I have been stetting up my new shop over the past few months and have
researched dust collection on the net and by reading a few books on the
subject. This morning I found this article on the Wood Whisperer site.
http://home.comcast.net/~rodec/woodworking/articles/DC_myths.html#who#who
It basically states that there is almost no chance of a fire/explosion from
using ungrounded PVC ducts with your dust collector.
cm
"Leon" wrote
>
> Yes you can get a drink of water by simply breathing through your open
> mouth, in the Summer months. Winter however can be quite dry and I build
> up quite a charge, enough so that I try to temember to discharge myself by
> grasping my keys and letting the tip of a key be the ignition point as get
> ready to close the door. You can easily see a 1/4" spark.
>
>
Reminds me of the electronics lab at my old technical school. We were tasked
with not only generating huge amounts of static electricity with/without our
bodies, but we had to discharge it and MEASURE it! It became like a horror
movie, mad scientist laboratory.
We had different kinds of synthetic material that we would rub with glass
rods and our feet. We would build up a charge and go out into the hallway
and look for victims. After enough complaints, we got shut down. Talk
about being politically incorrect.
"Lee Michaels" <leemichaels*nadaspam*@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Reminds me of the electronics lab at my old technical school. We were
> tasked with not only generating huge amounts of static electricity
> with/without our bodies, but we had to discharge it and MEASURE it! It
> became like a horror movie, mad scientist laboratory.
>
> We had different kinds of synthetic material that we would rub with glass
> rods and our feet. We would build up a charge and go out into the hallway
> and look for victims. After enough complaints, we got shut down. Talk
> about being politically incorrect.
I learned the key trick in my college physics class. We too were working
with high voltage static electricity. I first started using the technique
for practical use when vacationing in the mountains, I could actually feel
the jolt up to my elbow.
Robatoy wrote:
> On Jan 15, 11:04Â am, FrozenNorth <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>> Limp Arbor wrote:
>> > On Jan 15, 10:07Â am, "cm" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> Leon,
>>
>> >> I agree with your comments. Very good point on the flammables.
>>
>> >> One of the books I read suggested it is not worth the chance to use
>> >> PVC ducting. I would say it is very safe along with some grounding.
>>
>> > Oh no! not the PVC grounding thread again...
>>
>> > Wrecker A: It is safe if you ground it.
>>
>> > Wrecker B: You can't ground PVC, it is an insulator.
>>
>> > Wrecker C: Don't listen to B, mine is grounded and I've never been
>> > shocked.
>>
>> > Wrecker B: C has been very lucky.
>>
>> > Wrecker D: I worked for Norad after I graduated from MIT and we were
>> > not allowed to use PVC because of the explosion hazards.
>>
>> > Wrecker E: B & D are overstating the risk, in the past 200 years
>> > Lloyds has never paid an explosion claim for a home workshop using PVC
>> > dust collection.
>>
>> > Wrecker F: What is ABPW? and why can't I get to it.
>>
>> Wrecker Rob: Â I was dreaming about Swedish girls, and then thoughts about
>> ungrounded PVC destroyed it all, in one loud boom.
>>
>>
>>
>> > There, that should about cover it.
>>
>> Fixed you post.
>> ;-)
>> --
>> Froz...
>
> LOL...
>
> Angela likes to study curled up on the couch in the den with this warm
> fuzzy, synthetic-fur-like blanket.
> Now, with this cold snap, the air is dry.
> She got off the couch and shed the blanket and reached for the
> aluminium mac keyboard.
> The sound of that static crack, and Ang's reaction certainly had the
> Swedish twins button up in record speed.
My wife just plays with her iPod Touch 32GB, while wearing sweats.
;-)
--
Froz...
2 feet longer than a d00tchie.
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> And still on another note, when we had carpet in our house I was always
> zapping our dog on her nose on those cold dry days, she'd kinda freak out.
I do that with my cat, except I don't need a carpet. Stroke her side a few
times, shock her nose and then she chomps on my finger. It's down to the
point now that it's a game we play and she keeps coming back for more. I end
up laughing my head off for about ten minutes.
Limp Arbor wrote:
> On Jan 15, 10:07Â am, "cm" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Leon,
>>
>> I agree with your comments. Very good point on the flammables.
