In article <[email protected]>, Larry Jaques
<jake@di\/ersify.com> wrote:
> Keeter and his damned OWWMs, no doubt.
LOL!
Reports today are blaming it on Ohio, tho...
djb
--
------
WOMD?
http://www.coxandforkum.com/archives/000140.html
In article <[email protected]>, Renata
<[email protected]> wrote:
> Apparently 3 transmission lines in Ohio went down after at least one
> touched a tree, last I read. That started the cascade. What they're
> baffled about is why the problem (line) wasn't isolated immediately.
In this morning's paper, apparently the Ohio plant is reporting
imbalances beginning several hours before the cascade. It'll be a while
before we know what actually triggered this "event".
Interesting that Quebec wasn't affected. I haven't seen much in the way
of details, but apparently their connection to the grid is buffered
using DC power in some way so they stayed safe.
djb
--
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WOMD?
<http://www.coxandforkum.com/archives/000140.html>
In article
<[email protected]>, Upscale
<[email protected]> wrote:
> I believe Quebec has their own power grid, separate from the one that
> affected Ontario and the North Eastern United States.
Separate, but connected.
djb
--
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WOMD?
<http://www.coxandforkum.com/archives/000140.html>
Candles and curlies in a semi-dark room AND
the phones probably not working for calling
the fire department if/when latter makes
contact with the former. Hope you had four
or five buckets of sand on hand in the event
of a fire (I understand some of the water
pumping stations went down).
Why is it that when we in California had rolling
blackouts (and energy price gouging) it was because
we're F**k UPs and it's not the Fed's problem.
BUT when a hunk of the northeast goes dark and
the STOCK MARKET goes out - freakin' A, call in
the national guard, declare an emergency and
open your wallet folks ...?
charlie b
PS - Anyone catch Wag The Dog lately?
snip
Dave Balderstone wrote:
> Interesting that Quebec wasn't affected. I haven't seen much in the way
> of details, but apparently their connection to the grid is buffered
> using DC power in some way so they stayed safe.
> djb
Can you say "Seperatist"? What about with a Frech accent? %-)
Dave in Fairfax
--
reply-to doesn't work
use:
daveldr at att dot net
Apparently 3 transmission lines in Ohio went down after at least one
touched a tree, last I read. That started the cascade. What they're
baffled about is why the problem (line) wasn't isolated immediately.
Apparently, had some station near Philly not isolated itself from the
cascade, the blackout coulda spread as far as the Rockies.
Renata
On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 00:06:35 GMT, Dave Balderstone
<dave***@balderstone.ca> wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>, Larry Jaques
><jake@di\/ersify.com> wrote:
>
>> Keeter and his damned OWWMs, no doubt.
>
>LOL!
>
>Reports today are blaming it on Ohio, tho...
>
>djb
>
>--
>------
>WOMD?
>http://www.coxandforkum.com/archives/000140.html
On Tue, 26 Aug 2003 16:41:49 GMT, [email protected] (Doug Miller)
wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>, "Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>"charlieb" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]...
>>> Why is it that when we in California had rolling
>>> blackouts (and energy price gouging) it was because
>>> we're F**k UPs and it's not the Fed's problem.
>>> BUT when a hunk of the northeast goes dark and
>>> the STOCK MARKET goes out - freakin' A, call in
>>
>>Wasn't the problem in California blamed on deregulation? The problem in the
>>northeast was blamed on technical difficulties (so far). Of course, the way
>>it's set up, the system could be considered F**ked Up anyway. So, take your
>>choice.
>
>The problem in California was blamed on a lot of things, but the real cause
>was that the state legislature set an upper limit on the retail price of
>electricity that turned out in some cases to be lower than the cost of
>producing it.
>
>--
>Regards,
> Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
Yes, yes, Enron and it's ilk had absoltively nuuu-thing to do with it.
Perhaps you put your politics in a "safe" place for a bit, and maybe
read the rest of the story.
The problem in the NE hasn't been figured out yet as they're not sure
why it cascaded like it did, extending to NY and around the "loop"
(last I read). But, one major problem (aside for reason behind above)
is a lack of transmission lines (among a host of others). Seems no
one wants to pay for them cause they're not large revenue generators
or sumptin'.
Renata
Where did I say anything about production?
I really think you oughta go join the team looking into this
situation. You're obviously way ahead of them in terms of problem
resolution.
Renata
On Wed, 27 Aug 2003 13:19:30 GMT, "George"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Go do some research. You might look less foolish.
>
>Distribution was instantly confirmed as the problem, not production.
>Distribution is regulated, and at several levels, where, as you might
>discover even by reading news coverage, different state, provincial and
>regional standards apply.
>
>"Renata" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> You know me about as well as you know the cause of the problem. WHy
>> don't you go up and offer your knowledge about the "cause" of the
>> blackout 'cause the folks investigating it haven't figured it out yet
>> and you're obviously ahead of their game.
>
>
actually, I was watching TV today, and the mayor of New York was
claiming it was CANADA's fault . . .
oh well. . .
~R~
a canuck
On Fri, 15 Aug 2003 23:35:37 GMT, Dave Balderstone
<dave***@balderstone.ca> wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>, charlieb
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Why is it that when we in California had rolling
>> blackouts (and energy price gouging) it was because
>> we're F**k UPs and it's not the Fed's problem.
>> BUT when a hunk of the northeast goes dark and
>> the STOCK MARKET goes out - freakin' A, call in
>> the national guard, declare an emergency and
>> open your wallet folks ...?
>
>Hey, it's *still* California's fault...
>
><http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?ID=3028>
>
>;-)
>
>djb
"Dave Balderstone" <dave***@balderstone.ca> wrote in message
news:180820030808292206%dave***@balderstone.ca...
> In article <[email protected]>, Renata
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> Interesting that Quebec wasn't affected. I haven't seen much in the way
> of details, but apparently their connection to the grid is buffered
> using DC power in some way so they stayed safe.
I believe Quebec has their own power grid, separate from the one that
affected Ontario and the North Eastern United States.
With the price of electricity in California at rip-off prices there is not
much chance of a blackout. ;<) Jim-A
"charlieb" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Candles and curlies in a semi-dark room AND
> the phones probably not working for calling
> the fire department if/when latter makes
> contact with the former. Hope you had four
> or five buckets of sand on hand in the event
> of a fire (I understand some of the water
> pumping stations went down).
>
> Why is it that when we in California had rolling
> blackouts (and energy price gouging) it was because
> we're F**k UPs and it's not the Fed's problem.
> BUT when a hunk of the northeast goes dark and
> the STOCK MARKET goes out - freakin' A, call in
> the national guard, declare an emergency and
> open your wallet folks ...?
>
> charlie b
> PS - Anyone catch Wag The Dog lately?
I never thought that it was a "f&&kup" in CA, but I don't think it is anyone
else's fault at all. Rolling blackouts are a lot different than a sudden
power outage. At least there you probably have some for-warning that it
will happen. Still, neither situation is at all acceptable, and hopefully
something will get done to improve the systems everywhere.
Mike
--
There are no stupid questions.
There are a LOT of inquisitive idiots.
"charlieb" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Candles and curlies in a semi-dark room AND
> the phones probably not working for calling
> the fire department if/when latter makes
> contact with the former. Hope you had four
> or five buckets of sand on hand in the event
> of a fire (I understand some of the water
> pumping stations went down).
>
> Why is it that when we in California had rolling
> blackouts (and energy price gouging) it was because
> we're F**k UPs and it's not the Fed's problem.
> BUT when a hunk of the northeast goes dark and
> the STOCK MARKET goes out - freakin' A, call in
> the national guard, declare an emergency and
> open your wallet folks ...?
>
> charlie b
> PS - Anyone catch Wag The Dog lately?
>
"charlieb" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Why is it that when we in California had rolling
> blackouts (and energy price gouging) it was because
> we're F**k UPs and it's not the Fed's problem.
> BUT when a hunk of the northeast goes dark and
> the STOCK MARKET goes out - freakin' A, call in
Wasn't the problem in California blamed on deregulation? The problem in the
northeast was blamed on technical difficulties (so far). Of course, the way
it's set up, the system could be considered F**ked Up anyway. So, take your
choice.
Just to keep the conversation on topic, the six hours the power was off, I
spent thumbing through my dog eared Lee Valley catalogue making modifying my
wish list. At least that's what I did until it got too dark to see.
Not that you care much for reality, but only _production_ has been
deregulated. Transmission is still heavily regulated, and PSCs have made it
difficult to recoup repair costs, let alone expansion. The problem was a
_transmission_ problem.
Though where could they expand? Try to get a right-of-way for energy
transmission (or production) of any kind through the endless regulation and
protests of people like Renata.
"Renata" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Tue, 26 Aug 2003 16:41:49 GMT, [email protected] (Doug Miller)
> wrote:
>
> >>
> >>Wasn't the problem in California blamed on deregulation? The problem in
the
> >>northeast was blamed on technical difficulties (so far). Of course, the
way
> >>it's set up, the system could be considered F**ked Up anyway. So, take
your
> >>choice.
> >
> >The problem in California was blamed on a lot of things, but the real
cause
> >was that the state legislature set an upper limit on the retail price of
> >electricity that turned out in some cases to be lower than the cost of
> >producing it.
> >
> >--
> >Regards,
> > Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
>
> Yes, yes, Enron and it's ilk had absoltively nuuu-thing to do with it.
>
> Perhaps you put your politics in a "safe" place for a bit, and maybe
> read the rest of the story.
>
> The problem in the NE hasn't been figured out yet as they're not sure
> why it cascaded like it did, extending to NY and around the "loop"
> (last I read). But, one major problem (aside for reason behind above)
> is a lack of transmission lines (among a host of others). Seems no
> one wants to pay for them cause they're not large revenue generators
> or sumptin'.
>
> Renata
"Dave Balderstone" <dave***@balderstone.ca> wrote in message
news:150820032309135804%dave***@balderstone.ca...
> I imagine it'll be a few days before we know what happened. I've heard
> about 6 or 7 possibles so far.
>
> djb
When that many *events* occur in a 10 second time slot, it's going to take a
while to sort it out. One group is saying that a *midwest* plant started it
all with wild fluctuations that the rest of the grid couldn't balance or
control, and to preserve themselves, the other plants automatically tripped
off. We were without power for about 3 hr. that evening here in Jamestown,
NY, but this was over 2 hr. AFTER the main blackout. We have our own city
power plant, so it must have held it's own for a while until the grid tried
sucking power from us(I think).
Who knows?
Nahmie
Well, it IS California.
"charlieb" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Why is it that when we in California had rolling
> blackouts (and energy price gouging) it was because
> we're F**k UPs and it's not the Fed's problem.
> BUT when a hunk of the northeast goes dark and
> the STOCK MARKET goes out - freakin' A, call in
> the national guard, declare an emergency and
> open your wallet folks ...?
>
> charlie b
> PS - Anyone catch Wag The Dog lately?
Who said the initial reply was to your post?
"Renata" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Where did I say anything about production?
>
> I really think you oughta go join the team looking into this
> situation. You're obviously way ahead of them in terms of problem
> resolution.
>
> Renata
>
> On Wed, 27 Aug 2003 13:19:30 GMT, "George"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Go do some research. You might look less foolish.
> >
> >Distribution was instantly confirmed as the problem, not production.
> >Distribution is regulated, and at several levels, where, as you might
> >discover even by reading news coverage, different state, provincial and
> >regional standards apply.
> >
> >"Renata" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >news:[email protected]...
> >> You know me about as well as you know the cause of the problem. WHy
> >> don't you go up and offer your knowledge about the "cause" of the
> >> blackout 'cause the folks investigating it haven't figured it out yet
> >> and you're obviously ahead of their game.
> >
> >
>
[email protected] wrote:
>> of details, but apparently their connection to the grid is buffered
>> using DC power in some way so they stayed safe.
>> djb
>
> Can you say "Seperatist"? What about with a Frech accent? %-)
Séparatiste...
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
Confirmed post number: 17252 Approximate word count: 517560
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In article <[email protected]>, "Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote:
>"charlieb" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> Why is it that when we in California had rolling
>> blackouts (and energy price gouging) it was because
>> we're F**k UPs and it's not the Fed's problem.
>> BUT when a hunk of the northeast goes dark and
>> the STOCK MARKET goes out - freakin' A, call in
>
>Wasn't the problem in California blamed on deregulation? The problem in the
>northeast was blamed on technical difficulties (so far). Of course, the way
>it's set up, the system could be considered F**ked Up anyway. So, take your
>choice.
The problem in California was blamed on a lot of things, but the real cause
was that the state legislature set an upper limit on the retail price of
electricity that turned out in some cases to be lower than the cost of
producing it.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
charlieb wrote:
> Why is it that when we in California had rolling
> blackouts (and energy price gouging) it was because
> we're F**k UPs and it's not the Fed's problem.
> BUT when a hunk of the northeast goes dark and
> the STOCK MARKET goes out - freakin' A, call in
> the national guard, declare an emergency and
> open your wallet folks ...?
You want a totally honest answer?
Nah, you probably don't want an honest answer. ;)
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
Confirmed post number: 17204 Approximate word count: 516120
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 05:09:16 GMT, Dave Balderstone
<dave***@balderstone.ca> pixelated:
>In article <[email protected]>, Robert Medal
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> actually, I was watching TV today, and the mayor of New York was
>> claiming it was CANADA's fault . . .
>
>I saw that too. The WP is reporting the cause is still unknown but
>"likely began in the Midwest"...
Keeter and his damned OWWMs, no doubt.
-
Press HERE to arm. (Release to detonate.)
-----------
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"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> The problem in California was blamed on a lot of things, but the real
cause
> was that the state legislature set an upper limit on the retail price of
> electricity that turned out in some cases to be lower than the cost of
> producing it.
Hah! That's essentially what premier Ernie Eves has done in Ontario. First
he deregulated Ontario hydro and then he's fixed the electricity rate at a
money losing level. His provincial government is subsidising it at an
unrealistically low level which has to eventually be passed onto the tax
payers. Give to the taxpayers in one form and take more out of their pocket
in another form; gullible lot the taxpayers are.
charlieb <[email protected]> wrote:
[snip]
>Why is it that when we in California had rolling
>blackouts (and energy price gouging) it was because
>we're F**k UPs and it's not the Fed's problem.
>BUT when a hunk of the northeast goes dark and
>the STOCK MARKET goes out - freakin' A, call in
>the national guard, declare an emergency and
>open your wallet folks ...?
>
>charlie b
>PS - Anyone catch Wag The Dog lately?
Naw, you got it wrong. The electric outage was created by east coast
liberals in suport of Gray Davis. That way he can point and say he
dealt with the problem and the east coast hasn't. There is a vast
left wing conspiricy.
Wes
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"CW" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> PS - Anyone catch Wag The Dog lately?
I did during Clintons term and it looked like art imitating life. I
keep it in mind when evaluating all government actions, even the guys
I tend to support.
Wes
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