I just got off the phone with the Jet tools Customer service dept. I
needed a belt for my 9x20 metal lathe. Their price was $27.95 for a v
belt that weighs 1/4 oz (that is what a pencil weighs). OK I am stupid
enough to buy this POS lathe, I have to pony up for the parts. Then
they told me that the shipping was a flat rate of $19.95 for parts
costing over $20.00. That's almost $48.00 for a v belt! I got a
supervisor on the line who told me the same old "I don't make the rules,
I just live by them" and then offered to do a one time special deal just
for me since I was so upset of only $9.95 shipping. I told her to tell
the bean counting MBA's upstairs to quit ripping people off and trying
to back door profits by jacking the shipping costs. I told her I just
sent a part across the US that weighs 28 times what the belt does for
$3.85 USPS Priority mail. I told her forget it, and told her I will
never buy another Jet tool. I called Grizzly and the CSR told me the
price was $25.00 for the belt (the 9x20 lathes are all the same). I got
an email from them last week that quoted the price at $20.00. They went
up YESTERDAY 25% on this part. I also told them no thanks. I looked at
my bookshelf and spotted the Enco catalog. Called them and got a price
of $14.xx for the belt and about $5.00 shipping. Done deal, ordered two
so I wouldn't have to do this again.
I hear about how Jet tools are a lot like Delta. Maybe, but their parts
are getting the same also, and that is not a good thing.
Jamie Norwood............cooling down as I am writing this.
Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
> "George E. Cawthon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
>>The only way to know how much it costs to process orders is to divide the
>>total cost by the total number of orders.
>
>
> Very inaccurate. In my company, we can ship a single item that will cost
> maybe $50 to process and minute later ship a triler of floor loaded product
> that takes 3 people 90 minutes. Should I add the cost and divide by to to
> get my actual cost per order? If the same exact process has to be gone throu
> for each order, it will work, but if a $5000 order takes more time to
> process, pull, pack, ship, than a $20 order, the average would be scewed.
>
> In the case of the belt, they should have them to just drop in an envelope,
> put on a label and stamp and it is done. That is far less than gathering
> six items, packing them for a single shipment weiging and doing a UPS
> shipment. How about a truckload order that takes over and hour load on the
> trailer?
>
Ah, but I didn't say it was a useful number. One
would be a fool to just put all orders in a pile
and divide the cost by the number of orders. That
sounds almost like what they did for the belt.
It makes little sense to combine highly different
activities and charge the same for each activity.
Most local firms, for example, have an at store
price and a delivery cost. That makes sense and
lets the customer choose and if the store is
honest and charges the actual delivery cost, it
should make any difference to the store.
Separating handling charges from the actual cost
tends to be fraudulent anyway, since customers
often/usually look at the item cost, compare
companies, and then are shocked by the handling
and shipping costs. If the handling cost is
actually a part of the item cost, it should be
handled that way. A company that sell items for
delivery (mail order for example) shouldn't be
charging much more for delivery than the actual
cost of mail or freight; the handling charge
should be included in the selling price just like
other operating costs.
These are special micro v belts only 5mm wide, I checked all the usual
suspects, MSC, Grainger, bearing houses, no luck. Special type belts
for this lathe (and other machine tools), not a regular auto belt.
Log wrote:
> Goto an autoparts store and I am sure you can find a belt there to help you
> out or add a pully and use a longer one..
>
> -- Log
>
> Macgyverize it works for me :)
>
>
>
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>I just got off the phone with the Jet tools Customer service dept. I
>>needed a belt for my 9x20 metal lathe. Their price was $27.95 for a v
>>belt that weighs 1/4 oz (that is what a pencil weighs). OK I am stupid
>>enough to buy this POS lathe, I have to pony up for the parts. Then
>>they told me that the shipping was a flat rate of $19.95 for parts
>>costing over $20.00. That's almost $48.00 for a v belt! I got a
>>supervisor on the line who told me the same old "I don't make the rules,
>>I just live by them" and then offered to do a one time special deal just
>>for me since I was so upset of only $9.95 shipping. I told her to tell
>>the bean counting MBA's upstairs to quit ripping people off and trying
>>to back door profits by jacking the shipping costs. I told her I just
>>sent a part across the US that weighs 28 times what the belt does for
>>$3.85 USPS Priority mail. I told her forget it, and told her I will
>>never buy another Jet tool. I called Grizzly and the CSR told me the
>>price was $25.00 for the belt (the 9x20 lathes are all the same). I got
>>an email from them last week that quoted the price at $20.00. They went
>>up YESTERDAY 25% on this part. I also told them no thanks. I looked at
>>my bookshelf and spotted the Enco catalog. Called them and got a price
>>of $14.xx for the belt and about $5.00 shipping. Done deal, ordered two
>>so I wouldn't have to do this again.
>>
>>I hear about how Jet tools are a lot like Delta. Maybe, but their parts
>>are getting the same also, and that is not a good thing.
>>
>>Jamie Norwood............cooling down as I am writing this.
>>
>
>
>
Barry Lennox wrote:
> On Mon, 04 Apr 2005 10:09:07 -0400, "J. Clarke"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Barry Lennox wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 03 Apr 2005 20:47:30 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>"Barry Lennox" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Well, they should sack some of their useless staff and get their costs
>>>>> under control. Amazon and Barnes & Noble can give reasonable shipping
>>>>> costs so what exactly is Jet's problem?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Huge difference. Amazon, B&N are in the mail order business. Jet is
>>>>not,
>>>>and does not want to be. They want to sell through distributors. Order
>>>>the part from your local dealer.
>>>
>>> Those are arbitrary labels, and there is no huge difference.
>>>
>>> Amazon, B&N are NOT in the mail order business (maybe the Post Office
>>> is) They are in the business of offering something a customer wants in
>>> exchange for a fair price, just as Jet is (or should be)
>>
>>Actually, they are in the mail order business, or more precisely the
>>online order business if you want to split hairs about ordering via the
>>Internet
>>not being "mail order". By that token Sears isn't in the mail order
>>business and Sears _invented_ the mail order business. But perhaps you're
>>too young to be familiar with "mail order" that actually uses the mail.
>
> Whatever semantics or labels you use, they are still in the business
> of business, ie: offering something a customer wants in exchange for a
> fair price. That is a fundamental.
>
> Too young? Hardly! I see in my 1902 Sears catalogue Stanley planes
> are priced from 9c to 37c.
So you're 120 years old?
>>As far as Amazon goes, Amazon doesn't keep any stock, they pass the order
>>through to whoever does have the stock, just like many other online
>>resellers. Usually with Amazon it goes to Ingram, the major wholesaler of
>>books in the US, who then drop-ships to the customer. So they're using a
>>different business model from either Sears or Jet.
>>
>>> Most enlightened companies understand their real role is to offer
>>> whatever it takes to satisfy, and perhaps delight, customers and keep
>>> them coming back. They may well "want" to deal through distributors. I
>>> do *not* want to, and prefer to deal direct. My view is as valid as
>>> theirs. OTOH, if they don't want customers, then fine, get rid of them
>>> all, that will solve their annoying spares problems.
>>>
>>>>What makes you think they have useless staff?
>>>
>>> They don't seem to get the point above, in my experience, and that of
>>> the OP.
>>
>>The real issue seems to be that Jet hasn't figured out that the manner in
>>which they provide spart parts is part of their marketing effort and they
>>should do so in a manner that makes the customer feel that he wants to buy
>>more stuff from Jet. Many folks buy from Sears because Sears has parts
>>for 30 year old tools and appliances available on their Web site,
>>orderable with minimal effort and at a reasonable price.
>
> Exactly, so what's hard about copying the best bits of some others'
> "business model" ? IF they cared about customers, they could do it.
> That they choose not to, is their business, but illustrates how they
> see customers. or ex-customers to be more correct.
There's nothing "hard" about it, but you can't think of everything at once.
Try starting a business and see how many things _you_ don't do right.
>
> Barry Lennox
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
On Mon, 04 Apr 2005 10:29:19 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
>"Barry Lennox" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> Those are arbitrary labels, and there is no huge difference.
>>
>> Amazon, B&N are NOT in the mail order business (maybe the Post Office
>> is) They are in the business of offering something a customer wants in
>> exchange for a fair price, just as Jet is (or should be)
>
>The great thing about captialism in America is that the business gets to
>decide what distribution channels it wants to use.
It's the same in most of the world, and the great thing about
democracy is that I get to decide where to spend my dollars.
>> Most enlightened companies understand their real role is to offer
>> whatever it takes to satisfy, and perhaps delight, customers and keep
>> them coming back. They may well "want" to deal through distributors. I
>> do *not* want to, and prefer to deal direct.
>
>So did you buy your car directly from GM or did Henry Ford come to your
>house to help you pick a color? Yes, it gripes me to pay the destination
>charge on a car that I could easily pick up at the factory myself. Oh, them
>sumbitches need some enlightening.
Have done neither. I get them from other folk, then do them up.
> My view is as valid as
>> theirs. OTOH, if they don't want customers, then fine, get rid of them
>> all, that will solve their annoying spares problems.
>
>It may be your view, but it probably won't change things very much. You do
>get to vote with your dollars though, and can buy whatever brand you want
>from whatever sources it is available. For maximum efficiency, some choose
>to set up for direct sales, others do not as they typicaly don't have the
>volume of sales to justify the cost of doing so.
OK you win, I'm sure Jet's processes and systems will run a lot more
efficiently and economically without those annoying customers
demanding this and that. I'll oblige.
Actually, there is little to separate most of the biggies on price and
performance, so here's an opportunity for one company to really
differentiate itself from the pack. Offer same-day dispatch, minor
parts for free, and others at a modest cost without gouging on
shipping. If the tools are as reliable as they claim, it will hardly
cost them, and their customers will be delighted. Otherwise the sour
taste continues.
>My company has a minimum of $300 for stock items. Much more for special
>runs, usually about $100 with no setup charge. While it is not a consumer
>oriented business, it is not profitable do do less so we don't. We won't
>ship UPS or mail because it takes to much time and cost to much to pack the
>stuff for it. OUr choice. We lost two customemers when we implemented that.
Fair enough, your company, keep working on losing customers.
>>
>>>What makes you think they have useless staff?
>>
>> They don't seem to get the point above, in my experience, and that of
>> the OP.
>
>You can have an opinion. Useless to you, but not tot he distributors they
>serve well.
>Ed
Sounds like me and my opinion are worthless to JET, fair enough. In
the next 6 months, I'll be picking up a bit of equipment, so
after-sales service and policy will be considered.
Barry Lennox
.
>
>So did you buy your car directly from GM or did Henry Ford come to your
>house to help you pick a color? Yes, it gripes me to pay the destination
>charge on a car that I could easily pick up at the factory myself. Oh, them
>sumbitches need some enlightening.
>
I have purchased a few Pontiacs from one of the GM Zone offices
in the past BEFORE they stopped the practice.. Was a nightmare however
to register the 1st Car however... The State DMV was unsure how to
handle the " Certificate of Origin" That GMAC handed me.. it was a
learning experience to say the least....
