I received this e-mail from the SawStop folks this AM. (for anyone that
cares).
September 2004
We have recently received quite a few calls and emails asking about the status
of our saws, so we thought it would be a good idea to send out this update
letter to people on our mailing list.
At the end of August we attended the International Woodworking Fair in Atlanta,
Georgia and displayed our new cabinet and contractor saws. The show was a great
success and we received numerous compliments on our saws. Many people said our
saws looked better and operated more smoothly than other saws.
We started shipping our cabinet saws to customers immediately after the show.
However, we have only been able to ship a few saws because many of the saws we
received from our manufacturer had minor issues such as paint scuffs, rust
spots, and improper cable routing. We are correcting these issues and shipping
these saws out, but these issues have prevented us from shipping the saws as
fast as we would like. We expect to receive our next shipment of cabinet saws
around the end of October. We will inspect those saws when we receive them and
then ship them out. We plan to receive additional saws every two or three weeks
after that until we fulfill all our pre-orders. We have quite of number of
pre-orders so it will likely take several months to fulfill all of them,
probably into February 2005.
The contractor saws we displayed at the trade show were engineering samples.
There are still a couple of things we want to do to improve the saw (like
modify the standard fence and make the elevation gears a little smoother) and
we have delayed shipping in order to make those improvements. Our best estimate
is that we will start shipping our contractor saws in December.
We have sent and are sending cabinet saws to various magazines for review. We
understand Fine Woodworking magazine will publish a review of our saw in their
next or subsequent issue.
We appreciate your patience as we work to bring out our new technology. When
you see our saws we are confident that you will consider them worth the wait.
As always, please feel free to call or send us an email if you have any
questions or comments.
Sincerely,
Stephen Gass
President
SawStop, LLC
22409 S.W. Newland Road
Wilsonville, Oregon 97070 USA
Phone - (503) 638-6201
Fax - (503) 638-8601
Email - [email protected]
On 20 Sep 2004 10:12:54 GMT, Mike <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> We started shipping our cabinet saws to customers immediately after the show.
> However, we have only been able to ship a few saws because many of the saws we
> received from our manufacturer had minor issues such as paint scuffs, rust
> spots, and improper cable routing.
Speaking as someone completely not interested one way or the other about
the saw-stop mechanism in general, the above is a huge danger sign to
me. If you're having supplier problems, OK, maybe. But, what motivation
would one have to tell specifically that there are not only packaging
problems (paint scrapes), materials problems (rust spots), and also
procedural problems (wiring the things wrong)? Sounds like an uncontrolled
source for materials. Not a good sign.
Don't get me wrong, I think the saw-stop is an intriguing idea, but
the above in the letter screams "run away" from a build quality
perspective. Can't wait to actually see one, though.
Dave Hinz
On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 13:40:24 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
>"Vic Baron" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>- in order to get the SawStop you have to buy an inferior
>> quality, unproved saw.
>>
>> Just doesn't make any sense to me. If I wanted the SS, I'd buy a good saw
>> and figure out how to get it installed.
>
>What makes it inferior? Have you seen one?
I saw it in Atlanta, and it seemed inferior to an Altendorf, but not a
Unisaw.
JP
In article <[email protected]>,
Bruce Barnett <[email protected]> wrote:
>[email protected] (Mike) writes:
>
>> We started shipping our cabinet saws to customers immediately after the show.
>
>Do they have a real price yet?
>Or is it still vaporware?
>
>Any news on the cost to "undo" once the saw stops. Or is it a simple
>press-a-button reset?
No, it is _not_ a press-a-button reset.
there is a one-shot "cartridge" that has to be replaced.
As I recall, it's about US$80 each. Plus the time/effort to replace.
It's also not clear how much alignment/tuning has to be done after replacement.
press-a-button reset?
>
> If you visit their site, you can become educated on how the set up works.
> No, it is not a simple 1 button reset. The cost to undo if paid 20 times
> for 19 false stops and 1 positive stop times would still be much cheaper
> than a trip to the emergency room.
