Crown moulding: what is the rule of thumb for sizing it to a room?

On Sat, 27 Sep 2003 00:29:44 GMT,Tail Gunner Dave
<[email protected]> said wonderingly:

> You guys here are
>sure a lot more cranky than folks in the real world.

Billy was sucked back through the chronosynclasticindinfundibulum to
yet another when, with different hows and whys. Reality was so
plastic. He wished he knew the secret of the Trafalmadorians.


Regards, Tom
Thomas J. Watson-Cabinetmaker
Gulph Mills, Pennsylvania
http://users.snip.net/~tjwatson

above the near deafening din of puckering Tail Gunner Dave
writes:
>speaking of bandwidth; you've taken up your share today with nary a
>woodworking-related response. Fire your writers; you've lost your comic
>touch. Let's chat again when you hire fresh talent.



Hey Groggy, I'll bet you my name has more chit marks (1)
behind it than your's.

(1) A reference to the great big white board TGD keeps next
to his computer to track "Those I've Kill Filed" and "Those
Known To Be Enemies (Enemas) To Tail Gunner Dave" for anyone
playing along at home.

UA100, who took Tail Gunner's advice (advise) and fired the
kids in the hall...

Tom Watson wrote:

> On Fri, 26 Sep 2003 19:19:30 GMT,Tail Gunner Dave <[email protected]>
> wept:
>
> >You are SO helpful. like CW and
> >Larry, and Groggy, and most of all like Cramer. Perhaps you've all been
> >getting together on a regular basis for MEK sniffing parties. You
> >should donate your bodies to science for scientific study of damaged DNA.
>
> Queeg moves the balls ever more rapidly, their rythymless
> clicking magnified in the otherwise silent room.

It's not every day that a woodDorker can squeeze in a reference to the Caine
Mutiny, much less so exquisitely accurately. Actually Dave, if you look at
Tom's (oh wait, you've plonked him?) first response, you might experience
dangerous levels of enlightenment.

And a trip to the LEEbrary wouldn't hurt.

O'Deen

--
http://www.klownhammer.org/ - Home of the World-Famous Original Crowbar FAQ

Bay Area Dave wrote:
> what can I say but :) You've definitely got a way with words, and the
> patience to put 'em "out there". I'm waiting for a local library to be
> built, actually. Every time I drive by it, I think it'll open any day.


C'mon Dave,
Spent a bit of time in San Jose in the seventies and they had many
libraries (I recall three at least). There was even a huge bridge and
ramps over the freeway that went nowhere (so I thought at the time). You
can find a library in the area if you try. Musing on the seventies, I
wonder if "The Saint James Infirmary" is still in Mt. View or if Bobby
MaGee's is still there out towards Gilroy. Committed major fun and sins
in both.
Still tryin' to sin,
Hank



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Bay Area Dave <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

> You guys here are
> sure a lot more cranky than folks in the real world. every time i've
> given someone grief there has been a good reason. So what is YOUR
> reason on this thread for being a jerk?

Oh, I don't know... that you get your underwear in a wad anytime
someone looks at you sideways?

> I asked a serious question about proportions of rooms vs crown molding.

You got a serious answer from Tom, and unfortunately you were so busy
getting ruffled, you huffed right past my actual advice.

Since you asked about the rule(s) of thumb for sizing moulding to a
room, it sounded like you were looking for overall information on
design and proportion.

I suggested a visit to the LEEbrary (see, the LEEbrary is a reference
to an old-time rec.normer named Lee Ward, and his favorite solution to
any woodworking problem was to head out to the library, but then one
day (that's a 24-hour period, approximating the time it takes this
planetary spheroid, third from the Sun, sometimes known as Earth, to
complete one revolution on its axis - though it appears that our sun,
also known as Sol, rises in the east and sets in the west, the Earth
in fact is spinning. The actual velocity of the rotation depends on
the degrees of latitude north or south of the equator. For instance,
at the equator the velocity is approximately 1041 mph. At Cape
Canaveral, the velocity is a bit less, at 937mph. This rotational
velocity is the reason while vehicles intended for orbit or deep
space, are launched to the east - to take advantage of this added
velocity. As a matter of fact, this IS rocket science. DAMHIKT)
someone thought that LEEbrary was funny, and so it stuck, and that's
how it became the LEEbrary, and so when I said LEEbrary, I was using
an old rec.norm joke - rec.norm is a reference to this Usenet
newsgroup known as rec.woodworking, but another guy, Patrick Leach, a
rather confrontational, irreverent, broad-shouldered Irish bastard who
knows a lot about tools - handtools in particular. One day (we've
covered that already, refer to earlier definition) he dubbed this
newsgroup: rec.norm, an obvious reference to the bulk of the traffic
being discussion of power tools, the favorite of Norm Abram - host of
the New Yankee Workshop; Norm doesn't actually own the tools, the show
is shot in the producer's shop, a gentleman known as Russ Morash.
Though his show does lean toward power tool usage, Norm often employs
hand tools. Norm is apparently a very nice man, and I even have
autographed pictures of him although I don't know where they are at
this moment, my inkling being they're located at my ex-wife's house, a
house I used to co-own and had done many improvements, most of them
uncompensated. I have no proof that's she's attempting to hide the
autographed pictures and sell them, but I digress. Note that it is
Abram, not Abrams, Abraham, Abrahams, Ahab, Abib, Alisha, Alicia.
Elijah, Elisha, Armand nor Armageddon. It's Abram, always will be
Abram and any misspelling is not, nor every shall be acceptable. And
so I was using this established reference to a library (LEEbrary) - a
public repository of books, magazines, Internet access, newspapers,
the Reader's Guide to Perdiodical Literature, videos, 16mm film and
other media. The assumption being that a good library (previously
defined) might hold resources, namely books on architecture (there are
many periods, you might want to stick to one period per the room, my
wife's favorites are Art Deco and Art Nouveau, although she's also a
huge fan of American A&C, Greene&Greene, Frank Lloyd Wright - not to
be confused with Andrew Lloyd Webber and most of the Stickleys) where
there is a good chance that at least several of the books will provide
guidelines, a.k.a. "rules of thumb," for proportion and design when
it comes to architectural millwork (the topic under which crown
moulding falls) and that perhaps if you were to read several of these
books or at least the pertinent chapters, you might glean the
information you so desire.

