kk

krw

01/11/2009 7:16 PM

Case of the overgrown insert?


Anyone have a clue why a zero-clearance insert would suddenly grow too
big to fit in the table? The insert I use for dadoing no longer fits
the saw opening. I grabbed an unused, though otherwise identical
insert, and it fits just like it was meant to. I ended up making
another dado insert, wasting a $20 blank. :-( These blanks were from
Woodcraft, BTW.


This topic has 46 replies

LH

"Lew Hodgett"

in reply to krw on 01/11/2009 7:16 PM

01/11/2009 5:28 PM


"krw" wrote:

> Anyone have a clue why a zero-clearance insert would suddenly grow
> too
> big to fit in the table? The insert I use for dadoing no longer
> fits
> the saw opening. I grabbed an unused, though otherwise identical
> insert, and it fits just like it was meant to. I ended up making
> another dado insert, wasting a $20 blank. :-( These blanks were
> from
> Woodcraft, BTW.

Don't have a clue, but why not spend a little time with a file or some
sandpaper and rework till it fits?

BTW, cold day in hell when I'd spend $5, much less $20 for a T/S
insert.

At least not as along as I had 1/4 hardboard scraps, double back tape,
a router and some C-Clamps.

Lew


LH

"Lew Hodgett"

in reply to krw on 01/11/2009 7:16 PM

02/11/2009 4:34 PM


"Nonny" wrote:

> In business, we taught what was called the 80% rule. Essentially,
> 20% of the time/cost/effort will result in 80% of the desired goal.
> The remaining 20% will take all the rest of the resources.

Basic law of statistics.

70-30 and 90-10 are other variations.

Lew


kk

krw

in reply to krw on 01/11/2009 7:16 PM

01/11/2009 8:17 PM

On Sun, 1 Nov 2009 17:49:13 -0800 (PST), RicodJour
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Nov 1, 8:39 pm, krw <[email protected]> wrote:
>> "Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >BTW, cold day in hell when I'd spend $5, much less $20 for a T/S
>> >insert.
>>
>> They were on sale.  They're now $24.95 in their catalog.  ;-)
>>
>> >At least not as along as I had 1/4 hardboard scraps, double back tape,
>> >a router and some C-Clamps.
>>
>> When I get time in the shop I'd rather make something more interesting
>> than a table saw insert.  Getting them to fit well takes time I'd
>> rather spend doing something else.  
>
>Like fiddling with a store bought insert that doesn't fit?

It certainly *DID* fit. It wouldn't have had the dado silhouette in
it if it hadn't. It's brother still fit.

u

in reply to krw on 01/11/2009 7:16 PM

02/11/2009 3:40 AM

On Sun, 1 Nov 2009 18:48:40 -0800 (PST), RicodJour
<[email protected]> wrote:

>said, the double stick tape makes knocking them out trivial. Five or
>six at a time. What's that in store bought dollars?

Just out of interest's sake, what's the popular method for getting
those inserts to sit level with the tablesaw top? My danged tablesaw
insert cavity has a certain depth that defies my finding some wood or
other material making insert construction easy.

Rr

RicodJour

in reply to krw on 01/11/2009 7:16 PM

02/11/2009 1:07 PM

On Nov 2, 3:40=A0pm, Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Nov 2, 3:23=A0pm, RicodJour <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Nov 2, 12:51=A0pm, Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > On Nov 2, 11:57=A0am, RicodJour <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > On Nov 2, 9:22=A0am, "dadiOH" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > > krw wrote:
> > > > > > Anyone have a clue why a zero-clearance insert would suddenly g=
row too
> > > > > > big to fit in the table?
>
> > > > > Did your saw get really, really, *REALLY* cold? =A0:)
>
> > > > Wouldn't the insert hole get bigger if the saw got cold?
>
> > > nope
>
> > You mean the air within the insert perimeter is shrinking with the
> > cold, and the metal around it is expanding to make up the difference?
>
>
> The metal wouldn't be expanding.

Exactly my point. So if all of the metal around the hole is
shrinking, why is the hole getting smaller? The shrinkage takes place
in the cast iron, right?

R

Ns

"Nonny"

in reply to krw on 01/11/2009 7:16 PM

02/11/2009 2:04 PM


"Steve Turner" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Nonny wrote:
>>
>> "-MIKE-" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> Just about every jig I see in the shop was built because I
>>> looked
>>> on-line or in a catalog, and my first reaction was,
>>> "HOW much!? Geez, I can *make* that."
>>
>> I never tossed out a jig, unless it was just cobbled together
>> for a single use and then taken back apart and tossed back in
>> the bucket with other pieces. If the jig was something I would
>> reuse, such as one I built for over the table sander to bevel
>> the edges of coasters, then it was stored on a shelf for reuse.
>> Those are the ones that built up over the years.
>
> Yes, but did you think to *write* on the jig a description of
> why the hell you built it in the first place? I can't think of
> how many times I've pulled some old jig out of storage and have
> no earthly clue what I used it for... :-)
>
> --
> See Nad. See Nad go. Go Nad!
> To reply, eat the taco.
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

darn good point.