>>
>> One of the books I read suggested it is not worth the chance to use PVC
>> ducting. I would say it is very safe along with some grounding.
>>
>
> Oh no! not the PVC grounding thread again...
>
> Wrecker A: It is safe if you ground it.
>
> Wrecker B: You can't ground PVC, it is an insulator.
>
> Wrecker C: Don't listen to B, mine is grounded and I've never been
> shocked.
>
> Wrecker B: C has been very lucky.
>
> Wrecker D: I worked for Norad after I graduated from MIT and we were
> not allowed to use PVC because of the explosion hazards.
>
> Wrecker E: B & D are overstating the risk, in the past 200 years
> Lloyds has never paid an explosion claim for a home workshop using PVC
> dust collection.
>
> Wrecker F: What is ABPW? and why can't I get to it.
>
Wrecker Rob: I was dreaming about Swedish girls, and then thoughts about
ungrounded PVC destroyed it all, in one loud boom.
>
>
> There, that should about cover it.
Fixed you post.
;-)
--
Froz...
"Puckdropper" <puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com> wrote in message
> I got an infrared thermometer with laser that uses 9V batteries... It's
> been used to take temperatures of things maybe 10 times, as a cat toy
> over 100.
Is that one of those thermometers that you point at something and it gives
you the temperature?
Got a make or model?
"Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
>
> "Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> Get one of those laser pointers, Dave. Cats go nuts
>> chasing that little red dot.
>
> I've already got two actually, but they're murder on the batteries @$5
> each. I only pull them out now when my best friend's kids come over.
>
>
>
I got an infrared thermometer with laser that uses 9V batteries... It's
been used to take temperatures of things maybe 10 times, as a cat toy
over 100.
Puckdropper
"Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
>
> "Puckdropper" <puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com> wrote in message
>> I got an infrared thermometer with laser that uses 9V batteries...
>> It's been used to take temperatures of things maybe 10 times, as a
>> cat toy over 100.
>
> Is that one of those thermometers that you point at something and it
> gives you the temperature?
>
> Got a make or model?
>
Yep. Here's a link to it:
http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=IR-THERMOMTR
Be sure to visit in the day time to buy, they often have daily specials
during "work" hours. This has been on the list a few times.
Puckdropper
--
On Usenet, no one can hear you laugh. That's a good thing, though, as
some writers are incorrigible.
To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm
"MikeWhy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> How many gas pump fires? Having a difficult time here googling up hard
> numbers. I suppose just one is enough to ruin your day, but just how many
> fires? (Never mind explosions. We're pretty much safe even with the filler
> neck on fire, unless you happen to be filming a movie.)
It seems like at least once a year there is news coverage of a fire at a gas
pump. IIRC gasoline cans or pump lables warn about this possibility.
> Regards flammables in the shop... One of my most favorite toys is a
> Swedish Firesteel. It's a magnesium rod that throws off little burning
> bits of itself when struck. Finding usable tinder isn't really difficult,
> but it's bad enough that I keep it with a box of cotton balls already
> soaked in petroleum jelly. In context of DC fires and static discharge,
> the energy content in even one magnesium spark is magnitudes larger than
> what leaves your fingertips.
Conditions being rightand on a cold dry day I can see an arc that measures a
quarter inch or so if I grab the ungrounded end of the DC hose. Much longer
than that of the typical spark plug. My concern is if you have some acetone
near by or on a rag. I am not so much worried about whether the DC is
running or its particular contents.
>
> Not sure what I'm trying to say. Yes, the potential is there, but just how
> big a danger is it? How much energy will it take to ignite the gas fumes
> exiting the filler neck? How easy is it ignite that pile of wood dust? For
> that matter, I have died of BLO soaked rags yet...
The potential is probably very low for even flamable fumes but the danger
could be high if they actually ignited. The quarter inch arc is way past
enough to ignite flamable fumes if they are present. You only need a simple
spark in the right atmosphere.
"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> Get one of those laser pointers, Dave. Cats go nuts
> chasing that little red dot.
I've already got two actually, but they're murder on the batteries @$5 each.
I only pull them out now when my best friend's kids come over.
You did forget to mention that the original
poster was probably a "pinko,communist,gay basher,
IRA member,child molester, non-woodworker,
who didn't know his ass from his elbow and
should be in hell for even suggesting something
that dangerous.
