trying to wreck the stuff you busted your
hump for. Like I said, I don't know what you're considering a PITA,
but your attitude is completely nuts. It's not that I *won't* tip a
driver- but after paying a grand for a tool, and another $200 to have
someone deliver it, sometimes people *can't* tip. That's not being an
jerk, that's trying to make sure you can eat that week.

James E. Cannon wrote:
> I've decided that this is on-topic for this NG since many of us order large
> tools that have to be delivered freight.
>
> When a truck driver drops a pallet in your garage, is he expecting a tip?
> How much? What do you think?
>
> It's never a question with the UPS guy since he is already gone before I can
> even answer the door, but the freight guy is a different story.
>
> This is why the whole concept of tipping sucks.

My opinion...if he puts something in the garage, probably some sort of
tip would be expected. I guess my rule for big-box deliveries is to
tip for any service beyond what was contracted for.

In other words, if it's a long-distance motor-freight delivery to a
residence, and I haven't paid for a liftgate, and yet the driver shows
up with one anyway, yeah, I'd tip for that. If it's a local
consumer-oriented store using his delivery truck, and he obviously
knows it's to a residence, well I've already paid for that in the
delivery charge, so no. If, however, either driver helps me get the
box where it needs to go, I'd probably tip. Even if he rolls it up the
driveway into the garage, I'd probably give him a very small tip.

Normally the contracts call for "curbside" delivery because their
trucks could crack your driveway and they won't accept the liability.
So if the driver takes it beyond the curbside, yeah, I'd probably give
him something, even if it's just five bucks.

New Wave Dave wrote:
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
> > In other words, if it's a long-distance motor-freight delivery to a
> > residence, and I haven't paid for a liftgate, and yet the driver shows
> > up with one anyway, yeah, I'd tip for that.
>
> Wait till you get the bill from the truck line for that liftgate!
> Watkins Trucking delivered a crate of MDF cabinet doors I had ordered
> from Lakeside Moulding in Mississippi. It was freight "PREPAID." I met
> the driver at the rear of the truck in the street in front of my house
> and he lowered the crate onto my flatbed dolly using the liftgate. The
> bill came the next week. $57+ (fifty-something cents a pound) for the
> liftgate! How else would one suppose it the merchandise gets from the
> bed of the truck to the ground?
> Nest time, assuming there is a next time I just have the driver shove it
> out the back, then file a damage claim.
> --
> "New Wave" Dave In Houston

Thanks for the guffaw!

I know what you mean...I had to pay the company that delivered my saw
another $70 for the liftgate, although there was no additional poundage
fee. Considering the "curbside" fee I paid to the mfg was only $80, I
was kind of surprised at the amount. But it was contracted up front
with the freight company, so there were no "driveway surprises."

I think if he's a CDL truck driver, he's making a decent salary already, so
no tip necessary. Unless, perhaps, you're wealthy. Then a tip may be in
order. At least offer the guy a Coke or a bottle of water, but usually
they turn refreshments down politely.

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I give 20% to wait staff because I know they make a couple of bucks an
hour and depend on it. Not to mention the time setting up or clean up
making no tips. If outback gave me lousy food I might resort to 15%.
but that is wrong because it proably was the kitchen fault and not the
wait staff. The driver on the other hand is making a decent living and
not dependent on tips. The house delivery is charged extra. Even UPS
charges more for home delivery.Of course some one going the extra mile
in service would get a tip. My only confusion is tip at a buffet. I
think 10% because they can cover at least twice as many people.

After reading the entire thread, I'm sort of shocked by most of the
opinions.

It's likely that I'm making a lot more than the delivery guy. So for
me, $20 to make his day and to encourage him to place the machine in my
garage and wait for me to unpack it is a small price to pay. I know
for a lot of people cash is (their) king. But for me, I never let it
get in the way of treating people right. For me, the $20 is not too
significant, i'll never miss it, and probably means more to the
delivery guy that it does to me. And before you think I was born in to
money or something, I was the child of a single mother in a trailer
park and took seven years to pay my own way through college while
working two jobs and raising three children.

As for the restaurant, I try to leave 20% unless I have to get my own
food, then it's less.

If you want to see the power of tipping, consider this: I have soon to
be nine children. When I take most of them to a restaurant I've never
been to, the waitresses fight because no one wants our table. But if I
tip my normal 20%, the next time, they fight because they want our
table.

The same is true for the delivery guy. If I continue to buy grizzly
machines, there's a good chance that the same saia delivery guy will
bring me the machine. In the past, I could tell that some of the
drivers were jealous of my shop, either because of things they said, or
just the look on their face. I think the $20 in this case does several
things. From an interpersonal relationship standpoint, it ensures that
they'll remember me the next time. It (most likely) ensures good
service this time. It brightens their day. And from a practical
standpoint, it may prevent them from showing up at 3am to clean out the
shop.

You might view this as an extortion payment, but I tend to think of it
as good people skills.

James E. Cannon wrote:
> When a truck driver drops a pallet in your garage, is he expecting a tip?
> How much? What do you think?

I don't think they're expecting it. I give them a $20.

> It's never a question with the UPS guy since he is already gone before I can
> even answer the door, but the freight guy is a different story.

UPS is different.

> This is why the whole concept of tipping sucks.

I agree when it's not clear what the rules are. Russia is a tipping
culture and I had nothing but problems there. The translator said
restaurants are 10%, I left more because it felt wrong. The bellhop in
moscow thought I was a cheapskate for tipping him $5.

brian

> Very generous you are. I however feel that if you get bad service or
> bad food the problem should be corrected before even thinking of
> presenting a reward to the waiter. Cleaning up is part of the job,
> no one would go to a restaraunt with messy tables. There are crappy
> jobs in every industry. Waiters have the benefit of a reward if he
> does his job correctly. His job does include making sure that you are
> happy with what you ordered.


We ate at a restaurant recently, and our waitress happened to have some
relatives of hers in the booth 2 booths over. So instead of servicing us,
she kept standing there gabbing with them. After 20 minutes, I stood up
and walked over to her and asked for drink refills. She gave me a dirty
look like I was an intruder and she said ok. Then I sat down, and a few
minutes later, my wife said: "go ask her for more bread also." So I walk
over to the waitress, who's still gabbing, and as I'm walking up she says:
"You already told me to get refills; I'm on my way to get them!" and gives
me a look that would peel paint. I left her a penny tip and called the
manager about her. Buttholes don't deserve to be rewarded with tips.

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>> You cannot please some customers.
>
> Correct
>
> That guy that said, "The customer is
>> always right" was full of it.
>
> Not really. The customer is always correct if you want to keep him as
> a customer. Some times you have to just swallow you pride and get
> past it. The customer is always correct is a state of mind not a
> reality.


When a company does screw up (it happens) and it effects the customer,
the worker from the company who is now dealing with the customer, even
if not directly responsible for the error, should at least apologize to
the customer before attempting to resolve the problem. In all of my
years dealing with companies and working for companies and with
customers, I have noticed that customers get real pissed off real fast
unless they get an apology. Sometimes, arrogant employees refuse to say
"sorry" to the customer, so the customer stays pissed off, and the
situation further escalates into bigger problems: legal problems,
cancelled contracts, etc.. So as representatives of our companies (and
we who work for co's are), regardless if we directly caused the error,
we need to at least apologize to the customer. To acknowledge the fact
that the customer has been inconvenienced usually is enough to satisfy
the customer and keep them coming back to your co..


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"Locutus" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

>
> "Steve B" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:bKqCg.34$rT5.31@fed1read01...
>>
>> "grappletech" <[email protected]> wrote
>>
>> I left her a penny tip and called the
>>> manager about her. Buttholes don't deserve to be rewarded with
>>> tips.
>>
>> Whenever I get bad service, bad food, or just bad anything, I NEVER
>> EVER leave without a face to face with the manager to let them know.
>> In many cases, it is not the restaurant's doing, and they appreciate
>> the heads up.
>>
>> We had two OBNOXIOUS children in a booth near us at a Mexican
>> restaurant one night. Screaming and running around. I have been
>> going to this restaurant chain for decades. When I complained to the
>> manager, she said, "This IS a family restaurant." I did the meanest
>> nastiest thing I could. I told her that she would get no more of my
>> business, that I would bring no more family or guests to the
>> restaurant, and would not suggest it when asked for a good Mexican
>> restaurant.
>>
>> Her attitude was, whatever.
>>
>> Usually they appreciate being told about a crappy server or cook.
>> AND I will also go to the trouble of turning in a good report on an
>> exceptionally good performance.
>>
>> But I always do it face to face. One time I got a $100 gift
>> certificate at a really good restaurant for reporting something I
>> didn't like.
>>
>> Steve
>
> It's the managers fault because you don't like kids???
>
> I would have probably shared the opinion of the manager.
>
>


He never said he didn't like kids. I'm sure he loves kids. I'd be mad
too -- trying to eat and having to put up with screaming kids. The
parents should reign in their brats, and the manager should have AT
LEAST asked the parents to settle their kids down for the comfort of
other diners. When I was a kid, I never acted up in public because if I
did I would have my butt whipped. Man, discipline is disappearing.
Isn't it? I attended both Texas and California schools throughout the
1970's/1980's (divorced parents). In Texas, if someone gave the teacher
continual lip/disrespect/talking/disrupting, etc., one of the Vice
Principals would come down and swat their asses out in the hall. Guess
what? It works. I RARELY saw any bad behavior in TX schools. In CA,
where there was no paddling, the bully kids ran the classrooms. I
remember in TX in middle school, a 16 year old bully (he flunked 3
times), was giving the teacher lip. The vice Principal came to fetch
him. The kid, a large fat kid, wouldn't leave, so the Vice
Principal/football coach dragged the kid out by his arms into the
hallway and paddled his ass hard. The kid was crying. He quit acting
up though. paddling equals physical pain and humiliation, something
kids don't want to have done to them twice. Hey, a nice project would
be to make a paddle and engrave "Justice" on it! Of course, drill holes
in it.

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Steve B wrote:
> I used to love running into your types. I was a Teamster, and knew 98 ways
> to make your shit disappear for long periods of time.
>
> Steve

LOL.. I worked at one place, it was huge, it had about 8 different
shipping docks scattered all over the "campus".. My boss was a prick.
He was expecting 6 large packages. Every day, he called up our dock and
gave them hell about "where's my packages?" They fixed him up good.
Over the next 3 months, they slowly started to be "found" at other
docks. Every one of them was damaged.

I didn't help with this, and I don't condone it, but sometimes it's
better not to be a jerk to people that can screw you over.

henry wrote:
>. My only confusion is tip at a buffet. I
> think 10% because they can cover at least twice as many people.

No, if it's a buffet, a lot of people think like you and stiff them. I
worked at a place like that in college. A group of six comes in and
stuffs their faces. You spend 30 minutes refilling their drinks and
they leave you a dollar. Keep in mind that some restuarants report tip
income as a percentage of sales the waiter has.

Also, consider that many buffet's are "budget" type restuarants where
cheap bastards eat and the tips are poor.

Give them a full tip at a buffet restuarant.

Steve B wrote:
> We had two OBNOXIOUS children in a booth near us at a Mexican restaurant one
> night. Screaming and running around. I have been going to this restaurant
> chain for decades. When I complained to the manager, she said, "This IS a
> family restaurant." I did the meanest nastiest thing I could. I told her
> that she would get no more of my business, that I would bring no more family
> or guests to the restaurant, and would not suggest it when asked for a good
> Mexican restaurant.
>
> Her attitude was, whatever.
>

What do you expect her to do though? The manager can't spank the kids.

Why didn't you ask to be moved to another table?

Her attitude was "whatever" because she hears that threat from people
like you 5 times a shift. The funny thing is, that most people who
threaten that do come back. LOL.

In the end, your meal two times a month doesn't make much of a
difference. Interesting how you complained about PITA customers when
you delivered frieght, and now you were a PITA customer to the manager.
What exactly did you expect her to do? Throw out the family with kids
to appease a customer that's threatened to never come back?

>>>> The parents were mirror images of the children.
>>>
>>>
>>> All the more reason to explain proper public behavior to the
>>> parents.
>>
>> I'm sorry. I have never had a talent for communicating with idiots.
>> They don't understand me, and I can't lower myself to their level no
>> matter what the purpose.
>>
>> Steve
>
>
> It does take balls.


