bn

"buck"

30/01/2005 11:39 PM

Do they make a concrete mix that.... Little OT

Do they make any kind of "concrete type" material that gets hard like
concrete but does not weight as much like a composite or plastic or
something. Weird question I know, but I have my reasons. Looking to fill
up a 3' long 8" tube form with dense solid material like concrete, but don't
want all of the weight of concrete, but still has to be a strong solid.
-TIA


This topic has 30 replies

LJ

Larry Jaques

in reply to "buck" on 30/01/2005 11:39 PM

01/02/2005 8:38 PM

On Tue, 1 Feb 2005 18:25:02 -0500, the inscrutable "Joe"
<[email protected]> spake:

>> "Concrete canoe" will probably work even better, Joe. ;)

>"Koncrete Kanue" is what I had in mind to type... :)

Go for it. You might even find someone who spelled it that
way. I called one of my t-shirt lines the "Schnazzy" collection.
Not too many people spell it that way so it's unique. The only
difference is that I -intended- to do that. ;)


---------------------------------------------------------------
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what you can avoid altogether. | Dynamic Website Applications
---------------------------------------------------------------

bR

[email protected] (Robert Bonomi)

in reply to "buck" on 30/01/2005 11:39 PM

03/02/2005 11:59 PM

In article <[email protected]>,
Charles Krug <[email protected]> wrote:
>On Wed, 02 Feb 2005 17:13:29 -0800, Larry Jaques <novalidaddress@di>
>wrote:
>> On Wed, 2 Feb 2005 01:32:00 -0500, the inscrutable "Joe"
>><[email protected]> spake:
>>
>>>> Not too many people spell it that way so it's unique. The only
>>>> difference is that I -intended- to do that. ;)
>>>
>>>Sure... rub it in. :)
>>
>> Ah, you betcha. ;)
>>
>
>Had a guy in our hometown who spent 10+ years building a boat out of
>concrete and steel, poured in place.
>
>All that's necessary for it to float is that it displace enough water,
>and as most of the volume is air (think about it) it wasn't that tall an
>order, much as my 7yo self had trouble believing it.
>

When my _father_ was in secondary school the *first* of the big crepe-soled
shoes came out. A local shoe store put a fish-tank in their window, with
about a half-tank of water, and one of these shoes floating thereon. Big
sign: "So light it *FLOATS*!!" Some smart-ass kid (no _not_ my father!)
took a sheet of his notebook paper, and stuck it to the aforementioned
window with a couple of those glue-on re-inforcing rings for the punched
holes, and then scribbled on the paper "So does a battleship".

The entire display was _gone_, the next day.


TK

Thomas Kendrick

in reply to "buck" on 30/01/2005 11:39 PM

31/01/2005 6:43 AM

A few questions regarding your requirements:
1. How much weight reduction are you willing to pay for?
2. What load does it need to sustain and in which dimension?
3. What are the appearance considerations?
4. Does the material need to "cure" from a slurry to a firm solid like
concrete or can it already be a solid? Is the concrete-type so that it
will pour into the form OR so that other things can be imbedded into
it without drilling/gluing?

Here are some ideas:
A. 8" o.d. steel pipe 36" long painted gray, recessed steel disk
welded into each end, concrete fill in the recess flush with end of
pipe.
B. 8" o.d. aluminum pipe 36" long, recessed steel disks connected by
4" steel pipe, flush concrete fill in the recesses.
C. Engineered lumber frame/form wrapped in metal mesh filled with
concrete.
D. White pine or fir frame covered in metal mesh. Concrete mixture is
plastered onto the metal mesh to bring the finished form to full
diameter and length. The wood bears the required load

The density can be reduced in several ways:
- replace part of the concrete mix with lower-density solids
- put the concrete only at the necessary points and connect with
metal/wood which may contain air spaces
- cast the concrete around a closed form within the tube creating a
hollow cylinder. The form stands off the bottom on chairs used for
highway mesh


