I did not mean to use the word copy. What I was given was the original
CDs. A friend went out of business and no longer had any use for the
product. Being a beginner with CAD and because the price was right. I
thought I would give it a try and see if I can learn it. I do
woodworking as a hobby in my retirement. Nothing is for sale. I thought
it may be interesting to use CAD to draw the boxes and what nots that I
make. It help keeps the brain cells spinning and hopefully avoid that
dreaded AZ. My shop is in the garage and I have thought about putting a
sign over the door saying "The Therapy Room". Now I may have to call
the computer "The Therapy Machine".
Anyhow, Thanks to one and all for your helpful responses and a Merry
Christmas and Happy New Year to one and all.
mike wrote:
> I did not mean to use the word copy. What I was given was the original
> CDs. A friend went out of business and no longer had any use for the
> product. Being a beginner with CAD and because the price was right. I
> thought I would give it a try and see if I can learn it. I do
> woodworking as a hobby in my retirement. Nothing is for sale. I thought
> it may be interesting to use CAD to draw the boxes and what nots that I
> make. It help keeps the brain cells spinning and hopefully avoid that
> dreaded AZ. My shop is in the garage and I have thought about putting a
> sign over the door saying "The Therapy Room". Now I may have to call
> the computer "The Therapy Machine".
> Anyhow, Thanks to one and all for your helpful responses and a Merry
> Christmas and Happy New Year to one and all.
I wasn't trying to imply anything. I'm just letting people know that
according to AutoCAD, you don't own the software that you buy. You are
simply buying a license to use it and they're being nice enought to
give you a disk which they own in perpetuity. It's against their terms
of service (and thus the law) to sell or give away the disk.
Duke of Burl wrote:
> mike wrote:
> > I did not mean to use the word copy. What I was given was the original
> > CDs. A friend went out of business and no longer had any use for the
> > product. Being a beginner with CAD and because the price was right. I
> > thought I would give it a try and see if I can learn it. I do
> > woodworking as a hobby in my retirement. Nothing is for sale. I thought
> > it may be interesting to use CAD to draw the boxes and what nots that I
> > make. It help keeps the brain cells spinning and hopefully avoid that
> > dreaded AZ. My shop is in the garage and I have thought about putting a
> > sign over the door saying "The Therapy Room". Now I may have to call
> > the computer "The Therapy Machine".
> > Anyhow, Thanks to one and all for your helpful responses and a Merry
> > Christmas and Happy New Year to one and all.
>
> I wasn't trying to imply anything. I'm just letting people know that
> according to AutoCAD, you don't own the software that you buy. You are
> simply buying a license to use it and they're being nice enought to
> give you a disk which they own in perpetuity. It's against their terms
> of service (and thus the law) to sell or give away the disk.
And that is one of the biggest bullshit ideas perpetrated by copyright
laws. As a writer, I know the value of copyright, but this licensing
horseshit is as close to outright theft as anything gets. I can just
image a note in any of my books saying the buyer doesn't own it and
can't give it away.
On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 15:04:33 GMT, "Leon"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>And surprisingly, LT street price is up to about $7to 8 hundred dollars. I
>remember upgrading back in the early 90's for $97.
>
I'm disappointed by that, but not surprised. I imaging a lot of
people/companies have decided LT is good enough, why spend the extra $
for features that may be seldom used at their facility.
"babygrand" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> AutoCAD Lite will do all of the 2D stuff you need to do, but it does not
> support 3D, nor does it have LISP, which is Autodesk's programming
> language
> for customizing AutoCAD to do macro type routines for automating certain
> tasks. Most users can use Lite and never miss the other stuff. The other
> main difference is the price. Street price of Lite should be around $500,
> while the full blown AutoCAD is closer to $3,500.
Actually LT will import 3D generated by AutoCAD and will do 3D Isometric but
not draw perspective 3D.
And surprisingly, LT street price is up to about $7to 8 hundred dollars. I
remember upgrading back in the early 90's for $97.
On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 12:19:08 -0500, Robatoy <[email protected]>
wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>,
> George Max <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> >Someone has given me a copy of AutoCad LT 2000.
