About a week ago, I was sanding with a PC ROS hooked up to my Shop Vac
QSP when the vac decided not to turn off and on with the sander. So off
to Woodcraft and came home with a Fein Turbo II. Much better, more
suction, etc. This weekend, Friday, went to Woodcraft for their open
house/sale. Sunday, the sander decided to random orbit about 10 times a
minute. Had the sander had any compassion, it would have died Thursday.
Today, off to Woodcraft again. Now the proud owner of a Festool ETS 125
EQ ROS. What a difference.
On Oct 19, 4:30=A0pm, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Jim in Milwaukee" <[email protected]> wrote in messagenews:UIGdnTm3p64=
[email protected]...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 10/18/2010 6:39 PM, Leon wrote:
> >> "Swingman"<[email protected]> =A0wrote in message
> >>news:[email protected]...
> >>> On 10/18/2010 2:46 PM, Jim in Milwaukee wrote:
> >>>> About a week ago, I was sanding with a PC ROS hooked up to my Shop V=
ac
> >>>> QSP when the vac decided not to turn off and on with the sander. So =
off
> >>>> to Woodcraft and came home with a Fein Turbo II. Much better, more
> >>>> suction, etc. This weekend, Friday, went to Woodcraft for their open
> >>>> house/sale. Sunday, the sander decided to random orbit about 10 time=
s a
> >>>> minute. Had the sander had any compassion, it would have died Thursd=
ay.
> >>>> Today, off to Woodcraft again. Now the proud owner of a Festool ETS =
125
> >>>> EQ ROS. What a difference.
>
> >>> I've got the RO 125, the RTS 400, and the DTS 400. There is a new one
> >>> that
> >>> is being sold in Europe, the RO 90, that is supposedly due in NA soon=
,
> >>> that will be next on my list:
>
> >>>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D66dWpd-6tm4
>
> >>> Amazing how much time these sanders save on a project ... and how muc=
h
> >>> cleanup time, to boot.
>
> >> Damn, I thought it was only a smaller version of the bigger Rotex sand=
ers
> >> but a detail sander too.
>
> > Wonder what the price tag will be on this one.
>
> My guess between $375 and $475.
Under 400... has to be.
On Oct 19, 9:13=A0pm, Larry Jaques <[email protected]>
wrote:
> On Tue, 19 Oct 2010 19:41:29 -0500, "Leon" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> >"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >news:[email protected]...
> >On Oct 19, 4:30 pm, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> "Jim in Milwaukee" <[email protected]> wrote in
> >> > Wonder what the price tag will be on this one.
>
> >> My guess between $375 and $475.
>
> >Under 400... has to be.
>
> But you'll simply _have_ to have those extras and options which bring
> the total up to a mere $3,975.43, won't you? =A0I knew you would. =A0;)
>
I only buy what I know will pay for itself, and as I am retired, that
has raised the bar quite high. I love a good tool as much as the next
guy, and I could (most of the time) justify buying Festool grade
tools. No tool works harder or smarter than a Festool.
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote
>
> "Larry Jaques" wrote
>> Doesn't sawdust mess with the sticky strips on the guide?
>
> The friction strips are not sticky, work very similar to the friction
> pads on the bottom of the Grippers push blocks, they don't slip snf don't
> attract dust either.
Yabbut,...... it takes awhile to gain confidence in their stickiness. :-)
Max
"Larry Jaques" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sat, 23 Oct 2010 17:14:14 -0500, "Leon" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>>>
>>> I haven't yet used one (plugged in) so I can't tell you from
>>> experience. But if you're hanging the motor off the edge of the rail,
>>> I'd think you'd want both clamps for the rail and a catch on the saw
>>> to keep it more steady. <shrug>
>>
>>At a steep bevel angle the saw will lift off of the sled, IF you let go.
>>Under normal operating conditions it has no suprises.
>
> OK. It had appeared to be a useful function...and may be to someone
> else.
It probably is a good idea, but not a necessary one.
On 10/23/2010 11:44 PM, Leon wrote:
> "Larry Jaques"<[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> At a steep bevel angle the saw will lift off of the sled, IF you let go.
>>> Under normal operating conditions it has no suprises.
>>
>> OK. It had appeared to be a useful function...and may be to someone
>> else.
>
>
> It probably is a good idea, but not a necessary one.
I'm of the opposite opinion ... Anti-tilt on the Makita is totally
unnecessary when the saw is operated properly, and most dangerous when not.
The "anti-tilt" is a good idea ONLY on very short bevel cuts, ONLY if
the guide rail is clamped to the work piece and the underlying
cutting/table surface, ONLY if the saw is being improperly operated on
the short cut, and, more to the point, ONLY because it has no riving knife.
In the middle of a _long_ bevel cut, and since guide rails are clamped
only at the ends, no anti-tilt lever made will keep a long guide rail
from flexing slightly and lifting off the work piece without proper
handling by the operator.
This flexing of a long guide will guarantee kick back (yes C-less, even
in sheet goods) and particularly so on a saw with no riving knife.
(simply holding either saw securely, and with a consistent down and
forward motion it proper operation, and is all that is necessary with a
saw equipped with a riving knife)
Any piece of equipment must be operated properly, and anything that
gives the operator a false sense of security often ends up extremely
dangerous.
You can bet that this is one of the reasons you rarely hear about a
kickback problem with either Festool plunge saw.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)
On Thu, 21 Oct 2010 10:44:26 -0700 (PDT), RicodJour
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Oct 20, 9:21 pm, "Josepi" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Must be a complex reader that is hard to use.
>>
>> I can read any style just fine.
>>
>> "Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>
>> news:[email protected]...
>> Sorry, but I have given up trying to decipher your posting methods....
>> you just don't seem to want to fit in and that's okay.
>
>Your posts come through top posted, which in a longer post makes it
>tougher to read, and there's no clear quotation marks for the stuff
>you quoted. I don't understand the "I can read any style just fine"
>comment, unless you're saying, "Fuck you." I would think that you'd
>be interested in making it easier for other people to read. I'm sure
>it's just a simple setting that needs to be tweaked.
Add him to your twit filter and be done with the damned troll, Reeky.
--
Know how to listen, and you will
profit even from those who talk badly.
-- Plutarch
On Thu, 21 Oct 2010 15:38:20 -0500, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>On 10/21/2010 1:17 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>> On Thu, 21 Oct 2010 10:59:27 -0500, Swingman<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>> The Makita needs it because it is prone to kickbacks as it does not have
>>> a riving knife; and I think the Makita might also cut a bit past 45
>>> degrees (48?), which, both of these issues combined, would make it a
>>> necessity, IMO.
>>
>> Why on Earth would a circular saw on a RAIL need a riving knife for
>> kickback protection? Especially when it's primarily used on panel
>> products which, by nature, don't get the urge to close up like
>> improperly dried hardwood lumber might.
>
>In my estimation, and use of the saw, and because it's a PLUNGE saw, the
>Festool riving knife mitigates the tendency of the saw to kickback
>toward the operator upon a plunge cut away from the edges of a panel (a
>cut I use quite often now that I have the ability to do it easily).
Do you seriously feel that it does any good whatsoever, Swingy? I
can't see how it could. Panel products don't have the internal
stresses that badly dried woods do.
>It is upon the use of this very cut that the Makita's tendency to
>kickback is most notable according to its owners.
Well, yeah, that type of cut would give you the most feedback. But
I've never had much (unless I slip) feedback with my old circ saw
doing plunge cuts, rotating the saw off its butt into the panel.
And that with HF blades! The shame...
Speaking of blades, have you Festering owners tried the Oslun brand of
blades? http://fwd4.me/iqB $20.
>> But if you're hanging the motor off the edge of the rail,
>> I'd think you'd want both clamps for the rail and a catch on the saw
>> to keep it more steady.<shrug>
>
>You would think .. but in actual practice, that thinking goes out the
>window and is inoperative.
OK. I guess the balance is better than I thought.
>A bit of practical, hands on experience with the Festool TS55 and TS75
>would do wonders to remove those erroneous preconceptions. ;)
I got to handle them at the local home center's toolmonger day, but
they didn't have any plugins, so I couldn't hear the DC or cut with
the TS55.
>I have to admit that, as a new user, I was very reluctant to forego
>clamping the rail down prior to making the first few cuts.
>
>After gaining some experience you learn to trust the system for what it
>was designed to do, and you find that you very rarely need to clamp the
>guide rails to the workpiece, even on beveled cuts.
Doesn't sawdust mess with the sticky strips on the guide?
>It's a new way of working ... and thinking.
So it would seem.
--
Know how to listen, and you will
profit even from those who talk badly.