Limp Arbor wrote:
> Oh no! not the PVC grounding thread again...
>
> Wrecker A: It is safe if you ground it.
On Jan 15, 10:07=A0am, "cm" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Leon,
>
> I agree with your comments. Very good point on the flammables.
>
> One of the books I read suggested it is not worth the chance to use PVC
> ducting. I would say it is very safe along with some grounding.
>
Oh no! not the PVC grounding thread again...
Wrecker A: It is safe if you ground it.
Wrecker B: You can't ground PVC, it is an insulator.
Wrecker C: Don't listen to B, mine is grounded and I've never been
shocked.
Wrecker B: C has been very lucky.
Wrecker D: I worked for Norad after I graduated from MIT and we were
not allowed to use PVC because of the explosion hazards.
Wrecker E: B & D are overstating the risk, in the past 200 years
Lloyds has never paid an explosion claim for a home workshop using PVC
dust collection.
Wrecker F: What is ABPW? and why can't I get to it.
There, that should about cover it.
cm wrote:
>
> It basically states that there is almost no chance of a fire/explosion from
> using ungrounded PVC ducts with your dust collector.
Everything he wrote makes perfect sense to me.
I pulled out my grounds, as they caused clogs. Guess what? I see no
difference, other than a lack of clogs. <G>
"Ed Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> After taking of my jacket, I grab a coin from my pocket and ground it
> before kissing my wife. She appreciates it.
>
And still on another note, when we had carpet in our house I was always
zapping our dog on her nose on those cold dry days, she'd kinda freak out.
;!)
"Steve Turner" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>
>> I am not sure how old you are but I recall numerous news reports of fires
>> at the pumps caused by a static discharge. Pumps in Houston warn to not
>> fill loose gas cans inside a vehicle.
>
> I wouldn't dispute that, but no I hadn't heard any such reports and I
> figure if they were "numerous" I would have heard of at least one. Anyway,
> my (implied) point was that the odds of an explosion in the presence of
> static electricity and gasoline vapors would seem far more likely that one
> in a wood shop, but how's about we just forget I said anything and we'll
> put the lid back on this can of worms...
I've seen video of the exploding gas at the pumps. Usually caused when in
the winter someone sets the pump to fill, gets back in the car to keep warm,
then gets out and grabs the pump handle. I think that is one reason self
service pump do not have the locking fill handle.
Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> Lucky you. In CT or MA you won't find one where the thingie has not been
> removed. I hate holding the thing in freezing weather or when I could be
> cleaning the windshield. You can jam it with the gas cap though, but only
> in a slow position.
A tennis ball works well for high speed fills.
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
[email protected]
"Doug Winterburn" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>>
> In all the western states I've driven through Washington, California,
> Idaho, Nevada, Utah, Arizona, Colorado, Montana, New Mexico, Texas,
> etc), I've never seen any non-locking fill handles, in fact I've never
> seen even one! I assume you're talking about the three position ridged
> thingie with the metal spring loaded fliper thingie thaqt allows you to
> "set and forget"? Can't be sure about Oregon as they don't allow self
> serve.
Several years ago the pumps in Texas did not have the lock but have
reappeared in full force.
Leon wrote:
>
> "cm" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Leon,
>>
>> I agree with your comments. Very good point on the flammables.
>>
>> One of the books I read suggested it is not worth the chance to use PVC
>> ducting. I would say it is very safe along with some grounding.
>>
>> cm
>
>
> I think the chances are slim but possible depending on the circumstances.
> Half of my 20 flexible hose is grounded and I get zapped on occasion. For
> that matter I get zapped every time I get out of my truck during the
> winter months.
In Houston? You gotta be kiddin' me. Can't you pretty much squeeze
water out of the air down there?
That kind of stuff is a regular occurrence for us in AZ. We've got a
humidifier that we run in the winter just to avoid being shocked when
touching any metal.
--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough
"Mark & Juanita" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Leon wrote:
>
>>
>> "cm" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> Leon,
>>>
>>> I agree with your comments. Very good point on the flammables.
>>>
>>> One of the books I read suggested it is not worth the chance to use PVC
>>> ducting. I would say it is very safe along with some grounding.