>
>A copy? What is the serial number, please?
12
Just kidding.
I'm not the OP. You've got to ask him.
Yahoo search found this book:
http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=AleUb7qSzOhgYp8GXnXfHntXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTE2NGNncTJhBGNvbG8DdwRsA1dTMQRwb3MDMwRzZWMDc3IEdnRpZANGNjYzXzg4/SIG=12ne52i5r/EXP=1134749262/**http%3a//www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1556227426%3fv=glance
"Don" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "mike"> wrote
>> Someone has given me a copy of AutoCad LT 2000. I am looking for a
>> manual for this software but only see books for AutoCad 2000.
>> Does anyone know is AutoCad LT 2000 a different product from AutoCad
>> 2000? If so are the differences significant?
>
> The basic commands are the same.
> Full blown AutoCAD has many more options and can do 3D stuff.
> Be advised, AutoDesk has extreme *rules* regarding the transfers of their
> softwares.
>
Here's a lesson in the software world... Not because they wrote
conditions on a piece of paper and they call it a "license agreement",
it means they're legally entitled to enforce those conditions.
If I write on a piece of paper that I will kill you if you don't pay
for my services, even if you sign it, it will remain a murder and I
will end up in jail regardless the fact I have a contract authorizing
me to kill you. When you buy an object, you own the object. Period.
You can sell it back if you want as long as you don't keep a copy
yourself.
I'm just waiting for the day a software company will come to knock at
my door.
No wonder why all the software company are going towards applications
delivered on the web. In a near future, you won't need to install
anything on your computer, you will just need to "register" through a
website to get access to your applications. You will pay a monthly fee
based on your usage. This way software will assure themselves of
stable revenues and won't fight their own products when it comes to
upgrade. Not only that, we will lease applications so software will
become a service and not a product anymore.... A big difference
legally speaking.
Greg D.
On 29 Nov 2005 17:22:01 -0800, "Duke of Burl" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
>mike wrote:
>> I did not mean to use the word copy. What I was given was the original
>> CDs. A friend went out of business and no longer had any use for the
>> product. Being a beginner with CAD and because the price was right. I
>> thought I would give it a try and see if I can learn it. I do
>> woodworking as a hobby in my retirement. Nothing is for sale. I thought
>> it may be interesting to use CAD to draw the boxes and what nots that I
>> make. It help keeps the brain cells spinning and hopefully avoid that
>> dreaded AZ. My shop is in the garage and I have thought about putting a
>> sign over the door saying "The Therapy Room". Now I may have to call
>> the computer "The Therapy Machine".
>> Anyhow, Thanks to one and all for your helpful responses and a Merry
>> Christmas and Happy New Year to one and all.
>
>I wasn't trying to imply anything. I'm just letting people know that
>according to AutoCAD, you don't own the software that you buy. You are
>simply buying a license to use it and they're being nice enought to
>give you a disk which they own in perpetuity. It's against their terms
>of service (and thus the law) to sell or give away the disk.
I think the bottom line is this:
Companies like Autodesk and Adobe know they're not losing much revenue when
people copy Autocad and Photoshop, because chances are those people would
never buy the product anyway. People and companies who buy software to use
for work are their customers.
--
Bob
Travel and Astronomy Photos
http://www3.sympatico.ca/bomo
"Jim Giblin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:uZNjf.1846$s96.420@trndny01...
> I had taken a graduate class in internet law that dealt with software
> copyright et al issue. The software companies have extraordinary
exclusions
> for what would otherwise be normal consumer law and the courts, for what
> ever reason, have given these companies carte blanche to have you by the
> short and curlies. Software companies sell the license to use their
product
> and not the product itself. The term of the license can be delivered
inside
> a shrink wrapped box with the CD. That is, what you are buying, the terms
> of the license, do not have to be 'readable' on the outside of the box.
If
> you break the shrink wrap you are bound by the license and, in most cases,
> breaking the shrink wrap prevents you from being able to return the
product
> for a refund.
>
>
> "Greg D." <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Here's a lesson in the software world... Not because they wrote
> > conditions on a piece of paper and they call it a "license agreement",
> > it means they're legally entitled to enforce those conditions.
> >
> > If I write on a piece of paper that I will kill you if you don't pay
> > for my services, even if you sign it, it will remain a murder and I
> > will end up in jail regardless the fact I have a contract authorizing
> > me to kill you. When you buy an object, you own the object. Period.
> > You can sell it back if you want as long as you don't keep a copy
> > yourself.
> >
> > I'm just waiting for the day a software company will come to knock at
> > my door.
> >
> > No wonder why all the software company are going towards applications
> > delivered on the web. In a near future, you won't need to install
> > anything on your computer, you will just need to "register" through a
> > website to get access to your applications. You will pay a monthly fee
> > based on your usage. This way software will assure themselves of
> > stable revenues and won't fight their own products when it comes to
> > upgrade. Not only that, we will lease applications so software will
> > become a service and not a product anymore.... A big difference
> > legally speaking.
> >
> > Greg D.
> >
> >
> >
> > On 29 Nov 2005 17:22:01 -0800, "Duke of Burl" <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>mike wrote:
> >>> I did not mean to use the word copy. What I was given was the original
> >>> CDs. A friend went out of business and no longer had any use for the
> >>> product. Being a beginner with CAD and because the price was right. I
> >>> thought I would give it a try and see if I can learn it. I do
> >>> woodworking as a hobby in my retirement. Nothing is for sale. I
thought
> >>> it may be interesting to use CAD to draw the boxes and what nots that
I
> >>> make. It help keeps the brain cells spinning and hopefully avoid that
> >>> dreaded AZ. My shop is in the garage and I have thought about putting
a
> >>> sign over the door saying "The Therapy Room". Now I may have to call
> >>> the computer "The Therapy Machine".
> >>> Anyhow, Thanks to one and all for your helpful responses and a Merry
> >>> Christmas and Happy New Year to one and all.
> >>
> >>I wasn't trying to imply anything. I'm just letting people know that
> >>according to AutoCAD, you don't own the software that you buy. You are
> >>simply buying a license to use it and they're being nice enought to
> >>give you a disk which they own in perpetuity. It's against their terms
> >>of service (and thus the law) to sell or give away the disk.
> >
>
>
bob wrote:
> AutoCad LT is a stripped own version of the full-blown product. In all
> likelyhood, it won't make a bit of difference to you. The LT versions do not
> allow you to use lisp files, and if you don't know what a lisp file is, you
> probably don't need to :)
> For almost any kind of 2-D drafting, LT2000 is a fantastic tool. I use it on
> an almost daily basis at work, and it's great for some wood related things
> too...uh, but only during lunch, of course....
> The help file is pretty good, which is more than can be said for most
> software. As for a printed manual, it should have come with the program,
> unless......
>
>
What important features are missing from Autosketch, compared to LT?
"David" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> bob wrote:
>>
>>
> What important features are missing from Autosketch, compared to LT?
Autosketch is a good program too. I used it up until version 2.1.
Back then 1997 LT would Easily do Isometric drawings by comparison, and real
time zoom and pan. Those 3 items in particular gave me the incentive to go
to LT. There may be no big differences now.
AutoCad LT is a stripped own version of the full-blown product. In all
likelyhood, it won't make a bit of difference to you. The LT versions do not
allow you to use lisp files, and if you don't know what a lisp file is, you
probably don't need to :)
For almost any kind of 2-D drafting, LT2000 is a fantastic tool. I use it on
an almost daily basis at work, and it's great for some wood related things
too...uh, but only during lunch, of course....
The help file is pretty good, which is more than can be said for most
software. As for a printed manual, it should have come with the program,
unless......
--
Bob
Travel and Astronomy Photos
http://www3.sympatico.ca/bomo
"mike" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Someone has given me a copy of AutoCad LT 2000. I am looking for a
> manual for this software but only see books for AutoCad 2000.
> Does anyone know is AutoCad LT 2000 a different product from AutoCad
> 2000? If so are the differences significant?
