do not know much about felling trees but i suppose they cleaned up
the bottom cut on the log to meet the 20 foot mark or so
but the stump portion that is visible seems to also be cleaned
https://imgur.com/iY73ujp
maybe the photo just does not show enough and the stump is ragged
but it does seem like it is cleaned up
maybe they do that just to make it easier to haul the logs out
interesting photo no matter what
Termites eat the centers out if the log is lying on the ground.
They also eat the cream colored wood on the outside under the
deadly outer bark.
We used to have a Tree near us that was a Blue Jay tree. They
would peck and push a hole in the outer bark and then press in
a acorn. The acorn typically had a worm in it. The whole mess
would sit and cook all year and the birds would come back to
eat the pickled worms and nut while making more holes. The tree
looked like it was shot with a machine gun - a 50 cal - massive
array of 1/2" holes that were darker than the other wood.
The bark has Tannin in it - used to tan leather goods in vats.
Otherwise oak was used - there is a Tannin Oak.
Martin
On 5/15/2015 12:42 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
> On Fri, 15 May 2015 08:32:52 -0400
> "John Grossbohlin" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> ...a blame the victim philosophy!
>
>
> the properties of the wood is also their fault
>
> beauty and termite/weather resistance
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Some of the big saws still exist. I saw a brand new 30' arc
saw in the main office of the San Lorenzo Lumber company. They
had wood guards to protect people from the teeth. It was one of
the saws their company used many years before - but just kept this one new.
Today there are two man chain saws that are large, but they are rare.
Martin
On 5/14/2015 12:48 PM, G. Ross wrote:
> Electric Comet wrote:
>>
>> do not know much about felling trees but i suppose they cleaned up
>> the bottom cut on the log to meet the 20 foot mark or so
>>
>> but the stump portion that is visible seems to also be cleaned
>>
>> https://imgur.com/iY73ujp
>>
>> maybe the photo just does not show enough and the stump is ragged
>> but it does seem like it is cleaned up
>>
>> maybe they do that just to make it easier to haul the logs out
>>
>> interesting photo no matter what
>>
> Musta been a honking big chainsaw! ;>)
>
>
I used to live in the Redwood forest in Ca.
I've seen the big stumps and have a nice history / picture book
of those days.
The big logs were halved or quartered in the field.
The stumps were left 6-8 feet into the air due to the buttress
flair that was not useful. Also slots for spring boards were sawed
into the stump so men with double handle saws could slice through.
The saws were tough but sharp as skinning knifes.
Logs pulled out by sled or wagon using mules and horses.
In steep hills, the smaller diameter, taller height coastal species
were shot down slouse (sp) lines that ran down the mountain near a
river that feed water to the slouse. Downright dangerous having a
massive log coming down a mountain and ending up into a pond near
the mill. The slouse is gone, the mill and the big barns is still
there.
Martin
On 5/14/2015 11:22 AM, Electric Comet wrote:
>
> do not know much about felling trees but i suppose they cleaned up
> the bottom cut on the log to meet the 20 foot mark or so
>
> but the stump portion that is visible seems to also be cleaned
>
> https://imgur.com/iY73ujp
>
> maybe the photo just does not show enough and the stump is ragged
> but it does seem like it is cleaned up
>
> maybe they do that just to make it easier to haul the logs out
>
> interesting photo no matter what
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Right - mental without a dictionary. Martin
On 5/15/2015 12:41 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
> On Thu, 14 May 2015 23:01:00 -0500
> Martin Eastburn <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> In steep hills, the smaller diameter, taller height coastal species
>> were shot down slouse (sp) lines that ran down the mountain near a
>> river that feed water to the slouse. Downright dangerous having a
>> massive log coming down a mountain and ending up into a pond near
>> the mill. The slouse is gone, the mill and the big barns is still
>> there.
>
> i think the word is sluice not sure though
>
> amazing trees and amazing wood
>
>
> all the physics involved in those living marvels is really
> interesting
>
> the internal fluid pressures
> capillary actions
> etc.
>
> the redwood i last saw at home depot was a joke
> most of it sapwood which termites love
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Look in the front right - the large tree and the man arm out.
The wedge cut by axe from both sides so a thin wedge remained in the
center. They then sawed that wedge off until it fell - Might have
cleaned the split out of the base, but the base in the foreground
is a massive one spreading out in the left foreground.
That was so large, it isn't likely the same stump.