Ok, but I still have seen NO DATA on their false trip rates. How do
you know that 19 of 20 is even close to a reasonable guess --- what if
the false trip rate is 199,999 our of 200,000? Is it still an
economy?
I commend the Saw Stop folks for building their own saws since the
other mfg's turned them down. I cannot, however, condone their
attempts legislate mandatory use of their product.
If they truly have a better solution to a REAL STATISTICALLY
SIGNIFICANT problem then they will win on competitive grounds alone.
Consider a commercial cabinet shop: if the dollars and sense work out,
their insurance company will be making it worth the shop's while to
replace old dangerous equipment with SawStop products.
"Bruce Barnett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> [email protected] (Mike) writes:
>
>> We started shipping our cabinet saws to customers immediately after the
>> show.
>
> Do they have a real price yet?
> Or is it still vaporware?
>
> Any news on the cost to "undo" once the saw stops. Or is it a simple
> press-a-button reset?
If you visit their site, you can become educated on how the set up works.
No, it is not a simple 1 button reset. The cost to undo if paid 20 times
for 19 false stops and 1 positive stop times would still be much cheaper
than a trip to the emergency room.
I guess I look at this in an entirely different way. First, I applaud them
for investing several years of their time and money to attempt to improve
the safety of table saws and make a buck for their effort. Like any other
free market enterprise, they have a chance of never recovering that
investment, but at least they are taking the risk. It appears that they
believe in their product as a better idea, not simply a "me too" addition to
the woodworking world.
Regarding it being offered as an option, the company persued that with the
major manufacturers, who considered the additional cost too high. The
design is not a simple bolt on accessory. I wish it was a low priced add-on
also, but then again, I also which an integrated mind-reading
your-about-to-do-something-stupid telekinetic wireless nanosecond premptive
off switch was a low priced add-on too. The statistics on table saw
injuries is not good. I'm sure if there was an inexpensive technical
solution, SawStop would have a competitor.
Regarding the quality, yes, I probably wouldn't be that specific on the
manufacturing startup problems in letters by the president. Most companies
have these, they just don't publish them during the startup phase. Startup
problems such as these are *extremely* common. As someone else implied, at
least they are exercising quality control. I've received Delta tools (not
new models) with similar problems and they have had years to fix the
problems.
For me, the real issue is does it work. I've seen the hot dog demo. I hate
to admit, but I'm waiting for the customer testimony of the people whose
fingers were cut slightly but saved from being sawed off.
-- Mark
"Vic Baron" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> IMHO, SawStop is a good idea BUT it should be a low priced optional add
> on.
> I dislike their forceful attempts to FORCE me to buy a saw with their
> product installed. Now, they want to market their own saw. Read between
> the
> lines folks - in order to get the SawStop you have to buy an inferior
> quality, unproved saw.
>
> Just doesn't make any sense to me. If I wanted the SS, I'd buy a good saw
> and figure out how to get it installed.
>
> BUYER BEWARE!
>
> Just MHO,
>
> Vic
IMHO, SawStop is a good idea BUT it should be a low priced optional add on.
I dislike their forceful attempts to FORCE me to buy a saw with their
product installed. Now, they want to market their own saw. Read between the
lines folks - in order to get the SawStop you have to buy an inferior
quality, unproved saw.
Just doesn't make any sense to me. If I wanted the SS, I'd buy a good saw
and figure out how to get it installed.
BUYER BEWARE!
Just MHO,
Vic
"Mike" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I received this e-mail from the SawStop folks this AM. (for anyone that
> cares).
>
>
> September 2004
>
> We have recently received quite a few calls and emails asking about the
status
> of our saws, so we thought it would be a good idea to send out this update
> letter to people on our mailing list.
>
> At the end of August we attended the International Woodworking Fair in
Atlanta,
> Georgia and displayed our new cabinet and contractor saws. The show was a
great
> success and we received numerous compliments on our saws. Many people said
our
> saws looked better and operated more smoothly than other saws.
>
> We started shipping our cabinet saws to customers immediately after the
show.