I also purchased one of my Corvettes with Museum (Factory Delivery)
not only did I pay normal destination charges as if I picked it up
from the local dealer but I also plunked down 500 bucks ( extra for
the privilege top pick it up myself...).. It was worth it however
since I followed the car thru its final production and was allowed to
be the 1st to start it up and drive it off the assembly line myself...
Bob Griffiths
On Mon, 04 Apr 2005 10:09:07 -0400, "J. Clarke"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Barry Lennox wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 03 Apr 2005 20:47:30 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Barry Lennox" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Well, they should sack some of their useless staff and get their costs
>>>> under control. Amazon and Barnes & Noble can give reasonable shipping
>>>> costs so what exactly is Jet's problem?
>>>>
>>>
>>>Huge difference. Amazon, B&N are in the mail order business. Jet is not,
>>>and does not want to be. They want to sell through distributors. Order
>>>the part from your local dealer.
>>
>> Those are arbitrary labels, and there is no huge difference.
>>
>> Amazon, B&N are NOT in the mail order business (maybe the Post Office
>> is) They are in the business of offering something a customer wants in
>> exchange for a fair price, just as Jet is (or should be)
>
>Actually, they are in the mail order business, or more precisely the online
>order business if you want to split hairs about ordering via the Internet
>not being "mail order". By that token Sears isn't in the mail order
>business and Sears _invented_ the mail order business. But perhaps you're
>too young to be familiar with "mail order" that actually uses the mail.
Whatever semantics or labels you use, they are still in the business
of business, ie: offering something a customer wants in exchange for a
fair price. That is a fundamental.
Too young? Hardly! I see in my 1902 Sears catalogue Stanley planes
are priced from 9c to 37c.
>As far as Amazon goes, Amazon doesn't keep any stock, they pass the order
>through to whoever does have the stock, just like many other online
>resellers. Usually with Amazon it goes to Ingram, the major wholesaler of
>books in the US, who then drop-ships to the customer. So they're using a
>different business model from either Sears or Jet.
>
>> Most enlightened companies understand their real role is to offer
>> whatever it takes to satisfy, and perhaps delight, customers and keep
>> them coming back. They may well "want" to deal through distributors. I
>> do *not* want to, and prefer to deal direct. My view is as valid as
>> theirs. OTOH, if they don't want customers, then fine, get rid of them
>> all, that will solve their annoying spares problems.
>>
>>>What makes you think they have useless staff?
>>
>> They don't seem to get the point above, in my experience, and that of
>> the OP.
>
>The real issue seems to be that Jet hasn't figured out that the manner in
>which they provide spart parts is part of their marketing effort and they
>should do so in a manner that makes the customer feel that he wants to buy
>more stuff from Jet. Many folks buy from Sears because Sears has parts for
>30 year old tools and appliances available on their Web site, orderable
>with minimal effort and at a reasonable price.
Exactly, so what's hard about copying the best bits of some others'
"business model" ? IF they cared about customers, they could do it.
That they choose not to, is their business, but illustrates how they
see customers. or ex-customers to be more correct.
Barry Lennox
It's not who makes them, it's who sells them, they are hard to find. I
could have ordered one from a dealer and waited until he had enough Jet
parts to put in an order, but with the Internet, why bother. Jet
charges shipping based on the amount of the order, not on actual
shipping charge from UPS, or even by weight. I told her I could order a
%15.00 bowling ball (if they sold them) and it would be shipped to me
for half what the 1/4oz belt would cost, make that make sense to me, she
couldn't. She said they couldn't track USPS shipments, and it cost to
process the order. Blah, Blah, Blah. Just another ripoff.
Bob G. wrote:
> On Fri, 01 Apr 2005 23:05:34 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>
>>>*Somebody* must make a compatible belt - I doubt that JET and Grizzly make
>>>their own.
>>
>>I'd try vacuum cleaner and sewing machine repair shops. I wonder if you
>>could make one by splicing "O" ring material?
>>
>>To charge $20 for shipping a belt is pushing the S & H thing quite a bit.
>>
>
> ============================
> Good suggestion on vacuum cleaner stores... from experience they have
> a TON of belts ...
> But I would grab an old pair of my wives panty hose and attempt to
> make my own belt before I dropped close to 50 bucks for a belt and
> shipping....
>
> Bob Griffiths
MikeK wrote:
>
> On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 15:40:17 -0500, Duane Bozarth
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >MikeK wrote:
> >>
> >...
> >
> >> You had to go all the way to the president of Jets parent company to
> >> get a fix for a manufacturing error and you see no problem with that.
> >> You're too easy.
> >
> >My reading is he waited from '99 to sometime fairly recently to make
> >them aware of the problem and they still fixed it up at no charge...that
> >sounds pretty good to me, as well...
>
> Ok, IF that's the case, I'd give them a thumbs up also.
>
>
I stated explicitly it was past the 90 days, anyway, which seems like
that would be plenty of time to have found/identified/complained
initially...I'm inferring the other, granted from the way in which it
was written.
On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 15:40:17 -0500, Duane Bozarth
<[email protected]> wrote:
>MikeK wrote:
>>
>...
>
>> You had to go all the way to the president of Jets parent company to
>> get a fix for a manufacturing error and you see no problem with that.
>> You're too easy.
>
>My reading is he waited from '99 to sometime fairly recently to make
>them aware of the problem and they still fixed it up at no charge...that
>sounds pretty good to me, as well...
Ok, IF that's the case, I'd give them a thumbs up also.
M
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> It's not who makes them, it's who sells them, they are hard to find. I
> could have ordered one from a dealer and waited until he had enough Jet
> parts to put in an order, but with the Internet, why bother. Jet charges
> shipping based on the amount of the order, not on actual shipping charge
> from UPS, or even by weight. I told her I could order a %15.00 bowling
> ball (if they sold them) and it would be shipped to me for half what the
> 1/4oz belt would cost, make that make sense to me, she couldn't. She said
> they couldn't track USPS shipments, and it cost to process the order.
> Blah, Blah, Blah. Just another ripoff.
>
>
Not to defend Jet, but I worked for a large wholesale house and their cost
to process an order was $50. Jet probably would lose money on your belt
purchase.
Greg
MikeK <[email protected]> wrote:
>On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 15:40:17 -0500, Duane Bozarth
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>MikeK wrote:
>>>
>>...
>>
>>> You had to go all the way to the president of Jets parent company to
>>> get a fix for a manufacturing error and you see no problem with that.
>>> You're too easy.
>>
>>My reading is he waited from '99 to sometime fairly recently to make
>>them aware of the problem and they still fixed it up at no charge...that
>>sounds pretty good to me, as well...
>
>Ok, IF that's the case, I'd give them a thumbs up also.
That's what happened. I had wondered about a lack of power on resawing, even
posting some questions here. I had seen the 1/2 HP rating on the motor, but
thought it was probably a mis-print. Then I saw the amperage rating and a light
went on. I did notify them as soon as I realized there was a manufacturing
problem. -- Doug
"USENET READER" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> $50 bucks to process an order? Who did they have working this place - a
> buncha snails?
>
>
Salesman places the order, enters into the computer. Order is picked,
shipped or loaded on one of their many delivery trucks. Driver drops off the
product, gets packing list signed. An order entry clerk confirms all was
shipped, and corrects the bill and back orders any products not shipped.
Another body prepares and sends out a bill, then at months end a statement.
I probably have missed a step or two, including the person that placed the
stock order to stock the warehouse shelve, the person that received the
product into the warehouse and put it on the shelve.
Do the math and every step adds a few seconds to several minutes to the
process. Before you know it you have an hour or more spent just doing work
caused from processing an order. Small orders are quick, large orders take
more time.
All the steps are caused one way or another from a customer's order.
Greg
"George E. Cawthon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>>
>>
>
> So? If they get $10 an hour (wages, benefits, etc.), it cost the company
> $10, not $20. I worked where the estimated cost of letter was calculated
> as $10, and processing a check (for jury duty) cost the company way more
> than the check was worth.
>
>
A $10 per hour employee does not cost the company $10 per hour, probably
closer to
$15, maybe more.
You also forgot the cost of everything else, cost of the warehouse, heat,
lights, insurance....
It all goes into the cost of doing business.
Greg
"George E. Cawthon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> >>
>>
>
> Want to try again. I quote from my message "....$10 an hour (wages,
> benefits, etc.)"
>
>
Missed that! But then no one at that company was getting less than $10 per
hour, plus benny's.
Greg
On Fri, 1 Apr 2005 18:37:59 -0600, "Greg O" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
><[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> It's not who makes them, it's who sells them, they are hard to find. I
>> could have ordered one from a dealer and waited until he had enough Jet
>> parts to put in an order, but with the Internet, why bother. Jet charges
>> shipping based on the amount of the order, not on actual shipping charge
>> from UPS, or even by weight. I told her I could order a %15.00 bowling
>> ball (if they sold them) and it would be shipped to me for half what the
>> 1/4oz belt would cost, make that make sense to me, she couldn't. She said
>> they couldn't track USPS shipments, and it cost to process the order.
>> Blah, Blah, Blah. Just another ripoff.
>>
>>
>
>Not to defend Jet, but I worked for a large wholesale house and their cost
>to process an order was $50. Jet probably would lose money on your belt
>purchase.
Well, they should sack some of their useless staff and get their costs
under control. Amazon and Barnes & Noble can give reasonable shipping
costs so what exactly is Jet's problem?
I suspect the original belt is made by Gates. Give them a call and
find a distributor that does not gouge on price and shipping.
Barry Lennox
On Sat, 02 Apr 2005 01:10:46 GMT, Lobby Dosser
<[email protected]> wrote:
>"Greg O" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>
>> Not to defend Jet, but I worked for a large wholesale house and their
>> cost to process an order was $50. Jet probably would lose money on
>> your belt purchase.
>> Greg
>>
>>
>>
>
>They just did.
===================
LOL.... As a retired retailer....you can sometimes MAKE money by not
selling something...
Why should the sell, pick,invoice,pack and ship
an item.... if they loose money.... I got a feeling they had better
institute some cost controls...
Bob Griffiths
"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
> wrote:
>>These are special micro v belts only 5mm wide, I checked all the usual
>>suspects, MSC, Grainger, bearing houses, no luck. Special type belts
>>for this lathe (and other machine tools), not a regular auto belt.
>
> *Somebody* must make a compatible belt - I doubt that JET and Grizzly make
> their own.
I'd try vacuum cleaner and sewing machine repair shops. I wonder if you
could make one by splicing "O" ring material?
To charge $20 for shipping a belt is pushing the S & H thing quite a bit.
Roy Smith <[email protected]> wrote:
>It works in the other direction too. If I call up a company and say I need
>a new left-handed frobnitz, and the person I talk to on the phone says, "Aw
>heck, that's not worth the paperwork to bill you for, just give me your
>address and I'll send you one, no charge", they've just earned a customer
>for life.
Two stories:
I was trying to get my new digital TV setup with an outdoor antenna. This
turned out to be hard. I think I'm in some kind of signal hole. Anyway, I
bought a Winegard amplifier and was having trouble getting power to it. I
contacted Winegard support via email and got a prompt, intelligent reply. The
reply included a recommendation for a power regulated diplexer. I searched the
net looking for one and couldn't find it. I sent another email to support
asking where I could get one. The prompt reply was "I'll send you one". No
charge. I like Winegard.
