I am a newcomer to this newsgroup (4 days) and also to woodworking (4
months) although, like most homeowners, I have done numerous carpentry
projects over the years.
Apart from new equipment, I have an old Craftsman radial arm saw and a
Craftsman Router (model 315.17370) which is about 30 years old.
As a first project I am making a display case which calls for blind dovetail
joints on the drawer front. I have a dovetail jig so this should be no
problem but my old router does not want to hold the dovetail bit securely.
It slips down and scorches the wood half way through the process.
I have asked Sears to overhaul the machine but they say it is far to old for
new parts and they would charge me more than it is worth.
I find inserting and tightening the bit very awkward (seems to need three
hands in a very small space).
Now my questions.
Is it my lack of skill or may I legitimately blame it on the machine?
Is bit installation easier on more modern machines?
Why do routers use collets instead of chucks like drills?
I am currently leaning towards the Bosch 1617PK or the more powerful
1617EVSPK. Is this a good choice for hand held use?
Best Regards,
Jack Fearnley
The Bosch is a good choice. BTW, it is essentially identical to the
Crafstman Professional Router Kit model 009.26620 (router with fixed and
plunge bases), which I bought at Christmas. Apparently made for them by
Bosch. You might be able to get the Craftsman model a little cheaper,
and it comes in a double-wall vacuum formed case too. Sears also sells
the Bosch 1617 (fixed base router) and the Porter Cable model 693LRPK
(router with fixed & plunge bases).
--Steve
Jack Fearnley wrote:
> I am a newcomer to this newsgroup (4 days) and also to woodworking (4
> months) although, like most homeowners, I have done numerous carpentry
> projects over the years.
>
> Apart from new equipment, I have an old Craftsman radial arm saw and a
> Craftsman Router (model 315.17370) which is about 30 years old.
>
> As a first project I am making a display case which calls for blind dovetail
> joints on the drawer front. I have a dovetail jig so this should be no
> problem but my old router does not want to hold the dovetail bit securely.
> It slips down and scorches the wood half way through the process.
>
> I have asked Sears to overhaul the machine but they say it is far to old for
> new parts and they would charge me more than it is worth.
>
> I find inserting and tightening the bit very awkward (seems to need three
> hands in a very small space).
>
> Now my questions.
>
> Is it my lack of skill or may I legitimately blame it on the machine?
>
> Is bit installation easier on more modern machines?
>
> Why do routers use collets instead of chucks like drills?
>
> I am currently leaning towards the Bosch 1617PK or the more powerful
> 1617EVSPK. Is this a good choice for hand held use?
>
> Best Regards,
> Jack Fearnley
>
>
>
Just did a search on Craftsman.com on your router model 315.17370. You
can buy a replacement collet for $6.99, but the collet nut is not available.
--Steve
Jack Fearnley wrote:
> I am a newcomer to this newsgroup (4 days) and also to woodworking (4
> months) although, like most homeowners, I have done numerous carpentry
> projects over the years.
>
> Apart from new equipment, I have an old Craftsman radial arm saw and a
> Craftsman Router (model 315.17370) which is about 30 years old.
>
> As a first project I am making a display case which calls for blind dovetail
> joints on the drawer front. I have a dovetail jig so this should be no
> problem but my old router does not want to hold the dovetail bit securely.
> It slips down and scorches the wood half way through the process.
>
> I have asked Sears to overhaul the machine but they say it is far to old for
> new parts and they would charge me more than it is worth.
>
> I find inserting and tightening the bit very awkward (seems to need three
> hands in a very small space).
>
> Now my questions.
>
> Is it my lack of skill or may I legitimately blame it on the machine?
>
> Is bit installation easier on more modern machines?
>
> Why do routers use collets instead of chucks like drills?
>
> I am currently leaning towards the Bosch 1617PK or the more powerful
> 1617EVSPK. Is this a good choice for hand held use?
>
> Best Regards,
> Jack Fearnley
>
>
>
I just did a search on Craftsman.com and found that a replacement collet
is available for your Craftsman model 315.17370 router. The part number
for the collet is 1-606490-02. Might want to consider this option even
if you get the new router. It may be the old collet is worn, as someone
else suggested.
--Steve
Jack Fearnley wrote:
> I am a newcomer to this newsgroup (4 days) and also to woodworking (4
> months) although, like most homeowners, I have done numerous carpentry
> projects over the years.