>>>
>>> cm
>>
>>
>> I think the chances are slim but possible depending on the circumstances.
>> Half of my 20 flexible hose is grounded and I get zapped on occasion.
>> For
>> that matter I get zapped every time I get out of my truck during the
>> winter months.
>
> In Houston? You gotta be kiddin' me. Can't you pretty much squeeze
> water out of the air down there?
Yes you can get a drink of water by simply breathing through your open
mouth, in the Summer months. Winter however can be quite dry and I build up
quite a charge, enough so that I try to temember to discharge myself by
grasping my keys and letting the tip of a key be the ignition point as get
ready to close the door. You can easily see a 1/4" spark.
>
> That kind of stuff is a regular occurrence for us in AZ. We've got a
> humidifier that we run in the winter just to avoid being shocked when
> touching any metal.
When I visited my sister in Denver it always seemed strange to want to
humidify the air. LOL
"cm" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Leon,
>
> I agree with your comments. Very good point on the flammables.
>
> One of the books I read suggested it is not worth the chance to use PVC
> ducting. I would say it is very safe along with some grounding.
>
> cm
I think the chances are slim but possible depending on the circumstances.
Half of my 20 flexible hose is grounded and I get zapped on occasion. For
that matter I get zapped every time I get out of my truck during the winter
months.
"Doug Winterburn" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>
> In all the western states I've driven through Washington, California,
> Idaho, Nevada, Utah, Arizona, Colorado, Montana, New Mexico, Texas,
> etc), I've never seen any non-locking fill handles, in fact I've never
> seen even one! I assume you're talking about the three position ridged
> thingie with the metal spring loaded fliper thingie thaqt allows you to
> "set and forget"? Can't be sure about Oregon as they don't allow self
> serve.
Lucky you. In CT or MA you won't find one where the thingie has not been
removed. I hate holding the thing in freezing weather or when I could be
cleaning the windshield. You can jam it with the gas cap though, but only
in a slow position.
I did have a near accident though some years ago when self service first
started. The person before me put the handle back in the locked on
position. I picked it up and turned the switch on and gas started to spew.
I was able to stop it quickly, but enough spilled that it could have been
serious had a smoker been right there. Pumps have since been redesigned.
Leon,
I agree with your comments. Very good point on the flammables.
One of the books I read suggested it is not worth the chance to use PVC
ducting. I would say it is very safe along with some grounding.
cm
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "cm" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>I have been stetting up my new shop over the past few months and have
>>researched dust collection on the net and by reading a few books on the
>>subject. This morning I found this article on the Wood Whisperer site.
>> http://home.comcast.net/~rodec/woodworking/articles/DC_myths.html#who#who
>>
>> It basically states that there is almost no chance of a fire/explosion
>> from using ungrounded PVC ducts with your dust collector.
>>
>> cm
>>
>
> Because the hose and or PVC pipe will discharge static electricity, I have
> been zapped on numerous occasions, I suggest you not have open flammables
> close to a possible static electricity discharge location.
>
> Additionally, almost no chance does not exclusively mean no chance.
> Almost any home or shop has no chance of a fire or explosion whether it
> has a dust collector or not.
>
> Common sense precautions should always be observed.
>
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>
>>
>>
>> I learned the key trick in my college physics class. We too were working
>> with high voltage static electricity. I first started using the
>> technique for practical use when vacationing in the mountains, I could
>> actually feel the jolt up to my elbow.
>
>
> Something to be aware of however. Modern vehicle keys have anti theft
> circuitry in them, I wonder how they would hold up after using them as a
> conduit to discharge you static charge.
>
After taking of my jacket, I grab a coin from my pocket and ground it before
kissing my wife. She appreciates it.
Leon wrote:
> "Steve Turner" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Leon wrote:
>>> "cm" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>> Leon,
>>>>
>>>> I agree with your comments. Very good point on the flammables.
>>>>
>>>> One of the books I read suggested it is not worth the chance to use PVC
>>>> ducting. I would say it is very safe along with some grounding.
>>>>
>>>> cm
>>>
>>> I think the chances are slim but possible depending on the circumstances.
>>> Half of my 20 flexible hose is grounded and I get zapped on occasion.
>>> For that matter I get zapped every time I get out of my truck during the
>>> winter months.
