Angle grinder for cutting wood

On May 16, 4:26=A0am, "Mike Marlow" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> js.b1 wrote:
> > Diamond blade plus angle grinder on a treet stump killed someone
> > recently (kickback into neck). Suicidal.
>
> Bull. =A0Diamond wheel on an angle grinder is the wrong combination, but =
not
> for that reason. =A0Kickback has nothing to do with the wheel on the grin=
der,

Fuckwit.

A diamond disc will not cut wood due to the mimimal depth of the
cutting surfaces, it will instead burn through whilst spinning at
circa 10,000 RPM.

A diamond disc with sintered tabs, several long teeth interspersed by
gaps, will snag on the wood fibres - flinging unsecured wood at some
function of the 80m/sec disc speed, kicking back off sufficiently
immovable wood or shredding wood into a fibrous pulp rather than
efficiently cutting. With sintered tab on wood there is some risk of
ejecting a tab or a limited risk of catastrophic disc fracturing from
a tab gap (most discs have the tab slot ending at a circular hole to
reduce crack propogation across the disc causing separation which at
circa 10,000rpm would be unpleasant).

A diamond disc that is continuous (does not have a tabbed perimeter)
will just bounce off the surface or burn through.


This is exactly how someone killed themselves with a diamond disc in
an angle grinder, it kicked back off a tree stump and embedded itself
in their neck severing an artery. Most likely a tabbed diamond disc
where the slots snagged on a particularly resilient group of wood
fibres so launching the grinder up into the victim's neck.

Any blade for wood cutting at angle-grinder RPM will need to have a
very robust disc construction, very robust teeth to resist the peak
shear forces along with an appropriate tip cutting angle, and large
inter teeth gap to handle the extremely high material ejection levels
at such high RPM. That is to say teeth gaps of several millimetres
compared to the sub-milimetre gap for diamond cutting brick particle
ejection.


> A reciprocating saw more typically just has one blade that simply, well..=
.
> reciprocates.

Alligator saw has double blades, demolition saw has single blade. An
alligator saw is a lot more useful to a DIYer.

John Rumm wrote:
> On 16/05/2010 17:09, js.b1 wrote:
>> On May 16, 4:42 pm, stuart noble<[email protected]> wrote:
>>> John Rumm wrote:
>>>> Multiply by the blade circumference... so for a 190mm blade at 4500 rpm
>>>> that is 4500 x 0.19 x pi = 2686 m/sec
>>
>> Heh-heh, blade tip travelling at beyond even rail gun projectile
>> hypersonic speed would be fun.
>>
>>> I knew I could count on you :-)
>>
>> RPS = 4500rpm / 60 = 75
>> Circumference is 2*Pi*R = 2 * 3.14 * 0.19/2 = 0.59m
>> Circumferential speed = 75 * 0.49 = 44m/sec.
>
> Well what's a factor of 60 between friends ;-)
>
> Yup, my bad - sorry!
>
>

What an old boss of mine would term a "slip-up" rather than a mistake :-)

> Don't use many angle grinders do you? Regardless of the 10,000 RPM, it
> still does not approach the speed of a simple circular saw or a sawzall.
>

My simple circular saw RPM is less than half that. Peripheral speed
unknown though

js.b1 wrote:

> On May 16, 4:26 am, "Mike Marlow" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>> js.b1 wrote:
>>> Diamond blade plus angle grinder on a treet stump killed someone
>>> recently (kickback into neck). Suicidal.
>>
>> Bull. Diamond wheel on an angle grinder is the wrong combination,
>> but not for that reason. Kickback has nothing to do with the wheel
>> on the grinder,
>
> Fuckwit.

Potty mouth.

>
> A diamond disc will not cut wood due to the mimimal depth of the
> cutting surfaces, it will instead burn through whilst spinning at
> circa 10,000 RPM.

Don't use many angle grinders do you? Regardless of the 10,000 RPM, it
still does not approach the speed of a simple circular saw or a sawzall.

>
> This is exactly how someone killed themselves with a diamond disc in
> an angle grinder, it kicked back off a tree stump and embedded itself
> in their neck severing an artery. Most likely a tabbed diamond disc
> where the slots snagged on a particularly resilient group of wood
> fibres so launching the grinder up into the victim's neck.

It's clear you don't use an angle grinder much. Any wheel in an angle
grinder is capable of kick back. All you have to do is contact the leading
edge of the rotating wheel. To my point - it's not a matter of the wheel in
use, it's a matter of where you contact it.


--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On 17/05/2010 09:35, stuart noble wrote:
> John Rumm wrote:
>> On 16/05/2010 17:09, js.b1 wrote:
>>> On May 16, 4:42 pm, stuart noble<[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> John Rumm wrote:
>>>>> Multiply by the blade circumference... so for a 190mm blade at 4500
>>>>> rpm
>>>>> that is 4500 x 0.19 x pi = 2686 m/sec
>>>
>>> Heh-heh, blade tip travelling at beyond even rail gun projectile
>>> hypersonic speed would be fun.
>>>
>>>> I knew I could count on you :-)
>>>
>>> RPS = 4500rpm / 60 = 75
>>> Circumference is 2*Pi*R = 2 * 3.14 * 0.19/2 = 0.59m
>>> Circumferential speed = 75 * 0.49 = 44m/sec.
>>
>> Well what's a factor of 60 between friends ;-)
>>
>> Yup, my bad - sorry!
>>
>>
>
> What an old boss of mine would term a "slip-up" rather than a mistake :-)

The daft thing was having done the sum the result felt intuitively wrong
- for starters I expected the rim speed to be lower than that of the AG.

(and hit send before looking at the actual number and realising that the
edge would be going supersonic several times over!!)

Still in hindsight - the answer was actually ok, just had the wrong
units. It should have been a linear speed of 2686 m/min ;-)

--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
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|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/

On Sun, 16 May 2010 11:25:02 +0000 (UTC), [email protected]
(Andrew Gabriel) wrote:
>
>I have one of these on the shelf in the garage, but the drill gave up
>(the day I just bought several new blades for it, of course).
>It worked well for 10+ years, before dedicated circular saws were
>available at affordable prices. B&D had a load of drill attachments
>of that form. My father also had the circular saw one, but also the
>jigsaw and the hedgecutter attachments (and probably some I've
>forgotten).


My father had the B&D circular saw attachment and the finishing sander
attachment. I inherited them and used them for a few years.

When I finally got around to buying a Bosch circular saw, I wondered
why on earth I had struggled on with the clunky B&D attachment.

On May 15, 4:00=A0pm, "john hamilton" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Novice has small angle grinder (takes discs 115 mm with central hole
> diameter 22mm). The discs i've already got for it are for grinding tiles =
and
> metal.
>
> Having knocked down a very old cedar garden shed, I want to cut up all th=
e
> wood. I'm wondering if i buy one of the diamond discs available for it,
> whether that would be reasonably ok for cutting wood with? =A0I cannot fi=
nd
> any discs that are said to be specifially for wood for this type of angle
> grinder.
>
> Some of the shed cladding wood is very thin (with nails all over the plac=
e)
> so i think the usual circular saw for wood would be a bit too hefty and
> vigourous on this thin wood of the shed. =A0 Grateful for any suggestions=
on
> the best type of circular disc to go for. =A0 Thanks.

A wood cutting plade for an angle grinder is available. I is a disk
with chainsaw teeth on it. Think it is used for carving. Definitly not
what you want.

Jimmie

On Sun, 16 May 2010 10:09:46 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
> The Medway Handyman <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Mike Marlow wrote:
>> > js.b1 wrote:
>> >
>> >> Diamond blade plus angle grinder on a treet stump killed someone
>> >> recently (kickback into neck). Suicidal.
>> >
>> > Bull. Diamond wheel on an angle grinder is the wrong combination,
>> > but not for that reason. Kickback has nothing to do with the wheel
>> > on the grinder, but instead has everything to do with where on
>> > contacts the wheel. Suicidal? Not at all. One stupid move on the
>> > part of a user does not make a tool suicidal.
>
>> More like homicidal then. You wouldn't get me within 10' of one.
>> Madness.
>
>Angle grinders scare me enough when used on the things they're meant for,
>with the correct blade. Dunno what I'm doing on this group. ;-)


Time you bought that pressure washer. :-)

On 16/05/2010 19:28, Lobster wrote:
> Bruce wrote:
>> On Sun, 16 May 2010 11:25:02 +0000 (UTC), [email protected]
>> (Andrew Gabriel) wrote:
>>> I have one of these on the shelf in the garage, but the drill gave up
>>> (the day I just bought several new blades for it, of course).
>>> It worked well for 10+ years, before dedicated circular saws were
>>> available at affordable prices. B&D had a load of drill attachments
>>> of that form. My father also had the circular saw one, but also the
>>> jigsaw and the hedgecutter attachments (and probably some I've
>>> forgotten).
>
> Somewhere I think I also still have the Vertical Drill Stand and the
> Horizontal Drill Stand (aka bench-grinder conversion tool)!
>
>> My father had the B&D circular saw attachment and the finishing sander
>> attachment. I inherited them and used them for a few years.
>> When I finally got around to buying a Bosch circular saw, I wondered
>> why on earth I had struggled on with the clunky B&D attachment.
>
> As Andrew alluded to, because of the prohibitive cost back then. I can
> remember my parents buying their first (and only - Mum still has it!)
> B&D drill in the early 70s. It was a 2-speed hammer job, and IIRC it
> cost 30-40 GBP, which would be worth probably ten times that in todays
> money. They certainly weren't a common part of people's household stuff
> as they are today. Presumably other portable power tools must have been
> similarly priced, accounting for the plethora of attachments you used to
> buy for them. God it was a PITA always swapping them over though!

I recall my mother buying a B&D suitcase in the early 80's, that came
with a 2 speed hammer drill and a bunch of accessories. Cost was £84
IIRC from Argos (or possibly the catalogue shop that preceded it. These
included the circular saw that got a fair bit of use (but with hindsight
was pretty poor!), an orbital sander (not too bad), and a jigsaw (had
the ergonomics of a pissed off octopus!) The drill itself is still
going... although it gets little use these days.

--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/

"john hamilton" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Novice has small angle grinder (takes discs 115 mm with central hole
> diameter 22mm). The discs i've already got for it are for grinding tiles
> and metal.
>
> Having knocked down a very old cedar garden shed, I want to cut up all the
> wood. I'm wondering if i buy one of the diamond discs available for it,
> whether that would be reasonably ok for cutting wood with? I cannot find
> any discs that are said to be specifially for wood for this type of angle
> grinder.
>
> Some of the shed cladding wood is very thin (with nails all over the
> place) so i think the usual circular saw for wood would be a bit too hefty
> and vigourous on this thin wood of the shed. Grateful for any
> suggestions on the best type of circular disc to go for. Thanks.
>
Sounds scary and dangerous. I would not recommend it. But there is a carving
disc for the mini grinder.

http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/2001846/3014/2-Industrial-Blade-for-Mini-Grinder-Woodworking-Kit.aspx

The capacity for this thing to grab things and throw them into your body is
probably infinite. The only way I would use anything like this if the
material was locked down into a big, secure vise. I would also wear gloves,
face protection and heavy clothing.

In some ways this is like cutting small limbs with a chain saw. The saw
grabs anything that is not solidly secured and throws it. And a certain
percentage of the time it hits you. And it hurts.

The number one rule of cutting anything small like this is to secure the
stock before cutting it. Any movement of the stock can be dangerous.

RE: Subject

Glad to see a lot of new partipican from the UK on this thread.

Welcome to the wreck.

Lew

In article <[email protected]>,
The Medway Handyman <[email protected]> wrote:
> Mike Marlow wrote:
> > js.b1 wrote:
> >
> >> Diamond blade plus angle grinder on a treet stump killed someone
> >> recently (kickback into neck). Suicidal.
> >
> > Bull. Diamond wheel on an angle grinder is the wrong combination,
> > but not for that reason. Kickback has nothing to do with the wheel
> > on the grinder, but instead has everything to do with where on
> > contacts the wheel. Suicidal? Not at all. One stupid move on the
> > part of a user does not make a tool suicidal.

> More like homicidal then. You wouldn't get me within 10' of one.
> Madness.

Angle grinders scare me enough when used on the things they're meant for,
with the correct blade. Dunno what I'm doing on this group. ;-)

--
*Half the people in the world are below average.

Dave Plowman [email protected] London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article <[email protected]>,
DanG <[email protected]> wrote:

> If it's so thin, just snap it over your knee. If you can't snap
> it over your knee,

Put it across a couple of bricks and stamp/jump on it.