On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 23:39:55 -0700, "buck" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Do they make any kind of "concrete type" material that gets hard like
>concrete but does not weight as much like a composite or plastic or
>something. Weird question I know, but I have my reasons. Looking to fill
>up a 3' long 8" tube form with dense solid material like concrete, but don't
>want all of the weight of concrete, but still has to be a strong solid.
>-TIA
>

k

in reply to "buck" on 30/01/2005 11:39 PM

31/01/2005 7:08 AM

Several possibilities, on commercial buildings a lightweight concrete
is used for building up roof areas for proper drainage to drains. This
is pumped to the roof, looks like gypsum. Gypsum floor leveler may be
another option. Mortar mix with vermiculite as a filler?
Never tried this , just a thought.
mike

dd

"david"

in reply to "buck" on 30/01/2005 11:39 PM

01/02/2005 1:35 AM

Expanding polyurethane ?

bn

"buck"

in reply to "buck" on 30/01/2005 11:39 PM

31/01/2005 11:10 AM

Hey Tom.... Some great ideas.... I like your engineering mind. What I need
is a wet type mix that can be poured into the size form that I
mentioned..... Concrete would be perfect but would be about 100 pounds when
done..... Looking for something that would have the approx strength of
concrete but when done would weight maybe 50-60 pounds. No other solution
will work such as pipes, wood, wire, etc. I thought that maybe their was a
"plastic type" mixture that would end up weighing less.... like a
concrete/plastic mix.
-Thanks for all the great thinking...


"Thomas Kendrick" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:1107175182.88cf3ae4e447fa1be53190d869669dff@teranews...
> A few questions regarding your requirements:
> 1. How much weight reduction are you willing to pay for?
> 2. What load does it need to sustain and in which dimension?
> 3. What are the appearance considerations?
> 4. Does the material need to "cure" from a slurry to a firm solid like
> concrete or can it already be a solid? Is the concrete-type so that it
> will pour into the form OR so that other things can be imbedded into
> it without drilling/gluing?
>
> Here are some ideas:
> A. 8" o.d. steel pipe 36" long painted gray, recessed steel disk
> welded into each end, concrete fill in the recess flush with end of
> pipe.
> B. 8" o.d. aluminum pipe 36" long, recessed steel disks connected by
> 4" steel pipe, flush concrete fill in the recesses.
> C. Engineered lumber frame/form wrapped in metal mesh filled with
> concrete.
> D. White pine or fir frame covered in metal mesh. Concrete mixture is
> plastered onto the metal mesh to bring the finished form to full
> diameter and length. The wood bears the required load
>
> The density can be reduced in several ways:
> - replace part of the concrete mix with lower-density solids
> - put the concrete only at the necessary points and connect with
> metal/wood which may contain air spaces
> - cast the concrete around a closed form within the tube creating a
> hollow cylinder. The form stands off the bottom on chairs used for
> highway mesh
>
>
> On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 23:39:55 -0700, "buck" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >Do they make any kind of "concrete type" material that gets hard like
> >concrete but does not weight as much like a composite or plastic or
> >something. Weird question I know, but I have my reasons. Looking to
fill
> >up a 3' long 8" tube form with dense solid material like concrete, but
don't
> >want all of the weight of concrete, but still has to be a strong solid.
> >-TIA
> >
>

Jn

"Joe"

in reply to "buck" on 30/01/2005 11:39 PM

31/01/2005 6:51 PM

They used to make (still do?) cinder blocks from concrete and syrofoam... I
think you had to fill them with concrete after the wall was built up
though...
--


Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
http://www.autodrill.com
http://www.multi-spindle-heads.com

V8013

My eBay: http://tinyurl.com/3n8gj

Jn

"Joe"

in reply to "buck" on 30/01/2005 11:39 PM

31/01/2005 7:07 PM

> Google for
> concrete canoe
>
> One of the contests the engineering students had when I was in college
> ('77-'82) was building a canoe out of concrete. I saw one that wasn't
> successful -- concrete with small Styrofoam balls as the filler. Other
> designs were more successful. Over 200,000 google hits. Good luck.
> ;-)Maybe try "concrete canoe" (quotes help)

"Mark Jerde" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:kHzLd.2035$dB4.1854@trnddc06...
> buck wrote:
>> Do they make any kind of "concrete type" material that gets hard like
>> concrete but does not weight as much like a composite or plastic or
>> something. Weird question I know, but I have my reasons.
>
> Google for
> concrete canoe
>
> One of the contests the engineering students had when I was in college
> ('77-'82) was building a canoe out of concrete. I saw one that wasn't
> successful -- concrete with small styrofoam balls as the filler. Other
> designs were more successful. Over 200,000 google hits. Good luck. ;-)
>
> -- Mark
>
>