Combination of nature and nurture results in bad behaving brats; kids
end up like the parents. If you were to confront the parents, they'd
probably laugh at you or tell you to go to hell or tell you to mind your
own business. But in a civilized society, parents raising
hellions/brats is everyone's business. Because we're going to be the
ones paying for a lot of these brats when they get older. When they get
knocked up by other losers and then get on welfare/section 8/ssi/food
stamps/medicaid, etc.. Or if they go nuts or get on drugs, then they'll
be declared "mentally ill" and get an SSI check/Medicaid/Section 8
monthly. Bad parenting costs taxpayers lots of money.


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> I wouldn't consider it lucky. You probably have about a good of chance
> of winning the lottery as you do getting killed for confronting
> someone about cutting you off....
>
> People just don't have any stones anymore. :)


I was coming down a tight, twisting mountain road with huge cliffs. I was
going the speed limit, 35mph. Some rednecks in a beat up old Chevy truck
rush right up to my back bumper and stay there all the way down. I mean
like 10 feet behind me. So I roll down my window and flip them the
universal sign for "you're number 1." They took offense, burned rubber,
sped around me, got in front of me and started slowing way down. When we
were at about 10mph, they drove over to the shoulder and stopped and 3
shirtless inbreds jumped out. I drove over to the shoulder also (in front
of them) but didn't stop completely. Then I just floored it and threw a
lot of dirt back at them! It was classic. Then I sped down the rest of
the mountain, not too far to go, and took off. Don't you hate when someone
else makes the driving error, you call them on it, and THEY take offense!
Like they're the ones who were following the safety/road rules.

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"Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

>
> "grappletech" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> I was coming down a tight, twisting mountain road with huge cliffs.
>> I was going the speed limit, 35mph. Some rednecks in a beat up old
>> Chevy truck rush right up to my back bumper and stay there all the
>> way down.
>
> If you were doing the speed limit, I'd probably be riding on your ass
> too. I hate it when people creep along like that.
>
>


Did you read what I had written? I was coming down a dangerous mountain
with tight, twisting turns and high cliffs. I was going the speed
limit. And chances are, if I weren't there, the truck wouldn't have
gone too much over the speed limit himself; he was just being an ass by
riding my bumper. So I let him know about it. It was only 1.5 miles
coming down that mountain, the SOB in the truck should have been content
to stay at the speed limit and probably was, but again he had to be an
ass and tailgate me. People who rush up on people, tailgate, and stay
there are asses, plain and simple. I think you're describing a
different type situation: like being behind some person driving 15mph in
a 25mph or something in a one-lane residential area.

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"Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

>
> "grappletech" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>
>> Did you read what I had written? I was coming down a dangerous
>> mountain with tight, twisting turns and high cliffs. I was going the
>> speed limit.
>
> Yes, I read it. My answer stands. If the speed limit is 35, you
> won't go over the cliff at 36. Yes, I've driven on twisting mountain
> roads. If the posted speed is X, you can usually safely drive a X+10
> mph
>


So you would tailgate someone who's going down a steep hill at the speed
limit? Dude, if you did that to me, I'd flash you the "you're number
1" sign, and if you pulled over to the shoulder and got out, you'd have
problems. Major problems. The guy in the truck would have had a major
problem, but he had 2 of his fellow rednecks with him, so I didn't stop.
:-)

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"Steve B" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:6QSCg.164$rT5.57@fed1read01:

>
> "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> "grappletech" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>
>>> Did you read what I had written? I was coming down a dangerous
>>> mountain with tight, twisting turns and high cliffs. I was going
>>> the speed limit.
>>
>> Yes, I read it. My answer stands. If the speed limit is 35, you
>> won't go over the cliff at 36. Yes, I've driven on twisting mountain
>> roads. If the posted speed is X, you can usually safely drive a X+10
>> mph
>>
>
> "Usually"? What happens in the "unusual" cases?
>
> Steve
>

Yeah, what this Edwin dude doesn't realize (and I had forgotten to
mention) that this particular twisty mountain road with high cliffs was
prone, in the winter mornings which this was, to developing black ice.
Hyper-aggressive driving knuckleheads often kill innocent drivers, all
so they can get to wherever they're going a few minutes faster. Ever
hear of leaving your house on time? So you don't have to speed?

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I guess the determining factor for me is whether they do something more
than what is required by their paycheck. For the delivery people, all
they're really required to do is drop it at the curb, then wait for you
to sign the form saying there's no damage. That usually involves only
a visual inspection of the outside of the container. Anyone who's
shipped big machines can tell you that there may be damage inside
though. So when a driver drops the 400+lb machine in my garage/shop
right where I want it, then waits around for me to get through the
packaging material and inspect all the pieces, I think that warrants a
tip. At the very least, it will stop them from complaining about the
extra 15 or 20 minutes to get everything apart.

As a side note, I don't like to tip bellhops, but I do it anyway. I
think they're just doing their normal job. But I know they're making
minimum wage so I don't feel too bad about it. Another place were
tipping annoys me is in buffets. Part of a waitresses job is to bring
me my food. If I have to get up and fetch my own food, that means the
waitress isn't earning their tip. Sometimes, at our local old crusty
buffet, the waitresses try to bring our drinks. But that annoys me
also since we have a very specific way of getting them which is
difficult to explain. Since i'm already up, I'd just prefer to get them
myself. We still tip them, but it's not the whole 20% that we would do
at a normal restaurant. The waitresses also buss the table so I think
they should get something. I also notice that most people at the
buffet don't tip at all.

Same for cab drivers. I don't like to tip them, but I do it anyway.

brian


Dave Hall wrote:
> I guess I may be in a minority here. I don't seem to `know who should
> be tipped outside of restaurants. I don't tip lawyers or accountants.
> I don't tip police or firefighters. I don't tip the lady at the DMV
> that takes my picture. I don't tip the cashier at K-Mart. I would
> never have even thought of tipping a truck driver before this thread.
> Nobody has ever offered to tip me for getting out payroll on time,
> paying vendors or submitting financial statements (let alone for
> collecting their taxes). I really don't get the concept of having to
> pay extra to get people to do the job that they get a paycheck for
> doing. Just to show that I don't have consistency in my "philosphy", I
> always holiday tipped the newspaper delivery boy or girl when they
> still had newspaper delivery boys and girls (I have never tipped the
> adult that drives past heaving out newspapers, though).
>
> Dave Hall
>
> On 9 Aug 2006 06:03:06 -0700, "brianlanning" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >After reading the entire thread, I'm sort of shocked by most of the
> >opinions.
> >
> >It's likely that I'm making a lot more than the delivery guy. So for
> >me, $20 to make his day and to encourage him to place the machine in my
> >garage and wait for me to unpack it is a small price to pay. I know
> >for a lot of people cash is (their) king. But for me, I never let it
> >get in the way of treating people right. For me, the $20 is not too
> >significant, i'll never miss it, and probably means more to the
> >delivery guy that it does to me. And before you think I was born in to
> >money or something, I was the child of a single mother in a trailer
> >park and took seven years to pay my own way through college while
> >working two jobs and raising three children.
> >
> >As for the restaurant, I try to leave 20% unless I have to get my own
> >food, then it's less.
> >
> >If you want to see the power of tipping, consider this: I have soon to
> >be nine children. When I take most of them to a restaurant I've never
> >been to, the waitresses fight because no one wants our table. But if I
> >tip my normal 20%, the next time, they fight because they want our
> >table.
> >
> >The same is true for the delivery guy. If I continue to buy grizzly
> >machines, there's a good chance that the same saia delivery guy will
> >bring me the machine. In the past, I could tell that some of the
> >drivers were jealous of my shop, either because of things they said, or
> >just the look on their face. I think the $20 in this case does several
> >things. From an interpersonal relationship standpoint, it ensures that
> >they'll remember me the next time. It (most likely) ensures good
> >service this time. It brightens their day. And from a practical
> >standpoint, it may prevent them from showing up at 3am to clean out the
> >shop.
> >
> >You might view this as an extortion payment, but I tend to think of it
> >as good people skills.
> >
> >James E. Cannon wrote:
> >> When a truck driver drops a pallet in your garage, is he expecting a tip?
> >> How much? What do you think?
> >
> >I don't think they're expecting it. I give them a $20.
> >
> >> It's never a question with the UPS guy since he is already gone before I can
> >> even answer the door, but the freight guy is a different story.
> >
> >UPS is different.
> >
> >> This is why the whole concept of tipping sucks.
> >
> >I agree when it's not clear what the rules are. Russia is a tipping
> >culture and I had nothing but problems there. The translator said
> >restaurants are 10%, I left more because it felt wrong. The bellhop in
> >moscow thought I was a cheapskate for tipping him $5.
> >
> >brian

Everyone who's ever been a cab drivers says that. I think it would be
a cool job to have for a short while. You'd meet a lot of people while
learning the streets *really* well. You probably see a lot of weird
stuff though. I guess it's easy to burn out quickly.

I just finished a year long contract in downtown chicago. The client
was in such a bad location that I had to take a cab almost every day to
go to lunch.

brian

Dave Hall wrote:
> On 11 Aug 2006 05:02:18 -0700, "brianlanning" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> I have only taken a cab a few times and always tipped, but that may be
> because I drove a cab for a year or so as a third job while in college
> and it was definitely the worst job I have ever had.

"Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in news:nG1Dg.1$ha1.0@trndny03:

>
> "grappletech" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>
>>
>> So you would tailgate someone who's going down a steep hill at the
>> speed limit? Dude, if you did that to me, I'd flash you the "you're
>> number 1" sign, and if you pulled over to the shoulder and got out,
>> you'd have problems. Major problems.
>
> Oh my, now you have me scared. Truth is, once you gave me the finger,
> I'd be too shook up to drive further. I'd just pull over and try to
> compose myself and continue on at a very slow pace. Wow, It would
> probably take me a very long time to recover.
>


:-).........you could pull into the nearest bar and have a Coke/whiskey to
settle the nerves after being flashed the number 1 sign. It's cool. Yeah
I should have previously mentioned the mountain road's tendency to ice up
on winter mornings. I would have thrown down with the truck's redneck
driver, but he had 2 dudes with him. Even my 3 years of Brazilian Jiu-
Jitsu wouldn't have helped much. I would have broken someone's arm but
would have had my head pummeled by the other 2 inbreds. One-on-one would
have been a breeze, though. But hillbilly rednecks don't fight fair. I
suppose I could have crashed into their truck. In that film "Ode to Billy
Joe", the scene where the Ford and Chevy trucks are pushing each other on
the bridge is pretty cool. late 40's/early 50's Chevy versus same era
Ford.

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Dave Hall <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> When I drove the cab the shift was mostly from mid-night to 8:00 am in
> a fairly small West Virginia college town (Morgantown). This was a
> truly crappy shift that mostly got me bums and drunks or drunk bums. I
> never knew that the government gave out transportation vouchers to
> bums before as part of their welfare. Needless to say, the Government
> didn't tip and neither did the bums or drunken bums. Some of the plain
> old drunks did. That was almost 30 years ago and just thinking about
> it brings back some disgusting feelings. Man, I hated that job, but I
> guess it put food on the table for the wife and kids while I was in
> school.
>
> Dave Hall


WTF?!?!?! How many transportation vouchers did they get? Did you see
the same drunkasses weekly, each time with a voucher? F_____g
ridiculous. Our tax dollars at work. These drug and/or alcohol
addicted losers now get the full gamut of the welfare teat -- SSI or
Social Security Disability, Section 8 housing (sometimes live in brand
new houses), Medicaid, food stamps, etc.. I knew a guy who dropped tons
of acid in the 1970's as a teenager and blew a gasket or 2 (but seems ok
now). He's in his 40's now, never had a job, and has been on the
welfare teat since he was 18. He was moaning about "only" getting a
$900/month welfare check in California (CA supplements the standard
$500/month federal SSI check with an extra $400). I told him he oughtta
get off the welfare teat and get a job.

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"James E. Cannon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:0l5Cg.67601$9c6.42995@dukeread11...
> I've decided that this is on-topic for this NG since many of us order
> large tools that have to be delivered freight.
>
> When a truck driver drops a pallet in your garage, is he expecting a tip?
> How much? What do you think?
>
> It's never a question with the UPS guy since he is already gone before I
> can even answer the door, but the freight guy is a different story.
>
> This is why the whole concept of tipping sucks.

