I emailed this to their customer service dept.
---------------------------------------------------------
The week of Christmas 2003 I ordered the following on
separate days:
G0500 8" x 75" Jointer with 4 Blade Cutterhead
G1029 2 H.P. Dust Collector
G1023SLX 10" Left Tilting Saw with 7' Rails and
Extension Table
All three had problems and needed the following:
G1029: Box was damaged and needed a replacement of the base plate
This caused a delay in building the unit and using it.
G1023SLX: Boxes were damaged and needed a replacement of the extension table
and I had to go to Lowes and buy more bolts to put the thing together.
This caused a delay in building the unit and using it.
G0500: Ordered it, the shipping company lost it and I had to have a
replacement shipped. Box & crate were damaged. The extension to the in
feed and out feed
were bad casts, had new ones shipped to me, the in feed of that replacement
is bad and now I have to wait weeks for a replacement. The blades were dull
and I
now I have to wait weeks for those as well. This is still causing a delay
in building the unit and using it.
Three orders and all three with problems. I don't know about you, but I
would call that pretty piss poor shipping and quality control.
Now $2200 is a huge purchase for me and the next time I buy any woodworking
machinery, I'll shop Delta or Jet. I've never had issues with them! Also,
I've
turned several people on to you and your company, not anymore. Now when
people ask what I think of Grizzly, I'll have this story to share!
On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 14:23:10 -0500, "Just Dave" <[email protected]>
brought forth from the murky depths:
>I emailed this to their customer service dept.
>---------------------------------------------------------
>The week of Christmas 2003 I ordered the following on
>separate days:
>
>G0500 8" x 75" Jointer with 4 Blade Cutterhead
>G1029 2 H.P. Dust Collector
>G1023SLX 10" Left Tilting Saw with 7' Rails and
>Extension Table
>
>All three had problems and needed the following:
What are you busting Grizzly's chops for? MOST of your
problems were from the trucking company, NOT Grizzly.
I understanding letting them know, but your gripe really
should be with the shipper.
I've received several shipments from Grizzly (via Oak Harbor
Freight and FedEX Motor Freight) and have never had a single
problem with either the machinery or the trucking.
>G0500: Ordered it, the shipping company lost it and I had to have a
>replacement shipped. Box & crate were damaged. The extension to the in
>feed and out feed were bad casts, had new ones shipped to me, the in
>feed of that replacement is bad and now I have to wait weeks for a
OK, half of that problem is Grizzly's alone. Suckage!
>Now $2200 is a huge purchase for me and the next time I buy any woodworking
>machinery, I'll shop Delta or Jet. I've never had issues with them!
You most assuredly will the next time you buy from them.
I've heard almost as many gripes about new Delta stuff here
than I have for Harbor Freight's machinery. Check the Wreck
for the past 2 years or so since the Delta buyout/restructuring
and you'll see what I mean. And Jet seems to get the gripes
for the past year or so.
--== May The Angst Be With You! ==--
-Yoda, on a bad day
--
http://diversify.com Ending Your Web Page Angst.
All shipping forms were marked as damaged and the reason I'm busting
Grizzly's chops -vs- the freight is because (outside of the dust collector -
1 box) all the damaged parts were in perfect boxes.
The table saw came in 5 boxes. The extension table was in a great looking
box and damaged prior to backing. It was also missing bolts and had to hit
lowes for parts.
The jointer had poor casts for the extra 5 in. infeed and outfeed table and
the replacment infeed was bad as well. The knifes were dull and the inside
bolt holes were not taped. This comes from poor quality control not a
freight company!
Point is, purchased 3 machines a month ago and I still don't have all the
parts to make them run. Shipper or no, the blame falls on Grizzly cause
they pick the shipper not me, I just get to pay for them.
I had both damaged and undamaged boxes.
Dust Collector - 1 Box - Damaged - Freight's Fault
Jointer - 1 box - Damaged, 1 Crate - Not Damaged - Grizzly's fault, (damaged
items were from the casts not damaged boxes)
Table Saw - 5 boxes - 3 damaged, 2 Not Damaged
Grizzly's fault, (actually ShopFox's fault putting a damaged item into a
perfect box!)