That's what I meant when I typed (beginning on the home-row of a
QWERTY keyboard):
> >
> > And a trip to the LEEbrary wouldn't hurt.

If that isn't profound enough for you. Tough. Now leave me alone, I've
got a kickball game to return to. Oh yeah - and don't call me names,
you big weenie!

Sincerely,
O'Deen

OK, just for you, I'll special order moldings in that size. 8 times the
price and i'll wait 3 weeks for it. You are SO helpful. like CW and
Larry, and Groggy, and most of all like Cramer. Perhaps you've all been
getting together on a regular basis for MEK sniffing parties. You
should donate your bodies to science for scientific study of damaged DNA.

If nothing else, they are PERSISTENT. They know I've plonked them, yet
they continue to post replies. Just proves how juvenile they are and
how little self control they have! Talk to the hand fellas, because
Dave ain't listening.

dave

Robert Bonomi wrote:

> In article <[email protected]>,
> Bay Area Dave <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>>What size molding for a 13x17 room: 3.25" or 4.7". Ceiling height is 8'
>>6". The baseboards are 3.25"
>
>
> I prefer 3.141592. That way the dimensions are simple as 'pi'. <groan>

On Tue, 30 Sep 2003 19:26:29 GMT, Bay Area Dave <[email protected]>
wrote:

>LOL! good one!


Thanks, Dave. I was goofing around on that one but not so in my
initial reply to your question.

Palladio goes into exquisite (some would say, excruciating) detail on
the relationship of the entablature to the base. His discussion is
particularly about columns but your wall is, in fact, a column for the
purposes of the discussion.

What looks good to us is not something that springs, unbidden, from
our innards but is, in fact, a response to a transmitted paradigm,
communicated to us over literally thousands of years of architectural
history.

We are the recipients of a shared historical sensibility in the regard
of architectural elements and their balance. "What seems right", is
not, as some have expressed, a matter of personal whim, but is the
result of an osmotic transference from the great good of public
architecture in the past to our current, I would say weakened, state
as thinkers within a tradition.

It may seem, on the face of it, to be a wasteful exercise, this study
of our architectural antecedents but, I assure you it is not.

Even in that most venal expression of detail, the clamshell molding,
there is a wealth of history, albeit criminally misunderstood.

Proportion is both art and science. Witness the discipline imposed on
Western architectural thought by the concept of the Golden Mean. We
know that it works, as it holds sway throughout our culture, from the
sizing of movie screens to the proportions of the credit cards we
often use to gain access to them.

If Palladio is a point of reference, does that not beg the question of
his own referents?

Certainly to the Romans, but did they not merely ape and modify the
Greeks?

Beyond the Greeks?

Some scholars argue that there must be an organic underpinning to our
architectural lineage. They say that early public architecture mimed
the proportions of certain trees. I wonder.

Shortly after assuming the upright posture, man built shelters. As
his abilities grew, so did his buildings. When he had achieved a
level of society beyond that of the merely familial, he engaged in
public architecture. I would argue that the original concepts of
proportionality are organic, but not based on trees, so much as on
man, himself. Look at the famous drawing of Leonardo DaVinci and the
proportions of his Man. Take those proportions and apply them to
those expressed in the concepts of Palladio, who was really only a
codifier of historical precedent.

I know, you just wanted to know a "rule of thumb" regarding the
relationship of your existing baseboard to your proposed crown
molding. "Rule of Thumb" might turn out to be not such a bad
expression of the problem. Not merely "rule of thumb" but the
relationship between head (capo) and foot (pedestal).

Of course, we all rush headlong through that which does not seem so
involving, to get to that which seems so much to be so but, isn't life
more interesting when "why" is not merely a homonym for the twenty
fifth letter of the alphabet?


Regards, Tom
Thomas J. Watson-Cabinetmaker
Gulph Mills, Pennsylvania
http://users.snip.net/~tjwatson

On 30 Sep 2003 10:51:17 -0700, [email protected] (Patrick Olguin)
wrote:


>Oh, I don't know... that you get your underwear in a wad anytime
>someone looks at you sideways?
>


The "T" was crossed
The cannons roared
The small ship sank
With all aboard


(uh oh, I seem to have gone from BAD to verse)




Regards, Tom
Thomas J. Watson-Cabinetmaker
Gulph Mills, Pennsylvania
http://users.snip.net/~tjwatson

Groggy wrote:
>So, who *are* these mystery "admirers" of his?

Pam Needsaminder, Man In The Doorway, Puppy Wizard. Pretty
much anyone who can match his signal to noise ratio.

UA100, Starrett owner...

Groggy wrote:
>I wonder if TGD could handle a jet flying granny from the Sinai?

He is a jet flying granny from the Sinai.

>So where ARE those WMD, uh, I mean "admirers".

Uh, huh. Pisses me off that they are screwing with my grand
master plan that the Evil Dr. Cheney would keel over from a
heart attack thus leaving the post ripe for Colin Powell to
take and eventually becoming our first black president.

sigh...

Leave it to the Bushes to be one term wunders...

UA100, wondering, Jeb in '08?...