I've posted here before about my Jet 18" bandsaw lacking power that I bought in
1999. It turns out they had installed a 1/2 HP motor instead of the 1 1/2 HP
motor that is spec'ed. A call to Jet customer service got a reply to the effect
of "You've got 90 days to discover that sort of problem". I asked to speak to a
supervisor and got the same result. I wrote a nice letter to the president of
WMH Tool Group, which owns Jet. I got a prompt email from his admin saying that
it had been referred to the head of the Jet division. I got a phone call and
email from him saying a new motor was on the way. No charge. The bandsaw runs
great. I like Jet.
-- Doug
MikeK wrote:
>
...
> You had to go all the way to the president of Jets parent company to
> get a fix for a manufacturing error and you see no problem with that.
> You're too easy.
My reading is he waited from '99 to sometime fairly recently to make
them aware of the problem and they still fixed it up at no charge...that
sounds pretty good to me, as well...
>
>Keep in mind also that Jet does not as a rule sell direct.. They prefer you
>to order from the dealer. If there is no close dealer to service the tool
>then this would be more of a courtesy convenience to sell to him directly.
>The dealer can place a stock order that will have much a smaller freight
>charge if any due to the volume.
>
When did Jet establish a dealer network..? Just curious...the only
Jet tool I own ( My Tablesaw) was ordered direct from them in 1989 or
90...
AT the time I had never seen any Jet equiptment in any of the local
dealers that I visited...
Bob Griffiths
"Bob G." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> >
>>Keep in mind also that Jet does not as a rule sell direct.. They prefer
>>you
>>to order from the dealer. If there is no close dealer to service the tool
>>then this would be more of a courtesy convenience to sell to him directly.
>>The dealer can place a stock order that will have much a smaller freight
>>charge if any due to the volume.
>>
> When did Jet establish a dealer network..? Just curious...the only
> Jet tool I own ( My Tablesaw) was ordered direct from them in 1989 or
> 90...
> AT the time I had never seen any Jet equiptment in any of the local
> dealers that I visited...
I'm not sure when that all came about. More than 9 years ago though. My
local Jet dealer went in to business about 9 years ago and the big stuff was
strictly Jet. IIRC the Jet web site indicates that you cannot buy equipment
direct and that you should contact a local dealer.
On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 17:39:16 GMT, Douglas Johnson
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Roy Smith <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>It works in the other direction too. If I call up a company and say I need
>>a new left-handed frobnitz, and the person I talk to on the phone says, "Aw
>>heck, that's not worth the paperwork to bill you for, just give me your
>>address and I'll send you one, no charge", they've just earned a customer
>>for life.
>
>Two stories:
>
>I was trying to get my new digital TV setup with an outdoor antenna. This
>turned out to be hard. I think I'm in some kind of signal hole. Anyway, I
>bought a Winegard amplifier and was having trouble getting power to it. I
>contacted Winegard support via email and got a prompt, intelligent reply. The
>reply included a recommendation for a power regulated diplexer. I searched the
>net looking for one and couldn't find it. I sent another email to support
>asking where I could get one. The prompt reply was "I'll send you one". No
>charge. I like Winegard.
>
>I've posted here before about my Jet 18" bandsaw lacking power that I bought in
>1999. It turns out they had installed a 1/2 HP motor instead of the 1 1/2 HP
>motor that is spec'ed. A call to Jet customer service got a reply to the effect
>of "You've got 90 days to discover that sort of problem". I asked to speak to a
>supervisor and got the same result. I wrote a nice letter to the president of
>WMH Tool Group, which owns Jet. I got a prompt email from his admin saying that
>it had been referred to the head of the Jet division. I got a phone call and
>email from him saying a new motor was on the way. No charge. The bandsaw runs
>great. I like Jet.
>
>-- Doug
You had to go all the way to the president of Jets parent company to
get a fix for a manufacturing error and you see no problem with that.
You're too easy.
M
"Bob G." <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>
> When did Jet establish a dealer network..? Just curious...the only
> Jet tool I own ( My Tablesaw) was ordered direct from them in 1989 or
> 90...
> AT the time I had never seen any Jet equiptment in any of the local
> dealers that I visited...
>
> Bob Griffiths
Woodcraft, Amazon, Coastal Tools all carry Jet. I'm sure others do also.
"Barry Lennox" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> Those are arbitrary labels, and there is no huge difference.
>
> Amazon, B&N are NOT in the mail order business (maybe the Post Office
> is) They are in the business of offering something a customer wants in
> exchange for a fair price, just as Jet is (or should be)
The great thing about captialism in America is that the business gets to
decide what distribution channels it wants to use.
>
> Most enlightened companies understand their real role is to offer
> whatever it takes to satisfy, and perhaps delight, customers and keep
> them coming back. They may well "want" to deal through distributors. I
> do *not* want to, and prefer to deal direct.
So did you buy your car directly from GM or did Henry Ford come to your
house to help you pick a color? Yes, it gripes me to pay the destination
charge on a car that I could easily pick up at the factory myself. Oh, them
sumbitches need some enlightening.
My view is as valid as
> theirs. OTOH, if they don't want customers, then fine, get rid of them
> all, that will solve their annoying spares problems.
It may be your view, but it probably won't change things very much. You do
get to vote with your dollars though, and can buy whatever brand you want
from whatever sources it is available. For maximum efficiency, some choose
to set up for direct sales, others do not as they typicaly don't have the
volume of sales to justify the cost of doing so.
My company has a minimum of $300 for stock items. Much more for special
runs, usually about $100 with no setup charge. While it is not a consumer
oriented business, it is not profitable do do less so we don't. We won't
ship UPS or mail because it takes to much time and cost to much to pack the
stuff for it. OUr choice. We lost two customemers when we implemented that.
>
>>What makes you think they have useless staff?
>
> They don't seem to get the point above, in my experience, and that of
> the OP.
You can have an opinion. Useless to you, but not tot he distributors they
serve well.
Ed
"Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Ba r r y" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>
>> Why does everyone always use OLD panty hose, toothbrushes, wiper
>> blades, etc... when new ones only cost a few bucks?
>>
>> Barry
>
> Old pantyhose have character and a nice patina.
If they've got patina, penicillin should clear that right up.
"Ba r r y" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Fri, 01 Apr 2005 18:46:11 -0500, Bob G.
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > But I would grab an old pair of my wives panty hose and attempt to
> >make my own belt before I dropped close to 50 bucks for a belt and
> >shipping....
>
> You could buy a new and unused pair and still save a bunch of money.
> <G>
>
> Why does everyone always use OLD panty hose, toothbrushes, wiper
> blades, etc... when new ones only cost a few bucks?
>
They smell better?
"George E. Cawthon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> >
> Umm, lots of people use to do that if they had the
> time, especially since they could save about $1000
> which was nearly 1/4 years salary. But I think
> the dealer franchises put a stop to that long ago.
> Otoh, my neighbor last fall flew half way across
> the U.S. and drove his new motorhome back, saving
> $10,000 over the sales price of a local dealer.
> Might not be much for high living folk, but for
> over 50 percent of the working people it is 3
> months salary. Not bad for a 4 day trip.
Not bad, but I'm sure he wasn't happy with the close attention given these
days to holders of one-way tickets.
On Sat, 02 Apr 2005 04:52:37 GMT, USENET READER
<[email protected]> wrote:
>$50 bucks to process an order? Who did they have working this place - a
>buncha snails?
>
>Now I know that many other costs are factored in here - Social Security,
>Workman's Comp, all taxes (federal, state, property taxes, etc.), but
>that sounds ridiculous. How long a period of time did they figure it
>took to process that order?
>
>
>Greg O wrote:
======================
Start a business and you will see... LOL
Even the ground that the building sits on costs a company....
Bob G.
[email protected] writes:
>It's not who makes them, it's who sells them, they are hard to find. I
>could have ordered one from a dealer and waited until he had enough Jet
>parts to put in an order, but with the Internet, why bother. Jet
>charges shipping based on the amount of the order, not on actual
>shipping charge from UPS, or even by weight. I told her I could order a
> %15.00 bowling ball (if they sold them) and it would be shipped to me
>for half what the 1/4oz belt would cost, make that make sense to me, she
>couldn't. She said they couldn't track USPS shipments, and it cost to
>process the order. Blah, Blah, Blah. Just another ripoff.
So they have to pay a salary to the poor lady you abused on the phone.
They have to pay a salary to the person who picks the order, the one
who packs the order, packing materials cost, inventory depreciation,
and the actual shipping costs. The margin on that belt, while
perhaps significant (a GPM of 30-40% probably), is peanuts when compared
to the salaries of all the folks doing the S+H. TANSTAAFL.
scott
Bob G. wrote:
>>>Why does everyone always use OLD panty hose, toothbrushes, wiper
>>>blades, etc... when new ones only cost a few bucks?
>>>
>
>
> Just last week I replaced the wiper blades on my wives van (I very
> rarely drive it)...and yesterday she walked in to my shop and
> exciteltly..and very proud of herself .. told me she just had NEW
> blades installed...
>
> I kept my mouth shut...
>
> BUT I did wonder why the kid who actually replaced the blades did not
> notice they were brand new..never used ...never even saw any rain...
> rubber was still shinny... lol
>
> Bob G
>
>
Ah, lack of communication!
OTOH, "wives van?" Exactly how many wives do you
have?
"Bob G." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> >>
> >> Why does everyone always use OLD panty hose, toothbrushes, wiper
> >> blades, etc... when new ones only cost a few bucks?
> >>
>
> Just last week I replaced the wiper blades on my wives van (I very
You put all your wives in one van?!
- Owen -
"Barry Lennox" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> Well, they should sack some of their useless staff and get their costs
> under control. Amazon and Barnes & Noble can give reasonable shipping
> costs so what exactly is Jet's problem?
>
Huge difference. Amazon, B&N are in the mail order business. Jet is not,
and does not want to be. They want to sell through distributors. Order the
part from your local dealer.
What makes you think they have useless staff?
--
Ed
http://pages.cthome.net/edhome/
"Bob G." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> BUT I did wonder why the kid who actually replaced the blades did not
> notice they were brand new..never used ...never even saw any rain...
> rubber was still shinny... lol
I guessing because she took the van to a quick lube center. Those places
would try to sell you new hub caps if they stocked them. For the most part
the people that work in those places know ABSOLUTELY nothing about
automobiles other than replacing the parts that they stock.
"Lobby Dosser" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:wUr3e.377$Q26.324@trnddc05...
> "Greg O" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>
> Profits are caused by repeat business and word of mouth.
LOL.. That reminds me of the infomercial with Dan Ackroid on SNL. He
answers the age old question of how they could afford to sell the BassOMatic
below cost. The answer, High VOLUME Sales.
Roy Smith wrote:
> It works in the other direction too. If I call up a company and say I need
> a new left-handed frobnitz, and the person I talk to on the phone says, "Aw
> heck, that's not worth the paperwork to bill you for, just give me your
> address and I'll send you one, no charge", they've just earned a customer
> for life.
>
> There's a couple of sayings:
>
> 1) It's a lot harder to get a new customer than to keep an existing one
> happy.