I don't think so, and I would doubt that he would accept it. When I was
younger I used to work at the service counter of a large computer retailer.
Sometimes if people would ask nicely and had a good reason I would try and
move their service ticket up. Often they would try and tip me when they
picked up their PC, if I would have accepted it, and management found out, I
would have been terminated... I know many service companies have similar
policies.

"New Wave Dave" <[email protected]> writes:

>and he lowered the crate onto my flatbed dolly using the liftgate. The
>bill came the next week. $57+ (fifty-something cents a pound) for the
>liftgate! How else would one suppose it the merchandise gets from the
>bed of the truck to the ground?
>Nest time, assuming there is a next time I just have the driver shove it
>out the back, then file a damage claim.

The standard in the freight industry is that the customer removes the
freight from the truck unless you pay extra for a liftgate.

This ain't Fedex Ground or UPS.

Brian Elfert

"Steve B" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:bKqCg.34$rT5.31@fed1read01...
>
> "grappletech" <[email protected]> wrote
>
> I left her a penny tip and called the
>> manager about her. Buttholes don't deserve to be rewarded with tips.
>
> Whenever I get bad service, bad food, or just bad anything, I NEVER EVER
> leave without a face to face with the manager to let them know. In many
> cases, it is not the restaurant's doing, and they appreciate the heads up.
>
> We had two OBNOXIOUS children in a booth near us at a Mexican restaurant
> one night. Screaming and running around. I have been going to this
> restaurant chain for decades. When I complained to the manager, she said,
> "This IS a family restaurant." I did the meanest nastiest thing I could.
> I told her that she would get no more of my business, that I would bring
> no more family or guests to the restaurant, and would not suggest it when
> asked for a good Mexican restaurant.
>
> Her attitude was, whatever.
>
> Usually they appreciate being told about a crappy server or cook. AND I
> will also go to the trouble of turning in a good report on an
> exceptionally good performance.
>
> But I always do it face to face. One time I got a $100 gift certificate
> at a really good restaurant for reporting something I didn't like.
>
> Steve

It's the managers fault because you don't like kids???

I would have probably shared the opinion of the manager.

"Steve B" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:ForCg.44$rT5.25@fed1read01...
>
> "Locutus" <[email protected]> wrote
>
>> It's the managers fault because you don't like kids???
>>
>> I would have probably shared the opinion of the manager.
>>
>
> Huh? They're running around doing that scream that feels like an ice pick
> in your ear, and you think I don't like kids?
>
> I have kids.
>
> I have grandkids.
>
> And we don't let them be a PITA to others, and we sure as hell don't let
> them run all over the place in public establishments acting like screaming
> heathens.
>
> Steve

If they did, would that be the establishments fault or the parents fault?

On Tue, 08 Aug 2006 20:31:28 -0700, Steve B wrote:

> I can tell you never ran into a real freight man. They have the power to
> send your stuff to Cleveland if they want to. And do all sorts of things
> to hold up your business, freight, and heartbeat.
>
> I used to love running into your types. I was a Teamster, and knew 98
> ways to make your shit disappear for long periods of time.
>
> Steve

So Steve, did you consider this to be 'doing your job'? The way I see
it, somebody already paid your employer to deliver the freight and your
employer has already agreed to pay you for delivering the freight and then
you stand there and DON'T DELIVER THE FREIGHT.

I presently AM a Teamster and formerly was a UTU guy (Conrail ... when we
lost freight we lost boxcar loads at a time!). It was my job to deliver
the freight -on time and in good condition- ... AND THAT'S WHAT I DID.

For my part, if the driver does much more than simply pull up and
wait while I unload, then he's probably done something extra and should be
slipped a couple extra skins for his effort. But if all he does is sit
while I unload and then retaliates the lack of an (unearned) tip, then
I'll simply specify a different common carrier with my next order. And he
won't get ANY money from my next purchase. Not even his wages.

Times are tough. You want the money? Do the work.

Bill

On Wed, 09 Aug 2006 08:48:32 -0700, Steve B wrote:

> You cannot please some customers. That guy that said, "The customer is
> always right" was full of it.
>
> Steve

Maybe the customer isn't always right, but he's always the customer. If
the money doesn't leave his pocket it never arrives in mine.

On Wed, 09 Aug 2006 13:21:52 -0700, Steve B wrote:

> "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote
>
> A good and successful salesman or representative has to swallow
>> his pride on occasion and try to see it from his customers point if
>> view.
>
> I saw a cute cartoon: Man talking to a lady at a complaints desk.
>
> Man says, Lady, if we let you keep the merchandise, refund all your money,
> AND shoot the salesman, then would you be happy?

I managed for Dominos Pizza in Detroit and that WAS the guarantee.

If we shanked the pizza and had to make a replacement, you got it AND a
full refund. If the driver balked, you could also keep him ... we
certainly had no further use for him.

On Wed, 09 Aug 2006 12:32:34 -0700, Steve B wrote:

>>
> I can see you've never been a Teamster union member.

I can see you've never been the sort of person I would care to associate
with.

My whole plant (until tomorrow ... I'm quitting due to LOUSY union wages)
is Teamster and we bust our buns getting the right product in the right
box and on the right truck (prolly about 20-25 loads a day).

To think that the driver, also a Teamster, would louse that up shows a
remarkable lack of union unity.

Bill

On Wed, 09 Aug 2006 08:57:59 -0700, Steve B wrote:

> You know, it's funny how a $20 tip can get a driver NOT to charge a $57
> liftgate charge and write: Unloaded by customer's forklift. But hey, that
> would be bribery/extortion according to some people who don't understand
> simple math.
>
> Steve

Apparently your ethics are for sale. You would cheat your employer out of
$57 for a $20 bribe by lying about the delivery.

I've been reading this thread for about a half hour now and it's apparent
that you 'just don't get it' because you don't see ANYTHING wrong with how
you lived your work life. Well I do and I can promise you that the one
thing you and I will never be is friends. Not in this life and probably
not in any future one either.

Bill

"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Leon wrote:
>>
>> Let my fingers get away from me on the previous reply.
>>
>> Constitutes "child abuse" in some jurisdictions. School officials can
>> lose
>> their jobs over it.
>
> There are those these days with moral conflicts about paddling their
> children or letting some one else take charge in the parents absence. As
> a result, see see higher crime rates. Some one needs to help teach our
> children right from wrong and it is a 24 hour a day job.

Crime rates have been steadily declining over the past 20 years....

"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Locutus" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>> Leon wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Let my fingers get away from me on the previous reply.
>>>>
>>>> Constitutes "child abuse" in some jurisdictions. School officials can
>>>> lose
>>>> their jobs over it.
>>>
>>> There are those these days with moral conflicts about paddling their
>>> children or letting some one else take charge in the parents absence.
>>> As a result, see see higher crime rates. Some one needs to help teach
>>> our children right from wrong and it is a 24 hour a day job.
>>
>> Crime rates have been steadily declining over the past 20 years....
>>
> I do not believe that for one moment. Perhaps in certain areas but as a
> whole certainly up an especially in New Orleans and Houston.

The US as a whole.

http://usinfo.state.gov/eur/Archive/2005/Sep/29-519328.html

"Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:LuICg.5099$Pp1.2679@trndny04...
>
> "Locutus" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> . As a result, see see higher crime rates. Some one needs to help
>>> teach our children right from wrong and it is a 24 hour a day job.
>>
>> Crime rates have been steadily declining over the past 20 years....
>>
>
> Sure, we've redefined crimes. Society now accepts bad behavior

c'mon.. that is not true at all.

"David" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Locutus wrote:
>> "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:LuICg.5099$Pp1.2679@trndny04...
>>> "Locutus" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>>> . As a result, see see higher crime rates. Some one needs to help
>>>>> teach our children right from wrong and it is a 24 hour a day job.
>>>> Crime rates have been steadily declining over the past 20 years....
>>>>
>>> Sure, we've redefined crimes. Society now accepts bad behavior
>>
>> c'mon.. that is not true at all.
> I dunno; parents are way too permissive from what I've seen in public with
> kids cursing, standing on restaurant tables and the parents act totally
> oblivious. I would have been drawn and quartered if I'd done 1/2 of what
> the little brats today get away with on a regular basis. Look at
> Supernanny or Nanny 911 to get a glimpse of todays little monsters and
> their pathetically inept parents.
>
> Dave

I would agree with you there, but none of those things were ever "criminal".
If anything, a lot of things that are criminal today were not 30 years ago.

"Steve B" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:6dJCg.106$rT5.85@fed1read01...
>
> "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:KZICg.3485$%[email protected]...
>>
>> "Steve B" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:%hICg.92$rT5.20@fed1read01...
>>>
>>> Yes, and in today's society makes as much sense as getting out of your
>>> car to correct that driver that just cut you off.
>>
>>
>> I have done that too although my wife was not impressed. I did wait
>> until the SOB cut me off a second time on the same street. He rolled his
>> window up quickly.
>>
>
> You were lucky. Many people have been killed or seriously injured in that
> exact scenario.
>
> Steve

I wouldn't consider it lucky. You probably have about a good of chance of
winning the lottery as you do getting killed for confronting someone about
cutting you off....

People just don't have any stones anymore. :)

"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Locutus" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>> Dave
>>
>> I would agree with you there, but none of those things were ever
>> "criminal". If anything, a lot of things that are criminal today were not
>> 30 years ago.
>>
>
> Why do you suppose there are more criminal laws today than 30 years
> ago????

Exactly. So to say that we have become more tolerant of crime and that is
the reason crime is down is absurd.

"Steve B" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:iOqCg.36$rT5.6@fed1read01...

> For you to prattle on about such things just shows you must be a
> Liberal Democrat. These things happen every day.

Ah! The same liberal Democrats that have traditionally supported
union organizations for decades? So lemme get this straight; now you
support conservative republicans? And how does that help your beloved
teamsters?
--
"New Wave" Dave In Houston

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
>
> "James E. Cannon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:0l5Cg.67601$9c6.42995@dukeread11...
> > I've decided that this is on-topic for this NG since many of us order
> > large tools that have to be delivered freight.
> >
> > When a truck driver drops a pallet in your garage, is he expecting a tip?
> > How much? What do you think?
> >
> > It's never a question with the UPS guy since he is already gone before I
> > can even answer the door, but the freight guy is a different story.
> >
> > This is why the whole concept of tipping sucks.
>
> I don't think so, and I would doubt that he would accept it. When I was
> younger I used to work at the service counter of a large computer retailer.
> Sometimes if people would ask nicely and had a good reason I would try and
> move their service ticket up. Often they would try and tip me when they
> picked up their PC, if I would have accepted it, and management found out, I
> would have been terminated... I know many service companies have similar
> policies.
>
>
>
>
IMHO, it's your choice and consider tips as nothing more than wages a
customer pays other peoples' help. It's your money; do as you wish. As
for me, I figure they're already getting paid by somebody else to do a
job. If they don't like their salary, they can bargain for a larger one
or change jobs. Hard nosed? Perhaps? So be it!

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On 2006-08-08 12:10:52 -0700, "James E. Cannon" <[email protected]> said:

> I've decided that this is on-topic for this NG since many of us order
> large tools that have to be delivered freight.
>
> When a truck driver drops a pallet in your garage, is he expecting a
> tip? How much? What do you think?
>
> It's never a question with the UPS guy since he is already gone before
> I can even answer the door, but the freight guy is a different story.
>
> This is why the whole concept of tipping sucks.

I've been thinking about how to respond to this post. I come at this
from a little bit different angle though. I am a driver with ABF
Freight systems. I drive a local route where 60% of my deliveries are
residential. We have a couple of National accounts that ship
woodworking tools. I don't want to bore you with facts but I'll try to
give you a few. Here are the tariffs which we apply to a residential
freight delivery that requires a lift-gate or fork lift.