"Unisaw A100" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> above the near deafening din of puckering Tail Gunner Dave
> writes:

> Hey Groggy, I'll bet you my name has more chit marks (1)
> behind it than your's.

Probably, but then, he was giving us all the *chits* at about the same time.

>
> (1) A reference to the great big white board TGD keeps next
> to his computer to track "Those I've Kill Filed" and "Those
> Known To Be Enemies (Enemas) To Tail Gunner Dave" for anyone
> playing along at home.

I'm wondering when he's going to figure out the CNS reference from Tom...

I wonder if TGD could handle a jet flying granny from the Sinai?

Greg

So where ARE those WMD, uh, I mean "admirers".

no the assholes who can't answer a WW question need to get a life!

JackD wrote:

> "Tom Watson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>On Fri, 26 Sep 2003 19:19:30 GMT,Tail Gunner Dave <[email protected]>
>>wept:
>>
>>
>>>You are SO helpful. like CW and
>>>Larry, and Groggy, and most of all like Cramer. Perhaps you've all been
>>>getting together on a regular basis for MEK sniffing parties. You
>>>should donate your bodies to science for scientific study of damaged DNA.
>>
>>
>>Queeg moves the balls ever more rapidly, their rythymless
>>clicking magnified in the otherwise silent room.
>
>
> LOL!
> Ol' BAD needs to lighten up.
>
> -Jack
>
>

thanks Rico. I was leaning towards the larger size. As soon as the
traffic eases, I'm on my way to the store! Oh, I forgot to mention; the
molding will be oak, stained to match the floor, plus a chair rail of oak...

dave

Rico wrote:

> Bay Area Dave wrote:
>
>>What size molding for a 13x17 room: 3.25" or 4.7". Ceiling height is 8'
>>6". The baseboards are 3.25"
>>
>>dave
>>
>>
>
>
> I'm looking into doing a 14 x 19 room with 9 foot ceilings,
> not that much bigger than yours. I thought the piece of
> 3.25 I had on hand and tried for a fitup looked real lost in
> that room.
>
> When the builder sucks people in for the optional crown
> molding for that room, he uses something I crudely measured
> at 5 inches and it looks right. They use 3.25 baseboards and
> the baseboards and nominal 5 inch crown molding look good
> together in the model home. The $800 option charge didn't
> look right though ;-)
>
> I hadn't actually considered the difference between the 3.25
> baseboards and the ~5 inch crown moldings until you
> mentioned it. I'm kind of fussy about things looking
> balanced, so the fact that I hadn't noticed it is good.
>
> The room also has the standard smallish 2.25 door moldings
> and they look OK with the wide crown molding too.
>
> I'm going to do the wide crown molding then select window
> moldings by buying a few samples and seeing which looks
> best.
>
> Rico
>
>
> -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
> -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

LOL! good one!

dave

Tom Watson wrote:

> On 30 Sep 2003 10:51:17 -0700, [email protected] (Patrick Olguin)
> wrote:
>
>
>
>>Oh, I don't know... that you get your underwear in a wad anytime
>>someone looks at you sideways?
>>
>
>
>
> The "T" was crossed
> The cannons roared
> The small ship sank
> With all aboard
>
>
> (uh oh, I seem to have gone from BAD to verse)
>
>
>
>
> Regards, Tom
> Thomas J. Watson-Cabinetmaker
> Gulph Mills, Pennsylvania
> http://users.snip.net/~tjwatson

In article <[email protected]>,
Bay Area Dave <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>What size molding for a 13x17 room: 3.25" or 4.7". Ceiling height is 8'
>6". The baseboards are 3.25"

I prefer 3.141592. That way the dimensions are simple as 'pi'. <groan>

Robert,

I AGREE that the best approach is to buy small pieces of both sizes and
try it. seeing as I'm using stained oak, I anticipate it will look
"larger" than the same size white trim, but that's just a guess...

dave

Robert Bonomi wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Bay Area Dave <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>>why do you guys keep saying i've plonked everyone? Tom is not plonked.
>> hardly anyone is. just a handful of folks with no redeeming
>>qualities. I'm sure you'd say that about me too. You guys here are
>>sure a lot more cranky than folks in the real world. every time i've
>>given someone grief there has been a good reason. So what is YOUR
>>reason on this thread for being a jerk? I asked a serious question
>>about proportions of rooms vs crown molding. Can't think of anything
>>profound to say, so you resort to playground behavior. grow up
>
>
>
> But you don't recognize a serious answer, when couched playfully, even
> when somebody hits you in the face with it.
>
> The answer to your question is "what looks right *to*you*". You're the
> one who's going to have to "live with" the consequences of your decision.
>
> Best thing to do is mock up a corner, in place, in each size. Then stand
> back and *LOOK* at it. See which you like better.
>
>
>>dave
>>
>>Patrick Olguin (O'Deen) wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Tom Watson wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>On Fri, 26 Sep 2003 19:19:30 GMT,Tail Gunner Dave <[email protected]>
>>>>wept:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>You are SO helpful. like CW and
>>>>>Larry, and Groggy, and most of all like Cramer. Perhaps you've all been
>>>>>getting together on a regular basis for MEK sniffing parties. You
>>>>>should donate your bodies to science for scientific study of damaged DNA.
>>>>
>>>> Queeg moves the balls ever more rapidly, their rythymless
>>>> clicking magnified in the otherwise silent room.
>>>
>>>
>>>It's not every day that a woodDorker can squeeze in a reference to the Caine
>>>Mutiny, much less so exquisitely accurately. Actually Dave, if you look at
>>>Tom's (oh wait, you've plonked him?) first response, you might experience
>>>dangerous levels of enlightenment.
>>>
>>>And a trip to the LEEbrary wouldn't hurt.
>>>
>>>O'Deen
>>>
>>>--
>>>http://www.klownhammer.org/ - Home of the World-Famous Original Crowbar FAQ
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>

Bay Area Dave wrote:
> What size molding for a 13x17 room: 3.25" or 4.7". Ceiling height is 8'
> 6". The baseboards are 3.25"
>
> dave
>
>

I'm looking into doing a 14 x 19 room with 9 foot ceilings,
not that much bigger than yours. I thought the piece of
3.25 I had on hand and tried for a fitup looked real lost in
that room.

When the builder sucks people in for the optional crown
molding for that room, he uses something I crudely measured
at 5 inches and it looks right. They use 3.25 baseboards and
the baseboards and nominal 5 inch crown molding look good
together in the model home. The $800 option charge didn't
look right though ;-)

I hadn't actually considered the difference between the 3.25
baseboards and the ~5 inch crown moldings until you
mentioned it. I'm kind of fussy about things looking
balanced, so the fact that I hadn't noticed it is good.

The room also has the standard smallish 2.25 door moldings
and they look OK with the wide crown molding too.

I'm going to do the wide crown molding then select window
moldings by buying a few samples and seeing which looks
best.

Rico


-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
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-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

Bay Area Dave wrote:
> I AGREE that the best approach is to buy small pieces of both sizes and
> try it. seeing as I'm using stained oak, I anticipate it will look
> "larger" than the same size white trim, but that's just a guess...
>
> dave
>
>

All the more reason to try it.



-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
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-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

speaking of bandwidth; you've taken up your share today with nary a
woodworking-related response. Fire your writers; you've lost your comic
touch. Let's chat again when you hire fresh talent.

dave

Unisaw A100 wrote:

> Groggy wrote:
>
>>So, who *are* these mystery "admirers" of his?
>
>
> Pam Needsaminder, Man In The Doorway, Puppy Wizard. Pretty
> much anyone who can match his signal to noise ratio.
>
> UA100, Starrett owner...

BEFORE I read your sophomoric post here, I'd already thanked Jack. I'm
disappointed in you Keith. I know you are the brightest bulb on the
string, but I didn't think you'd make such a faulty prediction of my
behavior. Maybe we aren't the soul mates you thought we were? BTW, I'm
gonna be pissed if I forget to get my beer out of the freezer...bye!

dave

Unisaw A100 wrote:

> JackD wrote:
>
>>You don't need to take things personally.
>
>
> Jeez Jack, just what planet are you from. We all know, it's
> all about TGD.
>
>
>>As for my opinion on crown moulding, I'd get some double sided tape and put
>>up a couple pieces of each size and decide which one I like better. I've
>>seen some big crown moulding that looks overblown to the point of being
>>ridiculous. It is a matter of taste.
>
>
> Very good idea. Don't expect TGD to fall all over his self
> thanking you though.
>
> Heh, heh, heh...
>
> UA100

In article <[email protected]>,
Bay Area Dave <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>Robert,
>
>I AGREE that the best approach is to buy small pieces of both sizes and
>try it. seeing as I'm using stained oak, I anticipate it will look
>"larger" than the same size white trim, but that's just a guess...

I'd be _real_ surprised if it didn't. Dark against light tends to "show"
bigger than light against dark.

Other significant factor for what 'looks right' is how high the ceiling is.
the further up it is, the bigger the moulding you can get away with.
>
>dave
>
>Robert Bonomi wrote:
>> In article <[email protected]>,
>> Bay Area Dave <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>why do you guys keep saying i've plonked everyone? Tom is not plonked.
>>> hardly anyone is. just a handful of folks with no redeeming
>>>qualities. I'm sure you'd say that about me too. You guys here are
>>>sure a lot more cranky than folks in the real world. every time i've
>>>given someone grief there has been a good reason. So what is YOUR
>>>reason on this thread for being a jerk? I asked a serious question
>>>about proportions of rooms vs crown molding. Can't think of anything
>>>profound to say, so you resort to playground behavior. grow up
>>
>>
>>
>> But you don't recognize a serious answer, when couched playfully, even
>> when somebody hits you in the face with it.
>>
>> The answer to your question is "what looks right *to*you*". You're the
>> one who's going to have to "live with" the consequences of your decision.
>>
>> Best thing to do is mock up a corner, in place, in each size. Then stand
>> back and *LOOK* at it. See which you like better.
>>
>>
>>>dave
>>>
>>>Patrick Olguin (O'Deen) wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Tom Watson wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>On Fri, 26 Sep 2003 19:19:30 GMT,Tail Gunner Dave <[email protected]>
>>>>>wept:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>You are SO helpful. like CW and
>>>>>>Larry, and Groggy, and most of all like Cramer. Perhaps you've all been
>>>>>>getting together on a regular basis for MEK sniffing parties. You
>>>>>>should donate your bodies to science for scientific study of damaged DNA.
>>>>>
>>>>> Queeg moves the balls ever more rapidly, their rythymless
>>>>> clicking magnified in the otherwise silent room.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>It's not every day that a woodDorker can squeeze in a reference to the Caine
>>>>Mutiny, much less so exquisitely accurately. Actually Dave, if you look at
>>>>Tom's (oh wait, you've plonked him?) first response, you might experience
>>>>dangerous levels of enlightenment.
>>>>
>>>>And a trip to the LEEbrary wouldn't hurt.
>>>>
>>>>O'Deen
>>>>
>>>>--
>>>>http://www.klownhammer.org/ - Home of the World-Famous Original Crowbar FAQ
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>

On 26 Sep 2003, Bay Area Dave demanded:

> What size molding for a 13x17 room

I'd recommend twice the length plus twice the width, with a little extra
for coping.