Jn

"Joe"

in reply to "buck" on 30/01/2005 11:39 PM

31/01/2005 7:08 PM

Argh... That was supposed to simply say:

"Try 'concrete canue' as the quotes help"
--


Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
http://www.autodrill.com
http://www.multi-spindle-heads.com

V8013

My eBay: http://tinyurl.com/3n8gj

Jn

"Joe"

in reply to "buck" on 30/01/2005 11:39 PM

01/02/2005 6:25 PM

> "Concrete canoe" will probably work even better, Joe. ;)


"Koncrete Kanue" is what I had in mind to type... :)

Jn

"Joe"

in reply to "buck" on 30/01/2005 11:39 PM

02/02/2005 1:32 AM

> Not too many people spell it that way so it's unique. The only
> difference is that I -intended- to do that. ;)

Sure... rub it in. :)
--


Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
http://www.autodrill.com
http://www.multi-spindle-heads.com

V8013

My eBay: http://tinyurl.com/3n8gj

bn

"buck"

in reply to "buck" on 30/01/2005 11:39 PM

31/01/2005 11:14 AM

..... Will goe to HD today to talk to someone.... thnx


"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "buck" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Do they make any kind of "concrete type" material that gets hard like
> > concrete but does not weight as much like a composite or plastic or
> > something. Weird question I know, but I have my reasons. Looking to
fill
> > up a 3' long 8" tube form with dense solid material like concrete, but
> > don't
> > want all of the weight of concrete, but still has to be a strong solid.
> > -TIA
>
> Yes there and it is commonly found at Home Depot or Lowe's. IIRC Sackrete
> makes Maxamizer. While still heavy typically 3, 80-90 lb. bags will cover
> the same area of 5 regular 80-90 lb. bags.
>
>

bn

"buck"

in reply to "buck" on 30/01/2005 11:39 PM

31/01/2005 10:01 PM

I now deem that this thread is dead..... Once we get into concrete canoes I
draw the line.... LOL
Thanks to all for great ideas.




bn

"buck"

in reply to "buck" on 30/01/2005 11:39 PM

31/01/2005 11:11 AM

Mortar mix with vermiculite....... hmmmmmmmm Will think about that.
-thanks


<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Several possibilities, on commercial buildings a lightweight concrete
> is used for building up roof areas for proper drainage to drains. This
> is pumped to the roof, looks like gypsum. Gypsum floor leveler may be
> another option. Mortar mix with vermiculite as a filler?
> Never tried this , just a thought.
> mike
>

LM

"Lee Michaels"

in reply to "buck" on 30/01/2005 11:39 PM

31/01/2005 10:10 AM


"buck" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Do they make any kind of "concrete type" material that gets hard like
> concrete but does not weight as much like a composite or plastic or
> something. Weird question I know, but I have my reasons. Looking to fill
> up a 3' long 8" tube form with dense solid material like concrete, but
> don't
> want all of the weight of concrete, but still has to be a strong solid.
> -TIA
>
>
Just a suggestion.

I would look into the kind of concrete used in pouring the chimneys. It is
a lightweight concrete that uses some kind of insulating, lightweight
aggregrate. (pearllite?) They pour it into old chimneys to make them fire
proof and stronger.

I don't know anything about it. Just saw it on TOH.


jn

justme

in reply to "buck" on 30/01/2005 11:39 PM

01/02/2005 5:17 AM

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
> Do they make any kind of "concrete type" material that gets hard like
> concrete but does not weight as much like a composite or plastic or
> something. Weird question I know, but I have my reasons. Looking to fill
> up a 3' long 8" tube form with dense solid material like concrete, but don't
> want all of the weight of concrete, but still has to be a strong solid.
> -TIA
>
>
>

They make a concrete that is mixed with Styrofoam beads. I believe it's
used to insulate steam pipes. I seem to recall it took a special
coating on the beads to prevent them from clumping, do I don't know if
it a DIY type of thing.