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Item 758 : Lift-gate Service

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When ABF is required or requested to employ mechanical loading or
unloading devices to accomplish pickup or delivery of freight, an
additional charge of $2.95 per 100 pounds of actual weight will be
assessed, but not less than $109.90 nor more than $232.35 per shipment
per trailer.
The charges for this service shall be paid by the party for whom the
service is performed. On single line shipments, the charges may be
guaranteed by the shipper.
At locations where ABF does not maintain suitable equipment and elects
to outsource lifting or lowering devices to accomplish pickup or
delivery, additional equipment charges incurred by ABF will be
collected from the party requesting this service.
ABF is not obligated to perform this service where suitable equipment
or operators are unavailable, nor at locations inaccessible to our
vehicles, or where the safety of our vehicles or personnel is
jeopardized.
Item 751 : Pickup or Delivery at Private Residences

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Provisions of this item will apply to residential locations, including
the entire premise on which a dwelling is located, including but not
limited to:
    · private residences 
    · apartments and dormitories
    ·
rectories and parsonages
Shipments picked up at, consigned to or delivered to such locations
will be assessed a charge per service of $5.45 per cwt, but not less
than $68.40, nor more than $213.70 per shipment, in addition to all
other charges applicable to the shipment.  If the service is performed
at a location in the zip code range of 70001 through 70499, inclusive,
the above charges will apply subject to a minimum of $116.25.
Item 566 : Handling Freight at Positions Not Immediately Adjacent to Vehicle

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When requested by the Customer, and ABF's operating conditions permit,
ABF may move shipments from or to positions beyond the immediately
adjacent loading or unloading positions available to carrier's vehicle.
The provisions of this item include service at Shopping Malls when the
actual pickup or delivery site within the mall complex is not
immediately adjacent to the loading or unloading positions available to
carrier's vehicle.
Service under this item will be provided to floors above or below the
level accessible to ABF's vehicle only when elevator or escalator
service is available and labor, when necessary to operate same, is
provided without cost to ABF.
Charges for points other than the Borough of Manhattan, NY:
Service provided under this item will be assessed a charge of $5.90 per
100 pounds, but not less than $57.70 per shipment per trailer, nor more
than $695.70 per shipment per trailer. When shipments are accorded
split pickup, split delivery or stopped in transit for partial loading
or unloading, the minimum and maximum charges will apply to each stop
separately wherever the service is performed.

When I deliver to a residence, the freight bill will specify whether
residence, inside, ground delivery
have been paid for. My responsibility for the delivery of the freight
is to the back of the trailer, if ground or inside is not specified. I
have a lift-gate trailer. Not all routes do. My personal policy is that
if I can back to the garage, I will get the freight of with the
lift-gate and put it in their garage even if its not stated. 90% of the
time this can be accomplished. Believe me, its a lot less of a hassle
than arguing or calling in to have charges authorized by the shipper.
you can see that at a minimum, the charges to get a large (crate, box
pallet, lathe, table saw, planer,etc) would be about $236.00. Some or
all might be paid for by the shipper.
Now all that said.........

If you have paid for any or all of these charges, or not.. You are
under now obligation what so ever to tip the driver, and for most of
the drivers I work with, none is expected.

By the way if you think living in Northern California on $20.86 an hour
is being paid well, then think again
----------------8469308861681692777--

"James E. Cannon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:GF5Cg.67602$9c6.1565@dukeread11...
> "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> "James E. Cannon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:0l5Cg.67601$9c6.42995@dukeread11...
>>> I've decided that this is on-topic for this NG since many of us order
>>> large tools that have to be delivered freight.
>>>
>>> When a truck driver drops a pallet in your garage, is he expecting a
>>> tip? How much? What do you think?
>>>
>>> It's never a question with the UPS guy since he is already gone before I
>>> can even answer the door, but the freight guy is a different story.
>>>
>>> This is why the whole concept of tipping sucks.
>>>
>>
>> Not necessary as you have paid for the service. I assure you that when
>> he delivers to a regular retail store he does not get a tip.
>> However if you feel grateful enough, by all means tip the guy. I
>
> I understand the difference when delivering to a business. I receive
> shipments via semi at work all the time (*BIG* computers) and obviously
> don't even consider tipping them. It just seems different when it's a
> home delivery since I don't have a loading dock or forklift.
>
> It's not that I felt so grateful that I "wanted" to tip (I already paid
> $125 for shipping), I just don't want to be seen as a cheapskate and maybe
> pay for it later with late/damaged shipments if I do business with the
> same driver again.

And that can happen. I had some Kraftmaid cabinet delivered once. They did
a good job and I tipped the guys nicely. The cabinet were damaged and they
had to make a return trip. There were very nice and helpful the second
trip.

Darrell

On Wed, 9 Aug 2006 17:32:47 -0700, "Steve B" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>You have seen NOTHING in the way of paddling unless you have visited foreign
>countries where caning is allowed.
>
>It is administered with a wet piece of cane about 1/4" in diameter and about
>five feet long. If the person administering the caning is thought to hold
>back, he gets twice the number of lashes. They swing for the cheap seats,
>believe me.
>
>They do it on bare hindsides and backs. The backs of the thighs. People
>being whipped scream and dance from foot to foot. They void all over
>themselves. Their screams are every bit as piercing as any two year old
>girl's.
>
>And most don't repeat the experiences.
>
>Too bad it is not used in the US.

On guys who won't do their jobs, I'd hope.

"grappletech" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> Did you read what I had written? I was coming down a dangerous mountain
> with tight, twisting turns and high cliffs. I was going the speed
> limit.

Yes, I read it. My answer stands. If the speed limit is 35, you won't go
over the cliff at 36. Yes, I've driven on twisting mountain roads. If the
posted speed is X, you can usually safely drive a X+10 mph

"Tom Veatch" <.> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Steve B" <[email protected]> said:
>
>>For you to prattle on about such things just shows you
>>must be a Liberal Democrat. These things happen every day.
>
> I fully agree with Mr. Clark, and I am very, very far from being a
> "Liberal Democrat". I also agree that "These things happen every day",
> but, to belabor the obvious, that doesn't make it right, ethical, or
> honorable.
>
> I really cannot believe what I've been reading in this thread. Well,
> yes, I can, I just don't want to. Please tell me I'm wrong, but some
> of the posts in this thread give me an impression of one who is
> willing, even eager and proud, to commit dishonorable, dishonest,
> unethical, illegal acts for no reason other than displeasure with a
> customer.
>
> The acts that I've seen described amount to nothing less than theft.
> Theft of wages from the employer by not performing those duties for
> which the employer paid. Theft from the customer by depriving him/her
> of goods belonging to that customer. I find such acts to be immoral
> and unethical at best; dishonorable at worst.

Welcome to reality, Mr. Veatch.

"Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:LuICg.5099$Pp1.2679@trndny04...
>
> "Locutus" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> . As a result, see see higher crime rates. Some one needs to help
>>> teach our children right from wrong and it is a 24 hour a day job.
>>
>> Crime rates have been steadily declining over the past 20 years....
>>
>
> Sure, we've redefined crimes. Society now accepts bad behavior
I'll have to beliece that you hit the nail on the head. Spanking your child
was probably considered a crime.
>

"David" <[email protected]> wrote

> Unruly patrons who ruin the experience of other diners should be shown the
> door, IMHO.
>
> Dave

The night the OBNOXIOUS children ruined our dinner, I asked the manager,
"What would happen if I was unruly and ran around screaming?"

She said, "I would call the police."

What is the difference?

Steve

I have worked as a receiver, and have supervised receivers for a large
company for many years, no company ever tips a freight driver. Now if you
are having a delivery to your house and the drive goes over and above in the
way of service taking the time to help you off the truck and moves it around
and positions it carefully in a garage, you may want to drop a tip, or at
least a cold drink in summer, hot in winter. Avoid beer as he is driving.
Drivers who refuse to cross the curb or even touch the merchandise, would
not even qualify for a thanks, even though they may be entirely within their
rights.

"James E. Cannon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:0l5Cg.67601$9c6.42995@dukeread11...
> I've decided that this is on-topic for this NG since many of us order
> large tools that have to be delivered freight.
>
> When a truck driver drops a pallet in your garage, is he expecting a tip?
> How much? What do you think?
>
> It's never a question with the UPS guy since he is already gone before I
> can even answer the door, but the freight guy is a different story.
>
> This is why the whole concept of tipping sucks.
>

"Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "grappletech" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>
>> Did you read what I had written? I was coming down a dangerous mountain
>> with tight, twisting turns and high cliffs. I was going the speed
>> limit.
>
> Yes, I read it. My answer stands. If the speed limit is 35, you won't
> go over the cliff at 36. Yes, I've driven on twisting mountain roads. If
> the posted speed is X, you can usually safely drive a X+10 mph
>

I would assume, then, if one is in a marked police car that they can go even
faster.

A few months ago, a Nevada State Trooper was doing just that. Depending on
which crash analysis you read, he was going between 113 and 119 mph when he
hit the back of a Cadillac THAT WAS DOING THE SPEED LIMIT OF 55 MPH. Four
of the occupants in the Cadillac were killed on impact. The fifth, a 16
year old pregnant girl lived. He said he was on his way home to take an
online history test, and the time window for him to do so was about to
expire. He was running without red lights or siren.

He was sentenced a couple of days ago to two to twelve years. Pretty light
sentence.

I get aggravated with people who think they are so important that the rest
of the world needs to get out of their way because they are late, or just
have a king complex.

Steve

J. Clarke wrote:
> W Canaday wrote:
>>I managed for Dominos Pizza in Detroit and that WAS the guarantee.
>>
>>If we shanked the pizza
>
>
> ??? Not heard that expression. I've heard "shank" as in "stab" and "shank"
> as in "ride shank's mare" meaning "walk" but I'm having difficulty
> associating either with a pizza.

Think "golf".

"The shank is the portion or part of an iron where the club face and
hosel meet. When a golfer hits the ball in that area of the club head it
produces a unwanted ball reaction which is called and widely accepted as
a "shank."

http://www.topendsports.com/sport/golf/shank.htm

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
[email protected]
(Remove -SPAM- to send email)

On Tue, 8 Aug 2006 14:10:52 -0500, "James E. Cannon" <[email protected]> wrote:

>I've decided that this is on-topic for this NG since many of us order large
>tools that have to be delivered freight.
>
>When a truck driver drops a pallet in your garage, is he expecting a tip?
>How much? What do you think?
>
>It's never a question with the UPS guy since he is already gone before I can
>even answer the door, but the freight guy is a different story.
>
>This is why the whole concept of tipping sucks.
>
I have tipped them before...
To me, the idea of a tip other than in a restaurant, where they pretty much make
a living off tips, is that if someone does something "above and beyond", you
reward them...

If they drop off a cutoff saw at your front porch, thank them and drive on..
OTOH, if they deliver a table saw and take it where you want it, especially
where stairs are involved, I think an additional "thank you" is required..

Sometimes it can be in the form of money, sometimes a little bowl, pen, or
whatever you make in quantity is nice.. other times just a cold bottle of water
from the frig is greatly appreciated...
I think that we all want to be thanked and appreciated, don't we?

Tipping a delivery crew now might make that crew more helpful when they deliver
that next saw to someone in the group... *g*
YMWV
Mac

https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis
https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis/wood_stuff.htm

"James E. Cannon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:0l5Cg.67601$9c6.42995@dukeread11...
> I've decided that this is on-topic for this NG since many of us order
> large tools that have to be delivered freight.
>
> When a truck driver drops a pallet in your garage, is he expecting a tip?
> How much? What do you think?
>
> It's never a question with the UPS guy since he is already gone before I
> can even answer the door, but the freight guy is a different story.
>
> This is why the whole concept of tipping sucks.

I dont know if you're supposed to, but when the guy delivered my Unisaw, he
did a good job and I gave him $20. I dont think he was expecting it. I
personally tip the guys when they make a large delivery. It's pretty hot
here in Houston and they usually work hard. It feels good to bless some
one. And everyone likes to be appreciated. You never know what they may do
for the next person that day.

Darrell

On Tue, 8 Aug 2006 14:10:52 -0500, "James E. Cannon"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>I've decided that this is on-topic for this NG since many of us order large
>tools that have to be delivered freight.
>
>When a truck driver drops a pallet in your garage, is he expecting a tip?
>How much? What do you think?
>
>It's never a question with the UPS guy since he is already gone before I can
>even answer the door, but the freight guy is a different story.
>
>This is why the whole concept of tipping sucks.
>


It depends on the driver for me.