why do you guys keep saying i've plonked everyone? Tom is not plonked.
hardly anyone is. just a handful of folks with no redeeming
qualities. I'm sure you'd say that about me too. You guys here are
sure a lot more cranky than folks in the real world. every time i've
given someone grief there has been a good reason. So what is YOUR
reason on this thread for being a jerk? I asked a serious question
about proportions of rooms vs crown molding. Can't think of anything
profound to say, so you resort to playground behavior. grow up

dave

Patrick Olguin (O'Deen) wrote:

> Tom Watson wrote:
>
>
>>On Fri, 26 Sep 2003 19:19:30 GMT,Tail Gunner Dave <[email protected]>
>>wept:
>>
>>
>>>You are SO helpful. like CW and
>>>Larry, and Groggy, and most of all like Cramer. Perhaps you've all been
>>>getting together on a regular basis for MEK sniffing parties. You
>>>should donate your bodies to science for scientific study of damaged DNA.
>>
>> Queeg moves the balls ever more rapidly, their rythymless
>> clicking magnified in the otherwise silent room.
>
>
> It's not every day that a woodDorker can squeeze in a reference to the Caine
> Mutiny, much less so exquisitely accurately. Actually Dave, if you look at
> Tom's (oh wait, you've plonked him?) first response, you might experience
> dangerous levels of enlightenment.
>
> And a trip to the LEEbrary wouldn't hurt.
>
> O'Deen
>
> --
> http://www.klownhammer.org/ - Home of the World-Famous Original Crowbar FAQ
>
>

"Unisaw A100" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Puckering Tail Gunner Dave:
> >I know you are the brightest bulb on the string,
>
>
>
>
>
> Well thank you Dave. That is very kind of you. Maybe your
> personality disorder wasn't as bad as I thought.
>
> UA100, back with a whole new string of writing talent...

Well before you go getting a big head and all, don't forget - you're still
not funny.

"Tom Watson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sat, 27 Sep 2003 00:29:44 GMT,Tail Gunner Dave
> <[email protected]> said wonderingly:
>
> Billy was sucked back through the chronosynclasticindinfundibulum to
> yet another when, with different hows and whys. Reality was so
> plastic. He wished he knew the secret of the Trafalmadorians.

Dave Wildhack, that must be it!

Greg

yeah, yeah, yeah, and if a tree falls in the forest with no one around,
does it make a sound? Tom, you've should go build some cabinets. or is
your sig line a fraud? You, also cannot resist the temptation to join
the fray, huh? sigh...


dave

Tom Watson wrote:

> On Fri, 26 Sep 2003 19:19:30 GMT,Tail Gunner Dave <[email protected]>
> wept:
>
>
>>You are SO helpful. like CW and
>>Larry, and Groggy, and most of all like Cramer. Perhaps you've all been
>>getting together on a regular basis for MEK sniffing parties. You
>>should donate your bodies to science for scientific study of damaged DNA.
>
>
>
> Queeg moves the balls ever more rapidly, their rythymless
> clicking magnified in the otherwise silent room.
>
>
>
>
>
> Regards, Tom
> Thomas J. Watson-Cabinetmaker
> Gulph Mills, Pennsylvania
> http://users.snip.net/~tjwatson

what can I say but :) You've definitely got a way with words, and the
patience to put 'em "out there". I'm waiting for a local library to be
built, actually. Every time I drive by it, I think it'll open any day.
But, hey this is San Jose, where everything takes too long to build,
esp the Highway 87 improvements. sigh...when they open I'll take a peek.
I'll tell them you've sent me for a book on proportions. no, not
Biblical proportions; just everyday proportions...

I must have been REALLY cranky by the time I responded to you previous
post! My bad! that's as close as I gonna approach an apology...


dave

Patrick Olguin wrote:

> Bay Area Dave <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
>
>
>>You guys here are
>>sure a lot more cranky than folks in the real world. every time i've
>>given someone grief there has been a good reason. So what is YOUR
>>reason on this thread for being a jerk?
>
>
> Oh, I don't know... that you get your underwear in a wad anytime
> someone looks at you sideways?
>
>
>>I asked a serious question about proportions of rooms vs crown molding.
>
>
> You got a serious answer from Tom, and unfortunately you were so busy
> getting ruffled, you huffed right past my actual advice.
>
> Since you asked about the rule(s) of thumb for sizing moulding to a
> room, it sounded like you were looking for overall information on
> design and proportion.
>
> I suggested a visit to the LEEbrary (see, the LEEbrary is a reference
> to an old-time rec.normer named Lee Ward, and his favorite solution to
> any woodworking problem was to head out to the library, but then one
> day (that's a 24-hour period, approximating the time it takes this
> planetary spheroid, third from the Sun, sometimes known as Earth, to
> complete one revolution on its axis - though it appears that our sun,
> also known as Sol, rises in the east and sets in the west, the Earth
> in fact is spinning. The actual velocity of the rotation depends on
> the degrees of latitude north or south of the equator. For instance,
> at the equator the velocity is approximately 1041 mph. At Cape
> Canaveral, the velocity is a bit less, at 937mph. This rotational
> velocity is the reason while vehicles intended for orbit or deep
> space, are launched to the east - to take advantage of this added
> velocity. As a matter of fact, this IS rocket science. DAMHIKT)
> someone thought that LEEbrary was funny, and so it stuck, and that's
> how it became the LEEbrary, and so when I said LEEbrary, I was using
> an old rec.norm joke - rec.norm is a reference to this Usenet
> newsgroup known as rec.woodworking, but another guy, Patrick Leach, a
> rather confrontational, irreverent, broad-shouldered Irish bastard who
> knows a lot about tools - handtools in particular. One day (we've
> covered that already, refer to earlier definition) he dubbed this
> newsgroup: rec.norm, an obvious reference to the bulk of the traffic
> being discussion of power tools, the favorite of Norm Abram - host of
> the New Yankee Workshop; Norm doesn't actually own the tools, the show
> is shot in the producer's shop, a gentleman known as Russ Morash.
> Though his show does lean toward power tool usage, Norm often employs
> hand tools. Norm is apparently a very nice man, and I even have
> autographed pictures of him although I don't know where they are at
> this moment, my inkling being they're located at my ex-wife's house, a
> house I used to co-own and had done many improvements, most of them
> uncompensated. I have no proof that's she's attempting to hide the
> autographed pictures and sell them, but I digress. Note that it is
> Abram, not Abrams, Abraham, Abrahams, Ahab, Abib, Alisha, Alicia.
> Elijah, Elisha, Armand nor Armageddon. It's Abram, always will be
> Abram and any misspelling is not, nor every shall be acceptable. And
> so I was using this established reference to a library (LEEbrary) - a
> public repository of books, magazines, Internet access, newspapers,
> the Reader's Guide to Perdiodical Literature, videos, 16mm film and
> other media. The assumption being that a good library (previously
> defined) might hold resources, namely books on architecture (there are
> many periods, you might want to stick to one period per the room, my
> wife's favorites are Art Deco and Art Nouveau, although she's also a
> huge fan of American A&C, Greene&Greene, Frank Lloyd Wright - not to
> be confused with Andrew Lloyd Webber and most of the Stickleys) where
> there is a good chance that at least several of the books will provide
> guidelines, a.k.a. "rules of thumb," for proportion and design when
> it comes to architectural millwork (the topic under which crown
> moulding falls) and that perhaps if you were to read several of these
> books or at least the pertinent chapters, you might glean the
> information you so desire.
>
> That's what I meant when I typed (beginning on the home-row of a
> QWERTY keyboard):
>
>>>And a trip to the LEEbrary wouldn't hurt.
>
>
> If that isn't profound enough for you. Tough. Now leave me alone, I've
> got a kickball game to return to. Oh yeah - and don't call me names,
> you big weenie!
>
> Sincerely,
> O'Deen

"Tom Watson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Fri, 26 Sep 2003 19:19:30 GMT,Tail Gunner Dave <[email protected]>
> wept:
>
> >You are SO helpful. like CW and
> >Larry, and Groggy, and most of all like Cramer. Perhaps you've all been
> >getting together on a regular basis for MEK sniffing parties. You
> >should donate your bodies to science for scientific study of damaged DNA.
>
>
> Queeg moves the balls ever more rapidly, their rythymless
> clicking magnified in the otherwise silent room.

LOL!
Ol' BAD needs to lighten up.

-Jack

"Bay Area Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> no the assholes who can't answer a WW question need to get a life!

BAD,

I thought some of the answers were amusing and none appeared to be personal
attacks. You don't need to take things personally.

As for my opinion on crown moulding, I'd get some double sided tape and put
up a couple pieces of each size and decide which one I like better. I've
seen some big crown moulding that looks overblown to the point of being
ridiculous. It is a matter of taste.

-Jack

JackD wrote:
>You don't need to take things personally.

Jeez Jack, just what planet are you from. We all know, it's
all about TGD.

>As for my opinion on crown moulding, I'd get some double sided tape and put
>up a couple pieces of each size and decide which one I like better. I've
>seen some big crown moulding that looks overblown to the point of being
>ridiculous. It is a matter of taste.

Very good idea. Don't expect TGD to fall all over his self
thanking you though.

Heh, heh, heh...

UA100

On Fri, 26 Sep 2003 19:19:30 GMT,Tail Gunner Dave <[email protected]>
wept:

>You are SO helpful. like CW and
>Larry, and Groggy, and most of all like Cramer. Perhaps you've all been
>getting together on a regular basis for MEK sniffing parties. You
>should donate your bodies to science for scientific study of damaged DNA.


Queeg moves the balls ever more rapidly, their rythymless
clicking magnified in the otherwise silent room.





Regards, Tom
Thomas J. Watson-Cabinetmaker
Gulph Mills, Pennsylvania
http://users.snip.net/~tjwatson

Keith,

You are at your most eloquent when you reply with a blank message.

dave

Unisaw A100 wrote:

> Tail Gunner Dave wrote:
>
>>Talk to the hand fellas, because Dave ain't listening.
>
>
>
> One thing you can say for sure, he sure do paint a pitcher
> with werds, even if they aren't/weren't his to begin with.
>
> UA100

let me amend this to read "I know you areN'T the brightest bulb..."
(damned keyboard! :) )

dave

Bay Area Dave wrote:

> BEFORE I read your sophomoric post here, I'd already thanked Jack. I'm
> disappointed in you Keith. I know you are the brightest bulb on the
> string, but I didn't think you'd make such a faulty prediction of my
> behavior. Maybe we aren't the soul mates you thought we were? BTW, I'm
> gonna be pissed if I forget to get my beer out of the freezer...bye!
>
> dave
>
> Unisaw A100 wrote:
>
>> JackD wrote:
>>
>>> You don't need to take things personally.
>>
>>
>>
>> Jeez Jack, just what planet are you from. We all know, it's
>> all about TGD.
>>
>>
>>> As for my opinion on crown moulding, I'd get some double sided tape
>>> and put
>>> up a couple pieces of each size and decide which one I like better. I've
>>> seen some big crown moulding that looks overblown to the point of being
>>> ridiculous. It is a matter of taste.
>>
>>
>>
>> Very good idea. Don't expect TGD to fall all over his self
>> thanking you though.
>>
>> Heh, heh, heh...
>>
>> UA100
>
>

On Fri, 26 Sep 2003 20:41:30 GMT, Bay Area Dave <[email protected]>
Crawled out of the shop and said. . .:

>yeah, yeah, yeah, and if a tree falls in the forest with no one around,
>does it make a sound? Tom, you've should go build some cabinets. or is
>your sig line a fraud? You, also cannot resist the temptation to join
>the fray, huh? sigh...

snip

Wow dave,,,someone shit in your shoes today?

seems to me, all you ever do is post some silly question, then bitch
about 99% of the freaking replies!!!

do us all a favor, cross your legs, pinch your nose shut and fart.
perhaps that way you can clear your mind.