Yeah the shipping is cheap and it's not like a didn't expect mishaps with
shipping, but I have hours of long distance charges to get replacements for
damaged (from Grizzly not the freight) items, have to get a tap to fix the
jointer and wait weeks for back ordered replacements for dull blades and bad
casts.
That to me seems a little much.
"Rick Chamberlain" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, UnisawA100
> @wi.rr.com says...
> > Rick Chamberlain wrote:
> > >Yeah, one example of where low bidder may not be in the best interests
> > >of the buyer.
> >
> > Actually, seldom does the low bidder have the best interest
> > of the buyer included in the bid.
>
> Good point. Unfortunately, too often the bid system doesn't take into
> account other factors, such as competence, longevity, and commitment.
> Unless you're in road construction... :-)
I wish that was a consideration in road construction here in PA.
>
> > >I wonder where he'd be if he woulda bought some vintage Delta or PM
> > >goodies. Prolly making sawdust right about now...
> >
> > Or, maybe, just maybe, he'd be like the rest of us and
> > having to tweak, tune, restore and re-build the machine
> > which isn't for everyone but does guarantee you Master of
> > Your Domain and isn't something that's mentioned as being a
> > requirement in the Grizzly catalog.
> >
>
> I suppose so, but I've yet to see any machine that didn't require at
> least one tweak - no matter what the dealer did to it before or after
> delivery to your house. Maybe it's me - I just assume everything is out
> of whack and go to adjusting immediately. :-)
> --
> Regards,
>
> Rick
>
> (Remove the HIGH SPOTS for e-mail)
AMEN!
"Unisaw A100" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Rick Chamberlain wrote:
> >Yahhbut Keeter, you forgot one key item - Grizzly arranges the freight
> >at substantially reduced rates. They have a disclaimer on their site
> >that explains the relationship.
>
> Ahhhh! Sorry, I've not spent a whole hellava lot of time
> hanging with the Griz.
>
> This begs a question that's for sure to send this thread
> into the OT stratosphere (it is about that time, ain't it?).
> We send out to bid every year (or so) the contracts for
> hauling our children to and fro (back and forth Dave) to
> school and we award the contract to the..., low bidder. I
> wonder when there will be a disclaimer similar to Grizzly's
> posted on the doors of every school (that's skool for anyone
> from Alabama) bus door?
>
> >From what I've heard, they seem to be quite responsive to customer
> >service issues.
>
> I know you're not playing apologist for Grizzly but you
> gotta hand it to the original poster for what he had to put
> up with.
>
> Now, I wonder, if he were to calculate his time spent
> dealing with this fiasco, I wonder where he'd be savings
> wise.
>
> UA100
> I might add that when I picked up my bandsaw from their showroom I
> didn't notice that the package was missing the drive pulleys and all
> the nuts and bolts necessary for assembly. It took about three months
> to get them from Grizzly as they would not pull them out of another
> box to ship them to me. They had to order them from overseas.
This is what I'm dealing with, a month later and I just have parts laying in
the garage instead of a jointer.
I realized and fully counted on a bolt or two missing or a scratch in the
paint and even a damaged part but hell with all I've gone through......I
just think it's a big nuts!
Although I have purchased several thousand dollars worth of equipment from
Grizzly, it's not a company that I would buy 'sight unseen' from. I am
'only' 350 miles down I5 from the Bellingham Grizzly store and have visited
twice, both times buying enough to fill the back of my pickup.
I am happy with the radial arm drillpress, floor model spindle sander and
combination sander. All are accurate, dependable tools.
Their packaging is shoddy, the drillpress, which I picked up at the outlet
store, had broken free from the crate and was all over the warehouse. It was
the only one in stock at the time. Grizzly's parts man assured me that all
the parts were there and they repackaged it for me, sending me on my way. As
it turned out, it was all there and in good working order!
They buy their machinery from many different sources and therefore have wide
degrees of quality and quality control.
"Just Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> I emailed this to their customer service dept.
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> The week of Christmas 2003 I ordered the following on
> separate days:
>
> G0500 8" x 75" Jointer with 4 Blade Cutterhead
> G1029 2 H.P. Dust Collector
> G1023SLX 10" Left Tilting Saw with 7' Rails and
> Extension Table
>
> All three had problems and needed the following:
>
> G1029: Box was damaged and needed a replacement of the base plate
> This caused a delay in building the unit and using it.