>
> Apart from new equipment, I have an old Craftsman radial arm saw and a
> Craftsman Router (model 315.17370) which is about 30 years old.
>
> As a first project I am making a display case which calls for blind dovetail
> joints on the drawer front. I have a dovetail jig so this should be no
> problem but my old router does not want to hold the dovetail bit securely.
> It slips down and scorches the wood half way through the process.
>
> I have asked Sears to overhaul the machine but they say it is far to old for
> new parts and they would charge me more than it is worth.
>
> I find inserting and tightening the bit very awkward (seems to need three
> hands in a very small space).
>
> Now my questions.
>
> Is it my lack of skill or may I legitimately blame it on the machine?
>
> Is bit installation easier on more modern machines?
>
> Why do routers use collets instead of chucks like drills?
>
> I am currently leaning towards the Bosch 1617PK or the more powerful
> 1617EVSPK. Is this a good choice for hand held use?
>
> Best Regards,
> Jack Fearnley
>
>
>
Jack Fearnley wrote:
> I am a newcomer to this newsgroup (4 days) and also to woodworking (4
> months) although, like most homeowners, I have done numerous
carpentry
> projects over the years.
>
> Apart from new equipment, I have an old Craftsman radial arm saw and
a
> Craftsman Router (model 315.17370) which is about 30 years old.
>
> As a first project I am making a display case which calls for blind
dovetail
> joints on the drawer front. I have a dovetail jig so this should be
no
> problem but my old router does not want to hold the dovetail bit
securely.
> It slips down and scorches the wood half way through the process.
Heh, heh. The Automatic Random Height Adjustment strikes again. Been
there, done that. Apparently, that's an option that's been around for
quite awhile.
>
> I have asked Sears to overhaul the machine but they say it is far to
old for
> new parts and they would charge me more than it is worth.
>
I believe Luigi may have a way to make your Craftsman router useful.
Snip
>
> I am currently leaning towards the Bosch 1617PK or the more powerful
> 1617EVSPK. Is this a good choice for hand held use?
>
My 2 cents: Porter Cable 690 series. It's like the F-150 of routers.
Not too expensive, not too fancy, does a lot of work pretty well. As a
(relatively) new WWer, I've found the PC to be (almost) everything I
could want in a router.
Please, GM crowd, I mean no offense.
-Phil Crow
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> My 2 cents: Porter Cable 690 series. It's like the F-150 of routers.
> Not too expensive, not too fancy, does a lot of work pretty well. As a
> (relatively) new WWer, I've found the PC to be (almost) everything I
> could want in a router.
> Please, GM crowd, I mean no offense.
>
> -Phil Crow
I saw a few demos at the last woodworking show, and the Dewalts seemed a lot
quieter than my Porter Cables (PC8529, PC7519). After that I kinda wish my
routers were yellow (really just quieter). I wonder what the future holds
for PC now that they are owned by Black & Decker? Wandering off topic here,
but maybe not.
Kevin in Bakersfield
"Jack Fearnley" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Is it my lack of skill or may I legitimately blame it on the machine?
Ack! Of course you blame the tool!
>
> Is bit installation easier on more modern machines?
Bit installation (and stabilization) is prolly easier on non-craftsman
and/or newer routers.
>
> Why do routers use collets instead of chucks like drills?
>
Cuz they spin the bits at 23,000 rpm?
> I am currently leaning towards the Bosch 1617PK or the more powerful
> 1617EVSPK. Is this a good choice for hand held use?
I have the PC 690 and the Bosch 1617EVSPK. I think you'll really enjoy the
Bosch too.
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>>
> My 2 cents: Porter Cable 690 series. It's like the F-150 of routers.
> Not too expensive, not too fancy, does a lot of work pretty well. As a
> (relatively) new WWer, I've found the PC to be (almost) everything I
> could want in a router.
> Please, GM crowd, I mean no offense.
No offense taken.. ;~) If you want to settle on a ford get the PC.
"Jack Fearnley" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> As a first project I am making a display case which calls for blind
> dovetail
> joints on the drawer front. I have a dovetail jig so this should be no
> problem but my old router does not want to hold the dovetail bit securely.
> It slips down and scorches the wood half way through the process.
Jack, not to talk you out of a new router, but are you sure it isn't the
dovetail bit? This bit isn't a freebee that came with a harbor freight jig
is it?
