Ran a test with #10 biscuits on a right angle butt joint. End grain to long
grain. Two biscuits in the joint. 24 hours later, pulled the joint apart,
took less force then I expected. The biscuits pulled apart, some left in
each piece.
So my question is, does anyone make solid wood biscuits? Google didn't seem
to have anything.
Thanks, by the way, there is much info to be gathered here. Thanks for that
too.
My Take on biscuits ( and I have used them quite a bit
over 10 years or so - as a hobbyist) is that they provide
a lot of lateral "hold" but not necessarily a lot of
vertical load support left to their own "devices" so to
speak. I'm not sure about "alignment" because there is
quite a bit of "play" with biscuits IMHO.
I have not had joints separate when I used biscuits.
I use them for face frames and such (much like pocket
screws) which I would like to start using but hate to start
yet another "software" item in the shop.
Usually, I cut the FF, then cut the slots. After aligning everything
on a cabinet front, I glue up the biscuit then shoot a brad
into the cabinet which holds until the glue dries.
"Until the glue dries" gets you through a lot of
time just waiting for inspiration or whatever.
I have let glue dry for days at a time. Most projects are
better for that.
I know...get the Kreg 2,000,000 etc.
Ok, Ok...
Lou
In article <[email protected]>, Rick Samuel
<[email protected]> wrote:
> Ran a test with #10 biscuits on a right angle butt joint. End grain to long
> grain. Two biscuits in the joint. 24 hours later, pulled the joint apart,
> took less force then I expected. The biscuits pulled apart, some left in
> each piece.
> So my question is, does anyone make solid wood biscuits? Google didn't seem
> to have anything.
> Thanks, by the way, there is much info to be gathered here. Thanks for that
> too.
>
>
Doug Miller wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, "Rick Samuel" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >Ran a test with #10 biscuits on a right angle butt joint. End grain to long
> >grain. Two biscuits in the joint. 24 hours later, pulled the joint apart,
> >took less force then I expected. The biscuits pulled apart, some left in
> >each piece.
> >So my question is, does anyone make solid wood biscuits? Google didn't seem
> >to have anything.
>
> My questions are:
> a) What kind of biscuits are you using, anyway? AFAIK, they're *all* solid
> wood.
> b) Presumably, this was done as a test, a prototype for a project. Is there
> some reason you couldn't use a mortise and tenon, or at least #20 biscuits?
>
Biscuits are usually compressed birch or beech, IIRC. Biscuits are
primarily alignment devices, adding only a tiny bit to strength in a
joint. You're right: M&T would have been better, and far stronger, but
larger biscuits, and even two biscuits, one atop the other (with at
least 1/4" between slots, would have been better.
Too, there's the question of glue. What kind, what kind of clamping and
for how long?
In article <[email protected]>, "Rick Samuel" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Ran a test with #10 biscuits on a right angle butt joint. End grain to long
>grain. Two biscuits in the joint. 24 hours later, pulled the joint apart,
>took less force then I expected. The biscuits pulled apart, some left in
>each piece.
>So my question is, does anyone make solid wood biscuits? Google didn't seem
>to have anything.
My questions are:
a) What kind of biscuits are you using, anyway? AFAIK, they're *all* solid
wood.
b) Presumably, this was done as a test, a prototype for a project. Is there
some reason you couldn't use a mortise and tenon, or at least #20 biscuits?
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?
David wrote:
> Actually, they are comprised of BITS of compressed wood. Usually birch.
>
> Doug Miller wrote:
>
>
>> a) What kind of biscuits are you using, anyway? AFAIK, they're *all*
>> solid wood.
>>
See the second paragraph in the article at:
http://www.woodcraft.com/articles.aspx?articleid=243
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
[email protected]
(Remove -SPAM- to send email)
On Sun, 5 Jun 2005 11:30:39 -0500, "Rick Samuel" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Ran a test with #10 biscuits on a right angle butt joint. End grain to long
>grain. Two biscuits in the joint. 24 hours later, pulled the joint apart,
>took less force then I expected. The biscuits pulled apart, some left in
>each piece.
>So my question is, does anyone make solid wood biscuits? Google didn't seem
>to have anything.
