"Too_Many_Tools" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:6a1339e5-bd64-49e4-a0fc-a8cb95cea5cf@t21g2000yqi.googlegroups.com...
"On Jun 27, 9:27 pm, "John Grossbohlin"
><[email protected]> wrote:
>> "Too_Many_Tools" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
>
>I assume those Craigslist locations are local heavy industrial areas.
>
>Which leaves those who live in the sticks out in the cold.
>
>It would explain the absence of any significant number of tools on
>Ebay.
CL has local lists all over the world now... For example, if you go to any
one of the local sites there is a list of countries and cities on the right
side of the page: Look at http://albany.craigslist.org/ for an example.
I have a self imposed limit of how far I'll travel to pick up big items and
generally don't bother with small or cheap stuff--my preference and clearly
not anyone else's! As such I watch lists that are within "my zone" and don't
bother with the rest. For someone like you, who apparently lives in the
sticks ;~), Googling CL as suggested by another RECer would be an option. I
noticed that recently CL is pulling in items from other lists near the ones
I'm searching if only a few items appear on the one I'm searching.
I think the bottom line is you have to figure out what works for you. In my
case eBay hasn't met my needs. I do occassionally enjoy looking at some of
the huge old industrial machines that show up on eBay... ones where after
viewing it for a while you notice an ant-sized guy standing somewhere in the
photo. ;~)
John
On Jun 28, 3:00=A0am, Too_Many_Tools <[email protected]> wrote:
> I recently spent some time looking over Ebay for some
> tools...wow..what has happened to Ebay?
>
> Could someone discuss what happened to turn the place to go to the
> wasteland it is today?
>
> Thanks
>
> TMT
I think a lot of people found that selling on Ebay is not the road to
riches that they thought it would be.
Craigslist has taken a lot of the business from Ebay, especially in
the " local pick up only " catagory It is hard to tell how much gets
sold via Craiglist because once someone buys something the listing
gets removed. Or at least it is suppose to be removed. So if you are
looking for bargains, you need to check craigslist often.
If you search on Craigslist for something like say a lathe, and there
are not many or any for sale is the Craigslist you are searching on,
Craigslist will show lathes in nearby Craigslist.
Ebay is best for obscure or rare things that are easily shipped. So
if you are looking for something like a reamer for taper pins, Ebay is
the place to look.
Ebay is also not bad for relatively rare things that are heavy.
Instead of searching by ending soonest, or by Ebay's best match,
search on "least distance". I often search in the Industrial area of
Ebay without anything in the search for box. So I see everything in
the Business and Industrial category starting with the things that are
closest starting with the used dental equipment that my neighbor
sells.
Dan
On Jun 30, 8:45=A0pm, Brian Henderson
<[email protected]> wrote:
> David Nebenzahl wrote:
> > On 6/29/2009 11:00 AM notbob spake thus:
>
> >> Despite a perfect 100% rating as a seller, I've had enough. =A0
>
> > Same here. I have (or had, before eBay queered the feedback rules) a
> > 100% rating as both seller and buyer. But the deck is clearly stacked
> > against sellers (at least small, non-corporate, non-"store" sellers).
>
> > Fuck it.
>
> Exactly. =A0I used to be a regular seller on eBay and their rules made it
> far too difficult to bother with, buyers got to screw the sellers, the
> sellers had virtually no help if anyone ever complained. =A0I had a 100%
> positive rating, but I didn't want to deal with the nonsense anymore.
>
> Of course, once I stopped selling on eBay, I stopped buying there too.
> They lost a crapload of money by pissing dedicated sellers off over the
> last couple of years.
Try this on for size...
If I would substitute the word "buy" for "sell" in your comments, it
would reflect what Ebay was before the recent changes.
And sellers took advantage of that situation.
Buyers left...in droves...to Amazon.
Ebay responded by changing the rules to favor buyers.
Sellers then left...in droves....to Amazon.
The ones that did not are still looking for another
market....Craigslist seems to be the favored spot for the moment.
The 'junk" that we all favor does not favor the Amazon model....so it
has been left out in the cold...and sellers/buyers who deal in it.
It will be interesting to see where this goes since we now know that
there is a market for it.
TMT
On Jun 29, 11:38=A0am, notbob <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 2009-06-28, John Grossbohlin <[email protected]> wr=
ote:
>
> > RE eBay, their attempts at expansion put the auctions on the back seat.
>
> Yep. =A0I am/was a small seller on ebay, only a couple dozen items, but e=
bay
> has made it so difficult for the small seller, it's no longer worth the
> hassle. I just sold an item for a couple hundred bucks and discovered pay=
pal
> was holding my funds. =A0Turns out a new policy requires I ship the item
> before I can access the funds. =A0Screw that! =A0Nobody gets dammit befor=
e I
> have money in hand. =A0This is about the third time abay made it safer fo=
r the
> buyer while increasing my risk as a seller. =A0If ebay wants to play that
> game, they can play without me.
>
> nb
From what you are describing, it sounds like the sellers abused the
system and drove the buyers away.
TMT
On Jun 28, 5:42=A0am, "Steve Lusardi" <[email protected]> wrote:
> John,
> I'm sure craigslist has attributes, but for ease of use and world-wide
> coverage, nothing beats eBay. I hate the limitation of locality in the
> craigslist construct.
> Steve
>
> "John Grossbohlin" <[email protected]> wrote in messag=
e
>
> news:[email protected]...
>
>
>
> > "Too_Many_Tools" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >news:[email protected]...
> >>I recently spent some time looking over Ebay for some
> >> tools...wow..what has happened to Ebay?
>
> >> Could someone discuss what happened to turn the place to go to the
> >> wasteland it is today?
>
> > RE eBay, their attempts at expansion put the auctions on the back seat.
> > There is also the problems with shipping tools, particularly big
> > stationary tools. Craig's List seems to be getting a big share of the
> > tools around this part of the country.
