I've just applied the sixth coat of semi-gloss and the piece is looking goo=
d. IIRC, the last time I used poly (maybe 15 years ago), I did a light pas=
s with 0000 steel wood after the final coat just to smooth out the surface.=
Oui? And I have a nice can of Johnson paste wax. I'm thinking about a c=
oat of Johnson after giving the poly a week to cure. Thoughts?
Larry
As usual, a spirited discussion with little consensus. I ended up with six=
or seven coats (I seem to have lost count). I am very satisfied with the =
look, but it is a tad rough to the touch. I'm going to wait a couple days =
and then use a light application of 0000 steel wool, just to get back to ba=
by-butt smoothness.
Larry
On 6/1/2014 7:22 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
>
> Ya know... some day I'm gonna find my way to get my ass down to Texas and
> I'm gonna let Robert buy me a beer...
Hope you like a good whiskey and cigar ... it probably won't be a beer. ;)
--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
"Gramps' shop" wrote:
I've just applied the sixth coat of semi-gloss and the piece is
looking good. IIRC, the last time I used poly (maybe 15 years ago), I
did a light pass with 0000 steel wood after the final coat just to
smooth out the surface. Oui? And I have a nice can of Johnson paste
wax. I'm thinking about a coat of Johnson after giving the poly a
week to cure. Thoughts?
----------------------------------------------
SFWIW, I wait a minimum of 30 days before starting a "rub out"
Like chicken soup, no medicinal value but it hadn't ought to hurt.
Lew
"Mike Marlow" wrote:
> Ya know... some day I'm gonna find my way to get my ass down to
> Texas and I'm gonna let Robert buy me a beer...
--------------------------------------------------------
I'm reminded of the ad campaign of a northwest brewery that
didn't have a lot of distribution outside of the NW.
When customers threatened to come to NW to get the beer
the brewery took out an ad.
Just send the money, we'll send the beer.
Lew
---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com
On Saturday, May 31, 2014 6:51:06 PM UTC-5, Mike Marlow wrote:
> Yes - I agree. There appears to have been a misunderstanding on that=20
>=20
> point - and that misunderstanding may have been on my part. If so -=20
>=20
> sorry...
> -Mike-
I didn't see anything to be sorry about, Mike. You know as well as I do th=
at there are so many conditions and individual product idiosyncrasies that =
all that can be done here is some good general advice. I would CERTAINLY t=
ake heed to yours, and you would be the first one I would call if I thought=
I might get bold enough to paint an auto (NOT likely!).
And... let's not forget who nudged me into actually spraying poly when I wo=
uldn't touch it. (Hint: Initials MM.)
It's all good. I always respect those that have practical, hand-on experie=
nce that are kind enough to put their knowledge out there to share. While =
my experience may not agree on any given subject, that certainly doesn't me=
an mine is the only way. That's how we learn from one another, right?
Robert
On 5/30/2014 11:10 AM, Gramps' shop wrote:
> I've just applied the sixth coat of semi-gloss and the piece is looking good. IIRC, the last time I used poly (maybe 15 years ago), I did a light pass with 0000 steel wood after the final coat just to smooth out the surface. Oui? And I have a nice can of Johnson paste wax. I'm thinking about a coat of Johnson after giving the poly a week to cure. Thoughts?
>
> Larry
>
The nice thing about the steel wool is it will give you the sheen you
are looking for. It will knock down that plastic look somewhat. One of
the reasons I don't like poly, it looks like plastic. You can again use
wet dry in 600 and above to get the sheen, and finish with steel wool,
or just do it in steel wool. Again use a lube.. like mineral oil.
The paste wax won't offer protection above the poly, but it might give
it the glow and feel that you are looking for. You can remove it with
mineral spirits if you don't like it.
--
Jeff
On 5/30/2014 7:41 PM, dadiOH wrote:
> "Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
>> dadiOH wrote:
>>> "Gramps' shop" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]
>>>> I've just applied the sixth coat of semi-gloss and the piece is
>>>> looking good. IIRC, the last time I used poly (maybe 15 years ago),
>>>> I did a light pass with 0000 steel wood after the final coat just to
>>>> smooth out the surface. Oui? And I have a nice can of Johnson
>>>> paste wax. I'm thinking about a coat of Johnson after giving the
>>>> poly a week to cure. Thoughts?