>> Even at the gas station while other people are pumping gas? And you
>> haven't spontaneously combusted?!
>
>
> I am not sure how old you are but I recall numerous news reports of fires at
> the pumps caused by a static discharge. Pumps in Houston warn to not fill
> loose gas cans inside a vehicle.
I wouldn't dispute that, but no I hadn't heard any such reports and I
figure if they were "numerous" I would have heard of at least one.
Anyway, my (implied) point was that the odds of an explosion in the
presence of static electricity and gasoline vapors would seem far more
likely that one in a wood shop, but how's about we just forget I said
anything and we'll put the lid back on this can of worms...
BTW, I just turned forty-mffmefmfs... :-)
--
See Nad. See Nad go. Go Nad!
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/
J. Clarke wrote:
> Pat Barber wrote:
>> You did forget to mention that the original
>> poster was probably a "pinko,communist,
>
> Doesn't "fag" usually come here in that litany?
>
>> gay basher,
>> IRA member,child molester, non-woodworker,
>> who didn't know his ass from his elbow and
>> should be in hell for even suggesting something
>> that dangerous.
>>
>> Limp Arbor wrote:
>>
>>> Oh no! not the PVC grounding thread again...
>>>
>>> Wrecker A: It is safe if you ground it.
>
along with tree hugging, baby killing, bleeding heart, commie, pinko,
liberal, leftwing puke!
yr hmbl srvnt,
jo4hn
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
>
> I learned the key trick in my college physics class. We too were working
> with high voltage static electricity. I first started using the technique
> for practical use when vacationing in the mountains, I could actually feel
> the jolt up to my elbow.
Something to be aware of however. Modern vehicle keys have anti theft
circuitry in them, I wonder how they would hold up after using them as a
conduit to discharge you static charge.
On Jan 15, 11:04=A0am, FrozenNorth <[email protected]>
wrote:
> Limp Arbor wrote:
> > On Jan 15, 10:07=A0am, "cm" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> Leon,
>
> >> I agree with your comments. Very good point on the flammables.
>
> >> One of the books I read suggested it is not worth the chance to use PV=
C
> >> ducting. I would say it is very safe along with some grounding.
>
> > Oh no! not the PVC grounding thread again...
>
> > Wrecker A: It is safe if you ground it.
>
> > Wrecker B: You can't ground PVC, it is an insulator.
>
> > Wrecker C: Don't listen to B, mine is grounded and I've never been
> > shocked.
>
> > Wrecker B: C has been very lucky.
>
> > Wrecker D: I worked for Norad after I graduated from MIT and we were
> > not allowed to use PVC because of the explosion hazards.
>
> > Wrecker E: B & D are overstating the risk, in the past 200 years
> > Lloyds has never paid an explosion claim for a home workshop using PVC
> > dust collection.
>
> > Wrecker F: What is ABPW? and why can't I get to it.
>
> Wrecker Rob: =A0I was dreaming about Swedish girls, and then thoughts abo=
ut
> ungrounded PVC destroyed it all, in one loud boom.
>
>
>
> > There, that should about cover it.
>
> Fixed you post.
> ;-)
> --
> Froz...
LOL...
Angela likes to study curled up on the couch in the den with this warm
fuzzy, synthetic-fur-like blanket.
Now, with this cold snap, the air is dry.
She got off the couch and shed the blanket and reached for the
aluminium mac keyboard.
The sound of that static crack, and Ang's reaction certainly had the
Swedish twins button up in record speed.
On Jan 16, 11:34=A0pm, "Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > And still on another note, when we had carpet in our house I was always
> > zapping our dog on her nose on those cold dry days, she'd kinda freak o=
ut.
>
> I do that with my cat, except I don't need a carpet. Stroke her side a fe=
w
> times, shock her nose and then she chomps on my finger. It's down to the
> point now that it's a game we play and she keeps coming back for more. I =
end
> up laughing my head off for about ten minutes.
Get one of those laser pointers, Dave. Cats go nuts chasing that
little red dot.
Lorne Elliott does a whole routine on stage with one...funny stuff.