-- Plutarch
On Sat, 23 Oct 2010 17:14:14 -0500, "Leon" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
>"Larry Jaques" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On Thu, 21 Oct 2010 10:59:27 -0500, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>On 10/21/2010 9:52 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>>>
>>>>>> I look for value. In most tools, ultimate performance isn't required.
>>>>>> I'm still casually eyeing Makita's SP6000K when noone's looking. Why
>>>>>> didn't Festool build in an anti-tilt lever for bevel cuts?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Anti-tilt lever?
>>>>
>>>> From their flyer: http://fwd4.me/ige 1.8mb download
>>>>
>>>> "Slide lever built into the saw base locks the saw to the guide
>>>> rail to help support the saw while making bevel cuts."
>>>
>>> From what I've read only:
>>>
>>>The Makita needs it because it is prone to kickbacks as it does not have
>>>a riving knife; and I think the Makita might also cut a bit past 45
>>>degrees (48?), which, both of these issues combined, would make it a
>>>necessity, IMO.
>>
>> Why on Earth would a circular saw on a RAIL need a riving knife for
>> kickback protection? Especially when it's primarily used on panel
>> products which, by nature, don't get the urge to close up like
>> improperly dried hardwood lumber might.
>
>Well first off what makes you think it is only used on panel projects, I
I said "primarily", not "only", Leon.
>have used mine on regular wood also. The Festool saw is meant to cut
>anything you would normally cut with a circular saw, maybe the Makita is
>not.
The Makita is an improved clone. <gd&r> Why wouldn't it be used in
the same manner as a green F unit?
>>>Neither Festool saw needs the "anti-tilt lever" for bevel cuts. I've
>>>done a few of these cuts in plywood and have no idea why one would be
>>>remotely necessary.
>>
>> I haven't yet used one (plugged in) so I can't tell you from
>> experience. But if you're hanging the motor off the edge of the rail,
>> I'd think you'd want both clamps for the rail and a catch on the saw
>> to keep it more steady. <shrug>
>
>At a steep bevel angle the saw will lift off of the sled, IF you let go.
>Under normal operating conditions it has no suprises.
OK. It had appeared to be a useful function...and may be to someone
else.
--
I am an old man, but in many senses a very young man.
And this is what I want you to be, young, young all
your life. -- Pablo Casals
"Larry Jaques" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Thu, 21 Oct 2010 15:38:20 -0500, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>On 10/21/2010 1:17 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>>> On Thu, 21 Oct 2010 10:59:27 -0500, Swingman<[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>> The Makita needs it because it is prone to kickbacks as it does not
>>>> have
>>>> a riving knife; and I think the Makita might also cut a bit past 45
>>>> degrees (48?), which, both of these issues combined, would make it a
>>>> necessity, IMO.
>>>
>>> Why on Earth would a circular saw on a RAIL need a riving knife for
>>> kickback protection? Especially when it's primarily used on panel
>>> products which, by nature, don't get the urge to close up like
>>> improperly dried hardwood lumber might.
>>
>>In my estimation, and use of the saw, and because it's a PLUNGE saw, the
>>Festool riving knife mitigates the tendency of the saw to kickback
>>toward the operator upon a plunge cut away from the edges of a panel (a
>>cut I use quite often now that I have the ability to do it easily).
>
> Do you seriously feel that it does any good whatsoever, Swingy? I
> can't see how it could. Panel products don't have the internal
> stresses that badly dried woods do.
Actually when cutting boards, not just sheet goods, it probably adds to
prevent kick back.
>
> Doesn't sawdust mess with the sticky strips on the guide?
The friction strips are not sticky, work very similar to the friction pads
on the bottom of the Grippers push blocks, they don't slip snf don't attract
dust either.
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
>
> "Mike M" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>>
>> I still have to check and be sure the Rotek is really sanding. Too
>> quiet no dust I'll get used to it eventually. Find I'm really
>> disgusted when I use the belt sander with the mess.
>>
>> Mike M
>
> I don't find it much quieter than my old PC right angle ROS unless you
> are talking about the quiet from the vac also, but it took me about a
> year to get use to no seeing dust. It really does make you wonder if
> you are doing anything until you slide your hand across the surface.
>
How are these on vibration? I can't use half the sanders out there
because they simply vibrate too much.
Puckdropper
--
Never teach your apprentice everything you know.
"RicodJour" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Oct 20, 9:21 pm, "Josepi" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Must be a complex reader that is hard to use.
>>
>> I can read any style just fine.
>>
>> "Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>
>> news:[email protected]...
>> Sorry, but I have given up trying to decipher your posting methods....
>> you just don't seem to want to fit in and that's okay.
>
> Your posts come through top posted, which in a longer post makes it
> tougher to read, and there's no clear quotation marks for the stuff
> you quoted. I don't understand the "I can read any style just fine"
> comment, unless you're saying, "Fuck you." I would think that you'd
> be interested in making it easier for other people to read. I'm sure
> it's just a simple setting that needs to be tweaked.
>
Yep, it is a simple setting.
It is called a kill file.
Do that, you won't have to deal with it. And the rest of us won't have to
either.
On Oct 20, 10:31=A0am, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> "You get what your pay for!"
>
> If you run a woodworking business and buy a Festool etc etc [snipped for =
brevity]
>
> In another five, and ten, after that, it was paid for and you're still
> using a tool that has a lifetime of use left in it.
>
>
> Your choice ... If wwing is a hobby, of course your YMWV.
>
The first Festool sander was bought for a particular need/use for a
nasty (black) solid surface top. I made that one job pay for that
sander... I didn't make a whole lot of net profit as a result, but I
made out just fine with all the other tops afterwards. Also, that
sander allowed me to be less apprehensive when I sold a darker
coloured countertop, so my market widened somewhat.
Aside from reliability and utility, there is capability; jobs you
wouldn't otherwise tackle.
On that note, I just started a project. I will write about it over the
next few days under a separate thread. It's quite mmmmm interesting.
<G> (Can you say OLD-ish building from 1890 which wants to be an Irish
pub? The paint crew started on one of the two facades this Monday. )
"-MIKE-" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 10/20/10 9:34 AM, Leon wrote:
>> So instead of the example you show of the Fein being over 13 times more
>> expensive, it really is only 3 1/2 times more expensive with normal
>> pricing.
>>
>
> I'm not trying to defend the HF, as I have one and know what it is....
> and would much prefer the Fein if it came down to it... but....
>
> Since when is "normal pricing" relevant to anything. The only relevent
> price is what you can expect to pay for something. In the case of the
> HF, that's never higher that $35 bucks, because the thing is always on
> sale. You can walk in the door and ask for the latest coupon or ask them
> to match the website price if it's cheaper.
Just trying to compare apples to apples. While you can expect a discounted
price on HF I wanted to show what HF has on their web site. The Fein goes
on sale also.
The Fein was not $400 the HF was not $60. You can only make an educated
comparison with data at hand.
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 10/18/2010 2:46 PM, Jim in Milwaukee wrote:
>> About a week ago, I was sanding with a PC ROS hooked up to my Shop Vac
>> QSP when the vac decided not to turn off and on with the sander. So off
>> to Woodcraft and came home with a Fein Turbo II. Much better, more
>> suction, etc. This weekend, Friday, went to Woodcraft for their open
>> house/sale. Sunday, the sander decided to random orbit about 10 times a
>> minute. Had the sander had any compassion, it would have died Thursday.
>> Today, off to Woodcraft again. Now the proud owner of a Festool ETS 125
>> EQ ROS. What a difference.
>
> I've got the RO 125, the RTS 400, and the DTS 400. There is a new one that
> is being sold in Europe, the RO 90, that is supposedly due in NA soon,
> that will be next on my list:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66dWpd-6tm4
>
> Amazing how much time these sanders save on a project ... and how much
> cleanup time, to boot.
Damn, I thought it was only a smaller version of the bigger Rotex sanders
but a detail sander too.
On Wed, 20 Oct 2010 09:34:24 -0500, "Leon" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
>"Larry Jaques" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On Tue, 19 Oct 2010 21:21:50 -0700 (PDT), Robatoy
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> I, too, can appreciate a good tool, but it rankles me to no end that
>> some toolmakers (Fein, Festool, and others) price theirs 2x to 20x
>> above the rest.
>>
>> Other than greed, I cannot fathom why Fein would price a tool at $400
>> when a nearly identical one is imported and sold by HF for $30.
>> Granted, a tool utilizing a brand-new, good idea is worth more than an
>> everyday tool, but 12x. How does that saying go? "...and the horse
>> that rode in on them." or something.
>
>
>Think Yugo vs. BMW
>
>Both get you there but which is going to last and deliver the precision?
Certainly _neither_. Beemers are extremely overrated. I think of them
as the Thompson's WaterSeal of Automobiles.
>Additionally the HF tool has a regular price of $60 now and is on sale for
>$40.