>
> G1023SLX: Boxes were damaged and needed a replacement of the extension table
> and I had to go to Lowes and buy more bolts to put the thing together.
> This caused a delay in building the unit and using it.
>
> G0500: Ordered it, the shipping company lost it and I had to have a
> replacement shipped. Box & crate were damaged. The extension to the in
> feed and out feed
> were bad casts, had new ones shipped to me, the in feed of that replacement
> is bad and now I have to wait weeks for a replacement. The blades were dull
> and I
> now I have to wait weeks for those as well. This is still causing a delay
> in building the unit and using it.
>
> Three orders and all three with problems. I don't know about you, but I
> would call that pretty piss poor shipping and quality control.
>
> Now $2200 is a huge purchase for me and the next time I buy any woodworking
> machinery, I'll shop Delta or Jet. I've never had issues with them! Also,
> I've
> turned several people on to you and your company, not anymore. Now when
> people ask what I think of Grizzly, I'll have this story to share!
Just Dave wrote:
> I emailed this to their customer service dept.
<snipped>
> Three orders and all three with problems. I don't know about you, but I
> would call that pretty piss poor shipping and quality control.
From Grizzly's web site:
"What is F.O.B.?
F.O.B. stands for "Free On Board" and
is usually applied to items that are too
heavy to ship via UPS. "Free On Board"
means that we are responsible for putting
the freight on the truck.
It looks like you complaint should be directed to the trucking company.
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
(Remove "SPAM" from email address to reply)
Unisaw A100 wrote:
> Nova wrote:
> >It looks like you complaint should be directed to the trucking company.
>
> That would be so if the buyer selected the freight
> company and paid that bill direct to them but if I'm
> not mistaken the buyer's contract was with Griz-a-lee
> and Griz-a-lee alone.
>
> UA100
There are two types of "FOB", "Origin" and "Destination". They are defined
as follows as extracted from Roadway Express's web site (
http://www.roadway.com/shippers/glossary.html ):
F.O.B Origin - F.O.B. Origin means that title and risk pass to the buyer
at the moment of the seller's delivery to the carrier. The parties may agree
to have title and risk pass at a different time or to allocate freight
charges by a written agreement.
F.O.B. Destination - F.O.B. Destination changes the location where title
and risk pass. Under this arrangement, title and risk remain with the
seller until they have delivered the freight to the delivery location
specified in the contract.
By the wording on Grizzly's web site, "we are responsible for putting the
freight on the truck", I'd say they're shipping "F.O.B Origin".
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
(Remove "SPAM" from email address to reply)
Larry Jaques wrote:
<snipped>
> You can pick your own shipper, but expect to pay 3 to 4 times
> what Griz charges for freight.
Unless things have changed you can't select your own shipper with Grizzly. I
tried that a number of years ago when I was about to purchase a bandsaw.
My brother-in-law was the manager for a trucking outfit that made daily runs
through Williamsburg, PA. He was willing to have a driver swing by and put the
saw on a truck headed to Buffalo. Grizzly wouldn't allow the truck at their
dock. Grizzly's reason was they have exclusive contracts with the shippers that
they use to obtain the shipping prices they offer. They said allowing an
independent trucking company at their dock would jeopardize those contracts.
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
(Remove "SPAM" from email address to reply)
Unisaw A100 wrote:
> So you're thinking that I'd have to arrange my own trucking?
I tried that route and Grizzly wouldn't allow it. See my earlier response to
Larry's post.
I ended up driving down to Williamsport, PA and picking the saw up myself.
> I'm thinking maybe the Web page was written by the same
> putz that's doing Woodcraft's catalog copy or this is a way
> to side step some liability?
They're not very clear, but when they're shipping a 500 pound piece of
equipment for under $50, if the item is damaged in shipping, I'm guess'n they
figure it's up to the buyer to file the claim against the shipper.
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
(Remove "SPAM" from email address to reply)
Unisaw A100 wrote:
> OK, if I have this straight this is the way it lays out.
>
> I pay money to Grizzly for the freight, yes?
No really. Here's a quote from Grizzly's web page:
"Since Grizzly does business with several freight companies in great
volume, we negotiate substantial discounts that the average, one
time customer cannot receive. In order for you to receive these
discounted freight rates from Grizzly, we must charge for the freight
up front and your order is shipped to you prepaid."
