On 7/20/2011 3:44 PM, Josepi wrote:
> Contacts do **NOT** corrode. Contacts may tarnish being made from
> copper, brass, silver and gold.
If not corrode, they will absolutely pit. And I assure you gold
contacts WILL NOT tarnish.
>
> Spraying it on electrical equipment to displace does not mean into the
> conductors. When you have water in your electrical conductors you have a
> bigger problem.
>
> ---------------
> "Zz Yzx" wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wd40
>
> Sheesh guys.
>
> WD40 was invented to displace water and prevent corrosion of
> electrical contacts. It has no to none lubricitive properties.
>
> -TES
I would be concerned that the chemicals so deposited could CREATE problems
with electrical circuitry, especially when there is any contact arcing. Is
the resistance of the dry material infinite? What might the voltage limits
be?
Maybe okay for 12 volts automotive systems, but not for 480 volt power
distribution?
I remember using Freon TF and Freon TMC for cleaning high voltage (20KV
circuit components before potting them. Choosing the right cleaner was a
real big deal.
Pete Stanaitis
----------------
"Theodore Edward Stosterone" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I spray it on electrical contacts and other electrical components to
> displace water and prevent corrosion. It works great for that! I
> learned the trick way back when I worked as a technician in an
> underground missile silo.
>
> TES
"Leon" <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 7/20/2011 8:35 AM, Pete S wrote:
>> I would be concerned that the chemicals so deposited could CREATE
>> problems with electrical circuitry, especially when there is any contact
>> arcing. Is the resistance of the dry material infinite? What might the
>> voltage limits be?
>> Maybe okay for 12 volts automotive systems, but not for 480 volt power
>> distribution?
>
> Actually WD-40 worked great in old automotive distributor caps to displace
> condensation, 20,000-40,000 volts and plenty of arcing.
>
> Been there, done that. Thats the only good use I have found for WD 40. ww
Ohhhh. the old slant six!
Had a gutless one of those, with a broken engine mount, once! It squealed
the tires for 30 feet with both feet pushing the brake pedal through the
floor.
I think it was the WD-40 the mechanic used on the engine mounts.
------------
wrote in message news:[email protected]...
On Wed, 20 Jul 2011 05:59:25 -0700, Theodore Edward Stosterone
But do NOT use the aerosol spray to displace moisture where arcing may
occur. I learnrd that the "fast" way when I used it to dry out my
distributor cap, and blew it right off when I tried to start the car.
(1963 Valiant slant six)
On Wed, 20 Jul 2011 21:09:46 -0400, [email protected] wrote:
>On Wed, 20 Jul 2011 05:59:25 -0700, Theodore Edward Stosterone
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>I spray it on electrical contacts and other electrical components to
>>displace water and prevent corrosion. It works great for that! I
>>learned the trick way back when I worked as a technician in an
>>underground missile silo.
>>
>>TES
>But do NOT use the aerosol spray to displace moisture where arcing may
>occur. I learnrd that the "fast" way when I used it to dry out my
>distributor cap, and blew it right off when I tried to start the car.
>(1963 Valiant slant six)
Had you allowed the solvent to dry a bit first...
--
Always bear in mind that your own resolution to
succeed is more important than any one thing.
-- Abraham Lincoln
Stuart <[email protected]> wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>,
> m II </Bengi/Eric/Josepi> wrote:
>
>> DO NOT USE WD-40 ON CONTACTS! keeps it use to hinges and things where
>> you don`t mind having to reapply every 2-3months for the rest of your
>> life.
>
>Absolutely right.
/snort
... both of you are well off the "intent of use"
of the product.
why does THAT not surprise me :-/
I'll play.
WD40 can be used to start a reluctant
oil fired engine - any refined version of (oil).
george
"Josepi" /Bengi/Eric/'mII' wrote:
>Contacts do **NOT** corrode.
>
You got no fskn hope, edjut.
You going to tell us aluminum does
not "corrode"..
/mutter
>Contacts may tarnish being made from copper,
>brass, silver and gold.