MJ

"Mark Jerde"

in reply to "buck" on 30/01/2005 11:39 PM

01/02/2005 12:26 AM

... or a simple url... ;-)
http://www.google.com/search?q=concrete+canoe

-- Mark

Joe wrote:
> Argh... That was supposed to simply say:
>
> "Try 'concrete canue' as the quotes help"

LJ

Larry Jaques

in reply to "buck" on 30/01/2005 11:39 PM

02/02/2005 5:13 PM

On Wed, 2 Feb 2005 01:32:00 -0500, the inscrutable "Joe"
<[email protected]> spake:

>> Not too many people spell it that way so it's unique. The only
>> difference is that I -intended- to do that. ;)
>
>Sure... rub it in. :)

Ah, you betcha. ;)


--
The clear and present danger of top-posting explored at:
http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote2.html
------------------------------------------------------
http://diversify.com Premium Website Development

WS

Wes Stewart

in reply to "buck" on 30/01/2005 11:39 PM

31/01/2005 9:12 AM

On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 23:39:55 -0700, "buck" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Do they make any kind of "concrete type" material that gets hard like
>concrete but does not weight as much like a composite or plastic or
>something. Weird question I know, but I have my reasons. Looking to fill
>up a 3' long 8" tube form with dense solid material like concrete, but don't
>want all of the weight of concrete, but still has to be a strong solid.
>-TIA
>

Maybe some info on the application would help. DAGS for lightweight
concrete and you'll get a lot of alternatives.

Jm

"J"

in reply to "buck" on 30/01/2005 11:39 PM

31/01/2005 5:34 PM

Concrete canoes are built using concrete with a high strength to weight
ratio and often some complex reinforcement. This is a different problem than
trying to find the lightest concrete. I'd think something with vermiculite
or pumice as an aggregate would be a better choice. A high slump mix so the
stuff doesn't float to the top.

-j


"Mark Jerde" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:Y0ALd.2215$dB4.1289@trnddc06...
> ... or a simple url... ;-)
> http://www.google.com/search?q=concrete+canoe
>
> -- Mark
>
> Joe wrote:
> > Argh... That was supposed to simply say:
> >
> > "Try 'concrete canue' as the quotes help"
>
>

AB

Andrew Barss

in reply to "buck" on 30/01/2005 11:39 PM

03/02/2005 6:13 AM

buck <[email protected]> wrote:
: Do they make any kind of "concrete type" material that gets hard like
: concrete but does not weight as much like a composite or plastic or
: something. Weird question I know, but I have my reasons. Looking to fill
: up a 3' long 8" tube form with dense solid material like concrete, but don't
: want all of the weight of concrete, but still has to be a strong solid.

Poke around forums on vacuum veneering, like

http://www.vacupress.com


You'll find info on dense foam products that are both lightweight and
strong eoungh to withstand a lot of compression.


-- Andy Barss

CS

"Charles Spitzer"

in reply to "buck" on 30/01/2005 11:39 PM

03/02/2005 1:28 PM


"Charles Krug" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 02 Feb 2005 17:13:29 -0800, Larry Jaques <novalidaddress@di>
> wrote:
>> On Wed, 2 Feb 2005 01:32:00 -0500, the inscrutable "Joe"
>><[email protected]> spake:
>>
>>>> Not too many people spell it that way so it's unique. The only
>>>> difference is that I -intended- to do that. ;)
>>>
>>>Sure... rub it in. :)
>>
>> Ah, you betcha. ;)
>>
>
> Had a guy in our hometown who spent 10+ years building a boat out of
> concrete and steel, poured in place.
>
> All that's necessary for it to float is that it displace enough water,
> and as most of the volume is air (think about it) it wasn't that tall an
> order, much as my 7yo self had trouble believing it.

concrete boats have been around for a long time. they work well, until the
internal metal support starts to rust.

bn

"buck"

in reply to "buck" on 30/01/2005 11:39 PM

31/01/2005 11:11 AM

Lee.... will check it out..... Thanks


"Lee Michaels" <leemichaels*nadaspam*@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "buck" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Do they make any kind of "concrete type" material that gets hard like
> > concrete but does not weight as much like a composite or plastic or
> > something. Weird question I know, but I have my reasons. Looking to
fill
> > up a 3' long 8" tube form with dense solid material like concrete, but
> > don't
> > want all of the weight of concrete, but still has to be a strong solid.
> > -TIA
> >
> >
> Just a suggestion.
>
> I would look into the kind of concrete used in pouring the chimneys. It
is
> a lightweight concrete that uses some kind of insulating, lightweight
> aggregrate. (pearllite?) They pour it into old chimneys to make them fire
> proof and stronger.
>
> I don't know anything about it. Just saw it on TOH.
>
>
>

ON

Old Nick

in reply to "buck" on 30/01/2005 11:39 PM

03/02/2005 11:41 AM

On Tue, 1 Feb 2005 18:25:02 -0500, "Joe"
<[email protected]> vaguely proposed a theory
......and in reply I say!:

remove ns from my header address to reply via email

>> "Concrete canoe" will probably work even better, Joe. ;)
>
>
>"Koncrete Kanue" is what I had in mind to type... :)
>

But that's only for Kunadiuns and people from Canvas Sity....