Grizzly is acting as an agent on the customer's behalf. The charges
are collected by Grizzly and passed on to the shipper.
> Grizzly arranges freight, yes?
Yes, to get volume discounted lower rates, hoping to entice more
sales.
> Grizzly loads the item onto the truck, yes?
Yep, and that's technically the end of their responsibility.
Under certain conditions Grizzly will sometimes take things one step
further. If something is damaged and that damage is noted on the form
the driver gives the receiver to sign to accept delivery, Grizzly
"will make a claim for the shipping damage on the customer's behalf."
(See entry "Shipping Damage" at
http://www.grizzly.com/catalog/2004/515.cfm?&site=grizzly )
> If the three answers were yes and add up to yes then the
> letter needed to go to Grizzly.
>
> As for the freight claim, if it's Grizzly's policy to have
> the consignee file it then so be it but the letter still
> needed to go to Grizzly. It should have been addressed to,
> "The Pant Load In Charge Of Losing Business".
It seems that if the damage is noted on the signed shipping form
Grizzly will pursue the case. If it wasn't noted, from their
literature it appears the customer is SOL.
I might add that when I picked up my bandsaw from their showroom I
didn't notice that the package was missing the drive pulleys and all
the nuts and bolts necessary for assembly. It took about three months
to get them from Grizzly as they would not pull them out of another
box to ship them to me. They had to order them from overseas.
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
(Remove "SPAM" from email address to reply)
With the competition today companies are trying all to cut costs.
Packaging is one of them. Imagine a table saw being shipped in the
50's. The box would probably be wood not cardboard. One of the worst
things for transport is weight. WW tools have all one thing in common
they are very heavy. Even with the technology that we have today, WW
tools are still heavy and will continue to be.
So that's why I like to pick any large tool that I'm putting money
into. If the box looks like its been through hell, well I want to see
the contents or at least I want the next one if possible.
Daniel
"Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<BgtPb.59827$0%[email protected]>...
> "Larry Jaques" <novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote in message
>
> > What are you busting Grizzly's chops for? MOST of your
> > problems were from the trucking company, NOT Grizzly.
> > I understanding letting them know, but your gripe really
> > should be with the shipper.
> >
>
> Tough call. Yes, the trucking company has a lot of responsibility for the
> obviously rough handling, but Grizzly has anobligation to package everything
> is a manner to prevent damage under MOST conditions. Every shipper knows
> freight can be handled roughly at times. The National Safe Transit
> Authority sets standards for what may be encountered and has tests for
> packaging.
>
> We really need to know more and to examine the package before making a
> decision.
>
> NOTE:
> The carrier should be involved and the receiving slip should have been
> signed noting damaged containers. That makes collecting easier when damage
> is found later.
> Ed
> [email protected]
> http://pages.cthome.net/edhome
On Thu, 22 Jan 2004 02:26:07 GMT, Nova <[email protected]>
brought forth from the murky depths:
>Unisaw A100 wrote:
>
>> So you're thinking that I'd have to arrange my own trucking?
>
>I tried that route and Grizzly wouldn't allow it. See my earlier response to
>Larry's post.
I thought he meant that he wanted to suggest the trucking firm
to Griz at their discount shipping fees. I didn't know that they
excluded other trucks from picking up at their docks. Suckage!
----------------------------------------------------------------
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She may seem a little flighty, || Full Service Websites
but she wears a green gauze nighty, || PHP Applications
And she's good enough for me." || SQL Database Development
Unisaw A100 <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Rick Chamberlain wrote:
> >Yahhbut Keeter, you forgot one key item - Grizzly arranges the freight
> >at substantially reduced rates. They have a disclaimer on their site
> >that explains the relationship.
>
> Ahhhh! Sorry, I've not spent a whole hellava lot of time
> hanging with the Griz.
>
> This begs a question that's for sure to send this thread
> into the OT stratosphere (it is about that time, ain't it?).
> We send out to bid every year (or so) the contracts for
> hauling our children to and fro (back and forth Dave) to
> school and we award the contract to the..., low bidder. I
> wonder when there will be a disclaimer similar to Grizzly's
> posted on the doors of every school (that's skool for anyone
> from Alabama) bus door?