In article <[email protected]>,
Dave Plowman (News) <[email protected]> wrote:
> Angle grinders scare me enough when used on the things they're meant for,
> with the correct blade. Dunno what I'm doing on this group. ;-)

Same as me probably

Stuart

--
Midlands Midsummer Mug show, for all things RISC OS, July 10th 2010.
Stuart Winsor

In article <[email protected]>,
stuart noble <[email protected]> wrote:
> In the old days B&D used to do a 5" circular saw blade as a drill
> attachment.

Yup, had one of those

> Can't imagine what it could have been used for,

It was usefull for cutting sheet material or ripping down the odd
floorboard :-)

In article <[email protected]>,
Harry Bloomfield <[email protected]> wrote:
> It happens that aemeijers formulated :
> > Wow- portable power tools for home use seemingly took a long winding
> > road in UK. (Maybe because of the different power?) All those tools
> > you described were available at realistic prices in the states by
> > late 60s early 70s- as stand-alone tools, not a 'Transformer' kit.
> > Most homes that had even a rudimentary workbench had a 3/8" drill, a
> > small saber saw, and a cheap circular saw. Sanders and such were
> > usually only purchased if the Mrs. was into furniture refinishing or
> > something. This was stuff for repairs and backyard construction of
> > kid-stuff, not for fine cabinetry.

> The stand-alone power tools started to become affordable for DIY from
> around the mid 80's in the UK. From around 2000 the prices have really
> fallen, due to all of the cheap imported stuff.

> My father's only power tool was a B&D drill from the 1960's, which I
> know cost a small fortune when he bought it. It was beautifully made
> and was still in pristine condition when I disposed of it a few years
> ago - its relatively small chuck made it not very practical for modern
> usage.

I still have my first drill, bought in the early '60s. Cost IIRC 11 quid -
pretty well a week's take home for me and I wasn't in a badly paid job.
3/8th chuck two speed B&D - all aluminium and painted blue. It still works
well - but I did have it overhauled at B&D in the 70s as I had a mate who
worked at the factory in Spennymoor? and at least the gearbox was changed
as that is now gold. Had a circular saw and jigsaw attachment for it -
both pretty useless.

--
*Plagiarism saves time *

Dave Plowman [email protected] London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article <[email protected]>,
DanG <[email protected]> wrote:
> Your mind is made up so I know this is a waste of time. Your wild
> ass statement about a diamond blade kicking back and cutting a
> man's neck is pure hyperbola, fiction, and prevarication. A
> diamond blade would be very hard pressed to cut your hand if you
> ran it into your hand at full speed.

If you're so sure about it perhaps you would like to demonstrate for us and
get your next of kin to put the video up on U-tube.

In article <[email protected]>,
Mike Marlow <[email protected]> wrote:
> Chain saws will most certainly kick back - as Lobby says. Very
> violently in fact.

I /knew/ someone that happened to :-(

In article <[email protected]>,
Lew Hodgett <[email protected]> wrote:
> RE: Subject

> Glad to see a lot of new partipican from the UK on this thread.

> Welcome to the wreck.

I suspect that is more due to the cross posting than actual newcomers to
the wreck :-)

Just ask MR. B.

john hamilton wrote:
> Novice has small angle grinder (takes discs 115 mm with central hole
> diameter 22mm). The discs i've already got for it are for grinding
> tiles and metal.
>
> Having knocked down a very old cedar garden shed, I want to cut up
> all the wood. I'm wondering if i buy one of the diamond discs
> available for it, whether that would be reasonably ok for cutting
> wood with? I cannot find any discs that are said to be specifially
> for wood for this type of angle grinder.
>
> Some of the shed cladding wood is very thin (with nails all over the
> place) so i think the usual circular saw for wood would be a bit too
> hefty and vigourous on this thin wood of the shed. Grateful for any
> suggestions on the best type of circular disc to go for. Thanks.

Well, no.

First, the basic rule is the inverse relationship between tooth size and
material hardness: The harder the material, the smaller the teeth
(generally). For cutting granite, you use diamonds; for cutting soft wood
you use something like 24/tpi.

Second, a circular saw with a demolition blade won't even hiccup with a
nail.

Third, if the wood is too flimsy, stack up several pieces and cut the lot.

Me? I'd burn the stuff in situ and be done with it.

Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Sun, 16 May 2010 22:20:03 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
> <[email protected]> wrote the following:
>
>> Larry Jaques wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> My 2-decade old Remington chainsaw nearly bit the dust last week
>>> when I let a rental worker (needed an extra body for digging out
>>> those pampas grass clusters) use it. It had been cracked already,
>>> but the bar and chain now bounce around a 7" arc at the tip. It
>>> still works, and I cut down 2 dozen hedge trunks with it, but it's
>>> on its last leg. Hmm, what to replace it with...maybe a
>>> chainsaw-on-a-pole.
>>
>> Ummmmm... hey Larry - if your bar is that broken that it traverses a
>> 7" arc, then it's a no brainer - it's junk. At least the bar is.
>> This one is too obvious to even spend time talking about...
>
> No, it's the plastic housing, or what's left of it, which is allowing
> the bar/chain/adjuster assembly to move around. What has amazed me is
> that it hasn't come off and self-destructed. It still cuts wood! And
> yes, I was quite careful and haven't used it again. I hope to replace
> it tomorrow, but I only use it once or twice a season. This was the
> second time this Spring.

I didn't notice your last comment in your first post until just now Larry.
I just bought a chainsaw on a pole this year. I have lots of branches to
prune around our yard since we live in the woods. Finally broke down and
bought one of the chainsaw pruner attachements for my string trimmer. Quite
impressive in what it will do. Sure does beat setting up a ladder and
hauling a chainsaw up to prune. I can get around 12' of reach with this and
that's enough to get most of what I'm usually after. Got mine at the
factory reconditioned store for $49 - half the retail price.

stuart noble wrote:
>> Don't use many angle grinders do you? Regardless of the 10,000 RPM,
>> it still does not approach the speed of a simple circular saw or a
>> sawzall.
>
> My simple circular saw RPM is less than half that. Peripheral speed
> unknown though

You are correct - my error in the way I stated that. I meant to say it does
not approach the speed of the cut of a circular saw.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On May 16, 4:42=A0pm, stuart noble <[email protected]> wrote:
> John Rumm wrote:
> > Multiply by the blade circumference... so for a 190mm blade at 4500 rpm
> > that is 4500 x 0.19 x pi =3D 2686 m/sec

Heh-heh, blade tip travelling at beyond even rail gun projectile
hypersonic speed would be fun.

> I knew I could count on you :-)

RPS =3D 4500rpm / 60 =3D 75
Circumference is 2*Pi*R =3D 2 * 3.14 * 0.19/2 =3D 0.59m
Circumferential speed =3D 75 * 0.49 =3D 44m/sec.

At 4,500rpm you have almost 100 miles per hour. At 10,000rpm you have
200 miles per hour. Quite a few angle grinders run 12,000rpm, still
far below the sound barrier.

Due to the way an angle grinder is mechanically driven, stopping one
in motion as with a tree root will hurl the saw at speed. A chainsaw
will not do this hence eminently less dangeous than a freakin angle
grinder.

Alligator saw is expensive but handles both demolition & general
precise wood cutting, a jigsaw with a wood ripping blade is cheaper.

On Sun, 16 May 2010 09:07:00 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>js.b1 wrote:
>
>> On May 16, 4:26 am, "Mike Marlow" <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>> js.b1 wrote:
>>>> Diamond blade plus angle grinder on a treet stump killed someone
>>>> recently (kickback into neck). Suicidal.
>>>
>>> Bull. Diamond wheel on an angle grinder is the wrong combination,
>>> but not for that reason. Kickback has nothing to do with the wheel
>>> on the grinder,
>>
>> Fuckwit.
>
>Potty mouth.
>
>>
>> A diamond disc will not cut wood due to the mimimal depth of the
>> cutting surfaces, it will instead burn through whilst spinning at
>> circa 10,000 RPM.
>
>Don't use many angle grinders do you? Regardless of the 10,000 RPM, it
>still does not approach the speed of a simple circular saw or a sawzall.
>
>>
>> This is exactly how someone killed themselves with a diamond disc in
>> an angle grinder, it kicked back off a tree stump and embedded itself
>> in their neck severing an artery. Most likely a tabbed diamond disc
>> where the slots snagged on a particularly resilient group of wood
>> fibres so launching the grinder up into the victim's neck.
>
>It's clear you don't use an angle grinder much. Any wheel in an angle
>grinder is capable of kick back. All you have to do is contact the leading
>edge of the rotating wheel. To my point - it's not a matter of the wheel in
>use, it's a matter of where you contact it.
And MOST people who know enough to use the angle grinder safely would
also know enough, and have the equipment available, to use the right
tool for the job.

To safely act as a saw, a rotating tool should also have a "shoe",
like a circular saw.

And it's not the RPM that counts, it's the surface (cutting) speed. A
5" blade needs to run a LOT faster than a 10" blade to give the same
cutting speed, or to have the same danger of throwing a tip

js.b1 wrote:

> Diamond blade plus angle grinder on a treet stump killed someone
> recently (kickback into neck). Suicidal.

Bull. Diamond wheel on an angle grinder is the wrong combination, but not
for that reason. Kickback has nothing to do with the wheel on the grinder,
but instead has everything to do with where on contacts the wheel.
Suicidal? Not at all. One stupid move on the part of a user does not make
a tool suicidal.

>
> You can use a cheap jigsaw with wood ripping blade if you cut them
> over a table. Very quick unless stuff is >2in thick.
> You can use a reciprocating saw - like a normal handsaw but two blades
> driven like hedge trimmer blades, but they cost somewhat more (better
> for chopping thro old studwork).

A reciprocating saw more typically just has one blade that simply, well...
reciprocates.

>
> I would not suggest even a handheld circular because of the risk - you
> are working "sloppy-fast" which could result in kickback or accidents.
> The jigsaw would probably be best for thin cladding (shiplap etc), a
> lot quicker than you realise.

It's fairly difficult to develop kickback with a circular saw. Not
impossible, but not easy. A circular saw would make a good choice for
materials 1/2" and up. Below that, I'd probably just break the stuff over
my knee...

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On Sun, 16 May 2010 14:48:43 +0100, stuart noble
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
>> Don't use many angle grinders do you? Regardless of the 10,000 RPM, it
>> still does not approach the speed of a simple circular saw or a sawzall.
>>
>
>My simple circular saw RPM is less than half that. Peripheral speed
>unknown though
Just checked a couple saws. One, a 6.5" runs 3700RPM for a cutting
speed of 6269sfpm.
Another, 7.25" @ 5000 rpm for 9490sfpm.
a 5" grinder @10,000 rpm is 13090 sfpm -

john hamilton wrote:
> Novice has small angle grinder (takes discs 115 mm with central hole
> diameter 22mm). The discs i've already got for it are for grinding tiles and
> metal.
>
> Having knocked down a very old cedar garden shed, I want to cut up all the
> wood. I'm wondering if i buy one of the diamond discs available for it,
> whether that would be reasonably ok for cutting wood with? I cannot find
> any discs that are said to be specifially for wood for this type of angle
> grinder.
>
> Some of the shed cladding wood is very thin (with nails all over the place)
> so i think the usual circular saw for wood would be a bit too hefty and
> vigourous on this thin wood of the shed. Grateful for any suggestions on
> the best type of circular disc to go for. Thanks.
>
>
Came across a leaflet in local builders merchant this morning that
reminded me of this thread.

Would this do what you want?

http://www.duro-diamonds.com/l-gb/diamond-tipped-cutting-tool.asp?p=13

No idea of the price and I think the smallest blade is 125mm so may not
be any good to you.

But they look interesting. Has anyone used one?

Andrew

Lobby Dosser wrote:
> "js.b1" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:6863dc6b-de32-420d-acbd-86e29fdf5309@i31g2000vbt.googlegroups.com...
> On May 16, 4:42 pm, stuart noble <[email protected]> wrote:
>> John Rumm wrote:
>>> Multiply by the blade circumference... so for a 190mm blade at 4500
>>> rpm that is 4500 x 0.19 x pi = 2686 m/sec
>
> Heh-heh, blade tip travelling at beyond even rail gun projectile
> hypersonic speed would be fun.
>
>> I knew I could count on you :-)
>
> RPS = 4500rpm / 60 = 75
> Circumference is 2*Pi*R = 2 * 3.14 * 0.19/2 = 0.59m
> Circumferential speed = 75 * 0.49 = 44m/sec.
>
> At 4,500rpm you have almost 100 miles per hour. At 10,000rpm you have
> 200 miles per hour. Quite a few angle grinders run 12,000rpm, still
> far below the sound barrier.
>
> Due to the way an angle grinder is mechanically driven, stopping one
> in motion as with a tree root will hurl the saw at speed. A chainsaw
> will not do this hence eminently less dangeous than a freakin angle
> grinder.
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> A chain saw Can kick back. Hence the use of face shield and helmet
> when using one.