>
> 2) It's a lot harder to get a old customer that you've pissed off once to
> come back again than it is to get a new one.
Exactly!
John Deere (and every other manufacturer) gets an hefty over the counter
price for the shear pins used on their snow throwers. Something like
$2.95 each. Needed a couple, including spares, and went to the
dealership I'd bought it from (to the tune of $1,600) and they whacked
me full price. Oh well.
Two years ago I needed more and happened to be in the next county over
when I remembered I wanted to pick up some more as spares with winter
coming on. Guy at the counter quoted me the same price but when he came
out of the back, said "I know you said two but these damn things always
go out at the worst times. There's six in the bag. That'll be $3.14
total."
Guess where my next parts, service and equipment purchase will be made.
"Greg O" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>
>>
>
> Not to defend Jet, but I worked for a large wholesale house and their cost
> to process an order was $50. Jet probably would lose money on your belt
> purchase.
> Greg
I you set up a small parts department properly, you can handle small orders
efficiently. Not free, but less than $50. If this is a common part for
replacement, they can be put into mailing envelopes in a bin ready to go.
Slap a label, affix the postage, and off it goes.
To operate a business it must make a profit in order to satisfy customers,
but if you go too far and lose sales, the losses are greater than the gains.
The OP will never buy a Jet tool so the profit on a lost sale of a bandsaw,
DC, whatever, far exceeds the loss on the belt sale.
FWIW, the minimum order for my company is $300.
George wrote:
>
> Not bad, but I'm sure he wasn't happy with the close attention given these
> days to holders of one-way tickets.
>
>
What attention? Southwest has always booked me with one-way tickets, I
don't know if they even sell real round trips. I buy one-ways all the
time on other carriers. I've never noticed any extra attention from
anyone, from the salesperson to the TSA agents, because I had a one way.
In fact the TSA people don't usually even LOOK at tickets!
I've been known to book a one way to destination "A", drive to
destination "B", and book my way home from "B". I frequently don't even
know what day I'm returning.
Round trips are cheaper. Terrorists wishing to save money will buy
round trip tickets. <G>
Barry
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
says...
> Unquestionably Confused <[email protected]> wrote:
> > The crux of the problem and Jamie's problem is that if the customer
> > PERCEIVES that they are being hosed, they will take their business
> > elsewhere. Perception is, in the real world, reality.
>
> It works in the other direction too. If I call up a company and say I need
> a new left-handed frobnitz, and the person I talk to on the phone says, "Aw
> heck, that's not worth the paperwork to bill you for, just give me your
> address and I'll send you one, no charge", they've just earned a customer
> for life.
>
> There's a couple of sayings:
>
> 1) It's a lot harder to get a new customer than to keep an existing one
> happy.
>
> 2) It's a lot harder to get a old customer that you've pissed off once to
> come back again than it is to get a new one.
That pretty much exactly describes my experience with Jet.
I had two minor problems with my table saw. 1) There is a small
hex bolt that's part of the motor support assembly. It screws into
the housing of part of the motor bracket and runs through a groove in
a rod to keep it from slipping out. (The motor mount pivots on the
rod under force of gravity to keep tension on the belt.) Anyway,
the head sheared off the bolt when I screwed it in. Since the shank
of the bolt was fully screwed into the hole, it was holding the rod
in place and so I didn't worry about it at the time. (Figured I could
buy a new bolt anywhere for a few cents if I ever needed to disassemble
it.)
2) There was a crack in the fence cursor (XACTA fence, I think it is
called, looks like a Beisemeyer fence.) The crack was through one of
the slotted holes used to fine-tune the cursor setting, and it was
cracked when I unpacked it. It worked fine, and I was able to adjust
it and screw it down tight without breaking it completely.
About a year later, the cursor broke completely, so I called up Jet
to ask about getting a replacement. The lady who answered the phone
was very nice and helpful, knew exactly what I was looking for, etc,
and then said "anything else?", so I mentioned the broken bolt.
She said fine, and asked for shipping information and such. I said
"how am I going to pay for this, do you need a credit card or will
you bill me", and she said "no charge." Got the parts a couple of
days later.
Now you could argue that either or both parts were manufacturing
defects, or that they were both my fault (maybe I over tightened
the bolt, or maybe it was cracked, maybe I stepped on the cursor
or dropped something heavy on it while I was unpacking it), and it
was well over a year after I bought the saw, and well out of
warranty, but they replaced both at no charge and no questions
asked and were very pleasant about it.
Too bad the OP wasn't treated the same way. I hope this doesn't
reflect a change of policy or management at Jet.
--
John
Greg O wrote:
> "George E. Cawthon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>Want to try again. I quote from my message "....$10 an hour (wages,
>>benefits, etc.)"
>>
>>
>
>
> Missed that! But then no one at that company was getting less than $10 per
> hour, plus benny's.
> Greg
>
>
That's all right, we all miss stuff. But the $10
was just an example. If the company cost is $15
or $20 they shouldn't be charging more for
handling unless they don't care about good will.
"Lobby Dosser" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>
>
> Profits are caused by repeat business and word of mouth.
Profits are caused by selling at a higher amount than your costs.
"George E. Cawthon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> The only way to know how much it costs to process orders is to divide the
> total cost by the total number of orders.
Very inaccurate. In my company, we can ship a single item that will cost
maybe $50 to process and minute later ship a triler of floor loaded product
that takes 3 people 90 minutes. Should I add the cost and divide by to to
get my actual cost per order? If the same exact process has to be gone throu
for each order, it will work, but if a $5000 order takes more time to
process, pull, pack, ship, than a $20 order, the average would be scewed.
In the case of the belt, they should have them to just drop in an envelope,
put on a label and stamp and it is done. That is far less than gathering
six items, packing them for a single shipment weiging and doing a UPS
shipment. How about a truckload order that takes over and hour load on the
trailer?
>
> If a company is just breaking even on mailing and handling costs, and it
> costs $20 for a simple product always (or should be always) in stock, then
> the company is doing something wrong.
Agreed
Goto an autoparts store and I am sure you can find a belt there to help you
out or add a pully and use a longer one..
-- Log
Macgyverize it works for me :)
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I just got off the phone with the Jet tools Customer service dept. I
> needed a belt for my 9x20 metal lathe. Their price was $27.95 for a v
> belt that weighs 1/4 oz (that is what a pencil weighs). OK I am stupid
> enough to buy this POS lathe, I have to pony up for the parts. Then
> they told me that the shipping was a flat rate of $19.95 for parts
> costing over $20.00. That's almost $48.00 for a v belt! I got a
> supervisor on the line who told me the same old "I don't make the rules,
> I just live by them" and then offered to do a one time special deal just
> for me since I was so upset of only $9.95 shipping. I told her to tell
> the bean counting MBA's upstairs to quit ripping people off and trying
> to back door profits by jacking the shipping costs. I told her I just
> sent a part across the US that weighs 28 times what the belt does for
> $3.85 USPS Priority mail. I told her forget it, and told her I will
> never buy another Jet tool. I called Grizzly and the CSR told me the
> price was $25.00 for the belt (the 9x20 lathes are all the same). I got
> an email from them last week that quoted the price at $20.00. They went
> up YESTERDAY 25% on this part. I also told them no thanks. I looked at
> my bookshelf and spotted the Enco catalog. Called them and got a price
> of $14.xx for the belt and about $5.00 shipping. Done deal, ordered two
> so I wouldn't have to do this again.
>
> I hear about how Jet tools are a lot like Delta. Maybe, but their parts
> are getting the same also, and that is not a good thing.
>
> Jamie Norwood............cooling down as I am writing this.
>
On Sat, 02 Apr 2005 13:01:34 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>"Lobby Dosser" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
>> Profits are caused by repeat business and word of mouth.
>
>Profits are caused by selling at a higher amount than your costs.
Amen. But the "lose a little on each sale, and make it up in volume"
myth is *very* appealing to some.
Lee
Greg O wrote:
> "George E. Cawthon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>>
>>So? If they get $10 an hour (wages, benefits, etc.), it cost the company
>>$10, not $20. I worked where the estimated cost of letter was calculated
>>as $10, and processing a check (for jury duty) cost the company way more
>>than the check was worth.
>>
>>
>
>
> A $10 per hour employee does not cost the company $10 per hour, probably
> closer to
> $15, maybe more.
> You also forgot the cost of everything else, cost of the warehouse, heat,
> lights, insurance....
> It all goes into the cost of doing business.
> Greg
>
>
Want to try again. I quote from my message
"....$10 an hour (wages, benefits, etc.)"
Doesn't make any difference? the cost of another
letter, another order, another anything often is
nothing because the employee(s) is often
underutilized. In fact, they may only be doing
50% of full utilization, especially if business is
somewhat cyclical.
Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
> "Barry Lennox" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
>>Those are arbitrary labels, and there is no huge difference.
>>
>>Amazon, B&N are NOT in the mail order business (maybe the Post Office
>>is) They are in the business of offering something a customer wants in
>>exchange for a fair price, just as Jet is (or should be)
>
>
> The great thing about captialism in America is that the business gets to
> decide what distribution channels it wants to use.
>
>
>>Most enlightened companies understand their real role is to offer
>>whatever it takes to satisfy, and perhaps delight, customers and keep
>>them coming back. They may well "want" to deal through distributors. I
>>do *not* want to, and prefer to deal direct.
>
>
> So did you buy your car directly from GM or did Henry Ford come to your
> house to help you pick a color? Yes, it gripes me to pay the destination
> charge on a car that I could easily pick up at the factory myself. Oh, them
> sumbitches need some enlightening.
>
Umm, lots of people use to do that if they had the
time, especially since they could save about $1000
which was nearly 1/4 years salary. But I think
the dealer franchises put a stop to that long ago.
Otoh, my neighbor last fall flew half way across
the U.S. and drove his new motorhome back, saving
$10,000 over the sales price of a local dealer.
Might not be much for high living folk, but for
over 50 percent of the working people it is 3
months salary. Not bad for a 4 day trip.
Leon wrote:
>>
>>Profits are caused by repeat business and word of mouth.
>
>
>
> LOL.. That reminds me of the infomercial with Dan Ackroid on SNL. He
> answers the age old question of how they could afford to sell the BassOMatic
> below cost. The answer, High VOLUME Sales.
And we all know how well that worked out. Have any of you tried to pick
up a replacement Bassomatic? Mine died two years ago when my daughter
mistakenly tried to puree a salmon. Bad move...
All this business planning and cost accounting is enough to make a
Wharton graduate's head spin.
The crux of the problem and Jamie's problem is that if the customer
PERCEIVES that they are being hosed, they will take their business
elsewhere. Perception is, in the real world, reality.
Yeah, they could toss that belt in a USPS Priority mail pack and send it
off to Jamie and if they'd charged him $6.50 shipping AND HANDLING, they
likely would not have heard a peep. However, to be so inflexible and
demand $20 for something that small is their downfall. Jeez, what would
they have done if he'd needed, gasp!, a shear pin or a washer?
Common sense isn't!
Unquestionably Confused <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> Roy Smith wrote:
>> It works in the other direction too. If I call up a company and say
>> I need a new left-handed frobnitz, and the person I talk to on the
>> phone says, "Aw heck, that's not worth the paperwork to bill you for,
>> just give me your address and I'll send you one, no charge", they've
>> just earned a customer for life.