>>>>
>>>> Larry
>>>
>>> If this is oil base poly varnish, a week is insufficient. Wait at
>>> least two weeks, preferably four. If/when you use the steel wool,
>>> use it sufficiently to make a uniform looking surface - which is way
>>> more than a light pass - then wax.
>>
>> Not sure I agree. With just one coat of poly, 24 hours is plenty more
>> than sufficient. But... with multiple coats as described, then it's safe
>> to assume more time to allow for hardening. That said - I'm not so sure
>> that two weeks is required. It cannot hurt, but I'm just not convinced
>> that it is required.
>
> It may be dry after 24 hours but "dry" and "cured" are two different things.
> Heck, his semi-gloss is still going to be nearly as shiny as glossy for at
> least 10 days.
>
> If one sands a finish too early, one is removing more or less equal amounts
> from both hills and valleys, "hills and valleys" being the minute
> differences in the wood's surface. As the finish continues curing, it
> continues to shrink...what was once smooth and flat no longer is. IME.
>
>
I agree. Curing takes longer. Mike you know how paint balls up when it
hasn't gassed off for a few weeks. Same with poly. It's better after a
week or 2...
--
Jeff
On 5/30/2014 10:10 AM, Gramps' shop wrote:
> I've just applied the sixth coat of semi-gloss and the piece is looking good. IIRC, the last time I used poly (maybe 15 years ago), I did a light pass with 0000 steel wood after the final coat just to smooth out the surface. Oui? And I have a nice can of Johnson paste wax. I'm thinking about a coat of Johnson after giving the poly a week to cure. Thoughts?
>
> Larry
>
You might as well apply the wax with the steep wool, save a step.
Hmmmm....
Lots of good and bad information here. I do this for a living, but as alwa=
ys, your mileage may vary. Just some random thoughts:
Good post DadiOh. Dr. Marlow, don't confuse that high powered ultra hot sp=
ecialized poly you shoot with the big box stuff going on a home project app=
lied with a paint brush. With your experience and skill level in auto pain=
ting (a highly technical field when done right) you might be thinking the o=
ff the shelf products the average guy uses perform as well as your stuff. =
For example, I sometimes shoot a pre catalysed polyurethane conversion lacq=
uer that you can recoat in 20 minutes and get full adhesion, no sagging and=
no witness lines! Try that with Minwax, Bartlett's, General Finishes, ML =
Cambell, etc.
So, here's my take. To anyone reading this, remember what you paid for it.
I don't sand between coat of poly unless it is to remove a nib or drip. NE=
VER. If you recoat when you should, you don't need to. I have never had a =
finish fail. Sand if you need to, but it isn't required. I have sanded be=
tween coats and it has caused me more heartburn that it is worth. Practice=
your application, learn your product carefully and you won't have to do it=
.
Using soap to sand between applied coats of anything but more soap is folly=
. Why would anyone use a surfactant product that is loaded with perfumes, =
dyes, oils, silicone and other chemicals to sand? This is an enormously ea=
sy way to foul your finishes. If you must sand, buy non-stearated paper to=
use. Steel wool has oils in it, and even the ones that don't will tend to=
break off the fibers (as designed) and leave them behind on your finish. =
If you cannot find non-stearated paper, find the very finest Scotch Brite p=
ad you can get (white?) and use that.
You don't need more than three coats of poly. Each coat should be applied =
at a uniform 3 mil thickness, which will dry to a thickness of about 1 mil.=
(This is based on a precat product with 25 to 30% solids). Three coats w=
ill give you a final build of 3 mil, which is great for most tables, furnit=
ure, etc.
Wear resistance is not based on final product thickness. Additional coats c=
an make the final product discolor more easily, and since it is not applied=
as designed, in come cases make it unstable or brittle. Wear resistance i=
s based on proper application as specified by the manufacturer that designe=
d the product, and the quality of the resins used in its manufacture.