Chain saws will most certainly kick back - as Lobby says. Very violently in
fact. The face shield and helmet are of no value if they do kidk back that
hard - they'll just disappear in the blood splatter. Face shields and
helmets are useful for lesser flying debris but they sure as hell won't stop
a chain coming at your head. Regardless - not only will chainsaws kick
back - they are very well known for this capability. Evidence that the
previous poster knows nothing at all about using chainsaws - and all the
reason to ignore his comments.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

Larry Jaques wrote:

>
> My 2-decade old Remington chainsaw nearly bit the dust last week when
> I let a rental worker (needed an extra body for digging out those
> pampas grass clusters) use it. It had been cracked already, but the
> bar and chain now bounce around a 7" arc at the tip. It still works,
> and I cut down 2 dozen hedge trunks with it, but it's on its last leg.
> Hmm, what to replace it with...maybe a chainsaw-on-a-pole.

Ummmmm... hey Larry - if your bar is that broken that it traverses a 7" arc,
then it's a no brainer - it's junk. At least the bar is. This one is too
obvious to even spend time talking about...

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

Diamond blade plus angle grinder on a treet stump killed someone
recently (kickback into neck). Suicidal.

You can use a cheap jigsaw with wood ripping blade if you cut them
over a table. Very quick unless stuff is >2in thick.
You can use a reciprocating saw - like a normal handsaw but two blades
driven like hedge trimmer blades, but they cost somewhat more (better
for chopping thro old studwork).

I would not suggest even a handheld circular because of the risk - you
are working "sloppy-fast" which could result in kickback or accidents.
The jigsaw would probably be best for thin cladding (shiplap etc), a
lot quicker than you realise.

aemeijers wrote:

> john hamilton wrote:
>> Novice has small angle grinder (takes discs 115 mm with central hole
>> diameter 22mm). The discs i've already got for it are for grinding tiles
>> and metal.
>>
>> Having knocked down a very old cedar garden shed, I want to cut up all
>> the wood. I'm wondering if i buy one of the diamond discs available for
>> it,
>> whether that would be reasonably ok for cutting wood with? I cannot find
>> any discs that are said to be specifially for wood for this type of angle
>> grinder.
>>
>> Some of the shed cladding wood is very thin (with nails all over the
>> place) so i think the usual circular saw for wood would be a bit too
>> hefty and
>> vigourous on this thin wood of the shed. Grateful for any suggestions
>> on
>> the best type of circular disc to go for. Thanks.
>>
>>
> I see by your message headers you seem to be in the UK. Here in the
> states we have something called 'Harbor Freight' that sells low-end
> (mainly Chinese) power tools at very low prices. They aren't any good
> for fine woodworking, but for something like this they would be more
> than adequate. Search online, in your local phone book, or in the
> second-tier shopping centers near where you live. Odds are there is
> something like that over there. What you need is a reciprocating saw
> with a demolition blade. It is one long blade (not two, like the other
> post implied), that goes back and forth like a handsaw. It would make
> short work of your pile of salvage lumber. You are trying to salvage it,
> right? If this is just for burning, a plain axe will do what you need,
> or even a plain handsaw.
>
> The reciprocating saw likely would have made the demolition process a
> lot less painful, as well. I only use mine once a year or so, but for
> certain jobs, it is a lifesaver.
>

What he said. I had to replace my evaporative cooler and got a
reciprocating saw to cut up the old one. I looked at Harbor Freight and
decided that going with a good Milwaukee Sawzall was going to be more cost
effective in the long run. It doesn't cut pretty, but it is quick and
effective at reducing large pieces of junk to small pieces of junk.



--

There is never a situation where having more rounds is a disadvantage

Rob Leatham

Mike Marlow wrote:
> js.b1 wrote:
>
>> Diamond blade plus angle grinder on a treet stump killed someone
>> recently (kickback into neck). Suicidal.
>
> Bull. Diamond wheel on an angle grinder is the wrong combination,
> but not for that reason. Kickback has nothing to do with the wheel
> on the grinder, but instead has everything to do with where on
> contacts the wheel. Suicidal? Not at all. One stupid move on the
> part of a user does not make a tool suicidal.

More like homicidal then. You wouldn't get me within 10' of one. Madness.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

>----------------------------------------------
>>
>> A chain saw Can kick back. Hence the use of face shield and helmet
>> when using one.
>
>Chain saws will most certainly kick back - as Lobby says. Very violently in
>fact. The face shield and helmet are of no value if they do kidk back that
>hard - they'll just disappear in the blood splatter. Face shields and
>helmets are useful for lesser flying debris but they sure as hell won't stop
>a chain coming at your head. Regardless - not only will chainsaws kick
>back - they are very well known for this capability. Evidence that the
>previous poster knows nothing at all about using chainsaws - and all the
>reason to ignore his comments.
>

And you would not want your nice sharp chainsaw blade to be anywhere
near grit, earth, and any bit of wood with a nasty nail therein;!...
--
Tony Sayer

DanG wrote:
> Your mind is made up so I know this is a waste of time. Your wild
> ass statement about a diamond blade kicking back and cutting a
> man's neck is pure hyperbola, fiction, and prevarication. A
> diamond blade would be very hard pressed to cut your hand if you
> ran it into your hand at full speed. They do an excellent job
> cutting really hard things like glass and tile, they really suck
> on anything else.

It wasn't a diamond blade
http://www.metro.co.uk/news/627085-man-killed-by-improvised-power-tool


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

diamond will absolutely NOT be any good whatsoever in wood.

If it's so thin, just snap it over your knee. If you can't snap
it over your knee, you need a circular saw and carbide blade. You
could use a jig saw or reciprocating saw if that was something you
already had. There are wood cutting blades for offset grinders,
but they are VERY dangerous unless you are well versed in their
use and even then can really hurt you - I would NOT suggest one.

--
______________________________
Keep the whole world singing . . . .
DanG (remove the sevens)
[email protected]



"john hamilton" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Novice has small angle grinder (takes discs 115 mm with central
> hole diameter 22mm). The discs i've already got for it are for
> grinding tiles and metal.
>
> Having knocked down a very old cedar garden shed, I want to cut
> up all the wood. I'm wondering if i buy one of the diamond discs
> available for it, whether that would be reasonably ok for
> cutting wood with? I cannot find any discs that are said to be
> specifially for wood for this type of angle grinder.
>
> Some of the shed cladding wood is very thin (with nails all over
> the place) so i think the usual circular saw for wood would be a
> bit too hefty and vigourous on this thin wood of the shed.
> Grateful for any suggestions on the best type of circular disc
> to go for. Thanks.
>

Your mind is made up so I know this is a waste of time. Your wild
ass statement about a diamond blade kicking back and cutting a
man's neck is pure hyperbola, fiction, and prevarication. A
diamond blade would be very hard pressed to cut your hand if you
ran it into your hand at full speed. They do an excellent job
cutting really hard things like glass and tile, they really suck
on anything else.

I have no idea what an alligator saw is. I've been in the
commercial contracting business for over 50 years so please
enlighten me as I may need one some day.

You may not be strong enough to hang onto a grinder when the blade
hits something, be it a tree root or whatever, but I sure as hell
am and have done so, though that is NOT the object when using the
tool.

The reason most us have said to not use the grinder with a blade
has much more to do with the OP's opening line which said that he
was not experienced. Let it alone.

I really hate it when people babble and pontificate about things
of which they have no experience. If you have information or
experience to share, have at: otherwise, sit back and listen
(read).

--
______________________________
Keep the whole world singing . . . .
DanG (remove the sevens)
[email protected]



"js.b1" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:6863dc6b-de32-420d-acbd-86e29fdf5309@i31g2000vbt.googlegroups.com...
On May 16, 4:42 pm, stuart noble <[email protected]>
wrote:
> John Rumm wrote:
> > Multiply by the blade circumference... so for a 190mm blade at
> > 4500 rpm
> > that is 4500 x 0.19 x pi = 2686 m/sec

Heh-heh, blade tip travelling at beyond even rail gun projectile
hypersonic speed would be fun.

> I knew I could count on you :-)

RPS = 4500rpm / 60 = 75
Circumference is 2*Pi*R = 2 * 3.14 * 0.19/2 = 0.59m
Circumferential speed = 75 * 0.49 = 44m/sec.

At 4,500rpm you have almost 100 miles per hour. At 10,000rpm you
have
200 miles per hour. Quite a few angle grinders run 12,000rpm,
still
far below the sound barrier.

Due to the way an angle grinder is mechanically driven, stopping
one
in motion as with a tree root will hurl the saw at speed. A
chainsaw
will not do this hence eminently less dangeous than a freakin
angle
grinder.

Alligator saw is expensive but handles both demolition & general
precise wood cutting, a jigsaw with a wood ripping blade is
cheaper.

On 18/05/2010 19:02, Alan Braggins wrote:
> In article<[email protected]>, John Rumm wrote:
>>>
>>> http://www.amazon.com/Black-Decker-LP1000-Alligator-Electric/dp/B000BANMUY/ref=pd_sim_hi_7
>>
>> That's what Andy D mentioned a few posts up this thread - they are very
>> good for pruning etc. Not the same as the other DeWalt Alligator saw
>> mentioned before... just to add to the confusion!
>
> For added confusion, Black and Decker used to sell a two bladed
> reciprocating saw like the De Walt that was also called "Alligator".
> They may even have been the same saw rebranded. See e.g.
> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/18-Black-Decker-Alligator-Saw-blades-DeWALT-DW390-/320529867339?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_Home_Garden_PowerTools_SM&hash=item4aa111a24b

Not too surprising since DeWalt are owned by B&D these days... (as are Elu)

--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/

[email protected] wrote:
> On Sun, 16 May 2010 09:35:11 +0100, Harry Bloomfield
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> spamlet has brought this to us :
>>> I also did almost buy a reciprocating saw in either Aldi of Lidl when they
>>> were going v cheap last year. At the time though, I thought I'd always be
>>> fit enough to use hand saws...
>> The reciprocating saw will fit and cut, where you cannot possibly get a
>> hand saw into. I have found mine to be particularly useful for cutting
>> tree roots, whilst still buried in the ground.
> With the right blade the sawzall will cut just about anything, just
> about anywhere.
> And unlike the cheap clones, it will do it decade after decade.

Valid, but only relevant if you are making money with it, or use it a
LOT. For occasional users like me, a cheap knockoff like my B&D corded
that I bought almost new at a garage sale for 20? bucks, is probably
more than sufficient. It probably wouldn't last a month on an active
jobsite, but at a dozen or so cuts a year, it will outlast me.

Don't get me wrong- Milwaukee tools (at least the pro-grade they used to
sell at the supply houses- never looked at the big-box versions) are
great, but for those of us with limited demands and a limited budget,
they are overkill. Like buying Snap-on wrenches to change the lawnmower
sparkplug once a year.

--
aem sends...

john hamilton wrote:
> Novice has small angle grinder (takes discs 115 mm with central hole
> diameter 22mm). The discs i've already got for it are for grinding tiles and
> metal.
>
> Having knocked down a very old cedar garden shed, I want to cut up all the
> wood. I'm wondering if i buy one of the diamond discs available for it,
> whether that would be reasonably ok for cutting wood with? I cannot find
> any discs that are said to be specifially for wood for this type of angle
> grinder.
>
> Some of the shed cladding wood is very thin (with nails all over the place)
> so i think the usual circular saw for wood would be a bit too hefty and
> vigourous on this thin wood of the shed. Grateful for any suggestions on
> the best type of circular disc to go for. Thanks.
>
>
I see by your message headers you seem to be in the UK. Here in the
states we have something called 'Harbor Freight' that sells low-end
(mainly Chinese) power tools at very low prices. They aren't any good
for fine woodworking, but for something like this they would be more
than adequate. Search online, in your local phone book, or in the
second-tier shopping centers near where you live. Odds are there is
something like that over there. What you need is a reciprocating saw
with a demolition blade. It is one long blade (not two, like the other
post implied), that goes back and forth like a handsaw. It would make
short work of your pile of salvage lumber. You are trying to salvage it,
right? If this is just for burning, a plain axe will do what you need,
or even a plain handsaw.