"Steve Turner" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> I wouldn't dispute that, but no I hadn't heard any such reports and I
> figure if they were "numerous" I would have heard of at least one. Anyway,
> my (implied) point was that the odds of an explosion in the presence of
> static electricity and gasoline vapors would seem far more likely that one
> in a wood shop, but how's about we just forget I said anything and we'll
> put the lid back on this can of worms...
While I agree that an explosion from saw dust and a static spark is
unlikely, the work shop does have volatile substances that could ignite.
My original point to my post was to point out that saw dust in the dust
collector is not the only thing that could be ignited by a static spark.
>
> BTW, I just turned forty-mffmefmfs... :-)
Forty What? LOL
I don't recall anything that caused a
bigger name calling contest than the
several infamous PVC dust collection
safety issues.
People have in the past resorted to some
real name calling all in the name of
safety.
My personal favorite was about the
"many" explosions caused by using PVC
for dust collection. It seemed that you
can stand outside your shop and actually
hear the shops blowing up all around you.
J. Clarke wrote:
Clipped all the nasty names...
"Steve Turner" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Leon wrote:
>> "cm" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> Leon,
>>>
>>> I agree with your comments. Very good point on the flammables.
>>>
>>> One of the books I read suggested it is not worth the chance to use PVC
>>> ducting. I would say it is very safe along with some grounding.
>>>
>>> cm
>>
>>
>> I think the chances are slim but possible depending on the circumstances.
>> Half of my 20 flexible hose is grounded and I get zapped on occasion.
>> For that matter I get zapped every time I get out of my truck during the
>> winter months.
>
> Even at the gas station while other people are pumping gas? And you
> haven't spontaneously combusted?!
I am not sure how old you are but I recall numerous news reports of fires at
the pumps caused by a static discharge. Pumps in Houston warn to not fill
loose gas cans inside a vehicle.
Pat Barber wrote:
> You did forget to mention that the original
> poster was probably a "pinko,communist,
Doesn't "fag" usually come here in that litany?
> gay basher,
> IRA member,child molester, non-woodworker,
> who didn't know his ass from his elbow and
> should be in hell for even suggesting something
> that dangerous.
>
> Limp Arbor wrote:
>
>> Oh no! not the PVC grounding thread again...
>>
>> Wrecker A: It is safe if you ground it.
--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> "Steve Turner" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>
>>> I am not sure how old you are but I recall numerous news reports
>>> of
>>> fires at the pumps caused by a static discharge. Pumps in Houston
>>> warn to not fill loose gas cans inside a vehicle.
>>
>> I wouldn't dispute that, but no I hadn't heard any such reports and
>> I
>> figure if they were "numerous" I would have heard of at least one.
>> Anyway, my (implied) point was that the odds of an explosion in the
>> presence of static electricity and gasoline vapors would seem far
>> more likely that one in a wood shop, but how's about we just forget
>> I said anything and we'll put the lid back on this can of worms...
>
> I've seen video of the exploding gas at the pumps. Usually caused
> when in the winter someone sets the pump to fill, gets back in the
> car to keep warm, then gets out and grabs the pump handle. I think
> that is one reason self service pump do not have the locking fill
> handle.
Which is why I keep a piece of velcro on the lid holder on the gas
cap.
--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Doug Winterburn wrote:
> Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> "Steve Turner" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>> I am not sure how old you are but I recall numerous news reports
>>>> of fires at the pumps caused by a static discharge. Pumps in
>>>> Houston warn to not fill loose gas cans inside a vehicle.
>>> I wouldn't dispute that, but no I hadn't heard any such reports
>>> and
>>> I figure if they were "numerous" I would have heard of at least
>>> one. Anyway, my (implied) point was that the odds of an explosion
>>> in the presence of static electricity and gasoline vapors would
>>> seem far more likely that one in a wood shop, but how's about we
>>> just forget I said anything and we'll put the lid back on this can
>>> of worms...
>>
>> I've seen video of the exploding gas at the pumps. Usually caused
>> when in the winter someone sets the pump to fill, gets back in the
>> car to keep warm, then gets out and grabs the pump handle. I think
>> that is one reason self service pump do not have the locking fill
>> handle.
>>
>>
> In all the western states I've driven through Washington,
> California,
> Idaho, Nevada, Utah, Arizona, Colorado, Montana, New Mexico, Texas,
> etc), I've never seen any non-locking fill handles, in fact I've
> never
> seen even one! I assume you're talking about the three position
> ridged thingie with the metal spring loaded fliper thingie thaqt
> allows you to "set and forget"? Can't be sure about Oregon as they
> don't allow self serve.