Kevin in Bakersfield
Ya can't go wrong with the Bosch. Stop fighting with the old Craftsman and
treat yourself to a router that can get the job done without all the
hassles. Keep the Craftsman for doing lighter duty, less precision tasks,
like rounding over corners and such. You'll be glad you did. --dave
"Jack Fearnley" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I am a newcomer to this newsgroup (4 days) and also to woodworking (4
> months) although, like most homeowners, I have done numerous carpentry
> projects over the years.
>
> Apart from new equipment, I have an old Craftsman radial arm saw and a
> Craftsman Router (model 315.17370) which is about 30 years old.
>
> As a first project I am making a display case which calls for blind
> dovetail
> joints on the drawer front. I have a dovetail jig so this should be no
> problem but my old router does not want to hold the dovetail bit securely.
> It slips down and scorches the wood half way through the process.
>
> I have asked Sears to overhaul the machine but they say it is far to old
> for
> new parts and they would charge me more than it is worth.
>
> I find inserting and tightening the bit very awkward (seems to need three
> hands in a very small space).
>
> Now my questions.
>
> Is it my lack of skill or may I legitimately blame it on the machine?
>
> Is bit installation easier on more modern machines?
>
> Why do routers use collets instead of chucks like drills?
>
> I am currently leaning towards the Bosch 1617PK or the more powerful
> 1617EVSPK. Is this a good choice for hand held use?
>
> Best Regards,
> Jack Fearnley
>
>
>
Kevin wrote:
>
> "Jack Fearnley" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>> As a first project I am making a display case which calls for blind
>> dovetail
>> joints on the drawer front. I have a dovetail jig so this should be no
>> problem but my old router does not want to hold the dovetail bit
>> securely. It slips down and scorches the wood half way through the
>> process.
>
> Jack, not to talk you out of a new router, but are you sure it isn't the
> dovetail bit? This bit isn't a freebee that came with a harbor freight
> jig is it?
The jig is "General International 12" dovetail fixture 40-010". I bought the
dovetail bit at Lee Valley so it should be OK.
Jack Fearnley
>
> Kevin in Bakersfield
Bosch is a good choice. The Porter Cable 690 is also worth considering.
Like the Bosch, it is available in a kit with fixed and plunge bases.
A drill chuck is made for variable shaft sizes whereas a collet is for a
fixed shaft size. Some routers have a shaft locking device that will permit
bit changes more easily than others...and with fewer hands.
"Jack Fearnley" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I am a newcomer to this newsgroup (4 days) and also to woodworking (4
> months) although, like most homeowners, I have done numerous carpentry
> projects over the years.
>
> Apart from new equipment, I have an old Craftsman radial arm saw and a
> Craftsman Router (model 315.17370) which is about 30 years old.
>
> As a first project I am making a display case which calls for blind
dovetail
> joints on the drawer front. I have a dovetail jig so this should be no
> problem but my old router does not want to hold the dovetail bit securely.
> It slips down and scorches the wood half way through the process.
>
> I have asked Sears to overhaul the machine but they say it is far to old
for
> new parts and they would charge me more than it is worth.
>
> I find inserting and tightening the bit very awkward (seems to need three
> hands in a very small space).
>
> Now my questions.
>
> Is it my lack of skill or may I legitimately blame it on the machine?
>
> Is bit installation easier on more modern machines?
>
> Why do routers use collets instead of chucks like drills?
>
> I am currently leaning towards the Bosch 1617PK or the more powerful
> 1617EVSPK. Is this a good choice for hand held use?
>
> Best Regards,
> Jack Fearnley
>
>
>
"Jack Fearnley" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
Snoip
> I am currently leaning towards the Bosch 1617PK or the more powerful
> 1617EVSPK. Is this a good choice for hand held use?
Yes this is a good hand held router. I would strongly advise getting the
variable speed unit with the plunge and fixed base.
Jack Fearnley <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
<snip>
> I guess I'll spend the money and get the Bosch. As somebodies sig
> says; That way you only cry once.
>
Over _this_ router. There will be others. See the Laminate Trimmer
thread.
Patriarch
On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 23:47:47 -0600, Patriarch
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Jack Fearnley <[email protected]> wrote in
>news:[email protected]:
>
><snip>
>> I guess I'll spend the money and get the Bosch. As somebodies sig
>> says; That way you only cry once.