The reciprocating saw likely would have made the demolition process a
lot less painful, as well. I only use mine once a year or so, but for
certain jobs, it is a lifesaver.

--
aem sends...

"Tim Watts" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 15/05/10 23:53, Jim Yanik wrote:
>> Tim Watts<[email protected]> wrote in
>> news:[email protected]:
>>
>>> On 15/05/10 21:00, john hamilton wrote:
>>>> Novice has small angle grinder (takes discs 115 mm with
>>>> central hole
>>>> diameter 22mm). The discs i've already got for it are for
>>>> grinding
>>>> tiles and metal.
>>>>
>>>> Having knocked down a very old cedar garden shed, I want to
>>>> cut up
>>>> all the wood. I'm wondering if i buy one of the diamond discs
>>>> available for it, whether that would be reasonably ok for
>>>> cutting
>>>> wood with? I cannot find any discs that are said to be
>>>> specifially
>>>> for wood for this type of angle grinder.
>>>>
>>>> Some of the shed cladding wood is very thin (with nails all
>>>> over the
>>>> place) so i think the usual circular saw for wood would be a
>>>> bit too
>>>> hefty and vigourous on this thin wood of the shed. Grateful
>>>> for any
>>>> suggestions on the best type of circular disc to go for.
>>>> Thanks.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> I saw some discs in Alsford Timber the other day that were
>>> available
>>> in 9" and 12" (might have been a 4-odd inch too) that were
>>> advertised
>>> for wood, especially tree roots. They had some almighty lumps
>>> (1/8-1/4") of abrasive (maybe carbide) suck on the side.
>>> Looked
>>> bloody viscous - sadly I can't remember the name.
>>>
>>> A google for angle grinder and tree roots might turn up
>>> something...
>>> Or ring Alsfords in Hastings (assuming you're in the UK) and
>>> ask them
>>> what those bastard evil discs on the front counter in the
>>> display
>>> stand are called...
>>>
>>
>> diamond discs would gum up from resins and overheat quickly.
>> They are made for ceramics and metals,not wood.
>>
>
> It wasn't a diamond disc - very clearly nothing like one to the
> eye - in fact I've never seen anything like it before...
>
> --
> Tim Watts
>
> Hung parliament? Rather have a hanged parliament.

I've seen 4" blades for angle grinders that incorporate a chainsaw
chain. They're used for coarse shaping for carvings. In fact, I
saw one in use making a totem pole in Alaska and it really worked
well.

I also have seen a 4" disk with extremely coarse carbide crystals
on it, but it was for use in an oscillating saw that just looked
like an angle grinder, and was used more for sanding than for
cutting.

--
Nonny
On most days,
it's just not worth
the effort of chewing
through the restraints..

John Rumm wrote:
> On 16/05/2010 14:48, stuart noble wrote:
>>
>>> Don't use many angle grinders do you? Regardless of the 10,000 RPM, it
>>> still does not approach the speed of a simple circular saw or a sawzall.
>>>
>>
>> My simple circular saw RPM is less than half that. Peripheral speed
>> unknown though
>
> Multiply by the blade circumference... so for a 190mm blade at 4500 rpm
> that is 4500 x 0.19 x pi = 2686 m/sec
>

I knew I could count on you :-)

"js.b1" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Diamond blade plus angle grinder on a treet stump killed someone
> recently (kickback into neck). Suicidal.
>
> You can use a cheap jigsaw with wood ripping blade if you cut them
> over a table. Very quick unless stuff is >2in thick.
> You can use a reciprocating saw - like a normal handsaw but two blades
> driven like hedge trimmer blades, but they cost somewhat more (better
> for chopping thro old studwork).
>
> I would not suggest even a handheld circular because of the risk - you
> are working "sloppy-fast" which could result in kickback or accidents.
> The jigsaw would probably be best for thin cladding (shiplap etc), a
> lot quicker than you realise.

I have a very cheap Wilkinson's 'Swallow' jigsaw which came with a good
selection of blades. After making up maybe 20' of fence going up a steep
slope, from old rescued fence boards of all different lengths, I was amazed
at how easy it was to put a nice profile right along the top using one of
the longer coarsish blades. Should be fine for your shed.

I also did almost buy a reciprocating saw in either Aldi of Lidl when they
were going v cheap last year. At the time though, I thought I'd always be
fit enough to use hand saws...

S

In article <[email protected]>, Harry
Bloomfield <[email protected]> scribeth thus
>spamlet has brought this to us :
>> I also did almost buy a reciprocating saw in either Aldi of Lidl when they
>> were going v cheap last year. At the time though, I thought I'd always be
>> fit enough to use hand saws...
>
>The reciprocating saw will fit and cut, where you cannot possibly get a
>hand saw into. I have found mine to be particularly useful for cutting
>tree roots, whilst still buried in the ground.
>

Bet you go thru the blades doing that;!...

Which one have U got?..


73's
--
Tony Sayer

Harry Bloomfield wrote:
> tony sayer presented the following explanation :
>> In article <[email protected]>, Harry
>> Bloomfield <[email protected]> scribeth thus
>>> spamlet has brought this to us :
>>>> I also did almost buy a reciprocating saw in either Aldi of Lidl
>>>> when they were going v cheap last year. At the time though, I
>>>> thought I'd always be fit enough to use hand saws...
>>>
>>> The reciprocating saw will fit and cut, where you cannot possibly get
>>> a hand saw into. I have found mine to be particularly useful for
>>> cutting tree roots, whilst still buried in the ground.
>>>
>>
>> Bet you go thru the blades doing that;!...
>
> No, none have worn out yet. I've managed to cut 12" trees down with it,
> lots of roots and cut 4" alloy bar stock.

What's the travel like on the blades of those saws? I certainly have a
need for a rough'n ready powered saw for that sort of use, but had
always thought they looked a bit too small, and Alligator-types were a
bit OTT/out of my price range. But taking out a 12" tree sounds
reasonably impressive...

David

On 16/05/2010 14:48, stuart noble wrote:
>
>> Don't use many angle grinders do you? Regardless of the 10,000 RPM, it
>> still does not approach the speed of a simple circular saw or a sawzall.
>>
>
> My simple circular saw RPM is less than half that. Peripheral speed
> unknown though

Multiply by the blade circumference... so for a 190mm blade at 4500 rpm
that is 4500 x 0.19 x pi = 2686 m/sec

--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/

Tim Watts <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> On 15/05/10 21:00, john hamilton wrote:
>> Novice has small angle grinder (takes discs 115 mm with central hole
>> diameter 22mm). The discs i've already got for it are for grinding
>> tiles and metal.
>>
>> Having knocked down a very old cedar garden shed, I want to cut up
>> all the wood. I'm wondering if i buy one of the diamond discs
>> available for it, whether that would be reasonably ok for cutting
>> wood with? I cannot find any discs that are said to be specifially
>> for wood for this type of angle grinder.
>>
>> Some of the shed cladding wood is very thin (with nails all over the
>> place) so i think the usual circular saw for wood would be a bit too
>> hefty and vigourous on this thin wood of the shed. Grateful for any
>> suggestions on the best type of circular disc to go for. Thanks.
>>
>>
>
> I saw some discs in Alsford Timber the other day that were available
> in 9" and 12" (might have been a 4-odd inch too) that were advertised
> for wood, especially tree roots. They had some almighty lumps
> (1/8-1/4") of abrasive (maybe carbide) suck on the side. Looked
> bloody viscous - sadly I can't remember the name.
>
> A google for angle grinder and tree roots might turn up something...
> Or ring Alsfords in Hastings (assuming you're in the UK) and ask them
> what those bastard evil discs on the front counter in the display
> stand are called...
>

diamond discs would gum up from resins and overheat quickly.
They are made for ceramics and metals,not wood.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com

On May 15, 4:00=A0pm, "john hamilton" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Novice has small angle grinder (takes discs 115 mm with central hole
> diameter 22mm). The discs i've already got for it are for grinding tiles =
and
> metal.
>
> Having knocked down a very old cedar garden shed, I want to cut up all th=
e
> wood. I'm wondering if i buy one of the diamond discs available for it,
> whether that would be reasonably ok for cutting wood with? =A0I cannot fi=
nd
> any discs that are said to be specifially for wood for this type of angle
> grinder.

Coarse aluminum oxide. Diamond costs more, but doesn't
cut any better. Save it for hard materials that won't clog wheels,
like concrete or tile.

On May 15, 10:03=A0pm, aemeijers <[email protected]> wrote:
> What you need is a reciprocating saw with a demolition blade.
> It is one long blade (not two, like the other post implied),
> that goes back and forth like a handsaw.

I think there are 2 types...
- Alligator saw - double blades like a hedge trimmer
- Demolition saw - single blade that just pumps away

Unsure which is cheaper, but more search strings :-)

Alligator saws are more useful for general cutting.
Demolition saws, well they are certainly good at that.

On Sun, 16 May 2010 20:28:16 +0100, Harry Bloomfield
<[email protected]> wrote the following:

>Lobster formulated on Sunday :
>> What's the travel like on the blades of those saws? I certainly have a need
>> for a rough'n ready powered saw for that sort of use, but had always thought
>> they looked a bit too small, and Alligator-types were a bit OTT/out of my
>> price range. But taking out a 12" tree sounds reasonably impressive...
>
>Travel is about 2" and the blade was 9" long, so I had to cut from
>three sides to get all the way through.

All three sides of that round tree, Harry? <chortle>

My 2-decade old Remington chainsaw nearly bit the dust last week when
I let a rental worker (needed an extra body for digging out those
pampas grass clusters) use it. It had been cracked already, but the
bar and chain now bounce around a 7" arc at the tip. It still works,
and I cut down 2 dozen hedge trunks with it, but it's on its last leg.
Hmm, what to replace it with...maybe a chainsaw-on-a-pole.

--
Work and struggle and never accept an evil that you can change.
-- Andre Gide

John Rumm wrote:
>
> Rather than continuing the willy waving, perhaps we can agree that an
> angle grinder is not the tool for this job and leave it at that?
>


I think that is what most of the people who really understand angle grinders
have been saying.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On May 15, 4:16=A0pm, "[email protected]"
<[email protected]> wrote:
> On Sat, 15 May 2010 21:00:53 +0100, "john hamilton" <[email protected]=
id>
> wrote:
>
> >Novice has small angle grinder (takes discs 115 mm with central hole
> >diameter 22mm). The discs i've already got for it are for grinding tiles=
and
> >metal.
>
> >Having knocked down a very old cedar garden shed, I want to cut up all t=
he
> >wood. I'm wondering if i buy one of the diamond discs available for it,
> >whether that would be reasonably ok for cutting wood with? =A0I cannot f=
ind
> >any discs that are said to be specifially for wood for this type of angl=
e
> >grinder.
>
> No. =A0A grinder will more likely start the wood on fire than cut it. =A0=
There is
> good reason you don't find wood "blades" for an angle grinder. =A0It's
> absolutely the wrong tool for the job.

Part of the woodcarver's standard arsenal, used in conjunction
with a chainsaw. Regular coarse alox grinding wheels won't
start a fire.

On 15 May,

> Having knocked down a very old cedar garden shed, I want to cut up all the
> wood.

Not with an angle grinder!

I have one of the few wood cutters for an angle grinder - the
Arbortech disk. It's also just about the scariest power tool I use (I
refuse to use a Lancelot angle grinder disk) I've never seen a saw
blade for an angle grinder and wouldn't trust it at that speed anyway.

This is not a good idea.

On Sat, 15 May 2010 21:00:53 +0100, "john hamilton"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Novice has small angle grinder (takes discs 115 mm with central hole
>diameter 22mm). The discs i've already got for it are for grinding tiles and
>metal.
>
>Having knocked down a very old cedar garden shed, I want to cut up all the
>wood. I'm wondering if i buy one of the diamond discs available for it,
>whether that would be reasonably ok for cutting wood with? I cannot find
>any discs that are said to be specifially for wood for this type of angle
>grinder.
>
>Some of the shed cladding wood is very thin (with nails all over the place)
>so i think the usual circular saw for wood would be a bit too hefty and
>vigourous on this thin wood of the shed. Grateful for any suggestions on
>the best type of circular disc to go for. Thanks.
>

The best "circular disc" is the one on your "circular saw". It was
mentioned about using the right tool for the job.

Got a sharp axe, matches maybe?