T

In article <[email protected]>,
Bay Area Dave <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>why do you guys keep saying i've plonked everyone? Tom is not plonked.
> hardly anyone is. just a handful of folks with no redeeming
>qualities. I'm sure you'd say that about me too. You guys here are
>sure a lot more cranky than folks in the real world. every time i've
>given someone grief there has been a good reason. So what is YOUR
>reason on this thread for being a jerk? I asked a serious question
>about proportions of rooms vs crown molding. Can't think of anything
>profound to say, so you resort to playground behavior. grow up


But you don't recognize a serious answer, when couched playfully, even
when somebody hits you in the face with it.

The answer to your question is "what looks right *to*you*". You're the
one who's going to have to "live with" the consequences of your decision.

Best thing to do is mock up a corner, in place, in each size. Then stand
back and *LOOK* at it. See which you like better.

>
>dave
>
>Patrick Olguin (O'Deen) wrote:
>
>> Tom Watson wrote:
>>
>>
>>>On Fri, 26 Sep 2003 19:19:30 GMT,Tail Gunner Dave <[email protected]>
>>>wept:
>>>
>>>
>>>>You are SO helpful. like CW and
>>>>Larry, and Groggy, and most of all like Cramer. Perhaps you've all been
>>>>getting together on a regular basis for MEK sniffing parties. You
>>>>should donate your bodies to science for scientific study of damaged DNA.
>>>
>>> Queeg moves the balls ever more rapidly, their rythymless
>>> clicking magnified in the otherwise silent room.
>>
>>
>> It's not every day that a woodDorker can squeeze in a reference to the Caine
>> Mutiny, much less so exquisitely accurately. Actually Dave, if you look at
>> Tom's (oh wait, you've plonked him?) first response, you might experience
>> dangerous levels of enlightenment.
>>
>> And a trip to the LEEbrary wouldn't hurt.
>>
>> O'Deen
>>
>> --
>> http://www.klownhammer.org/ - Home of the World-Famous Original Crowbar FAQ
>>
>>
>

On Fri, 26 Sep 2003 15:39:40 -0400, Tom Watson
<[email protected]> pixelated:

>On Fri, 26 Sep 2003 19:19:30 GMT,Tail Gunner Dave <[email protected]>
>wept:
>
>>You are SO helpful. like CW and
>>Larry, and Groggy, and most of all like Cramer. Perhaps you've all been
>>getting together on a regular basis for MEK sniffing parties. You
>>should donate your bodies to science for scientific study of damaged DNA.
>
>
> Queeg moves the balls ever more rapidly, their rythymless
> clicking magnified in the otherwise silent room.
>

He's close there. I'm donating my body to science fiction.


--
Music washes away from the soul the dust of everyday life.
---- --Unknown

Hank, I've heard of SJI, but don't know of it's fate. As far as
libraries go, I hardly ever venture downtown. The branch libraries
around my part of town SUCK to put it indelicately. That's why I'm
waiting for the shiny new branch to open up.

Here's a bit of SJ nostalgia for you, Hank: Remember Isadore's on
Steven's Creek Blvd? A large nightclub with a trolley inside. They had
one of the best cover bands I've heard ANYWHERE. Early to mid 70's
IIRC. I'm trying to remember their name...damn...can't remember yet.

dave

Henry St.Pierre wrote:

> Bay Area Dave wrote:
>
>> what can I say but :) You've definitely got a way with words, and the
>> patience to put 'em "out there". I'm waiting for a local library to
>> be built, actually. Every time I drive by it, I think it'll open any
>> day.
>
>
>
> C'mon Dave,
> Spent a bit of time in San Jose in the seventies and they had many
> libraries (I recall three at least). There was even a huge bridge and
> ramps over the freeway that went nowhere (so I thought at the time). You
> can find a library in the area if you try. Musing on the seventies, I
> wonder if "The Saint James Infirmary" is still in Mt. View or if Bobby
> MaGee's is still there out towards Gilroy. Committed major fun and sins
> in both.
> Still tryin' to sin,
> Hank
>
>
>
> -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
> -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

On Fri, 26 Sep 2003 15:28:37 GMT, Bay Area Dave <[email protected]>
wrote:

>What size molding for a 13x17 room: 3.25" or 4.7". Ceiling height is 8'
>6". The baseboards are 3.25"
>
>dave

if the baseboards are only 3.25 i would use 2.75 crown. things tend to
look strange when the base is smaller than the crown. if you are
staining the smaller crown looks better. if painted a similar color to
the wall larger looks beter. i would get some scraps of different
sizes and finish them and tack em up on diffwerent walls and then make
a decision as to what i liked best.

>In article <[email protected]>,
>Bay Area Dave <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>What size molding for a 13x17 room: 3.25" or 4.7". Ceiling height is 8'
>>6". The baseboards are 3.25"


cf: The Four Books of Architecture, Andrea Palladio, Dover, 1965
(orig. 1570).


