speaking of batteries

pyotr filipivich wrote:
> Speaking of batteries
>
> How does one go about testing to see if a second hand set of Ryobi
> 18v batteries are still "good"?
> These are the green ones, I am not sure right now what type they
> are (Lithium Ion, Ni-Cad, Auto-Cad, Alkaline, or Iron-Pyrite) but I am
> not sure if they need replacing or not. I got them, and the charger,
> and three tools at a thrift shop. "Guarenanteed not to rip, rot, rust
> bust or throw dust - thirty feet or thirty seconds provided the
> customer does not fool with them." {"Did you charge the batteries?"
> Of course I charged the batteries!
> "I told you not to fool with them!"
>
> (OTOH, could be that I was over expecting how much use I could get
> of a pair in the circ-saw cutting oak pallets.)
>
> But anyway, testing procedures for batteries?
>
> Or just bite the wax tadpole and get replacements?
>
> tschus
> pyotr
>
One way to tell the type is the way they run down. NiCads get slower
and slower, Lithium Ion get minimally slower just before they shut
down. My 18V Ryobis state right on the back P-104 Li Ion or P-108 Li
Ion.

--
G Ross

Been through the whole battery rebuild with a rebuilder here in town and tr=
ying it myself. Waste of time. If this is an occasional use tool (which I=
would rate Ryobi as that) then I would do something like this

https://goo.gl/HhFj5D

I have used a few of these, and when you get them from a reputable dealer t=
hey are a great deal.

BTW, using a battery powered circular saw to cut up old pallets falls far b=
eyond the range of that tool. I have two of the Ryobi circular saws and I =
get a lot of use out of them, but continued use of chewing up dirty hardwoo=
d isn't one of them. I can cut up a couple of sheets of plywood, a bunch o=
f 2X4s and have no problems. When I do demo, the saw doesn't have any real=
wattage power to back up hard, continuous work. =20

If this is your first little battery powered circular saw, don't think this=
is in the league of those big 20V things they are selling now for site wor=
k. These are handy, lightweight saws made for convenience, not a day's work=
. You have to keep a sharp, CLEAN blade on the saw, and cut straight lines=
. More importantly, you can't get much more than few cuts with the little =
black batteries that ship with the saw (all the more reason for secondary m=
arket batteries)and really need more amp hours than they provide.

I found the Ryobi 4ah batteries two for $49 a couple of years ago and sprun=
g for them. It was like a completely different saw.

Robert

[email protected] on Thu, 22 Feb 2018 21:51:28 -0500 typed in
rec.woodworking the following:
>On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 18:48:56 -0800, pyotr filipivich
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Speaking of batteries
>>
>> How does one go about testing to see if a second hand set of Ryobi
>>18v batteries are still "good"?
>> These are the green ones, I am not sure right now what type they
>>are (Lithium Ion, Ni-Cad, Auto-Cad, Alkaline, or Iron-Pyrite) but I am
>>not sure if they need replacing or not. I got them, and the charger,
>>and three tools at a thrift shop. "Guarenanteed not to rip, rot, rust
>>bust or throw dust - thirty feet or thirty seconds provided the
>>customer does not fool with them." {"Did you charge the batteries?"
>>Of course I charged the batteries!
>>"I told you not to fool with them!"
>>
>> (OTOH, could be that I was over expecting how much use I could get
>>of a pair in the circ-saw cutting oak pallets.)
>>
>> But anyway, testing procedures for batteries?
>>
>> Or just bite the wax tadpole and get replacements?
>
>Depending on your electrical competence, it may not be all that easy
>to test. What you need to do is somehow measure the current from the
>battery as you run it flat, from fully charged. Multiply the current
>times the time and you get the capacity. It should be somewhere close
>(at least 70-80%) of the advertised capacity. The problem is
>measuring the current.

Ufda. That's a lot of work, in areas I'm not sure I want to take
the time to learn the skills.
Thanks.
--
pyotr filipivich
Next month's Panel: Graft - Boon or blessing?