On Sun, 16 May 2010 22:20:03 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
<[email protected]> wrote the following:

>Larry Jaques wrote:
>
>>
>> My 2-decade old Remington chainsaw nearly bit the dust last week when
>> I let a rental worker (needed an extra body for digging out those
>> pampas grass clusters) use it. It had been cracked already, but the
>> bar and chain now bounce around a 7" arc at the tip. It still works,
>> and I cut down 2 dozen hedge trunks with it, but it's on its last leg.
>> Hmm, what to replace it with...maybe a chainsaw-on-a-pole.
>
>Ummmmm... hey Larry - if your bar is that broken that it traverses a 7" arc,
>then it's a no brainer - it's junk. At least the bar is. This one is too
>obvious to even spend time talking about...

No, it's the plastic housing, or what's left of it, which is allowing
the bar/chain/adjuster assembly to move around. What has amazed me is
that it hasn't come off and self-destructed. It still cuts wood! And
yes, I was quite careful and haven't used it again. I hope to replace
it tomorrow, but I only use it once or twice a season. This was the
second time this Spring.

--
Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our
inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter
the state of facts and evidence. -- John Adams, December 1770
'Argument in Defense of the Soldiers in the Boston Massacre Trials'

On 17/05/2010 02:15, DanG wrote:

> Your mind is made up so I know this is a waste of time. Your wild
> ass statement about a diamond blade kicking back and cutting a
> man's neck is pure hyperbola, fiction, and prevarication. A

Hardly - a quick google will show that angle grinder fatalities are not
uncommon. In fact a builder died at a junior school local to me a few
years ago as a result of copping a diamond blade to the neck. He bled to
death on the scene in front of his son before medical help could get there.

Granted not all of these are the direct results of kickback as such -
but some form of loss of control of the tool or falling onto is
typically the cause.

> diamond blade would be very hard pressed to cut your hand if you
> ran it into your hand at full speed. They do an excellent job

There is good Makita safety video that quite nicely demonstrates the
common lower leg injuries that occur when a grinder with diamond blade
hits a typical bit of meat under clothing.

> cutting really hard things like glass and tile, they really suck
> on anything else.

Just because something is sub optimal for cutting flesh, does not mean
it won't.

> I have no idea what an alligator saw is. I've been in the
> commercial contracting business for over 50 years so please
> enlighten me as I may need one some day.

Its a reciprocating saw with twin counter moving blades.

http://www.dewalt.co.uk/powertools/productdetails/catno/DW390/

> You may not be strong enough to hang onto a grinder when the blade
> hits something, be it a tree root or whatever, but I sure as hell
> am and have done so, though that is NOT the object when using the
> tool.

Rather than continuing the willy waving, perhaps we can agree that an
angle grinder is not the tool for this job and leave it at that?

> The reason most us have said to not use the grinder with a blade
> has much more to do with the OP's opening line which said that he
> was not experienced. Let it alone.

> I really hate it when people babble and pontificate about things
> of which they have no experience. If you have information or
> experience to share, have at: otherwise, sit back and listen
> (read).

Perhaps you might care to review some of these: (Warning, some of these
are graphic)

http://www.head-face-med.com/content/4/1/1
http://www.sswahs.nsw.gov.au/liverpool/trauma/45m.html
http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/man-near-death-after-angle-grinder-accident/story-e6frfku0-1225820724743
http://www.citizen.co.za/index/article.aspx?pDesc=122382,1,22

--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/

On 15/05/2010 23:02, js.b1 wrote:
> On May 15, 10:03 pm, aemeijers<[email protected]> wrote:
>> What you need is a reciprocating saw with a demolition blade.
>> It is one long blade (not two, like the other post implied),
>> that goes back and forth like a handsaw.
>
> I think there are 2 types...
> - Alligator saw - double blades like a hedge trimmer
> - Demolition saw - single blade that just pumps away

There are a few variations:

http://www.diyfaq.org.uk/powertools/recipsaw.htm

> Unsure which is cheaper, but more search strings :-)

Standard recip saws are cheaper for the machine, and *much* cheaper for
the blades

> Alligator saws are more useful for general cutting.
> Demolition saws, well they are certainly good at that.


--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/

John Rumm wrote:
> On 16/05/2010 19:28, Lobster wrote:
>> Bruce wrote:
>>> On Sun, 16 May 2010 11:25:02 +0000 (UTC), [email protected]
>>> (Andrew Gabriel) wrote:
>>>> I have one of these on the shelf in the garage, but the drill gave up
>>>> (the day I just bought several new blades for it, of course).
>>>> It worked well for 10+ years, before dedicated circular saws were
>>>> available at affordable prices. B&D had a load of drill attachments
>>>> of that form. My father also had the circular saw one, but also the
>>>> jigsaw and the hedgecutter attachments (and probably some I've
>>>> forgotten).
>>
>> Somewhere I think I also still have the Vertical Drill Stand and the
>> Horizontal Drill Stand (aka bench-grinder conversion tool)!
>>
>>> My father had the B&D circular saw attachment and the finishing sander
>>> attachment. I inherited them and used them for a few years.
>>> When I finally got around to buying a Bosch circular saw, I wondered
>>> why on earth I had struggled on with the clunky B&D attachment.
>>
>> As Andrew alluded to, because of the prohibitive cost back then. I can
>> remember my parents buying their first (and only - Mum still has it!)
>> B&D drill in the early 70s. It was a 2-speed hammer job, and IIRC it
>> cost 30-40 GBP, which would be worth probably ten times that in todays
>> money. They certainly weren't a common part of people's household stuff
>> as they are today. Presumably other portable power tools must have been
>> similarly priced, accounting for the plethora of attachments you used to
>> buy for them. God it was a PITA always swapping them over though!
>
> I recall my mother buying a B&D suitcase in the early 80's, that came
> with a 2 speed hammer drill and a bunch of accessories. Cost was £84
> IIRC from Argos (or possibly the catalogue shop that preceded it. These
> included the circular saw that got a fair bit of use (but with hindsight
> was pretty poor!), an orbital sander (not too bad), and a jigsaw (had
> the ergonomics of a pissed off octopus!) The drill itself is still
> going... although it gets little use these days.
>

Wow- portable power tools for home use seemingly took a long winding
road in UK. (Maybe because of the different power?) All those tools you
described were available at realistic prices in the states by late 60s
early 70s- as stand-alone tools, not a 'Transformer' kit. Most homes
that had even a rudimentary workbench had a 3/8" drill, a small saber
saw, and a cheap circular saw. Sanders and such were usually only
purchased if the Mrs. was into furniture refinishing or something. This
was stuff for repairs and backyard construction of kid-stuff, not for
fine cabinetry.

Of course, my experience may be atypical- I grew up in a construction
company, and most of the kids I hung out with had fathers known to have
swung a hammer or two in their day.

--
aem sends...

On Sun, 16 May 2010 13:20:40 -0400, aemeijers <[email protected]>
wrote:

>[email protected] wrote:
>> On Sun, 16 May 2010 09:35:11 +0100, Harry Bloomfield
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> spamlet has brought this to us :
>>>> I also did almost buy a reciprocating saw in either Aldi of Lidl when they
>>>> were going v cheap last year. At the time though, I thought I'd always be
>>>> fit enough to use hand saws...
>>> The reciprocating saw will fit and cut, where you cannot possibly get a
>>> hand saw into. I have found mine to be particularly useful for cutting
>>> tree roots, whilst still buried in the ground.
>> With the right blade the sawzall will cut just about anything, just
>> about anywhere.
>> And unlike the cheap clones, it will do it decade after decade.
>
>Valid, but only relevant if you are making money with it, or use it a
>LOT. For occasional users like me, a cheap knockoff like my B&D corded
>that I bought almost new at a garage sale for 20? bucks, is probably
>more than sufficient. It probably wouldn't last a month on an active
>jobsite, but at a dozen or so cuts a year, it will outlast me.

My Millwaukee Sawzall cost me $15.00. Got it for nothing and bought
the part that had worn out and fixed it. With the cheap ones, when
they quit they are DONE because generally parts are unavailable.
>
>Don't get me wrong- Milwaukee tools (at least the pro-grade they used to
>sell at the supply houses- never looked at the big-box versions) are
>great, but for those of us with limited demands and a limited budget,
>they are overkill. Like buying Snap-on wrenches to change the lawnmower
>sparkplug once a year.

On Sat, 15 May 2010 15:16:35 -0500, "[email protected]"
<[email protected]> wrote the following:

>On Sat, 15 May 2010 21:00:53 +0100, "john hamilton" <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>
>>Novice has small angle grinder (takes discs 115 mm with central hole
>>diameter 22mm). The discs i've already got for it are for grinding tiles and
>>metal.
>>
>>Having knocked down a very old cedar garden shed, I want to cut up all the
>>wood. I'm wondering if i buy one of the diamond discs available for it,
>>whether that would be reasonably ok for cutting wood with? I cannot find
>>any discs that are said to be specifially for wood for this type of angle
>>grinder.
>
>No. A grinder will more likely start the wood on fire than cut it. There is
>good reason you don't find wood "blades" for an angle grinder. It's
>absolutely the wrong tool for the job.

Tell that to Arbortech and King Arthur Tools. They sell carbide
carving discs and rotary chain saw heads for angle grinders. <g>


>>Some of the shed cladding wood is very thin (with nails all over the place)
>>so i think the usual circular saw for wood would be a bit too hefty and
>>vigourous on this thin wood of the shed. Grateful for any suggestions on
>>the best type of circular disc to go for. Thanks.
>
>A circular saw will work fine. Be careful with nails, though. A circular saw
>will cut them (as long as you don't care about the blade) but it might throw
>them too. Wear *lots* of protection. A "Sawsall" (reciprocating saw) is a
>better tool for the job, though.

Yeah, carbide circular saw or demolition-bladed sawzall are the way to
go.

--
Work and struggle and never accept an evil that you can change.
-- Andre Gide

On Sun, 16 May 2010 23:28:22 +0100, John Rumm
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On 16/05/2010 22:07, Jim Elbrecht wrote:
>> On Sun, 16 May 2010 21:42:40 +0100, John Rumm
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> On 15/05/2010 23:02, js.b1 wrote:
>>>> On May 15, 10:03 pm, aemeijers<[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>> What you need is a reciprocating saw with a demolition blade.
>>>>> It is one long blade (not two, like the other post implied),
>>>>> that goes back and forth like a handsaw.
>>>>
>>>> I think there are 2 types...
>>>> - Alligator saw - double blades like a hedge trimmer
>>>> - Demolition saw - single blade that just pumps away
>>>
>>> There are a few variations:
>>>
>>> http://www.diyfaq.org.uk/powertools/recipsaw.htm
>>>
>>
>> Checked out that page and have even more tool-envy. I've never seen
>> a Scorpion saw in the US, either.<g> [and searches of B& D's US site
>> don't show it]
>
>Ah, well I *had* one of those. Took me ages to find someone to give it
>away too! ;-)
>
>A bit like:
>
>http://www.amazon.co.uk/Black-Decker-KS890ECN-Scorpion-Saw/dp/B00032II4A

Only in England you say???
Pity!! (NOT)
>
>They seem to be very popular, but I can't understand why! I can only
>assume they are bought by infrequent DIYers who have not had the chance
>to use a proper recip saw or a decent jigsaw.
>
>They have a very short stroke, and fairly fine teeth so cut very slowly.
>They use B&D single source blades that are expensive. They vibrate
>excessively. The larger saw looking blade tends to set up side to side
>vibration so much that the end tends to hack a wide trench out of the
>wood rather than cutting it. It has a jigsaw mode where it behaves just
>like the worst jigsaw you have ever used only not as well.

On 15/05/10 21:00, john hamilton wrote:
> Novice has small angle grinder (takes discs 115 mm with central hole
> diameter 22mm). The discs i've already got for it are for grinding tiles and
> metal.
>
> Having knocked down a very old cedar garden shed, I want to cut up all the
> wood. I'm wondering if i buy one of the diamond discs available for it,
> whether that would be reasonably ok for cutting wood with? I cannot find
> any discs that are said to be specifially for wood for this type of angle
> grinder.
>
> Some of the shed cladding wood is very thin (with nails all over the place)
> so i think the usual circular saw for wood would be a bit too hefty and
> vigourous on this thin wood of the shed. Grateful for any suggestions on
> the best type of circular disc to go for. Thanks.
>
>

I saw some discs in Alsford Timber the other day that were available in
9" and 12" (might have been a 4-odd inch too) that were advertised for
wood, especially tree roots. They had some almighty lumps (1/8-1/4") of
abrasive (maybe carbide) suck on the side. Looked bloody viscous - sadly
I can't remember the name.