>>
>> There's a couple of sayings:
>>
>> 1) It's a lot harder to get a new customer than to keep an existing
>> one happy.
>>
>> 2) It's a lot harder to get a old customer that you've pissed off
>> once to come back again than it is to get a new one.
>
> Exactly!
>
> John Deere (and every other manufacturer) gets an hefty over the
> counter price for the shear pins used on their snow throwers.
> Something like $2.95 each. Needed a couple, including spares, and
> went to the dealership I'd bought it from (to the tune of $1,600) and
> they whacked me full price. Oh well.
>
> Two years ago I needed more and happened to be in the next county over
> when I remembered I wanted to pick up some more as spares with winter
> coming on. Guy at the counter quoted me the same price but when he
> came out of the back, said "I know you said two but these damn things
> always go out at the worst times. There's six in the bag. That'll be
> $3.14 total."
>
> Guess where my next parts, service and equipment purchase will be
> made.
>
The service department at the dealer where I had purchased my last
pickup truck had earned my disdain in a couple of ways, but the daytime
running lamps, which needed frequent replacement, were no longer
available from the aftermarket parts house. When I stopped by the
dealer, reluctantly, to buy some, the parts guy pulled up my computer
record, went to the back, and came back with a double handful of the
replacement bulbs. Didn't want to bother with any paperwork. I just
_may_ buy another truck there some day.
Patriarch
Gates.
"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
wrote:
> >These are special micro v belts only 5mm wide, I checked all the usual
> >suspects, MSC, Grainger, bearing houses, no luck. Special type belts
> >for this lathe (and other machine tools), not a regular auto belt.
>
> *Somebody* must make a compatible belt - I doubt that JET and Grizzly make
> their own.
>
> --
> Regards,
> Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
>
> Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
> And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?
On Fri, 01 Apr 2005 18:46:11 -0500, Bob G.
<[email protected]> wrote:
> But I would grab an old pair of my wives panty hose and attempt to
>make my own belt before I dropped close to 50 bucks for a belt and
>shipping....
You could buy a new and unused pair and still save a bunch of money.
<G>
Why does everyone always use OLD panty hose, toothbrushes, wiper
blades, etc... when new ones only cost a few bucks?
Barry
On Fri, 01 Apr 2005 15:04:51 -0600, [email protected] wrote:
>I just got off the phone with the Jet tools Customer service dept. I
>needed a belt for my 9x20 metal lathe. Their price was $27.95 for a v
>belt that weighs 1/4 oz (that is what a pencil weighs). OK I am stupid
>enough to buy this POS lathe, I have to pony up for the parts. Then
>they told me that the shipping was a flat rate of $19.95 for parts
>costing over $20.00. That's almost $48.00 for a v belt!
Can you just measure it and buy it from a local hardware or industrial
supplier?
You could also try McMaster or Grainger if you can't get it locally.
Barry
check with www.froogle.com next time and see what you find.
"Jim & Sharon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> try a google search you would be amazed at what you will find
> experiment with different words in your search, for example length of
> belt, size,type what it is for, etc etc etc.
>
>
>
>
This is why you need a good machinery dealer.
Skarie in Baltimroe has shielded me on more than one occassion from a
manufacturer (including Jet - burned up a motor under warranty).
Mark
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I just got off the phone with the Jet tools Customer service dept. I
> needed a belt for my 9x20 metal lathe. Their price was $27.95 for a v
> belt that weighs 1/4 oz (that is what a pencil weighs). OK I am stupid
> enough to buy this POS lathe, I have to pony up for the parts. Then
> they told me that the shipping was a flat rate of $19.95 for parts
> costing over $20.00. That's almost $48.00 for a v belt! I got a
> supervisor on the line who told me the same old "I don't make the rules,
> I just live by them" and then offered to do a one time special deal just
> for me since I was so upset of only $9.95 shipping. I told her to tell
> the bean counting MBA's upstairs to quit ripping people off and trying
> to back door profits by jacking the shipping costs. I told her I just
> sent a part across the US that weighs 28 times what the belt does for
> $3.85 USPS Priority mail. I told her forget it, and told her I will
> never buy another Jet tool. I called Grizzly and the CSR told me the
> price was $25.00 for the belt (the 9x20 lathes are all the same). I got
> an email from them last week that quoted the price at $20.00. They went
> up YESTERDAY 25% on this part. I also told them no thanks. I looked at
> my bookshelf and spotted the Enco catalog. Called them and got a price
> of $14.xx for the belt and about $5.00 shipping. Done deal, ordered two
> so I wouldn't have to do this again.
>
> I hear about how Jet tools are a lot like Delta. Maybe, but their parts
> are getting the same also, and that is not a good thing.
>
> Jamie Norwood............cooling down as I am writing this.
>
Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
>
> "George E. Cawthon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
>> A company that sell items for delivery (mail order for example)
>> shouldn't
>> be charging much more for delivery than the actual cost of mail or
>> freight; the handling charge should be included in the selling price just
>> like other operating costs.
>
> If you sell strictly mail-order, you can include the handling costs as
> part
> of the price. If you sell both retail and mail-order, the handling cost
> will be different for each and will vary according to order size.
>
> The problem with including handling charges in the price is competition.
> No
> one want to be first to do it. I've seen a few TV infomercials where they
> sell you some junk for $19.99 and you get a second one free, just pay
> separate shipping and handling charges. Now that is pure scam as they
> know ahead they will be giving you two and it is no more time to pull two
> from the bin as it is to pull one.
That depends on the method they're using. If they have all the product
warehoused at FedEx then FedEx may have it prepackaged for example
(warehousing of products that will be shipped via FedEx is a service FedEx
offers).
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Barry Lennox wrote:
> On Sun, 03 Apr 2005 20:47:30 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Barry Lennox" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>
>>>
>>> Well, they should sack some of their useless staff and get their costs
>>> under control. Amazon and Barnes & Noble can give reasonable shipping
>>> costs so what exactly is Jet's problem?
>>>
>>
>>Huge difference. Amazon, B&N are in the mail order business. Jet is not,
>>and does not want to be. They want to sell through distributors. Order
>>the part from your local dealer.
>
> Those are arbitrary labels, and there is no huge difference.
>
> Amazon, B&N are NOT in the mail order business (maybe the Post Office
> is) They are in the business of offering something a customer wants in
> exchange for a fair price, just as Jet is (or should be)
Actually, they are in the mail order business, or more precisely the online
order business if you want to split hairs about ordering via the Internet
not being "mail order". By that token Sears isn't in the mail order
business and Sears _invented_ the mail order business. But perhaps you're
too young to be familiar with "mail order" that actually uses the mail.
As far as Amazon goes, Amazon doesn't keep any stock, they pass the order
through to whoever does have the stock, just like many other online
resellers. Usually with Amazon it goes to Ingram, the major wholesaler of
books in the US, who then drop-ships to the customer. So they're using a
different business model from either Sears or Jet.
> Most enlightened companies understand their real role is to offer
> whatever it takes to satisfy, and perhaps delight, customers and keep
> them coming back. They may well "want" to deal through distributors. I
> do *not* want to, and prefer to deal direct. My view is as valid as
> theirs. OTOH, if they don't want customers, then fine, get rid of them
> all, that will solve their annoying spares problems.
>
>>What makes you think they have useless staff?
>
> They don't seem to get the point above, in my experience, and that of
> the OP.
The real issue seems to be that Jet hasn't figured out that the manner in
which they provide spart parts is part of their marketing effort and they
should do so in a manner that makes the customer feel that he wants to buy
more stuff from Jet. Many folks buy from Sears because Sears has parts for
30 year old tools and appliances available on their Web site, orderable
with minimal effort and at a reasonable price.
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
On Fri, 01 Apr 2005 23:05:34 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
>> *Somebody* must make a compatible belt - I doubt that JET and Grizzly make
>> their own.
>
>I'd try vacuum cleaner and sewing machine repair shops. I wonder if you
>could make one by splicing "O" ring material?
>
>To charge $20 for shipping a belt is pushing the S & H thing quite a bit.
>
============================
Good suggestion on vacuum cleaner stores... from experience they have
a TON of belts ...
But I would grab an old pair of my wives panty hose and attempt to
make my own belt before I dropped close to 50 bucks for a belt and
shipping....
Bob Griffiths
On Sun, 03 Apr 2005 23:25:15 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
>"Bob G." <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>
>> When did Jet establish a dealer network..? Just curious...the only
>> Jet tool I own ( My Tablesaw) was ordered direct from them in 1989 or
>> 90...
>> AT the time I had never seen any Jet equiptment in any of the local
>> dealers that I visited...
>>
>> Bob Griffiths
>
>Woodcraft, Amazon, Coastal Tools all carry Jet. I'm sure others do also.
>
=============================================
Sheeze Ed....
Was Amazon even in business 15 years ago...?
When I want to get up close and personal with a machine I do make the
1 1/2 drive to Visit my "local" Woodcraft... But that is now ..Then
was in the late 80's...
BTW...Major reason for this reply was not to comment on your reply to
my question.....but was to let you know that I normally will read your
comments in ANY Newsgroup... and I can not say that about many
individuals..
Bob Griffiths
On Sat, 2 Apr 2005 00:31:17 -0600, "Greg O" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
>"USENET READER" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> $50 bucks to process an order? Who did they have working this place - a
>> buncha snails?
>>
>>
>
>Salesman places the order, enters into the computer. Order is picked,
>shipped or loaded on one of their many delivery trucks. Driver drops off the
>product, gets packing list signed. An order entry clerk confirms all was
>shipped, and corrects the bill and back orders any products not shipped.
>Another body prepares and sends out a bill, then at months end a statement.
>I probably have missed a step or two, including the person that placed the
>stock order to stock the warehouse shelve, the person that received the
>product into the warehouse and put it on the shelve.
>Do the math and every step adds a few seconds to several minutes to the
>process. Before you know it you have an hour or more spent just doing work
>caused from processing an order. Small orders are quick, large orders take
>more time.
>All the steps are caused one way or another from a customer's order.
>Greg
>
Sounds like a commpay with this sort of processing for spare parts
would happier without those PITA customers. They should try a policy
of "no customers" for 12 months, I'm sure the MBA_beancounter-wankers
would just love it, much reduced costs!!
Barry Lennox
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
>These are special micro v belts only 5mm wide, I checked all the usual
>suspects, MSC, Grainger, bearing houses, no luck. Special type belts
>for this lathe (and other machine tools), not a regular auto belt.
*Somebody* must make a compatible belt - I doubt that JET and Grizzly make
their own.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?
On Mon, 04 Apr 2005 17:04:14 -0400, "J. Clarke"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Barry Lennox wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 04 Apr 2005 10:09:07 -0400, "J. Clarke"
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>Barry Lennox wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sun, 03 Apr 2005 20:47:30 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>"Barry Lennox" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well, they should sack some of their useless staff and get their costs
>>>>>> under control. Amazon and Barnes & Noble can give reasonable shipping
>>>>>> costs so what exactly is Jet's problem?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Huge difference. Amazon, B&N are in the mail order business. Jet is
>>>>>not,
>>>>>and does not want to be. They want to sell through distributors. Order
>>>>>the part from your local dealer.
>>>>
>>>> Those are arbitrary labels, and there is no huge difference.
>>>>
>>>> Amazon, B&N are NOT in the mail order business (maybe the Post Office
>>>> is) They are in the business of offering something a customer wants in
>>>> exchange for a fair price, just as Jet is (or should be)
>>>
>>>Actually, they are in the mail order business, or more precisely the
>>>online order business if you want to split hairs about ordering via the
>>>Internet
>>>not being "mail order". By that token Sears isn't in the mail order
>>>business and Sears _invented_ the mail order business. But perhaps you're
>>>too young to be familiar with "mail order" that actually uses the mail.
>>
>> Whatever semantics or labels you use, they are still in the business
>> of business, ie: offering something a customer wants in exchange for a
>> fair price. That is a fundamental.
>>
>> Too young? Hardly! I see in my 1902 Sears catalogue Stanley planes
>> are priced from 9c to 37c.
>
>So you're 120 years old?
>
No, didn't say I was. But it's a genuine 1902 catalogue, not the 1986
reprinted version, belonged to my grandad.
On Sun, 03 Apr 2005 20:47:30 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
>"Barry Lennox" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
>>
>> Well, they should sack some of their useless staff and get their costs
>> under control. Amazon and Barnes & Noble can give reasonable shipping
>> costs so what exactly is Jet's problem?
>>
>
>Huge difference. Amazon, B&N are in the mail order business. Jet is not,
>and does not want to be. They want to sell through distributors. Order the
>part from your local dealer.
Those are arbitrary labels, and there is no huge difference.
Amazon, B&N are NOT in the mail order business (maybe the Post Office
is) They are in the business of offering something a customer wants in
exchange for a fair price, just as Jet is (or should be)
Most enlightened companies understand their real role is to offer
whatever it takes to satisfy, and perhaps delight, customers and keep
them coming back. They may well "want" to deal through distributors. I
do *not* want to, and prefer to deal direct. My view is as valid as
theirs. OTOH, if they don't want customers, then fine, get rid of them
all, that will solve their annoying spares problems.
>What makes you think they have useless staff?
They don't seem to get the point above, in my experience, and that of
the OP.
"Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> "Lobby Dosser" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>
>>
>> Profits are caused by repeat business and word of mouth.
>
> Profits are caused by selling at a higher amount than your costs.
That too.
>
>
>
"USENET READER" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> $50 bucks to process an order? Who did they have working this place - a
> buncha snails?
>
> Now I know that many other costs are factored in here - Social Security,
> Workman's Comp, all taxes (federal, state, property taxes, etc.), but that
> sounds ridiculous. How long a period of time did they figure it took to
> process that order?
>
Depends on the product. Many of our orders cost $100 to $300 to process as
shipment with billing of $200 to $7000. You can't speak in generalities.
Big mail order firms process hundreds, maybe thousands of orders a day while
Boeing may handle one. A big shipping day for us is 8 orders and it can
take four people most of the day to get them out the door.
>>
>> Why does everyone always use OLD panty hose, toothbrushes, wiper
>> blades, etc... when new ones only cost a few bucks?
>>
Just last week I replaced the wiper blades on my wives van (I very
rarely drive it)...and yesterday she walked in to my shop and
exciteltly..and very proud of herself .. told me she just had NEW
blades installed...
I kept my mouth shut...
BUT I did wonder why the kid who actually replaced the blades did not
notice they were brand new..never used ...never even saw any rain...
rubber was still shinny... lol
Bob G
Greg O wrote:
> "USENET READER" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>$50 bucks to process an order? Who did they have working this place - a
>>buncha snails?
>>
>>
>
>
> Salesman places the order, enters into the computer. Order is picked,
> shipped or loaded on one of their many delivery trucks. Driver drops off the
> product, gets packing list signed. An order entry clerk confirms all was
> shipped, and corrects the bill and back orders any products not shipped.
> Another body prepares and sends out a bill, then at months end a statement.
> I probably have missed a step or two, including the person that placed the
> stock order to stock the warehouse shelve, the person that received the
> product into the warehouse and put it on the shelve.
> Do the math and every step adds a few seconds to several minutes to the
> process. Before you know it you have an hour or more spent just doing work
> caused from processing an order. Small orders are quick, large orders take
> more time.
> All the steps are caused one way or another from a customer's order.
> Greg
>
>
So? If they get $10 an hour (wages, benefits,
etc.), it cost the company $10, not $20. I worked
where the estimated cost of letter was calculated
as $10, and processing a check (for jury duty)
cost the company way more than the check was worth.
Every one of those orders costs extra, right?
Nope, only for the most efficient business with
exactly the right number of employees. That
doesn't happen often. In many case, it doesn't
cost the company anything because the employees
would be sitting on the butts doing nothing, maybe
even doing something that cost the company a lot.
The only way to know how much it costs to process
orders is to divide the total cost by the total
number of orders. Does that mean that if the cost
averages $10 than another order would cost $10?
Probably not. It might just mean that the average
cost of the processing order just dropped slightly
when you average that next order in. There is no
strict answer as it depends on the company
operation.
It doesn't really matter. If a company is just
breaking even on mailing and handling costs, and
it costs $20 for a simple product always (or
should be always) in stock, then the company is
doing something wrong.
"USENET READER" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> If I work hard and decide to spend money on your product, I want it to
> work as advertised, and if it breaks or wears out, I want to be able to
> fix it in a reasonable period of time. Something like a belt breaking or
> needing to be replaced should not keep the tool out of commission for
> weeks.
Reasonable expectations. Parts should also be available for a few years
after a model is dicontinued.
>
> I mean - a table saw uses blades that you should be able to buy from damn
> near any store. When the blade gets dull, or you need a different blade
> for cutting plywood instead of ripping 2x, you can go anywhere to get the
> blade. Can you imagine how tough it would be to work with a tool if they
> used a proprietary blade that you could only get from them? You would be
> at the mercy of the supply chain.
That would change the dynamices of a tool buying decision. OTOH, if your
transmission fails on your Chevy, you may have to buy a GM part to get if
fixed. Sure, starters and alternators are readily available on the
aftermarket, but if you need a new door, it may have to come from a GM
dealer. You are very much at the mercy of the supply chain.
>
> And today - with this "just in time" bullshit, the stores don't stock the
> parts you need. One store sells a miter gauge for a table saw, but not
> the hold-down clamps. If the saw needs a belt, ant the belts sgtretch or
> break or wear out, then they should stock the belts, or have a way to get
> them sooner rather than later.
Maybe. If a store sell two lathes a years, should he have a belt in stock
at all times? How long to belts last? That $20 belt willl tie sup maybe
412 for a few years waiting for someone to buy it. Bandsaw blades wear out
a few times a year so they stock a lo tof them. If you are that conerned,
why don't you keep a spare in the shop? Most companies carry a stock of
parts for machines that they know will fail over time. We probably have
$20,000 in motors, hydraulip pumps, water pumps, solenoids, controllers,
etc. Some sit for a long time, but if needed, it is nice to have rahter
than have a machine down and not produce $500 an hour. If you are concerned
about your saw losing a belt late at night, keep a spare. Prudent to do so.
>
> One other problem is that with these companies merging, buying each ohter
> out, or moving offshore, is that the parts come from all over the damn
> place from companies in bumfuck china or wherever, and they don't make the
> parts but every so many months.
Yes, that can be a problem
>Or the dealer only orders parts from Delta or a distributor every month or
>so - or worse - whenever they have sold a certain volume of parts and tools
>per some corporate bean counter.
.
`
> This is for no other reason than to hit some target profit level dictated
> by some beancounter who feels that the companies business isn't to make a
> tool - it's to get a return on investment whether they sell saws or
> package up bags of dogshit.
You and I contribute to this problem. (Insert Pogo quote here) What was
the return on your stock portfolio, IRS or 401k plan? When stocks do not
perform we bitch and want to see better performance, more profits.
> They don't care about your needs, or even doing a good job - they only
> care about their almighty dollar!
Some do, others do have honest concerns. They MUST make a profit though, or
they cannot continue to serve you with spart parts, new products, etc. Do
you think ball players are more concerned with winning the game or making
millions? Movie stars? IMO, a lot of things should be changed but we have
to all get together on it.
$50 bucks to process an order? Who did they have working this place - a
buncha snails?
Now I know that many other costs are factored in here - Social Security,
Workman's Comp, all taxes (federal, state, property taxes, etc.), but
that sounds ridiculous. How long a period of time did they figure it
took to process that order?
Greg O wrote:
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>It's not who makes them, it's who sells them, they are hard to find. I
>>could have ordered one from a dealer and waited until he had enough Jet
>>parts to put in an order, but with the Internet, why bother. Jet charges
>>shipping based on the amount of the order, not on actual shipping charge
>>from UPS, or even by weight. I told her I could order a %15.00 bowling
>>ball (if they sold them) and it would be shipped to me for half what the
>>1/4oz belt would cost, make that make sense to me, she couldn't. She said
>>they couldn't track USPS shipments, and it cost to process the order.
>>Blah, Blah, Blah. Just another ripoff.
>>
>>
>
>
> Not to defend Jet, but I worked for a large wholesale house and their cost
> to process an order was $50. Jet probably would lose money on your belt
> purchase.
> Greg
>
>
OK - the problem I have with that theory of what businesses are in
business to do is this:
If I work hard and decide to spend money on your product, I want it to
work as advertised, and if it breaks or wears out, I want to be able to
fix it in a reasonable period of time. Something like a belt breaking
or needing to be replaced should not keep the tool out of commission for
weeks.
I mean - a table saw uses blades that you should be able to buy from
damn near any store. When the blade gets dull, or you need a different
blade for cutting plywood instead of ripping 2x, you can go anywhere to
get the blade. Can you imagine how tough it would be to work with a
tool if they used a proprietary blade that you could only get from them?
You would be at the mercy of the supply chain.
And today - with this "just in time" bullshit, the stores don't stock
the parts you need. One store sells a miter gauge for a table saw, but
not the hold-down clamps. If the saw needs a belt, ant the belts
sgtretch or break or wear out, then they should stock the belts, or have
a way to get them sooner rather than later.
One other problem is that with these companies merging, buying each
ohter out, or moving offshore, is that the parts come from all over the
damn place from companies in bumfuck china or wherever, and they don't
make the parts but every so many months. Or the dealer only orders
parts from Delta or a distributor every month or so - or worse -
whenever they have sold a certain volume of parts and tools per some
corporate bean counter. This is for no other reason than to hit some
target profit level dictated by some beancounter who feels that the
companies business isn't to make a tool - it's to get a return on
investment whether they sell saws or package up bags of dogshit. They
don't care about your needs, or even doing a good job - they only care
about their almighty dollar!
Barry Lennox wrote:
> On Sun, 03 Apr 2005 20:47:30 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>
>>"Barry Lennox" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>
>>
>>>Well, they should sack some of their useless staff and get their costs
>>>under control. Amazon and Barnes & Noble can give reasonable shipping
>>>costs so what exactly is Jet's problem?
>>>
>>
>>Huge difference. Amazon, B&N are in the mail order business. Jet is not,
>>and does not want to be. They want to sell through distributors. Order the
>>part from your local dealer.
>
>
> Those are arbitrary labels, and there is no huge difference.
>
> Amazon, B&N are NOT in the mail order business (maybe the Post Office
> is) They are in the business of offering something a customer wants in
> exchange for a fair price, just as Jet is (or should be)
>
> Most enlightened companies understand their real role is to offer
> whatever it takes to satisfy, and perhaps delight, customers and keep
> them coming back. They may well "want" to deal through distributors. I
> do *not* want to, and prefer to deal direct. My view is as valid as
> theirs. OTOH, if they don't want customers, then fine, get rid of them
> all, that will solve their annoying spares problems.
>
>
>>What makes you think they have useless staff?
>
>
> They don't seem to get the point above, in my experience, and that of
> the OP.
"Greg O" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Not to defend Jet, but I worked for a large wholesale house and their
> cost to process an order was $50. Jet probably would lose money on
> your belt purchase.
> Greg
>
>
>
They just did.
"Ba r r y" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Why does everyone always use OLD panty hose, toothbrushes, wiper
> blades, etc... when new ones only cost a few bucks?
>
> Barry
Old pantyhose have character and a nice patina.
Unquestionably Confused <[email protected]> wrote:
> The crux of the problem and Jamie's problem is that if the customer
> PERCEIVES that they are being hosed, they will take their business
> elsewhere. Perception is, in the real world, reality.
It works in the other direction too. If I call up a company and say I need
a new left-handed frobnitz, and the person I talk to on the phone says, "Aw
heck, that's not worth the paperwork to bill you for, just give me your
address and I'll send you one, no charge", they've just earned a customer
for life.
There's a couple of sayings:
1) It's a lot harder to get a new customer than to keep an existing one
happy.
2) It's a lot harder to get a old customer that you've pissed off once to
come back again than it is to get a new one.
"Greg O" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Not to defend Jet, but I worked for a large wholesale house and their cost
> to process an order was $50. Jet probably would lose money on your belt
> purchase.
I'm sure that's true. Enter an order into the system, track it through
shipping, mail a bill, receive the payment, match it up with the invoice in
the A/R dept, deposit the check, blah, blah, blah.
A lot of big companies handle this by just dropping some small item into an
envelope and giving you a freebie. Sometimes it's marked "engineering
sample" to get around stupid internal regs which prevent them from giving
away freebies. Chalk it up to good customer relations.
"Unquestionably Confused" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:XcU3e.20430>
> Yeah, they could toss that belt in a USPS Priority mail pack and send it
> off to Jamie and if they'd charged him $6.50 shipping AND HANDLING, they
> likely would not have heard a peep. However, to be so inflexible and
> demand $20 for something that small is their downfall. Jeez, what would
> they have done if he'd needed, gasp!, a shear pin or a washer?
>
> Common sense isn't!
Keep in mind also that Jet does not as a rule sell direct.. They prefer you
to order from the dealer. If there is no close dealer to service the tool
then this would be more of a courtesy convenience to sell to him directly.
The dealer can place a stock order that will have much a smaller freight
charge if any due to the volume.
"Greg O" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> "USENET READER" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> $50 bucks to process an order? Who did they have working this place
>> - a buncha snails?
>>
>>
>
> Salesman places the order, enters into the computer. Order is picked,
> shipped or loaded on one of their many delivery trucks. Driver drops
> off the product, gets packing list signed. An order entry clerk
> confirms all was shipped, and corrects the bill and back orders any
> products not shipped. Another body prepares and sends out a bill, then
> at months end a statement. I probably have missed a step or two,
> including the person that placed the stock order to stock the
> warehouse shelve, the person that received the product into the
> warehouse and put it on the shelve. Do the math and every step adds a
> few seconds to several minutes to the process. Before you know it you
> have an hour or more spent just doing work caused from processing an
> order. Small orders are quick, large orders take more time.
> All the steps are caused one way or another from a customer's order.
> Greg
>
>
Profits are caused by repeat business and word of mouth.
"O D" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> $50.. Good lord. How much does the company figure it cost them when an
> employee goes to take a dump?
The boys with the calculators probably know!
>Or do they have to use the restroom on
> their own time or break time?
>
That was the preferred method!!
Greg
"Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "O D" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> $50.. Good lord. How much does the company figure it cost them when an
>> employee goes to take a dump? Or do they have to use the restroom on
>> their own time or break time?
>>
>
> I bill shop help at $50 an hour. How much does it cost to take a dump?
> At five minutes per day, that is 20 hours per year or a half a week's
> vacation time. How much does it cost to smoke? If you have one smoke an
> hour at 5 minutes, that is 40 minutes per day. 166 hour per year. Not a
> bad vacation.
>
We just "laid off" a guy at our shop for that reason. He could not work with
out a cigarette burning. As there is no smoking allow inside businesses in
our city, (city ordinance), he had to go outside. Tough to get any work done
when you are a chain smoker! 5 minute breaks every 10 minutes are pretty
unproductive!
Greg
"O D" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> $50.. Good lord. How much does the company figure it cost them when an
> employee goes to take a dump? Or do they have to use the restroom on
> their own time or break time?
>
I bill shop help at $50 an hour. How much does it cost to take a dump? At
five minutes per day, that is 20 hours per year or a half a week's vacation
time. How much does it cost to smoke? If you have one smoke an hour at 5
minutes, that is 40 minutes per day. 166 hour per year. Not a bad vacation.
On Sun, 3 Apr 2005 21:02:01 -0400, the inscrutable "Owen Lawrence"
<[email protected]> spake:
>No, I wasn't angry about it; it's too small a thing to get worked up about.
>(I apologize for coming across that way.) I was just trying to provide a
>counter example to one of the previous poster's implicit assertion that Lee
>Valley Tools does everything right.
I probably overreacted, too. Sorry.
>I live in Ottawa and do my shopping
>there in person; I did take the effort to drop in and ask for another
>syringe tip but I got nowhere. Even if the guy had told me that they're
>expected to clog after one or two uses (why else do they sell replacement
>tips?) I might be more charitable. Maybe we were all having a bad day, I
>dunno.
That's very possible.
BTW, after this discussion, I found that I had bought pin vises last
year but never got around to getting the set of HSS #61-80 billdrits,
so I ordered them via Ebay last night. $0.95 plus (get this) $1.10
insurance (-required-) and $3.75 shipping. That works out to 29 cents
per bit, delivered. Not a bad price, but shipping and insurance were
400% of the original cost.
--
The clear and present danger of top-posting explored at:
http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote2.html
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"George E. Cawthon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Well of course you could just go to the local pharmacy and buy a needle or
> a whole pack. Or better yet just talk to a person that uses insulin and
> get a used syringe (cleaned of course).
>
> Of course that isn't the point. OD is correct, they should just include a
> spare belt, which probably would cost the manufacture pennies to do.
> Vacuum cleaners come with a spare belt, and an expensive piece of
> machinery doesn't?
OD would be pissed because there were not 2 extra belts or enough to last a
life time.
On Sun, 3 Apr 2005 16:25:48 -0400, the inscrutable "Owen Lawrence"
<[email protected]> spake:
>You're going to get a nosebleed if you go up much higher on your horse.
Know that from experience, do you? :^)
>What did Robin Lee do to warrant so much defense from you? I did learn, and
>I didn't pay. When I do pay, it will be a reasonable price. Whether my
>money goes to Lee Valley or somewhere else is yet to be determined.
Rob's a great guy and I've talked with him via both rec.woodworking
and email. He and his company are friendly, full of integrity, and
truly care about their customers. Their customer service is legendary.
If you don't believe that, Google the Wreck for it.
>Somehow people here seem insulted when you have anything less than worship
>for Lee Valley Tools. I don't get it.
Most of us have had only positive experiences with the company.
>I did RTFM, and let me quote: "Everything cleans with just water so the
>needles and syringe are reusable indefinitely." I also used hot water, and
>blew it out when I was done using it. Just common sense. When it didn't
>work I attempted to unclog it with piece of steel wire. Then I stopped.
>Why should I waste my time trying to unclog a low value piece of tubing?
>It's quite possible the one I got had a defect, but Lee Valley sure wasn't
>willing to give me another try at it unless I covered every penny of their
>cost. Instead, I go to my junk box, fish out a syringe, use that. My loss.
Had you complained, they would have offered to cover your cost to ship
the product back and refunded all of your money. You obviously weren't
that angry about it. I'm surprised that they didn't offer to send
another syringe top for you, though. When Rob sees this thread (he
tracks the Wreck) he might have some more input on it. I recall having
seen a valid gripe here change their company policy for the better.
(How often do you hear something like that happening in today's
business environment?)
>The point is, that glue is expensive, and every word of advertising and
>instruction leads me to believe I'm not going to have any kind of trouble.
>No warnings, troubleshooting steps, or anything to lower my expectations
>even the slightest. Everything else I have bought at Lee Valley has been
>pretty good, and I was willing to pay much more for my high expectations.
>I'm less willing next time.
That is unfortunate.
>> Moving on...
>
>Yah right.
?
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"O D" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Guess you missed my point although it was not really clear. But maybe
> the mfg should send spare parts that wear out.
> They know the belt will wear so why not ust price the machine with
> spares? Nooooo they have to piss off the customer like this.
> Went to a chevron sa station 3 mos ago got $38 in gas then pulled over
> to put some air in a tire. The machine said ..50 went inside and asked
> and lady said yes everyone pays . Said just bought gas. Still have to
> pay. Said thanks but this is the last time chevron goes in my truck.
> Went to another station got free air. Have not put air n my tires in
> over 30 yrs. Should be a cost of doing business or have a code a cust
> can punch in like they do with the car wash. Hell no we need the .50 .
> Now don't go tell me that the free air for one veh will be cost
> prohibited. After they buy gas. People don't use air every time they
> fill up. But you can get a coffee inside and help yourself to all the
> mustard relish ketchup straws napkins etc. Now where is the logic. They
> have a build in system to piss off the customer. Add a few buck send
> along an extra belt and forget it. Better yet, what would robin Lee do?
>
What would Robin Lee do? Tell you that the syringe tip that comes with that
$8 2oz bottle of Chair Doctor glue can be cleaned with water and reused
indefinitely, then charge an arm and a leg for a couple of replacement tips
when it glues shut anyway, inspite of a thorough cleaning immediately after
using it.
- Owen -
> >Somehow people here seem insulted when you have anything less than
worship
> >for Lee Valley Tools. I don't get it.
>
> Most of us have had only positive experiences with the company.
I have had _mostly_ positive experiences.
> Had you complained, they would have offered to cover your cost to ship
> the product back and refunded all of your money. You obviously weren't
> that angry about it. I'm surprised that they didn't offer to send
> another syringe top for you, though. When Rob sees this thread (he
> tracks the Wreck) he might have some more input on it. I recall having
> seen a valid gripe here change their company policy for the better.
> (How often do you hear something like that happening in today's
> business environment?)
No, I wasn't angry about it; it's too small a thing to get worked up about.