If they are 18 volt they are most likely Ni-Cad. If more than a year or
two old they will not hold a charge for very long. It depends on how
you want to use the tools. If you use them every day keep them charged.
If only ocasional use anticipate when and charge.
CP

The one tool that I have acquired in the last three years is a 20volt
chain saw. It has given me more pleasure that almost any tool I have. I
have a property in the country that has many oaks that are in continual
need of attention. It works! Also I am in a fire zone [two major fires
in the last 25 year, one across the one lane road in front of the
house, the last within 300 yards]. After the last I went upto a fire
line cut by a Cat and after the masticators were thru and got myself 2
cords of oak firewood. Use the 20 volt to cut 3" to 4" pieces I could
stuff in the back of an Element to bring down to cut with a corded. In
a few cases I cut 6" oak. It could do two cuts on one charge. Love
that tool.
CP

In aprevious post I told of a person in Oshgosh WI who makes a kit for
using 20 volt Li batteries for older 18 volt NiCad tools. A bit pricey.
But probably the same as an 18 volt rebuild. Go to Craigs list Oshkosh
and search for battery adapter or such. Very happy with mine. I have no
connection to this person other than a satisfied customer.
CP

Been there done that. You might try [email protected]. He makes
adaptor kits to use older 18 volt tools with the 20 volt Li. As long a
you still have an old Sears to go with the kit. You could pick a new 20
volt system for batteries.
CP

MOP CAP <[email protected]> on Thu, 22 Feb 2018 19:42:50 -0800 typed in
rec.woodworking the following:
>If they are 18 volt they are most likely Ni-Cad. If more than a year or
>two old they will not hold a charge for very long. It depends on how
>you want to use the tools. If you use them every day keep them charged.
>If only ocasional use anticipate when and charge.

Okay, - time to start saving up the pop cans, then.
--
pyotr filipivich
Next month's Panel: Graft - Boon or blessing?

On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 18:48:56 -0800, pyotr filipivich
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Speaking of batteries
>
> How does one go about testing to see if a second hand set of Ryobi
>18v batteries are still "good"?
> These are the green ones, I am not sure right now what type they
>are (Lithium Ion, Ni-Cad, Auto-Cad, Alkaline, or Iron-Pyrite) but I am
>not sure if they need replacing or not. I got them, and the charger,
>and three tools at a thrift shop. "Guarenanteed not to rip, rot, rust
>bust or throw dust - thirty feet or thirty seconds provided the
>customer does not fool with them." {"Did you charge the batteries?"
>Of course I charged the batteries!
>"I told you not to fool with them!"
>
> (OTOH, could be that I was over expecting how much use I could get
>of a pair in the circ-saw cutting oak pallets.)
>
> But anyway, testing procedures for batteries?
>
> Or just bite the wax tadpole and get replacements?

Depending on your electrical competence, it may not be all that easy
to test. What you need to do is somehow measure the current from the
battery as you run it flat, from fully charged. Multiply the current
times the time and you get the capacity. It should be somewhere close
(at least 70-80%) of the advertised capacity. The problem is
measuring the current.

On Sun, 25 Feb 2018 20:06:55 -0500, J. Clarke
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Sun, 25 Feb 2018 16:57:11 -0800, MOP CAP <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>In aprevious post I told of a person in Oshgosh WI who makes a kit for
>>using 20 volt Li batteries for older 18 volt NiCad tools. A bit pricey.
>>But probably the same as an 18 volt rebuild. Go to Craigs list Oshkosh
>>and search for battery adapter or such. Very happy with mine. I have no
>>connection to this person other than a satisfied customer.
>
>That search doesn't find anything. Perhaps you could post a link?:

I did a web search for something like "battery adapter Oshkosh WI" and
found them. I don't have the exact phrase but it's something like
that.