>Thanks, by the way, there is much info to be gathered here. Thanks for that
>too.
>
most biscuits are very dry, very compressed wood fibers, usually beech..
the theory is, when the moisture in the glue hits them, they expand..
I can buy into this easily, after my one attempt at gluing one side of a joint
first, as I would do with dowels.. the biscuit didn't fit in the slot on the
other piece any more..
mac
Please remove splinters before emailing
I looked again. I see what you mean. I must have misunderstood a
description that I read online today. My PC biscuits are compressed (of
course), but appear to be from a single piece of wood. I'll sleep well
tonight knowing the truth of the matter. :)
Dave
Doug Miller wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, David <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Actually, they are comprised of BITS of compressed wood. Usually birch.
>
>
> No biscuit I've ever seen. You might want to look again.
>
Thickness as you say, imperfect cuts and Loose jagged edges. Lamellos are
all the same thickness and no jagged edges.
--
Rumpty
Radial Arm Saw Forum: http://forums.delphiforums.com/woodbutcher/start
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, "Rumpty"
<[email protected]> wrote:
> >This does sound like a mechanical problem, IMO. Also PC biscuits are
CRAP.
>
> The only problem I've noticed with them is inconsistent thickness, which
is
> easily solved with a wastebasket. What other problems are you aware of?
>
> --
> Regards,
> Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
>
> Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
> And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?
To the OP, by any chance are you using a Ryobi biscuit joiner?
--
Larry Wasserman Baltimore, Maryland
[email protected]
In article <[email protected]>, "Rick Samuel" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Biscuits are Porter Cable brand.
P-C biscuits are solid wood, with the grain running diagonally across the
biscuit. They're stamped and compressed, not machined, but they *are* solid
wood.
>Glue is Titebond II. Clamped 3hrs, left
>24 hrs. Biscuits are not solid wood, but some kind (?) of chipped wood
>pressed together. The breaks were not along any grain. No grain visible.
Look again. You missed it the first time.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?
"Rick Samuel" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Ran a test with #10 biscuits on a right angle butt joint. End grain to
> long grain. Two biscuits in the joint. 24 hours later, pulled the joint
> apart, took less force then I expected. The biscuits pulled apart, some
> left in each piece.
> So my question is, does anyone make solid wood biscuits? Google didn't
> seem to have anything.
> Thanks, by the way, there is much info to be gathered here. Thanks for
> that too.
I have never seen a biscuit that is not solid wood. If you had pieces left
in each half it most likely broke along the grain. If any pulled out of the
slot revealing the original slot surface you may not have had enough glue in
the slot.
Leon wrote:
> I have never seen a biscuit that is not solid wood. If you had pieces left
> in each half it most likely broke along the grain. If any pulled out of the
> slot revealing the original slot surface you may not have had enough glue in
> the slot.
>
>
Lamello has come out with a new biscuit called "Fibro". It's supposed
to give high omni-directional strength and it is not humidity sensitive.
See:
http://www.lamello.com/english/fibro_e.pdf
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
[email protected]
(Remove -SPAM- to send email)
PC brand biscuits are of lower quality than is acceptable for a commercial
shop. You want Lamello.
--
Rumpty
Radial Arm Saw Forum: http://forums.delphiforums.com/woodbutcher/start
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
"Rick Samuel" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Biscuits are Porter Cable brand. Glue is Titebond II. Clamped 3hrs, left
> 24 hrs. Biscuits are not solid wood, but some kind (?) of chipped wood
> pressed together. The breaks were not along any grain. No grain visible.
>
>
"David" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Actually, they are comprised of BITS of compressed wood. Usually birch.
>
Actually mine are solid wood. You can see streaks in the grain run all the
way across the biscuit. Breaking it exposes a straight line break along the
grain. Looking closely however reveals that the biscuits are stamped out so
that the end grain of the wood is rough for better glue absorption
This does sound like a mechanical problem, IMO. Also PC biscuits are CRAP.
--
Rumpty
Radial Arm Saw Forum: http://forums.delphiforums.com/woodbutcher/start
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
"Lawrence Wasserman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> To the OP, by any chance are you using a Ryobi biscuit joiner?
>
>
>
> --
>
> Larry Wasserman Baltimore, Maryland
> [email protected]
>
In article <[email protected]>,
Rick Samuel <[email protected]> wrote:
>Ran a test with #10 biscuits on a right angle butt joint. End grain to long
>grain. Two biscuits in the joint. 24 hours later, pulled the joint apart,
>took less force then I expected. The biscuits pulled apart, some left in
>each piece.
>So my question is, does anyone make solid wood biscuits? Google didn't seem
>to have anything.
>Thanks, by the way, there is much info to be gathered here. Thanks for that
>too.
>
>
You didn't forget the glue, did you? (kidding) But, it does sound like
there was a problem with the glue or gluing technique used. BTW,
normal biscuits ARE made from solid wood, usually beech, that is
machine compressed so that they expand after absorbing moisture from
glue or surrounding wood.
--
Larry Wasserman Baltimore, Maryland
[email protected]
In article <[email protected]>, David <[email protected]> wrote:
>What brand are you using?
>dave
Yeah, really. I want to know too, so I don't buy them.
>
>Leon wrote:
>
>> "David" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>
>>>Actually, they are comprised of BITS of compressed wood. Usually birch.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Actually mine are solid wood. You can see streaks in the grain run all the
>> way across the biscuit. Breaking it exposes a straight line break along the
>> grain. Looking closely however reveals that the biscuits are stamped out so
>> that the end grain of the wood is rough for better glue absorption
>>
>>
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?
On Mon, 06 Jun 2005 19:07:49 GMT, [email protected] (Lawrence
Wasserman) wrote:
>To the OP, by any chance are you using a Ryobi biscuit joiner?
or a Harbor Freight special, like my first one.. rofl
mac
Please remove splinters before emailing
In article <[email protected]>, "Rumpty" <[email protected]> wrote:
>This does sound like a mechanical problem, IMO. Also PC biscuits are CRAP.
The only problem I've noticed with them is inconsistent thickness, which is
easily solved with a wastebasket. What other problems are you aware of?
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?
What brand are you using?
dave
Leon wrote:
> "David" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>Actually, they are comprised of BITS of compressed wood. Usually birch.
>>
>
>
> Actually mine are solid wood. You can see streaks in the grain run all the
> way across the biscuit. Breaking it exposes a straight line break along the
> grain. Looking closely however reveals that the biscuits are stamped out so
> that the end grain of the wood is rough for better glue absorption
>
>
In article <[email protected]>, "Rumpty" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Thickness as you say, imperfect cuts and Loose jagged edges. Lamellos are
>all the same thickness and no jagged edges.
>
I've observed the imperfect cuts and loose jagged edges too, but haven't found
them to be problems.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?
In article <[email protected]>,
David <[email protected]> wrote:
>Actually, they are comprised of BITS of compressed wood. Usually birch.
Well, if you call a single bicuit-sized piece of solid wood a BIT...
But they ARE made from a single piece of wood, they are NOT made like
particle board or OSB if that is what you are asserting. And usually
from beech.
--
Larry Wasserman Baltimore, Maryland
[email protected]
On Sun, 05 Jun 2005 20:55:42 -0700, David <[email protected]> wrote:
>I looked again. I see what you mean. I must have misunderstood a
>description that I read online today. My PC biscuits are compressed (of
>course), but appear to be from a single piece of wood. I'll sleep well
>tonight knowing the truth of the matter. :)
>
>Dave
>
maybe they have a bunch of elves running them through those food dehydrators
that they have infomercials for?
mac
Please remove splinters before emailing
see my later post
Dave
Lawrence Wasserman wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> David <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Actually, they are comprised of BITS of compressed wood. Usually birch.
>
>
> Well, if you call a single bicuit-sized piece of solid wood a BIT...
>
> But they ARE made from a single piece of wood, they are NOT made like
> particle board or OSB if that is what you are asserting. And usually
> from beech.
>
>
>
>
>
In article <[email protected]>, David <[email protected]> wrote:
>Actually, they are comprised of BITS of compressed wood. Usually birch.
No biscuit I've ever seen. You might want to look again.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?