I would assume the bid specs were a little tighter than " hey we need
someone to drive some buses, please send us a bid." I assume that
there were some pretty tight specs for vehicles, maintenance, driver
training, driver background checks, maintaining schedules, etc. In
fact, I develop these specs for my school district, review the bids
and make the recommendation for which service to award the contract.
It in fact is not "lowest bid", but "lowest responsible bid" as
required by law. You also do not simply award the contract and then
ignore the contractor, you monitor the service, the vehicles, review
maintenence, obtain (directly from the state police) the driver
background checks, listen to and respond to all mommy complaints,
keeping in mind that your bosses are directly elected by those
mommies.
Dave Hall
Please note that I am not attempting to flame you, I appreciate the
crap you've gone through, and I'm sure we all can relate. However, as
a frequent corporate letter writer, and freebie getter, I have a
decent experience in writing effective complaint letters to companies
so I thought I might offer some suggestions.
Your letter is likely to wind up in the trash. Here's what I've
learned about writing to companies.
1. Never email. It is way too easy to hit delete.
2. Never negotiate with underlings. Write the CEO personally and copy
the relavant department. Hand-address the envelope and type the
letter. Find out the CEO's name using either Annual reports or other
means, address the envelope to that person. There is nothing a busy
executive hates more than having to waste thier time dealing with
pissed off customers. There is nothing more managers hate than dealing
with pissed off bosses. Remember, crap rolls downhill.
3. Don't write with a problem, write with an answer. Don't purely
bitch. You must quickly point out that you are trying to help the CEO
improve thier business and not lose more customers. Suggest a
solution. Telling them that they have already lost a customer makes it
a moot point. However, telling them that they MIGHT lose a customer is
a great way to get discounts, rebates, or a plain-old check. Don't be
afraid to offer a suggestion. For example, "To restore my faith in
your shipping, I suggest that my next 3 orders should ship for free."
4. If they really have lost a customer, write the competition and copy
the company. The competition can use the testimonial letter. This also
has the potential to make the company want to win you back.
5. For really bad things, copy everyone. For an airline complaint, I
once wrote the CEO, copied the VP of customer relations, the airport,
the FAA, the FTC, and the local TV station's "Consumer watchdog". For
a car repair shop, I once copied the competition so they would have a
testimonial letter. I got a free ticket and a free oil change,
respectively ;).
6. Be just as loose with praise. If I get good customer service, I
send letters as well, although I do not send them as high up the food
chain.
These are all just suggestions of course. Sometime it is just plain
therapeutic to write a bitch letter.
jay
replace junk with jay to reply.
"Larry Jaques" <novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote in message
> What are you busting Grizzly's chops for? MOST of your
> problems were from the trucking company, NOT Grizzly.
> I understanding letting them know, but your gripe really
> should be with the shipper.
>
Tough call. Yes, the trucking company has a lot of responsibility for the
obviously rough handling, but Grizzly has anobligation to package everything
is a manner to prevent damage under MOST conditions. Every shipper knows
freight can be handled roughly at times. The National Safe Transit
Authority sets standards for what may be encountered and has tests for
packaging.
We really need to know more and to examine the package before making a
decision.
NOTE:
The carrier should be involved and the receiving slip should have been
signed noting damaged containers. That makes collecting easier when damage
is found later.
Ed
[email protected]
http://pages.cthome.net/edhome
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
says...
> All shipping forms were marked as damaged and the reason I'm busting
> Grizzly's chops -vs- the freight is because (outside of the dust collector -
> 1 box) all the damaged parts were in perfect boxes.
>
> The table saw came in 5 boxes. The extension table was in a great looking
> box and damaged prior to backing. It was also missing bolts and had to hit
> lowes for parts.
>
> The jointer had poor casts for the extra 5 in. infeed and outfeed table and
> the replacment infeed was bad as well. The knifes were dull and the inside
> bolt holes were not taped. This comes from poor quality control not a
> freight company!
>
> Point is, purchased 3 machines a month ago and I still don't have all the
> parts to make them run. Shipper or no, the blame falls on Grizzly cause
> they pick the shipper not me, I just get to pay for them.
Your original post said otherwise - that the boxes were damaged. Did
you misspeak the fist time or the second?
As for picking the shipper - you are correct that you have no choice in
the matter. I would venture to say that there is no way you could get
rates as low as what Grizzly charges, even with Freightquote.