I have not put on a poly finish in years (remember Mike... not your stuff) =
that doesn't require 21 days as the magic number for full cure. Yes, green=
cure is in as little as 48 hours, but full strength isn't for much longer =
than that.
The longer the finish has to cure, the harder it will be as all chemical an=
d physical actions/reactions will have ended. The harder the finish is, th=
e easier it is to "rub out".
Putting wax on polyurethane is silly unless it makes you feel better. A pol=
yurethane is nothing more than a modified plastic polymer, so you are waxin=
g plastic. Certainly the wax provides NO value to the protection of the wo=
od. Waxing can lead to build up of wax residue, and improper application (=
say at the wrong time) can foul your finish.
As a finish dries/cures, it shrinks. It will flatten on its own, without a=
ny fuss. This is easy to see; how do you think your brush marks disappear?=
Why do you think your lap marks reduce or disappear? The last Minwax app=
lication I did for a table top I applied with a lamb's wool applicator and =
every single ridge and valley disappeared. All of them. You can also see =
this when you put poly on an unfilled wood like oak, or fill a rough spot i=
n a board. You fill them when you apply, then come back later and the prod=
uct that filled the holes in the oak and shrunk back, the tension is broken=
and the holes in the oak are readily seen. Filling a board with planer ch=
ip out around a knot will look good until the product dries, then you will =
see the chip out very easily. This is why you pore fill, and fill divots. =
The product shrinks and tightens up. It does not sag or relax to fill imp=
erfections.=20
As pointed out by Ed P, you can get an incredible finish that would make an=
y furniture maker proud using poly if you are willing to put the work into =
it. For years, Jeff Jewitt had a great picture on his web site of his bran=
d of poly (Target)sitting on a table. He did as Ed described, and the refl=
ection on the table that used his poly and that method made a mirror like f=
inish that reflected the poly can perfectly. Really nice. It could easily =
be confused with a rubbed lacquer finish.
There is a lot of great information out there that can be easily had. Here=
is a great primer on polurethane:
http://www.popularwoodworking.com/article/the_7_myths_of_polyurethane
Use articles from credible finishers as your guidelines and do what works f=
or you after you try out their advice and tips. By the way, Bob Flexnor wr=
ote the above referenced article; if he says it, you have a 99% chance of b=
eing able to take it to the bank. My finishing got noticeably better after =
I read absolutely everything I could find that he wrote. The man is a mast=
er of PRACTICAL finishing techniques.
Mr. Marlow and I have talked about this aspect, too. It is soooo easy to c=
all the manufacturer of a product and ask them any questions you have. Why=
rely on a bunch of guys you don't know? You might be getting advice from =
a guy that applies finish to a project every six months or longer, and uses=
product that is a couple of years old. That won't yield anything good. E=
very can has a tech support number these days and usually a tech guy on the=
ready. I call whenever I have a question about anything to do with their =
products and the manufacturers have always been glad that someone took the =
time to call them before starting their application as opposed to calling a=
fter they screw it up.
Good luck. Remember, practice on your scraps, not on your projects.
Robert
"Gramps' shop" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> I've just applied the sixth coat of semi-gloss and the piece is looking
> good. IIRC, the last time I used poly (maybe 15 years ago), I did a
> light pass with 0000 steel wood after the final coat just to smooth out
> the surface. Oui? And I have a nice can of Johnson paste wax. I'm
> thinking about a coat of Johnson after giving the poly a week to cure.
> Thoughts?
>
> Larry
If this is oil base poly varnish, a week is insufficient. Wait at least two
weeks, preferably four. If/when you use the steel wool, use it sufficiently
to make a uniform looking surface - which is way more than a light pass -
then wax.
BTW, 6 coats is overkill. I only use four - sometimes three - on surfaces
that receive heavy wear (like floors).