In CT some pumps have 'em, some don't, even at the same station. I've
been assuming that they just got busted off and nobody replaced 'em.
--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
J. Clarke wrote:
> Which is why I keep a piece of velcro on the lid holder on the gas
> cap.
In PA, most have the holders but some don't. I always stick my gas cap
in the ones that don't... Once at a Sheets, I did this and the auto
shutoff didn't shut off... gas everywhere. I still do it now, but pay
more attention.
--
Jack
Using FREE News Server: http://Motzarella.org
http://jbstein.com
"Ed Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>>
>
> After taking of my jacket, I grab a coin from my pocket and ground it
> before kissing my wife. She appreciates it.
>
Your sure are lucky ED, my wife prefers the paper money. ;~)
"Pat Barber" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I don't recall anything that caused a
> bigger name calling contest than the
> several infamous PVC dust collection
> safety issues.
Mailbox.
On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 07:02:55 -0700, "cm" <[email protected]> wrote:
>I have been stetting up my new shop over the past few months and have
>researched dust collection on the net and by reading a few books on the
>subject. This morning I found this article on the Wood Whisperer site.
>http://home.comcast.net/~rodec/woodworking/articles/DC_myths.html#who#who
>
>It basically states that there is almost no chance of a fire/explosion from
>using ungrounded PVC ducts with your dust collector.
That was written several years ago by my friend Rod Cole, formerly of
the Badger Pond woodworking forum (now defunct). He is (or
was--haven't heard from him in a while) an engineer at MIT. I've long
considered this the definitive work on home shop DC systems and PVC
piping.
--
LRod
Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite
Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999
http://www.woodbutcher.net
http://www.normstools.com
Proud participant of rec.woodworking since February, 1997
email addy de-spam-ified due to 1,000 spams per month.
If you can't figure out how to use it, I probably wouldn't
care to correspond with you anyway.
Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> "Steve Turner" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> I am not sure how old you are but I recall numerous news reports of fires
>>> at the pumps caused by a static discharge. Pumps in Houston warn to not
>>> fill loose gas cans inside a vehicle.
>> I wouldn't dispute that, but no I hadn't heard any such reports and I
>> figure if they were "numerous" I would have heard of at least one. Anyway,
>> my (implied) point was that the odds of an explosion in the presence of
>> static electricity and gasoline vapors would seem far more likely that one
>> in a wood shop, but how's about we just forget I said anything and we'll
>> put the lid back on this can of worms...
>
> I've seen video of the exploding gas at the pumps. Usually caused when in
> the winter someone sets the pump to fill, gets back in the car to keep warm,
> then gets out and grabs the pump handle. I think that is one reason self
> service pump do not have the locking fill handle.
>
>
In all the western states I've driven through Washington, California,
Idaho, Nevada, Utah, Arizona, Colorado, Montana, New Mexico, Texas,
etc), I've never seen any non-locking fill handles, in fact I've never
seen even one! I assume you're talking about the three position ridged
thingie with the metal spring loaded fliper thingie thaqt allows you to
"set and forget"? Can't be sure about Oregon as they don't allow self
serve.
"Ed Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Doug Winterburn" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>
>> In all the western states I've driven through Washington, California,
>> Idaho, Nevada, Utah, Arizona, Colorado, Montana, New Mexico, Texas,
>> etc), I've never seen any non-locking fill handles, in fact I've never
>> seen even one! I assume you're talking about the three position ridged
>> thingie with the metal spring loaded fliper thingie thaqt allows you to
>> "set and forget"? Can't be sure about Oregon as they don't allow self
>> serve.
>
> Lucky you. In CT or MA you won't find one where the thingie has not been
> removed. I hate holding the thing in freezing weather or when I could be
> cleaning the windshield. You can jam it with the gas cap though, but only
> in a slow position.
Wow you bring back memories with the mention of delicately inserting the cap
in the handle. LOL
>
> I did have a near accident though some years ago when self service first
> started. The person before me put the handle back in the locked on
> position. I picked it up and turned the switch on and gas started to
> spew. I was able to stop it quickly, but enough spilled that it could have
> been serious had a smoker been right there. Pumps have since been
> redesigned.