If the boxes weren't damaged, then you have a beef with Griz. If they
were, talk to the shipper.
--
Regards,
Rick
(Remove the HIGH SPOTS for e-mail)
In article <[email protected]>, UnisawA100
@wi.rr.com says...
> Nova wrote:
> mucho snippage...
>
> OK, if I have this straight this is the way it lays out.
>
> I pay money to Grizzly for the freight, yes?
>
> Grizzly arranges freight, yes?
>
> Grizzly loads the item onto the truck, yes?
>
> If the three answers were yes and add up to yes then the
> letter needed to go to Grizzly.
>
> As for the freight claim, if it's Grizzly's policy to have
> the consignee file it then so be it but the letter still
> needed to go to Grizzly. It should have been addressed to,
> "The Pant Load In Charge Of Losing Business".
>
> UA100
>
Yahhbut Keeter, you forgot one key item - Grizzly arranges the freight
at substantially reduced rates. They have a disclaimer on their site
that explains the relationship.
Both Griz and the trucking company needs to be involved, since Just Dave
clarified his original post and said there were parts damaged that were
not related to the crating damage. From what I've heard, they seem to
be quite responsive to customer service issues.
--
Regards,
Rick
(Remove the HIGH SPOTS for e-mail)
In article <[email protected]>, UnisawA100
@wi.rr.com says...
> Rick Chamberlain wrote:
> >Yahhbut Keeter, you forgot one key item - Grizzly arranges the freight
> >at substantially reduced rates. They have a disclaimer on their site
> >that explains the relationship.
>
> Ahhhh! Sorry, I've not spent a whole hellava lot of time
> hanging with the Griz.
Me neither - my only purchase from them so far has been a dust collector
and some clamps. The box was damaged, but the goods were good.
> This begs a question that's for sure to send this thread
> into the OT stratosphere (it is about that time, ain't it?).
> We send out to bid every year (or so) the contracts for
> hauling our children to and fro (back and forth Dave) to
> school and we award the contract to the..., low bidder. I
> wonder when there will be a disclaimer similar to Grizzly's
> posted on the doors of every school (that's skool for anyone
> from Alabama) bus door?
Yeah, one example of where low bidder may not be in the best interests
of the buyer.
> >From what I've heard, they seem to be quite responsive to customer
> >service issues.
>
> I know you're not playing apologist for Grizzly but you
> gotta hand it to the original poster for what he had to put
> up with.
>
> Now, I wonder, if he were to calculate his time spent
> dealing with this fiasco, I wonder where he'd be savings
> wise.
I wonder where he'd be if he woulda bought some vintage Delta or PM
goodies. Prolly making sawdust right about now...
--
Regards,
Rick
(Remove the HIGH SPOTS for e-mail)
In article <[email protected]>, UnisawA100
@wi.rr.com says...
> Rick Chamberlain wrote:
> >Yeah, one example of where low bidder may not be in the best interests
> >of the buyer.
>
> Actually, seldom does the low bidder have the best interest
> of the buyer included in the bid.
Good point. Unfortunately, too often the bid system doesn't take into
account other factors, such as competence, longevity, and commitment.
Unless you're in road construction... :-)
> >I wonder where he'd be if he woulda bought some vintage Delta or PM
> >goodies. Prolly making sawdust right about now...
>
> Or, maybe, just maybe, he'd be like the rest of us and
> having to tweak, tune, restore and re-build the machine
> which isn't for everyone but does guarantee you Master of
> Your Domain and isn't something that's mentioned as being a
> requirement in the Grizzly catalog.
>
I suppose so, but I've yet to see any machine that didn't require at
least one tweak - no matter what the dealer did to it before or after
delivery to your house. Maybe it's me - I just assume everything is out
of whack and go to adjusting immediately. :-)
--
Regards,
Rick
(Remove the HIGH SPOTS for e-mail)
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
> "Rick Chamberlain" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> > In article <[email protected]>, UnisawA100
> > @wi.rr.com says...
> > > Rick Chamberlain wrote:
> > > >Yeah, one example of where low bidder may not be in the best interests
> > > >of the buyer.
> > >
> > > Actually, seldom does the low bidder have the best interest
> > > of the buyer included in the bid.
> >
> > Good point. Unfortunately, too often the bid system doesn't take into
> > account other factors, such as competence, longevity, and commitment.