A google for angle grinder and tree roots might turn up something... Or
ring Alsfords in Hastings (assuming you're in the UK) and ask them what
those bastard evil discs on the front counter in the display stand are
called...

--
Tim Watts

Hung parliament? Rather have a hanged parliament.

On 15/05/10 23:53, Jim Yanik wrote:
> Tim Watts<[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> On 15/05/10 21:00, john hamilton wrote:
>>> Novice has small angle grinder (takes discs 115 mm with central hole
>>> diameter 22mm). The discs i've already got for it are for grinding
>>> tiles and metal.
>>>
>>> Having knocked down a very old cedar garden shed, I want to cut up
>>> all the wood. I'm wondering if i buy one of the diamond discs
>>> available for it, whether that would be reasonably ok for cutting
>>> wood with? I cannot find any discs that are said to be specifially
>>> for wood for this type of angle grinder.
>>>
>>> Some of the shed cladding wood is very thin (with nails all over the
>>> place) so i think the usual circular saw for wood would be a bit too
>>> hefty and vigourous on this thin wood of the shed. Grateful for any
>>> suggestions on the best type of circular disc to go for. Thanks.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I saw some discs in Alsford Timber the other day that were available
>> in 9" and 12" (might have been a 4-odd inch too) that were advertised
>> for wood, especially tree roots. They had some almighty lumps
>> (1/8-1/4") of abrasive (maybe carbide) suck on the side. Looked
>> bloody viscous - sadly I can't remember the name.
>>
>> A google for angle grinder and tree roots might turn up something...
>> Or ring Alsfords in Hastings (assuming you're in the UK) and ask them
>> what those bastard evil discs on the front counter in the display
>> stand are called...
>>
>
> diamond discs would gum up from resins and overheat quickly.
> They are made for ceramics and metals,not wood.
>

It wasn't a diamond disc - very clearly nothing like one to the eye - in
fact I've never seen anything like it before...

--
Tim Watts

Hung parliament? Rather have a hanged parliament.

In article <[email protected]>,
stuart noble <[email protected]> writes:
> A sawblade has individual teeth is so that the debris from the material
> being cut can be thrown clear of the next tooth. If the blade cannot
> clear itself, there is just friction but no cutting.
> In the old days B&D used to do a 5" circular saw blade as a drill
> attachment. Can't imagine what it could have been used for, but at least
> it wasn't spinning at 10,000 rpm

I have one of these on the shelf in the garage, but the drill gave up
(the day I just bought several new blades for it, of course).
It worked well for 10+ years, before dedicated circular saws were
available at affordable prices. B&D had a load of drill attachments
of that form. My father also had the circular saw one, but also the
jigsaw and the hedgecutter attachments (and probably some I've
forgotten).

However, this brings up an important point... An angle grinder spins
much faster than the safe operating speed for a circular saw blade,
so don't even think about going there.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

Harry Bloomfield wrote:
> spamlet has brought this to us :
>> I also did almost buy a reciprocating saw in either Aldi of Lidl
>> when they were going v cheap last year. At the time though, I
>> thought I'd always be fit enough to use hand saws...
>
> The reciprocating saw will fit and cut, where you cannot possibly get
> a hand saw into. I have found mine to be particularly useful for
> cutting tree roots, whilst still buried in the ground.

And there's always harbor freight for a cheap source. Better than using an angle
grinder and having an accident.

"Harry Bloomfield" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...


> The blue black Aldi variable speed one. The spring which closes the lever
> for foot adjustment seems to have weakened (may just be choked up with saw
> dust), other than that it works well.

I have an even cheaper PPro one I bought in a clearance and it does roots
really well.
It says maximum cut 100mm but it cuts anything the blade fits, I have some
10" green wood blades and it works fine.
For demolition I have some tungsten tipped blades and just cut through the
wood and metal.
The whole lot was ~£20.

Tim Watts wrote:

> I saw some discs in Alsford Timber the other day that were available in
> 9" and 12" (might have been a 4-odd inch too) that were advertised for
> wood, especially tree roots. They had some almighty lumps (1/8-1/4") of
> abrasive (maybe carbide) suck on the side. Looked bloody viscous

You definitely want a low-viscosity blade.

"js.b1" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:6863dc6b-de32-420d-acbd-86e29fdf5309@i31g2000vbt.googlegroups.com...
On May 16, 4:42 pm, stuart noble <[email protected]> wrote:
> John Rumm wrote:
> > Multiply by the blade circumference... so for a 190mm blade at 4500 rpm
> > that is 4500 x 0.19 x pi = 2686 m/sec

Heh-heh, blade tip travelling at beyond even rail gun projectile
hypersonic speed would be fun.

> I knew I could count on you :-)

RPS = 4500rpm / 60 = 75
Circumference is 2*Pi*R = 2 * 3.14 * 0.19/2 = 0.59m
Circumferential speed = 75 * 0.49 = 44m/sec.

At 4,500rpm you have almost 100 miles per hour. At 10,000rpm you have
200 miles per hour. Quite a few angle grinders run 12,000rpm, still
far below the sound barrier.

Due to the way an angle grinder is mechanically driven, stopping one
in motion as with a tree root will hurl the saw at speed. A chainsaw
will not do this hence eminently less dangeous than a freakin angle
grinder.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

A chain saw Can kick back. Hence the use of face shield and helmet when
using one.

"John Rumm" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 17/05/2010 02:15, DanG wrote:
>
>> Your mind is made up so I know this is a waste of time. Your wild
>> ass statement about a diamond blade kicking back and cutting a
>> man's neck is pure hyperbola, fiction, and prevarication. A
>
> Hardly - a quick google will show that angle grinder fatalities are not
> uncommon. In fact a builder died at a junior school local to me a few
> years ago as a result of copping a diamond blade to the neck. He bled to
> death on the scene in front of his son before medical help could get
> there.
>
> Granted not all of these are the direct results of kickback as such - but
> some form of loss of control of the tool or falling onto is typically the
> cause.
>
>> diamond blade would be very hard pressed to cut your hand if you
>> ran it into your hand at full speed. They do an excellent job
>
> There is good Makita safety video that quite nicely demonstrates the
> common lower leg injuries that occur when a grinder with diamond blade
> hits a typical bit of meat under clothing.
>
>> cutting really hard things like glass and tile, they really suck
>> on anything else.
>
> Just because something is sub optimal for cutting flesh, does not mean it
> won't.
>
>> I have no idea what an alligator saw is. I've been in the
>> commercial contracting business for over 50 years so please
>> enlighten me as I may need one some day.
>
> Its a reciprocating saw with twin counter moving blades.
>
> http://www.dewalt.co.uk/powertools/productdetails/catno/DW390/
>
>> You may not be strong enough to hang onto a grinder when the blade
>> hits something, be it a tree root or whatever, but I sure as hell
>> am and have done so, though that is NOT the object when using the
>> tool.
>
> Rather than continuing the willy waving, perhaps we can agree that an
> angle grinder is not the tool for this job and leave it at that?
>
>> The reason most us have said to not use the grinder with a blade
>> has much more to do with the OP's opening line which said that he
>> was not experienced. Let it alone.
>
>> I really hate it when people babble and pontificate about things
>> of which they have no experience. If you have information or
>> experience to share, have at: otherwise, sit back and listen
>> (read).
>
> Perhaps you might care to review some of these: (Warning, some of these
> are graphic)
>
> http://www.head-face-med.com/content/4/1/1
> http://www.sswahs.nsw.gov.au/liverpool/trauma/45m.html
> http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/man-near-death-after-angle-grinder-accident/story-e6frfku0-1225820724743
> http://www.citizen.co.za/index/article.aspx?pDesc=122382,1,22
>
> --

Here's one nearly done in by his digital video camera ..

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/8683750.stm

"Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Lobby Dosser wrote:
>> "js.b1" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:6863dc6b-de32-420d-acbd-86e29fdf5309@i31g2000vbt.googlegroups.com...
>> On May 16, 4:42 pm, stuart noble <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> John Rumm wrote:
>>>> Multiply by the blade circumference... so for a 190mm blade at 4500
>>>> rpm that is 4500 x 0.19 x pi = 2686 m/sec
>>
>> Heh-heh, blade tip travelling at beyond even rail gun projectile
>> hypersonic speed would be fun.
>>
>>> I knew I could count on you :-)
>>
>> RPS = 4500rpm / 60 = 75
>> Circumference is 2*Pi*R = 2 * 3.14 * 0.19/2 = 0.59m
>> Circumferential speed = 75 * 0.49 = 44m/sec.
>>
>> At 4,500rpm you have almost 100 miles per hour. At 10,000rpm you have
>> 200 miles per hour. Quite a few angle grinders run 12,000rpm, still
>> far below the sound barrier.
>>
>> Due to the way an angle grinder is mechanically driven, stopping one
>> in motion as with a tree root will hurl the saw at speed. A chainsaw
>> will not do this hence eminently less dangeous than a freakin angle
>> grinder.
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> A chain saw Can kick back. Hence the use of face shield and helmet
>> when using one.
>
> Chain saws will most certainly kick back - as Lobby says. Very violently
> in fact. The face shield and helmet are of no value if they do kidk back
> that hard - they'll just disappear in the blood splatter. Face shields
> and helmets are useful for lesser flying debris but they sure as hell
> won't stop a chain coming at your head. Regardless - not only will
> chainsaws kick back - they are very well known for this capability.
> Evidence that the previous poster knows nothing at all about using
> chainsaws - and all the reason to ignore his comments.

Didn't mean to imply that the face shield or helmet would stop a chain. They
might gain enough time for the chain brake to engage.

tony sayer wrote:
>> ----------------------------------------------
>>> A chain saw Can kick back. Hence the use of face shield and helmet
>>> when using one.
>> Chain saws will most certainly kick back - as Lobby says. Very violently in
>> fact. The face shield and helmet are of no value if they do kidk back that
>> hard - they'll just disappear in the blood splatter. Face shields and
>> helmets are useful for lesser flying debris but they sure as hell won't stop
>> a chain coming at your head. Regardless - not only will chainsaws kick
>> back - they are very well known for this capability. Evidence that the
>> previous poster knows nothing at all about using chainsaws - and all the
>> reason to ignore his comments.
>>
>
> And you would not want your nice sharp chainsaw blade to be anywhere
> near grit, earth, and any bit of wood with a nasty nail therein;!..


.
That's why you sharpen them regularly.

Oh and as far as kickbacks go, thats why you tend NOT to out your face
over the blade: Always you cut soo the swaw will kick over your shoulder.

As pointed out, the mask is not there to stop a saw blade. Flying chips
only.

"John Rumm" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 17/05/2010 04:34, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Sun, 16 May 2010 23:28:22 +0100, John Rumm
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> On 16/05/2010 22:07, Jim Elbrecht wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 16 May 2010 21:42:40 +0100, John Rumm
>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 15/05/2010 23:02, js.b1 wrote:
>>>>>> On May 15, 10:03 pm, aemeijers<[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>> What you need is a reciprocating saw with a demolition blade.
>>>>>>> It is one long blade (not two, like the other post implied),
>>>>>>> that goes back and forth like a handsaw.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think there are 2 types...
>>>>>> - Alligator saw - double blades like a hedge trimmer
>>>>>> - Demolition saw - single blade that just pumps away
>>>>>
>>>>> There are a few variations:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.diyfaq.org.uk/powertools/recipsaw.htm
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Checked out that page and have even more tool-envy. I've never seen
>>>> a Scorpion saw in the US, either.<g> [and searches of B& D's US
>>>> site
>>>> don't show it]
>>>
>>> Ah, well I *had* one of those. Took me ages to find someone to give it
>>> away too! ;-)
>>>
>>> A bit like:
>>>
>>> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Black-Decker-KS890ECN-Scorpion-Saw/dp/B00032II4A
>>
>> Only in England you say???
>> Pity!! (NOT)
>
> Now those you can get in the US, you lucky people!
>
> http://www.amazon.com/Black-Decker-PHS550B-Powered-Handsaw/dp/B000CA6FDY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1274096218&sr=8-1
>
> (although the blades are cheaper there - $8.50 vs about £12 ($17) here).
>
> --
> Cheers,
>
> John.

http://www.amazon.com/Black-Decker-LP1000-Alligator-Electric/dp/B000BANMUY/ref=pd_sim_hi_7