>
> > The three Craig's Lists I frequent are full of tools.... and some amazi=
ng
> > deals. On the 24th a "slightly used Unisaw with 52" Beismyer (sic) fenc=
e
> > system, mobile base, and out feed table" showed up for a couple hours..=
.
> > $300! =A0About a month and a half ago I picked up a Delta 14" bandsaw w=
ith
> > mobile base and fence in near new condition for $450 for my club
> > (NWA)--half of what Amazon gets for the same saw. A couple weeks ago I
> > picked up 36" Crescent bandsaw for myself. There's another 36" on there
> > now (older and not in as good shape as mine) as well as big shapers,
> > molding machines, lathes, table saws, mortisers, etc. Sad to say, the
> > economy is bad enough that you could equip a shop with very nice
> > stationary tools for a couple grand if you watch CL throughout the day =
and
> > can move fast with cash.
>
> > John
Add to that the response from scammers. I've got a car up on the
Roanoke, VA CL; I've so far had about a dozen nitwits who want to help
me get through the recession because I'm selling an old car I don't
need. I've had only one bite on the car, a tire kicker, what a friend
used to call a "beeback," as in, "I gotta talk to my wife about the
money. I'll be back tomorrow." That's the last you see or hear of the
guy.
As far as I can tell, for heavier stuff, the local papers are still
king. When I'm flipping through camera lenses and such, I use eBay.
Same with old tools, though it does look as if I'll hold on to my two
bit extra braces forever.
As for NMorrison, I'm really curious as to what makes eBay dangerous
for newcomers, say more so than buying at Amazon or some similar
place? I haven't been a newcomer in a long time, so I may be missing
something.
Any place you buy today sets you up for a rip-off, assuming you're not
local and paying cash. Electronic purchasing involves giving sensitive
info to people you don't know, no matter who you're buying from. We're
happy to by from Lee Valley, Rockler's, similar places, because over
the years they've developed excellent reputations, and we can be
fairly certain they're not going to deal sloppily with our IDs. The
same goes for B&H Photo, Adorama Photos, and a few others, but, in
general, we know next to nothing about people from whom we buy on-
line, through the mail or over the phone. All of it puts us at risk.
Today, it's essential to pay attention to the seller's reputation,
even more so than in the past.
So why is eBay any more dangerous, and why, specifically, for
newcomers?
"Too_Many_Tools" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> Craigslist transactions are overwhelmingly face to face transactions.
Agreed. The several Craigslist purchases and sales I've made have all been
face to face transactions with the buyer visiting the seller to pick up the
item. There's a decided incentive there to not rip someone off when they
know where you live.
On 2009-06-29, dpb <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> There's no way an exchange from afar can be completely equal--either one
> or the other or both have to make a step or there's an impasse.
That's what the buyer/seller rating system was all about. Real feedback
from real sellers and buyers. There's always a risk, but at least both
sides had a say and buyers/sellers could make their own decision about who
to trust. Ebay killed that some time ago when they decided a buyer could
leave negative feedback, but not the seller. There goes the level playing
field. Fact is, as a seller, I got jerked around by buyers 3 out of my first
5 auctions, yet the first time the rules are changed, it's against me, the
seller. It's been going against the small seller ever since. Screw it.
Despite a perfect 100% rating as a seller, I've had enough.
nb
On Jun 28, 4:18=A0am, Charlie Self <[email protected]> wrote:
> So why is eBay any more dangerous, and why, specifically, for
> newcomers?
Example: If you see someone selling say, a (useless) list of wholesale
suppliers of some highly desirable item and it's clear that newbies
think they are getting the item, not an email list, you can't warn
them.
It used to be that if you were ripped off by a seller you could
contact other buyers and get together to get something done. Now
eBay's attitude is, tough luck.
They even blocked Toolhaus for a while.
On Jul 1, 1:48=A0am, notbob <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 2009-07-01, Too_Many_Tools <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Craigslist transactions are overwhelmingly face to face transactions.
>
> More and more are not. =A0The last time I sold an item on craigslist, I w=
as
> surprised to get responses from all over the US, all way outside my Denve=
r
> post. =A0AZ, CA, FL, NH, etc. =A0The whole thing was done via email, no p=
roblems
> whatsoever.
>
> > When you do faceless transactions, having a 3rd party is needed.
>
> No, it's not. =A0
>
> > The one time I did not have the 3rd party in place, I got ripped off
> > by a seller....never ever again.
>
> I once got ripped off, face to face, by a so-called friend. =A0Your
> sweeping generalizations are invalid.
>
> > That one bad transaction has made me very cautious......
>
> That's the key. =A0Trust your feelings.
>
> nb
I think you are wrong...but you are entitled to your opinion. ;<)
Where do you think the ripoff artists are selling now?
Craigslist.
Just a matter of time before Paypal is in place in Craigslist.
History repeats itself.
TMT
On Jun 28, 9:41=A0am, notbob <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 2009-06-28, Steve Lusardi <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > coverage, nothing beats eBay. I hate the limitation of locality in the
> > craigslist construct.
>
> You obviously haven't had to ship something overseas, or even to Canada,
> where insurance and/or confirmation of delivery --protection for the
> seller-- cost twice as much or fail to exist altogether.
>
> nb
If the seller in the US is instructed clearly how to ship, insurance
and tracking are all available.
John Grossbohlin wrote:
>
> It clearly depends on what you are looking for or are trying to sell. I
> actually see the locality thing as a benefit... but that's because the stuff
> I buy is big and often heavy, not sendable by regular UPS or USPS. As such I
> don't care a hoot about a bandsaw on the left coast but one in the upper
> part of someone's empire state is of interest. ;~)
>
> Of the things I've listed for sale, or free just to get rid of it, sometimes
> the response is almost over whelming on CL. I also have no interest in
> packaging or shipping anything... some an get it!
>
> CL is a better alternative to a yard sale in my view for several reasons. I
> can get rid of one or two items at a time. I don't have to sit around all
> day waiting for people and don't have to spend a day or more setting up and
> taking down.
>
> The local Freecycle list generates about 30-40 items per day. Some of the
> stuff people are giving away is amazing but mostly household items,
> appliances and clothing. Not many tools outside of lawn mowers, lawn
> tractors and the occasional snow blower.
I see a few tools. lawn moowers and tillers on the local freecycle
group.
--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense!
On 6/28/2009 4:17 AM George spake thus:
> I too hate the limitations of the Craiglist search engine so I get
> around it by using Google to search craigslist, enter Craigslist into
> the google search box and follow with the name or descriptive term for
> what you are searching for and you will be searching craigslist
> nationwide. Not perfect but it helps a lot.
If you want to be a really smart Google/Craigslist user, target the
specific Craigslist site with Google's "site:" parameter:
site:XXX.craigslist.org [other search terms here]
where "XXX" is the local part of the domain name (like "sfbay" for the
San Francisco Bay area).
That way you won't be searching Craigslist sites out of your area.
--
Found--the gene that causes belief in genetic determinism
On 6/29/2009 11:00 AM notbob spake thus:
> Despite a perfect 100% rating as a seller, I've had enough.
Same here. I have (or had, before eBay queered the feedback rules) a
100% rating as both seller and buyer. But the deck is clearly stacked
against sellers (at least small, non-corporate, non-"store" sellers).
Fuck it.
--
Found--the gene that causes belief in genetic determinism
On 6/30/2009 6:33 AM notbob spake thus:
> On 2009-06-30, Richard J Kinch <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> So you're better than every merchant back to the Phoenecians?
>
> Screw a buncha Phoenicians.
>
> I don't know where you live, but in my world, if I order something from a
> catalog or over the internet, it doesn't get shipped till they have my
> money. Ain't no 3rd party holding the money in bogus floats.
Yes, but that's because you're dealing with a single vendor in this
case. Duh.
In the case of eBay, they're acting as an intermediary for hundreds of
thousands of (mostly small) vendors who have no way of authenticating or
validating transactions like "something from a catalog or over the
internet", so some kind of 3rd party intervention is needed.
--
Found--the gene that causes belief in genetic determinism
Jon Danniken wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
>> If you search on Craigslist for something like say a lathe, and there
>> are not many or any for sale is the Craigslist you are searching on,
>> Craigslist will show lathes in nearby Craigslist.
>
> http://www.searchtempest.com/
>
> Jon
>
>
or
http://crazedlist.org/index.cgi
> Any place you buy today sets you up for a rip-off, assuming you're not
> local and paying cash. Electronic purchasing involves giving sensitive
> info to people you don't know, no matter who you're buying from.
We're
> happy to by from Lee Valley, Rockler's, similar places, because over
> the years they've developed excellent reputations, and we can be
> fairly certain they're not going to deal sloppily with our IDs. The
> same goes for B&H Photo, Adorama Photos, and a few others, but, in
> general, we know next to nothing about people from whom we buy on-
> line, through the mail or over the phone. All of it puts us at risk.
>
> Today, it's essential to pay attention to the seller's reputation,
> even more so than in the past.
One of the most effective tools to check a seller's reputation, is by
visiting reselleratings.com.
If a seller is not listed, if the rating is less than 9/10, or
customer feedback indicates possible problems, better to avoid that
merchant and head for somewhere more reliable.
Sincerely
Helen Oster
Adorama Camera Customer Service Ambassador
[email protected]
www.adorama.com
On Jun 27, 9:27=A0pm, "John Grossbohlin"
<[email protected]> wrote:
> "Too_Many_Tools" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...
>
> >I recently spent some time looking over Ebay for some
> > tools...wow..what has happened to Ebay?
>
> > Could someone discuss what happened to turn the place to go to the
> > wasteland it is today?
>
> RE eBay, their attempts at expansion put the auctions on the back seat.
> There is also the problems with shipping tools, particularly big stationa=
ry
> tools. Craig's List seems to be getting a big share of the tools around t=
his
> part of the country.
>
> The three Craig's Lists I frequent are full of tools.... and some amazing
> deals. On the 24th a "slightly used Unisaw with 52" Beismyer (sic) fence
> system, mobile base, and out feed table" showed up for a couple hours...
> $300! =A0About a month and a half ago I picked up a Delta 14" bandsaw wit=
h
> mobile base and fence in near new condition for $450 for my club (NWA)--h=
alf
> of what Amazon gets for the same saw. A couple weeks ago I picked up 36"
> Crescent bandsaw for myself. There's another 36" on there now (older and =
not
> in as good shape as mine) as well as big shapers, molding machines, lathe=
s,
> table saws, mortisers, etc. Sad to say, the economy is bad enough that yo=
u
> could equip a shop with very nice stationary tools for a couple grand if =
you
> watch CL throughout the day and can move fast with cash.
>
> John
Impressive buys!
I assume those Craigslist locations are local heavy industrial areas.
Which leaves those who live in the sticks out in the cold.
It would explain the absence of any significant number of tools on
Ebay.
TMT
[email protected] wrote:
>
> If you search on Craigslist for something like say a lathe, and there
> are not many or any for sale is the Craigslist you are searching on,
> Craigslist will show lathes in nearby Craigslist.
http://www.searchtempest.com/
Jon
On Tue, 30 Jun 2009 02:50:17 -0500, Richard J Kinch <[email protected]> wrote:
>notbob writes:
>
>> Turns out a new policy requires I ship the item
>> before I can access the funds. Screw that! Nobody gets dammit before I
>> have money in hand.
>
>So you're better than every merchant back to the Phoenecians?
>
>The Paypal funds-holding is exactly the way business has been done for
>centuries. The merchant got paid when he presented the bank with the ship
This is what we call "LC" (Letter of Credit) for local and especially
International business transaction between buyers and sellers. Even with a "LC"
you can be cheated. There are many types of LC's, I prefer "Confirmed LC from an
acceptable bank", and that too you may be cheated. Did you know some people even
got paid monthly or contract work using "LC" in some countries? There are really
no safe way to protect yourself.
>captain's bill of lading, not before. It was the brief conceit, now
>corrected, of eBay and Paypal that transacting business over the Internet
>would somehow be different. All they've done is return to sound business
>practices after a brief euphoric fantasy.
On Jun 27, 7:00=A0pm, Too_Many_Tools <[email protected]> wrote:
> I recently spent some time looking over Ebay for some
> tools...wow..what has happened to Ebay?
>
> Could someone discuss what happened to turn the place to go to the
> wasteland it is today?
Very smart people who earn lots of money redesigned it. It's now the
perfect place for crooks to operate and dangerous as all get out for
new users.
On Thu, 02 Jul 2009 00:06:33 GMT, "LD" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Then there are the Craigslist buyers casing the place for a later burglary
And those who want you to ship little propane tanks to England. I
suppose there's some percentage of scammers/con-artists in every
venue.
Tom Veatch
Wichita, KS
USA
I too hate the limitations of the Craiglist search engine so I get
around it by using Google to search craigslist, enter Craigslist into
the google search box and follow with the name or descriptive term for
what you are searching for and you will be searching craigslist
nationwide. Not perfect but it helps a lot.
YMMV
Steve Lusardi wrote:
> John,
> I'm sure craigslist has attributes, but for ease of use and world-wide
> coverage, nothing beats eBay. I hate the limitation of locality in the
> craigslist construct.
> Steve
>
> "John Grossbohlin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> "Too_Many_Tools" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> I recently spent some time looking over Ebay for some
>>> tools...wow..what has happened to Ebay?
>>>
>>> Could someone discuss what happened to turn the place to go to the
>>> wasteland it is today?
>>>
>>
>> RE eBay, their attempts at expansion put the auctions on the back seat.
>> There is also the problems with shipping tools, particularly big
>> stationary tools. Craig's List seems to be getting a big share of the
>> tools around this part of the country.
>>
>> The three Craig's Lists I frequent are full of tools.... and some amazing
>> deals. On the 24th a "slightly used Unisaw with 52" Beismyer (sic) fence
>> system, mobile base, and out feed table" showed up for a couple hours...
>> $300! About a month and a half ago I picked up a Delta 14" bandsaw with
>> mobile base and fence in near new condition for $450 for my club
>> (NWA)--half of what Amazon gets for the same saw. A couple weeks ago I
>> picked up 36" Crescent bandsaw for myself. There's another 36" on there
>> now (older and not in as good shape as mine) as well as big shapers,
>> molding machines, lathes, table saws, mortisers, etc. Sad to say, the
>> economy is bad enough that you could equip a shop with very nice
>> stationary tools for a couple grand if you watch CL throughout the day and
>> can move fast with cash.
>>
>> John
>>
>>
>
>
"Charlie Self" wrote
>As for NMorrison, I'm really curious as to what makes eBay dangerous
>for newcomers, say more so than buying at Amazon or some similar
>place? I haven't been a newcomer in a long time, so I may be missing
>something.
>Any place you buy today sets you up for a rip-off, assuming you're not
>local and paying cash.
>Today, it's essential to pay attention to the seller's reputation,
>even more so than in the past.
I feel obligated to defend Amazon. <G>
If you're referring to purchases made from a 3rd party but through Amazon, I
suppose there might be a bit more risk than purchases made directly from
Amazon but I have spent thousands of dollars on purchases from Amazon and
have never had a problem.
I've also made numerous 3rd party purchases without any problems.
Amazon is usually my first choice for shopping.
I can't speak to the reputation of eBay since I've never purchased through
them.
I agree completely with your last statement.
Max
"N Morrison" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:7ee277e2-52b3-413a-9173-9df8a8ff5647@r33g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
On Jun 27, 7:00 pm, Too_Many_Tools <[email protected]> wrote:
> I recently spent some time looking over Ebay for some
> tools...wow..what has happened to Ebay?
>
> Could someone discuss what happened to turn the place to go to the
> wasteland it is today?
Very smart people who earn lots of money redesigned it. It's now the
perfect place for crooks to operate and dangerous as all get out for
new users.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Please explain.
As a seller, I no longer "like" eBay due to unfair policies that it
promotes in a misguided desperation for "growth". They have all been
mentioned here. As a buyer, I find a lot less to buy, for the same
reason.
However, Craigslist, which I like a lot, has perhaps 1/100th of
potential buyers compared to ebay. It does not offer many attractive
bargains either. Too many losers advertising overpriced crap for
months. Here we have a guy who hawks his overpriced junk (he wants new
prices for very used things), and says "moving, must sell". He's been
selling those things for over a year!
i
On 2009-06-30, Richard J Kinch <[email protected]> wrote:
> So you're better than every merchant back to the Phoenecians?
Screw a buncha Phoenicians.
I don't know where you live, but in my world, if I order something from a
catalog or over the internet, it doesn't get shipped till they have my
money. Ain't no 3rd party holding the money in bogus floats.
nb
On 2009-06-28, John Grossbohlin <[email protected]> wrote:
> RE eBay, their attempts at expansion put the auctions on the back seat.
Yep. I am/was a small seller on ebay, only a couple dozen items, but ebay
has made it so difficult for the small seller, it's no longer worth the
hassle. I just sold an item for a couple hundred bucks and discovered paypal
was holding my funds. Turns out a new policy requires I ship the item
before I can access the funds. Screw that! Nobody gets dammit before I
have money in hand. This is about the third time abay made it safer for the
buyer while increasing my risk as a seller. If ebay wants to play that
game, they can play without me.
nb
On 2009-06-28, Steve Lusardi <[email protected]> wrote:
> coverage, nothing beats eBay. I hate the limitation of locality in the
> craigslist construct.
You obviously haven't had to ship something overseas, or even to Canada,
where insurance and/or confirmation of delivery --protection for the
seller-- cost twice as much or fail to exist altogether.
nb
Charlie Self writes:
> Electronic purchasing involves giving sensitive
> info to people you don't know, no matter who you're buying from.
People did buy and sell without face-to-face cash transactions in the past,
you know. Trusted intermediaries acted as transaction agents, known as
"banks".
I've sold $100,000s over the Web and no one gives me any "sensitive info",
except the occasional guy who insists on ordering with a credit card over
the phone.
Charlie Self writes:
> I have no idea how you conduct transactions without some way of
> transferring money.
Of course I get money from my customers, but I never have my customers'
credit card numbers. They order my stuff on a Web page that is handled by
the card processor. Only that trusted intermediary has the card info.
Division of labor, comparative advantage, all very efficient. This
transaction mediation is the honest value that banks create and I am glad
to pay them 3 percent for it.
Banks get conceited and think, hey we've got all this idle money, let's
invest it in some subprime mortgages. They should trade on what they have
that no one else has, namely mediating trust, not on investments where they
compete with everyone and anyone with money.
notbob writes:
> Turns out a new policy requires I ship the item
> before I can access the funds. Screw that! Nobody gets dammit before I
> have money in hand.
So you're better than every merchant back to the Phoenecians?
The Paypal funds-holding is exactly the way business has been done for
centuries. The merchant got paid when he presented the bank with the ship
captain's bill of lading, not before. It was the brief conceit, now
corrected, of eBay and Paypal that transacting business over the Internet
would somehow be different. All they've done is return to sound business
practices after a brief euphoric fantasy.
Ignoramus12074 <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> As a seller, I no longer "like" eBay due to unfair policies that it
> promotes in a misguided desperation for "growth". They have all been
> mentioned here. As a buyer, I find a lot less to buy, for the same
> reason.
>
> However, Craigslist, which I like a lot, has perhaps 1/100th of
> potential buyers compared to ebay. It does not offer many attractive
> bargains either. Too many losers advertising overpriced crap for
> months. Here we have a guy who hawks his overpriced junk (he wants new
> prices for very used things), and says "moving, must sell". He's been
> selling those things for over a year!
>
> i
>
You wouldn't happen to be refering to the 33rd St. spammer from San Diego
would you? If not it seems that we have one here too.
On 2009-06-30, David Nebenzahl <[email protected]> wrote:
> In the case of eBay, they're acting as an intermediary for hundreds of
> thousands of (mostly small) vendors who have no way of authenticating or
> validating transactions like "something from a catalog or over the
> internet", so some kind of 3rd party intervention is needed.
They are inserting themselves like banks. They have changed the rules so
they have control of your money for a period of time, whether you like it or
not. As for "3rd party intervention is needed", craigslist pretty much
proves that premise to be a load of crap.
nb
On Jun 27, 7:00=A0pm, Too_Many_Tools <[email protected]> wrote:
> I recently spent some time looking over Ebay for some
> tools...wow..what has happened to Ebay?
>
> Could someone discuss what happened to turn the place to go to the
> wasteland it is today?
>
> Thanks
>
> TMT
Are you planning to provide any specifics in regards to what you think
has happened to E-bay?
Jon Banquer
San Diego, CA
On 2009-07-01, Too_Many_Tools <[email protected]> wrote:
> Craigslist transactions are overwhelmingly face to face transactions.
More and more are not. The last time I sold an item on craigslist, I was
surprised to get responses from all over the US, all way outside my Denver
post. AZ, CA, FL, NH, etc. The whole thing was done via email, no problems
whatsoever.
> When you do faceless transactions, having a 3rd party is needed.
No, it's not.
> The one time I did not have the 3rd party in place, I got ripped off
> by a seller....never ever again.
I once got ripped off, face to face, by a so-called friend. Your
sweeping generalizations are invalid.
> That one bad transaction has made me very cautious......
That's the key. Trust your feelings.
nb
On Jun 30, 11:21=A0pm, notbob <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 2009-06-30, David Nebenzahl <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > In the case of eBay, they're acting as an intermediary for hundreds of
> > thousands of (mostly small) vendors who have no way of authenticating o=
r
> > validating transactions like "something from a catalog or over the
> > internet", so some kind of 3rd party intervention is needed.
>
> They are inserting themselves like banks. =A0They have changed the rules =
so
> they have control of your money for a period of time, whether you like it=
or
> not. =A0As for "3rd party intervention is needed", craigslist pretty much
> proves that premise to be a load of crap.
>
> nb
Craigslist transactions are overwhelmingly face to face transactions.
When you do faceless transactions, having a 3rd party is needed.
The one time I did not have the 3rd party in place, I got ripped off
by a seller....never ever again.
That one bad transaction has made me very cautious and sellers can
scream all they want...as a buyer it is a 3rd party in place or no
sale.
And since I hold the buyer, I can choose sellers that offer a 3rd
party option...and do.
The buyer is king...because without his money, nothing happens.
TMT
On 2009-07-02, LD <[email protected]> wrote:
> Then there are the Craigslist buyers casing the place for a later burglary
That's why I never replaced my front window with the bullet hole in it.
nb
On Jun 30, 3:50=A0am, Richard J Kinch <[email protected]> wrote:
> notbob writes:
> > Turns out a new policy requires I ship the item
> > before I can access the funds. =A0Screw that! =A0Nobody gets dammit bef=
ore I
> > have money in hand.
>
> So you're better than every merchant back to the Phoenecians?
>
> The Paypal funds-holding is exactly the way business has been done for
> centuries. =A0The merchant got paid when he presented the bank with the s=
hip
> captain's bill of lading, not before. =A0It was the brief conceit, now
> corrected, of eBay and Paypal that transacting business over the Internet
> would somehow be different. =A0All they've done is return to sound busine=
ss
> practices after a brief euphoric fantasy.
I'm not really sure how universally that new rule applies, either. It
may depend on amount of money and seller's background. I've sold a few
photo items, mostly lenses in the $300 and down range, since it was
enacted, and my funds were not delayed in transit. IIRC, I also sold a
camera body and lens package for about $550 since then.
"Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Too_Many_Tools" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
>> Craigslist transactions are overwhelmingly face to face transactions.
>
> Agreed. The several Craigslist purchases and sales I've made have all been
> face to face transactions with the buyer visiting the seller to pick up
> the
> item. There's a decided incentive there to not rip someone off when they
> know where you live.
>
>
Then there are the Craigslist buyers casing the place for a later burglary
...
On Jun 28, 10:37=A0am, "Jon Danniken" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> http://www.searchtempest.com/
>
> Jon
Interesting!
On Jun 28, 11:29=A0pm, Richard J Kinch <[email protected]> wrote:
> Charlie Self writes:
> > Electronic purchasing involves giving sensitive
> > info to people you don't know, no matter who you're buying from.
>
> People did buy and sell without face-to-face cash transactions in the pas=
t,
> you know. =A0Trusted intermediaries acted as transaction agents, known as
> "banks".
>
> I've sold $100,000s over the Web and no one gives me any "sensitive info"=
,
> except the occasional guy who insists on ordering with a credit card over
> the phone.
I have no idea how you conduct transactions without some way of
transferring money. If you trust banks today, you're unusual. I trust
my local bank. If it has branches in more than two or three rural
counties and half a dozen towns, I don't trust the bank.
In any case, transferring money from bank-to-bank requires account
numbers, which I consider sensitive info in a higher class than credit
card numbers.
Every time you use a credit card, you lay yourself open to careless
procedures that lose that info, where it may be picked up by crooks.
In your case, maybe not, but somehow your customers need to establish
a line of credit, just as in te old days of face-to-face transactions.
Back then, you didn't shake hands on a deal unless you were fairly
certain you'd get all five fingers back. Today, you can lose much
more. While credit card losses are stopped at 50 bucks, access to
those accounts can often provide access to other areas of a person's
life.
I've sold a good bit on eBay, and bought a lot, and I alway use
PayPal. As much as people knock it, it has worked well for me. The
seller gets no sensitive info.
On Jun 28, 4:17=A0am, George <[email protected]> wrote:
> I too hate the limitations of the Craiglist search engine so I get
> around it by using Google to search craigslist, enter Craigslist into
> the google search box and follow with the name or descriptive term for
> what you are searching for and you will be searching craigslist
> nationwide. Not perfect but it helps a lot.
Try
site:craigslist.com whatever
for better results. Be aware this also returns expired listings.
John,
I'm sure craigslist has attributes, but for ease of use and world-wide
coverage, nothing beats eBay. I hate the limitation of locality in the
craigslist construct.
Steve
"John Grossbohlin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Too_Many_Tools" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>I recently spent some time looking over Ebay for some
>> tools...wow..what has happened to Ebay?
>>
>> Could someone discuss what happened to turn the place to go to the
>> wasteland it is today?
>>
>
>
> RE eBay, their attempts at expansion put the auctions on the back seat.
> There is also the problems with shipping tools, particularly big
> stationary tools. Craig's List seems to be getting a big share of the
> tools around this part of the country.
>
> The three Craig's Lists I frequent are full of tools.... and some amazing
> deals. On the 24th a "slightly used Unisaw with 52" Beismyer (sic) fence
> system, mobile base, and out feed table" showed up for a couple hours...
> $300! About a month and a half ago I picked up a Delta 14" bandsaw with
> mobile base and fence in near new condition for $450 for my club
> (NWA)--half of what Amazon gets for the same saw. A couple weeks ago I
> picked up 36" Crescent bandsaw for myself. There's another 36" on there
> now (older and not in as good shape as mine) as well as big shapers,
> molding machines, lathes, table saws, mortisers, etc. Sad to say, the
> economy is bad enough that you could equip a shop with very nice
> stationary tools for a couple grand if you watch CL throughout the day and
> can move fast with cash.
>
> John
>
>
[email protected] wrote:
...
> Ebay is also not bad for relatively rare things that are heavy.
> Instead of searching by ending soonest, or by Ebay's best match,
> search on "least distance". I often search in the Industrial area of
> Ebay without anything in the search for box. So I see everything in
> the Business and Industrial category starting with the things that are
> closest starting with the used dental equipment that my neighbor
> sells.
...
If I'm actually looking for something on eBay, after the first browsing
session I use the auto-notify feature on a search. It works reasonably
well but isn't, of course, particularly useful for items wanted
immediately if one isn't found.
It is somewhat irritating that much of the actual content is now
professional retailers as opposed to the actual individual or occasional
bunch of stuff being sold for whatever reason, but it's not so
overwhelming if once get through the initial search; new items aren't so
prevalent.
As for the safety/danger; it's all in how one uses it and how well one
researches the record of the seller. I've never had a problem but I
only deal w/ either individuals (and it's pretty easy to spot the actual
one-of-a-kind type poster) or through those who have sizable responses
that have _very_ high ratings and low (in absolute numbers) of
complaints. I've bought stuff from the 25-cent curio and replacement
parts for the vintage lightning rods off the barn to a $multi-K 40-ft
JLG boomlift (sitting outside Chicago thru a broker in FL and shipped to
KS).
CL is useless here as well for the problem of being in the sticks unless
one is prepared to drive several hundred miles on a wild goose chase;
there's simply nowhere close enough with sufficient population to have
any stuff of interest listed to be practical.
--
Too_Many_Tools wrote:
> On Jun 29, 11:38 am, notbob <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On 2009-06-28, John Grossbohlin <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
...
>> ...I just sold an item for a couple hundred bucks and discovered paypal
>> was holding my funds. Turns out a new policy requires I ship the item
>> before I can access the funds. Screw that! Nobody gets dammit before I
>> have money in hand. This is about the third time abay made it safer for the
>> buyer while increasing my risk as a seller. If ebay wants to play that
>> game, they can play without me.
>>
>> nb
>
> From what you are describing, it sounds like the sellers abused the
> system and drove the buyers away.
There's always been scamsters on both ends from the git-go...it's hard
to tell whether it's worse on the sellers' or the buyers' side.
Sounds to me that the Paypal-holding route is about as fair as it can
get to both buyer _and_ seller as long as Paypal is straight, anyway.
Why should the buyer take any more risk the product won't be delivered
than the seller? At least that way the funds are in a (supposedly
neutral and reputable) set of hands.
There's no way an exchange from afar can be completely equal--either one
or the other or both have to make a step or there's an impasse.
--
In article <f2847828-e9f4-447b-bcca-e3806538d6b5@h18g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>,
Charlie Self <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>I have no idea how you conduct transactions without some way of
>transferring money. If you trust banks today, you're unusual. ..
http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/2009-05-10/
--
-Ed Falk, [email protected]
http://thespamdiaries.blogspot.com/
notbob wrote:
> On 2009-07-01, Too_Many_Tools <[email protected]> wrote:
>> When you do faceless transactions, having a 3rd party is needed.
>
> No, it's not.
>
>> The one time I did not have the 3rd party in place, I got ripped off
>> by a seller....never ever again.
>
> I once got ripped off, face to face, by a so-called friend. Your
> sweeping generalizations are invalid.
>
>> That one bad transaction has made me very cautious......
>
> That's the key. Trust your feelings.
My good buddy and golf partner that recently died bought and sold stuff
on Ebay routinely over the past 10 years. Lots of stuff. The week
before he died, he put his almost new Harley on there and sold it for
$14,000. I would guess he bought and sold thousands of things on there,
not as a business either. He would buy stuff, and if it was not what he
wanted, or got tired of it, he would sell it. He bought guns, golf
clubs, golf supplies, knives, you name it he was always buying
something. I periodically asked him if he got ripped off yet, he said
he never once got screwed. He said people are far more honest than you
would think... Still I'm certain he had some feelings about the
transaction, I know I do and I've probably bought only 5-6 things off
them.
I've never been ripped off from an ebay sale, and really don't know
anyone thats been screwed. I still am not all that trusting of anyone,
except in small amounts of money where I'm not too worried about it.
There are plenty of honest people around, and only a very few crooks.
But then it only takes one crook to piss in your Wheaties.
--
Jack
Using FREE News Server: http://www.eternal-september.org/
http://jbstein.com
"Charlie Self" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
On Jun 28, 5:42 am, "Steve Lusardi" <[email protected]> wrote:
> John,
> I'm sure craigslist has attributes, but for ease of use and world-wide
> coverage, nothing beats eBay. I hate the limitation of locality in the
> craigslist construct.
> Steve
>
> "John Grossbohlin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...
>
>
>
> > "Too_Many_Tools" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >news:[email protected]...
> >>I recently spent some time looking over Ebay for some
> >> tools...wow..what has happened to Ebay?
>
> >> Could someone discuss what happened to turn the place to go to the
> >> wasteland it is today?
>
> > RE eBay, their attempts at expansion put the auctions on the back seat.
> > There is also the problems with shipping tools, particularly big
> > stationary tools. Craig's List seems to be getting a big share of the
> > tools around this part of the country.
>
> > The three Craig's Lists I frequent are full of tools.... and some
> > amazing
> > deals. On the 24th a "slightly used Unisaw with 52" Beismyer (sic) fence
> > system, mobile base, and out feed table" showed up for a couple hours...
> > $300! About a month and a half ago I picked up a Delta 14" bandsaw with
> > mobile base and fence in near new condition for $450 for my club
> > (NWA)--half of what Amazon gets for the same saw. A couple weeks ago I
> > picked up 36" Crescent bandsaw for myself. There's another 36" on there
> > now (older and not in as good shape as mine) as well as big shapers,
> > molding machines, lathes, table saws, mortisers, etc. Sad to say, the
> > economy is bad enough that you could equip a shop with very nice
> > stationary tools for a couple grand if you watch CL throughout the day
> > and
> > can move fast with cash.
>
> > John
-Add to that the response from scammers. I've got a car up on the
-Roanoke, VA CL; I've so far had about a dozen nitwits who want to help
-me get through the recession because I'm selling an old car I don't
-need. I've had only one bite on the car, a tire kicker, what a friend
-used to call a "beeback," as in, "I gotta talk to my wife about the
-money. I'll be back tomorrow." That's the last you see or hear of the
-guy.
I'm afraid that nitwits goes with any kinds of sales... even in person in
retail stores with fixed prices and new products. ;~)
Same thing with scammers.... doesn't matter if it's at a yard sale, news
paper ad, Pennysaver ad, CL, eBay, e-mail solicitations, or whatever. Be
aware and using your brains to assess the situation is all you can do...
Most of the scams I see and hear smell funny. Maybe we needs a Snopes for
ads! LOL
-As far as I can tell, for heavier stuff, the local papers are still
-king. When I'm flipping through camera lenses and such, I use eBay.
-Same with old tools, though it does look as if I'll hold on to my two
-bit extra braces forever.
The classified ads in the local paper are expensive and a waste of time.
We've also lost a lot of the smaller papers in the area in the past year or
so the alternatives are slim pickings. I suppose this too is a locality
thing...
John
"Too_Many_Tools" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I recently spent some time looking over Ebay for some
> tools...wow..what has happened to Ebay?
>
> Could someone discuss what happened to turn the place to go to the
> wasteland it is today?
>
RE eBay, their attempts at expansion put the auctions on the back seat.
There is also the problems with shipping tools, particularly big stationary
tools. Craig's List seems to be getting a big share of the tools around this
part of the country.
The three Craig's Lists I frequent are full of tools.... and some amazing
deals. On the 24th a "slightly used Unisaw with 52" Beismyer (sic) fence
system, mobile base, and out feed table" showed up for a couple hours...
$300! About a month and a half ago I picked up a Delta 14" bandsaw with
mobile base and fence in near new condition for $450 for my club (NWA)--half
of what Amazon gets for the same saw. A couple weeks ago I picked up 36"
Crescent bandsaw for myself. There's another 36" on there now (older and not
in as good shape as mine) as well as big shapers, molding machines, lathes,
table saws, mortisers, etc. Sad to say, the economy is bad enough that you
could equip a shop with very nice stationary tools for a couple grand if you
watch CL throughout the day and can move fast with cash.
John
"Steve Lusardi" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> John,
> I'm sure craigslist has attributes, but for ease of use and world-wide
> coverage, nothing beats eBay. I hate the limitation of locality in the
> craigslist construct.
> Steve
>
It clearly depends on what you are looking for or are trying to sell. I
actually see the locality thing as a benefit... but that's because the stuff
I buy is big and often heavy, not sendable by regular UPS or USPS. As such I
don't care a hoot about a bandsaw on the left coast but one in the upper
part of someone's empire state is of interest. ;~)
Of the things I've listed for sale, or free just to get rid of it, sometimes
the response is almost over whelming on CL. I also have no interest in
packaging or shipping anything... some an get it!
Cl is a better alternative to a yard sale in my view for several reasons. I
can get rid of one or two items at a time. I don't have to sit around all
day waiting for people and don't have to spend a day or more setting up and
taking down.
The local Freecycle list generates about 30-40 items per day. Some of the
stuff people are giving away is amazing but mostly household items,
appliances and clothing. Not many tools outside of lawn mowers, lawn
tractors and the occasional snow blower.
John
On Sun, 28 Jun 2009 11:42:11 +0200, "Steve Lusardi"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>I hate the limitation of locality in the
>craigslist construct.
I am not familiar with Craigslist, so I can't compare, but Ebay also
has considerable locality issues.
--
RoRo
Too_Many_Tools wrote:
> I recently spent some time looking over Ebay for some
> tools...wow..what has happened to Ebay?
>
> Could someone discuss what happened to turn the place to go to the
> wasteland it is today?
>
> Thanks
>
> TMT
I generally search ebay within 500 miles of home (Orlando, Fl) for big
tools and the supply has varied up an down over the 10 years I have been
using ebay. The supply of big tools (lathes, mills, shapers, etc) is
pretty good right now. However, the 3 closest historically big ebay
machinery sellers are starting to post a lot of things on craigslist.
Prices are better now than since about 2004-5.
For smaller stuff (inserts, endmills) the supply is still there, but
prices seem pretty steep. A lot of the sellers are using ebay as their
online mail order catalog, no bargains. Exceptions exist, there is a
surplus guy about 15 miles from me who deals in electronic test
equipment. He gets occasional metalworking items, I just picked up 18
unused endmills from him for $33, 12 brubaker 1 1/2" roughing and 6
Hanita 1 1/2". I though that was a pretty good deal.
I have never been really ripped off on ebay, maybe I'm just lucky. A
couple of things were not as good as discribed, but I always assume that
anyway. Several times I got smoking deals and sellers refused to
deliver but I lost no money on the deals.
In the last 18 months I have bought a mill, a t&C grinder and a BIG
drill press off craigslist.
CarlBoyd
"Too_Many_Tools" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I recently spent some time looking over Ebay for some
> tools...wow..what has happened to Ebay?
>
> Could someone discuss what happened to turn the place to go to the
> wasteland it is today?
>
> Thanks
>
> TMT
Evolution?
On 2009-07-06, Hammer Hands <[email protected]> wrote:
> Ignoramus12074 <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> As a seller, I no longer "like" eBay due to unfair policies that it
>> promotes in a misguided desperation for "growth". They have all been
>> mentioned here. As a buyer, I find a lot less to buy, for the same
>> reason.
>>
>> However, Craigslist, which I like a lot, has perhaps 1/100th of
>> potential buyers compared to ebay. It does not offer many attractive
>> bargains either. Too many losers advertising overpriced crap for
>> months. Here we have a guy who hawks his overpriced junk (he wants new
>> prices for very used things), and says "moving, must sell". He's been
>> selling those things for over a year!
>>
>> i
>>
>
> You wouldn't happen to be refering to the 33rd St. spammer from San Diego
> would you? If not it seems that we have one here too.
No, I am referring to a loser from St Charles, IL.
http://chicago.craigslist.org/wcl/tls/1252311074.html
http://chicago.craigslist.org/wcl/tls/1252325102.html
http://chicago.craigslist.org/wcl/tls/1248483713.html
"notbob" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 2009-07-02, LD <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Then there are the Craigslist buyers casing the place for a later
>> burglary
>
> That's why I never replaced my front window with the bullet hole in it.
>
> nb
LOL!
On 2009-06-28, George <[email protected]> wrote:
> I too hate the limitations of the Craiglist search engine so I get
> around it by using Google to search craigslist, enter Craigslist into
> the google search box and follow with the name or descriptive term for
> what you are searching for and you will be searching craigslist
> nationwide. Not perfect but it helps a lot.
Quite true. I listed an item on craigslist for my local area, yet finally
sold it after responses from all over the country.
nb
David Nebenzahl wrote:
> On 6/29/2009 11:00 AM notbob spake thus:
>
>> Despite a perfect 100% rating as a seller, I've had enough.
>
> Same here. I have (or had, before eBay queered the feedback rules) a
> 100% rating as both seller and buyer. But the deck is clearly stacked
> against sellers (at least small, non-corporate, non-"store" sellers).
>
> Fuck it.
Exactly. I used to be a regular seller on eBay and their rules made it
far too difficult to bother with, buyers got to screw the sellers, the
sellers had virtually no help if anyone ever complained. I had a 100%
positive rating, but I didn't want to deal with the nonsense anymore.
Of course, once I stopped selling on eBay, I stopped buying there too.
They lost a crapload of money by pissing dedicated sellers off over the
last couple of years.