Regards, Tom
Thomas J. Watson-Cabinetmaker
Gulph Mills, Pennsylvania
http://users.snip.net/~tjwatson

On Sat, 27 Sep 2003 00:29:44 GMT, Bay Area Dave <[email protected]>
wrote:

> grow up

Damn, if'n O'Deen grew up any more, he'd have ta live outdoors.


Regards, Tom
Thomas J. Watson-Cabinetmaker
Gulph Mills, Pennsylvania
http://users.snip.net/~tjwatson

Puckering Tail Gunner Dave:
>I know you are the brightest bulb on the string,





Well thank you Dave. That is very kind of you. Maybe your
personality disorder wasn't as bad as I thought.

UA100, back with a whole new string of writing talent...

Tail Gunner Dave wrote:
>Talk to the hand fellas, because Dave ain't listening.


One thing you can say for sure, he sure do paint a pitcher
with werds, even if they aren't/weren't his to begin with.

UA100

"Unisaw A100" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Tail Gunner Dave wrote:
> >Talk to the hand fellas, because Dave ain't listening.

TGD seems to think we actually give a sh*t. Maybe if I post a picture of me
shrugging....

Groggy (who's very happy with his 4" starrett square TYVM)

So, who *are* these mystery "admirers" of his?

Having read your every word, I feel entitled to an honorary degree in
...well...SOMETHING! Archie texture? Damn, you've got a way with
words. Everybody else: step away from your keyboards!

So...I should hang the larger crown? :)

dave

Tom Watson wrote:

> On Tue, 30 Sep 2003 19:26:29 GMT, Bay Area Dave <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>
>>LOL! good one!
>
>
>
> Thanks, Dave. I was goofing around on that one but not so in my
> initial reply to your question.
>
> Palladio goes into exquisite (some would say, excruciating) detail on
> the relationship of the entablature to the base. His discussion is
> particularly about columns but your wall is, in fact, a column for the
> purposes of the discussion.
>
> What looks good to us is not something that springs, unbidden, from
> our innards but is, in fact, a response to a transmitted paradigm,
> communicated to us over literally thousands of years of architectural
> history.
>
> We are the recipients of a shared historical sensibility in the regard
> of architectural elements and their balance. "What seems right", is
> not, as some have expressed, a matter of personal whim, but is the
> result of an osmotic transference from the great good of public
> architecture in the past to our current, I would say weakened, state
> as thinkers within a tradition.
>
> It may seem, on the face of it, to be a wasteful exercise, this study
> of our architectural antecedents but, I assure you it is not.
>
> Even in that most venal expression of detail, the clamshell molding,
> there is a wealth of history, albeit criminally misunderstood.
>
> Proportion is both art and science. Witness the discipline imposed on
> Western architectural thought by the concept of the Golden Mean. We
> know that it works, as it holds sway throughout our culture, from the
> sizing of movie screens to the proportions of the credit cards we
> often use to gain access to them.
>
> If Palladio is a point of reference, does that not beg the question of
> his own referents?
>
> Certainly to the Romans, but did they not merely ape and modify the
> Greeks?
>
> Beyond the Greeks?
>
> Some scholars argue that there must be an organic underpinning to our
> architectural lineage. They say that early public architecture mimed
> the proportions of certain trees. I wonder.
>
> Shortly after assuming the upright posture, man built shelters. As
> his abilities grew, so did his buildings. When he had achieved a
> level of society beyond that of the merely familial, he engaged in
> public architecture. I would argue that the original concepts of
> proportionality are organic, but not based on trees, so much as on
> man, himself. Look at the famous drawing of Leonardo DaVinci and the
> proportions of his Man. Take those proportions and apply them to
> those expressed in the concepts of Palladio, who was really only a
> codifier of historical precedent.
>
> I know, you just wanted to know a "rule of thumb" regarding the
> relationship of your existing baseboard to your proposed crown
> molding. "Rule of Thumb" might turn out to be not such a bad
> expression of the problem. Not merely "rule of thumb" but the
> relationship between head (capo) and foot (pedestal).
>
> Of course, we all rush headlong through that which does not seem so
> involving, to get to that which seems so much to be so but, isn't life
> more interesting when "why" is not merely a homonym for the twenty
> fifth letter of the alphabet?
>
>
> Regards, Tom
> Thomas J. Watson-Cabinetmaker
> Gulph Mills, Pennsylvania
> http://users.snip.net/~tjwatson

thank you for a reasonable reply, Jack. I can have someone hold up a
small piece of each size, but I'm doubtful that I will get a true sense
of how it's gonna look when completed. Its funny how every time I've
asked (I think this is the 3rd or 4th question regarding visual balance
or wood grain) opinions I get blasted. I know that there are
"standards" for furniture, building standards, etc. Then when someone
posts a question about "what should the walls be in my shop", 30 guys
give long winded advice about their favorite wall covering, be it sheet
rock, OSB, ply, or whatever. If someone asks "what color should the
walls be", 30 guys will reply "white, near white, glossy, semi-gloss,
flat." No one seems to reply, "I can't believe you are asking--do it
however you want". So you see when I get those replies, naturally I get
perturbed at the offenders. I'd much prefer if they dislike me to just
filter me out and get on with life.

anywho, thanks for your suggestion. I think I will take your advice
and try 2 sizes before making up my mind.

dave

JackD wrote:

> "Bay Area Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>no the assholes who can't answer a WW question need to get a life!
>
>
> BAD,
>
> I thought some of the answers were amusing and none appeared to be personal
> attacks. You don't need to take things personally.
>
> As for my opinion on crown moulding, I'd get some double sided tape and put
> up a couple pieces of each size and decide which one I like better. I've
> seen some big crown moulding that looks overblown to the point of being
> ridiculous. It is a matter of taste.
>
> -Jack
>
>
>