>http://www.harborfreight.com/multifunction-power-tool-67256.html
>
>And The Fein Multimaster can be had for $209 shipped and equipped with
>similar blades as the above tool.
>http://www.amazon.com/Fein-MultiMaster-250-Start-Scraping/dp/B000U8Q812/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1287584793&sr=8-3
>
>So instead of the example you show of the Fein being over 13 times more
>expensive, it really is only 3 1/2 times more expensive with normal pricing.
When Fein came out with them, they cost $400+. I hadn't checked the
price since, so mea culpa. But with this month's sales, HF's is
$29.95 and the Fein is still seven times more expensive, more if you
have a 20% off coupon from HF, too.
>I see your point, if you don't need a the features of a premium tool, get
>the cheapo one. But if you don't have time to deal with a tool that may
>waist your time the better quality is the better bet. Basically you get
>what you pay for.
I look for value. In most tools, ultimate performance isn't required.
I'm still casually eyeing Makita's SP6000K when noone's looking. Why
didn't Festool build in an anti-tilt lever for bevel cuts?
--
Know how to listen, and you will
profit even from those who talk badly.
-- Plutarch
On Sat, 23 Oct 2010 23:43:06 -0500, "Leon" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
>"Larry Jaques" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>>>Actually when cutting boards, not just sheet goods, it probably adds to
>>>prevent kick back.
>>
>> How often do you rip boards with it? 1/2% of the time? 1/4%?
>
>
>So far 50%
Amazing.
>That is going to become a smaller number however as I have a bunch of panel
>projects coming up.
Ayup.
How about you other 55 and 75 owners? What's your ripping quotient?
--
An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile,
hoping it will eat him last.
-- Sir Winston Churchill
On Wed, 27 Oct 2010 10:08:22 GMT, scatter
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Larry Jaques <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> How about you other 55 and 75 owners? What's your ripping quotient?
>>
>I have a protool (made by festool) non-plunge saw with riving knife.
>It's become my main saw (with tracks and an older MFT) for everything
>including ripping. I'm one of those people without a table saw though. I
>do a lot of plywood so my ripping solid timber is probably more like
>10%.
Thanks for the feedback.
>It'd be nice if festool was better at handling rips of long narrow
>pieces - their system really requires support pieces and the workpiece
I take it that you don't have the Festool MFT table?
>clamped to a surface. (in that application I think the eurekazone system
>has an edge with it's dual clamping tracks underneath.
I hadn't heard of Eurekazone until now. Festering prices there, too,
eh? Do you own one of these as well?
--
Most people assume the fights are going to be the left versus the right,
but it always is the reasonable versus the jerks.
-- Jimmy Wales
Larry Jaques <[email protected]> wrote:
> I take it that you don't have the Festool MFT table?
I do. It's an older mft800. It's great for cross cutting or for working
on pieces already cut so that they'll fit on the table. Believe it or
not, it's best feature for me are the precision placed holes. It's
trivial to make 90 or 45 degree cuts. Guides and stop blocks are easy to
clamp down.
> I hadn't heard of Eurekazone until now. Festering prices there, too,
> eh? Do you own one of these as well?
Yeah, it's what I started with many years ago. The tracks and clamps are
good but I was disappointed by the workmanship of many accessories. I
use my 2 Ezone tracks for cutting stuff down to size or for long, very
thin rips.
Larry Jaques <[email protected]> wrote:
> How about you other 55 and 75 owners? What's your ripping quotient?
>
I have a protool (made by festool) non-plunge saw with riving knife.
It's become my main saw (with tracks and an older MFT) for everything
including ripping. I'm one of those people without a table saw though. I
do a lot of plywood so my ripping solid timber is probably more like
10%. It'd be nice if festool was better at handling rips of long narrow
pieces - their system really requires support pieces and the workpiece
clamped to a surface. (in that application I think the eurekazone system
has an edge with it's dual clamping tracks underneath.
"Larry Jaques" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 20 Oct 2010 09:34:24 -0500, "Leon" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Larry Jaques" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]...
>>> On Tue, 19 Oct 2010 21:21:50 -0700 (PDT), Robatoy
>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>Think Yugo vs. BMW
>>
>>Both get you there but which is going to last and deliver the precision?
>
> Certainly _neither_. Beemers are extremely overrated. I think of them
> as the Thompson's WaterSeal of Automobiles.
>
> I look for value. In most tools, ultimate performance isn't required.
> I'm still casually eyeing Makita's SP6000K when noone's looking. Why
> didn't Festool build in an anti-tilt lever for bevel cuts?
Anti-tilt lever?
"Larry Jaques" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Tue, 19 Oct 2010 21:21:50 -0700 (PDT), Robatoy
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> I, too, can appreciate a good tool, but it rankles me to no end that
> some toolmakers (Fein, Festool, and others) price theirs 2x to 20x
> above the rest.
>
> Other than greed, I cannot fathom why Fein would price a tool at $400
> when a nearly identical one is imported and sold by HF for $30.
> Granted, a tool utilizing a brand-new, good idea is worth more than an
> everyday tool, but 12x. How does that saying go? "...and the horse
> that rode in on them." or something.
Think Yugo vs. BMW
Both get you there but which is going to last and deliver the precision?
Additionally the HF tool has a regular price of $60 now and is on sale for
$40.
http://www.harborfreight.com/multifunction-power-tool-67256.html
And The Fein Multimaster can be had for $209 shipped and equipped with
similar blades as the above tool.
http://www.amazon.com/Fein-MultiMaster-250-Start-Scraping/dp/B000U8Q812/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1287584793&sr=8-3
So instead of the example you show of the Fein being over 13 times more
expensive, it really is only 3 1/2 times more expensive with normal pricing.
I see your point, if you don't need a the features of a premium tool, get
the cheapo one. But if you don't have time to deal with a tool that may
waist your time the better quality is the better bet. Basically you get
what you pay for.
On 10/24/2010 3:30 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Sun, 24 Oct 2010 09:17:55 -0500, Swingman wrote:
>> I'm of the opposite opinion ... Anti-tilt on the Makita is totally
>> unnecessary when the saw is operated properly, and most dangerous when not.
>> This flexing of a long guide will guarantee kick back (yes C-less, even
>> in sheet goods) and particularly so on a saw with no riving knife.
> My opinion is that you're overstating things along this line.
You're certainly welcome to your opinion. Mine is based on considerable
use and operation of the particular genre of tool (rail guided plunge
saw) ... yours, admittedly not.
Anyone is free to decide for themselves which opinion has the most merit.
> Safe and
> proper operation should be a "given" hypothesis.
The only time "safe and proper operation" becomes a "given hypothesis"
is immediately following the first accident ...
> Either that or they think "Dayum, this saw cost so much, it couldn't
> have kicked back unless I was doing something wrong. I won't say
> anything about it because it's _all_my_fault_!"<snort>
What is indeed a "given" is that these tools are not for everyone.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)
On 10/27/2010 12:49 PM, Lee Michaels wrote:
>
>
> "Swingman" wrote
> The ultimate demonization of a tool would be the radial arm saw. I grew
> up around them and used them for many years without any kind of problem.
> But many folks, who don't understand that spinning saw blades are
> inherently dangerous, cut off portions of their anatomy with them.
> Therefore, these saws are "bad". Or at least, politically incorrect.
I used a RAS almost exclusively as the 'goto' tool to build a couple of
recording studios years ago. Have always have had a healthy respect for
the tool, and got excellent results using it. (I don't think there was
such a thing as a SCMS in those days)
That said, the pucker factor still goes up to this day when I see/got to
use a RAS, which is probably a good thing.
That said, a router with a big bit, or an angle or taper cut on the
table saw can flex the sphincter just as easily as the RAS for me.
> Now we see another process at work. A super critical perspective of
> tools "that cost too much". But cost is relative. The folks who buy many
> tools are using them for their business. If the tool isn't doing its
> job, you would hear about it.
Quality is expensive upfront, cheap over the useful life of the tool.
> I may lust after tools I can't afford. But I am not going to whine about
> the tools because it is not in my price range. Nor am I going to whine
> about it if I can not justify the expense of the tool based on my
> current or future use of such a tool. If these tools did not perform a
> useful function, they would cease to be a viable product to manufacture
> and distribute.
>
> Nuff said, end of rant.
Good rant ... I buy whatever it makes business sense to buy to do the
best job possible in the most efficient manner, and always try to build
a purchase into the price of a job, or two.
When the pleasure from using a tool coincides with a legitimate business
justification to purchase it, it feels good on all counts, including the
fact that you're doing something right. :)
That counts for all "tools", from hand to software.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)
"Swingman" wrote
>
> What is indeed a "given" is that these tools are not for everyone.
>
Then there is the "given" that some people should never operate power tools
under any circumstances.