Martin
On 5/14/2015 3:03 PM, jloomis wrote:
> Yes, and the son of a "itches" left a holy mess in the Redwoods.
> No care for anything, streams, animals, vegetation.
> Just come and take the forest, burn down the slash, and leave....
> Following this assault they again logged about 3 times, and with
> continuing selectivity as to what the market would bear.
> Now when you go in an Old Growth forest, there are few and far between
> trees left.
> We wonder why the salmon spawning grounds are slack, and the forest is
> struggling to survive...
> Yes, they left a mess.
> I am cleaning up a logging operation from about 1950 on my property.
> They came in with bulldozers and pushed over trees in the way, oaks, and
> redwoods, firs, rhododendrons, etc.
> to take what trees/logs were left from the first and 2nd assault.
> Leaving the old skid roads there, and the trees upover.
> Some have grown back sideways, and out of the logs pushed over....it is
> a mess.
> I am clearing the oaks that grew like wheat grass, and cleaning up the
> stumps, and crooked bent trees, salvaging the forest, and making it a
> bit more healthy for the redwoods, and also the large amount of wood
> that grew that poses fire threat.
> I always wonder what went across their minds when they cut down these
> giants.....
> I know, they were starving and hungry, and making a living......
> Thank the lord we now have some forest practices, that help not only
> make a viable timber industry, but save the forest for the future.
> john in Redwood Country.....
>
> "Electric Comet" wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
>
> do not know much about felling trees but i suppose they cleaned up
> the bottom cut on the log to meet the 20 foot mark or so
>
> but the stump portion that is visible seems to also be cleaned
>
> https://imgur.com/iY73ujp
>
> maybe the photo just does not show enough and the stump is ragged
> but it does seem like it is cleaned up
>
> maybe they do that just to make it easier to haul the logs out
>
> interesting photo no matter what
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
"G. Ross" <[email protected]> wrote in news:ucudndhPZMqVfcnInZ2dnUU7-
[email protected]:
> Electric Comet wrote:
>>
>> do not know much about felling trees but i suppose they cleaned up
>> the bottom cut on the log to meet the 20 foot mark or so
>>
>> but the stump portion that is visible seems to also be cleaned
>>
>> https://imgur.com/iY73ujp
>>
>> maybe the photo just does not show enough and the stump is ragged
>> but it does seem like it is cleaned up
>>
>> maybe they do that just to make it easier to haul the logs out
>>
>> interesting photo no matter what
>>
> Musta been a honking big chainsaw! ;>)
Date's 1915, so all that cutting would have been with
handsaws...
To EC's point, there's no garauntee the stump in the
foreground has any connection to the logs. Obviously
the trunk has been cut to convenient lengths for
transport (and, as you note, the end of the log cut
clean), however that would not necessarily be done
where the tree was felled.
In that era, the popular practice was to find a stout
tree more or less in the middle of the area to be logged,
strip off the branches, strap some blocks on near the
top, and set a winch and steam donkey engine at the
bottom. The loggers would haul a line thru the blocks
and out to the tree they'd felled, and the winch would
then pull it back thru the forest. At the winch site
they'd then cut it to length to be hauled to the mill
by ox-team or railroad.
John
Electric Comet <[email protected]> wrote in news:mj5b9q$kva$2
@dont-email.me:
> On Thu, 14 May 2015 23:01:00 -0500
> Martin Eastburn <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> In steep hills, the smaller diameter, taller height coastal species
>> were shot down slouse (sp) lines that ran down the mountain near a
>> river that feed water to the slouse. Downright dangerous having a
>> massive log coming down a mountain and ending up into a pond near
>> the mill. The slouse is gone, the mill and the big barns is still
>> there.
>
> i think the word is sluice not sure though
"Sluice" is the correct spelling, but loggers on the
West coast would not call it that, they'd call it a
"flume" (having picked up both the name and the design
from the gold miners).
Flumes were more commonly used to move rough-cut lumber
from the sawmill to a finishing mill, than they were to
move logs. Some of them were large enough to float a
small boat, and the lumbermen would knock together crude
boats from the rough lumber and ride down when they had
a day off.
Googling for "lumber flume" should get you some pictures.
John
Martin Eastburn <[email protected]> wrote in news:zbz5x.4621
[email protected]:
> Redwoods are officially a Hardwood.
Umm, no. Redwoods are gymnosperms, not angiosperms, and thus
they are offically a softwood.
John
"Martin Eastburn" wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>Look in the front right - the large tree and the man arm out.
>The wedge cut by axe from both sides so a thin wedge remained in the
>center. They then sawed that wedge off until it fell - Might have
>cleaned the split out of the base, but the base in the foreground
>is a massive one spreading out in the left foreground.
>That was so large, it isn't likely the same stump.
If they were of the same constitution as locust they'd probably still be
standing there... a lot harder to chop and saw.
Since the red wood was nice and soft they were hacked down...
...a blame the victim philosophy!
Electric Comet wrote:
> do not know much about felling trees but i suppose they cleaned up
> the bottom cut on the log to meet the 20 foot mark or so
Looks like they did clean up the hinge a bit - no idea at what length
though.
>
> but the stump portion that is visible seems to also be cleaned
Does not look to me like the stump is in the picture, or enough of it to
actually see if they did any work on the stump. Would seem unlikely they
would though - the stump is usually left as it is when the tree comes off of
it..
>
> https://imgur.com/iY73ujp
>
> maybe the photo just does not show enough and the stump is ragged
> but it does seem like it is cleaned up
I think the former.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
Yes, and the son of a "itches" left a holy mess in the Redwoods.
No care for anything, streams, animals, vegetation.
Just come and take the forest, burn down the slash, and leave....
Following this assault they again logged about 3 times, and with continuing
selectivity as to what the market would bear.
Now when you go in an Old Growth forest, there are few and far between trees
left.
We wonder why the salmon spawning grounds are slack, and the forest is
struggling to survive...
Yes, they left a mess.
I am cleaning up a logging operation from about 1950 on my property.
They came in with bulldozers and pushed over trees in the way, oaks, and
redwoods, firs, rhododendrons, etc.
to take what trees/logs were left from the first and 2nd assault. Leaving
the old skid roads there, and the trees upover.
Some have grown back sideways, and out of the logs pushed over....it is a
mess.
I am clearing the oaks that grew like wheat grass, and cleaning up the
stumps, and crooked bent trees, salvaging the forest, and making it a bit
more healthy for the redwoods, and also the large amount of wood that grew
that poses fire threat.
I always wonder what went across their minds when they cut down these
giants.....
I know, they were starving and hungry, and making a living......
Thank the lord we now have some forest practices, that help not only make a
viable timber industry, but save the forest for the future.
john in Redwood Country.....
"Electric Comet" wrote in message news:[email protected]...
do not know much about felling trees but i suppose they cleaned up
the bottom cut on the log to meet the 20 foot mark or so
but the stump portion that is visible seems to also be cleaned
https://imgur.com/iY73ujp
maybe the photo just does not show enough and the stump is ragged
but it does seem like it is cleaned up
maybe they do that just to make it easier to haul the logs out
interesting photo no matter what
On 5/14/2015 4:03 PM, jloomis wrote:
> Yes, and the son of a "itches" left a holy mess in the Redwoods.
> No care for anything, streams, animals, vegetation.
> Just come and take the forest, burn down the slash, and leave....
> Following this assault they again logged about 3 times, and with
> continuing selectivity as to what the market would bear.
> Now when you go in an Old Growth forest, there are few and far between
> trees left.
> We wonder why the salmon spawning grounds are slack, and the forest is
> struggling to survive...
> Yes, they left a mess.
> I am cleaning up a logging operation from about 1950 on my property.
You must judge events of the past by the paradigms in effect at the time
the event happened. You can judge by today's paradigms, but it is not
legitimate.
You can learn from past events, and try to improve your future action
based on those historical events, but you can not criticize a person who
live in the past and made the decisions they did. You don't have the
same facts they had at the time of the event.
I good example is the removal of the Indians from the Indiana. From
the point of view of the people who lived there and and been subject to
Indian attacks for the previous 100 years it was the most logical and
humane way to handle the situation. The alternative would have been to
continue the Indian wars for another 100 years.
You open up a wide margin.
What about Hitler?
And slave trade?
Use of fossil fuels?
Yes, we have to learn from error. History does present a lot of error.
You can learn from past events, and try to improve your future action
based on those historical events, but you can not criticize a person who
live in the past and made the decisions they did.
I think a person is welcome to criticize the past, and learn from it.
From
the point of view of the people who lived there and and been subject to
Indian attacks for the previous 100 years it was the most logical and
humane way to handle the situation.
They took their land.
They took their food.
They took their way of living....
I know I will get lots of flack.
john
"Keith Nuttle" wrote in message news:[email protected]...
On 5/14/2015 4:03 PM, jloomis wrote:
> Yes, and the son of a "itches" left a holy mess in the Redwoods.
> No care for anything, streams, animals, vegetation.
> Just come and take the forest, burn down the slash, and leave....
> Following this assault they again logged about 3 times, and with
> continuing selectivity as to what the market would bear.
> Now when you go in an Old Growth forest, there are few and far between
> trees left.
> We wonder why the salmon spawning grounds are slack, and the forest is
> struggling to survive...
> Yes, they left a mess.
> I am cleaning up a logging operation from about 1950 on my property.
You must judge events of the past by the paradigms in effect at the time
the event happened. You can judge by today's paradigms, but it is not
legitimate.
You can learn from past events, and try to improve your future action
based on those historical events, but you can not criticize a person who
live in the past and made the decisions they did. You don't have the
same facts they had at the time of the event.
I good example is the removal of the Indians from the Indiana. From
the point of view of the people who lived there and and been subject to
Indian attacks for the previous 100 years it was the most logical and
humane way to handle the situation. The alternative would have been to
continue the Indian wars for another 100 years.
On Thu, 14 May 2015 23:01:00 -0500
Martin Eastburn <[email protected]> wrote:
> In steep hills, the smaller diameter, taller height coastal species
> were shot down slouse (sp) lines that ran down the mountain near a
> river that feed water to the slouse. Downright dangerous having a
> massive log coming down a mountain and ending up into a pond near
> the mill. The slouse is gone, the mill and the big barns is still
> there.
i think the word is sluice not sure though
amazing trees and amazing wood
all the physics involved in those living marvels is really
interesting
the internal fluid pressures
capillary actions
etc.
the redwood i last saw at home depot was a joke
most of it sapwood which termites love
On Fri, 15 May 2015 08:32:52 -0400
"John Grossbohlin" <[email protected]> wrote:
> ...a blame the victim philosophy!
the properties of the wood is also their fault
beauty and termite/weather resistance
On Thu, 14 May 2015 19:45:51 +0000 (UTC)
John McCoy <[email protected]> wrote:
> Date's 1915, so all that cutting would have been with
> handsaws...
doubt they went to the gym after work
> In that era, the popular practice was to find a stout
> tree more or less in the middle of the area to be logged,
> strip off the branches, strap some blocks on near the
> top, and set a winch and steam donkey engine at the
> bottom. The loggers would haul a line thru the blocks
> and out to the tree they'd felled, and the winch would
> then pull it back thru the forest. At the winch site
> they'd then cut it to length to be hauled to the mill
> by ox-team or railroad.
bet those trees were fun to climb
probably needed special gaffs to do so
extra long for that bark
what a view
must have been amazing to see that operation going on
Electric Comet wrote:
>
> bet those trees were fun to climb
> probably needed special gaffs to do so
> extra long for that bark
>
> what a view
>
>
> must have been amazing to see that operation going on
If you do more google searches on these massive tree cutting ventures,
you'll find some really cool pictures of how they did things back then -
especially (IMHO), the way they used the spring boards to work their way up
the tree. Some really cool sutff!
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
On Thu, 14 May 2015 23:05:47 -0500
Martin Eastburn <[email protected]> wrote:
> Today there are two man chain saws that are large, but they are rare.
i saww one in action in a video recently
they were cutting down the remains of a diseased elm
they pulled it over with a big rope hooked to a pickup
it was more like a 20 ft. stump
On Fri, 15 May 2015 19:46:41 +0000 (UTC)
John McCoy <[email protected]> wrote:
> Flumes were more commonly used to move rough-cut lumber
> from the sawmill to a finishing mill, than they were to
> move logs. Some of them were large enough to float a
> small boat, and the lumbermen would knock together crude
> boats from the rough lumber and ride down when they had
> a day off.
before the internet what else could they do
sounds fun
today the lawyers would gasp and babble on about liability and
so on and so forth
On Fri, 15 May 2015 22:59:16 -0500
Martin Eastburn <[email protected]> wrote:
> We used to have a Tree near us that was a Blue Jay tree. They
> would peck and push a hole in the outer bark and then press in
> a acorn. The acorn typically had a worm in it. The whole mess
> would sit and cook all year and the birds would come back to
> eat the pickled worms and nut while making more holes. The tree
> looked like it was shot with a machine gun - a 50 cal - massive
> array of 1/2" holes that were darker than the other wood.
probably scrub jays which are a lot like blue jays
they are the ones that plant oak trees since sometimes they
stash the acorn in the ground and forget where they put it
next thing you know you have an oak tree
smart birds and gregarious luckily their memory it not so good
Yes - just like Basswood is a Hardwood , Yellow-poplar is hardwood.
Douglas-fir, Hemlock and "Redwood" is softwood.
(cited from Wood Handbook - US Department of Agriculture/Forest
Service/Forest Products Laboratory / FPL-GTR-190.
Classification by seed description is a bit non-technical - e.g.
A steel ball dropped from a certain distance and the dimple is measured.
The gymnosperms are a group of seed-producing plants that includes
conifers, cycads, Ginkgo, and Gnetales. The term "gymnosperm" comes from
the Greek composite word γÏ
μνÏÏÏεÏμοÏ, meaning "naked seeds"
Seeds are not really naked, each are covered in a packaging that helps
distribute it near by via air currents. They also help the seed to float.
Etymologically, angiosperm means a plant that produces seeds within an
enclosure, in other words, a fruiting plant. Flowering fruiting plants.
While it might be just fine for Botany, woodworking it carries a
different classification.
Martin
On 5/16/2015 10:58 AM, John McCoy wrote:
> Martin Eastburn <[email protected]> wrote in news:zbz5x.4621
> [email protected]:
>
>> Redwoods are officially a Hardwood.
>
> Umm, no. Redwoods are gymnosperms, not angiosperms, and thus
> they are offically a softwood.
>
> John
>
Electric Comet wrote:
>
> do not know much about felling trees but i suppose they cleaned up
> the bottom cut on the log to meet the 20 foot mark or so
>
> but the stump portion that is visible seems to also be cleaned
>
> https://imgur.com/iY73ujp
>
> maybe the photo just does not show enough and the stump is ragged
> but it does seem like it is cleaned up
>
> maybe they do that just to make it easier to haul the logs out
>
> interesting photo no matter what
>
Musta been a honking big chainsaw! ;>)
--
GW Ross
Everything's negotiable.
On 5/14/2015 1:28 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> Electric Comet wrote:
>
>> do not know much about felling trees but i suppose they cleaned up
>> the bottom cut on the log to meet the 20 foot mark or so
>
> Looks like they did clean up the hinge a bit - no idea at what length
> though.
>
>
>>
>> but the stump portion that is visible seems to also be cleaned
>
> Does not look to me like the stump is in the picture, or enough of it to
> actually see if they did any work on the stump. Would seem unlikely they
> would though - the stump is usually left as it is when the tree comes off of
> it..
>
>
>>
>> https://imgur.com/iY73ujp
>>
>> maybe the photo just does not show enough and the stump is ragged
>> but it does seem like it is cleaned up
>
> I think the former.
>
>
A guy I knew when my son was in Elementary school, went to california
and bought many of the stumps. He had a few train cars of it shipped
here. He made gorgeous tops out of it. The wood was so compressed from
the weight of the tree he said, that it was beautiful to work, and full
of figure.
I don't know what happened to that wood as he and his wife got a divorce
and it was messy. She sold all his big machines after locking him out.
He had to take out a huge loan for that wood and transport.
--
Jeff
Redwoods are officially a Hardwood. It is used extensively
in beams and structures. A nice low end is decking.
If you ever had one like myself - can't burn the stuff - but
one has to saw or chop limbs and trunks when they fall.
The outside bark is sponge with air - fire proof. but once
into the heart wood it is tough and strong.
Martin
On 5/15/2015 7:32 AM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
> "Martin Eastburn" wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>> Look in the front right - the large tree and the man arm out.
>
>> The wedge cut by axe from both sides so a thin wedge remained in the
>> center. They then sawed that wedge off until it fell - Might have
>> cleaned the split out of the base, but the base in the foreground
>> is a massive one spreading out in the left foreground.
>> That was so large, it isn't likely the same stump.
>
> If they were of the same constitution as locust they'd probably still be
> standing there... a lot harder to chop and saw.
> Since the red wood was nice and soft they were hacked down...
>
> ...a blame the victim philosophy!