>
Leon wrote:
> "Doug Winterburn" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>> In all the western states I've driven through Washington, California,
>> Idaho, Nevada, Utah, Arizona, Colorado, Montana, New Mexico, Texas,
>> etc), I've never seen any non-locking fill handles, in fact I've never
>> seen even one! I assume you're talking about the three position ridged
>> thingie with the metal spring loaded fliper thingie thaqt allows you to
>> "set and forget"? Can't be sure about Oregon as they don't allow self
>> serve.
>
>
> Several years ago the pumps in Texas did not have the lock but have
> reappeared in full force.
>
>
When selfservice gas stations replaced attendents the fuel pump lever
locks were removed or never installed because a number of the usual
suspects were worried that the members of the motoring public were to
STUPID to know how to properly work them. So they got the nervous
nellies at the Fire Marshals Office to declare them hazardous and caused
them to be outlawed. Well the motoring public was smarter than the
average enviroterrorist and we have a resurgence of lever locks.
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Ed Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>
>> I've seen video of the exploding gas at the pumps. Usually caused when in
>> the winter someone sets the pump to fill, gets back in the car to keep
>> warm, then gets out and grabs the pump handle. I think that is one
>> reason self service pump do not have the locking fill handle.
>>
>
> That makes sense, all of that. I recall pump handles not having a lock
> and then a few years ago the lock levers began to reappear. In Houston I
> think all pumps have the lock and we are seeing an increase in fires at
> the pump.
How many gas pump fires? Having a difficult time here googling up hard
numbers. I suppose just one is enough to ruin your day, but just how many
fires? (Never mind explosions. We're pretty much safe even with the filler
neck on fire, unless you happen to be filming a movie.)
Regards flammables in the shop... One of my most favorite toys is a Swedish
Firesteel. It's a magnesium rod that throws off little burning bits of
itself when struck. Finding usable tinder isn't really difficult, but it's
bad enough that I keep it with a box of cotton balls already soaked in
petroleum jelly. In context of DC fires and static discharge, the energy
content in even one magnesium spark is magnitudes larger than what leaves
your fingertips.
Not sure what I'm trying to say. Yes, the potential is there, but just how
big a danger is it? How much energy will it take to ignite the gas fumes
exiting the filler neck? How easy is it ignite that pile of wood dust? For
that matter, I have died of BLO soaked rags yet...
"cm" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I have been stetting up my new shop over the past few months and have
>researched dust collection on the net and by reading a few books on the
>subject. This morning I found this article on the Wood Whisperer site.
> http://home.comcast.net/~rodec/woodworking/articles/DC_myths.html#who#who
>
> It basically states that there is almost no chance of a fire/explosion
> from using ungrounded PVC ducts with your dust collector.
>
> cm
>
Because the hose and or PVC pipe will discharge static electricity, I have
been zapped on numerous occasions, I suggest you not have open flammables
close to a possible static electricity discharge location.
Additionally, almost no chance does not exclusively mean no chance. Almost
any home or shop has no chance of a fire or explosion whether it has a dust
collector or not.
Common sense precautions should always be observed.
Leon wrote:
> "cm" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Leon,
>>
>> I agree with your comments. Very good point on the flammables.
>>
>> One of the books I read suggested it is not worth the chance to use PVC
>> ducting. I would say it is very safe along with some grounding.
>>
>> cm
>
>
> I think the chances are slim but possible depending on the circumstances.
> Half of my 20 flexible hose is grounded and I get zapped on occasion. For
> that matter I get zapped every time I get out of my truck during the winter
> months.
Even at the gas station while other people are pumping gas? And you
haven't spontaneously combusted?!
--
Free bad advice available here.
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/
"Ed Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> I've seen video of the exploding gas at the pumps. Usually caused when in
> the winter someone sets the pump to fill, gets back in the car to keep
> warm, then gets out and grabs the pump handle. I think that is one reason
> self service pump do not have the locking fill handle.
>
That makes sense, all of that. I recall pump handles not having a lock and
then a few years ago the lock levers began to reappear. In Houston I think
all pumps have the lock and we are seeing an increase in fires at the pump.