--
Nonny

Have you ever wondered if the bills
in your wallet were ever in a stripper's butt crack?
Have a nice day ..


Rr

RicodJour

in reply to krw on 01/11/2009 7:16 PM

02/11/2009 12:23 PM

On Nov 2, 12:51=A0pm, Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Nov 2, 11:57=A0am, RicodJour <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > On Nov 2, 9:22=A0am, "dadiOH" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > krw wrote:
> > > > Anyone have a clue why a zero-clearance insert would suddenly grow =
too
> > > > big to fit in the table?
>
> > > Did your saw get really, really, *REALLY* cold? =A0:)
>
> > Wouldn't the insert hole get bigger if the saw got cold?
>
>
> nope

You mean the air within the insert perimeter is shrinking with the
cold, and the metal around it is expanding to make up the difference?

R

dd

"dadiOH"

in reply to krw on 01/11/2009 7:16 PM

02/11/2009 4:19 PM

RicodJour wrote:
> On Nov 2, 9:22 am, "dadiOH" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> krw wrote:
>>> Anyone have a clue why a zero-clearance insert would suddenly grow
>>> too big to fit in the table?
>>
>> Did your saw get really, really, *REALLY* cold? :)
>
> Wouldn't the insert hole get bigger if the saw got cold?
>
> R

Beats me. I had a brass ring that got smaller when I heated it. Or did it
get bigger? No, smaller...I wanted it bigger and it wouldn't do what I
wanted. My brass and OP's saw are in the twilight zone :)

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico


LZ

Luigi Zanasi

in reply to krw on 01/11/2009 7:16 PM

02/11/2009 8:21 AM

On Nov 2, 12:51=A0am, Greg G.<[email protected]> wrote:
> [email protected] said:
>
> >On Sun, 1 Nov 2009 18:48:40 -0800 (PST), RicodJour
> ><[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >>said, the double stick tape makes knocking them out trivial. =A0Five or
> >>six at a time. =A0What's that in store bought dollars?
>
> >Just out of interest's sake, what's the popular method for getting
> >those inserts to sit level with the tablesaw top? My danged tablesaw
> >insert cavity has a certain depth that defies my finding some wood or
> >other material making insert construction easy.
>
> I use 1/2" ply and thread 4 allen head set-screws into it over each
> saw table leveling boss. A 3/8" brass rod out the rear hooks the
> sawtop lip to prevent the blade from lifting the insert and throwing
> it through the wall. Inexpensive saws may not have leveling bosses
> (i.e. Delta 32-600 and some Craftsman).

I do the same except with 1/2" Lexan.

Luigi

Ns

"Nonny"

in reply to krw on 01/11/2009 7:16 PM

02/11/2009 11:09 AM


"-MIKE-" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Morris Dovey wrote:
>> -MIKE- wrote:
>>
>>> I wonder of there's a correlation between the skill
>>> level/experience of
>>> a woodworker and how many shop-made (as opposed to store
>>> bought)
>>> jigs they have.
>>
>> I think there might be a stronger correlation between number of
>> shop-made jigs and size of the tool budget. :)
>>
>
> That's probably much more accurate. :-)
>
> Personally, if time isn't the first motivator (as in, I don't
> have even
> ten minutes to go buy this thing), price is.
>
> Just about every jig I see in the shop was built because I
> looked
> on-line or in a catalog, and my first reaction was,
> "HOW much!? Geez, I can *make* that."
>
>
> --
>
> -MIKE-
>
> "Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in
> life"
> --Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
> --
> http://mikedrums.com
> [email protected]
> ---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

I never tossed out a jig, unless it was just cobbled together for
a single use and then taken back apart and tossed back in the
bucket with other pieces. If the jig was something I would reuse,
such as one I built for over the table sander to bevel the edges
of coasters, then it was stored on a shelf for reuse. Those are
the ones that built up over the years.

--
Nonny

Have you ever wondered if the bills
in your wallet were ever in a stripper's butt crack?
Have a nice day ..


Rr

RicodJour

in reply to krw on 01/11/2009 7:16 PM

01/11/2009 6:48 PM

On Nov 1, 9:17=A0pm, krw <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Sun, 1 Nov 2009 17:49:13 -0800 (PST), RicodJour
>
>
>
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >On Nov 1, 8:39=A0pm, krw <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> "Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >> >BTW, cold day in hell when I'd spend $5, much less $20 for a T/S
> >> >insert.
>
> >> They were on sale. =A0They're now $24.95 in their catalog. =A0;-)
>
> >> >At least not as along as I had 1/4 hardboard scraps, double back tape=
,
> >> >a router and some C-Clamps.
>
> >> When I get time in the shop I'd rather make something more interesting
> >> than a table saw insert. =A0Getting them to fit well takes time I'd
> >> rather spend doing something else. =A0
>
> >Like fiddling with a store bought insert that doesn't fit?
>
> It certainly *DID* fit. =A0It wouldn't have had the dado silhouette in
> it if it hadn't. =A0It's brother still fit. =A0

I don't understand. Making inserts is not a big deal and it doesn't
take a lot of time. A router, a template, zip zip zip. And there
wouldn't be any question of the thing growing or shrinking. Like Lew
said, the double stick tape makes knocking them out trivial. Five or
six at a time. What's that in store bought dollars?

In any event I have no idea what happened to your insert unless you
got it wet. Contact Woodgraft...errr, Woodcraft and express your
disappointment. They'll probably send you a new one.

R

dd

"dadiOH"

in reply to krw on 01/11/2009 7:16 PM

02/11/2009 9:20 AM

Lew Hodgett wrote:
> "krw" wrote:
>
>> Anyone have a clue why a zero-clearance insert would suddenly grow
>> too
>> big to fit in the table? The insert I use for dadoing no longer
>> fits
>> the saw opening. I grabbed an unused, though otherwise identical
>> insert, and it fits just like it was meant to. I ended up making
>> another dado insert, wasting a $20 blank. :-( These blanks were
>> from
>> Woodcraft, BTW.
>
> Don't have a clue, but why not spend a little time with a file or some
> sandpaper and rework till it fits?
>
> BTW, cold day in hell when I'd spend $5, much less $20 for a T/S
> insert.
>
> At least not as along as I had 1/4 hardboard scraps, double back tape,
> a router and some C-Clamps.
>
> Lew

I'm with you.

I browse through the wood working catalogs and am amazed by the number of
things for sale - and which, apparently, are frequently purchased - which
anyone could easily make for themselves.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico


u

in reply to krw on 01/11/2009 7:16 PM

02/11/2009 10:20 PM

On Mon, 2 Nov 2009 11:54:22 -0800 (PST), Robatoy
>I like a tool that dims the lights at turn-on....of the whole town.

Is that the equivalent of one woodworker saying to all the other
woodworkers in the area that his tool is bigger then theirs?

dd

"dadiOH"

in reply to krw on 01/11/2009 7:16 PM

02/11/2009 9:22 AM

krw wrote:
> Anyone have a clue why a zero-clearance insert would suddenly grow too
> big to fit in the table?


Did your saw get really, really, *REALLY* cold? :)

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico


ww

whit3rd

in reply to krw on 01/11/2009 7:16 PM

02/11/2009 11:33 AM

On Nov 2, 9:57=A0am, -MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:
> dadiOH wrote:

> > I browse through the wood working catalogs and am amazed by the number =
of
> > things for sale - and which, apparently, are frequently purchased - whi=
ch
> > anyone could easily make for themselves.
>
> I wonder of there's a correlation between the skill level/experience of
> a woodworker and how many shop-made (as opposed to store bought)
> jigs they have.

It's the custom-kitchen effect! When a task intimidates (like,
cooking
for a critical audience), it's easy to put it off by claiming one
needs
a six-burner gas stove, or marble countertops, or somesuch.

So, the building trades grow a tumor that caters to high-end kitchen
afficianados. The customers don't have to perform in the cookroom
until the renovations are "complete" ... and completion, magically,
doesn't happen quickly. The custom-kitchen builder caters to his
audience by working slowly and avoiding completion (but the
check-cashing part has to be quick and final, of course).

If woodwork isn't intimidating, you get a knife and a block of wood,
and have at it. Then you add chisels and a bench, and saws are
too useful to do without. The unintimidated woodworker always
has a knife nearby. He's comfortable watching Roy Underhill,
but could learn a lot from Norm Abram.

The intimidated woodworker needs an extra horsepower and
deeper bandsaw throat, and often treats the wood as if it
was homogeneous (he didn't do a lot of knife work, so doesn't
completely understand grain). He's comfortable watching
Norm, but could learn a lot from Roy.

u

in reply to krw on 01/11/2009 7:16 PM

02/11/2009 12:09 PM

On Mon, 2 Nov 2009 08:57:29 -0800 (PST), RicodJour
<[email protected]> wrote:

>> Did your saw get really, really, *REALLY* cold? ?:)

>Wouldn't the insert hole get bigger if the saw got cold?

Think "pucker" as most holes do when it gets cold. :)

Rr

RicodJour

in reply to krw on 01/11/2009 7:16 PM

02/11/2009 6:11 AM

On Nov 2, 7:31=A0am, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Greg G." <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > [email protected] said:
>
> > I use 1/2" ply and thread 4 allen head set-screws into it over each
> > saw table leveling boss. A 3/8" brass rod out the rear hooks the
> > sawtop lip to prevent the blade from lifting the insert and throwing
> > it through the wall. Inexpensive saws may not have leveling bosses
> > (i.e. Delta 32-600 and some Craftsman).
>
> I simply used 4, 3/8" long #6 flat head screws. =A0They will screw flush =
on
> the bottom side if needed. and no pre drilling needed. =A0Because they ne=
ver
> needed to be readjusted being on the bottom side is not really a draw bac=
k.

I don't use anything but a zero clearance insert I made and don't find
this to be a problem. I epoxied washers in place. There's no stress
on 'em - just trying to keep them from sliding. After that the
inserts are all uniform.

R

jj

jo4hn

in reply to krw on 01/11/2009 7:16 PM

02/11/2009 2:22 PM

Steve Turner wrote:
> Nonny wrote:
>>
>> "-MIKE-" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> Just about every jig I see in the shop was built because I looked
>>> on-line or in a catalog, and my first reaction was,
>>> "HOW much!? Geez, I can *make* that."
>>
>> I never tossed out a jig, unless it was just cobbled together for a
>> single use and then taken back apart and tossed back in the bucket
>> with other pieces. If the jig was something I would reuse, such as
>> one I built for over the table sander to bevel the edges of coasters,
>> then it was stored on a shelf for reuse. Those are the ones that
>> built up over the years.
>
> Yes, but did you think to *write* on the jig a description of why the
> hell you built it in the first place? I can't think of how many times
> I've pulled some old jig out of storage and have no earthly clue what I
> used it for... :-)
>
Ayup. It's a classic case of a dollar late and a day short. Or
something like that. Oh well, at the rate that I get smarter, I will be
a certified genius in less that 400 years. |~/
twitch,
jo4hn

Rc

Robatoy

in reply to krw on 01/11/2009 7:16 PM

02/11/2009 12:40 PM

On Nov 2, 3:23=A0pm, RicodJour <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Nov 2, 12:51=A0pm, Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > On Nov 2, 11:57=A0am, RicodJour <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > On Nov 2, 9:22=A0am, "dadiOH" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > krw wrote:
> > > > > Anyone have a clue why a zero-clearance insert would suddenly gro=
w too
> > > > > big to fit in the table?
>
> > > > Did your saw get really, really, *REALLY* cold? =A0:)
>
> > > Wouldn't the insert hole get bigger if the saw got cold?
>
> > nope
>
> You mean the air within the insert perimeter is shrinking with the
> cold, and the metal around it is expanding to make up the difference?
>
> R

The metal wouldn't be expanding.

Rc

Robatoy

in reply to krw on 01/11/2009 7:16 PM

02/11/2009 11:54 AM

On Nov 2, 2:48=A0pm, -MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:

>
> But I also like the sense of "being there" I get from having and using a
> great tool.
> One appreciates having nice tools and what they do for you much more,
> when one has had to do it with less.
>

I like a tool that dims the lights at turn-on....of the whole town.

Rc

Robatoy

in reply to krw on 01/11/2009 7:16 PM

01/11/2009 5:55 PM

On Nov 1, 8:49=A0pm, RicodJour <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Nov 1, 8:39=A0pm, krw <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > "Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > >BTW, cold day in hell when I'd spend $5, much less $20 for a T/S
> > >insert.
>
> > They were on sale. =A0They're now $24.95 in their catalog. =A0;-)
>
> > >At least not as along as I had 1/4 hardboard scraps, double back tape,
> > >a router and some C-Clamps.
>
> > When I get time in the shop I'd rather make something more interesting
> > than a table saw insert. =A0Getting them to fit well takes time I'd
> > rather spend doing something else. =A0
>
> Like fiddling with a store bought insert that doesn't fit?
>
> R

*wiping monitor*

Rc

Robatoy

in reply to krw on 01/11/2009 7:16 PM

02/11/2009 9:51 AM

On Nov 2, 11:57=A0am, RicodJour <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Nov 2, 9:22=A0am, "dadiOH" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > krw wrote:
> > > Anyone have a clue why a zero-clearance insert would suddenly grow to=
o
> > > big to fit in the table?
>
> > Did your saw get really, really, *REALLY* cold? =A0:)
>
> Wouldn't the insert hole get bigger if the saw got cold?
>
> R

nope

Ns

"Nonny"

in reply to krw on 01/11/2009 7:16 PM

02/11/2009 2:02 PM


"-MIKE-" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> whit3rd wrote:
>> If woodwork isn't intimidating, you get a knife and a block of
>> wood,
>> and have at it. Then you add chisels and a bench, and saws are
>> too useful to do without. The unintimidated woodworker always
>> has a knife nearby. He's comfortable watching Roy Underhill,
>> but could learn a lot from Norm Abram.
>>
>> The intimidated woodworker needs an extra horsepower and
>> deeper bandsaw throat, and often treats the wood as if it
>> was homogeneous (he didn't do a lot of knife work, so doesn't
>> completely understand grain). He's comfortable watching
>> Norm, but could learn a lot from Roy.
>
> Good stuff.
>
> When I look back on the stuff I've made using inferior and fewer
> tools,
> I feel some pride and accomplishment for having done such a good
> job
> manually and using some ingenuity instead of technology.
>
> But I also like the sense of "being there" I get from having and
> using a
> great tool.
> One appreciates having nice tools and what they do for you much
> more,
> when one has had to do it with less.

In business, we taught what was called the 80% rule. Essentially,
20% of the time/cost/effort will result in 80% of the desired
goal. The remaining 20% will take all the rest of the resources.
It holds true in a shop, kitchen or construction as well as in the
officeplace.

There is a reasonable level of tools and tool quality needed to
efficiently do a job. I never warmed up to the Shopsmith-type of
multitool, since I felt I'd be spending all my time setting it up,
rather than just walking over to the right tool and doing
something. I built a whole lot of stuff in my lifetime, with a
lot of it made using a Sears contractor's saw as my primary shop
tool.

When I finally built a dedicated shop for my woodworking hobby, I
first kept the old Sears saw, adding a Sears RAS for crosscuts and
a Sears compound miter saw for bevels and angles. It was only
later that I sold the old contractor's saw and got a PM66.
Another tool that I feel was irreplaceable was my 6 X 48" table
belt sander with the 10" disk sander. I got a 12" Delta planer
later on. For shaping, I first used an inverted Makita 1/2"
router on a home made bench, but even after going with a
floor-mounted shaper, I still used it a lot more than the shaper.

What's important, IMHO, is not so much the quality or expense of
your equipment, it's how well they're set up and aligned, how
sharp the blades are and how comfortable you feel using them.

--
Nonny

Have you ever wondered if the bills
in your wallet were ever in a stripper's butt crack?
Have a nice day ..


Rr

RicodJour

in reply to krw on 01/11/2009 7:16 PM

01/11/2009 5:49 PM

On Nov 1, 8:39=A0pm, krw <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >BTW, cold day in hell when I'd spend $5, much less $20 for a T/S
> >insert.
>
> They were on sale. =A0They're now $24.95 in their catalog. =A0;-)
>
> >At least not as along as I had 1/4 hardboard scraps, double back tape,
> >a router and some C-Clamps.
>
> When I get time in the shop I'd rather make something more interesting
> than a table saw insert. =A0Getting them to fit well takes time I'd
> rather spend doing something else. =A0

Like fiddling with a store bought insert that doesn't fit?

R

Rr

RicodJour

in reply to krw on 01/11/2009 7:16 PM

02/11/2009 8:57 AM

On Nov 2, 9:22=A0am, "dadiOH" <[email protected]> wrote:
> krw wrote:
> > Anyone have a clue why a zero-clearance insert would suddenly grow too
> > big to fit in the table?
>
> Did your saw get really, really, *REALLY* cold? =A0:)

Wouldn't the insert hole get bigger if the saw got cold?

R

dn

dpb

in reply to krw on 01/11/2009 7:16 PM

02/11/2009 8:17 AM

[email protected] wrote:
...

> Just slightly undersized holes and the allen screws create their own
> thread as they're inserted?

Ayup...

> My table saw leveling bosses are about 3/8" in depth. I suppose that
> would be enough thread for allen screws to grab.

Ayup...

:)

--

Mm

-MIKE-

in reply to krw on 01/11/2009 7:16 PM

02/11/2009 11:57 AM

dadiOH wrote:
> I'm with you.
>
> I browse through the wood working catalogs and am amazed by the number of
> things for sale - and which, apparently, are frequently purchased - which
> anyone could easily make for themselves.
>

I'm with both of you.

I wonder of there's a correlation between the skill level/experience of
a woodworker and how many shop-made (as opposed to store bought)
jigs they have.

I can find arguments for both sides, but I still wonder.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

MD

Morris Dovey

in reply to krw on 01/11/2009 7:16 PM

02/11/2009 12:20 PM

-MIKE- wrote:

> I wonder of there's a correlation between the skill level/experience of
> a woodworker and how many shop-made (as opposed to store bought)
> jigs they have.

I think there might be a stronger correlation between number of
shop-made jigs and size of the tool budget. :)

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

Mm

-MIKE-

in reply to krw on 01/11/2009 7:16 PM

02/11/2009 12:44 PM

Morris Dovey wrote:
> -MIKE- wrote:
>
>> I wonder of there's a correlation between the skill level/experience of
>> a woodworker and how many shop-made (as opposed to store bought)
>> jigs they have.
>
> I think there might be a stronger correlation between number of
> shop-made jigs and size of the tool budget. :)
>

That's probably much more accurate. :-)

Personally, if time isn't the first motivator (as in, I don't have even
ten minutes to go buy this thing), price is.

Just about every jig I see in the shop was built because I looked
on-line or in a catalog, and my first reaction was,
"HOW much!? Geez, I can *make* that."


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

Mm

-MIKE-

in reply to krw on 01/11/2009 7:16 PM

02/11/2009 1:48 PM

whit3rd wrote:
> If woodwork isn't intimidating, you get a knife and a block of wood,
> and have at it. Then you add chisels and a bench, and saws are
> too useful to do without. The unintimidated woodworker always
> has a knife nearby. He's comfortable watching Roy Underhill,
> but could learn a lot from Norm Abram.
>
> The intimidated woodworker needs an extra horsepower and
> deeper bandsaw throat, and often treats the wood as if it
> was homogeneous (he didn't do a lot of knife work, so doesn't
> completely understand grain). He's comfortable watching
> Norm, but could learn a lot from Roy.

Good stuff.

When I look back on the stuff I've made using inferior and fewer tools,
I feel some pride and accomplishment for having done such a good job
manually and using some ingenuity instead of technology.

But I also like the sense of "being there" I get from having and using a
great tool.
One appreciates having nice tools and what they do for you much more,
when one has had to do it with less.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

Mm

-MIKE-

in reply to krw on 01/11/2009 7:16 PM

02/11/2009 2:22 PM

Robatoy wrote:
> On Nov 2, 2:48 pm, -MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> But I also like the sense of "being there" I get from having and using a
>> great tool.
>> One appreciates having nice tools and what they do for you much more,
>> when one has had to do it with less.
>>
>
> I like a tool that dims the lights at turn-on....of the whole town.
>

Nice.

"Clark Griswold Woodworking"


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

BB

"Bill"

in reply to krw on 01/11/2009 7:16 PM

02/11/2009 3:31 PM


"whit3rd" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:8d6facaf-45d6-448e-b0ea-6dbb3299a443@k17g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
On Nov 2, 9:57 am, -MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:
> dadiOH wrote:

> > I browse through the wood working catalogs and am amazed by the number
> > of
> > things for sale - and which, apparently, are frequently purchased -
> > which
> > anyone could easily make for themselves.
>
> I wonder of there's a correlation between the skill level/experience of
> a woodworker and how many shop-made (as opposed to store bought)
> jigs they have.


That's reminds me of a pretty big mallet that I have that was made from a
wooden
hammer handle and a branch of a tree (directly). The unidentifiable person
who made it probably
did not have a Rochler nearby, but clearly knew what they were doing. It
looks like a museum piece to me.
When my shop is finished I may hang it on the wall for inspiration. :)
If anyone would care to see it, I'll take and post a pic.

Bill

ST

Steve Turner

in reply to krw on 01/11/2009 7:16 PM

02/11/2009 2:32 PM

Nonny wrote:
>
> "-MIKE-" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> Just about every jig I see in the shop was built because I looked
>> on-line or in a catalog, and my first reaction was,
>> "HOW much!? Geez, I can *make* that."
>
> I never tossed out a jig, unless it was just cobbled together for a
> single use and then taken back apart and tossed back in the bucket with
> other pieces. If the jig was something I would reuse, such as one I
> built for over the table sander to bevel the edges of coasters, then it
> was stored on a shelf for reuse. Those are the ones that built up over
> the years.

Yes, but did you think to *write* on the jig a description of why the
hell you built it in the first place? I can't think of how many times
I've pulled some old jig out of storage and have no earthly clue what I
used it for... :-)

--
See Nad. See Nad go. Go Nad!
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

Mm

-MIKE-

in reply to krw on 01/11/2009 7:16 PM

02/11/2009 2:38 PM

Steve Turner wrote:
> Yes, but did you think to *write* on the jig a description of why the
> hell you built it in the first place? I can't think of how many times
> I've pulled some old jig out of storage and have no earthly clue what I
> used it for... :-)
>

LMAO!!
I started laughing before I finished reading your first sentence!

Bought the t-shirt. :-)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

Mm

-MIKE-

in reply to krw on 01/11/2009 7:16 PM

02/11/2009 2:38 PM

> If anyone would care to see it, I'll take and post a pic.
>
> Bill
>

Do you have to even ask? sheesh. :-p


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

MD

Morris Dovey

in reply to krw on 01/11/2009 7:16 PM

02/11/2009 3:13 PM

RicodJour wrote:

> Exactly my point. So if all of the metal around the hole is
> shrinking, why is the hole getting smaller? The shrinkage takes place
> in the cast iron, right?

Yup. As the cast iron shrinks, every atom gets a little closer to every
other atom - and that includes the atoms around (and on opposite sides
of) the hole.

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

dn

dpb

in reply to krw on 01/11/2009 7:16 PM

02/11/2009 3:15 PM

RicodJour wrote:
> On Nov 2, 9:22 am, "dadiOH" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> krw wrote:
>>> Anyone have a clue why a zero-clearance insert would suddenly grow too
>>> big to fit in the table?
>> Did your saw get really, really, *REALLY* cold? :)
>
> Wouldn't the insert hole get bigger if the saw got cold?

Like so you mean we should be cooling those bearings to help get them
off a shaft like getting bigger, like... :)

--

ST

Steve Turner

in reply to krw on 01/11/2009 7:16 PM

02/11/2009 4:03 PM

dadiOH wrote:
> Steve Turner wrote:
>> Yes, but did you think to *write* on the jig a description of why the
>> hell you built it in the first place?
>
> Me, me...I do :)

Me too... NOW. :-)

--
"Even if your wife is happy but you're unhappy, you're still happier
than you'd be if you were happy and your wife was unhappy." - Red Green
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

Mm

-MIKE-

in reply to krw on 01/11/2009 7:16 PM

02/11/2009 4:24 PM

Steve Turner wrote:
> "Even if your wife is happy but you're unhappy, you're still happier
> than you'd be if you were happy and your wife was unhappy." - Red Green


I'm stealing your sig line, btw.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

kk

krw

in reply to krw on 01/11/2009 7:16 PM

01/11/2009 10:28 PM

On Sun, 1 Nov 2009 18:48:40 -0800 (PST), RicodJour
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Nov 1, 9:17 pm, krw <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On Sun, 1 Nov 2009 17:49:13 -0800 (PST), RicodJour
>>
>>
>>
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >On Nov 1, 8:39 pm, krw <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> "Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >> >BTW, cold day in hell when I'd spend $5, much less $20 for a T/S
>> >> >insert.
>>
>> >> They were on sale.  They're now $24.95 in their catalog.  ;-)
>>
>> >> >At least not as along as I had 1/4 hardboard scraps, double back tape,
>> >> >a router and some C-Clamps.
>>
>> >> When I get time in the shop I'd rather make something more interesting
>> >> than a table saw insert.  Getting them to fit well takes time I'd
>> >> rather spend doing something else.  
>>
>> >Like fiddling with a store bought insert that doesn't fit?
>>
>> It certainly *DID* fit.  It wouldn't have had the dado silhouette in
>> it if it hadn't.  It's brother still fit.  
>
>I don't understand. Making inserts is not a big deal and it doesn't
>take a lot of time. A router, a template, zip zip zip. And there
>wouldn't be any question of the thing growing or shrinking. Like Lew
>said, the double stick tape makes knocking them out trivial. Five or
>six at a time. What's that in store bought dollars?

Does the router template add the thickness adjustment screws? What's
an hour of my free time worth?

>In any event I have no idea what happened to your insert unless you
>got it wet. Contact Woodgraft...errr, Woodcraft and express your
>disappointment. They'll probably send you a new one.

It is in the garage but hasn't been near any water. Good suggestion,
though. I'll send Woodcraft a note. I looked at it again this
evening (thought I might have gotten the tab hung up underneath, or
something) and yep, it's abut 1/16" long. The other fits in there
like it was supposed to. They've been sitting on the same shelf next
to each other since I last used the dado insert.

kk

krw

in reply to krw on 01/11/2009 7:16 PM

01/11/2009 7:39 PM

On Sun, 1 Nov 2009 17:28:08 -0800, "Lew Hodgett"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
>"krw" wrote:
>
>> Anyone have a clue why a zero-clearance insert would suddenly grow
>> too
>> big to fit in the table? The insert I use for dadoing no longer
>> fits
>> the saw opening. I grabbed an unused, though otherwise identical
>> insert, and it fits just like it was meant to. I ended up making
>> another dado insert, wasting a $20 blank. :-( These blanks were
>> from
>> Woodcraft, BTW.
>
>Don't have a clue, but why not spend a little time with a file or some
>sandpaper and rework till it fits?

The edge isn't just MDF. Not sure what it is but it's sorta rubbery,
I guess to keep it in the table. It seems like it's now at least a
1/16th too long.

>BTW, cold day in hell when I'd spend $5, much less $20 for a T/S
>insert.

They were on sale. They're now $24.95 in their catalog. ;-)

>At least not as along as I had 1/4 hardboard scraps, double back tape,
>a router and some C-Clamps.

When I get time in the shop I'd rather make something more interesting
than a table saw insert. Getting them to fit well takes time I'd
rather spend doing something else.

GG

Greg G.

in reply to krw on 01/11/2009 7:16 PM

02/11/2009 3:51 AM

[email protected] said:

>On Sun, 1 Nov 2009 18:48:40 -0800 (PST), RicodJour
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>said, the double stick tape makes knocking them out trivial. Five or
>>six at a time. What's that in store bought dollars?
>
>Just out of interest's sake, what's the popular method for getting
>those inserts to sit level with the tablesaw top? My danged tablesaw
>insert cavity has a certain depth that defies my finding some wood or
>other material making insert construction easy.

I use 1/2" ply and thread 4 allen head set-screws into it over each
saw table leveling boss. A 3/8" brass rod out the rear hooks the
sawtop lip to prevent the blade from lifting the insert and throwing
it through the wall. Inexpensive saws may not have leveling bosses
(i.e. Delta 32-600 and some Craftsman).


Greg G.

dd

"dadiOH"

in reply to krw on 01/11/2009 7:16 PM

02/11/2009 4:13 PM

Steve Turner wrote:
> Nonny wrote:
>>
>> "-MIKE-" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> Just about every jig I see in the shop was built because I looked
>>> on-line or in a catalog, and my first reaction was,
>>> "HOW much!? Geez, I can *make* that."
>>
>> I never tossed out a jig, unless it was just cobbled together for a
>> single use and then taken back apart and tossed back in the bucket
>> with other pieces. If the jig was something I would reuse, such as
>> one I built for over the table sander to bevel the edges of
>> coasters, then it was stored on a shelf for reuse. Those are the
>> ones that built up over the years.
>
> Yes, but did you think to *write* on the jig a description of why the
> hell you built it in the first place?

Me, me...I do :)

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico


u

in reply to krw on 01/11/2009 7:16 PM

02/11/2009 3:06 AM

On Sun, 01 Nov 2009 19:16:25 -0600, krw <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>Anyone have a clue why a zero-clearance insert would suddenly grow too
>big to fit in the table? The insert I use for dadoing no longer fits
>the saw opening.

I'm guessing your tablesaw shrunk. That's what happens when you wash
it in hot water. Next time, use the cold setting.

u

in reply to krw on 01/11/2009 7:16 PM

02/11/2009 4:04 AM

On Mon, 02 Nov 2009 03:51:22 -0500, Greg G.<[email protected]> wrote:

>I use 1/2" ply and thread 4 allen head set-screws into it over each
>saw table leveling boss.

Just slightly undersized holes and the allen screws create their own
thread as they're inserted?

My table saw leveling bosses are about 3/8" in depth. I suppose that
would be enough thread for allen screws to grab.

Ll

"Leon"

in reply to krw on 01/11/2009 7:16 PM

02/11/2009 6:31 AM


"Greg G." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> [email protected] said:
>

>
> I use 1/2" ply and thread 4 allen head set-screws into it over each
> saw table leveling boss. A 3/8" brass rod out the rear hooks the
> sawtop lip to prevent the blade from lifting the insert and throwing
> it through the wall. Inexpensive saws may not have leveling bosses
> (i.e. Delta 32-600 and some Craftsman).
>
>
> Greg G.

I simply used 4, 3/8" long #6 flat head screws. They will screw flush on
the bottom side if needed. and no pre drilling needed. Because they never
needed to be readjusted being on the bottom side is not really a draw back.


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