> > Unless you're in road construction... :-)
>
> I wish that was a consideration in road construction here in PA.
Hence the smiley face Al. Here in WI, we have 5 big road construction
firms being investigated (probably charged by now) for fraud by fixing
bids on state contracts.
Just goes to show that just about any system can be corrupted, given the
right environment...
--
Regards,
Rick
(Remove the HIGH SPOTS for e-mail)
On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 14:23:10 -0500, "Just Dave" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Now $2200 is a huge purchase for me and the next time I buy any woodworking
>machinery, I'll shop Delta or Jet. I've never had issues with them! Also,
Just curious as to why, after having no issues with Delta or Jet, you
decided to go Grizzly???
TomL
Nova <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Just Dave wrote:
>
> > I emailed this to their customer service dept.
>
> <snipped>
>
> > Three orders and all three with problems. I don't know about you, but I
> > would call that pretty piss poor shipping and quality control.
>
> From Grizzly's web site:
>
> "What is F.O.B.?
> F.O.B. stands for "Free On Board" and
> is usually applied to items that are too
> heavy to ship via UPS. "Free On Board"
> means that we are responsible for putting
> the freight on the truck.
>
> It looks like you complaint should be directed to the trucking company.
FOB means freight on board. If it is for example FOB Bellingham Wa.,
this means that the customer pays the shipping charges form Bellingham
Wa. If the shipping terms are FOB destination, this means the freight
is prepaid by the seller. FOB point just establishes who pays the
freight charges. UPS really doesn't enter the picture. If the item
comes by UPS and the customer pays the shipping, it is still FOB
Bellingham in the case of Grizzly.
Gene
Rick Chamberlain wrote:
>Yahhbut Keeter, you forgot one key item - Grizzly arranges the freight
>at substantially reduced rates. They have a disclaimer on their site
>that explains the relationship.
Ahhhh! Sorry, I've not spent a whole hellava lot of time
hanging with the Griz.
This begs a question that's for sure to send this thread
into the OT stratosphere (it is about that time, ain't it?).
We send out to bid every year (or so) the contracts for
hauling our children to and fro (back and forth Dave) to
school and we award the contract to the..., low bidder. I
wonder when there will be a disclaimer similar to Grizzly's
posted on the doors of every school (that's skool for anyone
from Alabama) bus door?
>From what I've heard, they seem to be quite responsive to customer
>service issues.
I know you're not playing apologist for Grizzly but you
gotta hand it to the original poster for what he had to put
up with.
Now, I wonder, if he were to calculate his time spent
dealing with this fiasco, I wonder where he'd be savings
wise.
UA100
Nova wrote:
>By the wording on Grizzly's web site, "we are responsible for putting the
>freight on the truck", I'd say they're shipping "F.O.B Origin".
So you're thinking that I'd have to arrange my own trucking?
I'm thinking maybe the Web page was written by the same
putz that's doing Woodcraft's catalog copy or this is a way
to side step some liability?
UA100
"Just Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> I emailed this to their customer service dept.
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> The week of Christmas 2003 I ordered the following on
> separate days:
>
> G0500 8" x 75" Jointer with 4 Blade Cutterhead
> G1029 2 H.P. Dust Collector
> G1023SLX 10" Left Tilting Saw with 7' Rails and
> Extension Table
>
> All three had problems and needed the following:
>
> G1029: Box was damaged and needed a replacement of the base plate
> This caused a delay in building the unit and using it.
>
> G1023SLX: Boxes were damaged and needed a replacement of the extension table
> and I had to go to Lowes and buy more bolts to put the thing together.
> This caused a delay in building the unit and using it.
>
> G0500: Ordered it, the shipping company lost it and I had to have a
> replacement shipped. Box & crate were damaged. The extension to the in
> feed and out feed
> were bad casts, had new ones shipped to me, the in feed of that replacement
> is bad and now I have to wait weeks for a replacement. The blades were dull
> and I
> now I have to wait weeks for those as well. This is still causing a delay
> in building the unit and using it.
>
> Three orders and all three with problems. I don't know about you, but I
> would call that pretty piss poor shipping and quality control.
>
> Now $2200 is a huge purchase for me and the next time I buy any woodworking
> machinery, I'll shop Delta or Jet. I've never had issues with them! Also,
> I've
> turned several people on to you and your company, not anymore. Now when
> people ask what I think of Grizzly, I'll have this story to share!