Many suppliers (i.e. Grizzly, etc) state on the website that the
freight service is roadside drop.
So when the driver helps me get the stuff to my shop I tip him. If he
is a cranky old Basxxxx who just drops it at the roadside then I
don't.
And, of course, I always ask- *Do you post or D/L copyrighted
material*

If he says *What?*....or *No*......I tip.

"Locutus" <[email protected]> wrote

> Crime rates have been steadily declining over the past 20 years....

Can you provide cites? And what country is that?

Steve

"Steve B" <[email protected]> said:

>For you to prattle on about such things just shows you
>must be a Liberal Democrat. These things happen every day.

I fully agree with Mr. Clark, and I am very, very far from being a
"Liberal Democrat". I also agree that "These things happen every day",
but, to belabor the obvious, that doesn't make it right, ethical, or
honorable.

I really cannot believe what I've been reading in this thread. Well,
yes, I can, I just don't want to. Please tell me I'm wrong, but some
of the posts in this thread give me an impression of one who is
willing, even eager and proud, to commit dishonorable, dishonest,
unethical, illegal acts for no reason other than displeasure with a
customer.

The acts that I've seen described amount to nothing less than theft.
Theft of wages from the employer by not performing those duties for
which the employer paid. Theft from the customer by depriving him/her
of goods belonging to that customer. I find such acts to be immoral
and unethical at best; dishonorable at worst.

"grappletech" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> Yeah, what this Edwin dude doesn't realize (and I had forgotten to
> mention) that this particular twisty mountain road with high cliffs was
> prone, in the winter mornings which this was, to developing black ice.
> Hyper-aggressive driving knuckleheads often kill innocent drivers, all
> so they can get to wherever they're going a few minutes faster.

So, what happened to slowing down a little more and waving the guys behind
you to pass? You're trying to be this road conscious safety dude, did that
thought somehow evaporate at the thought of some idiots tailgating you on
icy roads. Was is a one way mountain road?

"DJ Delorie" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "James E. Cannon" <[email protected]> writes:
>> When a truck driver drops a pallet in your garage, is he expecting a tip?
>> How much? What do you think?
>
> I always pick mine up at the depot. Should they tip me?

If you picking the items up at the Depot, NO. They should however give you
better pricing up front if you are paying for delivery to you house pricing.

"James E. Cannon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:0l5Cg.67601$9c6.42995@dukeread11...
> I've decided that this is on-topic for this NG since many of us order
> large tools that have to be delivered freight.
>
> When a truck driver drops a pallet in your garage, is he expecting a tip?
> How much? What do you think?
>
> It's never a question with the UPS guy since he is already gone before I
> can even answer the door, but the freight guy is a different story.
>
> This is why the whole concept of tipping sucks. \



IMHO, depends. For home delivery, the truck driver is NOT required to do
anything but bring the package to the liftgate. It's your responsibility
from there. That said, in every case when I've had a heavy delivery to my
home, the driver has taken it from the truck and wheeled it up the driveway
into my garage. I usually meet them with a hand truck and am prepared to
schlep it around but never have I had to. In this case, I always give the
driver a tip - usually $10.

Business delivery? No way - that's their job and they get paid well.

Just MHO,

Vic

"Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "grappletech" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>
>> Did you read what I had written? I was coming down a dangerous mountain
>> with tight, twisting turns and high cliffs. I was going the speed
>> limit.
>
> Yes, I read it. My answer stands. If the speed limit is 35, you won't
> go over the cliff at 36. Yes, I've driven on twisting mountain roads. If
> the posted speed is X, you can usually safely drive a X+10 mph
>

"Usually"? What happens in the "unusual" cases?

Steve

"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:KZICg.3485$%[email protected]...
>
> "Steve B" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:%hICg.92$rT5.20@fed1read01...
>>
>> Yes, and in today's society makes as much sense as getting out of your
>> car to correct that driver that just cut you off.
>
>
> I have done that too although my wife was not impressed. I did wait until
> the SOB cut me off a second time on the same street. He rolled his window
> up quickly.
>

You were lucky. Many people have been killed or seriously injured in that
exact scenario.

Steve

"grappletech" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> I was coming down a tight, twisting mountain road with huge cliffs. I was
> going the speed limit, 35mph. Some rednecks in a beat up old Chevy truck
> rush right up to my back bumper and stay there all the way down.

If you were doing the speed limit, I'd probably be riding on your ass too.
I hate it when people creep along like that.

"James E. Cannon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:0l5Cg.67601$9c6.42995@dukeread11...
> I've decided that this is on-topic for this NG since many of us order
> large tools that have to be delivered freight.
>
> When a truck driver drops a pallet in your garage, is he expecting a tip?
> How much? What do you think?
>
> It's never a question with the UPS guy since he is already gone before I
> can even answer the door, but the freight guy is a different story.
>
> This is why the whole concept of tipping sucks.
>

It depends.

I just retired as a Teamster with 37 years in my local union.

Freight rates are high. One pays dearly to have things transported from
point A to point B.



For that charge, some things are provided and expected.

BUT ................

certain things are not.

If a driver gets to a destination, and there is a load of sacks of flour, he
is not expected to unload it. If there is a long waiting time, he is not
expected to wait. He has a schedule to maintain, and he has to stick to it.
End users are expected to provide the means or labor to unload freight.

So, the short answer is .............. it depends.

If all there is to delivery is to simply drop the box in your driveway
(well, use the tail lift), no tip. If you want the box placed somewhere
special and you want to save yourself a couple of hours, sore muscles and
possible hernia, a tip is worth it. Usually any service out of the
ordinary, or a really good job gets a tip. That tip mostly depends on
attitude. If it is at a dock where all they do is drive up, and someone
pallet jacks it off, no tip.

Most drivers disdain household deliveries as they usually involve doing more
than is actually required of them in the scope of their employment.

In those cases, a little grease works wonders.

Steve

When I drove the cab the shift was mostly from mid-night to 8:00 am in
a fairly small West Virginia college town (Morgantown). This was a
truly crappy shift that mostly got me bums and drunks or drunk bums. I
never knew that the government gave out transportation vouchers to
bums before as part of their welfare. Needless to say, the Government
didn't tip and neither did the bums or drunken bums. Some of the plain
old drunks did. That was almost 30 years ago and just thinking about
it brings back some disgusting feelings. Man, I hated that job, but I
guess it put food on the table for the wife and kids while I was in
school.

Dave Hall

On 11 Aug 2006 05:51:50 -0700, "brianlanning" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Everyone who's ever been a cab drivers says that. I think it would be
>a cool job to have for a short while. You'd meet a lot of people while
>learning the streets *really* well. You probably see a lot of weird
>stuff though. I guess it's easy to burn out quickly.
>
>I just finished a year long contract in downtown chicago. The client
>was in such a bad location that I had to take a cab almost every day to
>go to lunch.
>
>brian
>
>Dave Hall wrote:
>> On 11 Aug 2006 05:02:18 -0700, "brianlanning" <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>> I have only taken a cab a few times and always tipped, but that may be
>> because I drove a cab for a year or so as a third job while in college
>> and it was definitely the worst job I have ever had.

Tue, Aug 8, 2006, 2:10pm (EDT-1) [email protected] (James=A0E.=A0Cannon)
doth query:
I've decided that this is on-topic for this NG since many of us order
large tools that have to be delivered freight.
When a truck driver drops a pallet in your garage, is he expecting a
tip? How much? What do you think? <snip>

If he drops off, then no, it's his job; that's what he's paid to
do.

However, if the guy went out of his way to assist me in some way,
doing something that is obviously "not" part of his job, then yes, I
would consider a tip appropriate.



JOAT
Teamwork is very important. It gives you someone to blame.

Steve B wrote:
<SNIP>
>
> I saw that BTW, in a restaurant on I10 in Victorville.
>
> Steve
>
>

The I10 in Victorville? The 10 would be about 30 miles to the south of
Victorville, through San Berdoo.

Glen

"Steve B" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:iOqCg.36$rT5.6@fed1read01...
>

>> --John
>
> I'm happily retired. You need to get those rose colored glasses checked
> for a new strength. Your view of reality does not coincide with the real
> thing.
>
> Yes, life's not fair, and there's no justice in the world, and some things
> are just not right. For you to prattle on about such things just shows
> you must be a Liberal Democrat. These things happen every day.
>
> Steve

Well you can fall into the attitude that you apparently have or had. It
certainly is easy. I was there once when I was very young and ran a tire
store. I was able to get past it and retired at 40 from the automotive
industry. A good and successful salesman or representative has to swallow
his pride on occasion and try to see it from his customers point if view.
Back in the mid 80's I was the Service Sales Manager for a large Oldsmobile
dealer in Houston. We typically saw 350 to 400 customers a week and I would
say that probably 20% had a gripe of beef about something and 99.9% of the
time the gripe was justified. We had one of the best customer satisfaction
ratings in the city and we had a 3rd party contact every customer after we
had worked on his car. My service advisors received an extra $500 bonus
each month that his customers gave him a 95% or better service satisfaction
rating. I got an extra $1000 bonus for each month that the service
advisors average score was 95% or better. I never missed that $1000 bonus.
With every employee that I hired I explained that the customer is the person
that regulates your paycheck. Keep him happy and we both will be happy.
Why were 20% of the customers unsatisfied then they came to our dealership?
Mostly because they were driving a Detroit built car that no other local
dealership could fix.

"Locutus" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>>
>> Dave
>
> I would agree with you there, but none of those things were ever
> "criminal". If anything, a lot of things that are criminal today were not
> 30 years ago.
>

Why do you suppose there are more criminal laws today than 30 years ago????

"brianlanning" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> After reading the entire thread, I'm sort of shocked by most of the
> opinions.
>
> It's likely that I'm making a lot more than the delivery guy. So for
> me, $20 to make his day and to encourage him to place the machine in my
> garage and wait for me to unpack it is a small price to pay. I know
> for a lot of people cash is (their) king. But for me, I never let it
> get in the way of treating people right. For me, the $20 is not too
> significant, i'll never miss it, and probably means more to the
> delivery guy that it does to me. And before you think I was born in to
> money or something, I was the child of a single mother in a trailer
> park and took seven years to pay my own way through college while
> working two jobs and raising three children.
>
> As for the restaurant, I try to leave 20% unless I have to get my own
> food, then it's less.
>
> If you want to see the power of tipping, consider this: I have soon to
> be nine children. When I take most of them to a restaurant I've never
> been to, the waitresses fight because no one wants our table. But if I
> tip my normal 20%, the next time, they fight because they want our
> table.
>
> The same is true for the delivery guy. If I continue to buy grizzly
> machines, there's a good chance that the same saia delivery guy will
> bring me the machine. In the past, I could tell that some of the
> drivers were jealous of my shop, either because of things they said, or
> just the look on their face. I think the $20 in this case does several
> things. From an interpersonal relationship standpoint, it ensures that
> they'll remember me the next time. It (most likely) ensures good
> service this time. It brightens their day. And from a practical
> standpoint, it may prevent them from showing up at 3am to clean out the
> shop.
>
> You might view this as an extortion payment, but I tend to think of it
> as good people skills.
>
> James E. Cannon wrote:

I agree.

Steve

"David" <[email protected]> wrote

> Thank gawd I never had anyone like you working for me...you've got a
> serious attitude problem and are most likely both passive aggressive AND
> antisocial. Now go back to your destruction derby...
>
>
> Dave

If you did, you never knew it. Freight crews are generally an pretty tight
and independent lot.

Destruction derby? WTF does that mean? I'm happily retired.

Steve

Steve B wrote:
> "David" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> James E. Cannon wrote:
>>
>>> It's not that I felt so grateful that I "wanted" to tip (I already paid
>>> $125 for shipping), I just don't want to be seen as a cheapskate and
>>> maybe pay for it later with late/damaged shipments if I do business with
>>> the same driver again.
>> Isn't that rather cynical? I mean really--expecting that the SAME driver
>> is going to damage upcoming shipments to you purposely and vindictively,
>> because you didn't pay him "protection"?? Good grief, man, that's not how
>> it works! If you go to a restaurant and order a couple of $35+ meals for
>> you and the missus and leave a $5 tip, THAT'S considered being a
>> cheapskate, as anyone paying for that expensive of a meal can certainly
>> afford a 50% tip.
>>
>> Dave
>
> Sorry, Dave. That's not how it works. I worked conventions in Las Vegas
> for a lot of years. Repeat customers.
>
> You had one yokel this year that stiffed you after going all out for them,
> and next year, attitude was different. The companies are limited to a $50
> limit on lost/damaged freight. You could run your tines through a box when
> no one was looking, the exhibitor could lose many thousands of dollars in
> exhibits, and the culprit was never found. Or, you put an "empty" sticker
> on a full box, and it goes to the boneyard. Cost of retrieval, about two
> grand.
>
> We gave good service. We were paid well. But a stiff is a stiff when
> someone gets more than they pay for. Or intentionally screws you.
>
> Paybacks are a bitch.
>
> And they're so easy.
>
> Steve
>
>
Thank gawd I never had anyone like you working for me...you've got a
serious attitude problem and are most likely both passive aggressive AND
antisocial. Now go back to your destruction derby...


Dave

"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote

A good and successful salesman or representative has to swallow
> his pride on occasion and try to see it from his customers point if view.

I saw a cute cartoon: Man talking to a lady at a complaints desk.

Man says, Lady, if we let you keep the merchandise, refund all your money,
AND shoot the salesman, then would you be happy?

"James E. Cannon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:0l5Cg.67601$9c6.42995@dukeread11...
> I've decided that this is on-topic for this NG since many of us order
> large tools that have to be delivered freight.
>
> When a truck driver drops a pallet in your garage, is he expecting a tip?
> How much? What do you think?
>
> It's never a question with the UPS guy since he is already gone before I
> can even answer the door, but the freight guy is a different story.
>
> This is why the whole concept of tipping sucks.
>

Not necessary as you have paid for the service. I assure you that when he
delivers to a regular retail store he does not get a tip.
However if you feel grateful enough, by all means tip the guy. I

"grappletech" <[email protected]> wrote in message

> Yeah, what this Edwin dude doesn't realize (and I had forgotten to
> mention) that this particular twisty mountain road with high cliffs was
> prone, in the winter mornings which this was, to developing black ice.
> Hyper-aggressive driving knuckleheads often kill innocent drivers, all
> so they can get to wherever they're going a few minutes faster. Ever
> hear of leaving your house on time? So you don't have to speed?


OK, now you are changing the circumstances. With rain, fog, ice, etc, sure,
you have to slow down. I'm talking about normal daylight dry conditions.

No, I don't have to drive fast, it is a choice I make. My normal commute is
10 mile of highway at +5, another 10 miles of secondary at +5, another few
miles of a different secondary at +15. It does not matter if I'm early or
late, I drive the same way.

Steve B wrote:
> "David" <[email protected]> wrote
>
>> I think you are wasting your breath. Steve is a malcontent who suffers
>> from poor self esteem, and the chip on his shoulder grows every time he
>> makes a delivery and isn't showered with money for doing his job. Being
>> the wimp that he is, he tries to intimidate everyone here into thinking
>> that if you don't tip, your next delivery is going to be destroyed by the
>> big, bad teamster character who handles your goods.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>
> No, Dave. I'm retired.
>
> If you will read my last post, perhaps it will answer where I was coming
> from.
>
> I gave good service to good people. I did lots of things for free,
> including many things that were WAAAAY over and above the scope of my job
> description. I also had a way of dealing with greedy idiots that were
> trying to get a lot more than they paid for.
>
> Steve
>
>
Maybe I took your previous posts wrong? I thought you were coming from
a "let's show them how well I can screw them over" place because I'm a
rough and tumble Teamster and don't screw with me! If that's not the
case, that's good, and I withdraw my criticisms. :)

Dave

"Locutus" <[email protected]> wrote

> It's the managers fault because you don't like kids???
>
> I would have probably shared the opinion of the manager.
>

Huh? They're running around doing that scream that feels like an ice pick
in your ear, and you think I don't like kids?

I have kids.

I have grandkids.

And we don't let them be a PITA to others, and we sure as hell don't let
them run all over the place in public establishments acting like screaming
heathens.

Steve

"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "James E. Cannon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:0l5Cg.67601$9c6.42995@dukeread11...
>> I've decided that this is on-topic for this NG since many of us order
>> large tools that have to be delivered freight.
>>
>> When a truck driver drops a pallet in your garage, is he expecting a tip?
>> How much? What do you think?
>>
>> It's never a question with the UPS guy since he is already gone before I
>> can even answer the door, but the freight guy is a different story.
>>
>> This is why the whole concept of tipping sucks.
>>
>
> Not necessary as you have paid for the service. I assure you that when he
> delivers to a regular retail store he does not get a tip.
> However if you feel grateful enough, by all means tip the guy. I

I understand the difference when delivering to a business. I receive
shipments via semi at work all the time (*BIG* computers) and obviously
don't even consider tipping them. It just seems different when it's a home
delivery since I don't have a loading dock or forklift.

It's not that I felt so grateful that I "wanted" to tip (I already paid $125
for shipping), I just don't want to be seen as a cheapskate and maybe pay
for it later with late/damaged shipments if I do business with the same
driver again.

Locutus wrote:
> "Steve B" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:ForCg.44$rT5.25@fed1read01...
>> "Locutus" <[email protected]> wrote
>>
>>> It's the managers fault because you don't like kids???
>>>
>>> I would have probably shared the opinion of the manager.
>>>
>> Huh? They're running around doing that scream that feels like an ice pick
>> in your ear, and you think I don't like kids?
>>
>> I have kids.
>>
>> I have grandkids.
>>
>> And we don't let them be a PITA to others, and we sure as hell don't let
>> them run all over the place in public establishments acting like screaming
>> heathens.
>>
>> Steve
>
> If they did, would that be the establishments fault or the parents fault?
>
>
Unruly patrons who ruin the experience of other diners should be shown
the door, IMHO.

Dave

"Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:WlxCg.3371$%[email protected]...

>>
>> Smart guy.
>
> Not really. Some customers are not profitable and you are better off
> without them. Some can be made profitable, some, a very few, are just
> assholes that cannot be tamed and you just get rid of them.
>

Yeah I think so. While you may not want to do business with them if you
treat them like others have suggested, they can do a lot of harm to your
business and steer potential customers away. A bad customer that is not
handled properly can very quickly turn into a nightmare even if you never
see him again.
Take the high road and treat all of them, good or bad, with the same respect
that you would expect.

"W Canaday" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 09 Aug 2006 08:48:32 -0700, Steve B wrote:
>
>> You cannot please some customers. That guy that said, "The customer is
>> always right" was full of it.
>>
>> Steve
>
> Maybe the customer isn't always right, but he's always the customer. If
> the money doesn't leave his pocket it never arrives in mine.

I know some girls who have that same attitude. And they will do whatever it
takes to make that happen. I won't.

Steve

"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Steve B" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:UiNCg.127$rT5.4@fed1read01...
>>
>> "B A R R Y" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> Leon wrote:
>>>> A good and successful salesman or representative has to swallow his
>>>> pride on occasion and try to see it from his customers point if view.
>>>
>>>
>>> Trying to understand other sides and views isn't a bad overall life
>>> strategy.
>>
>> Only if it immobilizes you to the point that you cannot then go and do
>> the right thing.
>>
>> Steve
>
> HUH?
>

People overthink things. "What will the other person think?" "How will I
look if I do this or that?" So, they do nothing, because they are
immobilized. They do nothing. When deep down inside they know the right
thing to do, but can't because they are restrained by the "what ifs" placed
on them.

Steve

"grappletech" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>>>>> The parents were mirror images of the children.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> All the more reason to explain proper public behavior to the
>>>> parents.
>>>
>>> I'm sorry. I have never had a talent for communicating with idiots.
>>> They don't understand me, and I can't lower myself to their level no
>>> matter what the purpose.
>>>
>>> Steve
>>
>>
>> It does take balls.
>
>
> Combination of nature and nurture results in bad behaving brats; kids
> end up like the parents. If you were to confront the parents, they'd
> probably laugh at you or tell you to go to hell or tell you to mind your
> own business. But in a civilized society, parents raising
> hellions/brats is everyone's business. Because we're going to be the
> ones paying for a lot of these brats when they get older. When they get
> knocked up by other losers and then get on welfare/section 8/ssi/food
> stamps/medicaid, etc.. Or if they go nuts or get on drugs, then they'll
> be declared "mentally ill" and get an SSI check/Medicaid/Section 8
> monthly. Bad parenting costs taxpayers lots of money.
>
>

I think there needs to be a study done to determine why idiots are so
fertile. Maybe because they don't work a lot, and have lots of time on
their hands to screw?

Steve

"Steve B" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:CtrCg.45$rT5.20@fed1read01...
>
> "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote
>
> A good and successful salesman or representative has to swallow
>> his pride on occasion and try to see it from his customers point if view.
>
> I saw a cute cartoon: Man talking to a lady at a complaints desk.
>
> Man says, Lady, if we let you keep the merchandise, refund all your money,
> AND shoot the salesman, then would you be happy?


LOL...I actually used that tactic on occasion and it really works well.
Sometimes coming from left field with a comment defuses the situation.
One of my service advisors introduced me to one of his better customers one
day. He called me in my office and asked that I come and meet Ms. So n So.
The 2 of them were actually in on this little meeting together.

Mr. Leon, I would like you to meet a good customer of mine and let you know
that she has been having a problem getting an intermittent problem resolved.
I stood there nodding my head and listening and looking at her as he went on
to say, Mr. Leon, I told Ms. So n So not to worry as her satisfaction was
our goal and that we were going to resolve the problem with her car even if
it TOOK EVERY PENNEY THAT SHE HAD. I almost got whip lash as
I turned my head and stared directly at my service advisor in disbelief.

Ms. So n So was the first to crack up laughing. She was only there to get
an oil change. Whew!

"Tim Douglass" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 09 Aug 2006 06:51:22 -0400, "J. Clarke"
> <[email protected]> wrote:

> Well, in all the restaurants I ever cooked in neither I nor any other
> person in the kitchen ever saw a penny of the tips. The waiters in one
> place used to moan about only making $20-$30 an hour in tips (back in
> the 70's!) while as the lead line cook I only made about $6.

I have a nephew that was working to become a Su Chef and had been in the
business since the early 90's until recently. When I asked him several
years ago about tips for the cooking staff he simply laughed. This is in
Houston.

"Steve B" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:%hICg.92$rT5.20@fed1read01...
>
> Yes, and in today's society makes as much sense as getting out of your car
> to correct that driver that just cut you off.


I have done that too although my wife was not impressed. I did wait until
the SOB cut me off a second time on the same street. He rolled his window
up quickly.

"Prometheus" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 9 Aug 2006 17:32:47 -0700, "Steve B" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>>You have seen NOTHING in the way of paddling unless you have visited
>>foreign
>>countries where caning is allowed.
>>
>>It is administered with a wet piece of cane about 1/4" in diameter and
>>about
>>five feet long. If the person administering the caning is thought to hold
>>back, he gets twice the number of lashes. They swing for the cheap seats,
>>believe me.
>>
>>They do it on bare hindsides and backs. The backs of the thighs. People
>>being whipped scream and dance from foot to foot. They void all over
>>themselves. Their screams are every bit as piercing as any two year old
>>girl's.
>>
>>And most don't repeat the experiences.
>>
>>Too bad it is not used in the US.
>
> On guys who won't do their jobs, I'd hope.

Yeah. Glad I'm retired.

Steve

"Locutus" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> . As a result, see see higher crime rates. Some one needs to help teach
>> our children right from wrong and it is a 24 hour a day job.
>
> Crime rates have been steadily declining over the past 20 years....
>

Sure, we've redefined crimes. Society now accepts bad behavior

"Steve B" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:mtnCg.16424$RD.125@fed1read08...
>>
>
> I have found out some things from dealing with the public.

As have I.

> Most people are good honest people.

Correct

> Most people appreciate good hard work and effort.

Correct

> Some people are angry at the world, and no matter what you do, they will
> be mad at you.

Correct

>
> Some people cannot be satisfied because of their anger.

Correct

> Some people just cannot be satisfied no matter what you do.

Correct

> Some people are dishonest and take great delight at screwing over others.

Correct

> You cannot please some customers.

Correct

That guy that said, "The customer is
> always right" was full of it.

Not really. The customer is always correct if you want to keep him as a
customer. Some times you have to just swallow you pride and get past it.
The customer is always correct is a state of mind not a reality.

In article <[email protected]>, "no(SPAM)
vasys" <"no(SPAM)vasys"@adelphia.net> says...
> J. Clarke wrote:
> > W Canaday wrote:
> >>I managed for Dominos Pizza in Detroit and that WAS the guarantee.
> >>
> >>If we shanked the pizza
> >
> >
> > ??? Not heard that expression. I've heard "shank" as in "stab" and "shank"
> > as in "ride shank's mare" meaning "walk" but I'm having difficulty
> > associating either with a pizza.
>
> Think "golf".
>
> "The shank is the portion or part of an iron where the club face and
> hosel meet. When a golfer hits the ball in that area of the club head it
> produces a unwanted ball reaction which is called and widely accepted as
> a "shank."
>
> http://www.topendsports.com/sport/golf/shank.htm

I thought it was from football - when a punter kicks the ball off his
leg instead of his foot, the lower leg being the shank, and the ball
wobbling off randomly to one side or the other with much less
height and distance than normal. But maybe football took the term
from golf?



--
John

IMHO It's not a requirement to tip anyone in restaurant or other, the tip
is a gratuity to show how much you appreciate what they have done. I have
been on both sides here I used to deliver products to homes and businesses.
I got and I have given tips, I delivered furniture for a few years and it
was really appreciated. For me it depends on the amount of effort or
service that the delivery person or service person puts in. I will never go
back to Outback for example because they told me that I had to pay at least
X amount for a tip. That's crap, if you get good service which we did not
but we were going to tip some anyways then you get a good tip. It's a
gratuity your saying thanks and how much you appreciate it. In effect it's
all up to you. Of coarse this IMHO.


opinions are like A@#wholes everyone has one! Including me :-)

Al




"James E. Cannon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:0l5Cg.67601$9c6.42995@dukeread11...
> I've decided that this is on-topic for this NG since many of us order
> large tools that have to be delivered freight.
>
> When a truck driver drops a pallet in your garage, is he expecting a tip?
> How much? What do you think?
>
> It's never a question with the UPS guy since he is already gone before I
> can even answer the door, but the freight guy is a different story.
>
> This is why the whole concept of tipping sucks.
>

> meal can certainly afford a 50% tip.
>
> Dave
BIG TYPO!!! make that a 20% tip...

James E. Cannon wrote:

> It's not that I felt so grateful that I "wanted" to tip (I already paid $125
> for shipping), I just don't want to be seen as a cheapskate and maybe pay
> for it later with late/damaged shipments if I do business with the same
> driver again.
>
>
Isn't that rather cynical? I mean really--expecting that the SAME
driver is going to damage upcoming shipments to you purposely and
vindictively, because you didn't pay him "protection"?? Good grief,
man, that's not how it works! If you go to a restaurant and order a
couple of $35+ meals for you and the missus and leave a $5 tip, THAT'S
considered being a cheapskate, as anyone paying for that expensive of a
meal can certainly afford a 50% tip.

Dave

"James E. Cannon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:GF5Cg.67602$9c6.1565@dukeread11...

>
> I understand the difference when delivering to a business. I receive
> shipments via semi at work all the time (*BIG* computers) and obviously
> don't even consider tipping them. It just seems different when it's a
> home delivery since I don't have a loading dock or forklift.

Even with out lift gates or fork lifts I too have received stock on a daily
basis at a business. For the most part a loading dock and fork lift at a
delivery location is a luxury mor most delivery drivers.


> It's not that I felt so grateful that I "wanted" to tip (I already paid
> $125 for shipping), I just don't want to be seen as a cheapskate and maybe
> pay for it later with late/damaged shipments if I do business with the
> same driver again.

The driver will pay if you will receive a damaged shipment. I would not
worry about it unless he went out of his way to help you out. Otherwise, he
is just doing his job.

Any freight shipping I have ever priced has several prices. The cheapest is
to a business with a loading dock and a means to unload such as a towmotor.
The most expensive is to a home that requires a liftgate delivery. This is
what most home delivery freight delivery's consist of. You pay a premium
price for this and to me requires no tip. I picked up a floor model drill
press once at the freight terminal and they charged me for the phone call to
come get it and for the part of a day that it sat at their dock. I loaded it
myself into my truck with no help.



"henry" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I give 20% to wait staff because I know they make a couple of bucks an
> hour and depend on it. Not to mention the time setting up or clean up
> making no tips. If outback gave me lousy food I might resort to 15%.
> but that is wrong because it proably was the kitchen fault and not the
> wait staff. The driver on the other hand is making a decent living and
> not dependent on tips. The house delivery is charged extra. Even UPS
> charges more for home delivery.Of course some one going the extra mile
> in service would get a tip. My only confusion is tip at a buffet. I
> think 10% because they can cover at least twice as many people.
>

"Prometheus" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 9 Aug 2006 08:53:19 -0700, "Steve B" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>>Uh, signing it off as delivered, and dropping it in the river? Marking it
>>"refused - return to sender" and scribbling a signature? Marking
>>"unloading
>>dock closed" - "return to terminal"? Spilling a can of oil on it, and
>>marking "hazardous material leaking from crate"?
>>
>>Need I go on?
>>
>>Every company has rules regarding handling and delivery. Any good freight
>>man knows how to hurt a "customer" who is a PITA.
>
> Steve,
>
> I don't know what constitutes a PITA for you, but I don't make much
> money at my day job- in fact, every major (and most minor) tool
> purchases I've ever made came from doing extra work on nights and
> weekends. It took 9 weeks of working 5 ten hour days at my regular
> job and 2 additional 14 hour days a week doing remodeling on the side
> for me to buy my lathe and tablesaw. Now, I didn't get them
> delievered because the charges cost too much for my budget- but if I
> had, I would not only have had to pay a company a day's wages, but
> also try and get 500 pounds of cast iron off the back of a semi in
> each case while the driver sat and thought about was an ass I was for
> not having a forklift in my garage for that once-every-5-years
> delivery.
>
> The long and short of it is that getting the stuff delievered hurts
> enough- without some asshole trying to wreck the stuff you busted your
> hump for. Like I said, I don't know what you're considering a PITA,
> but your attitude is completely nuts. It's not that I *won't* tip a
> driver- but after paying a grand for a tool, and another $200 to have
> someone deliver it, sometimes people *can't* tip. That's not being an
> jerk, that's trying to make sure you can eat that week.

For you, and the group, I'm not really even talking about the run of the
mill small business and household delivery world.

I was merely commenting on the worst of the worst in one of the most hectic
locations in the world for freight handling. At MAJOR conventions. The
ones with 300,000 attendees. Companies that showed up with 47 semis of
freight. And some of the small men and minds who try every day to get
around the rules and the small guys to save a buck and get more than they
paid for.

Greedy types.

Although it may seem like a simple question, do I tip a driver or not, it is
not. Attitude, special conditions, extra help, kindness, lots of variables
come into play, and each man picks his own way to handle things.

Yes, a person is entitled to have his stuff delivered. No tip necessary.

When it goes over that line, and they want you to wait, or unload it, or put
it somewhere special that requires all sorts of gyrations, or then come back
and move it over there, or lots of other things that some people expect you
to do for free, that's when it gets interesting.

Sorry I wasn't more specific in my explanation. Having a drill press
delivered to your house is different than an environment that has 2,000
semis full of freight to move in, then move out four or five days later. My
job, position, and responsibilities were light years away from what was
being discussed. And those who have never worked in that environment don't
understand what I was talking about.

I apologize.

Steve

"no(SPAM)vasys" <"no(SPAM)vasys"@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> James E. Cannon wrote:
>
>> I've decided that this is on-topic for this NG since many of us order
>> large tools that have to be delivered freight.
>>
>> When a truck driver drops a pallet in your garage, is he expecting a tip?
>> How much? What do you think?
>>
>> It's never a question with the UPS guy since he is already gone before I
>> can even answer the door, but the freight guy is a different story.
>>
>> This is why the whole concept of tipping sucks.
>
> It depends on what you paid for. For most freight deliveries the driver
> is responsible for delivering the item only to the back of the truck. It
> is the receiver's responsibility from there.
>
> Unless the delivery contract stated that the drive was responsible to
> deliver the item to a specific location I would tip the driver if he
> helped off load the item and put it in my garage.
>
> --
> Jack Novak
> Buffalo, NY - USA
> [email protected]
> (Remove -SPAM- to send email)

OMIGAWD. A lucid reasonable human being!

"Locutus" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Steve B" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:6dJCg.106$rT5.85@fed1read01...
>>
>> "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:KZICg.3485$%[email protected]...
>>>
>>> "Steve B" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:%hICg.92$rT5.20@fed1read01...
>>>>
>>>> Yes, and in today's society makes as much sense as getting out of your
>>>> car to correct that driver that just cut you off.
>>>
>>>
>>> I have done that too although my wife was not impressed. I did wait
>>> until the SOB cut me off a second time on the same street. He rolled
>>> his window up quickly.
>>>
>>
>> You were lucky. Many people have been killed or seriously injured in
>> that exact scenario.
>>
>> Steve
>
> I wouldn't consider it lucky. You probably have about a good of chance of
> winning the lottery as you do getting killed for confronting someone about
> cutting you off....
>
> People just don't have any stones anymore. :)
>

Yeah. And I don't see a lot of old folks homes for pirates, gangsters, or
badasses, either.

Steve

"Steve B" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> Yes, I read it. My answer stands. If the speed limit is 35, you won't
>> go over the cliff at 36. Yes, I've driven on twisting mountain roads.
>> If the posted speed is X, you can usually safely drive a X+10 mph
>>
>
> "Usually"? What happens in the "unusual" cases?
>
> Steve

There are times that the speed limit is near the real road limit.

There is also a big difference between driving a little over the speed limit
and driving irresponsibly or recklessly. I don't weave in and out of
traffic, nor do I drive in an unsafe manner as my driving record will bear
out.

"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "grappletech" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>>
> Snip
>
> I attended both Texas and California schools throughout the
>> 1970's/1980's (divorced parents). In Texas, if someone gave the teacher
>> continual lip/disrespect/talking/disrupting, etc., one of the Vice
>> Principals would come down and swat their asses out in the hall. Guess
>> what? It works. I RARELY saw any bad behavior in TX schools.
>
> I went to Texas schools in the 60's and early 70's. I can attest that the
> paddle kept every thing in check. The 3' paddle with holes drilled in it
> would literally lift you up of your feet and it contacted your behind
> side.
>
> My son grafuated from HS here in Houston in 2005 and I can tell you that
> for a long time now that the paddle is now a legend.
>
> Very unfortunate.
>

You have seen NOTHING in the way of paddling unless you have visited foreign
countries where caning is allowed.

It is administered with a wet piece of cane about 1/4" in diameter and about
five feet long. If the person administering the caning is thought to hold
back, he gets twice the number of lashes. They swing for the cheap seats,
believe me.

They do it on bare hindsides and backs. The backs of the thighs. People
being whipped scream and dance from foot to foot. They void all over
themselves. Their screams are every bit as piercing as any two year old
girl's.

And most don't repeat the experiences.

Too bad it is not used in the US.

Steve

I heard and remembered an explanation from a boss years
ago: "The customer may not always be right, but, he is
always the customer."

John

--
"grappletech" <[email protected]> wrote in
message news:[email protected]...
| >> You cannot please some customers.
| >
| > Correct
| >
| > That guy that said, "The customer is
| >> always right" was full of it.
| >
| > Not really. The customer is always correct if you
want to keep him as
| > a customer. Some times you have to just swallow
you pride and get
| > past it. The customer is always correct is a state
of mind not a
| > reality.
|
| <snipped>
|

"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Steve B wrote:
>
>>
>> "Tex" <tex@my_isp.net> wrote
>>
>>> IMHO, it's your choice and consider tips as nothing more than wages a
>>> customer pays other peoples' help. It's your money; do as you wish. As
>>> for me, I figure they're already getting paid by somebody else to do a
>>> job. If they don't like their salary, they can bargain for a larger one
>>> or change jobs. Hard nosed? Perhaps? So be it!
>>
>> I can tell you never ran into a real freight man. They have the power to
>> send your stuff to Cleveland if they want to. And do all sorts of things
>> to hold up your business, freight, and heartbeat.
>>
>> I used to love running into your types. I was a Teamster, and knew 98
>> ways to make your shit disappear for long periods of time.
>
> OK, tell us _one_ way for a truck driver to "make your shit disappear for
> long periods of time" without having anybody ask how it got off the truck
> between loading and delivery.
>>
>> Steve
>
> --
> --John
> to email, dial "usenet" and validate
> (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Uh, signing it off as delivered, and dropping it in the river? Marking it
"refused - return to sender" and scribbling a signature? Marking "unloading
dock closed" - "return to terminal"? Spilling a can of oil on it, and
marking "hazardous material leaking from crate"?

Need I go on?

Every company has rules regarding handling and delivery. Any good freight
man knows how to hurt a "customer" who is a PITA.

Steve

Steve

"Fly-by-Night CC" <[email protected]> wrote in
message
news:[email protected]...
| In article
<[email protected]>,
| David <[email protected]> wrote:
|
|
|<snip>
|
| I believe the same is true of most things - if you
are looking
| for poor behavior, you'll spot it. You'll become
overly critical and
| judgmental since it's something you dislike -
generalizing that kids | today are out of control
merely because you have become fixated |on every
instance you can spot.
| --
| Owen Lowe
| The Fly-by-Night Copper Company
| _________
|
| There is no "W" in Leadership.

I'm not sure I agree. But, then maybe I do.

When you turn off the TV news, focus only on the Sports
section of the newspaper, cut some wood, socialize with
your family, friends and neighbors, the kids you know
aren't bad at all. (NIMBY)

But the kids in another neighborhood, another city,
another state are the ones with poor grades and
juvenile records. So let us just raise taxes and pass
laws

Jack

--
But I'm not paranoid but they are after me.

"New Wave Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> New Wave Dave wrote:
>>> <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>
>> Thanks for the guffaw!
>>
>> I know what you mean...I had to pay the company that delivered my saw
>> another $70 for the liftgate, although there was no additional poundage
>> fee.
>
> The charge was $57 and something computed at fifty-something cents per
> pound.
> Is it a Teamster thing?
> --
> "New Wave" Dave In Houston

And so, what if it is??? Teamsters bring you more than your saw you know.
Get a grip!
>
>

> Exactly. So to say that we have become more tolerant of crime and that is
> the reason crime is down is absurd.

Could the crime rate be "down" because now there are so many criminals in
the system that they plea bargain every offense down?

In your town alone, how many criminals have gotten off light, or had their
offense pled down, and gone free with time served?

That is why the figures are down. The formula has been changed.

You can find statistics to support any conclusion.

Steve

"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Leon wrote:
>
> New Orleans and Houston are not "a whole". Violent crime in the United
> States has declined about 35 percent since 1991.
> <http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/ucr.htm>.


Well I stand corrected then. Where it is down I suspect the kids were
properly disciplined.

"B A R R Y" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Leon wrote:
>> A good and successful salesman or representative has to swallow his pride
>> on occasion and try to see it from his customers point if view.
>
>
> Trying to understand other sides and views isn't a bad overall life
> strategy.

Only if it immobilizes you to the point that you cannot then go and do the
right thing.

Steve

"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Steve B" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:bKqCg.34$rT5.31@fed1read01...
>>
>> We had two OBNOXIOUS children in a booth near us at a Mexican restaurant
>> one night. Screaming and running around. I have been going to this
>> restaurant chain for decades. When I complained to the manager, she
>> said, "This IS a family restaurant." I did the meanest nastiest thing I
>> could. I told her that she would get no more of my business, that I would
>> bring no more family or guests to the restaurant, and would not suggest
>> it when asked for a good Mexican restaurant.
>
> Screw the manager, I tell the parents face to face and that usually works
> remarkabley well.

The parents were mirror images of the children.

"grappletech" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I think if he's a CDL truck driver, he's making a decent salary already, so
> no tip necessary. Unless, perhaps, you're wealthy. Then a tip may be in
> order. At least offer the guy a Coke or a bottle of water, but usually
> they turn refreshments down politely.

A CDL truck driver???? Just what the hell does that mean? A person that
drives a school bus, limo, taxi all have to have a CDL license. Having a CDL
license and driving a truck don't mean you automatically make "a decent
salary".

"Steve B" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:nGcCg.16404$RD.15886@fed1read08...
>
> I can tell you never ran into a real freight man. They have the power to
> send your stuff to Cleveland if they want to. And do all sorts of things
> to hold up your business, freight, and heartbeat.
>
> I used to love running into your types. I was a Teamster, and knew 98
> ways to make your shit disappear for long periods of time.


And some people wonder why the union has such a bad reputation. Teamsters
DO NOT have a monopoly on having the ability to screw a customer. Most
every one and every business knows how to screw his customer, however the
ones with any sense at all realize that the customer is the one that you
actually want to please.

"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:U1JCg.3486$%[email protected]...
>
> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Leon wrote:
>>
>> New Orleans and Houston are not "a whole". Violent crime in the United
>> States has declined about 35 percent since 1991.
>> <http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/ucr.htm>.
>
>
> Well I stand corrected then. Where it is down I suspect the kids were
> properly disciplined.
>

Actually, if you read the book Freakonomics, it is down where the kids were
aborted. Don't know if it's true or not, but it's definitely an interesting
theory.

the company I worked for paid us .50¢ above minimum wage that is common down
there were we used to live. but the again lol it's all up to the customer
:-) Yeah my old bosses were cheap! lol


Al


"Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:bF6Cg.4008$Pp1.557@trndny04...
>
> "James E. Cannon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:0l5Cg.67601$9c6.42995@dukeread11...
>> I've decided that this is on-topic for this NG since many of us order
>> large tools that have to be delivered freight.
>>
>> When a truck driver drops a pallet in your garage, is he expecting a tip?
>> How much? What do you think?
>
> No, he expects nothing and is paid a decent wage. I find that most
> drivers are very courteous and try to give good service. Their employers
> expect them to do this in order to sustain business with good relations.
> OTOH, if the driver does something above and beyond, sure a 5 or 10 will
> be appreciated. If he sets it in place in your garage, a $5 bill is
> probably OK, If he unpacks, sets up the tools, makes test cuts, then go
> for $10.
>

"Pete Walker" <[email protected]> wrote

> If you stiff a pizza delivery boy just make sure he isn't the same guy
> delivering your next pizza....unless you happen to like body fluids as a
> topping. :-)
>

Some sound advice I got early in life from an old timer:

Never mess with the barber or the cook.

Steve

"Steve B" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:8EcCg.16403$RD.6579@fed1read08...
>

>
> Most drivers disdain household deliveries as they usually involve doing
> more than is actually required of them in the scope of their employment.

These type workers are in every work place. Some are protected by the union
and do just what is required. Some see that the home owner is going to work
his butt off and may choose to lend assistance with a pallet jack and 3 to
5 minutes more of his time and promote good will towards his company. The
driver, like it or not, union or not, is the person that is going to leave
the biggest impression with the most important person, the customer.
Keeping in mind that the customer has paid a premium to have the goods set
on the ground a little extra effort by the driver promotes customer loyalty.
Should the customer offer a tip? Yes if the driver puts out more effort
than a minimal good will coutrisy jesture. Rolling the goods 20' up a drive
way on a pallet jack, NO. The tip should be offered if the driver put forth
a more serious effort on his part rather than if he saved the customer a lot
of work. I like to call that a courtesy towards the person that helps put
money in your pocket.

I had a BS delivered on a lift gate truck and I paid a premium for this
service. The driver sat in front of my house 10 minutes before getting out
of the truck. I asked if he would be kind oenough to put the pallet in my
garage 20' away. The graciousely said yes followed with the comment that it
was the least he could do. I offerd a tip and he declined with hte comment
that I had probably paid enough already. He got back in the truck and sat
for 10 minutes more and then left.

This truck driver BTY was a Katrina displaced resident of Lousiana and told
me that he was very fortunate to have a job.

"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "John Flatley" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>I heard and remembered an explanation from a boss years
>> ago: "The customer may not always be right, but, he is
>> always the customer."
>
>
> Smart guy.

Not really. Some customers are not profitable and you are better off without
them. Some can be made profitable, some, a very few, are just assholes
that cannot be tamed and you just get rid of them.

James E. Cannon wrote:

> I've decided that this is on-topic for this NG since many of us order large
> tools that have to be delivered freight.
>
> When a truck driver drops a pallet in your garage, is he expecting a tip?
> How much? What do you think?
>
> It's never a question with the UPS guy since he is already gone before I can
> even answer the door, but the freight guy is a different story.
>
> This is why the whole concept of tipping sucks.
>
>

It depends on what you paid for. For most freight deliveries the driver
is responsible for delivering the item only to the back of the truck.
It is the receiver's responsibility from there.

Unless the delivery contract stated that the drive was responsible to
deliver the item to a specific location I would tip the driver if he
helped off load the item and put it in my garage.

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
[email protected]
(Remove -SPAM- to send email)

"Steve B" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:OcMDg.7030$Mz3.5387@fed1read07:

>
> "Prometheus" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> On Wed, 9 Aug 2006 08:53:19 -0700, "Steve B"
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>Uh, signing it off as delivered, and dropping it in the river?
>>>Marking it "refused - return to sender" and scribbling a signature?
>>>Marking "unloading
>>>dock closed" - "return to terminal"? Spilling a can of oil on it,
>>>and marking "hazardous material leaking from crate"?
>>>
>>>Need I go on?
>>>
>>>Every company has rules regarding handling and delivery. Any good
>>>freight man knows how to hurt a "customer" who is a PITA.
>>
>> Steve,
>>
>> I don't know what constitutes a PITA for you, but I don't make much
>> money at my day job- in fact, every major (and most minor) tool
>> purchases I've ever made came from doing extra work on nights and
>> weekends. It took 9 weeks of working 5 ten hour days at my regular
>> job and 2 additional 14 hour days a week doing remodeling on the side
>> for me to buy my lathe and tablesaw. Now, I didn't get them
>> delievered because the charges cost too much for my budget- but if I
>> had, I would not only have had to pay a company a day's wages, but
>> also try and get 500 pounds of cast iron off the back of a semi in
>> each case while the driver sat and thought about was an ass I was for
>> not having a forklift in my garage for that once-every-5-years
>> delivery.
>>
>> The long and short of it is that getting the stuff delievered hurts
>> enough- without some asshole trying to wreck the stuff you busted
>> your hump for. Like I said, I don't know what you're considering a
>> PITA, but your attitude is completely nuts. It's not that I *won't*
>> tip a driver- but after paying a grand for a tool, and another $200
>> to have someone deliver it, sometimes people *can't* tip. That's not
>> being an jerk, that's trying to make sure you can eat that week.
>
> For you, and the group, I'm not really even talking about the run of
> the mill small business and household delivery world.
>
> I was merely commenting on the worst of the worst in one of the most
> hectic locations in the world for freight handling. At MAJOR
> conventions. The ones with 300,000 attendees. Companies that showed
> up with 47 semis of freight. And some of the small men and minds who
> try every day to get around the rules and the small guys to save a
> buck and get more than they paid for.
>
> Greedy types.
>
> Although it may seem like a simple question, do I tip a driver or not,
> it is not. Attitude, special conditions, extra help, kindness, lots
> of variables come into play, and each man picks his own way to handle
> things.
>
> Yes, a person is entitled to have his stuff delivered. No tip
> necessary.
>
> When it goes over that line, and they want you to wait, or unload it,
> or put it somewhere special that requires all sorts of gyrations, or
> then come back and move it over there, or lots of other things that
> some people expect you to do for free, that's when it gets
> interesting.
>
> Sorry I wasn't more specific in my explanation. Having a drill press
> delivered to your house is different than an environment that has
> 2,000 semis full of freight to move in, then move out four or five
> days later. My job, position, and responsibilities were light years
> away from what was being discussed. And those who have never worked
> in that environment don't understand what I was talking about.
>
> I apologize.
>
> Steve
>
>
>

I've been your customer. I was always appreciative of a professional in
your position. Thank you.

Patriarch

"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote
>
> A child acting like a child is normal. An adult acting like a child has
> something wrong with him at best.
>
> --
> --John

A child running through a restaurant screaming is normal behavior?

Not in my family. It is unacceptable behavior that is promptly addressed.

Steve