>>
>
>Over _this_ router. There will be others. See the Laminate Trimmer
>thread.
>
>Patriarch
No need to scare him off - one step at a time...
Kevin wrote:
> "Jack Fearnley" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>
>>As a first project I am making a display case which calls for blind
>>dovetail
>>joints on the drawer front. I have a dovetail jig so this should be no
>>problem but my old router does not want to hold the dovetail bit securely.
>>It slips down and scorches the wood half way through the process.
>
>
> Jack, not to talk you out of a new router, but are you sure it isn't the
> dovetail bit? This bit isn't a freebee that came with a harbor freight jig
> is it?
>
> Kevin in Bakersfield
>
>
What freebie? I never got a freebie dovetail bit with my HF
dovetail jig. Did I get screwed? No, don't answer that. :-)
Luigi Zanasi wrote:
> On Monday 24 Jan 2005 10:00 pm, Jack Fearnley scribbled:
>
>> Apart from new equipment, I have an old Craftsman radial arm saw and a
>> Craftsman Router (model 315.17370) which is about 30 years old.
>>
>> As a first project I am making a display case which calls for blind
>> dovetail
>> joints on the drawer front. I have a dovetail jig so this should be
>> no problem but my old router does not want to hold the dovetail bit
>> securely. It slips down and scorches the wood half way through the
>> process.
>
> This is technically known as ARHA (Automatic Random Height Adjustment)
> to which older Sears routers are prone. Many of us have had that
> problem. Do a google search.
>
>> I have asked Sears to overhaul the machine but they say it is far to
>> old for new parts and they would charge me more than it is worth.
>
> They couldn't do it anyway because the collet is an integral part of the
> shaft. They would have to replace the motor. In other routers, you can
> replace the collet. For a solution see:
>
>
http://www.google.ca/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=358577DF.53486851%40your.clothes.home.com
>
>> Is it my lack of skill or may I legitimately blame it on the machine?
>
> It's the machine.
>
>> I am currently leaning towards the Bosch 1617PK or the more powerful
>> 1617EVSPK. Is this a good choice for hand held use?
>
> Yes. (IMNSHO) I have one & like it. I also like my Porter Cable 690.
> Other swear by DeWalt, Hitachi, Freud, Makita, etc. See Pat Warner's web
> site for more info and some comparisons:
>
> http://www.patwarner.com/
>
Sincere thanks to all who responded so promptly. It is comforting to know
that I have a common ailment and not something rare and obscure :)
I guess I'll spend the money and get the Bosch. As somebodies sig says;
That way you only cry once.
Best Regards,
Jack Fearnley
Jack, There are several possibilities that would give you this problem. It
is possible that you are inserting the bit too far into the collet. Where
the router shaft trasitions into the bit, there is often a radius there and
the collet will not grasp enough of the shaft. Pull the bit out about 1/8
inch and tighten it down good. Another possibility is that the bit is just
dull and it wont handle the bite without dragging out of the collet..It is
also possible that the collet is worn or maybe even has a burn glaze on it.
You might try cleaning the mating surface if you can. As for why they use a
collet instead of a chuck, I do not know for sure, but I think there is more
frictional contact between the collet and the shaft. The chuck only
contacts the shaft at three line of intersection and it may not give enough
grip. The other possibility is that the chucks are more complicated and are
much heavier. They would have a tendency to get out of balance much easier
at the speeds a router turns. Hope you can remedy the problem and good
luck. I have no idea about the Bosch routers though. Sorry.
"Jack Fearnley" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I am a newcomer to this newsgroup (4 days) and also to woodworking (4
> months) although, like most homeowners, I have done numerous carpentry
> projects over the years.
>
> Apart from new equipment, I have an old Craftsman radial arm saw and a
> Craftsman Router (model 315.17370) which is about 30 years old.
>
> As a first project I am making a display case which calls for blind
> dovetail
> joints on the drawer front. I have a dovetail jig so this should be no
> problem but my old router does not want to hold the dovetail bit securely.
> It slips down and scorches the wood half way through the process.
>
> I have asked Sears to overhaul the machine but they say it is far to old
> for
> new parts and they would charge me more than it is worth.
>
> I find inserting and tightening the bit very awkward (seems to need three
> hands in a very small space).
>
> Now my questions.
>
> Is it my lack of skill or may I legitimately blame it on the machine?