MJ

"Mark Jerde"

in reply to "buck" on 30/01/2005 11:39 PM

01/02/2005 12:03 AM

buck wrote:
> Do they make any kind of "concrete type" material that gets hard like
> concrete but does not weight as much like a composite or plastic or
> something. Weird question I know, but I have my reasons.

Google for
concrete canoe

One of the contests the engineering students had when I was in college
('77-'82) was building a canoe out of concrete. I saw one that wasn't
successful -- concrete with small styrofoam balls as the filler. Other
designs were more successful. Over 200,000 google hits. Good luck. ;-)

-- Mark

Lr

"Leon"

in reply to "buck" on 30/01/2005 11:39 PM

31/01/2005 3:11 PM


"buck" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Do they make any kind of "concrete type" material that gets hard like
> concrete but does not weight as much like a composite or plastic or
> something. Weird question I know, but I have my reasons. Looking to fill
> up a 3' long 8" tube form with dense solid material like concrete, but
> don't
> want all of the weight of concrete, but still has to be a strong solid.
> -TIA

Yes there and it is commonly found at Home Depot or Lowe's. IIRC Sackrete
makes Maxamizer. While still heavy typically 3, 80-90 lb. bags will cover
the same area of 5 regular 80-90 lb. bags.

LJ

Larry Jaques

in reply to "buck" on 30/01/2005 11:39 PM

01/02/2005 6:20 AM

On Mon, 31 Jan 2005 19:08:15 -0500, the inscrutable "Joe"
<[email protected]> spake:

>Argh... That was supposed to simply say:
>
>"Try 'concrete canue' as the quotes help"

"Concrete canoe" will probably work even better, Joe. ;)


---------------------------------------------------------------
Never put off 'til tomorrow | http://www.diversify.com
what you can avoid altogether. | Dynamic Website Applications
---------------------------------------------------------------

ON

Old Nick

in reply to "buck" on 30/01/2005 11:39 PM

03/02/2005 11:44 AM

On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 23:39:55 -0700, "buck" <[email protected]>
vaguely proposed a theory
......and in reply I say!:

remove ns from my header address to reply via email

As Thomnas has sadi, are you sure it needs to be solid?

ALso, depends on your level of desire and skill, bu a combination of
styrofoam and glass strand impregnation would make the concrete both
stronger (thinner) and lighter. Styro balls will weaken the concrete.
The lighter you get, the more balls you need....... to trust it! Ark
ark boom boom........

>Do they make any kind of "concrete type" material that gets hard like
>concrete but does not weight as much like a composite or plastic or
>something. Weird question I know, but I have my reasons. Looking to fill
>up a 3' long 8" tube form with dense solid material like concrete, but don't
>want all of the weight of concrete, but still has to be a strong solid.
>-TIA
>

gG

in reply to Old Nick on 03/02/2005 11:44 AM

03/02/2005 5:12 AM

Actually Ytong concrete will float. It was going to be the miracle building
material but US building inspectors seemed to hate it. Might make a boat

CK

Charles Krug

in reply to "buck" on 30/01/2005 11:39 PM

03/02/2005 6:11 PM

On Wed, 02 Feb 2005 17:13:29 -0800, Larry Jaques <novalidaddress@di>
wrote:
> On Wed, 2 Feb 2005 01:32:00 -0500, the inscrutable "Joe"
><[email protected]> spake:
>
>>> Not too many people spell it that way so it's unique. The only
>>> difference is that I -intended- to do that. ;)
>>
>>Sure... rub it in. :)
>
> Ah, you betcha. ;)
>

Had a guy in our hometown who spent 10+ years building a boat out of
concrete and steel, poured in place.

All that's necessary for it to float is that it displace enough water,
and as most of the volume is air (think about it) it wasn't that tall an
order, much as my 7yo self had trouble believing it.


You’ve reached the end of replies