>
an'.. CORRODE when exposed to any number
chemical compounds. Ever heard of
electrolysis, dimbulb?
/mutters
Go have another run in the electrical focused
newsgroups, edjut.
Your well due another roundly arse kicking.
>Spraying it on electrical equipment to displace does not mean into the
>conductors. When you have water in your electrical conductors you have a
>bigger problem.
>
oH STFU you freaking edjut!
"water in your electrical conductors "
/mutters
Wota fskn GOOSE!
george
"Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Leon wrote:
>> On 7/20/2011 8:48 AM, m II wrote:
>>> WD-40 my be OK for a manually operate contact but not for an
>>> electrically operated contact. We had a guy try it on a bank of
>>> relays and the whole thing seized to halt! The stuff evaporates and
>>> leaves a
>>> sticky mess,not to mention where any arcing has occurred the result
>>> is pile of sticky carbon and a flash that burns the contacts beyond
>>> usable. DO NOT USE WD-40 ON CONTACTS! keeps it use to hinges and things
>>> where
>>> you don`t mind having to reapply every 2-3months for the rest of
>>> your life. A few mechanics have witnessed signs inside the hoods
>>> of`vehicles
>>> ``USE OF WD-40 ON THIS ENGINE WILL RESULT AND NOT PAYING THE BILL OR
>>> LITIGATION FOR DAMAGES``
>>
>> I suspect dam few to none. Having retired from the automotive
>> industry and having been the service manager for an automobile
>> dealership I can honestly say that I have never ever witnessed or
>> heard of a sign, sticker, label or what ever indicating not to use
>> WD-40 "under" the hood. We used cases of WD-40 in the shop, and
>> under the hood.
>> WD-40, Water Displacement- formula # 40 is a piss poor permanent
>> lubricant. It works great for helping to loosen rusted nuts, bolts,
>> and frozen assemblies but the lubricating qualities are very short
>> lived. AND of course to displace moisture. Lithium grease is a much
>> better choice for a long term lubrication of hinges.
>
>I suspect what he's saying Leon, is that he's put that sticker under his own
>hood, and mechanics that have worked on his car have seen it.
When you get to know him --->Josepi/Bengi/Eric/'mII'
you will reach that same understanding many before you have.
The edjut just invents"stuff".
Usually as close as possible to the bone so as induce muscle
twitch of the left mouse button for you "click n speak" types.
The "bait" comes from Wiki pages and "Popular Mechanics".
Gymmy Bob/Josepi is a life-long subscriber to that publication.
george
In article <[email protected]>,
-MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:
> Did you even read your own link? :-)
> "The long-term active ingredient is a non-volatile, viscous oil which
> remains on the surface, providing lubrication and protection from moisture."
You missed out "Atracting dust and dirt which sticks to it causing many
other problems"
--
Stuart Winsor
Midland RISC OS show - Sat July 9th 2011
http://mug.riscos.org/show11/MUGshow.html
In article <[email protected]>,
m II <[email protected]> wrote:
> DO NOT USE WD-40 ON CONTACTS! keeps it use to hinges and things where
> you don`t mind having to reapply every 2-3months for the rest of your
> life.
Absolutely right.
--
Stuart Winsor
Midland RISC OS show - Sat July 9th 2011
http://mug.riscos.org/show11/MUGshow.html
On Wed, 20 Jul 2011 06:18:28 -0700 (PDT), Sonny <[email protected]>
wrote:
>I've always understood you are to use ED-80 on electricals, rather
>than WD-40.
Izzat "electron displacer" v. "water displacer", son?
--
Always bear in mind that your own resolution to
succeed is more important than any one thing.