> However, we have only been able to ship a few saws because many of the
saws we
> received from our manufacturer had minor issues such as paint scuffs, rust
> spots, and improper cable routing. We are correcting these issues and
shipping
> these saws out, but these issues have prevented us from shipping the saws
as
> fast as we would like. We expect to receive our next shipment of cabinet
saws
> around the end of October. We will inspect those saws when we receive them
and
> then ship them out. We plan to receive additional saws every two or three
weeks
> after that until we fulfill all our pre-orders. We have quite of number of
> pre-orders so it will likely take several months to fulfill all of them,
> probably into February 2005.
>
> The contractor saws we displayed at the trade show were engineering
samples.
> There are still a couple of things we want to do to improve the saw (like
> modify the standard fence and make the elevation gears a little smoother)
and
> we have delayed shipping in order to make those improvements. Our best
estimate
> is that we will start shipping our contractor saws in December.
>
> We have sent and are sending cabinet saws to various magazines for review.
We
> understand Fine Woodworking magazine will publish a review of our saw in
their
> next or subsequent issue.
>
> We appreciate your patience as we work to bring out our new technology.
When
> you see our saws we are confident that you will consider them worth the
wait.
> As always, please feel free to call or send us an email if you have any
> questions or comments.
>
> Sincerely,
> Stephen Gass
> President
>
> SawStop, LLC
> 22409 S.W. Newland Road
> Wilsonville, Oregon 97070 USA
> Phone - (503) 638-6201
> Fax - (503) 638-8601
> Email - [email protected]
>
Sounds like he's been buying Unisaws.....
<Snippage> minor issues such as paint scuffs, rust
> spots, and improper cable routing. We are correcting these issues and shipping
> these saws out, but these issues have prevented us from shipping the saws as
> fast as we would like. We expect to receive our next shipment of cabinet saws
> around the end of October. We will inspect those saws when we receive them and
> then ship them out.
"J" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Sawstop says "However, we have only been able to ship a few saws because
> many of the saws we
> received from our manufacturer had minor issues such as paint scuffs, rust
> spots, and improper cable routing."
>
> Doesn't sound superior to me.
Sounds like most every saw on the market. One difference though, they are
fixing the problem. Those things don't necessarily affect the performance of
the saw when it comes to cutting. They may in fact be crap, but they may
also be the best working saw on the market. I'll reserve judgment until I
see one or at least get a report from customers that would know.
"Vic Baron" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>- in order to get the SawStop you have to buy an inferior
> quality, unproved saw.
>
> Just doesn't make any sense to me. If I wanted the SS, I'd buy a good saw
> and figure out how to get it installed.
What makes it inferior? Have you seen one?
"Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:cbW3d.4306$uz1.2676@trndny03...
>
> "Vic Baron" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >- in order to get the SawStop you have to buy an inferior
> > quality, unproved saw.
> >
> > Just doesn't make any sense to me. If I wanted the SS, I'd buy a good
saw
> > and figure out how to get it installed.
>
> What makes it inferior? Have you seen one?
>
Sawstop says "However, we have only been able to ship a few saws because
many of the saws we
received from our manufacturer had minor issues such as paint scuffs, rust
spots, and improper cable routing."
Doesn't sound superior to me.
-J
[email protected] (Mike) writes:
> We started shipping our cabinet saws to customers immediately after the show.
Do they have a real price yet?
Or is it still vaporware?
Any news on the cost to "undo" once the saw stops. Or is it a simple
press-a-button reset?
--
Sending unsolicited commercial e-mail to this account incurs a fee of
$500 per message, and acknowledges the legality of this contract.
[email protected] (Mike) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> I received this e-mail from the SawStop folks this AM. (for anyone that
> cares).
>
>
> September 2004
>
> We started shipping our cabinet saws to customers immediately after the show.
These guys haven't given up trying to FORCE sales, this is just the
opening round. Be alert, there will be more agitprop from them.
"Dave Hinz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Speaking as someone completely not interested one way or the other about
> the saw-stop mechanism in general, the above is a huge danger sign to
> me. If you're having supplier problems, OK, maybe. But, what motivation
> would one have to tell specifically that there are not only packaging
> problems (paint scrapes), materials problems (rust spots), and also
> procedural problems (wiring the things wrong)? Sounds like an
> uncontrolled
> source for materials. Not a good sign.
I see your point but the alternative is to do like Delta. Ship the Unisaw
and blame all those broken trunions on the shipper, then years later when
realizing that the shipper is not damaging other brand saws that it might be
a factory problem. They did later admit it was an assembly problem.
Or there are those that think good service is how quickly new broken parts
are shipped before the tool can be used. To me, good service is not having
to call service. Get it right before shipping. SawStop is at least trying
to fix problems rather than have you fix the problem.
On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 21:16:33 GMT, "Mark L." <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Sounds like he's been buying Unisaws.....
He didn't say anything about missing parts. That would be the Delta
I know! <G>
Barry
"Ba r r y" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 21:16:33 GMT, "Mark L." <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>>Sounds like he's been buying Unisaws.....
>
> He didn't say anything about missing parts. That would be the Delta
> I know! <G>
Or broken trunnions.
That is the coolest demo. I always have hot dogs in my shop. Sacrifice
a hot dog instead of a finger. No hot dog has been harmed inthe making
of this video. All kinds of silliness can come from that video.
"Mark Morin" <[email protected]> wrote:
>I guess I look at this in an entirely different way. First, I applaud them
>for investing several years of their time and money to attempt to improve
>the safety of table saws and make a buck for their effort. Like any other
>free market enterprise, they have a chance of never recovering that
>investment, but at least they are taking the risk. It appears that they
>believe in their product as a better idea, not simply a "me too" addition to
>the woodworking world.
>
>Regarding it being offered as an option, the company persued that with the
>major manufacturers, who considered the additional cost too high. The
>design is not a simple bolt on accessory. I wish it was a low priced add-on
>also, but then again, I also which an integrated mind-reading
>your-about-to-do-something-stupid telekinetic wireless nanosecond premptive
>off switch was a low priced add-on too. The statistics on table saw
>injuries is not good. I'm sure if there was an inexpensive technical
>solution, SawStop would have a competitor.
>
>Regarding the quality, yes, I probably wouldn't be that specific on the
>manufacturing startup problems in letters by the president. Most companies
>have these, they just don't publish them during the startup phase. Startup
>problems such as these are *extremely* common. As someone else implied, at
>least they are exercising quality control. I've received Delta tools (not
>new models) with similar problems and they have had years to fix the
>problems.
>
>For me, the real issue is does it work. I've seen the hot dog demo. I hate
>to admit, but I'm waiting for the customer testimony of the people whose
>fingers were cut slightly but saved from being sawed off.
>
>-- Mark
>
>
>"Vic Baron" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> IMHO, SawStop is a good idea BUT it should be a low priced optional add
>> on.
>> I dislike their forceful attempts to FORCE me to buy a saw with their
>> product installed. Now, they want to market their own saw. Read between
>> the
>> lines folks - in order to get the SawStop you have to buy an inferior
>> quality, unproved saw.
>>
>> Just doesn't make any sense to me. If I wanted the SS, I'd buy a good saw
>> and figure out how to get it installed.
>>
>> BUYER BEWARE!
>>
>> Just MHO,
>>
>> Vic
>
"Robert Bonomi" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> As I recall, it's about US$80 each. Plus the time/effort to replace.
>
> It's also not clear how much alignment/tuning has to be done after
> replacement.
Actually if it saves 1 trip to the emergency room you could "screw"
replacing the cartridge and tuning and just buy a brand new saw and still be
ahead.
"J" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Sawstop says "However, we have only been able to ship a few saws because
> many of the saws we
> received from our manufacturer had minor issues such as paint scuffs, rust
> spots, and improper cable routing."
>
> Doesn't sound superior to me.
No, it sounds typical. Except for the fact that they are trying to fix the
problem so that you will not have to an many other manufacturers require you
to do.