From there, I suppose, there is a continuum of comfort level for each kind
of tool. And there is a whole lot of hysteria and emotion concerning
different types and classes of tools.
The ultimate demonization of a tool would be the radial arm saw. I grew up
around them and used them for many years without any kind of problem. But
many folks, who don't understand that spinning saw blades are inherently
dangerous, cut off portions of their anatomy with them. Therefore, these
saws are "bad". Or at least, politically incorrect.
Now we see another process at work. A super critical perspective of tools
"that cost too much". But cost is relative. The folks who buy many tools
are using them for their business. If the tool isn't doing its job, you
would hear about it.
I may lust after tools I can't afford. But I am not going to whine about the
tools because it is not in my price range. Nor am I going to whine about it
if I can not justify the expense of the tool based on my current or future
use of such a tool. If these tools did not perform a useful function, they
would cease to be a viable product to manufacture and distribute.
Nuff said, end of rant.
On Sun, 24 Oct 2010 09:17:55 -0500, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>On 10/23/2010 11:44 PM, Leon wrote:
>> "Larry Jaques"<[email protected]> wrote in message
>
>>>> At a steep bevel angle the saw will lift off of the sled, IF you let go.
>>>> Under normal operating conditions it has no suprises.
>>>
>>> OK. It had appeared to be a useful function...and may be to someone
>>> else.
>>
>>
>> It probably is a good idea, but not a necessary one.
>
>I'm of the opposite opinion ... Anti-tilt on the Makita is totally
>unnecessary when the saw is operated properly, and most dangerous when not.
>
>The "anti-tilt" is a good idea ONLY on very short bevel cuts, ONLY if
>the guide rail is clamped to the work piece and the underlying
>cutting/table surface, ONLY if the saw is being improperly operated on
>the short cut, and, more to the point, ONLY because it has no riving knife.
>
>In the middle of a _long_ bevel cut, and since guide rails are clamped
>only at the ends, no anti-tilt lever made will keep a long guide rail
>from flexing slightly and lifting off the work piece without proper
>handling by the operator.
>
>This flexing of a long guide will guarantee kick back (yes C-less, even
>in sheet goods) and particularly so on a saw with no riving knife.
>
>(simply holding either saw securely, and with a consistent down and
>forward motion it proper operation, and is all that is necessary with a
>saw equipped with a riving knife)
>
>Any piece of equipment must be operated properly, and anything that
>gives the operator a false sense of security often ends up extremely
>dangerous.
My opinion is that you're overstating things along this line. Safe and
proper operation should be a "given" hypothesis.
>You can bet that this is one of the reasons you rarely hear about a
>kickback problem with either Festool plunge saw.
Either that or they think "Dayum, this saw cost so much, it couldn't
have kicked back unless I was doing something wrong. I won't say
anything about it because it's _all_my_fault_!" <snort>
--
An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile,
hoping it will eat him last.
-- Sir Winston Churchill
On 10/20/2010 8:39 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
> Same here, but I can easily get by with HF (and American-made) tools
> for most work. I needed a -good- impactor and have had both Bosch and
> Makita now. Both were both necessary and worth it. I'm not retired,
> I's just po workin' folk.
>
>
>> has raised the bar quite high. I love a good tool as much as the next
>> guy, and I could (most of the time) justify buying Festool grade
>> tools. No tool works harder or smarter than a Festool.
>
> I, too, can appreciate a good tool, but it rankles me to no end that
> some toolmakers (Fein, Festool, and others) price theirs 2x to 20x
> above the rest.
> How does that saying go? "...and the horse
> that rode in on them." or something.
My favorite, much more true and to the point:
"You get what your pay for!"
If you run a woodworking business and buy a Festool TS75 for $500. In
five years time it will have been instrumental in making you a minimum
of $200k. It has cost you thus far $4/month for unparalleled utility and
reliability.
In another five, and ten, after that, it was paid for and you're still
using a tool that has a lifetime of use left in it.
Try that with your HF tool ...
I have an Omer nailer, and a HF nailer of the same ilk ... vast
difference in cost/quality, but one is disposable and the other will be
working for my grandkids kids and won't leave me stranded on a job site
200 miles from the shop.
Your choice ... If wwing is a hobby, of course your YMWV.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)
On 10/20/2010 9:31 AM, Swingman wrote:
> If you run a woodworking business and buy a Festool TS75 for $500. In
> five years time it will have been instrumental in making you a minimum
> of $200k. It has cost you thus far $4/month for unparalleled utility and
> reliability.
Correction: That's five inches and one and a half sixteenths, or $10/month.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)
On 10/18/2010 2:46 PM, Jim in Milwaukee wrote:
> About a week ago, I was sanding with a PC ROS hooked up to my Shop Vac
> QSP when the vac decided not to turn off and on with the sander. So off
> to Woodcraft and came home with a Fein Turbo II. Much better, more
> suction, etc. This weekend, Friday, went to Woodcraft for their open
> house/sale. Sunday, the sander decided to random orbit about 10 times a
> minute. Had the sander had any compassion, it would have died Thursday.
> Today, off to Woodcraft again. Now the proud owner of a Festool ETS 125
> EQ ROS. What a difference.
I've got the RO 125, the RTS 400, and the DTS 400. There is a new one
that is being sold in Europe, the RO 90, that is supposedly due in NA
soon, that will be next on my list:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66dWpd-6tm4
Amazing how much time these sanders save on a project ... and how much
cleanup time, to boot.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)
Must be a complex reader that is hard to use.
I can read any style just fine.
"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
Sorry, but I have given up trying to decipher your posting methods....
you just don't seem to want to fit in and that's okay.
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
>
> Maybe we should place an entry on wikipedia for "oak rust"??
Oak rust don't hold a candle to Jummywood rust . . .
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 10/20/2010 9:31 AM, Swingman wrote:
>
>> If you run a woodworking business and buy a Festool TS75 for $500. In
>> five years time it will have been instrumental in making you a minimum
>> of $200k. It has cost you thus far $4/month for unparalleled utility and
>> reliability.
>
> Correction: That's five inches and one and a half sixteenths, or
> $10/month.
Crap! you are really leaving me behind with your fancy math, I'da thought
163/32's or maybe 129 and one third mm's.
Plain mm's
;~)
On 10/18/2010 4:24 PM, Swingman wrote:
> On 10/18/2010 2:46 PM, Jim in Milwaukee wrote:
>> About a week ago, I was sanding with a PC ROS hooked up to my Shop Vac
>> QSP when the vac decided not to turn off and on with the sander. So off
>> to Woodcraft and came home with a Fein Turbo II. Much better, more
>> suction, etc. This weekend, Friday, went to Woodcraft for their open
>> house/sale. Sunday, the sander decided to random orbit about 10 times a
>> minute. Had the sander had any compassion, it would have died Thursday.
>> Today, off to Woodcraft again. Now the proud owner of a Festool ETS 125
>> EQ ROS. What a difference.
>
> I've got the RO 125, the RTS 400, and the DTS 400. There is a new one
> that is being sold in Europe, the RO 90, that is supposedly due in NA
> soon, that will be next on my list:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66dWpd-6tm4
>
> Amazing how much time these sanders save on a project ... and how much
> cleanup time, to boot.
>
I agree on the time and cleanup.
Jim
On 10/18/2010 6:39 PM, Leon wrote:
> "Swingman"<[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> On 10/18/2010 2:46 PM, Jim in Milwaukee wrote:
>>> About a week ago, I was sanding with a PC ROS hooked up to my Shop Vac
>>> QSP when the vac decided not to turn off and on with the sander. So off
>>> to Woodcraft and came home with a Fein Turbo II. Much better, more
>>> suction, etc. This weekend, Friday, went to Woodcraft for their open
>>> house/sale. Sunday, the sander decided to random orbit about 10 times a
>>> minute. Had the sander had any compassion, it would have died Thursday.
>>> Today, off to Woodcraft again. Now the proud owner of a Festool ETS 125
>>> EQ ROS. What a difference.
>>
>> I've got the RO 125, the RTS 400, and the DTS 400. There is a new one that
>> is being sold in Europe, the RO 90, that is supposedly due in NA soon,
>> that will be next on my list:
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66dWpd-6tm4
>>
>> Amazing how much time these sanders save on a project ... and how much
>> cleanup time, to boot.
>
>
> Damn, I thought it was only a smaller version of the bigger Rotex sanders
> but a detail sander too.
>
>
Wonder what the price tag will be on this one.
Jim
"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
On Oct 19, 4:30 pm, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Jim in Milwaukee" <[email protected]> wrote in
> messagenews:[email protected]...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 10/18/2010 6:39 PM, Leon wrote:
> >> "Swingman"<[email protected]> wrote in message
> >>news:[email protected]...