-- Abraham Lincoln
Leon wrote:
> On 7/20/2011 8:48 AM, m II wrote:
>> WD-40 my be OK for a manually operate contact but not for an
>> electrically operated contact. We had a guy try it on a bank of
>> relays and the whole thing seized to halt! The stuff evaporates and
>> leaves a
>> sticky mess,not to mention where any arcing has occurred the result
>> is pile of sticky carbon and a flash that burns the contacts beyond
>> usable. DO NOT USE WD-40 ON CONTACTS! keeps it use to hinges and things
>> where
>> you don`t mind having to reapply every 2-3months for the rest of
>> your life. A few mechanics have witnessed signs inside the hoods
>> of`vehicles
>> ``USE OF WD-40 ON THIS ENGINE WILL RESULT AND NOT PAYING THE BILL OR
>> LITIGATION FOR DAMAGES``
>
> I suspect dam few to none. Having retired from the automotive
> industry and having been the service manager for an automobile
> dealership I can honestly say that I have never ever witnessed or
> heard of a sign, sticker, label or what ever indicating not to use
> WD-40 "under" the hood. We used cases of WD-40 in the shop, and
> under the hood.
> WD-40, Water Displacement- formula # 40 is a piss poor permanent
> lubricant. It works great for helping to loosen rusted nuts, bolts,
> and frozen assemblies but the lubricating qualities are very short
> lived. AND of course to displace moisture. Lithium grease is a much
> better choice for a long term lubrication of hinges.
I suspect what he's saying Leon, is that he's put that sticker under his own
hood, and mechanics that have worked on his car have seen it.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
Contacts do **NOT** corrode. Contacts may tarnish being made from copper,
brass, silver and gold.
Spraying it on electrical equipment to displace does not mean into the
conductors. When you have water in your electrical conductors you have a
bigger problem.
---------------
"Zz Yzx" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wd40
Sheesh guys.
WD40 was invented to displace water and prevent corrosion of
electrical contacts. It has no to none lubricitive properties.
-TES
Zz Yzx wrote the following:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wd40
>
> Sheesh guys.
>
> WD40 was invented to displace water and prevent corrosion of
> electrical contacts. It has no to none lubricitive properties.
>
> -TES
>
Let's see what the WD-40 site says about that, shall we?
http://www.wd40.com/uses-tips/function/other-uses/
--
Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @
On 7/21/2011 11:36 AM, Josepi wrote:
> Ohhhh. the old slant six!
>
>
> Had a gutless one of those, with a broken engine mount, once! It
> squealed the tires for 30 feet with both feet pushing the brake pedal
> through the floor.
>
> I think it was the WD-40 the mechanic used on the engine mounts.
>
>
> ------------
> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
> On Wed, 20 Jul 2011 05:59:25 -0700, Theodore Edward Stosterone
> But do NOT use the aerosol spray to displace moisture where arcing may
> occur. I learnrd that the "fast" way when I used it to dry out my
> distributor cap, and blew it right off when I tried to start the car.
> (1963 Valiant slant six)
Sounds like you had a thief mechanic trying to produce the need for
work. Don't blame engine mount failure on WD-40, any oil will shorten
the life of a rubber motor mount.
WD-40 my be OK for a manually operate contact but not for an electrically
operated contact. We had a guy try it on a bank of relays and the whole
thing seized to halt! The stuff evaporates and leaves a sticky mess,not to
mention where any arcing has occurred the result is pile of sticky carbon
and a flash that burns the contacts beyond usable.
DO NOT USE WD-40 ON CONTACTS! keeps it use to hinges and things where you
don`t mind having to reapply every 2-3months for the rest of your life.
A few mechanics have witnessed signs inside the hoods of`vehicles ``USE OF
WD-40 ON THIS ENGINE WILL RESULT AND NOT PAYING THE BILL OR LITIGATION FOR
DAMAGES``
----------------------
"Pete S" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
I would be concerned that the chemicals so deposited could CREATE problems
with electrical circuitry, especially when there is any contact arcing. Is
the resistance of the dry material infinite? What might the voltage limits
be?
Maybe okay for 12 volts automotive systems, but not for 480 volt power
distribution?
I remember using Freon TF and Freon TMC for cleaning high voltage (20KV
circuit components before potting them. Choosing the right cleaner was a
real big deal.
Pete Stanaitis
----------------
"Theodore Edward Stosterone" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I spray it on electrical contacts and other electrical components to
> displace water and prevent corrosion. It works great for that! I
> learned the trick way back when I worked as a technician in an
> underground missile silo.
>
> TES
CALL THE SCIENTIFIC MINDS OF THE WORLD!
George can make carbon out of copper and silver contact material by passes
an electrical current through them!! Many manufactures will want to hear
about this atomic chemistry miracle!
Duh!
--------------
"Doug Miller" wrote in message news:[email protected]...
That, of course, is the entirely *normal* result of an electrical arc
*without* WD-40.
-------------------------
not to
mention where any arcing has occurred the result is pile of sticky carbon
and a flash that burns the contacts beyond usable.
>Did you even read your own link? :-)
>
>"The long-term active ingredient is a non-volatile, viscous oil which
>remains on the surface, providing lubrication and protection from moisture."
OF COURSE they want to sell that attribute. But ask an engineer if
they'd use WD40 as a lubricant.
Next, you'll be telling me that Pepto-Bismal has no bismuth, and that
Kaopectate has no kayolinite or pectin (it used to, but no more;
actually, now Kaopectate IS Pepto-Bismal).
Jes- sayin' .....
-Zz
On 7/20/2011 8:48 AM, m II wrote:
> WD-40 my be OK for a manually operate contact but not for an
> electrically operated contact. We had a guy try it on a bank of relays
> and the whole thing seized to halt! The stuff evaporates and leaves a
> sticky mess,not to mention where any arcing has occurred the result is
> pile of sticky carbon and a flash that burns the contacts beyond usable.
>
> DO NOT USE WD-40 ON CONTACTS! keeps it use to hinges and things where
> you don`t mind having to reapply every 2-3months for the rest of your life.
>
> A few mechanics have witnessed signs inside the hoods of`vehicles ``USE
> OF WD-40 ON THIS ENGINE WILL RESULT AND NOT PAYING THE BILL OR
> LITIGATION FOR DAMAGES``
I suspect dam few to none. Having retired from the automotive industry
and having been the service manager for an automobile dealership I can
honestly say that I have never ever witnessed or heard of a sign,
sticker, label or what ever indicating not to use WD-40 "under" the
hood. We used cases of WD-40 in the shop, and under the hood.
WD-40, Water Displacement- formula # 40 is a piss poor permanent
lubricant. It works great for helping to loosen rusted nuts, bolts, and
frozen assemblies but the lubricating qualities are very short lived.
AND of course to displace moisture. Lithium grease is a much better
choice for a long term lubrication of hinges.
Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>On 7/20/2011 8:53 PM, George Watson wrote:
/sawn
>>> I hear you but know differently.
>>>
>> .. an' there is why I am here, posting.
>>
/sawn
>
>George, take no offense with this request, could you publish a Ausy
>dictionary so we can understand some of your terminology> :~)
None taken at all Leon.
I do question the use of "we" though. Is not that either
"poor Engrish" (you do know what is "Engrish", right?)
or a presumption of the consumption by others??
Try this perspective on for size, Leon.
I am bringing the World to your desktop.
How's that?
You have heard of the Internet?
Ok.. I explain briefly.
It is that place outside of the USA Intranet.
The thing Al Gore invented and sold to you guys.
Y'all bought a lemon, by the way.
But at least it gave you guys access to the Internet<G>
[seriously]
Mate.. iff'n I had a buck for each "lingo lame" I have and
do attract I could mount a takeover bid on Microsoft, no
worries.
Such trivia does not faze me one iota.
An the fact that I explain this to *you* says you are on
my "favorites list".
Others are still wondering where their post went!
/lmao
I aint changing a thing, Leon
I am what I am, just as many are here to me
I deal with the "strange ones" as I will.
I follow the rules of Usenet, I subscribe to the Usenet ethos
and I promote "free speech", where I do post.
More than that is up to the reader, not I.
Some help?
http://www.dogpile.com
covers more Search Engines than Google
and does not "hand feed" only American "stuff".