>
> Is bit installation easier on more modern machines?
>
> Why do routers use collets instead of chucks like drills?
>
> I am currently leaning towards the Bosch 1617PK or the more powerful
> 1617EVSPK. Is this a good choice for hand held use?
>
> Best Regards,
> Jack Fearnley
>
>
>
On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 17:00:24 -0500, Jack Fearnley
<[email protected]> wrote:
>I am a newcomer to this newsgroup (4 days) and also to woodworking (4
>months) although, like most homeowners, I have done numerous carpentry
>projects over the years.
>
>Apart from new equipment, I have an old Craftsman radial arm saw and a
>Craftsman Router (model 315.17370) which is about 30 years old.
>
>As a first project I am making a display case which calls for blind dovetail
>joints on the drawer front. I have a dovetail jig so this should be no
>problem but my old router does not want to hold the dovetail bit securely.
>It slips down and scorches the wood half way through the process.
>
>I have asked Sears to overhaul the machine but they say it is far to old for
>new parts and they would charge me more than it is worth.
>
>I find inserting and tightening the bit very awkward (seems to need three
>hands in a very small space).
>
>Now my questions.
>
>Is it my lack of skill or may I legitimately blame it on the machine?
<http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.woodworking/browse_thread/thread/2ffd6d1d7ac796e8/8059e8ba0150b8e2?q=group:rec.woodworking+insubject:ARHA&_done=%2Fgroups%3Fsafe%3Dimages%26as_ugroup%3Drec.woodworking%26as_usubject%3DARHA%26lr%3D%26hl%3Den%26&_doneTitle=Back+to+Search&&d#8059e8ba0150b8e2>
>
>Is bit installation easier on more modern machines?
>
>Why do routers use collets instead of chucks like drills?
>
>I am currently leaning towards the Bosch 1617PK or the more powerful
>1617EVSPK. Is this a good choice for hand held use?
>
>Best Regards,
> Jack Fearnley
>
>
>
"George E. Cawthon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Kevin wrote:
>> "Jack Fearnley" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>
>>
>>>As a first project I am making a display case which calls for blind
>>>dovetail
>>>joints on the drawer front. I have a dovetail jig so this should be no
>>>problem but my old router does not want to hold the dovetail bit
>>>securely.
>>>It slips down and scorches the wood half way through the process.
>>
>>
>> Jack, not to talk you out of a new router, but are you sure it isn't the
>> dovetail bit? This bit isn't a freebee that came with a harbor freight
>> jig is it?
>>
>> Kevin in Bakersfield
>
> What freebie? I never got a freebie dovetail bit with my HF dovetail jig.
> Did I get screwed? No, don't answer that. :-)
I guess they really aren't free as you can get the same jig from them for a
few dollars less without the bits.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=42821
Kevin in Bakersfield
On Monday 24 Jan 2005 10:00 pm, Jack Fearnley scribbled:
> Apart from new equipment, I have an old Craftsman radial arm saw and a
> Craftsman Router (model 315.17370) which is about 30 years old.
>
> As a first project I am making a display case which calls for blind
> dovetail
> joints on the drawer front. I have a dovetail jig so this should be
> no problem but my old router does not want to hold the dovetail bit
> securely. It slips down and scorches the wood half way through the
> process.
This is technically known as ARHA (Automatic Random Height Adjustment)
to which older Sears routers are prone. Many of us have had that
problem. Do a google search.
> I have asked Sears to overhaul the machine but they say it is far to
> old for new parts and they would charge me more than it is worth.
They couldn't do it anyway because the collet is an integral part of the
shaft. They would have to replace the motor. In other routers, you can
replace the collet. For a solution see:
http://www.google.ca/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=358577DF.53486851%40your.clothes.home.com
> Is it my lack of skill or may I legitimately blame it on the machine?
It's the machine.
> I am currently leaning towards the Bosch 1617PK or the more powerful
> 1617EVSPK. Is this a good choice for hand held use?
Yes. (IMNSHO) I have one & like it. I also like my Porter Cable 690.
Other swear by DeWalt, Hitachi, Freud, Makita, etc. See Pat Warner's web
site for more info and some comparisons:
http://www.patwarner.com/
--
Luigi
Current real email is my first name in lower case while the domain is
yknet dot ca
www.yukonomics.ca/wooddorking/humour.html
www.yukonomics.ca/wooddorking/antifaq.html