> >>> On 10/18/2010 2:46 PM, Jim in Milwaukee wrote:
> >>>> About a week ago, I was sanding with a PC ROS hooked up to my Shop
> >>>> Vac
> >>>> QSP when the vac decided not to turn off and on with the sander. So
> >>>> off
> >>>> to Woodcraft and came home with a Fein Turbo II. Much better, more
> >>>> suction, etc. This weekend, Friday, went to Woodcraft for their open
> >>>> house/sale. Sunday, the sander decided to random orbit about 10 times
> >>>> a
> >>>> minute. Had the sander had any compassion, it would have died
> >>>> Thursday.
> >>>> Today, off to Woodcraft again. Now the proud owner of a Festool ETS
> >>>> 125
> >>>> EQ ROS. What a difference.
>
> >>> I've got the RO 125, the RTS 400, and the DTS 400. There is a new one
> >>> that
> >>> is being sold in Europe, the RO 90, that is supposedly due in NA soon,
> >>> that will be next on my list:
>
> >>>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66dWpd-6tm4
>
> >>> Amazing how much time these sanders save on a project ... and how much
> >>> cleanup time, to boot.
>
> >> Damn, I thought it was only a smaller version of the bigger Rotex
> >> sanders
> >> but a detail sander too.
>
> > Wonder what the price tag will be on this one.
>
> My guess between $375 and $475.
Under 400... has to be.
If you assume that it should be less expensive as it is smaller than the
others but this thing also has a third ossilation mode for detail sanding
along with an extra sanding pad.
On 10/21/2010 1:17 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Thu, 21 Oct 2010 10:59:27 -0500, Swingman<[email protected]> wrote:
>> The Makita needs it because it is prone to kickbacks as it does not have
>> a riving knife; and I think the Makita might also cut a bit past 45
>> degrees (48?), which, both of these issues combined, would make it a
>> necessity, IMO.
>
> Why on Earth would a circular saw on a RAIL need a riving knife for
> kickback protection? Especially when it's primarily used on panel
> products which, by nature, don't get the urge to close up like
> improperly dried hardwood lumber might.
In my estimation, and use of the saw, and because it's a PLUNGE saw, the
Festool riving knife mitigates the tendency of the saw to kickback
toward the operator upon a plunge cut away from the edges of a panel (a
cut I use quite often now that I have the ability to do it easily).
It is upon the use of this very cut that the Makita's tendency to
kickback is most notable according to its owners.
>
>> Neither Festool saw needs the "anti-tilt lever" for bevel cuts. I've
>> done a few of these cuts in plywood and have no idea why one would be
>> remotely necessary.
>
> I haven't yet used one (plugged in) so I can't tell you from
> experience.
But I can ...
> But if you're hanging the motor off the edge of the rail,
> I'd think you'd want both clamps for the rail and a catch on the saw
> to keep it more steady.<shrug>
You would think .. but in actual practice, that thinking goes out the
window and is inoperative.
A bit of practical, hands on experience with the Festool TS55 and TS75
would do wonders to remove those erroneous preconceptions. ;)
I have to admit that, as a new user, I was very reluctant to forego
clamping the rail down prior to making the first few cuts.
After gaining some experience you learn to trust the system for what it
was designed to do, and you find that you very rarely need to clamp the
guide rails to the workpiece, even on beveled cuts.
It's a new way of working ... and thinking.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)
On Oct 21, 4:38=A0pm, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 10/21/2010 1:17 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>
> > On Thu, 21 Oct 2010 10:59:27 -0500, Swingman<[email protected]> =A0wrote:
> >> The Makita needs it because it is prone to kickbacks as it does not ha=
ve
> >> a riving knife; and I think the Makita might also cut a bit past 45
> >> degrees (48?), which, both of these issues combined, would make it a
> >> necessity, IMO.
>
> > Why on Earth would a circular saw on a RAIL need a riving knife for
> > kickback protection? =A0Especially when it's primarily used on panel
> > products which, by nature, don't get the urge to close up like
> > improperly dried hardwood lumber might.
>
> In my estimation, and use of the saw, and because it's a PLUNGE saw, the
> Festool riving knife mitigates the tendency of the saw to kickback
> toward the operator upon a plunge cut away from the edges of a panel (a
> cut I use quite often now that I have the ability to do it easily).
>
> It is upon the use of this very cut that the Makita's tendency to
> kickback is most notable according to its owners.
>
>
>
> >> Neither Festool saw needs the "anti-tilt lever" for bevel cuts. I've
> >> done a few of these cuts in plywood and have no idea why one would be
> >> remotely necessary.
>
> > I haven't yet used one (plugged in) so I can't tell you from
> > experience.
>
> But I can ...
>
> > But if you're hanging the motor off the edge of the rail,
> > I'd think you'd want both clamps for the rail and a catch on the saw
> > to keep it more steady.<shrug>
>
> You would think .. but in actual practice, that thinking goes out the
> window and is inoperative.
>
> A bit of practical, hands on experience with the Festool TS55 and TS75
> would do wonders to remove those erroneous preconceptions. ;)
>
> I have to admit that, as a new user, I was very reluctant to forego
> clamping the rail down prior to making the first few cuts.
Yep. The first couple of times I was thinking, "This is too easy."
The next few cuts, and all of the cuts after that, I was thinking,
"I'm a schmuck for not getting this earlier."
R
"Larry Jaques" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Thu, 21 Oct 2010 10:59:27 -0500, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>On 10/21/2010 9:52 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>>
>>>>> I look for value. In most tools, ultimate performance isn't required.
>>>>> I'm still casually eyeing Makita's SP6000K when noone's looking. Why
>>>>> didn't Festool build in an anti-tilt lever for bevel cuts?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Anti-tilt lever?
>>>
>>> From their flyer: http://fwd4.me/ige 1.8mb download
>>>
>>> "Slide lever built into the saw base locks the saw to the guide
>>> rail to help support the saw while making bevel cuts."
>>
>> From what I've read only:
>>
>>The Makita needs it because it is prone to kickbacks as it does not have
>>a riving knife; and I think the Makita might also cut a bit past 45
>>degrees (48?), which, both of these issues combined, would make it a
>>necessity, IMO.
>
> Why on Earth would a circular saw on a RAIL need a riving knife for
> kickback protection? Especially when it's primarily used on panel
> products which, by nature, don't get the urge to close up like
> improperly dried hardwood lumber might.
Well first off what makes you think it is only used on panel projects, I
have used mine on regular wood also. The Festool saw is meant to cut
anything you would normally cut with a circular saw, maybe the Makita is
not.
>
>>Neither Festool saw needs the "anti-tilt lever" for bevel cuts. I've
>>done a few of these cuts in plywood and have no idea why one would be
>>remotely necessary.
>
> I haven't yet used one (plugged in) so I can't tell you from
> experience. But if you're hanging the motor off the edge of the rail,
> I'd think you'd want both clamps for the rail and a catch on the saw
> to keep it more steady. <shrug>
At a steep bevel angle the saw will lift off of the sled, IF you let go.
Under normal operating conditions it has no suprises.
>
On Thu, 21 Oct 2010 10:59:27 -0500, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>On 10/21/2010 9:52 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>
>>>> I look for value. In most tools, ultimate performance isn't required.
>>>> I'm still casually eyeing Makita's SP6000K when noone's looking. Why
>>>> didn't Festool build in an anti-tilt lever for bevel cuts?
>>>
>>>
>>> Anti-tilt lever?
>>
>> From their flyer: http://fwd4.me/ige 1.8mb download
>>
>> "Slide lever built into the saw base locks the saw to the guide
>> rail to help support the saw while making bevel cuts."
>
> From what I've read only:
>
>The Makita needs it because it is prone to kickbacks as it does not have
>a riving knife; and I think the Makita might also cut a bit past 45
>degrees (48?), which, both of these issues combined, would make it a
>necessity, IMO.
Why on Earth would a circular saw on a RAIL need a riving knife for
kickback protection? Especially when it's primarily used on panel
products which, by nature, don't get the urge to close up like
improperly dried hardwood lumber might.
>Neither Festool saw needs the "anti-tilt lever" for bevel cuts. I've
>done a few of these cuts in plywood and have no idea why one would be
>remotely necessary.
I haven't yet used one (plugged in) so I can't tell you from
experience. But if you're hanging the motor off the edge of the rail,
I'd think you'd want both clamps for the rail and a catch on the saw
to keep it more steady. <shrug>
--
Know how to listen, and you will
profit even from those who talk badly.
-- Plutarch
"Jim in Milwaukee" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> On 10/18/2010 6:39 PM, Leon wrote:
>> "Swingman"<[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> On 10/18/2010 2:46 PM, Jim in Milwaukee wrote:
>>>> About a week ago, I was sanding with a PC ROS hooked up to my Shop Vac
>>>> QSP when the vac decided not to turn off and on with the sander. So off
>>>> to Woodcraft and came home with a Fein Turbo II. Much better, more
>>>> suction, etc. This weekend, Friday, went to Woodcraft for their open
>>>> house/sale. Sunday, the sander decided to random orbit about 10 times a
>>>> minute. Had the sander had any compassion, it would have died Thursday.