On Sunday, February 25, 2018 at 10:35:37 AM UTC-5, Brewster wrote:
> On 2/24/18 4:13 PM, pyotr filipivich wrote:
> > Brewster <[email protected]> on Sat, 24 Feb 2018 08:03:14 -0700 typed
> > in rec.woodworking the following:
> >> On 2/22/18 7:48 PM, pyotr filipivich wrote:
> >>> Speaking of batteries
> >>>
> >>> How does one go about testing to see if a second hand set of Ryobi
> >>> 18v batteries are still "good"?
> >>> These are the green ones, I am not sure right now what type they
> >>> are (Lithium Ion, Ni-Cad, Auto-Cad, Alkaline, or Iron-Pyrite) but I am
> >>> not sure if they need replacing or not. I got them, and the charger,
> >>> and three tools at a thrift shop. "Guarenanteed not to rip, rot, rust
> >>> bust or throw dust - thirty feet or thirty seconds provided the
> >>> customer does not fool with them." {"Did you charge the batteries?"
> >>> Of course I charged the batteries!
> >>> "I told you not to fool with them!"
> >>>
> >>> (OTOH, could be that I was over expecting how much use I could get
> >>> of a pair in the circ-saw cutting oak pallets.)
> >>>
> >>> But anyway, testing procedures for batteries?
> >>
> >> NiCads tend to get small shorts internally which causes them to
> >> self-discharge at a faster rate. Fully charge the batteries and measure
> >> the voltage. Wait a day or two and check the voltage again. Individual
> >> cells that are failing will drop the voltage by 1.2 volts each.
> >> If your second reading is lower by 1.2 volts or more, you probably have
> >> dead/dying cells. They can be rebuilt, but the cost savings over new
> >> batteries may not make economical sense.
> >
> > Thanks. If I determine that the batteries are expired, I shall
> > replace them. I lack the time, space and talent to be rebuilding
> > batteries.
> >
>
>
> I have rebuilt battery packs on my own, but a RPITA since the cells are
> really crammed in tight.
>
> For rebuilding, I was referring to shops that do it (based on cell count)
>
> i.e. http://freedombatteryrebuilds.com and others.
>
> I had a set of old Milwaukee 14.4v NiCad packs rebuilt with NMH for
> about 70% of new price (bonus extra power/run time with the chemistry
> change)
>
> -BR

Do you know if the OEM replacements you could have bought also took advantage
of the "chemistry change" or not?

If they did, then the "bonus" was a wash but that 30% savings is definitely
not bad.

On Sun, 25 Feb 2018 08:35:33 -0700, Brewster <[email protected]> wrote:

>On 2/24/18 4:13 PM, pyotr filipivich wrote:
>> Brewster <[email protected]> on Sat, 24 Feb 2018 08:03:14 -0700 typed
>> in rec.woodworking the following:
>>> On 2/22/18 7:48 PM, pyotr filipivich wrote:
>>>> Speaking of batteries
>>>>
>>>> How does one go about testing to see if a second hand set of Ryobi
>>>> 18v batteries are still "good"?
>>>> These are the green ones, I am not sure right now what type they
>>>> are (Lithium Ion, Ni-Cad, Auto-Cad, Alkaline, or Iron-Pyrite) but I am
>>>> not sure if they need replacing or not. I got them, and the charger,
>>>> and three tools at a thrift shop. "Guarenanteed not to rip, rot, rust
>>>> bust or throw dust - thirty feet or thirty seconds provided the
>>>> customer does not fool with them." {"Did you charge the batteries?"
>>>> Of course I charged the batteries!
>>>> "I told you not to fool with them!"
>>>>
>>>> (OTOH, could be that I was over expecting how much use I could get
>>>> of a pair in the circ-saw cutting oak pallets.)
>>>>
>>>> But anyway, testing procedures for batteries?
>>>
>>> NiCads tend to get small shorts internally which causes them to
>>> self-discharge at a faster rate. Fully charge the batteries and measure
>>> the voltage. Wait a day or two and check the voltage again. Individual
>>> cells that are failing will drop the voltage by 1.2 volts each.
>>> If your second reading is lower by 1.2 volts or more, you probably have
>>> dead/dying cells. They can be rebuilt, but the cost savings over new
>>> batteries may not make economical sense.
>>
>> Thanks. If I determine that the batteries are expired, I shall
>> replace them. I lack the time, space and talent to be rebuilding
>> batteries.
>>
>
>
>I have rebuilt battery packs on my own, but a RPITA since the cells are
>really crammed in tight.
>
>For rebuilding, I was referring to shops that do it (based on cell count)
>
>i.e. http://freedombatteryrebuilds.com and others.
>
>I had a set of old Milwaukee 14.4v NiCad packs rebuilt with NMH for
>about 70% of new price (bonus extra power/run time with the chemistry
>change)