A quick scan of this site will tell you I am being very clear
in *my* use of English.. for an Aussie poster:->
http://www.sunburntcountry.au.com/sayings/fulllist.html
All that said.. I have little to none trouble in figuring
what you guys and the Kanucks are saying yet the
reverse is always a problem for a great many
from the Americas.. and not only with reading
of Aussie "stuff", I would add.
cheers
george
I guess I used the wrong word. "Corrosion" is a general term for "rotting" I
was thinking of the term "rust". Not from the Griswolds... LOL.
Thanx for being so polite, OCD. It keeps the posts more honest and makes us
educate ourselves in correct terminology.
-------------------
wrote in message news:[email protected]...
Many contacts DO corrode, depending on the environment.
Brass sure can corrode - so can copper.
However,arcing, and the associated transfer of metal, is a more
serious problem - even with contacts of tungsten or platinum. (look at
a set of ignition points that have been in service for an extended
period of time in a standard "kettering" type system)
--------
On Wed, 20 Jul 2011 16:44:31 -0400, "Josepi" <[email protected]>
wrote:
Contacts do **NOT** corrode. Contacts may tarnish being made from copper,
brass, silver and gold.
Spraying it on electrical equipment to displace does not mean into the
conductors. When you have water in your electrical conductors you have a
bigger problem.
On Wed, 20 Jul 2011 05:59:25 -0700, Theodore Edward Stosterone
<[email protected]> wrote:
>I spray it on electrical contacts and other electrical components to
>displace water and prevent corrosion. It works great for that! I
>learned the trick way back when I worked as a technician in an
>underground missile silo.
>
>TES
But do NOT use the aerosol spray to displace moisture where arcing may
occur. I learnrd that the "fast" way when I used it to dry out my
distributor cap, and blew it right off when I tried to start the car.
(1963 Valiant slant six)
On 7/20/2011 5:59 AM, Theodore Edward Stosterone wrote:
> I spray it on electrical contacts and other electrical components to
> displace water and prevent corrosion. It works great for that! I
> learned the trick way back when I worked as a technician in an
> underground missile silo.
>
that's what it was made for.
In article <[email protected]>, "m II" <[email protected]> wrote:
>WD-40 my be OK for a manually operate contact but not for an electrically
>operated contact. We had a guy try it on a bank of relays and the whole
>thing seized to halt!
Sure you did. Urban legend. Something you heard from a friend of a friend.
>The stuff evaporates and leaves a sticky mess,
Garbage. It does nothing of the kind.
>not to
>mention where any arcing has occurred the result is pile of sticky carbon
>and a flash that burns the contacts beyond usable.
That, of course, is the entirely *normal* result of an electrical arc
*without* WD-40.
>
>A few mechanics have witnessed signs inside the hoods of`vehicles ``USE OF
>WD-40 ON THIS ENGINE WILL RESULT AND NOT PAYING THE BILL OR LITIGATION FOR
>DAMAGES``
If by "a few" you mean "zero" then this is probably true.
On 7/20/11 9:27 AM, Zz Yzx wrote:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wd40
>
> Sheesh guys.
>
> WD40 was invented to displace water and prevent corrosion of
> electrical contacts. It has no to none lubricitive properties.
>
> -TES
Did you even read your own link? :-)
"The long-term active ingredient is a non-volatile, viscous oil which
remains on the surface, providing lubrication and protection from moisture."
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
On Wed, 20 Jul 2011 16:44:31 -0400, "Josepi" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Contacts do **NOT** corrode. Contacts may tarnish being made from copper,
>brass, silver and gold.
>
>Spraying it on electrical equipment to displace does not mean into the
>conductors. When you have water in your electrical conductors you have a
>bigger problem.
>
>---------------
>"Zz Yzx" wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wd40
>
>Sheesh guys.
>
>WD40 was invented to displace water and prevent corrosion of
>electrical contacts. It has no to none lubricitive properties.
>
>-TES
Many contacts DO corrode, depending on the environment.
Brass sure can corrode - so can copper.
However,arcing, and the associated transfer of metal, is a more
serious problem - even with contacts of tungsten or platinum. (look at
a set of ignition points that have been in service for an extended
period of time in a standard "kettering" type system)
On Wed, 20 Jul 2011 13:52:12 -0400, willshak <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Zz Yzx wrote the following:
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wd40
>>
>> Sheesh guys.
>>
>> WD40 was invented to displace water and prevent corrosion of
>> electrical contacts. It has no to none lubricitive properties.
>>
>> -TES
>>
>Let's see what the WD-40 site says about that, shall we?
>http://www.wd40.com/uses-tips/function/other-uses/
or their other page at
http://www.wd40.com/about-us/history/
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
On 7/20/2011 8:35 AM, Pete S wrote:
> I would be concerned that the chemicals so deposited could CREATE
> problems with electrical circuitry, especially when there is any contact
> arcing. Is the resistance of the dry material infinite? What might the
> voltage limits be?
> Maybe okay for 12 volts automotive systems, but not for 480 volt power
> distribution?
Actually WD-40 worked great in old automotive distributor caps to
displace condensation, 20,000-40,000 volts and plenty of arcing.
On Wed, 20 Jul 2011 10:11:59 -0600, "WW" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
>"Leon" <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On 7/20/2011 8:35 AM, Pete S wrote:
>>> I would be concerned that the chemicals so deposited could CREATE
>>> problems with electrical circuitry, especially when there is any contact
>>> arcing. Is the resistance of the dry material infinite? What might the
>>> voltage limits be?
>>> Maybe okay for 12 volts automotive systems, but not for 480 volt power
>>> distribution?
>>
>> Actually WD-40 worked great in old automotive distributor caps to displace
>> condensation, 20,000-40,000 volts and plenty of arcing.
>>
>
>
>
>
>> Been there, done that. Thats the only good use I have found for WD 40. ww
>
>
It does not stay on the contacts very long - and even there it CAN
cause carbon build-up on the electrodes - which is blasted off by the
next couple of "lightning strikes" - and is not a problem since the
"electrodes" are not "contacts" - i.e. - they NEVER touch.
On Wed, 20 Jul 2011 14:09:41 GMT, [email protected] (Doug
Miller) wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>, "m II" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>WD-40 my be OK for a manually operate contact but not for an electrically
>>operated contact. We had a guy try it on a bank of relays and the whole
>>thing seized to halt!
>
>Sure you did. Urban legend. Something you heard from a friend of a friend.
>
>>The stuff evaporates and leaves a sticky mess,
>
>Garbage. It does nothing of the kind.
>
>>not to
>>mention where any arcing has occurred the result is pile of sticky carbon
>>and a flash that burns the contacts beyond usable.
>
>That, of course, is the entirely *normal* result of an electrical arc
>*without* WD-40.
>>
>>A few mechanics have witnessed signs inside the hoods of`vehicles ``USE OF
>>WD-40 ON THIS ENGINE WILL RESULT AND NOT PAYING THE BILL OR LITIGATION FOR
>>DAMAGES``
>
>If by "a few" you mean "zero" then this is probably true.
WD 40, when used as a lubricant on something originally lubricated
with grease, CAN remove the oil from the grease, leaving behind the
"soap" (sodium stearate in some cases, lithium in others, plus a host
of others)- which will cause mechanisms to stick.
As for electrical contacts - on sliding contacts like many automotive
switches, and at low voltage and current, not likely to cause much
problem - but any arcing in a switch with "oily" contacts WILL cause
carbon build-up - which CAN cause high resistance, heating, and
burning of contacts. High voltage and high current contacts must be
CLEAN or lubricated/protected by an inert grease (dialectric grease)
that will not burn and protects against corrosion.
Spray WD-40 (aerosol) has (or at least had) a flammable propellant,
which, if used on an arcing contact - or in proximity to an arcing
contact, CAN ignite - with rather spectacular result if, say, inside a
distributor cap.
There are NO manufacturers that plackard their under-hood areas with
prohibition against using WD40 under the hood.
It is EXCELLENT for drying out damp ignition wires - even though there
are better products, which help seal the wires against moisture for a
longer time - but NEVER use "ignition sealer" - the plasticy coating
if compromised at all, just traps moisture in the wire, making it
worse - and impossible to dry out with WD-40 or anything else.