>>>> Today, off to Woodcraft again. Now the proud owner of a Festool ETS 125
>>>> EQ ROS. What a difference.
>>>
>>> I've got the RO 125, the RTS 400, and the DTS 400. There is a new one
>>> that
>>> is being sold in Europe, the RO 90, that is supposedly due in NA soon,
>>> that will be next on my list:
>>>
>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66dWpd-6tm4
>>>
>>> Amazing how much time these sanders save on a project ... and how much
>>> cleanup time, to boot.
>>
>>
>> Damn, I thought it was only a smaller version of the bigger Rotex sanders
>> but a detail sander too.
>>
>>
> Wonder what the price tag will be on this one.
>
My guess between $375 and $475.
On Thu, 21 Oct 2010 09:04:13 -0500, "Leon" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
>"Larry Jaques" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On Wed, 20 Oct 2010 09:34:24 -0500, "Leon" <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Larry Jaques" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>news:[email protected]...
>>>> On Tue, 19 Oct 2010 21:21:50 -0700 (PDT), Robatoy
>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>Think Yugo vs. BMW
>>>
>>>Both get you there but which is going to last and deliver the precision?
>>
>> Certainly _neither_. Beemers are extremely overrated. I think of them
>> as the Thompson's WaterSeal of Automobiles.
>
>>
>> I look for value. In most tools, ultimate performance isn't required.
>> I'm still casually eyeing Makita's SP6000K when noone's looking. Why
>> didn't Festool build in an anti-tilt lever for bevel cuts?
>
>
>Anti-tilt lever?
From their flyer: http://fwd4.me/ige 1.8mb download
"Slide lever built into the saw base locks the saw to the guide
rail to help support the saw while making bevel cuts."
--
Know how to listen, and you will
profit even from those who talk badly.
-- Plutarch
On Wed, 20 Oct 2010 11:17:11 -0700 (PDT), Robatoy
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Oct 20, 11:49 am, -MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On 10/20/10 9:34 AM, Leon wrote:
>>
>> > So instead of the example you show of the Fein being over 13 times more
>> > expensive, it really is only 3 1/2 times more expensive with normal pricing.
>>
>> I'm not trying to defend the HF, as I have one and know what it is....
>> and would much prefer the Fein if it came down to it... but....
>>
>> Since when is "normal pricing" relevant to anything. The only relevent
>> price is what you can expect to pay for something. In the case of the
>> HF, that's never higher that $35 bucks, because the thing is always on
>> sale. You can walk in the door and ask for the latest coupon or ask them
>> to match the website price if it's cheaper.
>>
>> Drum equipment manufactures are notorious for having ridiculously,
>> artificially inflated retail list prices. Cymbals, heads, etc., always
>> have a sale price of 50% off list. I'm not going to pretend the normal
>> price of a pair of sticks is 14 bucks, when I know they always sell for $7.
>>
>> In the case of Fein, their quality speaks on its own. Being 3-1/2 or 6
>> times as expensive is irrelevant in the debate, to me, at least.
>>
>The Feins don't gum up with oak rust quite as fast.
HAH! I've used my HF at least a dozen times seriously now, and I've
yet to see one single granule of oak rust anywhere around it or on it.
So there, Mr. Smartypants.
--
Know how to listen, and you will
profit even from those who talk badly.
-- Plutarch
On 10/21/2010 9:52 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>>> I look for value. In most tools, ultimate performance isn't required.
>>> I'm still casually eyeing Makita's SP6000K when noone's looking. Why
>>> didn't Festool build in an anti-tilt lever for bevel cuts?
>>
>>
>> Anti-tilt lever?
>
> From their flyer: http://fwd4.me/ige 1.8mb download
>
> "Slide lever built into the saw base locks the saw to the guide
> rail to help support the saw while making bevel cuts."
From what I've read only:
The Makita needs it because it is prone to kickbacks as it does not have
a riving knife; and I think the Makita might also cut a bit past 45
degrees (48?), which, both of these issues combined, would make it a
necessity, IMO.
Neither Festool saw needs the "anti-tilt lever" for bevel cuts. I've
done a few of these cuts in plywood and have no idea why one would be
remotely necessary.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)
That was quick. I rest my case.
"Lee Michaels" <leemichaels*nadaspam* at comcast dot net> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
It is called a kill file.
Do that, you won't have to deal with it. And the rest of us won't have to
either.
"Mike M" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Mon, 18 Oct 2010 16:24:56 -0500, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>On 10/18/2010 2:46 PM, Jim in Milwaukee wrote:
>>> About a week ago, I was sanding with a PC ROS hooked up to my Shop Vac
>>> QSP when the vac decided not to turn off and on with the sander. So off
>>> to Woodcraft and came home with a Fein Turbo II. Much better, more
>>> suction, etc. This weekend, Friday, went to Woodcraft for their open
>>> house/sale. Sunday, the sander decided to random orbit about 10 times a
>>> minute. Had the sander had any compassion, it would have died Thursday.
>>> Today, off to Woodcraft again. Now the proud owner of a Festool ETS 125
>>> EQ ROS. What a difference.
>>
>>I've got the RO 125, the RTS 400, and the DTS 400. There is a new one
>>that is being sold in Europe, the RO 90, that is supposedly due in NA
>>soon, that will be next on my list:
>>
>>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66dWpd-6tm4
>>
>>Amazing how much time these sanders save on a project ... and how much
>>cleanup time, to boot.
>
>
> I still have to check and be sure the Rotek is really sanding. Too
> quiet no dust I'll get used to it eventually. Find I'm really
> disgusted when I use the belt sander with the mess.
>
> Mike M
I don't find it much quieter than my old PC right angle ROS unless you are
talking about the quiet from the vac also, but it took me about a year to
get use to no seeing dust. It really does make you wonder if you are doing
anything until you slide your hand across the surface.
On Mon, 18 Oct 2010 16:24:56 -0500, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>On 10/18/2010 2:46 PM, Jim in Milwaukee wrote:
>> About a week ago, I was sanding with a PC ROS hooked up to my Shop Vac
>> QSP when the vac decided not to turn off and on with the sander. So off
>> to Woodcraft and came home with a Fein Turbo II. Much better, more
>> suction, etc. This weekend, Friday, went to Woodcraft for their open
>> house/sale. Sunday, the sander decided to random orbit about 10 times a
>> minute. Had the sander had any compassion, it would have died Thursday.
>> Today, off to Woodcraft again. Now the proud owner of a Festool ETS 125
>> EQ ROS. What a difference.
>
>I've got the RO 125, the RTS 400, and the DTS 400. There is a new one
>that is being sold in Europe, the RO 90, that is supposedly due in NA
>soon, that will be next on my list:
>
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66dWpd-6tm4
>
>Amazing how much time these sanders save on a project ... and how much
>cleanup time, to boot.
I still have to check and be sure the Rotek is really sanding. Too
quiet no dust I'll get used to it eventually. Find I'm really
disgusted when I use the belt sander with the mess.
Mike M
It also helps identify the trolls very quickly.
No need to change to match them.
"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
Ahhhhh!! Brilliant deduction. Not that he doesn't want to change,
he's not able...Bingo!
On Oct 18, 5:24=A0pm, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 10/18/2010 2:46 PM, Jim in Milwaukee wrote:
>
> > About a week ago, I was sanding with a PC ROS hooked up to my Shop Vac
> > QSP when the vac decided not to turn off and on with the sander. So off
> > to Woodcraft and came home with a Fein Turbo II. Much better, more
> > suction, etc. This weekend, Friday, went to Woodcraft for their open
> > house/sale. Sunday, the sander decided to random orbit about 10 times a
> > minute. Had the sander had any compassion, it would have died Thursday.
> > Today, off to Woodcraft again. Now the proud owner of a Festool ETS 125
> > EQ ROS. What a difference.
>
> I've got the RO 125, the RTS 400, and the DTS 400. There is a new one
> that is being sold in Europe, the RO 90, that is supposedly due in NA
> soon, that will be next on my list:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D66dWpd-6tm4
>
> Amazing how much time these sanders save on a project ... and how much
> cleanup time, to boot.
>
> --www.e-woodshop.net
> Last update: 4/15/2010
> KarlC@ (the obvious)
sunsabitches....... I neeeeeed one.
On Oct 20, 9:21=A0pm, "Josepi" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Must be a complex reader that is hard to use.
>
> I can read any style just fine.
>
> "Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...
> Sorry, but I have given up trying to decipher your posting methods....
> you just don't seem to want to fit in and that's okay.