"John Rumm" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 18/05/2010 08:57, Lobby Dosser wrote:
>> "John Rumm" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> On 17/05/2010 04:34, [email protected] wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 16 May 2010 23:28:22 +0100, John Rumm
>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 16/05/2010 22:07, Jim Elbrecht wrote:
>>>>>> On Sun, 16 May 2010 21:42:40 +0100, John Rumm
>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 15/05/2010 23:02, js.b1 wrote:
>>>>>>>> On May 15, 10:03 pm, aemeijers<[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> What you need is a reciprocating saw with a demolition blade.
>>>>>>>>> It is one long blade (not two, like the other post implied),
>>>>>>>>> that goes back and forth like a handsaw.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I think there are 2 types...
>>>>>>>> - Alligator saw - double blades like a hedge trimmer
>>>>>>>> - Demolition saw - single blade that just pumps away
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There are a few variations:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.diyfaq.org.uk/powertools/recipsaw.htm
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Checked out that page and have even more tool-envy. I've never seen
>>>>>> a Scorpion saw in the US, either.<g> [and searches of B& D's US site
>>>>>> don't show it]
>>>>>
>>>>> Ah, well I *had* one of those. Took me ages to find someone to give it
>>>>> away too! ;-)
>>>>>
>>>>> A bit like:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Black-Decker-KS890ECN-Scorpion-Saw/dp/B00032II4A
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Only in England you say???
>>>> Pity!! (NOT)
>>>
>>> Now those you can get in the US, you lucky people!
>>>
>>> http://www.amazon.com/Black-Decker-PHS550B-Powered-Handsaw/dp/B000CA6FDY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1274096218&sr=8-1
>>>
>>>
>>> (although the blades are cheaper there - $8.50 vs about £12 ($17) here).
>>>
>>> --
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> John.
>>
>> http://www.amazon.com/Black-Decker-LP1000-Alligator-Electric/dp/B000BANMUY/ref=pd_sim_hi_7
>
> That's what Andy D mentioned a few posts up this thread - they are very
> good for pruning etc. Not the same as the other DeWalt Alligator saw
> mentioned before... just to add to the confusion!
>

Also looked like there might be some issues with them.

On Sun, 16 May 2010 09:35:11 +0100, Harry Bloomfield
<[email protected]> wrote:

>spamlet has brought this to us :
>> I also did almost buy a reciprocating saw in either Aldi of Lidl when they
>> were going v cheap last year. At the time though, I thought I'd always be
>> fit enough to use hand saws...
>
>The reciprocating saw will fit and cut, where you cannot possibly get a
>hand saw into. I have found mine to be particularly useful for cutting
>tree roots, whilst still buried in the ground.
With the right blade the sawzall will cut just about anything, just
about anywhere.
And unlike the cheap clones, it will do it decade after decade.

Advertise it as "free firewood, cut it up and haul it away".

Pete Stanaitis
--------------------

john hamilton wrote:

> Novice has small angle grinder (takes discs 115 mm with central hole
> diameter 22mm). The discs i've already got for it are for grinding tiles and
> metal.
>
> Having knocked down a very old cedar garden shed, I want to cut up all the
> wood. I'm wondering if i buy one of the diamond discs available for it,
> whether that would be reasonably ok for cutting wood with? I cannot find
> any discs that are said to be specifially for wood for this type of angle
> grinder.
>
> Some of the shed cladding wood is very thin (with nails all over the place)
> so i think the usual circular saw for wood would be a bit too hefty and
> vigourous on this thin wood of the shed. Grateful for any suggestions on
> the best type of circular disc to go for. Thanks.
>
>

On Sun, 16 May 2010 21:42:40 +0100, John Rumm
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On 15/05/2010 23:02, js.b1 wrote:
>> On May 15, 10:03 pm, aemeijers<[email protected]> wrote:
>>> What you need is a reciprocating saw with a demolition blade.
>>> It is one long blade (not two, like the other post implied),
>>> that goes back and forth like a handsaw.
>>
>> I think there are 2 types...
>> - Alligator saw - double blades like a hedge trimmer
>> - Demolition saw - single blade that just pumps away
>
>There are a few variations:
>
>http://www.diyfaq.org.uk/powertools/recipsaw.htm
>

Checked out that page and have even more tool-envy. I've never seen
a Scorpion saw in the US, either.<g> [and searches of B& D's US site
don't show it]

Jim

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Just ask MR. B.

I know of one wood carving machine (mechanical duplicator) that uses what
looks like an angle grinder with a saw blade in it.

spamlet has brought this to us :
> I also did almost buy a reciprocating saw in either Aldi of Lidl when they
> were going v cheap last year. At the time though, I thought I'd always be
> fit enough to use hand saws...

The reciprocating saw will fit and cut, where you cannot possibly get a
hand saw into. I have found mine to be particularly useful for cutting
tree roots, whilst still buried in the ground.

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

tony sayer presented the following explanation :
> In article <[email protected]>, Harry
> Bloomfield <[email protected]> scribeth thus
>> spamlet has brought this to us :
>>> I also did almost buy a reciprocating saw in either Aldi of Lidl when they
>>> were going v cheap last year. At the time though, I thought I'd always be
>>> fit enough to use hand saws...
>>
>> The reciprocating saw will fit and cut, where you cannot possibly get a
>> hand saw into. I have found mine to be particularly useful for cutting
>> tree roots, whilst still buried in the ground.
>>
>
> Bet you go thru the blades doing that;!...

No, none have worn out yet. I've managed to cut 12" trees down with it,
lots of roots and cut 4" alloy bar stock.

>
> Which one have U got?..

The blue black Aldi variable speed one. The spring which closes the
lever for foot adjustment seems to have weakened (may just be choked up
with saw dust), other than that it works well.

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

Lobster formulated on Sunday :
> What's the travel like on the blades of those saws? I certainly have a need
> for a rough'n ready powered saw for that sort of use, but had always thought
> they looked a bit too small, and Alligator-types were a bit OTT/out of my
> price range. But taking out a 12" tree sounds reasonably impressive...

Travel is about 2" and the blade was 9" long, so I had to cut from
three sides to get all the way through.

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

It happens that aemeijers formulated :
> Wow- portable power tools for home use seemingly took a long winding road in
> UK. (Maybe because of the different power?) All those tools you described
> were available at realistic prices in the states by late 60s early 70s- as
> stand-alone tools, not a 'Transformer' kit. Most homes that had even a
> rudimentary workbench had a 3/8" drill, a small saber saw, and a cheap
> circular saw. Sanders and such were usually only purchased if the Mrs. was
> into furniture refinishing or something. This was stuff for repairs and
> backyard construction of kid-stuff, not for fine cabinetry.

The stand-alone power tools started to become affordable for DIY from
around the mid 80's in the UK. From around 2000 the prices have really
fallen, due to all of the cheap imported stuff.

My father's only power tool was a B&D drill from the 1960's, which I
know cost a small fortune when he bought it. It was beautifully made
and was still in pristine condition when I disposed of it a few years
ago - its relatively small chuck made it not very practical for modern
usage.




--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

>Rather than continuing the willy waving, perhaps we can agree that an
>angle grinder is not the tool for this job and leave it at that?
>
>> The reason most us have said to not use the grinder with a blade
>> has much more to do with the OP's opening line which said that he
>> was not experienced. Let it alone.
>
>> I really hate it when people babble and pontificate about things
>> of which they have no experience. If you have information or
>> experience to share, have at: otherwise, sit back and listen
>> (read).
>
>Perhaps you might care to review some of these: (Warning, some of these
>are graphic)
>

Never mind the "graphic" bits the text is bad enough;!....


"A thorough secondary survey should be performed in the situation of a
shattered disc as several anatomical sites may be affected. In
particular perineal or scrotal injuries occur if the operator straddles
the object being cut and can be missed [2]. Overhead use of angle
grinders has been associated with fatal intracranial injury and should
be avoided [5]. A number of articles have been published to warn of
these specific dangers [6,7]. In order to reduce the risks of injury
there are general guidelines about the use of power tools such as
checking they are maintained and on the use of protective clothing [7].
Specific guidance on the use of angle grinders is shown in Table 2.


--
Tony Sayer

On 16/05/2010 22:11, aemeijers wrote:
> John Rumm wrote:
>> On 16/05/2010 19:28, Lobster wrote:
>>> Bruce wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 16 May 2010 11:25:02 +0000 (UTC), [email protected]
>>>> (Andrew Gabriel) wrote:
>>>>> I have one of these on the shelf in the garage, but the drill gave up
>>>>> (the day I just bought several new blades for it, of course).
>>>>> It worked well for 10+ years, before dedicated circular saws were
>>>>> available at affordable prices. B&D had a load of drill attachments
>>>>> of that form. My father also had the circular saw one, but also the
>>>>> jigsaw and the hedgecutter attachments (and probably some I've
>>>>> forgotten).
>>>
>>> Somewhere I think I also still have the Vertical Drill Stand and the
>>> Horizontal Drill Stand (aka bench-grinder conversion tool)!
>>>
>>>> My father had the B&D circular saw attachment and the finishing sander
>>>> attachment. I inherited them and used them for a few years.
>>>> When I finally got around to buying a Bosch circular saw, I wondered
>>>> why on earth I had struggled on with the clunky B&D attachment.
>>>
>>> As Andrew alluded to, because of the prohibitive cost back then. I can
>>> remember my parents buying their first (and only - Mum still has it!)
>>> B&D drill in the early 70s. It was a 2-speed hammer job, and IIRC it
>>> cost 30-40 GBP, which would be worth probably ten times that in todays
>>> money. They certainly weren't a common part of people's household stuff
>>> as they are today. Presumably other portable power tools must have been
>>> similarly priced, accounting for the plethora of attachments you used to
>>> buy for them. God it was a PITA always swapping them over though!
>>
>> I recall my mother buying a B&D suitcase in the early 80's, that came
>> with a 2 speed hammer drill and a bunch of accessories. Cost was £84
>> IIRC from Argos (or possibly the catalogue shop that preceded it.
>> These included the circular saw that got a fair bit of use (but with
>> hindsight was pretty poor!), an orbital sander (not too bad), and a
>> jigsaw (had the ergonomics of a pissed off octopus!) The drill itself
>> is still going... although it gets little use these days.
>>
>
> Wow- portable power tools for home use seemingly took a long winding
> road in UK. (Maybe because of the different power?) All those tools you
> described were available at realistic prices in the states by late 60s
> early 70s- as stand-alone tools, not a 'Transformer' kit. Most homes

They were certainly available long before that - but often the prices
were prohibitive - partly because other than basic things like drills,
much of the kit was professional level stuff not really aimed at the
general public.

(That £84 would be something like £270 ($400) in today's money allowing
for inflation).

> that had even a rudimentary workbench had a 3/8" drill, a small saber
> saw, and a cheap circular saw. Sanders and such were usually only
> purchased if the Mrs. was into furniture refinishing or something. This
> was stuff for repairs and backyard construction of kid-stuff, not for
> fine cabinetry.
>
> Of course, my experience may be atypical- I grew up in a construction
> company, and most of the kids I hung out with had fathers known to have
> swung a hammer or two in their day.


--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
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|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/

On Sat, 15 May 2010 13:22:33 -0700 (PDT), js.b1 wrote:

> The jigsaw would probably be best for thin cladding (shiplap etc), a
> lot quicker than you realise.

The OP hasn't said what he intends to do with the cut wood. If it's
for a wood burner reasonably uniform size and few splinters is
desirable. Sawing would be the best, I used my table saw (and an old
blade) to cut down the shiplap from our shed refurbishment. That was
for the open fire.

If it's just to make managable for a bonfire, the quickest will be
snapping though over ones knee will probably end up with a bruised
knee fairly quickly. Much better to have a block on the ground a few
inches high and tough pair of boots and use your weight or a stomp to
break it up. I reckon that will be faster than a jigsaw and you still
have the problem of holding the timber.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 16/05/2010 17:09, js.b1 wrote:
> On May 16, 4:42 pm, stuart noble<[email protected]> wrote:
>> John Rumm wrote:
>>> Multiply by the blade circumference... so for a 190mm blade at 4500 rpm
>>> that is 4500 x 0.19 x pi = 2686 m/sec
>
> Heh-heh, blade tip travelling at beyond even rail gun projectile
> hypersonic speed would be fun.
>
>> I knew I could count on you :-)
>
> RPS = 4500rpm / 60 = 75
> Circumference is 2*Pi*R = 2 * 3.14 * 0.19/2 = 0.59m
> Circumferential speed = 75 * 0.49 = 44m/sec.

Well what's a factor of 60 between friends ;-)

Yup, my bad - sorry!


