I need to staple thin aluminum flashing to pine. I have an old Arrow
T50M gun, which doesn't quite have enough oomph to sink a 3/8" long
staple flush. I could try using 1/4" or 5/16" long staples, but I'd
prefer to go with a wider crown, and I know that staple gun technolgy has
improved a good bit since the T50 was designed. This will be used
outdoors, and electric or pneumatic is overkill (& over-$$).
The T50's use a 3/8" width (presumably OD). My research shows that there
are two flavors of "wide crown". Ace Hardware sells staples as either
"Wide Crown I" or "Wide Crown II". The Wide crown I's fit various
flavors of Ace, B&D, and Craftsman. I think that these are 14mm wide,
which is ~ 0.55". The Wide Crown II's fit some Master Mechanic, Stanley
and Swinglines. I think these are 1/2" wide. I also found an indication
that Bostitch uses 7/16" wide staples, which I consider too narrow.
From the Googling I did, there aren't a lot of _manual_ wide-crown guns
around anymore. Swingline appears to be out of the manual gun business
entirely. Stanley & Bostich appear to have merged, and don't seem to
have much for sale that still uses the wide crown staples. Craftsman's
stuff is mostly re-labled B&D, and the B&D Powershot's have gotten a lot
of bad reviews (although a lot of them are from idiots who can't deal
with the "backward" design).
I can wade through all of the specific model numbers that Ace claims use
the wide crown staples to see if any are still sold. In the meantime, I
figured I see if anyone has any recommendations or warnings.
Thanks!
Doug White
"Doug White" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I need to staple thin aluminum flashing to pine. I have an old Arrow
> T50M gun, which doesn't quite have enough oomph to sink a 3/8" long
> staple flush. I could try using 1/4" or 5/16" long staples, but I'd
> prefer to go with a wider crown, and I know that staple gun technolgy has
> improved a good bit since the T50 was designed. This will be used
> outdoors, and electric or pneumatic is overkill (& over-$$).
>
> The T50's use a 3/8" width (presumably OD). My research shows that there
> are two flavors of "wide crown". Ace Hardware sells staples as either
> "Wide Crown I" or "Wide Crown II". The Wide crown I's fit various
> flavors of Ace, B&D, and Craftsman. I think that these are 14mm wide,
> which is ~ 0.55". The Wide Crown II's fit some Master Mechanic, Stanley
> and Swinglines. I think these are 1/2" wide. I also found an indication
> that Bostitch uses 7/16" wide staples, which I consider too narrow.
>
> From the Googling I did, there aren't a lot of _manual_ wide-crown guns
> around anymore. Swingline appears to be out of the manual gun business
> entirely. Stanley & Bostich appear to have merged, and don't seem to
> have much for sale that still uses the wide crown staples. Craftsman's
> stuff is mostly re-labled B&D, and the B&D Powershot's have gotten a lot
> of bad reviews (although a lot of them are from idiots who can't deal
> with the "backward" design).
>
> I can wade through all of the specific model numbers that Ace claims use
> the wide crown staples to see if any are still sold. In the meantime, I
> figured I see if anyone has any recommendations or warnings.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Doug White
Bite the bullet and get air. So much better, and you can get smaller
nailers for reasonable that do a LOT of work you used to do manually. You
will also do BETTER work. Little pancake compressors can be had used for
cheap if you just shop around.
Friend of mine bought a new Porter Cable pancake, and three new nailguns,
1", 2", and 3" for $135 at a hock shop.
Get one. You know you want it.
Steve
Heart surgery pending?
www.cabgbypasssurgery.com
"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "SonomaProducts.com" wrote:
>
>> And then use stainless staples so no rust, and no electrolisis
> -------------------------------
> T-50 S/S available at West Marine, if not your local hardware.
I picked up some stainless steel T-50 staples at Home Depot the other day.
Doug White wrote:
>
> I need to staple thin aluminum flashing to pine. I have an old Arrow
> T50M gun, which doesn't quite have enough oomph to sink a 3/8" long
> staple flush.
The springs get weak in those guns as they get old. Try a new gun
and see what happens.
--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a Band-Aid on it, because it's
Teflon coated.
Gunner Asch <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> On Sun, 03 Apr 2011 18:52:35 GMT, Doug White <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>>I need to staple thin aluminum flashing to pine. I have an old Arrow
>>T50M gun, which doesn't quite have enough oomph to sink a 3/8" long
>>staple flush. I could try using 1/4" or 5/16" long staples, but I'd
>>prefer to go with a wider crown, and I know that staple gun technolgy
>>has improved a good bit since the T50 was designed. This will be used
>>outdoors, and electric or pneumatic is overkill (& over-$$).
>>
>>The T50's use a 3/8" width (presumably OD). My research shows that
>>there are two flavors of "wide crown". Ace Hardware sells staples as
>>either "Wide Crown I" or "Wide Crown II". The Wide crown I's fit
>>various flavors of Ace, B&D, and Craftsman. I think that these are
>>14mm wide, which is ~ 0.55". The Wide Crown II's fit some Master
>>Mechanic, Stanley and Swinglines. I think these are 1/2" wide. I
>>also found an indication that Bostitch uses 7/16" wide staples, which
>>I consider too narrow.
>>
>>From the Googling I did, there aren't a lot of _manual_ wide-crown
>>guns around anymore. Swingline appears to be out of the manual gun
>>business entirely. Stanley & Bostich appear to have merged, and don't
>>seem to have much for sale that still uses the wide crown staples.
>>Craftsman's stuff is mostly re-labled B&D, and the B&D Powershot's
>>have gotten a lot of bad reviews (although a lot of them are from
>>idiots who can't deal with the "backward" design).
>>
>>I can wade through all of the specific model numbers that Ace claims
>>use the wide crown staples to see if any are still sold. In the
>>meantime, I figured I see if anyone has any recommendations or
>>warnings.
>>
>>Thanks!
>>
>>Doug White
>
>
> Doug, can you use a "hammer stapler"?
>
> They can be had in T50 size and they are swung like a hammer and will
> indeed go through thin alum like poop through a goose.
>
> The guys in So Cal that do roof joist coverings in machine shops use
> those.
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ARROW-HAMMER-STAPLER-MODEL-HT50A-/230602312931?pt=L
> H_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35b0f80ce3
>
> http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&_trksid=p2703.m570.l1313&_nkw=hammer+st
> apler&_sacat=See-All-Categories
I need a bit more precision than a hammer stapler can provide (at least
in my hands). I need to hit an area about 1/4" high by an inch or so
wide.
The only wide-crown vaguely conventional staple guns I've found are a
Black & Decker and a Duo-Fast. The latter got one glowing review on
Amazon, and the guy compared it to a couple of other narrow crown guns,
including the T50:
http://www.amazon.com/Duo-Fast-CS5000-Compression-Stapler/dp/B000YSF80K
He claims it has much better penetration than the T50, so I think I'll
give it a try.
Gunner Asch <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> On Mon, 04 Apr 2011 22:33:52 GMT, Doug White <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
><Snip>
>>
>>The only wide-crown vaguely conventional staple guns I've found are a
>>Black & Decker and a Duo-Fast. The latter got one glowing review on
>>Amazon, and the guy compared it to a couple of other narrow crown
>>guns, including the T50:
>>
>>http://www.amazon.com/Duo-Fast-CS5000-Compression-Stapler/dp/B000YSF80K
>>
>>He claims it has much better penetration than the T50, so I think I'll
>>give it a try.
>
> Give us a review after you have used it a while.
I got the Duo-Fast, and I like it! It is easier to operate than my T50,
and has a couple of additional nice features. It has a knob on top that
allows you to dial in the power needed for a given job, and it has a
mechanism so you can pop it open to clear a jam easily. With the power
cranked all the way up, it gives significantly better penetration than
the T50, with less firing effort.
The Duo-Fast staples are "chisel point", which means the tips are just
ground to a wedge, parallel to the stack. I'm used to the T50 "divergent
point" staples, where each staple has a sharp point cut 90 degrees from
the orientation of the points on the chisel point staples. Each side is
cut with the point in the opposite direction, so they tend to splay as
they go in. This is supposed to give better holding power. I originally
thought the divergent point ones would also have better penetration
through the aluminum flashing I was working with. Arrow sells wide crown
divergent point staples for Duo-Fast guns, although the box doesn't list
the CS5000. I bought some to try, and they seem to work OK, although the
very first one jammed (it may also have been the last of the chisel
points from before). In any event, the quick jam clearing feature worked
very nicely, and I didn't have a problem after that. Penetration of the
two styles of staples was pretty much indistinguishable. I didn't try
prying them out, so I don't know if the divergent points hold appreciably
better. I doubt I could tell the difference with just a screw driver.
When stapling flashing to soft pine, the variable power feature was very
nice. I could easily adjust it so that the bottom of the staple was just
flat & in contact against the flashing, or crank it up so they were
driven flush across the top (which stresses the aluminum, and is probably
weaker, although esthetically nicer). If I hit a harder or softer piece
of pine, I could tweak the power to suit.
All in all, I consider it a significant improvement over my old T50, and
it has become my staple gun of choice for future projects.
Doug White
On Apr 16, 11:33=A0am, Doug White <[email protected]> wrote:
> Gunner Asch <[email protected]> wrote innews:amukp6t0l1aqlk3uia7lg8rjs=
[email protected]:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Mon, 04 Apr 2011 22:33:52 GMT, Doug White <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
>
> ><Snip>
>
> >>The only wide-crown vaguely conventional staple guns I've found are a
> >>Black & Decker and a Duo-Fast. =A0The latter got one glowing review on
> >>Amazon, and the guy compared it to a couple of other narrow crown
> >>guns, including the T50:
>
> >>http://www.amazon.com/Duo-Fast-CS5000-Compression-Stapler/dp/B000YSF80K
>
> >>He claims it has much better penetration than the T50, so I think I'll
> >>give it a try.
>
> > Give us a review after you have used it a while.
>
> I got the Duo-Fast, and I like it! =A0It is easier to operate than my T50=
,
> and has a couple of additional nice features. =A0It has a knob on top tha=
t
> allows you to dial in the power needed for a given job, and it has a
> mechanism so you can pop it open to clear a jam easily. =A0With the power
> cranked all the way up, it gives significantly better penetration than
> the T50, with less firing effort.
>
> The Duo-Fast staples are "chisel point", which means the tips are just
> ground to a wedge, parallel to the stack. =A0I'm used to the T50 "diverge=
nt
> point" staples, where each staple has a sharp point cut 90 degrees from
> the orientation of the points on the chisel point staples. =A0Each side i=
s
> cut with the point in the opposite direction, so they tend to splay as
> they go in. =A0This is supposed to give better holding power. =A0I origin=
ally
> thought the divergent point ones would also have better penetration
> through the aluminum flashing I was working with. =A0Arrow sells wide cro=
wn
> divergent point staples for Duo-Fast guns, although the box doesn't list
> the CS5000. =A0I bought some to try, and they seem to work OK, although t=
he
> very first one jammed (it may also have been the last of the chisel
> points from before). =A0In any event, the quick jam clearing feature work=
ed
> very nicely, and I didn't have a problem after that. =A0Penetration of th=
e
> two styles of staples was pretty much indistinguishable. =A0I didn't try
> prying them out, so I don't know if the divergent points hold appreciably
> better. =A0I doubt I could tell the difference with just a screw driver.
>
> When stapling flashing to soft pine, the variable power feature was very
> nice. =A0I could easily adjust it so that the bottom of the staple was ju=
st
> flat & in contact against the flashing, or crank it up so they were
> driven flush across the top (which stresses the aluminum, and is probably
> weaker, although esthetically nicer). =A0If I hit a harder or softer piec=
e
> of pine, I could tweak the power to suit.
>
> All in all, I consider it a significant improvement over my old T50, and
> it has become my staple gun of choice for future projects.
>
> Doug White
Good to know.
Thanks
Karl
On Mon, 04 Apr 2011 22:33:52 GMT, Doug White <[email protected]>
wrote:
>>
>> The guys in So Cal that do roof joist coverings in machine shops use
>> those.
>>
>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ARROW-HAMMER-STAPLER-MODEL-HT50A-/230602312931?pt=L
>> H_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35b0f80ce3
>>
>> http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&_trksid=p2703.m570.l1313&_nkw=hammer+st
>> apler&_sacat=See-All-Categories
>
>I need a bit more precision than a hammer stapler can provide (at least
>in my hands). I need to hit an area about 1/4" high by an inch or so
>wide.
>
>The only wide-crown vaguely conventional staple guns I've found are a
>Black & Decker and a Duo-Fast. The latter got one glowing review on
>Amazon, and the guy compared it to a couple of other narrow crown guns,
>including the T50:
>
>http://www.amazon.com/Duo-Fast-CS5000-Compression-Stapler/dp/B000YSF80K
>
>He claims it has much better penetration than the T50, so I think I'll
>give it a try.
Give us a review after you have used it a while.
Gunner
--
"You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once."
Robert A. Heinlein
And then use stainless staples so no rust, and no electrolisis
On Apr 3, 2:29=A0pm, Gunner Asch <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Sun, 03 Apr 2011 18:52:35 GMT, Doug White <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >I need to staple thin aluminum flashing to pine. =A0I have an old Arrow
> >T50M gun, which doesn't quite have enough oomph to sink a 3/8" long
> >staple flush. =A0I could try using 1/4" or 5/16" long staples, but I'd
> >prefer to go with a wider crown, and I know that staple gun technolgy ha=
s
> >improved a good bit since the T50 was designed. =A0This will be used
> >outdoors, and electric or pneumatic is overkill (& over-$$).
>
> >The T50's use a 3/8" width (presumably OD). =A0My research shows that th=
ere
> >are two flavors of "wide crown". =A0Ace Hardware sells staples as either
> >"Wide Crown I" or "Wide Crown II". =A0The Wide crown I's fit various
> >flavors of Ace, B&D, and Craftsman. =A0I think that these are 14mm wide,
> >which is ~ 0.55". =A0The Wide Crown II's fit some Master Mechanic, Stanl=
ey
> >and Swinglines. =A0I think these are 1/2" wide. =A0I also found an indic=
ation
> >that Bostitch uses 7/16" wide staples, which I consider too narrow.
>
> >From the Googling I did, there aren't a lot of _manual_ wide-crown guns
> >around anymore. =A0Swingline appears to be out of the manual gun busines=
s
> >entirely. =A0Stanley & Bostich appear to have merged, and don't seem to
> >have much for sale that still uses the wide crown staples. =A0Craftsman'=
s
> >stuff is mostly re-labled B&D, and the B&D Powershot's have gotten a lot
> >of bad reviews (although a lot of them are from idiots who can't deal
> >with the "backward" design).
>
> >I can wade through all of the specific model numbers that Ace claims use
> >the wide crown staples to see if any are still sold. =A0In the meantime,=
I
> >figured I see if anyone has any recommendations or warnings.
>
> >Thanks!
>
> >Doug White
>
> Doug, can you use a "hammer stapler"?
>
> They can be had in T50 size and they are swung like a hammer and will
> indeed go through thin alum like poop through a goose.
>
> The guys in So Cal that do roof joist coverings in machine shops use
> those.
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ARROW-HAMMER-STAPLER-MODEL-HT50A-/230602312931?pt...
>
> http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=3DR40&_trksid=3Dp2703.m570.l1313&_nkw=3Dhamme=
r+...
>
> --
>
> "You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having =
both at once."
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Robert A. Heinlein- Hide quote=
d text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
In article <[email protected]>,
Terry <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Sun, 03 Apr 2011 18:52:35 GMT, Doug White <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >I need to staple thin aluminum flashing to pine. I have an old Arrow
> >T50M gun, which doesn't quite have enough oomph to sink a 3/8" long
> >staple flush. I could try using 1/4" or 5/16" long staples, but I'd
> >prefer to go with a wider crown, and I know that staple gun technolgy has
> >improved a good bit since the T50 was designed. This will be used
> >outdoors, and electric or pneumatic is overkill (& over-$$).
> <snip>
>
> Hello Doug,
>
> If there is a 1/2" version of the Arrow Power-Shot, and if it gets
> reasonable reviews...
>
> I have the 3/8" Power-Shot and for hands that aren't as strong as
> they once were, it is definitely an improvement. Much easier to
> squeeze.
>
> (OT: they now make manual desk staplers that don't require one to
> hammer the thing with a fist. Similar in nature to the Power Shot. I
> bought one a year ago, works very well. Have to guard it to make sure
> that it doesn't walk away. ;-))
What make and model?
Thanks,
Joe Gwinn
On Sun, 03 Apr 2011 18:52:35 GMT, Doug White <[email protected]>
wrote:
>I need to staple thin aluminum flashing to pine. I have an old Arrow
>T50M gun, which doesn't quite have enough oomph to sink a 3/8" long
>staple flush. I could try using 1/4" or 5/16" long staples, but I'd
>prefer to go with a wider crown, and I know that staple gun technolgy has
>improved a good bit since the T50 was designed. This will be used
>outdoors, and electric or pneumatic is overkill (& over-$$).
>
>The T50's use a 3/8" width (presumably OD). My research shows that there
>are two flavors of "wide crown". Ace Hardware sells staples as either
>"Wide Crown I" or "Wide Crown II". The Wide crown I's fit various
>flavors of Ace, B&D, and Craftsman. I think that these are 14mm wide,
>which is ~ 0.55". The Wide Crown II's fit some Master Mechanic, Stanley
>and Swinglines. I think these are 1/2" wide. I also found an indication
>that Bostitch uses 7/16" wide staples, which I consider too narrow.
>
>From the Googling I did, there aren't a lot of _manual_ wide-crown guns
>around anymore. Swingline appears to be out of the manual gun business
>entirely. Stanley & Bostich appear to have merged, and don't seem to
>have much for sale that still uses the wide crown staples. Craftsman's
>stuff is mostly re-labled B&D, and the B&D Powershot's have gotten a lot
>of bad reviews (although a lot of them are from idiots who can't deal
>with the "backward" design).
>
>I can wade through all of the specific model numbers that Ace claims use
>the wide crown staples to see if any are still sold. In the meantime, I
>figured I see if anyone has any recommendations or warnings.
>
>Thanks!
>
>Doug White
Doug, can you use a "hammer stapler"?
They can be had in T50 size and they are swung like a hammer and will
indeed go through thin alum like poop through a goose.
The guys in So Cal that do roof joist coverings in machine shops use
those.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ARROW-HAMMER-STAPLER-MODEL-HT50A-/230602312931?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35b0f80ce3
http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&_trksid=p2703.m570.l1313&_nkw=hammer+stapler&_sacat=See-All-Categories
--
"You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once."
Robert A. Heinlein
On Sun, 03 Apr 2011 18:52:35 GMT, Doug White <[email protected]>
wrote:
>I need to staple thin aluminum flashing to pine. I have an old Arrow
>T50M gun, which doesn't quite have enough oomph to sink a 3/8" long
>staple flush. I could try using 1/4" or 5/16" long staples, but I'd
>prefer to go with a wider crown, and I know that staple gun technolgy has
>improved a good bit since the T50 was designed. This will be used
>outdoors, and electric or pneumatic is overkill (& over-$$).
<snip>
Hello Doug,
If there is a 1/2" version of the Arrow Power-Shot, and if it gets
reasonable reviews...
I have the 3/8" Power-Shot and for hands that aren't as strong as
they once were, it is definitely an improvement. Much easier to
squeeze.
(OT: they now make manual desk staplers that don't require one to
hammer the thing with a fist. Similar in nature to the Power Shot. I
bought one a year ago, works very well. Have to guard it to make sure
that it doesn't walk away. ;-))
--
Best -- Terry