Your posts come through top posted, which in a longer post makes it
tougher to read, and there's no clear quotation marks for the stuff
you quoted. I don't understand the "I can read any style just fine"
comment, unless you're saying, "Fuck you." I would think that you'd
be interested in making it easier for other people to read. I'm sure
it's just a simple setting that needs to be tweaked.
R
Maybe we should place an entry on wikipedia for "oak rust"??
"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:ff8dd66f-4da8-4e73-8019-bd68b1cea009@l20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
The Feins don't gum up with oak rust quite as fast.
On Oct 20, 8:33=A0pm, "Josepi" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Maybe we should place an entry on wikipedia for "oak rust"??
>
> "Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:ff8dd66f-4da8-4e73-8019-bd68b1cea009@l20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
> The Feins don't gum up with oak rust quite as fast.
Sorry, but I have given up trying to decipher your posting methods....
you just don't seem to want to fit in and that's okay.
On Oct 21, 11:51=A0pm, Steve Turner <[email protected]>
wrote:
> On 10/21/2010 12:44 PM, RicodJour wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Oct 20, 9:21 pm, "Josepi"<[email protected]> =A0wrote:
> >> Must be a complex reader that is hard to use.
>
> >> I can read any style just fine.
>
> >> "Robatoy"<[email protected]> =A0wrote in message
>
> >>news:[email protected]..=
.
> >> Sorry, but I have given up trying to decipher your posting methods....
> >> you just don't seem to want to fit in and that's okay.
>
> > Your posts come through top posted, which in a longer post makes it
> > tougher to read, and there's no clear quotation marks for the stuff
> > you quoted. =A0I don't understand the "I can read any style just fine"
> > comment, unless you're saying, "Fuck you." =A0 I would think that you'd
> > be interested in making it easier for other people to read. =A0I'm sure
> > it's just a simple setting that needs to be tweaked.
>
> > R
>
> I for one try real hard to give people the benefit of the doubt, and beca=
use he
> does post on-topic at least half the time, I (and several others) have tr=
ied
> many times (more times than he deserves) to convince this dipshit to use =
a
> helpful posting style, but he flat-out refuses. =A0He thinks it's a funny=
little
> game, and he's just "oh so amused" that so many people have such a proble=
m with
> it. =A0The more that people bitch at him about it, the more happy it make=
s him;
> in fact, I'm convinced it gives him a woody. =A0I truly think he's too st=
upid to
> fix it, so he compensates by making fun of everybody who complains about =
it.
>
Ahhhhh!! Brilliant deduction. Not that he doesn't want to change,
he's not able...Bingo!
On Mon, 18 Oct 2010 14:46:53 -0500, Jim in Milwaukee
<[email protected]> wrote:
>About a week ago, I was sanding with a PC ROS hooked up to my Shop Vac
>QSP when the vac decided not to turn off and on with the sander. So off
>to Woodcraft and came home with a Fein Turbo II. Much better, more
>suction, etc. This weekend, Friday, went to Woodcraft for their open
>house/sale. Sunday, the sander decided to random orbit about 10 times a
>minute. Had the sander had any compassion, it would have died Thursday.
>Today, off to Woodcraft again. Now the proud owner of a Festool ETS 125
>EQ ROS. What a difference.
Piece of advice, I find I get much better results with the white
"brilliant" paper than the red "rubin" which gave me no end of trouble
with swirl marks.
-Kevin
On Oct 20, 11:49=A0am, -MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 10/20/10 9:34 AM, Leon wrote:
>
> > So instead of the example you show of the Fein being over 13 times more
> > expensive, it really is only 3 1/2 times more expensive with normal pri=
cing.
>
> I'm not trying to defend the HF, as I have one and know what it is....
> and would much prefer the Fein if it came down to it... but....
>
> Since when is "normal pricing" relevant to anything. The only relevent
> price is what you can expect to pay for something. In the case of the
> HF, that's never higher that $35 bucks, because the thing is always on
> sale. You can walk in the door and ask for the latest coupon or ask them
> to match the website price if it's cheaper.
>
> Drum equipment manufactures are notorious for having ridiculously,
> artificially inflated retail list prices. Cymbals, heads, etc., always
> have a sale price of 50% off list. I'm not going to pretend the normal
> price of a pair of sticks is 14 bucks, when I know they always sell for $=
7.
>
> In the case of Fein, their quality speaks on its own. Being 3-1/2 or 6
> times as expensive is irrelevant in the debate, to me, at least.
>
The Feins don't gum up with oak rust quite as fast.
On Tue, 19 Oct 2010 19:41:29 -0500, "Leon" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
>"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>On Oct 19, 4:30 pm, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> "Jim in Milwaukee" <[email protected]> wrote in
>> > Wonder what the price tag will be on this one.
>>
>> My guess between $375 and $475.
>
>Under 400... has to be.
But you'll simply _have_ to have those extras and options which bring
the total up to a mere $3,975.43, won't you? I knew you would. ;)
--
Know how to listen, and you will
profit even from those who talk badly.
-- Plutarch
Leon wrote:
> "Swingman"<[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> On 10/18/2010 2:46 PM, Jim in Milwaukee wrote:
>>> About a week ago, I was sanding with a PC ROS hooked up to my Shop Vac
>>> QSP when the vac decided not to turn off and on with the sander. So off
>>> to Woodcraft and came home with a Fein Turbo II. Much better, more
>>> suction, etc. This weekend, Friday, went to Woodcraft for their open
>>> house/sale. Sunday, the sander decided to random orbit about 10 times a
>>> minute. Had the sander had any compassion, it would have died Thursday.
>>> Today, off to Woodcraft again. Now the proud owner of a Festool ETS 125
>>> EQ ROS. What a difference.
>>
>> I've got the RO 125, the RTS 400, and the DTS 400. There is a new one that
>> is being sold in Europe, the RO 90, that is supposedly due in NA soon,
>> that will be next on my list:
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66dWpd-6tm4
>>
>> Amazing how much time these sanders save on a project ... and how much
>> cleanup time, to boot.
>
>
> Damn, I thought it was only a smaller version of the bigger Rotex sanders
> but a detail sander too.
>
>
That was a pretty compelling video (picture worth a 1000 words)! I like
the way it reaches in the corners.
Bill
500... 1000 with the vac.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
On 10/20/10 9:34 AM, Leon wrote:
> So instead of the example you show of the Fein being over 13 times more
> expensive, it really is only 3 1/2 times more expensive with normal pricing.
>
I'm not trying to defend the HF, as I have one and know what it is....
and would much prefer the Fein if it came down to it... but....
Since when is "normal pricing" relevant to anything. The only relevent
price is what you can expect to pay for something. In the case of the
HF, that's never higher that $35 bucks, because the thing is always on
sale. You can walk in the door and ask for the latest coupon or ask them
to match the website price if it's cheaper.
Drum equipment manufactures are notorious for having ridiculously,
artificially inflated retail list prices. Cymbals, heads, etc., always
have a sale price of 50% off list. I'm not going to pretend the normal
price of a pair of sticks is 14 bucks, when I know they always sell for $7.
In the case of Fein, their quality speaks on its own. Being 3-1/2 or 6
times as expensive is irrelevant in the debate, to me, at least.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
On 10/20/10 1:17 PM, Robatoy wrote:
>>
> The Feins don't gum up with oak rust quite as fast.
>
The metal mugs are about to disintegrate off of my oak snare drum. :-)
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
On 10/21/2010 12:44 PM, RicodJour wrote:
> On Oct 20, 9:21 pm, "Josepi"<[email protected]> wrote:
>> Must be a complex reader that is hard to use.
>>
>> I can read any style just fine.
>>
>> "Robatoy"<[email protected]> wrote in message
>>
>> news:[email protected]...
>> Sorry, but I have given up trying to decipher your posting methods....
>> you just don't seem to want to fit in and that's okay.
>
> Your posts come through top posted, which in a longer post makes it
> tougher to read, and there's no clear quotation marks for the stuff
> you quoted. I don't understand the "I can read any style just fine"
> comment, unless you're saying, "Fuck you." I would think that you'd
> be interested in making it easier for other people to read. I'm sure
> it's just a simple setting that needs to be tweaked.
>
> R
I for one try real hard to give people the benefit of the doubt, and because he
does post on-topic at least half the time, I (and several others) have tried
many times (more times than he deserves) to convince this dipshit to use a
helpful posting style, but he flat-out refuses. He thinks it's a funny little
game, and he's just "oh so amused" that so many people have such a problem with
it. The more that people bitch at him about it, the more happy it makes him;
in fact, I'm convinced it gives him a woody. I truly think he's too stupid to
fix it, so he compensates by making fun of everybody who complains about it.
--
Repeat after me:
"I am we Todd it. I am sofa king we Todd it."