I've had NiCd battery packs rebuilt, as well but haven't had good luck
with them. Another six or twelve months, for 70% of the original
price isn't worth the bother. Li batteries changed the whole game.

Brewster <[email protected]> on Sat, 24 Feb 2018 08:03:14 -0700 typed
in rec.woodworking the following:
>On 2/22/18 7:48 PM, pyotr filipivich wrote:
>> Speaking of batteries
>>
>> How does one go about testing to see if a second hand set of Ryobi
>> 18v batteries are still "good"?
>> These are the green ones, I am not sure right now what type they
>> are (Lithium Ion, Ni-Cad, Auto-Cad, Alkaline, or Iron-Pyrite) but I am
>> not sure if they need replacing or not. I got them, and the charger,
>> and three tools at a thrift shop. "Guarenanteed not to rip, rot, rust
>> bust or throw dust - thirty feet or thirty seconds provided the
>> customer does not fool with them." {"Did you charge the batteries?"
>> Of course I charged the batteries!
>> "I told you not to fool with them!"
>>
>> (OTOH, could be that I was over expecting how much use I could get
>> of a pair in the circ-saw cutting oak pallets.)
>>
>> But anyway, testing procedures for batteries?
>
>NiCads tend to get small shorts internally which causes them to
>self-discharge at a faster rate. Fully charge the batteries and measure
>the voltage. Wait a day or two and check the voltage again. Individual
>cells that are failing will drop the voltage by 1.2 volts each.
>If your second reading is lower by 1.2 volts or more, you probably have
>dead/dying cells. They can be rebuilt, but the cost savings over new
>batteries may not make economical sense.

Thanks. If I determine that the batteries are expired, I shall
replace them. I lack the time, space and talent to be rebuilding
batteries.
--
pyotr filipivich
Next month's Panel: Graft - Boon or blessing?

Jack <[email protected]> on Sat, 24 Feb 2018 12:34:16 -0500 typed
in rec.woodworking the following:
>On 2/23/2018 10:53 AM, pyotr filipivich wrote:
>
>>>> (OTOH, could be that I was over expecting how much use I could get
>>>> of a pair in the circ-saw cutting oak pallets.)
>>>>
>>>> But anyway, testing procedures for batteries?
>>>>
>>>> Or just bite the wax tadpole and get replacements?
>
>Bite the tadpole and buy a tailed circ-saw. Buy a decent one too, as
>cutting up oak pallets is going to test the durability.

Got a tailed circ saw. Wondering about the batteries for these.
Tool gloat - chainsaw, circ saw, reciprocating saw, charger and two
batteries for $32. Even if I have to replace the batteries, still a
good deal.
For some value of "good" I'm sure.
--
pyotr filipivich
Next month's Panel: Graft - Boon or blessing?