(I apologize for coming across that way.) I was just trying to provide a
counter example to one of the previous poster's implicit assertion that Lee
Valley Tools does everything right. I live in Ottawa and do my shopping
there in person; I did take the effort to drop in and ask for another
syringe tip but I got nowhere. Even if the guy had told me that they're
expected to clog after one or two uses (why else do they sell replacement
tips?) I might be more charitable. Maybe we were all having a bad day, I
dunno.
- Owen -
I did not make an implicit assertion that
lee valley was perfect. Unless I missed someone else post , and that was
their post. I only asked what robin lee would do.
The whole darn thing comes down to a company believing too much in the
old saying, THERE IS A SUCKER BORN EVERY DAY.
I think companies like shop fox should have something made up to replace
the items that wear out often. I have no idea how long a belt should
last on whatever kind of unit that was purchased. (lathe ? )
Just like the poster about the shear pins for his snow blower. Maybe I
have the wrong mind set. But I feel I DID THE COMPANY a favor by
shopping with them.
They did not do me the favor. As a customer WE pay the company employees
salary and the company just signs the check. We don't buy they don't
work. But you can be sure at least someone will be selling because they
can see the big picture. Guess ole forrest gump was right. Doing
business with shop fox and a box of chocolates.
Guess you missed my point although it was not really clear. But maybe
the mfg should send spare parts that wear out.
They know the belt will wear so why not ust price the machine with
spares? Nooooo they have to piss off the customer like this.
Went to a chevron sa station 3 mos ago got $38 in gas then pulled over
to put some air in a tire. The machine said ..50 went inside and asked
and lady said yes everyone pays . Said just bought gas. Still have to
pay. Said thanks but this is the last time chevron goes in my truck.
Went to another station got free air. Have not put air n my tires in
over 30 yrs. Should be a cost of doing business or have a code a cust
can punch in like they do with the car wash. Hell no we need the .50 .
Now don't go tell me that the free air for one veh will be cost
prohibited. After they buy gas. People don't use air every time they
fill up. But you can get a coffee inside and help yourself to all the
mustard relish ketchup straws napkins etc. Now where is the logic. They
have a build in system to piss off the customer. Add a few buck send
along an extra belt and forget it. Better yet, what would robin Lee do?
"Larry Jaques" <novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sat, 2 Apr 2005 19:16:06 -0500, the inscrutable "Owen Lawrence"
> <[email protected]> spake:
>
> >"O D" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> >> have a build in system to piss off the customer. Add a few buck send
> >> along an extra belt and forget it. Better yet, what would robin Lee do?
> >
> >What would Robin Lee do? Tell you that the syringe tip that comes with
that
> >$8 2oz bottle of Chair Doctor glue can be cleaned with water and reused
> >indefinitely, then charge an arm and a leg for a couple of replacement
tips
> >when it glues shut anyway, inspite of a thorough cleaning immediately
after
> >using it.
>
> So RTFM. Have you learned to maintain your glue tip yet? Proper
> maintenance is a part of any hobby or vocation, dude. Learn or pay.
You're going to get a nosebleed if you go up much higher on your horse.
What did Robin Lee do to warrant so much defense from you? I did learn, and
I didn't pay. When I do pay, it will be a reasonable price. Whether my
money goes to Lee Valley or somewhere else is yet to be determined.
Somehow people here seem insulted when you have anything less than worship
for Lee Valley Tools. I don't get it.
> Did you try soaking or boiling it in vinegar? Did you ask a diabetic
> friend for an extra syringe tip? Do you have a set of 61-80 number
> drill bits or a piece of piano/guitar wire?
I did RTFM, and let me quote: "Everything cleans with just water so the
needles and syringe are reusable indefinitely." I also used hot water, and
blew it out when I was done using it. Just common sense. When it didn't
work I attempted to unclog it with piece of steel wire. Then I stopped.
Why should I waste my time trying to unclog a low value piece of tubing?
It's quite possible the one I got had a defect, but Lee Valley sure wasn't
willing to give me another try at it unless I covered every penny of their
cost. Instead, I go to my junk box, fish out a syringe, use that. My loss.
The point is, that glue is expensive, and every word of advertising and
instruction leads me to believe I'm not going to have any kind of trouble.
No warnings, troubleshooting steps, or anything to lower my expectations
even the slightest. Everything else I have bought at Lee Valley has been
pretty good, and I was willing to pay much more for my high expectations.
I'm less willing next time.
> Moving on...
Yah right.
- Owen -
"O D" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Guess you missed my point although it was not really clear. But maybe
> the mfg should send spare parts that wear out.
> They know the belt will wear so why not ust price the machine with
> spares? Nooooo they have to piss off the customer like this.
DAMN those automobile manufacturers that sell cars with tires that wear out.
Don't get me started on the tool companies that make sanders and include 1
sheet of sand paper in the box.
Owen Lawrence wrote:
> "O D" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>Guess you missed my point although it was not really clear. But maybe
>>the mfg should send spare parts that wear out.
>>They know the belt will wear so why not ust price the machine with
>>spares? Nooooo they have to piss off the customer like this.
>>Went to a chevron sa station 3 mos ago got $38 in gas then pulled over
>>to put some air in a tire. The machine said ..50 went inside and asked
>>and lady said yes everyone pays . Said just bought gas. Still have to
>>pay. Said thanks but this is the last time chevron goes in my truck.
>>Went to another station got free air. Have not put air n my tires in
>>over 30 yrs. Should be a cost of doing business or have a code a cust
>>can punch in like they do with the car wash. Hell no we need the .50 .
>>Now don't go tell me that the free air for one veh will be cost
>>prohibited. After they buy gas. People don't use air every time they
>>fill up. But you can get a coffee inside and help yourself to all the
>>mustard relish ketchup straws napkins etc. Now where is the logic. They
>>have a build in system to piss off the customer. Add a few buck send
>>along an extra belt and forget it. Better yet, what would robin Lee do?
>>
>
>
> What would Robin Lee do? Tell you that the syringe tip that comes with that
> $8 2oz bottle of Chair Doctor glue can be cleaned with water and reused
> indefinitely, then charge an arm and a leg for a couple of replacement tips
> when it glues shut anyway, inspite of a thorough cleaning immediately after
> using it.
>
> - Owen -
>
>
Well of course you could just go to the local
pharmacy and buy a needle or a whole pack. Or
better yet just talk to a person that uses insulin
and get a used syringe (cleaned of course).
Of course that isn't the point. OD is correct,
they should just include a spare belt, which
probably would cost the manufacture pennies to do.
Vacuum cleaners come with a spare belt, and an
expensive piece of machinery doesn't?
On Sat, 2 Apr 2005 19:16:06 -0500, the inscrutable "Owen Lawrence"
<[email protected]> spake:
>"O D" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> have a build in system to piss off the customer. Add a few buck send
>> along an extra belt and forget it. Better yet, what would robin Lee do?
>
>What would Robin Lee do? Tell you that the syringe tip that comes with that
>$8 2oz bottle of Chair Doctor glue can be cleaned with water and reused
>indefinitely, then charge an arm and a leg for a couple of replacement tips
>when it glues shut anyway, inspite of a thorough cleaning immediately after
>using it.
So RTFM. Have you learned to maintain your glue tip yet? Proper
maintenance is a part of any hobby or vocation, dude. Learn or pay.
Did you try soaking or boiling it in vinegar? Did you ask a diabetic
friend for an extra syringe tip? Do you have a set of 61-80 number
drill bits or a piece of piano/guitar wire?
Moving on...
Hey, I hadn't seen these short auger bits before today. Handy!
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=49884&cat=1,180,42240,49983
---------------------------------------------------------------
Never put off 'til tomorrow | http://www.diversify.com
what you can avoid altogether. | Dynamic Website Applications
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Greg O wrote:
>"Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>
>
>>"O D" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]...
>>
>>
>>>$50.. Good lord. How much does the company figure it cost them when an
>>>employee goes to take a dump? Or do they have to use the restroom on
>>>their own time or break time?
>>>
>>>
>>I bill shop help at $50 an hour. How much does it cost to take a dump?
>>At five minutes per day, that is 20 hours per year or a half a week's
>>vacation time. How much does it cost to smoke? If you have one smoke an
>>hour at 5 minutes, that is 40 minutes per day. 166 hour per year. Not a
>>bad vacation.
>>
>>
>
>We just "laid off" a guy at our shop for that reason. He could not work with
>out a cigarette burning. As there is no smoking allow inside businesses in
>our city, (city ordinance), he had to go outside. Tough to get any work done
>when you are a chain smoker! 5 minute breaks every 10 minutes are pretty
>unproductive!
>Greg
>
There's a big difference between smoking (a choice) and dropping the
kids off at the pool (a necessity). I guess if one has the hershey
squirts their in real trouble.
John
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Greg O wrote:<br>
<blockquote cite="[email protected]" type="cite">
<pre wrap="">"Edwin Pawlowski" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:[email protected]"><[email protected]></a> wrote in message
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="news:[email protected]">news:[email protected]</a>...
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">"O D" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:[email protected]"><[email protected]></a> wrote in message
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="news:[email protected]">news:[email protected]</a>...
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">$50.. Good lord. How much does the company figure it cost them when an
employee goes to take a dump? Or do they have to use the restroom on
their own time or break time?
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">I bill shop help at $50 an hour. How much does it cost to take a dump?
At five minutes per day, that is 20 hours per year or a half a week's
vacation time. How much does it cost to smoke? If you have one smoke an
hour at 5 minutes, that is 40 minutes per day. 166 hour per year. Not a
bad vacation.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->
We just "laid off" a guy at our shop for that reason. He could not work with
out a cigarette burning. As there is no smoking allow inside businesses in
our city, (city ordinance), he had to go outside. Tough to get any work done
when you are a chain smoker! 5 minute breaks every 10 minutes are pretty
unproductive!
Greg </pre>
</blockquote>
There's a big difference between smoking (a choice) and dropping the
kids off at the pool (a necessity). I guess if one has the hershey
squirts their in real trouble.<br>
John<br>
</body>
</html>
--------------030909010009070305040105--
"O D" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> $50.. Good lord. How much does the company figure it cost them when an
> employee goes to take a dump? Or do they have to use the restroom on
> their own time or break time?
>
Obviously no business management back ground. but if the employee did not
have to take a crap, the cost of doing business would be lower. Besides
paying the employee, you have insurance, local taxes, the cost of the
facility, cost of equipment, cost of maintaninence, and the cost of the
product that you are selling. Workmans comp, Utilities, Office Supplies,
Advertising, Retirement Plans to name a few. If anything is left over after
all those expenses, you have your Net Profit which Uncle Sam wants to share
with you.
"George E. Cawthon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> A company that sell items for delivery (mail order for example) shouldn't
> be charging much more for delivery than the actual cost of mail or
> freight; the handling charge should be included in the selling price just
> like other operating costs.
If you sell strictly mail-order, you can include the handling costs as part
of the price. If you sell both retail and mail-order, the handling cost
will be different for each and will vary according to order size.
The problem with including handling charges in the price is competition. No
one want to be first to do it. I've seen a few TV infomercials where they
sell you some junk for $19.99 and you get a second one free, just pay
separate shipping and handling charges. Now that is pure scam as they know
ahead they will be giving you two and it is no more time to pull two from
the bin as it is to pull one.