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/
Josepi wrote:
> It draws out the trolls, shows progress of header association since threaded
> readesr were developed, takes less effort to read and post is becoming
> popular in many groups.
>
How was an often thoughtful person like yourself drawn into troll-dom?
Is it that it's easier to compete than at the other end?
Bill
Josepi wrote:
> Very easy to float above swine!
> Clueless egotistical swathes of carbon chips LOL LOL
Delusions of grandeur, huh? Don't allow it to consume your days...
>
>
> Bill<[email protected]> wrote in message
> <[email protected]>
> Josepi wrote:
>> It draws out the trolls, shows progress of header association since threaded
>> readesr were developed, takes less effort to read and post is becoming
>> popular in many groups.
>>
> How was an often thoughtful person like yourself drawn into troll-dom?
> Is it that it's easier to compete than at the other end?
>
> Bill
>
"Puckdropper" <puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>>
>> "Mike M" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>>
>>> I still have to check and be sure the Rotek is really sanding. Too
>>> quiet no dust I'll get used to it eventually. Find I'm really
>>> disgusted when I use the belt sander with the mess.
>>>
>>> Mike M
>>
>> I don't find it much quieter than my old PC right angle ROS unless you
>> are talking about the quiet from the vac also, but it took me about a
>> year to get use to no seeing dust. It really does make you wonder if
>> you are doing anything until you slide your hand across the surface.
>>
>
> How are these on vibration? I can't use half the sanders out there
> because they simply vibrate too much.
Festool has a couple of "normal/standard" ROS with round disks. And the
ETS125 is absolutely silky smooth and you can simply set it down on the
work, turned on, and guide/push it with your finger if you chose to do that.
;~) Although not as aggressive as the Rotex sanders.
http://www.festoolusa.com/products/orbital-sanders/ets-125-eq-random-orbital-sander-571610.html
The Rotex sanders naturally have a bit more vibration especially in their
"belt sander" aggressive mode. My rectangle pad RTS400 sander does not make
my hand tingle after extensive use like both of my older PC SpeedBloc finish
sanders did and those things were pretty nice.
On Tue, 19 Oct 2010 21:21:50 -0700 (PDT), Robatoy
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Oct 19, 9:13 pm, Larry Jaques <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>> On Tue, 19 Oct 2010 19:41:29 -0500, "Leon" <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> >news:[email protected]...
>> >On Oct 19, 4:30 pm, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> "Jim in Milwaukee" <[email protected]> wrote in
>> >> > Wonder what the price tag will be on this one.
>>
>> >> My guess between $375 and $475.
>>
>> >Under 400... has to be.
>>
>> But you'll simply _have_ to have those extras and options which bring
>> the total up to a mere $3,975.43, won't you? I knew you would. ;)
>>
>
>I only buy what I know will pay for itself, and as I am retired, that
Same here, but I can easily get by with HF (and American-made) tools
for most work. I needed a -good- impactor and have had both Bosch and
Makita now. Both were both necessary and worth it. I'm not retired,
I's just po workin' folk.
>has raised the bar quite high. I love a good tool as much as the next
>guy, and I could (most of the time) justify buying Festool grade
>tools. No tool works harder or smarter than a Festool.
I, too, can appreciate a good tool, but it rankles me to no end that
some toolmakers (Fein, Festool, and others) price theirs 2x to 20x
above the rest.
Other than greed, I cannot fathom why Fein would price a tool at $400
when a nearly identical one is imported and sold by HF for $30.
Granted, a tool utilizing a brand-new, good idea is worth more than an
everyday tool, but 12x. How does that saying go? "...and the horse
that rode in on them." or something.
--
Know how to listen, and you will
profit even from those who talk badly.
-- Plutarch
On Sat, 23 Oct 2010 17:19:57 -0500, "Leon" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
>"Larry Jaques" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On Thu, 21 Oct 2010 15:38:20 -0500, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>On 10/21/2010 1:17 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 21 Oct 2010 10:59:27 -0500, Swingman<[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> The Makita needs it because it is prone to kickbacks as it does not
>>>>> have
>>>>> a riving knife; and I think the Makita might also cut a bit past 45
>>>>> degrees (48?), which, both of these issues combined, would make it a
>>>>> necessity, IMO.
>>>>
>>>> Why on Earth would a circular saw on a RAIL need a riving knife for
>>>> kickback protection? Especially when it's primarily used on panel
>>>> products which, by nature, don't get the urge to close up like
>>>> improperly dried hardwood lumber might.
>>>
>>>In my estimation, and use of the saw, and because it's a PLUNGE saw, the
>>>Festool riving knife mitigates the tendency of the saw to kickback
>>>toward the operator upon a plunge cut away from the edges of a panel (a
>>>cut I use quite often now that I have the ability to do it easily).
>>
>> Do you seriously feel that it does any good whatsoever, Swingy? I
>> can't see how it could. Panel products don't have the internal
>> stresses that badly dried woods do.
>
>Actually when cutting boards, not just sheet goods, it probably adds to
>prevent kick back.
How often do you rip boards with it? 1/2% of the time? 1/4%?
>> Doesn't sawdust mess with the sticky strips on the guide?
>
>The friction strips are not sticky, work very similar to the friction pads
>on the bottom of the Grippers push blocks, they don't slip snf don't attract
>dust either.
OK.
--
I am an old man, but in many senses a very young man.
And this is what I want you to be, young, young all
your life. -- Pablo Casals
On Fri, 22 Oct 2010 21:06:16 -0400, Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
>Josepi wrote:
>> It draws out the trolls, shows progress of header association since threaded
>> readesr were developed, takes less effort to read and post is becoming
>> popular in many groups.
>>
>How was an often thoughtful person like yourself drawn into troll-dom?
>Is it that it's easier to compete than at the other end?
Bill, PDFTFT!
--
I am an old man, but in many senses a very young man.
And this is what I want you to be, young, young all
your life. -- Pablo Casals
"Larry Jaques" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>>Actually when cutting boards, not just sheet goods, it probably adds to
>>prevent kick back.
>
> How often do you rip boards with it? 1/2% of the time? 1/4%?
So far 50%
That is going to become a smaller number however as I have a bunch of panel
projects coming up.
It draws out the trolls, shows progress of header association since threaded
readesr were developed, takes less effort to read and post is becoming
popular in many groups.
"RicodJour" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
Your posts come through top posted, which in a longer post makes it
tougher to read, and there's no clear quotation marks for the stuff
you quoted. I don't understand the "I can read any style just fine"
comment, unless you're saying, "Fuck you." I would think that you'd
be interested in making it easier for other people to read. I'm sure
it's just a simple setting that needs to be tweaked.
R
On Oct 20, 9:21 pm, "Josepi" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Must be a complex reader that is hard to use.
>
> I can read any style just fine.
>
> "Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...
> Sorry, but I have given up trying to decipher your posting methods....
> you just don't seem to want to fit in and that's okay.
I rest another case.
Smells like another Doug Miller troll.
"Josepi" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
Very easy to float above swine!
Clueless egotistical swathes of carbon chips LOL LOL
Bill <[email protected]> wrote in message
<[email protected]>
How was an often thoughtful person like yourself drawn into troll-dom?
Is it that it's easier to compete than at the other end?
Bill
Josepi wrote:
> It draws out the trolls, shows progress of header association since
> threaded
> readesr were developed, takes less effort to read and post is becoming
> popular in many groups.
>
Very easy to float above swine!
Clueless egotistical swathes of carbon chips LOL LOL
Bill <[email protected]> wrote in message
<[email protected]>
Josepi wrote:
> It draws out the trolls, shows progress of header association since threaded
> readesr were developed, takes less effort to read and post is becoming
> popular in many groups.
>
How was an often thoughtful person like yourself drawn into troll-dom?
Is it that it's easier to compete than at the other end?
Bill
"Bill" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Leon wrote:
>> "Swingman"<[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> I've got the RO 125, the RTS 400, and the DTS 400. There is a new one
>>> that
>>> is being sold in Europe, the RO 90, that is supposedly due in NA soon,
>>> that will be next on my list:
>>>
>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66dWpd-6tm4
>>>
>>> Amazing how much time these sanders save on a project ... and how much
>>> cleanup time, to boot.
>>
>>
>> Damn, I thought it was only a smaller version of the bigger Rotex sanders
>> but a detail sander too.
>>
>>
>
>
> That was a pretty compelling video (picture worth a 1000 words)! I like
> the way it reaches in the corners.
>
> Bill
If I already did not have a Festool Rotex 125 the rectangle Festool 400 and
a Fein Multimaster I'd be waiting with out patience.
Is the candle wax put on before or after the stain?
"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
Oak rust don't hold a candle to Jummywood rust . . .
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
Maybe we should place an entry on wikipedia for "oak rust"??