>
"mike" <[email protected]> wrote in news:1133230158.601318.15060
@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
> Someone has given me a copy of AutoCad LT 2000. I am looking for a
> manual for this software but only see books for AutoCad 2000.
> Does anyone know is AutoCad LT 2000 a different product from AutoCad
> 2000? If so are the differences significant?
>
I do not know specifically for 2000, but for the 2006 versions, "..main
differences are that LT does not support all the 3D function of
AutoCAD2006, nor does it support the customization tools of AutoLISP and
VBA." (Quoting from a book by George Omura.) There are also minor
adjustments in how certain aspects of the program are used.
"mike" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Someone has given me a copy of AutoCad LT 2000. I am looking for a
> manual for this software but only see books for AutoCad 2000.
> Does anyone know is AutoCad LT 2000 a different product from AutoCad
> 2000? If so are the differences significant?
>
The biggest difference is that LT does not do perspective 3D. It does do
isometric, not to be confused with perspective 3D.
Go to your local book store or library as there are many books written on
AutoCAD and LT.
If you already know how to draw you may not need a manual at all. I seldom
referenced the manual.
On 29 Nov 2005 07:35:10 -0800, "Duke of Burl" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Technically, the origianal owner has a license to use the software and
>doesn't own it. If they registered it after May 1999, then it is
>illegal for them to give you the disks.
I suppose about the time the price of the software went up a lot.
In article <[email protected]>,
"mike" <[email protected]> wrote:
> I did not mean to use the word copy. What I was given was the original
> CDs.
My sincerest apologies. Whenever I see the word 'copy' and it relates to
software that I paid a whack of money for, I get miffed.
There are some very capable aftermarket books, mike. I see them often
for bargain prices on eBay, Amazon etc.
In article <[email protected]>,
George Max <[email protected]> wrote:
> >Someone has given me a copy of AutoCad LT 2000.
A copy? What is the serial number, please?
AutoCAD Lite will do all of the 2D stuff you need to do, but it does not
support 3D, nor does it have LISP, which is Autodesk's programming language
for customizing AutoCAD to do macro type routines for automating certain
tasks. Most users can use Lite and never miss the other stuff. The other
main difference is the price. Street price of Lite should be around $500,
while the full blown AutoCAD is closer to $3,500.
babygrand
"mike" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Someone has given me a copy of AutoCad LT 2000. I am looking for a
> manual for this software but only see books for AutoCad 2000.
> Does anyone know is AutoCad LT 2000 a different product from AutoCad
> 2000? If so are the differences significant?
>
"mike"> wrote
> Someone has given me a copy of AutoCad LT 2000. I am looking for a
> manual for this software but only see books for AutoCad 2000.
> Does anyone know is AutoCad LT 2000 a different product from AutoCad
> 2000? If so are the differences significant?
The basic commands are the same.
Full blown AutoCAD has many more options and can do 3D stuff.
Be advised, AutoDesk has extreme *rules* regarding the transfers of their
softwares.
Ya right!
This is just plain fuckin bullshit. You're just lying through your
teeth.
Maybe the laws in the US are all fucked up. Afterall, anybody can sue
anybody for anything. Try that in Canada...
Greg D.
On Fri, 02 Dec 2005 02:05:14 GMT, "Jim Giblin"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>I had taken a graduate class in internet law that dealt with software
>copyright et al issue. The software companies have extraordinary exclusions
>for what would otherwise be normal consumer law and the courts, for what
>ever reason, have given these companies carte blanche to have you by the
>short and curlies. Software companies sell the license to use their product
>and not the product itself. The term of the license can be delivered inside
>a shrink wrapped box with the CD. That is, what you are buying, the terms
>of the license, do not have to be 'readable' on the outside of the box. If
>you break the shrink wrap you are bound by the license and, in most cases,
>breaking the shrink wrap prevents you from being able to return the product
>for a refund.
Bull.
"Duke of Burl" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Technically, the origianal owner has a license to use the software and
> doesn't own it. If they registered it after May 1999, then it is
> illegal for them to give you the disks.
>
On 28 Nov 2005 18:09:18 -0800, "mike" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Someone has given me a copy of AutoCad LT 2000. I am looking for a
>manual for this software but only see books for AutoCad 2000.
>Does anyone know is AutoCad LT 2000 a different product from AutoCad
>2000? If so are the differences significant?
I am making the assumption that someone is giving you a program they
no longer use. When they bought it, it came in a shrink wrapped box
with a manual. Since they gave you their original disks (they did,
right?) go back and get the printed manual they no longer have any use
for.
Autocad LT is a subset of Autocad. Most features related to making 2D
drawings are there, but most or all advanced functionality is not.
That's pretty much it in a nutshell. I use the full version of
Autocad, I have no personal experience with it beyond seeing a few
boxes of it around here.
On 28 Nov 2005 18:09:18 -0800, "mike" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Someone has given me a copy of AutoCad LT 2000.
It's not freeware. It comes with a manual?
On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 09:29:41 -0600, "babygrand"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>AutoCAD Lite will do all of the 2D stuff you need to do, but it does not
>support 3D, nor does it have LISP, which is Autodesk's programming language
>for customizing AutoCAD to do macro type routines for automating certain
>tasks. Most users can use Lite and never miss the other stuff. The other
>main difference is the price. Street price of Lite should be around $500,
>while the full blown AutoCAD is closer to $3,500.
>
>babygrand
Autodesk changed the price of LT when it started its autodesk
subscription service. I think the Subscription service cost between
950.00 to 1100.00 and you get an upgrade to full blown acad with the
subscription.
LT now costs 800.00 plus.
I use acad 2006 and have never used any of the new bells and whistles
yet, I carry all my lisp routines over that I've ether written or
copied over the past 15 years. Menu's and buttons changes? no problem
I still use all the same quick commands from version to version.
I use autocad LT 2004 for some stuff.LT is just the basic version of AUTOCAD
I use Solidworks for my 3-D stuff. I use SW 2006 when doing sheetmetal stuff
and flatten it to cut and bend..........Brian
--
www.members.cox.net/bsnikitas
"Never Underestimate The Power Of Stupid People
In Large Groups!"
"mike" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Someone has given me a copy of AutoCad LT 2000. I am looking for a
> manual for this software but only see books for AutoCad 2000.
> Does anyone know is AutoCad LT 2000 a different product from AutoCad
> 2000? If so are the differences significant?
>
I had taken a graduate class in internet law that dealt with software
copyright et al issue. The software companies have extraordinary exclusions
for what would otherwise be normal consumer law and the courts, for what
ever reason, have given these companies carte blanche to have you by the
short and curlies. Software companies sell the license to use their product
and not the product itself. The term of the license can be delivered inside
a shrink wrapped box with the CD. That is, what you are buying, the terms
of the license, do not have to be 'readable' on the outside of the box. If
you break the shrink wrap you are bound by the license and, in most cases,
breaking the shrink wrap prevents you from being able to return the product
for a refund.
"Greg D." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Here's a lesson in the software world... Not because they wrote
> conditions on a piece of paper and they call it a "license agreement",
> it means they're legally entitled to enforce those conditions.
>
> If I write on a piece of paper that I will kill you if you don't pay
> for my services, even if you sign it, it will remain a murder and I
> will end up in jail regardless the fact I have a contract authorizing
> me to kill you. When you buy an object, you own the object. Period.
> You can sell it back if you want as long as you don't keep a copy
> yourself.
>
> I'm just waiting for the day a software company will come to knock at
> my door.
>
> No wonder why all the software company are going towards applications
> delivered on the web. In a near future, you won't need to install
> anything on your computer, you will just need to "register" through a
> website to get access to your applications. You will pay a monthly fee
> based on your usage. This way software will assure themselves of
> stable revenues and won't fight their own products when it comes to
> upgrade. Not only that, we will lease applications so software will
> become a service and not a product anymore.... A big difference
> legally speaking.
>
> Greg D.