Have to agree with the others - shipping company is to blame. If you
chose not to shop with them anymore because of their choice of
SHIPPING companies then you have a beef, but only the jointer seemed
to be defective. However I have to agree that if I were in your
situation I might be hesitent to order from them again.
On the other hand, it seems that their customer service is pretty
good. They got the replacement parts out to your fairly quickly with
no hassels, right?
-Chris
Nova wrote:
mucho snippage...
OK, if I have this straight this is the way it lays out.
I pay money to Grizzly for the freight, yes?
Grizzly arranges freight, yes?
Grizzly loads the item onto the truck, yes?
If the three answers were yes and add up to yes then the
letter needed to go to Grizzly.
As for the freight claim, if it's Grizzly's policy to have
the consignee file it then so be it but the letter still
needed to go to Grizzly. It should have been addressed to,
"The Pant Load In Charge Of Losing Business".
UA100
On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 14:23:10 -0500, Just Dave wrote:
> I emailed this to their customer service dept.
> --------------------------------------------------------- The week of
> Christmas 2003 I ordered the following on separate days:
>
> G0500 8" x 75" Jointer with 4 Blade Cutterhead G1029 2 H.P. Dust Collector
> G1023SLX 10" Left Tilting Saw with 7' Rails and Extension Table
>
> All three had problems and needed the following:
>
> G1029: Box was damaged and needed a replacement of the base plate This
> caused a delay in building the unit and using it.
>
> G1023SLX: Boxes were damaged and needed a replacement of the extension
> table and I had to go to Lowes and buy more bolts to put the thing
> together. This caused a delay in building the unit and using it.
>
> G0500: Ordered it, the shipping company lost it and I had to have a
> replacement shipped. Box & crate were damaged. The extension to the in
> feed and out feed
> were bad casts, had new ones shipped to me, the in feed of that
> replacement is bad and now I have to wait weeks for a replacement. The
> blades were dull and I
> now I have to wait weeks for those as well. This is still causing a delay
> in building the unit and using it.
>
> Three orders and all three with problems. I don't know about you, but I
> would call that pretty piss poor shipping and quality control.
>
> Now $2200 is a huge purchase for me and the next time I buy any
> woodworking machinery, I'll shop Delta or Jet. I've never had issues with
> them! Also, I've
> turned several people on to you and your company, not anymore. Now when
> people ask what I think of Grizzly, I'll have this story to share!
Did you try calling and talking to a customer service rep?
Rick Chamberlain wrote:
>Yeah, one example of where low bidder may not be in the best interests
>of the buyer.
Actually, seldom does the low bidder have the best interest
of the buyer included in the bid.
>I wonder where he'd be if he woulda bought some vintage Delta or PM
>goodies. Prolly making sawdust right about now...
Or, maybe, just maybe, he'd be like the rest of us and
having to tweak, tune, restore and re-build the machine
which isn't for everyone but does guarantee you Master of
Your Domain and isn't something that's mentioned as being a
requirement in the Grizzly catalog.
UA100
On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 08:44:27 -0500, "Just Dave" <[email protected]>
brought forth from the murky depths:
>All shipping forms were marked as damaged and the reason I'm busting
>Grizzly's chops -vs- the freight is because (outside of the dust collector -
>1 box) all the damaged parts were in perfect boxes.
>
>The table saw came in 5 boxes. The extension table was in a great looking
>box and damaged prior to backing. It was also missing bolts and had to hit
>lowes for parts.
You should have put more of these details in your first post.
The way it was originally worded, the damage appeared to be
from the shipper, not Griz, so your credibility took a hit.
>The jointer had poor casts for the extra 5 in. infeed and outfeed table and
>the replacment infeed was bad as well. The knifes were dull and the inside
>bolt holes were not taped. This comes from poor quality control not a
>freight company!
Granted. And there's no excuse for that, so shame on Griz.
>Point is, purchased 3 machines a month ago and I still don't have all the
>parts to make them run. Shipper or no, the blame falls on Grizzly cause
>they pick the shipper not me, I just get to pay for them.
You can pick your own shipper, but expect to pay 3 to 4 times
what Griz charges for freight.
--== May The Angst Be With You! ==--
-Yoda, on a bad day
--
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