--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/

Bob F wrote:
> Harry Bloomfield wrote:
>> spamlet has brought this to us :
>>> I also did almost buy a reciprocating saw in either Aldi of Lidl
>>> when they were going v cheap last year. At the time though, I
>>> thought I'd always be fit enough to use hand saws...
>> The reciprocating saw will fit and cut, where you cannot possibly get
>> a hand saw into. I have found mine to be particularly useful for
>> cutting tree roots, whilst still buried in the ground.
>
> And there's always harbor freight for a cheap source. Better than using an angle
> grinder and having an accident.
>
>
OP is in the UK- No HF over there, but they likely have something similar.

--
aem sends...

On 16/05/2010 22:07, Jim Elbrecht wrote:
> On Sun, 16 May 2010 21:42:40 +0100, John Rumm
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On 15/05/2010 23:02, js.b1 wrote:
>>> On May 15, 10:03 pm, aemeijers<[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> What you need is a reciprocating saw with a demolition blade.
>>>> It is one long blade (not two, like the other post implied),
>>>> that goes back and forth like a handsaw.
>>>
>>> I think there are 2 types...
>>> - Alligator saw - double blades like a hedge trimmer
>>> - Demolition saw - single blade that just pumps away
>>
>> There are a few variations:
>>
>> http://www.diyfaq.org.uk/powertools/recipsaw.htm
>>
>
> Checked out that page and have even more tool-envy. I've never seen
> a Scorpion saw in the US, either.<g> [and searches of B& D's US site
> don't show it]

Ah, well I *had* one of those. Took me ages to find someone to give it
away too! ;-)

A bit like:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Black-Decker-KS890ECN-Scorpion-Saw/dp/B00032II4A

They seem to be very popular, but I can't understand why! I can only
assume they are bought by infrequent DIYers who have not had the chance
to use a proper recip saw or a decent jigsaw.

They have a very short stroke, and fairly fine teeth so cut very slowly.
They use B&D single source blades that are expensive. They vibrate
excessively. The larger saw looking blade tends to set up side to side
vibration so much that the end tends to hack a wide trench out of the
wood rather than cutting it. It has a jigsaw mode where it behaves just
like the worst jigsaw you have ever used only not as well.

--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/

On 18/05/2010 08:57, Lobby Dosser wrote:
> "John Rumm" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> On 17/05/2010 04:34, [email protected] wrote:
>>> On Sun, 16 May 2010 23:28:22 +0100, John Rumm
>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 16/05/2010 22:07, Jim Elbrecht wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 16 May 2010 21:42:40 +0100, John Rumm
>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 15/05/2010 23:02, js.b1 wrote:
>>>>>>> On May 15, 10:03 pm, aemeijers<[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>> What you need is a reciprocating saw with a demolition blade.
>>>>>>>> It is one long blade (not two, like the other post implied),
>>>>>>>> that goes back and forth like a handsaw.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think there are 2 types...
>>>>>>> - Alligator saw - double blades like a hedge trimmer
>>>>>>> - Demolition saw - single blade that just pumps away
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There are a few variations:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.diyfaq.org.uk/powertools/recipsaw.htm
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Checked out that page and have even more tool-envy. I've never seen
>>>>> a Scorpion saw in the US, either.<g> [and searches of B& D's US site
>>>>> don't show it]
>>>>
>>>> Ah, well I *had* one of those. Took me ages to find someone to give it
>>>> away too! ;-)
>>>>
>>>> A bit like:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Black-Decker-KS890ECN-Scorpion-Saw/dp/B00032II4A
>>>>
>>>
>>> Only in England you say???
>>> Pity!! (NOT)
>>
>> Now those you can get in the US, you lucky people!
>>
>> http://www.amazon.com/Black-Decker-PHS550B-Powered-Handsaw/dp/B000CA6FDY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1274096218&sr=8-1
>>
>>
>> (although the blades are cheaper there - $8.50 vs about £12 ($17) here).
>>
>> --
>> Cheers,
>>
>> John.
>
> http://www.amazon.com/Black-Decker-LP1000-Alligator-Electric/dp/B000BANMUY/ref=pd_sim_hi_7

That's what Andy D mentioned a few posts up this thread - they are very
good for pruning etc. Not the same as the other DeWalt Alligator saw
mentioned before... just to add to the confusion!

--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/

Nonny wrote:
>
> "Tim Watts" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> On 15/05/10 23:53, Jim Yanik wrote:
>>> Tim Watts<[email protected]> wrote in
>>> news:[email protected]:
>>>
>>>> On 15/05/10 21:00, john hamilton wrote:
>>>>> Novice has small angle grinder (takes discs 115 mm with central hole
>>>>> diameter 22mm). The discs i've already got for it are for grinding
>>>>> tiles and metal.
>>>>>
>>>>> Having knocked down a very old cedar garden shed, I want to cut up
>>>>> all the wood. I'm wondering if i buy one of the diamond discs
>>>>> available for it, whether that would be reasonably ok for cutting
>>>>> wood with? I cannot find any discs that are said to be specifially
>>>>> for wood for this type of angle grinder.
>>>>>
>>>>> Some of the shed cladding wood is very thin (with nails all over the
>>>>> place) so i think the usual circular saw for wood would be a bit too
>>>>> hefty and vigourous on this thin wood of the shed. Grateful for any
>>>>> suggestions on the best type of circular disc to go for. Thanks.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I saw some discs in Alsford Timber the other day that were available
>>>> in 9" and 12" (might have been a 4-odd inch too) that were advertised
>>>> for wood, especially tree roots. They had some almighty lumps
>>>> (1/8-1/4") of abrasive (maybe carbide) suck on the side. Looked
>>>> bloody viscous - sadly I can't remember the name.
>>>>
>>>> A google for angle grinder and tree roots might turn up something...
>>>> Or ring Alsfords in Hastings (assuming you're in the UK) and ask them
>>>> what those bastard evil discs on the front counter in the display
>>>> stand are called...
>>>>
>>>
>>> diamond discs would gum up from resins and overheat quickly.
>>> They are made for ceramics and metals,not wood.
>>>
>>
>> It wasn't a diamond disc - very clearly nothing like one to the eye -
>> in fact I've never seen anything like it before...
>>
>> --
>> Tim Watts
>>
>> Hung parliament? Rather have a hanged parliament.
>
> I've seen 4" blades for angle grinders that incorporate a chainsaw
> chain. They're used for coarse shaping for carvings. In fact, I saw
> one in use making a totem pole in Alaska and it really worked well.
>
> I also have seen a 4" disk with extremely coarse carbide crystals on it,
> but it was for use in an oscillating saw that just looked like an angle
> grinder, and was used more for sanding than for cutting.
>
A sawblade has individual teeth is so that the debris from the material
being cut can be thrown clear of the next tooth. If the blade cannot
clear itself, there is just friction but no cutting.
In the old days B&D used to do a 5" circular saw blade as a drill
attachment. Can't imagine what it could have been used for, but at least
it wasn't spinning at 10,000 rpm

In article <[email protected]>, John Rumm wrote:
>>
>> http://www.amazon.com/Black-Decker-LP1000-Alligator-Electric/dp/B000BANMUY/ref=pd_sim_hi_7
>
>That's what Andy D mentioned a few posts up this thread - they are very
>good for pruning etc. Not the same as the other DeWalt Alligator saw
>mentioned before... just to add to the confusion!

For added confusion, Black and Decker used to sell a two bladed
reciprocating saw like the De Walt that was also called "Alligator".
They may even have been the same saw rebranded. See e.g.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/18-Black-Decker-Alligator-Saw-blades-DeWALT-DW390-/320529867339?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_Home_Garden_PowerTools_SM&hash=item4aa111a24b

Stuart wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> stuart noble <[email protected]> wrote:
>> In the old days B&D used to do a 5" circular saw blade as a drill
>> attachment.
>
> Yup, had one of those
>
>> Can't imagine what it could have been used for,
>
> It was usefull for cutting sheet material or ripping down the odd
> floorboard :-)
>

Yes, I can imagine ripping a floorboard with that thing :-)

"Harry Bloomfield" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> spamlet has brought this to us :
>> I also did almost buy a reciprocating saw in either Aldi of Lidl when
>> they were going v cheap last year. At the time though, I thought I'd
>> always be fit enough to use hand saws...
>
> The reciprocating saw will fit and cut, where you cannot possibly get a
> hand saw into. I have found mine to be particularly useful for cutting
> tree roots, whilst still buried in the ground.
>
> --
> Regards,
> Harry (M1BYT) (L)

I tend to put a chain round roots - leaving a bit of the stump attached -
and then jacking the stump out of the ground using fence posts for leverage.
Of course, I'm talking garden sized things rather than large native trees...

S

On Sat, 15 May 2010 21:00:53 +0100, "john hamilton" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Novice has small angle grinder (takes discs 115 mm with central hole
>diameter 22mm). The discs i've already got for it are for grinding tiles and
>metal.
>
>Having knocked down a very old cedar garden shed, I want to cut up all the
>wood. I'm wondering if i buy one of the diamond discs available for it,
>whether that would be reasonably ok for cutting wood with? I cannot find
>any discs that are said to be specifially for wood for this type of angle
>grinder.

No. A grinder will more likely start the wood on fire than cut it. There is
good reason you don't find wood "blades" for an angle grinder. It's
absolutely the wrong tool for the job.

>Some of the shed cladding wood is very thin (with nails all over the place)
>so i think the usual circular saw for wood would be a bit too hefty and
>vigourous on this thin wood of the shed. Grateful for any suggestions on
>the best type of circular disc to go for. Thanks.

A circular saw will work fine. Be careful with nails, though. A circular saw
will cut them (as long as you don't care about the blade) but it might throw
them too. Wear *lots* of protection. A "Sawsall" (reciprocating saw) is a
better tool for the job, though.

Bruce wrote:
> On Sun, 16 May 2010 11:25:02 +0000 (UTC), [email protected]
> (Andrew Gabriel) wrote:
>> I have one of these on the shelf in the garage, but the drill gave up
>> (the day I just bought several new blades for it, of course).
>> It worked well for 10+ years, before dedicated circular saws were
>> available at affordable prices. B&D had a load of drill attachments
>> of that form. My father also had the circular saw one, but also the
>> jigsaw and the hedgecutter attachments (and probably some I've
>> forgotten).

Somewhere I think I also still have the Vertical Drill Stand and the
Horizontal Drill Stand (aka bench-grinder conversion tool)!

> My father had the B&D circular saw attachment and the finishing sander
> attachment. I inherited them and used them for a few years.
>
> When I finally got around to buying a Bosch circular saw, I wondered
> why on earth I had struggled on with the clunky B&D attachment.

As Andrew alluded to, because of the prohibitive cost back then. I can
remember my parents buying their first (and only - Mum still has it!)
B&D drill in the early 70s. It was a 2-speed hammer job, and IIRC it
cost 30-40 GBP, which would be worth probably ten times that in todays
money. They certainly weren't a common part of people's household stuff
as they are today. Presumably other portable power tools must have been
similarly priced, accounting for the plethora of attachments you used to
buy for them. God it was a PITA always swapping them over though!

David

On 17/05/2010 04:34, [email protected] wrote:
> On Sun, 16 May 2010 23:28:22 +0100, John Rumm
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On 16/05/2010 22:07, Jim Elbrecht wrote:
>>> On Sun, 16 May 2010 21:42:40 +0100, John Rumm
>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 15/05/2010 23:02, js.b1 wrote:
>>>>> On May 15, 10:03 pm, aemeijers<[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>> What you need is a reciprocating saw with a demolition blade.
>>>>>> It is one long blade (not two, like the other post implied),
>>>>>> that goes back and forth like a handsaw.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think there are 2 types...
>>>>> - Alligator saw - double blades like a hedge trimmer
>>>>> - Demolition saw - single blade that just pumps away
>>>>
>>>> There are a few variations:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.diyfaq.org.uk/powertools/recipsaw.htm
>>>>
>>>
>>> Checked out that page and have even more tool-envy. I've never seen
>>> a Scorpion saw in the US, either.<g> [and searches of B& D's US site
>>> don't show it]
>>
>> Ah, well I *had* one of those. Took me ages to find someone to give it
>> away too! ;-)
>>
>> A bit like:
>>
>> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Black-Decker-KS890ECN-Scorpion-Saw/dp/B00032II4A
>
> Only in England you say???
> Pity!! (NOT)

Now those you can get in the US, you lucky people!

http://www.amazon.com/Black-Decker-PHS550B-Powered-Handsaw/dp/B000CA6FDY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1274096218&sr=8-1

(although the blades are cheaper there - $8.50 vs about £12 ($17) here).

--
Cheers,

John.

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