>
>
>
> On 29 Nov 2005 17:22:01 -0800, "Duke of Burl" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>mike wrote:
>>> I did not mean to use the word copy. What I was given was the original
>>> CDs. A friend went out of business and no longer had any use for the
>>> product. Being a beginner with CAD and because the price was right. I
>>> thought I would give it a try and see if I can learn it. I do
>>> woodworking as a hobby in my retirement. Nothing is for sale. I thought
>>> it may be interesting to use CAD to draw the boxes and what nots that I
>>> make. It help keeps the brain cells spinning and hopefully avoid that
>>> dreaded AZ. My shop is in the garage and I have thought about putting a
>>> sign over the door saying "The Therapy Room". Now I may have to call
>>> the computer "The Therapy Machine".
>>> Anyhow, Thanks to one and all for your helpful responses and a Merry
>>> Christmas and Happy New Year to one and all.
>>
>>I wasn't trying to imply anything. I'm just letting people know that
>>according to AutoCAD, you don't own the software that you buy. You are
>>simply buying a license to use it and they're being nice enought to
>>give you a disk which they own in perpetuity. It's against their terms
>>of service (and thus the law) to sell or give away the disk.
>
You don't work for Autodesk, do you?
"Jim Giblin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:uZNjf.1846$s96.420@trndny01...
> I had taken a graduate class in internet law that dealt with software
> copyright et al issue. The software companies have extraordinary
exclusions
> for what would otherwise be normal consumer law and the courts, for what
> ever reason, have given these companies carte blanche to have you by the
> short and curlies. Software companies sell the license to use their
product
> and not the product itself. The term of the license can be delivered
inside
> a shrink wrapped box with the CD. That is, what you are buying, the terms
> of the license, do not have to be 'readable' on the outside of the box.
If
> you break the shrink wrap you are bound by the license and, in most cases,
> breaking the shrink wrap prevents you from being able to return the
product
> for a refund.
>
>
> "Greg D." <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Here's a lesson in the software world... Not because they wrote
> > conditions on a piece of paper and they call it a "license agreement",
> > it means they're legally entitled to enforce those conditions.
> >
> > If I write on a piece of paper that I will kill you if you don't pay
> > for my services, even if you sign it, it will remain a murder and I
> > will end up in jail regardless the fact I have a contract authorizing
> > me to kill you. When you buy an object, you own the object. Period.
> > You can sell it back if you want as long as you don't keep a copy
> > yourself.
> >
> > I'm just waiting for the day a software company will come to knock at
> > my door.
> >
> > No wonder why all the software company are going towards applications
> > delivered on the web. In a near future, you won't need to install
> > anything on your computer, you will just need to "register" through a
> > website to get access to your applications. You will pay a monthly fee
> > based on your usage. This way software will assure themselves of
> > stable revenues and won't fight their own products when it comes to
> > upgrade. Not only that, we will lease applications so software will
> > become a service and not a product anymore.... A big difference
> > legally speaking.
> >
> > Greg D.
> >
> >
> >
> > On 29 Nov 2005 17:22:01 -0800, "Duke of Burl" <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>mike wrote:
> >>> I did not mean to use the word copy. What I was given was the original
> >>> CDs. A friend went out of business and no longer had any use for the
> >>> product. Being a beginner with CAD and because the price was right. I
> >>> thought I would give it a try and see if I can learn it. I do
> >>> woodworking as a hobby in my retirement. Nothing is for sale. I
thought
> >>> it may be interesting to use CAD to draw the boxes and what nots that
I
> >>> make. It help keeps the brain cells spinning and hopefully avoid that
> >>> dreaded AZ. My shop is in the garage and I have thought about putting
a
> >>> sign over the door saying "The Therapy Room". Now I may have to call
> >>> the computer "The Therapy Machine".
> >>> Anyhow, Thanks to one and all for your helpful responses and a Merry
> >>> Christmas and Happy New Year to one and all.
> >>
> >>I wasn't trying to imply anything. I'm just letting people know that
> >>according to AutoCAD, you don't own the software that you buy. You are
> >>simply buying a license to use it and they're being nice enought to
> >>give you a disk which they own in perpetuity. It's against their terms
> >>of service (and thus the law) to sell or give away the disk.
> >
>
>