On 2/22/18 7:48 PM, pyotr filipivich wrote:
> Speaking of batteries
>
> How does one go about testing to see if a second hand set of Ryobi
> 18v batteries are still "good"?
> These are the green ones, I am not sure right now what type they
> are (Lithium Ion, Ni-Cad, Auto-Cad, Alkaline, or Iron-Pyrite) but I am
> not sure if they need replacing or not. I got them, and the charger,
> and three tools at a thrift shop. "Guarenanteed not to rip, rot, rust
> bust or throw dust - thirty feet or thirty seconds provided the
> customer does not fool with them." {"Did you charge the batteries?"
> Of course I charged the batteries!
> "I told you not to fool with them!"
>
> (OTOH, could be that I was over expecting how much use I could get
> of a pair in the circ-saw cutting oak pallets.)
>
> But anyway, testing procedures for batteries?
>
> Or just bite the wax tadpole and get replacements?
>
> tschus
> pyotr
>

NiCads tend to get small shorts internally which causes them to
self-discharge at a faster rate. Fully charge the batteries and measure
the voltage. Wait a day or two and check the voltage again. Individual
cells that are failing will drop the voltage by 1.2 volts each.
If your second reading is lower by 1.2 volts or more, you probably have
dead/dying cells. They can be rebuilt, but the cost savings over new
batteries may not make economical sense.

-BR

On 2/23/2018 10:53 AM, pyotr filipivich wrote:

>>> (OTOH, could be that I was over expecting how much use I could get
>>> of a pair in the circ-saw cutting oak pallets.)
>>>
>>> But anyway, testing procedures for batteries?
>>>
>>> Or just bite the wax tadpole and get replacements?

Bite the tadpole and buy a tailed circ-saw. Buy a decent one too, as
cutting up oak pallets is going to test the durability.

--
Jack
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.
http://jbstein.com

On 2/24/18 4:13 PM, pyotr filipivich wrote:
> Brewster <[email protected]> on Sat, 24 Feb 2018 08:03:14 -0700 typed
> in rec.woodworking the following:
>> On 2/22/18 7:48 PM, pyotr filipivich wrote:
>>> Speaking of batteries
>>>
>>> How does one go about testing to see if a second hand set of Ryobi
>>> 18v batteries are still "good"?
>>> These are the green ones, I am not sure right now what type they
>>> are (Lithium Ion, Ni-Cad, Auto-Cad, Alkaline, or Iron-Pyrite) but I am
>>> not sure if they need replacing or not. I got them, and the charger,
>>> and three tools at a thrift shop. "Guarenanteed not to rip, rot, rust
>>> bust or throw dust - thirty feet or thirty seconds provided the
>>> customer does not fool with them." {"Did you charge the batteries?"
>>> Of course I charged the batteries!
>>> "I told you not to fool with them!"
>>>
>>> (OTOH, could be that I was over expecting how much use I could get
>>> of a pair in the circ-saw cutting oak pallets.)
>>>
>>> But anyway, testing procedures for batteries?
>>
>> NiCads tend to get small shorts internally which causes them to
>> self-discharge at a faster rate. Fully charge the batteries and measure
>> the voltage. Wait a day or two and check the voltage again. Individual
>> cells that are failing will drop the voltage by 1.2 volts each.
>> If your second reading is lower by 1.2 volts or more, you probably have
>> dead/dying cells. They can be rebuilt, but the cost savings over new
>> batteries may not make economical sense.
>
> Thanks. If I determine that the batteries are expired, I shall
> replace them. I lack the time, space and talent to be rebuilding
> batteries.
>


I have rebuilt battery packs on my own, but a RPITA since the cells are
really crammed in tight.

For rebuilding, I was referring to shops that do it (based on cell count)

i.e. http://freedombatteryrebuilds.com and others.

I had a set of old Milwaukee 14.4v NiCad packs rebuilt with NMH for
about 70% of new price (bonus extra power/run time with the chemistry
change)

-BR

On 2/25/2018 10:35 AM, Brewster wrote:

> I have rebuilt battery packs on my own, but a RPITA since the cells are
> really crammed in tight.

