I am mulling over how to make my first woodworking bench, and after
looking at many sites, and considering cost, I am going to build
with standard lumber. My questions are as follows:
Is there any reason to stick with laminating 2x4's for the
legs versus using 4x4 or even better(?) 4x6 stock. I want
to build a leg vise and I am tempted to use the 4x6 dougfir
they have at the local Builder's Supply. Are there any
ramifications that I should be aware of? I asked them and
got blank stares and they made me feel like an idiot.
And while I'm asking can you use this 4x6 or 4x4 stuff as the
laminated top, or should I stick with glueing up 2x4s?
I have debated using plywood or mdf, but I just don't want
to do that, although I am sure you all have opinions on that
decision.
I would really appreciate any suggestions, since the only
person around here I can ask is my Dad, and he is the KING
of Shortcuts. (Great for many projects, but not this one)
Well, I guess my first piece of advice is that while it's nice to try
and do a good job and make a bench that you'll be proud of, this isn't
the type of project to put that much worry into. You'll put a lot of
dents into this, get paint/stain on it, etc. So don't worry.
If you can find non-pressure treated 4 X4 or 4X6, I don't see why you
couldn't use it. Altough, unless you need a leg that thick for your
vise, I see no reason not to make the legs out of 2 X 4s. They are
plenty strong for your legs.
The downside of using framing lumber is that it will warp. This may or
may not be a big deal to you. My bench has a 2 X 4 frame (basically a
cube, so the legs on are attached together on bottom and top). then I
just used a piece of 3/4 ply for the top and a shelf at the bottom.
It's plenty sturdy. If you need extra thickness for bench dogs or
whatever, you could put a double layer of plywood on the top.
tim wrote:
> I am mulling over how to make my first woodworking bench, and after
> looking at many sites, and considering cost, I am going to build
> with standard lumber. My questions are as follows:
>
> Is there any reason to stick with laminating 2x4's for the
> legs versus using 4x4 or even better(?) 4x6 stock. I want
> to build a leg vise and I am tempted to use the 4x6 dougfir
> they have at the local Builder's Supply. Are there any
> ramifications that I should be aware of? I asked them and
> got blank stares and they made me feel like an idiot.
>
> And while I'm asking can you use this 4x6 or 4x4 stuff as the
> laminated top, or should I stick with glueing up 2x4s?
> I have debated using plywood or mdf, but I just don't want
> to do that, although I am sure you all have opinions on that
> decision.
>
> I would really appreciate any suggestions, since the only
> person around here I can ask is my Dad, and he is the KING
> of Shortcuts. (Great for many projects, but not this one)
Not knowing what you have available for cutting & joining sticks, some
generalities:
For one, splitting and checking is generally more of a problem with
larger-section-dimension lumber. Really big stuff gets heavy, which
may be a +. Making clean cuts will be a challenge, unless you have one
of the real monster circ-saws, and can guide it.
OTOH, dimension lumber from most mills has rounded corners, making for
surface gaps when gluing. Getting such sticks aligned precisely, and
clamped evenly for gluing must be a real hoot. Laminations are
inherently difficult/impossible to split through.
Probably depends most on quality of what's available locally. Does
your supplier carry lumber better than stud to utility grade? Can you
choose pieces (like, no knots)?
And ... 4x6 for the top? To support big-block engines?
I've found that doubled 3/4" CDX plywood is extremely strong, making
excellent web for small beams.
HTH,
J
I'll echo what bf and Stephen M said...construction pine just moves all
the hell over the damn place. See my recent post, "Okay...I
give...when WILL my pine table top quit moving" for some similar
replies.
Learn from my mistake...I did everything "right" and still my lumber
moved. I've vowed never to use construction lumber again for anything
other than....well.....construction.
Go a search on "weekend workbench" plans. I built this bench out of
kiln dried 2x4's from Home Depot. The legs are laminated 2x4 done in a
way that looks like half lap joints. The railes are attached to the
ends via nuts/bolts in pocket holes so you can diassemble if so choose.
The plans call for a solid core door which is what I used. I added oak
trim to the perimeter and drilled 3/4" dog holes around the perimeter.
Plans also call for drawers but I needed the extra shelf space and did
not do the drawers. You could put any top you wanted included a
laminated maple I suppose.
I coated with a couple coats of poly. It actually looks and performs
quite well.
Do a search on "Weekend Workbench Plans".
On 12 Aug 2005 10:59:52 -0700, "tim" <[email protected]> wrote:
>I am mulling over how to make my first woodworking bench, and after
>looking at many sites, and considering cost, I am going to build
>with standard lumber. My questions are as follows:
>
>Is there any reason to stick with laminating 2x4's for the
>legs versus using 4x4 or even better(?) 4x6 stock. I want
>to build a leg vise and I am tempted to use the 4x6 dougfir
>they have at the local Builder's Supply. Are there any
>ramifications that I should be aware of? I asked them and
>got blank stares and they made me feel like an idiot.
>
>And while I'm asking can you use this 4x6 or 4x4 stuff as the
>laminated top, or should I stick with glueing up 2x4s?
>I have debated using plywood or mdf, but I just don't want
>to do that, although I am sure you all have opinions on that
>decision.
>
>I would really appreciate any suggestions, since the only
>person around here I can ask is my Dad, and he is the KING
>of Shortcuts. (Great for many projects, but not this one)
Douglas Fir or Hemlock that has been Kiln dried works fine. Sort
through the pile of higher grade 2x at the borg for the knot free
stuff and go for it.
My first ww project as a newbie was a bench. Didn't want to trash cash
wreaking maple, so I did the pine. Worked up my own plans combing two
bench ideas that I liked. Made mine longer, deeper, no tool tray, etc.
http://www.terraclavis.com/bws/beginners.htm
http://www.popularwoodworking.com/features/fea.asp?id=1069
After a year it's still flat. Sure it's more susceptible to dents but
who cares. It's my first bench and can be planed again if need be.
Some day when my skills have increased, I will take on a new bench.
Warren
Ba r r y wrote:
> On Fri, 12 Aug 2005 23:30:22 GMT, Lew Hodgett
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
> >All the lumber in California, especially SoCal, is shipped in wet, not
> >just green, but then again it is Doug Fir, not Spruce which must be kiln
> >dried which is why it gets shipped to the East coast.
>
> You get NO kiln dried construction lumber in California?
Even though they do, construction lumber is not completely
kiln dried to the same moisture content as cabinet grade.
Even the kiln-dried stuff will move on you, though Doug Fir
has a reputation for moving the least which is why it is
sometimes sold green.
Regarding laminated 2x4 vs 4x4 legs one advantage to the
laminated legs is that a defect like a large knot will
only pass halfway through the leg, unless you align
defects when you laminate them. If you use half-lap joinery,
you can do that by using short pieces appropriately spaced
for one side of the laminations instead of cutting open mortises.
By virtue of being thinner, the 2x lumber should have dried
more on the shelf (or in your shop) than the 4x. You can
also glue the legs into an "L" shape for beter stablity than
you get with a solid rectangle.
All that aside, working with thicker timbers is fun. For
the individual, that may be the deciding factor.
--
FF
Lew Hodgett wrote:
> Ba r r y wrote:
>
> > You get NO kiln dried construction lumber in California?
>
> Way back when Builders Square was still in operation, they supplied kiln
> dried lumber, but I would bet at least 90% of the construction lumber in
> SoCal is "wet", but NBD.
>
Out here around Balmore/Washington DC all the constrauction grade
lumber is kiln dried to ~ 12%. Green lumber would rot on the
shelf.
'Kiln dried' lumber is not all dreid to the point of maximum
stablity. COnstruction lumber, even when kiln dried, is
typically NOT kiln dried to stability, as cabinet lumber would be.
As OP noted, that is usualy fine for utilitarian workbenches
and sawhorses.
--
FF
On Fri, 12 Aug 2005 23:30:22 GMT, Lew Hodgett
<[email protected]> wrote:
>All the lumber in California, especially SoCal, is shipped in wet, not
>just green, but then again it is Doug Fir, not Spruce which must be kiln
>dried which is why it gets shipped to the East coast.
You get NO kiln dried construction lumber in California?
On 13 Aug 2005 06:02:10 -0700, [email protected] wrote:
>
>Ba r r y wrote:
>>
>> You get NO kiln dried construction lumber in California?
>
>Even though they do, construction lumber is not completely
>kiln dried to the same moisture content as cabinet grade.
Who said it was?
I've used KD construction lumber for plenty of benches, shop shelves,
clamp racks, etc... It works just fine, as long as a furniture-like
appearance isn't desired.
I wouldn't use KD doug fir or spruce for a fine woodworking heirloom
bench, but it's fine for keeping the planer, miter saw, or clamps off
the floor.
Barry
On 13 Aug 2005 06:02:10 -0700, [email protected] wrote:
>
>Ba r r y wrote:
>> On Fri, 12 Aug 2005 23:30:22 GMT, Lew Hodgett
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>
>> >All the lumber in California, especially SoCal, is shipped in wet, not
>> >just green, but then again it is Doug Fir, not Spruce which must be kiln
>> >dried which is why it gets shipped to the East coast.
>>
>> You get NO kiln dried construction lumber in California?
>
>Even though they do, construction lumber is not completely
>kiln dried to the same moisture content as cabinet grade.
>
>Even the kiln-dried stuff will move on you, though Doug Fir
>has a reputation for moving the least which is why it is
>sometimes sold green.
>
>Regarding laminated 2x4 vs 4x4 legs one advantage to the
>laminated legs is that a defect like a large knot will
>only pass halfway through the leg, unless you align
>defects when you laminate them. If you use half-lap joinery,
>you can do that by using short pieces appropriately spaced
>for one side of the laminations instead of cutting open mortises.
>By virtue of being thinner, the 2x lumber should have dried
>more on the shelf (or in your shop) than the 4x. You can
>also glue the legs into an "L" shape for beter stablity than
>you get with a solid rectangle.
The big advantage for me is cutting the mortise. With two laminated
boards, you can cut half the mortise out of each side with a router
before glue-up rather than using a forsner bit and chisel, and you've
got very little tuning up to do when it's laminated. Never tried the
L-shaped legs, but that makes sense, too.
>All that aside, working with thicker timbers is fun. For
>the individual, that may be the deciding factor.
tim wrote:
>I am mulling over how to make my first woodworking bench, and after
>looking at many sites, and considering cost, I am going to build
>with standard lumber. My questions are as follows:
>
>Is there any reason to stick with laminating 2x4's for the
>legs versus using 4x4 or even better(?) 4x6 stock.
IMHO, YES.
Form a right angle triangle with two (2), 2x4's for each leg.
Very strong and will resist warping.
>I want
>to build a leg vise and I am tempted to use the 4x6 dougfir
>they have at the local Builder's Supply.
Why?
>And while I'm asking can you use this 4x6 or 4x4 stuff as the
>laminated top, or should I stick with glueing up 2x4s?
Make a frame from half lapped 2x4's, then cover with 3/4" MDF followed
by a 1/4", loose fitting hardboard.
Usually cut a triangular piece of 1/2", 4 ply CDX and fit them as
gussets between leg and table top frame.
Makes a very stable arrangement that will support a couple of tons with
no sweat.
Why not take a look at some of the NYW plans for garage work benches.
They have some pretty good ideas.
Think of this bench as your work truck, not your Saturday night Lexus.
HTH
Good luck.
Lew
>>I have debated using plywood or mdf, but I just don't want
>>to do that, although I am sure you all have opinions on that
>>decision.
>>
>>I would really appreciate any suggestions, since the only
>>person around here I can ask is my Dad, and he is the KING
>>of Shortcuts. (Great for many projects, but not this one)
>
>
George Shouse <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> On 12 Aug 2005 13:03:16 -0700, "Jerry" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>>Go a search on "weekend workbench" plans. I built this bench out of
>>kiln dried 2x4's from Home Depot. The legs are laminated 2x4 done in a
>>way that looks like half lap joints. The railes are attached to the
>>ends via nuts/bolts in pocket holes so you can diassemble if so choose.
>>
>>
>>The plans call for a solid core door which is what I used. I added oak
>>trim to the perimeter and drilled 3/4" dog holes around the perimeter.
>>Plans also call for drawers but I needed the extra shelf space and did
>>not do the drawers. You could put any top you wanted included a
>>laminated maple I suppose.
>>
>>I coated with a couple coats of poly. It actually looks and performs
>>quite well.
>>
>>Do a search on "Weekend Workbench Plans".
>
> Search twice - I saw prices from $5 and up - didn't find free -
> yet.
Popular Woodworking had a special issue on benches and toolboxes this
spring, with their plans in it. Maybe $5. Good plans, well presented, as
usual.
Patriarch
Ba r r y wrote:
> You get NO kiln dried construction lumber in California?
Way back when Builders Square was still in operation, they supplied kiln
dried lumber, but I would bet at least 90% of the construction lumber in
SoCal is "wet", but NBD.
Stack it up in the SoCal sun for a couple of weeks and it is bone dry
and hasn't warped.
At least the stuff I buy hasn't warped.
Coming from the Midwest where kiln dried lumber was standard, I asked
about why the SoCal lumber was wet.
The answer I got was that Doug fir could be used wet without problems,
but not Spruce which is why so much of it shows up back east.
YMMV
Lew
Lew
On 12 Aug 2005 13:03:16 -0700, "Jerry" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Go a search on "weekend workbench" plans. I built this bench out of
>kiln dried 2x4's from Home Depot. The legs are laminated 2x4 done in a
>way that looks like half lap joints. The railes are attached to the
>ends via nuts/bolts in pocket holes so you can diassemble if so choose.
>
>
>The plans call for a solid core door which is what I used. I added oak
>trim to the perimeter and drilled 3/4" dog holes around the perimeter.
>Plans also call for drawers but I needed the extra shelf space and did
>not do the drawers. You could put any top you wanted included a
>laminated maple I suppose.
>
>I coated with a couple coats of poly. It actually looks and performs
>quite well.
>
>Do a search on "Weekend Workbench Plans".
Search twice - I saw prices from $5 and up - didn't find free -
yet.
The problem with tubas and forbas is moisture content. It's just not stable
like kiln dried lumber.
My experience has been that 2-bys that have been laying around my inventory
for shop for 6 months or a year behave pretty well. Fresh stuff just moves
all over the place. So wait if you can and be prepared to set aside a few
potato chips for an application where you only need a short board.
My gut says that 4-bys will take forever to really dry out and stay put.
2-bys will still want to twist somewhat, but the lamination will dictate
that only half the component will be pulling one way or the other.
My suggestion would be realy fussy about choosing your stock and buy 2x10's.
and rip them in two. The bigger boards tend to be clearer.
-Steve
"tim" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I am mulling over how to make my first woodworking bench, and after
> looking at many sites, and considering cost, I am going to build
> with standard lumber. My questions are as follows:
>
> Is there any reason to stick with laminating 2x4's for the
> legs versus using 4x4 or even better(?) 4x6 stock. I want
> to build a leg vise and I am tempted to use the 4x6 dougfir
> they have at the local Builder's Supply. Are there any
> ramifications that I should be aware of? I asked them and
> got blank stares and they made me feel like an idiot.
>
> And while I'm asking can you use this 4x6 or 4x4 stuff as the
> laminated top, or should I stick with glueing up 2x4s?
> I have debated using plywood or mdf, but I just don't want
> to do that, although I am sure you all have opinions on that
> decision.
>
> I would really appreciate any suggestions, since the only
> person around here I can ask is my Dad, and he is the KING
> of Shortcuts. (Great for many projects, but not this one)
>
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Not knowing what you have available for cutting & joining sticks, some
> generalities:
>
> For one, splitting and checking is generally more of a problem with
> larger-section-dimension lumber. Really big stuff gets heavy, which
> may be a +. Making clean cuts will be a challenge, unless you have one
> of the real monster circ-saws, and can guide it.
>
> OTOH, dimension lumber from most mills has rounded corners, making for
> surface gaps when gluing. Getting such sticks aligned precisely, and
> clamped evenly for gluing must be a real hoot.
Last weekend I used some old 2x4 I had sitting around to build an
outfeed/router table.
I just ripped about 1/4" off one side so it was flat. Not a big problem.
As for aligning, well, the biscuits do just fine at getting it all to line
up.
You could leave the rounded corners and it wouldn't make a difference in
alignment.
Now for my OTOH, the wood I used was geen when purchased and has been
sitting around for a year or two. Several of the boards were too twisted to
use except in short sections.
j
Jerry wrote:
> Oh and be sure to buy the best "kiln dried" 2x4's you can. If you buy
> green, you'll get the warps mentioned by prior posts.
>
You obviously don't live in California.
All the lumber in California, especially SoCal, is shipped in wet, not
just green, but then again it is Doug Fir, not Spruce which must be kiln
dried which is why it gets shipped to the East coast.
Shipping water gets expensive<G>.
Lew
"George Shouse" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 12 Aug 2005 13:03:16 -0700, "Jerry" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >Go a search on "weekend workbench" plans. I built this bench out of
> >kiln dried 2x4's from Home Depot. The legs are laminated 2x4 done in a
> >way that looks like half lap joints. The railes are attached to the
> >ends via nuts/bolts in pocket holes so you can diassemble if so choose.
> >
> >
> >The plans call for a solid core door which is what I used. I added oak
> >trim to the perimeter and drilled 3/4" dog holes around the perimeter.
> >Plans also call for drawers but I needed the extra shelf space and did
> >not do the drawers. You could put any top you wanted included a
> >laminated maple I suppose.
> >
> >I coated with a couple coats of poly. It actually looks and performs
> >quite well.
> >
> >Do a search on "Weekend Workbench Plans".
>
> Search twice - I saw prices from $5 and up - didn't find free -
Try this:
http://www.freeww.com/workbenches.html
Jay
> yet.
On 12 Aug 2005 10:59:52 -0700, "tim" <[email protected]> wrote:
>I am mulling over how to make my first woodworking bench, and after
>looking at many sites, and considering cost, I am going to build
>with standard lumber. My questions are as follows:
>
>Is there any reason to stick with laminating 2x4's for the
>legs versus using 4x4 or even better(?) 4x6 stock. I want
>to build a leg vise and I am tempted to use the 4x6 dougfir
>they have at the local Builder's Supply. Are there any
>ramifications that I should be aware of? I asked them and
>got blank stares and they made me feel like an idiot.
They'll do that. I made my router table and work bench out of
standard 2"x4" framing studs from the crappiest place in town, and
they have held up just fine. Two caveats to this- first is that I
selected straight lumber from the stack (which took a while) and
second is that the upper and lower frames were bolted to the legs
using lag screws. To keep the lad screws from stripping out where
they bored into end grain, I drilled out 3/4" holes and glued in
hardwood dowels to accept the screws. Everything is still nice and
tight.
>And while I'm asking can you use this 4x6 or 4x4 stuff as the
>laminated top, or should I stick with glueing up 2x4s?
>I have debated using plywood or mdf, but I just don't want
>to do that, although I am sure you all have opinions on that
>decision.
2" x 4" is plenty thick, if you double it up.
>I would really appreciate any suggestions, since the only
>person around here I can ask is my Dad, and he is the KING
>of Shortcuts. (Great for many projects, but not this one)
Only suggestion besides the two mentioned above is that you rip 2" x
4"s to a 3" width using two rip cuts to remove the rounded portions-
especially if you are laminating them for a top. I handplaned my
entire benchtop without doing this, and really wish I had thought of
that beforehand...
Don't worry about the naysayers- most benches are made of framing
lumber, and almost all of them work just fine.