--
dadiOH
____________________________
Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net
dadiOH wrote:
> "Gramps' shop" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
>> I've just applied the sixth coat of semi-gloss and the piece is
>> looking good. IIRC, the last time I used poly (maybe 15 years ago),
>> I did a light pass with 0000 steel wood after the final coat just to
>> smooth out the surface. Oui? And I have a nice can of Johnson
>> paste wax. I'm thinking about a coat of Johnson after giving the
>> poly a week to cure. Thoughts?
>>
>> Larry
>
> If this is oil base poly varnish, a week is insufficient. Wait at
> least two weeks, preferably four. If/when you use the steel wool,
> use it sufficiently to make a uniform looking surface - which is way
> more than a light pass - then wax.
Not sure I agree. With just one coat of poly, 24 hours is plenty more than
sufficient. But... with multiple coats as described, then it's safe to
assume more time to allow for hardening. That said - I'm not so sure that
two weeks is required. It cannot hurt, but I'm just not convinced that it
is required.
>
> BTW, 6 coats is overkill. I only use four - sometimes three - on
> surfaces that receive heavy wear (like floors).
Well applied, I'm a believer that two coats is all you need. This stuff is
hard stuff and will stand up to a lot of use.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
"Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> dadiOH wrote:
> > "Gramps' shop" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]
> > > I've just applied the sixth coat of semi-gloss and the piece is
> > > looking good. IIRC, the last time I used poly (maybe 15 years ago),
> > > I did a light pass with 0000 steel wood after the final coat just to
> > > smooth out the surface. Oui? And I have a nice can of Johnson
> > > paste wax. I'm thinking about a coat of Johnson after giving the
> > > poly a week to cure. Thoughts?
> > >
> > > Larry
> >
> > If this is oil base poly varnish, a week is insufficient. Wait at
> > least two weeks, preferably four. If/when you use the steel wool,
> > use it sufficiently to make a uniform looking surface - which is way
> > more than a light pass - then wax.
>
> Not sure I agree. With just one coat of poly, 24 hours is plenty more
> than sufficient. But... with multiple coats as described, then it's safe
> to assume more time to allow for hardening. That said - I'm not so sure
> that two weeks is required. It cannot hurt, but I'm just not convinced
> that it is required.
It may be dry after 24 hours but "dry" and "cured" are two different things.
Heck, his semi-gloss is still going to be nearly as shiny as glossy for at
least 10 days.
If one sands a finish too early, one is removing more or less equal amounts
from both hills and valleys, "hills and valleys" being the minute
differences in the wood's surface. As the finish continues curing, it
continues to shrink...what was once smooth and flat no longer is. IME.
--
dadiOH
____________________________
Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net
dadiOH wrote:
> "Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
>> dadiOH wrote:
>>> "Gramps' shop" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]
>>>> I've just applied the sixth coat of semi-gloss and the piece is
>>>> looking good. IIRC, the last time I used poly (maybe 15 years
>>>> ago), I did a light pass with 0000 steel wood after the final coat
>>>> just to smooth out the surface. Oui? And I have a nice can of
>>>> Johnson paste wax. I'm thinking about a coat of Johnson after
>>>> giving the poly a week to cure. Thoughts?
>>>>
>>>> Larry
>>>
>>> If this is oil base poly varnish, a week is insufficient. Wait at
>>> least two weeks, preferably four. If/when you use the steel wool,
>>> use it sufficiently to make a uniform looking surface - which is way
>>> more than a light pass - then wax.
>>
>> Not sure I agree. With just one coat of poly, 24 hours is plenty
>> more than sufficient. But... with multiple coats as described, then
>> it's safe to assume more time to allow for hardening. That said -
>> I'm not so sure that two weeks is required. It cannot hurt, but I'm
>> just not convinced that it is required.
>
> It may be dry after 24 hours but "dry" and "cured" are two different
> things. Heck, his semi-gloss is still going to be nearly as shiny as
> glossy for at least 10 days.
>
Wrong. If his semi gloss looks glossy after 10 days then something is very
wrong. No more than one day to scuff for the second coat and no more than
one day to handle. It most certainly does not take 10 days to cure poly.
> If one sands a finish too early, one is removing more or less equal
> amounts from both hills and valleys, "hills and valleys" being the
> minute differences in the wood's surface. As the finish continues
> curing, it continues to shrink...what was once smooth and flat no
> longer is. IME.
Have to completely disagree with this. I don't think you've actually
observed your work if you make this statement. No matter when one sands,
one is always going to sand the hills before the valleys. Too soon and
yes - you can gum things up but at 24 hours you are well within any time
requirement for sanding. Even in the humidity of summer.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
woodchucker wrote:
> On 5/30/2014 7:41 PM, dadiOH wrote:
>> "Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]
>>> dadiOH wrote:
>>>> "Gramps' shop" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>> news:[email protected]
>>>>> I've just applied the sixth coat of semi-gloss and the piece is
>>>>> looking good. IIRC, the last time I used poly (maybe 15 years
>>>>> ago), I did a light pass with 0000 steel wood after the final
>>>>> coat just to smooth out the surface. Oui? And I have a nice can
>>>>> of Johnson paste wax. I'm thinking about a coat of Johnson after
>>>>> giving the poly a week to cure. Thoughts?
>>>>>
>>>>> Larry
>>>>
>>>> If this is oil base poly varnish, a week is insufficient. Wait at
>>>> least two weeks, preferably four. If/when you use the steel wool,
>>>> use it sufficiently to make a uniform looking surface - which is
>>>> way more than a light pass - then wax.
>>>
>>> Not sure I agree. With just one coat of poly, 24 hours is plenty
>>> more than sufficient. But... with multiple coats as described,
>>> then it's safe to assume more time to allow for hardening. That
>>> said - I'm not so sure that two weeks is required. It cannot hurt,
>>> but I'm just not convinced that it is required.
>>
>> It may be dry after 24 hours but "dry" and "cured" are two different
>> things. Heck, his semi-gloss is still going to be nearly as shiny as
>> glossy for at least 10 days.
>>
>> If one sands a finish too early, one is removing more or less equal
>> amounts from both hills and valleys, "hills and valleys" being the
>> minute differences in the wood's surface. As the finish continues
>> curing, it continues to shrink...what was once smooth and flat no
>> longer is. IME.
> I agree. Curing takes longer. Mike you know how paint balls up when it
> hasn't gassed off for a few weeks. Same with poly. It's better after a
> week or 2...
Completely wrong. Poly is plenty ready to knock down after 24 hours. I've
put on way too much poly to even entertain this idea. Don't confuse your
notion of outgassing with a finish that is ready for scuffing. Two
different things.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 5/30/2014 1:36 PM, woodchucker wrote:
>
>>
>> The nice thing about the steel wool is it will give you the sheen you
>> are looking for. It will knock down that plastic look somewhat. One
>> of the reasons I don't like poly, it looks like plastic. You can
>> again use wet dry in 600 and above to get the sheen, and finish with
>> steel wool, or just do it in steel wool. Again use a lube.. like
>> mineral oil. The paste wax won't offer protection above the poly, but it
>> might
>> give it the glow and feel that you are looking for. You can remove
>> it with mineral spirits if you don't like it.
>>
>
> Poly does not have to look like plastic, but it takes a little time.
>
> Three to four coats of polu
> Let cure three weeks
> Wet sand with 400
> Rub with pumice
> Rub with rottenstone
> Wax
>
> It will have a nice sheen and look very high quality.
You can do the very same thing in 24 hours
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
"Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> dadiOH wrote:
> > "Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]
> > > dadiOH wrote:
> > > > "Gramps' shop" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > > news:[email protected]
> > > > > I've just applied the sixth coat of semi-gloss and the piece is
> > > > > looking good. IIRC, the last time I used poly (maybe 15 years
> > > > > ago), I did a light pass with 0000 steel wood after the final coat
> > > > > just to smooth out the surface. Oui? And I have a nice can of
> > > > > Johnson paste wax. I'm thinking about a coat of Johnson after
> > > > > giving the poly a week to cure. Thoughts?
> > > > >
> > > > > Larry
> > > >
> > > > If this is oil base poly varnish, a week is insufficient. Wait at
> > > > least two weeks, preferably four. If/when you use the steel wool,
> > > > use it sufficiently to make a uniform looking surface - which is way
> > > > more than a light pass - then wax.
> > >
> > > Not sure I agree. With just one coat of poly, 24 hours is plenty
> > > more than sufficient. But... with multiple coats as described, then
> > > it's safe to assume more time to allow for hardening. That said -
> > > I'm not so sure that two weeks is required. It cannot hurt, but I'm
> > > just not convinced that it is required.
> >
> > It may be dry after 24 hours but "dry" and "cured" are two different
> > things. Heck, his semi-gloss is still going to be nearly as shiny as
> > glossy for at least 10 days.
> >
>
> Wrong. If his semi gloss looks glossy after 10 days then something is
> very wrong.
Nothing is wrong, just not cured. I just did one of my floors...three coats
semi-gloss, took two weeks for the shine to settle down.
_________________
> No more than one day to scuff for the second coat and no
> more than one day to handle.
He wasn't asking about scuffing.
_______________________
> It most certainly does not take 10 days to cure poly.
Actually, it is closer to 30 days.
__________________
> > If one sands a finish too early, one is removing more or less equal
> > amounts from both hills and valleys, "hills and valleys" being the
> > minute differences in the wood's surface. As the finish continues
> > curing, it continues to shrink...what was once smooth and flat no
> > longer is. IME.
>
> Have to completely disagree with this. I don't think you've actually
> observed your work if you make this statement. No matter when one sands,
> one is always going to sand the hills before the valleys. Too soon and
> yes - you can gum things up but at 24 hours you are well within any time
> requirement for sanding. Even in the humidity of summer.
Too soon and you sand the hills down flush with the valleys so all is nice
and even but the valleys have more finish, the finish there continues to
cure/shrink and you are back to hills and valleys. That is what I have
observed over the last 50 years or so. The same is true of any finish, glue
joints too.
--
dadiOH
____________________________
Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net
[email protected] wrote:
>
> Good post DadiOh. Dr. Marlow, don't confuse that high powered ultra
> hot specialized poly you shoot with the big box stuff going on a home
> project applied with a paint brush. With your experience and skill
> level in auto painting (a highly technical field when done right) you
> might be thinking the off the shelf products the average guy uses
> perform as well as your stuff. For example, I sometimes shoot a pre
> catalysed polyurethane conversion lacquer that you can recoat in 20
> minutes and get full adhesion, no sagging and no witness lines! Try
> that with Minwax, Bartlett's, General Finishes, ML Cambell, etc.
>
I make it a personal practice to defer to Robert on topics like this,
despite any first hand experiences I may have had, simply because he makes
it a point to investigate and really know what he talks about more than
anyone I have ever met. That said, my personal experiences do not stand up
at all to his, in finishes like this, so I make no claim that what worked
for me here and there, is a proven method. My experiences are that I wait
24 hours, scuff the first coat for adheasion purposes, and go the second
coat. I can't think of any time that I went with more than two coats. I'm
talking about your basic poly out of the can from the big box in my
comments.
> So, here's my take. To anyone reading this, remember what you paid
> for it.
>
> I don't sand between coat of poly unless it is to remove a nib or
> drip. NEVER. If you recoat when you should, you don't need to. I
> have never had a finish fail. Sand if you need to, but it isn't
> required. I have sanded between coats and it has caused me more
> heartburn that it is worth. Practice your application, learn your
> product carefully and you won't have to do it.
I have made this same statement in other discussions about finishing. Did
not in this one, but I agree.
>
> Using soap to sand between applied coats of anything but more soap is
> folly. Why would anyone use a surfactant product that is loaded with
> perfumes, dyes, oils, silicone and other chemicals to sand? This is
> an enormously easy way to foul your finishes. If you must sand, buy
> non-stearated paper to use. Steel wool has oils in it, and even the
> ones that don't will tend to break off the fibers (as designed) and
> leave them behind on your finish. If you cannot find non-stearated
> paper, find the very finest Scotch Brite pad you can get (white?) and
> use that.
I agree again. I'm big on introducing nothing to a finish that is not
absolutely necessary. In my world I call those things contaminents. I am
a big believer in Scotch Brite pads for scuffing though - unless I'm taking
out a sag or the likes, I only use these pads to scuff, no steel wool or
sandpaper. I generally use a grey pad but I have used my maroon pads when I
had nothing else. The poly fills those scratches well.
>
> You don't need more than three coats of poly. Each coat should be
> applied at a uniform 3 mil thickness, which will dry to a thickness
> of about 1 mil. (This is based on a precat product with 25 to 30%
> solids). Three coats will give you a final build of 3 mil, which is
> great for most tables, furniture, etc.
I might just have to finally surrendure on this point. Usually by the time
I've brushed on 2 coats I've had all I want to do with poly, and am happy to
call it good 'nuff...
>
> I have not put on a poly finish in years (remember Mike... not your
> stuff) that doesn't require 21 days as the magic number for full
> cure. Yes, green cure is in as little as 48 hours, but full strength
> isn't for much longer than that.
I agree with the full cure - and I probably should have been more specific
in my comments last night. I was just talking about scuffing for additional
coats at 24 hours.
> Mr. Marlow and I have talked about this aspect, too. It is soooo
> easy to call the manufacturer of a product and ask them any questions
> you have. Why rely on a bunch of guys you don't know? You might be
> getting advice from a guy that applies finish to a project every six
> months or longer, and uses product that is a couple of years old.
> That won't yield anything good. Every can has a tech support number
> these days and usually a tech guy on the ready. I call whenever I
> have a question about anything to do with their products and the
> manufacturers have always been glad that someone took the time to
> call them before starting their application as opposed to calling
> after they screw it up.
>
Yup - we have indeed talked about this. Such and easy and direct way to get
the right answers right up front. Sometimes even answers and advice on how
to use the product that are almost against the directions on the can. Not
that pushing a product like poly is likely going to be applicable for any of
us here, but there can be those times...
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 5/30/2014 11:19 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>> Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>>
>>> Poly does not have to look like plastic, but it takes a little time.
>>>
>>> Three to four coats of polu
>>> Let cure three weeks
>>> Wet sand with 400
>>> Rub with pumice
>>> Rub with rottenstone
>>> Wax
>>>
>>> It will have a nice sheen and look very high quality.
>>
>> You can do the very same thing in 24 hours
>>
>
> Maybe, but I prefer to wait until cured than just dry.
Perfectly fair - there's certainly no harm in doing so. In fact - for some
things it's better. Taking out sags for example. Way better to let them
fully cure and harden before working on them.
>
> You may be correct, but the opinions I've seen say 30 days are about
> 100 to 1 so I'm sticking with the masses for now. Maybe some day
> I'll do a test to be sure.
>
Like I said in a post this morning - I always defer to Robert's wisdom and
my own experiences are very limited compared to his. I scuff for recoats in
24 hours and I've never had a problem in doing so, but then again...
> These people tell you not to put rugs on a floor for 7 days. Why is
> that? http://www.myoldmasters.com/products-intclear-oilbasedpoly.htm
I fully agree with that, and the difference between hard and cured. I've
never had a problem scuffing in 24 hours, but I have never subjected the
product to pressure in so short a time.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 5/31/2014 2:04 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>
>>> Maybe, but I prefer to wait until cured than just dry.
>>
>> Perfectly fair - there's certainly no harm in doing so. In fact -
>> for some things it's better. Taking out sags for example. Way
>> better to let them fully cure and harden before working on them.
>>
>>>
>>> You may be correct, but the opinions I've seen say 30 days are about
>>> 100 to 1 so I'm sticking with the masses for now. Maybe some day
>>> I'll do a test to be sure.
>>>
>>
>> Like I said in a post this morning - I always defer to Robert's
>> wisdom and my own experiences are very limited compared to his. I
>> scuff for recoats in 24 hours and I've never had a problem in doing
>> so, but then again...
>
> Scuffing for a second coat I agree. I've done it in less time. If
> I'm going to do a full sanding and rubbing out, I'm going to wait.
Yes - I agree. There appears to have been a misunderstanding on that
point - and that misunderstanding may have been on my part. If so -
sorry...
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
[email protected] wrote:
> On Saturday, May 31, 2014 6:51:06 PM UTC-5, Mike Marlow wrote:
>
>> Yes - I agree. There appears to have been a misunderstanding on that
>>
>> point - and that misunderstanding may have been on my part. If so -
>>
>> sorry...
>
>> -Mike-
>
> I didn't see anything to be sorry about, Mike. You know as well as I
> do that there are so many conditions and individual product
> idiosyncrasies that all that can be done here is some good general
> advice. I would CERTAINLY take heed to yours, and you would be the
> first one I would call if I thought I might get bold enough to paint
> an auto (NOT likely!).
>
> And... let's not forget who nudged me into actually spraying poly
> when I wouldn't touch it. (Hint: Initials MM.)
>
> It's all good. I always respect those that have practical, hand-on
> experience that are kind enough to put their knowledge out there to
> share. While my experience may not agree on any given subject, that
> certainly doesn't mean mine is the only way. That's how we learn
> from one another, right?
>
Ya know... some day I'm gonna find my way to get my ass down to Texas and
I'm gonna let Robert buy me a beer...
x
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
Swingman wrote:
> On 6/1/2014 7:22 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>> [email protected] wrote:
>>
>> Ya know... some day I'm gonna find my way to get my ass down to
>> Texas and I'm gonna let Robert buy me a beer...
>
> Hope you like a good whiskey and cigar ... it probably won't be a
> beer. ;)
Ok - if you insist, but if the truth were to be told, it would be a
cigarette and a coke, but what the hell - we can pretend...
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
On 5/30/2014 1:36 PM, woodchucker wrote:
>
> The nice thing about the steel wool is it will give you the sheen you
> are looking for. It will knock down that plastic look somewhat. One of
> the reasons I don't like poly, it looks like plastic. You can again use
> wet dry in 600 and above to get the sheen, and finish with steel wool,
> or just do it in steel wool. Again use a lube.. like mineral oil.
>
> The paste wax won't offer protection above the poly, but it might give
> it the glow and feel that you are looking for. You can remove it with
> mineral spirits if you don't like it.
>
Poly does not have to look like plastic, but it takes a little time.
Three to four coats of polu
Let cure three weeks
Wet sand with 400
Rub with pumice
Rub with rottenstone
Wax
It will have a nice sheen and look very high quality.
On 5/31/2014 2:04 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>> Maybe, but I prefer to wait until cured than just dry.
>
> Perfectly fair - there's certainly no harm in doing so. In fact - for some
> things it's better. Taking out sags for example. Way better to let them
> fully cure and harden before working on them.
>
>>
>> You may be correct, but the opinions I've seen say 30 days are about
>> 100 to 1 so I'm sticking with the masses for now. Maybe some day
>> I'll do a test to be sure.
>>
>
> Like I said in a post this morning - I always defer to Robert's wisdom and
> my own experiences are very limited compared to his. I scuff for recoats in
> 24 hours and I've never had a problem in doing so, but then again...
>
Scuffing for a second coat I agree. I've done it in less time. If I'm
going to do a full sanding and rubbing out, I'm going to wait.
On 5/30/2014 11:19 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>
>> Poly does not have to look like plastic, but it takes a little time.
>>
>> Three to four coats of polu
>> Let cure three weeks
>> Wet sand with 400
>> Rub with pumice
>> Rub with rottenstone
>> Wax
>>
>> It will have a nice sheen and look very high quality.
>
> You can do the very same thing in 24 hours
>
Maybe, but I prefer to wait until cured than just dry.
You may be correct, but the opinions I've seen say 30 days are about 100
to 1 so I'm sticking with the masses for now. Maybe some day I'll do a
test to be sure.
These people tell you not to put rugs on a floor for 7 days. Why is that?
http://www.myoldmasters.com/products-intclear-oilbasedpoly.htm