I had some cheap Black & Decker 18v tools that had 1300 mAh batteries.
When the batteries died I bought some cheap HF 1500 mAh batteries. Took
them apart and replaced the batteries in the B&D case. The 1500mAh
batteries were a good bit taller than the originals but I discovered the
B&D battery case had a plastic false bottom that when removed, the
taller, more powerful HF batteries fit perfectly. Cost me $12 for the
HF batteries ($16 now) and they work great (well, better than new
anyway). Saved about $50+/per battery pack.

Now I have 2 20 volt lithium craftsman batteries for a saw, sawsall,
circular saw and light combo kit I got from Santa one year. Tools are
great, but one of the batteries died 4 years ago, and nobody fixes
lithium batteries and now Sears doesn't carry them. I reckon if/when
the other battery dies, the tools will be scrap. That sucks because
these tools are really good considering they are Sears.

--
Jack
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.
http://jbstein.com

On 2/25/18 4:18 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Sun, 25 Feb 2018 08:35:33 -0700, Brewster <[email protected]> wrote:
>

>>
>> I have rebuilt battery packs on my own, but a RPITA since the cells are
>> really crammed in tight.
>>
>> For rebuilding, I was referring to shops that do it (based on cell count)
>>
>> i.e. http://freedombatteryrebuilds.com and others.
>>
>> I had a set of old Milwaukee 14.4v NiCad packs rebuilt with NMH for
>> about 70% of new price (bonus extra power/run time with the chemistry
>> change)
>



> I've had NiCd battery packs rebuilt, as well but haven't had good luck
> with them. Another six or twelve months, for 70% of the original
> price isn't worth the bother. Li batteries changed the whole game.
>


It really depends on the quality of the cells used. My rebuilds are
still running fine, I expect to get about the same service life as the
originals.

A LI rebuild would have been nice, but then you need the LI compatible
charger which I don't have. At that point, it would have made more sense
to just get a new drill kit

My first "self" rebuild was a battery pack for a 1990's vintage Makita
drill with a 9.6v NiCad pack.
I bought a HF replacement pack on sale for next to nothing and dutifully
rebuilt the Mikita with the HF cells. It died after maybe three charges.
Turned out, the HF batteries were for a wall-wart style trickle charger
and my 1-hour Makita charger fried them. A lot of "sub" classes under
the NiCad, NMHyd, and LI street names 8^)


The second attempt was with RC car batteries, designed for abuse and
fast charging rates. Worked like a champ, but the cost and effort was a
wash.

=BR

MOP CAP <[email protected]> on Sat, 24 Feb 2018 19:15:03 -0800 typed in
rec.woodworking the following:
>The one tool that I have acquired in the last three years is a 20volt
>chain saw. It has given me more pleasure that almost any tool I have. I
>have a property in the country that has many oaks that are in continual
>need of attention. It works! Also I am in a fire zone [two major fires
>in the last 25 year, one across the one lane road in front of the
>house, the last within 300 yards]. After the last I went upto a fire
>line cut by a Cat and after the masticators were thru and got myself 2
>cords of oak firewood. Use the 20 volt to cut 3" to 4" pieces I could
>stuff in the back of an Element to bring down to cut with a corded. In
>a few cases I cut 6" oak. It could do two cuts on one charge. Love
>that tool.
>CP

So my problems may just be with the kind of wood I'm trying to
cut.

All things considered - still a deal.

thanks

pyotr

--
pyotr filipivich
Next month's Panel: Graft - Boon or blessing?

On Sun, 25 Feb 2018 16:57:11 -0800, MOP CAP <[email protected]> wrote:

>In aprevious post I told of a person in Oshgosh WI who makes a kit for
>using 20 volt Li batteries for older 18 volt NiCad tools. A bit pricey.
>But probably the same as an 18 volt rebuild. Go to Craigs list Oshkosh
>and search for battery adapter or such. Very happy with mine. I have no
>connection to this person other than a satisfied customer.

That search doesn't find anything. Perhaps you could post a link?: